Just My Imagination - Howland Township, Ohio

This week, in Hellen Township, Ohio, a popular local businessman is brutally murdered in his own home, leading detectives to his estranged wife whom he still lives with, several of her boyfriends, and a treasure trove of letters. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder! Yeah! Yeah indeed, Jimmy, yeah indeed. My name is James Petrogallo, I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Lisman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another crazy wild and sane, just nutty addition of Small Town Murder as always. And of course, bloody, you can add to that too. Definitely crazy stuff today as usual, we will get to all that and more. Before we do, head over to shut up and give me murder.com. Get your tickets for live shows, everybody also merchandise, everything there you could possibly want. But tickets for live shows, I believe that royal oak is sold out by now. Yeah. So yeah, the Buffalo Royal Oak, they're sold out. 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Well, I mean, I at the time, who knows, but it turned into something weird. And then for small town murder, it's Internet salad time, everybody, everything that's going on in the world today. That doesn't have anything to do with politics because we feel like you probably get enough of that everywhere else in your life. So we'll make fun of everything else. So patreon.com slash crime in sports is how you do that. And like I said, with that, you also get everything we put out crime in sports, small town murder, your stupid opinions, add free with your patreon as well. All add free. Can't beat that. And you get a shout out at the end of the show. Jimmy will mispronounce your name while wanting so desperately to get it correct. So do that. And come hang out with us patreon.com slash crime in sports. That said, disclaimer time. Yeah, everybody. It's a comedy show. Surprise. Yeah. It's a comedy show. We're comedians. We are going to make jokes and people are going to die because it's called small town murder. So be really weird if nothing else. You know, if everybody was fine at the end of it. So that's how you do it. And you go, well, how does that work? How do you make jokes when people are dead? Well, very easily. I think, honestly, you don't just don't be a, don't be a jackass. And it's pretty easy. What we do is we don't make fun of the victims or the victims family. Why is that James? Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. That's all it is. There's plenty of other stuff to make fun of around it. Think about it. Somebody putting together a big murder plot and going, I think I can pull this off. That's pretty funny. We're going to make fun of that. You know? So that said, yes, it's crazy stuff. And yeah, we got to get into this here. So that said, I think it's time, everybody. What do you say here? I think it's time to clear the lungs. Arms to the sky. Everybody. And let's all shout shout out. Give me murder. Let's do this. Everything. Let's go on a trip. Shall we? Yeah. Let's do it. We are going to Howland Township, Ohio this week. How land? Howland Township. H-O-W-L-A-N-D Howland? How did this land happen? Howland Township, Ohio. It's in Northern Ohio, about an hour and 15 to Cleveland, about an hour and 25 to Pittsburgh. Fair. Yeah. I feel like we've passed this driving from Pittsburgh. Probably Cleveland. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. One of those places you go through. It's about an hour 52 Bel Arrow, Ohio, our last Ohio episode, episode 658, the Dark Prince of Belmont County. Remember that we did that for a virtual live show too. And that was crazy stuff here. That guy was wow. Too much. That was a lot. That was a whole lot of craziness there. So there's that. This is in Trumble County. T-R-U-M-B-U-L-L County. Area code. Not how you expected that one, huh? No. Exactly. So I spelled it because I'm like, it's a weird spelling. Area code 234 and 330 as well here. Now a little bit of history. This is the only town, howland township in the state. Which in Ohio, there are towns that share the same name. What? They didn't let go through. You figure like early days of the post office. They would have went through and went, okay, this is before zip codes. This is Cleveland. We can't not do Cleveland, but there's a cup, two of this and two of that. You think somebody would have said, let's let's purge all of the names that are doubles and whoever has first gets to keep it. So it's wild. The town is named for the Howland family who are the original settlers of the township. They were pilgrims that were aboard the Mayflower. So they are very original, just got here, you know. Yeah. Yeah. The first ones. First ones. Now Joseph Howland purchased the township from the Connecticut land company in 1795 and then the township was organized in 1812. There was a saw mill by 1814, grist mill by 1815. We're gristin' and so on. Now we got wood and grist. Now we're ready to go here. Now we've got a town. Began in 1830, Howland Springs began operation as a health spot and operated as a health spot until the township in the township until it burned down in 1882. The spa burned down. I believe yes, the spring spa thing burned down. Which you think, I don't know how you burned down a spring. That would be impossible. Yeah, it burned down a spa. There's there's water and shit. And you could burn down the shit around it, but put another structure and it's still the springs. I don't get it. So anyway, reviews of this town. Let's find out what other people think of this town because maybe we've passed through, but if we did, we don't remember. It's possible. What are you going to do? It has 3.8 stars on niche. So questionable for a Chinese restaurant, but that way. Not good. Not good. Here is four stars. Howland township is a clean, safe, family-friendly community that offers a wide range of restaurants and community functions. Sure. So we got that. That seems like a five star. I don't know why you only gave it four. Wide range. Not quite wide enough, apparently. Four stars again. Howland township is a quiet township with great schools and low crime. Yeah. It's an amazing place to raise kids and grow a family. This picture, you watering them. Oh, look at little Johnny. He's getting up to my knee now. Yeah. We got to prune him. He's getting a little too long. They go faster when you do. Yeah. That's what I mean. Well, they grow wider that way. You get more robust. You start to bulk up. Yeah. So there's that. It's mostly older people and young parents with school-aged children, which is a very odd mixture. Just like 25-year-olds, little kids, and 75-year-olds that are retired there. Really states a little on the high side, but so very worth it. Real estate is not on the high side, by the way, as we'll find out. Here's two stars. There's very few career growth opportunities. And the city is, quote, "very dangerous." City, the city, which it's not, is very dangerous. We'll talk about how dangerous it is when we get to crime rate. It's insanely low. Like this person is out of their minds. I don't know. This is the type of person that like hears something happened one time and then they think, "Dangerous. Can't walk the streets." Here's one star. This is fun. Issues with four, with off-road four-wheelers and ATVs, dirt bikes, backyard, one acre of the yard, one acre of yard, the yard is literally a dirt track. Houses here are very close. Noise is a big issue, very old, excessively, not even spelled close to what excessively is, excessively loud. There's no punctuation here, by the way. This is one paragraph. This goes on constantly in this township, plus many other zoning issues that are never addressed as this same residence. Others throughout our township also cause issues with off-road. By the way, they've spelled road twice in the same way wrong, both times, ROED road. ROED, twice. That's not even a word. Nope, that is not a mistake. And the e isn't close enough to the a to make a mistype either. That's how they think road is spelt. That's how you think. Yep. You should see how excessively it's spelled. E I X cause issues with off road vehicles and other parts of the township and zoning issues that have been violated. But nothing done about them. They was already done before zoning was informed. Now the rest of the Nate. Whoa, neighbors. That is some way to N I E B H E R S neighbors. N I E. Nibers have to deal with a such a big nuisance, not even close. And you don't even have to ask for neighbors. This person's complaining about one particular neighbor that has a dirt track on their acre that their kids ride dirt bikes on and they're very upset about it. They do not like not like it at all people in this town 18,993. That's kind of like the whole little area. It's a good size town. 51% women 49% men. So a few more ladies in that town, median age here is about five years over the national average. It's 43.9. So the retirement people are weighing the younger people, the other direction. About 49% married. So very close to the average. A lot of everything here is kind of average. This seems like your average Midwestern American small town. It's got all the you know, single with children married. All these things are right on the average deal. Race in this town, not quite average on 91.3% white, 2.5% black, 1.5% Asian, 1% Hispanic, 1.5% Native American, which is high. You see that in like New Mexico or Utah places like that. But I don't, it wasn't aware there was a lot of Native Americans in Ohio at this point. No, I don't know. I can't even imagine why. No, religion in this town. It's 48% religious, 50% the national average. And it's really a mixed bag. Everything's kind of 10% this 11%. That Catholic is the number one, but it's like 14% to 13% or something. It's not a big deal. As we know, Catholics are the baptists of the Midwest. Ohio River Valley. The Ohio River Valley. Cost of living here, 100 being regular average here, it's 90. So not bad, median household income with above the national average, 73,600 or 361 dollars, about five grand over the national average. Area average, median home cost, 181,500 bucks. It's not so bad. There's a one in front of me in front of this. And this person said, real estate's outrageous, outrageous, outrageous. So if we've convinced you, you know what, you'd like to live in a Midwestern small boring town. We have for you the Howland Township, Ohio real estate report. Okay, your average two bedroom rental here is $790, which is very affordable. 500 less than national average. Extremely affordable. That's like 19 or, you know, 2003 prices. That's not bad. Here is house number one, four bedroom, two bath, 1344 square feet. It's a brick square. This looks like a big brick block. I got four bedrooms out of that. It's impressive. He got a squeeze. I had a 1,400 square foot house with four bedrooms. And did you? They're pretty small. Yeah. They're kind of about eight by eight, right? Yeah, they're not. Like one of them was a good two of them were a good size and two of them were pretty small. Two of them you could have combined and made a third basically. So yeah, this is brick. It doesn't look that great. It looks a little tad bit rundown, not terrific. Built 1925. So it's old close to a lot of other houses. 99,900 bucks though. It's livable. The inside isn't torn to pieces. It's a livable house with four bedrooms for a hundred grand. 2001 prices. That's not bad. No. Here is a four bedroom, two bath, 2052 square feet. It's done a little bit more recently on the inside than the other one, but you got the gray laminate floors and it's, you know, they read and the gray cabinets. They read it. Everything very neutral to make it sell. Little two story house built in 1918. So an old house again, 129,900 bucks for that. Yeah, again, pretty cheap. They just had a $5,000 reduction on that one too. And it's on sale. And it's on sale. Next up four bedroom, five bath tea bowl for each and every beehole right here. Five thousand eighty six square feet. They like the number five. It's beautiful. It's a big like the nice bricks and inside is very well done. It's gorgeous. Built in 2000. Oh, new too. Yeah. Half an acre, 0.53 acres, you know, leafy around it. It looks like it's in a nice neighborhood. Very nice. 529,900 bucks for that. And there's a five in the number. Look at that. Instead of a million in the number of five thousand square feet. Oh, I'm putting the mid in midwest. The mid price in midwest. This out of $20,000 price cut recently too. Yeah. Okay. Things to do here. Let's find out what we have to do here. Okay. Number one, the Trumble County fair, which is right next door and worn, you know, 10 minutes away, not even. So looking up this fair and man, it's a lot of a lot of a lot of like livestock shit. Yeah. Farming shit. I see a carcass steer way in a carcass carcass hog way in. Is that the fuck is that carcass is a dead animal, right? Yeah, that's usually a body. That's a why are we weighing bodies? I don't know, but I don't know if there's a autopsy practice course after that or what? I thought the idea of the fair was show us your prize winning animal that breathes. Yeah, it's at least alive. Yeah. If we put it in front of it, it should react. That's how it gets a ribbon. Then there's the equine station judging. Okay. So there's all of that carcass goat way in carcass lamb way in. I don't know why they're wearing their carcass. You're best one and bring it down. I guess I'll eat the lamb. I mean, and the hog and the steer, I suppose, but not the not the horse. So there's judging of horses. There's a four H royal court, the four H fashion review fashion, fashion review, apparently, the junior fair equine English show. What the fuck is that? I don't know what that is. We have the J bird who's a band playing. Jim Hein is also playing that night. Jim Hein. Jim Hein. There's also a patriotic costume contest. Oh boy. There's that the Thunder Creek band will be there. Yeah. Yeah. The Thunder Creek band. Then there'll be tractor poles. Here we go. Oh boy. Steven Saramuga acoustic will be there. Oh shit. Playing all the tunes. You know, you know, you know, and love everybody loves them. I was, I was real into it in a minute ago. It was all motorsport. There's also a cow milking contest that takes place in the milking parlor, which sounds disgusting. They have a bunch of those in Reno and it's nasty. You don't want to go to the milking bar. There's, um, Diane and Terry say happy or super up there. There's something. Diane and Terry McCable be playing. Oh yeah. I don't know what they do, but all Diane and Terry will get together. There is a stick horse costume class. I don't know. A junior fair cheese auction. Oh boy. These all sound like madlibs. This is ridiculous. Demolition Derby. There we go. That's fun. Um, release the large animals is one of the scheduled things just into the crowd. It's going to open. People run it. No trampoline going on everywhere. Oh ladies underfoot. Then there's release equine and small animals, which, uh, that's horses. Yeah, releasing horses. That's crazy. Um, so yeah, there's all of that. Um, there's going to cut them loose. Cut them loose. Let them go, boys. All right. Get them out of here. Then there is also the community park Sunday summer music concert series. This takes us in Howland Township. We got, let's see, this is starting in May here. May 31st, the Richie Wilkins trio will be there. Oh, three guys named Richie Wilkins. Awesome. Um, June 70 Wilkins. We're all Richie Wilkins. You know, Richie Wilkins. Not the guy who edits this show. Richard Richie Wilson. No, uh, we're talking about Richie Wilkins. Richie Wilkins, which could be one of Richie's alter egos. We don't know. We don't know what he does. He's not editing the show. We know he owns a restaurant. He's pretty busy. He's favorite. He's still. He never know. Uh, June. No, June 7th. Strums and drums will be there. Yeah. June 21st justified. Okay. I thought this was a concert series. Meaning there are concerts of these are exactly complete concerts. No, no, no, no, ludicrous won't be here unfortunately. No national acts. No, um, well, maybe let me go through more July 5th. Eerie height brass ensembles. That one of your favorites. I know you got a poster of them up in your garage and, you know, I think they were touring this year. I thought they were off. Now, this sounds fun. July 19th, the Drunken Aguadans will be there. Nice. Great. August 9th speed limit. Uh-huh. August 14th, the Howland High School Band will be there. Jimmy, this is all top notch entertainment. So one. Oh, I guess 30th mystery guests. Oh, I don't know if that's the name of the band or we really don't know if they just haven't booked them yet. Not sure. Our TBA. Now crime rate in this town. That's it. That's it. That's the whole summer series. It's all you get. They're not even every week. There's a mystery is the headliner. That's it. They're closing out the summer, babe. That's absolutely the guy that sells the tickets for Christ's thing. Labor day, the weekend after. That's it. It's all over. Now crime rate, like I said, very dangerous. Remember terrifying, according to some reviewer here, property crime about one-third of the national average, two-thirds low under terrifying. Then violent crime, murder rape robbery, and of course assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime is about one-quarter of the national average. This is like the safest town we've ever heard of. Extremely safe. I looked up their stats. Last year they had zero murders here. They're doing pretty well as far as safety goes. And this person dangerous won't even leave the house. Okay. That said, let's talk about some murder, shall we? Here we go. Let's get into this here. All right. Let's start out in 2001 and talk about some people here. Let's talk about a guy with a very fun name, Robert Fingerhut. Really? Like the magazine. Fingerhut. That's it. Just like the magazine. Like the catalog. Like the catalog. Did you ever have a fingerhut in your house? I've seen it, not in my house now, but I've seen it. My parents are big catalog orders. My mom treated Fingerhut like I treat Facebook marketplace. I just browse. Just browse, yeah, yeah. It's showed up to our house all the time. I never knew. We never bought a single fucking thing from them. I saw it. You'd see it at like a dentist's office or something. I never knew what the fuck it what what do they have it? What is that? It's just a it's just a catalog. It's a guy mall like yeah. Kind of like a like a land mall for the ground. Land land magazine mall. Problem is we have stores on the ground. So it's like, but they have like like housewares and shit or like clothes or yeah, they had all kinds of stuff in there. It's like in electronics. There's a kind of almost kind of like the quality of a brookstone. Like we say again, like brookstone or sharper image or like weird shit. No, no, no, no, no, like a air purifier. It makes no noise. Okay. Okay. So we're okay. I get what you say. It's like a department store, but it's just a catalog. It's it's Amazon with a catalog. Yeah. But I don't know a soul that ever bought anything from them. No. I don't know when it it may still be hit. This guy may have been a part of it. Maybe he all he wasn't. I think we know. No, he's I don't know what finger hut, man. He's part of the Florida finger huts. It's a different branch of the finger hut. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, these you're talking about the Newport Beach finger huts. They're different different group. Now Robert finger hut was born in 1945 or 40. Yeah, 45. He's got grows up as two graduate degrees by the way. Wow. Has a master's in journalism. Yeah. And a master's in criminal justice studies. Oh, so he'd be a great crime reporter. I mean, that would be Christ. He could break down the court shit for you. Yeah. Well, he'd be a perfect crime recorder. By the way, reporter. By the way, he does not do that at all. He does none of these things. He owns Greyhound bus stations and like coffee shops and should know nothing to do with journalism or criminal justice. But he found a place that has the most criminals. Yeah. Imagine. Yeah. Imagine going to school for that long to get masters degrees and not using them at all, just using your finger hut money to bike rates. It's it. Not even like in the like. Yeah. I mean the ballpark. Not even like an adjacent industry. It doesn't make any sense at all. So he's got a son named Michael that we'll talk about to who he has younger here. Yeah. Two Greyhound terminal, two Greyhound bus terminals later on one in Warren, Ohio, one in Youngstown, Ohio. We'll figure that out later. That's when they moved to Ohio because right now he's in Florida. Okay. He is known as kind of a gatherer of lost puppies. He's kind of that kind guy. Yeah. Treated people very well. Like he only hired ex-cons to drive his buses. Yeah. Which says that that's nice. But then you're also putting a group of people in a metal box with a felon for God knows how many hours control of a $200,000 vehicle that that's true. That too. It may that shit may go to Mexico and never come back or somewhere else somewhere else or just taking a part and you know, Cleveland somewhere, you never know. But this is how who he hires. Yeah. He would also give destitute prisoners a free Greyhound ticket so they could go visit family too. People get out of prison. They know they could go to they could go to Robert Fingerhut for a free bus ticket to see family. God. It sounds like an alias. That's so crazy. Yeah. Robert Fingerhut. It sounds like a name like Austin Powers would make up like Robert Fingerhut. This is my wife Oprah. Oprah Fingerhut. It's really what it sounds like. So his father, Michael said about his father that he really just liked helping people. Yeah. Didn't wouldn't judge anybody before they fucked him over basically. That's nice. He said he was probably the least prejudiced person on earth. He just gave everybody whether you could just get out of prison or you could, you know, come from, you know, the governor's office. He's going to treat you the same way and give you the same amount of respect type of thing. So let's find out how we got to Ohio. All right. Well, he had been married earlier and divorced. And that's where the son Michael came from. But in 1980, he met a new woman, Robert Fingerhut. It's time for the finger hut to keep on walking, just moving along with his little fingers here. So he meets a new woman, Donna Marie Roberts. She's born May 22nd, 1944, about a year older than him. So they're both in their mid 30s at this point. It's a prime time for a second marriage for everybody. Yeah. She's also divorced a couple of times as we'll talk about. She was from Youngstown, Ohio originally in this area. She graduated Austin Town Fitch High School in Ohio. She's a self-described business woman. Put it that way. She's recently divorced when they met, they met in 1980 and she had gotten divorced earlier in 1980. Right. And she meets Robert. Now a little bit of her history. In 1966, she was 22 years old and she married her first husband, William Raymond. And they moved down to Miami together, Florida, Ohio. So you got to say that, no, I might think we're talking about there. So they had a son in 1969, apparently also named Michael. So both Robert and Donna both have son's name Michael or around the same age from what I get here. That marriage didn't last very long and they divorced in 1971. So she's, you know, her 20s, newly divorced, whatever. In 1972, she doesn't waste a lot of time. Grass does not grow under her fucking diaphragm. We'll put it that way. She dives right back in here. Try to think of a 1971 form of birth control in them like diaphragm. They love to diaphragm back then. That was a hot shit form. So she in 1972, remarries, or marries, another guy here. She gets remarried, but to a different guy to Burton Gelfand. Yikes. Burton Gelfand. Now this marriage will last until 1980 when she meets Mr. Fingerhut there. So somewhere in from 72 to 80, she converted to Judaism. I don't know when that. Oh, yeah. I think Burton Gelfand is probably Jewish. Possibly here, especially she met him in Miami. It's, it all lines up. Burton Gelfand. So I think that's possibly it. So she converted to Judaism. She works as a plastic surgeon's assistant in North Miami Beach for a long time. What are they? Yeah. For from the 70s to the 90s. Help me jam this suction rod up this lady's thigh. I mean, yeah, you got hand me this. You got a hand tools. Yeah. Yeah. There's a whole, I mean, they usually have multiple assistants during a surgery. But she's not, she's not medically. No, but learned. No, she has, she has no master's degrees. Okay. In anything. But yeah, she worked as a plastic surgeon's assistant, like I said, not sure exactly what that entails. That might be sterilizing. I don't know what she does. She could be just doing paperwork. No clue. Exactly. But she sounds like a decent job anyway. Sure. Yeah. Easy and to pay as well. Very Miami also. Oh boy. So 1980s, she meets Robert Fingerhut. Yeah. And it's the Donna Fingerhut connection here. Should they get together? They get married within a year of meeting. She's quick, man. She marries you. She meets you. It's over. They bought a house in the Miami Gardens area in 1983. Doing that. So marriage seems to be going well. Yeah. So well that in 1985, they decide to get divorced. Oh. Okay. But and I say that very specifically, so well that they decide to get divorced, they don't break up. This has nothing to do with their marriage whatsoever. I mean, yeah. This is, this is crazy. And because yeah, divorced kind of is everything about your marriage. Yeah. But they, as far as if they didn't have of that paper. you never know anything. Nothing changes. They don't move out from each other's house. They don't everything's exactly the same, but on paper, they're divorced. That's the way they do it. Now, this is some sort of weird financial move. I don't know if Robert had like lawsuit issues possibly or something of that nature because that seems to be the reason why they did this because the divorce was a financial maneuver strictly. Yeah, they get divorced and then he wanted to move assets around in case he got sued or something like that. So basically, he ends up putting all of his business assets and shit in her name. Everything houses, everything they're going to have is going to be in her name for now. And they're divorced. So you can't touch it. You sue him. You can't get to her basically or you can't get to him essentially. Right. Yeah. So that's how this goes. But they still live together. They're still a happy couple. They do everything together. They present themselves in public as a married couple. He calls her my wife. She calls him my husband. I mean, it's just a paperwork thing, which is really weird. You know, slept in the same bed, all of that. Yeah, it's weird. And one person said most people who dealt with Robert with Roberts and Fingerhot assumed that they were married. Her last name is Roberts and his name is Robert. This first name is Robert. That's so confusing. Okay. So they end up selling the floor to place and went to Richmond, Virginia in about 1992. Interesting. Yeah. They spend about a year in Virginia, then in 1993, they move up to Youngstown, Ohio. You know, Thomas hometown. They decide to go from Miami to Youngstown, Ohio, Jesus, which is a real specific move. You have to, you have to hate that heat to go to yourself and yourself. Well, that's a, that's a lateral move as far as pain goes. Youngstown is brutal. It's brutal, but I could not live in Miami. I would last three days there before I would strangle somebody because I was so fucking hot. I can't take that fucking. Yeah. Youngstown is just fucking hideous 97 with 98% humidity and you're in Florida. Fuck that. Yeah. Yes. Fuck that. I mean, great about rural Ohio, though. No, Ohio. It's fucking bleak. We've driven through it. All there is is that grandpa's cheese place. That's not that. That's about it. Yeah. Why the bathroom in there is a site to behold. Let me tell you. My God. Yeah. Exactly what you would imagine a roadside cheese shop. She's just like like everyone's been in the car a long time, then stopped and had too much cheese essentially and and sauce. There's meats too. Oh, there's all sorts of weird stuff there. It's fucking crazy. So 1994, they purchased a house in Halentown ship on Fonda Lack Drive. Technically, Donna purchases the house because it's in her name, but it's their house, but like everything else. All the assets are in her name. Now, they have these businesses, by the way, they have Greyhound terminals in Warren and Youngstown in Donna's name. They have an Avis rental car franchise. Oh. And that the Youngstown Warren Regional Airport at the airport. Yeah. That sounds like a big one there. The Youngstown Warren Regional Airport. Well, that's a big flights going in there, boy. That's also in Donna's name. And inside the Youngstown bus station, these are the most depressing locations. Two Greyhound terminals, a car rental joint in a tiny rural fucking municipal airport. Yeah. And a restaurant inside a shitty town's bus station. That's what they run. The restaurant inside the bus station was called just the ticket. That's what they had here. So all of this stuff is what they own. And this is all in Donna's name. Robert runs it all though. Donna does like the bookkeeping and stuff. Yeah. Paperwork, that kind of thing. In addition to that, he also has, even though they're not married, even his life insurance policies are in her name. For sure. Yeah. She's the beneficiary. He has two policies with a combined $550,000 of money and sole beneficiary is Donna for both of these. That's in the late 90s. That comes up. Now he's at the Greyhound terminal all the time, which he owns several businesses. I would think you'd have to probably spend some time there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was the one who worked all the long days there and shit like that. She'd do paperwork and payroll and things, but he did all of that. But they were very comfortable. They made good money. Yeah. Which is there's no sadder place on earth than a Greyhound station. Not really. No. Nobody there would be traveling with that means if they could afford any other way to do it. This is a, it's misery. Yeah. And we've learned from misery. You're still but opinions now that it's not even affordable. It's not even like a discount ticket. It's so many expensive or more than flying. So many people say in the end, they're like, I don't know why I didn't just fly because at the end, it cost me the same amount of money. But this took four days and they left me on the side of the road for seven hours at the middle of the night. I paid $200 to go from Youngstown to Denver. What you did? What? In 10 days. That's horrible. Slept on several floors. Yeah. Shit in Greyhound station. Bus stations for a week and a half. You could have just flown in two and a half hours and been done. Unbelievable. So Donna in this relationship, Donna likes to spend money as well. Oh. Robert's a little more frugal, but Donna likes to, she likes to spend, she likes to flaunt a little bit. Okay. She in her own words says she has 52 charge cards. What? 52 credit cards. I don't even know how many, I don't even know there was that many credit card companies. How do you get that? I guess you can have more than one with each one. But yeah, you, but still like different shitty banks, different interest rates. It wouldn't make sense to have 52 of them. Or even, even more so. Like I have two cards and both of them have a crazy limit that I'll never, ever, ever, ever spend. Yeah. How many, how many, what's the limit? You know, I mean, at five, at how many? I'm 52. 52 cards. 52 cards. What do you have a limit of 600 bucks on each card? I have two credit cards. One, that is, we both use for airline shit. And it's absurd what they keep doing with that. It's so silly. And, but you know, we keep that, you know, you need a credit card on the road and hotels and all that thing. And then I have like a backup credit card that I never use. That's, that's what I, that's what I have basically. I have a backup card problem with the other one. That's exactly what I use it. Fucking reader won't read my American Express. Something like that or even who the hell knows? Some weird glitch and some shit. I don't know. I'm not going to wait. Here's my other line. Thank God. I've got, I've got a bank one and then I've got the American Express. And it's because banks fail. And they have done that to me. Yeah. That happens. As we remember, when they shut down your account, they got to add that Delta MX. I had actual money. Well, yeah, money, but you could charge whatever you needed though. That's the good part. So she would basically, she wanted like large sums of money for to do things all the time. Like there's a day that we're going to talk about here where he refused, Robert refused to give Donna $3,000. Yeah, she got real mad at him. And somebody who was nearby said that she gave him quote, the dirtiest look like it can kill a person. That's what they said. She was so mad that he wouldn't give her three grand, three grand, just to go fuck around with here. Yeah. They said that she would get, she was so mad, she was shaky and trembling. That's how mad she got. Like pick out to be doing really well, huh? 52 charge cards. I don't know how you wouldn't. How the hell would you get that money issue to you? And everybody can get a shitload of charge cards, right? I don't know. When I was four, I just didn't try to get charge cards because I was like, why would they give me one? I can't afford that. They also have businesses and you can, you can make charge cards with no fucking with this off from the business too. You can have right. Nobody cards person nobody signed on it. It's just the fucking company. Yeah. Totally. Now at this time to late 90s, Robert's son Michael lives down in Florida. He's down there. So he's not around either. We'll get to him later. So during this time, 2001-ish, Robert starts cracking down on her spending. Yeah. Starts doing this. Now she later on in her own writing, which, oh boy, we will get to her writing. She is quite quite the prolific writer over here. Yeah. Oh, Stephen King's got nothing on her. We got a Shakespeare for a, yeah, for incriminating writings. Yes. Imagine if Stephen King wrote as much as he did, but detailing crimes he was going to commit. That would be equivalent. She said that Robert was now giving her $100 a week for everything. That's her allowance. Exactly. And he took away her charge cards. She said saying these are for emergencies only. And so she's now instead of 52 charge cards, she's got $100 a week that she could use for discretionary spending. That's much less, much less. She said that she was humiliated. She said, I'm not used to living like this. I'm used to having plenty of cash for whatever I want, buying everything I want. Yeah. And they're in their 50s. He's probably thinking about retirement. How am I going to do this forever? Yeah. Yeah. Retirement. We need to do whatever. I'm not sure. Now at the same time, you might say, well, who's she telling all this to? I'm not used to living like this, blah blah blah. Well, one of the people she's telling is her boyfriend who is 28 years younger than by the way I mentioned that part because that's important nice 28 years. Yeah and he's banging her because he thinks he's got a hot rich check on his hands. Oh yeah. That she tells him I get a hundred dollars so he can use 100 I get I make more than that. Well not where he is in 2001 because he's in prison in 2001 so he's making like four cents a day probably in there. She's got a boyfriend who's in prison a 28 year old younger guy who's in prison now when they got together he wasn't in prison but he ended up going to prison while they were together here. And that's not her only boyfriend mind you. What? Several other boyfriends. Yeah she's quite a busy lady. This is Donna. Oh my god. Now Nathaniel Jackson is her boyfriend Nate Jackson and he like I said 28 years younger than her. They had sex whenever they could. He's from Youngstown by the way that's where he was born and raised and they have sex and you know apartments he's staying in with friends they stop at motels parking lots they fuck at the bus terminal. That's easy is that if you're fucking at a bus terminal that's disgusting. That's just how are the she now in her 50s in her 50s 2001 Christ she's going to be yeah fit her mid 50s at this point. She's born in 40 45 46. She's banging a man in his 20s. Yeah. Yeah this guy is dang. Yeah 28 years younger. I guess well not really this one. Yeah I mean that's fine. We say good for her but if it was the other way around we'd be like come on grandpa. I fucking yeah. So the same bullshit applies. Come on grandma fucking get your fucking shit in reality. Yeah. They're after you for money stupid whoever is 28 years younger than you. Nobody 20 years younger than you wants to fuck you. That's she's in a relationship. That's what that to the world. She's in a relationship and she lives with a man. So it's like figure it out lady. Get your fucking self esteem in order. Thank you. Exactly. And that goes for everybody. Anybody if you're in your 50s and someone in their 20s wants to fuck you and you're not famous. It's just because they think you're going to buy them shit. That's it. That's it. If you're in like a big band or something you had a bunch of big hits in the 90s you could probably get somebody younger than you that just thinks you're cool or whatever but it's still for money either way. That's a pose. Nobody wants your old balls. Nobody wants that. They just don't for a guy's for sure but I ain't nobody wants it with an older woman in your 20s. I don't know. It's pretty cool. You get it here. Get the fuck out of here. I don't want in your 20s you can get hits that are great. Well, why would you do that? Same thing with the guys. You can get balls that are still close to the body. Why the fuck do I want hanging down in somebody's knees? Bull shit. Nobody's fucking you explained to me of the older lady you fucked and why was it Jimmy? Because she bought you shit. It was fun. No, you told me why it was because she bought you shit. That's why you said. Well, she paid for dinner and she wouldn't allow me to pay for dinner. Yes, because you're the younger than her son. That's why I was younger than the daughter that my friend was banging. Yeah, exactly. Yes. She's a creepy, creepy old woman and you're disgusting. She's gonna let me. That's so wild. Yeah, that's why you're. She's like, there's a reason why you're with me and it's because I pay for things and you bang me. That's how this works. You're fucking this all up, dude. That's what you say. She's like, probably you can't. You're messing it up. Yeah, you're making the whole thing weird by me by trying to pay for you. He's trying to pay. Yeah. I'm trying to get like a sugar mama situation happening. You're trying to make this a relationship. I don't like it. Oh, God. Yeah. So he had prior convictions also. Yeah. This guy. He's got problems. He's got issues. He's a criminal. He's a bit of a crazy. A bit of a criminal. Yeah. He is has is a bit of a problem here. By 2001, they got together around 99ish, 2000, early 2000. Yeah. By 2001, he's incarcerated at Lorraine Correctional Institution and graphed in Ohio on what's I think it's a gun charge as the whatever what we've heard rumor of, but not positive. Okay. So he's scheduled to be released later on here. You know, won't be there for too long, but this affair, like we said, started well before prison. So Nate 28 years younger in a case, but they really seem to be getting getting close by the time he goes to jail. No, I don't know if that's because she's someone willing to hang with him. All he's in jail. Right. So, you know, or maybe he's dangerous and she likes that and it's hot part of it. Yeah. But it's very strange, though, but when they started out around late 99, she was 55 and he was 27. Okay. That's double. That's too much. Too much. So it's very interesting here. Now Nate seems to really in the correspondences we find out about from jail. He talks about building a world of our own and running away together and all this shit. Oh, running away together. You you better find somewhere with a good like good medical care because she's pushing 60 sweet art. You got a fucking what are you talking about, bro? Run away within reach of your parole officer, your parole officer and a very good regional medical center. That's what you need between the two. Perhaps a male. Yeah. You need to check in every month and her hips are getting a little fragile. So yeah, she's gonna need mammograms and all that. All sorts of shit. Pretty frequently. Yeah. All kinds of stuff going on. She's gonna have to have her fucking yeah. There's