Justine Bateman | Club Random with Bill Maher

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Oh, is this like a trial where I've introduced a word and now it's fair game? Well, it is fair game. Okay. Bill, have you ever had an answer to this question? What's the end game? Anybody could tell you. You haven't thought this through. It's cloud cuckoo land. Hello? Hi. Am I on? Are you here? Hi, welcome to my home. I know. How are you doing? Hi, Bill. It's such a pleasure to meet you. Yeah, I guess our paths never did cross, did they? I don't think so. I don't remember it either. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. It could have. I mean, come on. It could have. We're not 20 anymore and we were around and we're in the same town and the business. Yeah. We probably met at a. Probably. Were you stoned back then? No. Never? I wasn't on that train. You never, or you drank a lot or nothing? I did my thing and it never made the tabloid. No, but I mean like. I'm not going to out myself now. I'm saying like I could have met you, you know, and because I drank a lot in those days. Oh, out and about? I'm sure. And was out all the time. I'm sure out and about, yeah. Were you out and about a lot in the. You were? It was so fun. Exactly. It was so fun. You think we're different or the times are different? The times are way different. I mean, we're not the same age. Right. But the times are way different. But wait. I got to thank you publicly. Oh, good. For having been one of the extremely few people who were saying for years now, this is all very fucked up what's going on. And I mean, there was hardly anybody else saying it. About what? I don't know. Starting, you know, I don't know, 2019, 2020 or when there was like nobody else saying, hey, there's something wrong with what's going on. Like, we're not all just going along with this, right? But I just want to thank you. Which things are we talking about? Are we talking about the left or the right? Oh, I mean, all of it. But I mean, mostly. Right, all of it. Well, that is the difference between me and. I'm not going to disparage anybody. People have their own way of doing things. But, like, I never understood this change that happened where, like, to be a comedian in this town anyway. Oh, the comedy. You just have to be, like, sort of preaching only to one side. Yeah. And it's like. A lot of them hate me because I never became a fucking Republican or anything. I just won't go along with the nonsense on the left either. I'm not blind. No, they turned it into a religion. A religion. It is. People have written books like that. You know, like John McWhorter, I think, wrote a book mostly about racism and calling racism on stuff. Obviously, it still exists a lot. But, you know, there is kind of the religion of wokeism and the religion of anti-racism. I mean, you know. Yeah, I wanted to have you here because I think we are simpatico on a lot of political stuff. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. For sure. And it's. Freethinkers are hard to come by. Yeah, because you. I guess one has to be willing to not have a membership card. Correct. to some group. Like. Right. I don't, you know. No, they're purists, which is so annoying since they have so little to be pure about. There's, like, this list of tenets, right? Yes. And even if you subscribe to eight of the ten tenets, if you don't subscribe to all ten, you're fucking out. Right. Like. I know exactly what you're. And so the people that have the membership cards maybe don't even really believe it, but they're terrified, I think, terrified of not being part of this, of being ousted because maybe they've never been in a situation. They're just dumb. where you're just standing on your own. They're dumb. And you're going. I don't care. I don't need to belong to either group. I say this every week, it seems, but show people, they're so talented. I'm not saying that this issue. They are. Their talent takes your breath away. They're not bright, generally. I mean, there are exceptions, but they're just. And they're certainly not politically savvy. What's important to them, as it is with all actors, is to have a speech where you're the hero. So they just want to be like these morally superior people, and yet their moral compass, is as broken as the Republicans. I mean, Garrison Keillor had to go, but they're okay with Hamas rapists. They just are dumb. And then they are. What's so infuriating is that they're dumb. No, we can't be in your club because we're not bright enough. No, our eyes are open. You're just cheap. See if this fits, too. It seemed to me that the DNA of the film business was. I appreciate your sacrifice, too. I'm like junkie because I'm so used to reaching for a joint. Okay. It's okay. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what makes me nauseous, but anyway, I appreciate it. Well, we don't do that. We don't want you nauseous. But please, like, drink a lot of tequila then or something. I can take care of my own. Okay. I can moderate my own high, but thank you. Okay. The DNA of the film. The DNA of the film business is we'll make a film about whatever we feel like making a film about. Everybody can fuck off, right? That's the DNA of the film business. And then there's this financial structure component, too. And these two things kept everything going. And they also were able to look around at society and see what was missing. Is it happiness? Is it conflict? Is it whatever? And they supplied it. When social media came on the scene. The 1,000 loudest people on social media suddenly had so much influence, I think, partly because the media got really lazy and started quoting John123 on Facebook or whatever. Who the fuck is this guy? And they just started just printing these. Twitter says, Twitter, three guys. That's what I mean. And just looking at what's trending and then just doing that. Doing that and then having these little bits of. And I think the business got scared, like a corporation, got scared that people were going to. I mean, us, the whole business, that people were going to hate them, that people were going to boycott them, people were this. And they started capitulating their decision-making to what would appeal to these 1,000 loudest people. And that has been. And then there's other reasons why the business has gone off. But that's one of them. And it's. You can't run a creative business when you're catering to people like this. And people keep saying the business is off a cliff. And yet, I mean, in the last five, was it five years that we've all just turned to streaming, there's, like, so much more content than there was when we were on sitcoms, you know? But that's a content factory. That's not the film business. I think. It's a different business. You know, I was on an NBC sitcom in 19. 1985. Did you know that? Yeah. Sarah, do you remember Sarah? It was. It must have been. It was Gary Goldberg's other show. Yes. Yeah, who created Family Ties. Yes, I know. I'm just saying that. I mean, for the viewers, I don't know if they know who he is. Well, he was a very big TV producer. Yeah. I mean, Family Ties was as big as it. Yeah. But we were sandwiched in between your show and Cosby, I think. Oh, yeah. For that year. Yeah, yeah. So, we actually have. - A link. - See? must see tv did you ever see it that was that that show i'm sure i'm i'm sure i might i didn't watch much tv back then because come on man you were doing something no not sarah with gina davis and brunson now i'm gonna go watch all of it alfre woodard what a cast alfre woodard is like so talented yeah she was an oscar nominee at when we were doing the sitcom really oh yeah we're still awesome still good friends so you're gonna be at the nbc 100th anniversary i assume really are they having such a thing yeah oh i didn't hear about it when is that this year yeah i think in december so ah well maybe i will i think they're gonna focus on the last 20 years and then do like clips of all the other years like you mean there's not gonna be a tribute to one season uh shows or what do you mean there's not gonna be a tribute to one season uh shows or what do you mean about failed pilots just the pilot and that'd be great remember that days when i mean pilot season oh i know it was fantastic it was fantastic it was nerve-wracking because it was a lot of work for and it was a lot of work and hope and like you know right you wanted to get a pilot it was like exciting you wanted to get a pilot which was if people are too young or don't remember or never knew i guess it's our business but the the way they made television was like in the spring i guess but the way they made television was like in the spring i guess yeah the beginning of the year like one of the only times a year they actually work they would make a bunch of shitty shows but only the first episode it was called the pilot and then like 50 of them yes they're only going to pick up 20 right they well even i don't know what those numbers are too big but like they would they would probably make a dozen or so and they would pick up three or four years i mean they needed something they were they also canceled shows all the time you know it was survival of the fittest i mean it was great for the viewer i guess you know yeah i mean every year i would get the fall preview issue of tv guide do you remember that exciting you know it was very exciting it was the thick very thick september you know it was like very thick with with potential and the new shows what was gonna the schedule what was against the what we would get what we against we were against dynasty listen folks paying five bucks for a show and then you're like oh my god i'm not going to do that you're like oh my god i'm not going to do that you know i'm not going to do that i mean you're like oh my god i'm not going to do that you know you're like oh my god i'm not going to do that you know you're like oh my god i'm not going to do that you're like oh my god i'm not going to do that just to flex someone else's logo isn't fashion that's paying a company for the privilege of being their billboard most guys just want classic high quality clothes that look great and last longer than a few washes that's why quince makes getting dressed so easy quince makes high quality everyday staples using real materials like organic cotton merino wool and 100 mongolian cashmere the cashmere sweaters start at just 60 bucks when the team here got their hands on a few they were shocked by the quality they also have classic wool coats and down jackets for fall all priced 50 to 80 percent less than luxury brands because they cut out the middleman markup find your next fall favorites at quince download the quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com get free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns now available in canada and the uk too and when quince asks you where you heard about them tell them it was club random it's the best way to support this show i don't know who we were against because we were always like number number two or number one you know cosby was number one and we would be number two so i didn't really it didn't really matter who was opposite right your show was a giant hit mine was positioned to be one but then gary goldberg had a a shoving match at a taping with the head of the network brandon tardikov did he really yeah that's i didn't know i didn't see it but nobody denies it and i didn't know that yeah isn't that funny but brandon you know uh when family ties started it was uh the ratings weren't that high and but nbc was like number three of three and so it they it was brandon tarkov and nothing to lose so he was like let's roll with it you don't miss any of that do you know what i mean i mean i feel like i had the fullness of it right i mean and it was a lot better to be famous back then than to be famous now so i'm glad i got the fame experience