JRE MMA Show #184 with Aljamain Sterling

- Joe Rogan wants that, check it out. - The Joe, Rogan, experience. - Stream by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (upbeat music) - One more, which one to go with, what's going on? - Be a man. - Give me a smile. - Oh, you got a top and bottom, man. What did you do? - It's amazing. (laughing) I've always wanted to have money so I could get one of these when I was a kid. - Oh no. - That was that one of the ones that you could take out or is it, okay, that's good. - 'Cause that's such a commitment, you know? One day, you got to go to the White House. (laughing) You got diamonds and gold in your teeth, that's crazy. - It might be your first time, you know? - How does it fit, is like a retainer? - Yeah, so they fit it, they mold it. I got it done in Dallas, actually. And they just fit it, molded to your teeth and then pop them in. It's almost like wearing a retainer. - Texas loves grills. - Yeah. - They love grills. - He should, yeah, Paul Walser, he's gonna hook us up. - He's gonna hang, yeah, I'm not sure. - I remember, what was the one episode with Theo? And you asked about the headphones and he said something like it's like sitting there with the condom and she's just looking at you or I forget exactly how the joke goes. But it was funny, it's like one of Theo Vaughn's greatest moments where he says all these things. He was like, when I feel like saying it, I just write it down. I don't know if you saw this clip, but it's, I mean, I'm sure I was there when it happened, but he says so many ridiculous things. I can't remember. - It just, it was here, we'll put it there. - I just, he put it on. - I felt like, oh, my lawn here. - Oh man, it is weird, huh? It's like when you put a condom on it and there's the other person just still looking at their phone. You're like, oh, this is weird. And the person I mean is a woman too. - You gotta be able to tell everybody, huh? Well, I just say it, I'm not gonna say it. - There it is, yeah. - Yeah, that's why we said that the headphones I just, that just came to my head in like immediately. - Yeah, sometimes I have them off, sometimes I have them on, but it's better to have them on. It locks in, locks in, you know? - I feel that. - Did you watch the UFC this past weekend? The Apex? - I watched the main event come in. - Bro, the main event. - South kill is legit. - I wasn't too sure about them, but now I'm very sure. - As a man who has one of the best back controls in the sport. - Yeah. - You had to appreciate that back control. - Oh, it was amazing. And he took them down, which I was kind of surprised. I was like, why is he going for the take down? - Crazy. - Proving a point. - Proving a point. - Because it stand up, it's so sick too. - Yeah. - I got so complete, man. - And do that to Gamrott? - That's what I was gonna say. - Crazy. - He's a sick grappling, his own right. I thought he was gonna get out that one moment where he had the leg hiked up, he had the ankle. And all he had to do was swim inside, where he kept it too long, allowed him to hit the ground and he was able to readjust and lock in that figured for. And it was over. - Well, when he reached over and grabbed the far arm and used that to hang on to the back. - Yes. - That is slick. - Yes. - That was slick. He was fucking slick, man. And just very high level. Everything was like an elevated level. I had a very high opinion of him before the fight, but now I'm like, oh, this dude could do it. He could do it. - He knows what. - He knows what. - Yeah, that was really surprised with that. And the fact that it went so quick, oh, his fights have been in the first round. - Then these scrambles, these scrambles from this position. Now, generally in this position, it's so hard to keep back control. Like right here, grabbing the arm and this adjustment. Pro, that's really skillful. - It's a seatbelt. - Yeah. - Just the way he's able to adjust it. Gamross trying everything, but once he gets to that position, it's over. You're back. You're back in his backpack. And he's got a lot going on, man. He's first of all, real tall for the weight class. I think he's over six feet tall. Long, excellent reach, excellent strike. The other thing that he did that was really slick, he pretended to get up off of his back. So Gamross explodes and he exposes his neck, right there. Watch that back that up just to touch. Look at this, this is so slick. Like look, he's hanging on his back. They're struggling. And he said, "Let me just sit up and he'll sit up." Bam, right there. That's so nasty. This slick is fuck, man. That's so slick. That's such a good sneaky move. 'Cause the guy's like, "Oh, now's my time." You know, those moments where you feel like you can move. Like he got, he gives me just some space. Like, "I'm gonna go." And then, blah, blah. - Anytime I'm in training, someone has my back. I always try to make sure I'm always aware of the choke. Mats always says, "Always protect the choke first." And that's the main thing I always try to focus on. Protect the choke first before you start doing anything. Else that's crazy. 'Cause at the end of the day, it just takes that little split second to get under the neck and that could be the fight. - Yeah, sometimes people just get, they get a little too urgent. You know, they get a little too, they just want to make something happen without just being safe all the time. Always be safe. And that's the, in Gamarot's situation right there, that was the moment. 'Cause who knows if he could have made it out of that position and survived all those choke attempts and got to the next round, who knows? You know, and if he got on top, who knows? And South killed, I mean, you presume he has great endurance, you presume, but we really don't know yet. - We haven't known. - He's still the wild unknown about him. - Yeah. - That's what I'm just like, I don't know how good he actually is. But I could tell you what, first round, he's a motherfucker. - He's a motherfucker. - That guy is good. - It's interesting like these guys that have the unknowns. You know, like some guys get really, like Tom Aspenal becomes heavyweight champion of the world and it's kind of an unknown whether he can fight in the fourth and fifth rounds. Kind of crazy, right? We just know he's a blitzer. We know he's big and fast. But we really rarely see him get out of the first round. - Yeah. - Kind of nuts. - It's a gift in a curse. - Right, that's a good way to put it because you get both your paychecks. You get done really, really, really. But then if you're running to the wrong one and the fight starts to get tough, you don't know if you can actually push that envelope. 'Cause it's pretty different. - That is the most bullshit part of the UFC. You get both your paychecks. - Fuck off. - Fuck off with that. I hate it. That drives me nuts. - I know the boss. We could talk to him. He's not gonna listen. - I've said this a hundred times already. - It should be you get paid what you get paid. It shouldn't be, first of all, if judges were perfect every time, maybe you could make an argument for that, but I still don't think you should make an argument for that because I think guys fight as hard as they can to win. There's no one who's fighting harder because you think you're gonna get a win bonus. You're fighting as hard as you possibly get. - Yeah. - At the highest level. And so you're not incentivizing people to fight harder. You're just, you're giving too much of their career, too much of their future, too much of their actual, how they gonna feed their family to the whims of people that sometimes get it wrong. - A hundred percent. I do remember one incident where I was situation, I should say, where I was going to fight harder, and I was UFC 300 against Calvator, when Dana announced the bonuses were gonna be 300,000. And I got super pumped up, and everyone always points at us and they go, you got so excited that you went there and you fought like that. I go, listen, it takes two to tango. If he wants to sit there and hold me, it's not much I could do. I can't really just fight. I thought about, I was like, I'm gonna just go out there and just start swinging for the fences and take them down and maybe get a crazy finish and it didn't go that way, but I tried. - Well, I tried. - I thought about it. - Guys cancel each other out, too. Yeah. That's the thing, people want exciting fights. Everybody wants exciting fights. Of course, of course. But there is a reality to skillful guys going after each other, and that sometimes they'll cancel each other out and make a boring fight. - Yeah. - That shit happens. It really does. There's no rhyme or reason either. - No. - I mean, who is it? Like Francis Lewis, Francis Lewis. Francis is at Gano and Derrick Lewis. - Oh my God. One of the worst fights of all time. - But we all thought that was gonna be just a quick fight. - We thought it was gonna be madness. - Madness. - And guaranteed madness. Two of the biggest knockout artists in the history of the heavyweight division. - An exact opposite. - Nothing. - Nothing happened. - But it was hell. - These fights happened. And then the fans get on you about it. Like listen, you go take a punch from that guy. That guy is gonna send my consciousness to a whole different universe. - Well, you had Francis coming off the loss to steep A, and I think he was a little rattled mentally. And then you had Derrick who realizes like, he's looking for his one big shot, and he's not willing to wait in and get clipped. And so he's, you know, waiting to play the role of the Counter-Strikeer, and then no one does nothing. - Yeah. - Carlos Bazaar and Rose Number Unis. Worse fight in history. - Arguably. - I think it might be worse. 