July Book Club: First Lie Wins

(upbeat music) - Hi guys, and welcome back to your Booker Mind podcast. - I am Haley. - I'm Kira. - I'm Hannah. - I'm Tatum. - And welcome back to Book Club. It is July Book Club, and today we are talking about our book, First Lie Wins by Ashley Elston, kicking off our first and our new plot twist theme. I'm excited to talk about this. I feel like it was very nicely timed. I needed an easy read, and so I appreciated this choice. But first, I feel like this is the first month, the last month, where we have had significant reading breaths with the group. How is this month of reading been? Anything notable? How's it been going? - Looking at Hannah. - You know why. - You know why. - I haven't read. (laughing) - I've been struggling. - I've had a rough month. I was really sick. - You got the bug. - I got a bug. - You're not the kind of person to read while you're sick? - Well, I feel like the bug is like throwing up. - It was, yeah, I can't eat. - And I literally, I did not feel the feeling of hunger for a week straight. And every time I thought about, 'cause I had to eat like little bits. - Yeah. - And it was so painful. - Oh, that's rough. - And it was, yeah, it was rough. So I just sat on my couch and just stared. - You rotted. - I literally rotted. - Love that. - I had my little sick outfit for the week. (laughing) And when was it? Sunday or Monday this week? I woke up and I knew my life had changed. I felt so good. - Oh. (laughing) - And I'm so ready to get back into it, you guys. - Oh, good. - Good, good, good. - I'm glad. - But yeah. - So I'm ready to get back into reading. And I'm starting with some contemporary romance 'cause I need a break from fantasy for a while. - For sure. - For sure. - I can see that. - What's your next read? - I think I'm gonna do a sports romance. - Ew! - Ew! - A hockey one? - No, I think it's gonna be a baseball. - Ew! - No, it's a football, it's a football. - And he's a titan. (gasping) - Oh. - Travis Kelsi. (laughing) - Yeah, I think it's like a football sports romance by Tessa Bailey, I think. - No, no, no. Sarah Adams, who did "Win in Rome" and "Practice Makes Perfect" which are pretty popular books, so. - I'm excited. - Fun. - Exciting. - I feel like I've done pretty well this month. - Yeah? - Have you? - You surpassed me. - Yeah, I surpassed Hannah and I'm at 46 books. - Bitch! - Pretty good. - You slut. - I passed Tatum's goal. - Wow. (gasping) - I'm catching up, I'm gonna catch up to you. You're gonna fall into a rut. Tatum's on my tail as well. - I'm at 41 books. - I think that's why I'm at two. - No, 42, including one I read today that I haven't recorded yet. - Oh. Yeah. - But I think I'm doing pretty good so far. I've been listening to some books. And then I, I don't know if I wanna talk about this. - Well, no you have to. (laughing) - I am. - Sorry. - Tessa Bailey has the hot and hammered trilogy. (laughing) - Tessa Bailey. - Tessa Bailey. - I remember after I read my first book by her, I was like, she really puts her picture on these things? (laughing) - To tell everybody who she is? - I'm proud of her. - Honestly, I wish I could. - She's a bold woman. - Yeah, so bold. - So that's a married woman with kids. (laughing) - Yeah, so I still have to read the third book of that. - Cool. - But I mean, they're not good. It's just, it's what you want. - It's fun. - Which one's the third one? - I forget, I don't know what they're even called at this point. - I just know it's the hot and hammered series. - Yes it is, Kira. - That'll be my next read. (laughing) - I, oh no, oh no, this author showed up on my For You page and I'm like, oh, his book's on Kindle Unlimited or he was free or something. So I'm like, let me just, let me just be nice. I'll give him a read, I'll give it a try. - It is heavy fucking fantasy and I'm realizing I don't read heavy fantasy. - Uh-uh. - Like. - We read child's play. - Like this is like, I think they're werewolves. - Oh. - We read girly fantasy. - And this, yeah, based on the cover, I would have never read this book and I'm just like. - Who? Did you finish it? - No, I'm still in the middle of it. I have a more general and good reads 'cause I don't know if I'm gonna finish it. - Is it called Bride? - No, it's called. (laughing) - Ali Hazelwood. - No, it's a joke. - Which is on my Libby and we'll be ready in five weeks. - Who is this author? - Not Brandon Anderson. - Let me find out. - No, that's not a known author. - This is Bloodlust by Devin Thorpe. - I know, why is that a familiar name? - It sounds like something from a movie. - Bloodlust is giving vampire. - Yeah. - Not werewolves. - I think there are techniques. I think they might be vampires. I guess I've never been the connection. They're undead with things. So I guess that is a vampire. And I'm just stupid. - What the hell, Tana? (laughing) Are they shape-shifting too? - The werewolves do. - Oh, so there's more than just one. - So they definitely are werewolves. - So there's like the werewolves, the undead, and then the black bloods. - That's a vampire. - Yeah, the undead is-- - I don't, I'm working my way through it. It's not terrible. It's just a lot for me. - You outed him, so. - It's not good. - I mean, I'm giving it a try. I'm giving it a try. It's not bad. I'm sure it's very much people's tastes that are into fantasy. - Totally, yeah. - And it's just been way more than, I guess there's more fantasy out there that I've not touched. - That's fantasy written by men. So that's different. - No, there actually was a pretty sex scene that wrote him like a stallion, and I'm like, "What's going on right