experience right yeah i mean i would not want to be famous now it just seems like such a drag but not like not like that you couldn't go to disneyland you couldn't go to the airport i mean you couldn't go anywhere right with i mean it wasn't like brad pitt level of fame but it was yeah i wrote i wrote a lot of my book about it well it would be like it's if they're parked outside your driveway or something or want to follow you to do mundane chores that is the level of fame where it's not worth it i think yeah you know um not that i do mundane chores you'll never catch me doing them but maybe they follow they want to follow your assistant so they can be like they can be like belmar i'd still like the right to do mundane chores and i do have the right yeah you know i mean i i do not worry about someone following me into target if i knew where a target was or what it looked like inside which i don't you sound like um hong no what's his name uh uh sorry nvidia what's his name nvidia uh the ceo of nvidia oh jason yeah he's like what did he say he said nobody's nobody he goes nobody's gonna know their their he goes they're he was talking about why ai is gonna be so great and he says well you you don't need to know your address your phone number this is i don't i don't know my address i don't know my phone number i don't know this i don't know that and i was like dude you never pay a bill you have a staff right like you never need to know your address you never need to deal to call you a utility company you're the head of this tech company man the people at your company are not gonna let your shit glitch up although i've seen that actually happen to the head of apple trying to you know when he was trying to like present something new and it fucked up but us regular folks the stuff is always glitchy it works in theory in theory i think a lot of programmers don't use their own and they're always locking you out and like the idea that it's perfect so i don't have to remember my number my i don't remember anything because the machine is perfect the machine is so far from perfect i know i know you're anti-ai as i am yeah i am i mean and bill gates is this week you know going around basically with his hair on fire saying you know come on guys and trump had a big meeting yesterday and just agreed that well these are great guys and why would they ever do the wrong thing and uh the smartest of them are concerned i mean musk said it years ago he was very concerned about this uh and a modi i think is a good guy who's doesn't know how to do it he's a good guy and he's a good guy and he's a good guy and he's a good guy and he's a good guy and he's a good guy and he's a good guy and he's a good guy and he's a good guy and he doesn't want this to get out of hand even sam altman uh not exactly a charmer but i think he's smart enough to get it that like yeah no matter how rich i am it's not great if the world is gone and the people are dead or whatever you know shit could happen so i think it's not like a number of them aren't onto it and then there's like the huangs and the uh zuckerbergs who are like everybody's worried about nothing well bill gates really you don't take his word you think he's worried about nothing is he that dumb bill gates i mean i don't think you have to you know run a tech company to see the issues i mean first of all you don't but they know better than we do no but they know they have more money than we do but they don't know oh seriously you think you know as much about tech as jason huang or whatever i'm probably saying his name wrong or altman or elon musk you don't you know nothing i know nothing they know more they don't the problem is they don't know everything about it which is what's scary but they don't know everything about it but they know way more than we do that's why they're where they're doing what they're doing and you know why there's any hope of reigning this in is that somebody kind of gets uh you know behind it on the knowledge curve because where it's going now is what's so scary is the thing is out there making its own decisions ordering itself around that's because of the way it's been coded like here's my problem with it well the technology yeah technology is technology like money it's well not quite like money like money is very neutral but who's controlling the money is going to be the issue who's controlling this tech and from the podcast that's the point nobody itself listen the pod from the podcast tours that these guys do non-stop to any interview they've ever done it sounds like the most irresponsible group of people who have ever been in charge of something big in the united states and that's what the problem is i don't know ever and they all seem to be just money worshipers i have never heard them say anything that sounds like they and and i'm not talking about every single ceo but i feel i feel very few of them concerned with any of the ramifications of having of having ai they are they are please that's just not fair okay they're in the press it's in the news they're they are concerned there was a whistleblower about a month ago and usually when there's a whistleblower the reaction of corporations is this guy's full of shit blah blah blah that was not the reaction the next day, the three that I just mentioned came out and said, he's not wrong. We are taking this seriously. Now, maybe that's just lip service, but it's still more than what they, a lot of other people in this, the tobacco companies never did that. They never said, oh yeah, you know what, you're right. They were forced, they were sued. These guys, again, they're not stupid people. They, they, Musk said it 10 years ago. He was like, this could be an extinction event. So let's exclude Musk. I don't see. And Imoti and Altman. They're not, I'm not saying they're doing. Altman is a, seems like a psychopath. He, I could not agree more. They're all on the spectrum themselves. I don't think they're concerned with, if they were, they'd do something about it, but they're not going to do something about it because they're in this to make a lot of money, as much money as they can possibly make. Of course. And that is driving all their decisions. The things that are holding them back is yes, money is very attractive. They're all richer than. Attractive. They're not stupid that they, they don't know that they already have more money than they could ever deal. No, the businesses are, have, need so much money to run. Yeah, that's true too. It's unsustainable. And also, but the bigger one is that they don't want to lose to China. That's in their mind. Well, then maybe they don't hire so many people who have handlers in China. I mean, how do you. Well, yeah. I mean, I don't know. It isn't just like this. Well, Chinese Americans are loyal mostly to America. Okay. Because they're Asian. But I mean, if, well, yeah, I'm not talking about. Yeah. I'm talking about. Yeah. I'm talking about, like, people who are still reporting to China. I mean, I'm not talking about their morphology. I mean, I'm talking about, like. No, that happens too. Where do they have their. Who do they belong to? China ain't playing. China. No. I mean, China is, you know, the snake, the giant boa constrictor that's wrapping itself around you. And Trump thinks, oh, this is cuddly. But it's really sizing you up to eat you. I mean, they're definitely. Not definitely. But they have a good chance of winning this race. And that's what's freaking people out, is they don't want China to have the upper hand. Because, obviously, this has great ramifications. Whoever wins AI wins a sort of war that could be a war of conquest. Certainly, Taiwan is on their mind. Okay. I just. When we're talking about AI and who's going to win the race, Taiwan is very much on their minds. Because Taiwan is where they make the chips. If we don't have the chips from Taiwan. If we don't have the chips from Taiwan, we don't have any computers, let alone these giant data things they're building. I just think it's being done. I think it's a bit sloppy. It's very sloppy. It's crazy. It's a little bit of, like. It reminds me of gain-of-function. Totally. It's like, okay, wait, you're doing this so that you can develop a vaccine for this, but then, but whoops, this shit gets out before you've developed a vaccine. You're exactly right. And you have fucked up the world. It's a techno. You're exactly. It's a technical version of gain-of-function. And this is what is going to happen. Yeah. They are going to have this. This tech is going to get enmeshed in the foundation of too many institutions. I just got. I got an email today from my bank. This is a general email to everybody right at the bank, not to me specifically, saying, you know, is AI. You know, it's this folksy kind of email. That you get, right? Like, you know, AI is becoming more and more popular and all this. And just, we just want to remind you when you're using agentic AI, don't give usernames and passwords because that's just like giving it to a stranger and you're responsible for anything that occurs when this system has your. And it's like, oh my God. Doesn't it have it anyway? Doesn't it have it already or else it wouldn't be in your thing? Of course it has your, all that shit. It's in your phone. It knows everything in your phone. That the AI models have all your passwords and logins. I'm talking out of my ass because I don't have it in my phone because I don't want it in my phone. I got a separate phone just for AI and never really used it because I don't need it. I mean. Oh, yeah. I'm the same. Like, I don't. I can't think of anything I would ever want it for. No, I absolutely can. In fact, I was playing basketball about a year ago and. Got what they call a mallet finger. Still hasn't really healed. But, you know, when you rebound and the ball hits that middle finger. So it's like. It doesn't usually happen, but it's like. And somebody looked it up right on their phone. Right AI. What is this? How do you deal with it? Yes, it can be valuable. It can be valuable from. It's already being very valuable in a lot of things, including medically. It's coming up with things already. You know, ways to. Andrew Huberman was just telling me last week. Think about this. That it can. If you have a certain type of cancer, it can very quickly go through all the things that have ever been tried, all the medications, all the, you know, pasta, and very quickly get you to the absolute best response you can make. That's very valuable. Nobody is saying. Nobody sane is saying AI isn't also a marvel. You're not saying that, right? I'm not saying it's a marvel. I think it's. More of a pilot trick. You don't think coming up with the best way to cure it. Did it come up with it? I don't. It's just a predictive algorithm. It can search. Yeah, it can search. Okay, but that can be very valuable. Search has definitely been valuable to society. Yeah. So, can we admit. Why deny that? Why deny that there's something awesome about AI? We're just saying we think this. I just. You don't see it. It's not for me. It's not for me in any form. Well, if you get cancer, you probably will change your mind. I don't think so. People have gotten cancer in the past and have, like. Died. Recovered. And men recovered. Apparently, people will take Medicare advice from anybody. Some guy you vaguely remember from a 90s sitcom, a retired athlete wearing a headset. Basically, anyone with a headshot and a teleprompter. Chapter takes a different approach, helping people compare Medicare options without simply steering them. Toward whatever pays the most. They look across every available plan based on what actually matters to you. Your prescriptions, your providers, and your needs. They're honest, and they don't get paid more for pushing one plan over another. Novel concept for this industry. If you're already on the right plan, they'll tell you flat out. If