[MUSIC] On today's episode of That Was Us, we're diving in the season 5 episode 4, honestly. This episode explores how patterns repeat across generations. From Kevin confronting childhood pressures and insecurities, to Randall stepping into mentorship and turning an uncomfortable moment into purpose. And Kate and Toby navigating the early steps of adoption. Can I ask you guys to either of you guys sleep train your children? So if you want to get out, I was going to wait until we got to like that part of the thing with you. Well, it kind of comes right up with Jack and Rebecca. So, okay, Jack and Rebecca having a tough time getting sleep. Because evidently Kevin just won't fall asleep. He has not learned how to self-soothe. Okay, which will be the theme of his life. Yeah, he suits with other things, yeah, yeah, yeah. Trying to figure out how to do that. Here's a, oh, say, you're asking the question. I have a, here's the anecdote. So Andrew, we believe in sort of like, go who is your eldest son, who's now 14 years old. Now, we went to remember, we went to midwifery care. Yes. And like went to like all the birth classes, etc. Through the greatest words in the English language. Midwifery? Yeah, it really is. There's something that feels good about it. It rolling off the town. So they talk about co-bedding, co-sleeping, etc. Skin on skin contact, like, you know, bonding with your child. You know, why would you put your child away? This is, this is I think, right? So, we have a bassinet next to the bed. But so normally, so Ryan wants to feed or whatever. She can pull him out. He's right there. Do a side latch by being about a boom. It's good to go, right? So then eventually we start to move him into his crib. And it's not a, it's not a joyous transit. In his own room. In his own room. In his own room. And he would cry or whatnot. And Ryan would be like, he's crying. And I would be like, I know. I said eventually, if he's going to sleep in the bed, like we kind of have to let him do it. And they, they talked us through like, you know, maybe you give him five minutes and then you go in there and let him know that everything's okay. And then eventually six minutes. So, you know, baby steps is a baby, right? Anytime she heard him cry, she had an incredibly visceral reaction. Sure. And I, I'm curious for you guys, you were just a mom, just now. Like, did you just have Gus? No, not yet. Not yet. Yeah, in the show. So they'll come show. So like, so art is preceding life in terms of this timeline, right? But you just have, so I say like, right, we, we got to work on it. Like we're, we're not going to get any sleep at some point in time. Like we got to try, right? Like, I think people, I think fathers are always sort of talking about this push towards independence, right? And mothers are trying to take care of like, but this is what's happening now. I need to tend to what's happening now. So I said, right, I will sit in the room with him. But you have, you have to go away. I think I can tell that this is hard for you. I will sit here with him and let him know that I'm there. So my man, Andrew Jason Sterling Brown is in this crib. I lay him down in the crib and dim the lights of what not. And he's like, what's going on? And by what's going on, I mean, my man is grabbing these things. Like he is incarcerated. Looking through the screen, he's like, why won't you come get me? In baby language, when he comes out, yeah, right? I was like, I'm writing daddy's right here, man, right? And then Ryan keeps bugging, barging into the room. I said, Ryan, not help it. I need you to go. Ryan leaves the house, goes outside, walks around to the window. And it's just staring through. And it's just like, my baby, my baby, I'm so sorry. I guess it would have been a great scene in our actual show. And if all the babies weren't on the second level of this house, wouldn't they upstairs? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, if you'd appeared at the second level, second three, we'd have a whole new story, but not even good. But it was, and the episode sort of like highlighted for me, this idea that like, they need both of them. I think both of these episodes together, 503 and 504, is sort of like, you see Rebecca just being like, "Listen, man, like what's without being said?" It's like, this child is a part of me. This child grew inside of me. When it hurts, when he hurts, I hurt. I hurt, yes. Right? Versus like, dad being like, "I know, but at a certain point, like he has to be able to work through that hurt." And nobody's wrong. No, you know what I'm saying? Like both of mom's and dad's, that balance is important. So for you guys, as you like, now that you. Yeah, I'm curious. Like, how do you do? You guys sleep train? We did. Yeah. I don't want to speak too far out of school, but we used the same sleep trainer that Dan and Kate used. Okay. And it was a wild experience, because it was pandemic. Yeah. It was bringing another person into the house. Oh, yeah. And this lady came, but she's very talented. Yeah. Was she like the British woman from ABC back in the day? Kind of. Okay. A little, a little Mary Poppins-ish, and she showed up with her bag. And was like, "Well, have I have everything under control?" But she is not English, she's from Arizona. And so she drove from Arizona. Oh, wow. Because she'd want to fly. Yeah. And she goes, "I, whatever I come in, I help." And I, but it's a minimum of five days or whatever. So she's staying in our house. Oh, wow. We were done sleep training bear after the first night. And she was, she just like stayed? Because you had that minimum of five nights. And after the third night, we're like, "I think you could go now." Because she was just, she was just, and she was totally fine, just in the guest room, never leaving the guest room, having like door-dashed food deliver. And, oh, wow. And then, but what is it about the first night? Like, like, he got it. He just got it. He just locked in, like, "I got it. Oh, you want me to sleep?" But it was, it was, it was a lot of pain. Like, she was essentially, she was essentially the door blocker. Yeah. She was like, what she did teach us is the difference between, between a baby that's trying to self-sooth by crying. And a baby that is dysregulated. Yeah, okay. And just, that is, that is past the point of regulation. You need to go in. But then she showed us these techniques. And it was interesting because all we did was watch on the camera. Yeah. Which, thinking about, like, old school being, but even now, I think about, like, not being able to, like, looking and check real quick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, parents. All I do all night, yeah. Yeah, parents being like, what's going on in there? Yeah, I hope everything's okay. I don't hear anything. Like, are you joking me? How did they do it? How did they live? How did they sleep? I would never. And here we are. I know. And here we are. Totally. We survived. And so we, she helped us out figure that out. I did think about that, though, when we were watching this back, I was like, oh, I had no point of reference for, like, how hard this really is. Yeah. Because they didn't have children. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just, like, this theory floating around. I'm like, oh, yeah. But it's, I bet it's so hard when you're being, right? You wanting to go in that, you know what I mean? And now I'm like, oh, shit. I know exactly what this is like. We sleep-trained Gus. Same. It was, like, he got it. I think the first, he definitely got it, like, the first night. Yeah. Maybe we made it up to, like, 10 minutes or something, but he eventually fell asleep. And I know it is a very controversial thing. Yeah. There are people who are pro-sleep training and against sleep training for our family. It was the greatest thing we could have done. Gus and Ozzy both are incredible sleepers. And I feel like it gave them the foundation for everything. We all, they all have sleep progressions and whatnot. But like, they have always been great at sleeping. As mom versus dad. Yeah. Was there a different sort of, like, temperament? Yes, it's way harder. You have that invisible tether as a mom to your baby, who was inside your body. And it is just, like, it's impossible to, like, you know when they need something before they even voice it, right? So it's like, so hearing them have to learn how to sue themselves is. It's so hard. And I totally respect and understand how for some parents and some mothers in particular, it's just a bridge too far. They just cannot take hearing their baby cry. Because it is like, it was an hour or an hour and a half of just, like, pure, unadulterated, like, like, you feel this, like, electrical charge in your body. Like, this feels so unnatural. But I know I'm doing the right thing. I'm trusting that this is the right thing and it ended up being wonderful. And then we didn't even have to sleep, train Lou because she's a perfect angel, baby. And she was like, I got this. Oh, you need me to sleep? I think it's the same for EFI. I have a no recollection of it. Yeah, that she was well-girls. You guys were there? They're here. Until they hit 12 and 13. Sure. You pay your taxes early with boys. You pay your taxes later on with girls. God bless Lou. God bless Lou. But I can absolutely relate to Rebecca feeling the connection between your kid and the ache and the pain of hearing your child need you.
