Katey Sagal

I'm very sexual, Ted. Okay. [LAUGHTER] [MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome back to where everybody knows your name. Today's guest is a legend, and I don't say that lightly. Katie Segall, you know her from married with children, Fuse-Sharama, sons of Anarchy, the Conners, and so much more, including a slew of creative projects with her husband, Kurt Sutter. I am kind of excited today because Katie and I are about to-- we're not about to. We've already shot a week on this new television show. And it's going to be titled something else, but it's Elizabeth Banks new project at Apple TV. And we are each other's love interests. So I'm very excited to get to know Katie just like I'm sure you will. Anyway, she's a total delight. And I can't wait for you to get to know her, like I am in the process of doing. Please meet Katie Segall. [MUSIC PLAYING] I just love that we're doing this. I know. It's pretty fun. Yeah, for people just tuning in, beginning, you and I are not about to. We've started working together on a new show for Apple-- Yes. The Elizabeth Banks project-- Right. A rowdy-- I thought it was the Ted Danson. No. I told you that. I know. I'm sorry, but that was just to shut it, impress you. I called Liz our leader, writer, creator, said, oh, I've been saying it's like modern family on acid, which is not a great way to describe it. But it is a rowdy family comedy-- It's a rowdy comedy. --rowdy underlying two or three times. I really-- I can't wait to get way in, because we're just started. So-- You and I did a lot of-- it was a lot of group acting the first week-- A lot of face acting-- Yes. --reacting in a crowd. Yes, which-- Yes. I don't know. I don't think you did it as much as I do, but when I'm in the background with no words, but supposed to be alive and present in the moment, I am become the world's worst mind, where I just-- everything is way too large and, you know. I thought you were very funny. I thought you were indefinitely present. I thought I'm going to take a few lessons from Ted over here on crowd acting. You and I probably would never really have gotten together in life, because I think we're similar in many ways. But your magnificent-- I am so excited to get to know you in this one-- I would never go out and have a beer with-- well, for sure, with you, a beer with you, but even have a sandwich, because I'm shy, and I go home to marry, because that's where my goodies are. Oh, that's so sweet. But now I get to hang with you today, and I get to really hang with you and work together, hopefully for a long time. Are you kind of reclusive? Is that what you're saying, a little bit? Or just like my husband, does that way as well? I listened to your husband a little bit. I like him. He's a manly, manly cream puff. 100%. He was going to come today just to meet you and say hello. And then he literally called me 15 minutes ago and said, I really don't feel well. It's just like the cream puff side. He's fine. He just-- He doesn't love leaving the house. Yeah. I'm not quite reckless. I've said this before in this show, but it's like-- if it's not worth marrying, it's slightly-- in this sounds like I'm trying to get into all. But it's beside the point. Life's a little-- see, I got one. Women love it when I talk like this. Mary kisses me, I'm talking like this purposefully. Just to get the awe. Yeah, it's good for me. But it's kind of true. When she leaves, my endorphins crash so-- and so do our dogs, we both sit around moping when she's gone. But it's just because we have so much fun together. It's not like I'm depressed, but it's just different. It's a little grayer. She's coming home tonight. So I'm very excited. Where she was gone. Yeah. How did her thing-- what a minute? I know I'm jumping ahead. Nobody knows this. But how did her singing situation go the other night? You were on your way to a thing. Yeah, it was as she calls it, the please vote for me to her. The beginning of you getting out in the world when it's a ward season. And she and her co-writes from Nashville, and several people here in LA wrote a song that she sang as a character in a man on the inside. Oh, all right. So it was lovely. And she co-wrote it and sang it. And so this was a group. This event she went to, composers who were getting their music out in the world. But it was held in an-- I wish I could remember the name of this. But it's now in a big building. And they have different rooms doing all sorts of symposiums and things like that. But it was started in somebody's living room of composers and song and music people to support each other. It was like a support group that expanded. So here were all these people who were probably will compete in some way for awards from their music. So supportive. That's musicians. Yeah. Musicians were very supportive. And there was a 16, maybe larger orchestra, horns, violins, cellos, everything. E. Pluribus, that guy who wrote the music for that. Oh, OK. And there's a choral group there as well. So it was such a musical evening. And at the end, she got up. She was the only singer who got up and sang this song. And people were so supportive. It was a lovely evening. I'm telling you, the music community, which I started, that's where I come from, is that way. Is that way. And I don't know that-- I mean, I'm sure-- I find the acting community a little doggy dog compared to that. I mean, it's sort of-- that's just my experience. But I love to hear that that's what's going on. I'll have to admit that a lot of our friends-- we have great friends here in this community. But we have-- we made so many great friends from her music in Nashville. I mean, just who know our dogs and kids' names, which is-- And don't forget them. Yeah, yeah. I love our community here. But it is different. Yes. Because music's different. Yes. Yes, it is. I've been listening to you sing a lot. Oh, OK. I've been googling and you know, YouTube being you like crazy. I started just when I found out we were going to work together. But wow, what a wonderful voice you have. And you are a professional real-deal singer. And that's how you started, right? That's how I started. And that was the goal. And yes, since I was a kid, that was my first entree into any kind of social life. I was completely terrified of people. But I remember learning how to play the guitar when I was 10. My mother taught me how to play the folk guitar. Was this a singer? She was a singer. And I remember all through school, I would just bring my guitar where I remember going to a Girl Scout meeting and then making me leave the room because I had to have my guitar with-- I mean, it was kind of like this sad. But it was my entree. It was my safe place. So yes, music is what I've known the best for most of my life. When did you first sing professionally? I got into a band when I was-- well, I went on the road when I was 18 in a rock musical. I was a chorus