not, they'll help you find one that fits. But folks who found a new plan with Chapter saved an average of $1,100 on healthcare. It takes about 20 minutes, and it's completely free. No pressure. You don't need to just trust any random celebrity or even me. Find out for yourself and call Chapter today at 984-217-3643. That's 984-217-3643. That's 984-217-3643. That's 984-217-3643. But also mostly died. But I don't think we have data that shows that because AI exists now, people don't die from cancer. I think we do. I think that's exactly-- Oh, they don't die anymore at all. That's interesting. Not as quickly, that we are moving the curve on that. How could it not be? I don't know. Just think about that. Like, if this thing is that-- Because it searches faster. Yes, because it searches faster. And they've already done math problems that people couldn't do for centuries. And it does it. You know? I mean, 10 minutes or something. Honestly, I think that one really sucked. These guys-- these guys and gals who are mathematicians, who are-- this is their life's work to discover this sort of thing. And it goes, bippity bop, just does it. It's like, did you need to? I mean, now their whole-- I think it's depressing for them. This is why I always think I'm the only reasonable person in America, because even when I talk to somebody like you, I think it's very reasonable, and I can't get you to, like, sort of agree on the half of this equation, which I think is undeniable, that there is marvelous things about AI. It makes me always go, why can't people just, like, you know-- All agree with you? --come right-- no, come right down in the middle of what's obvious. You know? I don't know. Maybe because I have a computer science degree, and I know engineering-- the lack of engineering ethics that's in programming and-- But ethics isn't efficacy. Efficacy we're talking about. What is the actual efficacy of having AI in our future medical challenges? Well, hopefully I'll never need to find out. Hopefully. Yeah. But, I mean, you're younger than me, I'm sure, by quite a bit. But I'll tell you what's ahead is not all good things. Yeah. You know? I mean, the human body, the flesh, is what it is. And it is corrupted as we go on. You look great, by the way. Thanks. I don't know what you do for it, but I know you've spoken about plastic surgery, and you're so right in that you don't need-- Well, now, why can't you come down in the middle of that? Well, I do. I will come on that middle of it and say, but if you like it, go ahead. And also, sometimes it does work. And that's where I am with AI. Sometimes it does work. If-- if-- if it floats your boat, go for it. It's just not for me. No, I'm just-- I'm admitting that it's doing some good things. Well, why would I be admitting? Not for you. for life for men I don't know I I haven't seen that myself right and you're probably right there's a lot of things I haven't seen yeah look I mean I'm 70 that's a scary number when when you start to have a seven isn't that the lucky number well yeah yeah but come on come on I mean but I would say we turn when you turn if you had if you're lucky enough to turn 77 on the 7th of July right in 1927 Wow that won't that be like you think you've jackpot all those sevens do you really believe sevens have a power many societies do be well could be I don't know I'm gonna come down on the middle of that I'm gonna come down on the middle of that a three and a half yeah no you know when I was younger I did have a real phase right where I put a lot of stock in numbers and I mean I was 19 you know I'm not saying I didn't work I don't did you win the lottery no it wasn't like that I just was going through the kind of angst you go through at that age and I think I was just searching I was I was over Catholicism which is how I was it like auspices were you like oh I don't know I don't know it was like oh I see three I see three birds and that means no it was like like this happened on this date so it's significant and then this other you know oh good three and four add up to seven and so like I'm gonna get her back you know you know it's like bullshit about like encouraging though right well it was like grasping at some straw it's for my very kind of like frustrating and you know kind of desperate life I was never meant to be like young I was always meant to be an adult I was not good as a young person you know shy you know couldn't talk to girls when I was desperately wanting to that kind of thing you know and you know just the numbers gave you comfort they it was it was the successor to Catholicism and equally stupid I you know looking back that's how I think of it but who knows I again it's true every for some reason all societies sort of did land on seven yeah that's just like independently like they just also has another interesting thing to me I know this will seem like a left turn how did we wind up with salt and pepper being the two spices they go on the table I don't know but I but I bet you a historian would be able to tell you like I'm gonna try and find that out yeah maybe you could put you know who could tell you chat GPT I was just gonna say it'll make up something fantastic you know I couldn't agree more with that I would agree more you know I've done a lot of editorials like fucking really cutting the balls off of AI so yeah I'm your friend here you know and that's one of the points I've made many times yeah we if it really was mr. Spock remember mr. Spock from the original Star Trek oh yeah you know like the completely on the neck what oh that's how he used to take people down he just pinched oh yeah that's right but I mean his whole character was as a Vulcan he did not have the human flaw of thinking of things emotionally he always just gave you the exact right correct honest answer and when it was politically incorrect they did not even understand why yes captain oh this has been trained on everything we've ever said online so there's no fucking way it cannot be politically 10 I know they don't like to say it it is woke because look what this I know been trained but it is I mean it only trained it on the Encyclopedia Britannica or something like this I don't think or meet the press from you know this the 60s and 70s or something it'd be different I don't think there should even be an option for asking its opinion it's an opinion mm-hmm someone once really pissed me off it wasn't their fault they asked it what was my best special and I just did not like the answer a I gave and it wasn't the right answer I shouldn't have an opinion it grabs it's not an opinion it is it's a nice opinion an AI doesn't deserve one but it yeah it doesn't have one it does it what it renders one it'll give you one but it'll give you an answer but it's it's not anything but people believe it is it's well because people like to personify things they like to think that their animals are you know loving them when they lick them and they're probably just getting salt off your skin because they need it for their system they think they think plants do better when you talk to them when really the reason is sucking your car you're expelling car you're expelling around them what they breathe in yeah so that's it it's not because you're telling them they're beautiful you know why fruit tastes good is because that tree is hoping that you're gonna swallow that pit and then poop it out a mile away and plant more seeds of them of themselves that's so interesting and funny so strikes me as true it's thinking you're gonna write it wants you to eat that and if you're a caveman you don't bother like throwing it you just eat it and eat the pit or if you're a strawberry or something or you know the seeds are gonna see the seeds some pits would just make you choke to death and die so those trees are not very bright I mean some pit some pits are way too big well then you're gonna you're gonna take it you're gonna eat it you're gonna drop the pit somewhere else maybe just that maybe don't eat it oh I see right you throw it on the ground but the other the other right it doesn't have to be in poop right yeah but it could be you just want to have something eat away the flesh the sweet part so that you have the yeah I'm gonna yeah I'm gonna tease you into spreading my right seeds that's basically it I mean I just love nature what that's true it's there's a there's there's motive to a lot of things I could never live in a city you know with a high-rise and concrete all around it's just so unnatural I know yeah some for some people it's the most natural thing in the world we all know lots of New Yorkers and yeah that's not to be here who live in the Wilshire corridor you know the you know the I know right a bunch of high-rises like it's great I have a balcony it's like you can have a backyard and there's plenty of we're so could he why this isn't why would you rather have a balcony like Tokyo or New York City we're not in Hong Kong you know where there's like 17th century Amsterdam where you have to build vertically because we're we have lots of room here there's plenty you know I mean whenever you fly over the country what do you mostly see down there oh my god that thing that thing of land well some of it's a lot of its farms I'm always fascinated with farms now with Vegas that somebody went I mean you've driven to Vegas right and you've seen all the land around Vegas if somebody well somebody went I'm gonna put a city we're not right here now I gotta tell me more oh I am going to okay tell me more you haven't seen Godfather 2 yes okay it's well Bugsy Siegel yes let me do the scene for you it's Hyman Roth member played by it was really Meyer Lansky played by who's the great acting coach Lee Strasberg mm-hmm was out Pacino's acting coach so now he's and he's like Al Pacino Michael Corleone you know he comes in there they're supposed to have this deal and he's like you know who who killed the Rosado brothers and Hyman Roth says you know there was this kid I grew up with did our first work together worked away out of the ghetto things were good ran molasses into Canada during the Depression made a fortune your father too as much as anyone I trusted him and loved him later on he had an idea to invent a city that was a desert stopover for GIs on their way to the West Coast this is a man of guts a man of vision and the city he invented was Las Vegas somebody put a bullet in his eye when I heard about it I knew Moe headstrong saying stupid things I didn't ask who gave the order that is the business we have chosen Bugsy Siegel invented Las Vegas not somebody okay but I'm saying to you most people don't put something in the middle of nothing I mean same thing is starting the United States of America there was a desert stopover for GI okay but there was already something what oh you say there was something actually there was a desert stopover for GIs on their way to the West Coast that's why I did that whole speech that because there was something there already yes okay then the something there already I'm impressed with he just had the vision the That because this is Nevada and gambling is legal, but no one is taking advantage of this. It's very similar to me, Hugh Hefner. You know, nobody really had the idea. Naked women. Guys looking at naked women. At least not in one magazine. I mean, out of the pinup, right? It seems like an obvious one. It seems. Doesn't it? I know, but the morals of the time. I mean, it was so scandalous to do something like that. It was scandalous. I mean, when you look at those Playboys from the '50s, they're showing less than they to show in a perfume ad in Vanity Fair today. - Yeah, well, that's different now. I mean, with OnlyFans and the whole, everything's just gone. - So October hits and mornings turn against you. It's 7:00 a.m., it's pitch black, and your body wants to know who authorized this. People try all kinds of morning rituals, but you can't fake actual energy. That's where AG1 comes in. It won't fix your sleep or get the sun up any earlier, but it gives your body what it needs so the dark mornings don't take you out before noon. A few of my team swear by this stuff. 