Keisha Lance Bottoms on What Democrats Have to Do to Not Squander the Win

I was never running because I was a Black woman. I wake up as a Black woman every day, so I didn't feel the need to lead with that. I'm Lulu Garcia-Navarro, and today I'm talking to Keisha Lance Bottoms. Georgia, this win is for all of us. Bottoms, the new governor-elect of Georgia, is the first Black woman ever elected governor of a U.S. state. And the first Democrat to win the governor's race in Georgia in more than 25 years. There was a big wave, a seismic shift. Her decisive victory, along with Senator John Ossoff's re-election, affirms Georgia's transformation from a Republican stronghold to a state that Democrats can win. Bottoms prevailed despite being massively outspent by her Republican rival, Rick Jackson. If we don't listen and if we don't deliver, then shame on all of us. So now that she's won, what does that mean for politics in the South and for her personally? It was a moment that is indescribable, but I just felt as if she were speaking to me, saying, you are standing on shoulders made of steel. Here's my conversation with Governor-elect Keisha Lance Bottoms. Governor-elect, it is a pleasure to have you on the interview, and congratulations on your resounding victory. Well, thank you. I'm glad to join you, and thank you so much. It's been quite the week. How would you characterize what happened on Tuesday, you know, for your state, for your party, and for the country? Well, I've heard people use the term blue tsunami, and I think that pretty much captures it. We knew that there was an opportunity for us to flip the house in Georgia and for us to also take, you know, all of the constitutional seats, but to see it actually happen and, of course, send our Senator Ossoff back to the Senate, it was a great night in Georgia and across America. You know, I was looking at New York Times Georgia voting data, and the backbone of the Democratic Party really turned out in Georgia. Huge numbers, black women, black men who had gone to Trump coming back and voting for Democrats in Georgia. Was this about. the gutting of the Voting Rights Act that motivated people? Was it about black candidates being on the ballot in such numbers? Something else? And I haven't had an opportunity to even look at the data beyond the record turnout that we had, but it was about all of the above and then some. As I moved around the state over a year and a half, as we campaigned, cost of living, affordability discussions continued. You know, there were concerns about whether we would continue to be at the top of the list, concerns about access to health care, and even when we polled the issues during the primaries, interesting to see that voting rights and concerns around democracy were around nine or ten on the list. And by the time we completed the race, I believe it was second or third on the topping our polling issues. Trump sent people into Georgia, and the more disruptive things looked to be related to voting, the more people paid attention. So there were a number of things that turned people out this election cycle. And I can tell you, I didn't get elected with just black women and black men. There were a cross-section of people across this state. And but what struck me also, no matter our backgrounds, no matter our communities, we really were all concerned about the same things. I mean, is that what you were sort of hearing when you because you went to rural parts of Georgia and really tried to engage, I think, a cross-section of of the population there? Why do you think it was so important to reach out to maybe groups that had not been reached out to before by, you know, the Democratic Party? Well, one, an Atlanta mayor has never been elected as governor of Georgia, so I knew that it was important for me to dispel the myth that I would only be interested in what was happening in Atlanta and not the entire state. But also, it was important for me to listen to people in communities that I didn't normally go into. I think it was a day or two before Election Day. We were in Whitfield County, a county that that Trump carried, I believe, by over 70 percent. So we were still talking to not just Democrats, but Republicans and independents. Because I wanted people to know that I would be a governor for all people. And then also that I genuinely was interested in hearing what their concerns were and what they needed from their leader. I also want to understand what this victory means for you personally. Right before the election, you went to your ancestor's gravesite. Can you tell me about who she was and why you went there and what happened? I went to Crawfordville, Georgia, which throughout the campaign, each time I would pass a sign on the interstate, I would say, I've got to get to Crawfordville. And it was not on our our stops. It's a very small town. And the day before the election, we got to Crawfordville, Georgia, where my grandmother was born in 1916. We went to the cemetery where I believe my family members may have been buried and in this cemetery. Full of unmarked graves. We came across a headstone and I saw my family name, went over to it and I said, oh, you know, this is a family member here. Peake is our family name. And it literally knocked me to the ground. I dropped to one knee when I saw that the headstone said Betsy Peake, wife of Shepherd Peake, born in 1845, died in 1911. And I had a lot of information on my great great grandfather, who was once enslaved, but I didn't know very much about her at all. I had seen her picture and what blew me away was I could tell from this marker. This is a woman who was loved and who was cared for. And even in looking at the marker, what struck me was who's been tending. To this grave since 1909. And it was, you know, it was. It was a moment that that is indescribable. But I just felt as if she were speaking to me, saying, I'm here. And you are standing on shoulders made of steel. How did it help you see this journey that your family has been on from being enslaved? And how have you