The Bill Simmons podcast is presented by PayPal. We're also brought to you by the Ringer podcast network. I put up a new rewatchables on Monday night. We did Ali, Will Smith, Michael Mann, our ninth Michael Mann movie that was me and Chris Ryan and Ben Lathen. Next movie we have, it's the 30th anniversary of a Ned Burns movie called She's the One that is a very important Gen X movie, and we've been talking about doing this forever. So it is me and Sean Fantasy because it's the Long Island movie and a special guest who's not on the podcast too often. So we are doing that. That is on Netflix if you want to watch that one. And then the next movie we're doing after that is Hitch with Will Smith, which is also on Netflix. So there you go. You can find this podcast on Netflix. If you do Netflix has my list, if you just click the my list every time I have a new podcast that will pop on to your Netflix algorithm and a much more exciting way. So learn to pass that along. I also have a podcast coming. We're going to go live on Sunday on Netflix. Not sure the time yet, but stay tuned for that. And I think I'm only doing the Sunday podcast, probably taking a couple days off next week unless something crazy happens, you know, like a wide-learned straight being postponed, which we're going to talk about. In one second, with Joe House, House tonight, we talked about Guay at the top. We talked about Jalen versus Analytics. Could Joe LNB be traded and we didn't even want him and then we did a whole mailbag and they'll all of that is coming up next right after we take a break and here, ProJet. All right, House, this part of the podcast is 1215. We just finished our podcast and then as we finished, Gahau told us that there was breaking news in the NBA. It was the Toronto Raptors saying that their trade for the quiet, for Guay Leonard is on hold, according to the statement, they said the NBA League office informed us that as a result of the ongoing investigation above in the Quippers, we would assume the risk of any potential outcome of the investigation impacting Guay. In light of this, we will wait until the League's investigation is complete. The Raptors remain eager to bring Guay back to Toronto and look forward to a swift resolution for our players, our organization, our fans. So we actually talked about this in the podcast, people, I'll just leave it in so we can hear it because conspiracy bill came out. What does this mean? I have no idea. I mean, the League office is doing informing the League office is responsible. How much trade have been a week ago? How much more time do they need? What are we getting to the bottom of at this point, but this seems to indicate that Coy could be suspended. It suggests that there could be Coy consequences. This is assinine. What is the fucking League doing? The League is responsible for the outcome and whatever pronouncement it wants to make. The teams are permitted to do business. If this wasn't a condition that wasn't going to be the League say, you're not allowed to do to trade Coy to do anything until we finish our investigation. Right. Why didn't the League do that? You tell me, what is the point of this communication now? This is ominous. Finish the fucking investigation. I know, but it's independent. July the 9th. Who cares? There aren't any more witnesses to be interviewed. There aren't any more fucking documents to be reviewed. It's been eight months. Eight months of investigate. Ten months after months after months, you don't have many lawyers and how many how much fees is being generated. It's a money grab by this baby. I think it's a money grab who thinks it's a money grab. This is the first time, all of us thought the Quippers were going to get penalized. This is the first time it feels like, Coy might also be punished in this. There's no other way to interpret this. That also really seems out there because the collective bargaining agreement gives the League the right to punish a player for agreeing to an arrangement with a sponsor where the sponsor says, but this means there's more stuff that maybe hasn't come out yet. There's something that there's something this insinuates that Coy could be suspended for a year, six months or whatever, and the team didn't know that when they traded for him. What because they couldn't assume the risk of any potential outcome, it's like the rappers would assume the Clippers risk now, your right Clippers are fine. But now that they have Coy Toronto, we have to be penalized like this has to be Coy related. But what you're absolutely right, what what is the scenario under which Coy is individually culpable for something that that is outside the bounds of the league's rules on this? What did Coy and is this the, they want to do something to Uncle Dennis? I don't understand it. What could he do? Like if the sponsor was Coca-Cola and Coca-Cola has an agreement with the Clippers and has an agreement with the League and does sponsorships and says we also want you, Coy Leonard, to be a spokesperson for Coca-Cola and we're not going to make you come do anything, it doesn't work out. The circumstances don't work out. You know, it turns out you couldn't make any of his appearances. Can they, the player can be punished for that? I think they should go further. I think they should postpone the Jalen Brown trade. I think all transactions should be postponed until we get to the bottom of this. Jalen Brown is back at the Celtics. That would be incredible. I'm rooting for that. This is, I'm really shocked by this. I'm dumbfounded. Capital D dumb. This makes me think that there's a full Quipper statement as well. I hope it says the League can go fuck itself. The Clippers acknowledge this from Mark Stein, our buddy. The Quippers acknowledge that the Coy investigation is ongoing, but we expect the trade to be final as following its conclusion. So was that himself or like on vacation last week? Where was he? Why didn't he tell us? You can't trade Coy until we've finished the investigation. Sorry. But does he not have the day that free agency and, you know, the transaction market opened up on his calendar? As usual. What the fuck? He says. Why are we talking about this on July the last week, getting offers for our 12 NBA Europe teams and didn't realize Coy was traded. This is the Toronto. My bad. The list traded out. We have to assume the risk. This is you assume the risk. It's your risk. It's the league's risk. Eat it dick. Not assuming shit. So we can have Toronto and the Clippers make a deal. Why? So we can have Garland, Wagner, Kauai, Rui, Magayana, keep Kauai, cancel the trade. Keep them. Yeah. They got two first and two swaps. It's a good deal. Wow. House. All right. We'll find out what happened with this. But in the meantime, let's go backwards an hour and 40 minutes to the rest of our podcast. All right. We're recording this on Thursday morning about 10 hours before the big DeBonza Peterson summer league game. I love how every year we forget that summer league doesn't matter. It's one of my favorite things when everybody gets carried away with all of this stuff. It matters because it's our first look and it's our, you know, there is genuine, appropriate excitement. I will say that at least here in Washington, I encourage everybody to keep expectations in the appropriate level like, let's just be calm, cool and collected about it. Remember, poor Alexander Tsar, when he came out and went, you know, over 15 in his first summer league game, not a bust. And whatever happens between Peterson and DeBonza tonight, it doesn't set the, the referendum for the rest of their careers. And by the way, we knew Peterson was incredibly talented and the most talented guy in the class. That wasn't the reason he went second instead of first. There were red flags last year. And, you know, I thought he was one of the hardest guys to peg ever. But man, you watched the summer league games like, oh, no, I've got taken a lot of bullets. I've been catching a lot of strays. He's out. He stopped starting. House. Peterson, and Peterson's going to look great tonight against the wizard. Peterson's going to look breaking news. He might just look great. Like he might just, he might have just gone to the perfect team. Might be the right city regular organization, right coach. And he might be awesome. And everybody knew that that was very possible. All right. I have a whole agenda for us today. I know. Amazing. We're doing more jail and brown content. But not for the reasons people think. We are also going to talk about Joe LNB and whether he might be on another team next year. And then I have a whole mail back for you. But I wanted to talk. The old guys have been watching all this advanced metric stuff coming out of the jail and brown trade. And you know what?
do and I have kind of stradled the fence. I'm a little more advanced metrics friendly than you, but both of us are, I test common sense guys as well. Just deep diving everything from this Jalen trade for the last 10 days, I just can't believe how bad he looks in the advanced metric stuff. And it's almost like I find myself going back over all the games I watched and all the Celtic seasons I took in and all the playoff games and just wondering myself, did I get this wrong? And then I landed on, no, I don't think I got this wrong. I think there are some reasons for some of these stats. You haven't come on and talked about this yet since the trade. Since you're callingoscopy. Since the colonoscopy. Yeah, by the way, thank you for that. Success. I'm glad you made some awareness for colonoscopies, by the way. We've talked about a bunch of things. Go get one. Let that be. As many as you're allowed to get, I recommend them. But yeah, so I test going, going big picture on, as you're watching the dialogue about this, where everybody has now apparently decided. Jalen Brown is actually not an efficient player. There's if he's your number one guy, you don't have a chance to win the title. All that, where do you stand with all this? I mean, right out of the box, I reject the framing. I don't reject analytics. I think they are great. They are super helpful. It's information. It's a really interesting way of trying to measure guys against one another when there's situations and contexts are so disparate. Like how can you measure Jalen Brown's effectiveness against Jalen Brunson's effectiveness? Well, there's some ways to slice it and dice it. All of that is fine. I don't reject any of that, but context is super important. Remember, this Boston Celtics team was in a transition year. The anticipated number of wins. What was their win total? Was it 4141 and a half? Yeah, right. So that's where the markets were anticipating. It was hard to say what kind of season this team was going to have. And then through the combination of Joe Missoula and the front office, I give him credit. And Jalen fucking brown, they won 56 fucking games because he is that guy. He is that dog. He took the standard and made all of those guys. I'm going to say this without trying to disrespect the rest of the Celtics roster in the most recently completed season. But he took a bunch of bombs to 56 wins. And you know how I know their bombs? Because he got rolled right the fuck out of the playoffs. It's as soon as you got into a situation where you were up against a proper test in terms of a team with talent at all levels. And the front court for the Boston Celtics, this entire season was the development of Nemi Esquita. Wonderful. Great job. A plus plus two thumbs up. Shireman Hugo. Right. That's the development development development. Great. That was the point of the season. And then Tatum came back earlier than expected. And immediately remember again, it was just two and a half months ago. Boston was forecasted as a potential team to not only make the Eastern Conference Finals, but to make it to the NBA Finals out of the East right when the playoffs started. They had the second best odds because the expectation around what they were capable of with Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown, a track record of 10 years, a full decade of those two guys kicking ass when they're on the floor together, a slow Eastern Conference Finals, two NBA Finals and the NBA championship that Jalen Brown was the MVP of. So I don't mind at all going inside the box and saying, well, how do we sort of measure the impact going forward? But here's the thing that I ask you, and I wonder about for Celtics Nation, why did they give up on this season? How can you come into this upcoming season when you've done the thing that was most important, which is bring in Mitchell Robinson, an absolute rebounding miracle of a man single handedly contributed that rebounding role to the next to a vaulted them right to a championship. You bring that in, your most dire need. You've addressed it with a guy who's absolutely, if he's helping Tatum, and healthy Tatum. And we know we have 10 years of evidence that those two guys plus Mitchell Robinson, plus whatever else the front office could do. That's a team that looks to me like a possible Eastern Conference finalist, possible NBA finalist. And we punt, what's the, why did we punt? Why did the front office give up on this Celtics team? - There's a lot to unpack here. You gave me a lot there. And I do want to circle back in the events metrics. You're talking about overreacting to a bad result in the playoffs, which I think Minnesota did too. Minnesota did that lamello trade. I talked about it when it happened. They were banged up last year, right? Edward's got hurt right before the playoffs wasn't 100%. Deep Finch Enzo got hurt during the first round. Io got hurt. And I don't, I just feel like they decided, well, we don't have a chance anymore based on what the playoff results were. So we have to take a big swing. I don't agree with it. It's funny hearing people remember what they remember about the Philly series, which basically came down to the three games, game two, game five and game seven. And in game two, Brown and Tatum actually played pretty