'Cause I think that was five rounds. We went through five rounds of that shit. - It was five rounds. - That was worse. And Derrick Lewis and Francis and Ghana would have been the worst because of expectations. But it was only three rounds. - Yeah. - This was five rounds of what the fuck is going on. - And it's not a knock on the fighters. - Of course not. - So they were the greatest flyweights. Right, no. - It was two of the greatest flyweights of all time. I mean, Rose number Unis, when she knocked out Jean Waley with that fucking head kick, holy shit. When she, when she, uh, starched Yawanna, hit her with that left hook and took her out like, dude, Rose is a beast, man. She's a beast. At one of the absolute most exciting fighters, champions of all time. In those, those, those particular exchanges, like some of the fights that she's had, they've been amazing, amazing. fights, but that just fight, that fight sucked for whatever reason. It happens. It just happens sometimes. I can't explain it, but sometimes you just feel something when you're in there, you just kind of like, well, I'm not going to go and they're like, well, I'm not going to go if you're not going to go, they're just, yeah, I don't know what was going on in that fight. It was very strange. But I also think there's a time when you've been in so many wars, you know, you've had so many wars that your willingness to exchange is different. Your drive to attack is different. It's not there anymore, you know, and some, especially people who fight in wars and Rose has been in some wars. And that's why I fight the way I fight now, so differently because those wars that I had leading up to where I'm at, I mean, I had that barn burner with all these other guys on the way to the title and I had to change it up. Yeah, you got to stay alive. You have to fight smart, I'm joking. My fight is not born, but it's like that, but they're different. Your fights are the best, you have the best back control, I think I've ever seen in this sport. There's, when you get on someone's back, I'm like, oh shit, this is getting crazy. Yeah. You know, I did want to say I appreciate, because I do hear the episodes where you guys talk about it. I'm like, yeah. Two of your back control scenes. Two of your back controls. Back and that was 99, it was so slick. You've done that to so many dudes too. And you could see, obviously redemption for you was the second pure beyond fight. Those redemption. That's so good. Cool. I remember you came in right afterwards and was like, everybody's got to shut the fuck up. Yeah. They all got to shut the fuck up. Oh my God. They would just split the scenes and go, shut up. Shut up. Yeah, please. Yeah. You really showed everybody in that second fight. The first fight was just nonsense. The first fight was just that kind of a move to hit someone when they're down on one knee like that. Like, what the fuck are you doing, man? That was a rough time. Crazy. And then you, having already had a bulging disc in your neck, your neck was already fucked. It's also kind of crazy that you could compete at the level that you compete at with a fake disc in your neck. Yeah. Do you ever think about that thing? Oh, 100%. I still have like nerve damage in my tricep from it. Like, if I do like a Pilate or just a plank, you'll see it just this side shaking. Shaking. It's so bad. Even till this day. It's a lot better than what it was before, but this is what people don't understand like some of these fighters us, like we go through a lot just to make it. And you're going to hear the other side of it where no one told you to do it. It's not even about that. It's just like, we're trying our best to chase something great, something that's crazy in the sense of the word, right? And you put your body through hell to get there. And I just, I know there's great fans out there who appreciate that. And there's the other ones who are more casual and they don't really understand, but I wish they took the time out just to train to do a week of training and understand what we put our bodies through day and at a high level against other high level guys. Listen, you need the casuals. You need everybody to buy tickets. It's all great. Yeah. But the reality of the casuals, all you haters, you are doing yourself a disservice too. You're saying ridiculous shit, you're acting like a fucking retard. What you really should do is do better in your own life and you wouldn't be a hater. Because almost all haters are losers, 100% of them. And the people they're hating on are doing way better than them. And there's legitimate criticism, but legitimate criticism can be handled respectfully. And the people that don't handle legitimate, the people that don't dish out legitimate criticism respectfully is because they haven't been smacked, right? Yeah. Or they haven't been smacked by the guy they're talking shit about. Yeah. Or did they see him and then they changed their tune real quick. Of course. It's such a weird thing. People are so crazy. They talk about literal professional fighters and calm pussies. I got a lot of the aims. It's so delusional. When I said I'll fold you and have like recently because I don't, but they're just trying to fuck with your head. They don't even believe that. They're trying to get a rise out of Al Jermaine Sterling. They can get a rise out of a UFC champion. You know, when they're 16 years old jerking off Cheetos all over their fingers, you know how exciting that must be to have direct contact with you. Yeah. That's why I try. I try not to engage as much as I used to because before I would, I think we talked about it before, I would engage and go back and forth and I kind of got away from it. The old version of me would like to just say all kinds of crazy shape, but I'm, you know, a little bit more mature now. There's no benefit in it and it waste energy. That's the problem. And then it also waste your, you get distracted, like literally say back. I can't see what this motherfucker responded to. I'm gonna get him again. I do check. I do check. You saved a bunch of pictures of him for the Instagram. Let me see who asked in person in real life before he deletes it. Let me screenshot these. Yeah. There's people who are people. Yeah. People are people, man. And I would have done the fucking same thing. If I was 15 years old and somebody gave me an Instagram account and I could talk shit to whoever. I would talk shit to everybody. Whoever was. I'm trying to think if I was like that. I don't know if I was ever like that. It exists. When you were a kid, the access didn't exist. If that access existed, I got wrong tea. If you and your friends were like, bro, Drake's talking shit with me and you and Drake are going back and forth. You're like, "Of course you would do it. Everybody would do it. I would do it 100%. I guess he's just human nature. It's 100%. But I think that when you get to the level that you're at, a literal world champion and a professional fighter of the highest caliber, that's, you do yourself a disservice. You do, like, I love Sean Strickland. He's crazy as fuck. But he gets in there with everybody all the time. He gets in there all day long, talk shit with people. He gets in there. But it's somehow another doesn't distract him. I wouldn't give him the same advice. Something's fucked up about his brain that, like, for him to be in that kind of conflict all day, it doesn't seem to bother him at all. I think it feels, like, feels him. Just, like, want to keep going more, like, driving. Bro, Goggins plays a recording of all the shit that all of his haters have said to him while he runs. I wouldn't do that, but you know what I'm saying? There's people that are wired different and they think Sean is very, very much wired different in whatever, whatever reason, you know? Yeah. Sometimes I always, but I like it. I like, he should have a segment that, like, how Ray Longo has like the, the Ray Longo minute. He should have like a Strickland minute. Well, I was telling him, you know, we were talking when he was out here. He went to Ways to Wells. Well, to get his shoulder worked on after the Hamza victory and I was saying, you 100% could do a podcast. It would be hilarious. It would be great. You could have guests on. You could do whatever the fuck you want. Like, you have a real future outside the sport. Like, once, and he's also very smart with his money. As crazy as that dude is, he saved a ton of money. He gives great investment advice on Twitter. Like, he gives investment advice. He's like, wait, who the fuck is this? Yeah. This is the same guy. He's telling you how to invest your money. You know, S&P and all this shit. Like, what? He's not as crazy as he comes off. He's a lot smarter than people give him credit for it. He uses that as, like, it tricks you and it tricks you into thinking that he's like a silly person. Yeah. You know what I mean? But he'll say whatever comes to mind. Yeah. That's him. But the motherfucker can fight. Yeah. And I would spend the day. That's the thing. That dude can fight. Like, he can fight. And he fights it a weird way. Like, his very weird style. Like, nobody has that style. This episode is brought to you by Keytone IQ. I've tried a lot of supplements, but for years it's been one thing that I've been obsessed with to keep my brain locked in and that's Keytones. And energy molecule, our brains naturally create when pushed to our limits. 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We bring gifts. These are fighter cigars too. Fighter cigars? Yeah. I'm like, porcelain. So it's different fighter lines. I know you got a foundation. Uh-huh. I think it's so cold now, they use my fighting muscles. Fuck it out. It needs a belt. I might. You might. You get the beer clothes. It's weird. I broke it. I broke that too. What the fuck? It's supposed to just pull open. Should. I open it this morning. That's weird. Did something happen to it? Got cold. I got cold. I got cold. I got cold. I got a knife in here somewhere. to take him out. - Why? - Oh, when the device president was here? - Yeah. - Lucky I always carry one. - If we can't get these open, Al Jermaine, bro, this is like, chromatically sealed. - No, here we go. - There we got it. So we got different ones, you got a judo burn there, you got a funk master, you got a old day. - Which one is this? - I think that's the funk master. So I don't know if you like light or dark. - I like 'em all. - This is you? We got a smoke yours. - Oh, triumph cigars. So who's making these? Where they making them out of? - So he gets them from different places. - On the back of that too. - He gets them from different places. - Yeah, like Cuba, - Really? - Or Cuba. - Cuba, really? - I believe it's Cuba. - 'Cause Cuban cigars are-- - Hard, no, no, no, they're not really bad. Pop the top, do you know how to smoke cigars on you? - What are you doing? What are you doing? - I don't know what I'm giving. - Give that to me. - Oh shit. - That's the clipper. (laughing) - This is high, this is a high level shit right here. - Calibri. - A lot of fake Cuban cigars. - You got one? - I got one. - And then flip the top. There you go. - So they got like materials and different kinds. I'm like new into cigars. - These are the funk master. - That might be dead. Here, I'm sorry. - This one's good. - This one's good. - Jamie, you smoke cigars? - No. - Damn. - Jamie's strictly blunt, but now he's got to stop because he just wanted to be a feller. - I can't do it here. - He's got a cross-state line. He's got to go to Oklahoma and get high. (laughing) - Do you actually? - I want to go once a day. - Yeah, he takes a flight. Southwest Oklahoma. Get some bomb rips and hop back on a plane. - Where are you fighting? - Come on back. (laughing) - This is good. This is very good. So, the feedback on them has been great. They're good quality cigars. They make it from people that make them and they get them to make our own different lines of it. - Right. - So, it's pretty cool. - I like them. - Well, we used to perform in Miami. There was a place that you could go. We could wash some hand-roll cigars and they'd sell you cigars, like hand-rolled. It was pretty dope. You wash these ladies roll everything out and they get that long knife and they slice it up. - You rolled yourself? - No. - They told us how to roll down in Miami. - I don't want to ruin it. I