Keep Paddling with Conan O’Brien

you and I are going to be hang out a lot any time you want to hang. I don't think that's true. Yeah. I think I'm going to start any cold calling him. It's true for you. Yeah. So here's the thing. When I come to L.A. Bragg is coated when I let's have it shoot some hoops. That's right. I'm going to drain some trees from 80 yards away. They don't go anywhere near the bucket. No, we're near. I tell you, that's the thing that you can, and then you, and then I'll go to the back alley comedy club with you. I think you would do better, so you would do better at comedy than I would at basketball. This episode is brought to you by Chase Home Lending. Hey, little girl, you look so dapper today. So I was telling Julia one of our producers that this is one of my favorite jackets. Yeah, I like that. So I only wear it once a year on the show. I should wear it more often, but we're get another one. No, but it only comes in gray. No, they come in different colors, but I like this color. Oh, you like the gray. I like this gray. And well, I think it would look good in other colors too. Off camera. Okay. So it gets a lot of wear. Okay, that's good. It's good to know. It's good to know. But it's not as hot as your leather outfit. You got good. Well, these actually, this isn't leather. It's sort of like a faux faux leather. So they're actually more cheesy. They just have a finish. They have a it's a gene finish. It's a sort of a wash that's over. So this is really just a gene that gives the leather effect. Got it. So just so you know, and they're very comfortable. So you don't get the squishiness of the stiffness of a leather. But thank you. Thank you for noticing. You're always put together. So we we've hit a milestone. It is just it's amazing because it went by like that. Yeah, it's been a year since we launched IMO. I know. So we finished our first year. And we want to thank all our listeners, all the people on YouTube who have tuned in. It's so fun hearing your everybody's comments and feedback and, you know, my friends are always texting me with, I can't believe you said X, Y or C. And you run into people all the time. I do because I'm out here in the street. So I run into people all the time who are like, it is a fantastic show. You and your sister are so cute together. We love the guests. And and I also want to thank our staff. Everybody here who helped, we could not do this thing. It is it's been a really neat ride. And and I've said this many times on this show, being 60 years old and being able to learn something completely new around a young group of people where it is it's changed my aging. I feel like I'm aging backwards now that we're doing this. It's the beauty of continued evolution in this phase of life. I say it all the time. It's like, you know, 60 doesn't mean what it used to right when I start counting back to what 60 was. And I think about the fact that Dandy grandma or grandparents were this age when we thought they were old. That's kind of a trip. But they kind of stopped. I mean, it's sort of like they push the yeah, they push the pause button on life once they retired. And I just think, you know, the recreation of self and trying some new things that do think keep you young. Yeah. Yeah. And and obviously we miss mom and and she's not here to see this. But we're doing exactly what she did, right? She retires at the retirement age, waits about six months and then goes back to work. Yeah. Like what are you doing? And she went right back to work right in the same office. And and I think I think that put some years on. But added some years to her life. So she would be proud of of this project. She would get such a big kick out of listening to us. Go back and forth. She'd be sitting in the back over there. Yeah. Yeah. That would have that would have been good having her here in the studio. But you know, this show is a tribute to her. Because of the parenting that mom and dad gave us because of the people that they were. And I think our relationship has always been strong has remained strong. And it's and a lot of the IMOs, the opinions we have come from the wisdom they passed down to us. You know, I mean, it's a trip. People I hear their voices so clearly in my head every day, guiding me and, you know, giving me the reassurance that I'm living life in a way that would make them proud. So it's fun to be able to share some of that advice with the listeners. And hopefully, I mean, that's what we hope is that when you list when people listen to the show, they hear some of what we got to hear, you know, and that it's helping some people along the way. Because that's really the goal here is, you know, to entertain, but to also, you know, share some wisdom along the way. Yeah, it really is. So this is when I'm in the airport or, you know, wherever I am, people stop me. And they just say, boy, your parents must have been really great. And so that's the real. Yeah. That's that's the real tribute for me. And I also want to make sure to thank all of our sponsors this year. Too many to name right now. We don't want to take. But and of course, the show would be nothing without great guests. And we have a another great one for this episode. Yeah. Yeah. Conan O'Brien. I know. I know. I'm at a little disadvantage because you have a terrific relationship with them. And I'm just getting to know them. I feel I feel very special. And Conan is my friend. Yeah, that's so sweet. He's giggling over there. You are my friend. I'm a I'm a I'm a little jealous of Conan because you the way you talk about him being such a nice guy and doing things for you. It just sounds like sounds like me. Are you jealous? And so that's probably why I like Conan because he's a tall friendly guy just like my big brother. He's saying right now. He's probably done a little more for me over the years than you have. I know. I've been busy. I've been busy. I've been busy. Well, let me give just a couple of flowers here for Conan. As everyone knows, he's a television host, comedian writer, producer. He hosted three late night talk shows, a late night with Conan O'Brien, the tonight show, and Conan. And it's currently the host of the podcast. Conan O'Brien needs a friend, which I was one in me, which I have recently learned was the first podcast that you ever did. So he was one of the ones I felt safe with in that early stage. And he will be hosting the 98th Academy Awards. So Conan, come on down. Hey, it's my friend. When you come, came in like, you've got work to do. Yeah, yeah. I just had a lot of sugar this morning. So I think you probably have a lot of sugar every morning. I mean, it's not like you, you know, you know, it's funny. This is a true story. But I have always had a lot of manic energy. And about, I was about 10, 15 years ago, my doctor retired. So I went to see a brand new doctor for the first time. And he's running me through the checklist, you know, of this, this, this, this just wants to get to know me. And he said, he finally got to this one part of the checklist. And he said, now let's talk about drug use. And I said, I, which is true, I'm never done drugs in my life. Never try to drug. Never wanted to get into that. So I said, I've never done any drugs. And he said, let me ask you again about your drug use. And I said, I've never done any drugs. And he said, what about cocaine? And I said, this is true. I said, no, no, no. This is 100% true. And I said, I've never done cocaine. And then he put his clipboard down and he said, this questionnaire doesn't work if you're not being honest with me. And I said, I'm being honest with you with, with you. And he said, I've seen your work. And he just assumed that I'm all coped up. And I'm saying this comes naturally for better or worse. I was born this way. Yeah, this is the way. I mentioned this a bunch, but my dad was a, you know, a doctor and a scientist and maybe after 15, 20 years of being on television, he looked at me and he wasn't trying to be funny. He just said, I think I understand you are making your living off of something that should probably be treated. I said, I love you too, dad. How, how were you when he gave you that observation? Well, I was a, I mean, I think he had seen me do the late night show. I mean, I might have been in my late 40s when he said that. Oh, my God. Yes, this was not something he said to a, you know, this was him looking at the arc of my life and seeing that all of this nonsense that comes out of my head. And the crazy energy in another era, they would have treated me, you know, they would have put me in a special, admitted, admitted me, yes. That's the nicest thing you've said to me in a while, put me in a facility of some kind. But now we live in this weird, it's all when you're born. It's such luck. But in another era, my people in Ireland, you know, standing around and were supposed to build a stone wall, I wouldn't have been helping with the stone wall. Going off to the side, doing bits and going, yeah, I'm done this guy, I'm done that. And they'd be saying, this idiot doesn't do anything. Are you unique in your family? Because you have a big fan, yeah. I'm one of six. I will say they're, my siblings are really nice. They're really smart. They're sweet. They do. They do drugs. No. They do not. I think we all should. But no, they don't. It is, I see a lot of similarities with my siblings. We all have sort of the same stuff and it comes in different versions. They're very creative. They're