now?" - Whoa, cowgirl. - 'Cause again, we kind of talked about this, I think, we're men in the romance genre, so it was interesting to then read this sex scene written by a man. - Yeah. - Right? - It's like Stardust. - Uh-huh. - Yeah. (laughs) - Yeah, that came out a lot too. - The tiny sex scene in Stardust. And it's, again, like I said, it's not bad, but they added more Abby Jimenez on Kindle Unlimited, so I'm finally gonna get to read those. - Yeah, I'm gonna start an Abby Jimenez book too. - Wow. - Next. - I love this. - So catch that episode, you guys, 'cause we will then do an episode on it. We have to. - Okay, I guess I gotta start reading. - Yeah, get to reading girls. - You've read them, right, Hannah? - I've read quite a few. - I've read the-- - They're supposed to be really good. - Okay. - Okay, well-- - Uh-oh. - I mean, there were four, I gave them four stars. - I think I gave all of them four stars. - Haley, didn't you give one like a lower star? - I've never read Abby Jimenez. - I only read the part of your World Series, and I just purchased-- - That was the one I was gonna start. - I like that. I just purchased two thirds of the Friend Zone series. - It's the Friend Zone is the one that's on Kindle Unlimited. - That's cool. - So that's, do they not have the first book? Is it just the second two? - That's the one that they sold at freaking Barnes & Noble. So I have to wait for the first one on Libbey. - Okay, Haley. - So Kindle Unlimited, what are you doing? That they have the second two in the Friend Zone series, and then the second book in the part of your World Series. - The second book I think is arguably the most popular. - Kindle Unlimited, and it's like what? Anyways, so yeah. - Abby Jimenez should be a good breath of fresh air. - Okay, Haley. - Yeah, it's actually been okay. I feel like I've been on a good rhythm. - You've been reading a lot. - Yeah, I feel like I've been on a good rhythm lately. - You keep your book secret. - Yeah, she just randomly shows up one day, like, oh, I read a book, everyone's been waiting to read for a year. TV, I didn't know about that. - She didn't know, but you started like a whole new series, and I'm like, I didn't know, you were interested in this. - Yeah, yeah, I did. Well, I told Hannah about it when I bought it that day. I read the first book in the, I read the Spark of the Everflame, and I'm excited to read the next one. Honestly, it was very fun. But yeah, I feel like I've been on a good rhythm, and I've kind of been reading things like all over the place. Like, I've gone like all over the place, just whatever. - You've been going fast, too. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's been really fun. Good month, so far. I think it helps that I can read outside. It's so much harder to get distracted, so I can just like plow through a book outside. - I love it. - Yeah. - Okay, let's talk about our book club book now. The book we all read this month. The First Eye Wins by Ashley Elston. Okay, so we're gonna do a brief synopsis. Draw your memory if it's been a while since you've read, or if you haven't read it at all. The identity comes first, Evie Porter. Once she's given a name and a location by her mysterious boss, Mr. Smith, she learns everything there is to know about the town and the people in it. Then the mark, Ryan Sumner. The last piece of the puzzle is the job. Evie is in privy to Mr. Smith's real identity, but she knows this job will be different. Ryan has gotten under her skin, and she's starting to envision a different sort of life for herself, but Evie can't make any mistakes, especially after what happened last time. Because the one thing she's worked her entire life to keep clean, the one identity she could always go back to, her real identity just walked right into this town. Evie Porter must stay one, step ahead of her, pass while making sure there's still a future in front of her. The stakes couldn't be higher, but then Evie has always liked a challenge. So first, I always have to know right out the gate. What was your rating? Did you like it? Did you dislike it? What were your feelings? - I loved this book so much. - Really? - Yay! - I'd give it a 4.5. - Wow. - I thought it was really good. - Wow, okay. - Well, as you guys know, I'm not a huge- - Thriller girl? - Thriller person. So I gave this book 4.5 stars as well. (laughing) Oh my gosh, it was so good. I love this book, and it included some romance, and it would just make it so perfect. - I know, I know. No, it was really good. I really enjoyed it. - Yeah, I gobbled it up. - It wasn't even scary. - Yeah, it wasn't scary. - It wasn't scary at all. - See, I told you I wasn't gonna scare you. - Yeah, you didn't. - Okay, we're gonna go on a journey. - Uh-oh, boy. (laughing) - Here, don't disappoint me. - I'm very critical when it comes to like thrillers. - That is true. - The first, I wanna say like 200 pages, I thought this book was boring, but the ending made up for it, so I would still give it like four stars. - Okay, oh, okay. - But like, I thought it was gonna be very predictable, and I was like, okay, well, I guessed what was gonna happen, but then the ending had a good enough twist, where I was like, I did not see that coming, which is surprising, 'cause usually I feel like I can kinda guess what's gonna happen, or like it's just an out-of-pocket dome twist, and that doesn't make any sense. So I was pretty surprised by the ending. So still four stars. (laughing) - That's interesting, 'cause I felt like the first half, I was way more into than the second half as well. - Yeah, interesting. - Like, I don't