KEKE PALMER: "At 17, I Had a Midlife Crisis”

i've been waiting for this since you interviewed me and made my life a living hell because i was like where is she gonna take this conversation only kiki could put me in these uncomfortable places oh my gosh hey it's jay i don't know what your day's been like but i was just thinking about you for a minute and i hope you're being a little patient with yourself because you deserve it and yeah i'll talk to you soon kiki palma welcome to on purpose jay i'm so happy to talk to you and i just know we're gonna have such a great conversation like i just love it kiki i wanted to start with like you do so much i just talked about it film television podcasting music businesswoman entrepreneur mother when do you feel the most like lauren when i've allowed myself to have uncomfortable feelings ah because i think that that's what i've been working on for a long time and i've been working on that for a long time and i've been working on that for a long time and i've been working on getting back to because being able to do all the stuff i do and you know on the road to success i was trying so hard to just you know uh be the best and you know be in a good mood and be ready and so the part that really got pushed down was like the human part the one that just sometimes is sad and that doesn't feel very strong that doesn't feel very capable so when i'm what i'm learning is the more that i honor the space for that and when i tell people like hey i could probably push it and do this i'm not gonna be able to do it because i'm not gonna be able to but i would rather not that's that's the part of me that has not gotten a lot of air wow so i feel really good when i'm honoring the fact that i might have a larger capacity but i but it's okay if i can't give it out right now yeah does that part ever win or does it lose it's getting better now okay most of my life crazy it's one the the part that just pushes through that's been guiding everything to the point of being disembodied in moments and i think that having my son brought me to a place of presence as kids do and i think that's the part that's been guiding me to the where i started to realize that that maybe that disconnection was happening and so now i'm more active in being like it's okay if you don't have it it's okay if you don't feel like i had something i was supposed to do after this but my day got pushed back and i was late coming here and i was like oh no i said i can't do it you know the old me would have still tried to push through and i don't mean to say the old me but part of me that was habitually thinking that what other people wanted was greater than what i needed for myself that side of me is you know i'm aware of it now and so i can say like look i don't have it and and that makes me feel really truly confident and secure yeah and that's hard to do when you're winning oh my gosh it's hard to do when you're losing because you feel like you have to get going and you've got to get started yeah then it's hard to do when you're winning because you're like oh i've got to keep this going the momentum yeah momentum game that we play with ourselves it can be tough it can be tough but it's so funny how it does that because being good with yourself is actually what's going to make you better for that those things at least that i found but we trick ourselves into thinking that we're not going to be able to do that because we're not going to be by force is how we get everything. And there might be some truth to it. There's a time and a place for everything where it's like, I got to hustle. I got to hustle. But you got to be also like, let me not be so in the hustle that I don't feel when the frequency has changed. And now is the time for rest. And so it's like, you know, sometimes we can step out of the alignment when we, when we so busy thinking that there's one way to get it done. Yeah, no, so well said. And you mentioned that you talked about your son who we got so much of in this adorable AD piece. I was like, oh my gosh, he's so cute. I'm so obsessed with my son. It's too much. He's just the best energy too. Like it just like flies off the screen. But I was thinking about that. And I wanted to ask you, like, what have you learned about yourself since becoming a mom that you feel you didn't know before? Well, I do feel like my son reflects qualities in me that are the most human before we get into like our adaptive way as human beings do. We all do that. We adapt for the room, for who we're around, for what we want and, you know, all those kinds of things. So I get to see a human before they become aware of how they relate to others can impact them or how others see them might impact them. So I've learned that I'm very demanding. He's really demanding. He's demanding. He has clear boundaries, but he's also really loving and he's polite, but he's like, what are you doing here? And I don't have time for that. And so watching him in his like truth, it has really given me so much courage. So you're getting self-awareness. I'm getting self-awareness. I'm like, so that's what I was like before I decided that I cared about folks. You know what I mean? And so I love seeing those. And then, like I said, the presence piece, because kids make you be, you cannot be somewhere. I mean, you could, but it's like, it's hard to go to that other place when you have this being in front of you that's looking and learning and again, reflecting so much of you back that you start noticing space and time is starting to stretch in a way that it hasn't before. It's crazy when you have one, you realize that you're not alone. And I think that's what we've always said is true. Children are really the future. They're the most greatest gifts. They are so bright eyed and their spirit is so open and pure and it can't help, but affect you. This episode is presented by State Farm. We spend so much energy becoming the best version of ourselves, building better habits, showing up more fully, embracing mindfulness. But sometimes the most purposeful thing you can do is just handle the thing you've been putting off. If getting your insurance sorted has been living on that list, State Farm is there to help you choose the coverage that's right for you. Go online at statefarm.com or use the easily accessible app to get help from one of their over 19,000 local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. What does he demand? And what are the boundaries that he sets? So his boundaries, he's really boundaried about like touch. He's like, he wants his space. I need space. Well, when you're trying to hug him. When I'm trying to hug him, I try to kiss him. No, no more kisses. That's too much. He'll tell me he's three. Oh, he'll be open to it. But then when it's like, it's my mommy, no more kissing. That's too much kissing. And I have, I say, okay, I understand. I respect that. You know, he'll be like, in terms of demanding, he'll be like, I want my lechita. You know, like I want my milk. He's like, I'm very hungry. I want food. Or he was like, absolutely not. Don't try to feed me anything. Like he's really like, he will tell you the more words that he has, the more things that he says. He'll say things like, I would like to watch really good debater, like a really good, like he'll try to pick around. So he'll be like, can I do this? And you'd be like, no, what about this? And he'd be like, okay, no. Well, what about that? You'll say yes. Okay. Phew. You know, he says like, phew, very expressive. He's actually very animated. Don't know where he gets that from. It's the cutest. So it's like, it's so funny to just see someone's personality developing. And as a mom, as a parent in general, you want to be able to guide them, but you don't want to stop them from discovering something. And I think that's who they are in their own way. You don't want to be so much of a, of a curator that you impede their ability to come into their own character. My son has such a great sense of power within self. And as much as I want him to be respectful and kind and all that kind of stuff, it's a constant balancing act because I don't want him to lose his strength and his ability to, especially as a young man, I feel like he's getting to live my male dreams. So I want him to know that he has power and influence and obviously using it in the right way. And it's like he's only three years old, but these are the things that you're thinking about already because you want to just make sure you set them up correctly. It sounds like you figured it out. Oh, my gosh. It sounds like you got it down. There's so much more to come. Yeah, yeah. That potty training got me in a chokehold. Damn, it's hard. Really? Walk me through it. Well, they don't know the comfortability of the toilet. Like for us adults, we can sit on the toilet for a long time on our phones. We have a different relationship to it. As him, he has the relationship where I use the bathroom, this is on my body, my diaper. I get to keep doing what I'm doing. I never have to stop and go to the bathroom. He doesn't get the whole stopping what you're doing and going to the bathroom and then sitting on the toilet and then the toilet being the place where it goes. So the conversation and the comfortability you have to get him with to understand like, no, the toilet is safe. The toilet is comforting. The toilet is your space. The bathroom is cool. You get to have a private moment. And so it's just like getting that, getting his mind wrapped around it. And it's not easy. And I don't have the same parts as him. Like he looks at me and he's like, who chopped it off? And I'm like, you know, it's like, I'm like, I can't, you know, I'm not a guy. So that is like very funny, you know. That's hilarious. He's like, somebody took hers away. I'm spooked. Oh, my gosh. For three, that is a lot of personality for three. Oh, my gosh. Such personality. What have you learned about your parents after becoming a parent? I've had my times of being very hard on my parents, especially like in my early 20s. Never as hard as that would have made me not hold space for them because we've always been really close. Even in our times where we weren't as close day to day talking or being around each other when I was kind of being in my more like, I need to be independent bag. I still think I was always very like, I understand my parents. I hold space for them. I have compassion