all really funny. And then I just happened to match this particular time in history when we have television and podcasts and places where people like me can actually do this and put a roof over our head doing it, which I don't think existed. It took just in the last 100 years for this to come along. Well, you said they're all funny. Where does that come from? Were your parents funny? Was your kitchen table funny at dinner time? Yeah. Yeah. Everything starts at the kitchen table. For us, it was Sunday dinners. My mom always insisted that we all eat together. We have a Sunday meal after church. We come back. We sit around this round table and we would have our meal and then people would jockey for who's the funny one at the table and who can really make mom and dad laugh. And especially my dad, when he would laugh, repressed Irish Catholics. And you see this thing that every culture has, what's the key where they're allowed to lose their control a bit? My parents didn't drink. Obviously, there's no drugs. There's no, no one talked about sex. So there are all these areas that are off limits, but you're allowed to be funny and laugh. And you're allowed to eat tons of fried ham. And those are the areas where we're allowed to like let our hair down. And so my dad, when he would laugh, my mom had a great laugh, my dad would like hug himself and he would kind of clap himself and hug himself and rub his hands together and huge fan of you and the president. And I brought him to an event I did once in Washington, DC. And he got his picture taken with you guys and the president was so nice. He, he said, yeah, yeah, I hate Conan. Dad, dad, get over here. And he made it all about my dad. Yeah. And my dad, for the next 15 years of his life, just had the picture with you guys and your daughters were kids that they were in the picture too. And that was something I think, I think he lived in other 10 years because of that. Talked about it nonstop. Oh my gosh. So, um, but so much of my career was I think it all began with trying to make the parents laugh. Yeah. And that's where things start. And you can then later on, it can become, oh, I'm hosting the Oscars or I've got a late night show where I'm doing this big deal or that big deal. But it's really no different. You're still in some way trying to make them laugh. Yeah. You know, and I think just like the two of you, you're probably for the rest of your life, going to be trying to live up to what your mom or your dad would want. And that stays with you. And I'm a big believer in, we lose these people, but we don't lose them. Oh, for sure. They're with you. Oh my gosh. And they're why you still, a lot of people would say, you two are good. You're good. You can let your hair down now. You can, but you are trying to still live up to that standards. And I think that's what I'm trying to do with my parents. Hey, Mish, you remember we used to go on road trips and mom used to meticulously pack the truck a car with plenty of food, like fried chicken. And it never tasted better than in the backseat of a car. Man, with the coming out of the tinfoil, you know, it was really good. And it would pound cakes, cookies, the whole nine. And I remember it would be a treat to even get flavored potato chips because you know, mom would say, let's just get the plain ones. No barbecue, no salt and sour. Not a lot of extras in the Robinson house. Oh, no. But now, you know, the difference is night and day when I travel with my family, what do you think? Yeah. I mean, you know, mom would have to pack for us staying in a place a long time. So it wasn't just snacks for the car because you couldn't just get anything you wanted. So she had to come on vacation with everything she needed for the week, which seemed like a hassle. Yeah. It was like we had the whole trunk of a car was a grocery store. Now, are you particular about your snacks? For example, I like my cheddar cheese, but I want to cut on blade number one. Really? What about you? Yeah. I like mine thin. I like my cheese cuts sliced thin. I don't think I'm that particular. I think a snack is a snack. Well, now when I travel with the family and we book a stay on Airbnb, I have the convenience of having our fridge stocked with our favorite snacks or anything we might forget or don't have. We could have used that when we were little. How about it? As a matter of fact, Kelly always uses Insta Cart when we're on vacation. But with this new Airbnb plus Insta Cart partnership, I love the convenience this feature within Airbnb services to order our groceries on Insta Cart. The partnership allows you to seamlessly book with your Airbnb reservation before or during your trip. I might do some cooking during my stay this time because our groceries will already be there when I arrive, making it feel like home from day one. You're manic, you're silly, but you are wicked, wicked smart. I mean, and so was your family. I mean, I love hearing about the fact that your mom went back to law school. Can you talk about her? Yeah, my mother. She's a badass. So both my parents were the first ones in their families to go to college. They, you know, everybody's got an immigrant story. Everybody comes from someplace else. Yeah, let's say that again. Yeah. Last night, I was trying some Oscar jokes out in a comedy club and I took an Uber home and the drivers from Jordan. And he recognized me and we started chatting. We had the greatest chat on the long ride from East LA back to my house. And just a wonderful talk. And he put me on the phone. He said, can I call my daughter? And I said, sure, she's 25. So he's a Jordanian immigrant. His daughter is taking her MCAT. She's gone to college. And I just was telling him, this is, this was our story too. We came to this country late 19th century. And there's a lot of people not too thrilled to see the Irish in Boston. So my people moved out to the central Massachusetts and worked hard. And I think had good values. And then my mother grew up in Worcester, Massachusetts. Her father directed traffic in downtown Worcester. One of the funniest people I've ever met, remember my grandfather really well, we called him hoover because he knew some dance moves. And so everyone called him hoover after like, and you got none of those jeans. I didn't get those. Look, if I knew I was getting slammed on this show, she would not have been. Okay, you don't have to take that fact. Apparently I do. Yeah, you know, apparently I do. So my mother worked hard and she got a full scholarship because they didn't have her father earned 55 dollars a week. So she didn't have that kind of money. She got a full scholarship to go to Vassar, which was a big deal. And then she went to Vassar. And when she graduates, she gets a full scholarship to go to Yale law school. She goes to Yale law school. She leaves and she goes to a big law firm in Boston. She clerked for a State Supreme Court justice thing, but she also raised this was after she had kids, right? Well, it was before she had, it was before she had kids. And then she just started a law firm when she started to have kids. And then she had to take time off. Because she had a lot of kids. She had a lot of kids come, kept coming and coming. We, I mean, I swear to God, I think she had a child every four months. medical science is still trying to figure out how the Irish can do that. But yeah, I think my brother Neil is 61, it was born in 61, Luke in 62, me in 63, Kate in 64. I mean, no one ever knew my name in that house, you know, and then there's Kate, Jane, Justin, and she went back to work. And while she went back to work after, so how I would say she went back to work when I was about, I want to say nine. I was not happy about that because I love coming home and my mom was there. But she went back to work. But she had stories of the early days, early, you know, 1960s when she is a graduate of Yale law school and she's working at a big firm and she would go to a meeting with other lawyers and then they would take a break to go to lunch and they would all go into the dining room, but she couldn't go in because it's men only. And so I would ask her, do that make you angry? And she said, oh no, it was just the way it was. And they set up, she said, they set up a card table for me. I sat outside and two of the lawyers were very nice and sat with me. And so there was this, I think it gets overlooked sometimes, but there's a thing that happens with people who are on the front line of change. They sometimes you think they're going to be angry. Sometimes they're not because they think, I don't have time for this. That's right. I've got to win. I got to get the win. So she got, she worked hard. She became a partner and I think she was, you know, maybe the second or third woman to ever be a partner in this big law firm. Well, you may make a good point that, and I want young people to understand this because sometimes when change has happened and the younger generation doesn't know what it takes, they can be a bit judgmental about what it took for those to the kind of mentality, the kind of, because there's some young women who say, well, why didn't you speak up and why didn't you use your voice or look at the, an older generation and say that, you know, you're allowing something to happen without understanding the context of the growth. Yes. You know, and I think that's why sometimes we get in the way of change because the younger people want it. Think it should look different. They