girl in the rock and roll version of two gentlemen of Verona. That was my first pro singing job. And then from there, I was like, I was a singing waitress. That was-- they paid me to sing. Where-- where was this? There was a restaurant in Santa Monica called the Great American Food and Beverage Company. And you had to audition to get a job there. Like Danny Elfman started there, Ricky Lee John started there, a bunch of people that were-- we were all coming up together. And you'd go in. It was a horrible waitress. But I would play my guitar, play the piano, and sing, and make really good tips. So that was the gimmick of the restaurant. There were jugglers and magicians and all kinds of-- Take your order, go deliver it, pick up balls, and jugglers, sing a song. Yes, yes. That was the whole-- and it was kind of-- it was around for about 10, 15 years. Like people would come and go. And so I had sort of a solid gig there. And then from there, I got into a band. I got a record deal, a custom-wanker records, and then a lecture records. I mean, things were happening. And then, but I'd always come back to the band. restaurant because I couldn't make a living living until I started working as a background singer. And then that is when I. So the answer to the question is I started professionally, I guess when I was about 18, 19, when they actually would pay me to sing. So. And then, you know, from there, I just. I kept making records. I never wanted to be in the background, but it really paid my bills. So I'd go on and off the road with various people and I'd do session work in town, but I'm a terrible reader. I don't read music. I just have a really good ear. So as long as they would put me in the middle section, I could hear my part. So I bluffed my way through all of that. And this was also in the days when there were publishing deals where songwriters would write songs and then they'd need somebody to demo the song so they could sell it. So I did a lot of that. Right. Yeah. Boy, it changed a lot, hasn't it? Oh my God. It's really. And they got demonetized. That's right. But what was the invention that came out and all of a sudden everyone could download whatever they wanted? Napster. Napster. Yeah. I mean, I watch now my older kids are both musicians and actors. And my oldest daughter just has made the most beautiful record that she wrote and produced and she's amazing. And just to see the process of how you have to be able to market yourself now. Like we're labels used to, you know, you'd have to pay them back, but they'd give you money so that you could, you know, just be an artist and just sell them. They do all the selling. And now it's just a very different world for young artists. It's hard. I mean, on the acting side too. Kind of a discoprentices, but I wanted to share this with you because I think you'd be interested that there's a group of ladies, artists out of Nashville put together something called mother. And they go around singing and performing, but the idea is to raise money, consciousness, how hard it is when you're an artist and then you have a child. Oh. You know. And do you tour anymore? What do you have babysitters who allow you know, some support system? Because it's very hard to be a mother and an artist. It absolutely is. So anyway, keep your eye out for it. All right. It's a fledgling group. It's pretty cool. I love that. It's a really good support to have. Do they watch each other's kids? No. I don't know yet enough about it. Mary. It was friends with several of them. I spent some time in Nashville. I had a house in Leapers, fork when it was great. It was great. But when I bought there, it was like 25 years ago, it was cheap. Nobody was there. And I've watched the community kind of. And I tried to sort of plug myself in down there musically, but it was a very different approach than I was used to in terms of songwriting. And it was kind of like you'd go in and by the end of the day, you had a song. Oh. It was like a factory. But not a bad factory, but definitely. But it was weird for me a little bit just because I hadn't, I was not used to that process. And thus I'm not really a country singer. So I, and this is before everything expanded to where now you don't have to be a country singer. Everybody was there. Everybody was there. Everybody was there. Everybody was there. Yeah. No, I was down there when Whalen Jennings was down there. And they were telling him he was an outlaw. Like that community was so tight. They were, you know, they barely let Whalen in because he was from Texas. So, but yeah, it's. Whalen's not country enough. That wasn't country enough. Apparently, you know, so it's a great community. So you're surrounded like you were by creativity. You're now, are your kids around you? Are they off? Oh, no, they're all here. Well, my son is now he's doing quite well as an actor. He's in Australia right now making a movie. But he's on a television show called Tell Me Lies on Hulu. And they just finished their third season. So he, yeah, he just kind of blew up my sweet son. And but they all live in LA. My daughter lives, you know, 10 minutes from me and my youngest one is 19 and she's home from college. So yeah, they're all right. Do they share their, do you get to be around their creative process or is that kind of stuff? Like to nose my way in. Yeah. No, I, yes, I do. And some what I've really learned lately is to say things like I have some thoughts about that. Would you like to hear it? Yeah. And then if they say, no mom, I don't want to hear it, then I have to follow suit. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I'm not like a pushy stage, mom, but I, I relate to their art. Like when my daughter was making her record and she would send me mixes, rough mixes, I had a bunch of notes, you know, and I would really have to pick and choose what because I, I just felt like I just know that world. Yeah. In terms of my son's acting, not so much. We got to do a little together. I was on his show. I played his mom in one episode on his show. So that was really fun. And are they proud of you today? I know they are. No, I know they are. You know they are. Are they demonstratively proud of you? I, I, I would say yes. Oh, that's great. I would say yes. They're very like, you know, they're, they're only thing to me as mom. You've been working for so many years. Why don't you just chill for a while? I'm like, you guys, I like to work. That is chill for me. I don't like all the downtime. Yeah. And I don't really know. I, I, what else I would do, you know, so, but they're really proud. You know, like they're the first ones I call when I get a good job. That's great. Yeah, they're awesome. Did you call them about our job together? 100%. Are you kidding? 