well. It was the guards. I think Pritchard, White and Vousa Bitch were like two for 20 from three in that game. And we just couldn't hit a shot. The pace was off. Philly was, I think, 19 for 39 from three, they stole the game. It's fine. They're up three one. They go into game five. They're up double figures in game five. Do you remember what happened in the second half of game five? - I don't. - And bead fucking killed them. Oh yeah, that. - And bead killed them. And it came out of nowhere. And it was, you know, this was this crazy thing that got introduced there in the series where all of a sudden you have 2023 MVP Joelle and bead just looking like Joelle and bead again. In the second half of that game, he shoots seven for 10 and four for four from three is 18 points and Max, he's five for eight. And they just played better and they steal the game, right? Game seven, Tatum doesn't play, right? Tatum gets scratched and they do that crazy starting lineup to whatever and I don't know, I didn't mind the way Jaylen played in that game. I thought the reasons they lost the series 'cause White and Pritchard didn't shoot three was, well, the boost of which thing was a terrible experiment. I don't hang that series on Jaylen and all. So anyway, they overreact to it. U.S. why they did this. And I've talked to a bunch of people and I know I've talked about on the part of a bunch of times, but it feels like they felt like there was no going back after Jaylen had a taste of being the guy in the team last year and that whatever they were gonna do with this team this year, with his contract, he wasn't gonna get the extension from them at the end of July and did this have a chance to actually go sideways. And I think whether you agree with it or not, I think they evaluated this as like, this isn't going in the right direction. The Tatum Brown thing's been weird for two years. There's been a lot of dialogue about that about can you play with somebody you don't get along with? I don't know if they got along or didn't get along. I know they didn't hang out, but I also know that they had an unbelievable nine-year run together that they played more playoff games together than anybody. They won a title in 2024. I just don't think this was like a kid, Mashburn, Jimmy Jackson situation. But what I do think is that they were concerned that there was no going back with Jaylen than that after being the guy. And now, hey, thanks for being the guy, but now Tatum is going to be the guy again, and we're not going to give you an extension that they thought it was going to go sideways and they got ahead of it. - Well, that's a good profession. - That's a confession. That means, you know, for all the accolades that we've heaped on the Boston Front Office for a long time, a move like this suggests that they can't, you know, present and maintain peace inside the locker room. That there is an inability to manage your personnel. And it's not new personalities. - It's not a managing thing, though. You're talking about two guys making 60 million a year and the coach who's making 10% of that combined. Like as his voice is only going to go so far, this is a league over and over again when the superstars run the league. And it's a two superstars. But if the two superstars about, so this is the voice thing's important because obviously Chisholm bought the team. He's only in the team for like a year and a half. I do wonder if Wic was the owner of the team and had it sold. I do wonder if he would have handled it differently. And I'm not saying he would have been the hero of it, but would he have been like, wait a second, let's all get together. What, we got to figure that really this is, that's my piece. - And then the people for you for the restaurant concept, but that is exactly what was called for. - What people murdered me. - Who are these people? (laughing) - I enjoyed it so much, but you know. - I was trying to be funny, but it was also true. Like get these guys in a fucking room. - That's right. Everybody get in a room and have out whatever you have to have out. This is a team that's set a standard with those two guys as your focal points of getting to the Eastern Conference Finals impossible.
the NBA Finals every year that the two of them arrived to the playoffs healthy. And this year, it was, you know, it was forecasted to be a potential repeat really out of nowhere. There was no reason whatsoever for the ball. And it really was. And it really was a dopey Phyllis series. There's never been a situation like that where somebody just comes back midway through the series, plays well for three games basically. And then immediately goes back to not being an effective player again. And then they get swept by the next. Well, it was also the kryptonite of the Boston roster because the Boston roster was an indevelopment roster. It wasn't anticipated that it was going to be a team that was going to win between 55 and 60 games and win its division and make a long run into the playoffs. They never achieved by 15. Nobody in the front court. That's why and bead had the success he had. They couldn't defend him. Well, and we could have made three either feet. So the old guy conversation. There's two things going on. The advanced metrics are bad for Jalen. And this is something I've been trying to wrap my head around for a week. I've mailed you. I mailed you. There's 85 guys ever. I went on stat head. Thanks to stat head. By the way, I've always enjoyed it. Great job. Great job. Who averaged at least 28 points a game with a 30 usage rate. And you could put all these different stats like win shares. Borb. Borb is like. It's not nothing. I don't. The thing is I kind of like these stats. I don't think they should be the determiner of a player's value. But it's interesting. Jalen's win shares were the worst out of all 85 guys. And we're talking about like world be free. 1980. I ever said in 05 mark a choir in 1984 like. And he's the worst. And then you go you go to Vorp, which is also not nothing. I don't mind looking at Vorp. Jalen was third to last. And the only two seasons worse for worse than him in Vorp were 2010. Carmelo in 2007. Carmelo. And you look at some of the names in this list house. And it is interesting. It's all these high usage forwards that never were able to really be. Or you can never build a finals team around him, right? Dominique. Adrian Danley. Mark a choir. Carmelo. Alex English. World be free. You could even build a first round playoff team around him. Donovan Mitchell now. But these guys that. You could throw a big burden on them. And you could have regular season success. But as the levels got higher. That recipe didn't work anymore. And I think that's basically where we landed with Jalen last year. We talked about this. Like let's go back to just us playing pickup basketball a million years ago. At some point of five guys. One of those five guys needs to regularly create a good shot for everybody else. Right? Just start there. Jalen was the only guy who could do that on this team. Pritchard once a week. Well, he wasn't an offensive engine though, Bill Simmons. I know. You say you create a good shot. I don't know. The stats don't support that. Yeah. Perfect. So effective field goals down. Well, maybe partly because every time they played anybody, the entire defense was like we got to stop Jalen. He's going to take 16 twos. He's going to get to the line. Let's throw two guys on him. Let's trap him. Let's attack him when he goes to the rim. Like he had a big burden played 71 games. And this is what we've talked about over and over again. Durability. Consistency. And can you be the hub of something bigger, which he did last year. And I can't accept the advance metrics telling me otherwise because I watched the season. Yeah. Well, not only that. Again, I mean this as respectfully as possible. He dragged a bunch of fucking bombs to 56 wins. Like he was a really important part in terms of setting a standard. Those guys, the development of Gonzalez and Shiremen and Peyton just stepping up and Kada. Like this is a team like roster wise that was going to win 41 games. That's what made sense. That was the sensible outcome. And Jalen fucking brown was like, no, I don't accept that. I'm going to go out and again, let's also give credit to Missoula. Because the game plan also called for a kind of, you know, radical, although not that radical under Celtic circumstances way of approaching every game. But they they they see did nothing. They conceded nothing. They went out and played their ass off every night. They gave it all every night. And he took on the biggest challenge every night. Yeah. Yeah. There's a reason that they all were able to collectively elevate. One guy took the lead. He took the lead. He was the leader. So I don't care about the efficiency numbers. I don't give a shit. That doesn't help me understand anything about contextual about what happened last season. Yeah. There's burden and gravity. And there's some things. But he played his ass off on defense, by the way. Yeah. That's why the MVP conversation had him featured, you know, will bond said with, you know, a month left of the regular season that Jalen Brown was his leading contender. Now. Whatever they about. Yeah. They they were first and offensive rating for the entire year. And they ended up second. Who else who else were there elite offensive players of this offense? Tatum played 16 games. Right. Pritchard, who I love. And I actually think Pritchard could go up a level next year. If there's more shots around his way. But I didn't know whether Pritchard was showing up night tonight. He would have games where he just stunk, you know, white was bad. White was bad shooting wise all year, even though there's great advanced metrics for him. And then everybody else, you know what they were getting. I mean, that that tells you. There you go. The best metrics for Derek White offensively were very good. They're always good with him though. He sucked. He sucked. He sucked shooting. He lost his confidence. Shooting. I'm talking about his offense. Yeah. But that's the thing as a shot. As a remember all the money we made betting on his, the over for his blocks every night. Oh, that will they. Yeah. They finally went wise up to that. But part of the reason his shooting was down because he had such a big load. I think he wore down as the season went along. And that's another thing. Like when you talk about a mid metrics with somebody like Jalen. And it could be Jalen. It could be a bunch of people. But night to night showing up playing 36 minutes a game. I watched him during the course of the year guard. Kate Cunningham in the last five minutes of games. Luca. Right. Right. Right. Pick a guy. SGA. Right. They threw him on like he. Yes. And he would accept the challenge. And I don't know. I just feel like I'm basketball. You have to have one guy that's like, well, at least we have this guy. They have that guy. But least we have this guy. We're probably getting 29 and the 32 from our guy tonight. And when you don't have that, you're not going to win 56 games. So with that said. His plus minus. If you go through his career, it's like shocking. I think he might be one of the great advanced metrics outliers in the history of the league. If not number one. Every single year. The Celtics were basically better with him when he wasn't on the court. And I don't have an explanation for that. I'm not going to be like, oh, the stats are wrong because obviously they're not. And I was talking to my dad about it because my dad, you know, pre-last season. Jalen went up a level last season. Like he really like got better as a creator. You know, his. He. I thought he had less turnovers, even though it doesn't reflect that he had the ball way more. But my dad pre-last season. They would have these two five minute sections when they would take six minute sections. They would take Tatum out. And Jalen would get to run the offense. And my dad would either go to pee or go get a popcorn because he's like, I can't stand this. I hate when it would be like going to a concert. And, you know, you're going to see the Rolling Stones. And it's like, oh, now we're going to play the Keith Richards song. You're like, fuck. Can't you please start me up? It was like everybody goes to the bathroom. So that was there. And I it always felt clumsy when Jalen was in charge of it. But last year was not that clumsy. I'm just telling you. Yeah, I think it's fine to look at, you know, over the course of the career. And, you know, point out these vulnerabilities, these frailties to his game. Like it was a flawed, durable player. Yeah, but we know from the outcomes, what kind of impact he has on winning. Like, right. But the, including the title, the 2024 title and being the MVP of that team, the MVP, the finals MVP. Yeah. Well, whatever, whatever. I thought Jason should have won that enough people saw enough to believe that he earned it. Yeah. Well, I wonder, like, do they look at that season where they super powered the role players around them, which is impossible now, but they just added porzingus and holiday. They had Derek White already, they pictured as a bench guy. Alhorfer was still there. And then you have this double forward combo in their mid 20s still, Tatum and Brown. And both of them were just a lot going downhill shooting threes. And maybe that, they felt like that was the peak. They talked a lot about the, in the press conference about the usage, the usage of the two guys together and the salary cap and I get it. The argument falls apart when you also tried to trade for Yannis and Yannis and Tatum, we're going to be 70% of your salary cap. I will never for the rest of my life understand why they didn't wait to see that this deal was available until September, October. Because I think Philly is saying yes on September 1st, on September 17th, on September 30th. I also feel like whatever happens with Jalen and Philly, you can't, you can't retroactively go and fit that to your opinion of this trade because I don't know.