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I mean, I don't know how I could ever-- - I know, I'm not saying you should. I'm just saying you could. - Oh, well. - That's the world you live in. - Oh, well. I'll have to leave that money on the table. - Yes. - Oh, well. - You really should, yeah. Because you're a director now. - Yeah. - That's so much better than an actor, isn't it? - Writing and directing. - Once you get on the other side, you're like, you think, "Oh, wow. "I was kind of a schlub when I was doing the act. "Like, I thought I was big stuff, "but I wasn't making any of the decisions." - Oh, you're really not. You're not. - You're not important. - Well, you-- - You think you are. - You are. - You are, but you don't get-- - You're replaceable. - But you don't get to make any decisions. - And you're replaceable in a way that the creator isn't. - You're replaceable. If they can get somebody else of the same value off the list. - They replaced Valerie Harper when her name was the title of the show. - I know. That was nuts, right? - That's fucking baller. - Wait, I'll take you further back. I'll take you-- - That's badass. - Let me take you further back. Bewitched. - Bewitched, yeah. - They switched out-- - Darren. - The husband. - Yeah. - And didn't say shit about it. - But it wasn't the titular character. - You're right, you're right. - If the show was called Valerie and they replaced Valerie. - But I remember as a child watching that. - That is just ballsy. - You're right, it's like Archie Bunker's Place and Archie Bunker's Out. - Right, right. It was now with the Hogan family. - Yeah, it was the Hogan family. - Roseanne. They did it with Roseanne recently. - They did it too and made it the Conners. - Yeah. - So we'll use your last name instead. - It's just, I'm telling you, it's just, it's just kinda gangster the way this town will do that and let you know exactly what your importance is. - Or you could be in it and then you wind up not in the final cut. - I mean, I always say this about show business. It's the most full of shit place in the world. It's also sometimes the least full of shit. Like, they will tell you exactly what your worth is. - I've had such great experiences with it. I tell you, the only time I've had bad experiences is with people who aren't, I don't really consider anything in the business anyway. Like there was one, like sometimes a financier or sometimes a, you know, like a new distributor who's really not in the business. And that's the only time in all of my years in the business. But I mean, I don't know, I think the business is just not happening anymore. - Well, it's funny that we're finally begging for some socialism because, and even, and Trump is, yeah, boy, he's-- - I got to tell you, I think that's really big of him, considering how he's been talked about by-- - You're talking about giving tax breaks to, yeah. - Doing, well, it's the national tax credit, yeah. - It's our industry, and it is, to your earlier point, it is dying out here, but I always used to brag about our business and California supporting it in the sense that, you know, the conservatives would always talk about how shitty we are here in Hollywood, but you know what, farmers are the ones getting the welfare. - Or the car companies, or whatever. - The socialism that you hate so much, and I don't like socialism either, but socialism is taking place anywhere but Hollywood. We make our own way, we make a product, the world likes movies, and they do very well. Now, this is before COVID and shutting the movie theaters down and streaming and a lot of other challenges, but movies are back, movies did very well this year. People, I always said it, people like a thing they can do on a date where you don't have to talk and that is a movie. - True, but how much better would we be doing if you weren't sitting down to some lesson every time you went to the movie theater and also sitting down to a piece of content which is made to be second screen, your phone being the first screen while you're scrolling through Instagram or Twitter or something, and then you, they have to make sure that if you glance away for 15 minutes and come back, you haven't, you don't feel like you've missed anything. - Right. If you can do that, then that's 15 minutes I should have cut out of my film. If you look away and come back and nothing's moved forward, then that was cuttable. - I couldn't agree more. I did a whole thing one year about, it was the year of "Nomadland" and we had the Debbie Downer Awards, and just like-- - You did. - Sponsored by razor blades and rope. Just all these, that make the Hollywood crowd feel good about themselves. Oh, she's homeless. And shitting in a bucket. Oh, good, and we're good people because we feel for her. It's like, I'm sure it was a great movie and an important film, but it's been this entire century, I would say now, getting worse all the time where they don't care about quality. They care about what political point of view you are signaling with your work. - Which is not mutually exclusive, but they've made it so that it is. - Yeah, oh, totally. And film festivals have done this, too, where they'll take a film that is where the filmmaker is a one-legged albino from Alaska with two gay mommies and that checks those boxes, but the film's not very good. - Now, that's the lead, is that? - And the lead. So, you know, they say, well, look, I just feel like if you're not gonna have quality be your bar, then what are you doing? You're not helping anybody. You're not helping the audience, you're not helping the filmmaker by just letting films in that check boxes and you think you're helping people and teaching people and all this, but it can be, and that's also not mutually exclusive. You can have something that teaches people something, but make it excellent and make it entertaining. And we've had that for years. There's room for that in the film selection each year, but it can't be completely that. Either super violent films or, like, teachable moments where you're jamming things down people's throats and nothing else. That's not, that's not how you stay in business. - Well, they used to know how to make a movie about something and also make it entertaining, like "China Syndrome" or, you know. - Absolutely, there's so many of 'em. - They just wanna preach now. The Oscars used to be a show that was saying, look at us, these are our products this year and look at how good we are at filmmakers, and now, the show is all about, look at what good people we are. You know, and it's just, whoever wins the award is always gonna be the person who played a part that was about a cause. It's not about the performance. It's about, you know, well, you played a guy with AIDS, you know, voting's over. And it's, you know, it's important. Hollywood does a great job at bringing issues to the public's attention that do need, attention that I give them all the credit in the world. - But it still has to be good. - Right, and when it peaks over into lecturing, I just don't need it, I don't want it, and it's not your place to do it, and it's boring. You're boring me. - And I think this relationship with the audience has been really crushed. - Who? - That filmmakers, the studios, filmmakers, streamers, whatever, their relationship with the audience has been really fucked up because, for two reasons. What you were just saying, you know, putting out these didactic films. - Right, didactic, didactic. - And sequel after sequel after sequel after sequel. - Right, it's either-- - And reboot, and also putting films in theaters, training them to just watch it online, where it's just like sort of this online supermarket, you know, video supermarket. Not leaving films in theaters long enough. I mean, when you said earlier, like, there's been a lot of success in, you know, success in Hollywood in the years so far. We're talking about box office. We're not talking about Netflix, ratings right you're talking about box office and yet they're like sort of allergic to leaving things in the box office long enough to even make any money i don't know there's so there's so many reasons why it's for me like how much you're going to leave in the theater but the bigger point is so true the movies are either mindless or trying to mind shape you know yeah they're either trying to shape your mind with the movie and look i'm all for being stimulated and i'm all for making me think about things but i like one that leaves the question open yeah not just don't tell me who to hate you know stop telling me who to hate i say the same thing about music you know these people who think they need to like make the concert about whatever their stripe is you know i mean as if everything's a fundraiser everything is exactly i mean i'm not for. what mclemore was doing and i'm also not i mean i think his message is horrible bruce springsteen i agree more with the message you know is trump a corrupt in that president yes uh i said that more than anybody still say it every week um i don't need to hear it in a concert don't open the concert by telling me who i am supposed to hate yeah i can handle that on my own yeah you are there for escape some moron i said that on my show and some moron wrote the next week um bill maher's such a hypocrite because he's saying celebrities shouldn't comment on politics but he does yeah that's all i do that's your job it's my job it's not my that's your job exactly it's thank you yes exactly that's all i do i don't know did he think that you were like you just starred in like a big blockbuster film exactly and now you're commenting now you're you're switching gears and you're commenting on politics i mean you does he not know you how long you've been doing this so stupid i'm telling you everybody is stupid they get mad at me for saying that people some people how could maybe you say but it's true what am i i'm caught between a rock and a hard place if i don't say it i'm lying which i'm not going to do and if i say it i'm mean because oh don't tell people they're stupid okay what should i how should i couch it you're anti-bright you're giving me dumb maybe it's maybe it's something like george carlin remember that joke he had about drivers and he said do you ever notice on the road everyone's driving slower than you is a fucking idiot and everyone's driving faster than you is a maniac and maybe that's maybe that's how we gauge intelligence too i don't know he was amazing what's been like i'm like i said i'm so grateful that you do this and have been doing this for so long and and so consistently and how how are you how are you feeling about things how are you how are you how are you feeling about where things are going well my life is different from what i feel about the country and i very often i'm busting people on at least not recognizing the cognitive dissonance between the country and your life i've said this before people come up to me often at restaurants nice restaurants where i'm like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry rich people go places where you go you hollywood phony and you know they say some version of or very often exactly say bill what are we going to do and i know what they mean they mean trump is so awful what are we going to do and i always say go back to the table and finish your thousand dollar dinner for three people you fucking phony because like your life is great your life has not been actually affected by donald trump at all that's not to say donald trump is not a threat in the many ways he has always been but is way less so now he's a lame duck now um but just just recognize the reality of that your life didn't end i mean i was