KARL-ANTHONY TOWNS: How I Survived the Hardest Year of My Life

this espresso is extremely hot and we're gonna fight we're fighting don't burn your tongue don't burn your tongue take a beat yeah do not burn your tongue if the alcohol ain't do it it's not gonna do it this way i can tell you that hey it's jay i don't know what your day's been like but i was just thinking about you for a minute and i hope you're being a little patient with yourself because you deserve it and yeah i'll talk to you soon carl anthony towns welcome to on purpose man what's up huge congratulations everyone in the world is talking about this moment i feel like even my friends back in england people are messaging me oh my god new york looks crazy i was at game four oh okay msg yes 29 points down yes how do you remember that night well i appreciate you staying in your seat because it was a tough game but um i remember that night just i remember looking at jordan my my fiance and just telling her before the game i feel really good about tonight and i had a really good energy about it i felt really good about our team you know we lost game three in a heartbreaking fashion i felt really good about us responding saw the shoot around we looked very focused prepared you know i felt really good going into game four obviously it did not look good until halftime i remember looking at jordan i was like maybe i was wrong and in the game and you know i have time just rallying the troops telling them you know we've done this before experience teaches you a lot in life and you know a lot of times when you're young you always see people who are older than you your elders and who have had experiences and you say well that was yours that's not mine you know you realize we're all a lot a lot alike and i was just leaning on that experience of last year against boston coming back multiple times by 20 at their house i was telling our guys like think about this we're going to win this game we're going to win it we've been in this situation before at an opponent's house we got our fans behind us and we have a chance to still swing for the fences and um trust our experience and we found a way to get to get the job done i'll never forget og tipping the ball back in because right hand of god man was it a relief seeing him do that or was that like no it sounds like you watched a game he tipped it in i was ready to dunk it so we had two offensive rebounds ready to happen and og man he's just special he's always been special and i always tell him even games not going in the way og and anobio always in the fourth quarter finds a way to make his presence known and he did exactly that but when you were saying that at halftime were you saying that to each player looking them in the eyes you know when you're in the huddle you get in the locker room and just speaking out loud and everyone just looking at me and just talking you know just understanding the situation is we're down 29 plus point you know down 25 plus points 29 points it can't get any worse and at the end of the day we had the experience of being down 24 i believe in boston and coming all in and getting the game so it's going to take that one special play at the end to win the game because once you fight back you still got to make that one play last year both games was mikhail bridges getting a stop getting a steal and this year it was an offensive play with og you said this this idea that this is such a life-changing moment it's an unbelievable accomplishment what's the most surprising thing about being a champion now like what is the most surprising thing about this moment that you wouldn't have known until now when you're living it when i said earlier hearing that champion that champion champion champion champion champion champion champion champion champion like i don't even know how you want to say a moniker you want to say whatever like that like just hear that next to your name is something you don't ever think you're going to hear in your life not me as a competitor i felt my championship was always on the way but i thought it was going to be on my timing it was on god's timing when i got my championship when i say that when i was younger you never think you're going to make the nba you never know if you have a chance i was just hoping to get a college scholarship that was always the goal just get a college scholarship and find a college and uh i found myself here and um the thing that's so surprising with winning a championship is something life has taught you and i think you'll understand this is your whole life you see something and you see this goal and you set this goal and you run towards this goal with all your might all your will all your strength and then you finally get to it and the moment goes by so quick and next thing you know you're like what's next we won the championship on uh saturday we flew back we were back home sunday morning we flew right after the game and by sunday afternoon i'm like what's next you know what's what are we doing here like there's no more basketball to be played i still worked out after winning the championship i was like i can't stop like there's no way you could tell me after being so locked in and turned up about playing basketball that i could just turn down and unlock myself back to the real world it was it was something i can't comprehend and any nba player basketball player football player professional athlete i think they understand what i'm going to say which is it's that first week out of competition that is so tough because you gotta in essence find yourself again you know it's not as easy as it sounds to just oh well just go on vacation and stuff the vacation first two days it feels awkward to be there because it may be it's like a for us it's an all-star break it's a two-day break you know sometimes in the regular season you'll get three days between a game and maybe you're like in orlando you're in you know you get to go to disney world with your family and stuff where you're in uh houston and you get to go golfing and you get to go you know enjoy some sun or something like that but like the first couple days is it's very it's very weird and i haven't even really started my off season because yesterday was the parade yeah exactly you know what i'm trying to say so i feel for me on monday i'm gonna really have a tough time not waking up to go to the court to play basketball not waking up to go lift heavy in the weight room not used to seeing my teammates my brothers you know we have accomplished the highest goal possible but now we all have to separate to go live our lives you know and take care of our kids our family you're so aware of that though i feel like some people win or go through that and athletes i've spoken to they think about it years later yeah but you're so aware now how are you trying to slow it down experience it celebrate be still for this moment right well i mean anyone who watched the parade you see i was definitely in the moment and i was living in it um but i do think even with the parade like there's a difference between living in the moment getting lost in the moment and i found myself living into the point i lost myself in the moment i was having so much fun i was enjoying the moment seeing the crowd seeing the jubilation of the fans seeing a lot of people to like finally give me the greatest currency in new york which is respect and just seeing them being able to give me that respect at the pinnacle of the mountain i was losing myself in the moment just watching these people and and just being so happy that you know as any person you at the top of the podcast game you just want to be respected for what you do you know and to finally get that respect to finally have people appreciate my craft it was a really cool feeling i got myself lost in the moment because that respect for my craft hasn't always been there in my career and these are one of those few moments where i get to really sit back and allow the fans to show me what i'm capable of and i'm able to show them what i'm