think that the second half lost me by any means, but I like was pulled in in the beginning, and then I was just like coasting in the end. But yeah, I would give this also four stars, maybe a 4.25. I really enjoyed it. I thought it was so fun. Like, I was having such like a fun time reading it, and yeah, it was exactly what I needed. Like I said, just like an easy read. I loved like trying to uncover the mystery. There wasn't anything that I would say shocked me. Like there was nothing that like made my jaw drop, but like every plot twist that there was, I was just like, oh, like, you know, like it wasn't like draw, I hit the floor, but that's smart. - Yeah, but it was like, oh, I didn't think of that, didn't think of that. And I actually didn't predict anything that happened in this book, like who Mr. Smith was, like what was gonna happen at the end, like with her and Ryan or like the business or any of that. I actually didn't predict, like I was trying to predict things as I was going through, but I was wrong every time, which I always love. I hate when I can predict it. - What was that lady's name? - That died. - Amy. - Amy, when Amy was like, hey, how'd it go? I was like, yeah, I know, I know. - You were laughing? - I know. I thought that. - Evie had killed somebody for a second. I was like, she wouldn't do that. - I know. - But they did. Who was that body that they burned instead? I don't know. It was a Jane Doe. - I know, they never said who that was. - It is a Jane Doe that they found. - Yeah. - So it was a nobody. - So sad. - Not to somebody. - Well, I mean, clearly it was because no one knew who she was or cared. - Yeah, I guess nobody came back for her. - Okay, great, okay, yay. I'm glad that you all liked this book because me too. And I was hoping that we all would. So first, what were your thoughts about Evie/Luca as a protagonist? Did you feel like she grew through it? Did you like her? Did you like understand her point of view thoughts? - Like I've always said. I don't like, especially when it comes to female main characters. I don't like a dumb girl. I want someone that's normal. Like we're not stupid, okay? We're not just wins to our feelings and hormones, okay? So I really appreciated Evie being a smart ass girl. - Yeah. - Getting it done. I think she was really eye on the prize focused. I was like, oh, let's do this. She's doing her job. - Yeah, and doing it damn well. - Prepared for everything, needless to say. - Yeah, I also liked how smart she was and how she put in the work. - I loved how fearless she was. - Yeah, yeah. - She was so exciting to read, specifically a female character like Tatum said, who was so smart, but also who didn't let the men in her life like control really what she did. I mean, obviously Mr. Smith controlled what she did, but eventually like, as the book goes on, you see her more and more be like, oh, I'm gonna go against what he said and do all this stuff and come to find out. She had hatched this plan for like eight years. I had no idea. - She from the beginning had this plan. - Yeah. - And working it from day one. She was like, I don't, I won't answer to nobody. - Yeah. - Yeah, I'm like, that is so cool. You're so fun. - Yeah. - Your mama raised you right. - She was so brave. - Well, all still maintaining a sense of humor. - Amen. - And having fun with it. - Amen, yeah. - She was so fun to read. It was so, it was so easy to like put myself into like her head and. - Yeah, totally. Yeah, her point of view was really clear to me. I feel like that's usually where characters start to lose me is where I'm like, I don't understand why you're thinking this and why like A plus B equal C to you. Like, I don't get that and. - This is overreacting or. - Yeah, and her character I felt like was so logical and believable in her thought process. Like how she reacted to everything and then how she like damage controlled after. Like, I just thought it was really well done. - And she was still so humane for somebody who is in that line of work. - And even the moments like she broke, it was like understandable and it was, it didn't go on forever. She was like, okay. It's like, yeah, we all have those quick cries in the shower and then you move on. - Literally. - The love of her life. Like she thought the love of her life was like betraying her and she had to still like go back out and act like everything was fine. Or when somebody died because of her technically, but not really. It's like, she had a very emotional reaction to it. But like Tatum said, she got a job to do. - Yeah, and she even like called an ambulance on the job when she really shouldn't. - And she had her little miles. - Yeah, she had like the, what's his name, Miles? - Yeah, his name was Miles. - Oh, I saw him in Miles. - I know. - That's crazy. - Oh, great. Something happens to this little kid, I swear to God. She still had that connection even though she wasn't supposed to like. - And I wanted her to not be human. And she's like, I'm sorry. - Yeah, I'm gonna call the ambulance on that lady ass. - Yeah. - I liked her. And then there was a lot of use of like time, it wasn't time jumps 'cause they were like flashbacks. But there was a lot of time jumps that I was, - Yeah, and I was curious what your Tatum notorious time jump hater, how you felt about that. - Here's the thing, I'm not a time jump hater. I love it. I just think no one knows how to do it right. It was done right here. They were perfectly placed. They were perfectly, they were really perfectly done. - They tie and they actually tied things into the story. - Yes, it made sense. And it was, no, it