Keeping customers' interest at the intersection of everything we do

Hello everyone, welcome to sales psycho's actionable marketing webinar. During our last session, we tried experimenting by converting the format from webinar to a face-to-face conversation. The response we got was massive. Instead of going back to our old way, we thought providing the same experience by having face-to-face conversation know as well. Lately, not lately, for a while, we have been relying on apps and digital products on a massive scale. We might not even realize the importance and impact of those products until it stopped working. Do you think it was accidentally discovered and developed to make our life easy? No, absolutely not. It was by design. A lot goes into developing these products. Identifying, sorry, interacting with the masses to identifying the problem, calculating the business potential of the problem, coming up with a solution, creating a wide frame, giving life to it's, giving life to that wide frame by working with the developers, and then going back to the market and getting feedback from the users and going back to the ideation stage. The cycle goes on for a product market, for a product manager. All the while, keeping customer's interest at the intersection of everything they do. Customer engagement and experience has been the core concept of this whole session. So it made compelling sense to bring the people who are beginning creating that customer experience and engagement in the product we use. With great joy, I welcome and definitely to the marketing webinar session. Hello, Ann. Thank you, Prajavish. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. And I'm super glad to be here and hello to everyone as well. Thank you for inviting me to your session. I hope it's going to be a very good experience for us. Thank you. Before we start the session, I want to give a clear idea about how we have structured this. The first 30 minutes will discuss about the general and specific aspects of product management. And then after that, we'll have a Q&A session. You can post your questions in the chat section and Ann will answer them. Hope everything is clear and we'll move on to our first segment. First let me get this question out of the way. As a product manager, you don't always get to work on a massive shiny thing. Sometimes you work on small modules, you do your market research, you pour all your effort and energy and your heart out to design that particular module. But not every time you get the same result when you're working with a bigger module. Sometimes people might not even notice what you're doing. So when that happens, that's that hurt. I think we are starting the webinar with a very painful and difficult question. So yes, it does hurt because we put a lot of thought and effort even if it's a small color change or a placement of a button in a different place. Or even if it's a big feature, a lot grows into creating that particular change or taking a decision on that change. So it involves analyzing customer patterns, analyzing different types of users. For example, if you want to do a color change, you need to analyze the different customers that are using your product. For example, if somebody over the 60 or 50 years old is trying to access the product, we need to have the fonts and the color in a more vibrant manner so that they're able to have a good visibility of it. So when we put in a lot of effort and when customers don't have a look at it or just dismiss it, it is painful. But the way I see it is there's always a key feedback from it. A very simple example. So I think recently when I was talking to one of the customer and we were on a session, I was talking to him about the call feature that we have in sales IQ. And I was telling them that you can just click on the call button and you can get Connect on call. And we were in a screen share and you could see the customer just going, you know, it's the entire screen and he wasn't able to find the call IQ. And I was all in Wadi here because this is one button and it's right there on the screen why isn't he able to look at it. But as a product creator or as a product manager, we tend to look at the nooks and corner of the product and we know the product very well. But as a product user, as an agent, his focus is completely within the chat area alone. So that's why he's going to look into all 9 hours or 6 hours of his job. So you can't expect them to go search for features or go try them out. So that was one key takeaway that we got by a learning that I could say is if you would have given the call feature or an actionable item, closer to the composer, the high chance of them to use that particular feature. So every day is a learning for PM. Yes, every moment, every second is definitely a learning for the product managers. I wanted to ask, when we sat down for the discussion for this session, you said in a product, everyone is a PM. I wanted to ask right away what you meant by that, but I wanted to save that for this session so that you can share with everyone. So what did you mean by that? Actually, I don't want to create any controversies. Please wait with me until I answer it clearly. So the way or why I said that in a way, we all are PMs is that the problem statement, the solution and the way we work might be different. But the end goal is to create products or create services that is, you know, customer oriented. Or even through our entire working process, we keep customers at the center of everything that we do. So that remains the same, right? So the core value of creating products remains the same. So just a quick question. So what do you do in marketing? Like, it's a very big question. If we want to address in a particular sense, like if a new feature is coming, for example, with sales, I could only call feature is coming. So first, we identify if there is a really need for that. Like, PMs usually do that, but will do it from that market perspective so that we can know what the people are searching for and will use that particular