enslaved people to the governor's mansion of the state that enslaved your ancestors? Well, throughout the course of this campaign, people have asked me about the historic nature or the potential for the historic nature of this campaign. And I have repeatedly said for me, it was such it was much more personal because I knew that my family members were once enslaved in Georgia. And even Crawfordville, Georgia, was where another governor. Was born Stevens. And he was the vice president of the Confederacy. And I said it was just so much more personal to think of the journey of my family and the possibilities when decisions are made by people not knowing if they will ever see the fruits of their labor, but believing that tomorrow can be better. So it was all it's always been personal for me. I want to stay with your family just a little bit longer because your own. Your own parents are also a big part of your story. You know, both your parents had a huge influence on you and your journey. Your father, Major Lance, was a chart topping singer in the 1960s who worked with Curtis Mayfield. He performed overseas, but he was born on a sharecropper's farm in Mississippi and, you know, then raised in the projects in Chicago. You wrote about your upbringing and his influence in your memoir, The Rough Side of the Mountain. And I just want to say thank you so much for that. Thank you. And I just want to read something that you wrote so that people can understand a little bit about you. You wrote, The desire for the spotlight was in my DNA, thanks to my daddy. He was a showman and I was proud to be like him. Daddy never tried to rein in my self-image as a star. If anything, he encouraged it. When he was home, he would drive me to school in his champagne gold Seville. I'd ride in the back fantasizing that the car was my limo and daddy was my chauffeur. Can you tell me about the young? Keisha Lance Bottoms? Young Keisha was loved, ambitious, just full of life. And I always wanted to be a star, but I couldn't sing. I couldn't dance. If you ever see me on TikTok, you'll know why that didn't happen. And then I also write about my dad going to prison when I was eight. My dad is a wonderful human being who struggled with addiction. And when my dad went to prison, our lives did 180. never felt that the love disappeared. He was removed from our home, but his love was always there and always with me until his last day on this earth and beyond. And he also helped you get into the law, which you ended up doing, because of your experience seeing him in prison. How did that make you see the world? At eight years old, I realized that sometimes really good people make bad mistakes. And I've come to appreciate that it's given me empathy toward people. It allows me to see people beyond their worst day. I also realized it created a resilience in me that has allowed me to withstand a lot. And my tolerance is pretty high because sometimes, you know, some really bad things have happened in my life. So, and I can't say that all these were things that I appreciated in the moment. I often quote my grandmother, who was a woman of great faith, and she would say, all things will work for your good. And I realized all of these experiences, as traumatic as they were, as disruptive as they were, have worked for my good because it's created in me a heart for people that I. Honestly, don't know that I otherwise would have had. I want to talk about your time as mayor of Atlanta because also that was an incredibly important moment for you and in your career. And you came as in a very turbulent era. I mean, I've met other leaders who ascended to high office during that period of the pandemic and the racial justice movement. And it was a really, really difficult time to be a politician. You were a political leader and you ended up not seeking re-election. And, you know, the view of your time in office is pretty mixed. You know, there was a surge in homicides in the city during your term. There was a high-profile shooting of a black man, Rayshard Brooks, which ended up really upending the police department, sort of plummeting it into turmoil. And I'm just wondering now in hindsight, when you look back at that period, because clearly that was a moment that was pretty important for teaching you how government works, how to govern. What do you think you learned about how to, you know, traverse chaotic times? - The tendency is to go fast. And sometimes you need to take a beat and process and absorb and then move forward. So many lessons learned for me as a leader, as I would imagine it was for people across the country, because we were in unchartered territory. Another thing I learned was trusting my instincts on things. And it didn't mean that I got everything right, but it meant that I needed to be comfortable in knowing that every decision I made, I made it believing I was doing the right thing at that time. - Is there anything you regret? - Oh gosh, over the course of my term as mayor, I can just say I did everything I thought that I should do in the moment. But as a leader, you, you know, you can't not think about every decision and wonder was that the right one? Would things have turned out differently? - I mean, people were really surprised that you didn't seek reelection. And I'm wondering what that period out of elected office did for you. - It was really important for me, personally and professionally. I write about my dad dying at 55, unexpectedly. And the health challenges he faced and my realizing I was on that same path. My kids were a lot younger. Remembered a moment during the pandemic when we were all on lockdown, seeing them while the sun was still up and realizing, I, I never saw them during daylight hours. - Yeah, you have four children. - Four children. So I don't regret that decision at all. I do wholeheartedly believe that in stepping back and doing something that nobody else understood, that there was strength in that and it was necessary. And I had no idea that I would even run for governor, but, it gave me an opportunity