more alarmed about donald trump 10 years ago than i was now he hadn't been president yet and i already was recognizing the fact that he doesn't concede elections i was the first one to 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and eligibility requirements apply event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors calci products are not available in all jurisdictions prices values and available markets may differ from those mentioned for more information see calci.com regulatory that this guy does not recognize losing elections so much so that he ran again there's only two outcomes with him either we win or you cheated and that cannot stand i said it to his vice president on my show i said this shit has to stop like he's going to do anything about it of course then he has his own bullshit but so that's where i am um i recognize the threat to the country from the right and from the left from the people who want communism and think the heroes in the middle east are hamas yes i worry about the people who want communism and think the heroes in the middle east are hamas i worry about them just as much uh but my life's fucking awesome good and i'm not going to pretend it's not uh or feel guilty that it is right because there's no reason i should yeah uh you know i recognize i have had some advantages other people didn't um some on the left would always like go immediately to race yes that's part of it uh in 1980 when i was doing comedy club my second year in comedy could i have gotten a job at the uh you know philadelphia comedy club uh because i was white and some other comic was black that possible and you know but like that kind of shit first of all mostly straightened itself out i think even then they were probably hiring the funnier one but yes that could have happened okay are we going to obsess on that life is a it's a complex mixture of advantages and disadvantages i've had my i think a much more significant advantage i had in my life was a stable family i grew up in an era where mom and dad stayed together i never worried that they didn't love each other uh i didn't think they were going to split the family apart kids today don't have that mostly families are broken and it affects the kids yeah i didn't have drugs in high school thank god i had them in college but that's the appropriate time to be introduced to them so i had a stability that is much more uh an effect of my life than race stuff even though it is an advantage to be white if you were born in 1956 you know really people can take it up with god i mean you got dropped into this bag what are you supposed to do you made the best of the bag you were dropped into exactly and that's it end of story and what are you supposed to do and endured lots of pain in my own life what are you supposed to do yeah no this is what you were dealt you were dealt with you were dealt with you were dealt with yeah and this is the track you were put on yeah and you did well yeah and you i mean not did well you did well but you also you were faithful to your gift you were you didn't self-sabotage you fucking made it happen you know i got the mark twain award this year right man okay come on that's this is that's incredible that's for recognize i mean they don't always like stick to mark twain but this year you know people did make the point and it's true mark twain was a guy who like did never pulled a punch talked about both sides you know i mean it was not i'm not saying this in a braggy way just like in a absolute what the guy was kind of way it was a more appropriate this year than a lot of years when people were brilliant comedians but weren't sort of in his tradition i am in his tradition you know i do i do i do i do i do i do never pull a punch you know and that's what people like or hate about me because when you when you when you don't people get punched not in a i don't think i ever do it in the mean way these the kids today talk in a way we never talked about each other i mean when you listen it's just very routine to be like hassan piker ever heard the kind of stuff that this guy says he seems like a like america's a dog shit country and you know he just i it's just amazing but that that's how they talk i wonder what you know i i don't i don't know what his upbringing was but he just seems like he just seems so sad to me like like so angry about your privileged life but he can't it just see he just he has all the behavior of somebody who um nobody pays enough attention to right and and it's and it's it feels it seems like it is so much as his spine of existence that he cannot go one minute without saying something that he hopes will make people turn to him yeah well it's well i it's i i just think it's it's a lot of it is very sad clicks is they're addicted well and that's part of it addicted to like part of it right addicted to saying something that's very vitriolic and and and incitive and will start you know people angry and yeah you know i mean for people who complain a lot about what a shitty country they're in and they're saying something that's very you know what america isn't something that just happened to us it is us you don't want to be a shitty country stop being shitty people yeah what are you contributing to it what are you right i mean the whole what are you solving the jfk you know what are you doing for you know junior what are not junior what are you doing for you know ask out what the country's doing for you what are you doing for a country i mean it's really it's really one of the i mean i'm the one millionth person to say this like it's one of the greatest quotes that was ever said because you can you can say that about anything you'll walk into a party and go well i guarantee fucking sucks like what'd you bring to it i guarantee 95 of people under 25 don't know the quote oh have no idea when kennedy was president okay well for anybody is if they did if they did hear it they would stick their nose in the air at hearing it because america don't you know happen you listen to hasan piker america is the worst country ever it's a dog shit country well that's what he said that's like saying your own family that's like saying yourself like you are the worst person that's ever existed well i mean they're close but like the dsa they're it's on their pretty much i mean they said officially the united states has never been a force for liberation and never will be really tell that to the people on the streets of paris in 1944 silly nonsense all over the world all over the world including muslim countries that we bombed not to bomb muslims kosovo we bombed to liberate them but they don't look at little details like that they just say nonsense i feel like like it's like uh unfortunately it like a child they're going to say something that is contrary to whatever you're saying like if as particularly trump if trump says uh ice cream is a wonderful confection harry treat they will say ice cream is horrible for you it's awful exactly or i or if he says you know it's very pleasant if people are able to spend the day at the beach on fourth of july i mean we've seen that a fourth of july is sinful nobody should ever have anything to do with it and nobody should be at the beach and this is like what a child does because they don't know where they stand and and frankly it's when you have pre-teens and teenagers but really pre-teens when they're trying to and this is important for them to break away from mommy and daddy to be more of an individual and sometimes when they don't know what that is at all they will just simply be have a contrary point of view like mom likes jazz then i hate jazz you know you're going to be contrary just so you it's like for your starter kit of who are you and i feel like whoever's doing that now you know not just in politics but just like everybody in the streets you've got your starter kit now build on that who are you and i think for a lot of people they don't want to let go of this you know adhere to the ten tenets of the of the world culture because they're terrified of going back to 2015 before trump when they were just judy who had this normal job right and you know had a boyfriend who i hadn't asked her to marry yet and mom and dad are asking you about if you're going to have children or not and when the woke thing started or you know blm started a little bit there which had a good foundation and things by the way it's all part of this and then covid they could say mom dad okay well with trump they said i'm there's more important things than whether or not i'm going to have a child i'm fighting for democracy and then 2020 and they go like honey what are you going to do with this mom dad people are dying how could you be asking me about when i'm going to have children and so this and then when trump was elected the second time it seemed to me that there was a group of people like a lot of these people who had been up in arms you know and by the way you know i had been you know i i had been definitely upset about certain things and i was like wow this is not sustainable what am i how long am i but they they they i think when he was elected the second time so you know now we're not in 2016 we're in 2020 26 oh 20 26 20 20 was real sorry sorry 20 21 2024 2024 right okay so 2024 i think a lot of these people went they finally realized this is not sustainable i got to get back to work and do my own life fine i you know these people are saying i don't like trump but he's going to be here another four years just leave it be but there was a collection of people who went over my dead body right because then that means i got to go back to me 2015 i'm going to double down and i think that's the result we're seeing now doubling down on i am not going back to my life no way this is i i must make this be true and when he's done and we have someone else is president like what are those people going to do i mean first of all that's such a brilliant analogy and analysis really that means a lot to me it really is um and then i want to ask you about your own kids okay after this because you brought that into it which is so true oh are we well your character is like a trial where i've introduced a word and now it's fair game well it is fair game okay uh i mean there's no game here uh you know but you know when you were characterized them as like you know oh mom that rings so true to me and i never have but you were a child at one point well i just see what's going on no you say you felt like an adult from the beginning i did and that's why i never had kids i never liked them but i hear from all my adult friends and i see it portrayed on tv and movies this is exactly what i hear from my friends who have kids who are pushing pushing the envelope just like always like how can we do that because it's going on like shut the fuck up just live your life as a decent human being what happened just because all your solutions you're doing nothing what are you actually doing nothing you're making a land acknowledgement did one indian ever get one inch of land back from the land acknowledgement no it's just you yammering about how the chumash people should really be here but they're not it's a pizza hut and you don't want to get rid of it any more than they do it's just crazy yeah and it's just hypocritical and it's a performative i mean it's true all the things it is i think they're trying to ensure that that membership card stays stays uh see those long signs people have oh yeah you know in this house we believe yeah that's that's their whole raison d'etre is to be the lawn side it's moral superiority in this house we believe there are no illegals on stolen land okay but you're not giving your house back are you in this house we believe of course we all believe that nobody even the republicans aren't against gay marriage now you know you're just posturing you're not doing fucking anything i think it's just