key phrase instead of saying we have this particular feature, instead of seeing what we want to see, we say what they want to hear so that it can relate to them even more. And we'll also do the market research and the competitor research before putting the material out. So this is exactly the same thing for product management as well. So we also do the market research. We have the ideation phrase where we conceive the idea and get compelling data to verify that this idea is good and it is going to actually benefit customers. And right after that, we also do bring up a customer case studies to understand how this particular feature would fit to different profiles of customers that are using the product. And along with that, we will also address a solution as a common factor. So as you can see, all our answers related, but the way we do the working or the way we process, it is just different. So that's the reason why I said everybody is a product manager in your own field. Everybody has to prioritize their ideas, their execution styles. And in the end, the most important part is we're doing everything to give customers a better experience, meet and marketing sales, support, product management, use education, anything of those things. So I hope that wasn't the answer. Yes, yes. We did answer our question. Collaboration plays a major role in PM's day to day work. So you would be collaborating with multiple teams. So how does that work? Like what's your method approach that? So we collaborate with marketing team. I think we have so many instances of interaction of creating strategies and building products together. And we also work with internal teams like the COST, the support team, they also give us feedback. Then we have the partner team. So we closely interacted. And he was really good in a complex use cases and new requests for features as well. And then last but not the least, definitely we can interact with customers. So when we collaborate with all of them, we get huge amounts and amounts of feedback and reactions to each and every change or product update that we do. Now just because it's coming from a customer or coming from anybody who is not in the team, it doesn't mean you have to dismiss it. So you need to first accept that feedback, you need to consider it, evaluate it, and then decide whether it is good for the product or not. So one key thing that we have to keep in mind is everything that the customer asks doesn't mean it has to be immediately done or immediately created. We need to analyze and see the reason for why they are asking such questions and come up with a common solution. to address them. So I think collaboration is quite difficult because anybody and everybody who sees the product has an opinion. - It's an opinion. - Right, so I'm sure at least a few of you who have joined for today's session would have at least dropped a mail-in support saying, you know, this is something that you guys could have done better. And that is something that we do need as product teams. We definitely need feedbacks from the people who are using it. So the most important part is to analyze those feedbacks and see if it is aligned with the product's vision and then go ahead and prioritize and take up those decisions. - That's great because I had a follow-up question for this. I wanted to ask this controversial question, but when a lot of people are involved, you obviously get a lot of feedback. But how do you filter the noise out of that? Took it a music. So you kind of answered that question. So I'll go on to my next question. - All right. - Okay. - So what are the challenges of product manager face? - There are multiple challenges like collaborating with teams like we just spoke about. Also, you know, keeping in pace with the market trends and keeping an eye on your competition, which is also very important. Along with that, we need to, you know, be responsible or answerable to these stakeholders and finally trying to keep a balance by keeping close with your team as well as keeping close with customers. So these are the few among many other challenges that we face. But the one thing that I believe to overcome all of these challenges is to stay close to customers as much as you can. Because the minute you are close with customers and you start listening to your customers, it gives you a totally different perspective of how you see the product. So a very small instance. So I was in a session with one of our customers and we were trying to help them do a purchase on the grade of the sales IQ account. So as you know, in the sales IQ dashboard, you can see the profile icon on the top right. And we were just telling him, like, you know, you can go click it over there and do the purchase. But he wasn't able to figure it out as where that icon was or whether, you know, you can click and there's an entire sort of dashboard that gives you a lot of data. So this was a learning for us, where we had to make him understand that, you know, you have to go click in there. But this is something that we did not find out just sort of the blue. We silently observed the customer. We did not interrupt him between and tell him to go directly there. So we saw the way his working was. So as you said earlier, every action of the customer, every person movement is a great learning for the product management team. And with that, we understand how customers perceive the product and how they start using the product. It's completely different from the way we thought that they would be using it. - That's great. So is there any product marketers you heard, Maya? And if there are any interesting works they have done, they'd like to share with me. All of us. - So product marketers, I'm not sure. - Manager, sure. - Yeah, no problem. So product managers, I definitely have a list. I think that resonates with literally everybody who's here. So there's definitely Steve Jobs, there's Lulusheng, there's Dess trainer, and so on. But I would like to take a different approach. So I also equally admire Raseet Peters, Kevin Hart and