think the attitude should be different. And you just, your mom knew what she knew, being the first woman, the only woman to ever practice law. Yeah. And then to make partner, you know, what kind of compromises your mom had to make to get there. And she needed the job too. She had six. How many of you all? I don't even know. I've tried to count my siblings and there's just too many. I can't do it. But the, yeah, it reminds me a little bit of that, there's that Jackie Robinson ethos where because he was the first, he felt he had to be completely above reproach in every, I know a little bit about that. Yes. Well, that's what I'm, that's what I'm saying is the, you know, I think I could tell when you and I took a trip once to visit a big giant military base in the Middle East. And I, which is an amazing trip. It was an amazing trip. I could tell that you and your team were being so careful that everything is done by the book that there's no, you know, that if, if, you know, there's no perks, there's no, I was really impressed with that. And I, it occurred to me then, oh, I see, everyone feels we need to be so, so, so far beyond. It wasn't even a feeling it was the truth. It's the truth. You know, I mean, there's absolutely no way that the behavior in this current administration would have been accepted by the first black family in the White House. Right. So fortunately, it wasn't difficult to do because we are those people. It wasn't difficult to follow rules. It wasn't difficult to have high standards. It wasn't very difficult because in order to get where we are, as you're, you've seen in your mother, you don't get here without being damn near perfect. Yeah. We don't, we don't get to fail. Right. Two, three, five, seven times. We don't get to file bankruptcy over and over again and still be considered a successful business person. Right. You know, right. We don't, we don't get to not be at the top of the class. You know, every, every, every I has to be dotted. Every T has to be crossed. And your mom was among the first to begin to pioneer that, yeah, that firstness. Yeah. And I think because they, you know, the big game changer for Irish Catholics in my parents' generation was John F. Kennedy. And you've got this very glamorous first family and their Catholic and Irish. I think that made a huge difference for people in my parents' generation and made a big difference for me because it's, they made it cool. Yeah. They made it cool to be Irish. And then I made it uncool. Speaking of John Kennedy gave us, I took away. Were you a cool kid growing up? God no. How can you ask that? You know, why would you ask that with a straight face? Here's why. Here's why. When I first met you, you were surprised how tall I was as I of you. Yep. In the first thing, I thought, I'm sure he was an athlete in high school and one of the cool kids and funny in the locker room that kind of thing. So I want to give that, tell me what happened. Let me explain what happened. Let me explain to you what happened, sir. I was, my, my height came late. So I was one of those guys who had a growth spurt kind of later in the game. So I recently saw someone found footage of me in when I'm 22, I'm just at a college and I think I look like a 14-year old family. Yes, of undetermined gender. And I look at that person and I think you're 22. So you weren't, you didn't get your height then? No, no, I had my height by then, but I was six four. When I moved out to LA to start my career, I was six feet four inches tall. I think 155 pounds. Okay. Now I ask any engineer who's listening, do the math on that structure. It will collapse. It's going to break. It's going to go down. And if a moth lands on it, it will collapse. So there was no, um, you know, people sometimes say, because I make fun of myself a lot. And they say, well, that's kind of an act. And I go, no, no, that comes from, I think obviously they know now your core personality is formed fairly early on. And then you, you do a little finishing touches to it. But by the time you're 15, 16, 17, it's there. And those were years for me where I didn't feel, I was not cool. I was not a good athlete. Um, my brother Luke, who's a year older than me, it's much smarter than me. My brother Neil was much stronger. And I was just thought, I don't have anything to offer. I really thought that for a long time. And it took me a while. It took me a long time to kind of put it all together, which is why when I say, I find myself kind of ridiculous, um, it comes from a place of honesty. Like that's, that was my personality growing up. Um, and so I did, and I was not, I was funny with my friends, but it was not the class clown. The class clown, I maintain, you know, usually ends up in like a motel shootout, you know, the class clown, the guy who gets up and changes the clock forward and is, you know, throwing stuff out the window. They're in prison soon after high school. Um, I was not that guy. I was joking around with my friends. And then when the teacher came in, I was really quiet. And uh, a nerd. So that's my story. Yeah. And it got it, but it got you to Harvard. Yep. Which is where a lot of funny nerds go. Yeah. I didn't even, you know, the irony is a, as a kid I dreamed about being in show business and I loved comedy. And that's how my dad and I really bonded, you know, you're always trying to like, yeah, I think a lot of boys look at their dad and think, what's the, how do I key into this person? How do I, um, you know, he can be formidable. I'm not sure how I can really connect with this person. And then we would watch comedians together. We would watch comedic movies. And I would see him laugh. And that was where my interest started. And I started doing things, um, and loving the idea of getting to do comedy. And then I thought I'm in Boston, Massachusetts for a crime. Nobody within a thousand miles is in show business. I've never seen anyone in show business. That's not a real thing. I got to find another way. So I decided I want to go to a good college and make something myself. So I'll just become a grind. It's not a glamorous story, but I was a grind. And I was grinding it out in my little room, memorizing things. And I, uh, what did you think you wanted to be? I thought well, I'll be I will be a, uh, serious person. I'll be a, you know, editor of a newspaper or I'll be an academic. What would you make? I was, I was loved English. I was a history and literature major. And I thought, that's what I'll do. So I get to, I achieve that goal. I get into Harvard, didn't think I was going to I did. I think now it's time to become the serious man of letters. And someone said, I'm going to go to this meeting of something called the lamprune. And I said, I've heard of that. That's pretty famous. Yeah. And I said, maybe I'll tag along. Was this first year? This was first semester freshman year. I was at Harvard for two, maybe weeks. And so I went and there's this kooky little building there. And I sat on the floor and they come in and we're all sitting on the floor. And they talked to us and they said, it's very competitive, but you all have to submit funny stuff. And we'll see what happens. And I said, I'll give it a try. And made it through the first cut, made it pass the second cut, made it through some other things. And then the next thing you know, I'm a first semester freshman and I'm on the lamprune. And that's I was hooked. Let me just explain to the listeners. I equate the lamprune to like the Harvard Law Review of comedy. I mean, it is considered very flattering, but it was a it was a huge deal. And so many famous funny people and great, right, John uptight, you know, Robert Benchley and the guys that created national ampune and did animal house. And I mean, it all came all this great stuff came out of the lamprune. And it was unusual to be selected as a freshman. Yeah, I was it was it was a little bit unusual. And then I gave my whole life to it. It was one of those things where I felt like I had a calling. Up until that point in my life, I thought anything that I achieved, this is very Catholic, but I'm sure it's not just Catholic, it's tons of religions and cultures. I thought anything good has to come through suffering. Yeah. So I really suffered to do well on the test. I really suffered. I really suffered. I was had a lot of anxiety. And then I would do well on the test because I suffered. This was the first time I live that I would say, hey, what about this? And people would say, that's great. And I'd say, really? That was easy. That was easy. I had fun. Wait a minute. I had fun. Didn't take a lot of time. And now people are reading it and laughing. And I'm getting that same dopamine hit I get when I make my dad or my mom laugh, what's this all about? And then I was hooked. I mean, I said I don't do drugs, but this is, to me, the most powerful drug. And it goes for all of us, when you find that thing that gives you joy and then you realize that in whatever, hundreds and hundreds of years ago, people thought the greatest thing would be able to turn lead into gold. I think the closest thing I've seen to that in life is when you can do something that gives you joy, but it gives other people joy too. And then someone hands you $20 afterwards a check. I hope it's more than $20. But maybe that's just a little bit more than you'll make for the Oscars. Yeah, probably. I haven't even looked into that yet, but I'm sure I'll lose money. But that is to me, that is