don't want to do brain surgery. I want to see this. - It's fun. - Get an expert. Somebody's got to be good at this. - You got a rum line too, right? Is that it? Funk Harbor, run your neck? - Funk Harbor, baby. - I'll get you. - I got money now, Joe. (laughing) - You know, that's like, bitch, I got money now. (laughing) - I was supposed to bring my sharpie guy. I don't know if you wanted it like signed or whatever, but we won multiple shuttles and things like that. - Multiple metals, there's metals for. - Like competitions, yeah. - For rums? - Yeah, we got two double goals for this. We got two double goals for the silver. - Jamie, can you get us some ice cubes and some glasses? Let's fucking party, I'll germane. - Then we're gonna go to the mother shit. - I love that name, by the way. - Thank you. (laughing) - Yeah, we were trying to figure out what to call it. We had a bunch of different, you know, Mitsy Shore, that lady, who ran the comedy store. - Yeah. - The painting up there, that's her. She was the owner and founder of the comedy store. She used to say about the comedians, the inmates are running the asylum. - So we were gonna call it the asylum, but I thought that sounds corny. A little corny, or something about it. It's like a little like, we're crazy, you know. And then I thought, well, what is this? One of the things that Ron White, he was the first. Ron White was the first guy to move here. And, you know, I knew Ron real well from LA. And Ron said, you know, well, I love it. It's in the middle of the country. You could fly out. - What's the matter? - You want one, Jamie? - It's got work to do. - You won't get hammered with us. - He was in the middle of the country. He could fly out. It's only like three hours in New York, three hours in LA. It's perfect. And I was like, well, that would be like the mother ship. And then you could fly out. All your ships could fly to different parts of the company, but that would be your base. The mother ship would be the base. - That's pretty cool. - Plus, obviously, I'm obsessed with the aliens. - That's what I thought it was. - Of course. Yeah, I mean, I'm obsessed for whatever reason. - Which one? Darker light. - What's the difference? - So, this one's our limited edition. It's got the number one on it. We're gonna be coming out with some different ones. We're actually going through a rebrand right now. This one's aged two to five years. But they're all Jamaican origin. This one's aged under the tropical sun. On age is a silver. - Well, bust out that age under the tropical sun? - This one we use ex-burbon cast. So, the drink's really nice if you like bourbon. - Oh, okay. - It's a little bit, I don't wanna say sweet, but it's not as harsh when you drink it. - Are you a rum guy? Is that your thing? Is that why you started a rum company? - Yes. - You've always been a rum guy? - My parents are from Jamaica. So, I want to use that. - My parents are from Italy, but I hate Gropa. - That's just nasty. - Gropa's not nasty. - That stuff's nasty. I'm gonna take the big one. All right, cheers, sir. What do you guys say, Salud? - Salud, Salud. I thought you guys said something else in Italy. - I don't know. - Do they? - I just got back. - I was just there last week. - Yeah. - Two weeks ago? - Yeah, two weeks ago. - It was awesome. I love it there. - We still haven't gone. We wanna go so bad. - Oh, bro, if you wanna eat, that's the place. - Pasta, I just hear everybody talking about me. - I would love to do that. I gained three pounds. I ate nothing but carbs. I ate so much food. I ate two. I was hurting every night. (laughing) I was like, I'm gonna ignore my diet completely. I worked out every day, but I was like, I'm gonna ignore my diet completely and just eat for pleasure. - But it's not as bad though. - It's not as bad for you. The food is not as bad. - But wait, calories are calories, though. - It's just the volume. I'm a glutton. I ate two pizzas. I ate linguine with clams. I had a burrata and tomatoes. And I also had, what else do I have? Something, oh, a bunch of pieces of bread. I ate so much. In one setting, then I got home that night when we sat back and I was like, I can't move. (laughing) I've eaten myself to a place where I'm like, you ever see one of those lions that eats too much? They just lion. - Yeah, that's how I felt. - Jesse, those were my 135 days. As soon as the fight's over, I'm going in. I remember one time I ran into you at the apex and I was like, what do you weigh? And you said 176. I was like, that's crazy, yeah. You gotta lose 40 pounds. That's crazy. The fascinating part is when I went up to 45, I got down and I was lighter. And my natural walking around weight. You still eating the same way I always did. And I was walking around about 168. Sometimes 166 to about 172. And I'm like, this doesn't even make any sense. How much lighter I am from 135. And it's just less anxiety about making the weight. - That too. - Your body didn't hold on to it as much. - Yeah, so the body kind of just recognizes what's happening like, oh, this is a nicer weight cut. - Yeah, you're healthy now. - Even though it's still a weight cut. - I was gonna say, but I just checked my weight last week when I got, well actually two days ago when I got back from my house. You're at least 170. - I'm heavier than that. - 175? - North. - 80? - I was 78. That's when I checked. - Oh! - And I didn't look fat. I was like, this is crazy. It's happening again. It's happening. - That's people that don't understand it. Like I have to explain to my normie friends. They're like, "Hosey lose all that weight. "He doesn't have anything to lose." I'm like, well, you're sucking your muscles dry. And that's what's crazy. And your organs. - That's what's really dark. - Oh, it's dark, dude. It's dark. It's the worst part about fighting. - I still think same day, Wayne's. - Well, same day, Wayne's would change a lot, but also guys would get really hurt because people are still gonna lose the weight. They're still gonna do it. - But I think that's gonna be like a phase. Like people are gonna realize how stupid this is and they go, "Oh, I actually feel better." It's just competing at my weight. - Perhaps, but I think you would have to have multiple weight classes added. Many weight classes added. There's too many gaps that are too ridiculous. - The 15 pound gap would be the most challenging from 55 to 70. - What about 85 to 205? - And 85 to 205. - 85 to 205 is crazy. 20 pounds is crazy. - I always thought there should be an in between for that one. - 100%. There should be every 10 pounds. Every 10 pounds is smart. You know, go 125, 35, 45, 55, 60. Blow up in the ones that are, you know, like when you get to 70, make 70, 75. You know, 85 is already there. Make a 95, make a 205. And then it gets weird with heavy weight. I think you might wanna have like a bridge or weight, like a 220, 225, and then giant fellas. And then after that, it should be as big as the fuck if you wanna be. 'Cause that's the weird thing is like. - Heavy weight is limited. - I remember Tim Silvia. When Tim Silvia was sausage. There was a time when Tim Silvia was big. He was a big fella. And he was cut and weight to make 265 hard core. He was barely making it. He was so big back then, man. - He's a big man. - He's gigantic. And that was when he was fucking sick. And he, I remember watching him struggle to make the 265. I'm like, that's crazy. Why are you making the heavy weights cut weight? - That doesn't make any sense. - It takes away from what heavy weight actually, yeah, the biggest, baddest motherfucker alive. - Yeah. [BLANK_AUDIO] was fucking everybody up, people ate two 20. - I don't say small, let me not say small. - For a heavyweight? - For a heavyweight, he was-- - Yeah, I mean, it doesn't matter. Kane, when Kane was fucking everybody up, he was 240. - He was like two. - Yeah, Fedor, same thing. He was never real big. Fedor was fairly small compared to a lot of other heavyweights. - But then you got a guy like Rose Bellis dispend? - Oh, that guy's crazy. - He's huge. - Seven feet tall, he's gigantic. - Huge, that guy's-- - That range is nuts. - He's like the modern day in the inner throw. He's an Amazonian, he's a giant, a literal giant. He's one of those guys where when I saw that fight that MVP did with him and Juni dos Santos, I said, please don't do that fight. That fight's not right. That's one of those fights really, that fight's not right. This is just too much of a changing in the guard. He's one guy who is coming off of karate combat, first of all, it's one thing if Juni was a wrestler. If Juni was a sick wrestler, and maybe he's going to take him down, ground and pound, this is kind of even though he's older, he's been knocked out a bunch of times, he's still very dangerous. But Juni had seen his best days back when he knocked out Cain, which was like, what year was that? - Oh, 2016, 2015? - Was it even? - I got signed at 2014. I don't, I remember Cain, not Cain. - So it was the big, it was the big Fox card. It was the first card on Fox, because I remember they made Cain fight with a blown out knee, or they encouraged him to fight with a blown out knee. Cain's knee was fucked before that fight. And Juni or Cautum, with that perfect right hand, 2013, okay. - That's his debut? - Right, no, that's that fight. That's the fight where he knocked out Cain Velasquez. Oh, that's the second one. What's the one where he beat Cain? Is it right before that? - No, right before that. - He got signed before that. - Yeah, the Fox one, 2011, okay. So 15 years of wars, 15 years of the steepemiotic fight which was horrible to watch, right? That was a brutal, brutal fight. And then you have the second Cain fight, which was horrible to watch. And then I think there was a third Cain fight too, correct? - With JDS? - Yes. - Which was also horrible to watch. - Two tough fights back to back. - Bro, if you don't take Cain out in that first round, that storm never ends. Never ends. You're like, "We're gonna ride this storm out." - No, there was no ride. - Prime Cain was a mother fucker, dude. - I've always been conflicted with him in DC 'cause it kind of reminded me of a Marab and I. And I always said like, if DC stayed at a heavyweight, he could have arguably potentially have been the greatest heavyweight of all time. But I do know DC always says in the training room, Cain was the man, he was the guy. - Yeah, he told me he always Cain beat his ass. DC should have been a middleweight. - How about that? - I don't know, that guy's making middleweight. - He disciplined DC. - He hit me this chicken. DC went to Staggart's dad. If DC went to Staggart's dad for three years. - He's not gonna forget. - Yeah. - Forget three years. If DC made a middleweight, and he could have made middleweight, a lot of guys who are way leaner than him have made that weight. So I saw him at my UC debut. UC 170 at Mandela Bay in the back room, cutting weight, doing the workouts. And he looked like he was dying just to make 205. - Mm-hmm, true. - So I don't know how he would have done