and the compulsion to go and help them. - Yeah. - And stopping yourself. Like I remember those like that initial first like five, you know, I think you wait like five minutes, right? You let them cry it out for five minutes before you go in and you spend a minute in there and you sue them and you let them know that you're there and they know how to sleep and you're in the next room or whatever it is. But I remember like those first five minutes and I'm like (laughing) like weeping at a tailor and I like squeezing hands like it was horrific and it only lasted for, you know, an hour or something tops. But and then it was great. And then we never had to deal with that again. But. - I gotta tell you, but though it's good to hear from you because I witnessed Ryan Michelle go through a very similar sort of experience and I think I had not the most compassion for her experience vis-a-vis mine. - More or less than Jack Pearson. - 'Cause Jack was trying to hold a line but he was also pretty compassionate about that. - He did, like if I ever like put my body between Ryan Michelle and her children, I don't think I'd still have a body. (laughing) She's like, bro, you're not blocking the door. - Yeah. - You know what I'm saying? I don't care how loving you though. I need you to move so I can get to my child, you know what I'm saying? But like it is a different experience. Like that connection, that tether is real. - Yes. - And for nine months before we even get a chance to participate in what Fatherhood begins for you. - Immediately. And there's understanding. There's understanding that I could have had and hopefully people who watch the show will have with each other. 'Cause it goes both ways too. Because he had Jack is saying like, look, at a certain point he has to be able to do certain things for himself, right? So it's all about balance. Who needs, who your kids need at what time? Like if they want to play, if they want a challenge or something, like they usually come to me. And they're like, if they want to be taken care of, right? They're not usually asking me for band-aids and for ointment and stuff. They're like, mom, I was like, I do know where the stuff is and I know how to apply it. But I'm not the dude that they're coming to. And I think for her, for Ryan, she'll be like, I can have fun, but they ain't coming to her for that. Like it's interesting. - And it's interesting to watch Jack and Rebecca sort of toggle back and forth between this. Like Rebecca is like, I can't do this. I don't want to do this. I want to get in this room. And Jack sort of like you said, lovingly holds her at bay until the very end of the episode, we see Jack about to give in. Like I can't hear him cry like this. She's right. This is insufferable. We need to, like I don't know how we're gonna get past this juncture, and he's about to open the door just as Kevin stops crying. - He figures it out. - He figures it out. - He figures it out. It's good. So let's do Kevin, let's do Kevin present day then. - Do you want to do the teens maybe like, the, the, - Let's talk about the 13 year olds. - Kevin's trying to bulk up. My man is like eating 50 eggs. His coach told me I need 50 eggs. - And then Jack makes a ref. - Nobody can eat 50 eggs. - Yeah, it makes a ref into cool hand Luke. - Yeah. - Real quick. Oh goodness. Have you seen cool hand Luke? - No. - Nine of the days right now. - No, no, no, no. - It is a good move. - No, no, I'm sure, I'm sure. - 'Cause it was like, no. - But it was also, Jack Pearson turning to a room of teenagers being like, you guys haven't seen cool hand Luke? - Yeah. - Like, no. - No, they haven't seen cool hand Luke. - That's like him turning to me. - Yeah. - That's so nice. - What? You ever seen this movie? No. - So he's, he's bulking up. What is going on with Kate and Randall in this time period here? Is anything going on with him? Or is it really just focusing on Kev? - It's kind of focusing on Kev. - It's focused on Kev because he sort of burned the candles on both ends. He's trying to get his body together and he's also trying to like memorize the playbook, which depending on what offense you're playing in can be immense. - Yeah. - And so they wound up taking them to practice. And Jack goes to pick them up and the coach, isn't the coach on Friday night lights? - Yeah. - Isn't Kev the older brother? Isn't Kev Tim's, he's on Friday night lights. He plays the older brother to Taylor Kitt. - George Eads. - Yeah. - Wait. - George Eads. - Is that right? - We're looking at that. - Oh wait, no, Jordan, you know who George Eads is? CSI. - CSI. - Wow, totally different. - CSI. - Never mind. - Not Friday night lights, CSI. - Colleges, he reminded me of the older brother. - Friday night crime scene investigation. (laughing) - I watch Eads. - CSI high school football. - But he was great. He was like this day at the very sort of like, you know, adult men, you know what I'm saying? I had these kids, they're trying to figure it out. You could be a boy who's got potential, but he doesn't know to play a book. And he's like really? - Yeah. - And he's like, I can't recommend him for this spot at football camp, unless he's-- - I got kids who were putting in work on this like seven days a week and Jack was like, oh, he's like, he'll put in work, right? And it turns out playing quarterback takes some book smarts. - Takes some ability to study. - There you go, there you go. So we get home and he's like, he's like, well let's go work on the thing with Jigger. And Rebecca's like, you know, he just got home. - He's tired. - He's exhausted, right? And he's like, yeah, he'll be all right. And he's like, Kev's like, look, I don't want to do this anymore. I want to play football. - I'm just going to quit. - Yes, too much, too much. - You're not going to quit. Now I'm curious because I have gone through this a little bit with, I don't know, you guys are a little bit younger. But have you and your partner discussed like, if you put your child in something, what agency they have to step out, tap out, or to finish or tap out once they've finished? Like, you have any thoughts on this? - I don't know. - But the conversation that you will ultimately have to have. - Rachel and I have actually had a full-on conversation about competitive sports, period. - Okay, 'cause you guys are both competitive at this. - Yes. - And what it did to us mentally and our relationships to our bodies. - Nobody had a positive relationship. - Not really. - Not the one, yeah. - Not particularly. - And so. - What was it at your direction now? Was it like, I love tennis. I'm good at tennis. - Good question. - I want to do this. I'm told by family, but you know. - In a way. It was, it was, it was, I'm good at tennis. So that makes it easier to participate in. Like, I'm good at this. But there was some unspoken pressure about the amount of time and money and that has been put towards this thing. And it's like, you know, it's like one of those good money after bad type things, where you're like, well, I've been playing for this long. - Yeah. - Oh, now I got a scholarship to college. Okay, well, now that's money. Now I'm getting paid to play this. - Did you play through Loyola? You play, okay. - And just through freshman year. - Okay. - And then ended up quitting. But it was, it was more about like, there's a real, for, for she and I, there's a, there's a point, where you have to figure out the cost benefit of dedicating your young life and body to an activity that is going to have long term consequences. (buzzer) Because if you're, if you're doing this just for something to do. - Yeah. - And go find another hobby. - Go do, go do anything else. Like, or if you're gonna have, we're gonna have to look at our kids and be like, listen, I know you wanna be a professional basketball player. - Right. - But you're just not gonna be. - Sure. - Like, I don't know what to say. Like eventually the system will weed you out, but also like, what can, it's so complicated for us. And it's so complicated, especially when somebody says, 'cause even at a, as a five year old bear is like, I don't wanna do this anymore. - Right. - Okay, well, do you not wanna do it because you don't wanna do it or you do not wanna do it because it's challenging you. - You're frustrated, yeah. - And trying to like, navigate. - Totally. - Which is which. - What's a fixed mindset? What's a growth mindset? - Right. - What is I'm just, cheerily tired? - Yeah. - Because I want to listen to my children. - Yeah. - But you also can't put all of your, your faith in the opinion of a five-year-old. - They're still children. - Yeah. - Like, where's this coming from? It takes a lot of interpretation. - More that was us after the short break. I don't know about you, but Candy Nostalgia is very real for me. The stuff you grew up eating somehow sticks with you forever. - Come on, man. There's Halloween, Easter, Valentine's Day. There was always that one candy you hoped to get and the ones you trade away immediately. - Yeah. - What do you hope to get? - I like a Reese's. I like a peanut butter M&M. Like it's peanut butter and chocolate. - A peanut butter and chocolate's my, like all day on that toe. - Anything peanut butter and chocolate. - Yeah, we're all on the same boat. - Absolutely. - Yeah, the trades were serious. Yeah, to know the value system. The ups and downs, right? - Oh, yeah. And that is why I love our new sponsor Unreal. So they have taken those Nostalgic chocolate classics and they have reinvented them with only the good stuff. - Unreal. - So simple ingredients, whala, sugar, and somehow, they still taste amazing. - That's the key right there, man, anymore. Unreal is committed to making chocolate that's better for you without sacrificing taste. They spend over a decade proving that you don't need overly processed sugar for something to be truly delicious. - And the taste really holds up. - Yeah. - It's unreal.
the dark chocolate peanut butter cups. - I like that. - We were just talking about the dark chocolate coconut bars, the caramel peanut nugget bars. How do you say nugget? - Nugget. - Nugget. - Nugget. - Nugget. They hit that same nostalgic craving just without the junk. - I love the peanut butter cups. - That's it, yeah. - Those are my favorite, yeah. Period at the end, they're better than the classic in my opinion. - 'Cause you're using dark chocolate. - You're using dark chocolate and it doesn't have any of the bad stuff in there. - So everything Unreal makes is fair trade certified, gluten-free, non-GMO, and kosher. No artificial preservatives, flavors, or colors, and almost everything they make is vegan too. - You can find Unreal wherever cravings hit, including whole foods, target Costco, and other grocery stores. - Oh, and as a special offer for our listeners, visit unrealsnacks.com/twu to get $2 off a bag of Unreal terms and conditions apply. - There's a point in adult life, which we see a lot on the show, when you're constantly coming and going. Work trips, school breaks, long weekends, that turn into full weeks. - You know, this year's particularly special for me and my wife. I'm turning 50 years old. I have a 20 year wedding anniversary. So I am already on the lookout for how I need to celebrate these momentous occasions. - We're planning a couple of trips pretty far out. We're planning on going to Portland, to hang out with some family friends, maybe out to the east coast to work on a movie. I don't want to bring the whole family with me. And we may be looking at Airbnb in our place for the LA Olympics. - We are starting to think about spring break. We're already sort of looking into the future and thinking about summer plans. All of this is made so much easier with the one travel essential we require, which is Airbnb. - And during those stretches, your home is just sitting empty waiting for your return. Hosting your home on Airbnb can fit naturally into that rhythm and is a practical way to make use of your space. - Airbnb's co-host network makes hosting easier than ever, connecting you with experienced local hosts who can help keep everything running smoothly while you're away. - A co-host can help manage reservations, message guests, provide design and styling, and even be there on the ground. So the stay runs smoothly. Hosting can also bring in a little extra cash that helps offset travel or makes those trips feel more manageable. - It's a way to share your space while you're off making memories somewhere else. - If you're ready to host, but want a little extra piece of mind, find a co-host at airbnb.com/host. (gentle music) - All right, so I never to the level of you or Rachel, I played basketball, played football, Ultimate Frisbee, little track, et cetera. And I think for me, it is the commitment, 'cause you guys, those are two individual sports, even though you could say that there's a team aspect to gymnastics, but you're out there performing on a solo basis. There is the accountability to a group of people that you've made a promise to, right? And sort of that is a lesson that I think has served me throughout life. 