to step back and process and reassess and determine what my priorities were. And here I am as the governor-elect. - You are the first female black governor in a U.S. state, but seven other black women also won statewide races in Georgia, including Penny Brown Reynolds as secretary of state, Tanya Miller as attorney general. What's going on? - Well, there was a big wave of a seismic shift in Georgia. Someone sent me a graphic of the state leadership before Tuesday and what it looks like after Tuesday. You know, it was, it's just, again, I'm absorbing it. I find it difficult to even put into words, but I, I know that all of these women, all of these women will be incredible leaders and it's, it's going to be great to, to have some people, many of whom I know, many of whom I call friends, going into this next chapter. - Penny Brown Reynolds told the news site, the 19th after her election, and I'm quoting here, "We were not selected because we were black women. I believe that we were selected because all of us bring something that Georgia desperately needs. What this says is that a black woman can lead by being her authentic self. It says there is a turning, if you will, in America, that in the state of Dr. Martin Luther King and John Lewis, that maybe, just maybe, we're finally being judged by the content of our character and the experience and leadership that we bring." Do you see it the same way? - Well said, well said. And Penny is actually my law school classmate, well said. I couldn't agree more. - I wonder what the lessons are for Democrats in terms of running or not running on identity. Because I think what she was alluding to there is that we are competent first. Of course we carry our identity, our race, our gender, but we are being able to be seen for what we bring to the table and not just those things. And I saw it in Texas as well with Governor-elect Gina Hinojosa. She made history too by being the first Latina to be elected governor of that state, but she never made her identity central to her campaign. I mean, do you think Democrats have moved away from identity politics? Do you think people are just less interested in that? - No, for me, it was not some active choice. It wasn't the reason that I was running. I wake up as a black woman every day. So I didn't feel the need to leave with that, it speaks for itself. This really was about the issues. And I can say, you know, I say a broken clock is right twice a day. If the president has taught us anything, it is that people appreciate people who are authentic, whether you like it or not. And I think it's for so many people across the country, it's been liberating, but I never felt the need to, say, oh, and by the way, and I'll be the first, and I'm a black woman and, because it wasn't important to the race. The things that people were talking about when I moved across the state had nothing to do with race. It was about how am I gonna put food on my table, gas in my car? How am I gonna pay my rent? Those were things that people were talking about. - Does that feel materially different? Because I think what she was saying there is that, like we've reached a moment perhaps in America where, that becomes the most important thing. What can this person do for me? And then secondarily to that is maybe who they are. - No, I don't know if it's in this moment or if we'll see a shift, you know, politically we see these shifts. I remember when President Obama was elected and there were these conversations about a post-racial America right up until there weren't. So, you know, I don't know, but I know when people are struggling financially, economically, when they don't have healthcare, when they've got these real issues that are staring them in the face every single day, I don't know that they care if it's a black woman or a blue man who's coming to help them. They just want and need help and leadership who's gonna make a difference. - You know, the South was long written off by Democrats. And in the last sort of, I don't know, since I've been thinking about politics, politics. But look at what happened in South Carolina, you know, where a Democrat won a Senate seat for the first time since 1998. Mississippi, while we're talking, a Democrat is ahead in a very tight race. What do you think needs to happen so that this isn't just a blip in a bad year for Republicans, but an enduring shift for Democrats? Because, you know, South Carolina's kingmaker, Representative Jim Clyburn, told Politico that the South is gaining electoral votes, power is shifting, and Democrats need to figure out how to keep this blue and not just have it be a kind of wave that washes them back out to sea. We better keep listening to the people and delivering for the people, being upfront with the people about what we can do, what we've tried to do, what we've fallen short on. And if we don't listen, and if we don't deliver, then shame on all of us. Well, I'd love to know what that means specifically in terms of delivering, because you are going to be leading a divided statehouse. The Senate, as you mentioned, is going to be controlled by Republicans. The House is in Democratic control. What will that mean for you to actually get things passed and do what you have promised to do? It means. You got to go in and we're going to have to work across the aisle with people who may not normally be allies. But what I know, for example, with health care in Georgia, urban centers and rural communities in red counties and blue counties alike have been impacted by this. So you find common ground where you can, and then you figure out how you're going to fight it out over those things that you don't necessarily agree on. But it's going to be for Democrats to Republicans. Hopefully, we've all learned the same lessons. You got to deliver for people and believe them when they tell you what they want and what they need. You know, Governor-elect, I'm very curious because I do think one of the trickiest issues is navigating the sort of conflicting messages of the electorate. You know, do they