100%. They're so thrilled. They're just, you know, they love you. They love Elizabeth. They love Rob Delaney from catastrophe to do. Wow. Yeah, Rob. Isn't he something? Yeah, he is something. I, I'm trying to pull back because I, you know, I don't know, I, I'm just overly effusive. The first week or two to make me feel comfortable. But everybody, you know, it's a good bunch. Yeah, it's a great bunch. Yeah. Yeah. Get, you know, I think next week we do some more sort of like, yeah, we get those. Yeah. Rather than group scenes. So that's which is nice. That'll be fun. No more mugging. No, we're mugging. Well, maybe, maybe. You never know. I said what I worked with John Ritter. He used to always, he would make such big jokes about face acting. He was like, well, okay, now we're, you know, because he had that rubbery face. Yeah. So he, yeah. And a sweet soul. Was that, we know his son Jason really well and he's been on this. But was that what he was working on when he died? Yeah. Yeah. We were doing press pretty much at four in the afternoon on that day. And then by 10 o'clock that night, he left us. It was mind blowing. It was just really mind blowing. Yeah. But you know, it's interesting. I don't know how your belief system is, but I feel him around a lot. I just feel him around. I can just, his energy and his, his love of laughter and life. And even though I think he had his darker side too, but he just brought so much light that I just feel him around. Yeah. Definitely. That belief system, yes, is shared in this room. I've had people that were very specific about that belief system here talking to them. But let's talk about me first. A little bit more. I would like to. It'll put me at ease. Okay. Just cry. I love this about you, Ted, because you are so self aware of that. That's just so cool. I've worked with so many male actors that they don't have that self awareness. So I love that. Yeah, I can make people work a little hard to make me feel better. You know, self-effacing is kind of bullshit because I'm magmedificent. I love being Ted. I think you work too. All of those things are also true. You know, to be self-deprecating, you have to have a pretty huge ego to begin with, I think. All right. So, actors when they work together, they avail themselves to each other in a controlled way of this is who I am. Let's get intimate, not physically, but let's be intimate and personal so that I can share with you parts of me that maybe will be good for us in our working together as actors and for the characters, right? Right. I agree. Okay. So, what is it about you I should know to help me play and vice versa? What do you want to know about me? Because we… for the audience out there. And for these guys who don't really know, you meet us. - Yes. - Let's spoil it. No. You meet us not visually so everyone can relax in a steam room having sex. - Yes. - In a retirement village when our families have gotten together, haphazardly, to go visit their us and can't find us. And we enjoy each other's physical company. For his one, he's a question I never got. This is our first time having sex. - Oh no. - The steam room, you think we've been doing this for a while. - I think we've been, I think it's been going on a minute. - Okay. - I like that, because otherwise-- - That would be my choice. - Yeah. - Yeah, because I feel like the dialogue after where we go-- - Would be to-- - No spoiler. - Like, yeah. - To, yes, off hand to be a first time. - Right, right, that would be my-- - Great, so this is why my description of our relationship is why I'm really curious about all of this. Yeah, what should I know about you that were, tell me who-- - I'm very sexual, Ted. - Okay. (laughing) - I'm at this age of my life and still into it. So-- - I'm fucked. Okay. - I'm the exact opposite, not, I mean, but I, growing up and it's still not that, well, you know, I'm madly in love with my wife Mary. We've been together for 32 years. So me talking about how I would be out in the world is like a distant-- - Right. - Bad memory, kind of thing. - Yes, right. - But growing up, the girl would have to be naked, standing in front of me and I would still be going, me? - Oh, you're so sweet. - No, no, it's not sweet, it sucks. You know, it was so-- - No game. - And Sam alone, I would break into a sweat in the early days when I had to come onto a woman in the bar. It was just not me. I've learned how to do it. But so when you say, very sexual, I'm starting to sweat. - Don't sweat. - Yeah, okay. - No, I think what's important about saying that, and I say that somewhat facetiously, but it is true, is I think that when I was growing up, I thought that by the time I'd get to this age of my life-- - Which is? - 72. - That would be a distant memory. - Yeah. - And-- - You'd have tight curled gray hair. - Something, yeah. - Right. - And it's not that. And so I think that the more that's sort of spoken about, I think that's a good thing. I mean, I think the fact that we're doing a show where you're gonna see people in their 70s having sex is-- - Not literally, folks, so relaxed. - Not far from the truth, and I think it's very affirming. I think that, you know-- - 100%. - It's a good thing. - And we're not making this up. This is rampant. - Oh, rampant. - And rampant in retirement homes. - Absolutely, yeah. They have the highest rate of STD. - Yeah. (laughing) - Okay, but you're all right, right? - You're so-- - I'm all right. - Yes. - Okay. - You're so sweet. You said that, you know, my husband is very similar. I think he's, I think my husband is super hot, but I think he would never, he would never think that. He would just, that's what makes him so great, I think. - Yeah, actually it was also a part of my seduction. - Right. - Which was, hey, it's me, Ted. One of the girls, let's take our clothes off. - Oh my God, you're so funny. (laughing) - You know, my husband said that's been when we were first dating. He said, you know, I'm half a girl. I was like, oh, okay. (laughing) In the greatest way. In the greatest, like, in tune with his feminine, which self, which I feel like so to be an actor, to be an artist, to be anything, we have to, you have to have a good connection to your female self. Because that is our emotional life. - Yeah, that's great. - So that's what I think. - And once you all, you ladies, get past the, oh, danger, you know, we, I love a dangerous guy. Once you get past that, which I think most people don't get stuck there, then that's what you want. You want kindness, you want it to be seen, you want to be. - I got stuck there many times. (laughing) - That was the other thing that I got stuck in, by the way. Which I think is great about, 'cause you both, I think, in our characters, neither one needs fixing. - I would say so. - Yes, I would think. - I don't, my character would not look at you and go, oh, 'cause here's what I used to do, sorry. I would find the woman who had the wound, you know, and I would become indispensable to making that wound go away and feel better. That was my, it's a horrible way, 'cause then you're, whatever. It's, it's. - Is