yeah. You're gonna have to have her pap smears and all that stuff. She's gonna have pro lapses from all the areas happening pretty soon. You don't want that. Her heels are gonna hurt. There's gonna be some problems. It's very soon, by the way. Running isn't really what you're talking about. Yeah, no running. No, no, no, no. Do it on a gingerbread squat. We're gonna go for a nice wall walking pace and an orthopedic shoe preferably in a very comfortable orthopedic shoe. He's gonna get her one of those walkers with the tennis balls on the bottom. It's gonna be great. Okay. Don't run walk in hoax. Yeah. December 11, 2001. Yeah. Okay. Robert is working a closing shift at the Youngstown terminal. He's by himself in charge there doing whatever. There's a bus driver named Jim McCoy who we can only assume is a ex-convict. He may be not. He's a Robert there at 430 in the afternoon working by himself. And he sees him doing that. And shortly after 430, this is that McCoy the driver just left Youngstown drives his bus to the Warren Greyhound terminal, the other one that they run. And there McCoy sees Donna with a young black male who was Nate, Nate's a young black male. And these two don't look like a couple. Let's just say no. No, she looks like an older white woman and he looks like a young black guy. They don't look like they don't like the most like. Oh, yeah, those two are probably together like as a couple. It just doesn't look like it. You know what I mean at all. Looks like a guy that she's helping out. Well, I don't know. I'm like adopted son maybe or like one of her son's friends or some sort of ward of yeah, possibly one of her grandchildren's, you know, father, some I don't know something. It's interesting. So he sees them together. And now the man identified himself to the bus driver as Nathaniel. Okay. Nate's full name. Oh, he's going by Nathan Nathaniel. What's his formal? Yeah, he's going bus station formal right now. Yeah, he's going what's on the on the driver's license. Well, when you meet when you meet at a Greyhound station, you give your full government name. That's how it works. Sorry. It's every time state ID. Yeah. So he said the two of them appeared to be in a hurry to leave the bus driver set. And Nathaniel told the bus driver, quote, we're trying to get out of here. Okay. The security guard saw Robert leave the other Greyhound station at 9 p.m. saying I'm going home. So we know Robert was working at the Greyhound station till 9. Then he's going home December 12, 2001. So this is that night at 12.01 a.m. So it's just technically December 12. But it's three hours and one minute after Robert left the Greyhound station there. December 12, 2001. So technically the next day, but 12.01 a.m. So barely just I mean, it's three hours a new day. Yeah, three hours and one minute since Robert left the Greyhound station. So there's going home a 9.1.1 call comes in to the Trumble County dispatch here. It's Donna Roberts calling 911 screaming into the phone. Oh scream in like a banshee hysterical big brother telling the dispatcher there's something wrong with my husband. There's something wrong with my husband. The dispatcher for the first few times she said it couldn't even make out what the hell she was saying. That's how crazy she's just freaking out hysterical. Um, crying, shouting, you know, holding the phone away and yelling shit just crazy. So the dispatcher keeps her on the line and they send the police. They're like, once they get the address, they're like, all right, whatever's there, the police all tangles, I'll just send them. Yeah, I don't know what you need, but we're sending everybody we have here. Here they come. Here they come. So this is the, the Howland township is a very small department, obviously. And And they get there pretty quick, it's a small town, not a lot of distance to cover. It's about a mile from the police station, the house, so pretty close. Very close. So within minutes, the patrol cars are coming into the driveway here. First officers on the scene are the ones who are going to end up putting the case together here. Well, the first one there is an officer named Albert Ray. And then the detectives start showing up, Sergeant Paul Monroe and Detective Sergeant Frank Dylan and also the captain, this comes as well. This is what I mean, murders don't happen a lot here. So if someone says, I don't know what's wrong with my husband, the police captain shows up. Well, send the cap. Small town, you know, that's a small town. My husband is in distress. Well, what's the problem? I don't know. Well, the captain does, I don't know. That's it. The game warden, the mayor's going to show up next like another episode. Well, send them and find out what you need. So these are all the people that end up kind of handling the case, basically here. Now, when they pull up, they find Donna out in front of the house, standing out in front of the house. They go in the house. She says in there and there. So they go in there. Just inside the door from the garage, face down in a pool of blood, huge amount of blood, they find Robert Fingerhut dead. Okay. Next to him is a fully loaded 38 caliber revolver. Fully loaded. Fully loaded. That's going to be a thing here. He's fully clothed. There is, you know, his wallet is still on him. Yeah. There's no signs of any struggle in any of the rooms away from the kitchen. This didn't start in a bedroom and make its way to the kitchen or anything like that. So they said that during the hours, immediately following the 911 call police observed Donna's emotional state fluctuating, which will happen. If you've watched someone who didn't murder someone, find out about them dying, that happens a lot. That's what happens. First, they freak out. They might hyperventilate, fall down and they go, okay, I got to get calm. What's going on? What happens? Then they sit there for a minute. Seems like the first is like imagining what happened and that's shocking. And then once you get beyond that, then you start realizing, oh, God, they're dead. And then you get over that and then you realize what dead means and they're not coming back and then you freak out there. Exactly. And you have a little blow and then you start thinking about, oh, shit, now what do I do? And oh, my God. And this is real. And then you start freaking out. But that's usually more of a quiet, sobbing almost that I've seen. That's not a, yeah. And then you go to the funeral and see the body and then you freak out again. It's just a lot of freaking out. It's a lot of freaking out. And it's everybody is different too because I've read in books too or like homicide cops. If someone's dead in a family, they're immediately scoping which family member they're going to talk to as a contact and get help from because there's going to be a bunch of people freaking out, a bunch of people doing histrionics, a bunch of people making it about themselves and then there'll be like one person who's calm and collected going, what do we need to do? How do I help? How do I focus this? Yeah. Somebody reacts differently, but they said that very much fluctuated at times. She'd be calm and quiet and at other times she was crying and screaming, oh, my Robert, my Robert. Yeah. Oh, she was doing that real. Robert. Yeah. Now, let's find out what's wrong with Robert here. And by the way, this is what she, she found this and said something's wrong with my husband. By the way, he shot three times. Well, that's impossible. You could pretty much see what's wrong with him probably by the fucking bullet holes in him in the chest, back and head. Oh, God. It's not good. Not good. And on the large pool of blood and everything else, we kind of rounded that. We'll find out. And I'm going to go through the autopsy. The shot to the head described in the autopsy as a penetrating gunshot wound to the top of the head. Top of the head. Top of the head. Which is not normal, obviously. That's usually somebody ducking on their knees, on their knees or on the ground or whatever. We're all ready. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They also one to the chest, one to the back. The shot to the head was the fatal one. Gunshot residue on the body indicated the head wound was inflicted at close range. So they said the muzzle of the gun very close to the head went off. In addition to the bullet wounds, Robert had lacerations and abrasions on his left hand and on his head. So it looks like he was fighting as well. It was fighting. They were consistent with the struggle, so he definitely fought. The laceration on his left hand between the thumb and index finger was interesting because it would show that this is crazy. They just found a wound at first on there. Then when they went through it, they figured out that the bullet went through the webbing. And into his head, that's the top of the head shot went through his, what? So he had his hand up, yeah, top of the head. So he saw it coming, knew it was coming and tried to put his hand up over it and the bullet went through the webbing. Jesus. I mean, if it hit a bone, it might have helped him, it might have saved him. If it hit one of the hands at the bone, it might have deflected it a little bit here. They're saying it is either a 38 or a 357. I don't know. That's your very son of it. Yeah. That's it. Bullets will deflect off bones like crazy. That's a crazy round though. Oh, it is. But they still powder. They deflect off bones a lot. That happens. Yeah. Off a lot. 38. It happens tons. I've seen an autopsy ship deflecting off bones and things like that. Bones can be harder than we think sometimes. And bullets don't always break them. Sometimes they'll also could have slowed it down enough to wear. There's just so much powder behind a 38 and a 357. Yeah. It's just they just moved so fast. I'm not sure if at that close of range, it would have mattered. Put it that way. That's a great point too. Yeah. From 10 feet is a big difference from a full slow down. Yeah. But if it's coming right out the barrel right there in here, it probably wouldn't make much of a difference now. It probably would go right through whatever you're right. Even still though, it's crazy that he knew to put his hand up on top of his head. Yeah. That means that they could see it. Yeah. He could see what they were doing. He could see it sounds like head and chest and combat. Yeah. Got shot in the head and the back and the chest went down to his knees. Yeah. And then somebody did that. Well, he tried to cover up. That's what it seems like to me, but I mean, I could be completely wrong. I'm not a crime scene reconstructionist. I don't know. So the state investigators do have crime scene reconstructionist. Sure. And they have an idea of what they think happened. They think that this didn't start in the kitchen, but started in the garage. They said that Robert came home, pulled into the garage, parked, got out of his car, and they think that's where he was attacked in the garage. They said he was beaten, pistol whipped also. They think there's abrasions that are consistent with the pistol whipping. So that would make sense if somebody hit him, he doesn't go down and fights back and takes a swing. So in the movies, when you pistol whip somebody, they fall right down unconscious. I mean, they're out. Almost dead. It's almost over. I mean, they're just, they could be standing there perfectly. Just, oh, I'm dead. Yeah. I mean, that's a, it's like in wrestling when someone gets hit with the belt, they're unconscious, no matter what. It's crazy. How heavy that thing is. It's insane that it's a, you know, a millimeter thick piece of metal and it's just out cold. Just can't stop the guy. Even though I've seen him get punched in the head and kicked 40 times in the last five minutes, that makes sense. Let's him get thrown off the rope and into a boot and they're fine. Still that belt though, watch out. But yeah, pistol whipping like the first Beverly Hills cop when he walks in and the guy hits him from behind. He just, he's out on Betty Murphy's unconscious in the first one. I mean, it's crazy how quick you can sneak up on somebody and just whack him with a snub nose. Oh, you never see him again in the movie. They're gone. They're out. His movie dead. He woke up later. Like what? What happened? I mean, sleepy time. Yeah. So that's what they think. He was pistol whipped. He fought a little bit, leaving abrasions on his hand and head, made it through the door from the garage into the kitchen, probably trying to get away from the person. And it was inside the kitchen door. That's when the shots were fired. One on the back first, probably. They were all, yeah, they were all a very close range and they said the last one top of the head through his hand was probably when he'd already fallen and was on the ground. Because otherwise, top of the head makes no sense unless the guy's eight foot three doesn't make a lot of sense. So the blood spatter and the body position established the kitchen as the death site and the garage as the beginning of it all. And the doorway is the route there. Obviously, they said the shooter would have walked through Robert's blood on the way out. So they look for that. And there are footprints in the blood. Bingo. They have footprints of a certain shoe pattern, certain size, and they're pretty goddamn good and clean too. So that's going to help later. Okay. So they're processing the crime scene. Obviously, this is a lot to process. The while they're doing this at 3.30am, the house phone rings at the house, okay. Someone calls the crime scene at 3.30 in the morning. Close finger, house. Calls finger, and Donna's house. So detective Sergeant Monroe answers it. Yeah. And there's a pause. And then they hung up. which is amazing. - Did he identify himself as a police officer? - Yeah, he said, yeah, hello, I'm just gonna talk to him. - Crime scene, detector so- - Crime scene, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. So he does that, which is interesting here, there's a pause and a hang up on that. So a lot of times, too, people call, murderers will call crime scenes sometimes. It's very strange. - Yeah, I'm gonna check who knows, I don't like that. - In one book I was reading this guy, killed a guy who's a debt collector. He worked for like one of those rental places, weekly rent a center type joints, and he would go around in Baltimore and do his rounds every week and collect. And he just disappeared in the middle of his rounds one day and he would carry large amounts of cash 'cause he would be collecting along the way. And some dude just killed him and put him in his basement. And then left, and then afterwards called the police and we're like, yo, yeah, it's me, it's my house, and I killed him. And the cop's thought he was a prank caller, so they hung up on him. - Yeah. - And they were like, hey, what's the name of the guy that lives here? And they told him and the guy goes, oh shit, I just hung up on the guy, fuck, they're like, what do we do? - They'll fuck himself. - And the guy called back and he's like, um, and they were like, no, no, no, you're good. Yeah, no, come on over. We got shit covered. We'll come around. - Hey, don't worry, go fuck myself. That's not, it was weird. - It was hard to complain, please. - It was real weird. - To Donna Robert's cell phone. - Oh. - She's not, after a while, she's out of the scene once they're processing, you can't hang out there. So they also said that it was weird. Her, over the course of the evening, her demeanor was odd. They said that the detective Sergeant Monroe and other officers noticed that, quote, when police investigators talked extensively, they no longer heard her shouting. She'd be like, oh, my Robert, oh, my Robert. But then when they were in like a big talk and whatever, then she'd be sitting calmly. So they said, when they entered the room where she was, then she'd start whaling again. Oh, my Robert, but when they were doing other shit and she was separate from them, she was very quiet. She's only well when someone was there. How long was she gone? - She had to leave the house, right? 'Cause her cell phone is calling the house. - Yeah, yeah, after a while, she's taken her out of there. 'Cause she's just at the crime scene. So she goes to a relative's house after a while. Now, they don't know at first that that's who called, but they find out later through the records. They said when a detective checked on Robert's in her bedroom because she had been quiet, she began shouting again upon seeing him. Like, see if she's all right in there and they went and saw her as soon as he came in the room. Oh, God. It's horrible, which is interesting. - Very interesting, you're trying to call and stick to school. - Yeah, my stomach, oh, God, it's horrible. - Oh, it hurts. - It hurts. So they said, one of the officers at the scene said that he, quote, didn't notice any tears coming from her eyes through these giant, you know, bouts of hysteria, which is interesting, which a lot of people, when they fake crying, they're not good at, that's the part they don't get. You need snot and tears in there to make that just believable. - Yeah, it's fascinating. How many, I haven't seen a real good cry on TV in so long. - Trying to think. - The last one I saw, the last documentary. Oh, which one? - Should I marry a murderer or a documentary with the Scottish people and she cried a lot. She should have been crying 'cause she's dumb as shit, but she cried a lot. - The last one I found was that mentally challenged girl that was kidnapped by Ariel Castro. - Oh, yeah, yeah. - The one that he fucking hated that he was so mean to. Her crying in court is, like she came over and forced her way in the house. You kidnapped these people, you're like, "Ah, I don't like the one I kidnapped. Sorry, sorry, Dick had blown snot bubbles in court. It's so horrible, I feel so bad for her." - That is bad. Yeah, that one, that should I marry a murderer or a documentary, you get to see a doctor cry a lot. She cries a lot. - All right. - So no tears, the cops notice this and write it in their report. - No tears. - This isn't crying, yeah. - It's not a cryer there, okay? - Very dehydrated. - Well, she's keeping it. That's what it is. She's conserving her water. That's how it goes. - I'm gonna give it to her. - Yeah. - So 10 AM, Detective Monroe visits Donna at her brother's house. By that time, she gives them written consent to search everything in the residence. 'Cause they's probably consented from her to search everything just to make it official, you know what I mean? I mean, they could search around the body and, you know, but to really go through everything with a fine tooth comb, they need her to search for us. So she enthusiastically signs it and says, "Do whatever you have to do to catch the bastard who killed my Robert." - Exclamation point. - Don't, yeah, you fucking search and search. I don't care what you have to do. You find that son of a bitch there. So anyway, other things she wrote down are. Nate and Donna were writing each other a lot. A lot of letters we find out from the search, by the way. When they go to search her house and they search everything, they find a whole lot of shit with Nate here. They find love letters and shit? - Tons of them, tons of them. The letters are addressed on Donna's end to a PO box. She set up in Warren because she didn't want to rob her to see letters coming to the house from jail. Nate writes from prison on fucking whatever, like a paper bag chunked the right stuff. Whatever paper he can acquire in prison is what he writes on. Which reminds me of Dope Sick Love. He's sitting on the stuff. - Go man. - Let it out. - Go man, let it all out. Man, tell him how you feel and he's writing a crack. He's on so much crack writing a fucking love letter to his imprisoned girlfriend on a paper bag. - Just set up McDonald's bag. - It is wild. And he's going to tell how you feel, man. - Yeah, he feels, friends say it. - Put your heart around the fries oil stains. (laughing) - Sad part was it was generic. It wasn't even a McDonald's bag. - Wasn't even a real stuff. - No, he got a bodega when he got a pack of cigarettes or something, it was even sadder. - It's just a brown paper. - Just plain as can be, plain as can be. So that's what he says and it's 285 letters in total that they're going to find. - 300 pages? - 285. 