capable of and i'm able to give them the love and respect um i've worked for so hard for this episode is presented by state farm we spend so much energy becoming the best version of ourselves building better habits showing up more fully embracing mindfulness but sometimes the most purposeful thing you can do is just handle the thing you've been putting off if getting your insurance sorted has been living on that list state farm is there to help you choose the coverage that's right for you go online at statefarm.com and you'll be able to get that coverage that's right for you go online at statefarm.com or use the easily accessible app to get help from one of their over 19 000 local agents like a good neighbor state farm is there living in the moment lost in the moment i'll never forget that and and uh and yeah you deserve the respect man as we do on this podcast i love going backwards because i'm fascinated by how people became who they are yeah and i wanted to ask you what's a childhood memory you have that you think defines who you are today i had to go on a walk with my dad first of all that is not normal so i was like telling him i'm not going to be able to tell him my dad like i'm a young kid i have the whole world behind me in basketball this next basketball prodigy and been on covers of magazines and everything and i remember there was a guy he was uh he had asked to work me out and drove down he's one of the top gurus of workout trainers in the world and he was working him out he was working me out and he was trying to mold my game more into the traditional sense of a big man back in the day you know back to the basket get to these elbows boxes really that's it well me and my dad understand the vision i had for myself and my dad had the vision and i wanted to do that because this whole model was i want to make sure you have all the skills that a coach can never sit you he was the coach so he was like you i'm going to give you the skills to make sure i can never not play you you know working on my guard skills shooting three ball you know dribbling um being able to recognize different defenses at different places on the court being able to be a three level score that wasn't something at my size were supposed to be doing you're supposed to be back to the basket hook shots fade you know maybe a fade away if you're like super talented on the kg tim duncan off the backboard dirk novitski with the one leg and i could see his game was trying to model me more after that and i had a vision for myself that i would be the first of my kind well and i'm a young kid i think i was seventh grade sixth grade and i remember telling my dad one time like let's take a walk it's the same house my sister lives in now and we took a walk around the block and i know how my dad's a very you know prideful man takes you know he's a he's the head of the household And everyone's intimidated by him, except my mom. My mom didn't give a damn. And I just took a walk with him. I was like, Dad, listen, I appreciate you wanting to do the best for me. I know this guy has accolades and the credentials to say he would be better than you training me. But he wants to work out with me. He wants to work me out as a player because of the time we put in together. Because he sees something special in what we've done. I don't think he's the man for the job because no one understands the vision I have for myself more than you. And I think that we've gotten here and been highly successful doing it to the world together. And I don't see why we should stop doing that when you're the one who got me to this place. And you're the one that understands and believes in the vision that I have. And I remember walking. My dad and I didn't know how he was going to react. You know, he could be very like, no, like this guy is the one. He's this and this and this and this and that. But my dad looked at me and I felt like, you know, I'm older now. And obviously the vision we had was the right vision. I think he just looked at me and was so proud because. One, I was willing to have a tough conversation with him of all people who everyone runs away from having that combo from Coach Towns. But I think he could. I could see that I was very serious, that I believed in him more than I believed in anyone else. And I think when he saw that, he was like, you don't have to say anymore. I'll take it from here. Call the guys like, hey, I appreciate you working my son out and giving him a chance to see what you do and stuff. But I think we're going to go a different direction. How old were you? I think I was seventh grade. Wow. Yeah, I was like seventh grade. And I was just like, I seen it and look at it now. If I would have done that. I don't know if I would have been. The player I am today. I've done something in the NBA that hasn't been done before and shooting wise and with the guard skills and those skills and that vision has led me finally to a NBA championship. So that was that was big. And the small moment I always I think of I've never said this before, but my mom was big into birds. She was big into parakeets. It's a small story, but it means a lot. I remember one day she was cleaning the birdcage and everything like that. And the birdcage. The birdcage was open. And she said, hey, don't close the door. I'm young. I always listen. But you know how it is. You know, like I see the bird. The bird's never going to be that much quicker than me. I'm cat. Cat like reflexes. I never thought of that. And I remember I opened the door to go outside just to run around. And I let the door open and bird flies out. I said, oh, my God, I let down the one person in the world. I never want to let down, which is my mom. Love my dad to death. But my mom is everything. And my mom looked. And she goes, she didn't show not one sense of anger. I was like, oh, the bird had better places to be anyway. Wow. And that's beautiful. And I felt upset because I didn't want to let her down. And that's how I even today. I never want to let my brothers. I want to let my teammates down. My mom approached that situation with such calm and relax and forgiveness. That that one moment showed me a lot about especially doing this. This job, this craft, it's okay to forgive people. It's not okay to forget, but it's okay to forgive people. So they do not own any capacity of your life. And in doing that, when she had that story, I learned how important it is to not hold the grudge. And that you truly control how much the situation dictates your life. And it's something small and it's something so it would seem so insignificant, but that led to the conversation about losing material items. Like she was telling me how my grandfather gave her a watch and it was a gold watch. Didn't care about the brand. It was just nice. She was just like, I, one day went to the beach. I put the gold watch down on the thing. I went to the water. I came back, the towel and everything was there, but the gold watch was in the sand and I couldn't find it. And she said that my grandfather had told her, like, if you have ever lost something, it's not meant to be yours. And she was like, I've always believed that, that instead of me crying and getting upset about losing something and everything like that, it just wasn't meant to be mine anymore, or it wasn't meant to be what it is anymore. And, I just saved myself a lot of anguish and pain and things like that by just simply letting it go. Yeah. You got the monk background, you know how it is. So no, it's powerful. I didn't realize you were a philosopher too. It's powerful. I love it. I mean. I'm a man. I'm just man walking the path, just walking the path, man. No, but you're walking it noticing. Yeah. I've been thinking a lot about that recently. Like we talk a lot about presence or we talk a lot about being in the moment, but really it's people who notice things at these small moments, these small things, people say the little thing that your mom just said to you on the side, but it becomes something that you carry in your heart. What do you do now