signaling to other members signaling other members of the club like i'm a good person don't kick me out i'm still part of this even though i'm driving a car that isn't quite on our list don't kick me out because look at my lawn sign i think it's a constant i think it's they're terrified of not being part of this group that they which by the way would roll them over for very little well i always call them liberals in theory like in life i don't i i wish there was another name for it because i don't find this to be liberal at all they're still not over slavery and yet they treat their assistants like 24 7 slaves because they're liberals in theory they're okay with slavery as it as it pertains to their assistant but they're very upset about the institution that ended in 1865 yeah i think um i don't know i i i think it's better to deal with what we've got now versus things that happened and there's a list of them i mean it's i mean i'm not oh yeah just i i you know as i'll just speak as a woman i'm not i'm not ruminating every day that i once didn't that women not me sorry i i misspoke i almost said that i once didn't have the vote that was never true my mother didn't okay my mother was born the year before women got the vote my mother not some ancient ancestor my mother 1919 and women once couldn't own property and women once couldn't have their own bank accounts and all of this stuff for me now like thankful to the men and women and women. Yes. Men and women. Right. And I want to talk about that too. Correct. Men and women that changed all of that. Yep. And I stepped into, when I was born, into a world where, well, I think the bank account thing was still in effect, but as an adult, I was, there was nothing, I can do anything. You can do anything. I can do anything. There's nothing that holds me back. The way I like to do my life is I see that there is an advantage to every situation I have, whether it's rejection or an ailment or having some money, whatever it is. I'm not looking at any of it saying, this is bad, this is good. I'm saying, this is all interesting. And if you're going to be resentful, they don't even know you're being resentful to them. This is just going to like, that's just a way for you to like pour acid on your insides and just eat you up. You'd be good having like a Dr. Phil show. I'm game. I'm very good at coming up with, like, I should be a manager. Set it up. Do it under your umbrella. You be the Oprah. I should be a manager. I really should. I come up with good ideas for people. Come on, Bill, you be the Oprah. No, really. And you put it under your umbrella. Because I mean, I try to do this too, but you know, I mean, the kids just turn off to anybody who's not their age, which, it's like the worst thing you can do because the kids your age are as stupid as you are. But if they would listen to older people, like every society has learned to do, like where is the wisdom, the people who've been down the path before. I mean, this is like the perfect advice that they need. What you just said, the perfect advice. But I think, I think if, I think the difference is. That's not how they think. It's a victim culture. Because. There is currency in victimhood. Okay. And I'll tell you why. Okay. So there's something called mimetic desire. There's something called mimetic desire. That sociologist named Gerard. Anyway, I forget his name. Apologies. And he says that we, his theory is when we come into the world, we don't really want anything. We only want to survive. We want milk. Right. So that's survival, right? We want to survive. Like the human, you know, at the core level, right? And then we look around. And we look around at what other people want. And we look around at what other want. And we then decided we were going to mimic them and want what they want. Okay, so imagine children growing up, they're looking at, you know, when I was a kid, you looked around at what did adults value? They valued people who were doctors and lawyers and learned musicians and, you know, scholars and all this. And you're like, oh, well, I want to mimic that. I want to desire that too. I want to be like that. I want to be these things that the adults around me admire. Then we fast forward to now. The kids now, what's been modeled for them? What desire are they going to mimic? Well, we've certainly lifted up the wealthiest people on the planet as the ones to follow, as the ones to listen to about everything. And I know we're in disagreement about, like, I don't, anyway, not to get into the AI guys again. Well, wealthy people are not worthy of worshiping just because they're wealthy, but very often they are wealthy because they are, not often, but sometimes, like Musk, are wealthy because they did something extraordinary. Okay. Now, yeah, Musk, I have to take out of it because I think he's done some really incredible things for society. He has. He's undeniable. Okay. But if we are looking at worshiping, you know, in quotes, worshiping people who have money, and then also when social media came on the scene, you know, what, 20, 17 years ago, we started quantifying, instead of qualifying value, we started quantifying how many followers did you have? How many likes did you get? How many reposts? And that, and so you're looking at that, and now that is, now the two are combined, right? If you get a lot of clicks and do a lot of, for whatever reason, Assam Piker, like you said, OnlyFans, whatever, it does, actually, it's not, it's not theoretically connected. It does result in you being able to make a living. If you can get a lot of clicks. Of course. From X, from. OnlyFans. From OnlyFans. I mean, I had. From YouTube. Sophie Rain here, she makes. Or no, maybe not Facebook, Instagram. Crazy money. They all have these programs. So, which I'm not saying are. Bad or good, that people are making money off of this. But, so now you have these kids, and so when they say, what do you want to be when you grow up? It's like, well, I want to, I don't think they didn't come into the world thinking, I want to be an influencer, but they look around at what is being, you know, what is being honored, what is with money, with attention, and they go, well, I guess I'll be that. There's no part of the culture that tries to encourage, that I can see, kids to do anything that we would consider one of the traditional esteemed professions. You were mentioning, we saw the adults wanting to be doctors and lawyers. I mean, I've said this before, I'm going to keep saying it until somebody writes about it, but you can scroll endlessly through PornHub and never see the same girl twice. When I was a kid, not a kid, when I was a young adult, there was like, you know, eight porn stars in the world. Jenna Jameson and, I don't know, seven other people. And now I'm telling you, it's like everybody. Well, I think we did young women and men a disservice to make all this, like, sex positive, sex workers are, you know, this is a valid, respectable, you know. Did you see Anora? Huh? Anora won the Oscar last year. Yeah. I mean, I actually, like, I don't know. I like Sean Baker a lot. I do too. And he's done a lot for film and for -- And they're all about sex workers. And I know, I know, I know. I love it. But I'm saying, and there's always been that area in film where, you know, the soft spot for the sex worker in a film and everything, you know, like the prostitute with a heart and all of this sort of thing. Absolutely. But I'm saying, in society, this is a, that's a movie. In society. viable this is a viable right line of work to get into financially it is viable but i'm saying like that is that is not going to go well you i don't think you're still a human being to be fair to him you're not going to come out unscarred from not doing that for a living for a while it's because The line has been so blurred, like Florida Project, one of my favorites of his. I mean, is she a sex worker? Yeah, she's turning tricks while her kid is sleeping in the other room in the bathroom of the motel. Okay, that's a sex worker. But, you know, she's not like a hardcore determined prostitute. She's just trying to get the money to pay that week's, you know, it's just. I don't know. The prostitution part of it is a small part of a portrait of desperation in America that exists a lot. And also, I mean, why that, apropos to our earlier debate about, like, don't lecture me, but just give me a great choice in a movie. Like, that's a movie about a mother who is, like, cover of Bad Moms magazine. And yet, when the child services come to take the kid away, like, what would I vote for? No, I know the mom's really imperfect, but this kid loves the mom. The mom is the kid's too much her friend as opposed to her mother. But it's not like she doesn't love the kid. She is a terrible mother, but she is the mother, and she does really love the kid. And the kid really loves her. The kid might get killed crossing the highway, but if she doesn't, she's really having a good time. And she really doesn't want to go to child services. So it's a brilliant moral choice that this director leaves you with. That's what a great movie is to me. And he is a great filmmaker. There are women and men who have made situations great for me that I was born into, right? The year I was born, you know, like getting women the vote and we could own property and all this sort of thing, right? Right. and i included men because yes the they made it happen i am so grateful to all the men who have done anything ever in the world that's beneficial to us and this crushing of men particularly young men that's happened over the last i don't know 15 years i think is is a horrible horrible shameful I mean, you said it earlier about the left and how they kind of only believe one thing and then they stop thinking. Yeah, I mean, was the women's suffrage movement started by women and carried through by women? Yes, it was. Carrie and Nation and other people, Susan B. Anthony, that's where it started and they get a lot of credit. But it never would have happened because there was no women in government unless men did it too. Did, you know, slavery was terrible, but also, Also, it was Lincoln and white men who stopped it. Both things are true. Again, can't you just fucking people? It's all, yeah, it's all, yeah, I think just basically people are scared. And so they adhere to these things because they don't know what else to do. But I think now we're getting into like, I think we're getting beyond the, oh, I'm scared, so I'm going to, I have to use pronouns all the time or whatever somebody's thing is. But I think we've gone past that now. And now we're in a, like a state of this commitment to destruction. And that, like the whole, like the DSA, here's what we want to do. We want to get rid of the police. Okay, have you thought that through? We want to get rid of the jails. Have you thought that through? We want to get rid of private property. Okay, hold on. And this list that they have published. And I'm just like, okay, now I have a line in the sand. I have a fucking line in the sand. That's why I said. And I'm not, this is not about politics. This is about, and I was saying to the guys earlier, like, to me, being an American is, I am free to pursue the kind of life I want and to do whatever I want. So long as what I'm doing doesn't impinge on somebody else's ability to do the same. Now, the stuff they're talking about impinges on my ability. Correct. And this is not conducive to. An American society. That's why I told the vice president, my vote is in play. And then, of course, within 24 hours, they wrote, Bill Maher's a Republican. I never said that. I'm nothing. I said, my vote is in play. If you are really going to pursue this communist, and it's, again, not socialist, it's communist, taking over the means of production, taking over, and then they will list. You can read it. It's in writing. It's, yeah. They're