for the things they did right and things they didn't do right. But I think that I understand it much more embodied now. Before, I was trying to be on my Jay Shetty. I was just trying to be like. You know, I'm being mindful and I'm choosing the right path. But there's like doing that mentally. And then there's like actually feeling it really. And so I think I was saying that for a long time without actually feeling it. And I think having my son and obviously many things, you know, getting older, you know, allowed me to really understand from their perspective of what that challenge may have been like to just raise a child, let alone a child that's in the public eye that many people are around. And I think that's a big part of it. And you're trying to keep a hold, but you want you you're putting them here to have opportunity to become more. But then there's also. this whole idea that you become not enough for their world or the assumed idea that you're not enough for their world and so I just I think that my parents have a lot of courage I realized that they are really brave people and they're so they they also love me enough to be that courageous to actually open doors for me to flourish like they pretty much were watching me go down the yellow brick road and they had their ideas of what the wizard was but they still held hope and faith for me and I was able to come back and give them something too in the end of it all or as we continue to grow together in this new framework but it was really hard you know they were there like my my you know my scarecrow and tin man and cowardly lion and you know we're two we've been together on this journey so to see how they've been able to have the strength to allow me to become I can only hope to be that brave with my child have you told them that no my mom's heard it just now I guess you prompted this question I never have have articulated it or said it because I never really had the opportunity to but yeah that's how I feel I think that she's really brave and my dad is really brave and I'm really grateful that they weren't afraid to let me be me wow I can tell that you you're like you're like really living in it for a second yeah I am you know it takes so much time for I think the things that we tell ourselves to hit us and I think I spend a lot of time especially in my early my late teens early 20s really getting into like the concepts around mindfulness I learned watching YouTube videos online that the only thing that separated me from the people that I admired was they thought differently and so I focused on like what do people that are successful do what does it they put into their mind how do they talk to themselves and so I started like practicing those things you know going to a trip to Sedona you know having somebody beat on my chest with Reiki at 19 you know going on this excursion where I'm in silence you know I've tried to put my those things in my life but it didn't really hit me yeah you know I was just like doing them and I was believing I remember one of my favorite quotes I got it tattooed is Aristotle we are what we repeatedly do excellence then isn't an act but a habit and that's how it started started as an act not a fake one but me just trying to figure out how to get to this place where it feels real and then when you arrive you're like oh my gosh I'm like oh my gosh I'm there it's like it's I remember talking to Raven Simone and she was like 30s are the other is a decade of revelations like and obviously obviously Jesus you know it's not unique but it's like when she put it like that it was like okay and then as I've been in my decade of the 30s there have been so many revelations that it's like what is coming next and this year I turned 33 so it's like what is about to happen you know what I mean come on Jesus here you know what is about to be reborn you know what's going to happen and it's been remarkable man because the seeds that I sold even though I didn't know when it was going to really hit me when it was going to really feel true I still planted those seeds I really did and I watered them sometimes every day sometimes once a month sometimes every couple of weeks you know and then I come back and I do it more consistently but I kept watering and watering and watering and I now I'm seeing the growth from those seeds that I sold or that I planted you know yeah what what even took you on that journey why did you want to go on that path of understanding your thoughts and mindfulness and even going on that silent journey like I get that that wasn't even your path but why did you even want to go on that path what were you looking for what was what was life like that you were asking those bigger questions so I think what started me to get into these kinds of conversations was deep depression I suffered from like a lot of depression and anxiety a lot of feigning spells and panic attacks and stuff like that like I would go sometimes and like my period would disappear because I would be so stressed and this started when I was like 12. And I would always journal my journals I think one of my earliest rituals and practices Brandy gave me my first journal she said you're going to need this and she was really right because it really allowed for me to get a lot of things out I think it saved my life in a lot of ways being able to come back to myself and remember who I am while dealing with so much of my responsibilities and just the projections of being in front of the camera and so I would journal a lot and I just started to really understand that I was dealing with stuff and this is why I have such a I really do love the internet and technology in a lot of ways because it saved me I remember I started searching up words and searching up feelings and the way that I felt about certain things and then different philosophers will come up you know or different people that would say certain things I would put in a word on this website called think exist.com and I found out words about stress then I found about that what I was feeling was anxiety and these are like were small things to me you know in my my mind now I know them very regularly in my dialogue but at the beginning I didn't know any of those things I thought something was wrong with me and then I started to realize that these were concepts and things that people have been talking about for thousands of years like the fact that I was asking these questions it wasn't actually crazy it was kind of correct you know what I mean and I should continue to ask these questions and so that's when I started to realize that there was other stuff out there and that how I was feeling even if it wasn't something that was common in my industry or something that we were talking about entertainment there was a space for it and so through that you obviously learned about food and you learned about music and you learned about music and you learned about music and you learned about like all these different concepts of you know monks and people going on retreats and the concept of all this type of stuff you know I started this looking at that when I was probably like 14 15 and then by the time that I was 18 19 I was like I want to see these and have these experiences for myself because my identity was constantly being broken down and attacked after I was 17 my tv show true jackson vp went off of the air it was like I would liken it to a 60 year or being removed from his top position as a ceo at 17 that's how I felt I felt like I was having a midlife midlife crisis like it was like whoa like the money is different my ability to help my family is different you know I don't know who I am as an adult let alone as an entertainer as a as an as now a grown woman so it was like there was a lot happening and I knew that if I was going to survive it that I was going to have to get my mind right I just knew that my and I would watch videos like will smith will smith at this time too with all the people that I knew that I was going to have to always be talking about this kind of thing yeah he was like those old interviews are like yeah they're insane he was always talking about get your mind right get your mind right and so it's like I was I was like I want to be like well you know I want to be able to be I robot I want to be able to be the hero of my life and I took it to heart man I took it so to heart and so I started getting physical I started I remember I got a uh trainer when I was like 18 19 I was like I was on the will smith program you know what I mean I was getting my mind I was in therapy I was on that therapy getting my body right getting my mind right and it just became a part of the things I was into it became a part of my hobbies it became a part of my personality it was like doing my work and my job and then trying to be on some you know wellness nourishment kick and my family was like okay this is crazy you know but that's who I've been in my family you know and that's became a part of my life and and so yeah and from then that just kept being something that I always was chipping away at caring about investing in you know that's incredible I didn't know that I love for everyone who's listening to know that like how much would you dedicate and say because of that work I did when I was 18 when I was coming out of a dark period when I went through this midlife crisis at 17 years old and I refocused myself how much of your success today would you owe to that part I mean I want to be dramatic but I would probably say everything and I would say not just the success of me as an entertainer the success of me surviving being an entertainer I remember watching the Eddie Murphy documentary and Dave Chappelle said not only is Eddie Murphy successful but he survived being Eddie Murphy. Being a successful person it's a great accomplishment but it comes with a lot of things it comes with a lot of stuff what we know on the road to success is tough I think you said something similar to this earlier on the road to success is tough because it's tough and then when you get there the concept of sustaining it what does it look like to evolve it how does it look like to deal with what people expect from you because you are so successful so yeah I think that be you know people say oh you were childhood you know they survived all this kind of stuff like those are the practices that you need to be successful and you need to be successful and you