when you feel like you're letting people down, like whether it's your teammates, people that you love, do you even go through that or do you feel free from that? I just do everything in my power to capitalize on the present. You know, I think when you let people down is because, you know, one, it just wasn't your day and, you know, every one of your brothers and everything will notice that. But two, it's more of the fact of sometimes people get caught up in the future and the future never happens without the present and the past is already done. So there ain't nothing to get back from it. So I always just stay in the present. I'm big about staying in the present. Coach Calipari. He always told me, told us when we was there at college, we're one of the greatest college teams ever assembled. It was, you will never have a room of talent like the way I have the talent in this room right now. You will never have another. When you guys go to the NBA, you'll never be, have this amount of talent in one room ever again. So enjoy this moment. Capitalize on this moment. Don't let it slip by without being thankful for this. And I've always thought of that. I've always thought about it. And it goes back to what you said, just noticing things and actually listening. You know, I've. I've really listened to what people say and the way they act, the way the energy they present to, to us, to me, my wife. And it's, it's so powerful when you stay in the present, you have a, you have a very hard time of letting people down because you really were there and you were giving everything you had to make sure that present was taken care of. And then the future would be taken care of. Yeah. So I just always stay in the present, regardless of this, this conversation, it's me at brunch with. My fiance wife, I like saying white fiance just sounds, we got to get past that part with my wife, just having brunch or, um, being with my dad, being with my sister, her niece, my niece and nephew being at a baseball game with his baseball games and stuff. Like I'm real present about putting the phone away and everything and really, truly enjoying family time. I still grew up on appointment TV time with my, my family and my sister. So I appreciate those moments of pure silence because my life is full of noise. So I appreciate those moments when I get to really just disconnect from the world and truly have that one-on-one time. Yeah, I love that. I can tell, I mean, you can see it just in your presence from the moment you walked in the room, you can feel that when someone comes in and everything slows down around them, they're really where they are and it's, I feel like athletes have to have it to be as successful as you are. Yeah, everyone's so wired differently, you know, and I think a lot of times when people misunderstand people, they keep saying they have to believe an exact opposite. Exactly what they believe in, like, and if they don't believe in that, they're wrong. They're not wrong. They're just wired differently. Wired differently, yeah. Like I'm a man of people. I'm a man on a mission to just spread love to everybody, not because people believe in New York Knicks basketball or because they believe in how I feel about politics and stuff. I actually have had some of the best conversations with people who don't agree with what I think and just being able to sit like this, no mics, no cameras, no lights. And just really just, I just want to hear them out. I think it's fascinating to hear why people think the way they do. And you'll find a lot of times we're a lot alike and they just haven't had a person who has a different mindset or a different approach to the situation to just calmly speak to them in a loving manner of just having a simple conversation. And you find a lot of things are miscommunications in the world that just are being refused to be talked out. I fully agree with you. I think that the challenge we've created. In the world is we judge before we ask, we assume before we reflect, we choose to make a conclusion on someone before we even have the context of walking a mile in their shoes. And it's so easy to live that way, but actually it creates so many complexities moving forward for you. Did you ever doubt yourself on the way to the NBA? Was there a moment of insecurity, a moment of, I might not make it. To be honest, my confidence was always driven by my, my support system and my family. I never thought I wasn't going to make it. I always believed that anything that the success I would have while making it would be determined by how much I wanted to work. So I wasn't going to allow anyone to outwork me because I seen how my parents struggled. I seen how they worked nine to fives and was able to put food on the table. I always, you know, I'm blessed that maybe I didn't have millions of dollars growing up, but a silver spoon. But what I did have was a ton of love and that's more currency than anything you could get in a family. You know, I had so much love in my family family that that's that's all I ever needed I felt to be wealthy was just just love and I never doubted myself at all not one bit yeah even to this day I never doubted the championship wasn't coming my way but like I said I thought the championship would come on my time yeah and it was gonna come on what was your time and this was the first five years I would have loved you I thought I could get one in Minnesota right away and I thought on my time I would be getting this championship and God had other plans and I had to slow down and trust his timing and once I slowed down and said it's I'm on your timing I'm not gonna push what I want to happen I'm sitting here now with the championship moniker and uh it's pretty cool talking about family you've spoken about how important it is to you I also know and I'm so sorry for your loss but you lost eight family members during COVID and you were even hospitalized yourself and my dad my dad actually survived with my mom so how did you even begin to process that what was going through your heart and mind when you were going through it I mean I think the whole world was going through an epidemic we've never been through I've never seen New York have nobody in the streets you know nobody was you know the pictures were insane it looked like I am legend truthfully yeah I just feel like my life has built me up to be so mentally tough and it was never about rah-rah and screaming and yelling at people I I've always felt my leadership style was serving leadership I'm here to serve others that's literally when I'm at my best that's when I get to serve others whether that's with kindness love or uh in basketball being able to give them an assist be able to pick them up be able to score the basket so whatever mistake they made is covered up like I've always felt my my style was serving leadership I was just built up mentally to be able to withstand these kind of punishments and nothing could have prepared me for that I was just built up mentally to be able to do that and watching my mother lead the household and watching my father uh demand respect and gain respect um and being able to be tenacious with his competitive attitude competitively I knew I could go at this challenge of stepping into the head of the household stepping into taking care of my father stepping into her shoes as a competitor I wanted to do the best job I could do to match hers because I never thought I could win but I never thought I could win and I never thought I was going to lose so I was just more of like I could do this and I knew from watching her so up close for all these years I I knew how she approached different situations how she took care of people my grandmother her mom my father my sister in certain situations and being able to understand the meaning of love from her I was able to appropriately show that love to people show that love to our family and step into her shoes and I was able to do that and I was able to take care of the household being uh the the head of it and I feel like I'm doing a great