Kate Middleton: When Conspiracies Go Too Far

Hello and welcome to another episode of Base News Network. My name is Sophie, aka Joan of Arc, and today we will be talking about a special thingy, first let's say hi to Kayo. Hello, greetings. Greetings. Yeah, greetings. Does my British accent? Yeah, we're getting British today. Sadly, trigger warning. Yeah, trigger warning to all the Brit haters. We're getting British today because we're talking about Kate Middleton. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The sad thing about this segment is that it's British. That's the size part. All right. So Sophie. So who's Kate Middleton? Well, I'm surprised that I will have to say this. Well, maybe people don't care about the monarchy. I feel like most people who speak English know about her. She is the princess, the Duchess of Wales. She is married to Prince William, who is heir to the throne after his father, Charles, who is King. He's the son of Queen Elizabeth, and he was married to Princess Diana. So she is the princess of Wales? Yes. She is, I'm visualizing a princess of the animal's whales. That would be me. That would be you. That would be. So, okay, so before we get into the serious topic, do you know anything about whales? You mean the place? Yes. It's a region of the, you know, Kingdom. Like have you heard of Welsh people? Yeah. That's Wales. Okay. So, so is there, what's going on in Wales? Does Wales, like, does Wales have their own, like, what, like, what, what is going on in Wales? Honestly, I don't really know, but is there, is, can anyone tell me if Wales is worth visiting? All I know about Wales is that my art teacher, like, I went to, I took, like, weekly art lessons as a kid in Mike, my town, and for some reason, this Welsh woman lived in my town, and she gave the lesson. So, my only, like, real association is her. And she's late. Okay. So, okay, I'm on the Wikipedia. So, Wales has a population of about three million, which is really small. It's like, that's like small, like, that's like small in a city. It's a really tiny, like, an average city. Yeah. So, why the hell do this, does a tiny little place have its own princess? Well, this is because that, it's a title. It's not, like, she's not literally, like, in charge of Wales, like, like, it's, it's just, it's a title that she inherited. Like, Diana was also princess of Wales. Okay. So, I am at, just, so, I'm happy I'm asking these questions because I feel like these are the questions people are afraid to ask because they're stupid. But, does she, or did she ever actually live in Wales? I don't think so. I think that, like, this house, particular house, you know, like, you know, there's different, like, royal houses in a family, or in a kind, like, a kingdom. Yes. I thought you were going to say, no, just, I knew that part. So, like, right now, we're in the house of Windsor. And another example of a house that has ruled, it's kind of like a dynasty. So, they are, like, connected by blood. But it's not always, like, a direct succession. And sometimes it's a lot more distant than they'd want it to. That's when you see, like, a house end, like, the Habsburgs, they were not in England. But that's an example of a royal house in the Holy Roman Empire. The Habsburgs house died, died out. So, like, they're basically dynasties that are in control of the kingdom. And all the houses are, like, kind of connected, and they intermarry and interbreed, but they're still, kind of, like, yeah. But anyway, the house, the royal house of Windsor is, like, the current house in charge of the British throne. But another example of a British house that we might be familiar with is the tutors. So, Mary Tudor, Queen Elizabeth, the first King Henry, the eighth Ann Bolin, you know, the six wives, like, this was all, like, the tutors. All right. Let's get back to that. Because I feel like we could go down a big rabbit hole. Before we get into eighth century, let's talk about the princess so well. The eighth century. 18th century, whatever. That was not the, that was the 17th century, but yes. If we're talking about the tutors, don't laugh in my face. We're talking about whales here. Yes, the Welsh. So, what is the news item with the Princess of Whales? Kate Middleton? Yes. So, Kate has been missing from the public eye for some months. And people were speculating as to where the hell she was. And, you know, like, many things, like, all things on the internet, all things that are discussed on the internet, it gives away to speculation and conspiracy and memes. And, you know, Kate was last seen on Christmas, like, publicly, like her last public appearance was on Christmas. And then it was announced that she was admitted to a hospital mid-January for a scheduled abdominal surgery. That was all that was kind of stated from the Royal, like, press team, the palace, like, press team or whatever. Anyway, so she had this abdominal surgery that was planned. And, like, William visited her. She's discharged, like, two weeks later. And she's, like, since this, like, end of Jan, like mid-Jan, actually, since Christmas, she hasn't been seen, you know, people are wondering where she is. And they start, like, the first kind of thing I saw around this was that people were speculating if she was getting, like, as a joke that she was, like, getting a BBL, a Brazilian butt lift, because the recovery for a BBL is really intense and you can't be, like, seen and, like, you can't really do anything. And that was obviously, like, a joke. Like, obviously, she didn't get a BBL, but the joke was, like, because the, like, recovery time was, like, comparable blah, blah, blah. So that was, like, a tongue-in-cheek conspiracy. But then, it really gets kind of crazy. So there's a photo of her. This isn't that crazy, but they're, it's ramping up. There's a photo of her in the car. And people are, like, that is not Kate. Like, she looks weird. Personally, I don't think she looked that weird. I think it's just a car photo, you know? And then, this is where it actually gets weird. She, on Mother's Day, she shared a photo of her surrounded by her three kids. And it was quickly