want radical change and a revamp? Or do they want bipartisan solutions that don't go to extremes? I think you can read things both ways. And I'm wondering what you think about that. Yeah, I've said throughout the course of this campaign, Georgia is not a place that does well with extremes on one side or the other. We do very well, all things in moderation. And it's what Ambassador Young has often called our ability to navigate in this very unique way. He used to call it the Atlanta way. I call it the Georgia way, where the philanthropic community, the corporate community, our small businesses, our university leaders, our government comes together for the good of the people. So it means that we don't villainize one group or the other. It's not an either or proposition. Again, we find those things that we can agree on and work together to get them done for the good of the people. People, obviously, though, want results pretty fast. I mean, what is the day 10? Well, immediately, I'll begin to prepare our state agencies for Medicaid expansion. The budget comes from the governor's office. So day one, it's going to be about reflecting those priorities in the budget. Those things that we can address via executive order, we'll do that. Legislature will go into session as soon as we are sworn in in January. And eliminating that grocery tax is going to be a priority. Preparing, trying to get Medicaid expansion done, it's going to be a priority. Fully and properly funding our schools, making sure our kids have a spot in pre-K will be a priority. You've explicitly campaigned on restoring Roe v. Wade. And I am curious how much political capital you feel you can expend on that. Is that something that's going to sort of take a little bit of time? How do you view that issue in particular? Well, we are one step closer with the flipping of the House in Georgia. And we are only two seats shy. Really, there's a two-seat gap. Really, we just need one seat in the Senate for us to be even in the Senate. So we're going to see what we can get done. Can we get some bipartisan support on reversing the six-week abortion ban now? Or do we have to wait two years until hopefully we can flip the Senate? Last few questions. And this one is a big one about America. America in this moment. As a country, we've been through so much. I don't think I need to describe that to most viewers left or right. They've felt it. They've lived it, as have you. And what really struck me about this election is how the hopes of young people in particular, who have grown up in this chaos, swung towards Democrats. You have children, so do I. So you know that young people feel an enormous amount of sort of despair over jobs and technology and education. And I think that's one of the things that we've seen. Over their future, what kind of country they're going to inherit. And so how do you plan to make life better for them in particular? And what is your promise to the young people of Georgia? Well, and I heard them loud and clear. And I quite often say my kids are the best focus group that I have in my kitchen. I have a 24-year-old, 18-year-old, and 16-year-old twins. Hadn't been a room that I've walked into with high school students. I've walked into a room that I've walked into with high school students. And college students that they haven't asked about access to mental health support. Our college students are asking about the cost of living. They are expressing deep concerns about AI and is my education worth it? And will AI allow me to even have a job in the future? So I know those concerns are real. And I've made a commitment to expanding access to mental health services. I've talked about sitting down, figuring out how we train our kids to be able to navigate this new normal with AI and making sure that they are career ready. So it's not just in Georgia, but America. It's a work in progress. And it's going to take all of us working together because all of our families and our communities are being impacted. I want to just end by playing you something I've found to be quite moving. In an interview with Atlanta's CBS affiliate, civil rights leader, former UN ambassador and Atlanta mayor, Andrew Young, reacted to your election. And I'm wondering if you can just play, if I can play you this clip, they're going to show it to you right now. But this is the America they taught me about. I felt like we saw the results of our labors. I think Coretta King is smiling. My first wife, Jean Young, my daughter, both died of cancer. But they're sharing in this victory. How does that make you feel? Oh, I called Ambassador Young today and left him a message just to thank him. And I said in my voicemail, I said, I hope those were tears of joy. And I was with him about a month or so ago at his church. And I've never seen him so emotional speaking. And I've never seen him so emotional publicly as he talked about the prospect of my election. And it hit me then what this moment must mean for him and so many people like him who never thought that they would see it. And they thought they were planting seeds for a harvest that they may not necessarily be able to reap. But just so happy that he gets to have this moment. And that he recognizes that all of his hard work and everything that he's always believed in has happened in Georgia, the Deep South. I'm grateful. Thank you again so much. And get some sleep. Next week. That's Keisha Lance Bottoms. To watch this interview and many others, you can subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com slash at symbol the interview podcast. This conversation was produced by Seth Kelly, Wyatt Oram, and Paola Newdorf. It was edited by John Wu, mixing by Katie McMurrin, original music by Dan Powell and Marion Lozano. The rest of the team is Priya Matthew, Jobel Munoz, Eddie Costas, Jeremy Rocklin, Gaby Contreras, and Kathleen O'Brien. Our executive producer is Alison Benedict. Next week, David talks with actor and director Olivia Wilde. I'm Lulu Garcia-Navarro. and this is The Interview from The New York Times.