that how you grew up? - Yeah. - Do you think care if somebody's wound? - Yeah. - Yeah, I was making up for, yeah. But it's not a great way to go. When I met Mary, I started doing one of those bits and I could see her, not literally, 'cause she didn't know what I was about, what I was doing. Look at me with this kind of confused look and it was like, oh, I don't have to do that anymore. - Wow, that's great. - You know, I don't have to do push-pull anymore. This person is totally okay, within herself. She does not need me. It's a magnificent gift to give to the other person. - It's scary though. If you're a person that always has chosen people that need you, that first leap into the person that doesn't actually need you, I mean, to me, I learned enormous lessons about myself that way, 'cause I watched myself get afraid of abandonment and this and that. Like if you don't need me, and by enough, all that stuff came up. - Yeah. - And it still comes up. (laughing) - It does, you know. - Yeah, no, I know. - I don't think those patterns go away. You can go, oh, here comes that pattern. I don't have to react that way. But that pattern will poke its head up, I think, always. - How? - Yeah. - Yes, I come up with that. - Okay, so we don't need each other. - All right. - And I admire that, and you are, I don't think I'm ruining anything, but you are a reporter. You are on 60 minutes. - Right. - I was a very successful plumber. - Love that. - And proud of it. - Right. - And I'm very self-assured. - And isn't that great that two people that come from those, I mean, like as younger people, I don't know that a 60 minutes journalist would be attracted to the plumber. And I don't know that the plumber would feel like, oh, I can go, you know, it's kind of different. I think as you get older, it's not so much about what you do, you know, it's about who you are. - And how does this feel in the moment? - Yeah. So I think that that's some. - Here's something I need to work on for myself for the plumber is I do tend to, even though I've confessed I'm very chuffed to be myself. I love to, I do. But I walk in in a knee jerk kind of way, apologizing. - Sorry is, yes, sorry is like, you know, comma in my, I'd say it, wait too much. That's not Fred the plumber. I need to be able to walk in, put aside my fears about am I a good actor, put aside my fear if I have to be a little bit different to be like, you know, whatever, put aside all my fears and walk into the room as an actor, totally confident. Please with myself. This is so interesting to hear because my, since I've just met you, my lore and my brain about you is that confidence very like, is exactly what you're saying Fred should be. I would not, you know, so it's so, so interesting what you make up about people before you actually meet the people. And I would, you know, to me, your legendary Ted Danson. I mean, I, and, you know, I would not think that would give an all that you've done. I would not think that those things would still pop up. But you know, as I say it, I think that quality of like, you know, not quite feeling good enough, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I think that's what makes for interesting actors. Curious. I agree. Yeah. And I sometimes think if you are, if Sam alone had been played by somebody who was just a pure, real womanizer and arrogant and cocky and everything, I think that person would have missed the joke. Absolutely. And I think you have to get the joke to play that. Yes. Anyway, what about you? What about me? I don't know anything more about the parts we're about to play. You know the truth is this is just silly talk. We'll find out as we go. It'll be fun. Right. But what about the parts we play? Well, it's interesting for me because I'm sort of grappling with even though as I talk about being older and being sexual and having all those things, there is part of me that's still kind of grappling with this whole like, like when they first said to me, okay, you're going to live in a retirement village. I was like, huh? What are you talking about? Yeah. It's me. Yeah. I'm not there. How could you do that? I'm not talking about. And then I've sort of like, like, once I spoiler, but they put a beautiful gray wig on my. on my head. And then I kind of, I think it's helping, you know, just the thought of that I got that role is making me be more in acceptance of maybe that I can do that, that I am that, that this is, you know, because I don't know about you, but I feel like I'm 45. I don't feel like I'm the number. And, you know, so at first I was almost not like offended, but it was almost like really me. This is not, this is not believeable. But you how are you going to do that? But then I saw how we both got put together and you have a youthful vibe. So it was like, oh, okay, these are two people that are this place in there. I don't know what you've decided about why you're there. I know why I've decided why I'm there because they didn't really tell us why we're there. So I made up a thing about why I'm there. And which doesn't necessarily have to do with not being able to take care of myself. It just has to do with a few things that would be much nicer if somebody else would do them. Do you know what I mean? Not quite, but I don't want you to have to tell me what it is. Maybe it's just wonderful to keep yourself. Like driving and, you know, all the things like my imagination is that I come from New York. I'm not a person who drives. I'm not this and somehow I ran out of money. All my money. So my son had to support me. And so he said, yeah, but you can't live with me, but you can live here. That's my sort of made up thing. And I'm sure you must have something you've closed. I kind of, I'm not, I should, I don't know, this is my bad actor. Am I just no surfacy, but there's some spoiler alerts that I don't want to talk about. I know. I know. I've been talking to you much. Physical stuff and all of that. But, but it's like my backstory or what comes will come out and be thus a part of the story is gives me an attitude that I like, which is, well, what the fuck? Let's come up and have fun. Oh, yeah. You know, what the fuck? Okay. You know, acceptance of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm kind of, she's maybe working. I don't know. I have no idea. You know, when you do a job like this and the writers are, they're right, you know, I live with a writer. Yeah. So I know that I'm just there to service whatever he's going to give me. So I'm not sure where we're going. I'm not sure how much we're going to know about anything. Really. So, but I know, for me, I have to know sort of that backstory a little bit, even if I've just made it up, just so I know where, you know, the relationships, I just, you know, because sometimes the, no, no, I think it's incredible. Yeah. Valuable. I mean, and not to be too deep about it. It's not like something that they think it's just walking the door feeling like this is not bullshit. It just makes sense to me because of Yadayada Yadayada. Especially in funny stuff. Don't you find? I mean, I really think that, you know, yeah, because funny stuff only to me is worth watching is if it's grounded in some sort of sadness. Primarily. And reality. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we're lucky about that. We're not doing three. For me, I'm not good at doing three jokes to a page. Oh, right. Or interested. No, or interested. Yeah. Yeah. So this is good. You know what else is cool about our parts? Huh. We're not, um, we may be a pain in the ass to our children, but we don't fucking need them. No. And we're not stupid. Right. And we're not, you know, so it's like, you, you actually, kids, you would do us all a favor if you would like clear the way and let us do our life, you know, whatever it is. And that's nice not to play old people who are the joke old people. Oh, and the trope old people. Yeah. That's what I say that. I kind of know what trope means. But trope is really the the stereotypical. Yeah. What you think of people in their 70s, which, you know, has changed so much over the years. So it's, you know, we are not the, the trope. Yeah. And, and, and nor are the kids. And nor are the kids. We have what, two, eight, nine, ten-year-old boys somewhere in that range. There are the grandchildren. The grandchildren and a 16-year-old grand child. And it's just, they're just really great. But they don't, they're not written in a trope. Oh, no, that's what I like the script a lot because nobody really is. You know, it sort of goes against. I'm sure it's intentional. It's really, it's good. For me, and I don't know you well enough to really say this, but one of my favorite things is sadness. Yeah. Because sadness, someone once told me this years ago, kind of guru-ish kind of person, but nevertheless, I thought it was very wise. Sadness is a function of winning. And I really like that. Anger, no, you know, sadness, fear, no, but sadness is a good thing to have. But I see in you and this is just me, I see sadness. Yeah. Not, not, an examin sadness, not anything that's running, it doesn't feel to me that you, I don't feel smeared by your sadness. I just feel like there's a hint of sadness, which to me, I find real and, well, it's examined. It's examined. Wow, that's great. So can we talk about where that sadness came from? And I don't mean, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. I'm not talking about that part. Can we talk about family and losing parents at a young age? Young age. I mean, you were not a teenager, but it doesn't matter. You were very young. I think I grew, I think I was born sad. Honestly, I do. I look at, like, serious and sad. Yeah. Like, I look, you know, I've raised three kids. And when they were 10 years old, they didn't look like my pictures of me at 10 years old. So I think that, you know, I'm the oldest of five and my father was a director, one of the early television directors, Boris. So he was gone a lot. And my mother, who should have been born now, my mother was a very creative person, an artist person, and had been singing and had her own radio show when she was 11. And she kind of did that. Wait, what? Had her own radio show. My mother was called the singing sweetheart of Cherokee County. How cool was that in South Carolina. And she'd have like a 15 minute, you know, radio show where she deodor, I mean, it was like this wild thing. And then she she ended up kind of supporting her family when they moved to New York and my grandfather left. And anyway, so the truth is that I, but my mother was sad. My mother was one of those people that did the trope thing of getting married, quitting, working, having kids. And I just don't think it was really following her authentic self. I think that that was the trap that she fell into. And so I just remember, you know, being being the grown up, being, you know, the little kid grown up. And my mother, being my dad, being at work a lot and mom being at home and telling me things that kids don't really need to know. So as a confidential, like a friend, like a, like something you would tell your girlfriend, there was a little bit too much sharing going on for which I didn't realize till much later in my life. But so I think I kind of grew up in sort of a sad, fearful way. And I don't know, maybe it was just out of the shoot that way or maybe it was circumstance. I'm not, I don't really know. But and then I did, I had a rough go in my 20s when my, both my parents, my mother died when I was 20 and my father died when I was 25, 26. And so I had a lot of early loss, which is an interesting way to process mortality. You kind of get a hit of it really early. You understand, like, oh, this, this is finite, this whole journey here, which if you're, if you're not processing that in the correct way, like a young person, that can be sort of scary and sad. So, um, but you haven't had a chance yet to get your feet really underneath you. No, no, plus I was, you know, drinking and drugging a lot at the time. So it was kind of, I was just all over the place. But it's like what you said, I look at it now, like all that sadness kind of growing up just kind of made me, like I'm not sad now. I feel, I feel much more, and it's because I've learned how to sit with that and not run away from that. You know what I mean? I do. And, and it's been a great teacher. I mean, discomfort, as the Buddhists say, we need to be comfortable with our discomfort. And I find that the more I can put. practice that, not perfect at it at all, but the more I can practice that, the more I grow, the more I, rather than, and it's kind of what I try to pass on to my kids a little bit, I've always told them, life's not fair, so don't start thinking you're gonna, and I've tried to sort of push that on them that discomfort is where you're learning, that's where you're actually growing, so try to. - Just out again, life is not fair, I mean, it's something we hear all the time, but there's sometimes one that's said by life is not fair, it's from a victimy, angry. - No. - And I know that's not what you're saying, but it's, what does that mean, life's not fair? - Life is not fair means to me that, one in one doesn't always equate to two, that there's so many more circumstances around whatever it is, life is presenting us, and we think we're on a certain trajectory, and we should now get the prize, we should now get the pot of gold, and then sometimes we don't realize that the pot of gold is way down the line, and you're not gonna get that until you've missed this thing. That's how I believe, what I believe, is that everything is leading to this, or something greater than. And so when I say life is not fair, that just sort of means like, you know, what we think we have to have, we don't get, and that's okay because we're not