taken down. And again, this is the first photo, like, publicly released photo that has emerged of Kate since Christmas. So, and this was around the time, like, that rumors about her were ramping up, about, like, her being dead, or in a coma, or getting into force. There's rumors that William is, was having a affair with this other, like, noble woman, royal adjacent woman. But anyway, like, there's a lot of online speculation, that's to, like, her whereabouts and her health. So she releases this photo, and very quickly, the AP news, like, in Getty Images 2, I think they say, like, this photo has been altered by its source, and, like, we're, like, removing it from, like, as an official photo, or whatever, like, they, like, yeah, they said, the AP, the associate press said, it appeared the source had manipulated the image in a way that did not meet AP photo standards. And, yeah, you can see, like, some, manipulation of like hands and blurring and stuff. - This photo is where I first started paying attention to this story. I was not following. - The men always dropping a little slow. All right, we took a little bit of time. But even though I really don't follow the royal family stuff, I was quite intrigued when I saw this photo because I think it is objectively a jarring photo. Like, yes, there's the fact that AP and other outlets said that it was digitally altered and took it down. - And again, AP has a lot of credibility here. - Yes, so it clearly is. But like, it's one of those things where I'm not saying artificial intelligence generated this image. I don't really know exactly how this image was processed. But sometimes with artificial intelligence images or whatever, it's just like, it's 99.9% there and you can't really pin what's off. But in this photo, you can tell something's a little bit off and even it's like, because it's so close to perfect, but not, it's like uncanny valley. It's uncanny valley to say. - It's a little bit uncanny valley. - And then like that the smiles are so big. The fact that like, I don't know. So, well, it looks like the photo of her is spliced from other photos of her. Like, to people, especially people really invested in conspiracy theories about her. Like, people were saying like, wow, the royals don't want to know. The royals don't want us to know what's really going on. So, we're trying to reassure them with this photo. And it's interesting too, 'cause she's sitting down and not standing up and like, why is she sitting? And she can't, she not stand, blah, blah, blah. But clearly they didn't want to show her in the state that she's in. Anyway, so that was bizarre. And then, you know, this conspiracy theories really take off. And she kind of like says, hey, like any other amateur photographer, I edited my photos and I'm sorry about that. And yeah, she becomes the subject of even more conspiracy theories. And people are like, yeah, yeah, she's in a coma, she's dead, et cetera. And then she comes out like sometime after, with the video, she's sitting alone on a bench. And she's saying like, hey, thanks everyone for the support, which is funny, because like, people were being kind of vicious to her and like, flip into about her. But she's like, thanks everyone for your support. Like, I was diagnosed with that abdominal surgery I had. It wasn't suspected to be cancerous, but it turns out there was some cancer. So I'm going, I'm undergoing chemotherapy. Thank you for your support, blah, blah, blah. So, yeah. So basically, it's a pretty simple and like, it's like, it's always like the most simple answer, you know, that's kind of what I took away from it. Like, she had abdominal surgery and she found out she had cancer, like, and now she's going undergoing treatment. Like, that's a pretty like, simple explanation. You know what I mean? So of course, a lot of these people, like, people with a conspiracy theories, there's two kinds are like, some are like, oh shit, like, I feel horrible about joking about a BBL. You know, like, she has cancer, like, this is horrible. Like, so there's that. And then there's another camp that's just like, oh, this video of hers, AI. Like, she doesn't have cancer. And this is just further the conspiracy theory goes even deeper. Yeah, so there's those as well. So yeah, what is your reaction? Well, I have to say, you know, leading up to this, I was seeing so much joy before the diagnosis, so much joy by so many people online who have nothing better to do than like, like, for a lot of people, this was like the most fun they've ever had on the internet was like digging, digging, digging through conspiracy theories, trying to figure out what happened to Kate Middleton. Oh my God, Kate Middleton's missing. It's so fun, it's so crazy, it's so weird. And, you know, that already is kind of like, a little bit disturbing in its own way, like, why on earth? You know, like, I don't want to like be too critical. Like, you know, it's okay to have fun. It's okay to like, come up with your own theories and stuff. And it's like, yeah, there are public figures. And if you're a public figure, you're going to have to deal with that. Yeah, if it sucks. And like, they are like, you know, like the real family lives off taxpayer money. So like, transparency is like, you know, you can make the argument that the public is owed transparency, if, you know, they're paying taxes to support them. Ba, ba, ba. Regardless of that, like, it did it come across as a little bit like weird to me. It was, I mean, I think it's, I think it's, it's, it's very bizarre. And like, I, like, you know, it's kind of like a really, even though like, it's a, it's a dark, it's a dark twist, you know, like, but it's also not surprising, like you were saying, like, you shouldn't be surprised that when someone is, is seeking privacy after surgery, that this is not like a fun event to be like digging, you know what I mean? Like, you shouldn't be surprised that if someone is hiding from the public eye after surgery, you shouldn't be too surprised when the reasoning for that is because they have cancer and not because of some fun, you know, divorce going on that's going to make a