was done super well. I really enjoyed it. - Yeah, and it was interesting. - Yeah, I know, I liked that each time jump was like, how long ago and who she was. Like I thought that that was so interesting to do. - That's so new. - And then like after the time jump, she would go back to like present day and then think about, like they would like just tie it in. - Which made it so much less confusing. - It was also kind of like leading up. So it's kind of nice to, we have this story that's obviously building, but we also have the, this job's extra important 'cause she fucked up on her last one. So we're seeing like the progress of her also in this job, how she got into it, what she's done in the past, how she got to where she was, and then her last job. So I think the timing matched really well to, okay, here she was eight years ago when she first started and then her last job and then it really culminated, culminating in the ending. Yeah, so good. I'm gonna talk about this next week, a bad time jump, so. - It was the time jump when she had, was it like a 4th of July party? - Yeah, when they were trying to do like the, basically like a heist kind of where they're trying to steal the painting. I thought that was- - That was a fun one. - 'Cause that was the one that she planned, sort of planning her revenge. - Yeah. - Because of that just being like a game. That's why she didn't aim me, yeah. - Yeah, I feel like each time jump or like alias jump built on the story well. Like there was never one that I was like, this feels random. Like I don't know why I needed to know that. Or I found out quickly why I needed to learn everything. So I just thought there was no like extraneous. - Yeah, it was all very purposeful. - Yeah, yeah, which was my problem when we read "Local Woman Missing" last year. That was my problem is that I was like, there's so much extraneous detail that isn't necessary and didn't make me more surprised. It just annoyed me and took more time, you know. - Yeah. - I mean, we've kind of talked about this a little bit, but the plot twists or the many plot twists that there were, especially towards the end, were any of them surprising or did you know that they were gonna happen? 'Cause I didn't know any of them were gonna happen. - Really? - Yeah, I don't think I saw anything coming for the most part. I mean, I'm trying to think back about Ryan. - See, that's the one that I guessed. - You thought he was, that's from the beginning? - Oh, no, not from the beginning. I thought once she did the job where she had to like watch him go to his work and go to his work. - So crazy. - I heard him have that switch of like, oh, he can be, he's a bad boy. - Yeah, he's a bad boy. - Morally gray man. - Morally gray woman. - Exactly. - That's why I was like, okay, well, something has to be sus about him and that's when my mind started to think that he was Mr. Smith. And so when it came to the hotel and he left and she left shortly after and they were talking him and what was the other guys? - Name the actual George. Yeah, him and George were talking. I was like, I fucking knew it. I'm like, this is so dumb. - I was so sad. - This is so dumb. - I was sad. - 'Cause I thought he was like Mr. Smith for a while too and then I was like, no way. - But when he was talking to George, I was like, okay, now this is even more sus. 'Cause what if it's George? And so my mind just started kind of rigged with that. - I don't think it was George, interesting. I didn't see that one. - Yeah, I never crossed my mind that it would be George. It crossed my mind that it would be like Rachel or like one of his friends, like Ryan's friends before it was George. - Yeah, yeah. - Wasn't that her name, the lawyer? - Yeah, okay, yeah. - I liked her. - I know, she was cool. - She was a rager. - Yeah, I hope that her and Evie become friends with her. - Oh, they totally were. - Yeah, yeah. - They give off the same energy. I don't, like I said, I don't read a lot of thriller books so I don't know like the typical plot twists that these books use. So I was having a ball. I mean, you kind of know that someone with her real identity shows up 'cause it's in the synopsis, but I was still so surprised. - I was shocked 'cause I didn't think that it was gonna be in that way. Like I kept reading the synopsis saying like her real identity just walked into town and I thought that that was like somebody brings her up or like somebody like knows about her or like knows what she does. Yeah, out of her. But yeah, when that girl came up and was like, I'm Luca and then she's like, that's my name. I was like, that's a mic drop. - That was probably the biggest plot twist of the book. Like that's surprised me more than George being Mr. Smith personally. - Yeah. - Well, I think the biggest, I mean, aside from like obviously Amy being alive, I think the biggest thing at the end that I was like, okay, this guy, like this is what made the book was when she dressed up in plain clothing for the conversation with the detectives. And when she said that her identity is actually Evie, I was like, that's such a good, I didn't see that coming of her just being like, - And she definitely did not lie. Even before it was not there that day. - And she was like, no, that was Luca, Luca did that. And I'm like, whoa. - That's a good twist to like put it back on Mr. Smith. Like, okay, you don't want me to be Luca, you killed her. Well, that's gonna be my out. - Yeah. Like you put all this work into making me this other person and to like, good job. I'm not going down for that. - Yeah, yeah, I thought that was so clever. And I didn't