key. They're key industries. It's all the key. That's what communism is, when the government takes over all key industries. And, again, I'm not against a certain degree of socialism. A certain degree of socialism is appropriate. I do not think the prisons should be in private hands. I do think. Oh, yeah, that would probably not be good. You know, like some corporations shouldn't be trusted with certain things, but not everything. You're going to ruin society. And, of course. These are the people complaining about how terrible capitalism is, sitting there, ordering their food from their phone, and having it brought to their door. You get your food from your phone. Somebody just leaves it, and you go out and get your food, you fucking assholes. Your life is so fucking good, and you hate it. You hate it. Dog shit America. I know. Dog shit America. Here's what I want to know. Yeah, you forgot the fries. Yeah. What's the end game? Let's say they get whoever, you know, they, and, again, I'm not going to use the word liberals. I'm just going to say, like, these fucking insane people. Let's say you get everything you wanted. Let's say. Everything on that list. You get the whole thing, the whole thing. I mean, first of all, I can tell you for sure, anybody can tell you, you haven't thought this through. But, like, what then? The DSA website says. You've got the purge in real life because you have no jails and no, everybody better have a gun. I've said the same exact thing. Don't touch the Second Amendment. It's the purge. Everybody needs a gun. It's the purge. If you're going to have that, no police and no jails. It's the purge every day. And, but everything is, I mean, look, none of it makes sense. None of it. Everything is free, and you're like, what, somebody's paying, who's paying for that? Okay, but let's say they get all these things. Now what? Now what? Now, now you have to, now what are you, how are you going to manage this? What? But again, as I said at the beginning, it's like you expect me to bow down to just one side of it, the left side of it. I'm the bad person because I'm questioning things. Yeah. That we're going to abolish the police, that everything is going to be free. I mean, their website literally says, you know, imagine this world where you don't have to worry about rent. You don't have to worry about transportation. If you're a child. If you're a child. Yeah, I can imagine. But, you know, but somebody's, something. Right. If I'm five, I can do this. Make sure there are enough parents. But you're the good people. You're the smart people. You're the people who shouldn't be questioned. I got the, I got that when I started questioning Newsom. And I said, I said, oh, we've had, I think it was $30 billion just poof, out the window through unemployment, unemployment cards during. 2020, during 2020 through 2023. $30 billion. And I know for a fact from somebody who worked in the government that they were told, just, we're not going to worry about the fraud now, just get the money out. And I started saying, well, $30 billion may sound like this, like crazy big number, but, you know, just tell me, you know, anybody, what did you pay in taxes this year? Was it $100,000? Was it $50,000? Was it a million dollars? Okay. What if I just take that money from you? That I'm sure you could have used. Right. And I'm just going to throw it in the toilet and I'm never going to pull it out of the pipes. That's it. How does that feel? Because that's what he did. But here's the thing about Newsom. And then people go like, oh, you sound like a Trumper. And I'm like, wait, wait, wait. I'm like, when you have a housekeeper or a mechanic or anybody you've hired, because we, we pay for these people's salaries and they don't do a good job. Do you just go, that's okay. I want to make sure that, you know, they, they know that I'm on board. I'm on board with everything. And so I'm not going to question this. And I'll lie. And then you, you don't say like, hey man, what, what's, well, where's, where's my fan belt? Right. Like, I can't drive now. And they go, and then what do you think he's going to say? Like, oh, what are you saying? Are you, are you, are you, are you an un-mechanic? Are you a non-mechanic or whatever? I don't know what you'd say. I don't know what the word would be. That is priceless. But no, but you always, you say like, no, this is ridiculous. I'm never bringing my car back to you again. And that's how I feel about some of these politicians. Like, no, I never want you to be, I don't want you to drive a bus I might be on. Because I don't think you're responsible. Here, this is the key question. Okay. I'm really getting to it now. All right. I'm serious. So you and I, we're right. We're the smart ones. Okay. We got our handle on this. Okay. Yeah. These other people are insane. How do we win in Hollywood? Because in Hollywood, they're all against us. Because they're part of the stupid. No, but see, I haven't found that. They're part of the stupid orati. But I haven't found that. I mean, last year, I worked more last year than I. No, I mean, just win on the court of public opinion in this town. I mean, you said. No, but I think there's too many. Like I said, I don't think these are bad people. I think these are fearful. Uneducated. Fearful. Okay. Fearful people. Fearful of being ostracized by other people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Yeah. It's a fearful thing. And also fearful of the thousand noisiest people. How do we. Listen, the entertainment business is not. It's done. I mean, yes, there are still things being made. Not done. But generally, well, whatever's being done. This is a content conveyor belt. And sometimes you get an outlier that's a really good film. You know, like Back Rooms. Kane Parsons. I saw it. Back Rooms. Maybe you didn't like it. I thought it was genius. I mean, I thought genius. I think he's a genius. That's a strong word. No, I think he's a film prodigy. I mean, I really wanted to talk to him. He was going to be here, but he never has. So, like, I don't know if I should, like. I mean, I didn't hate it. What was genius about it? I thought the way that. The first of all, and like, I got to, like, tip my hat to A24 and Jason Blum and everyone who was involved, too. The idea that you have a new. Sounds like an acceptance speech. Yeah, I'd love to accept something for Kane Parsons. But I think that. Also God. To have a new filmmaker come in and do something that is so. Was it entertaining? I mean, it's a lot of. I guess I found it to be metaphorical for where we're at right now. It is. With so many things. I agree. And then I went on his website. But somewhat at the price of being entertaining. I mean, if people haven't seen the movie, it is a smart movie about an interesting subject. But it's. I mean, are you a horror fan? No. And neither am I. OK. And I think horror fans were just like, give it to me. Oh, really? They didn't like it. No, no, they did. They were like, give it to me. Give it to me. So for them. When you say entertaining. Because it was a twist on a horror film. But you say entertaining. Like horror fans found it really entertaining. You know what? I actually honestly feel like it's generational. There's a certain sort of anxiety in the younger generations that they very much related to in that movie that I do not have. OK. Like, I mean, if you didn't see the movie, people, I can't. It's very hard to explain. But the guy owns a furniture store. And underneath the furniture store is this world that goes on forever. - Yeah. - All of back rooms. - No, I get you that-- - And some of them have furniture in it. it's very metaphorical it's very you know what it reminded me of a lot 2001 a space odyssey okay remember you'd see the monolith and now it's like in outer space and now it's here and like there's a grandfather clock that you know especially the last like 10 minutes of the film it's not literal right so but i i the fact that he got something that um theoretically complex out there and that made a lot of money which means he'll be able to do make more films and then i went to his youtube account and looked at one of his early like this is this the second thing he ever posted or fourth thing he ever posted was some short he did i forget the name of it when he was 14 years old or something and conceptually and the manner in which he executed it i'm telling you this guy's a film prodigy oh he is i that's why i wanted him here yeah um i want to talk to him yeah well check out check out the video that if you do have him in here check out that one short before you bring him in i will i mean again i think some of it is uh in the category of in my generation i can never get this close to this movie because it just does not speak to my right no i mean i was a free range child we got home from school and we just ran out the door and did whatever the fuck we wanted until dinner time that is not this generation's i know experience i know you know and so for them to be in this claustrophobic world yeah is very very close to their reality so given that yeah i mean i like the movie as much as i could have i hear you and i totally agree with you that it was not uh in the realm of entertaining like i just want to go to the movies and just you know someone to just show me a good time that's okay so yeah and there's room for that and i think one of the problems with the film industry is that though there is there's always been space for films like back rooms um unfortunately there's hardly anything and you know we've got back rooms and then we've got this like second screen content and then we've got um you know uber like violent like violence porn like really violent stuff and then and there's there's room for all kinds of films but then if you don't have any of the rest of it you don't have you don't have the comedies you don't have the romantic comedies you don't have the the you know the moving uh dramas that are uplift you know is there a movie you want to make that that you can't get made because they don't get it oh sure i've got a a satire called panda man a satire on 2020 called panda man what do you mean on 2020 oh the year 2020 called panda man it's called panda man the pandemic no no no is that with the pan no no no no panda man's reference is something else entirely but uh that was the pandemic so funny but it was it was but it's about the pandemic no no and this is a parallel this is a uh something else happened so it's not about 2020 in our world and why can't you get it made oh i don't i it's just it's not it's just not meant to be right now i don't know and i've got other ones uh i'm not gonna go through all those all the scripts i've got holy shit but yeah i've got other ones that i can't get you know here's an interesting thing yeah i saw an article that said you know not enough indie films are being made like the buyers are out there and i haven't read the whole article just saw the headline and one of the issues is and people may not know this for studio films i don't know studio films or streamers but for indie films in order to get the funding you have to get the funding to make the films you have to get the funding to make the films you have to have a cast member or two or three that is on the list right and the list is pretty finite and getting smaller every day because we don't make movie stars anymore we don't make new movie stars anymore and and all the this handful of actors are being offered all the indie films and they can only do one at a time so and then they've got their lives and maybe they want to have a kid or you know whatever's going on for them or do a studio movie or do a studio film yeah or get an apple apple tv payment or something or or have a t-mobile ad or i mean whatever right i mean i don't mean that disparaging to whoever's doing t-mobile but just like you know there's there i mean you you