job I feel like I'm making her proud and uh I just continue to stay in the present it's a challenge every day it's a challenge every single day to make sure everyone is uh feeling at their best you tragically lost your mom at that time and I wanted to ask like did you because it was COVID I lost people during COVID I couldn't even go back to see them did you get any last moments with her? Were you able to be there with her? I got to talk to her on FaceTime before I I had to make that decision of pulling the plug I I definitely I went and saw her personally with the hazmat suit and all I walked in the room I fixed her hair I made sure her toenails look good she looked fabulous for I remember eyebrows right before everything and uh yeah just white washed her face and and just make sure she was comfortable as possible and um had my final conversations with her and talking to her and everything like that and it was a crazy feeling it was it was crazy because it was you know I I felt we had real conversation she didn't say a word back to me but I felt like energy always always travels you know and I just remember being there right before there I remember being on the phone with my fiance now and my wife and Jordan and asking her what to do in these situations like when she was with her father and she gave me kind of like some tips and like letting me know it's gonna be okay and that's when I went upstairs in the hospital and saw her for the last time it was one of those things that like I didn't get lost in the moment I was living in the moment but the moment was very it was heavy it was a very heavy moment especially it was COVID so they didn't allow my father to go up there they didn't allow my sister to go up there it was only one person they all picked me to go it was one of those moments I uh it was it was tough conversations had and it was like conversations that I appreciated that I was always talking about staying in the present that I got to tell her a bunch of things alive when she was cognitive about a lot so we talked about everything there was only one thing we really never got to talk about and I used that moment kind of to talk to her about it and uh I'm glad I did it worked out can you share what that was I actually told her I said you know I have this friend of mine she's been helping me with all this stuff I've never introduced you properly to her we're friends I don't know what life has for us but you know let me know if this is supposed to be something that is going to happen or will happen but I know when you step into that next life in that next realm you'll you'll look out for me and you'll you'll let me know if this is the right situation to come into my life possibly well what is this seven years later we're getting married this summer and you felt you felt like an inner I don't know I just my gut has been so good at telling me about life and I feel because I've lived the right way I'm not saying I'm perfect in any sort of fashion but I've tried and that's more than enough than what God asked for all of us is to try and I try I don't know I just felt like I didn't want to leave any stone unturned so that was the only thing I feel like we never got to talk about and even like her opinion just like you know friends like you know just to meet her and say hi because me and Jordan had never been in that level ever and it was like weird for us to hug even if for like two and a half years so like I said I didn't want to leave anything unturned you live in the present don't think about the future I was I'd rather let you know and you'll let me know if this situation is something and uh I guess you was pushing it to happen because everything aligned up perfectly and now we're getting married so obviously it's the right one I can't imagine how hard it is also to make the decision I think when we're losing people we love we want to hold on to them yeah and so as you said to pull the plug and let go of the person you love that must be like a terrifying decision how did you even make sense of it I didn't I don't know if I did I tried everything I tried every other route than that I would have taken her in any condition it didn't matter if it we needed to change our lives around for her whatever the case may be I would have done anything but I don't think there was a a way she was going to have a meaningful recovery you know I don't think that she was actually going to make it regardless so it's tough when you have to make those really tough decisions and we're not talking about either going to vacation here or there or do you eat this or that for dinner I'm talking about like the true life and death decision you know either you have to be willing to uh have death of your ego or you know you got to have a death of opportunity and I picked the death of my ego for the best of her hardest decision yeah yeah you said that your mom always knew how to make the celebration special yeah the big moments yeah yeah she did what kind of things did she do like my birthdays was one of them and she made them feel so grand and um it was so simple but it was just so much because of the energy she brought to it yeah she she did an amazing job of just making all those moments feel so special and you know now with you know Jordan we try to kind of mimic that energy for a lot of things especially and that's how we approach people's birthdays or like she has a nephew in Lake that we love to celebrate my niece and nephew I love to celebrate their birthdays and and and special moments and stuff like that I'm just uh fortunate now especially winning a championship in New York that I get to be closer to my family in Jersey my niece my nephew my sister so it gets a little easier to do something you know when they're growing up and stuff I see with easy to show up at the Little League baseball game it's easy to uh show up at a dance recital it's easy to do that so um I'm just trying like I said I'm just stepping into her shoes trying to do as much as I can that she would done for us I can relate to what you're saying so my mom used to I remember we didn't have a lot growing up but on my birthday I'd get the like one thing I wanted as a surprise or at Christmas the one thing I wanted and it was it's probably one of my favorite memories with my mom of just like how she'd know exactly what I wanted she'd figure it out she'd find a way to surprise me and I wanted to ask you what what do you think your mom would say to you if she was here right now and seeing you become the champion that you are well I think first she would say you didn't drink more she would be so happy she would just be definitely hugging me up kissing me a ton just saying how proud of she is of me and how awesome this is and I don't know I I just feel like it would have uh it would have been really uh cool to see how she would have reacted at the parade I feel like she would have ran off the float started running with the people be emotional, so I feel like a lot of it would just be crying and being super excited and just enjoying these moments of, I laugh when I say it, but it is funny. And my sister hearing this will laugh when she'll be like, you didn't drink more? Like it's a celebration. Like we got to go even harder. You got to find a way to do more. And I found more happiness with this championship in game one before the game started. I found more happiness than I found in the rest of the series. Really? Why? Because I felt her presence so strongly and I, and I yearned for it so bad. That was probably the best moment. And you would think it would be the moment right after winning, celebrating, screaming and stuff. You would think it would be the right hand tip in by OG. I think it was before game one started in the 10, in the 20 minutes on that court before we had to go back to our, to do the national anthem. I felt such a presence that it was just so obvious that it had to be her. And I've yearned for that moment ever since she passed more than the championship. And when I got that moment, I felt so at peace and I