need to be successful and you need to be successful and you need to be successful and you need to be successful you know and when I started my company key tv network that was focused on helping you with your business your brand creating the practice of being able to actually do stuff I could not leave out an opportunity to build something else practiced by Palmer which is these are the practices that helped me be able to be the person that I am in business you have to be good in your mind you have to know who you are and there's no way to stay in touch with you who you are in this world without having some type of forms of rituals you know what I mean that's why a lot of people like I'm not religious or I'm not at the base level it's a ritual it's a it's something that you can go to you know I'm saying even though I grew up catholic I have not been consistently to a catholic church in years but those rituals lord not lay me down to sleep I pray the lord my soul to keep you know it grounds you it's a convert at the baseline of what it is if you take away anything that you think about religion it's a conversation with yourself it's a conversation with the universe hey you know this is what's on my mind you need to get that stuff out that's how we know what's going on and that's how we know what's going on inside it's the journaling spending moments of silence and seeing what comes up into your mind and you know it don't have to be quiet I remember when somebody first told me that mindfulness isn't just your mind being quiet it's actually you watching your mind be not quiet and actually just sitting back and be like now that was interesting I'm gonna let you rock you know what I mean like like being in that space like so for me it's like that is so important to go side by side to me you are not a successful person you are not a successful person you are not a if you can't be with yourself if you can't know who you are outside of your achievements and I just I really was afraid of I didn't didn't want to be lost and I think it was also scary the feeling of having all so many things stripped from me at that age I saw like I've got to always be okay if the money not there if the projects ain't there if the people don't care I gotta be okay because this could take me for a tailspin if you ever open up a church I'm there I'm telling you right now yeah I'm like I want to come to your monastery I've been going to the wrong thing this is like I'm like I'm in stretch right now this is amazing come on no but it's as i'm listening to you i'm like wow it's it's so fascinating hearing someone what i love about this is i feel like everyone at their point in life comes to recognize the value of this work whatever you call it whether it's religion spirituality therapy coaching work the work everyone comes to it in their own way and when i hear people's stories about how they found it it's never the same it's totally unique it's also someone from such a different background and walk of life like i found it at the same age as you did but i found it in a completely different way and it was a completely different whirlwind and experience that i was having but the fact that we both have so many things in common even though we come from totally different i would say well i really related to your story when we talked on the show even though i didn't go necessarily specifically in that path i still have you know done entertainment work i love it that much that i could see that for myself so i'm like i love your life because it's like you get to do that every single you get to talk about stuff that i think is so meaningful i mean i'm not trying to say entertainment's not meaningful because it everything plays a part sometimes you want to lose yourself in a project sometimes storytelling is the only way you can understand something so those things are absolutely useful but what i love is just the opportunity to also bring it back to the attention to that because as human beings it's really scary just don't think we talk about it enough we don't know why we're here we don't we don't know if we're like a cell microbiome in some big giant's life that lives on another planet like we don't know some sort of experiment why you know what i mean we don't these are the things that go into your mind and obviously there are ways that there are things that people do believe about that but at the base line of it is it can feel really lonely it can feel really scary you don't know if you should try to achieve something and be quote-unquote successful or just be over there in a village by a lake with your family and do nothing and just appreciate the opportunity of being all of us are trying to figure it out and so i love when we can talk about that because it's like that's the real stuff that's that's the stuff that sometimes can drive you crazy or make you a narcissist as they say because you just want to feel like you matter you know at the core of that is just i want to matter i want to know that i mattered and that my life meant something and that's something that any of us can relate to so it brings me great joy because it's always in my mind did you find that a lot of the people around you as you were coming up as a child star were struggling with that as well yes most of them were turning to different things to help them and i felt like my parents were overprotective of me then and i felt like i was overprotective of them and i felt like i was overprotective of them i felt very alone and i felt like all i had was my journal um and that i didn't have anybody that i could talk to and i had one friend who just who passed away uh named brandon yeah he was my first boyfriend and we passed away recently sick of selenemia only 34 years old and he was my friend that i would talk to a lot and i had my friend taylor parks like i had very few friends that i didn't get to see often and my journal you know i mean thanks to myspace i was able to talk to them tom i'll always love you i will always love you okay so i it was very you know i had a couple of people but i felt very alone dealing with things that i and i didn't have anybody to relate to because i didn't have a lot of friends in the industry the ones that were were it wasn't the same you know what i mean gravity and a lot of kids my age i could see now like when i had conversations with people like demi i wish that i did talk to them i think i also felt very isolated being a lot of times the only black and my experience with being the only black in my school back in illinois was like stay in your lane girl you know what i mean and so i was the star of my own show and i never was like putting my head down but i kind of was like i don't know if i'm really what we really talking about like i really didn't know so i was just like showed up hey we polite we talked but we weren't really necessarily getting into it because we didn't have the language that we have now like there was no words for microaggressions there was no words for you know what that felt like any of those nuances and so but when i see now i see that we all really was dealing with a lot of different you know in our own way but a lot of the same things and i wish that we all could have talked but there was no space for that you know so a lot of times you know people were sex or drugs or whatever it might have been for them to be able to cope and honestly for me i was a really an internet kid i went to the internet and i still be on there you know what i mean you know so it's like i was i was the kid that was you found the good side of the internet though man it was i mean we had some time you know those early days with a wild wild west but i really do feel grateful to have experienced myspace i really found some really genuine you're giving some big shots honestly because it was the place where i just i just was coding you know what i mean i was meeting friends and learning about the space i was having so much fun being able to express myself on my small corner and it was private right because this is before twitter this is before you know entertainers being online this is like back in the day me and any of the friends that i had or i should say peers colleagues that i had on disney and nickelodeon we had private pages like our names would be like fanny fanny tutu you know what i mean because we're like trying to be like all incognito you know what i mean so it was like before all that time and it was the one place that i felt like i could express so that was a saving grace for me what's it like now what are the rituals now i thought you might say with the internet oh no we'll go there later maybe maybe we'll see actually let's go back a step when you were 18 and you're looking forward and you're like god i gotta learn all these things and i'm gonna learn the mindset i'm watching the will smith video and whatever else it may be did you ever think you would find the answer or did you feel scared that i actually did believe i really did believe i didn't know when though so i had to really have a lot of patience but i did believe i believe that if i keep i why why would that not happen if i don't keep if i keep chipping away it's like that picture that goes viral every two years where the guy's like chipping away and he turns around and he was already he was just there i really believe that like there's no way if i keep chipping away that i won't get to wherever i'm trying to be i really truly believe that and so even though it will be hard and sometimes and then you see small small things like things that that stuck you know what i mean like things that were like oh i went from working out every now and then to now it's a part of my every single day or you know i went to you know only going for a walk x amount of times a year now i'm doing them x you know i'm doing a thousand steps you know whatever it is i started to see those changes but my attitude is i think a lot of times you think you're gonna have a new mind but my mind is actually just so much more compassionate the new mind was compassion for myself to be able to grow like i realized that it was not like a new person that would be but that it would be like it would just be a version of me that supports the person i've always been you know what i mean and giving myself a safer place to land and being okay when things don't go right and knowing that i can get right back up again instead