Justin Marks on Commitment, Chaos, and Building Trackhouse Racing | Racers Unchained

I'll clean up what he said but he was like don't be a worst drive that thing in there on the ship don't lift till you get to the bottom Like drive off into one do not lift. I don't care if you wreck the car. I'll pay for it I was like and it just was like something that clicked in my head So I was like okay, he said it so drive off into turn one on the chip buck 85 You know wide open the whole crap. I'm gonna crash got to the bottom and stuck and it's like you don't you don't know until you just make the commitment and you feel it You know qualified fifth You Justin what's going on man? What's happening Paul? How are you bud? Oh, it's good good to have you on you You're a you're super super busy guy. We were just talking off off camera tires falling apart and yeah Wilder aces and drivers motor drivers drivers drivers falling out of the car and breaking there's breaking their shoulder Yeah, you got all kinds of stuff going on. Yeah, yeah, it's It's a ride. I mean, this is you know, this is a sport as you know that that it's just every I mean every week brings a new challenge a new adventure or something new to react to and our journey's been it's been pretty wild and crazy and I think that's kind of we like Manifest it by just putting putting this stuff out into the world about how we want to you know We just want to like do things different exciting and approach things in a different way and and that comes back to us with These crazy like for us riding the wall and Conor fall off the car and just on and on and on and on but it's a I wouldn't trade it for all for anything It's been it's been a really fun few years Hey, it's Paul Tracy quick heads up for all you hardcore racing fans Racers got a killer deal right now stream the best in motorsports with racer plus and get a full year of racer magazine Six bad ass collectible issues all bundled and discounted we're talking live WRC the car Crandon off-road DTM British touring cars Le Mans world Superbike and even the Isle of Man TT all in one place hit up racer dot com Forward slash bundle and fuel up on all the best racing from around the world. That's racer dot com forward slash bundle Well, we're gonna talk about your history and driving in the sport. I mean, I start off with with the stats and You're 24-hour Daytona winner Five-time impsa winner and one NASCAR win, so I mean, that's pretty impressive. I mean you were really a Road racer at heart not really a NASCAR guy. I mean kind of cut all your teeth and road racing Yeah, I mean I always viewed my career as being somebody who like didn't grow up in a racing family didn't didn't really didn't grow up doing it Just just fell in love with it as a teenager and kind of just pursued it as a career first Kind of made a decision to try to go be a race car driver like like people make decisions to do anything else which is relatively unconventional and You know, I was I felt like I was good not great. I mean, I felt like I was good enough to be able to get opportunities with you know some good teams And get some success, but never really be you know like at the top level Consistently winning championships and and going all the way, but you know, I started I Started to point one in the 24 hours is no no nothing to be average about I mean, that's a tough thing to pull off, you know, you got a yeah I mean you have you have co-drivers, but you got to pull your own weight, you know true Yeah, I mean the 24 hours is is just like one of my favorite races in the world I love it and I think you know having the opportunity to experience my drove at 13 or 14 times and being able to have the experience of winning it and getting the watch and everything is Really a highlight of my career just because I've got so much respect for the field of drivers there and how hard it is I mean, you know last year I ran it was 2018 or 19 you know with the GT3 cars and you're just like you know qualifying laughs for 24 hours As hard as you can go and it's in the cars don't break and it's just it's really pretty incredible But I mean going back like you know, I grew up going to dirt tracks and Illinois and Iowa with my grandfather I was born St. Louis and yeah, and you know going to visit my grandparents That's what we did my grandpa and I went to dirt tracks and we went to Quincy Raceway and Lee County Speedway and You know Knoxville and Oscar Lucie and we saw these dirt racers and I grew up just being a huge fan of it and and I got to you know middle school and high school and You know, I would record every race on television and I loved NASCAR I loved you know champ car series. I love Formula One and I would record everything and and then You know play the video games and all that kind of stuff But I never drove anything because I just I don't know how to start. I didn't like no No go-karts or anything when you're a kid you grew up, you know around the St. Louis area. You said Quincy There's a very iconic go-kart track in the Quincy area like I Raced there when I was like 12 13 years old and they had the you know the nationals there and it was a big deal Quincy Illinois, so no no karting at all. You start you know, you basically started at what age? What did you start car racing 16? Yeah, so I basically like halfway through high school, you know You start growing up you get to be 16 17 years old and you start thinking about college and what you want to do with your life And all I was about was racing I loved it and I wanted to be a race car driver because like my heroes are race car drivers, so I went to skip barber racing school at Laguna Saka. I'd moved to California by then You know made a deal with my folks get good grades in school go to skip barber I went and did the three-day course there Kelly Collins was my teacher there, which is awesome We just we just had Kelly on on the podcast it and he's a he's a good friend of mine And I I see him all the time and have a suit and he's he's a trip, man He's he's he's out there. Well, what's funny fast forward 10 years from from skip barber racing school and Kelly and I were teammates And so him and all Berlin would drag me out to the drag me out to have a suit when we were racing at BMW So that's maybe stories for another time, but that was that was really fun fun with those guys, but Yeah, I went through the three-day Competition course. I got my SCCA license and then I started renting a 1969 dots in 510 and racing in the