'Cause I think there's really no difference between a team and a cast. Like they're the same things. You guys are out there for a common purpose and you depend on each other. So the idea of just saying, like, I'm tapping out, is like, could you imagine if like any of us just be like, I can't make it today, guys. I'm just not feeling it. - No. - Come on, bro. If you're sick, that's when we have the conversation is like, are you hurt or are you injured? If you are hurt, you go out there and play. If you are injured, you go take care of yourself because you physically cannot do it. And then in terms of just, what does it mean to finish what you start, right? And you don't wanna be diabolical and you don't wanna be sort of dogmatic and just sort of like make things unfun. But if your child is the person that said that they wanted to do something, right? Then sometimes they do need help to see their commitment through to the end. - Right, yeah. - I'm following your lead here, Big Dog. You know what I'm saying? It's not dad pushing something on you but you said, I wanna do this. Part of wanting to do this entails that. - Yeah, I can't count on you. How many times have I heard, I don't wanna go to school? And then at the end of the day, I've had such a good time. - Yeah, I could count on you. - You know what I mean? So it's like, - You don't wanna go to school, I don't wanna go to jail. (laughing) - Yeah. (laughing) - It's gonna figure itself out. - So what, talking to me though, the Kev over here, like we were saying, right? He sent him upstairs, Rebecca and Jack have a bit of an argument. She's like, I wish you would have talked to me before you just start doing stuff. The boy does not wanna play this anymore. I'm going upstairs and telling them. - It's okay. - That he didn't have to do it. And he's like, I strongly, what was the word? He said, - I suggest there's something. - I strongly suggest to urge that you don't. It was something like that. - It's right here. - It's the wording of it. I am strongly asking you, what was, oh, I am strongly asking you not to do that. - He said that, that, that, there's so many fights that would happen between Batman Brown that magically did not happen between. - No, but that was, I mean, that was extremely woke in the 1990s. - It was, it was back when we were after the 1990s. - What a compassionate way for a father to speak. - But I'm only asking you. - Not to do that. - Because, because, because for Jack Pearson, that was, that was like, I'm not trying to pick a fight. Like the language that he had available for me is like, I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I do see like this kid right now is not used to pushing through things. - Right. - That was what he's trying to say. And you were trying to say, well, why does he have to push through anything? He's not enjoying himself, right? I want him to be happy now, right? And I think that's oftentimes, right? What happens between moms and dads, right? So, unbeknownst to them, poor guy standing in the stairwell and he's listening to this. And he's like, my dad thinks that I'm soft. And I had like, ooh, yeah. Couldn't imagine. - Yeah, yeah, it's a rough one for me. - That's it. - Were you a dad for like the dude in your life who you think is just everything? - On a pedestal, yeah. To think that you are just like not cutting a mustard? - Yeah. - So my man goes into his bedroom and he'd already talked, he'd been making fun of Randall earlier. Randall tried to help. - Who suggested flashcards? - There's this moment where you see Kev go into the bedroom and Randall is studying. And he's like, will you show me what you're doing with all these colored cards, right? And he's like, I know you're setting up some sort of joke or whatever, so I'm not gonna fall for it. I'm just throwing my stuff. He's doing this thing. And then he, Kev sits down next to me and goes, no, I'm serious, Randall. I need your help. And that was, I was like, - Okay. - I don't know if Kevin Pearson has said that to Randall Pearson. I felt like a first. - Well, and this is the excellent writing of the This Is Us team addressing the difference between the version of the idea of masculinity that we were raised with. And what it truly means to be a man, right? Like, it used to be that binary. Hard and soft, right? You are either hard and a man or soft and not. And what Jack is identifying as softness, it's actually a young man who is embarrassed, who is nervous, who is doubtful and who doesn't know how to express those things, right? Which is vulnerability, which we've all heard miss Brunei Brown discuss, of modern masculinity involving not bravery but vulnerability, the willingness to do something that scares you anyways or the ability to express yourself. So when he gets up there to talk to his brother and he says, "I need your help." - I mean, that's masculine. That's what it is. - Yes. - Totally, totally. It hit like a ton of breaks. And the next thing you see is that his brother is helping him through with the cards. And mom was about to go upstairs to tell him that like he doesn't have to do it. And then she bore witness to two brothers who historically don't always get along like peas in the problem. - Working together. - Working together, giving each other high fives. And she's like, "Oh." Goes back downstairs, tells her husband, she's like, "You know what, man, maybe you had something to it." Like I was about to go up there. I saw these dudes high fiving each other and things were working out. And even in dad was like, "They high fives each other." - They weren't really slapping each other? - They weren't in a fight. - That was really, that was one of my, are you sure they weren't trying to slap each other in the head? (laughing) That was a good one. - And then to echo sort of like the sleep training with what was happening with the 13 year olds. Like now you see Kev has sort of taken the mantle from his brother and is working on the cards by himself. - He's soothing himself. - Yeah. - As soon as laying in bed. - Embarrassed in front of his coach, 'cause he couldn't pull the thing off. - Yeah. - You know, anxious about knowing what he needs to know. And he's found a way by asking for help to self-soothe and to get himself where he needs to be. - Yeah, to remedy that, sure. - It's beautiful. - So I actually, can we go into present day camp? - Yeah. - Yeah.
- Because he has gotten this new-- - Oh, wow, film. - This new film, not a movie, right? - That's awesome. - Yeah, definitely a film, guys. - This guy's good. - Can I say something? - Yeah, this triggered Brown a little bit. - Oh, has this happened? - Not necessarily that it's happened. - Yeah. - But that attitude, that sort of like, I don't know how I would deal with it. - That attitude is a little schmoo in the back of my head that I think everybody feels towards me. You know what I mean? Like, they never express it. I've never had this situation, but it's almost like this guy was a personification of the actor's nightmare. - Tony, that's what I'm talking about. - That's what I'm talking about, so it's director. - Let's tell them what's happened. Kevin has booked this movie. It's with a three-name film. He's booked this film with a three-name film. - Like Foster something, something, yeah. - He definitely gave him a three-name, a triple-name. - Cole's Foster came. Like, it's something like that, right? - Jordan Martin Foster. - Which had to be Foster. I want to know the writers, if they took those three names from other, like Art Tours, like Jordan Peele Foster. - Martin's gonna say that, yeah, yeah. - And Martin's gonna say that. - I don't know who knows. But like, he goes into, still middle COVID, meets his co-star played by Jamie Chang, very cool. And then the director comes in, he lavishes praise. And it's like, I couldn't have done, I told the studio if we couldn't get you for the movie. - I wasn't gonna do it. - Like, I wasn't gonna do it. It just goes on and on. And Kev. - And leaves Kev hanging. - Stand in there like, okay. - Like, don't even say, like, hey, like just a- - It's intentional, okay. - So awful. - So they decide, they jump into the script, they dive in. They start the scene seems like it's going pretty well. There's this whole part about like, what she says, like, honestly, and he goes, honestly, or just to be honest, usually when people say that, they're about to tell you something that's not the truth. They're about to lie, right? And so every time they get there, foster, or we're not sure what to call them, it's set at this time. - Interrupt them. - Interrupts is like, and then goes, Jamie Chow, you were great. That was wonderful. You give me, like, look very little, - You're giving me everything. - But everything that I need. And let's just take it back, right? So he looks at Kev for a second, but doesn't give him anything. - Yeah. - So like, this happened like three or four times, where he just would do the scene from the beginning. - And for him. - And when they get to the scene. - Kev and his good spot about it. - He would just stop. He's like, can we go take a bag a couple of lines? And you see Kev sort of like, all right. And then eventually, he's like, you know. - What do you know? - What do you know? - What do you know? - You keep interrupting me every time. And he said, I wish I didn't have to. - Yeah. - Listen, I have my own issues with Caucasian people to begin with, but that dude, would've got a knuckle. - Oh, sandwich. - Open face. - Open face? - No, no, no. - No, a knuckle. - Let me tell you something. - This is the open face sandwich. - Yeah. - Because I don't think I've been thankfully, I've not had this experience. And you guys tell me if you had one, where you just got little to nothing from a director, where, and they seem content, not to give you anything, but for you to live inside of your head, wondering what is it that I'm not giving them that keeps making them stop. I've never had that. Now, I've heard of people doing lots and lots of takes. I've actually heard a story relatively recently, Mandy Moore, who we'll talk about later, where actors are sort of getting put through the paces and not giving any information as to what's, that's mean. - Yeah. - Yeah. - That's mean. And this may be sort of inside of a baseball, and I just want to sort of like clarify to people, like if you've never been in that situation, 'cause some people would be like, "Oh, well, you just want to do it again." I don't know. Now, dude, tell me what's happening. - Yeah, right? - Tell me why. - Otherwise, let me finish the whole deck I'm seeing. - Yeah. - And then come at me with something. - Yeah. - I didn't like it. - You need communication. - Yeah, that's what I'm saying. - That's the word you're talking about. - Like, I just want communication. I don't want someone to come and pat me on the back of you. Like, that was great. Like, I don't need that. - Yeah. - But I want to know that you are getting what you need. - Right. - And if you're not, tell me what you need. - Totally. - Tell me what you want me to do differently. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - It's the directors that just do take after take after take after take after take after take and don't tell you why. - Yeah. - There's no communication. So you as an actor are like floating out in the water. Like, hello? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Anybody, is it for camera? Is it a background actor? Is it a, we just light it like what needs to change? Just let me know. - Yeah. - Just say that much. Like, oh, we had a background actor that took the wrong cue or something. We're gonna go from the top again. - Yeah. - Great. - I just wanna know, like, am I, because if I'm not giving you what you need, I want to remedy that. - Totally. - Give me the chance to do that. - Yeah. - So, Kev is waiting outside of stage is 30, 31 of Paramount Lot, which is where we would shoot our show and actuality. And he's waiting for the director to come out, director comes out and he's like, "Hey, man, I just wanna know like they're called you foster or call you by your other two names, et cetera." And my man takes his mask off and he's like, you waited out here to ask me that? Like, just like, not giving them much at all. And he's like, I was just wondering, like, you know, what could I do to, you know, make it better? Like, I wanna give you what you want. Basically, is what he's talking about. And he says something to the effect of like, I learned today that you are a good actor, right? Right? And he said, but you could be great. And today is the day that you decide whether or not, this is the closest you come to greatness, or you actually decide to put it back tomorrow. And it right, come back tomorrow. And he says, I'll see you tomorrow. That's just, he says, I'll see you tomorrow. And you see, Kav, go home with his script, with his color cards working over like just intentions, beats, whatever it is that he's working on. He's like, you ain't gonna break me, dog. - Yeah. - Now, he wouldn't break me either, but I'm, I hate that he had to get to that point through that, do she direct his brain? And shout out to the actor, 'cause he did a good job. He did a good job. He was the obstacle that he was meant to be to further my man in his progress. Because I think sometimes comfort stands in the way of evolution. - Mm-hmm. - Right? And all the things that we think about in terms of even in the past, in terms of what we want for our children is to make them feel good. And sometimes allowing them in a safe space to be uncomfortable is the thing that allows them to become the next best version of themselves, right? So I like the storyline. It's that I like seeing, you know, Kevin as a baby and Kevin, who we never actually see, but then the teenager and then Justin sort of like me. Like, you know what? People thought I was soft at one point in time. Like I heard my dad tell me that won't, not tell me, but say that to my mom. I'm gonna show y'all what soft is. - Yeah. Like the dude who's been underestimated or what and I was like, I got a little bit more to me than what y'all think, right? - I dig it. - Yeah. - I dig it. - Really good. - Who should we go to now? - Randall. - What's going on here? - Modern day. - What's happening? - Besides, he's gonna allow Malik to-- - Yes. - To Shadow. - Wow. - To Shadow who's worth it. - This was like some pre-shower, Paradise, Shower episode three, Randall Sterling vibes. - That gave Dan the idea for Paradise. - Oh, that's right. 'Cause that's right. I did hear that. I did hear it. - There is such joy that I derive in messing with Lyric as Randall messing with Deja. The idea of spending all day with her boyfriend and just like, what's going on in her mind? What is he gonna tell him? What is he gonna do? He better not be doing it. And like, I can see like on her face. She's like, you are way having way too much fun with this. And the truth of the matter was the actor was having too much fun. - And so-- - Everybody. - All of it was Randall. - Randall, everyone. - Especially when Randall gets that-- (laughing) - Yeah. - That's a good technical. - It's good time. Malik comes, he's like six minutes late, Randall messes with them a little bit, but doesn't give him too much of a hard time. They go to the office and Malik's falling asleep, having a little brief with Jay Wan figure out what we got to do for the rest of the day. Jay Wan's got to leave, and normally I do this-- - It was a riveting briefing. - It was riveting. - Yeah. - And by riveting, not riveting. - You do a live stream. - I do a live stream every day, just sort of like updating people with what's happening and how they can get involved and et cetera, et cetera. Jay Wan can't do it, say Malik, can you like just, all you got to do is press play, turn it on, and stop after I say this certain line, and Malik knows the line is like, get the heck out of here. Randall does this thing, and he's talking about his connection to the community and how these are the people of his father's people. I'm William Hill's son, and because of that, you guys are my people as well. - Doing this. - For William and the hell. - Doing this for William Hill, right? - Meanwhile, Malik is distracted. - Malik. - In the other room. - Talking to his mom, evidently, his daughter doesn't have something, I don't know if it's formula or something,
but like, he's just trying to put out fires to make sure that his daughter's been taken care of and that his mom isn't feeling overwhelmed by getting that, right? He finishes it, he knows he's gonna go for a jog after he's finished with the thing. He says the line gives a little bit of beat, starts to change his clothes, right? - Malik does not turn off the live broadcast because he is distracted. And Randall begins to get changed. He has a little song for folding his shirt, which I missed, which was really. Meanwhile, as we have found earlier in this scene that Malik has accidentally admitted that deja watches these live broadcast every day. - Yes. - Which he was not supposed to talk about. - He wasn't supposed to say anything. And deja is watching the feed unfold as Randall is. - And she's like, oh no, a tonal. Undressing and doing little shimmy and shake. - Also, that was the slowest undress of all time and like, dude, why were going out for a jog? I'd be like, let me tell you something. There are different takes, different things. I think it was, is this Ken, is this Ken the director? - I think it's Ken. - Yeah, Ken was like, slow it down. - He was. - He was like, slow way. - Is it sterile? We're gonna need a little, 'cause we're gonna have to cut back to this footage or whatever, so if you get like, find a way to sort of embellish it, make it last, then I was like. - I'm gonna have to cut back. - We're gonna have to cut back to this. So if you could slow it way down for the audience. - For the audience. - And that's exactly what it was. I was like, all right, this feels like a little much, guys. But, all right, dude, look, man. - Why is he dancing? - I don't know what that is, but that's not dancing. - Sometimes you got a shimmy. - Yeah. - Listen, because now that I have a stylist and you have these things on the red carpet or whatnot, let me, let me, so this is true story, true story. - Please, as a child, Brown was a fan of the sack, right? Would wear things only with like 36 in the waist. Brown's waist is not 36, probably around like a 32, something like that. - See, oh, you liked the pants sacking. - I need to breathe in these extremities. Now when you get like the stylist on you or whatnot, you get-- - They want the tights. - You get hollered like putting clothes on you. - Yeah. - They like best stuff, nug. - Yeah. - So then your boy, actually. - Has to shimmy out a little bit. - I got a shimmy out of this car, yes. When only it just sort of drops down from my wardrobe. - Yes. - But now that I'm like wearing clothes that fit, I just always laugh at women. I was like, "Why y'all wearing stuff like?" 'Cause women wear stuff that fit. I'm now wearing clothes that fit, and I have to shimmy a little bit more than I'm kind of into it. - You want stuff that hugged your body? - I suppose. - But the live stream has gone out to the entire city of Philadelphia. - Anyone that's watching? - Anyone that's watching, and we want to skip ahead when J-1 calls. - Sure. - Just follow this through, no, 'cause that's the-- - So before that, there's just sort of a conversation between Malik and Randall, going like, "Look, bro, you asked me to be here. You were late, you fall in the sleep, and jump." - Ting my ass here to do, and you can't get it done, right? Count. And it said, "Listen, Mr. Pearson, you know, I'm sorry, I'm deeply apologetic. You know, like, how early I have to wake up in order to get to you six minutes late? I had to wake up before 30. Like, I have to get all my daughter's meals ready for the day, so my mom didn't have to deal with that, and my daughter wakes up at six, so I start that, so that it's all taken care of, and then I got to catch the bus to you, you know? And I do care about this, a great deal. It's just that, like, I have to put this child first, right? And Randall says, they're like, "I understand what you're saying, I appreciate that, but I don't want you to make your dreams small," right? Like, you should make your dreams big, not in spite of your daughter, but because of your daughter, right? And I think that Randall, a part of him in his mind, he makes mention of this, in one episode, is that this one, or earlier, where he says, like, this part of his own story is putting his dreams on hold to make sure that it takes care of everybody, right? And he's trying to apart on Malik, like, I don't want Malik to do the same thing, like, what I did, and I love that Malik's, like, oh, no, my dreams are plenty big, dude. I'm gonna go to an Ivy League school, and I'm gonna major in business, and then I'm gonna go to culinary school, and I'm gonna open, like, the only, like, three-star Michelin restaurant, like, all of Philly. I said, all right, but I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's cool, it's cool, so, okay, that's that. We go home, my wife, like, greets me at the door, and she starts doing, like, this little, shimmy, shimmy, cocoa pop sort of thing. I'm like, hey, man, I'm not ready to laugh about it just yet. I would be horrified. Like, I'm gonna be honest with you. Like, if this happened to me, where it was not intentional, and they saw me acting a damn fool, oh, that's embarrassing. - Yeah, yeah. - You just need to know the worst of it, yeah. - No, no, it doesn't. - No. - So he, they all make peace with it, et cetera, but so then, then, Jay Wong calls him, and he's like, you normally get about 5,000 views on these things. - Yeah. - This one's going kind of viral. He's like, wow, it's like, it's around 100,000. And it's not just, like, in the city, but it's gonna go, like, on country, nationwide, right? - You're a meme. - He's a meme. - He sees and looks at his memes and everything, at one point in time. I have a couple of those that like, like, memed out, and it's kind of like, oh, wow. Flattery, that's sweet. - That's cool. - Right, like myself. Every once in a while, my son gets teased with memes of me. - Oh. - And I was like, oh, boy, the boy didn't ask for this. The boy turns out, we zoom, and we see, there's somebody who's actually watching the thing that's gone national, and it keeps rewinding back, not just the sort of undressing part, but listening to this clip about, you know, I did this for William Hill. Did this for William Hill. And we pan out, and we see, it's that Vietnamese granddaddy from last episode. - That had pictures of him in the world. And he's like, oh, snap. - I know that name. - It is, like, and I gotta tell you, this was a great trojan horse, 'cause I completely forgot. - Me too. - Like how the dots get connected and how he found it. - Yeah. - Like, I was like, that was, I never, I did not see it coming. I just thought it was about me and Malik and responsibility and dreams, et cetera. And then my mind finds a way to do, that was good. - Yeah, it was really good. - Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, okay. - Where are we? - Toby and Kate are the story lines left, and they're still in their, in their process of trying to be excited about this adoption process. - Yes, we're having too excited. - Yeah, and they're covering their expectations. - Don't mess it up. - Until the ink is dry. - No fall steps. - Right. - And Kate heads off to an ultrasound. - Yep. - With Ellie. - 'Cause only one person can go. - Ellie? - Ellie? - Yep. - With Ellie. - During the COVID times. - During the COVID times, one person can go. - We decided that you said that you were gonna name the baby. Where did Chloe come from? - Chloe. - Chloe. - Chloe. - Chloe. - Chloe. - Chloe. - I like Chloe. - I like the name. - Yeah. - Chloe. - Yeah. - Baby Chloe Damon. - Chloe Damon. - Chloe Damon. - And she goes with her to the ultrasound and they talk about how tasty ultrasound gel looks. - That's right. I don't, I