felt, I just kept smiling. Cause it was something I, I feel like we were having our own like dance, but we weren't saying no words. And I just felt the presence. And it was when I said that at the end of game one, it was real. Like I just was having fun. I know it got competitive. You may not see me smiling a lot, but I felt very comfortable. I felt very at peace. And that was one of those moments. And I don't want to diminish the value of winning a championship. I mean, it's the, one of the best feelings ever, but like that's supernatural. That's something that I can't explain the value behind that. Like when you say it's one of the best feelings in the world, there's a value associated. There's no, that's priceless. Like that's so rare. You get one of those moments. It's like her appearing in a dream. I'd wake up and cry after that. And that was one of the moments that I felt very comfortable. And that was special. How did you notice and feel her presence? It was so calming. It just felt like the music felt like the best music ever. Dribbling the basketball felt just so youthful. Like it felt like I had just played basketball for the first time. I fell in love with it again. And her presence was felt. I just, it was, it was cool. The music felt like the best music I ever heard. I felt like Tame Impala and Black Coffee came together. And then it was, it was amazing. You've talked before about this idea of survivor's guilt from that time. How is that changed over time? It's just different. I mean, I feel like there's always survivor's guilt. You know, it's one of those things that if my mom didn't get in, I got it early on. Maybe I would have done better, you know, younger athlete. Maybe I would have, you know, had a better chance and all the family I haven't been able to see. I think more of my survivor's guilt comes from more of the family and my mom not being able to see these moments, the championship, getting engaged. Yeah. Like kids, you know, not having kids now, but like, you know, in the future, having kids, like being there for that process and everything, like, you know, uh, I feel that's more of like the guilt I have. Cause I know these are moments she would really want to experience and it wasn't God's timing. It wasn't my time for her to see that, you know, she got to see my sister have the kids live her life ups and downs. Like she got to see that. And for me, you know, she got to see me at the pinnacle of basketball, which is make the NBA, make all star game, make another one. You know, it was like one of those things she seen me, but that never really defined me as it always defined me as my whole entire life. Like I said, since I was young, I was told to be a basketball prodigy. And as life goes on and experience and experience and experience goes by, I realized it never defined me about who I, who I am. And, uh, I'll leave you with this quote. What I do gets more attention than who I am. And I'm not going to lie to you. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm not who I am, even though who I am is more important than what I do fully agree. And I just, I believe that. And over years of years of being told you're this basketball prodigy, you're really good at basketball. I was like, is that it? Is that all you get from doing this is being told you're good at basketball. What about like, how can many communities have I helped? How many people have I've served? That's your leadership style. You got to live by that too. So it was something that I went through experience and experience got in the NBA, did some of the things I've dreamed of seeing the hardships that come with it. And then when I lost her, it didn't come close to defining me anymore. I realized it didn't mean as much as I thought it did. Yeah. What you just said is the exact reason I started this podcast. I wanted a space that people could come and talk about their purpose, talk about who they were more than what they did and talk about the human behind the high performance and talk about the heart behind the championships and the wins and I actually saw an interview. I was about to go on stage. This is eight years ago before I launched the show, Tom Brady was speaking before me and he was being interviewed and I was backstage waiting to go on stage. And the interviewer just kept, he kept trying to talk about meaningful things. And the interviewer just kept saying, talk about the rings, Tom, talk about the rings. And you could tell that Tom was trying to talk about meaningful things and he just wasn't allowed. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, got it. Like we just want people to be what we think is 2d version of who they are and not letting them be there. So I appreciate you opening up so much because as I'm listening to you, I'm like, this is why we started. This is for you to be able to say that. And I hope it helps a lot of people too because a lot of times, you know, mental health is real. And I also think a lot of times people just want to be heard and they never really feel heard because people are never willing to actually say the real things. They want to come out on podcasts, stuff like that and be cool. But what is quote unquote cool, you know, don't care, relax, chill. Oh yeah. You know, I've gone, Jay, you know what I'm trying to say? I do this. I do that. That's it, man. Like, nah, like we really people and we really have different ways. We got to this point to the story and all these seats have stories and all these seats have a reason why the person is the person. And it just takes a little bit of time just to be able to like, let them open up and explain why they are the way they are. You've talked before about this idea of how you didn't want to go to therapy because you weren't ready to talk and then you'd just be sitting there. Has your view on that changed? Has that helped? I think therapy is great. I just think that for me, therapy wasn't what I needed in the conventional sense. Yeah. Your therapy looks different. Yeah. I got therapy in a different way. I got therapy in someone I really trust, someone I call like a sensei, Arnie Kander. He's the head of magic, of the Orlando Magic health, uh, sports side and their PT, you know, the, the health and, uh, uh, strength and conditioning. He's the head of there. And he's always been like a sensei to me. He was best friends with my mom as well. My dad, they talked all the time. He's always been like a second father to me. I just kind of leaned on him for those really hard hitting questions. Cause I'm able to be open with him. I'm able to tell him any little thing in my life and feel it's safe. And I didn't think I needed the conventional of, getting a therapist in the city in Minnesota, sitting down, doing that when I could just go in my office, call Arnie and allow him to like, hear my thoughts and give me honest feedback and maybe things. And we've had really deep conversations, some really dark, some just saying how I'm doing, like think really good. And he's been, uh, he's been vital for me just in my life because he was doing this before anything, even when she was here, I didn't think therapy, the conventional way was good for me. I didn't think it would be as beneficial as having already someone I trusted that I was willing to really spill my heart out to and understood that my heart was not going to be, the cup wasn't going to be given to someone else for their benefit. It was a true, I'm going to hear you out like a son and I'm going to give you an unbiased opinion and I'm going to give you a monk opinion as well. So I was, uh, I was appreciative. I'm always appreciative for him. I talked to him a lot. Um, he's like a second dad to me and it's, uh, it was one of those things. So I think therapy is great. And I think a lot of people miss the opportunity to really step outside with, with less baggage. I had the opportunity to speak to Kobe Bryant and Kobe would talk about Phil Jackson. And it's like that kind of mentorship, it's actually quite special to sports. I find like athletes, when