SCCA Yeah, and it just kind of kind of just you know went from there. I mean, I did one year and one and a half years in SCCA and my father's company was sponsoring a car in the American Amal series at the time and And that the driver Johannes van Overbeck was leaving that team to go start up But with the time was the speed vision world challenge GT championship and Where we put a deck together and and went to the company and got sponsorship and and so my second year of racing was in world challenge I went to the 24 hours of Daytona when I was 19 With the racers group and it was like my 20th race ever and anything so I just I was trying to make up for lost time This podcast is brought to you by racer and racer.com the leading motorsports news and information source in North America With special thanks to trusted silver and gold trading partner and studio sponsor ITM trading What were your tracks? So obviously you're racing SCCA West Coast. What were your tracks up and down California like Willow and Laguna? Yeah, it was Paul Northern California. It was all Northern California It was a good to say Cassier's point Thunder Hill. That was my that was my land up there So it's just back and forth between between all those and I you know one race at Seattle International Raceway and a Continental Ford will cross the 32F that I threw off in the trees. I had a turn one there and And then I was a Daytona. Yeah So do you still have that dots and 510 because that's a pretty iconic car? I know Well, I race for a guy at a Sonol, California of the Bay Area in Larry, Oka and we've texted a couple times over the years About where that original car is because that was I get older and I'm not really racing anymore like if I'm ever gonna own one of the race cars That I race that that's the one I would like to own. So I mean, I don't know maybe one day I'll track it down and yeah those cars are so they were so cool in the day and they were great race cars You know, so be be it'll be pretty cool. They just have that in your collection just to look at you know Yeah, absolutely you're you're going to school. You go to college and You're doing business degree and sports marketing degree and From what I've read online about you you right before you're going to graduate you tell your dad You're gonna quit and you want to be a race driver. How did that go over because your dad's a business guy was he like? Yeah, what the hell are you talking about? You know, luckily he wasn't because the way it turned out I mean I was racing in you know world challenge and I was going to College at the same time. So I recognized early that you know if I was gonna have some control over my career I wanted to understand the business side of it the marketing side of it Be able to you know go out and get sponsors understand how sponsorship works and the business works I could if I got good at that. I could in a way sort of create you know my own destiny But you know speed world challenge wasn't a career like I wouldn't get paid or anything I was just cutting my teeth and and and racing and learning and so I was going to to school at same time well my senior year The fall of my senior years when I got an opportunity to race the following season with Top Milner and prototype technology group in the Rolex sports car series actually World challenge first, but then the then the Sports car series as a as a job. I mean as like a as a real job and I was like look I'm gonna be a factory race car driver for BMW I have to I got to take advantage this moment I'm not I don't want to sacrifice this opportunity because it's a it's like a real racing job So I'll leave school 12 units left to graduate. I'll leave school I'll go do this job, you know, and just see how long I can do this and then when it when it You know when it dries up or it's not there anymore I'll just I'll come back and finish and so I left in the winter moved to San Francisco and Actually moved down to Sacramento and started started training with Joey Han and Brian sellers who were my teammates and Kind of working with them and racing at BMW and then you know woke up this morning I'm 44 years old and I've been doing it ever since so I'm I Have the education. I don't have the degree so 12 units left. Well, you got real-world education So that's right. Yeah, you've obviously built up a very successful business in in racing, but you know, you uh You know, you're road racing a lot doing well great teammates winning stuff winning big races at what point was it you decided to change gears and just Give that up when you're being successful and go NASCAR like what made you want to make that change because that's not a Easy transition driving-wise because the cars are so different from a road race car to a to a you know NASCAR style car, but that's a tough transition and there's not a lot of guys that do it successfully It's very few that have done that successfully Well, I'm always loved NASCAR. I always loved how big it was I mean, I'd gone to races as a fan and just you know, went to the Daytona 500 miles 17 years old and just the grandeur of it Just how big it was really sort of inspired me and captured my interest So I always kind of had like an eye on it and I went and like tested late models went to like a late model school while I was road racing well in 2006. I was teammates with with Joey Han and Bill Oberlin and Boris said and we were racing in the American Le Mans series and that's when that we were racing the M3 and had the inline six it was the old it was the old GT R E 46 GT R chassis They're like Schnitzer and PTG competed against with the V8 awesome car. I got to test it once was awesome and But at the end of 26 BMW factory was taking a hiatus from racing because they were in between model years on the M3 And so 2007 was kind of an off year for BMW. They came back with I think the E90 maybe with Ray Hall or something after that I'm not sure and so we all kind of scattered and so like You know some folks went to Panos some folks went to Daytona prototypes in Rolex series and everybody kind of moved around I think that's when Joey and Bill went and raced for Alex Job in that Ruby Tuesday Porsche Daytona prototype And I was like why is everybody kind of scrambled was looking for their next thing I went to Boris and I was because you know he'd been running the road races and and knew some folks out in North Carolina And I said man, I want to go take this opportunity to sort of start over and go to North Carolina