supposed to get it, something else is gonna happen. I didn't always feel this way, I used to feel like, you know, if I don't get what I want, I got to either push harder to get that thing, force that round thing into the square peg, or just be resentful and regretful, and why didn't I competitive all those weird things? And so I guess that's what it was, is that, or was it super long? - Yeah, I know, I agree. I agree, I don't, well, I almost do lead my life this, but the law of attraction, right? Yes, we all have desires, that's what it is to be human beings, so you have these little rockets of desire going off all the time, but the trick is, you know, yes, desire this, that's over there, then, and imagine it, but then let it go, and be grateful and in the moment now. And the rest will take care, and don't limit yourself by how you think you should get to that desired goal because life will, you know, - 100%. - Will take a left turn and you'll go, "Oh, well, no, this was not a left turn, "I'm actually now feeling more fulfilled, "I'm more of service to people, "I have more love in my heart than, you know, "which is what you're really targeting in life, you know." - You're not to get super recovery. - Oh, let's do. - Let's do. But, you know, recovery is all about, you know, don't leave before the miracle, and also about - Don't leave before the miracle. - In other words, don't, like, what I was told when I got into recovery is that you're, you're dreaming too small. Your life will be bigger and better than you can even imagine, which sounded like a sales pitch to me, which was like, what do you mean? Like, I don't drink anymore, and then that's gonna, I thought it was all bullshit. But when I look back now, and I see how my life has the trajectory it's gone on, everything I thought was important to be a rock star, to be like, blah, blah, you know, all the things. My life is so much better than I could have imagined in terms of raising a family. And being, like you said, the mother group in Nashville, I was able to work and raise children and be married a couple of times. And, you know, all the things that I was cutting myself short by thinking, no, it has to be this way, it has to be this way. Which was a lot of what my drinking and using had been about, was about being so rigid in my desires. And every time one of them would not come to fruition, I was like, fuck this. Oh, can I swear? Can we swear here? - Yes. - Okay. I would be like, fuck this, I'm not, you know, I'm gonna just blank this out, this part of my life. My life was very, very small is what I'll say. - Yeah. - And then with my recovered state, recovery state, my life is pretty big in a great way. (upbeat music) - Who do you look to nowadays to, I mean, is it that the 12 steps that kind of are you're leading light or do you have people or, I mean, obviously, obviously your husband is that few as well. And your children and all of that. But where do you get your kind of? - My God, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks. Your God hit. - Which I still have trouble with the word sometimes because of the dogma behind it. - Sure. - And I was not raised that way. I was raised pretty much as a socialist. - It's not a bad way to go. - Not a bad way to go, but no religious dogma at all. So yeah, I would just say the tenants of a spiritually based program is allows me to not live afraid. And the way that I do that are all the, you know, I learned in 12 step rooms. I learned about taking life in small pieces because if I take them in too big a piece, I'll get scared. I'll project out and it won't be good. You know, I'll go all the way there. So I would say that I'm very much in that community. I stay in the middle of all that and I work with other people and I don't forget where I came from. And, you know, I got pretty dark for me there for a minute. And so I, this is what I know about all addiction. It all is in my brain. It's not about any substance. All the substances are filling the same space. So yeah, I guess that's sort of my, you know, and I just have a faith that, you know, faith is believing in things you cannot see. Faith is saying, you know, I'm gonna turn the lights which on and it's all gonna work. And I don't see the wires. I don't know what's happening. So I tend to, I like to go there. That's where I, but I have to do it kind of daily. I'll forget. Huh. I know it's kind of like. (laughs) This is what I love about acting. 'Cause really good acting. And especially on film, 'cause you can see it, is the moment, you know, your goal is to be in the moment. Literally not really knowing even though you have the technique to know that you have more lines coming up or whatever. But to genuinely be in the moment, not do anything until you make me do it, you know. So I'm not giving a demonstration of how it is to be in this moment, but I am literally in that moment. It's very rare. For me, it's 50/50 at best. And you, and when I'm in the moment, I'll go, wow, fuck 'em, look at this, I'm in the moment. And boom, you know, I'm in the moment. Which is life, you know. That's a total life. It really is. It absolutely is. And, you know, as an actor, you know, you have to say sort of, it's like the first time you've said something and you've just really said it 25 times. Yeah. So yeah, it's a hard road to maintain. Yeah. Yeah, life is like that too. You know, I find that in my, you know, I think the main thing I probably worry about in my life these days is the future of my children, you know, what I mean. Like you know what to mean. Yeah, like wanting their lives to be as much as I say that we learn so much from adversity. But you know, you want their lives to be comfortable and not too bumpy and all the things. And so I have to really practice that concept of, you know, one moment at a time with them as well because I can project way into the, you know, I can just tell myself scary stories. Absolutely. You got yours. Yes. And I didn't have the parental guidance that they, you know, my parents were gone by the time I was 25. And I pretty much raised myself anyways, what I would say. Yeah. And so it's an interesting mix to be the parent of grown children and support and paint pictures of good things rather than put my anxiety on them. Do you know anyone? Yeah, we have one of our kids is leading a life where sometimes I go, I am so fearful and I want to, no, no, but then as Mary will point out, no, that's you putting yourself into their life and going, this is unbearable. I couldn't live that way. Not so for our child, quite capable to live within that construct. And you know, you're just trying to make her constrict. You're in whatever. That's what we do as humans. for like, you know. know, and we repeat, we, yes, I'm the same way. And as is my husband, where would just be like, well, they must be feeling the way I felt when I was that age. Yeah. They're not feeling that way. Or