Tiffany Haddish. And literally every other comedian outfit. I know some of you are hoping of a question saying what is she saying. But the way I see it is, as a standup comedian, they have to go through a lot of phases, a lot of stages to become successful. So they would have gone through multiple failures and they would have had to address an empty crowd, a crowd that is not welcoming. But in the end, they still are working for their passion and they are there where they are today. And I see that their work affects is something that we as product managers can be influenced or we can take something out of it. Because if you see, it sort of relates for product managers and as well as standard comedians. So they are also dealing with the difficult crowd, who we are also having customers, who may or may not even like your feature, right? And as they face a lot of failures, product managers also face failures. It's not that every feature that we do becomes a hit. So there are certain features that are not really working out, but we have to take a step back and find out what's missing and why it did not work. And there's always a learning every day in that part. So I strongly believe that we can get inspiration from every little things. And I think as much as Steve Job is one of the great inspiration leaders of all time, I also think we have something to learn from standard comedians as well. - Like my mother used to say, everyone you meet as a teacher. - Exactly, and that's a beautiful line as well. - So when next question is, I'd understand if you don't know how to answer this, but I'll still ask, is there any module or feature you saw in a competitive product or in any other product that maybe you say, I should have done that, I should have thought about that. - And a lot of products like that. And I don't wanna lose my job today. So I think we can quite least give that. Maybe come to a point where I can talk about something that we have worked on. Okay, I think that's good. - So any interestingly working on right now? - Yes, so we're working on something called a click to call feature in sales like you. So which is basically a wipe call. So the idea behind coming up with this feature was that in everyday day-to-day business, customers and businesses need to be close together. The same way as product teams, we have to be close businesses and customers have to be close. And when that comes up, something that has changed over the years is the way we communicate, the way we connect with people. But one thing that hasn't changed is the personalized touch or the human touch, it's remains the same. Everybody today also wants the human touch. So yes, I can understand that Light Chat also gives that human touch. But phone system gives you a seamless way of giving that experience even it is shorter duration. So that's the idea behind building the click to call feature. So a little bit of promotion here for the feature. - Okay. - We are working on it. It will be available in beta pretty soon. So once that's ready, we can share for beta for everyone and get a good feedback on it. - Let me ask a controversial question there. Like for so many years, we propelled Light Chat in the front so that when we marketed as a product, that's the feature. So now we are not going back to the cards, but we are adding the feature that was considered a little outdated. So is there any reason for that? - Yeah, surely. So just some continuation of my last point. Customer experience is something that hasn't changed over the years. And as I said, the way we communicate might have changed, but the personal touch that we have among one another remains the same. And that's always a high priority when it comes to over any other platform. So especially when you're frustrated, you wouldn't want to go on to a chat, type out to your frustration and then wait for a response. You want to pass on your frustration to another person. So you basically want to take on a call and maybe shout it out to him, which is not ethical, but that's how as humans we are, we also have errors. So in that case, phone system or the call will be really helpful for teams to manage and improve their customer satisfaction ratings. So I believe phone system is not going anywhere and we market it, it's going to be never away. - So if anyone out there that is who are listening to what Anjas said, she basically said, if you guys are experiencing something like your customers are reaching out to your support, but before your support reaches out to them, the customers go to the social media and talk about you. So if you're facing something like that, you should get this feature so that we can address the their query immediately. So that we'll get that good name in the social media. Is that right? - It is right, but I hope we don't get in treats and say a thank you about it. But anyways, as I always say, feedbacks are most welcome in there. I'm always happy to connect with people to discuss about products and get feedbacks. So yeah, thank you for that, Greg. - So as a, like you said, PMOons collaborate with every team. So in a way, I'm not saying in a literal sense, but it's sort of gives a supreme power over the other teams as well, because they are product managers. So like we discussed about what a PM should do. - No, I want to know what a PM shouldn't do. - That's a quite interesting question. But before I answer that, I have another question for you. So this is something that has been running on my mind, I think since I've become a PM, and I think other fellow PMs can also resonate with it. What do others think that PM does? So in your perspective, what do you think that I do from morning 96 in office? Also, please. you're, please post what you're thinking or what the pings usually do. So from my perspective, basically, the do market research to understand how their product or product is in the market so that they can identify what is amazing or what we can refine. Or if the particular product is a market, or something like that, what more we can add. So it's most