of thinking that oh i messed up on monday i guess i don't get another chance till friday it's like why would that be the case you still have the opportunity in the next couple of hours even to decide to have a better mood so i think that's the cool thing that i've discovered when i think about me and my you know 18 and those early teen years of getting into awareness of myself with intention it's like wow like i didn't become a new person i just started being nicer and more loving and supportive of the person that i've always been and because of that i've bloomed you know what i mean that is so good that is so good no because i think that's we constantly convince ourselves that you're going to become a new person that you've got to become a new person that you've got to become a new version of yourself and you're so right that it's actually just seeing the version that already is there yes that exists that lives that breeds that has all the skills the potential the the tools the mindset and and being present for that version and being compassionate because if you're always telling yourself you have to be someone else to be successful well that just sucks you're just being so mean to you you know bernie brown speaks a lot about that kind of thing with the shame piece and it's so interesting how that can show up in your life and you just you don't think that that's what you're doing but you are i think i used to feel so much shame or guilt around my large capacity so i would constantly outsource it and then i'd be so sad when i got nothing back because it was like that the capacity that abundance it actually should be inward and i shouldn't feel guilty that i can pull myself up or you know decide to go out there for my goals or you know instead of always feeling like it's my job to make other people feel great about themselves because they they don't have that energy well what would happen if i you know i gave that out when i came out of it and i was like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry and when i felt like doing it but i gave it back to myself yeah and it's like damn yeah i needed this and when now i see how i feel when i'm actually giving what i've been giving out to me yeah yeah you know and we feel selfish when you first do it you do right and i don't it's a guilt it's a shame it's a shame around seeing something having insight around something feeling something knowing something for whatever reason i don't know what that is but as human beings the moment that we feel that we have a lot it just so weird i don't know what that does but you know yeah i feel that that that i've had to deal with that that i felt shame since i was a little kid being able to be happy even you know and those are like priceless things but i think i felt guilt about it that i was able to be so happy even when we was living in poverty and nothing was good was going on i felt like i could find a reason to have joy i could get out on the floor and dance and be you know i always felt like that that was like a superpower for me and i felt like i'm guilty about that because everybody else can't be happy now it's my job to make everybody you know and it's like that's different it's a different feeling of giving because you want to and then giving because you feel that people need you to yeah you're like guilty giving from a place of guilt and shame for having joy as opposed, you know, that can, that can really distort the gift. Yeah. When you feel you're responsible for other people's emotions, that just sends you down the wrong path. Whereas when you feel you're on your path and you can overflow and give people the love that they deserve and need, that's a totally different thing. And it's such a fine line for people with big capacity, especially because sometimes just your presence. I can relate to everything you're saying right now, you know, because you get, and that's your work. And that's just, I remember one time I was talking to, and I'm sure I would love to hear if you have a version of this. One of my, um, teachers, one of the people first that were mentoring me on this past was a makeup artist. And she introduced me to another kind of master yogi type of person. And, but I can only call him at a certain amount of time. He was only available till a certain amount of time. And if you didn't catch him, you didn't catch him. And you also cannot call him after this time. And so I would talk to this man every now and then, then one time I called this man and literally like the time was like 8 PM. I called this man at 8 0 1. He answered the phone. Why would you call me? It sounded almost like we was in beyond belief, active fishing, and he was going to disappear after this. It was like so urgent. He was like, why would you call me? And I was like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I have never been able to contact that man again. No, I have never been able to reach him again. Never have. It's like gone. It's like gone in the wind. Like it's like he's gone. And I say that to say, like, I really respected that he had clear boundaries. He had a large capacity. Millions of people probably called that man every day to tell him about something, to talk to him about a new path. But he had very clear boundaries to the point where he said, you didn't follow and you can't be involved because I have a lot to give and I have to protect it so that I can keep giving it to its full capacity. So that made me think with you, I'm sure that you have some. You're friends. That's calling you. That's telling you, do you have something that you try to let them know? Like, I'm not open for business with this right now. Well, I have a rule that I don't give friends advice because I just want to be a friend. Well, guess what? We're not friends. We're not friends. All right. We're not friends, so I'm going to call you. Yeah, you can call me. Yeah, we're not friends. Because I used to feel like when we'd be just hanging out and someone's talking about their problems, I don't like giving unsolicited advice. That's first of all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like no one needs unsolicited advice. No one needs unsolicited advice. So that's first of all. I don't give that. But what I didn't like was like friends would be just talking about their problems and I'm like, oh, Jay, tell us what to do. And then no one's going to follow up and listen to it because they're your friend. Exactly. So they're not going to take it seriously either. So I'm like, look, I'm just going to hang. We're just going to, you know, talk about soccer or something, talk about the basketball. Like, let's just be friends. And it's safer that way. And then when someone's coming to you, asking you for advice, truly locking in, truly saying, hey, I'm taking this really seriously. I'm not asking the group chat. I'm coming to you because I want your help and support. I'm locked in. I'm there to help, of course. But that was my boundary setting where it was like, if we're committed to each other, that you want to do the work and I'm going to help you, then I'm in. But if we're just giving free advice and hanging out, that's not going to help anyone because we're all going to feel spent. But I mean, I should do the 801 thing. That's what I should do. That motherfucking, I've tried to get back to him for years. He was like, you're done. But it's so important because I feel like we find ourselves doing that too. Like I can at least say for myself where it's like when I say, take a step back, like everything that I was trying to tell others or support others on, even if they ask, even if we were just having a conversation and I accidentally spilled extra over, those were things that I needed. And so I've really been in a season of restraint. Even if somebody asks me, I'm not telling them what to do or tell them. I'm just being a listening ear and allowing my presence to at least just be a bouncing board, which is so funny because that's what we always say a good therapist is anyway. Like, you know what I mean? A good person that you actually are going to for help. Generally pushes you toward the answers that you have yourself. So it's so funny how you can be thinking that, you know, it's your job, it's your duty. And it's like, actually your best thing is to just be there, to listen and to reflect. And so in my season of restraint, I feel like, hey, I'm getting so much of the things that I thought that other people needed from me. I'm actually realizing how much better off I am by having my relationships reflect information to me. And instead of thinking I'm supposed to share it, but actually like leaning into the intuition myself, seeing what reality reveals to me, and then also taking what I learn or what I'm seeing reflected in the relationship and actually turning it back into myself and say, well, what's my relationship to this? If I think that that's what's happening with this person, is that showing up in my life? Instead of thinking I'm supposed to tell the person something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We feel better when other people are doing worse. And obligated. And obligated in some way to be like, by the way, Virgo is good for some by the way ass shit. I'm a Virgo. I'm a Virgo. We can be really, if we're not healed, we can be actually. What's your birthday? August 26th. Oh, I'm 6th of September. That's crazy. We can literally be by the way. I had to really control that. I had to rein it in. Me too. By the way, Aries, you're not, you're not free. Oh, really? Why are you calling out Aries? Aries love to be like, actually. What's Leo? Leo is a Leo rising, a Taurus moon, and a Pisces sun. He's not an actually person. He's actually like, actually your ass. Leo is like T and Tamara. I got my own mind. I do my own style at my own time. He is so unbothered. Oh my gosh. Well, they say Pisces are perfect opposites of Virgos. Oh, interesting. My sister's a Pisces. Very let it flow, very let it go. Very, my son is so present and so like, he cool, you know? Yeah. Who gave you these blue eyes? They are remarkable. Complete anomaly in my family. No one has them. Wow. They're just awesome. No one has them. I got really lucky. I grew up with jokes about how my mom had an affair with the milkman. Oh my gosh. It's giving Pitbull. Pitbull got those eyes too. Does he? Does he? Yeah, he got blue eyes. I never noticed them on