And you know at the time I'm 25 years old and just going like I've got a little bit of time here try to Take a crack at that and so he helped me and made some introductions out here and I ran at the end of 2006 I ran you know five or six races for a small arcade team Got hired by an arcade team and I actually hired by an arcade team in 2007 to run the full series and then went truck racing and 28 kind of went from there But really it was it was that very transitional time for the BMW motor company and in sports car racing Where you know, I think I think Tom PTG had gotten a Panos and everybody was trying to figure out where to go And I just packed up my stuff and went and rented a room in a house that Mamel Gidley owned up in Sherylsford North Carolina and Just started knocking on doors and figuring out how to make it work Coming from road racing you you go into ARCA, which is the bottom tier of of NASCAR That's where you go to get started then trucks. I mean what was the biggest? hurdle or Learning to drive those cars. I mean what what do you feel that? You know was different because a lot of guys that go from Indie car to NASCAR they have a hard time You know slowing down. They overdrive the car. They work the steering wheel too much They overdrive the corner on the entry You know how what do you think you needed to relearn to be successful in a NASCAR versus a road race car? Well, that's it. I mean, I think in the road in a road race car as you know You know you do a lot of the work I mean you drive the thing and you manipulate the car and you make it do the things and when you get on a mile and a half Oval or super high-speed oval You have to let the car do stuff So it's like the hardest thing for me to get used to was driving the car on the banked ovals in yaw and leaning on the Side Force leaning on the arrow, which was just something totally different to me It's just driving off in the corner. I remember in the ARCA car and I was pretty good in the ARCA car And then kind of like the trucks in the Xfinney series got harder for me, but you know driving off in the corner and the thing going out into The six or eight degrees of yaw and not steering into it. Yeah, right because it's like loose and yeah And so like if I can if I can answer that by fast forwarding a couple years when I was in the Xfinney series in 2016 I split the season with Kyle Larson and so he would drive a half the races and I would drive a half the races and I would look at the data the steering trace data We go off in the corner at Charlotte or something like that and his steering trace is very very linear Right, so it's like positive input car yaw's out holding that they're leaning on the side for his wide open unwind the wheel and mine was like this Yeah, and I'd catch it yaw and cat I would do this kind of thing and they would be like what are you doing in the car man? Like you know, I mean, I'm like well, it's you know, it's sideways and catchy it's like it's not sideways Just y'all you have to drive it in that y'all And that was the hardest thing for me to get used to and then obviously being around other cars and and feeling the different air It's just not really something that you feel a lot in the road race car. So it's like I was just always very Technical with my driving like I really prided myself on being very rather than just like the send it mentality Right, just like just said and I also was you know, you drive for guys like Tom Milner like you don't want to put a scratch on the race car It's a very you know and for the BMW factory team like it's hard to just take big risks and send it and so you're kind of like You're just sort of living in this kind of box where as you go to NASCAR and at the time, you know, the stock cars were like you know, they could They were almost like consumables. They were like the least valuable asset on the balance sheet of the companies like you right Went off. They'll build another one like you write off a you know write off a GT3 car and it like hurts the company that you're racing for because it's expensive and and all that stuff and so You know, I never really figured it out until I got in the arca car at Because I was qualifying like 30th in arca. Arca was really good at the time. There were 50 cars going to every race But I was qualifying at 20s. I'm like man, I can't hang on it's loose whatever And then one time my team owner brought Kind of a driver coach me a guy named Bob Shaq and I was sitting in the car about to roll off and qualify. This was at Kansas And he leaned his head in the window who was like I'll clean up what he said But he was like don't be a worst drive that thing in there on the ship Don't lift till you get to the bottom like drive off into one do not lift I don't care if you wreck the car. I'll pay for it I was like and it just was like something that clicked in my head So I was like okay, he said it so drive off into turn one On the chip buck 85 you know wide open a hole of crap. I'm gonna crash got to the bottom and it's stuck And it's like you don't you don't know until you just make the commitment and you feel it You know qualified fifth or something like that right and just jazzed and I was doing a backflip out of the car I just was so pumped but that's been the biggest difference is is really Getting the man. It's what Shane is going through on the cup series like getting your car mentality to that level Yeah, the cars are a lot different now than they were back when you were driving oh six to To you know that period of time they were building the cars with y'all in the body like the body is all sideways on the car And they'd go down a straightaway like Cocked and then you get in the corner and it's even you know your six degrees of y'all is now probably 10 or 12 So it's totally it's completely foreign to to any road race guy because And I had the same problem like I never drove a really good NASCAR when I tried it and I was just you know the same thing I always thought the cars going loose and I was like constantly You know reacting to the thing going like this And it's all I was doing was pissing the tire off because the more you try to catch it the more You upset the tire the more the pressure goes up the more the temperature goes up And uh, I tried and tried and tried to slow my hands down because but when you have you know 25 years of Open wheel experience and you know in an indie car I have this conversation with Jimmy when he was on the show like if you don't catch the