don't echo that. I get, I get ultrasounds on my foot all the time. I was like, this stuff looks gross. - Anyway. - Yeah. I mean, I can understand it. It's a texture thing, right? The gel is interesting to tell anybody, you know? - Maybe. - Maybe. - Teach their own. - Now teach their own. Fine. Not for me. - You guys don't like that. - Boy. - Sound. - Can't say. - Boy. - Now. Is that good for the listeners? - It may end to the like. - Yeah. - Yeah. - When I get a good squirt. - Boy. - Yeah. - And, and then they're, they're doing it and, and Kate. And Kate uses the name Chloe. - Yeah. - During the ultrasound. - And inadvertently it sort of just follows out of her mind. - And you can see Ellie's face drop. - Yeah. - And Kate thinks, oh, I've done something. I've been a mistake. - Well, 'cause they're gonna go, you're on the Zoom. - Yeah. - You're looking at the baby. Everybody's excited. Like, would you like to grab a bite to eat after this? - Yeah. - I'd love to grab a bite to eat. - Yeah. - Like, look at baby Chloe. - And she goes. - Ellie's face falls. - Wap mopla. - Also, shout out to Ellie. And like, this is one of the things that I wondered. I was like, will we be able to communicate what we need to with masks on our face? - Oh, it is. - Just with her eyes. - And it was clear. - Yeah. - Like, everything was clear. And I remember having that wonder. It was like, oh, will people be able to ascertain what's happening if we have a mask on? - Played. - Yeah. - And so they have a conversation out in the parking lot. - Yes. - About that. - I think it's okay just trying to ascertain what the issue might be. - I think I dropped the ball when I said Chloe, did I do something wrong? - Yeah. - Right? Ellie, why aren't you saying like, listen. You have the right to name the baby whatever you want to. But like, my husband and I have been together. Like, we've known each other since the 10th grade. And I wondered like, he didn't ask me out immediately. And I remember I was trying to make a move. We went to the beach. I took off my shirt. I had on my cute little bikini top. And my dude was just staring at my chest. And I was like, hey, I know I got some, whatever. And he's like, "You don't have
I have like a big hairy mole on your, is that a birthmark in the shape of South America? - In the shape of South America? And she's like, what are you talking about? So evidently, like his lab partner in chemistry class or whatever had been giving him false information about Miss Ellie and that young lady's name. - What's Chloe? - What's Chloe. - Which is a big part of the baby naming process, right? One partner throws out a name and you're like, "Oh, I have a bad association with that name." - No, yeah, Chloe kicked me in the crotch and doing your high school, can't do that. - Not Chloe, off the list. - Can't be Chloe, whatever the thing is. - You know it's something, I don't exactly remember how this whole thing plays out. Like the storyline. - Well, she says, you know. - You mean in future episodes? - In future episodes. - Yeah. - And I kind of don't want to- - I don't either, I don't want to know. I don't remember. - Do you remember? - Yeah, you remember because it's your story. (laughing) - Well, I remember plenty, I don't remember plenty about what my story was. - Because the thing is, we know that they, who are you? We know that they, oh wait, is the daughter in the future, is her name Chloe? Did they mention her name? - Yeah, I guess so. - No, no, it's not. - My name's not Chloe. - It's not Chloe. - It's Haley. - Haley. - So we don't know now if we decide to change the name or if this thing falls apart. - But they leave, but they leave this- - On a good note, because she says basically, you know, like I hope you're not having second thoughts about this and Ellie's like, I am having second thoughts about everything in my life, but knowing that this baby is for you guys. - And she said, you should be able to name this baby whatever you want, but does it have to be Chloe? - But yeah. - Guys, big story point, for a moment, Ellie thought about whether she should have an abortion. - Yes. - Yes, yes. (laughing) - She mentions that at one point, she was like, should I even continue this pregnancy? - Yeah, and she says, I hope you don't think less of me than Kate's like I would never judge you. - Yeah, and that's where she goes the second, you know, I've had second thoughts about everything in my life, but this baby and knowing that this baby is yours. - Right, and so later that night when Kate is talking to Toby, she says, you know, there's something that I need to talk to you about that I haven't shared with my parents and my brothers. - Yeah, nobody. - And in the flashback, we, she talks about her, I'm sorry, Sterling, her relationship with Mark. - I understand. - And how awful it was. And we flash back to that time where you were going - To New York. - To New York. - To visit Kevin during his showcase. - And she decided to stay home. - She stayed home, yeah. - Because. - She stayed home because I think she had a sneaking suspicion. She hadn't had her period that potentially she might be pregnant and she was correct. - She had the protest, she goes to the bathroom, last thing you see is a big old positive sign on that thing. And then it cuts back to the two of you talking to each other and we recognize that, oh my goodness, Kate must have had an abortion at some point. Either lost or we don't know the, all the particulars, but there's a baby that was, she was with child and that ultimately did not-- - That nobody has ever-- - That's mine, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. And that's a big one. And I'll tell you this, I was in the writer's room when they were talking about this and whether or not this was a storyline that they wanted to broach and like, you know, do you think America will be, you know, okay, dealing with Kate having an abortion or whatnot. And then I remember, I think it was Elizabeth saying, I was like, I don't care if they're okay with it or not. This is part of life and it's a part of life that I think our show is uniquely equipped to address. And the idea that we would not talk about it says to make people comfortable, she's like, no. And I was like, all right, burger, that's right. - Yeah, that's burger, that's how we do. - That's what this show does. - Yeah, man, that's good. That's, that's the show. - That's the episode, yeah. So-- - That's probably before. - A bit of a cliffhanger. - Yeah. And we're gonna get to do a little special segment here at the end and talk to one of our writers. - Oh, we are, we're talking to Elon? - Yeah, we're gonna talk to Elon. - Oh, no, let's give him some hands then. We'll be back with more. That was us right after this. - More that was us after these words from our sponsors. (upbeat music) - This time of year, I always feel that shift where the pace slows down a little. The holidays are behind us, the years underway, and you start paying attention to the small things that make you and your home feel good. - It's less about big gestures and more about everyday comfort. How you wind out at night, how you start your mornings and what helps you actually feel rested. - That's why this episode is sponsored by Cozy Earth. Their whole mission is about elevating everyday moments through better materials and thoughtful design. And it really shows in the pieces you use the most. - You guys, I've said this before, but I was a Cozy Earth fan before they became a sponsor of our podcast. - Yes, of course. - I found their sheets a couple of years ago and was just immediately obsessed and addicted. - Yeah, agreed. - Yeah. - The first set of sheets I've ever been like, "I gotta get to bed." - Yeah. - Really? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Were we? - They're pajamas? Oh, that's next level. That was an introduction to me via the podcast. - Can I talk about bamboo, are sheets made out of? - Yes. - Yes. - Yes, strolling, and they're very soft. - I need to get in there. - I wear their sheets as pajamas if you catch my grip. - If you catch my grip. - Toga. - Toga. - Toga. - Toga. For me, it's the way Cozy Earth pieces instantly make you feel calmer. Slipping into their pajamas, I do have the pajamas or climbing in the bed with fresh sheets. I need the sheets. Actually helps me slow down at the end of the day. - The quality is what really stands out for me. Everything feels soft and intentional, and it really holds up over time. It's comfort that feels considered not just Cozy for one season. Yeah, I've been a fan for a long time. Their sheets have lasted for many, many season. And now their pajamas are new introduction to me. - And the channel Cuddle Blanket. You guys is one of those things you grab. - I grab it without thinking. It's heavy. - It's heavy. - Yeah, yeah. - Oh. The fuzzy, yes. - I do have that blanket. - Oh my gosh. - How much time? - Early mornings, late nights. It just makes those quiet moments feel better. I'm up early. Guys, my alarm is set for 5am, right? - You 5am? - Yes, and I get up there. - Wait, like, pre-children? Like, you get up before the kids? - Yes. - Just to have a little you time. - Just to have a little me time. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And I have my coffee. I do a little writing. I do a little whatever I need to do. I make some lunches. And then out, out Toddles a little toddler who wants a little cuddle. - Sure. - Under that cozy channel cuddle blanket. (laughing) - Oh my goodness, so fuzzy, so cute. I love it. - That is what I appreciate about cozy Earth. It turns simple moments at home into something that actually feels restorative. They also make it easy to try with a hundred night sleep trial and a 10 year warranty. So you can really live with it and see how it fits into your routine. - Share a little extra love this February and wrap yourself or someone you care about and comfort that truly feel special. Head to cozyearth.com and use our code TWU for up to 20% off. And if you get a post purchase survey, be sure to mention you heard about cozy Earth right here. - Celebrate everyday love with comfort that makes the little moments count. (gentle music) - We are so excited because today we have the writer of episode 504 is here with us. - Yes, Elan Mestai is joining us on Zoom to break down the episode and share some behind-the-scenes stories with us. - Let's jump right in and bring on Elan's. - Hi, Elan. - Hi, Elan. - I'm very well, so nice to see, I mean, it's nice to see two out of the three of you. - Oh no. - Oh no. - Who could not see? - Oh no, I was, that was joking. I was like, I see, no, no, no, no, no, no, I get it. And I know who it is. - Yeah. - I thought you might, it's me, it's me, it's me. - It's Maddie, delightful to see all of you. - I can just sit this one out. - Where did we find you in this beautiful apartment? - Oh, this is my house in Toronto where I live. - You are on, bro. What have you been to? It's been a few years since last, we've seen you, how is life, how are you doing? Like what's, what's popping? - Did you move back to Toronto? Did you always? - Yeah. - Okay. - After the show ended, yeah, we relocated back to Toronto. I mean, I moved to LA with my family to do this show. - Oh, what? - And then, in words, we moved back. - Yeah, my wife works, and my wife is an executive at the, at the CBC, which is like the Canadian BBC. So, yeah, so we came back here. And most of the work I do these days is remote. So, I was kind of able to do it from wherever. And then I obviously come down whenever I need to. - I love it. - Nice. - You're one of the few people I've met from, are you from Toronto? Toronto, Toronto? - I'm actually, I'm from Vancouver. - From Vancouver? - From Vancouver, Toronto. - 'Cause I'd like to say, 'cause a lot of people, if I say Toronto, in Toronto, they say it's Toronto. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, you've got to drop the T. - Yeah, yeah, the second T. - Drop the heart T. - There you go. - Yes, yes. It's not Toronto. - It's Toronto. - Yeah, people say Toronto. - Toronto. - Toronto. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. - This is how to get that. - There you go. Now you guys can fit in. (laughing) - We just got finished talking about 504, lovely episode of television, setting up a lot of things regarding the future of the show, starting to get into Laurel's story a little bit.