it. - Well, he would have had changes, diet, no more papas. - Yeah, no more nothing, no more garbage. And he would have had, I love DC too. He's my favorite person to do commentary with by far. He's the best. - He's fun. - We have such a good time. We have such a good time. He's such a fun dude. Like genuinely happy fun dude. Look at him, that's 205 DC. So 205 DC though, you're telling me that like Alex Pereira, if he was a bit like that, couldn't lose 20 pounds? Of course he could. - Yeah, I don't know. - 'Cause he's not, look, if you see the guys that fight at 85, like Joe Piper, Joe Piper is a giant. Did you drink his? Drick is duplicase, he's a fucking giant. - He's big. - He's gigantic. He looks like a heavyweight. - But look at him, he makes 85, what does that mean? He's sucking it in. (laughing) He could have made middleweight. He could have made middleweight. If he had like the real, if he just had the drive and did it as a lifestyle change and like did it over the course of like a year and like really leaned himself out, got on like a ketogenic diet, leaned himself out. - But then how often would he be able to fight? - Depends on how much he actually gets his body weight down to. That's the thing, like DC's only like 5/11, 5/10? How tall is he? - I'm gonna give him 5/11. - Maybe, maybe, I love him. - Maybe 5/11, 5/8. - But there's guys with his body that could have, but it's not like a thing where you can make the weight by just dehydrating yourself. - No, he's too big. - But if he had, with his frame, if he had slowly but surely leaned himself out and did it healthy, smart over like the course of a year, he'd have to take some time off and really just dedicate himself to just getting lean. - His gas tank would be better? Who's gonna fuck with that guy at middleweight? Do you remember what he was doing at Dan Henderson? Do you remember that fight flipped him like a burger? Bro, he threw him around like a rag doll and Dan Henderson's a monster. He's a monster, that guy's a beast. He's such a tank and DC just ragged all of them, just ragged all of them. - That was two or five, right? The Henderson came up, Henderson came up. - Yeah, you know, 'cause when I would cut down, and I wasn't always this big at 35, but when I would cut down to 35, I would have to do it in stages. So I couldn't do a three month turnaround like I did for the one fight. How much time do you need? - I need four months is ideal. - That's crazy. - It's so long. - 'Cause I could slowly get down and then I could start tripping away 'cause I'm at my natural state, I'm fat and happy. And it's not even fat. I'm just having my normal walking weight. And then I get down from 70, whatever, to 70. Then I get the next week or the week following. Down to 65, after that, I get down to 60. And that's like the optimal weight I wanna be at. And then I get to 55. And this is like where I'm gonna be when I'm stepping into the octagon. So to do that over the periods of time, I'm like, you could do it really quick 'cause I have the wrestlers mentality. I can do it fast, but doesn't mean everything's gonna be where it should be. And I also felt my cardio in rounds four and five. And comparison to doing rounds four and five in the training room, severely different. My gas tank, you would think I was morubbed, right? And just for comparison, say, right? And then I'll go into the fights in rounds four and five. I'm like, I gotta serve some energy. 'Cause I'm slowing down. I can feel it, but I'm trying not to show it. Is there a difference between when you were allowed to use the IV and when they took the IVs away? I use IV once. Only once. And I was in like 2015. I thought it was stupid. It's a forever to get it. And I'm like, I could have been eating right now. And I'm the same weight that I was when I was just eight. I'm like, I much rather just stuffed my face. I think the idea is that it hydrates you more efficiently. 'Cause instead of having to go through your stomach, it goes right into your veins. And then it hydrates your muscles more efficiently. I didn't really feel like a performance difference if I'm doing this. - Interesting, interesting. - But I'm different. Some people call me an anomaly and they say, you can't do what I do. I drink and train a camp and people think I'm crazy. - Really? - Yeah. - I drink the night before the fight. - What? - Yeah. - Come on. - I have one glass, sometimes two. - Really? - Three is like, we're getting crazy, but. - The night before the fight, after you've cut weight? - Yeah. - Why do you do that? - I'm not John Jones, 'cause that guy's built, I'm built different, but he's built different than me. - Well, I think John is just so fucking talented and so fucking smart that he was able to get by and dominate at a world championship level by putting himself at a deficit like that. Whereas if John, you say that, but John's a different person. He wouldn't be the same guy, he's wild. There's something about John, that's one of the reasons why he's so good is that he's wild. He's intelligent and wild at the same time. And that's why you can't compare. It's like, whatever makes you happy. When people, I remember Kyle Dakes said something like, he'll eat ice cream, not right before a match, but in his training, he said, because it makes him happy. I want to have a drink because throughout the training camp, I'm already going through this hard grind. After sparring and I feel like I hit a threshold where my conditioning is at a place where I want it to be. It's like a checkpoint. I'm like, okay, this is my checkpoint, I hit it. - Have you ever worn an aura ring or a whoop strap or any of those things? - Yeah, that thing's stupid. - Well, that thing's attacking me every day because of what it's saying is that the alcohol is affecting your sleep. - Stop attacking me. I'm like, I took that shit off and threw it in the corners and we fuck you with your facts. - Facts and data. - I remember I brought out Adrian Yannis. I brought him out twice. The first time though is for the Piotr Yann rematch. And he stays at my house for about a week. We spar, I think it was a Thursday. I'd take him to Johnny McGorries. And I bring him to my guy, Rishi. He's like Johnny McGorries. - It's a pub. - Okay. - I'm on Long Island in Massachusetts. They got two now, but I bring him over there. And the guy I talked to over there who I do it, Rishi. He's the man. He's good friends with wide men and Vellante from like the college days back at Hofstra. And he's a big MMA fan. So I love that. So instantly we kicked it off when I met him the first time. So I bring him over. and it's at the spa, I'm like, yeah, we're gonna get some food. We go there and then he sees me and I order a drink and I'm like, yeah, get one for him too. He was like, bro, what are you doing? (laughing) What are you doing? I was like, no, no, this is normal, trust me. He's like, he looks at me. He's just like, dumbfounded. He's like, you drink in training camp. Like it was the biggest taboo thing on earth. I'm like, yeah, dude, like we just had some good rounds today. This is my reward. You deserve one too. It was like, you're in shape, I'm in shape. Let's have one or two and I always get my Thai chili wings over there. And so whenever I go in Long Island, I'm finishing up a camp on the East Coast when I'm fighting home on the East Coast. Rishi always hit me up. He goes, we're gonna do the ritual. (laughing) Get the Thai chili wings, you get my IPAs. And yeah, but like I said, everyone's different. Whatever makes you feel comfortable. If you're gonna do it, you can't, like for me, like having a drink the night before the fight and people go like, you're not worried it's gonna affect your performance and I go, if I lose because of this one drink, I was supposed to win, point blank periods. - Okay, well let me push back on that. Imagine you're fighting a guy who you and him are like that. Neck and neck, neck and neck. - Most are. - Neck and neck, right? Neck and neck. And the difference is whether or not you got that extra REM sleep the night before, where you could push when you lay off, when you lay back on the gas, when you really maybe could like, if you were a little bit more rested, you could just one extra move, one extra transition, one extra guard pass, one extra attempt at a submission, one extra thing that gets you the round. You know what I'm saying? - I take my naps before the fight. I take my naps before the fight, recharge that battery. - Well listen, Ilya Tabori used to drink wine at the weigh-ins. He was weighing in, why he was cutting weight? - He was drinking wine, yeah. - Yeah, there's no perfect formula. - I mean, it also, there's something to be said for doing what makes you happy, always. - I think enthusiasm is a very important thing. Enthusiasm and joy is a very important thing. It's underrated. - Yeah. - So my friend Dennis Bazookiah, he just fought in the Albanian card, bad stoppage by the ref. And I like Jason Herzog, but bad stoppage, he said he tapped, he didn't tap. But I remember his second contend if he's cutting weight, and Maraba's having a party at his house in Vegas. - That tap, that was a weird one. - That tap was weird. - He went from locking his hands to finding his leg and pushing off the leg and he ruled it as a tap. - I just don't understand that tap. - I go, I go, Jason, we've, I've trained with Jason. And I'm not, I'm not attacking him 'cause I don't want people to think, I don't like to attack people unless they really deserve it. But I go, if you're not sure, 'cause he said he wasn't sure, he said it looked like a tap. So I go, if it, if you think it looked like it, you weren't sure, why not just wait? Because if it was, he would do it again. - Yes. - But his immediate action after pushing off the leg was to grab between his leg where you kind of lock your hand from the head and arm to hand. I have the hardest time ever finishing Dennis, and I'm a pretty good black bow in jujitsu, and that's a good position for me. And I had, I struggled, I could count on my hands, how many times I've probably finished him in that position. - It's also, it's the classic defense. - Yeah. - You grab the leg and that's the best way to prevent the guy from putting all the pressure on the neck. - Yeah. - With the head and arm. Do you ever go to, do you know what the impaler is? Any bravo calls the impaler? To get out of that position, you slide the knee to the sternum, and you finish with the knee on the sternum. - For the bottom guy. - For the top guy. So when the guy's defending, - Yes. - Yeah, you go knee to sternum. - It's fucking brutal, man. - 'Cause that's brutal. - You're being attacked on two different fronts. - Uh-huh. You're being crushed, your serms being crushed, and this defense does not work as good anymore. It still gives you a little bit, the grabbing the leg and looping over like that, gives you a little bit, but there's something about that crushing on the sternum and along with the squeeze of the head and arm choke. - Yeah. - It's nasty. - The difference with that, I would imagine you, at least when I've tried it, I try to get it before they get on their side. 