great Netflix series, like three years from now or something. Like, yeah, for real. So I, I, I, I, this is awful. This is awful, but I have to say it. These people who were making a big spectacle and having a lot of fun with this story before the diagnosis, they were pissing me off. And the fact that this is being flown in their face with this awful diagnosis, I get a little bit of satisfaction watching these people fall on their faces after being so bluntly and so blatantly, like, I hope you learned your lesson a little bit. Even though they didn't do anything wrong, like, I know I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm being an asshole, like, they really didn't do anything. Like, there's not, there's really nothing too wrong. It's just bothered me. Like, it just felt, it felt, it bothered me and then maybe there's no reason to it. Maybe I'm just being an asshole. But that's how I feel about it is they were pissing me off digging, you know, going crazy, obsessing over a celebrity like this is, is weird. And this is like, let me, let me take it back. Let's talk, you know, I don't, let's just, let's, let's talk a bit about what you were saying about how the explanation is like, it's so much more banal than like, yeah, exactly. You want it to be. Yeah. I mean, you know, a royal, a royal like a princess getting cancer is obviously very dramatic and sad. But that is significantly less, um, you know, mind blowing than some bigger conspiracy, um, involving like, you know, trying to cover up a death or whatever people are saying, um, I feel like my point here is like, when the public is kept in the dark, and I don't mean this, but like, necessarily by deliberate forces, I mean, like, when there is a absence of information, um, about something, I feel like there is inevitably going to be, and I think the internet facilitates this. But I think there's like inevitably going to be speculation. And considering the current state of politics, the like QAnon, uh, like phenomenon, like Elon Musk, Elon Musk, X in general. Yeah, it's exactly like X in general. Now the news is there's no like consensus as to like, what is true. And what is not true, like the criteria by which we judge that we, we don't agree on that anymore. Like we might, we may have like used to agree that, okay, AP news, like we can, it's like non biased, we can trust it as like a source. But now like people don't trust, like people's ideas of like, what is true and like, what can determine something to be true. It's not connected anymore. And I agree with everything you said. And, and this is also an Another thing too is like, with the introduction of artificial intelligence, image generation. - Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. - Even though this image that was created, I don't think it was actually created with artificial intelligence, just because like, even though there's no AI involved in this story, just because it exists, you can't help but wonder maybe this is AI generated. - There's, you know, this plausible deniability for anything now, because you can just say it's AI, like this photo of me, like stealing from targets, AI generated. - And this is really interesting because I think we've all thought a lot about the way that artificial intelligence, videos and images are going to create fake stuff, but I don't think I've done very much thinking about how the existence of AI is going to decrease our trust in real stuff, you know? And again, this is like how I feel about AI images, and I've talked about this a million times on the show, is that the benefit of AI imagery just does not, it just doesn't seem worth it, compared to like the amount of harm it can do. - Yeah, the imagery stuff is, that's definitely, well, I think, you know, but I have to say though, I think even, like, I think it's, yeah, I think this is like the first, I can't think of any, maybe there's other examples, but I feel like this is the first major news story we have witnessed, where from start to finish, and I guess even continuing now with continued conspiracy theorists, the entire story, even though it's actually a very banal, straightforward story, the entire story is infected and kind of diminished. Because of the existence of AI, even though AI is not involved in this story, even though AI is really not, AI is literally not involved in this story, but literally-- - But who can say it isn't? You know, I'm like, you can't even say that. - I, I mean-- - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, like-- - So if you, I'm joking, don't worry. - No, I know that, but like, no one can say, like, anything is an AI. - I can say-- - I actually am an AI expert. - You can say-- - No, I don't think it's a AI, I'm just saying, like-- - I, so if you know-- - You know, I'm joking, I know, I'm joking-- - No, no, no, no, no, I know I'm just trying to make sure that listeners understand what I'm trying to say. - The listeners don't even know, maybe, hey, maybe you and I are AI right now. - There's no way of proving that we're not-- - There's literally no way. - That's the thing. That's what I'm trying to say. There's no way of proving that we're not AI. - All right, this is actually, if I have, look, if I have undiagnosed, deeply repressed, not yet coming to fruition, schizophrenia, this conversation would be the conversation that would bring it out, because I literally, just for a split second, had like a little bit of anxiety that like, you're actually AI right now. - Oh my God, that's so scary, Kaya. No, I'm really scared. I'm not even kidding, you're no, I'm really scared now. - This reminds me of a creepy pasta. - Oh my God. Wait a minute, Sophie, we got the whole story wrong. - Sophie, when we started this conversation, we were gonna talk about how conspiracy theories are bad, but maybe they're good. - Kaya, I'm actually getting really freaked out right now. I'm not even joking. - Okay, well, let's take a breather before we continue the conversation. I'm not AI, don't worry. None of this is AI, it's not AI, don't worry. I read, as I like teen, about like this man who starts, I think it's called psychosis, and