the guilt we have our generation of, oh, this world we're leaving them, you know, or AI and all of these things that are genuinely fearsome. Yeah. You know, forget about all that climate change is fearsome. And it don't really care what your political Latina is. It's marching along. Yep. So there's a lot of fearsome stuff. But they'll manage it. They'll handle it. They'll, yeah, maybe they're the ones that are that are going to figure it out. Yeah. And so it's kind of our arrogance as parents, you know, it's like we know better, especially boomers, you know, oh, yeah, we're past the baton, not a fucking chance. No, no, no, that's right. I still got it. That's exactly right. I totally agree with that. And so, yeah, it's kind of like, you know, with age, you get wisdom is what I think. But, but you also have to remain teachable and humble and all those things, rather than shoving your wisdom down everybody's throat. You know, it's like, because that's how you stay stuck, you know, that, you know, that once again, that trope of what getting older means. I think getting older has to be, you have to remain curious. You have to remain like open, like I have a lot of young friends. I don't know if you and Mary do, but I hang with like younger people. Yeah. And I, and I feel like one of, I mean, I don't, you know, I learned so much from them. Yeah. You know, and their perspective and their lives. And, but, you know, so, and your children, I mean, our kids, which is, yeah, sometimes, you know, we feel not included, but 90% of the time were included in their young friends lives as well. Absolutely. And I'm sure they love to hang out with you, your kids, you know, because, you know, that's just, it's an interesting, you can be supportive and also be, um, just, uh, not arrogant. Not, I don't even know how to put it any other way, but I remember my parents, like, this is the way it is. This is the how, you know, and even though I didn't live long enough for me to really, you know, get in there. But I, you know, I, I, I find it very different now. I just, I'm not that way. Plus, I find younger people right now, since they went through the pandemic. Yeah. Most of the younger people, and I'm talking like late 20s, early 30s, they feel like they're behind. They feel like, you know, two years behind, they've missed it. And, and they'll forget that they did miss two years. It's not that you're behind. It's that the world fucking stopped. So, um, I, I do, I think that, that the example of longevity and whatever, you know, your career, your family, whatever, I mean, I had a child at 52 through a surrogate, but I became a mother again at 52. And, you know, that's like, wait, wait, I just let that in. 52. Yeah. My husband is six years younger than I am. And this is my third husband. And he kind of was, he was Sarah and Jackson's stepdad. And when we met, he was like, I don't want, I don't want any having any kids. And I was like, okay, because I have about five minutes left. If you want to have kids. And then about five years in, we started really talking about it. And so we did the whole surrogate process. And, and he, that's what happened. And so, and did I feel like, and who is that? This is Esme. Esme. My sweet Esme, who's 19. And just, you know, she's my favorite right now. Kids, I love you. You're right now. That's the key things to take away now. Yeah. So, yeah. So, I think that what you're saying is correct. It's like, you know, you, we continue to live life. Yeah. We don't just fold up and die. I mean, I, I think Jane fond is, you know, she's, yeah. You know, like somebody's so to look up to. Yeah. She pisses me off. Really? Yeah. Cause she keeps going. No, because you keep comparing. I compare myself to her. And I go, well, you're sure a slacker Ted. No, I think you're doing just fine. I am. I am. But tell me about this moment, because I read, you incurred did an evening, um, uh, uh, describe it. Sorry. I, I, I came as a chorus, harmonia is what it was called. It started about a year ago. I, you know, all these years, whenever I'm not active, whatever, I always have a band. I go out and play. I go out and play clubs. So this year, I was like, I really want to sing and I want to be in a choir. I want to just sing with other people and I couldn't find a choir. So I just put one together in my living room. And I got together 11 singers from different friends from not audition, you know, just people that would, like, you know, kind of come together. And I started picking material, contemporary material, without the intent. Here's what it came out of. I was so despondent in the early 25 of what the fuck was going on. I had to do something to sort of make myself feel better. So music has always been the thing. So I started picking songs that eventually, they didn't tell a literal story, but they told an emotional story. It became an arc of kind of how messed up things are to like, what are we going to do about it to like, we've been messed up before to like, we have to stick together. So it became all the music was sort of leaning itself that way. And then I wanted to share it in a way. I didn't, this was the great lesson. I had no end game in sight. This was about let's all get together in my living room. And we're going to sing. And I found a vocal arranger who put together some arrangements. And before I know it, knew it, it became like, we decided to make it like a theater piece. And my husband stepped in. And he wrote almost like a Greek chorus. These things that I would say, little interstitial things between the music. And then we put like a multimedia component to it where we showed images that didn't literally go with the music, but went with the emotional arc. I hope this is not too complicated. No, no, no, it's exactly what it was. It became this beautiful thing that we did at a little theater in Hollywood at the Hudson Theater. And the intent of it was to make people feel, make me feel that I'm not alone, that there is hope that the world has been in horrible places before. And we have survived. And so the little show became that. It was a 66 minutes of music and feels is what we called it. And music and and feels. Yeah, because it's a very emotional. It's not like a play. I don't even know what you call it. It's not a musical. It's not a play. It's a it's a it's a it's a piece. Yeah. And so we performed it about two months ago. We we performed we did like 10 performances of it. And people walked out really feeling hopeful in a very dark time. And I did too. And that was it was kind of selfishly motivated. I was just like, you know, but when you sing with people that choir energy, that vibration is very healing and very community. It's like it's just it just gives you that sense of not being alone. It's really especially when you blend your voices into one sound. And that was the intent. And that's what it is. And now we might we might move