Pitbull. Oh, that's so funny. Mr. Worldwide. I never knew that. Wow, that's funny. Yeah, no, complete anomaly. You're so like, when you walk into a room, you're a such a force. Oh my gosh. You're just such an energy, a spark, like whether it's a big room, a small room like this, whatever it is. How would Lauren walk into a room? Well, she would probably walk in and not feel like she had to make people feel comfortable about it. See, I think that I always knew that the energy existed, but because it would make people feel some type of way, and I learned this very early on when I started going to private school because the teachers were like, stay in your line. The energy was clear that for whatever reason, however I was perceived on the outside, the power that I had within was not allowed. And so I just I learned not to silence the power, but to make it more palatable and make it a little bit easier for you to get into. And that's when my that's when those skills sets, you know, of me being able to regulate a space or be able to translate who I am, whether through code switching or charm or whatever it could be called. That was me trying to create safety for myself. And it was the best way that I knew how to have to create safety. And then there are things that they are part of me, you know, they're who I am. But now I don't always feel like, you know, or I'm at least better about where I choose to go. If a place requires me to do that, to be safe, because ultimately, that's where it came from. It came from a place of feeling unsafe, showing up, being seen as powerful, being felt as powerful power that I didn't even know that I had, and trying to figure out how to make sure that it was hands up, don't shoot, basically, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, as a black, young black person, and as a young black person. black woman. And so I was just me managing the fear that that would put into others. Did you have experiences like that, that felt very, very unsafe? Oh, my gosh, yes, all the time. Whether it was with, you know, misogyny, and then also racially, when people feel like you are challenging the status quo in some regard. Also, I saw it in history. I remember having a conversation with somebody, you know, and I was thinking about like Martin Luther King, you know what I mean? And it was like, that's a fear that black people really genuinely feel anybody that is a person of color, or dealing or from a particular group that decides to stand up. A lot of times they've been murdered. You know, they've been attacked, caring about my community, being passionate. You can't be Michael from good times and actually live long. That's what you've seen the pattern to be. And so yeah, very young, knowing that I had impact doing movies like Akilah and the Bee, my community saying we got became kind of afraid at a certain age where it's like, well, I don't want nobody to take my ass out. You know what I'm saying? I want nobody to be afraid of me, you know, or think I'm going to do, you know what I mean? And I remember after I did one of the marchings that we were dealing with, and I say one of the marchings because there's so many that it gets to the point where it's like, you know, right after George Floyd died, I was like, something had come over me. And I was had a moment with the National Guard that people filmed. And I remember being really, really scared. But I think that that marked like a moment in my life where I maybe was trying to come out of that fear, because I was spooked that like, I remember calling my mom, like, they're probably going to get me for this. So I'm going to be I was really spooked that people are going to get me for just standing up for my community in this way. And it was really scary to me. But something had just come over me in that moment. And it was it was during COVID. And everything was so and I felt just so like, I just was like, I, I just can't believe this. You know, I was just so unhappy. And just so but I didn't want that to make me silent. And then I've been, it was just so much feelings that I had to do that. And then I but I was a little bit scared. But I feel like it was the marking of me kind of shedding some of that fear. And also like being able to understand and articulate some of these things. But you're constantly trying to figure out how to manage these things. From whoever you are, whatever background, whatever you believe in, you know, we're all dealing with some challenges. And I remember I would have these experiences like going to Harvard and Harvard would be doing a thing on me and they would be talking to me about power and I would be trying to figure out like, why am I the case study? You know, so it took me many years to understand what I was holding, how it was affecting people and why it was such a thing that I had to manage all the time and then to be at peace with that. Yeah, it's amazing how we develop all these skills and tools in order to feel safe. And then they become the very things that make us feel unsafe because we get so disconnected from who we are deep down. It's so fascinating, isn't it? You ate that. You ate that. It's like a protective tool became too good. Yeah, it's like how your protective tool suffocates you, which is like a fascinating idea when you think about it. And we all do that as kids. For me, like watching my parents argue, watching my parents behave in the way. they did, I was picking up cues and I can walk into a room and I know every energetic field that is going on in a room, in any room. I can listen to each corner. I know what's happening over there and I can be fully present over here because I had to. I didn't have a choice. And I love that skill. Yeah. I love that skill. I love that tool. And at the same time, it can take away from being able to flow and have human experience. And so you have to be aware of it. So you almost have to be aware of the tools that you built to protect and make sure they don't suffocate you. What have you done to create those spaces where these incredible tools you have that you use so wisely, you've learned how to be really effective with them. And at the same time, they are true to you. They're not, they're not inauthentic, but then how have you allowed yourself to put the sword and shield down sometimes and breathe? Like, what does that look like? Well, I think when I did my TED talk, that was a big moment of reclamation. Thank you so much. I want to, I want you to know my whole team watched it and everyone was like raving about it. So just so you know. Thank you so much. That was a big wreck moment of reclamation for me, parasocially. I think in my personal life, you know, like I said, my practices holding space for myself over time have allowed me to let those things have those moments of breath, you know, but parasocially, um, that was an opportunity to really also speak to my audience about that differentiation. My, uh, nuance outside of just being fun and joyful and energetic is I have feelings. I'm a human being. I've had my, my experience in this and being, coming, this has been, has cost me a lot of things. My nervous system is readjusting from all these experiences that I've had and that it's okay to be nuanced and complex and that I don't want to be the poster child for hyper-functioning if it doesn't sit alongside this truth. That was like a big, big moment for me in my life. Now it's, everything is integrated because it was always fragmented from my private life and my professional life. And so that was a big moment of integration in a major way. Again, being able to speak the truth, being able to speak truth to power, that is the greatest liberator of that voice that's inside that had to rest is to actually speak truth on the things that I experienced and what it cost me and how I had to learn this stuff and that adaptive intelligence and what performance is and what is authenticity that lives inside of that. Like these are conversations that I felt like I wasn't allowed to have, or I couldn't have. And then a lot of times in the early days, people didn't want to have, did nobody care, give a damn about this. You know, they didn't want it to, you had to just be ready to go. Totally. Like, you know, you want to be just, Hey, it's too much. So it's like, if you talk, if I can have the conversation, then I can have the conversation. So I'll also say time. And that's why I've taken care of yourself. I'm so happy that I did those things so that when the world also was arriving at these times that I could share that, that I could share this truth because people could be open and ready to hear it. And so I felt like that was also true for my generation, how I came up in this industry and what, you know, what it took for me to get also waiting for spaces like this to exist. I feel like, you know, I mean, obviously podcasting exists back then, but it was called talk radio. And you weren't having conversations like this. Also, we've all caught up to our period. So it's like a collective shift that has gone on that I get to be a part of. No, for sure. And you were ahead of it. You were doing it when it wasn't trendy. So now that it's kind of come into vogue. Yeah. Which is crazy. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Health AI. We've got to talk about those panicked internet searches. You know, the ones that I'm talking about when something about your body just doesn't seem right. So you search and search and scroll and scroll and trying to figure out your body by endlessly looking for answers. Thankfully, now there's Amazon Health AI. It can connect your symptoms with your medical history, and it can even get you care 24 seven. So call off the search. Amazon Health AI is here. Healthcare just got less painful. When you were talking about your childhood, I remember having what now I know are panic attacks or anxiety attacks. And I'd go to the doctor, the doctor would wire me up with this like crazy technology, checking my heart rate, checking my heartbeats. And then 24 hours I'd have to wear it at school. It would look really weird. And then the next day I'd go back and be like, there's nothing wrong with him. And I'm like, mom, there's something wrong with me. Like I'm having an experience and we just didn't have language for it. And so what you're saying about language is huge, but vocabulary, emotional vocabulary is just so huge. And I feel like people being exposed to ideas and words is so important. I mean, I didn't even realize that how the recursive like kind of like boom that is when I was thinking about the fact that I did Akilah and the Bee, this movie that again, it's inspiring in many different ways. But for me, it became re-inspiring because it's like, yes, a little girl having language to express how she feels. That's crazy. That is powerful because words, once you can put words in, I mean, we can get all into Lacan that words have different meanings for other people. Like, you know, yes, of course, love doesn't mean the same to me as it means to you. But if we're generally speaking, having the words to define and articulate how you feel with precision is without a doubt liberating. And that's why the TED Talk experience was so major for me, because it was a moment that I had to sit down, actually write, and I'm going to tell you something that was crazy too, with this whole TED Talk, thing. So I was getting ready to film a movie right in the middle of when I'm getting ready to do the TED Talk and have the TED experience. And I was fine with it. I was like, I'll go in, just do my talk that one day. I won't get to do the whole TED, but I'll get to do my talk that one day. That'll be fine. In the midst of me, you know, preparing for my talk, we're preparing for the movie. And they're chipping away at a lot of stuff. Like the movie was supposed to be a certain amount of days. Now it's damn near two days. Not literally, but you know what I mean? It ain't a long time. The movie was supposed to be this much money they doing with it. Now, it's crunched this much money. Okay. That's going to make things harder for us as well. You know, all these little things started to happen. That started to make me feel really just not happy and uncomfortable. You know, and in the midst of that, they were also chopping down my TED days. So originally I was going to have all my TED days and be able to have the experience. But then suddenly that stopped going from that to me just having the one day. And I was still like, all right, fine. Then they call and they say again, and pretty much they're going to take away the TED day. And I did something that I've never done before, which I am still so proud of myself doing this. I said, I'm not doing the movie. Wow. I'm not doing the movie. I'm done. Because by the way, I already didn't want to do the movie. The truth of the matter is I was already doing the same shit that I'm talking about doing in this speech that I ain't going to do no more. I don't feel good. It doesn't make me happy. I'm not going to enjoy this. This is requiring me to chop off pieces of myself that matter to me. Man, when I tell you that I said no to that movie and I felt so liberated and had my experience with my TED conference and had my talk and was able to feel truly embodied in that moment and to know that I was actually making choices that really were real for the person that the true full person that I am. That was a moment. I'm so proud of myself. I'm proud of you. That's amazing. Those are the hardest moments though. When you're put to the test. Yeah, exactly. You're up there saying the thing. And then you almost have to live it. I've had many of those moments and those are the hardest because you can tell whether you're in alignment or you're misaligned because you're like, I'm saying this thing over here. And it's so crazy because then to get the feedback that I had gotten on my TED talk, I just like, God is just so real to me, you know, because it's like, God will show you, life will show you. And it's not about like just data and insights. It's about impact. It's about the fact that somebody comes up to me and they say, girl, I feel the same way. And this is what I've been experiencing with my family. I love doing movies and I love performance and I love all that type of stuff, but you can't take these. If something is going to take moments like that away from me, true connection like that for me, then it ain't right. I know that it ain't right. If it doesn't feel good, if I'm not liberated and excited about it, then it can't be, it can't be correct for me. It can't be true. And so that really was a big moment for me this year. It really was. Yeah. At the beginning, you kind of can cut corners. You, you're trying to figure your way, right? Like you, you, you, not everything's going to be fully aligned when you start, you have to do certain things. You have to compromise, but then when you get to a certain point, that's why you get to that point, right? To your point about that point, you can't deny the awareness. I had become so aware. I had become much too aware. When you started, you don't know. But once you are aware, I was aware that if I said yes to that movie and, and didn't do what I wanted to do with Ted, I would have been betraying myself. See, these other situations, the self-betrayals are not as glaring because we don't really even know how to really show up for ourselves. We're still trying to become aware of what we want. But once you become aware of what you want aware of what's not in alignment with that and you decide to still do what's not in alignment with that well now you're gonna have me dealing with I betrayed myself and that once I become aware of when I could be betraying myself I'm not closing my eyes to that like you can I'm not going to be blindfolded to that one thing if I can't really see it I don't really know and it's a delayed reality but when I know straight out this is the moment I was waiting for what am I going to do with it and I'm going to show up for me I must pause pause that was that was I want to go to this church I'm waiting Kiki you gotta set this up I'm like I'm all in I'll be the first disciple I'm like right there I'll be the first student to sign up and subscribe I'm in I'm so in I'm like I've never been this motivated in my life I'm gonna walk out of here and like change the world after this like you already know no no no but this is no but that's what I'm saying like this is like this is the most pumped up I've ever been on the show I'm like dude you need to go out there and sort your life out what are you doing I'm being serious I'm being serious I mean it I'm not just saying it I actually mean it I'm being very genuine you mentioned a couple of moments ago the idea of love and I was thinking about a lot of our audience are young women they're entrepreneurs they're doing incredible things they're winning at life but the question that I constantly get is Jay I want to find the right partner I want to find the right person that's an important part of my life what do you look for in a partner today with everything you've achieved everything that you are all the inner work that you've done what do you look for you know this is a question I've been asking myself and I had a cool little moment with my mom the other day where it was kind of a realization of if you're not really wanting what you say you want your relationships are going to keep failing and I feel like because my parents were traditional I thought that that's what I wanted and by traditional I just mean like particular you know married you know we are in a very just like my parents are so all-american it ain't even funny you know it's just like it's just like it's just like it's just like it's just they found each other out of college fell in love of a year got married they left each other side since they are an American story and so I assumed that that was for me because I admire it so much and I just thought it was just so awesome but the truth was that actually is not in alignment with who I am in my life my parents weren't entertainers full-time they weren't doing the kind of work that I were doing they weren't dedicated to a passion in this regard they don't have my same personality they don't have my same makeup they made me from that but I'm not actually that traditional I've always loved whoever I wanted to love relationships can look any which way to me like that's how they felt even though I was trying to do something that I felt was the only way to do it and so now what relationships look like for me is like I'm somewhere between Uncle Jesse and Erykah Badu probably you know what I mean I'm living with my family you know what I mean like I love that you know I want to be in my own house and I want to be in my own house with my family with my sisters with my niece my nephew like I always want us to have that like that makes me happy so I don't think that my like love or a relationship with me necessarily looks like we live together or if we do live together we live together part-time like when I'm coming to where you're at and I decide to stay with you for a little while and then I go back to my house so there's a big space that has to be held for independence and freedom that doesn't mean I want to sleep with everybody you know that's not what I mean by freedom although it could look it could look like that it really means I just want to have my own space to be me and I think that's something I used to lie about to myself about because I felt like I had to perform what it was to be a partner that means we got to be together all the time that means we got to do all this together but that actually isn't what I like and so then my personality to change I start being a little withdrawn I don't really care as much and now you feel like I'm lying but I'm not intentionally lying I'm just trying to be a role that I don't want to play and I act most of the time so now I'm tired of acting with you and now the relationship is like I don't want to be a relationship is done yeah and so I think what I'm learning about myself are those things right I don't necessarily need to be with somebody all the time because I still want to be with my friends and I want to be with my family and I want to be with myself that's number one we have to have great sex sorry good looking you know what I mean I'm like this I mean that's that's a reliever you know what I mean you need that relief in life so we have to have some type of passion and chemistry in that regard I don't think I always was again as a woman you're not allowed to yeah you can't be truthful but half the time that's why you're mad because you're not getting that vitamin d you needed it to be at a certain level and it was given not enough so you know I got to be real about that yeah so I think