think that's, I was unsure of how she was gonna get herself out of it. - Yeah, exactly, exactly. - Yeah. - Speaking of George. - And that plot twist that he ended up being the big bad wolf the entire time. Like I said, I did not see that coming 'cause he was like the best friend, not the best friend, but he was like-- - They were chummy. - They were really good friends. - Yeah, flirty, like come have a beer with me. He's like, no, I can't. Yeah, probably 'cause you had shit to do. You probably had to go chop someone's fingers off. - Yeah, gotta threaten her some more. - George, and it's like he never once did I suspect, he didn't even, he was acting like he didn't want to do anything. And then at the end, I still was like, I don't know, is he covering? Like not actually. - Yeah, totally. - I was like, I still couldn't, I couldn't see those two characters being put together. And luckily there's not a lot of time for you to do it anyway. You just have to accept it and move on. - Yeah. - But his little ending where that one mob family that he did dirty. - Would she say, go have fun with them. - Oh, she's so smart. Oh, he's dead now. - Rest in peace, George Smith. - George Smith. - George Smith. (all laughing) - I was really happy that her tech eye did not become-- - Evil? - Evil or anything. - I was so scared. - I was scared of that too. - So scared. - I was like, waiting for that to get turned. - I loved their relationship. It was giving like-- - He was so cute. - Brother sister. - Brother sister, like annoyed older brother. - A good dynamic duo. - Yeah, yeah, and I liked how they tied him back to Amy's sister and that he was like with Heather and was gonna move with her at the end, yeah. - He took good care of them. - Yeah. - I didn't, I wasn't obsessed with him at all. I was just nervous that something was gonna happen to him the whole time. - Exactly, same. - Especially when George, you know, is like, you gotta tell your guy to be more careful. I spotted him coming in. - He only sees me when I want him to see me. - I know. - So good. - Sad bitch, yes. - Yeah, I thought that that was so interesting when we find out that George was Mr. Smith. At the end is that he knew about her tech guy and he like didn't, I'm like, why didn't he work through him? - Yeah. - It seems like a power play, like as someone who's very controlling, you wouldn't want your employees to be seeking outside help like that. - Right. - You want them to be fully reliant on you. - Yeah, but then at the same time, he was getting everything he wanted out of EV because of Devin. So it's like, you win some, you lose some, I guess. - Yeah, I just thought it was interesting that George was, or that Mr. Smith was cool with somebody who could do better than any of his other employees, like get things that he couldn't even get to and that he didn't try to either recruit him or get rid of him, you know. - That just goes to show how good Devin's stealth was. - Yeah, right? - So. - Devin's stealth. - Dude, I did have to giggle a little bit about their Instagram communications. - Oh my God. - I was like, this is so goofy. - That was funny. - I didn't even get it at first, like the first time that she was like, I went to Instagram and I commented on like, who was it, like Gordon Ramsay's like Instagram posts. - Like Southern Living. - Yeah. - Yeah. And I was like, what? - Why did we include this? - I think Devin was just too paranoid. - Yeah, he was pretty paranoid. - But by me for good reason. - For good reason. - And the fact that after most of her job, she was just like getting people left and right under her belt, like with the senator, right? Like setting that whole plan up and be like, I knew that he wasn't going to be the one that would break, but I got some other dirt and then on top of that, like I have them- - I have him in my pocket. - Yeah. - In my pocket shoes. - And same with that football player. - Yeah, Erin's just willing to lie in alibi for her. - Yeah. - Like out of nowhere. - Totally. - They don't really go into like, why they're that close. - I know, yeah. There wasn't a lot of follow-up on- - I think it was just impactful. - Because, yeah, I mean, yeah. - The witness of the decision. - What she said to him was probably pretty impactful, but like she- - But not to make you commit a crime. - No, exactly. And like, I'm like, have they spoken since? Like this was so long ago. - I think so because they act like they have. - I think they actually did have that dinner. I just think that maybe she has to switch it to a different day. - Yeah. - That's right, that's right. - Yeah. - Because you gotta think, she's got time off in between jobs. - Oh, yeah. A lot of times, she doesn't know what she's doing. She doesn't know where she's going. - I think, I do believe, yeah, she probably followed his football career and they stayed in touch lightly. And especially given like, I think, wasn't like the whole thing, his family was gonna be unhappy with where he was going following that one coach, I don't know. - Yeah, she said he knows. - 'Cause they wanted him to take the money. - That one coach being George Smith's entire downfall. - I know. (laughing) - You know, that coach was so blank. - Why are you giving him your personal number? (laughing) - That coach was bougie. - I don't know, I don't know. - Another goofy, the sub reddit, the reddit thread. - Huh? - What? - That's how, he got his clients. Was it not the reddit thread? - I don't remember the reddit. - I thought it was like a Facebook group. - In my mind, I thought it was like a website that they went to. - I don't remember any