you find like the right coach, even the way you're speaking about your coaches and PT is like what you've learned over the years. And I think that's, I think that's, I think that's it's like, it's a special relationship. And I think the majority of the world who don't have coaches or people in their life that they look to for guidance, like in other careers, you don't have that. Yes. And that's why I think it becomes, uh, a therapist is a great option because like you said, there's certain people you run into in life that are just wired differently and able to do some special things. They have special talents. That's why we're all the top of our game and they have special talents that utilized in the right way can take you to another level. I feel like Arnie's special talent was relationships and his ability to listen and come back at a different mindset. And he's very, you know, he spent time with the monks. He's been, you know, has the Catholic background, Christian background, Buddhistic background, very like natural based everything. Like the ground is that the soil, like everything's like alive. You got to be very respectful of everything. When I leave, he's the reason when I leave, he's the reason why I'm here. I'm the reason why I'm here. like that like that mindset and i just i'm forever grateful for him what i love about that is you just wouldn't expect it yeah that's surprising like you're being grateful to a hotel room yeah literally and that's and jordan when she was like she was like who when we first like went to ultimately she's like who are you talking to and i was like no you're saying it out loud yeah yeah i say it out loud so you know i thank the room i thank you for allowing me to live in here thank you for blessing this energy and this time and i walk out and close the door let's talk about jordan because you've been mentioning the whole time yeah yeah let's talk about how you met how did you actually over uno no way literally uh in la just you two yes it was me me her and my friend okay chucky okay i beat both of them you didn't let her win one time has she beat you since no comment who made the first move who was like she's gonna say in a way it was me and i was and she knows damn sure it was her she made the first move so obviously it was um um I guess in a way it was mutual you're talking about earlier before when we started this idea of like how you know you don't see relationships last that long always yeah and you guys especially like yeah nba player with a woman that's heavily involved in in hollywood and everything like that doesn't ever seem like a recipe that works what makes it work for you guys how have you found because we wanted to work and our whole relationship was based off of a friendship of two and a half years of no romantic no anything it was just strictly platonic how we're just great friends we vibe with each other we we know that we're here for each other I think you know just for us it's always fun that we we truly do enjoy each other's presence and we do love hanging out with each other with doing nothing you know simple and I think that's what makes a special relationship when you truly um enjoy each other's presence but it's more of a friendship like I I enjoy just hanging out doing nothing we don't even have to say a word to each other but she could be watching tv I could be on my phone playing a game or she could be on her phone playing a game and I'm watching youtube and none of us complain about anything we're just happy to be next to each other so it's pretty cool what's one thing she's taught you and one thing you've taught her she's taught me a lot and I think one of the greatest things she taught me was how good sushi is but I would say from a real aspect of emotional everyday living she's really taught me a lot and she's really taught me a lot and I think one of the greatest things she taught me they don't have to be so aggressive when you hear the word boundaries you think of it it's an aggressive uh block but she makes it seem it's a that you can have healthy boundaries that work for everybody and make you feel good as well I think I'm a patient person I feel like she's helped me understand patience is a good thing as well because sometimes I am very patient and she's very patient so we both could kind of like it so it allows me to like take that competitive edge when she gets impatient be like it's okay just relax I think for me to her I believe she would say just through all the bad that the life throws at you and all the obstacles and the trials and tribulations she always talks about how I bring that youth into an energy into a room where it doesn't seem like things are so bad and just kind of keeping it very cheerful and and and positive and youthful I think that's really what she taught me what she loves is that you know I kind of make her bring that inner child back out even at the age that we are now where it doesn't have to be so serious like we're in target let's go have a lightsaber fight around target like why yeah of course Minnesota it's not New York so we doing stuff like that or putting her in a care and the shopping cart in target and just doing laps around target just stupid kid stuff you would do and you know now that we finally found each other in this world and we found each other at this time we don't have to act older because we met older yeah you know we could still bring that youth back into our lives and just little things like that I love hearing that by the way I mean it sounds beautiful and I'm so happy you guys get married it's huge I feel like her orange bag became its own all-star oh yeah that's the greatest that may be the greatest clothing article ever that may be one of the greatest things in New York history for sure has to be the greatest bag ever made the greatest piece of article of clothing ever I mean it must be up there with like George Washington coming to coming to America establishing a United States it's it's something special it needs to be in a museum here in a museum is she willing to give it up for a museum I mean that's that's like one of the greatest pieces of ever so I mean what Guggenheim has to do it I would feel I feel like Guggenheim has to be the best place I mean Smithsonian is like up there with like dinosaurs and stuff so how did you feel when she couldn't get it in to the game where obviously Trump came you know I knew it was real when my teammates said is she gonna still bring the bag no way teammates were still asking about the bag so did it feel hard that day when she couldn't bring it in like it was just off the day was off you don't see the bag you know you can't really drive into MSG you gotta go to a hotel and then drive in with a bus and you're used to just driving yourself into MSG so it was just a weird day it was different it's crazy that the bag had that much power right the bag was just a weird day it was different it was just a weird day it was the bag the bag has all the power I'm giving all credit to the bag Woods by Jordan bag got it done I'm not gonna lie to you tell me another piece of clothing right article of clothing that you've ever seen have that consistent of a result like I don't know I can't think of anything I don't that's what I'm saying like think about it that Woods by Jordan bag went through the greatest comeback in finals history it went through in in the Eastern Conference finals came back again from 20 plus which is the largest comeback I think yeah it went 13 what 13 well if you count the game we didn't the game we lost did she didn't bring the bag so what that's 15 games in a row one still counting with the bag there because it's next year we go and do it again I'm glad your teammates agree too that's the part that was funny you know how crazy it is to get men to agree on a woman's bag being that lucky like that never happens like JB JC OG Josh Hart everybody was like yo is the bag gonna make it like we gotta find out what's going on with the bag we gotta find a way to do this so where's the bag now