it's like this man who like starts like, like gets into this paranoid state where he like is like, he's kind of like stuck in his room and he like, here's voices outside like people calls and like he realizes that like, he hasn't seen anyone in days, he's only heard it through his phone and through like outside his door. And like, he's convinced that like, if they see, like if they're, if he actually like opens the door, like sees anyone, like these people in person, like they're actually just like robotic voices and that like, whatever's out there is gonna get him. It's really scary. - I'm sorry. - Yeah, well, I didn't expect this to go here, but anyway, the point is that we, there's just, and I wanna say like, AI combined with this normalization of an amplification of conspiracy theories by like gatekeepers of information like Elon Musk, you know what I mean? Like, we in Trump, like basically, conspiracy theories and AI are just, are basically dominating X right now. - So wait, wait, wait. So yes, I love everything you just said and I'm gonna read one sentence here from the Wikipedia article on this topic. Hold on, I just lost it. - On, on Kate? - There's a Wikipedia article on where is Kate and this is the sentence from it. CNBC reported that 276,000 articles had been written about Catherine since the beginning of 2024. Almost three times the number of articles are written about the US president Joe Biden and former president Donald Trump combined. - Seriously? - So that is according, this is according to CNBC, which is-- - That's really hard to, you mean this year? - Yes. - Oh, okay, so-- - So in 2024, there's been three times as three times, you combine all the articles about Joe Biden, Trump, written in 2024. You multiply it by three. That's how many articles have been written about the Princess of Wales in 2024. - That's crazy. - So just even though we don't like artificial intelligence imagery creating these issues and we don't like Elon Musk and Trump normalizing being a conspiracy theorist, it does seem like also, I mean, I don't know who's publishing these articles, but it seems like there's also some like media institutions too that are playing into this 'cause it's sensationalist. - Well, yeah, and I could get into how the modern news ecosystem regularly has to cow-tow to advertisers to exist, you know what I mean? And in order to do that, they have to produce content that's like really a political and really good at generating views. And this is like the perfect thing because it's not like politically divisive or it's not really anything of real substance, but it will get a lot of clicks. And yeah, it doesn't surprise me at all that-- I mean, it is shocking, but at the same time, it's like, of course they would push this. It's like the perfect way to get people to read and watch ads. - Well, and look, I also wanna just real sit quick say too. I'm, even though I was having an arrogant moment there where I was frustrated at the average person for obsessing over this, I can't say I'm much better than that then because I also, during this story, when this photo, this faltered photo was released, I also was intrigued as someone who doesn't really follow the royal stuff very much. - It was objectively-- - I don't want to blame the audience. I don't want to blame the public for speculating and having fun with this completely because we're all human. This is how we're taught to engage with pop culture. You know, like this is just normal. This is very normal for, especially on social media. This is like normalized behavior. I'm not saying it's good behavior, but it's very normalized behavior. And I don't want to like shit on people for like, you suck for making this, you know, thinking about this and having conspiracy theories about this, you suck. Like, I don't want to say that, but I think the real fall, the real L here was Kate's team because what happened was in an attempt to quell or prevent like a media nightmare, a million articles about her health, blah, blah, to protect. I don't know, maybe they were worried that if they found out about her cancer, they'd think she wouldn't be fit to be. What's the word? It's queen, but not queen. - Oh, the princess has cancer. I don't think she's fit to be princess anymore. - Well, she's, you know, she's going to become queen, not actually queen, what's, I forgot what it is called, but it's like the, it's queen something. It's when like the president, I mean, oh my god, it's when the, - The vice queen. - She's vice queen. - No, no, no, no, no. It's like, 'cause like queen Elizabeth was queen and her husband was king, but not actually king. You know what I mean, like she had more, she actually had the throne, you know what I mean? But they call it like king something. Like he's not actually king, but he's like married to the queen. But anyway, like she's about to be that, but for willing. So she's not gonna actually have the throne, but she's gonna be married to the guy who has the throne. Yes. But is her title gonna be Queen though? Yes, it's, let me look up the title 'cause I-- Okay, yeah, look that up. I need to note, now you've got me invested in the royal stuff. I'm like obsessed with the royal family for no reason. You're royal-pilling me. I'm royal-pilled, I'm not a royalist, but I'm like into the royal-- I find it fascinating 'cause I like history. And as you can tell from listening to this, I'm not the most educated on all the intricacies of the royal family, but I do keep up-- That's a good thing, that's a good thing. Yeah, that is a good thing, but I have my vices, you know? Oh yeah, history, such a vice. No, no, no, but like the royal family, like no one, like the modern royal family. Like they are basically like leeches, like no one cares, you know, but like-- Oh yeah, remember when we had the conversation-- Oh, okay, so actually, I've got to take this moment real quick to remind the audience, and this is true. This is actually true, and we're going to say it over and over again. Based news network. Oh yeah. So we need to tune our horn. Based news network was the first news outlet to report the story of Queen Elizabeth's