of this. - I know, reddit and Instagram. - Well, then how would people find out what to say to him? - I know. - Where did they get their information? - I think we aren't in the crime world, so we don't know. - But I think you gotta know someone to know someone. - So true. That was a hole that I didn't care about. Me as well, which means it has to be a good book for me to not poke holes at it, so. It's pretty good. Also, this was the first book that I've ever seen actually say morally gray. - I know, yeah. - When I read that, I was shocked. I was like, whoa, because I feel like that's such like a our world thing. - To say, yeah. - I mean, this book did come out in January. - Yeah, that's true. - That's pretty new. - Well, yeah, it's new, but I just mean like, I feel like book characters aren't supposed to know about that. - Acknowledge it. - It's breaking the fourth wall. - Yeah, it is. - It's breaking the fourth wall when they say morally gray. And also, I do have to admit that this, I have heard the term morally gray over and over and over again, and I never even tried to think about what it actually meant. Like, I would just read it and move on. And like, there are people that are like, "Morally gray men, I love them so much." And I was like, I have no idea what you mean by that. But moving on, I just never put more than 2000 together. But this is the first book where I read it, and I was like, "Oh, I get it now." That they're not necessarily good or bad, but yeah, doing things, you know, whatever. - Questionable, yeah. - What was your thoughts on Ryan and Evie? Did you think they were gonna end up together? Did you like their romance at all? Like, what were your thoughts? - Oh, I totally was like, they're ending up together. - Yeah, yeah, they're both criminals. - They have a connection. - Yeah, I think 'cause obviously I was sus of him, but in the beginning I wasn't. I was just like, "This man is oblivious." But yeah, then when I was sus of him, then I was like, "Oh no, she really likes him." - I know. - This is gonna break her. But no, I'm very happy that it panned out how it did, 'cause I wanted them to be together. I also wanted them to be together. - Yeah. - But I, in the beginning, I didn't think they were gonna end up together 'cause I thought she was faking it for the job. 'Cause this girl is breaking this boy's heart for what? - He's so nice. He has a little Texas job and they get takeout every day. What a dream! - I know, he has a beautiful house. - He has a huge, beautiful house in this small, cute little town. I could totally live there. - Totally. - Ryan. They have such a great life together. I'm like, "Girl, you're so sus." And then as time goes on, she talks more and more about how perfectly their lives fit together and he does bad things and I do bad things. So then yeah, I was like, okay, they're gonna end up together. How is Ashley gonna write him out of this little shit hole that he put himself in when he was talking to George? - Yeah. - And he didn't, he ended up not knowing that George was her boss, so. - Yeah, thank God. - I know. I know in the whole thing of the progression of their relationship of he doesn't know who she really is and she doesn't know who he really is and then they keep discovering things about each other over time together and it draws them weirdly more together, but it didn't overshadow the whole plot either. It was very much like. - I don't settle. - Exactly, 'cause you don't know. 'Cause he was like, it made you feel like he was Mr. Smith because he was like, why are you still lying about this? Why aren't you fucking telling me? I know. - And her saying, "I'm going to tell you." Just not right now, I'm like, "Yeah, she's in deep." And then he's like, "I'll tell you once you tell me." And then he ends up telling her first about his dirty little secrets. It's like, this is so romantic. - 'Cause he's like, she's not who I was told she is. He found that she changed the ledgers or whatever and was covering for him. So he's like, I'm sorry, why am I supposed to be hating this girl? What's going on? This whole weird, this whole thing is weird. And he's like, oh, I got wrapped up in something, uh-oh. - Right. - Yeah. - And when he finds out that she's a murder suspect and he just sticks with her for-- - Right. - Yeah. - Mm-hmm. - Mm-hmm. - You have no idea what's going on. - Yeah, and through that, he thinks that like, he's like, she is probably betraying me, but I'm still gonna like stick close to her. - The jokes that he made was like, "Hey, she might leave me, so." - Yeah, people look out on that and she did. - She did leave him, yeah. - Yeah, I don't know. I was so tickled by their whole thing. And I liked that it wasn't like the main thought that she had, like, her first thought was never him, which I appreciated. Like, she kept her priority straight throughout the book. And then them actually being together at the end was just icing on the cake. - Yay! - Right? - Like, she wasn't even planning it, and her friends were like, "Honey, you guys were great together." - I know. - And she's like-- - I know. Yeah, and they're like, "You're both morally gray." And I was like, whoa. - She thought on it, and then she showed up, and he's like, "All right, let's go get dinner." Let's go back to normal. - So cute. - Okay, last question. This one I found online, so-- - Oh. - It's just like, it just feels a little too deep for something I just whipped together. You know what I mean? But it's talking about identity, because identity plays a huge role in this, about like, if she's Luca, she's Evie, if it even matters who