bit, calves sort of evolution in terms of who the kind of man that he wants to be as he's moving into fatherhood, etc. Great episode. Oh, also the introduction of a little backstory for Kate, right? And things that transpired between her and Mark that we're just finding out, everybody's just finding out in this episode. Talk to us a little bit about you and the writers breaking the episode and putting it down, pen to paper. And maybe a little bit of how you first were brought on to the show. For sure. And yeah, and then I guess maybe more specifically this episode. Sure. Well, you know, like all these kind of things, there's a bit of a longer story, but the short version of it is Jess Rosenfall, who is Dan's producing partner. Him and I had a general meeting years before this is us. I had read a script I wrote or I maybe had seen a movie that I did. What if? Is this film that I did? Yeah. And just met and like had a lovely come, I mean, he's just like a great dude. Yeah. And, you know, I for people who aren't in the business, like a general meeting is just when you're meeting somebody and it's like what it sounds like, you're not trying to sell them anything. They're not hiring. You just get a chance to meet. And it's actually kind of like a nice thing where it's not transactional. You're just trying to see if you guys hit it off. You show it to each other. And so, you know, we just kind of kept in touch. You know, I had a novel published as book I wrote called All Are Wrong Todays and he sent me a lovely note about it when he read it and when Dan Vogelman's movie life itself premiered at the Toronto Film Festival. I got invited. You know, so we just kind of kept in touch over the years. But I didn't really have any like designs on joining the writing team for this is us because, I mean, you know, so like 2019, season three, I mean, it's like the biggest show on on TV. And, you know, any, you know, any TV writer in America would like, you know, be thrilled to join this team, but I am neither a TV writer nor an American. So I just, you know, it wasn't something I was like planning on. But one day, you know, February of 2019, you know, I'm in Toronto. It's like Ice Planet Hoth, like it's horrible, right? It's like, you know, it's like so cold and windy. And my wife and I went to go see a play because a friend of ours was in it and an intermission. I checked my phone and there's like a bunch of missed calls for my agent, which is like a little weird. I wasn't working anything that was urgent, but they got a call from Jess Rosenfall saying, you know, that he, they're losing a writer who'd been with the show from the beginning. And he kind of had a feeling about me and Dan and Isaac and Elizabeth. And he knows it was like a long shot, but would I ever consider coming to LA and joining the team? And the answer was, was yes, I would. And so, you know, it's currently 72 degrees here. Yeah, no, there was like any land shaped hole in the wall of the theater. No, I mean, but I came down with everybody and just love the way that they, you know, I, I was a fan of the show. Like my wife and I watched her every week. You know, I, so I knew I was up on everything that was going on. Oh, cool. And in fact, I literally remember the R&B episode. The season three was the day, the night before my meeting with Isaac and Elizabeth, and then I met with Dan as well. And so I was like, you know, I walked in. I was like, I was like, I was really glad that I knew that they didn't get divorced before I walked into my meeting. And so, yeah, and so, you know, we joined the show. I, sorry, joined the show and moved, you know, moved to LA. I came first and then my wife and kids joined me and we lived there while we worked on the show. And yeah, I mean, it was interesting because of course, you know, like a wife and kids moving to a new city because the husband just took this kind of really exciting new job. Of course, was incredibly relevant at the top of season four because that's exactly what happened to Randall Beth in the group. And that was sort of more. And so, you know, right away in the room, I was advocating like, let's make this messy because it's not easy to shape up your life that way. And then of course, you know, Chris that's might be familiar to you, somebody getting this really incredible job that takes them to another city and their wife has to decide if she's going to leave the job she loves and move their kids and move away from her parents and her support network and come to this new city. That's right. And all the challenges of that and how that can put pressure on a marriage became very much part of Katobe's story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now it was more the negative side of it. Yeah. And you must have you must have made that move also at the top of a worldwide pandemic. Or before, right before. It was a year before. And so, yeah, in season five, which was my second season on the show, and we, you know, we, it was the pandemic year. And this episode, talking about writing it was, so we shot this episode. It was the last of our first block. So, we were like the first show back in COVID. And we were still figuring out how do you safely make a television show under the circumstances. And I'm sure you guys have, you know, like flashbacks are like looking out at everybody's and hazmat suits as you're trying to let act. And this was the last. So 504 was the last episode of the very first block. And, you know, the episodes were taking longer to shoot. They were more complicated. They're more expensive trying to do it safely. So, this one is at the very end. And I don't know if you guys remember this, but we shot this episode. I looked it up because I had, you know, the notes from when we made it. We shot it from like October 29th to November 6th, which also spanned the US presidential election, which happened in the middle of this episode. Wow. And I don't think you guys remember, we didn't know who won. Yes. It's for like a week. Right. Right. And that was happening while we were shooting. And we wrapped this episode on November 6th. And normally we have five to six weeks to cut the episodes. We were so pushed on schedule. This episode aired on November 17th 11 days after we wrapped. Wait. What? Yeah. It was crazy. And I mean, Carolyn, I don't remember that. Yeah. It was wild on the post team, particularly the woman who at a Lysan Ho, who ended up this. Like, I mean, it's insane. Like, I think it's like, I'm very proud of the episode. And I think we all did a wonderful job. Like, it was made under like probably the most intense time pressure of any episode in the history of the show to get it on on television. I did not know that you will also be you will also be the first writer that we speak to who experienced the the backyard tent writers room. Yeah. Tell us about that. Yeah. Well, so I mean, actually, I didn't experience the tent sort of. I was so I had to come back from I had gone to Canada during the hiatus and had to come back. And so I actually hadn't come back yet. And so I was exactly like this. I and because you know, with the vaccines and everything, it took me to get back. And so they started the tent and they piped me in on video. And so I was like this and it was way bigger than the screen you're looking at now. I was like the wizard of Oz. Like, they had these incredible incredible. And all I could see was everybody over the course of the first couple days because it was boiling hot. And then they were piping in AC. And so the AC was like being in a wind tunnel. And everybody was either alternately melting or freezing. And then there was an attack of mosquitoes. And so I was watching everybody like on video like kind of doing this all the time and like slapping themselves. Yeah. While we're also trying to break possibly like the most complex season premiere in the history of the show. It was it was a lot. But you know, you had the best seat in the house though. Oh yeah. And I mean, I was conscious. I would like you know, just like open a open a cool drink and just drink it and watch everybody. Literally like you'd watch over the course. People were sweating. Did you ever make it to the backyard tent? Or by the time you got there, the tent was sort of passed? By the time I returned, it was decided that the tent had been a noble experiment. But that ultimately we were not going to continue. Yeah. You kept suspiciously delaying your return. I can't make it. The borders are closed. I can't say I was like in a giant rush to be in the tent. I mean, I think, you know, it was like it was an experience. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So this episode deals with a lot of complex themes. I'm speaking most specifically to Kate and Mark and the introduction of, of, you know, this potential abortion or miscarriage or something. We don't know exactly what happened. We do know there is a positive pregnancy test. We know that the baby is not in Kate's life. Maybe she gave the baby up for, you know, like we, we don't know the full, we don't have the full understanding of what the situation is. Yeah. And Sterling said that he was actually in the room when, when this was sort of talked about. And Elizabeth Berger sort of advocating for like our show, our show has never shied away from having these sorts of difficult conversations. Like, why would we start now? This is a, just matter of fact, like this is a part of so many women's lives and stories. And, you know, I think our show is best suited to tell this story in a thoughtful respectful way as I think we handle every subject matter. So I'm curious if you want to speak to like how you felt, you know, because this is, it is, it is very tricky territory to wait into these waters. Yeah. And we had, you know, as Sterling noted, we had robust debates about exactly how to handle it. But my feeling was like once, I was all for it, first of all, because I, I agreed with Elizabeth, like this, you know, what made me.