is it safe that bag is resting okay Jordan says it to see she's resting she she's she's right now gonna enjoy her off season I I think she's gonna retire I think she's gonna retire on top she's gonna hand a memo and like Michael Jordan just be like I'm done it's over we have to find a new one for next year I know this episode is brought to you by Amazon Health AI we've got to talk about those panicked internet searches you know the ones that I'm talking about when something about your body just doesn't seem right and you're like oh right so you search and search and scroll and scroll and trying to figure out your body by endlessly looking for answers thankfully now there's Amazon Health AI it can connect your symptoms with your medical history and it can even get you care 24 7 so call off the search Amazon Health AI is here healthcare just got less painful how did it feel when you're actually being traded from Minnesota that was a wild moment that was a wild moment especially when I seen everybody that morning so it was a wild thing I would say the honest feeling at the moment was I was shocked that my career in Minnesota ended like that like no warnings no signs no one in NBA knew it was not a murmur a whisper and nothing just in the dark happened and usually you know you think you'll see the ending you'll see the end of the book you know and I didn't know the book was ending on me and I was the one that was part of it I thought I was the author and I became the character and the book so I was kind of shocked that my career was ending I remember being told in my house that I go to my office I see my achievements in Minnesota and I was like that's just how it ends just just snap of the finger you're done bye gotta go and that's why I was it was it was a weird feeling I look back at it now and of course I wanted to win a title there I wanted to be there the rest of my career I made it clearly clearly known that I wanted to do that but I didn't know what maybe I had to go and get traded somewhere else maybe I had to go somewhere so I could show my true value and true worth to the world and um I'm just honored that New York gave me a chance to do that and I'm glad I was able to repay that that that belief with a championship yeah we always hear that phrase like rejection is redirection yeah and I'm like you're living it right now like to go through that moment of feeling like yeah I love what you just said like from going from being the author to being the character but then the character gets to go and you know write a new story and the character the character found the uh he got a sequel to the book and I and if I wasn't going to be the author I wanted to make sure I was the main character and the character was actually driving the story and I thought it was it's a humbling thing it's a back at it now and smile about what happened got the championship I was able to be back home I was able to be with my mom's mom and stuff like that but I would be lying if there's not a bittersweet feeling that it wasn't you know at target center holding that trophy having the parade down first ave over there and uh seeing the Minnesota fans that raised me since I was a kid you know and to see me now as a man um not be able to bring that to them that that does bring me some pain inside maybe one day I don't know I don't think so I don't know what life got for me I always say it's on God's timing I don't we'll know I'll see what he has planned for me tell me about who is who made you feel most welcome at the New York Times next JB and everyone really welcomed me a lot OG was very welcoming I remember he was the first person I got to like, he, he invited me over to his house and I was able to like talk to him. So I was not aware OG didn't talk because my first day with OG, we had a great conversations and we're laughing and talking. And I only realized when we got the training camp, I was actually to be like, wow, he does not talk, but he talks to me a bunch. So they were really welcoming me of me in. And I think what was also great was, you know, earning the respect of them as a man and as a player from afar, I was able to walk in and be myself right away. And then, and I feel like I had to be like, like I was stepping on toes or anything like that, but obviously it's an adjustment. You know, I didn't know everybody there. I hadn't, I only knew Matt Ryan was the only teammate I had in Minnesota. So we had familiarity with each other, but everyone else was new to me, you know, TJ Warren, you know, I've known a while, so I kind of felt familiar with, but I never really got to know Josh Hart for Josh Hart. I never knew, got to know Josh Hart for Josh Hart. I never got to know OG. I never, Jalen and me have a lot, a ton of respect from far away, not actually as teammates, as hanging out. So it was great. It was great to like feel that welcome energy. And it was great to be able to, um, be allowed to affect change right away, especially with the way my season started last year. We have a fun game we made for you. Okay. This is called the courtside stress test. Okay. But you're not a stressed out guy. So it might be called the courtside excitement test. Yeah. Okay. So what you have to do is on a scale of one to 10, you have to tell me how stressed or excited you were to have this person courtside. Okay. Oh, this is a good one. Okay. Good. Mariska Hargitay. I see her and start smiling. So I probably would say like a seven or six. Cause right when you see her, you go, but, uh, it was cool to understand how close everyone is too. Okay. So Adam Sandler, I would say, uh, eight Spike Lee, eight, eight, nine fat Joe. Come on. I was missing fat Joe, but he not fat Joe anymore. He more like skinny Joe. Okay. I see Timmy and Kylie Jenner. It was great to see Timmy. I love seeing Timmy. I get more, I get more like Laffy with Timmy and I see Timmy and Kylie's awesome. So, uh, seven Sydney Sweeney, uh, seven Tina Fey. Tina Fey is funny. I love Tina Fey. We were a game for together. Eight. Okay. Very cool. Uh, Ben Stiller, nine Tracy Morgan, nine Taylor Swift, eight, seven. And it's, I'm saying eight, seven. Cause I mean, you're, you're genuinely excited just to see anyone who comes new to the game. Larry David. Oh yeah. Yeah. It was awesome. Jerry Seinfeld. Eight. Donald Trump. He wasn't courtside. So that was a trick question. Jimmy Fallon. Oh, eight. That's awesome. You did great. All these people are great. I just feel like those nines is like Ben, Ben is such a iconic Knicks fan. And also he's such an amazing guy. So I feel like he's a nine. I feel like Spike Lee's a nine. I'm gonna give him a shout out. Al Pellegrini is a nine. He knows exactly why. The only person that would be a 10 I get excited about is Jordan. I only get excited. I get a 10 for Jordan's the only one who gets a 10. That's beautiful, man. I love that. I'm just happy my dad's there. So I'm, I'm super happy. I would say he's a 10 too. My dad, but in Jordan, I'm blessed to say this. And I had a guy who told a friend of mine who told me this, he's a pastor. And he said, I love how normal it is for you to see your dad. That's something I never got to live. Wow. So I think for me, it's a, I would say I'm more grateful as out of 10 to see my dad at the games. I'm always excited to see him at the games, but I love, and I'm blessed that it's a normal thing. And to see Jordan at my games, it gets me really excited. I mean, that's my best friend. So that's only when I get to 10. What a great answer, man. I'm glad I asked you all of that. Only you would take it to that level. Now I'm getting to know you a little bit today. I'm like, only you would take it to that level. I want to focus the last few questions on mindset when you're in the playoffs, when you're down and out. It felt like every game, you guys were the underdogs. Yeah. Every series. Every game, every series. You guys are the underdogs. You're behind, you're coming back. How do you, like from a pure mental performance perspective, or even, I mean, you're a philosopher, so go there