death. It's true. It's actually true. It's actually-- we were the first ones to do it. It's true. It's true. Go look at everyone, go look at-- look up the timestamps. Go look, we have a special edition breaking news episode about this way back when that happened. And we posted on Instagram. This is before the base news network Instagram existed, so you might have to go on either mine or Sophie's. You're now we're going to find it, because it's probably so deep. But if you really want to find it, the day that she died, go to that day on my account or Sophie's account, and find the post that were re-announced that she died, and look at the time we posted it, and then see if you can find another article that came out that day before that time announcing that she died. You won't be able to do it because we literally broke that news. That's so awesome. That was a great moment in our career. Anyway, so what is it? Sophie, can we update our podcast's description or website or artwork to say in italics the ones who broke the news? Can we please make that our tagline? I really feel like we need to cement that as we did that. Can we start every episode reminding people or something? I mean, I guess we get it. You don't like welcome to base news network. There's popular. Well known for in 2023 breaking the news. 2022. All right, all right. I should know that was that was 2022 is the best year of our lives, because that's when we finally broke. We finally got it. We got our name on the radars and news outlet that year. We did. Because we broke that story. Yes, that is definitely why. Anyway, yeah, so consort. That's what they're called. So Queen Elizabeth's husband was King Consort, and Kate Middleton will become Queen Concert of when William is King William. So Camilla, Camilla, who is married to King Charles. She's the one who like Charles was always in love with even when he was married to Diana. Like if Diana had lived and had stayed married to King Charles right now, if she were still alive and still married to him, she would be Queen Consort. Anyway, so maybe what I was trying to say is like maybe her. Anyway, like her PR team, maybe they were worried that people would like say, oh, she's not ready to be Queen Consort. She's too weak, which is so stupid. But anyway, or maybe they're another thing, another factor as well, could be that, you know, after Queen Elizabeth died, the public's interest in maintaining the monarchy declined. And if they saw like, because remember right now King Charles has prostate cancer or he probably has prostate cancer, we don't know. They didn't actually specify, but he went in for a prost in large prostate. So like people have put two and two together, although it is strange that they wouldn't clarify what kind of cancer it is. Anyway, so the king has cancer right now, which is like, oh, could, you know, William be becoming King soon or something like that. Is he King Consort or just King? King Charles? Yeah. He's King. He's the son of Queen Elizabeth. So, okay, so I understand that he gets like a fancier title. Well, he's like actually King. I understand, but like, he has the throne. He's actually King. What does that actually mean though besides, it's like, tag your it, right? Like, it doesn't actually, he doesn't actually have power. He's just like it. No, they don't really have any power, but they have like quote duties. I do believe they can kind of consult with the parliament or something like that. I really don't know. I don't know their political exact political power. They don't really have any political power though. They're more of a figurehead. And they still have duties. And they're, I think they are important to like the UK's like diplomacy because they like do a lot of like, like they visit like parts of the British like former British Commonwealth and like. Oh my God. Sophie, I think I just figured out how to solve America's problems. Listen, no, please listen, please. Listen, listen, listen, this is so important. I know what you're going to say. We make, we make Donald Trump king. Yeah. And we don't, we don't have, we don't let him have any power. He's so happy. But he would be happy. All of his supporters would be so happy. King Trump. King Trump. Like, that's all they want. They don't, they don't care what he does. They just want him to be king, you know? Yeah. Like, well, that would fix it. We let the Republicans just have the king. And then the Democrats can have like the presidency, the board. And also like, I would like Trump as president. I mean, no, no. No. I would like him as king. I would like him as, he was already king. Like, we already have a king basically. Yeah. He was the, like, his role in the apprentice TV show was basically being king. That's true. Yeah. Kids these days don't even know about the apprentice. I love how you knew what I was going to say, but I still had to say it. Well, I wanted to let you say it. It was your idea. And like, that's, that's a huge compromise, by the way. Like, I don't really want him to be king. I don't think he should be king. Well, Kayo, I hope that you're weekly call with Biden. We'll, we'll allow you guys to discuss this. He listens to the show, the podcast. He's a friend of the pod. This is how he makes his decisions. Listen. That would make sense. That's why our country's doing so amazing. Anyway, blah, blah, blah. So, anyway, like, her PR team was like probably worried that, or the royal PR team is probably worried that people would be like, even more disillusioned and like less invested in the monarchy, like continuing. So, that's like, like, maybe a reason why they were so vague about what was going on with her. But what they should have done is just came out right away and what they did with the king, which they said the king has cancer. You know, like, they didn't, I guess they didn't, they didn't technically specify, but like, they just flat out said what was going on. They strung the public along for like months. Didn't say what was going on and created this, created this like these conditions that were conducive to conspiratorial thinking. With this lack of information, these