car before it moves You're already you're already crashed at indie like you have to anticipate the thing Moving around because once it's once it moves you're you're going in the wall And that was the thing that Jimmy had the hardest time with because he came from you know cars that moved a lot off road, you know and just couldn't You know you was trying to let the car do its thing and you can't you have to you have to react to you have to have ultra fast hands In an open wheel car because if it's if it once it once it goes it's gone. You're not getting it back Well that window that that that window is so narrow that box that you operate in is so narrow and Like I went back to Kansas the next year in 2007 when I was running for the championship and qualified on the pole set a track record With one of those twisted up bodies and I remember looking at the photo There we had a photographer that took a picture of the qualifying lap In the middle of one and two and the left front tires on the yellow line right on the right slam on the bottom of the racetrack Left fronts on the yellow line left rear is like This far off the bottom Yeah, I mean the thing is just I but I'm like, but it's all pos it's all you know I'm not catching it. I'm just driving it Yeah, and that was it's just a you it's a very foreign feeling and it's one that like a lot of the kids coming out of late models and stuff kind of Already have and dirt racing already have but you know coming out of GT3 cars and Daytona prototypes and stuff It's as you know. It's it's just so hard. It's so hard to get the feel so You obviously had you know your NASCAR career and then you decide to buy the team From chip high like how did you come to that decision to where like I'm gonna Own and operate this this whole monster now Yeah, so um You know, I so I had a couple of small businesses and my own decay and ends team I owned a go kart race track and I had a couple businesses and You know, I wanted to this was at the stage of my career where I was like going and getting sponsorship And I was asking the cup because I race road racing. I'd done you know stock car racing and I and I Asked the companies that I was selling sponsorship to What their strategies were and what where it made the most sense for them to race So so like in the latter years of my full-time career. I was kind of like One year in infinity and then I'd go race for Michael shank and Imsa and then I'd go run ark again. I was just going back. I was just sort of like a journey man I just was like move it yeah bouncing around just because I was very like on the motivated on the business side um But then I started thinking like all right I'm getting into my sort of mid 30s to late 30s and I don't want to do this. I want to be reinvigorated and reinspired Like I was when I was 19 to go chase something big and go accomplish something big and at the time You know, I was like now. I want to win. I want to win at the highest levels of the sport I want to win at 8500 I want to win cup races. I want to win a cup championship But I recognize I wasn't going to do it as a driver So that was you know the whole time in my career I was always very interested in the business side of it and I was paying attention to marketing and Sponsorships and watching trends in the industry and all that and I just made the decision my late 30s That I just wanted to push all my chips in on on the business side And so made the decision to go cup racing and made it around the time that they introduced this new car And I talked to Roger Penske and I talked to chip. I talked a couple guys about You know how they felt about the future of the sport and this new car that was coming and You know, I got sort of very romanticized about what the felt philosophy and what the concept of the new car was and felt like I could be Successful if I in theory had the same race car as everybody else and had a You know cultivate a workforce and build a business around the new car. So So I started trackhouse and in 2021 It was the last year of the old car and I I was like well I don't have the money first and it also doesn't make a lot of sense to invest in all this Legacy infrastructure around the old car. We just need to race in 2021 get the brand and the story established Get on the racetrack and then figure out how we're going to build a business for 2022 when the next gen car comes. So I just went to Richard Childress and was like you know instead of running two cars Can I pay you to run a third and it will be like a private label race team? It'll be trackhouse racing. We'll pick the driver the crew chief, but Essentially like a funded driver. I'll just a pay you to do the operations We at least a charter and had revenue from that had some sponsorship with comscope and camping world and some stuff and and kind of just survive that year to get on the racetrack But we had to buy a charter. I had to figure out how to get a charter to be able to you know have the stability and The asset to be able to go racing and build a company around and I bid on a lot of charters I mean, I was I was involved in the sale of a lot of charters and I got beat every single time every single charter that traded I got beat went just went to somebody else I think it's because you know I just wasn't savvy enough at the time to understand the dynamics of the sport and the players and all that stuff And so I just I started thinking you know if I'm gonna make this happen I have to just look where nobody's looking and I'd raced for chip for a couple of years and I was paying attention to his movements a little bit and his His interviews and and I kind of started to just think that you know This is a guy that might that is sort of signaling that he He's frustrated as an ask car team maybe and that that you know you want to focus on Indy car and his sports car stuff A big GM's Cadillac sports car deal and so I just called him one day And I was like man, you know, I need to I need to build a business here. I need to think about my future I said you know 20 years ago You were where I am right now and you called Felix of others and you you know kind of started this this this race team with Felix And you've had a lot of great success with it and I am now calling you Saying the same thing and I said look if if you're willing to Partner or sell or do something to you know help me get started in the sport. You want to have a conversation about it Let's have the conversation. It was a hard phone call to