I don't know if this is a great situation for him. Going to the Spirit team, that's Maxi's team, and then when he comes back, everything revolved, I just don't think his stats are gonna be the same. He's gonna be a-- - He cares, he's a winner. They're gonna win, they're gonna be good. I mean, I love every, every sixer's future. I'm in, like the idea of them is eight to one, to win the east. Okay, I'll have a little taste of that. They're a four to one to win the Atlantic division between behind the next in the Celtics. I think they're gonna be motivated this upcoming season. Obviously, the wild card is, do you get 40 games out of NBD? But those three guys are really gonna help each other. I think it's gonna be a really good fit, like putting good players on the edge comb and Maxi and Jalen together, that's good. That's gonna be, it's gonna work. I'm not worried about that at all. - These were other things I was saying, heading into the 2018-19 Celtics season, when I picked them to win 70 games. Kyrie, Brown, Tatum, Hayward, we're gonna be unbelievable. - Wow, there's a lot of fun. - It was one. - But you could feel it right away, and this is, you know, this is what you and I have loved about basketball forever. It doesn't always make sense. Like sometimes you can have a team like that last year, Celtics team, where it's like, we have one guy who can consistently create a shot. We have a bunch of other guys. You called them Bums, which I let it slide. I think they were young guys, role players. - Okay. - They were all guys that couldn't be top three guys on a team except for white. But they figured out, they figured out how to make it work. And we've seen this over and over in basketball. There's been teams where the pieces fall into place. With Philly, you have a lot of star power and a lot of money. You have a bead who we're gonna talk about after the break. It's just, you know, I would just be careful with that one. Is it an on-paper team or is it a team that's actually gonna play well together? 'Cause Paul George, whatever you say about him at the stage of his career, definitely knew he was a complimentary player and could kind of pop in and out. - But he certainly popped in and out. - I don't know if Kaylin wants to pop in and out at this point. - Well, if you're measuring it by how many games did Paul George play, he certainly popped into, and then popped out of the entire season. - Might have popped some things into his body too. - Yeah, so when we talk about like the usage rate and some of these advanced stats, he'd prompted me to go in this huge deep dive. You know, I did my book from basically '07 '09. We didn't have a lot of these stats that didn't have access to them. And there's stuff that like I was looking at Steve Nash who I had, forget where I had him, but like in the pyramid, I think I'm gonna move him. But I think I had him like in the, somewhere in the '30s in the pyramid and now he was in that cluster of point cards. Steve Nash ran the number one offense in basketball. You can go back now to through basically to the mid '90s and look at all the on-off stats, all the offensive ratings, everything. He was the number one offense every year from 2003 to 2010. Two, last two years in Dallas, his first six Phoenix seasons. No matter who was on the team, they didn't have a Maris Tautomire for all of '06. Didn't matter, they were still number one in offense. They were number one in '08 with Shaq when they made that weird Shaq trade. They were number one in '09 in '10. And another Mark Cuban masterpiece. Well, but then you go and you look at the on-off stats for Nash and when he was off the court those last two years, they were better without him, allegedly. According to the stats, that must have been one of the reasons they let him go. Anyway, my point is like, I do think some of these stats are great. I think Jalen might just be an outlier to some of this stuff. High usage guys on a team that's not that good. That probably should have been like a 42 to 45 win team. And for whatever reason, this type of player was able to pull 10 wins out of the regular season, but in the playoffs it becomes harder. Yeah, well, especially with the roster construction that the Celtics had this most recent season. I just think it's a dumb way to try and capture who he is and the impact on the franchise. The only aspect of it to me that has a kind of like, okay, I can see this vibe to it is the extension. If he was really going to get bent out of shape about the extension, if there was something that happened in those conversations. Yeah, but here's the problem. The Celtics front office did not prepare its fanbase in any way, shape or form for anything like this. It was either Janus coming to the Celtics to join Tatum or we're going to run it back for business. We're going to run it back with JB and then we'll see what happens over the course of the season. And by the way, running it back with JB or at the beginning of the season, at least, it's going to be a bunch of wins for the Celtics because Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum together with the cast of characters and inserting Mitchell Robertson into it. They're going to, they were going to win a bunch of basketball games. And I think that should have helped overall, like some teams, you know, circumstances change as you get to the beginning of the season. Some teams start underperforming right away. And the best you can do is you just wait till December, who's unhappy. Right. Yeah. Paul George in July is not the answer. Like we have proof. We know for sure that a GM took a big gamble on Paul George and that GM is not in the league right now. It was so I'll tell you this. So it wasn't the answer right right after my colonoscopy. Yes, it was, you know, the best example of the kind of Jalen season we're talking about where the advanced metrics actually kind of liked it was Iverson. Interesting. His O1 season where, you know, his usage, everything is like just highest possible caliber. And he was on the court was plus 5.7 and his on off was plus 4.1. So it was around the same. Now, there's also reasons for that. They built that entire team around Allen Iverson. Every decision they made, every player they put next to him was to help hide him on defense, a physical team that can protect him and basically just shoot a shitload of shots and go nuts. You know, and then we get to the playoffs that year. And he's basically even on the court and minus five when he was minus five overall in the playoffs where he didn't have a lot of good games. And they got a lot of foul help would get some walking on that stuff. But it is possible to build around a high usage. More likely it works out like it did with Jerry Stackhouse on that O1 Pistons team. Remember when he averaged like 30 a game and they were 32 and 50? That's usually the way it goes. Yeah, what I thought the touch point, the reference that was closest to what I might have imagined for the Celtics team was Russell Westbrook the year that KD left. Right. And he averaged his triple double. That was the 16 17 year, right? Yeah. They won that. I'm going to say 48 games, something like that. I think they won 46. Yeah. Maybe it was 48. But they got they won one game in the playoffs. They immediately got got you know, and it was somewhere. Remember, remember Westbrook won the MVP because there was that one game in the weekend when he was just awesome in the last three minutes. And it was like, all right, fine. You twist my arm. You have it. But the point is Jalen could at least be somebody that you could, whether the advance venture stats loved it or not. He could be the fulcrum of a team that could win in the mid 50s. If you put the right types of players around him. I don't know if there's a lot of guys like that in the league, you know, I don't think, by the way, as great as Kawaii was last year. The durability thing's just not going to be there with him in the same way. You know, and I also wonder, I can't remember if I said this before, but if you're playing 71 games and you're going hard in all those games and you're really trying to guard and do all the stuff that Jalen was trying to do, you're not going to be 100% for all of those games, right? Whereas like that, we've seen some guys where they could play the 55 to 58 games and take a couple breaks there in the season. Look at Paul George. Paul George took 25 games off, came back. He was 21 a game, the last 10 games of the season. Then he was really good in the playoffs. Partly because he took 25 games off in the middle of the season. So I don't, I will never understand why they didn't wait and I think I'm more confused by the advance metrics than I was before the straight because I don't really have the explanation for how they're worse when he plays and they were better when he was off the court. And I think it's an advanced analytics team that was like, this is, this is multiple years now where this has been the case. What multiple years though, like, just saying that they were making it to the Eastern Conference Finals, the years they were making it to the NBA Finals, like, so there's some alchemy there. There's something about the the chemistry experiment that's producing more good results than not good, like, you know, these far runs deep into the playoffs with him as the second most important player. And it's fine casting in that way. That tells me a lot about his, his import to the situation. Yeah, they're basically treating him like a TV show where it's like, this is ER, season eight. We don't really need to pay our number to lead $60 million anywhere. We can get some other actress and bring, bring her in and basically get the same ratings. What's your reasonable forecast for the Celtics this upcoming season? Oh, I'd be shocked if they weren't in the mid 50s again. I think Fando has them minus 135 for the 50 plus, there's more.