'Cause once they're perpendicular with the ground, it's a little bit hard to get the exact-- - Of course. - Pressure point of what you want. And I go, I try this literally the very next day and I go, there's no way you could submit somebody with your ass in the air. You could be squeezing as hard as you want, but if your ass is in the air and this guy's on the side, it's gonna be really difficult to make somebody tap in that position. - Very hard. Depending upon your squeeze ability, right? - That too. - Did you see Amosov, when Amosov finished that dude, he did that thing, he's a nasty grappler. - Bro. And it's crazy 'cause he lost to Jason Jackson, and I'm not saying that as a slight-- - Bro, Jason Jackson. - But it's just like how good is Jason Jackson? - Jason Jackson's real fucking good. - And that's why you're making brother. He's not saying he's real good. He needs to be signed to the UFC 100, 100%. - That guy's crack. - And he took him out, man. He took him out, he didn't just beat him. - Yeah. - I wish he would've gotten myself out. - Cross-promote. - Well, I know that is not bad, man. - I know that's not gonna happen, but-- - I wish Santa Claus was real. - But I was like, why don't we just find out who's, make it like boxing, you know, where we could find out who's actually-- - So look at this, how he finishes. DC and I were actually talking about this 'cause he looks, he goes knee to the belly. See how he does that? Across. Now, if you're grabbing the leg, so if he was grabbing his leg, you would go knee across the chest and you put it right down on the sternum. But he did that to make sure he was flattened out. - Yes. - To make sure that he couldn't go to the side. But this dude-- - This is so good. - Wicked. - Joe, just look. He's like, I can't do anything about that. Of course he can fucking-- Of course he can break dance. - Bro, break dancing is a great base for Jiu-Jitsu. We had a bunch of guys, Richie Martinez, and Geo Martinez, these guys that came into 10th planet. We got back in the early 2000s. And we were all like, oh shit, break dancing. Like we never even thought gymnastics everybody knew. Like a guy who could do gymnastics, a guy who was like really good at tumbling, that kind of explosive ability and balance and control and body strength, totally translated to Jiu-Jitsu. But we didn't even think about it. Break dancing is kind of like a gymnastics. You know, these dudes are doing weird shit where they're on one arm with their legs lotus position above their head and they're hopping around on one arm. That's crazy, it is. 'Cause I try to do it. I'm like, yeah, I can't do that. - Eddie started doing break dancing practice as a part of like strength and conditioning training for Jiu-Jitsu. He started trying break dancing move. Eddie's so open-minded. He's always willing to like try something out. Like, think about Eddie's classes too. If somebody finishes somebody with something, Eddie will like stop the class. What did you do? And he's like, oh, I do this and I grab my foot here and he's like, okay, everybody look at this. Come over, come over. And he'll bring everybody over, he'll show it to us. Show us how you set it up and he'll show them how you set it up and they go, who thinks you think you can get out of this? Who thinks they gotta move to get out of this? And then they would all practice different ways to get out of this. And they go, well, what if a guy does this? What if a guy does that? And they break it down. Like, he is very, very like open to new moves. It makes his classes very interesting in that regard. You guys still trained? I don't. I haven't trained in a while. I was training with Gabe Toddle out here for a little bit but I got one knee man that just keeps fucking up and I do too many, I like to do too many things to wanna go through another surgery or to deal with something. I just don't wanna, it's like, everybody I know that gets to my age is still trained, gets a disc replacement, gets another surgery, gets another surgery. And then when you start getting like back surgeries or like, Matt Sarah just got a knee replacement recently, when you start getting to that range, it's like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. This shit's forever. Yeah. You gotta walk around. You gotta play with your kids. You gotta be able to go hiking. You gotta be able to do things. And if you break your body down, especially through grappling, I still hit the bag. I still train like kickboxing. I still do a lot of working out. I work out constantly. But every time I start doing Jiu Jitsu again, my knees start throbbing. Yeah, that's kind of similar to Owl. I quinta. Yeah. I always go like, I wonder how much more he had in the tank. But he could be the hell of a fight on no notice. Yeah, no notice. And the could be fans don't give him any credit for it. They go, he was playing with him. I go really, tell me one fighter who goes out there and tells you that they're just going to play with their opponent. Primetime Owl was a beast. He was a beast. And he was tough as shit and game, you know. Isn't he selling real estate now? Shout out to Owl, I had Quinta. Yeah, he's doing really well, man. Working together for a little bit, but then it got to the point when I was like, dude, I just don't have the time. I gotta make a decision. And that's when I started doing the rum company and everything. You see how fast time gets absorbed with things. Oh yeah, with everything, yeah. I wish I had multiple lives. So I could do multiple different things, multiple different lives. You might be in another dimension. Maybe, I would love to. But in this dimension, I have too many interests. I almost wish I didn't have as many things that I'd love to do. I could whittle them down to a few. Yeah, you know. I still want to learn how you do your spinning back kick. I throw mine, but I know you do yours a little bit of a different way. I remember the video you did with the GSB showing him how you do yours. But I like to spin. I like to spin to win. Listen, if it lands, the amount of torque that you get on spin, it's crazy. It's not good. What do you do different than the way I do it? I don't know. I know you're supposed to step Turn to heal, look over the shoulder, you can jump as well, you don't have to step. The whole thing is just getting it out in a straight line. And the problem with most people that didn't train like in a classic type one, no school, is that it's a circle. Circle can land. It can land and it can be really powerful if it lands, but it's not going to be as powerful as the way I do it. The way I do it is a turn. And then I always say spinning back kick when I do commentary because everybody understands that. Turning side kick is the way we talked about it in Dark Window. It's a turning side kick, so the side kick is straight. Yeah, I'm getting maximum amount of energy, maximum efficiency. It's the difference between throwing a punch like this. You can knock somebody out if you throw a punch like this, like a crazy arm punch, and you could hurt them and knock them out 100% of the time. And you could do that once and say that's the way to throw a punch. Or you could learn how to throw a punch, Tommy Herndt style, where you fucking turning your body into it, and you got all that torque and bang! It catches you on the end in a straight line, and Tommy would just starch people with that. Or Deonte Wilder, right? Straight. Straight down the pipe. That's the difference between a turning side kick and when people spin in a circle. So when you spin in a circle, of course it's going to have power. You have giant legs, your legs carry your body around all day long. You've got the pushing off the other leg. You're spinning with all your torso. Yeah, it's going to have power, but it's not going to have as much power as the way I do it. When I throw it, when it lands, it's everything's going in a straight line, and I'm pushing off my back leg, and I'm getting all my abs into it, my hips into it, and it's just straight to the side. And I know that if I hit you with that, you're going down where? You're going down. You're going to the hospital. Like you're not going to make it, man. Yeah, I saw you hit the bag, and I was like, holy shit, that's a fucking kick in a half right there. There's only one video of me online fighting. It's from when I was 19. I was at the U.S. Cup in Connecticut, and I hit this dude with a spinning back kick and send him through the air, send him flying through the air. And I knew the moment I hit him, I'm like, this fight's over, I turned around and just walked off casually, because I would like to do that, like, fuck with people's heads. But I knew that one move has too much power for your body to absorb. There's no way you can take it. It's just too much. It's like getting hit by a car. That's nasty, man. It's a nasty kick. Like when John landed on a steep A, yeah, just caved his body in. Like steep A is one of the toughest human beings is to ever walk the face of the earth, but it takes that to the body. Like that's, you're not going nowhere. You're not going to nowhere. And John so smart, like John practiced that specific technique because he was going up to heavy weight. He was like, I need something, because I can't knock guys out with one punch at heavy weight. I can maybe kick them with what's the most powerful kick, and he realized it's this spinning back kick. So we just drilled it. So three days a week, that's all he would do is just drill a spinning back kick. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. You've probably heard about BetterHelp before, but maybe you haven't heard from those who have actually used BetterHelp. That feedback can tell you everything you need to know. Go to betterhelp.com/reviews and check out the feedback from hundreds of people saying how much they love this service. It's easy to see why. You get started. All you have to do is answer a few questions. You'll get matched up with a therapist based on your needs. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time. See the reviews. See what stands out and see if BetterHelp is right for you. Visit BetterHelp.com/jre. That's BetterHELP.com/jre. Yeah. One thing about John, man, he's such a, like, his IQ has always been through the roof. His fighting IQ is crazy. He understands fighting. And I think that's what sets him apart from everybody else. He understands himself. If you look at him, he could go, I'm not probably going to knock anybody out a heavyweight with the way I punch, so develop something else and it worked. Then that's just reality. That's just the reality of his frame. I mean, you know as well as anybody. It's weird how some people can just punch. Like from the moment they get into the gym, the first time they're hitting the pads, like, what the fuck? It's a natural gift. Punching power is a weird natural gift. Yeah. And either you have it or you don't. And if you don't have it, you can only develop it so much. I'm still trying to figure out if I have it. It's physics, man. A lot of it is like the size of your hands. And my arms aren't that long. Yeah. It's like a Tuporia has like, he's not as long with his Tuporia. Big ass fists. And I always like imitate the Tuporia and the Conor McGregor. With a little Tuporia, he's like, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. It's like a funny shit. Well Conor's another example, like big fists, man. Yeah. Look at that dude's fists. They're giant. That's a big thing. Yeah, he got a little, uh, these hands. You got to do what you're going to do. These hands are meant for grabbing things. Yeah. Well, they're really good at that. So that's the beautiful thing about MMA as opposed to boxing. Like there's a whole bunch of different ways to finish a fight. Yeah. What did you think about the fight with Youssef before the fight happened? Like, in terms of like, uh, I used to text you like, like, asking like, your opinion, like, what do you think, uh, you know, um, so I was, I'm curious to know what your thoughts were before the fight. Obviously, I said, um, cause I know what I thought going into the fight. What did you think? Going into the fight. I thought it was going to probably be one of the hardest fights. For sure. We've trained together multiple times back in 2017. We trained together a couple of times within the last two years. And uh, I always knew he moved well on the feet, lateral footwork, great calf kicks. And I, I said to myself, if I get chopped down with a couple of these calf kicks early in the fight, it's going to be a rough night, especially if I can't move and do what I do, which is, I'm also good at lateral footwork. And he has those nasty knees up the middle that are very quick to end the fight or put you on skates and could get you out of here, right? And uh, he did submit me that one time. So I think that really gave him a lot of confidence coming into it. So those were my thoughts. I was like, for me to win this, I got to stay on the outside and then put pressure on him when I can put pressure on him, take away his calf kicks when I can, um, by putting him on the back foot, making it a little bit more difficult to land that calf kick with authority. Right. So that was my two cents on that. I knew if I could take him down first, um, it should go my way. Well, it worked. Yeah. It was a little easier than I thought it would have been, but um, I think you're a different beast. Yeah. I think it was tight. Yeah. I was like, Oh, I ain't playing for this. I didn't play for this one. Yeah. That was tight. Yeah. But you got out of it. And I think you're a different beast at 45. You know, I think you just have more resilience at 45, you're more durable at 45, more energy too. Yeah. That's where it comes from. It's again, I wish we could eliminate weight cutting completely from fighting. And I've had conversations with the UFC about doing it, but there's no real road map that makes sense. I think once guys get it ingrained in their head that they're going to cut weight, they're just always going to cut weight. They're going to, even if there is weight classes, they're just going to fight dehydrated. They're going to figure out a way to be bigger. I mean, we did it for wrestling, and we competed two hours later, sometimes an hour. But you're not getting punched and kicked in the head. That's the difference. That's why that's why I feel if they did same day wins, kind of like what you do for an amateur, you can get as big as you can get, which is going to be very little, maybe five pounds. So I go, same day wins, you're giving four hours. So this way they can eat and have a nice meal, digest, and then it can still warm up and have enough time to prepare for the fight. I think for the fighters on safety, you almost have to protect them from that. That's why they have the way in the day before. For their own safety, because these guys are just going to be stupid, and the fights are going to suffer. They're not going to be as good, because you're going to be more depleted. I just think there's going to be people that understand you can't cut 20 pounds the day of the fight and go and compete. I think that's going to be the end, like the end all be all, like you're going to come to the realization, like, hey, they'll just lose and then it'll weed out the people that are doing that. And then they'll go, okay, so that didn't work. I have to go up in the way class, and this makes more sense for me. Wouldn't it be better if we, look, we have random drug tests, right? They just show how many times you've been randomly drug tested. You saw that probably a lot. I know they have it on the website. You could check how many times people have been tested and whatnot. So it's just random. Now imagine if they did random, random weigh-ins. That would be cool. Yeah, but then the problem would be what happens the day of the fight. You know, like what do you, what if the guy doesn't make weight, what if you have a giant pay-per-view or a giant numbered card? Is that dead? Oh, let's say. You have a giant numbered card, and the guy doesn't cut weight or doesn't, doesn't make weight. What do you do? Do you still have the fight? I mean, we have the fight now. Yeah. That's a good thing. But I mean, what changes? It would be different if you only had a, cut a few pounds though, like if it's, so if you did it that way, random weigh-ins and then weigh-in day of the fight, even if a guy was heavy, like you weighed in, you know, 137 or whatever, you're like, well, you got to lose two pounds. Anybody can lose two pounds the day of, and it's not that big of a deal, if you're not cutting weight already. Yeah. If you're not cutting weight already in your fully hydrated, and you weigh in the scale at 137, 135 is easy. Or just penalize them. The same way we penalize them now. Yeah, guys, you're just going to take the penalty and fight bigger. But it's like you're ready, you're, like for me, if we did same day weigh-ins, I would have to fight at 155 pounds. There's no way, possibly even 170, because that's the weight class. 165 would be the sweet spot where it's like, this is nice, I don't have to cut, I'm probably gonna fight guys more likely in my size, and I'm gonna feel good, I'm gonna have the energy to compete, and I'm not dehydrating myself severely, or 155 where I could diet a little bit, I could still get down, I hold myself for a meal, step on the scale, I could have my meal, now I feel good, I go compete, but I'm not dieting all the way down to 135 pounds, 145 pounds, so that's a 10 pound gap, you see what I'm saying? So that's why I think the same day, it makes sense 'cause you're not as depleted, where it wouldn't be as severe, in comparison to what we're doing now. - I think that would be smart, but I think the only way that's really gonna happen, is if you have more weight classes, like at least every 10 pounds, I mean look at boxing, boxing has so many more weight classes than the UFC, how many weight classes are there in boxing? - Too many, there's a lot. - There's like every three pounds sometimes. - Well, the lighter weights, right, when you get down to like, out of weight, and straw weight, and fly weight, their fly weights are fucking tiny, their bantam weight is what? It's not 135, it's lower. - Yeah, it's like 126 or something, what's bantam weight? 118, that's crazy. Minimum weight, that's crazy. Imagine telling a lady of that in the bar, what do you do? - I fight. - What weight do you fight at? - Minimum weight. - I never even heard of that. - Minimum weight is crazy. - Yeah, I mean, but this is also why Manny Pacquiao was able to go up and win world championships in eight different weight classes, which is fucking bananas. - It's cool though. - It's crazy. But, so go back to that again please. So, look at the difference in the gaps when you get to the top. You got 122 to 126, only four pounds, one 30 and another six pounds, 35 and another five pounds. It's kind of random. Five more pounds to 47 pounds to welterweight, 47. That's another stupid thing that we do. Where we have, you have welterweight in boxing, which has existed since the beginning of time, and it's always been 147. Sugar Ray, Leonard, Tommy Hurns, all those people, Roberto DeRan, 147. Our welterweight, 170. Like, it doesn't even make any sense. - Yeah, come up with another name. - Yeah. - What's a welterweight? You just, it's something somebody made up. Doesn't even make sense. - I just think we're like the Americans versus the Europeans. We just want to go against the grain. Like, we have inches instead of centimeters. Like, what we use in metrics and pounds versus kilos. Like, we just, we just said fuck everything you're doing. We're gonna do everything different. We're just gonna challenge everything that you're doing. - There's a little of that too, but I think they just wanted recognizable names when they came up with weight classes. 'Cause remember, there was only two at one point in time. - Was it lightweight and, I don't remember, but when Frank Shamrock was fighting in his day, it was like 200. - It was like 200? - Yeah. - He fought at 200, and then there was a heavyweight. - So yeah, I don't even know. I don't know what those weight classes, I used to watch, but I didn't know shit. I just watched. - I think it should just be the number you weigh. It should be fighting the world champion at 170 pounds. That's what it should be. Like wrestling doesn't have names for the weight classes. - No. - You just have weights. - We don't. - We don't. - We just have weights. Like, this is stupid. The fuck is a wealthy weight? Well, the fuck is a straw weight? What's an atom weight? You know, shut up. What's a fly weight? - The fuck was. - You know, you don't weigh with a fly weight, is this stupid? Fly weight's a dumb name. The 125 pound champion of the world. The minimum weight is a ridiculous name. - Ridiculous. Nobody wants to be minimum weight. I'd rather fight fat, minimum weight. I'd never even knew that was a thing until just now. - Yeah, it's probably tiny little dudes. There's a few dudes that fight in Atomweight in one FC in their kickboxing division that are wild, man. It's incredible to watch. They're so fast. It's like they're defying space and time. You know, and they're super skillful. Yeah, there's the one guy I saw the Japanese fighter. No, not Japanese fighter. The guy doing a Muay Thai, the. Well, there's a Japanese fighter. The guy in Ryzen, who fought Apache Mix. Oh, yeah, dude. That dude's the least. The fuck was that? That dude was a beast. I was like, this guy's been hiding over here the whole time and the world doesn't know who this man is. This guy is a savage. Yeah, he lit Apache on fire. That was incredible. He's not a striker, but he's competent enough. But that was like, he exposed everything, every flow that he has as a stand-up guy, he took full advantage of it. And I was like, dude, this guy's fighting, like he's in the Matrix right now. There's a