make because you just you never know how you know how he's gonna react I don't want to insult him or anything like that, but he was awesome. I mean I can be he can be a little Yeah, and you know, but but he It's timing. You know, it's just it's like that you know harder. You work the luckier you get and I think he just was at a point in his life where he was He was ready for that phone call to come whoever it was and and it was me in that moment and We spent a lot of time together and and got to a place that made sense I went and borrowed a ton of money and took a bunch of risks to make it happen and just bet on the future and then The Monday after the Phoenix finale at 2021 I had a two car race team with 185 people on payroll. It just happened like that. Yeah, so you As a team owner like you gravitate more Driver-wise to road race guys rather than the traditional short track, you know a lot of guys like you know gravitate towards dirt track racers to sprint car racers World of outlaw guys, but you Went the non-traditional route like Daniel Suarez. He's he's a road race guy I raced Indian cars against him in in the 2000s. He raced in Mexico City, Monterey When I was in the height of my champ car career He's wrote he's grew up road racing, you know spg road racer. Yeah, zealot. Yeah, I mean with go car So they're not not the welcome traditional NASCAR style driver Well, I don't know if it was really by design more than it was The way some of the pieces kind of fell in place. I mean, you know Daniel You know when when I thought about the criteria for drivers. I wanted You know, there was there were some boxes that I wanted to check and and at the end of 2020 Daniel really checked a lot of those boxes and none of them were Road racing it just it was more Getting somebody that was hungry and working hard working hard and and had a great story Um, and then when we expanded You know, we put Ross in the car who's who's an incredible talent. I think a top five talent in the sport Came up road racing or came up all track racing and then from then on you know I think coming out of road racing. It's like my purview's pretty wide like I just see talent in a lot of different places Because I've experienced a lot of different different talent and yeah, you know with with Shane It was about project 91 and about trying to do something that's never been done before and and win with a non-chartered car with a first-time driver Which we were able to do and and his you know his talent and his focus and where he was in his life You know, I was sort of like This might be that opportunity to take somebody from a totally different type of Racing your type of sport and and put him in the NASCAR and then Connor, you know Conner's a guy that I watched at the track house motorplex in my go-kart track. Yeah. I was gonna I was gonna ask that because you own own the track there and In Charlotte the beautiful go-kart track and a lot of the big stars go there like the Indie car drivers will power I know is out there all the time Max Papis, you know Jimmy Johnson used to cart there casing mirrors Danny Hamlin They they all go out there to get get the road racing Better so you obviously saw Connor coming up as a kid through there are you a guy that can spot That talent at a young age and say this this kids got it I'm learning that Paul. I mean, I'm learning that I think through the experience with Connor has been helpful for me I'm starting to to identify the framework that I think Shows the potential for real future success at the high levels You know, so definitely saw it in Connor and I wanted to test it by You know being a teammate of his in a Trans-Am race at VIR. I was running. I was playing around Trans-Am cars few years ago and and And I wanted to see him work and I wanted to see his approach and how he sat in the meetings and and all that kind of stuff and you know Just totally blew me away. But you know, yeah, I think I think that as time goes on and the talent pool is so there's just so many kids coming up There's so much talent out there that it's sort of like how do you find the unicorns? How do you find the outliers in that group? And I'm starting to recognize what that is You know a big part of it is You know the work ethic maturity approach Focus, but you know to me the big thing is rate of adaptability I think how fast you can learn Experiencing new things figuring out understanding it and deploying it right away I saw it with Kyle Larson when Kyle came to the go-kart track Race to two stroke 125 for the very first time my partner Eric and I were sitting there watching and We're watching go out there and and you know, those things are they're very if you've never driven one before there They're hard to make go fast. You have to manipulate your weight and everything obviously it yeah There's no very physical part. Yeah, super physical to drive very physical and a very unique style of driving And you know, we're sitting there watching. I'm Eric looked at me and goes he's never driven a go-kart before I was like no, he's for watching him figure it out for the first time and in a matter of you know two or three sessions He was within a few tenths of the fastest guys that we have it's that that rate of adaptability how quickly you can learn Understand dynamics of the vehicle that you're driving and then deploy those vehicles and go execute and corners got that in spades And I think really that's that's what's going to what it's going to take because You know as you move up the ladder and stock car racing mask car specifically You know every time you move up. It's a totally different kind of vehicle Like GP3 GP2 where it's this sort of like incremental power and down force step-ups every way It's a totally different vehicle that the truck is completely different in the Xfini car Which is a totally different than the cup car so you have to be able to get in those things Understand the vehicle learn it quickly and just go deliver quickly. That's what's gonna do it If you like this show hit the like and subscribe button at the bottom and Drop us a comment if you want any guests special guests Let us know who you want and we'll try to get them on Yeah, I don't know Connor at all I've been watching his career but watching him come up through carts because I was involved in carts For a time so I knew of him through through carts and then obviously you went trans-am and was winning right away at 15 years old But you know, I guess the biggest thing I question