of the time it's about research. And then bringing the research into a paper and then to the design and into the market. So that's my understanding of what a pings is. I hope. Yeah, I think you've closely watched me. So yeah, so that's that's one part of what pings does. So we also have to collaborate as we said, we have to collaborate with marketing teams with user education teams with developers and building the product. And even after that, so it doesn't stop there to support customers when they come back, check on usage metrics and so on. So I think if you're going to talk about product management, I can talk the whole day. But coming to the question of what pings should and do. So I this is something that I would tell my younger self that learn when to stop thinking or learn when to draw online. Because usually when it comes to thinking about a feature or in the ideation process, we tend to keep going on and on. And usually when we do that, we tend to jump into the vision of another product, which is quite risky. Because the customers that you've attained is for the core values of the product that you're building and not for the value of another product. So in that case, we have to be very careful in going along with the lines of the vision of the product. So something like, you know, you need to create a space for yourself and you know, work within that space. But I don't mean that you know, there shouldn't be innovation definitely. Solutions have to be innovative, but in a manner that they are aligned to the vision of the product you're working for. So basically staying inside the box or thinking out of the box. Yes, exactly. And I think that's why the market area is fine words of it. So I have a subjective question here that might not be relevant to everyone. So all these years as a product manager, in your experience, you'd have identified some methods or strategies that help you enhance what you usually do. So if if there is anything else, if there's anything such like that, the people would be interested in know how, what if there is any strategy or something like that. There are multiple frameworks if we have to go into the theoretical part of product management and or something like we have rise, then we have the weighted average method and we have the value charts. And Moscow is something that I commonly use. So I'm sure others would be aware, but just for the session, Moscow is an abbreviation. So we say it as must features that have to be implemented for the product. Then we have the should features which are necessary for the product, but not right away. You can take some time and then implement it. Then we have the good features, which are these nice to have features for the product, which actually enhances the customer experience. And then finally, we have the don't features or the no features where you shouldn't create those features because they are not in the line with the vision of the product. So these are just a few of the ones that we follow. And I think they are really helpful. It's been helpful for me for more than four and a half, five years of product management. So when you were discussing earlier, you said there are multiple types of PM, but mostly I'm someone a customer centric PM. So how do you reach out to the customer? How does that happen? How does that communication happen? So, yeah, you absolutely right. I love talking to customers and my focus has always been on the customers based. So one way that I communicate with them is through community. So I often go to community forums and have a look at the discussions that they're having, any questions that they've asked because sometimes customers come up with really intriguing questions that make us even think twice as to, wow, why don't we think the first time? So that is one part of it. The other is definitely we drop in support meals, we reach out to customers and have a quick conversation with them. The other thing that I actually follow is I randomly drop into customers website and I start off a chat telling them, you know, I'm mad from the sales IQ team. And this is just to check on how the quality of the product is, if they have any feedbacks. This is something that I learned from my manager. And I think it does give a really great response because it feels to the customer that yes, people are actually looking out for you and you know, they're trying to make the product better. So in case in the future, if you guys see me drop in a message, it's probably just know if sales IQ is working well for you. So how has talking to the customers help you help help you help your design a better engagement or experience designs for them for in the product? Definitely yes, it plays a major role because in the end, you're building the product for the customer, right? And though we are creating the product with all these designs and all the auditions that we have with the market research, in the end, the customer is the one who is going to wear the shoe, right? So it does give us a direct input into the customer's mind as to what he's thinking or how he is pursuing the product. But again, one thing that we have to keep in mind is whenever a customer says he has an issue or a problem, it is not one problem. It may be one of the multiple problems that he is facing or he is going to face in the future. So even when you're coming up with a solution for it, it shouldn't be a one time solution or a feature just for answering that particular problem. But it has to be a wholesome solution so that after two months, he doesn't have to come back to us coming with a similar problem. So that's the way you can bring in stickiness to the product and to the brand as well. So I think yes, customers play a very big role in it. Since we are talking about customer engagement and giving overall best customer experience, then we should definitely talk about your sales IQ, the customer engagement intelligence that let's see that let's let's your customer instantly reach out to your support team. The features it has arms your support team