145 letters from Nate to Donna. They found sitting in her dresser jar. - She kept every one of them. - Every goddamn one of well, maybe and there could have been 400 I guess. Then there's 140 from Donna to Nate. - Ooh. - That is found in a brown paper bag with Nate's name written on it in the trunk of Donna's car, which is parked in the garage at the crime scene. - Oh my God. - His name is written on it. Just in case you don't know that all letters are dressed of Nate's bag. - I think that would look bad, huh? - Nope, not at all. She said, "You search and you go ahead." So more of those letters in a bit here. - All right. - All right, now first of all, they do find from there that he's in prison. So they're like, "Okay, well, that's probably one suspect "we don't have to worry about since he's in prison." Then they find out. But yeah, then they find out, "Oh, he was released two days ago." - Oh shit. - He's released from prison on December 9th. That's not good. So December 12th in the afternoon, Donna goes to talk to the police. She, they got some questions here, obviously. - 185 of them. - At least 285. - Explain this one. - Yeah. - Explain this one. - 285. - 285. - It's worse. - Yeah, 185 of them. - All day. - All day. Well, they don't bring that up at first. At first, they say, "Tell us about your life with Robert." - Yeah. - You know, they treat her like a widow at this point. So they, she describes a loving relationship. - Between Robert? - Between her and Robert. Yeah, loving relationship. But she also stated that, this is amazing. That she and Robert were, quote, a cool couple. Which, what do you think that means? - I know that means. - You know exactly what that means. And quote, he did his thing and she did hers. - Yeah. - That's what he says. We're a cool couple. Meaning she, she lets me as a lawyer. - Young prison dick and he can do whatever he wants. The gray on station. - Yeah. - Wow. So, cool couple. Doing his thing. Now, we're a cool couple. We're a cool couple. God damn it. He describes her relationship. Yeah, just as loving here. But sexually, you know, like I said, they're cool. It's all good. So they said, well, who have you been in a sexual relationship with? We'd like to talk to them. And she said, well, for about six months, I've been banging some guy named Carlos. So there's him. There's Carlos. There's also a sexual relationship with another guy named Santiago that I've been fucking for a while too. He said, I tried, she said, I tried to help Santiago. When I was trying to help him out, you know, and fuck him at the same time. But he ended up stealing money from money and a gun from me. So I don't talk to him anymore. - Wow. - Yeah, he stole from me. So they said, anyone else besides Carlos and Santiago that you've been seeing and she says, no, there's nobody else. I told you everybody. Oh, that's all. So then the cops say, well, what about a guy named Nate Jackson? - Uh-huh. her quote, quote, yes, I forgot about him. (laughing) Imagine fucking someone 30 years younger than you and forgetting about it. Just, oh wow, I get so many linear feet of penis on a monthly basis from different people. I forgot about that one. I don't even know. - I'm sure Nate's gonna be thrilled to know that. (laughing) - Just forgot all about it. She said, oh, yeah, that's right. I haven't been dating him for about two years, but I forgot he existed. - Oh yeah. - And they said, well, he was in jail recently in prison. Were you calling in exchanging letters? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we were writing back and forth and calling totally forgot about that guy. - Yeah, see, that's why I forgot out of sight, out of mind. - Yeah. - We slipped. (laughing) Jesus Christ. - This is how out of sight he was, though. - Yeah. - She then realizes that she has to tell the truth about this. She said, well, they said, well, it's the last time you saw him. Must have been a long time ago if you forgot about him. She said, December 9th, two days ago, three days ago, and he got out of jail. I picked him up at the Lorraine Correctional Institution and then left him in Youngstown at a house on Workstreet. - Okay. - So, you know, I should have probably remembered him. You're right, you're right. Considering I still have-- - Oh, yeah. - I probably still have-- - I don't wanna go back. - His dried semen on a part of my body somewhere possible. - It may still be dripping. - It's possible. I'm pretty, I keep pretty moist. Let's just say that. I keep myself lotioned up good. It could be anyway. If I'm wearing the same underwear from yesterday, 100% certain is DNA. - It's in there. - A lot of it. - So she said she last spoke to him over the telephone on the morning of December 11th, so the morning of the murder. Now, they know from people at the Greyhound Station that on the afternoon of December 11th, she was in the Greyhound Station with a guy named Nathaniel, who fits this guy's description. How many young black guys named Nathaniel you hanging out with, lady? So they're like, okay, so they're collecting her inconsistencies. And then she says, look, like I said, we were cool. And you know, cool. We were cool. So you might wanna look into people. You might wanna look into people he was seeing. - Yeah, people that aren't so goddamn cool. - Yeah, because Robert, by the way, also was going both ways, quote unquote. - What? - She's saying he was bisexual. - Yeah. - Yeah. And it said that Robert had a friend named Bobby. That was his guy he was banging. She couldn't even come up with a different name that wasn't his. (laughing) - It's crazy. - She almost said Robbie, but she. - Yeah, that'd be too obvious. - Bobby, Bobby with a B. Yeah, lots of B's in that name. She also said that Robert had been, quote, acting kind of nutty for the week and a half before he died, which she just attributed to whatever, you know, whatever relationship goofiness was going on with him and Bobby. - Yeah. - Okay, now there is absolutely zero. - Zero evidence. - Evidence or corroboration that Robert was bisexual. - But he had a friend named Bobby. There's zero evidence that he's had any other relationships and they could not find a human being named Bobby that he interacted with ever, essentially. This Bobby, they couldn't, they asked her to track him down. She could know, they asked, they tried to track him down. No Bobby anywhere to be found. Bobby is in the way. - Feels perhaps made up. - Bobby in the breeze at this point. - Yeah. - So they're like, that's interesting. A bisexual relationship with an imaginary man. That sounds plausible, okay. So they said, okay, do you have a cell phone? You have a cell phone, right? Can I look at it? She searched her purse and said, I must have left it at home. - Why? - Okay. And then you got to understand too, 'cause everybody now your phone goes with you to the bathroom. - Goes with you everywhere. - In 2001, your phone was just a phone. - Yeah. - You would just leave it sitting somewhere 'cause unless you wanted to make a call, it was useless for anything else. It wasn't even a fucking camera on it yet in 2001. - You could certainly play the snake game. - You could play Tetris, possibly, if you got a really good phone. - That snake game was mad at Dick Day. - There's a lot of those shitty games over at Dick Day. - So Detective Monroe tells her that their call that came to the crime scene at 3.38 a.m. came from her cell phone. - Right. - So she sits there for a minute like, "Huh, that's weird, how did that happen?" I don't get it. - It's so easy. - My cell phone. - And then she comes and she figures it out. She says, "Oh, I know, Nate must have had the phone. He's always borrowing it." He's been in a jail for three days. So he's only been borrowing it for three days, number one. And number two, you didn't remember this guy 12 minutes ago. - Right. - And now he's got currently has your cell phone. - This is the worst lying ever. You should have done it so fast I had to see if it was real. - Yeah, it's something so easy to watch that call. - I had to see, but why'd you hang up? That's the thing. - So was I heard cops, I hung up. - Yeah, I was like, "It is real." - That would sound better than I guess. - I must have borrowed it to somebody? - Yeah, that sounds, I mean, that would have sounded better what you have over it. Even though she was the one who called it in. So God damn knows it's real. It's not like they notified her of it and she had to call to make sure. Like, still, that sounds better than I don't know. - Sounds better than a guy I forgot about has my phone. - Must have. - Yeah. - I don't even know if that's for sure. - He must of it. He's always borrowing it. - Always borrowing it that guy. - Always. So still the same day, December 12, 2001, Robert's vehicle is found. - Oh, it was taken. - It was gone. It is taken. It's found in Yuggenstown, three blocks from Wurt Street, which is where Donna told the police she dropped off and ate when he got out of prison. Three blocks from the house that he's supposed to be at. - Oh, boy. - A forensic team finds blood on the driver's side visor and in other areas around the automobile. - Yeah. - Not good. Then, over the next few days, police continue to investigate things that they hear. - Right. - And they had end up at the wagon wheel motel, which sounds just gorgeous, beautiful place here. They find out that Roberts had registered at the days in also because they find out that Donna and Nate had spent the night that he got out of prison together at the wagon wheel motel. Then, she went over to the days in and registered for a week and paid for it. - Yeah, let's fuck it all the worse. - We got a hells in America. - All of the most mediocre shitholes there are. Let's go there. At least this is like a chain shithole, not the wagon wheel motel. Yikes. So they know that they were planning on at least having Nate have a place for a week or possibly hurt, too. So they do ballistics and the bullets that killed Robert come from a totally different 357 or 38, not the one next to his body. So they had to make sure of that, obviously. He's got a 350, a possible 38 slug in his head and a 38's lying next to him. So, well, that gun also fires both rounds. That's the other, that's why they say they don't know which one it came out of. So, they said that they can't find that the other weapon, no, they love to find the actual murder weapon. - Yeah, love to know what did it because this thing's fully loaded and how did he not get around off in defense? - That's fast. - That's a thing that must have been bum rush pretty fast. If he had time to throw a left hook, he had time to shoot. And he had a gun out, you know what I mean? It's easier to shoot than throw a left hook. Or perhaps he's trying to get away 'cause the gun's on the inside of the house, gets into the house, grabs the gun but it's shot two times before he can let one off. - Oh yeah, well, we'll find out here. So, there's an explanation to this, which is the front part. Now, Michael, his son, said he was more than just a dead body. He was a person that people cared about. So, he was very upset with the whole thing. And this Michael, too, he'll keep having to come back from Ohio basically, you know, draining his bank account to keep coming back here to go to court hearings and tell you what to do. - Where's he from? - He's lives in Florida, this side. - Oh, jeez. - He's gotta keep coming back. Now, remember those letters they found in the dresser-- - 285 of them? - And in a paper bag marked Nate. Yeah, okay, here are the letters here. They start reading them and they got a pretty good idea what's going on once they start reading them. Here is Nate to Donna early October 2001. - Yeah. - Quote. Why don't you leave Robert and let's carry on with the world of our own? Or let me do what I was gonna do to him because you know what, that was our little thing. So you better not go and try and get to know someone else to do it because I told you, are you better not to try, sorry, he spells no, no. KNOW, he spells no like that. He says-- - Who does that? - Nate, you better not try to get no one else to do it. KNOW, no one else. That's why I was like, you better not get to know someone but no, he means it this way. Because I told you it's getting done when I come home. - Okay. - Okay, less than a week later, he writes back again. Quote, Donna, I got it already planned out on how we're gonna take care of the Robert situation. Question mark for some reason, which is not a question, that's very much a statement. and baby, it's the best plan ever exclamation point because Donna, it's now time that we really get to be together so that we can really see the true side of our love because I'm tired of not being able to be with you. Oh boy. Okay. It's the best plan ever, he says. He said that. He said, the second sentence, you hear, he said, and baby, it's the best plan ever. All right. So interesting, the next, Donna keeps writing back saying, like, are you sure? You know, I mean, we don't have to do this, but maybe if you're sure, blah, blah, blah, Nate's next letter to her in October of 2001, Donna, I don't care what you say, but Robert has to go holy now, it's getting pretty specific and clear what's going on here. And I'm, and he always spells and a and by the way, and every time and, and I'm not going to let you stop me this time. And, and Donna, you know that I've always wanted to live my life with you and only you, but every time I wanted to take care of the situation by myself, you wouldn't never let me. Yeah. Wouldn't never. What does that mean? She would let him. Yes. But yeah, it's a double negative there, chief, because you wouldn't let me do what I wanted to do to make you happy. And that was get rid of him. So Donna, can I do this so that way we can go on and live happy? And then maybe we can sell the house and move on somewhere else on our own. And I'm not going to be happy until that happens. He's going to find a nice retirement community with us. And the best part is we can live in 55 and over communities. Well, she's the best part. I don't know if he's allowed. I'll sneak in. It's fine. You can buy the house. I'll just, you know, no, I'll get a great wig. That's all good. Don't sweat it. Well, shit. I'm black. They don't know how old I am. Walk up and be like, I'm 63 years old. People go. Okay. It's possible. You wouldn't challenge it. No, you'll look like an asshole. You never know. Yeah, you never know. So he said, so this is, he's been, it seems like really talking about this for a long. Just come on. Let me care husband. And he's pushing the issue. Please. Yeah. Yeah. He's pushing it totally totally. And she's saying things like, I don't know, maybe if you're good, we'll stop at McDonald's on the way home. And then you can murder my husband. But only if you're good. If you listen real good. If you listen, if you're really good, well, mommy has a appointment, you can maybe kill my husband. Okay. But only if you also dig out the trash when you're home, please do that, which is, yeah, every time I wanted to take care of the situation by myself, you wouldn't never let me. That's very telling here. It's not fair. It's not fair, mom. So Donna's response, this is mid-October 2001 quote, you know you can always count on me. You always could. It'll just be a little tougher now because he gives me $100 a week for everything and then makes me write checks to keep track of it all. She's got balance to the checkbook about it. Well, then he can tell where all the money he just gives her piles of cash. He can go, you know, give it to prisoners who are fucking her and wanting to kill him. So it makes sense. Yeah. Excellent. It's a smart move. So putting this on somebody's books, you have, that you have $20 a day. You're not buying anybody's ramen noodles with this, no, no, I should be able to sponsor you for $20 a day. That's it. So I think this was in response to him needing more money also because she's saying, look, I'll help you all I can, but you know, I don't have any money now. She says quote, and I haven't been allowed in this on all caps allowed to use any of my fifty two charge cards. She brings it up. She brings this up constantly, by the way, about the charge cards, fifty two credit cards. Good Christ. That's one a week. It's wild. Yeah. She's very proud of the fact that she has fifty two charge cards that she brings it up quite often. It's, I mean, it sounds like it's an achievement that she never thought that she would get. It's like being a million mile or something, but this is not an achievement. You're not in debt if you're a million mile or you get bonus. It says, this is like fifty two people will allow me to pay them back money that I like. What the hell? Every moment is this wild with interest, but still, yeah, yeah. So I haven't been allowed to use my any of my fifty two charge cards and then dash emergency only. I'm not used to living like this. I'm used to having plenty of cash for whatever I want and buying everything I want. Maybe those days will return again soon, do whatever you want to him, ASAP. She says, do whatever you want to him, ASAP, last word, amen. Amen. She fucking amends. You can go ahead and murder my husband message. Amen. Wow. Wow. What the fuck are you doing, lady? Thank you for this. Wow. The Nate's response is even crazier to the ASAP amen bullshit here. Okay. He responds with a sketch. It's not a letter. Drawing. Yeah. A drawing of Robert's tombstone with his name on it, all that shit. And in the inscription, you know, the epitaph is rest in piss. That's his fucking, he's very creative this date. And what is, what is, what is Nate so mad about? That's what I'm wondering. He seems more pissed off than her and I don't know why. I guess because she should be able to spend as much money as she wants on him. And Nate, Nate doesn't like seeing his lady suffer, man. I guess so. She's suffering. And she's really suffering, you know. You take somebody's discover from them. Well, yeah. I swear to Christ, that's not easy, man. It's disturbing when things are happening to your mom and you can't control them. You know what I mean? That's what. What's in her mind? Not Capital One. I'll tell you that right now. Capital One and everything else, but she's not allowed to use them. Unfortunately. Yeah. She might be the last person in the country to have a diner's club. I think she does. She's got it all, man. Whatever that tell you to call it shit that he was putting in the time in club room. That's a lot, man. I don't think I've ever seen 52 commercials for credit cards. That's about all I've seen 52 of his commercials for credit cards. I never heard of anyone having 52 credit cards. Imagine anybody, somebody watched TV for six months and then said, I'll take all of them. Every card I've seen advertised, I'll take them. Local ones from a bank. I don't give a shit. I got it. I mean, there was that old trope of the 80s and late 90s of like when somebody would like unroll all their fucking credit cards. That was a joke. But it still wasn't 52. And that doesn't mean anything. Like 20 would come out. And that was like, Oh, uh-huh, 52, you wouldn't, that would touch the ground. It's for a, and go past the other person. You'd have to really raffle those up. It would take a long time. So they would have a fucking fishing reel, the roll. Yeah. So he responds, rest and piss, yeah, because he's mad because he's a little upset about some stuff. Then in late October 2001 here, he says, fuck, he said Nate says, and, and then after that, you don't ever have to worry about making no more KNOW more excuses to him because he will no longer be with us after 121001. Hey, now much more good, I mean, good God, by the way, if you're European, that's December not, right, not October, October 12th. Yeah. That means December 10th, 2001. He died on December 11th, 2001, by the way. After December 10th, he will no longer be with us, rest and piss. He may as well say, I'm going to murder a person on December 11th. Not even he'll no longer be a problem for us because he'll no longer be with us literally. The only time you say that she might as well have said, he'll be passed away by that. There's no other more obvious way to put it. Even when a company says, oh, they're no longer with us, I go, oh, that's too bad. That's too bad. Oh, I'm sorry. So sorry to hear it. Yeah. That's his wife taking the news. So he says, and then it gets worse, by the way. He says, and then it'll be me and you totally and completely. Then she goes on to say, hey, Donna, hey, Donna, hey, Donna, just think come 12 11, 01, you'll be waking up to me or maybe we'll give it a couple of days to let things look cool. And then