I could ask is you know He's being touted as the next coming of Jesus to I know to the world and you know Do you have to manage that to where you don't? Let the head get too big and get put the cart in front of the horse Like is that is that something your cognizant of trying to keep keep the kid grounded because it's because there's just so much hype And either either you fulfill that hype or or you fall right Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's it's it's a big part of how how I'm viewing working with Connor is is you know Nothing but success everything he's driven win win win win win win And you sort of build this ecosystem around you of of Where the narrative becomes that becomes like you know, you're the guy. You're the next whoever name the name and and that's you know the cup series is It's in order of magnitude more difficult in the Xfendi series I mean, it's it is incredibly incredibly difficult and we've seen it time and again Very very talented race car drivers that have won at at you know all the levels coming up to the cup series Uh, and then it takes them a while at the cup series made Joey Logano like some of these guys that just you know They can't adapt. It's hard. They you know, it takes them years to figure out then when they do Um, you know, they can go win races win championships But you know for Connor, it's really about Managing the expectations of his environment and his ecosystem and making sure that we're setting him up for success and not risking failure Which is making him understand that the step up to the cup series You know, he's got nine wins wins in Xfendi this year is a rookie like he's not gonna win nine cup races next year I mean regardless of how good the cars are because there's just Gibbs and Penske and Hendrick and you know 23 left all these these teams are so good These race car drivers are so good that it's about going you know, you are now at 19 years old where you're potentially going to be for the next 20 years so Let's think in that in that context and not try to just go get it all right now try to go like okay One a bunch of races stepped up one a bunch of races stepped up and then you go to the cup series and and you know Break all these records. It could happen. I mean we're preparing for it to happen We're preparing race cars and a company here to surround him with the opportunity to go win his first ever race As a full-time driver But you know you have to make sure because there's gonna be tough days as you know You're gonna go through troughs and you have to have that support system around you know that the tools are at disposal and And it's just gonna take work because for as mature as he is and how talented he is You know, he's still as a 19-year-old kid and we're all 19-year-olds at once and and life's very different than than where you and I are right now So do you feel be because Your drivers other than Ross come from a non-traditional NASCAR Background their road race guys. Do you feel resistance from You know from the older set the old school. I mean, I heard Richard Petty say you know the you know a while ago Like these road race wins shouldn't count towards getting into the into the playoffs and you know You know, you know how it is you step up to the cup level and you're being touted as the next coming of Jesus You know, you're gonna get one of these old-school guys is gonna say I'm gonna show this kid what's up and Bang you're in the wall, you know, I mean, I think yeah, I think you know buy in large I don't think he'll face that You know, I think when he gets there and gets out on the racetrack with the veterans They're certainly gonna use all their tricks and all their tools and you know, he's he's gonna have to to learn To learn from them But I think by and large, you know everybody in the industry Recognizes that he's gonna be a star and they know he's gonna be and they like him and and I think that You know, obviously he's a threat. You know to everybody and I fully expect I look at Ross went through when he was when he came in 2022 and I mean they just were running him over and he was trying to figure out You know how to how to do that song and dance and he got himself in the trouble a couple times And he got his craft really refined and now he's a you know much more polished race car driver Yeah, Connor will go through that for sure But it certainly won't be an unwelcome thing. It'll be more than anything else kind of like a write-up passage or You know called hazing but just kind of like you know sort of like welcome to the cup series and and this is how we do things and all that Well, I remember when Ross, you know his first first year there first couple years and You had actually texted me and said hey, you know, Ross was you know, he was getting it But he was giving it back as well, and it was like every week he was in some type of confrontation on the track with with somebody and And getting a hard time by a lot of people and you you texted me and said hey, could you think you could have a talk with Ross I know settle him down and my response to you was why I like I like what he's doing like he's creating a Firestorm he's creating media. He's making the races more exciting and I that's what I think that's what you need. I don't know if you ever sat him down or but he certainly has calmed down now, but I mean, you know my answer to you on that was why would you want to do that? Why would you want a newter? Yeah Well, I mean, you know I'm sitting in a very different seat. I mean as a as a race fan. Yeah. Hell yeah, I want to see that stuff And I want to be entertained and I mean you know I loved watching you when when I was growing up and and you you know with all the piss and vinegar You had the speed that you had and fighting for your your spots and everything I mean that that's incredibly compelling and it builds stars and and it's great entertainment value and you know certainly You know that I'm a fan of that you know when I'm getting phone calls from sponsors that are spending millions of dollars with us going like Why did he punch that guy or why is everyone talking about him and all this kind of stuff? It's it puts me in a different a different spot where I've got these plates spinning and I'm trying to juggle all this stuff and going like I want him to be that and I want him to win and be aggressive and fight for his spot But not but I don't want to risk the business that we've got I don't want a sponsor to come and be like