she is, you know, all of that. And then even like, the idea of George to Mr. Smith to Ryan to all of them. The question is, Evie assumes various aliases for her job and ultimately allows her Luca-Marino identity to take the fall for crime she didn't commit in order to protect her future. Why is the name Luca-Marina so important to her? And do you think your name is essential to your identity? Why are my not? And will she be happy as Evie? - Dude, I don't know why it was that important to her. I guess, 'cause her whole thing was like, I always expected to go back to that identity. And it was, it was like, why? It didn't seem like you had any friends really in high school. You weren't really a much of a person and your mom passed away and you were just kind of a drift in the world. I don't know why that was so important to her. - It was related to her mom because that's what she gave that name to her. It was what she had connected to her. - It was the last identity she had with her mom. - Yeah. - Before she became a million different other people. And I think it's not really the name. I think it's the memories, like who she was. - Or the relationships, yeah. Like she goes back to her little trailer park home. Even in the little town she lived in. But yeah, yeah. - Well, and I think she talks about every identity that she assumes she does like a whole look for. Like she dyes her hair, wears wigs, and like wears different clothes. Like Evie was like more bohemian, she specifically said. And like, I guess, you know, like Luca, she associated with her true self, her true identity, as opposed to all these people that she kept putting on. - Yeah. - So yeah. But I don't know. I also feel like I don't have any significant tie to my own personal name. Like Haley isn't like a family name by any means. Like I don't feel very precious about the name. But if one day somebody was like, you're not allowed to go by Haley anymore and you have to go by this other thing, I would be really bummed. - Yeah. - And I'd feel really strange about that. So I guess like it is important. - Yeah. - To see me with like any other identity. - Yeah. - Like I only have the memories of the name that I do have. So it would just, yeah. It would be off putting and like unsettling. - Yeah. - I feel. - I think the biggest unsettling thing about that portion of the book was like, pardon me, it's not even that unsettling, but just like the what for me was like seeing, for Evie, seeing this girl go on Facebook and befriending all the people she went to high school with and going like tag yourself in the photo. And it's like, what the fuck? - I know. - That's literally insane. - It wasn't just assuming her name. It was like, I am you now. Like I'm going to take your life, which is- - That would make me spiral. - Yeah, that would make me upset for real. And I guess also her having to secure her own future, basically being like it was Luca Marino who did all of that bad stuff and she's dead. It's like her- - She put herself under the bus. - Exactly, like it's like her legacy of who she would be Luca Marino forever now is known as a murderer that drove her car into the river, you know, like that's pretty rough to like have to incriminate yourself like that, you know? That's pretty rough too. - She's a strong woman. I know she's Evie. - Yeah, and I feel like, I mean, she's, I think that she likes being Evie. I think she'll be happy. - And more importantly, she loves being Miss Smith. - Oh yeah, she assumes Miss Smith. - Is she going to pick a different last name? - I know. - Why are we keeping it with Smith? - I know. - And I also was surprised that she just like took it over because I thought that she was trying to like put an end to everything, you know? But I guess maybe she's like, I'll just be more ethical now. - Yeah, I think she's going to do it for good. - As she EO, you know, that vibe. - Well, I think, yeah. I mean, it's not even about being like ethically good. It's just about, because like she doesn't have a problem with Ryan's whole transporting of steel goods. - Jesus Christ. (laughing) - Ryan's transporting of stolen goods. - So I think she's, and you know, like she'll steal some rich guys' fucking paintings. She doesn't give a shit. - Yeah, totally. - So it's like stuff like that versus like getting in with like mob bosses. - Oh yeah, sure. - And. - Yeah, well, I mean, she's like coming after bad people, you know, like in her mind, she's like, these are people that are rich, that steal from others, that lie and manipulate people, and, you know, so. - You mean Robin Hood. - Yeah, exactly. - Yeah, the modern Robin Hood. - Yeah. - If you will. - Well, as usual, we did a quiz for this one as well. And I had a hard time thinking of a quiz for this one. - No. - I thought it was kind of hard. I was like, I thought it was a hard one. - It is a hard one. - Yeah, but I decided to do, what is your moral alignment quiz? It's going to be linked in the notes. So take it, if you'd like to. Yeah, what is your moral alignment, girlies? - I don't think this is going to be a shock to anyone. - Ooh. - I got lawful neutral. - Ah. (laughing) - Yeah, that checks out for me. - You're motivated by tradition, and you strongly believe in law and order. You put a lot of faith in the process, and you'll often follow orders without questioning them, as long as it doesn't cause you to act immorally. Popular lawful neutral characters include, I don't really know who these, Lana Kane from Archer, I don't watch that show, Spock from Star Trek, and then Andy Dwyer from Parks and Rec. - I wouldn't call her a lawful