if you want to go there, but how do you find that gear when you're down and you're the underdog? What are you doing? Where are you finding that extra gear? Just competitive nature. Just not wanting to lose, not wanting to let down the city, these fans. I mean it when I said it before, after the game too, like they're putting their nine to fives, life savings. I love that visual you just painted of how you see nothing else apart from 10 guys, the hoop, the court. the light on the court and 10 people and then the court feels like so you know it feels like a massive court to start the game and then as the game it gets it gets shorter and shorter and then all of a sudden I feel like you know it's not that much of runs that we're doing as the game goes along as you get more accustomed you know we say we get comfortable into the game you ease into the game we love seeing you in a Knicks jersey but I know the Dominican jersey means a lot to you yes it does how much would it feel to put on that jersey and take it to the Olympics I would love it that's one of my that's one of my dreams man I just was able to accomplish my dream here in America I won an NBA championship but to be able to take the Dominican team to the Olympics would be one of my greatest honors yeah it would be amazing to see you do that man like I said it's on God's timing but I feel our time is coming I feel that the island deserves to see themselves on that Olympic floor yeah I wanted to ask you also about someone that you knew well people loved him for his music you knew him as a person Mac Miller Mac Miller yeah my brother yes I love him was there anything he said to you anything a lesson a message a conversation you had with him that stayed with you because you noticed so much about these people and carried them in your heart he was really my favorite artist of all time wow of all time and before I even knew him he was my favorite artist I bought the merch I went to Spencer's I went to Hot Topic I had pictures of my mom wearing his merch you know maybe it was something he said if you're asked there's a bunch of things he just taught me how to just live life be yourself people always will appreciate that from you because he always you see when he passed everyone had good things to say about him he was just so genuine in his approach to people and I remember he would show me you know music he had been working on and unreleased songs I still haven't seen the light of day and he would show me I'm like man this is great man this is so good it could be taken as a way of thinking about life but he was only looking at the music he goes man everything sounds good loud but when there's no noise how does it sound? and I think in a way of life the thing for me it's like when you're in front of the cameras and there's a bunch of you know noise and cameras and reporters seeing you do these amazing things like of course everyone wants to say it's awesome it looks great but when there's no cameras there when the noise is low are you willing to still be that person? are you willing to still do those things for people that people say you do even when it's not reported and you get none of the shine or none of the marketing from it or anything like are you really this person that they say or not? maybe he was on to something I'm just thinking about it now sitting with you I'm sitting down thinking about you it could be taken as a life lesson I think that's a great life lesson I think that's the most important one I just got a message from someone that when I first started my career they had a big radio show and they invited me on in London and I was like just starting out and he just messaged me and I was helping him out with something now and he goes dude the reason why I love you is because you still remember how I helped you out back then and I was like yeah man how can I forget for me that was one of the biggest moments of my career and so to me that's what life is made of it's like those memories and moments of where you built with people and they stayed with you when you had nothing and they'll be with you when you have everything and nothing again for sure when I was coming up I remember being on the newspaper where I'm from and Mr. Haley I'll never forget he texted me the other day and he was telling me about how it was awesome to see your journey when you were like growing up covering my dad in his high school when he was playing and then covering my dad again as a coach and now got to cover me as a player coming up under as his son John was just talking about it and he was just saying like after the thing you know he would never expect me to reach back out to him and I was like no just text me and I appreciate you and I just thank him for giving me those chances because at that time like you said it was the biggest moment of my career to be in your city's newspaper to be in that newspaper and Central Jersey I was like man I'm on top of the world man you know so I never forget that Carl I could talk to you for hours honestly like you're my type of human man I appreciate you man that means a lot the depth the thoughtfulness the reflection the amount you've learned from every single person in your life is it's really unbelievable I can't wait for you to write a book one day and go into all of this I'm being serious I'm gonna need a few words from you I'm right there to help you honestly I feel like you have so much to offer so much to give I'm so excited for all the young people that look up to you and admire you and can learn from you in all facets of life but we end every episode of On Purpose with a final five these questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum and we ask it to every guest on the show okay so five questions in one sentence yeah Carl Anthony Towns these are your final five the first question is what is the best advice you've ever heard or received live in the present because the future is not guaranteed second question what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received you can't do this without me that's a great one yeah you said that can you tell us a lot of people name one that's a great answer question number three what's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore I thought money would solve all problems and it would make me the happiest version of myself I got the money didn't save my mom didn't save my family members so what good was it the money never brought the happiness it was the fact that the money bought the vacation to bring the people so if you think about the people was bringing the happiness never the money realize it didn't mean that much and it really never did it's always been about people humans have always came from interaction we've always found wealth in that and somewhere in the line we thought currency was going to change yeah the value of human interaction and it's always going to be the number one thing you could do in your life is listening talking interacting question number three number four this is about overthinking repeat after me and complete the sentence I think I think too much about I think I think too much about the things that I can't handle or I can't control fifth and final question we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow what would it be treat people the way you want to be treated simple if you do that simply we should be just fine yeah I don't know where along the way we started adding all these stipulations and stuff but it was just a simple rule simple law treat people how you would like to be treated we would all be in a better spot amazing I have something I want to gift to you actually a gift oh it's there you want to bring it in throw it throw it we have a special gift from Gatorade hey and I don't think you've seen this yet no I have not guava lemonade that is my favorite it's actually you were telling me guava earlier yes who is it that got you on a guava Jada Pickersmith yeah Auntie Smith Auntie Jada yeah Carl Auntie's Town's Champion appreciate you man congratulations thank you man