like vague hints drops, these weird pictures coming out. Of course, the public's going to speculate about it because it's weird. Like, why didn't they just come out and say it? Okay, well, there's a few things though. One, yes, they didn't handle it perfectly by really seeing this photo and stuff. Well, not that, but they just didn't say what was going on right away. They should have just said what was going on. Okay, but there's a few things. Well, so to that, like, first off, like, I do think that she should be able to have that privacy. That's a good point, but like, what happened was, it was just way worse though. But that's not like, you know, like, that's not like, they're fault. That's like the media's fault. Like, if she wants to not tell people she has cancer and the media starts doing conspiracy theories, like, it sucks, but like, I feel like she should be able to have that privacy. I agree, but also like, if let's be realistic though, but like her position in society. Okay, but just another thing though is sometimes, diagnosed in cancer can take a long time. That's true. You know maybe maybe like there's like I don't know about four months but maybe maybe you know they need to do a bunch of tests to figure out is it really cancer? Is it how serious is it is it gonna kill her? You know like there's probably like a probably a lot of it was like maybe maybe I don't know I'm speculating I'm giving them a very large benefit of the doubt but maybe the reason they didn't come out and say it is because they didn't know exactly what was going on with her health yet. Yeah that's definitely possible but I think they should have been a little more clear about like instead of like releasing some digitally manipulated weird photo and I'm placing the blame on Kate. Oh that is so weird like actually even if you have cancer you could still get a photo of yourself without digitally altering it. Well yeah I mean but I mean the idea would be maybe that she's like doesn't like she might look ill even though she just released a video for self I don't know. Yeah like the thing is like them like releasing this like digitally altered weird photo to reassure the public that Kate's okay totally backfired and put her in a like way worse position. I guess I agree no actually I do agree I agree I agree completely and you know maybe it's also another part of it is like maybe they are just kind of used to like the old school way of being a royal family dealing with controversies. You know what I mean like probably back in like the 1980s or 70s before really the internet was super mainstream maybe back in the 1970s the royal family playbook was if there's a scandal or controversy or conspiracy theory to ignore it but maybe now with the internet that that old school royal family playbook doesn't work anymore and it makes things worse. Yeah no I think for sure like they're the royal the palace is like learning to navigate how to navigate the internet and again like the advent of AI and this rise in conspiratorial thinking on the internet spreading conspiracy theories it's probably something they aren't prepared for. Can we talk about other conspiracy theories too while we're at it? Yeah but I just like my thesis I like just my conclusion concluding thought here is that like the public we're just in a situation there's truth to K we just don't like we do not take things at face value anymore and I know that sounds kind of like bad because like oh yeah we should be doing our own research we should be looking into things I agree with all that but even if something comes from multiple verifiable trusted news sources it's cross-checked so many you know like it's it's it's these like gatekeepers of information and like these like formerly respected institutions of like truth verification are no longer trusted by the public and what happens is like we don't and no one has like a shared understanding of what how we discern determine what is true and what's not and this helps create this like an environment of conspiracy theories because what happens is like you can't say like oh you can't call something a conspiracy theory and you can't say like oh that's obviously stupid and not true like all these verifiable like trusted new sources contradict your point all these like experts contradict your point and then people are like well that's your opinion like this is this is like how can you say that what I think is not true and like all your sources are owned by the liberal media and publicly owned by like liberal evil Q&A you know what I mean so what I'm trying to say is I feel like the internet is so insane now that the story just like spun out of control and in part due to like the failure of her PR team but also the internet it just won't it won't accept a simple truth like they need it it won't satisfy them they need something crazy you know what I'm gonna say I'm gonna say it it's not punk it's the I'm gonna say something that's not punk and it's also a little bit controversial but I think it just needs to be said if you have the option to either believe something that's put out by a big mainstream news source or something that's put out by like a small like Twitter account that contradicts that 99% of the time the big mainstream media source is gonna be it's gonna be to tell the truth it's true and it's not because like it's because they have to uphold these standards these ethical standards in order to remain it's like their license to operate otherwise they'd be like lose their credibility so they have these break they have money on the line they they have rigorous standards and this is not to say that there isn't any bias because there is because again like they also rely on advertiser money but I wouldn't as much say like it would be like an ethical breach like it wouldn't fly for like companies to be like buying stories like you know I mean like like like like influencing the media that like intimately but they you know it does encourage the media to like push really like the stories of no substance because they get a lot of clicks so I think the thing the thing is is that we can agree all of us