after the funeral, baby, when I come home, I'm never leaving. And we're only doing it like that just to make it look good, meaning I would, I'd murder him and then we would fucking his blood, but you know how the police will frown upon that. So basically, I'll take a couple of days and then it's all the wagon wheel till Thursdays in for a week. Yeah. Yeah. To make it look good, all I need is for my baby, not to worry and leave everything else up to me. I got it. I got this. I am a very, very seasoned murderer, I'll take care of this. I just wrote my whole whole plan down and mailed it to you and mailed it through the jail by the way which can monitor anything anyway and even if they don't then it's in a fucking this is an address or drawer in the house of the murder scene that you gave in writing think permission to the police to search you said you need to catch that bastard yeah the the evidence is upstairs wow so if you go over this the amount of times you'll no longer have to worry about making no more excuses to him okay right there that's pretty incriminating that's pretty criminal yeah then the next thing because he'll no longer be with us that's very incriminating then he adds a date to it to really seal it in there you the sear the flavor and you know you got a you got a sear it real good and if there was a question that maybe they're going to give him a trip they're going to pay for him to leave no there's one away together of this fucking tombstone it's a sketch of that yeah that she says and will be me and you completely okay yeah maybe it's after that that's when he gets out of jail they're going to run away together then he just doubles down hey Donna just think come 12 11 you'll be waking up to me or maybe we'll let things go cool down for a couple days to look cool he says so you know this is how we're also going to trick the cops is also a bad way to put it and then he mentions the funeral then after the funeral when I come home I'm never leaving so that just in case you thought it was just we're going to run away together no no no after the funeral of who will be dead Robert who will be resting in piss resting in piss this is the I designed the tombstone for him you can put that in give that right to the fucking stone cutter and he'll make it perfectly okay then November comes along here and they're still writing things get into logistics by then oh boy he starts asking her to buy him murder supplies oh that he's going to need okay here's one from Nate to Donna late October early November 2001 okay quote well I see now you know that I'm about my business when I get out as far as our little situation so that means you're seeing I'm serious about killing your husband now I'm dead serious and you know that now and get me a size large leather gloves if you and see if you can find me a ski mask hat okay Jesus hey let me these are the murder supplies I'm going to need basically whatever OJ had get me that I'm going to need that some Bruno Molly is just all the whole deal I want everything see if you can use bronco is there abuse bronco around I'll escape in it okay so see if you can find me a ski mask hat then he says and I need them handcuffs you have and it's mandatory so get them for me because the way that I'm going to do it is going to be right okay oh boy so this is I need murder supplies and handcuffs so I can murder him and then you know to hide evidence I need some other stuff and anonymity and a way to lock a person down that is a horrifying letter them handcuffs you have that Donna already had so and I think they probably used them before it sounds like doesn't sound like she's used them for a kid nothing nope then her letter to him talking about what he what she bought him quote I also went to four stores and finally found your ski mask and boxers and a pair of beautiful fleece line black leather gloves beautiful they're lovely you're going to use a lovely isotone oh my god so then he writes back here and he says yes I'm taking care of that the next night because I told you that I'm tired of living like this when I don't have to and after that will you get me a 2002 Cadillac Deville a brand new yeah this isn't now we want to be together he's asking for a specific model and a year of a car brand new for this brand fucking new Cadillac okay he said it says Cadillac the new one on December of two you know right it's throughout already the two thousand oh it's been out for three months but it's still looking good you get it in December people go wow what is that a 2001 no this is next year's model yeah surprise doesn't want to know three yeah so he then says and even if I got a come to the house and shoot Robert in his fucking head you're going to be with me my god and all of these letters up to this this is bonkers is there a lot notary that the only way he could have incriminate himself harder any harder yeah or if he said I handed it to a garden said can you proofread this for me I'm not going to spelling like this is insanity what are you talking about in addition to the 285 letters there are also well there's a lot more but there are 18 specific recorded phone calls in their own voices that are also saved this inmate the phone inmate system it records ever all the chords all the call all the call calls automatically they're kept for at least six months afterwards does that that's got a system of flagging stuff too right it's got there has to be something like that I think it's mainly they're saved and then if anything happens they can go back and look at it that's crazy you can't monitor everybody no you can't call for six months it's not but there should be today at least there should be something monitoring it that flags when it hears certain words well I guess a lot of people on these calls are talking in code too so you wouldn't they're talking it and on top of that too you know the prisons are not going to update their phone systems you're only getting charged 485 a minute so god forbid they could actually you know what I mean it's just a scam to make fucking make this bullshit yeah you're disgusting that shit is disgusting remember what fucking our bio is doing is a shit scumbag robbing people fucking families blind terrible shit so anyway that's what's going on now the recordings are kept Nate despite knowing everything is recorded called Donna on the prison line at least 18 times that are on the record yeah openly discussing the murder he talked about he he used code oh he said the Robert situation at one point our little thing that thing he would talk about you know that thing we're gonna do you know that thing for you who do you think that yeah I did that took care of that thing for you that was people that was Pete the killer that said yeah good fellas you know what I mean I think we know what that thing was I used to do a joke about that way back in the day yeah you know what it is Pete the killer what else could it be the fuck I'll be Dylan so he this is interesting now this is October 25th 2001 yeah Nate I'll be home to you December 9th all the worries will be over baby she just kind of says okay he says the next day out I'm going to I already got it in my mind my mind made up I'm going to go ahead and do that the next day okay all right and she says quote oh I just wrote to you that I didn't think you really meant it up he says what my mind is made up my mind is made I wrote in my letters you know what I'm saying but you know I don't like to talk too much like that you don't I like to do like that yeah and write everything out in longhand but when I come home you know what I mean it's going to be full detail I'm going to let you know how I'm going to do it and everything I'm going to do it for sure the next day yeah dude like that is so incriminating and especially in his own voice it's amazing would you go before a jury it's one thing to have something written down because you can even say I didn't write that you know somebody else could have been when it's someone's own voice and you're looking at them sitting there and you know that voice comes out of their fucking head and you're hearing it that is so incriminating it's not good and and their reaction to it has got to be outstanding yeah like what as soon as you press play in court oh watching their face as those words come through it's got to be yeah so fun watch the saraboon trial yeah yeah and you when they play those videos of her with him how do you imagine with the look at that jury so you talked to me so you talked to me fucking yelling at him telling me smells fucking screaming in his face yeah then recording him in the suitcase while she's then going drunk and yelling that's my name don't wear it out while while he's dying in a suitcase begging for oxygen that's been named don't wear it out Sarah I can't breathe I can't breathe what you're choking me I can't breathe I can't breathe when you cheat on me that's what she said I can't breathe when you cheat on me that is not the same lady I'm sorry no no I mean it Sarah I'm in a samsonite yeah that's how that's how I feel my hearts in the samsonite my heart is zipped up with a combo lock and I don't know my heart's been beaten like a guru - "Rilla beats a Samsonite." - Yeah, say goes through my thoughts. - Have you seen the commercials? - Hello. - Yeah. - I'm talking to you. - Yes. Hello? That's my name, don't wear it out. - He's already dead and she's kicking the suitcase. I'm talking to you, do you remember that commercial? (laughing) Hello? Hello? - Ah, she's the worst. - So that's what that reminds me of, though, 'cause everyone in court, I didn't get to see the jury, obviously, but everyone in the court was like, yeah, like, look at her, like, oh, you're a monster. So, okay, in this conversation that is, okay, this is November 8th, Nate tells Donna that he wanted Robert to see Donna performing oral sex on Nate before he kills Robert. So now it's worse, I want you to blow me in front of him before I murder him. - I need him to see why. - I really want to be a real jerk here. - I need to tell you I'm gonna really hate him. - Even though there's no beef with them, okay. Robert doesn't even know this is happening, does he? - No idea. - No, no, no. - He's just working every day as no fucking idea. So, anyway, that's one of his plans is forced Donna to blow him in front of Robert. Well, not for sure, 'cause she'd be voluntarily blowing him. - Force Robert to watch, to watch, consensually blowing him. And before he goes away is a funny thing, too, like he's gonna leave. Then late November, 2001, there's a little debate here. They're getting a plan, but Donna's getting nervous about it. She's nervous about leaving evidence behind. So they're talking about how not to leave forensic evidence behind. - Yeah, that's a good concern. - And it's 2001, so law and order's been on for like 12 years, people are know a little more. The OJ happened in '96, that was a lesson in forensics and DNA and shit and how not to collect it. CSI is three years in by now, right? - Is it 2001, I think it's around when CSI started in 2009? - Maybe, that's possible, it's very possible, but all those shows kind of things are becoming popular. This is becoming where people know stuff. So this is late November, 2001. Okay, Nate says, you know what I'm saying? The next day after, you know what I told you I wanted to do, right? And Donna says, I'm afraid Nate, yeah. And Nate says, what you man, I don't know what that is. What you man. - I think what you mean, what you mean? - Did it type or is it? - Maybe what you mean. And this is the transcript for court. - Okay, it's probably what you mean. - Maybe, maybe, yes, somebody might have mischrived it, but then Donna says, I can't afford to lose you. I cannot lose you, like I will kill myself. - Oh. - He's a man, she told the cop she did not remember. - Right. - So Nate says, just forget about it, man. By the way, calling a 58 year old woman man is just weird to me. It's just strange. - He's calling her man. - Man, he keeps calling her. Just forget about it, man. When a person man knows what he's doing, man, that's like jinxin, man. That's what he called her man three times in four times in one sentence. - Oh. - Man. - So, jinxin, man, it's like jinxin, man. But Donna says then, but what was the story with the trunk and handcuffs? That's too involved. So they've come up with multiple scenarios. - He's like taking them away from the scene in the trunk. - Yeah. So then Nate says, just, just, just leave it alone, all right? And Donna said, it's too much involved. You're gonna leave hair. You're gonna leave prints. You're gonna, so then Nate says, leave it alone, man. Leave it alone, all right? Come on, man, this ain't Perry Mason, man. Like, it's worse. The cops now have forensics and shit. Perry Mason didn't have shit. He just had to yell at someone till they admitted it. This is crazy. - Perry Mason was a lawyer, wasn't he? - He was a lawyer who would take the case apart and then get the real murderer to admit it on the stand with all his clients. That's not this much deeper than Perry Mason. - Yeah, Perry Mason didn't have a forensics team. - Perry just yelled at people until he got the logistics right in his hand. - And this guy's like, I'll get away with it. - Obviously, Perry Mason, man, come on. Forensics and hair and shit, who cares? - Perry Mason ain't shit. So then Donna says, I don't wanna know anything about it ever. - No, don't tell me any of it. - Do what you need to do, but leave me the fuck out of it basically. - Okay. - So there's more incriminating shit. - Oh, yeah, they keep talking. - Oh, they can't stop, okay. November 24th, 2001. Nate's trying to ease Donna's anxieties about this whole thing. - Covered down. - He attempts to reassure her about DNA. By the way, now he is a forensic expert. - What, what's he gonna say? - Let's find out what Nate thinks, how Nate thinks Forensics work. The morning thinks Perry Mason deals with Forensics, so that's one thing. - First of all, he's not scared of Perry Mason. - No, that's wild. - Yeah, all right, no, I'll just get into this. Okay, November 24th, 2001. Okay. Nate says, man, we really gonna talk when I come home, okay? - Yeah. - So call her man, please, please. - He's not gonna do it. - It would be less creepy if he called her man as he was fucking her. This is creepy. So she says, okay, then Nate says, especially about our that situation, man, you know? - Yeah. - And she says, yeah. And he says, I mean, it just, you know, you get too nervous at times, that's all the deal is. You're tripping, you're nervous, you can't get away with murder or what a pussy. - Yeah, you don't think this thing that we've planned out and we haven't writing in several things, you don't think, okay, all right. She says, yeah, I know, it's part of my nature. I know, I'm the, she's the nervous grandmotherly type. What do you expect? - I'm not a murderer. - So he says, quote, and then you said DNA. The only way they can do a DNA is if they got the other persons, you know what I'm saying? So he's saying they'd have to have his DNA ready to know that it was his DNA. - Oh, he's so dumb. - He doesn't know shit. He said, if they got the person and the hair, 'cause they just, 'cause they can't just take no hair and say, this is such and such as hair, the laws that we got in the state of Ohio and the laws from everywhere else, I mean, they weigh different. - And everywhere else. - He's saying the laws of the state of Ohio are way different from everywhere else. And there they'll never be able to match up a hair forensically to him. They can, he's saying they can't just pick up a hair and go, that looks like Nate's hair and go find him. - Only way they could do a DNA. - Yeah, you see. - A DNA. - A DNA. - A DNA. His thoughts are they're never gonna know he exists. That's his thought. So how would they match it up to me? They'd need to get my shit to match it up. And if they don't know how I exist, how the fuck they're gonna get my shit to essentially? - They'd have to know that you and I talk 285 letters at a club while they're saying this honor recorded for the alcohol, literally being taped. - Under his prison ID number, right? 'Cause you've got to. - You have to sign in through your shit. - Yeah, 'cause you have accounts and all that kind of shit. So the laws that we got in the state of Ohio and the laws from everywhere else, I mean, they weigh different. - Yeah. - They weigh different. - So he's an expert in Ohio forensic law. - This guy. - And what's admissible and everything. - Why is not afraid of Perry Mason? - It's not afraid of Perry Mason. The Perry Mason tried to talk to me. I'll let them all fucking know it's up. So Donna says, really? (laughs) - Yeah. - Well, I'm going, are you a moron? She says, really? She's very easy to convince. - It's very easy and he says, hell yeah. (laughs) He says, we'll talk about it when I come home, Donna. Okay, I don't wanna talk about it over the phone. You already did. What's the fucking point? You might as well videotape the whole murder at this point. You've already talked, I don't wanna talk about it over the phone. Oh, okay, sorry. - Don't stop now. - Hang up. Wow, he's explaining forensic science. Fucking up how it works. Fucking up what the laws are. He has nothing. And he says, DNA only works if they have a sample from the person to compare it to. And if they have your hair and the laws in state of Ohio, everything's all fucked up, everything's wrong. Ohio won't let them have my hair. - No, they won't. - They'll stand in the way. - Ohio says, you cannot take a man's hair from him and then they'll want him to. That's it. December 8th, 2001. This is all post 9/11, too. You think he's crazy? - This is crazy, yeah. So much going on. - It's still small to rank, fuck. - Still on fire. - Someone was no one else distracted by that. Maybe I was a little too distracted by that, but I wasn't setting up any murder plots for at least three, four months after 9/11. It was very distracting. It doesn't even seem like he's heard yet. - No, I don't think he has. He's been in jail the whole time that it happened. He was in jail. So I think maybe they didn't tell him in there. It's like good fellows. They didn't let their hotel you. I don't shine shoes no more. I don't know if you know, they didn't go up there and tell you, but I don't shine shoes. - Those towers will stand no more. - You don't stand no more. I don't know if they went up there and they'd tell you about it, but December 8th, 2001. Day before Nate gets out. 24 hours before that here. This is the last recorded call between them. They, why? Okay. You're getting out the next day. Just shut the fuck up and wait till you're in person. Nope. One more. Yeah. And it's, it's the dumbest one of all of us here. Okay. He says, I got to do this, Donna. I got to. Okay. And she says, I don't know, kind of hems and haws. He says, just consider it a done deal. Only thing I'm gonna need is one thing. What's that? She says, what? And he says, I just need to be in that house when he come home. Oh my God, dude, it's so bad. It's so bad, so bad. All I'm gonna need is one thing. What's that? To be within inches of him. Yeah, to be able to, yeah, to be able to jump out at him in his own home unsuspectingly in the dark. That's all I need. It's gonna be fine. Wow. She says, oh no. And he says, baby, it ain't gonna happen in the house. He's trying to convince her I need to be there, but I'll get him somewhere so it won't happen because you don't want to ruin the, they're gonna live there together. Right. I mean, what are we talking about? I don't have to mop. I don't want to have blood stains on my floor when I get out of here. So she said, yeah. He says, it ain't gonna happen in the house. It ain't gonna happen in the house, man. I promise you, man. Man, he said, I just need to be in there, man. I mean, I ain't gonna jeopardize that, man. Yeah. Not that man, like Robert, I ain't gonna jeopardize that, meaning the house, Tom, a man, you, your man, Donna. And she says, well, let's not talk about it now. Right. Yeah. And he says, okay, we'll talk, we'll, I'll just wait until tomorrow. Yes, tomorrow. Tomorrow, you're getting out. And you can talk to her all you want in the privacy of an automobile when you get out of there. Okay. Now, there was another thing here, December 6, 2001, three days before he got out. This isn't a recorded call, but Donna starts prepping three days before he gets out. She drives to the wagon wheel motel in Bordman, Ohio, about 20 minutes south of Helen Township. And she reserves a room, a very specific room, the Jacuzzi suite. Oh, geez. Imagine going in the Jacuzzi at the wagon wheel motel. Huh, it's got carpet around it. Oh, you know, it does soaking wet nasty carpet. 