injury risks this year with. No, no, no, there's 49 and a half on Fandall. And it's not minus 135 to the over. Oh, well, it was, it was four days ago. Well, 50 plus wins was minus 135. So that's different. I'm going to try and pull it up here super quick. They have, they have the Celtics. They opened up, Fandall opened up. They put 10 teams out with, um, with the actual overrunners with, with overrunners. And the Celtics are at 49 and a half. And I guarantee you the over is not minus 135 at the moment. Well, the thing is, Mitch, assuming Mitch can play 60 games. And that's played 25 minutes a game, 20 to 25 minutes a game. He's so much better. A lot of games for Mitchell Robbins. I get it. But he's just way better than what they had last year with Garza and Mooseovich. I could not agree more. That's why I thought they should have kept jail. But how many games? Tatum is in the Jalen Brown spot and has been a first time on NBA guy four times. So you'd figure there at least a little out there. They lose Simon's and replace him with Paul George. And then you have who goes a year older and Shireman's a year older, more preacher shots, less minutes for white. So he can be a little more efficient. And I don't understand why they wouldn't at least be a 54 to 55 went team. For the right season. That's right. They have more injury. They did last year. Yeah. They sure do. They sure do. Mitch. Paul George. Right. But the thing is, couldn't they play Paul George 45 games? Oh, so it's exact same price. It's minus 135. I got it wrong. Boston at winning 50 is it still at minus 135. And the over is over 49 and a half. That's what fans will set up for. Is it minus 135? So that's it. I mean, I would think about the 55 for that. Because he figured Detroit's worse. We'll see if it will be better next. It's just tough. There's only one team that took a step backwards. In my opinion, and that's Detroit. The Pacers are going to be playing, you know, to win this season. The Wizards are playing to win. Now that doesn't translate. But I don't think Charlotte is worse. I like what they did in terms of their machinations. We'll see. This off season. I think they did long term, but this for the season itself, we'll see. Well, we'll see. I like Orlando this upcoming season with a functioning head coach. And if Franz Wagner can play 60 games. Well, but look, I mean, you know, they were forecasted to have over 50 wins last season. You would think Atlanta would be a little bit better. Right. But he's just tough. He's just going to be a bitch. There's only three teams that suck. I gotta say the single funniest thing to me about the Jalen, the, the, and listen, and it's been discussed a little in different places. But I think Jalen's side and his agent definitely, definitely sabotaged a couple possible teams. There's no question. There's a couple of teams like who? I think there were a couple teams that they were like, yeah, he's not going to be happy if he goes there. Name names. I think there were teams that backed off. Name name. We got the problem with trading him him at this moment. Now, especially, it's like, there are not a lot of teams that can take on a $57 million contract. Like it's, it's, it's under here, but this is, this is the emperor's. Go ahead. Explain to me in a million years why the Brooklyn Nets wouldn't have traded Michael Porter's expiring firm and three of the first they have for Jalen Brown. What possible answer do you have for this? You are asking for, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the solution to the Jesus shroud. This is the functional equivalent. Like, how can you explain? There's like, like, imagine I'm Joe, I'm Joe Sion. I call you. It's a, yeah, we have a chance to trade Michael Porter's expiring, a pick down the road. We have like a Houston pick and something else and we can get Jalen Brown. Wouldn't wouldn't your answer be like, what the fuck are you waiting for? Take the trade before they pull it off. The phenomenon in the, this is one of those phenomena in the universe that has no explanation. You just have to accept it. It's not like to have another max guy. You can't even blame like this. Oh, are you saying backwards? Brooklyn put this on the table. No, I'm saying Boston thought they had a chance to pull something off with Brooklyn. And at some point in the higher levels, I talked about this a week ago, it got squashed. They decided they didn't, they weren't interested in Jalen Brown, which, you, oh, okay. I'm saying at the high point. Well, Brooklyn deciding against it makes perfect sense because they didn't make no sense whatsoever. Because you can't make any sense out of what Brooklyn is doing. The next one, the title, who are you, who am I selling to next fans next year? Please come see Brown or rookie before you get hurt. Julius, if I have Brown and Julius Randall and a bunch of shooting and young guys like, at that point, I'm not, not interesting. Right. But yeah, they turn that down. That's really bad. They don't need more teams. They just need to move that Brooklyn team. We're gonna take a break and then we gotta talk about Joel and bead. All right, Joel and bead, 57 million this year, 63 next year, 67 in the final year of his deal. I mean, we're doing the worst contract draft all over. I mean, this whole podcast is Paul Georgian, Joel and bead. Absolutely amazing. Jalen's 57, 61 and 65 in Maxi's 41, 44 and 46 in the caps going backwards. This whole thing where the cap on backwards has been, I wish I had been more focused on it, heading into the draft and for HD. Like, says nuts, it's 6 million lower than they projected it for this year. I think next year it's going to be in double figures and by the time we get to the last year or the decade, I think it's going to be like 25 million less than they thought. And I remember, yes, I didn't mean to interrupt. No, it's just when they did the Jalen deal a couple years ago. It was like, well, we'd pay the whole 304 with Tatum too. Like, why did we do that? And then everybody, and then it was just Celtics. Every team was like, cap's going way up. Like, it's like that contract in a couple of years. Like, and I remember doing pods about these guys are going to be making 75 million and it's going to be like, they're making 35 now. Well, the captain go up because of all this local TV stuff. And it is one of the reasons that drove the Celtics trade. And if I'm the sixers and I have 114 million for the beat in Jalen and then I said the Maxi thing, going up, who's the guy I want to build my team around and I have VJ Edge come down the road. It makes me wonder, do I need to have Jalen beat around? I think they're going to trade Jalen beat house. And I think they want to. And I don't care if this gets aggregated. So I think he's available. I think teams think he's available. And I think Philly has been pretty careful about saying we're so excited to build around and be Jalen Max and VJ. You haven't really heard a lot of that. I think it beats available. And the question for me house, would you trade for Jalen beat? And if you, and if you, if the answer is yes, how much would you give up? Would the Wizards trade for Jalen beat? I'll give you a bunch of them. Yeah, I'll give you the Wizards. That would be Davis for 58.4. It's a straight shoot. I think Philly would have to make a second trade to do something with the first apron. They, they'd have to do a couple cat mechanics. But my guess is Philly would have to throw picks into that trade to get you to take a beat. Sure would. Would you, would you be right in that? No, sir. No, thank you. I'm all set. So no, thank you. Yeah. Well, if you're Milwaukee, would you think about Miles Turner, 26, 28, 29 next three years, and Koosam is expiring for Joel and Beade to do what? Milwaukee stinks. What's the point of adding a guy that plays 40 games a season at 60 million bucks a year? So that, so that's a no. That's a hard no. Okay. They need to stink. If you're Brooklyn, would you think about Michael Porter? Just straight up for Embed. Who knows? Ask, you have to ask. But you're in charge, you're in charge of Brooklyn right now. Oh, I'm in charge. You're in charge of Brooklyn. Yes. You tried Michael Porter's expiring for three years of Embed. No, definitely not. You wouldn't. No. Michael Porter's expiring is worth a lot. That's worth a lot. I could have Joel and Beade the 2023, I think it was a year, 2021, 2023 MVP on my team. How many games is it? Who's on my team? Let's say you move to Brooklyn, who are you going to see in the nets this year? Nobody. Julius Randall. The same as ever. It's the nets. Well, here's the one team, I think. Dallas, run by Messiah, you hairy. Long, long standing relationship with Joel and Beade. Okay. I think would be the one guy that would maybe be a little more favorable about rolling the dice to them. And the other thing is they have contracts. They have Gafford at 17, 18, 19, PJ washed in 19, 21, 23 and clay at 17.4. And that can't be the trade. They'd need a third team. So you would have to bring Milwaukee into it and send Turner and Kuzma to Philly. You would have to send and be to Dallas. That's not terrible. And then you would have to send the Gafford clay PJ. You need some sort of third team. It would be something like that. If you were Dallas, would you think about it? No. Wrong player, wrong timeline. So the conclusion we've come to is that Philly is going to have Joel and Beade on their team next year.
situation that makes sense for him, honestly, is a team that is very close to winning the title. And that team looking at, you know, it would be a Western conference team to me in the first place. And it would be a team that feels like this, we can bolster our Wembee stopping power with some number of games from Unbeat in the playoffs. Okay. That's what makes sense to me. Okay, what's that team? Well, the contenders are Minnesota, Denver and Oklahoma City. Those would be the teams that I think, you know, have a legit chance. I don't look at anybody else in the West. Why not? They they they they had a they had balance units as the backup to joker. Yeah, but you can't have a 57 million Denver's out. That's that Denver's ridiculous. I'm just saying, I'm talking. I'm talking about I don't think can because and you're saying they have to trade you to mall. I'm worried. Giant big guys with no point card. Minnesota. I don't think can do anything because it's the second apron. I think it's too complicated for them. Even the go bear bit. They they can't they could go bear go bear. I don't even know if they could there are a lot of package players. That's another thing that's so stupid about the league right now is these, you know, be all these restrictions and regulations against being able to trade. Well, you're the third team you had shot it. I'm San Antonio themselves could could acquire him. Yeah, but they're not in that city, though, was the third team. They're not doing that either. Okay. It would have to be a team that's like a slightly slightly desperate. You know, like I mean, it could be Houston, but Houston doesn't do anything that makes any sense. So they're just going to waste the end of KD. Forget all the teams. Would you even consider taking that contract down in a million years under like desperate kind of circumstances? This is what you said. Can Golden State fit him? Is the expiring Jimmy Butler? An option here. House. Now we're talking. Now we're talking. Yeah, we can get to play. It says, fuck it. We'll get they had and beat Kerr coached him in the Olympics. He played very well for Kerr. He really tried hard for that US team and beat it. And you use them as a luxury. The problem is if you're wrong, you've you've ruined the last bullet in your gun for Kerr. Golden State's an interesting one though. Yeah, the bigger point is there. What if the Braun helps? Yeah. The other one is what if Detroit says, yeah, I mean, this is actually more interesting to us than a dirt and sign and trade. I don't know if they would do that either. Okay. But yeah, there's just not a lot of teams. I don't hate Detroit. I really don't. I do think that the idea of Kate and Bede has a kind of logic. Let me let me do this exercise in a slightly different way. Give me the over under of games by year and Bede plays next three years. 39 and a half per year. Oh, you're set. Yes. Yes. Per year. Right. So that's one. So his over under 20, 39 and a half games next season. Would you bet over under? Under. Yes. See, this is why Philly is not going to be able to trade Joe Ln Bede. I think that's not into the extension. If the next one lost the title. Oh, that's a good one. There's a balance and Bede starts to become, but instead of the other way. But yeah, the next, the biggest mistake Darryl made, I think of this decade was not selling high and and Bede. Much like the Celtics just sold high on Jalen Brown, which I think for different reasons, but it wasn't only just only the not selling high. It was also the extension that was not called for was not required. He was, he had a murky foot situation. That extension is the most unforgivable extension in all basketball. All right. So we think you'll be able to stay on Philly, even though I don't think they wanted to stay that that was that's what I look forward to them being asked this in a press conference, be like, I don't know where the stuff's coming from. We want, we love Joe. Well, we want them back here. I don't, I think they want to have the team built around Maxi and VJ and Jalen Brown. If they could get out that contract, it would on Joe Ellen Bede. Golden State. If they could just man it and they'd have dream on, they have Yaxal and Curry and you basically and they have poor Zingas, right, they'd have a couple luxuries and basically the goal would be, can we just patch together a regular season and get into the playoffs as one of the eight seeds and then kind of see how it goes for two months. It's kind of, I mean to it. I mean to it. It's kind of fun. Let's, let's, let's, let's take a spin. Well, the other thing that happened in poor gold state is I think they thought they were getting a LeBron and potentially a D and now it's pretty clear they were being used by leverage as leverage in the as LeBron goes back. But I don't understand what that leverage translates into, like meaning what? Because the teams that are still in the running for him, the Sixers, the Heat, he's going in and Cleveland, the Cleveland thing's done. He's going to Cleveland. Okay. Come on. But first of all, they hired his buddies, sister GM. That was red flag number one. Red flag number two was they gave out of a Mitchell that giant extension for no reason. Do you want to read that of a Mitchell $75 billion three years from now? Well, here, here's the thing. That was they were paying off Don of a Mitchell. So he doesn't get mad when we got the bro. You're going to be shouting this from the rooftops. We need to tell all the hoops heads out there, all the NBA lovers. It's not just that the salary cap is going in the wrong direction. To percentage of what Don of a Mitchell salary represents to Cleveland is going, it's going to be nearly 40% of the cap because of the way that the cap is the cap goes. Is it any sort of danger going the other way? It's, it's an incredible miss by the people doing the math. At the time, the collective bargaining agreement was negotiated. And this second apron, this hard cap was dropped into the situation. They fucked up how much money is going to be available year over year in a material way. So we are living in an era now and you've said this and, and we just got to keep telling all our hoops head brethren. There are going to be a lot of deals done where it was done for money, not done for, for a basketball reasons, but for salary cap reason. Two things. Two things might flip this. Let's hear it. Expansion. Being able to dump, they could make the expansion rules, whatever they want. Okay. Right? They could say you have to take $8, $10 million and upwares or however they want to do it. But you might be able to get off one of these guys. The other thing is, and I don't know if they can. What timeline for expansion? Does it marry up with how much time is left on the M.B. contract? No, the next couple years are going to be bad. I wonder could they, they institute an emergency M.D. class. They add a year to the CBA. We'll add a year to the CBA, but we need a couple things back, including we're going to bring the M.D. class back. You and I, the M.D. class don't want another year of this CBA. The players hate this collective bargaining agreement. Well, they just, you know, they should blame themselves because they had the reps that signed up for it. The industry clause brought us more joy than just about anything. It was the Alan Houston. Oh, and just every time they had it, it was so funny to watch teams just, just pay people to go away, including your team with the famous Andre Blatch extension, which was my favorite. One of your time grades. The extension that turned into the M.D. class. Yeah, I don't, maybe there's not an M.B. team yet, but that's, I feel like that's going to be a story. By the way, he's been pretty quiet the last couple of weeks, but I feel like there's something there with Dallas. You haven't seen a welcome to Philly J.B. from M.B. yet. Have we seen that? Maybe he's done it. I don't, I'm not. So you're just, you, there's no situation where you trade for him unless you were super close to a title and you had a situation like a Jimmy Butler type contract. A thousand percent. You wouldn't do it like if you're Brooklyn and be like, we have Joel and B. We have a star. Come see Joel and B. How many games can you tell your fans? He's going to show up and play. If he only plays 40 games and come see him for 20 games, I don't know, how did Philly do it the last five years? Not well. Their fans are, are, are, are besides themselves. The counter and M.B. is you, you could say, yeah, I don't know, his knees look actually pretty good. He had all these other weird injuries and things happen that what if he's just healthy. And I'm trying to talk myself into it for somebody. Phoenix was the other one that I couldn't even figure out. Phoenix, a salad or a cap, but it just felt like a Phoenix, yeah. Yeah. It felt like a Phoenix to move. There'd be no doubt. I mean, the Miles Bridges thing is fucking bananas. Why, why did they acquire Miles Bridges? Well, I think they have to, then you got to wish be his college. Yes, he did. Same seems like an explanation. All right. Well, watch and beat watches on. We're going to take, oh, I had another thing for you. Teams that have their own picks in 2027.