to instantly solve your customer at the link in the chat section. So is there anything else you would add in? Actually, yes. So since we were talking about all about product management in this session, and you also quietly mentioned about us being superheroes. So I just want to address that point because product managers or the product management team is just one team of the entire product core. Right? There are multiple teams that are doing their job. So definitely it is not the product management who is handling everything, but we just add the center place where we drive the team. So the marketing team plays a major role. The user at team plays the major role. The development team are the backbones of the entire product. So every product have their key roles, which if they don't perform or if there's any problem with the product is not going to withstand. So the way I see we are not superheroes. We are just, you know, at the center point where we just drive in people and make sure we keep going to have a better product at the end. Great. So can we open the few in a session now? Sure. Yeah. I think we have a couple of questions. If we have any questions, please drop in the chat section. You want to address this now? Or can we could also support? We can address it now. Maybe a part of the question because it's a very interesting question. So I'll just read it out to you all. We have one of you all asked us a question about I have a customer who is using Intercom. I'm trying to convince them with Zoho, but it's a bit difficult business, similar to Zomato or Talapet. Okay. So thank you for the interesting question and mentioning our one of our competitors. It's also making it more interesting. So one thing that I really see as directly because Intercom has got your own set of features, but I want to know if I can do better. So sales like you, as you know, is part of a complete Zoho suite. So that is one of our biggest bones. So it doesn't not only work standalone, but it makes it more powerful when it's included with CRM, des campaigns and all the other integrations that we have in hand. So when that is all included as a customer engagement platform, it's more powerful because you have an entire customer journey that can happen within under the Zoho. So that is one of the biggest part. And apart from that in with the feature perspective. So we also have certain, you know, features which are a little developer oriented, but I would say versatile features that you can build a way that you want it to be. So it's not fixed. It's not rigid or restricted. But you can build flows. However, you want you can go update data in a third party with a single click from sales IQ. You can automate an entire workflow right from sales IQ. Thank you. So things like those are the differentiating factors that I think can be used to convince customers for trying out sales IQ. So in the end, I would say, let's not convince them. Let them use the product. They would definitely know the power of sales IQ. And maybe then we can talk about the pricing, which again, we are very favorable for. So yeah, I hope that answers your question. But in case you need like a detailed study to-- Well, share your contact with us. Yes. Support him and they'll contact you. We can discuss on it. Fatma asked, why not coordinate with other product managers to try to come up with holistic solutions or features and have a wider perspective? Before I answer that question, obviously, she'll answer that. I want to pitch in saying they do coordinate with other product managers to get it, because I have seen it. So yeah, you're absolutely right. So I'm not sure about the working flow for other teams. But in our product, we have a very open product management team where if one comes up with an idea, we have a brainstorming session where we validate the idea with the data with market research. And with general opinions from the other product managers, we evaluate them. We try to see whether it can succeed in the market or what other possibilities that we can improve in that particular feature. So yes, I think in our team, I think we are really-- You're doing good. Yeah, we're doing good. So yeah, that's how it is. Hope that answered your question, Fatma. And but as in your experience, what is the best and most efficient way to communicate new developments or upcoming developments? OK. So this is something that even we are quite figuring it out right now because recently we had a partner event. And when I was talking to some of the partners, we were able to identify that some of the things that we have to do. So what we basically do here in Zoho is that before we're going to release a product or a feature into the market-- And you're seeing it. OK, yeah. And so sorry, everyone. I think we had some technical issues. Yeah. OK. So a successful meeting is not there without any technical issues. So I think we are successful. So anyway, coming back to the question. So we have a checklist. We maintain a checklist where we have a list of places where we can announce to customers. So our order is basically going with the internal teams. Then we go ahead and announce it to partners because they also play a major role. Then we go ahead with the customers with a selected group of customers like our close beta access. And based on their feedbacks, we again rework on the announcements of the feature. And then finally, we announce it to customers. And even when we're announcing it to customers, we definitely take the marketing team's help. I could. You would be in a better position to tell about that. But we also do a lot of in-product announcements. And I'm sure all of you who are using sales, like you would be very well aware of about it. So that's the way we announce the development or the changes to the customer. Our Pita asked, "Hi, Zoho team. Please provide us session on a PHP interaction integration with Zoho Sierra. I think we'll pass your contact to the support team and they'll be able to do that." So if you have any other questions, yes, I'll share the