can agree that the mainstream media sucks because it's biased the mainstream media does a terrible job but your choices are either the mainstream media or some weirdo on Twitter and the mainstream media one even though that one sucks is actually the lesser of two yeah they have they have ethical standards and they have random person on the internet does does not necessarily have they don't have good ethical standards but they at least have some I think they're I mean I think they're some of them are definitely good like the ethical standards are pretty good okay well the ethical standards are like to you know report the truth and like you know like you can't like just lie you can't make up shit on in the news I remember being a college student 10 years ago down on I don't maybe it was a 10 years ago yes so I remember being a college student about 10 years ago and feeling just so much anger and frustration against the mainstream media for failing to really shed the light shed a light on so many issues that plague our world and I was I was right and I said and that's that all still is true true it's true but now that I live in the crazy world of 2024 I'm like I want to go back to that like even though that was like even though that that like mainstream stuff was like lame and failing in so many ways I like I much prefer that then Elon Musk on Twitter tweeting a conspiracy theory about the great replacement theory about Democrats bringing in immigrants and like and then he like it's like 200,000 likes and he captioned exactly this is true by the way even though literally nothing in that video is true like yeah if those are my choices I'm like damn bring me back to bring me back to 2018 okay so that was not 10 years ago I was okay all right look I'm not gonna age myself here Sophie it was it how long was that it doesn't matter the point is so let's talk about can we just real quick because there's there's more I mean like we don't have that much this is applying to so many like really big stories going on right now the bridge the bridge collapsed and it's already conspiracy so that is already conspiracy theories that was an inside job because again there's this like they're it's so quick there's like this absence of information probably because these news outlets don't want a report too soon because if they publish incorrect information it hurts it harms their credibility like I'm saying like they have these ethical standards and because there's like it's so because it's so insane like the video is so shocking and because like we don't know the full tea yet and the information spreads so quickly on the internet and gives people a voice that they can amplify of course there's gonna be a bunch of conspiracy theories I have a question for you I have a question for you so I think a big part of this a really big part of this is with Donald Trump he very much like normalized conspiracy theories with like yeah the COVID stuff and I think the biggest one is like the conspiracy theory that the election was stolen from him a huge I mean that is a huge conspiracy theory like if that were huge if that were true if that were true that would be like such a a ground but it'd be insane is a huge conspiracy it's like it's one of those [BLANK_AUDIO] theories that are just huge and he continues to push it and his supporters and also like a significant portion of the US population believes it exactly. So my question for you Sophie is to what extent it did Donald Trump contribute to this new world of truth decay versus to what extent does his popularity is his popularity a product of truth decay from the internet? Well, like everything both things are probably true to an extent. But you know I'm sure well I'm trying to think I feel like this idea of truth decay really took off around the 2016 election because it was also around the time that Facebook became more of a news platform than it used to be. Like oh yeah that's right and there's a whole conversation about Mark Zuckerberg and yeah exactly people are sharing yeah no people are sharing news now it's becoming a news platform and again this is also around the time that you can I mean a few years earlier I believe but like I think 2013 I can't remember but anyway like the like button the share button etc like basically tools of engagement that encourage behavior that's like encourages content that grabs your attention and inspires emotional reactions like inspires you to share it inspires you to comment saying like this is horrible this is so fake you know what I mean like that's going on and also news is taking off and what happened was um they like some like I think it was I can't remember where they're from they were like in some Eastern European country Serbia I mean I cannot remember what the country sorry guys that is so offensive to just pick a random country no I think it was Serbia but I could be wrong I really could be wrong so no anyways it was an Eastern Romania something no it was an Eastern European country that were some like younger young men like started making like pages that like would just make literally just mass produce fake news designed to get as much engagement as possible and they're making like a ton of money from this from like ads I think anyway like this was around that they started posting like a ton of like anti-hillary like pro Trump stuff like crazy stuff and that really um contributed to a lot of like like like Trump's success I think like it was Macedonia Macedonia okay so that's not really that's more like Southern like Europe like that's more like Balkan but anyway it's all the same to me okay they're all just Europeans say that anyway um so again like it's around the the election is around the time like the time where Facebook is becoming this like major political um force so I okay can I just chip in real quick and say so remember how I did that whole thing about when I was in college we'll say seven years ago uh and then I was mad at the mainstream media but now I'm like oh my god I want it back because what's what exists now is worse yeah there's another parallel with that seven years ago I was like oh my