We're gonna do a male bag in one second. As far as I can tell, it's only 11 teams that just have their own pick in a way that we can understand like, oh, they have their own pick. Sacramento, Memphis, Chicago, Washington, Portland, Orlando, Charlotte, Gold State, Indiana, Boston, and Detroit. And I think I'm right. I'm not don't hold me to it, but I think those are the 11 teams. And then there's a whole bunch of new picks, swaps, Houston has Phoenix's pick. Memphis has the Lakers. Brooklyn has the next pick. San Antonio has the Hawks, et cetera, et cetera. I think they need to add this to the CBA too along with the MNISD clause. - What? - This is too confusing now. (laughing) Look at this document I have. New picks, swaps, and like this is just a team. This is fucking, how did we end up here? - There's two double swaps, and I don't even know if this is all right. Like Brooklyn has Philly's pick, I think, protected one through eight next year, which they're not getting. So I guess it rolls over. Clippers have Toronto's pick. The Celtics have this. Clippers pick two years from now. That might actually be something. - Well, this is, we can't do this. - But it's just, it's two, I just can't follow it anymore. - The third week of June, 2027, one through 30. Somebody will be picking. That'll be 30 picks in the first round. - They have to pick. - Who the hell knows? - I hate it. All right, we're gonna come back to the mail back. All right, some mail back questions. You can send them the BS podcast
[email protected]. Actually, speaking of what we were just talking about with Brandon asked about the repeater tax, as it run the course, run its course, teams are treating the second apron as a hard cap. Can they just remove it? - It was interesting, Steven's mentioned something I had been talking about on my podcast for years about how unfair it was that Tatum and Brown, where guys they drafted, that grew up in Boston, became star players, and then they basically, because of the rules, couldn't keep both of them, and whether they should have stuff built into protected teams. And my argument was always like after five years, maybe you get 2% off per year of the guy's salary for your luxury tax or your cap, or whatever, you get some sort of benefit because then that would lead to more stability and fans knowing that they would have the same guy on a team for more than nine years. You're down with any of those types of ideas, right? - Of course. - Yes. - You have to persuade the ownership, that group that sits on that side of the table, that this is something that fans want. And so far, they haven't been persuaded. It hasn't shown up in a collective bargaining agreement yet. - AJ-- - Of course, it should make sense. - AJ in Toledo says, "The everyone wins penalty would be for the NBA to force Balmer to swap the clippers for the Supersionics for free." He gets to be the hometown here on Seattle and run the team. He leaves behind the into a dome in the clippers, which they then have expansion for, and you get the other clippers in an expansion team. And that's how everybody saves face. I mean, the more interesting thing about the Balmer penalty, and if there's gonna be a penalty in that stuff, is they traded Kawaii to Toronto. Who was the Agrived Party in 2019? - Toronto. - Toronto. - I mean, the stories are out there about all of the extracurricular stuff that Kawaii's camp was demanding. - Yeah, and conspiracy bills are out there. - Conspiracy bill tackled this in a mailbag a week and a half ago about, could this be the penalty where they just, Toronto just gets their picks back and we call it a day. But it is interesting that they've removed the one, so they get Kawaii back who apparently love being there the whole time, even though he fled, like it was the Emptyville Horror House after that season. And everybody's just like, yeah, and we're just good. So this means we're never getting a verdict. They're finding out what happened. - Both. Yes. - It will be a verdict, but finding out what happened, the league is gonna say we investigated it extremely thoroughly and we couldn't connect to any of the dots that suggests that there was, you know, a knowing plan by the leadership of the Clippers to deliberately circumvent the salary cap. It's a lot of circumstantial evidence. So we're gonna say we couldn't connect to any of the dots. It doesn't look good, the optics aren't great, but there's no direct communication from anybody at Clippers leadership to Kawaii or to aspire that says we're gonna try and compensate you, Kawai, outside of the rules of the league. - We'll see how it goes. - Juman from North Carolina. - Juman from North Carolina wants to know why Phoenix isn't being talked about as a legitimate LeBron destination. He could be doing the 2020 on Chris Paul with Devin Booker, they have talent, they have flexibility, and more importantly, it's one of the country's best golf destinations. What more could he want? - Intriguing. - Here's the thing, two answers. First of all, he's gonna play golf wherever he wants to play golf on whatever circumstances he wants to play golf. It doesn't, he's not tied to the locale, right? It would be, it's a nice to have for the locale to have some golf courses on the days that he's actually, because he's gonna be on the road half the season. - Yes, yes. And even home games, if there's time stretches in the schedule, he can get anywhere. He has a private jet that will take him anywhere on earth and certainly anywhere within the continental United States to go play golf when he finds room in the schedule. And by the way, if he needs a little bit of rest here and there, which certainly makes sense for him and for the team, then go take three days. He doesn't need to play every regular season home game. And he won't play every regular season away game. He'll play some number. It probably makes sense for him to play, what do you think? 60 games? Is that the right number? - He has every record. That this is why I still feel like, I mean, one of my predictions is already coming true that he's using the entire month of July to milk this. And it's worked. And everybody with a podcast, every TV show, has had LeBron segments. ESPN seems to write a piece every two days, like played brilliantly on that. I still wonder, could he just wait until December, January and just keep this going for six months and kind of wait for week 17 football season to strike? It's depending on you. - How many games did he miss at the beginning of the most recently completed season? The first 30? - Yeah, well, yeah, it was like 20 at least. - Yeah, 'cause of the sciatica? Got the sciatica. - Got the sciatica. - Got the sciatica. You gotta see, which makes sense. Fine with it. - If he's made it by this game. - He's called by the way of his golf conciliary. And was like, I'm picking my team. I have every record and I have four titles. I'm picking my team solely for the golf courses. What would you tell him? - Golden State. It's an all-time no-brainer. The proximity to the Monterey Peninsula and Cypress Point, that means you get Cypress. You get Pebble, obviously. You get the other bangers right there. Monterey Peninsula Club is super underrated, magnificent Pasatiempo is within a short drive. And then right there in San Francisco, there is the banger after banger. San Francisco Golf Club, the Cal Club, where Curry belongs, Olympic is there. It's just, you know, there are a dozen of the greatest golf courses that Earth has to offer in that area. Plus, LA is a short flight. So he's got all those. He has San Diego in that whole scene. Like, he wants to go spend the center. - He wants to go spend, you know, 48 hours at band and dunes down in North Bend, Oregon. You know how easy it is to get out from a private jet. - See, this should be the Warrior's pitch. - If like, dude, you already won four titles. You already, everybody's top three for eternity. Like, he should have played with San Curry. - Just make this patch. - You and San Francisco one making the pitch. - You're selling out arenas. You're gonna get to play golf in every course. Like, what are we doing? Just come to us. I don't know what he's, the Cleveland thing. I don't really understand it. (laughs) What do you mean? - I don't understand how, like if winning is the number on priority. - Yeah. - I don't understand how you win a title if you're playing Mitchell, Harden and LeBron as three of your five guys in four-street playoffs series. Why, anyone would think that was gonna work. - It's a tough one. - I think LeBron has to be in the Harden spot. And the only case I would say like why, if he decided it's Cleveland, why it's taken so long is they're trying to figure out a way to get out of the Harden piece of this when they had a win-quink with them. - Well, I thought they already extended him, didn't they? - I thought they were still discussing it. - Yeah, I don't think it's been announced. - Well, they said they're working on the extension. Is it not been announced that the extension's completed? - You've seen teams back at us stuff. - The win-quink was, well, that's true. We have seen that. - I mean, if there were more he has a liar, that's important to us some. - That was tough. - Put there were more, a tough decade. No, he is not. - Extension's not complete yet. - It is not.