bunch of those guys that exist out there in the world now. You know, it's a different world that we live in. The Dagger standing guy, I think, is a lot of them. There's the guy fights in the PFL, Mega Med Off, who's fucking nasty, man. And he fights exactly like the guy who I think might be the best striker in the world, who's just a Muay Thai guy. Azadula, Iman Ghazaliyab. I think that's the guy. Yeah, I can't say that. Bro. I can't say that. It's a tough one to say. That guy's nasty. But this guy, Mega Med Off, did you see the PFL? I didn't get to watch it last weekend. He fought in the PFL, and he fights just like Iman Ghazaliyab. And they're both from Dagger stand. So, guarantee you these guys are training together. That was the one last weekend, right? Uh-huh. Yeah, we have one guy on that card. His name is Leivon. He's Nassie from Ossetia, the Culcus Regions. But he's a nasty striker. There's so many of those guys right now that are coming up that no one knows, and they're world-class. They're elite world-class fighters, and no one knows who they are. It's kind of crazy. Yeah. It's like the amount of world-championship caliber, potential world-championship caliber fighters out there never been higher. Imagine talking shit to that guy. [LAUGHTER] So, all because you didn't know who he was, and you're just like, "Ah!" It's a problem out there in the world right now. There's so many guys who can fight. It's supposed to be nice. Just be nice. Just be nice. Don't talk shit. Yeah. Don't talk shit. Everything will be OK. Yeah, I mean, how hard is it? So, tell me what you think about this weekend. Islam versus enger. So, what's fascinating about this matchup is how well Ian Gary can control the range. I think he's going to be much bigger than Islam in the sense of height. Reach advantage. In terms of size, I never thought Ian was the biggest weltway. I still don't think he is. Well, he can't be. He's so tall. He can't be thick. No, but in a sense, even when you're talking just from a weight standpoint, from what he was walking around at, and forgot what he told me he walked around it, but it wasn't cutting a whole lot of weight. I want to say, of the top of my head, maybe 10 pounds, which is why he's so healthy. Yeah, he has such energy. So, I go, you're cutting just this, and you're going out there and doing this to these guys, who are essentially bigger, heavier guys, but he's got the speed advantage. The thing about Islam, he's such a complete fighter. He could do everything. But this will be the first time he's got a test with a guy who's a long man, and can't he get inside, take him down? I don't think he's going to stand up and strike with him. He can, but I just don't think that's the path to victory against a guy like Ian. I don't think he has any plans of standing up and striking with him other than as a means to an end. Yeah, and his grappling is so high level. His Islam's grappling right now is at the top of the food chain. I always want to grapple with those guys. Just to see where I'm at. You should go over there. I remember when Al-Fuqabib, and Al might have been the only guy who was able to escape certain positions multiple times, where most guys, they kind of just could see the feet, and they just fold. And we were talking afterwards, he goes, I think you would actually do really well grappling with him. And I'm like, yeah, try and get me killed right now. [LAUGHTER] You try to get me killed by the bear. But whenever he said that, it kind of stuck with me. And I'm like, man, just from my own experience, not like an ego thing or anything like that. Just be cool to see. And I would like for them to put it on me, just so I can see where I'm at. See how my strength measures up with theirs, positionally. IQ, knowing when to transition to certain spots. Of course, the weight's going to play a big advantage. But it's still cool, because I grapple with bigger guys. I've grappled with why I'm in. And I always tell Chris, I wish we were the same size, because you would have been my main training partner, bro. Because that would have been cool. Kind of coming up that way. But obviously, Marab was my guy. I was my guy, Dennis. Well, having Marab was a training partner must have been an awesome advantage. Oh, it was the greatest. There's no replicating that. And I see guys outside of-- like, they'll watch. And they'll think like, he's kind of like all over the place. He's not really-- and then they'll go in there with him. But it feels a little different now. That you've been in there with the guy. It's a whole different beast to watch from the outside. You're like, what is he actually good at? But it's just like the chaos that he brings, always constantly challenging your nervous system, reacting to his faints, his movement. He's just always giving you something to think about. And I remember GSP talked about that. Just saying, you want to use your faints to challenge the nervous system, get guys to react. Because eventually, you start to slow-- Like in the beginning, we're quick twitchy, right? We can react to everything. We're super sharp. As time starts to go on, those reaction times starts to go a little bit slower. You don't react as fast or as quickly, and things that were landing, weren't landing or now landing. For us talks about that a lot. Yeah. I think that's where George got it. Yes. For us, very smart, dude. So, very smart, dude, when it comes to like strategy and understanding like what's going on with fighters and why they're reacting to certain things and what to do and how to counter. It's not guesswork. It's like a really intelligent, structured system of what to do. Yeah. You have to be like that. Yeah. I think some guys they train and then go and fight without any goal in mind. And I try to preach this because I used to coach at Longos a lot before, you know, running a lot of my own practices, training camps and stuff like that. So I took over the role of, you know what, we're going to add these two MMA classes in and when we come in, we're going to work on specific things from my fight and anybody who has a fight. And if I'm not fighting, we're going to focus on you guys. And even if I have a fight, we'll also work in positions that you guys need to work on. And I always try to explain to guys like when you're coming in, you should have a mission. Don't just waste an hour, hour and a half of training, just to say I trained. That's cool if you don't have a fight, but you should always be looking for something to get better at. Something that you can improve at when you're sparring it, hey, you're not just going in there to spar. It should be an intent. Your sparring partner should be looking to give you a look for the fight and you shouldn't be looking to be a complete asshole and kill your sparring partner because then nobody wants to spar with you, right? They're doing you a favor and you need the favor from them to get where you want to be to make sure all the things that you're drilling on the pads, drilling with your partners one on one. And then when you go into sparring, you put it in together, pull it from 100%, pull it down to like 70. This way you can work in real time. I call it guided discovery. I learned this at SUNY Cortland when I was studying to be a PE major. A guided discovery. Yeah. So you're working on certain things and say we're doing wrestling and you're learning the position. I show you a high crotch. You grab the tricep or you post it, you shoot the high crotch, which means your head is on the outside and I attack the leg. Two hands are now locked on that outside leg. My head is on the outside and I'm in a strong position in my posture straight and now you're learning defense. Okay. So from a defensive position, a guy shoots this shot super clean, super perfect. What are my choices that I can make? What are the options? I could turn the head to the inside, stuff the head. I could push the head further outside and stuff the head to the outside where his head already is and look to cut the corner or I could use my stuff the head and use my wizard or tightways, plug in the hip, stuff in the head and rotating my hips. And if he puts me down to the mat, what is my responses from that? So then you're chaining everything together and you kind of got a system of my responses. So I'm not just doing stuff based on instinct. Instinct is good, but you should also have instinctual habits, if that makes sense, like stuff that you know will work and then you fine tune it to know this is my line of defense. If he goes here and I fill him going this way, I go this way and if he's starting to turn the other way, then I know I need to do this and turn his head the other way, put my pressure on my weight in another position so that I can now create this space so I can escape and get my leg out. Right. And a lot of guys, they're not trained like that. They go in, they're sparring, they're just throwing a bunch of punches, maybe they're throwing set combos that they head on the pads, but how are you setting it up? Are you fainting, moving him towards the cage, looking for the gap where the octagon kind of changes, whereas no longer like a flat surface and it's cutting at an angle where you take away a little real estate and then you're trapping them where there's not a lot of room for them to get back from, but now you can set up your strikes and know where you're trying to go. But if I'm cutting him off and he constantly does this and he maybe juke steps me and goes back the other direction and I'm starting my combination now he's gone. So it's like how do you set up all these things that you know exactly where you want to go? Because he's going to have an option in the fight in real time, but in training is where you should be working out the kinks and understanding this and I truly feel this is one of the things I've done so well early on in my career and why I was teaching a class because I felt like the guys needed it. I was taking these guys down at will there was no resistance. I'm like I'm good, but how good am I actually because these guys just, they just don't know. They don't have the information. Okay, let's level them up. Now these guys are leveled up. It makes it harder for me. Now I have to improve what I'm doing and I have to bring a different approach. Okay. He knows how to do this now. So when I do this, I can't just to get an easy take down way. I'm just going to sit on to his, but he's now challenging me with the wizard stuff in my head, breaking my posture. Now I'm elongated. I'm on the ground. Maybe I'm on both knees. How do I readjust? Post my hand. Get high again. Attacking the legs, taking them back the other way or coming through the middle through the crotch and finishing a take down like what we call some people call it iranian or we call it all American finish, but there's just so many little nuances and I feel in my mind that people are still training just to train and I think that's the difference between understanding your timing. You know the same moves, but if I know