50 year old carpet. Oh, a Jacuzzi suite, she books there and pays for it. She puts the reservation in Nathaniel Jackson's name. Yeah. So he, it's his name. Okay. And this is three days before he gets out. So obviously he didn't go there and pay for it. She did. Okay. December 9th, 2001, it's get out day. Oh boy. Nathaniel is released from prison in Grafton, Ohio, about 90 miles northwest of Youngstown. Right. Donna Roberts takes her car. It's about an hour and a half trip to pick him up. She picks him up and broad daylight. I mean, not hiding anything here. Nope. She drives him back down to the area here. She tells police that she dropped him off at a house on Wert street, W-I-R-T street, Wert street, which is a real street on the south side of Youngstown that Roberts car was found through. Walks away from as a matter of fact. This is where Nate's friends live. But she tells the cops, I just dropped him off and went home. But that's not a lie. They went to the wagon wheel motels Jacuzzi suite on December 9th and had all sorts of disgusting, wow. You know, a big man on senior citizen Jacuzzi sex. Yeah. Oh, which is good for her because it'll keep all of her hips and all of her sore muscles in place, you know. That's good. Yeah, the jets on the muscles are probably there. Yeah. So they spent the night together, all of that shit. So obviously she was lying to the cops about everything there. Then December 10th, 2001, the day before the murder, day after he gets out, they make all sorts of public appearances together. Really? They're just going around everywhere together. And they stand out because they are. It's not that they're an interracial couple. That's fine. They're 30 years apart from each other. They don't look like they're in a young black man. They don't look like they go together. Yeah. It would be like if I was walking around with like a 12 year old Asian girl, you go, what's your connection to this kid? Yeah. And they'd arrest me when it would be rightfully so. It's just weird. So anyway, it's a strange thing here. She says that this is the, oh, yes, I forgot about him. Just keep remembering. Oh, yeah, him. Oh, yeah. So she's seen here two days before the murder at a Greyhound bus terminal there, seen kissing and talking with another man right near the terminal before Robert arrived for work. That's on the 10th. At his job. At his job, where they own and all the employees know that, why would she think that this is like so blatant, openly making out outside of a bus station, which number one is disgusting. It's trash. That's trash. Making out of a bus station, that's either I don't know if I'm ever going to see you again or oh, my God, I can't believe this. I thought I'd never see you again. Yeah. It's like, man, you get modern maturity magazine. You don't do this. This is, this is not modern or mature what you're doing right now. This is wrong. So they also the same day over her Donna asked Robert for $3,000, which she refused and that was the day she gave Robert the dirty look and was like trembling and so mad. Right. December 11th is the day of the murder. Yeah. We'll run down late morning, early evening. Donna and Nate continued to be seen around together from the, you know, carrying over from the day before witnesses spot them at various spots throughout town during the day, 4 30 PM Greyhound bus driver Jim McCoy sees Robert working the terminal McCoy leaves later on. He drives his bus to the Warren terminal sees Donna and Nathaniel together and said, Nathaniel said to him that we are trying to get out of here about six PM Donna and Nate go to the Red Lobster in Niles, Ohio, shrimp fest is back everybody. Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. The waitress at the Red Lobster will identify both of them. She said, yeah, it was the only old white lady young black man couple I had the whole night. Really easy to remember. Really all week. You know, I can't remember the last one to be honest. I don't remember the last one to be honest. It's like I can't even think of a business meeting. They're not in the same, it's a strange thing. So Red Lobster they pay their bill at 643 PM and leave. There is a and they keep the Donna keeps the receipt. She's nice, but she keeps she's a bookkeeper. That's what she does. Yeah. About 9 a.m. Robert or 9 p.m. I'm sorry. Robert tells the on duty security guard at the Youngstown bus terminal that he's leaving for the evening. He says, I'm going home. Yeah. I'm out of there. So he takes off about 9 30 p.m. a neighbor who lives on an old state route 82, which is the road near Donna and Robert's house, observes Donna driving her car very slowly past the house alone with no other traffic on the road. Just creeping, checking on it, which is very weird, a case in the joint here. So their own joint, her own joint, and they think that maybe she was waiting for some kind of signal from Nate or just, or just scoping it out because she's curious and stupid. Then 9 45 PM through 11 44 PM. Here we go. Now we have cell phone records, poll from the carriers showing that during this two hour window between 9 45 PM and 11 44 PM, Donna Roberts's two cell phones were calling each other almost constantly. Oh, really? She's got two phones, yeah. One cell phone was with Donna in her car. The other cell phone was the one that she, Nate quote, borrowed from her. That's the one that she's public about here. So there we're going back and forth, back and forth. So Donna had lied about that to the cops. He said, Oh, I don't know. Nate just must have borrowed my phone. Meanwhile, she was in contact with him over and over and over and over again for a two hour period. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She said she just went shopping that night. They said, Well, what'd you shop for? She said, quote, just normal shopping. What? Food, shirts, fucking, what are you shopping for? Yeah. I don't know what that means. The cell tower data though says that Donna and Nate were in two different locations, both moving, calling each other every few minutes for two straight hours over the time when Robert was being murdered in the kitchen. Wow. He's like calling me like, yeah, he's not here yet. He's not here yet. Oh shit. Here it comes. I'll call you back when I'm done murdering him. His car's coming into the garage now and then click. I don't know. Or maybe he's in the garage now. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe he called her to let her listen to the murder. Oh, gross. That's possible, too. We don't know. We'll never know. Approximately 11.33 p.m. Donna shows up at the days in and boredman all by herself. She paces around the lobby. The staff remembered her weird, antsy demeanor and then reserves a room for a week as when she reserves a room for a week. Books and pays for the hotel for seven days, time stamp of 1133 p.m. Oh, so okay, the days in is about 20 minutes south, by the way. Later on, Nate's fingerprints will be lifted from all over the inside of this hotel room. And so it's interesting. So it's weird that it's strange. Then after she books the room at 1133 p.m., she drives a 20 minutes back to her house. And by 1201, she's found Robert and is on the phone with 911. Oh, so that's the timeline. She came from a days in, reserving a room for a week right to her house to find the body. And she was talking. Yeah, that's interesting times. Then the police learned that holy shit, Robert's got $550,000 of life insurance that goes right to fucking Donna. Uh-oh. Because at first they're like, yeah, there's motivation, but he doesn't seem to be real on top of her about like affairs and shit. It seems like if she wants to have an affair, she can have one. She's allowed. Yeah. Or whatever, but you know, wanting to be with a guy is a motivation, but it's, you know, so add $550,000 to make a new start with. Now you're talking about a whole different thing now. A man's dead and you are gifted over half a million dollars. That's yeah. Oh, we that's a lot. So then at 338 a.m. is the Phantom phone call also. The police are still there. The body had been removed, but you know, they're still doing crime scene shit. Monroe picked up the pause on the other end. Then the hang up and that was Donna's cell phone. So they were like, what the fuck? So she's at her brother's house allegedly sleeping. Oh, so they were like, who's calling Donna's house at 338 in the morning while they're there processing the murder scene. Then they decide, hey, that day's in. Since they were there for a few days and we know Nate was there because his fingerprints are everywhere. Let's search all around that shit just in case. Just just really go through with a fine tooth comb. What they find is they go out in the dumpster and find a treasure trove here. Okay. They get number one is fingerprints from the inside of the room, which we know about also recovered a garbage bag in the dumpster at the motel that came from the room. The bag contains a bottle of peroxide, used bandages and gauze with blood all over them. Right. What? That we'll find out later as consistent with Nate Jackson's DNA. Well, happened Nate bandages soaked in his own blood that would be matched to him with a frequency of one and 45 quadillion quintillion. Sorry. That's five billion trillion. What what is that? Five times that. Yeah. Billion billion or I'm sorry, a million trillion or million billion trillion quadrillion quintillion quintillion. That's too many. That's too many. It's unfathomable. It's so much unfathomable. Yeah. I mean, you could the planet will be around for 10,000 more years and not many people will not live on it. That's a thousand trillion, right? That's 10,000 trillion. Yeah. I was going to say that's a price. That would be a crazy number. That would be what a quadrillion is. Yeah. This is a quintillion. So they also do testing on Robert's car that they found in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. To determine that the blood on the visor contains a mixture consistent with both Robert Fingerhot and Nate Jackson's DNAs. Now their bloods are intermixed in the same place, which means you were there. That's not good. You're both bleeding at the same time together. Together on top of each other, blood recovered from the trunk release of the car indicated a DNA mixture with a major profile consistent with Nate and a minor profile consistent with Robert not some mostly his blood, meaning he's bleeding. He's bleeding. And Rob's blood is in it and he touched something that he touched. He touched the trunk release. Oh boy. So December 20th, no one's in handcuffs yet somehow, but they're trying to see here because Donna is insisting. I don't know what you're talking about. So they're going to see, okay, Donna, you know what you're talking about. Maybe we can kind of bust them both at the same time. Yeah. They decided here that she was a witness or that she's a suspect. Obviously they have the phone records letters, all this type of shit. So they say, okay, basically this is either you're going to get a confession or a denial that looks worse. So they asked Donna, will you do something for us, the police? Because we want to catch who murdered your husband. We are suspecting that guy Nate going out with. So will you do something call Nate and we'll record it and try to get him to say incriminating shit. Now imagine the thoughts dancing in her fucking head when you're asked that. Fuck, okay, I got to call him. I'm trying to save my own ass, but at the same time, I don't really want to incriminate him because then he can incriminate me. All right. This is a lot of stone and casino trying to call her friend and corroborate the salad. Yeah, yeah. And then at the same totally and then at the same fucking time, from all this, like this is just a lot like she's trying to she's trying to do this and at the same time, she's got to be thinking how are they not they searched everything? Have they read all the letters? Right. That's not good. She's got to be thinking that she's got to know that they know her too. That's what I mean. It's crazy. So they're like, what the fuck? So they use a controlled call. Get the suspect on the line. Try to get them to incriminate themselves. She agrees because she has no choice. So they give her a list of specific questions. They want them to ask they want her to ask Nate. Basically of what happened that night? Tell me specifics of what happened. Oh shit. I want to know about it. Basically now it's tip him off that cops are on the phone exactly. But he's going to say fuck you mean, baby. Yeah. Talk about shit that they've probably discussed in detail sometime in the previous nine days. Yeah. So that's what's crazy. So although I don't know how much he's she's been able to talk to him because there's, you know, they're trying to hide it. He's not going he's going to know though. He's going to know. Well, yeah, they donna the way they put it. The police said that Donna quote failed to ask Jackson the critical questions that police had instructed her to ask. Yeah, she just didn't do it. She can't do it. Yeah, she fed him softball questions and they said she was basically covering for him and also saying shit that kind of was coded. Not blatantly, but almost like if he had any inkling that the cops might be there, she was trying to kind of be like tipping him off about it not to talk. Well, that's a fucked situation because if she asked him those questions that they want her to ask, he's going to be like, what are you talking about? You know what happened? You're we both we killed him. Yeah. What the fuck? And it's going to discriminate her too. That's why she can't ask the questions. Exactly. That's I mean, she's in a shit mess. This is so fucked. She's so fucked. Imagine her heart beating. Oh, sure. I'll call him and you're calling and this is like being in the principal's office and selling them to call your mom at work. It's this is worse though. Yeah. Yeah. Because she's going to shit her pants. It's just going to be pissed. It's very soon anyway. She'll be shit in her pants soon anyway, but it could happen from this now. December 21st, 2001. Yeah. Donna is at home at that murder house at this point. Yeah. 10 days after cops come up and arrest her. Yeah. They arrest her for murder. They said she doesn't resist or even seem surprised. Yeah. What what do you mean? She's like. Yeah. What took you so long when she started dragging the cigarette? I wrote it down. I'm sorry, guy. I fucked up. Um, Robert Sun Michael said when my father was murdered, we didn't even know about it until after he'd been buried. What? Tell and I'm sorry. The cops should fucking tell them too. If the cops suspect, if the cops suspect that yeah, they got to talk to the rest. No, next of kin besides the person you think murdered him. Yeah, these people, right. They weren't notified that he was even dead. Nevermind at a funeral. Yeah. If you've got a suspicion, I guess you tell somebody and that they, when they coordinate the, the funeral or however you're going to dispose of the remains, you, you probably assume they're going to tell everybody they can to make themselves look less guilty. I guess. But also you think the cops would want to talk to Michael. Yeah. What's the background on this relationship? Yeah. Yeah. Like who the fuck wouldn't call the son to find out, especially when it first happened. You'd want to talk to everybody close to him and find out what's up. You think the son would be one of the people. Does he have any business associates he doesn't like? He's been talking about. Look, your mom does Donna suspicious. Yeah. Do you have any honor? Right. Exactly. Do you have any suspicions about Donna? Do you think that she's this or whatever the fuck, but they don't even talk to him? That's fascinating. He said when my father was murdered, we didn't even know about it till after he was buried. She put him in a pine box. Didn't even give him a good funeral. No, she wants to keep all the money. It's not $550 grand in insurance. Yeah. That's what she's doing. When the detective said your dad's dad, my first thought was Donna. Uh-huh. Okay. So Nate is arrested as well. Wow. They raided the Wirt Street house, a house where his friends lived where he was hiding out. And he had a bandage wrapped around his left index finger, which was obviously injured. Yeah. Okay. Now they find inside this house a piece of a black leather glove. Okay. Um, no. There was a piece of the glove they'd find in the house. They found the gloves, but the index finger of the left glove had been torn off and there was a red substance, it was blood near the tear, so it had been torn off like that. That's how his finger got hurt. It probably was the one that was in the trigger and it probably got wrapped up in an argument or in the fight and in the scuffles. Very possible. It's on his left hand. I don't know if he's left hand or not or whatever it is, but that's possible because there had to be something that could cause that kind of thing. We'll get to it though. It gets weirder here. This isn't good. She had written about the gloves and now they found the gloves, fleece line black gloves, the same one she bought, the very beautiful as she put it, beautiful fleece gloves, fleece line gloves. Not good. So a ski mask hat also, they said it's never been recovered any ski mask. Now the handcuffs are mentioned in the letters, but they don't appear to have been used during the actual murder. They couldn't find any marks on the wrists or anything like that. Probably because Robert fought back too hard for the handcuffs plan to work. He probably thought he'd pop up, put the gun on him and said, you know, and he would actually just get arrested. Yeah, put your hands behind your back and I'm going to cuff you and Robert said, we're in my garage. It's not a cop. I'm fighting you. Fuck you. So they also have the receipt that Donum mailed to him in prison because he has the receipt for the gloves. They also found a pair of sneakers that match size and shred pattern perfectly to the footprints in the house in the blood. Oh, no. Remember those footprints? Yeah. That's not good. So they bring Nate in and sit him down. Okay, Nate, you've been out of jail 12 days, you fucking idiot. Less than a fortnight, man. How did you do it? You've already banged an old lady and killed a guy. It's been a busy week for you. You've been a jacuzzi tub. Yeah, and 50, 50, whatever's not an old lady, but when you're 27, anybody over 35 is an old lady. It's fast, what do you mean? Yeah. Anybody over 40 is like ancient when you're in your 20's. Certainly. I thought. Yeah. So during Nate's interrogation here, he said that he and Robert had known each other for a couple of years. His first words when they sat him down was quote, I just didn't mean to do it, man. Oh boy. That's not good. No. Do what, man. Yeah. Yeah. I just didn't mean to do it. He kept saying that. Just didn't mean to do it, man. Just didn't mean to do it. They said so you knew Robert. He said, yeah, we knew each other for a couple of years and they said, well, when's the last time you saw him? And he said, the day he got killed on the 11, but earlier in the day, I didn't do, I didn't see him wait. No, no, earlier than that, I sold him some weed earlier that day. Oh. So it's like, you got out of jail on the 9th and by the 11th, you had a fucking, you've already got enough weed to sell like you've already gathered up, you know, a distribution amount of weed here. What's going on? He said that Robert had given him a ride back to Robert's own house. So Nate could quote, chill before he started a job at the bus terminal the next day. Okay. Now, like we said, Robert is known to hire ex-convicts. True. Yeah. And everyone knows that. So that's Nate's story is I was hanging out with Robert because he was going to hire me. So he brought me to his own house to chill. To chill. To chill. Well, you know, wait for the next day. And he said, once they got inside, Robert started yelling at him and throwing racial slurs at him like crazy. Wouldn't stop dropping the N word on him. Called me lazy. Yeah. Yeah. Amongst other things. Yeah. But you know, amongst other letters. And this, by the way, goes everybody says Robert's never used a racial slur in his life because he's not. His son