god I hate Mark Zuckerberg and now I'm like oh my god I want Mark Zuckerberg back because what we have is worse Elon you mean yes because because Elon has literally helped me have re-habilitate Elon has rehabilitated Mark Zuckerberg's just by just by being way worse just by yes and by the way Mark Zuckerberg deserves or deserved or I don't know it's maybe it's debatable how much he deserves but he deserves at least some criticism for helping usher in this like world of truth decay as we'll call it uh and and he deserves that criticism but at this point now with Elon Musk because like Elon because you know Mark Zuckerberg's mistake was like oh we we tweaked some algorithms in a in a toxic way Elon Musk is like we are very intensely purposely tweaking algorithms in a toxic way and out of my own mouth I'm going to give you conspiracy theories yeah so yeah that I and I you know I'm not a scholar and I feel like I'm kind of just giving you chunks of information and like trying to string them together to form an like an analysis here but um I'm sure there's like many other factors that can have contributed to this but this is kind of my perspective in me like speaking extemporaneously like on the spot hmm valid valid points and I I personally you know I think yeah it's it's multiple variables it's not really anything that we can point to like one thing but I really really feel like Donald Trump is a pretty big variable he is he's a big ol he's a big okay all right no I'm gonna stop you there okay but he's a he was coming up around like like his his campaign it was a perfect storm because it and and um another thing too like his campaign like people his social media people knew about like Facebook and used like Facebook ads to promote like like mass target like it voters like by like can bridge and this kind of stuff remember that can bridge out over that can bridge in a litiga yeah I think so that was a that was a thing yeah that was a thing that was a thing too so there's a lot of shit going on but you know it was it was it was just like a perfect storm and again like it doesn't I don't know it didn't just like magically appear in 2016 like there were conditions that like let up to this you know like like this I don't know the world is so complex you know like there's a bunch of stuff going on a perfect storm that kind of Trump is definitely a big part of it though so I googled Macedonia and it's a beautiful country and it has a view it's by it's by Croatia it's it's it's Biden it's actually by it's it's just over with nose it's by Croatia it's by Serbia it's by Kosovo it's by Greece by Albania by Bulgaria the Balkans the Balkans it's a beautiful country eat it I love the flag and I meant no disrespect to our Macedonian friends thank you kio for that statement all right so yeah do you is there anything else or no I'm down to move to our recommendation thank yes all right what do you recommend what are you recommending ah fudge I didn't actually prepare anything but it's okay well we got something we can think of something okay so I would recommend let me think real quick what if it was oh I have something to recommend okay could I recommend the genie the genie plus pack again well well plug our patreon because we talk about this on patreon too yeah and our on our latest patreon episode which maybe out by the time this comes out maybe not I don't know we'll see we talk about Disney World and the genie plus pass is very worth it so you can get all right slash pass okay okay so I on the plane home from New York I watched a movie called Persepolis I think that's how you say it um it's from 2007 and it is a animated film it's based on a comic book um here's the like synopsis on letterboxed in 1970s I ran Marjan Margie Stratapi and it's made by this woman and I think it's like semi-autobiographical anyway watches events through her young eyes and her idealistic family of a long dream being fulfilled by the hated shaw's defeat in the Iranian Revolution of 1979 however as Margie grows up she witnesses firsthand how the new Iran now ruled by Islamic fundamentalists has become a repressive tyranny on its own and like she kind of like goes from Iran to like Europe and then back to Iran then to France at the end and it's like a really like interesting portrait of like I don't like living through a revolution and authoritarianism and the animation is just beautiful the story is really compelling and like I really and like it was it's really sad and like hard hard to watch in some parts of it but it's also like really funny and beautiful and yeah I'd I'd really recommend it it was awesome I'm about to say something very not feminist oh god before you watch a movie movie, you need to ask me for permission because look, that's actually not what I wanted to say. Before you watch, before you watch a movie, you should let me know because I might want to watch it too. I wanted to watch, I wanted to watch this with you. That's all. You did? I would like to watch this. Well, you knew about the movie though. No, but it's good. I already knew about it. Yeah. I've been wanting to watch it for years. It was on my letterbox. Watch this for years. I'd love to rewatch it. It was amazing, but it was on the plane and I was like, okay, I'll just watch it. It's French. That's a French film. That would be really messed up. I want to watch this movie in the plane, but I don't have a connection to tell my boyfriend, so I'm not going to watch a movie. There's probably some movies that I would do that for, but I just didn't know. No, no, no. It's kind of like an indie film that animated film that people don't know about. It's like not super popular or well known. Anyway, I mean, it kind of has been anyway. It was amazing. I think it actually was nominated for an Oscar. It was great. It was awesome. Anyway, yeah, that's my recommendation. Good. I liked it. Thank you. Well, thanks everyone for listening. Check out our Patreon. And leave a review and write a review. Write a review, write a review. Five stars and share and follow, oh, that rhymed. I'm somewhat of a musician. All right. This has been Based News Network. Bye.