gotta admit like that there was a big shift in the last couple of years from you know movie stars doing uh when i turn on commercials when i go to um fandango at home which used to be voodoo you have that i can't keep track of it all the name changes in the movie so i can't keep track of it all the name changes in the movie so you don't know so you never had that you never had voodoo it's just just movies right i like them because unlike the other streaming devices they never locked me out and like make me prove i really am who i've always been just like you know what you want to watch this movie that was in the theater three three months ago here you go here you go that's how it used to be right yes success hbo or showtime always success on that's great go at home that's great the other ones it's it's often fuck you who are you who are you wait a minute you know me who are you for years you know me but we're gonna show you commercials now what do you mean really the password again i understand why they're doing it anyway um but um like i see movies there that i never heard of sometimes they're quite good and they're independent kind of movies somebody green greenlit them somebody made them a real movie and then i guess they just went well we don't think it's going to make money at the theater so we're just so so why throw good money after bad and promote it so we're just going to throw it here on the streaming service also promotion is really hard right it used to be so and expensive it used to be so easy so just sell it to fandango at home because people watch movies at home anyway i actually did i i'm a contributing film editor for spin magazine and bob guttion one of my oldest yeah he's really i like him so much who doesn't um he's great um and uh one of the pieces i just did that i i uh it's from the spring issue they do it quarterly now so i write for the the physical magazine um uh i just uh with their permission put the last springs up there which is here's a bunch of movies and and series you might not have seen because it's such a costco sized uh kind of arena to find something you want to do find something you want to watch that the ones that are good and they've been there it's they're hard to find so there's a list now how can the industry be doing so bad when they're making so much there's so much well let's think about this let's think about the financial structure right the financial structure for uh for films for a hundred years or so was uh you want to see this movie you're going to pay i'll just grab a price right fifteen dollars every time you're going to go see this film and every time if you want to see it's a fifteen dollars and i want to see it's fifteen dollars even if we go together and even if we want to see it multiple times we'll have to pay fifteen dollars every time per person okay that's a financial model and your residuals and all these other things right tv series you got good ratings then the the advertisers are going to pay more to you know per 30 seconds to be on that show into syndication syndication was where all the real money was and then you have yeah you have back in syndication all these kinds this is our financial structure right and it really worked then the streamers came along which are tech companies and they said you know what our financial model is because we don't have the same financial model as you guys because we depend on stock prices and investors and they ruined people who didn't talk i mean you know it's just like this always happened but let me tell you about this but the financial structure did not change from the talkies well it has to well sure it did but you go to a financial structure like this where you say to the user you have fifteen dollars pay me and i will give you access to a thousand movies for a month for your your whole household now that is not you think about that financial compared with what i just mentioned that's a very different kind of model that was never going to be profitable for filmmakers my friend who was writing the golden girls in the eighties when we were on our sitcoms on nbc you said to me once you know you used to look at the schedule and see what you're up against now you're up against everything that was ever filmed that's it you're up against a plus video games oh yeah plus everything and social media plus ketamine everything you're just up against everything and that's why marketing is so difficult now too because the audience is so scattered i mean trump was tweeting shit about me this weekend and it was like uh it's so funny the things he says like you know bill maher oh the ratings are so low it's sad because i like him i mean he really sad and like he even knows what my ratings are i don't even know what my ratings are are there ratings anymore exactly my point like even if there were i wouldn't believe it because first of all i assume because hbo keeps me on they're not bad but also could you even tell people watch things on every different format at every different hour of the day They can see it on YouTube. They can see it pirated. They can see it on HBO. It just doesn't, you know, it's how many people are really seeing something, and you just can't measure that. And even the way the streamers, like, gauge engagement, measure engagement. I mean, it's changed over the years, right? Sometimes it was like, well, if they just clicked on it. And then it was like, well, if they watch at least a minute. Well, if they watch 10 seconds of it. Well, you know, so it's like, I don't know. Did they even watch it? Who knows? All right. I've kept you long enough. Thank you. Thank you. This was such a pleasure. I'm glad I got to know you. I'm so glad, too, really. The best thing about this podcast is when I get to know somebody who I kind of wanted to know. And then, you know, what are you going to call somebody up? Hey, I don't know you, but I always liked you. Come on my podcast. Go have dinner. Be like. Who's this fucking pervert? But if it's a podcast, you know, it's a little like what Sam Harris once said about praying. He said, if you took your hairdryer out and you spoke into it and you told people you were speaking to some sky god, they would call the insane asylum. But if you take away the hairdryer, you're praying. If it's an invisible god, you're in better shape. Right? Well, I'm just saying. I mean, I'm saying like. It is an invisible god. I mean, you know, whether you have the hairdryer in front of you, if you think you're communicating. And, you know, I don't judge. I'm an atheist and think it's silly, but I don't judge religious people. Are you religious? No. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you were, I wouldn't love you any less. I just have. It's just no. There's no judgment in it with me. I think religion and spirituality are two different things. That are sometimes compatible and oftentimes not. And religion can twist things. I don't even know what spirituality is. And I'm not sure anybody who uses the word does either. And that's okay. You know, I get it. It's like this thing that's not what we really know. But it's sort of like wanting to be better than we are. And I feel like I have that innately because I was raised the right way. But. Well, you know, and I think it's really important. That people have some kind of foundation they can count on. And for some people, it is a sense that everything works out. For some people, it's like, well, I had a solid family foundation. So I've got that. For some people, it's God. For some people, it's the universe. Numbers. Numbers. Numbers never fail. Right. And I think when you have that, whatever that is for somebody. Then you're not going to be tossed to and fro. When everything gets crazy. When everything gets crazy around you. No, it's so true. So that's why I think it's important for people. But, you know, I mean, whatever people want to do, that's up to them. That's exactly what my mother said when I interviewed her for my movie, Religious. And said, why, I mean, you're Jewish. Why didn't you ever mention that? I'm 13 when I'm first hearing this. You know, and she said, well, we didn't think it was important. But you're not Catholic. We were raised Catholic. And she said, I thought it was more important that you have some structure. In other words, it kind of doesn't matter what religion it is, as long as you believe in some bullshit. You know, some bullshit that you can count on. And dad is really kind of insistent that it be Catholicism. You know, his family is, you know, it was not like the thing to do in 1951 for a Catholic to marry a Jew. To begin with. Not that my mother was very Jewish. She was barely, I mean, never went to temple herself. But that was the family. But it was just, that's the way it was seen. Like, you need a structure. And maybe they were right. Structure is what kids don't have today. Enough structure, I think. Well, you look at, like, in the physical, right? Like, in nature or, you know, when we construct buildings or something. If you don't, if a tree doesn't have a strong root system. You just knock it over. If a building has a poor foundation, it's going to fall down. Like, it's just that. It's simple. It's simple. Are your kids too woke? Are they? No, they're not. Do you argue with them about wokeness? I tell you what. No. How old? 23 and 22. Oh, that's the age. Did you see the thing about the nails? Right. If you paint your nails. Yes, I saw it. If you paint your nails, you're racist. I'm like, come on, you guys. Do you not have anything? Have you run out? Have you run out of things? Because this is just stupid. It is so stupid. No, and people will say, oh, gosh, you know, they're racist because they're saying what they're saying. But the joke, folks who are judging us, the joke is not about that we think racism is cool. The joke is about we think your reaction to it is over the top. Which it is. Yeah. There's a big difference there. Once again, we're right. Well, just like making stuff up. Someday, maybe we will win. Because a lot of people need there to be a problem in order for them to have to maintain their position of being the solution deliverer. The people with the lawn signs. And if there's not a problem. They need to think that they're living up to the law. But they're not doing anything. No, just treat people well. Yeah, just live your life and be a good person. It's almost like, how many times have you read a nonfiction book that stated what it was about in the first 30 pages and then spent another 160 pages kind of repeating it? Every one. Every one. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. Like, that's it. You don't want to be, you know, racist, sexist, whatever. Just be decent to people. That's it. A workout book that literally was one page long. It was a whole page long. What did it say? It was called, like, The Power of Ten. And it meant, instead of doing, like, reps, like you do 10 reps and then you rest and then you do three times you do that. This was saying, just do one where you're slowly coming up and slowly coming down, but you never rest. As opposed to this, where you kind of rest. Rest, rest, rest, rest. This is no rest, but you do. Do it for, you know, a minute. But then you just do that one, like, with no rest. That's it. It could fit on one page. Maybe it's right. Maybe it's wrong. Maybe it's the same. I love that. But, like, you did not need a whole book. That was the whole book. And then they just, it's like. That's fantastic. Wow. You're really just saying the same thing over and over again. I think I got it on page one. Yeah. But, anyway, thank you. This was really a lot of fun. Sound great. Yeah, yeah. So great. I hope we do it again. Sure. Anytime. Cut. Friends. I said, I feel like I'm on the Los Angeles streets here with, like, flock cameras, with all these cameras around. 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