said he's the least prejudice person you're ever going to meet. That's not what he's about. He's the opposite way. He goes the opposite way, tries to take people in basically, you know, whatever. So and also a bunch of other disparaging things. He said, then Robert pulled a revolver on him. Oh, it's not enough that I call you the N word. I need to point a gun in your face too. So he pulled a revolver on him and he said there was a struggle for the revolver. And that's how Nate's finger got fucked up. He got shot in the finger during the struggle. Oh, yeah. So Nate said he wrestled the gun away from Robert and Nate shot Robert twice during the tussle as he put it though he wasn't sure where and he wasn't sure where he shot Robert and he didn't and whether he didn't know whether Robert was still breathing when Nate ran out and took Robert's car and took off. I mean, you shoot so many times of the head. You know they're not breathing. Nope. That's a bad story. Only shot him twice and shot him three times and where did the second gun come from? Right. That's the other thing. Yeah. What was your gun? Yeah. That means you brought a gun as a guy that just got out of prison. Yep. You had a firearm after you've been down for a felony. So that's not any we're selling weed with a firearm too, which is even more charges. So I would like to say I did not murder a man, but I caught up and I was selling weed and I was selling weed because I did have a gun. Yeah. It wasn't his house. But he said he was still breathing when he left, which probably is not true judging by the shot to the head. Yeah. There's no way. So yeah, this is the the finger that's fucked up as the missing glove, yeah, finger. It's all in there and the glove has the blizz blood and it all matches up there. So what's wrong with Nate's story here? Well, number one, three shots, not twice, okay? Second, the bullets were fired from a different gun than the 38 found by the body. That was a fully loaded revolver found next to Robert's body. So Robert never pulled a revolver or even if he did, he certainly had a chance to use it. Exactly. Third, how would Robert have shot Nate in the finger with a gun that was found un-fired? Right. How does that work? The bullet that hit Nate's finger probably came from the same gun that killed Robert, meaning it was Nate's own gun. Nate either accidentally shot himself during the assault or shot through the glove while attacking Robert. That's probably true. That's very easily could have if he's wrestling around with it and, yeah, also Nate had spent the previous three months writing letters and saying he was going to murder Robert as soon as he got out. So that's not one that's not good here and, yeah, and why does a ski, why would he need a ski mask? That makes no sense. Right. What do you need that if you're about to murder a man? Yeah, it's, and also the saying he had approached Robert about getting a job at the Youngstown bus terminal. Yeah. And they're saying, well, we know that he hires recently released felons, but he's going to ask his girlfriend's husband for a job. That seems risky. Yeah. That seems very odd. And bring a gun to do it and bring a gun to do it, just in case the interview, I've never had an interview go that bad for a job or had to fucking, I had to pull steel at the end of that shit and be like, what's up, mother, no, I'm backing out. You fucking say where you're sitting. I'm backing out of here. Seven 25 and hour. And I have fucking failed plenty of interviews. I'm not going any lower, bitch, no, no, I will not clean the fucking, the oil that we fried shit at. No, that's where I draw the line. So Nate is asked at this point, hey, this is itself defense and Nate's like absolutely total self defense. And they said, do us a favor. We're going to videotape it. I'd like you to, this is just audio recorded. Yeah. You'd like to do a videotape, okay? You should let us know what's going on. Let's do it again. Yeah. Nate pauses and said that, now I'm through talking, I'm done. And then said, this is amazing, I don't have time to just keep going over this over and over. I don't have time, where the fuck do you have to be? You just confess to killing a man, whether in self defense or not, you're going to be here for quite a while. I got to schedule. What a porn. Yeah. Um, so this is interesting. Now this is from the newspaper, they say in the midst of a long and rambling statement on videotape, Jackson says, quote, I talked to a lawyer or something. Then later says, we, we just sum it up like I said, man, when, when I talk to my lawyer, man, you're going to know what I'm saying. Okay. So that's what he says. Now, under the fifth amendment, though, you must clearly ask for, you can't just mention the word lawyer. It's all the time where people try to get out of statements by saying, I said, maybe I need a lawyer. Right. Well, that's not that I won't answer questions without my lawyer. Yeah. I want a lawyer. You have to say not answering any more questions. It has to be very clear. So the officers just continue to ask questions and he continued to answer them and looking, making himself look incredibly guilty. Now you have two people that look real fucking guilty at this point. Very bad. Nate is, they're going to have both go to trial, by the way. Oh. Which is crazy. And neither of them are talking. Neither of them are flipping on each other, neither of them are making a deal. They say they have enough evidence where they don't want to make a deal with either one of them. We don't need a deal unless you want to just plead guilty to everything and get the maximum. We're not making any deal with you. Right. If you just want to get life in prison, we'll take the death penalty out the table. Then go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. But they don't want to do that because they want the death penalty on the table. They do. They do. And Nate is, both of them are charged with two counts of aggravated murder here. Both counts contain two death-specific specifications pursuant to the law here. One charging aggravated murder during the commission of an aggravated burglary, one charging aggravated murder during the commission of an aggravated robbery. Took the car. Death penalty shit and plain and simple. So the state's strategy at trial for Nate. Nate's trial is first is show the letters because with him they have DNA that he was there, they have everything. So he can't believe they got the DNA. It's shocking. Show the letters. Let them hear all the jail recordings. Let them watch the video tape. Let them listen to the confession from the interrogation, present DNA, show them fingerprint evidence. It's like every form of evidence from like the beginning of time until, you know, modern times. They have everything from witnesses showing where they were to DNA, placing them within a quintillion of what the fuck, you know, of people there. So here's a confession of a man saying he's going to murder, that he murdered a man. And here's a letter from the day before saying he's going to go murder this man. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it so we can be together. Oh, what? So they also present Donna's statements saying that she barely remembered him and all that kind of shit. So they said this is bullshit and the prosecution says that Nate in writing says he was going to come to the house and shoot Robert in the fucking head in writing. He said that. And then he came to the house and guess what he did. He shot that man in the fucking head in the fucking head. The defense is just self defense. That's what they say. They put out in the videotape statement. They argue that Nate's, you know, whole shit here while it doesn't look good, the letters that he was sending from jail, they don't look great. But they're just the venting of a frustrated lover. They don't actually represent a plan. They're just wishful thinking. It's a man that's just frustrated, James. Never mind the fact that the plan actually happened and he's covered in DNA. That doesn't matter. Calm down. He's a very frustrated man lover, not man, lover, frustrated lover. They argue that the planning conversations were mostly Donna's idea. And Nate was more or less going along the status fire, which if you listen to the recordings, it's kind of the opposite. She seems involved, but he seems like, yo, I can't wait to do this. And she's like not wanting to talk about it on the phone. It's cool. Maybe just calm down. So they emphasized that Nate was the one who got physically wounded, the finger injury. And at the timing of the killing rather than at some remote location with the trunk and handcuffs suggests the plan wasn't the plan. And Nate was just reacting in the moment. They said they may have made all these plans, but that's not the plan that came to fruition. They didn't say I'm going to get shot in the finger and then I'm going to shoot this guy. Run away. That's not the plan. So it's obvious. Nate's response says, who fucking cares? Yeah. Sometimes plans get fucked up letters, DNA mixed together, intermingling shut the fuck up. They said, even if you believe every word of the defense, believe him. They said, go ahead, believe every word that the original plan changed and there was a struggle in the house. Nate still came into Robert's home, yes. The husband of the woman he's having an affair with armed while Robert was not home and waited for him to come home. He was lying in wait for a man to come in the goddamn door. They said that by himself with the gun, with the gloves, with the letters. That's aggravated burglary right there. If no one dies, they said, you know, and killing Robert in the course of an aggravated burglary is felony murder, felony murder with prior calculation and designed as a capital aggravated murder. Ooh. This is a death penalty case and fuck him is what they say. So that's what they present, all of the evidence that we just told you. The verdict comes in here. He is found guilty of aggravated murder with both death penalty specifications, everything. Just cleared the boards there. During sentencing, it doesn't help much either, not a lot of mitigating here. They say, you may fuck off death penalty for Nate. They give him the death penalty. Now they bring Donna up. Very few women in their late 50s get sentenced to death. True. This just doesn't happen. We generally as a society don't look at a woman with, you know, beginning stages of osteoporosis and say, she's a threat to society forever. We need to kill her. That's an activity. Yeah, this lady, this lady writes down whatever Jamie Lee Curtis tells her makes her poop better. She's like, what's that? That's, that's a lot. Say again, Jamie. Say again, because men get late. Yeah, post-menopause, I got to tell you really, so Donna's trial, exact same charges, everything's the same. She's going to trial. She has for a change of venue because of not only all the publicity from the case, but then Nate's trial just happened there too. So anyone who didn't hear about it before, they certainly know about it now. And the judge goes, I don't think so. I think we're good here. I think we'll hang. Yeah. And it's, by the way, the same judge that did Nate's case. So we know what his predilection is for here. Yeah. Okay. First of all, how crazy is Donna? Let's find out how crazy Donna is. All right. This is Michael. Michael Fingerhut. It's son. Yes, son. Yeah. Michael Finger's over here. They call him in the mob. So Michael Finger's here. Robert's son. This poor guy. Jesus Christ. He didn't even know if that's horrible. He didn't even get to lay his father to rest. It's so fucked. He didn't even get to see him go on the ground. He didn't get to put him in a decent coffin. Like, didn't even know until he was dead. Yeah. Wow. He said that Donna Roberts was, quote, evil and manipulative. He said, during the trial, he was there. Donna talked to him, turned around and talked to Michael and pointed out the news media in the courtroom, looked at Robert, not only the news media, but everybody else that was in the courtroom and the whole gallery, looked at Robert's son, Michael and said, they're all here for me, Michael. Yeah. That like to support me. She put it. They're all here to support me. Why don't you? So Michael said that he looked at her and said, they're all here for me. That's what all these people are here for. The victim, not you stupid, because she's like all these people here to watch, they're all here for me. No. They're here to make sure you go to jail forever, the fucking idiot. But that's how crazy she is. She looked to the victim's son and said, they're all here for me, Michael. What kind of a sick lunatic says that? The lunatic's a cystic humaniac. And he hates. He said, I've known her for 40 fucking years. She's a psychopath. I know her. She's nuts. He said in like 2020. She's like, she's a fucking whack job. So there's also a motion to suppress the evidence, because she said it was okay to search. She argues that the police exceeded the scope of her consent to search the home during the investigation of the murder and that the trial court aired in failing to suppress her letters to Jackson, which she wanted suppressed and they're not here. They're doing that. They were originally let in. And she's appealing that thing, the pre-trial. Yeah. I don't want the conversation between me and a convicted murderer in my trial. I mean, that sounds bad, right? She contends that a reasonable person would have believed that the police would be searching her house, but not a vehicle in the garage that was not at her home at the time of the offense. So that car, she's saying that car wasn't even there when the murder happened. She drove up later. So why would the cops search that car during a search of the property? Because it's here now. And that's where they found the bag, which is, I got to give her a lawyer credit. It's a clever attempt. It's a good thing. Yeah. It's something. It's better than just it's not fair. It's something. But they said, I don't think so. That's ridiculous. The state presents several witnesses who testify that Donna clearly and directly gave police open-ended consent to search the premises. I don't care. Get that bastard that killed my robberies, which he said, then signed all the paperwork. She didn't know they were going to do it. She did not expect them to get in that car. No. Fuck no. Yeah. Search my house. It's not in there anyway. Several officers testified that they heard, do whatever you have to do to catch the bastard. All sorts of, another detective said, she heard her say, I don't care what you have to do. I want you to get the person that did this to my robber. To my robber. Quote, whatever you have to do, search the whole place. Just find the guy. This doesn't sound like she's limiting their search in any way, so search here but not there. And also, he further testified that Donna gave him permission to look anywhere on the property to find clues to her murder, who murdered her husband. Robert's brother also testified. He said that his sister, oh, I'm sorry, Donna's brother, Robert's is brother, not Robert's brother. God, that's confusing. You have no idea what the case was supposed to put you guys into the nightmare. Her brother testified stating that his sister was very cooperative with police and did not rebuff them in any way. According to the brother, when police told her they wanted to search through the house for clues, by the way, he thinks he's helping her by saying, oh, she was cooperative with the police. And they said, well, what did she say to police? And the brother said, she said, do what you got to do. So even her own brother, fucks her there. She said, go ahead and search everything. I mean, yeah, she said, just do what you got to do really. I mean, tear it apart. If there's a bag with anybody's name on it, look in it, read everything, please. So, they're a particular one, her excuse for the ASAPA men letter here. Hoof, she, good God, do whatever it's a lot. So, the defense team tried to argue that this passage was figurative. Oh. This wasn't literally. No? It was, it was venting, hyperbole, they said. It's all, so I'll just silly the kind of thing anybody might say about an annoying ex. Yeah. Yeah, murder him ASAP, is that amen? For, yeah. So, the defense, it's their turn. And they pull a Corey Richards' Laurie Valo, they call zero witnesses, defense fucking rests. Who are they going to, who are they going to call? You didn't, you didn't prove nothing. Nope. And that's what they tried to do. As you call Donna, you got nobody to talk to, even her own brother's, fuck her, told her, told the truth. So, they put on no, no defense, no case, no art. I mean, they do cross examination. Everybody don't get me wrong, but they don't present any case. Nope. They don't call any experts. They don't put Donna on the stand. And it goes to the verdict. It goes to the jury. What are they going to say here, you think? You already mean? Yeah. They find her fucking guilty of everything. Yeah. All the charges. Sensing comes along and there is all the aggravating factors that they put forth, which are too numerous to list off here. And I won't even bother listing them. You guys understand what's going on. That, yeah. Then there's the mitigation part of the hearing. What do they get? If you don't know, that's her turn to come out and say, I'm such a great person that you don't want to kill me. You don't kill me. In society, please don't kill me. She says, I'm not given a fucking thing of mitigation. Fuck you people. What? Yeah. She says, I want the death penalty, eat shit. That's what she tells them, essentially. Oh, she's trying to challenge him. She told the, I don't want the lawyers. She told her lawyers and the court. I don't want them putting anything on that might convince the jury not to kill me. I don't want any mitigation. So the trial court has to hold a competency hearing to make sure she's not nuts when she gets this. They want to make sure she understands what she's doing. The judge explains the purpose of mitigating and the consequences of waving it. It's all the prosecutions shit at that point. The trial counsel describes for the judge what evidence could be presented, if Donna allowed. This is what we have. Her family, people who love her saying she's a nice person, all this shit. She can sit there. They can dress her in a grandmotherly outfit, say all sorts of nice things about her. She bakes cookies and all that shit. No one's going to kill her. What do I mean? Yeah. The counsel also notes for the record, they personally and professionally disagree with Donna's decision to waive her right to mitigation, but they believe she's mentally competent to make it. It's her right. So they bring in a psychiatrist, Dr. Thomas ebrily, and he evaluates Donna. He concludes that Donna's decision to forego mitigation was rationally made. Might not be a rational decision, but it was made with rational thought. Sure. He finds no psychiatric or psychological abnormality that would impair her capacity to make the decision. She's competent, knows what she's doing. The court has to allow it. Uh huh. The judge asked her directly, do you understand that by waiving the presentation of mitigating evidence, this jury has very little to go on in coming up with anything other than the death penalty? You get that, right? She said, quote, that is what I hope for. I know what I'm doing, and I know why. Thank you for asking. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. I love the little, thank you for asking. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm good. I don't want any soda, but thank you for asking. That's hilarious. I appreciate your offer. I'll take the murder please. Wow. There is an unsworn statement she'd like to make. Yeah. Okay. She, most of the time, this would be to ask for remorse. Show remorse, ask for mercy, do all that kind of shit, even to talk to her family, to their family and say, they're sorry, whatever the fuck it is, Donna uses her, wow, uses her unsworn statement to speak for over an hour. What? Which is a long time. Headline set. Headline set in court. This is fucking amazing. Now, during her hour long speech, she presents nothing of any mitigating evidence, spends the time complaining about the media coverage, how people have treated her, and just basically she's trying to write all the social wrong, she believes have happened to her over the course of this. She spent time criticizing the news media coverage, criticizing the jurors, who, by the way, is their decision to decide, I mean, the judge eventually has to agree with them, but they're going to recommend a second over here, are you lady? He called, she called them young and experienced people who don't read newspapers or watch the news outstanding. She said they're a bunch of dummies and they're too young. Like your boyfriend reads the news or newspapers, he's, and it's 20s, he's talking about, yeah, these people are older than him, right? Yeah, we're going to, we got a jury of your boyfriend's peers here for you. That's what, what are we talking about? That's a jury of his peers, not yours because, you know, they don't have a hard time staying awake for the whole thing, honestly, they need a little nap during the day. They're home watching Paramason. It's a Paramason's on, that's what's going on. So she also, in addition to shit talking the jurors, which I've never seen before, in this situation, usually they leave the jury out of it, then also frequently referred to her wealth, kept making, bringing up her well, talking about how she had 52 charge cards, and she had all this money, like, she's just like doing everything to make the jury possibly hate her. Let me talk, let me show you how rich I am. Let me call you young and experienced morons. Let me talk shit about everybody. She brought up 52 charge cards. She did. She did. This is her. Please don't kill me. I'm rich. And bitch. Wow. Yeah. She also used the time to berate one of the prosecution witnesses, Frank Reynolds, who's a bus terminal employee, who saw her with Nate and overheard him, overheard her ask Robert for $3,000 on February 10. She took offense at his testimony about her social standing. That's what she was mad at, how dare you act like I don't have access to $3,000. I'm wealthy. I have 52 charge cards. I don't need his $3,000. Frank Reynolds is Davido's character name, and it's always, yeah, it's always sunny. Absolutely. Well, he works at a bus station in Youngstown. That's fucking hilarious. So then she tells the jury this, quote, "I will not provide any mitigating evidence." I will not. You are bound by law to give me one sentence, the death penalty. You have no other choice. That is what I'm asking you to do because that is the right thing to do. And then she sits down by law, by law. The judge. Yeah. Wow. I mean, this judge, the judge noted in a sentencing that he also detected self promotion in her hour-long statement to jurors. She thought this was like, this is like fucking TikTok for her. Like she's gonna, this is Instagram. What did I got? She's gonna throw her weight around this from 52 charge cart. 52. She said also that she frequently referred to her wealth. One witness. Wow. Also, the judge said that you berated a witness for just being a witness. They just saw something and you berated him for it. And he also says it seems these mixed, mischaracterizations of her social status were more upsetting to Robert's than the guilty verdict against her for complicity to commit murder. You, man, may fuck off and death penalty for you to enjoy it. There you go. She's the first woman to be sentenced to death in Shrumbl County in modern history, whatever the fuck that means. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So her and Nate both go in a death row. Wow. Now in prison, he was at the Mansfield Correctional Institute, later the Chilacoth Correctional Institute. She was sent to the Ohio Reformatory for Women in Mary'sville, Ohio. And they're never allowed to communicate after that. They never saw each other hurt from each other again. Now she appeals, okay. Now they can, they affirm her convictions for aggravated murder, aggravated burglary and aggravated robbery here, but they're saying her own defense lawyer would explain to the Ohio Supreme Court later, later that Donna had a martyr complex. She's a martyr. She's one of these. They said that the Lantern, the student newspaper at Ohio State would report that Donna told the court she wanted the death penalty as a matter of racial parity as a moon, as a means of proving racial injustice because as a white Jewish woman converted, as a white Jewish woman, she expected the same punishment as her black accomplice, as my young black accomplice. That's right. I should get the same thing. All right. And you can choose me to do that if you'd like. Yeah. They ordered that. the trial judge on remand to afford Roberts her right to allocate and to personally review and evaluate evidence way aggravating circumstances against any relevant mitigating sentences or circumstances and evidence anew the determine the anew the appropriateness of the death penalty and they find that they overturn the death penalty really they overturn the death penalty on her saying that there wasn't the jury didn't get to properly weigh aggravating and mitigating but then anybody could just do that and get the sentence overturned that's the point if you that's crazy she didn't want to mitigate shit she said that she went up there and made an ass all out of herself instead well because she did it because she had a martyr complex at the time she wanted to show that white Jewish ladies can go to jail same as black guys can get the needle to same as black guys 2007 she's the only woman on Ohio's death row by the way just hanging out um she's out loud out of her cell from 8 a.m. to 11 a.m. and then from 4 30 to 5 30 which is actually more than most most death row yeah what out 23 hours lockdown that's right she remained on death row even after the court vacated her sentence in order to new sentencing um they say that uh get they said now all of a sudden too she's saying that she had mental problems and this is mitigating circumstances now she puts in court documents and hearings comments about how she was sexually abused by a cousin and lived in a very very abusive home on a farm and later suffered mental injuries in multiple car crashes oh yeah that's that's what she says every car she's in bounces option multiple head injuries I was very abused and my cousin molested me so those are abused me I think they were the same age because she said sexually abused not molested so they're important those are similar age some important information they none of that makes you kill a man when you're 57 I don't think are you sure um no um Michael the son Robert son said in the nearly 40 years I've known Donna it's never come up meaning the sexual assaults and it's like what you wouldn't tell your stepson that your cousin molested you when you were nine probably give it and probably tell her tell him about abuse or head injuries that you've had over the 40 years that he's known it has her car bounced off shit a lot well now he said well that's the other thing she said she suffered a head injury in a 1999 car accident but Michael said between the time of the accident and the murder she never claimed a head injury never with the hospital for it she never said she had an injury shouldn't tell anybody about it by the 2007 hearing she claimed the taped conversations between her and Jackson now she has new excuses for those were quote just my imagination what just my imagination that's right it's all it is if it's your imagination then it's my imagination because imagination is oh no and also the things I that not only were they imagined my imagination they were stories I was writing what now she's pulling a quarry rich and saying the walk the dog letter was just a story she said this is story a story quote like the one she'd written while she was in school oh boy just a you know fantasy writings and that she never meant for anything bad to happen now on remand the trial court afforded her her right to allocation and one week later after asking her whether she had anything further to say and hearing an argument from the defense council they say you ma'am may fuck off a death penalty again hang on to it you got that for a pocket for later yeah that's good you're gonna need that later 2013 appeals again obviously she isn't like this at all concluding that the court failed to consider her allocation and determining her sentence during the proceeding on remand so they vacate the death sentence again and put her back for recettencing 2014 she's back in court he hears the judge hears arguments on the defense motion he denies the motion on the grounds that the instructions in this case regarding the proceedings on remand precluded granting the motion and that he'd already considered and rejected a Robert's arguments it's not that we didn't listen we just already heard that and said don't work no you already brought this to us it's not new shit yeah he then said he carefully reviewed the court record the guilt and penalty phases of the trial and say that he said he announced that he had quote given no deference to the prior decisions of the original trial judge and outweighed that the agree and announce that the aggravating circumstances outweigh the mitigating circumstances by proof beyond a reasonable doubt right and that he incorporated these findings into a sentencing opinion and says you man may fuck off death penalty again keep getting it now on the night Nate was arrested he's appealing based on something to what he was arrested he was advised of his Miranda rights on the right to the jail then they said without being questioned he denied killing anyone and asked whether he had the right to an attorney at any time they told him yes we told you your rights at the jail a short while after questioning began jackson agreed to allow police to videotape his statement he did not ask for a lawyer and declined to or declined to answer questions he just said a couple things but then kept talking as the video tape began the detectives informed him of his rights and gave him a waiver of rights form which he signed on camera on the tape he claimed that he did not mean to kill Robert and essentially claimed he had acted in self-defense they said in making his arguments to the trial court to suppress his statement to police jackson maintained the police persisted in questioning him even though he asserted several times his rights to say nothing and have an attorney present although he admitted signing the waiver he claimed that no one had read him his rights beforehand meanwhile it's on camera they said in the midst of a long and rambling statement he said I talked to a lawyer or something we we just sum it up like I said man when when I talked to my lawyer man you know what I'm saying that's not asking for a lawyer and they said under the fifth amendment you must clearly ask for a lawyer 2017 Donna Ohio Supreme Court affirms her death sentence six to one um 2018 the US Supreme Court denies to hear about it so she's technically scheduled for execution but Ohio's executions have been on moratorium for years due to the unavailability of lethal injection drugs and this isn't fucking Louisiana they don't just go you know get whatever runs that weed whack or we'll stick that into them but that's not you know they actually have to slam us nuts in a sliding door till he dies he'll die eventually 2021 Roberts files a Donna files of federal habeas corpus petition in the US district court for the north district of northern Ohio yeah um asserting 15 grounds for relief huh death sentence stands again when is she gonna stop 2024 the six sixth circuit court vacates Nate sentence really okay um may 2025 judge rules in favor of Donna's habeas petition Donna's death sentence is once again in jeopardy of being vacated now as they both face resettancing hearings both of them have been vacated as of right now if you look up their current department of corrections Ohio thing they both say they're in for life without parole and life are there two sentences with both of them say so right now they are both life with not not up to that account but if they could have it reinstated okay and Donna is now in her 80s oh 80s guys I don't want that to happen no we're gonna we can't execute an 85 year old lady we can't I don't want that to happen at all nobody wants anything like that we'll just wait a little while she'll keel over while fucking getting it joyfully yeah it's common don't worry it's gonna happen she's the only woman on Ohio's death row still I never want oh my god because somebody's got to witness that you don't want to see that nobody wants to watch a very old lady get murdered I mean find it getting the needle and it's going to be real easy but you're hard but you might find the homes on yeah you like to rip it up wow so in the media in the years since the convictions here the case has been featured on deadly women Jesus also snapped killer couples yeah because she's a woman yeah calls from the inside season two and for my man yeah those are the names of the plays things that have been in Nathaniel like we said he is in his 50s he's born in 72 so yeah he's going to be 54 years old at this point he is in the Ross correctional institution currently and he is a 440891 is his number Donna is W055276 and she is in the Ohio reformatory for women that everybody is howl in town ship Ohio and one crazy goddamn back shit bonkers story that woman's 82 James yeah she's 82 I think we'll just say good his life without well much more time are we talking here it's not much let's not waste money on this all the these appeals. She's going to be dead in the middle of these appeals. Who cares? She not be dead tomorrow. We're going any minute. She could drop that. She's in her 80s for Christ's sake. So there you go. If you like that episode, do us a favor. Get on whatever app you're listening on. Give us five stars. It helps tremendously when you do that. So thank you for doing that. Honestly, everybody. Do that, please definitely head over to shut up and give me murder.com. Get your tickets for live shows, people. Let's do it. Looks like Royal Oak has sold out and did. So May 29th and May 30th, Buffalo, Royal Oak, both sold out. Thank you, everybody. Fucking awesome. Let's keep that sell out train going. September 18th, middle Milwaukee at the Paps. By the way, not a ton of tickets. No, no, very few in the Papses. A nice venue. You want to go there. The 19th of Minneapolis. Get your asses in there right now. Let's go. Minneapolis. Buy those tickets. 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We're going to talk about that weird Christian television power team that was around in the 90s where they would they would like bench press 400 pounds and then go, thank you Jesus. And like the brains we pop in other heads and they're going books and shit. It's crazy. And then later on, of course, the guy who ran it got into some trouble and then the whole thing fell apart, obviously. Then for small town murder internet salad time, we're going to go around the internet. We're going to find everything that's going on in the world that has nothing to do with politics now, because we feel like you probably hear enough of that shit. So we're going to go and we're going to find all the silly shit that doesn't matter. And we're going to make fun of it. That's all it's a fun day. Can't wait for you guys to do that. Patreon.com slash crime in sports and in addition to that, you get a shout out as well. First, you get everything we put out all ad free as well, everything we put out all the shows. Then in addition to that, you get a shout out, which is right now Jimmy hit me with the names of the most wonderful, wonderful people in the world who would never ever stand up and beg for the death penalty while yelling at the jurors. They're not that stupid. Our listeners are smart. Jimmy hit me with them right. Fucking now. This was a good proof story. Gary Howard in Livingston, Texas, Simon Shed over their name. It's his birthday. Hey, happy birthday Simon. Simon Jordan. We miss you over here on the side of the pond. Yes. We'll see you soon. Winter Steinway as well. Thank you all so much for everything you do. Other producers this week, Peyton Meadows Monson. Yeah. It's his birthday as well. Jesus. From the other side of the pond and he's going to come over to Terry Town for Christ's sake. That's going to be really out. Yeah. We'll have to show him a good time after the show. He's been a fan since like the second crime in sports episode. Yeah, so good drinks with this man. We got to have a spot one back with him. Richard or Richard. He's in Maricopa, Arizona. Oh boy. Poor bastard. Yeah. Happy hours in Sedalia, Missouri this week. Good for you, buddy. Yeah. That's good to see you for tornadoes. Well, Janice Hill, Penny Boyce, Desmond Thorn. Yeah, she's great. She's always on there. Thank you, Janice Hill. Claire Tiscarinia, Tiscornia. Yeah. Tishera. No, Tiscornia. Okay. Becky Kinsling, Elliott Batello, Jason Hussun, who's son? Maritza Hovener, Hovener, Hovener, Athena Ray, Elijah Glazer, Andrew Hagland, Angie Hines, Beef Baby Boy. Yeah. Sarah Carlton, Shawna, or Shona Young, Joseph Hartigan, Lou, wouldn't know last name. Elliott, Clark Shock Jello, Jojo Sullivan, Dominic Cheney. It's not Cheney. That's two E's. Marianne Banzo. Good for you, Betty Costello, Jennifer Kuchen, Janice B, Jim Heath, Susie Q. Carl's, Ella, wouldn't know last name, Mary Ella, for a former Choney. And then also she got two. Yeah. That's two patrons for Mary Ella, for the Choney, the Coney, perhaps Germinder, Germinder, Ronda, Ronda Hawa. Yeah. Janette Mond. What is it? Say Ron Howard. What was that? No, Germinder, Ronda Hawa. Well, Ronda Hawa, as I said, Ron Howard, I was like, yeah, maybe that's what it is in another hour. That's Ronda Hawa. No, not bad. Janette Midland, Jordan Josselson, Katie Zolo, Tasha Knight, Ann Perry, Leslie Rowland, Skip with no last name, Amy T, Elijah, Alicia, Ira Heta, Hayley Kertner, Cameron Bullard, Gregory Baracci, Michelle Tallerico, Larissa Gilmore, Joy Ritter, Huizenga, Private Butters. Yeah, probably not a person. Mikey Indigo, Nate Sody, Nareesa Milo-Hob, Tee Money, Oscar Borg, Elizabeth with no last name, Jennifer Squire, Gianessa with no last name, Ted Fred, Fred Bread, Danielle Christensen, Brooks Patterson, Krista Rittenger, Amanda S. Brick Crowley, Lex Lucifer, Amy Crowfe, Brenna Cromca, Laura with no last name, Casey Hunley, Melanie Cronin, Nicky with no last name, Alex with no last name, hope, hope Lou Ellen, yep, Lou Allen, Jennifer Simpson, Karen Corover, Coraver, Stephanie with no last name, Melissa Spiddle, Damien Seagler, Jacqueline Lamar, Aaron Miller, soggy head of lettuce, Tiffany Ham, Krista Pia-Tella, Pia-Tella, Joe Mama, probably another real person. You never go, Jimmy, heavy nice. Lance Nigel, Williams, Croix Alloicious, Pockets Roasty Shins. It's a bunch of words. Susan with no last name, Don Livingston, Sarah Small, Chris Rouse, Susan Jarin, Jarin, Max with no last name, Chris Omara, Wyatt Wade, Gail Briggs, Dom the Blind. Oh, that's Dom, Maddie G, Joe with no last name, Christina Benjamin, Michelle Daringer, Annie with no last name, Tara with no last name, John Perkins, Heather with no last name, Quora Jane, Three Rats, and a trench coat, John Bella, Aaron Arnold, Tammy with no last name, Erica Collins, Jessica Freeman, Aaron Hardman, Denise McLeod, Sarah Lundgren, Anna Russell with no last name, all that Randy with no last name, Anna's last name is Russell. That's true. Holly T, Kayla Abert, Zachary Cannon, Susan, Surf, Sunchon, Sunchine with no e, Witt, Brendan Guaguz, Brad Warren, Chelsea Ball, Cara Bringham, Brigham, Kelly McKenzie, Madeline Fahey, Rachel Hayes, Doug Griffey, Jessica Ward, Leslie Batler, Kelsey Shurzinger, Andrea Leonardo, Megan Farrell, Cure on France, Terrence, nope, that's Tureka, De Oliveira, Michelle Ulsch, Melissa Surley, Sarah, Jeremy Mazes, Timo with no last name, Karen with no last name, Owen Buttkovich, Eliza Alisa, Eliza, Eliza, Eliza, Eliza, it's probably Alisa, right? Barnes, Lauren with no last name, Ren Milner, Trisha Liptrap, okay, Rachel Francis, Rachel Deck, Peter Pants, probably not, Harley Elliott, Stephanie Lasco, and every person in the patrons' show. Thank you so much, thank you, everybody so much. God damn it. Thank you guys are the best. We appreciate everything you do for us. Thank you so much. If you'd like to follow us on social media or find out any other thing about us, shut up and give me murder as the place to go and it's all redone the site, it's very user-friendly, it looks really great. So get in there, get some tickets, follow us, do all of that shit, keep coming back and until next week everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye! (upbeat music)