magic in our time, is when you can do something that, and you both experience this where, wait a minute, I'm having fun. I'm doing what I think I was put here to do. And other people are thanking me. That's insane. So that, to me, was when I got that first hit. And really, everything has just been an extension of that. When I called my parents senior year and I said I have to give this comedy thing a try. And I talked to them as if I was becoming a monk. I said, look, there's probably no money in it. And they were, no one will marry me. Yeah, no one will marry me. And that was true for a long time. And then, you know, it's really just all that happened then. And then everything else has just been moving the little chess piece a little further forward. And now I'm here talking to the two of you. So that's the miracle of it all. March is when the reset fades and the real momentum starts. If you're building something this year, Shopify helps you keep moving. No juggling, a bunch of logins, no bouncing between platforms. Everything you need is in one place. Even if it's just you, Shopify's tools and AI like Shopify sidekick, act like your back office, helping you go from idea to execution to real growth without losing speed. So think about it. What's the one thing you could put in place this month that would make the rest of 2026 easier for your business? Whether you're just wanting to test an idea out or you're getting serious about launching your own brand, it's never easier to get started. And you can do that on Shopify.com/IMO right now. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Chase Home Lending. When you're thinking about buying a home, it's a major decision, a mix of excitement, nerves, and a lot of questions. I've been there myself. And I know how important it is to have someone in your corner. You know, I was remembering back I could have used some support when I was shopping for my first home. I didn't know anything. I had saved up enough for a down payment, but I didn't have much else to work with. I knew very little about interest rates, closing costs, or even mortgage insurance. I also had very limited knowledge of how to choose the right home for me. 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One of our favorite moves is an extendable dining room table. It's this great walnut color and it's mid-century modern, so it looks awesome in our space. And it even has extra storage in the legs. When we don't need the middle panels, we just slide them out and our space is back to how it was before. For all things hosting, Wayfair delivers high quality customer trusted products for your home so you can host and celebrate without distress. Use filters, customer photos, and more than 20 million verified five-star reviews to confidently find the right fit for your home. When refreshing your home this holiday season, Wayfair delivers exactly what you need. Head to Wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's w-a-y-f-a-i-r.com. Wayfair every style, every home. After Harvard, did you immediately give you a way to have a good friend in school? I knew that the thing I had to do was go out to L.A. That we had to, that I needed to go out to L.A. But not New York. It wasn't a lot of work in New York. There really wasn't a lot of work in New York and a lot of the work was in L.A. And so I said to a really good friend of mine in college Greg Daniels who went on to create, I mean, most of the great TV shows was 25 years, The Office, Parks and Recreation, King of the Hill, I mean co-create that. And he's, you know, just had this huge career. But at the time, we're two pretty nerdy guys. And we were newly 22 years old. And I said, you want to do this with me. And one of the things that was really key was he was Greg's a really funny guy, but he was also like an ethical good person. And I thought, I don't want to go out there without a friend who's with me who I know to be a really high quality person. And yeah, rule number one is gotta be funny. And he's clearly hilariously funny, but also really good work ethic and a good person. So we went out together and, you know, we started, we got some work on a show called Not Necessarily No News, which was on HBO. And this is HBO back when, if you wanted to watch the show, I think in those days, I'd have to tell my parents, you need to go check into a motel. (laughing) Hey, check out my show. What's it on? Is it on NBCBS? Yeah, you need to go to a motel. And yeah, it was like I was working in Pornow or something. We'll explain that up. Anyway, it was, but it was a start. We got started. And then the first time-- And earning a salary, earning a salary right away. 'Cause the comedians we have on and the performers, they all go out, yeah, we do the same thing, but they're struggling for a period of time. We were lucky, we got that gig right away. I knew I wanted to perform, so I started going to do improv at night. Wow. And so I would work in the day and write, and then I would go to these little places where you put a $10 bill in a jar, and then you get up, and you do improvisational scenes with other people. And my first time that I went to an improv class, I noticed, I was looking at everyone else, 'cause it's the same thing if you're an athlete. Whatever you're doing, you look around, and you try an eye-size-up, size-up people, and who's the one who's like, okay, they're good. Yes, they're good. I walk into this place that's on La Siena Ga, the Coronet Theater, and it's this tiny little room, and there's a teacher there, Cynthia Sighetti, and you put your money in the jar, and then you get up, and she had us doing different exercises, and I'm looking around the room, and I'm going, no, no, no, no, who is that? She's good. She's really funny. Her name was Lisa Kudrow, going on to be in France, and I didn't know this, but at the time, she's looking around the room doing the same thing, and she's like, okay, that guy, the guy that's 155 pounds. I was like, how was he gonna ask me? Did you wait a minute? Now, I weighed 156 pounds, and I had a bagel. And so then I started working with her, and we became really good friends, and then I started meeting other people. Then we lost the job that we had, because they headed down the scale, the staff. So I think Greg taught SAT prep, and I went to work for Wilson's House of Swade and Leather. - Really? - Yeah. - And it wasn't even a thing. - It's like, I have to check. - Yeah, they went, no, no, I'm telling you. - Of all the shops, you picked Wilson's House of Swade and Leather. - You know, I'm trying to get-- - I want to give them a plug. I think I went to a temp agency, and they assigned me there, and they didn't put me on the floor, 'cause I did not look like a guy who could pull off any kind of leather. So they put me like in an office situation. And I wasn't too happy during that period of my life, but then we got another gig, and then we ended up on Saturday Night Live, so we moved back to New York, and then I go to this-- - So you end up writing for-- - I'm writing. - And then I'm on the Simpsons, and then I was always the writer who would get up on a table and act things out and make the other writer's laugh. And so when it came time to find someone to replace David Letterman on his late night show, my, I worked for Lauren Michaels, and I give him all the credit, he told NBC. - You thought about this guy Conan, and they said the writer, and with the hair and the weird name. And then he said, you know, I'm just, and they said, "Well, Lauren, if you'll vouch for him, he can audition, and so I auditioned, and I had a really good audition, 'cause I didn't think I had a chance." - Yeah, that's always the way. - And so I thought, I'm never getting this. This is the biggest star on television. Next, you know, I'm gonna replace him, and I'm just this guy who's 29 years old. I'm still, you know, like, oh, there's a, my skin broke out again, it's still happening. And then I just went into that audition and had a blast. - What do you think prepared you? I mean, I think late night talk show hosting is one of the hardest things. I mean, it's just hard being on the show. - I, I think what helped me the most is at the time people said you need to be a standup comic, which I had never done. I'd done a lot of improv. They said you have to be a standup comic to be a late night host. And I found that the improv training was all about looking at people and listening and looking for what's funny organically. So I found that to be hugely helpful. - Yeah. - I've heard you talk about being able to take advantage of all the great luck that you had. And that warms my heart because as a coach and as a player, as an athlete, you're always taught that the most prepared person is also the luckiest. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - It's that old saying you make your luck. I think, first of all, I got just the time in which I was born. - Right. - I am a poster child for incredible luck. I've been very, very lucky and I give it up for that. I also know that I work really hard and I prepare and I try to treat people the right way. But I get very angry when people don't give it up for luck. And I'm also really aware that, you know, as a, you know, what was my path like as a white male coming up in the 1980s, 90s, a lot easier. Than a lot of other people in comedy and probably in any profession. So take a second, give it up for that. Don't have an attitude about it. Be grateful. And then. - And then don't shut the door on everybody else. - Oh no, shut the door. - Shut the door. I disagree completely. Shut that door and nail a shut. Once you get in, don't let anybody else in. That's the message of this episode. Yeah, no, exactly. Yeah, and that's one of the things. I mean, I noticed it today, I show up and you've got all these great young people. There's great music playing. Everyone's, everyone looks like they're, you know, 2021-22 and I get. - Except for Dan. - Except for Dan. Yeah, Dan and listen, you served your country in the Korean War and we appreciate it. 110 years old. But I, but I feel, I get so much energy from young people. And whenever, when I, when I see young people that are really funny, I choose not to be threatened. I choose to be excited. This is, this person, this guy, this girl, this person is great. They're terrific. They really make me laugh. I want to enjoy them. I want to try and help if I can. And just, just anything, you know, people, I know your, your husband feels the same way, but I'm always preaching optimism to my people. And cautious optimism. I always say I'm like a 51, 52% optimist, but I do say the world has always been filled with corbalness, there's always been trouble. And this, when young people preach to me, it's all over or say it's all, it's, it's the end of the world. I'd say you have to understand this is the way it's always been. Yes. And this is how it feels. It kind of reminds me of this great scene in the movie The African Queen, Humphrey Bogart, Catherine Hepburn. They're in this boat. They're lost in the weeds. It's a great metaphor for life. They're trying to get out. He's pulling the boat with a rope. It's covered in leeches. He gets back in the boat and finally, he gives up. And she gives up. And he says, we're never getting out of these weeds with this boat. We're never getting out of here. And they give up and they say, we're just going to die now. And the camera starts just, they kind of pass out. And the camera slowly pulls up. And you see it starts to rain. And you see that their boat is about 15 feet from a massive river. They just don't know it. Yeah. And then the water rises and when they wake up in the morning, they're on the river and they're safe. And I always think about that. I think there've been probably 35 times in my life when I thought-- Dead on the boat. I thought I was on the boat and I'm dead on the boat. I am not going to make it through. I'm not going to get to the college. I want to go to. It's over. Now I'm in the college, but I'm not going to-- I made that but I'm not. gonna get the career, then you get part of it. Oh no, I've got this late night show, but critics hate me. Uh-huh. And everyone says this was a mistake. This kid who gave him this job. There's no way I'm gonna make it. Everyone's saying you'll make it a few months, but then you're out. And then I make it past that, but then later on I get the tonight show and I think now I'm in good shape. Nope, that blows up. And I thought, now it's really over. No, it's not. It keeps happening over and over and over again. And then it's just learning to roll with it. To roll with it and say, "Okay, what's my next opportunity? Reset, recommit, and look for the next opportunity." And that is something I try to impart to my kids. My mom really like meeting you. Oh, that's nice. She really like meeting you. So we, you know, and I used to, I live a train ride away from her, so I visit her all the time and we've talked about, "Oh yeah, it was really fun getting together and seeing, but that Conan, he was just such and nice, so you should know that." Oh, well, that's huge for me. That must have helped you land a beautiful wife. I don't know what I did there. I just got, yeah, my wife lies is pretty incredible. How'd you guys meet? We met. I was out doing a field piece. And how those work is, there's silly idea. I say, "Okay, I'll do it." And then I show up some place and we shoot cameras out. It was, were you in it? I was in it. It was a bit where it's a long story, but there was a really, we decided to be very funny if I went to a top advertising agency and pitched a terrible idea. I just love that I was, that I was, and, and, you know, my favorite spot is me being very confident about something that's really stupid. And so I went, and so it was my idea, most of my idea was someone else's idea, but my job was to go in there and go, "Let me tell you something." And these are the, these are the people that do like, you know, air Jordan ads, the best of the best in a room, and I'm supposed to go in and pitch them the worst idea and have total confidence in it, and almost treat them with contempt if they don't get what I'm saying. So I go into this room, and I start doing my thing I do, and I do one person, one person, and then I start talking to this woman, and I immediately stop being funny. And I just start saying, "Oh, so, oh, okay, so you, and they did you write a, so, oh, I see, so you got your degree and, huh?" And then she went, "Yeah, and I was like, no, no, we'll see." Yeah, but what I did was I studied this, but then I did that, and we were just talking about the most mundane stuff. It wasn't comedy. I wasn't even trying to be funny, and my producers are, they got the heads of sets on. What is happening? What's he doing? What's he doing? This is death. What's he doing? And then we chatted for a long time, and then I finally, I finished up the segment, and then I, my head writer Mike Sweeney, who's still my head writer, and working with me on the Oscars, and does an amazing job. But he was like, what was that all about? And then I said, I don't know, but maybe we should get everyone's contact. And he said, why would we need their contact information? And I said, I don't know, editing? He's like, that doesn't make any sense, editing. What are you talking about? But the next thing you know, we just start, it's, we just start talking on the phone. So we didn't even have a set, we didn't, well, that's not even a date. We were just mad. And then I just, we just talked on the phone. How were you? I was, I'd be 35. So what? I was no spring chicken completely ruined the bit, because they fell in love. They sell it to fit, but you know, it's great. You can look it up. You can say Conan meets his wife, Conan meets Liza. And you can see me, I look still like a, you know, now I, I'm 35. So I look like a 20 year old girl. And, and I'm now going, oh, hey, how are you? And you can see us talking to each other. And it's online. And I never watched it, because I know what the real experience was. I don't want to see it. But we ended up, you know, dating. And then we got married and kids. And it's been, I think we got married in 2002. So I didn't go to a good school. I can't do the math. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not even trying to meet story. It's a great, yeah. And it was really nice. And, you know, it's crazy. Liza's mom watched it at home. She stayed up and watched it at home. Her dad was like, I'm going to bed. I don't need to see. And she was like, our daughter is going to be on national television. The bit's airing tonight. He didn't know anything about us. You know, we hadn't even shatted yet. We had met, but that was it. We hadn't even talked on the phone yet. But Pam, my wife's mom, she stayed up and she watched it. And in the morning, she said to Jake, unless that guy's an ax murderer, he's going to be our son-in-law. And they said, she said that to more than one person. And they said, what are you talking about? That TV show host who had a brief exchange with your daughter is going to be your son-in-law. And she went, I just think that's what's going to happen. Wow. And happened. She knew. She knew. And I know that Liza just lost. Yeah, just lost her mom. I'm sorry. But, well, you guys have been through it too. It's just one of those, it's too profound to even contemplate, but I think that is some consolation is we, these people are with us, they're in us. We didn't lose them. And I really believe that. And you don't even have to be spiritual to believe that. They imprinted on us and they're with us. So you're always going to have your mom. I'm always going to have my parents, Liza's always going to have her mom. They live on through us. We just lost Catherine O'Hara, who is one of the, you know, maybe possibly one of the, I mean, not possibly, but one of the great, great, great, great comedic actresses of all time. And, at the same time, one of the best people, just a lovely, lovely person and talk about walking the walk. She really showed up for everybody. And Martin Shortz gave the eulogy and he just said she's with us. We didn't lose her. She's with all of us. She imprinted and her work is with all of us. And so, that's what I take away from. Yeah. And sometimes I, I literally, my mom comes out of my mouth. You know, and I'm noticing it more and more when I say something. I was like, that was mom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I even, I hear it. I was like, oh my god. She just, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, um, well, I want to talk about the Oscars because you said something right when you came out that you went to do, you went to a comedy club to try something out. Can you talk about that whole process to somebody like me who's sort of not in the, and, and probably are listeners who don't get a chance to talk to someone. If you explain to me how