that's important to me and experiences like quality time we could be on the couch watching a movie or show or we could be going on an excursion somewhere in the alps so experience I think I see I think for me relationship love is less about what it looks like to other people what relationships are supposed to be and truly what makes me happy what allows me to be fully myself what's fun to me not that we don't have difficult times but what is ultimately fun respectful and true yeah I remember I was talking to some guy recently and he kept saying sorry every time that he would be late to a message to me or something like that and I really wanted him to know like you're not obligated to me we we know I know we vibing and I love the vibe and I love that you want to reach out to me but I want to know that you want to reach out to me because you want to reach out to me not because you think I'm going to be angry with you or because the connection's then going to be lost or because if you need time I want you to know that I can hold space for you to need time for you because I want you to hold space for me because the truth of the matter is you don't want to talk to somebody all day long sometimes it don't mean you don't love them you know what I mean it don't mean you don't love them it just means you need to be you might need to be in your mind for a minute or you might need to take you to a break or whatever and then you come back and say hey it was a hard day for me I know you ain't heard from me all day but I'm hold space for you because I don't need you to perform connection I need you to just be truthful in you and I think that's what it looks like for me now what is the truth for you and can you still love me in there do you still like me and now you still want to hang out with me if you still want to hang out with me then maybe we could be meant to be you know that's such a great answer I feel like everyone's doing some version of that forming folding molding performing right we're all kind of going oh you want me to be a bit more that then I'll be a bit more that and you want me to be a bit less that then I'll be a bit less that and then we end up becoming this version and then we resent ourselves and then that person doesn't like us either because it's like it's like all of it we failed at all of it so many times because I've just thought that I had to be this traditional vibe and it wasn't me and so then after a while I'm tired of playing this role and it ain't even like there's some secret that you're hiding it's like I want to be in my room alone and I just didn't take enough space for myself and so now I'm mad in my relation because I've betrayed me and I'm resenting we're scared that being ourselves will push the other person away but then if you become the person they want you to be you push them away anyway because you don't like yourself you don't like yourself and you can't do it for that long how long are you going to do it for and so it's so fascinating that yeah we'll say oh no but if I if I tell them that this is what I want and this is what I need then they might go away right it's true like that's that's what people are thinking and honestly maybe they should you know some of these people this is that Virgo right now it's like we are having a Virgo in time it's absolutely incredible but it's true because sometimes you're doing all that shit and it's like that was never for you girl or guy or them or they that wasn't for you and so we do have to really start being truthful so that we can actually be connected with the people that are on our same frequency the more that we're contorting ourselves the more we're connecting with the people that are on our into being who we're not the more that we're actually getting what we don't want which is just like so sucky yeah it's the worst it's the worst do you find it hard to trust people I think so even just put some my shit down with them trust because I also feel like that my life comes with a lot of stuff that people can end up getting affected by so it's hard a because I feel you know that my life comes with a lot of stuff that people can end up getting affected by so it's it's a lot going on and I don't want it like it's hard to trust someone with that weight and so I kind of just say well I don't want to tell it because that's too much for you and I don't want to really put it on you but then also when I have let people into my world the lights are bright and the reality of it is every relationship is a little bit transactional doesn't mean that it's bad like you know there's always a gift somebody's gonna be getting something you're gonna be giving something and it happens back and forth and that's to me there's nothing wrong with this that's humanity that's relationship but what happens sometimes with me is that sometimes people get stuff they didn't even ask for they get attention that perception could be either inflated or it could be deflated there's so much that they could get that they're not even aware that they could get that they didn't even necessarily want but then they're then asked what they're willing to take and I've been very disappointed a lot of times because I've learned that a lot of people will take more than they need just because it's there and it's very human but it's very hurtful to me because then I feel like I'm not being seen or valued really for who I am but you're now being lost in the world of who I'm perceived to be and you're willing to take whatever that world gives you and that is an extraction actually from me it's very extractive so that has hurt me a lot in relationships being able to say it has become so happy because I would just feel it yeah I'm being robbed of something I don't know what you're stealing but there's something being dimmed but I've learned now what what it is that's happening and I hold grace for those people but I create healthy distance yes because without that awareness you might rob me and I'm not open for theft you know yeah people yeah people fall in love with your avatar they they fall in love with that you know that 2d version of you and that happens to everyone by the way you don't have to be a public figure or be in movies for people to do that people fall in the 2d version of you and often that 2d version is the version they even made up of you and then the benefits that come with that 2d version and none of us want to be loved for that no because it's a caricature it's like it feels like erasure yeah it feels like you're being erased it feels like erasure it's like damn i don't matter i don't it's so funny because you find yourself in these relationships where it's like again this goes back to what we're talking about where it's like well you erased that person first because you didn't speak the truth you didn't actually say your boundaries you didn't actually say your limits you didn't actually so they're only acting like you and so it's really important for perception to not be something that guides you and for you to know yourself enough to know what is reality and what is just the figment of other people's imagination yeah yeah and we outsource that a lot what does my mom think what does my friend think what is my you know and and you can just outsource the biggest decisions of your life to the group chat that group chat need to be on paul yeah yeah it's like right now the whole world is up over here yeah but we do it yeah we do all the time we do all the time kiki we got a game for you that i want to play with you but a few more moments like this was made just for you it's called does it have a little sweetness to it so i'm gonna give you a scenario and you'll tell me if it's sweet or if it's a no-go when it comes to day okay all right they create a playlist for you oh that's sweet that's sweet i think that's sweet a playlist i just made a playlist for someone i did they don't know though okay what you're scared of giving it i'm scared i'm not giving it to them are you not giving it to them i'm not i'm scared it's for me when i'm thinking about them oh okay it's like a playlist for me when i want to be the soundtrack of my mind okay morning evening all day all day wow oh wow all right so i'm gonna give you a scenario and you'll tell me if it's sweet or if it's no-go when it comes to lucky person all right uh they keep a photo of you in their wallet that's sweet okay that's sweet and their wallet is sweet yeah not their screensaver though on their phone screensaver or wallet just me screensaver is a bit much i think screen screensaver is us i'm happy with got it just me screensaver is cringe all right don't do that all right they bring you soup when you're sick that's so lovely that's so thoughtful absolutely you're very empathetic compassionate loving human being you're very empathetic compassionate loving human being else would be a bit more savage with this all right they plan an entire date but won't tell you where you're going i like that do you like surprises i like well i like to know that i'm about to be surprised so if he set the context of this is a surprise then i'm cool sometimes surprise can be a bit much if i'm not in the mood for the because i get overstimulated and this is what i've also noticed with my son the reason why my son is like that is because he knows he's overstimulated and so he'll be like back up all this shit y'all doing too much that's what i actually feel and so i've learned to like actually just say like don't you know what i mean because it's i get overstimulated and then i become plateaued it's too much i get it yeah i get it all right a few more uh they write you a handwritten letter is it positive or is it like it's a love letter i'm here for the love letter okay i'm here for the love i love it oh my gosh you're so easy to please you're like yeah i'll take it all that's the problem they asked to take a picture together after the first date no that's an absolute no picture together after the first day what we're doing is this is not a no no i don't want that there's no exceptions to that one all right they call instead of texting you back absolutely not do not call me ever ever i'll call you if i don't start the calling with you don't call me i'm here for text i'm even here for voice notes don't call me i hate voice notes oh yeah especially people talk so slow do you have your train i'm like get to the point bro do you have your transcripts