it. We might do somewhere else. Yeah, it was really. It is what you're describing is literally what the world needs lots of things, including Jane jumping on the ramparts. But it also needs giving people a sense of community. Uh-huh. Not just because the world is focacac politically. But because the you know, technology is leading us into not feeling community. So you're spreading community. You're spreading that love and hope and everything that music does just naturally. I think it's brilliant what you did. And I hope you do do it again. Yeah. And it was in a very not like sappy way. Yeah. Like you got the message. You get the message from your yeah from inside without somebody preaching to you and telling you it was it really my husband who's a really good writer. He just came up. He just pieced it all together. Yeah, which is brilliant because music penetrates everybody. But if you put an opinion out there, then you got pushback. You know, this was I mean, it's really how we feel about the world. So I feel about the world. I'm sure you do too. It's just so fucking divisive. It's just, you know, split. It's oh. Yeah. Yeah. Can I ask you what it supported? Did you write? Oh yes. Is that right? We gave all the proceeds to wounded warriors, which is a vet. An amazing organization. An amazing vet organization. And then Sherlock, which is an organization for immigrant rights. And so we donated the whole thing. We just, you know, it was really like, we didn't, we have no ambition for it, which was one of the first things I've done, 'cause I'm a very ambitious person, career-wise. You know, I'm just always like, I've just a little bit like this step leads to, so this was a real lesson in doing something just for the sake of doing it. This was not about getting it somewhere. Making it something. - I kind of feel that's what I'm doing with this podcast. For me. - Oh, I bet. - For me, I mean, of course, you know, the lure was, oh my God, there's a pot of gold, these things, but that was, you know, 20 years ago or something. And when you go, oh no, that's not it. And then I think about it going away or, you know, not doing it, it would make me very sad because I get to hum a note. - Yeah. - That's my note in life. And hopefully that it'd say, like your music, you know, something that is hopeful and kind. - And we're speaking. - We're human beings talking to each other, you know? Yes, that's why like, Kurt and I have a podcast that's nowhere near this sort of pro level, we do it in our house. And when people want to do it on Zoom, I'm like, yeah, okay, if we have to. But I much prefer, it's all, it's talking to people because we're not super social other than sort of in our little recovery communities. And so it's been really great. So I understand that. - Yeah. - Just to talk and shoot the shit. - Yeah. - I like you. - Oh, yeah. - This is gonna be fun. - I think it's gonna be really fun. - Yes. And I mean, I felt very like a meeting, when I'm, you know, I'm sort of one of those people that most people tell me their life stories really quickly. When I meet people and because I don't know why, I don't know why. It's, but it's kind of like how, remember Rod's that with us? And yeah, yeah, he did. Very sweet. I kind of came into the tail end of that. - That was, yeah. He felt safe. - My first mentor, I walked in and his depth of pain that he came back from, you know, was like, well, why am I not gonna open up? - Absolutely. - And be real if this person is sharing, you know, the depths of real, you know. I so I think that's why people share. - Maybe. And I'm also nosy. I ask a lot of questions. (laughing) I'm really, I sort of, you know, sometimes inappropriately. Like I'll meet somebody and I'll just be like, right into their personal life. You know, got a girlfriend, got a boyfriend. What's up? And, you know, it's sometimes it's intrusive, but most times I find people are happy to talk about themselves. - Yeah. - You know, they really like that. And plus, you know, when you're around, they're, yeah, I'm not good at small talk. I don't even know what small talk is. - I'm not good at small talk. - You know, if somebody says to you, how are you? And your statement is always fine. That feels a little ingenuous to me. Like, I think the answer is like, well, today's okay. But, you know, I think for me, so. - No, I can't wait for you. - And also, yeah, you. - We've met and like, things. - She said, I guess so, because she said, please give you her best. - Yeah, we've met backstage at some bloody blah. So. - I think there is a kindred something because she has a lot of respect for you. - That's great. Well, she plays music. - Or she wouldn't have let me be with you on film, you know. (laughs) - Does she have that kind of say no? - No. - No. - No, she does. (laughs) - Well, you know what? - Mm. - The rest will be in front of a camera. - That's right. And more will be revealed. - Yeah, you're very kind to come in and do this. I really appreciate it. Selfish life for the podcast. I'm saying I really appreciate it. But I love that we got to do this. - I know. I think it'll help us out. - Because on a set, there is, by necessity, sometimes small talk. - Right. - Or talk us interrupt us, you know. You don't get to always go there. And that's a good one. - Talk us interrupt us. Very good. - Yes. - So I really feel, yeah. - That's good. - Because our characters do like each other. - Yeah, we do like each other. - Yeah. - And respect each other. - And we've also started so quickly that it's good to, you know, have a bonding experience. - Yeah, I agree. - So that we, you know. - Because we can't go out and have a drink together. - No, we can't do that. - Which it never was by the way. - I like to eat. (laughs) - Well, I'm on such a bizarre diet. - I'm not on a diet anymore. Thank you. - Thank you. - Yeah. (upbeat music) - Again, what a delight, what a legend. I really enjoyed my time with Katie Segal. Thank you for stopping by, Katie. That's it for this week. Special thanks to Team Coco. If you enjoyed this episode, please send it to a loved one. You know, I say that every week, but I love the thought. Please send this to a loved one if you enjoyed it. Rate and review on Apple Podcasts if you have a mind. Once again, you can watch our full length video episodes at youtube.com/teamcoco. See you next time, where everybody knows your name. (upbeat music) - You've been listening to where everybody knows your name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes. The shows produced by me, Nick Cleow, are executive producers for Adam Sax, Jeff Ross, and myself. Sarah Fettarovich is our supervising producer and engineering mixing by Juana Samuel with support from Edward and Perez. Research by Lysa Grawl, talent booking by Paula Davis and Jean-Betista, our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Gen, Mary Steinberg and John Osborne. (upbeat music) (laughing)