recording with you. Any other question, folks? I have to wait three months to get to hand for this show. So please do ask some questions. I think that's a little exaggerated. But yeah, I'm happy that we could come into such a session because it's a little different session from the ones that we normally have. But I think I hope this is useful for others as well because generally when it comes to product management, they think it's something that you do within a room. But essentially, it is not that you need to talk to customers. You need to be out there. Listen to them directly and observe them. I think that gives a much wider aspect and a wider perception of how a product can be successful. Great. Any other questions? Raymond asked, "Do you have plans for integration with OMA phone systems?" Currently, we don't have-- because the click to call is something that we've been working on for quite some time. And we are yet to release it. So we don't actually know the-- as I said, the direct impact that's going to cost on customer's. So we're waiting for that. We're going to go ahead with the beta access and again, a promotion. So in case if anyone is interested for the beta access for click to call, please drop in into our chat or you can drop in our mail to my ID and then we can work on it. But currently, we don't because we're focusing on why voiceover-entry protocol. So that's something where you don't need a phone number or an extension, which is usually the problem, or any hardware setup for that instance. So it's just-- you have internet access, your customer's internet access. At the click-off button, you can't talk to each other. So that's the one that we are trying to focus. I think that answers the next question as well, because we are not bringing-- yeah, that is already available with Zoho Telephone, which also has an integration with sales icon. So if you're interested with that, you can go ahead and try it with Zoho Telephone integration within sales icon. Eric has asked, is it possible to request an integration with another software and Zoho flow? I think we'll pass your information to our Zoho flow team that we'll get in touch with you, Erica. Any other questions? Can you mention which question was it? I guess question. Is there an integration with the Ring Central Telephone service? All right. OK, so I'll just repeat what I said. So currently since sales IQ, we are focusing on the YP solution, which is connecting customers without any phone number, without extensions, or without any third parties involved. We do not have any current plans to go with Ring Central, because Ring Central is already available within the Zoho Telephone integration, which is also a part of the sales IQ's marketplace. So I would say no right now. And I hope that answers your question, Mingreg. But as I answered, how do you prioritize development request? And I also talked about this during the session, if you want to give it to a line for that. Yes, OK. So as I was talking about requests can come from different ends. It can be, as he said, a development request. It can be a customer request. It can be a critical issue request. It can be something that we have picked up from the roadmap. So the important part here is to prioritize them based on the value and based on the effort that is involved. So another example of the framework that we were talking about is the value versus effort framework. So in a basic graph, if the value is pretty less, and the effort is pretty high, that is something that you do not want to take. But if the value is something really high, something that would break even the market, and the effort is also equally high, it is something that you can go ahead and take. Because taking risk is also an important part in product management if you ask me. It's not all about being in the save zone. So only if you're innovative and you're able to pick up some risk with validating data, then it will give you some fruitful answers. So there are a few other methods that we discuss about Moscow and rice, which can also be used to prioritize development efforts and features. Great. So any more question, guys? So I would also like to add two points here. So since this is an conversational thing that we're having, and I would like love to have this continued as well. So in case you guys want to pick up some feature and discuss with us, and maybe give your honest review about ourselves, how you think we can even do better, or something that you think that we are doing amazing, you can connect with us in the community forums. That is somewhere, even others can also connect along. Or you can always drop us a meal. You can also connect to us on LinkedIn as well. So from a group, if many people are interested, and then we can move forward with that. So drop our profiles in the comments section. Definitely, definitely. So it could be something like a closed group where we can discuss about the upcoming updates. And if you're interested about it, you can also give in your two cents about the feature. And I think we could have a close-knit connection continuing from this session. So any other questions? I think we have covered most of the questions. [INAUDIBLE] So Sierra, I'm going to put the calendar when the description of this very limit. Yeah, we have a question about the CRM. Sorry, we are not experts in CRM. We'll pass on your contact to the respective team, and they'll get in touch with you, don't. Hope that's fine. Any other question? If not, I think we can wrap up the session. Yeah, I think we can. Hopefully we've answered everyone's question. Yes, really? Yeah. So it was lovely having you on this session. And thank you for your time. And thank you once again for inviting me over for this session. And I thank everyone who is also-- So join you for the session. I hope it was fruitful. You had at least one point to take away from the session. And hoping to connect further. Sure. We'll be really connected all along. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Thank you for joining. Have a good day.