it could be ease and maybe it could be three years like all kinds of stuff. That's what I saw. It would be interesting if if Hardin became the six man on the team like he went back to his two super swan vocac. The problem with Cleveland is Kenny fucking Atkinson. I mean get get grandpa his smoking pipe and some pudding and let him you know tell you how many games they won according to the Ouija board. Charlie sends in it's supposed to be eight slices of pie for blame pie. I always do blame pie. I guess I had three slices in the last one and he doesn't like that. Said it's illegal. There's no need to have the word pie involved. You don't say Cheryl have 10% more apple pie on Thanksgiving. You sell one more slice and then he writes I'm a depressed Celtics fan living in the Bay Area. He wants more explanations. So how many slices can be in a blame pie at least four? Because you can have a four slice blame pie. You could. Yes. But we had eight explanations for how the Celtics fuck this up. Did they apologize to their fan base yet? The Celtics? Yeah. They need to apologize. I'll say this because there's been some weird stuff going on online and people co you know doing shitty things to Stevens and all that stuff. Sports. Anybody that does that stuff. I just don't get it. But you can be mad about a trade like whatever. But you start calling it a social media handles and stuff. I just think you gotta take a look at a mirror at that point. I hope I didn't see any other stuff. I don't like shoot with Brad Stevens's kids. I didn't like all of it. Come on. That's horrendous. Let's keep it in perspective. We won the title in 2024. Settle down. I didn't like the trade either. But if you're going online to try to attack people, settle down. Keith Black says he thinks the Matt Freese error from the World Cup game is up there with the worst sports places ever seen in his life. And he said his top five are Jair Spiss finals brain fart. The Bill Buckner game six error. The cult special teams play when they put all the guys on the right side and then the snapper got overrun and the punter got tackled. The butt fumble and Chris Weber calling time out. He thinks I should have a bracket with all the worst plays ever. That's too mean. The Matt Freese play was iconic though. Yeah. And you have to separate even that list of contenders. The stakes are radically different for many of those. Like like the Buckner error is in the same class as frees because that's that's what was it. Frees. I don't know how to say it. Buckner was just like a brain fart mistake. The the the goalie having like basically an AYSO error for the third goal that you would see like in an under 10 game in North
ville, California. I'm still really from that. I'm just being like in terms of like what was it stake? And the the the the the horror. It's pretty bad. Well, except for they weren't going to win that series. And it was game one. And they still all it all had produced was them going to over time. They still could have won that basketball game. It didn't the game didn't end on that play. The stupid, you know, giving up that goal. The game was over. That was it. That game. What about Wembee, Wim and other castles back? Let's go ahead and put that in the list. You can put that in the list. Um, the foul was worse. The foul on him, fouling Brunson was worse. AC and DC says the Jalen trade is so interesting because of two elements co-existing. How lopsided and panicky the trade appears. How amazing Brad Stevens has been. Two things that don't two things that collide. Well, he's been amazing as an executive. Yeah. I think so. You like the Vucha bitch. How that went down. That was a money thing. That was a money thing and then hope. That was it. That was a money trade. That was not a basketball trade. Again, we have to keep telling the world this because that team was, you know, training in a direction where they knew the Tatum was possibility. They had to say money or the team was going to have $300 million in taxes, which was unsustainable apparently. So this is the expectation management that I'm talking about and why they should be apologizing. They should have said out loud that that, you know, Jalen as much as we love him and we'd love to keep him. Yeah. We're not sure that's going to be possible. They could have said that at any point. It should said that they're in the honest thing. They could have said this at any point. I'm still not positive. They were that in on Yannis. They made one offer. You said that they made one offer. They never made a second one though. It's so weird. Why? Why? If you if you wanted to get a new house in DC and you're like, I really like this house, you make an offer. And then the brokers like, all right, well, they'll do this instead and you're like, nope. I made my one offer. Rather than rather not have a house. You should make an offer in basketball. That means you're going to make another offer. But that's the thing. The Celtics like, yeah, I'm good with that. I don't want the house. It doesn't make any sense because it costs them Jalen Brown. Yeah. Anyway, AC and DC says with something like the Luca trade, we could immediately just trash Nico Harrison are not worried too much about eating correlator. But because of how much most basketball fans respect Stevens, we have to entertain the thought that maybe we're the asshole here. Maybe he's far ahead of us on understanding the card cap and how to compete with one being OKC and getting rid of Jalen. And then he wonders has there ever been a bigger self questioning? Wait, am I the asshole? Trade in the history of basketball. I did think about this. It's probably the Adrian Danley market wire trade. OK. Because I think our reaction when that trade happened was huh. Like they almost made the finals last year with Adrian Danley and market wire seems pretty unhappy in Dallas and this is a pretty weird trade. I wonder why they did this. And then it turned out that one them two titles. Not saying this is going to turn out the same way. I couldn't think of any other examples though. How quickly can they trade Paul George? What are the rules now? How long do they have to hold on to? I mean, you can prepare the time. Okay. They still, I didn't know if there was like if this was one of those trades where you have to sit on them for some period of time before he comes trade eligible again. I like to know where I went and said they're not trading trade Murphy. What are they doing? Trade Murphy is going around everywhere saying like yeah, I don't know where I'm going. I'm definitely getting traded. Like talked about the Orleans and Brooklyn, the two most confounding franchises. Blue call and Melbourne, Australia. Love Melbourne, Australia. He said after hearing your list of oh no trades on the podcast with Zach, should we start ranking trades for Shock Factor the same as earthquakes like on the Richter scale. The look at trade would be at 9.5 the largest ever recorded. It's true. You could factor it after Shock, tsunamis and more for trading analysis. It's a 9.9. That's a full 10. Yeah, I would argue the look at trade was at 9.7. I think it's at 10. That's like the end of civilization. Whatever the highest. I thought 9 was like your whole city's ruined at like a straight half hour. Yeah. So maybe the look as a 9. What's catastrophic until the league fixed the the Cooper flag pick? I think a 10 would be like OKC trading, Shay Gilges, Alexander for Kevin Herder straight up. That'd be a 10. What about happened? What about the Celtics trading, Jalen Brown for Paul George? And two first round picks. I think it's at least at least a seven and a half. I would say so. The thing is we knew they were shopping them. So that's what the look at trade of a contract. We've you know how much mileage we've gotten off these Paul George contracts the last three years. What was the number one Washington Wizards Richter scale trade? Oops. Probably Chris Mitch Richmond for Chris Weber. That was pretty bad. You were so sad. Actually, you know what? No, it's not that. It was we traded Ben Wallace for hold on. I know this. The guy from Orlando. Oh God, I know his name. I'm sorry, I can't pull it right now. It was a horrendous horrendous thing because Ben Wallace went to Detroit and became a cornerstone the most important player on on multiple contending teams for them. So it was I cost him. I cost him. Yeah, I knew I could pull it. Tim Legler was a net trade. Legs. What do you think feels about it? I cost him. I remember it's Christ. What the fuck? I had the digital city column back then, but no podcasts. You were just an occasional character in my in my column. I don't think you weighed in on the record on that, but I know from phone calls. You were absolutely furious and upset because you were going to Wizards games and you were like, this guy Ben Wallace. There's something here. Yeah. And then they traded him for Acosta. God damn it. All right. Now that Kyle Larry's official retired as a raptor. I mean, ruling. This is from Big Mo and Toronto. It's Kyle Larry Hall Famer. Six All Stars went on B.A. Champion Olympic gold. He will get a jersey retired here anyway, but we can't control the Hall of Fame. So as you know, I've been constantly tinkering with this pyramid list that I'll probably die and nobody will even know who is in it. I did have him on the extended honorable mention. Second best part in a championship team. He did
We'd get 32 Montbier once, 2019 playoffs, 15, five and seven and 24 games with all the defense stuff that he did. You know, I wrote down best love them on your team, hate him if he's on anyone else's team guy of his era, basically, which is Lambeer, Mahorn, Bruce Bowen, those kind of guys. He was probably the most talented of all those types of players. And everyone gets into the hall fan. So the answer is he said, he did. He said. That's what James is getting in. Get in to him. James and get in. Are you kidding me? Yeah, he'll get in. He has 20,000 points. He'll be in. My goodness. The NBA is something. Jack M. writes, I've heard several takes on how Lamello will fit with Aunt Minnesota. But people aren't talking enough about the biggest problem with this trade. Lamellaball will be living in Minnesota throughout the winter. The worst driver of our air is going to be driving on snow and ice for four months. These can't end well. You're going to have to call Con and Uber and get to Minnesota to protect Aunt at all costs. We cannot let him get in an automobile with Lamello behind the wheel. Now people have been joking about this, but it's possible we haven't joke enough about it. Like he couldn't handle Charlotte. Charlotte's nice. It should be in his contract that he ubers only. Yes, yes. It doesn't not an Uber. Just a driver. I think he likes driving though. He likes driving that. Well, that means he likes. He's going to drive that giant truck and could be far go to Paul from Liverpool, UK. He said, F.A.O. conspiracy bill. Myopic new salary cap rules, most talent leagues after I ever had not enough max salary slots, potentially disgruntled players, Adam Silver now trying to rush expansion to open up more salaries and more max slots, what are your thoughts? I don't think they're related. Yes. It did make me think that I tend to agree with you. You think that the expansion will open up to the cap that the cap will increase because of the expansion? The cap will increase the ability to take 24 players and move them around and give some cap relief, and then if you're an expansion team, like if in Beats, I'm protected. Yeah. The last year of his day, let's say they started in 27 28 or 28, but say they started 20 29. If you're Vegas, do you make and be like one of your first picks in the expansion because you get Joe Ellen beat for a year? Right. Okay. I get it. Except for Mirrors in New York says, why is no one in the media discussing just how terrible the Pelicans rebuild is going, is that a retool, a repoop, you tell me, Train Murphy is still on this team. Why exactly? Missy is suddenly feverishly untouchable, Derek Queen. He's untouchable. Herb Jones, they're letting content, which is letting him rot away in a smoothie-coded hellhole. And what in the ever-loving fuck is Zion Williams that's still doing there? From the outside, it looks less like a plan and more like someone forgot to hit simulate on the rebuild. What are they doing? I don't. Well, he forgot one. They just, didn't they just hire Jamal mostly to beat the question? He did. He's hot. He's coming off a play, a seven game playoff series. Well, he's hot because he was sitting on the goddamn hot seat for the entirety of that Orlando season. Still hot for the season in Ferno. Um, so they have Brooklyn, I have no fucking idea what they're doing. Do Mars, when he traded McCollum's expiring for two years of Jordan pool, one of my favorite underrated bad trades of the decade. Bless up. Bless up. So they still have Jordan pool on an expiring middle. They have Murphy, um, Herb Jones, they did not have the number on pick this year. Of course, um, they still have Murray. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what you're doing. I think that's a team. Who was it? The Willie Green was the head coach. Yeah. It was just two years ago and they were on pace to win nearly 50 games. Um, of course, I got hurt. But there was a case to be made for Willie Green, like, he was quietly taking a lot of that talent. And here we are with them once again, they have some sort of, some sort of swap with Milwaukee that I've, I just, yeah, they have a valuable because Milwaukee is going to stink stink. I, it's either 27 or 20. I don't know. There's been so many things. I have this document with all the draft picks and I don't even know what's right anymore. But they have a swap with, uh, apparently with New Orleans and Milwaukee where New Orleans gets the best of those two picks, but that, yeah, that's right. I have that correct. So that's not bad. The bugs might not be good. They are not going to be good. Yeah. Um, all right. A couple more. Watching upset, this is from Craig from Durham, North Carolina. Watching obsession. Do you see obsession? I didn't sign me up. You should, it's he can, you can pay for view it on, okay, whatever. Okay. Watching obsession got me thinking about Kevin Durant. His career has all the tell, tell signs of a poorly worded wish coming true. That's the focus of obsession. That's the guy makes a wish. It goes badly. All right. I'm eliminated in 2016 to ramp it a wish to probably sign it something like, I wish I was part of the best team of all time. He then got his chance. Unfortunately, after that, numerous injuries, foot on the line, sabotaged couple teams, never got the respect he wanted. That's an interesting analogy. He did get what he wanted. He would that 2017 were his team was the, I think the best team of this century. It's either them or the Omen Lakers in the finals. Who do you have in that? The Warriors. Back-to-back finals MVP, right? Didn't he get it both years? Yeah. Patrick wants to know if, is Jalen Brown replaced Kat now as this generation's 90-10 guy, where his 90% is good, but everybody dwells on the 10% and he said, my other choice was Kat, but I think he washed himself of his sins with the last postseason. I think that's true. I agree. So, Jalen, that was that Westbrook call. I wrote in 2012 about everybody has 10%. That's not great. In some guys, it's more glaring than others and Russell Westbrook's was always the most glaring, and that's a little bit like what Jalen's like. Kyle from Ottawa said, after watching Argentina scrape by Egypt, got me thinking about messing in his relationship with his teammates. I think he has to be the most, number one, most loved teammate of all time. Who else would you add to the list? Steph, et cetera, et cetera, he goes. For basketball, I think Steph and Duncan and Nash, I'm glad you had Duncan. I agree with Duncan as well. For the last 25 years, and it seems like Brunson might be pretty close to those guys. Yeah. Okay. Good. Good. Like that direction. And then going backwards, I think Russell is probably the all-time example that is Jerry West was another good one. Bill Wallace. Magic. I love it. And magic. Magic, you know, he didn't get a coach fired there. He did get normed next to traded, like I don't think it was perfect, but I, you know, I think everybody loved that magic on their team. David B in the, from the Bay Area was listening to me talk to Zach about how I thought they needed a third card in soccer in Gaelic, football, and hurling. Oh. In Ireland. Yeah. They have similar yellow and red cards, soccer, but they also have a black card that works like the power play. Oh. If you get a black card, you're out of the game for 10 minutes and your team's at a disadvantage and then you come back, oh, I like this. I started to think about how this could apply to the NBA and other sports. You get technical foul, you're out for two minutes, your team plays five on four. I gotta say, I did think about it a little bit. I think for soccer, like the Baligan red card, if they had just given them the black card instead, it's just out for 15 minutes and you have to play one man down and then he comes back. I like that more than just this like do or die with the way it is now. My complaint with the Baligan red card was the, the, the next game, like I, even if he had set out the remainder of the game in which he'd committed that foul, um, I could have like kind of understood that, but kicking him out for the next game and having a game and a half. You know, that was like the Wembley elbow, if what Wembley elbow, who did Wembley elbow? Nasried. Uh, Nasried. He had to leave that game in the first half and then if he also missed the next game, that's like you basically missing two games. That was possible because we wonder whether he was going to get an exp, uh, uh, uh, suspension and there was some discussion at the time around whether or not, you know, the league would, would step up that way. Daniel from Toronto wants to know are the Raptors forest gump and his Kawaii Jenny. They unconditionally and deeply love the person, but they walk out on your cheat on your dabble and rot and sketchy behavior and when it all goes to shit, whisper sweet nothing. So you take them back and provide a net of safety and support for their final chapter. I guess forest juniors, the 2019 title, um, you don't want to guess what he said aspiration was, um, but, uh, I do like the analogy of Jenny gump is Kawaii. It's pretty good. The problem is I love you, Jenny. This next chapter in Toronto, it's not going to go well. Well, yeah, they did it with them getting married and her died. Well, this is Jenny with AIDS. Right. She.
Yeah, Pradez. Yeah, Jake's never confirmed for we did a whole thing at the forest cup. We think it was probably. Yeah, I was there for that pod was watching. That's right. Jake's downer said, if I could bet on when LeBron James plays his last professional game of basketball, what would the odds be for him to retire in 2028, but after the summer Olympic school battle game? Oh, interesting. Mm. Two more years plays for the Olympic team. Does the last year is the farewell tour and then the Olympics is the last moment. The question is, do you want 43 year old LeBron James involved in our gold mental game? This is going to be the greatest Olympics basketball ball time. Wow. This could be a house gets divorced. Olympics. No, I don't know how you don't come out for all the basketball for like two and a half weeks with that. I mean, there's ways to do that. And stay married. I feel like, okay, good. That was a good answer. But I, wow. I do love the idea of LeBron having something to do with that team. I really do love it. Um, huge fan of the pod. I'm this is from Darren. I'm a diehard miserable medicine. Nets fan as a meds fan, there's a Jalen Brown comp staring us in the face. Pete Alonzo consistently went on top of RBI guys in the league. The metric geeks. I'll think he's not worth the big money and mess. Let him go paid all these other guys all them got hurt. Miss time and can't do it. Pete did at the footer on the field. The only thing that makes this comp perfect is the Celtic shit. The bed. Please know David Stern would have made this Jalen Brown trade in a heartbeat. That made me feel worse. Just just no question. What does that mean? David Stern would have made the Jalen Brown tree. The Mets guy. Yeah. Oh, saying like as the Pete Alonzo. Oh, um, Dan Fahey from the North end thinks that sliding doors for the whole Celtics trading JB saga. Is not Tatum getting the Achilles injury. But Porzingus getting the mystery illness. Okay. In the second half of 2025, which led to them not being able to beat the next. Right. Tatum getting hurt in game four. Okay. And if Porzingus is healthy, maybe less minutes on Tatum and maybe that is the thing. Which point to there's something to this theory. I do like it. Um, Andy, uh, well, uh, there's a couple more quick ones. Andy from QC. I forgot to mention this to you before the draft about the QC. Where's QC? QC Philippines. Um, phenomenal. Hello, Philippines. He wants to know why we didn't make the debates. The bots, uh, Lembias connection. And ironically, AJ was the one that made it. I don't see it. I don't feel like there. Yeah, I don't, I don't see the comparison. But I, but why I see it? Yeah, the way they, they, they, they present, um, I'll say this with, with no disrespect intended in any way, shape or form towards my guy, AJ, um, bias was a much more physical player. Yeah. And he, he, he could bully guys. We didn't see that version. AJ might grow into his body and get there. Right. But, but I mean, bias was a, a beast on the block. He, he was capable of, you know, creating advantage out of his sheer physicality. And, and AJ, again, he's not there yet. It's so funny that he was both our favorite college players, but we didn't know each other yet. And you had even bigger ties to him because it was Maryland. I mean, I was going to games at Colfield House at the University of Maryland. Like, it's a top five NBA. What if it's a brutal Alex wants to know. He said his basketball group chats having the fall in conversation. How many years would Seth Curry have to play to be considered the better Curry brother? Like from right now, um, assuming he maintains his doubts level splits. 11 points a game, 43% three points. How many years have played before the sheer overwhelming numbers of his career become unassailable? 40 more years. If he was hooping at 85, does he not become the best Curry? And his people come up with these. I was going to say poor Seth Curry. Fuck that. He's had an incredible run. Yeah. I'd still think he'd have to go to 85. Jay from Halifax Nova Scotia said the big fondue was a great Wembee name, but Campoli, we didn't go with the chokemunch or munch or. Yeah. I saw the chokemunch or was out there. I saw that. I enjoyed it. Sacré Blue. All right. Two more and then we're done. From Chance and Oregon, your segment explaining truck Robinson and world be free on a recent mill bag was my favorite five minutes of the pod this year. As a millennial NBA junkie, it's hard to get the proper sense of good, but perhaps not great for us for previous areas. You can piece together YouTube, Wikipedia, basketball reference. Please make this a regular segment. He lists a whole bunch of guys. He said so many dudes. I'm on the cusp of understanding their careers. Pick a guy each week. You find fascinating. First guy he mentioned was Gus Williams. Yeah. And I'm happy to do 90 seconds on Gus Williams with you right now. 1979 champs. Best guy in the team. I have them as the unofficial playoff MVP for 1979. 26.7 points of game in the playoffs that year. He was fifth MVP in 82. He was all NBA once. Second team all NBA once. Third team twice. He played in the 78 finals. Best guy in that team. 79 championship 80 Eastern conference finals and held out in the 80 81 season, which I talked about in my book. He had an agent named Howard Slusher who held him out because he was underpaid and basically cost him a really important year of his prime. He was the best point guard in the league house from 1978 to 1982. So this is a five year span and then Magic took it. Or yeah, and then Magic took the torch. Lost to history because this was the lowest point in the in the history of the league, right? In terms of yeah, it's exposure. It's the place that it occupied the league occupied in the American consciousness. So Gus Williams really lost to history. When you say a guy that averaged, what did you say? 26.7 for the playoffs. No threes. There are no threes in the NBA. Look at the scores of those basketball games and think about how good he had to be in terms of of inside outside. And he was an incredible long-range shooter. Like he would have been awesome at with the three point line. Yeah, he was and then the next year he was 24 game in 15 playoffs games. That team was Portland should have been the best team of that era. And then Walt got hurt and then Seattle basically was and they couldn't. The real problem is Dennis Johnson who I loved obviously. But I think it was a little prickly. Gus Williams, there's a they turned in a little bit of a like a worse version of the Jalen Jason thing. Then I'm trading Dennis Johnson of Phoenix for Paul Westfall who plays that one year and then gets hurt and then Gus ends up eventually and your team for two years. Washington. I remember. But wasn't really the same version of himself at that point. But yeah, I think I think he was the best point guard in the league for a five-year stretch with Jake nothing. And the games weren't on. I think he's somebody he was he was a classic ball guy with a beard almost like an actor. Could dunk on dudes would do the thing where he would go hard to the basket and wait for the big guy to come challenge it and kind of wait a second and then dunk on the guy. I loved his game. He was one of my favorite good basketball cards. Was really never on TV unless they're in the playoffs though. That's the point. I don't think that you just mentioned when we think of him as the best point guard in the league. 49.5%, 48.2%, 48.6%, 47.7% from the field this fucking guy. That's a bucket. That's like that's a bucket right there. He's really good. He was fast. There was always like those were the point guards that are kind of have gone away now. Those John Lucas, Norman Knicks and Gus Williams, like these Kevin Porter, these fast guys. I could run a team that's like great one. Who is our closest in modern basketball? Like right now. It's not running. I don't think we have those guys because I mean it's a score. Yeah, I would say because these guys that impetus is more to score. But like I feel like somebody like A-Cuff could be like that. But it's like it's the interests are more for him to shoot. But I'm going to think on this. Who's our modern equivalent of Gus Johnson? Gus Williams. Williams. Yeah, he Dennis Johnson. It's he was like a prototype though for those shooting point guards basically. Who's never like a high assist guy. Anyway, I loved him. Go check out his YouTube. Last question for Brandon Richter. He said 20 years ago in the mailbag, I wrote to you about instances in which day drinking before 10am is acceptable and he attached the image. Okay. For my old page to call out. Yeah, he made it. And he said today, the day before the next first ever ticket tape, ticker tape parade. I email you wondering if you need to update the list. Because this seems like a reasonable excuse for early morning beverage. I've been saving this email for you because nobody loves day drinking more than Joe House. So especially morning drinking. So when I answered this in 2005, I said, uh, here's my official when it's okay to drink before 10.