neutral at all. - Me neither. - That's insane. - I was like, what? - I guess towards the end, he evened out a little bit. - Not even. - Yeah, yeah, I also disagree with my like, popular good character. Popular character, so, I don't know. I got chaotic good. - Oh. - Me too. - Yeah? (laughing) - Ken and I got chaotic good. Everything you do is for the greater good, but you feel like needless bureaucracy often gets in the way. You're trying to make the world a better place, but you really need to do it your own way. Popular chaotic good characters, Darryl Dixon from The Walking Dead, Ron Swanson from Parks and Rec. - Love him. - And Hagrid from Harry Potter. I just feel like the character I know the best is Ron Swanson, and I would never say he was chaotic good. - I wouldn't say Hagrid is chaotic good. - Yeah, I don't know. - No, but he's like anti-bureaucracy. - I feel like Switch R's. I feel like Andy Dwyer's like a chaotic good. - I do too. - And Ron Swanson's like a lawful neutral. - Okay, so I got, which that's kind of boring. - You're evil. - I got true neutral. (laughing) You don't feel strongly about much of anything. Frankly, you can take or leave a lot of things in your life. You're mostly guided by instinct rather than conscious decision. Popular true neutral characters is Hawkeye from The Avengers, Codor from Game of Thrones, and Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen. - Dude, I thought she said Hawkeye. - Hawkeye. - Hawkeye. - Hawkeye from The Avengers. - Interesting, none of us got evil. - I'm surprised, kind of. - Oh, really? - I thought Tatum was like-- - He was waiting for me. - Yeah, I thought Tatum was gonna do evil. - Yeah, but these questions were like, would you kill someone? - I know. - Y'all literally got good in your name. - I got true. - She doesn't give a shit. (laughing) - She don't care either way. - I'm just so curious 'cause I'm like, I think it'd be ridiculous to choose any of the other options that I didn't choose. - And that's how I feel too. (laughing) - I like the quiz a lot where I did go back and retake it just to be like, 'cause you know there was somewhere I'm like, you're on the day. - I think I wanna do this. I think I might do this. - Yeah. - Okay. - Well, great. - So take the quiz. - Yeah, take the quiz. - Someone be evil, let us know. - I know, let us know if you're evil. (laughing) - Okay, it is time to find out what our August book club, book is gonna be. - Hannah, take it away. - Hello, my name is Hannah. I will be hosting the next book club book. (laughing) And in this plot twist theme, this one's gonna be a doozy. I think this one's gonna be a little scarier than this last one. - Oh, Hannah's just gonna-- - Hannah's nervous. But we'll see. I'm gonna risk it for the biscuit. - Okay, what is it? - I thought that the premise of this book was exciting. I thought the idea was interesting, putting a little science fiction into it. - Oh. - A little dystopian. - Ooh. - Tatum's upset. - Tatum's depressed. (laughing) It is called The One by John Mars. - Okay. Let me read it to you. - I've never heard of it, I don't think. - How far would you go to find The One? A simple DNA test is all it takes. Just a quick mouth swab and soon you'll be matched with your perfect partner, the one you are genetically made for. That's the promise made by Match Your DNA. A decade ago, the company announced that they had found the gene that pairs each of us with our soulmates. Since then, millions of people around the world have been matched, but the discovery has its downsides. Test results have led to the breakup of countless relationships and upended the traditional ideas of dating, romance, and love. Now, five very different people have received the notification that they've been matched. They're each about to meet their one true love, but happily ever after isn't guaranteed for everyone, because even soulmates have secrets and some are more shocking than others. - Okay, I'm actually hyped. - That's actually so interesting, right? - That's what's so fun. - Oh, I'm excited. Our friend of the pod, KC, has already read this book. She gave it five stars. - I know, I saw that just now. - So, ooh, I'm excited. - Fun little premise, Kira suggested it to me. - Yeah. - 'Cause she knows more than I do. - It's been on my TBR for a year. - If it's bad, blame Hannah. - Yeah, great. - Well, blame John. Actually, it's a Netflix series. So we can watch it. - Oh, fine. - It's only eight episodes, so. They can watch it if they don't want to read it. 39% are rotten tomatoes. - I love premises like that, where it's like you get matched up with someone. There was the match trilogy that I read in middle school. Love it. - See, are you less annoyed now? - It reminds me of a One Direction fan fiction I read once. - Oh my gosh. - So I'm pretty excited. - Okay, and we're gonna be talking about that book on August 27th, so you have until then to read it. Next week, Kira, what are we talking about? - We are going to give our hottest of hot takes and talk about books that we hate that are popular. So stay tuned for that. We might get a little heated and hate on your favorite book. - Don't get your feelings hurt. - Yeah, it's all love. - There's a book for everybody, yeah. - These are the ones that are not for us, yeah. - A tea and a he. - What? - So true. - What did you say? - A tea and a he. - Tea and a he. - Okay, pick up the book club book, please. And also follow us on TikTok, follow us on Instagram, at your Book or Mine podcast. We like to talk over there, so head over there. - And with that, we will. - See you next Tuesday. (upbeat music)