hey, that's not what we You know we're you know sponsorship is right? It's like this is our This is uh, you know the messaging that we're putting into the world and and we don't want confrontation We don't want you know that kind of stuff and so like I have to balance those things and what I told him was You've got all the talent in the world to be able to do anything that you want in the sport Let's not jeopardize your opportunity by sort of like pissing off the whole garage To where you know when you've got races that we can win we lose the opportunity to win them Which happened to him at Polkano with Danny and it happened to him a couple of places races that you know He really really should have been able to win But those guys had vendetta's against him and they needed to get even with him And he found himself on the receiving end of that so it was like you know Let's not throw away those those opportunities and and you know I wanted to be aggressive. I wanted to be aggressive. I wanted to fight but I want to win races too And so like now we've got him in a spot where you know after he went through all of that He went in one you know Nashville and Kansas and Phoenix and Charlotte and and these all these other wins where he just was You know, he was incredible. He executed really well. He picked his moments He got aggressive on the passes for the lead when he needed to and he was very cerebral intelligent about it We got trophies So how what what at what point did you think the light bulb went off for him where it Like it was the turning point of being Overaggressive to like okay. I know I know how to play the game now But I still have these guys want to pay me back like how like winded it all because now he's like one of the most respected drivers Yeah, he's one of the most uh fan You know friendly drivers the fans they hated them They're booing them and now the fans love him. So how did that how long did that transition take For it to switch switch around because some guys go through their whole career And get moved through their whole career. Yeah, you know And he was he's really been able to turn that around in in pretty much a year, you know Yeah, well, it was yeah, I mean it was the year of 2022 It was all the experiences and everything that he went through in 2022 and you know one of the things that he did was When he had those experiences with denny and chase and and some of these guys he made the effort to lean into his relationship with them and talk about it and learn you know what what Frustrated him sort he just kind of like went to school and I think that he kind of took that whole experience in 2022 And just internal like he just thought a lot about it And I think the offseason between 20 what 22 and 23 Is when he was able to reflect on this like firestorm of a year in 22 A one two races finished second in the championship Very polarizing driver in the garage era polarizing with the fans and sort of take that year And really think about it through the winter and grow from it and learn from it And you know he comes from really really good stock, you know He comes from a very blue collar family is a farming family And he feels very connected to the race fan. He's he feels like you know he He is a race fan. He has been an incredibly hard worker his life He comes from a family that values, you know hard work dedication focus All of that you know more than just about anything in the world because it's fundamental to the ag industry and being a farmer And I think that that is like how he approached the racing was just was was like you know This is what I'm good at and this is what I've got and I'm going to fight for it I want to be here for a long time so I have to figure out How to get to where I can build that longevity and I think that was really when he was able to kind of reflect on his first year in the cup series Which was you know just an incredible credible year for him just experience wise highs lows craziness, you know, yeah all over so SVG fell out in the In the first round and I read a quote that he feels like he Let you guys down and needs to get better. Obviously he's by far the best road racer. There is Hands down in in NASCAR, but what is it that you feel he needs to To do to get better like is it more SIM time? Is it just is it just Understanding the car more like is it I don't know if the cars are still the same as when you drove them in big job But because the car is more it's more of like a road race car now that is then it then it then a NASCAR Yeah, it's laps. It's just laps in experience. I mean when he even ripped off all those wins this year I went back to him. I said let's tear up the contract and do like a longer one because you know his he was learning and getting better and better on the ovals and It's so hard to win in the cups series and it's so important to win in the cup series both for the business and for sponsor relationships and everything that you know for for how For his level of performance at the road courses this year It was like I don't want anybody else to have this guy like this. This has got to be our guy because obviously we can win every single year and get in the playoffs every single year And this year specifically it was like look You know This is your second year driving on ovals ever and you're in the NASCAR Cup series playoffs Like let's let's manage our expectations here. You're not auditioning for a job. We've got a multi-year deal here. Just go experience how The playoffs goes how the intensity ratchets up how you have to race paying attention to stage points and where you are in relation to the cutoff line and all that That's my perspective as a team owner As a race car driver it's hard to listen to that and I know that he put a lot of pressure on himself None he did not let us down and and none of the pressure that he had on himself or has on himself this year comes from me or comes from the team I mean, we know You know what he's going through and what he's experiencing and there's a hell of a successful year for a rookie in the cup series never Old truck race before so yeah, it's just laps. Let's just keep racing keep making laps get better and better and better With the goal of you know, obviously we'll make the playoffs every year with him win the road courses and Next year or the year after when he's got you know 100 races in the cup car over 100 races under his belt and and then Then it'll be time to go to go push the button But you know right now