this show special. I mean, and particularly this season where we're going full on into COVID and George Floyd's murder and Black Lives Matter and so many other complex issues and, you know, Randall as a character is holding his sibling's feet to the fire in a way he never has before about about their history and we're dealing with Alzheimer's and we're dealing with a lot of stuff. Like why, you know, we're in a unique position. People, these characters are beloved and we have never shied away from anything. Let's not shy away from this. This is a part of a lot of people's lives, whether, and what I liked about it was I thought it was also very powerful for Kate, you know, to have held onto this her whole life and finally want to talk about it. As a writer, you know, what was nice about it was, you know, I had this kind of lovely story about her going, you know, being invited to the ultrasound and, you know, Ellie played by Andy Funk has this, you know, monologue about the name and how sure she is and there's this great little moment that, you know, Toby has talking about the melted wax baby and it feels like you're kind of like classic feel good. Kate and Toby, not super heavy story lies, right? And then, but part of that is, you know, one of the things we talked about on the writers room all the time was weaponizing expectation, right? So there's what the audience thinks is happening and how sometimes you give them what they my wife and I talk about that. And sometimes you're coming at you sometimes you're weaponizing that expectation. That was one of these episodes and as a writer, you know, you have that like you you have like a giant bomb that we were about to drop in their relationships and in the audience is understanding of Kate's history. This is like it comes as a profound part of her story. Oh yeah. And so it's just trying to get it right. And, you know, obviously based on me trying to listen to the women in the room and make sure that I was being- For the people just listening, you're a man. Yeah. Uh yes. Uh yes. Then maybe you're not watching this podcast on YouTube. And if not, why not? Exactly. That's what we say all the time. But, you know, so it's just making sure that, you know, and that and part of the decision also was we knew this was the last episode, right? Before we were going to have a little break over the holidays, America was going to have to wait for two months to find out what happened. And so we also debated, does she say the word abortion in this episode? Or do we wait till the next episode? And that we went back and forth and I believe we even shot, we shot different versions of it and we decided, let's just take it right up to the line and then we'll wait, because we wanted to have the full conversation in one episode. We had not spent a month break after this episode. Yeah, we didn't come back to January. We didn't come back to January to find out about like this whole storyline with Randall and whether or not he was going to find out about his birth mother. What happened to his birth mother? Was she alive? Was she dead? And, you know, all this stuff with with Kate and Toby and the history with Mark. No, we made America wait for two months. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Wow. And I'm so glad that you remember this because we talk about this a lot that like four and five are for some reason, just like super grainy to us. Like one, two, and three, we pretty much remember six is, it was a little more recent, but like four seasons four and five, just they're surprised. They're they're a revelation to rewatch. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, of course, because, you know, I was like, I started at four and five. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. So, but it's really funny because I had, you know, I'm joining. So I was, I was on four or five six. So I was there for the second half. I'm like the second half club. Yeah. And, but for me, you know, you're stepping in and like nobody takes you aside and says, this is how we make the show. Like there's like a little bit of that, but you really hit the ground running. And, and so, you know, I was often feeling like I'm, you know, in the writer's room, I'm on set with this incredible crew with this incredible cast. And everybody is like really in the groove. Yeah. And I just have to like pay very close attention. Really like, you know, see how this is being done. And get up to speed as fast as possible, because, you know, nobody is sitting at home is like, well, you know, I mean, it was his first episode or whatever episode, right? Like there's an expectation of continuing. I like, you know, I like, I didn't help make the show. The number one show on TV, but at least I didn't help ruin it. It's made go down. Yeah. That's it there. We've had a timeline wise. I know you are a novelist and a screenwriter. This wasn't your first TV writing job, wasn't it? It was. This was my first film. Yeah, I hadn't, yeah, no, I mean, I'd written movies before novels, short stories, but I hadn't been in a TV writer's room. That's why, I mean, when I got the call, would you consider this? Sure. I'd really genuinely thought it was a bit of a long shot, because I loved the show as a fan, but just like, like, you know, the Golden State Warriors aren't going to call me to come play for them, even though I'm a basketball fan. Like I just, you know, it seemed kind of unlikely, but, you know, but fortunately, I hit it off with Isaac and Elizabeth and with Dan and kind of, you know, was able to join. And, you know, like, I really did genuinely, like, I love the show. And, you know, you sit at home being like, well, you know, it was one of those shows where I didn't, as they said, like, I wasn't expecting to come right for it, but as soon as the door opened, I like showed up on the first day in the writers room with a notebook full of ideas. Like, I was ready to go. Yeah. And I was excited and there was questions that I had that I had wondered as a viewer that I wanted answers and the opportunity to actually be at the table, helping to figure out those answers was really exciting. But, you know, you have it like in this episode, you know, Kevin is rehearsing for this movie, sort of Mercurial director, you know, Jordan Martin Foster. And, you know, you know, there's this thing in that in the movie or in, you know, there's this thing, you know, they do the rehearsal. It doesn't go well. And they had this conversation afterwards about greatness and about, you know, this idea that, you know, and that kind of like plays out in the past that Jack wants his sons. No, he sees greatness in them. And, and, and I love that there was a little bit of ambivalence there. Is Jack correct? This isn't approach right? Is Rebecca's approach right? You know, yes, of course, like he wants to inspire his kids, but when does that pressure become like create a host of other problems? Yeah, that's true. And so I thought that there was an interesting kind of question. Like, we often are like, you know, we often kind of come down on the side of, yes, this was the right thing to do. And I like that there was a little bit of ambivalence in this episode about like, you know, is this actually working as a parent? And, you know, but, but part of, part of, you know, this episode was, I had to decide as the writer, like, is Jordan Martin Foster like good at his job? Like, is he, like, he's really hard on, on Kevin? And he's kind of like a, like, a dick. And for the record for anybody who who watches this episode, this is not how to get a great performance. Not at all. I mean, it was funny when we did this because I, you know, so many, so many people in the crew up to and including Ken Olin were like, who is this based on? Because I've worked with this guy. Like, and, you know, like, everybody had a story about somebody. Yeah, even Ken had a story. You were like, this is based on you, Ken. You know, it was really, I mean, it is, it is actually based on somebody that I worked with. I mean, in part, but, you know, one of the funny things is like, they're actually doing, you know, they're actually doing, like, a scene. And I had to like, make a decision about how good I think he has it as a job. And I noticed you guys have some pages in front of you. Yes. Yeah. What is this? Oh, about to do a poll. Why don't you turn it over? What is the glass? Oh, this is a rehearsal draft. So to give the audience a sense of how deep we go, because when we were shooting the rehearsal scene, they actually had to like read out a scene, we were going to see the script. You know, we like to move the cameras around. We didn't know how much of the script we were going to see. Ken Olin, who directed this episode, wanted to like, you know, have a freedom that they could turn pages. If the audience like, if we can see it on camera, if the audience is wily enough to freeze frame to go in close, we didn't want to break the illusion. So I literally wrote you wrote a scene. Wow. I'd write a four to five page scene for of the movie in case it appeared on screen. You have to write a title. And I love the title. The glass. It's so dumb. It's so delightful. I love it. So I don't know if you guys want to have a little experiment here, but you guys want to do a cold library. Thank you. Oscar's epic. Incredible. The glass. Are you reading? Are you reading stage direction? I'll reach stage. Okay. Okay. Okay. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm going to read stage directions. Okay. I'll read the stage directions. All right. Let's bring it to life. You guys good? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Interior police station interview room day. Jonas opens the door, thumbing through messages on his cell. Sage sits at the table working hard to look unimpressed. He takes the chair on the other side of the table, puts away his cell, and finally looks at her, sizing up his new client. You got yourself in isn't trouble. I didn't get myself into anything. Then why they call me? To be honest, I have no idea. To be honest. Yeah. See, the thing is when someone says to be honest or I'm, if I'm being honest or honestly, that's, that usually means they're about to lie to you. Sage is about to respond, but she stops and considers this. I guess I was lying, or at least not being completely honest. Zero difference. Well, you're the lawyer. You tell me. Jonas does.
He's an exactly smile, but his mouth wants to. The thing is, I sit across a lot of tables, just like this, from a lot of people, just like you. You're not like me. People like you at tables like this are almost always lying, but they're all kinds of lies, lies of self-delusion, lies of self-importance, lies of self-preservation, even lies of self-sacrifice. Those are tricky because it's a deliberate lie for a greater truth. So to be honest, I don't believe you. To be honest, I don't trust you. To be honest, I know you're lying. Until you're ready to tell me the truth, to be honest, we're done here. "Mandy, you're giving me everything that I could hope for, and I'm going?" So the scene goes on from there, obviously. I continued on like several pages. This is crazy what you have to do in order to make. Ah, I love it. Is the name Jordan Martin Foster an amalgamation of other filmmakers? I just got obsessed with the idea that he has three first names and three last names. Oh, they're all right. They are both first and last names. But I mean, one of the things that's really funny about this is I had to make a decision, and so I'll throw it out to you. Do you think he's a good writer/director based on these pages? I don't know what it is yet, you know what I mean? I will say, I don't think he's a good director simply by what you brought up, like the way he's trying to elicit, quote unquote, "great performance" from Kevin. We were talking about communication is everything from a director. Sure. He has an actor as a collaborator. You want to hear not that it's good or passable or whatnot. Just that you're doing what the director wants, or it's in line with what he's thinking, to just be silent and to give Kevin nothing is. The line that you drop, what is like, you know, I'm trying to do it, but you just keep interrupting me and my man says, "I wish I didn't have to cut." Like the hair is on the back of my neck, stood up and I was like, "Ruff, ruff, ruff, ruff." Yeah, your heckle stand up and boom, don't like this. I would hurt you. And this is the thing. I mean, you know, he makes the cardinal mistake which he destroys, trust, immediate. Yeah. And I mean, it's interesting, you know, it's an interesting thing because we talked a lot about this. And so, you know, when I was writing these pages, it's like, you do have to drill down. I just like, how good do I think he is? Do I think he's, you know, and you're trying to like set that tone. And it is an interesting thing on a show like this because as they're in the writer's room, like, we are pouring so much of our personal lives, I mean, we often joke that we saved tens of thousands of dollars in therapy just by looking on this show. Yeah. But, you know, you're also like, you're putting, you know, like, elements of your life. Like, in this episode, there's, you know, I love the runner of Jack and Rebecca sleep training in the past. Yeah. That was so much fun to write. I, as a side note, at one point, we talked for probably like 10 minutes. We talked about like, should this just be the episode? Should we do a bottle episode, which is just like the two of them trapped in this room? Yeah. Like, you know, who's afraid of Virginia Woolf while the baby screams in the other room? And we ultimately decided that in the middle of COVID in America could not handle an hour of a screening baby on television, but that was like literally based on, you know, my experience with my wife's sleep change, sleep training our first daughter. And, you know, just like how the, that sound, what it does to you, to hear that sound of your child, like, in distress, in the next room, and wanting to help them, but not being sure if comforting them is ultimately the right move, yeah. And it is hard. And, and, and Mandy, I love you. I thought you brought like these little colors to Rebecca that we didn't, you often didn't get to play. And that's the, you know, in that moment, I was just like, it was so delightful. But, you know, as, as the writers, you're like taking something from your own life and then you hand it over to the rest of the room, right? And everybody contributes. And you hand it over to the cast, you hand it over to the crew, and then eventually you hand it over to the audience, and it's this fascinating experience of vulnerability. And yet at the same time, you are hiding behind all these layers of all these other professionals doing their very best to make it, you know, to, to make it as good as possible. Yeah. And let's say what I'll say about these pages before, because we, I don't want to get away from it. I think they, they fit very well with the director that we saw and that they are ambiguous. Mm-hmm. I would, that's what I would call them. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, they are purposefully indirect, you know? And I think that him as a director was purposefully indirect. Like, he seems like the kind of person that delights in keeping people on edge, at least my brother Kevin Pearson. Yeah. Yeah. And it's also, the, the lesson, if, if Kevin is going to learn a lesson from this man, it means something different if he's the world's greatest director versus if he's a mediocre director. So it's almost better if we're not quite sure, sure, which it is, because the lesson's more important. Right. Right. And like the story with Kate and Toby, we, we set all this up, but actually the payoff to this is the conversation he has in the car with Kate about the comment Randall made about his acting at the end of season four, and then you're like, oh, actually, there was a moment where we were going to make this director. We were going to go to a different director, and he was going to be like a young talented black director, like a Ryan Googler. And it was going to be, and we talked about like, is that too much for Kevin, right? And we ultimately decided it was. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, these are the conversations you have in the room where you try and go, but I love that we were able to, you know, that you're watching it. And yes, it is about all the things it seems that it's about, but then when you have that conversation with Kate, if there's actually a deeper layer that maybe the audience didn't put together. And then you're like, okay, just reference, this isn't because we actually missed that in recapping the episode. Kevin says something about, he's like, I just got to make sure I'm not so tired. Right? And Kate clocks and he's like, isn't that the same word that Randall used when he was describing your acting? He's like, I'm not even talking about that right now. But clearly here. But each of them, like, and Kevin and 503 also makes mentions, like, I got all this stuff that I'm working through this stuff with my brother that I haven't even addressed yet. Like, two episodes in a row, like, even just four episodes in a row, we have a bit of a cold war that has been transpiring between these brothers where they're, decide that they are in each other's lives in the part of it, but like, even in the text messages that they think they're going to be bigger and they just winds up being, like, hurt the news, congrats. And once they say something bigger and it just turns out to be thanks, like, Randall hasn't talked about it, but we've heard Kevin make mention of it a couple of times now that like, I got stuff with my brother that I'm still don't know exactly how to work through. Yeah. And we, in the room, we were constantly like, you know, we love these characters. And so, you know, you, but you know, part of writing is when you love a character, you have to torture them so that, you know, like, that's how you, how they, how the audience finds out who they really are is when you, like, you know, when you torture them. But we were constantly like, we just want these two guys to come to make up. But, you know, it was so fascinating to see what came out of them keeping them apart. Yeah, man. It was fun. And then, of course, this was also the episode where we did the viral video. Yeah. And, you know, that was a tough one because those videos are hard, it's hard to get a viral moment right. Yeah. And, and I don't know if you were, I'm sorry, I didn't, I didn't hear the recap. I don't know if you remember this Randall, but we are sorry, Randall, so I don't know if you remember this Sterling, but we, we shot it and then we shot it again. We messed it up. Oh, yeah. Oh, here we are. And we had to shoot it again. I do. And it was like, we were under like this intense time pressure, as I mentioned, and it was so like, like, I remember just being like so frustrated. You mentioned it a couple episodes ago, because a man prepares a certain way to go shirtless on television. And then they spring this on you to see you're shooting. And they're all throwing it on me that I had to re-shoot it. Yeah. Oh, boy. Yeah. And it's like, you know, as the, I mean, it's itch because, you know, you, you, you, obviously, you guys know, like what a bunch of pros are crew are. Yeah. Like everybody was like so mortified. Yeah. That we got this. Do you remember what it happened? Why? Why did you have to re-shoot it? I was with the phone. I know exactly what fat in the first one, right? Yeah. Everybody said he can do better. No. Yeah. We, uh, know what happened was we were, we wanted to get, we, the way we shot it was with an actual webcam streaming it. Yeah. And we had so, like, I can't even tell you how many conversations we had about whether the webcam footage would be broadcast quality. Okay. And we were assured it would be. And it was not. It was. It was, it was like, we just like, it was not usable. So we ended up reshooting it with a proper camera and then doing a treatment on it. And, but you know, the, and so, but it was, so it was one of those things where also because of the, I mean, it was really a victim of how tight we were, remember, 11 days. Yeah. Like we were very tight. And so it was just one of those things and the crew was exhausted and, and, you know, you were, and incredibly, you were a real pro sterling for coming back and doing it again because I appreciate it. It's a lot of questions. I was like, what's happening? Yeah. Before you, yeah. This is, I guess that's when we almost lost Yasu, huh? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we almost had to let him go. Maybe. But I, I will tell you, you know, we talked a lot about it because getting a viral video
right is really hard. You see them on TV all the time and that you're like, "That would never go viral." And, you know, it was interesting because it's real. It's a comedy set piece. We don't really always do comedy. We don't really do that on this show that often. So it had to be designed in a certain way. But I will just as a personal story, you know, that was a tough time in the world. Like, I know my wife was getting really like, like how long COVID was stretching out and the effects it was having on our kids. She was like in a really like a downhead space. And it was really rough. And I remember we sat down and watched this episode when it aired. And when Randall started stripping on camera, she started laughing so hard. I hadn't heard her laugh like that in like, I felt like months. And she was just like, like crying with laughter. And I was like, this is why I wrote that scene. It was to watch my wife who had been having a bit of a rough patch. Like, have that. And I heard from so many people. I got so many messages just like, I needed that laughter so hard. And it was like, it was a big, I was actually like a big stretch for us, because we didn't usually go that hard on the comedy. And I heard from so many people what a like relief that moment was. And of course, like all the other big moments in this, in this episode, there's the payoff at the end where it turns out to be the thing that hooks into his discovery of Laurel. But, um, but just knowing that people had that kind of sense of relief and that sense of, you know, just like everybody, even if we were all potted off in our homes, that everybody was united for just a minute and laughter made it feel very worthwhile. I love that. Here, here. You're such a delight to talk to. I feel like if you're ever out in Los Angeles and we can chat with you for like a whole episode, it would, there's just so much to talk about. You're so insightful. And do you even want to come back? Yeah. I don't blame you. Stay put. No, no, I have to come down for work often. And I'll ask you again in February. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, when it's frigid and you want to break in your analysis, well, let us know next time you're in LA. Yeah, you can pop in. We can have a full and likewise, if any of you are shooting up in Toronto and you want to take you off for dinner, I'll be able to film first of all. I look you up, man. That would be fun. I'd be delighted. Is there anything that you're working on at present that you want to tout and let people know about? Yeah, I mean, like, sadly, I have to be a little bit coy, but I have a, I'm writing a movie for, I'm writing a big kind of sci-fi movie for one of the studios based on a short story of mine. Yeah, we like to call them phones. They're filmed. A big film. Thank you. Thank you. It's it's going to be a Jordan Martin Foster joint. And then I'm actually, you know, I mean, not to make it to, you know, like two personally autobiographical, I'm I'm actually gearing up to direct my first feature. And so, yeah, so it's based on one of my scripts and we are just kind of, you know, putting it all together. It's amazing. This summer. You'll let us know when casting starts. This was actually sorry, I just I just didn't they tell you this was the casting me. Oh, wow, that was audition. Two of us got the job. Yeah, two out of three of you got the job. Yeah, the movie is called The Glass Eye. That would be, that would be amazing. That would be the coolest story ever. That would be like, you know, that we actually like, let's actually make the movie, you know, sadly for the fans, they don't get season seven, but they do get it. They get the glass side, what are you waiting for? They get the glass side to get Hill, backside of an egg. Yeah, the play, the play, the play, the backside. Oh, yeah. And the M Night Shyamalan movie stares to nowhere. Yeah, I feel like the titles in it always give me such joy. And the crews and the crew's alternate title for the war movie War Lama. That's right. And they have War Lama shirts, didn't they? Oh my goodness. Anyway, I'm down. Let's make them all. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Oh my god. My pleasure. I've really, I've been enjoying the podcast so much. I've been like, for me, because I missed the first three seasons, actually hearing you guys talk about the first three seasons was so much fun. Oh, thanks so much. Thanks. Because it's like, you're telling all these stories about the experience. I wasn't, I wasn't there. I was watching the show. Sure. Sure. And then, obviously, once you've caught up to season four, you know, this, obviously, the stuff I was involved in it. And I, I, Mandy, I texted you this. Like, it's so, it gives me so much joy. Because you guys have the same debates in that room that we had in the right. That's so interesting. Like, I'm constantly hearing you guys debating, like, you know, like, like, I remember when you guys talked about 408, which was my first episode on the show. You guys are talking about like avocado gate. Yeah. And like, did, like, you're like, how, you know, and all, I mean, this whole show is about a bunch of characters who carry about each other very deeply, trying to do the right thing. Yeah. In situations where the right thing isn't always clear what it is. And so, and so listening to you guys debate, the same, you're having the same kinds of, like, really thoughtful, you know, emotionally literate debates that we were trying to have in the room when we were figuring out what to happen is a lot of fun. And so, anyways, as a, as both a participant and a fan of the show, thank you for it. It's so much fun. That means a lot. Thank you. Thank you for your time, too. We appreciate it. Great to see you. Good to see you guys too. That was great. Dude, that was awesome. One of the best guests we've ever had. He was wonderful. Like, it's so interesting to come in like halfway through and like sort of not be a part of the first half, but sort of help to finish it off. But so insightful. I really meant that I was like, if you're here, I just feel like he'd be a wonderful addition. He had so much to say he had such great memories of things that I'm like, wow, I, but I feel like we've had other writers here. And, but he just, not as good. Yeah, I feel like we've had other writers. Well, we only have Isaac and Elizabeth in person, but like, to bring, we need to bring more writers in because I just, I feel like they are the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hands down. They said beautiful light on things. We were telling people to subscribe, comment, send us a message, it's speakpipe. com/thatwasus or that was us at gmail. That was us
[email protected]. Yeah, talk to us. We'll talk to you. That's it. That was us, baby. Here we go. That was us. It's filmed at Rabbit Green Studios and produced by Rabbit Green Productions, Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.
PodcastTranscript AI