- 10 a.m. list. - Great. - While attending football tailgates, college reunions are the Boston marathon. - Okay. - Three winners. - Yeah, good. - During your final two weeks of college. - For sure. - Absolutely. - Because there are many instances where you haven't gone to bed. - Yeah. - Just drinking 'cause you're drinking. I'm not going to bed. I'll just stay up. Oh, look, it's sunrise, oh, let's toast to that. - During any Vegas trip or bachelor party or guys only golf outing. - A lot of time where you lose track of time. The sun goes down, the sun comes back up. - If you pulled it all night or haven't let us left the strip club yet, that's in there. - Again. - Again, this is 2005 me. Sorry, I apologize in advance. Before any wedding that starts at 1 p.m. earlier, anytime you're in-laws are visiting. Any morning, any morning when it's below 10 degrees, this is a good one. I don't know how I came up with this. - This is a big list. - If you're dating an actress and just attended a movie premiere during which she had a graphic sex scene with someone on a 50 foot movie screen. - In 2005, who could that be? - I don't know how I came up with that. While living in any town in Canada that's farther than 75 miles from Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver. If you've been writing for a late night talk show for more than two years, I think that was a joke about writing for Jimmy's show. If your name is Jack Nicholson. Before your fantasy football draft, if you're trying to get the ball rolling, so some of your other buddies get plastered. I actually used to do this. There's always one guy who got married too soon and falls for it. And then I have a mean big jokes that I'm not gonna repeat 'cause he actually had wishes. It's way meaner in 2005. What are the other reasons that I didn't put in there? - Well, you touched on it briefly. You said the Tickertay Parade goes in, but really many rounds of golf, many, many, many rounds of golf. Like, you know, like a bloody Mary on the golf course or a bloody Mary as you head over to the first tee, that's a pretty tried and true staple. Like that really lands for sure. - I had two more that as we got older, I thought of. - Okay, both involve bloody Mary's. - Because I wasn't really a bloody Mary guy in my early mid 30s. The bloody Mary the next day when you're hungover. - Yeah. - I just think is important in somewhat life changing. And I think you might have even introduced me to it. You were my wife, you were two suspects. - Yep. - And then on the plane. - Oh, the great call. The morning, I didn't sleep enough last night. I just want to have one drink to get me a little bit more tired. - So I can sleep a little bit. - Nice little bloody Mary and then I get a little sleepy. Orch the rev up to, I'm going to this destination. I want to be loose. Gonna start drinking now. - To six a.m. flight to Vegas, cross country. Can you start drinking on the flight at like 1030? - I'm on vacation. Vacation starts when my ass is in the plane seat. Can I bring you some champagne? - Yes, you can. - Well, there's also better alcohol now that they have like, my daughter drinks this, I forget what it's called, but it's bottles and it's iced tea and lemonade with something in it. - There's a lot of those out there now. - Yeah, she likes one of them. - High noon, surfside, surfside. - Yeah, yeah, surfside. That's what she likes. - Surfside's really good. - But people have those and they feel like they're not drinking but they're actually drinking. (laughing) - Yeah, they're definitely drinking. It definitely, nice one of those over a couple of ice. That's a drink that I'll drink on the golf course at 8.45 in the morning. Oh, I've just played seven holes. Let me get a drink. - You're most of your day drinking and revives around golf. - That's what you're supposed to drink. - Yes, before the round, during the round and after the round. - I don't understand how you're able to play golf when you have drinks in you. - Well, I mean, first of all, I suck. So that's one piece of it. - But is there a point where you feel like you're getting better and then you get worse? - Sometimes it does create the taking the pressure off whatever you're sort of feeling about your game up to that point. There's an element of that to it. - And I mean, everything's within moderation. Let's just be real. I'm not out there trying to make walking up the 18th fairway shit face. That's not the goal. - Well, plus it's hot. - You gotta be careful. - Hot, can be hot. - Don't wanna end up having the ambulance come to the Mexican restaurant patio 'cause I was out there for five hours, drinking a dozen high nudes, trying to avoid that. Trying to avoid that. - Forget about that one. All right, halves. Have you been enjoying bed in the World Cup? - I mean, we have, I'm gonna knock on wood. I don't wanna say, I have been enjoying it. We've been pretty good. That's what I'll just leave it at that. There's been a lot of good. - I was doing great and then I let my heart carry me with a US first bell gem. - Did you not head out of that? - I should have head-to-that. I didn't have to. - You didn't have to head 24 to one. Did you tell the America that you had a 24 to one ticket, a four leg parlay and the first three legs hit? - Yeah. - And then you even put into the thread the hedge and Debando told you just wait until after it was Spain was the third leg. - Right. - And then it was set up for a perfect hedge. - Spain won in regular time. - The amazing hedge. It would have been a giant winner for you. - I thought it was bad for you. - This is why I'm stupid. - But this is why I'm stupid. - Oh my God, it's freaking USA soccer. - I'm sorry. - So such thing is bad karma, they think. They put a 38 year old dude with a man bun. This is the thing. I'm not gonna do the rant. I do understand where everybody's coming from in terms of the rebuttals to the idea that our best athlete, if we had our best athletes, we'd be better. And then there's a lot of rebuttal. There's a different thing to it. The skill set developing the skill set. I do feel like I asked this on the pod this week. Where would you put Tim Reem in terms of American athletes right now? I'll give you the overrunner of 5,000 fucking athletes in the United States of America. - Yeah, is this guy inside the top 5,000 US athletes at the moment or no? - See, I don't blame Tim Reem 'cause I don't think he probably even deep down wonders why he's the sweeper when he's 38 years old. - 30 years old and he was our best guy to be one of our three guys. So we have back to stop all bad things that can happen against the best countries in the world. - So this is the problem when you and guys say, well, there's a fair rebuttal, like there's the skill set that gets developed, whatever. This dude's 38 fucking years old. He's a big band butt. The six four guy from Belgium just jumped over him. Like what? - Well, the other issue is, I went back, I was going through, I was bummed out after we lost. I was going through the 2002, the run they had. - Yeah. - Where they beat Mexico and the Mexico started cheap-shotting everybody in the last 50, but it's unbelievable. One guy does like a flying head butt. Like he's in blood sport, Vasquez gets kicked out. But then we lose to Germany on a handball play. We lose one nothing. We actually score a goal that hits the German guy's arm and they don't call it. It would have been called the goal now with the VAR. We lose one nothing, but that was, you know, when we talk about like best American teams, that's clearly the best team we've had. That team was actually like, you know, going toe-to-toe, but when you think about the reasons they're going toe-to-toe, they had a bunch of tough motherfuckers in that team. And that's what, when I think about like the World Cup, I've been watching all these other teams how feisty everybody is now. There's a nasty side to these things. Did you feel like we had a nasty side? 'Cause I didn't see that at all. - We have some great tough athletes, I think. - But do we have nasty dudes? - Freeman, who do you want to be nasty? - I'm just saying like, we need to send our team to nasty camp. 'Cause all these other teams, they're pulling arms, they're pulling jerseys, they're throwing elbows, they're starting shit, they're. - So this is the challenge, right? This is the physicality you're describing. We've seen this, this is why there's, you know, this instinct to go to what if we got our better athletes out there, our athletes or stuffy athletes, it's the style. - But here's the, it's my eyes, when my eyes see. - To me and my nigga fall down every time somebody touches him, I've seen, I've been watching fucking football. I've been watching college football. I've been, you know, these guys don't get tipped over. - Well, Jalen Brunson. - Jalen Brunson got knocked down, he just gets up and he's like this tough little dude. - And also can't get really knocked off the ball. - Right. - There's plenty of physicality and he can't get knocked off of it. They do desks, the fuck is that guy? - Well, I was thinking, the 2022 finals that we went to those games were Celtics. And the words basically big boyed the Celtics and the Celtics kind of didn't know how to fight back and got pushed around at all. - That's kind of what the U.S. is like in the World Cup every four years. Feels like these teams, Belgium big boyed us, you know? - And Trump danced us in the locker room after the game, like that. So I got it, it's not just a Tim Reame. Obviously they had some holes. There was, you know, some speed on the sides and then can we get an awesome somebody who's a stopper? - I mean, upon reflection, we had, we were sort of lulled into a misunderstanding around what this team's true caliber, potential, you know, the true alpha. - Yeah, when you hear like people like the Bundo and CR and these people that watch Premier League and LaLiga and all these dudes and these other teams have all these guys that, you know, like that number 10 on Belgium who's on Arsenal and is awesome. I don't watch a lot of Arsenal, but they have all these dudes who have been in just big games all year. - Right. And our guys, you know.
So I don't know there was a little bit of an optical illusion. I still enjoyed the ride. I had a great time really fun. Enjoyed and but yeah, it's it's this is probably where we're going to max out all the time around around the around to 16. Maybe so unless we get some okay with it. I'm only interested once every four years. How's good luck with DeBonza and Peterson. Big night tonight. I hope you guys. Thanks for going to show up. I you know Peterson's going to look awesome everybody get prepared for that. All right, I'll talk to you this week. Thanks, buddy. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to house. Thanks to go how and Eduardo as always. Don't forget Ali rewatchables that is up. She's the one and hits are the next two coming and I will see you at some point on Sunday live on Netflix. Enjoy the rest of the week. All the way. Must be 21 plus and president select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 plus and president DC Kentucky or Wyoming. Game problem call 100 gamble or 1 800 by reset call 888 7977777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org Maryland hope is here visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800 327 50 50 for 24 seven sport Massachusetts or call 877 8 hope and why or text hope and why in New York for Louisiana call 877 770 7867.
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