on yeah i just read the transcripts half the time i literally i'm like i can't stand voice notes unless you have an amazing voice and i asked you to send me a voice please do not send me a voice note please don't send me a voice note you are too funny they want to spend every day together obviously we know the answer to that one that's too much it's not even because i don't like you but we're not going to be good if we do this like we're just not i think what would be like really good like my minimum would be like once a week seeing you in person that's like a stretch like i would like to see you at least three times a week i think three times a week is good and then we can have space in between there you know what i'm saying because let me miss you i also have learned that i like that that i like being able to come back to be so oh my gosh you won't believe what happened the last few days i didn't get a chance to tell you about this we need that yeah you don't want that daily just routine because what are we saying yeah how's your day yeah yeah they tell their mom about you after the second day no no no no no has someone done that before yeah wow somebody had me meet their whole family on this after the second day how did you walk into that i was going through a breakup i said hey what did you do did you just go hey i just said hey y'all i mean it turned into a tour i felt like i was on a super fan tour you know what i mean that's the worst i didn't have anything else going on so i went with it last one they dance with you in the kitchen that's sweet yeah i love that we're dancing in the kitchen yeah it's sweet i like it a little bit of a movie i like it okay so this is good this is there's there's lots of opportunities i'm super sentimental yeah me too i am too i think that's is that the virgo in us is that just i think that is hopeless romantic in us we clearly have a similar personality i don't know how much of that is our signs but us having the same sign i mean it does seem like it's goes hand in hand we love genuine sincerity moments like that's always going to happen to us and we're going to have a lot of fun and we're going to have a lot of fun and we're going to win with us we don't like anything virgos don't really like when stuff is like just false yes yes you know so those things feel pure pure yeah and real we talked about this but i wanted to talk about from the perspective of like you just took on so much responsibility when you were young and for me it's like i took i remember taking on responsibility for myself and that was hard enough i started working when i was 14 i paid for my my own phone bill paid for my first car paid for all of that stuff but i wasn't taking care of my family my family was taking care of me overall so i'm like i can't imagine what that does what do you feel you've had to understand unlearn from your childhood that time is over because i think that that was necessary at that time you know i come from a village the village of robbins and community is everything and i still stand behind those rituals in order for my family to get out of poverty that was what it took but i just didn't realize when it was done it did require a lot from me but i didn't do it alone my parents were there for me it was definitely like it was a scenario you know what i'm saying it's like there's some things that like we've got to understand and we've got to understand and we've got to like are systemically what happens and it's not a scenario that you would hope for but i felt like i could do it and so i did my very best and my parents were there and it was a business that we held up it was a lot of it was on me because i was the one in front but i didn't do it alone they were there to support me and so it got to a point where it's like that's over so everything that i had to learn to be during that time i just didn't learn and i'm gonna have to have as many years of relaxing it to know that it's done with because i don't have to operate from that same level don't have to operate from that same place that the same thing that was driving me then or what i was feeling like i was up against i'm no longer up against because i think that like realizing that that that it's over that we survived it you know what i mean is this has been the biggest thing yeah it's so hard isn't it again it goes back to those tools that you develop you develop a mindset that gets you out of the mess yep and then you have to let go of that mindset in order to get the next one exactly and really self-compassion is the main one my feelings were not important my desires to rest my desire to be free you know see so you see these collections of why i see love the way that i see it you know because being responsible for other people that i've exhausted that or feeling responsible for other people i've exhausted that that i've had enough time with that in my life so being able to feel like i can be my own self that's what's more connected to what is actually needed for me in my life in in love in friendships and family and so being able to be free being able to be my own self being able to say that i don't want this being able to say that i'm tired of you being able to say that i need a break being able to say no to the project those are all versions of me reminding myself that i'm not in survival mode i've survived it we've survived it i can truly be free kiki i love talking to you i love talking to you too we have a ball yeah we have a great time i know you're the best we end every episode of on purpose with a final five these questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum okay and so kiki palmer these are your final five the first question is what is the best advice you've ever heard or received never let someone else's perception of you be your perception of yourself good advice question number two what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received oh that's hard you don't remember anyway right i probably blocked that shit out i don't know that was hard yeah that's hard that's good we'll skip it uh question number three how do you define a good friend i mean it maybe seems simple but a good friend is somebody that lets you be you you know good friend is somebody that you don't have to perform around that you can truly rest in who you are absolutely question number four i want you to repeat this and finish the sentence i think i think too much about i think i think too much about systems and structures tell me more i'm a person that's really driven on pattern recognition like that's like how my cognition functions i'm like constantly searching for the pattern love that i have that we have us now for each other because i'm about to be like because literally dude i just i'm always looking at the underneath underneath of the underneath of what caused that and why was that you know it's a good thing but sometimes it's like take a break babes just just stop looking for the reasons the reasons that we're here sing it whose song is that i don't know dad i don't know why that popped into me when i just thought about it but it's like i'm always doing that and i remember back from when i was a little bitty girl in my grandma's house outside of a porch looking at the ants studying patterns systems structures i've always been obsessed with that with my lines the way i learn my lines the way i understand words the way that i understand experiences everything is based on that and so it's it's obviously something i truly enjoy you know it's like math ontologically it's like you know the experience of being able to recognize what's going to come next just because you're watching and learning through what you see i love it but sometimes i need to take a break and just be and stop always trying to be albert einstein i love that fifth and final question we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow what would it be i hope nobody's mad at me but i think that this would help us with all this over fat manufacturing everything like this you don't have to be a vegetarian maybe you don't have to be a vegan but let's be seasonal and have things for a period of time maybe only chicken this time of year maybe only beef this time of year maybe only fish this time of year maybe only you know these vegetables when they're in season only like you know i feel like it would help us a little bit i think you know i've been thinking a lot about the global warming bit i've been thinking a lot about the earth and how we can try to get something under control and i think it's a really good question i think it's a really good question i think it would be good if we did things marked off so that we wouldn't overdo it and then people getting sick and then now we got to pump everything up because we don't have enough of it well if it was only for this time of year or if we had year where it's like this is the year of chicken or this is the year you know what i mean like just i don't know i just feel like we got to get that under control yes just you know so i would love to do something where the food and stuff was like you know more accessible especially in food deserts i grew up in a food desert we only had a kid with this organization called urban farming because they actually would go in urban areas and farm because there was no access to actual food everything was just processed packaged stuff and so like you know i wish that those things was free i wish that people could have free foods that grow they should be able to grow it where you are and you shouldn't have to pay for them i know i know farmers was coming for me i'm not coming for you farmers i'm not saying you don't deserve to be paid i'm just saying that maybe the government could hook us up help us out you know what i mean god kiki palmer you are the best you're the best honestly i've not had this much fun on the podcast ever before i have to give it to you if anyone asked me what was the most fun you've had on the show it's with you without a doubt i mean that's been seven years too so when i say that it's it's a real statement i feel the same you i just knew that's why i was telling everybody because i was working a day and i'm like oh it's gonna be so great with jay because he's gonna be talking about something so interesting interesting i just knew and so you didn't disappoint good i'm glad we'll come back anytime yes thank you you're the best thank you so much