the pressure is not there because we're learning yeah the direction Of NASCAR is is Adding in more road racing, but you know, I just find it weird that some people think that these races shouldn't count Towards towards getting in the chase because I mean if you really look at NASCAR I mean these guys were originally road racers. They were running moonshine on the back roads, right? Which is not an oval. That's that's road course racing, right? So I don't understand why some of the old school fans have this mentality of this You know, having guys that are greater road courses is unfair or shouldn't be Go towards the playoffs Yeah, I think it's just noise honestly. I just I think it's noise. I mean, I think that that you know the road racing is Look, it's always been a part of it and like you said it's you know if we're if we're gonna call ourselves you know One of the the most you know popular forms of motorsport in the world or or you know one of the greatest motorsports series in the world You know road racing just in my opinion has to be a part of it And it's not that's not coming from me, you know growing up road racing or anything. It's just yeah You know the you know one of the greatest endurance races in the world 24 hours Daytona. Is it a NASCAR track? I mean, it's just you know, it's like that's that's it's just part of what we do So um, I also like road racing because it's You know, it gives us the opportunity to go to new markets to racing front of new fans, right? I mean, there's there's there's a lot of road courses around the country and markets that there aren't old tracks We get to go to southern California. We get to go to the streets of Chicago You know, there's a lot of places we can go and showcase the product to new fans and and it's a it's a heck of a heck of a thing to witness So obviously I'm a huge fan of it the fact that they They NASCAR has rec have recognized that road racing is a big part of what they're going to do for a long time Really sort of helped inform our decision to put Shane in the car I mean, it's very very strategic decision, especially after one Chicago. So I love that. I mean, I've got to solve smart my the self spot my heart for road racing obviously and you like You go to road american. There's 120,000 people there for NASCAR race. It's like Yeah, these are these are the places that we need to be So what's your what's your plan with with your own personal racing helmet? Are you going to get back behind the wheel again? Like would you do a NASCAR road race or would you In an Xfinity car or a cup car or I know you built a Trans Am a really bad-ass Camaro Trans Am you want a couple races and that a couple years ago But then you just stopped and you haven't done anything since what's what's your plans Well, my daughter asked me that question the other day who we were coming home from school She was like that. I want to see you race again and and um, you know, I miss it I'm so busy with this job We've got such an opportunity with this with this company obviously racing in the The MotoGP world championships from traveling to europe a lot and we've got some projects inside a trackhouse That are just about to start that are going to take a lot of my time um You know when NASCAR announced that they're when they go to new road courses That's when I get excited like I ran the Xfinity race the first year Chicago Next year, they're running the trucks at San Diego and St. Pete with Indy car And so I've started to make some phone calls Maybe see if there's an opportunity to get in a truck at one of those because I love street courses I may have raised a bunch of these a bunch of these street courses and I love them and I feel like You know, I can go there and be competitive. I got in that Xfinity car Chicago was you know p1 in practice hadn't been in Xfinity car in seven or eight years and it's like when you have that Like when I can go there maybe and do it um That kind of ignites some interest in me. So never say never. I mean, I'm looking at it. Yeah Well, it's exciting. I'd like to rally too. I went I went to uh I went to in January. I went to New Zealand for two weeks with Shane and we went in the uh Up the we went to rally rally some rally roads outside of Auckland And I did that for the very first time and I thought that was about one of the coolest things I've ever done so I'm like looking at the American rally association schedule and I don't know What do you see it? You see a track house rally team net next. I don't know like a try to know Something I don't know. I mean it has to be Yeah, the guiding principles of these things have to be like you know Business viability. I look at that and go like man. I just want to haul ass through a forest in a really cool car So maybe I'll just go yeah do that Well, I mean, it's exciting. I mean, it's it's gonna be exciting to watch how this how this all Unfolds with Ross you know for the rest of the championship and yeah, I mean you built a great team You've built a team that's fun to watch controversial to watch and uh, yeah It's I'm excited to see what you guys can do the rest of the year Yeah, I appreciate it. I mean, you know, I thinking back to the beginning of our conversation You know when I think back to where The seeds of this thing were planted when I was young, you know, my father and I went to Laguna, Saka To watch the champ cars and you were there with um uh team with team green with the team cool green car and and you know those things were like the coolest cars ever and you know There were 35 of them on the grid and the place was packed and you know I went when when you were at pesky and you were in that green and white car and and you know that era of the sport That's this that's the era of the sport when I was 13 14 15 16 years old and I was watching every single weekend going like That's what I want to do that's what I want to do for the rest of my life and I just I try Every day to find that Passion at some point in the day because it's hard work and it's stressful and it's competitive and at the end of the day I tell people like I'm that 16-year-old kid waiting in line to get into Laguna, Saka to watch those turbocharged cars go around Just because it's I just there's nothing cooler on the planet. So Just feel very very fortunate to be in a sport that I love. All right. Well, I thank you for the kind words and the time Today and I'll be I'll be watching you guys. Awesome. Thank you Paul. Appreciate it man. All right. Thank you