to be an athlete, then I can do that. If you would work with me for a five year period, listen, I'm, I love developing talents. Okay. Well, I have no a talent in that area. So good luck to you. But, um, I have you making shots in. Oh, really? Two weeks. Yeah. Two weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really. I like to be that guy that's way, way outside, uh, taking up crazy three point shots that don't go near, but with total confidence. I love to shout style stuff out when I'm doing it. And a freeze. And yeah. And, and then freeze and do that look of like deal with it. And it doesn't even hit the rim. It misses the back. Okay. That's the next bit. That's the next bit. Yeah, that's it. Where you have a coach who's working with you for weeks to get you to make it. That's all you have. I did this. I did a thing with, um, Magic Johnson. We shot a thing where I think we played a game of horse together. And I'm just being such a clown. Um, and, but he was so funny, making fun of me the way I shot the way I moved. He starts to imitate me at some point. It was, that was a dream come true. Um, the Oscars, uh, one of the, there's a lot of different parts of it. And you start thinking about different bits. And what could we do for pre tapes? What could we do? What kind of production number could we have? But you're always thinking about jokes. What could the jokes be? And you really want to test them. And one of the ways to do that is to go out to clubs. And what I like to do is go way, way, way, start way far out. So we went to Covina, which is way out there. I mean, I think I was driving for almost an hour, got to Covina and you go into a club and you're a surprise and then you read a bunch of Oscar jokes. And it's fun because you make them part of it. You say, look, if you guys laugh at a joke that isn't good, that might convince me to do it. And then I'm going to die on the Oscars, so don't do that to me. And they're laughing at the part where you're not even reading the joke. I love that. And I've gone to a couple of clubs like that. I did one last night and you just go way out there. All of them are the same. They're the same in that you're in some back room or an alley standing around with other comics. And you, this is the last time I've learned again and again and again, which I actually find kind of filled with hope, which is you think you've gotten to this other level, what's it? I'm hosting the Oscars. And I'm going to walk out at the top and have a tuxedo. But I'm in Covina in an alley. And I'm hanging out and someone's got a ventriloquist dummy. And I'm waiting for my, you know, I'm waiting for my turn to go out there. Did you? You did that. No, I didn't. You did that. I did not. What? I don't know what I thought. Craig loves whole. Ventriloquism. I honestly, I swear to you. I swear to you. I don't trust you. You're too funny. We've been talking about this episode after episode. You don't. I do not. He is, I think the last person who believes that ventriloquism is a lost. Is an under you to bring it back. Vehicle. When you see a good ventriloquist, it is really funny. How about it? And I'm going to sign with you when you see a really good one. It's really funny. It's so funny. See? Okay. Did you put it up to this? No, I don't know. Listen, I might say something. I don't know anything about this. Your link to ventriloquism. I swear to you. I swear to you. I would tell you right now that no one said, see, yeah. I did not do that. I just mentioned like, that's how kooky it is when you're in the alley. And I love that. I love that you. It's this constant dance between put on the tuxedo and you're in an alley in a t-shirt and jeans. Do your nerves get, I mean, I mean, I watch you walk on stage to this audience of every famous person on earth. And you know, they're not a regular audience. They're not a regular audience. They're nervous. They're looking at themselves. They're very self-involved. They're very self-involved and self-conscious. And you're out there to be funny. I mean, does that change the nature of it? It's very different. Yeah. It's a very different audience. Like when we would do the White House correspondence dinner and I did that once under your administration. And I remember, I got to sit with you and it was really fun because you were so nice to me that night. We're sitting up on the day. But that is not a normal crowd. That is a crowd of people that think they're the coolest people in the world. And they're there. They're thinking a lot about their own world. And you need to be funny, but you can't act like you know too much because then they'll resent you for that or think you don't belong. And so everything is this incredible long period of preparation to gauge what's going to work in that room that doesn't go too far this way, doesn't go too far that way. And I've talked to your husband about this. They make you follow the leader of the free world. He goes first. Right. Really? And kills it. And then before. Well, usually they don't. Yeah, well, I know that the format yeah, yeah, usually works well in the best. The president we're discussing. I'm usually good at that. And then he would finish like drop the mic crowd going crazy and a voice would go, Well, I'm a criminal Brian. And you're like, well, that's it. And you're walking up and you see people like, what? Who would go now? And so you got to wade through that a little bit. But it's all calculating for what's the assignment and the assignment is with the Oscars like the White House correspondence dinner is think about that room and calculate it's not you're not at a club where they are there to get a drink and then suddenly you pop up and they're really thrilled. Yeah, they're not, you know, if you go to a high school and they're just losing their mind that you show up, that's a very different crowd than now. I'm going to speak to a bunch of, you know, a list people who don't really like to give it up for anybody. But it's all just a calculation. You got to calculate and then have fun. Do you like that risk? Does it feel like, you know, I know how to be I know like this is you on some high wire. Do you feel does it? I like free. I like, I think I must like that to some degree because I keep signing up for things like that. And so that's a problem. And when it's three o'clock in the morning and I can't sleep, lies as like, maybe we don't do another one of these. But I do like, I think the trick is to figure out a long time ago with I'm having a good time. It thinks tend to go well. Yeah. It's almost unheard of for me to have a really good time up in front of people. And people afterwards say, well, that was awful. Yeah. If I'm enjoying myself. So I just keep trying to think of things. I want to tell a joke. I really like. Yeah. Now they may not like it. But if I really like it, you'll crack yourself up. I will crack myself up. And then I'm like, okay, well, you know, this job didn't pay much anyway. So I had a good time. And that's kind of my mission is I want to think of things and do things that I enjoy. And I think instinctively we like to watch people having fun. We like to watch athletes who are having fun. You know, they're really like when they're playing well, they're enjoying themselves. It's fun to play at that level. It's fun to give a great speech. It's fun to be up in front of people doing what you feel you're put here to do. So that that part I really like and it's just doubling down on that. How do I figure out? And if something starts to develop and I think I don't really like doing this kind of don't do it. Do you feel like comedy is more fraught these days? I mean, it just, you know, yeah, I think it's talk show host or not. Yeah, I mean, I obviously I friends with the other the hosts. I'm not a one of a late night host anymore, but I'm friends with them. And I think they're all very talented. They're really good people. And they're in a tough situation because of your job is to go out and talk about the news every day. And I was never you know, strictly a comedian that live off the news or did, you know, I usually try to find things that were silly and funny outside of the news. But we also had to do the news. And things are so divisive right now. And I think it's got to be just a really tough task. And I do have empathy for people who are trying to figure out what's funny in this because I know just as a citizen, I get up in the morning and I look at what happened in the news. My first instinct, I like to be funny, but my first instinct when I read the news is nothing here gives me joy or is making me laugh that hard. And that makes me think of ideas outside of the news about everyday life or something. There's a weird ad on TV that cracks me up. Those are the things that I probably look for. But if you're doing one of those shows, how do you not talk about it? And then how do you not wear your heart on your sleeve and maybe get mad or, you know, so it's difficult. It's difficult. On our show, we have an audience question, a listener question, but before we get to the listener question, I need some development. You've been in the podcast business for a long time. It feels, well, actually, no, not that long, but yeah, I guess kind of longer than IMO. Yes. Okay. Yes. Any tips, any best practices? What is it about the podcast that you like doing that might be helpful to, I won't say young, but fledgling podcast or like yourself, you are younger than me. No, I'm older than you. Yeah. He's my older brother. Yeah. He said older than us. He's an old man. I was probably on campus when you were on camp. I was probably over in the gym playing your basketball team when you were a freshman. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm older than you are. So you were in the gym playing real sports when I was in a, you're at the lamppoon. I was in a, a weird castle on Auburn Street thinking of something weird and giggling. Yeah. And I probably would have preferred to be over there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's incredible. I thought you were maybe 32 years old. Oh, incredible. Yeah. Thanks. And a ventriloquist. But. Butting venture. Ventriloquist. I'm with you on that. I'm going to help you. I'm going to find you the right dummy. I'm going to get you a good one. I'm going to teach you too, because I want to see you do it. Please. I think, oh, I mean, I don't know the answer. I know it works for me, which is, and you're doing it, great snacks out there. It starts with the snacks. It ends with the snack. Okay. Don't let this one too many kale chips, you know, you got to have some good, and then some of them have to be bad for you. No kale chips. No kale chips. No high fruit toast. High fruit toast or that. You got that. You've got good snacks. It's a really good vibe here, like it's fun to come here. And I think if that's a big thing, you want people to come into the store and want to walk around and check stuff out. And so that is all working. And you to know each other so well, you can finish each other's sentences, and there's a good bond here. So that's all good. And to me, it's like, I don't, I mean, I think I'd be a fool to give you guys any advice on what to do that you're not doing. I mean, it'd be nice if I got an expensive gift on the way out. I'm just putting it out there. I'm working on that. Okay. I mean, like a watch. Okay. Good watch. All right. Like a Patek Philippe watch here. You can have those. That watch weighs more than I do. I could drive that watch home. It looks like a car. No, I, I, I think, I mean, it's, it's all about enjoying yourself. Again, I'll go back to that same thing I said about the word show or doing a nightly show or anything else, which is talk about the things you want to talk about your passion about. I think passion and authenticity works better than anything in this format. And you're doing it. So I don't, you know, other than stop lying about your age, come clean, you are a 32 year old man. I am. You were born in 2005. I am 63 and soon to be 64 in April. April. Wow. Wait, wait. What's your brother? April 21st. I'm the 18th. I'll be 63 on the 18th. Yeah. I like an April birthday. So do I. I like it. Why? What's so good about it? The way from the holidays where when you get gifts, it feels good to get. Yeah. Also, I grew up on the East Coast. Okay. You guys, I know Midwest. It's starting to get nice. Yes. And so I always associated my birthday with the sun. Wait a minute. The sun is out for the first time in nine months. And there's a little bit of joy and some birds are chirping. I like that. The smell of grass. Are you into horoscope stuff? Do you do? I don't know. I'm not at all. I thought you were going to sleep. I'm not. Well, all these young people are. So I probably know more than it because it's all about, Oh, you're a Leo rising in a. I know. I know to sleep. And I'm like, what? No. And then I ask them, they'll say things like, Oh, that's so aries. And I'll say why? And they'll say, Oh, because, you know, aries is, you know, loves a challenge and loves to push themselves and is a ray of light. And then I'll read, well, what's a tourist? To really challenge themselves full of goodness and light, and you're like, well, it's awesome. And then if you say something else and they said, Oh, you must be a cancer moon. Yeah. And it's like, okay. So now there's something for every aspect, you know, because there's moons and there's your sleeping son. What are these? It's only 12. It can't be that everybody can't read. Well, we just eliminated your entire staff. I know that. They're listening right now. They don't get it. And they also like manifesting everything. Well, that's Oprah's fault. We blame Oprah for that. You can manifest it. I can manifest all day and all night that I want to be an amazing basketball player. It's not happening. It's not happening. Or I like to be a male model. I'm going to manifest it. Not happening. There's so many things that I cannot manifest. Right. Right. Well, let's get through our listener question. Okay. Yes. Get some advice. My name is Jake and I'm from Indiana and my question is, how do I overcome feeling lost in my career? I achieved my childhood dream job at 21. I had worked for it since 5th grade. But then I decided I just didn't like it enough to do it forever. At 25, I switched to a new job with good opportunity, but it's far from home where I'm originally from. And I don't want to be here forever. I'm now 26 and I don't know what I want to do. I don't love the idea of going back to school because I'm not sure there's anything I'd love to study full time. I have ideas, but nothing concrete. And with this constantly evolving world, I feel stuck lonely and depressed as a result. Help. 26. Right up your alley. This is what we were talking about. I know. I mean, this has been a big theme of this podcast, not through design, but it just happened. But, you know, in the brief description, you listen to what Jake's achieved already and it's really good, you know? And this is just one of the things that takes a long time to figure out. I do think that we're in a world now where you take constant snapshots of your life. And if the latest snapshot doesn't please you, you think things are really dire. And this is called being 26. I mean, it sounds to me like Jake is kind of ahead of the game, has already had a lot of success, has options and now is wondering what to do. This is a feeling you're going to have now and then it's going to go away and you're going to have a period where you think you're back on track and then it's going to come up again. And this feeling will revisit you and that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. It means you're a person. And we all have that and it's anyone who looks at you and thinks, well, she doesn't have any problems. She's a former first lady and she's just, she's got the world by the tail and it's just, you know, doesn't understand that you can have a really bad Thursday. You can have a really bad October. You can have a bad year. You can have a bad two years, you can, I mean, that is called being here. That's what, and no one escapes it. No one gets out of it. And I think young people like Jake put so much pressure on themselves and they forget that sometimes treading water is just fine. That's, you know, not every day has to be a sprints to the finish line. You can have periods of your life. I've had many of them where I think I'm not really getting anywhere. I'm treading water, but I'm not drowning, you know. So I think try not to be too self-critical, try not to be too tough on yourself and appreciate what you have and what you've already achieved and know that also 26, you're a baby. That's my answer. It's a great answer. It's spot on. And Jake, it's like 26 is, if you're lucky and luck has a lot to do with it, with this generation, they're going to live until their 90s, you know, assuming that we continue to have good health care, which this generation should care about because that's going to play a role, but science is definitely on their side. We've learned a lot, you know, people are healthier, they're living longer. So let's just say if Jake is lucky, he's going to be here until he's 90. Yeah. Now, that's like, I can do that. That's 70 more years, 70 more years to live a life and to figure it out. So the 20s and the 30s, and I would even say now the 40s, are the period where you aren't going to know. I mean, they're a handful of people and they're rare that pick a thing at 18 or 22 and they get it right. It's their passion. They're good at it. And then there's a job. Yeah. Right? Yeah. That's not the norm. You know, that's the exception. And again, with social media, he's probably seeing some of those people post, look at me living my best life at 26, I've already a millionaire and I've done this and I have a boat and I said, you know, that's not the norm, you know, it wasn't for me. Also people don't always tell the truth. That's right. That's absolutely right. That may be someone else's boat. Exactly. I've done that. I've often taken photos of boats and said, check out my boat. That's right. I don't have a boat. That's right. You've often done that. No, I'm just not kids. I don't know. I'm going to start doing it. I'm getting in the idea that that's going to be cool. But no, I think that's, that's, people, they're going to be many lives, many, except if, you know, and that's what you want out of life, you know, you want to keep evolving. You want to keep trying on new things and you know, I certainly did that. I thought I wanted to be a lawyer, went to law school, wrong about that, didn't like that. That felt a little shocking all that debt and I was like, "Damn, I should have checked to see if I liked law before I did it." But I didn't. And so I left the law. And thank God I did because it wasn't the profession for me. Thank God I had parents who didn't care about that and they encouraged me. And my brother, we went down a whole, should have been a certain career path. And entered into it and said, "Whoa, this isn't me." And so I had to redefine it. I had to start looking around asking questions, exploring, trying on new things. And that's when I learned that I love service. And I actually like working with people. I don't like reading documents and just writing memos. I like sort of living in life. I learned that about myself. And if I stayed in the law firm and become partner, I wouldn't have, I would probably figure that out because ultimately you do have to wake up. Even if you pick a thing, I've met people who have been in a profession their entire lives. Just putting up with it because it paid the bills. And then at 60 or 70, they find the thing that they care about. The work is waiting for you. That work of figuring yourself out. It's waiting for you. He's probably in it right now. He's in it right now. You're not even aware. Sometimes I'll talk to one of my kids and they'll say, "Oh, I wasted time today. I've got this thing to do." But I didn't really, I didn't make a lot of progress on it today. And I'll say, I have found that often you're working and you're figuring things out when you don't even think you are. Because we have, you know, front part of our brain. And then you have a part of your brain that's chewing on things while you don't even know it. So, Jake might be figuring a lot of stuff out right now. It's crucial where he realizes, "I want to be an astronomer." But that's still a year from now when he has that revelation. But it is working on him on some level. It's funny you say that, Conan, because I was just watching something and I can't remember if it was PBS or it could have been on social media. But Neil deGrasse Tyson, the renowned scientist who is very entertaining, but I really enjoy him when he talks, I listen. And he said something that I had never heard before that procrastinators are usually highly intelligent. For the reason you said that they procrastinate because they want to give their brain enough time to come up with the solution. And like you said, this could be happening with Jake right now. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's true. So hang in there, Jake. And you know, my sister and I talk about this all the time. Try stuff. Try stuff to find. Find your passion. And sometimes you don't find your passion, but you'll find something that's pretty interesting. Yeah. And there's no, I think a lot of young people don't realize that they have more room for error than they think they can. You can try something and wipe out or it just doesn't go anywhere. No one's paying that much attention. And no one later on is going to present you with, hey, wait a minute. I know you're a big success now. But remember when you tried to open that dry cleaning business and it didn't work 35 years ago or whatever. No, that happened. I got out of it. I paid my debts and then I tried this. Yeah. Once you figure out what it is, you're not penalized. No one, there's not a referee there watching blowing the whistle saying, nope, you're out. You just made a mistake. Yeah. Life's over. It feels that way, but it's not happening. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point. Well, speaking of evolving and hopefully that helps Jake, you're still evolving. I mean, did you just have your acting debut? I mean, I watched if I had legs, I'd kick you. It was, it's intense. It's intense, but so good. She's, I mean, Rose Byrne is phenomenal. She is amazing. Yeah. She's absolutely spectacular. And so, yeah. How was that for you? I mean, was that your first time at any point in your series? Yeah. It was a serious role. They sent me the script and I said, well, this is a great script, but this isn't really what I do. This guy's the complete opposite of me. The director met with me, Mary Bronstein, who wrote it, directed it. And she said, I really want you to do this. And I said, I don't think you should want me. You should get someone who really knows what to do with this. And she said, I think I really do think it's you. And I said, okay, I'm going to try, but I give you permission to fire me at any point and we'll still be friends. And I said, if I'm not, because I love Rose Byrne, I don't want to let her down. I don't want to get in the way of this amazing movie. Fire me, fire me, fire me. And even if you shoot with me and you want to cut me out, cut me out. Yeah. No hard feelings. So, but again, I did, I worked on it. I thought about it. A lot. I worked on it. I work. You were good. You were incredibly believable. There was no sign of regular cone. Well, here's the disturbing part. The guy I play has no empathy. Everyone hates him and wants to kick him. People were just so mad at my character. And it's worrying me that that's inside I may have let out the real me. Yeah, yeah. And it's in there. And so, but it was it was a real challenge, but I would and it was scary. But again, going back to, you know, the the question we just got, I've gotten to a point in my life where I think give it a shot. There are things I know I shouldn't be doing. If someone said, Hey, fly this F 16 fighter. Gee, I've never done it before. But, you know, no one's going to penalize me if it doesn't work out. Yeah, you'll be killed. You might kill other people. I know there were a lot of things I shouldn't just give a try to. But this one, I really went off the belief of the director. And it was a lot of fun. And I'm really proud of Rose because she's nominated for Best Actress. She's a nominator. You've got a pregg is not a pop culture ready. That's not true. That's not in this job where pop culture is you know, you've got to watch. I mean, you do what do you what do you watch? Turner classic movies. Oh, okay. All right. I watch Turner classic movies. See, listen. I like watching movies. It's hard to watch these new series that have part after part after part. I just you can't keep up. And then you know, I have a, you know, I've got a job I work for the coaches association. I'm coaching my kids teams and I'm doing this podcast. I don't have time for just, you know, real housewives, real housewives of Brooklyn. I don't have time. Is there a Brooklyn house? Yeah, there is. There is not. It's New York. It's not Brooklyn. Oh, well, that bet they always. This is what I'm dealing with. I bet they all know they don't. Is there real housewives that in the island? You should check that out. Is it really? No, I just made it up. Do you have to recuse yourself when? No, because I really have no power in this thing. I'm just, I'm like the cruise director on the boat. I'm not the captain. Okay, steer it. Okay. My job is to get everyone to play a little shuffle board. Yeah. Get them drunk. And then, you know, hope that we don't hit anything. But that is my job. So no, I don't have to recuse myself. I'm allowed to be really excited should things work out for Rose. But if not, you know, she's still to give an amazing performance. Yeah. Well, it's been great having you. It's been lovely. Yeah. Again, these things are what a joy honor to talk to you both. And, um, like what? And it's always a joy. Really, really good time. It's great to get to know you more. And thank you for doing. So you and I are going to be hanging out a lot anytime you want to hang. Yeah. I think I'm going to, I'm going to start any cold calling hands. It's true for you. So when I come to LA, when I come to LA, let's shoot some hoops. I'm going to drain some threes from 80 yards away. No, we're near. I think you would do better. You would do better at comedy than I would at basketball. That I know way. Would you, would you teach him how to do venture? I'm going to, I don't do ventriloquism, but I will get, I will get a person to teach you ventriloquism, but we have to get you the right dummy, too. It's got to be a good dummy. No way. Surprise. Why don't you do the honors? Do the honors. Look at this. Oh my goodness. You guys are too much. Can I just say, do you see? This is a beautiful and horrifying. At the same time, this dummy has had very bad work done. Look at his hands. His hands are huge. Yeah. This is the nightmare they will never end for me. I'm probably, I'm going to be trying to do the Oscars. And I'll stop because this face, we'll be looking at me. Could you see if we were there in the front row? Put them in the front row. We'll put it right next to Timothy Chalamet. And echo you. Yeah, yeah. Hey, Cowning. Cowning, you have fun up there. Get some federal material, Cowning. He's gonna steal the show at the Oscars. Yeah. This is a really Tony dummy. It is. Well, it should go on your lap. It's on my lap. Oh, OK. Well, he's a basketball player. Get it. He's the best football player. This is perfect. [MUSIC PLAYING] This episode is brought to you by Colorguard. I knew that I shouldn't delay screening for colon cancer. And Colorguard has made that process 1 million times easier for all of us. I just answered a few questions about my age and medical history. And once their license clinician determined I was eligible, they issued the prescription and the Colorguard plus kit was sent right to my home. No doctor's office visit necessary. For me, there was just immediate relief in getting it done. It cost me $0 with my insurance. It took me truly 15 minutes. And now I can rest easier knowing I screen properly. 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