how to react faster than you, I'm going to win that position or the situation every single time unless you throw caution to the win and it's just some random wild card that I just get caught by, which if I'm aware, the chance of that should be very, very low. Well, that's the benefit of teaching the people that you're training with everything you know that way you must come up with a new solution and you're forcing it. Not everything. What do you hold back? Not everything. Get close. But that's also world champion mindset versus someone who's just a fighter who fights and does well and is a good fighter, but there's so many times where I watch guys fight and I watch exchanges and they're waiting towards each other and throwing bombs at each other and one guy wins and one guy loses, but I'm like, this is not the ultimate way to do this. This is a, you can do it. You can be a battering ram and a blunt force object and you can get it done. You know, like we've seen so many fights that have just been an insane first round wars and then we've seen guys that just are slick and they're moving around and switching stances and doing wild shit that you don't expect and overwhelming the other guy's nervous system and not getting hit and doing things where you're like, oh my god, that's so sweet, that's so smooth and those are the guys that are going to excel and those are the guys that are going to really take it to the next level. And I think when you're talking about all these guys, like the caucus guys, the daggistani guys, so many guys that are coming up right now that are so fucking high level, like you can't have any flaws in your game anymore. You can't just be a guy who wades at someone and tries to throw bombs in hopes they land. Maybe that works on a regional scene. Maybe that works with training partners that are a lower level than you, but you're going to get pieced up if you fight someone who's really good. There's levels and levels and levels and the levels are changing all the time. The levels are moving up all the time. If you just go back to the ultimate fight or season one, that's 2005. That's not that long ago in regular sports. 2005 boxers look pretty similar to 2026 boxers, you know, pretty fucking similar at the world championship level. And I'm a main man. There's no comparison. It's nuts. Night and day, night and day. And these guys are getting better all the time. I see guys coming off the contender series, I'm like, okay, this guy looks like a world champion. Like right now, it's crazy that Ethan Ewing-Kid, that guy comes out of nowhere. Matrix. And he's fighting so smooth and so slick and so intelligent and the footwork and the fates and the movement and knowing what to do at any given time. And you're like, these guys are just so good now. They're so good. I was bummed out when he got hurt for that fight with Farah. That was a bummer. Farah didn't have a tough fight though, but I was curious to see how that one was going to go because in, to me, is the dark horse in that division right now. Yeah. Ethan easily. Yeah. Yeah, he's, the well maker fight was a big wake up call to people. And then he fought that Brazilian cat and just lit him on fire to undefeated guys back to back. And it's the way he did it too, man, it was so slick. And you realize like there are levels and these guys coming up right now, they're already at a level that's above and beyond world championship level 15 years ago. Yeah. It's crazy to fight in the UFC. And you know, 20 years ago, you would have said he was the goat. But what's fascinating is like, from a striking standpoint, you could see that and look at a guy and go, this guy is the real deal. But then you kind of wonder like, well, what happens later in the rounds if a guy does take him down and how can he adjust to those takedowns in terms of a cardio standpoint, lactic acid build up? Can he turn it around and still be as efficient, as effective? So there's so many like variables when it comes to things like that. And when people are game planning and approaching fights, those are the things I like to think about. First round, everyone is dangerous. Everyone is so skilled, but it's like, okay, if I can get out of the first round, what does the fight start to look like? How do I paint the picture? If it goes in this direction, he's able to get off a couple of these things and I'm beating up a little bit. What are my fallback defenses to try to turn the tide a little bit and get it back to going where the balls now back in my court? Well, that was why I was so interested in seeing what happens in the Conor McGregor Max Holloway fight, which was crazy. The result was ridiculous, but take that away. I was interested because I was like, if Conor can't take him out quickly, Max Holloway does not get tired. He does not get tired and he's so accustomed to that five round pace He understands when to hit the gas when to back off. He knows when to move when to and he's always moving inside It's like you want to talk about getting overwhelmed like max hallway overwhelms people with pressure pace and faints and skill Yeah, and he's not going anywhere You guarantee he's gonna be fighting in the fourth round just like he was fighting in the first round. He's not gonna fade It's it was more it what one of the worst matchups for Connor if he couldn't take him out of the first round How else I was hoping we got to see you more. I think the world was hoping we were hoping we got to see anything. We didn't see anything But it is it's crazy because he threw that same kick in the back room But this time he runs out of me throws in lands and it's like oh Well, he threw that kick when you're hitting a pad is very different than when you're kicking the air You never throw that kick in the air. You throw that kick jumping in the air the amount of torque that is on your supporting leg is bananas You're just hoping and praying that your knees stays together Look if you throw a jumping side kick that's a different thing You're landing on the ground you're landing in a linear way You're right when you're rotating and kicking and flying through the air at the same time and you're opponent adjust So you're trying to like change the arc and in mid air try to catch him as he's circling off It's the worst kick to jump and throw so I guess I'm doing that Would jumping roundhouse kicks Jumping roundhouse kicks are great if you're close enough to land them. Yeah, you know If you're close enough to land them. Who is that guy that landed it on Bonfim? No, not on Bonfim on on James Vick in Karate combat. Did you see that? He throws that jumping switch case. I mean guy. Yes Yes Gabriel the turn. What is his name? Alves Rafael Alves. I was close. It was one of the worst Chaos I've ever seen in my life. You've seen it. Why is James Vick still fighting? Oh, he likes fighting I guess oh He's only 37. I'm 37 my bad brother. He sat a lot of chaos my bad cuz Unfortunately, and this dude he hit him with this this jumping just right before that Well, he looks like a tank compared to him. Well, it's just the speed his speed is crazy James Vick is tall and very skillful too, but it's just this kick would have knocked him out at any point in his career Any point in his career and any human being like this is too much There's the the amount of force that he lands when he lands this kick when he throws that He throws the jumping roundhouse kick touches him with the right leg and then comes up top with the left and Just clean across the chin They doing some good stuff at karate combat. Yeah, man, well, Rob Ellis was fighting that right before that Jamie I think I had a little further head Gold to like right below it before where the Brazilian flag is Rebels combined fights in Karate combat was like what? Less than two minutes. I know he just there it is there it is. So let's watch that again back it up again So watch how he throws it boom. I mean it is clean shin to the jaw. I mean, there's no Why is he point at him? I don't know he took a shit and now he's bowing and praying well I mean he realized after it was over how serious it was so watch this touches him with the right and then the left comes I mean, it's literally perfect that probably would have killed him at any point in the time in his career and when James has been in the Mount of Wars that he's been in and he had his the canvas is the worst he could have died That was one of those ones where he could have died Because I think he was in the intensive care for quite a while after this fight. Really? Yeah, he was hospitalized for quite a while after this fight I think it was pretty pretty serious. That sucks. It was a bad head kick. That was a bad one. It's a rough sport It's a rough sport and there's time fighting you don't play there's times where guys get KO'd and they're never the same again You know like Terry Edom when Edson Barbosa hit him with that wheel kick. Yeah, Terry Edom was a real contender before that fight And we never really saw him after that. They never really achieved those levels again. I don't even did he even fight after that? Maybe once maybe maybe I don't know not sure But that fight essentially ended his career because it was so I mean and again That's one of those kicks that with the wheel kick us so much torque bro. I I remember my fight with Marlon and I Thought I was gonna be one of those guys. I was so Like I don't say paranoid, but nervous concern any Agitivity you can use to describe it. I was just like man after the fight after the fight of getting hit like that Yeah, yeah, I don't have to get hit like that again if I could even take a shot and Mind you I have my physed degree. I couldn't win just been a gym teacher I would've been some resolve pension that would have had health insurance the whole nine and I decided to chase a crazy dream Thankfully worked out and I'm blessed for this life and all that good stuff But after that fight man to tell you like The concern I had if I would be able to make Another two paychecks. I was like I'm gonna do one more whatever happens happens if I get knocked out. I'm just done I gave it a good shot of roll the dice. Thanks for coming. See you later. Thanks for the memories, but Thankfully it worked out and I was able to keep on pushing Remember after that if I didn't spar for like three months and the next fight I had a lot of people think you should take even more time off than that I'd needed the money and that's the shitty part about this this gig You need the money. You need the money. I'm I'm living in New York at the time. So Long Island's fucking expensive and I'm subbing as a teacher. I'm coaching rustling and When the training camp came up I was fighting bread johns undefeated three and only UFC just came up with a 30-second cast slide for slicer submission over Joe Soto Mind you Joe Soto submitted me Probably I think five times in five minutes So I'm looking at this guy like this guy is a wizard. You know the reason this is my perception of him going into this fight And I told the guys and I'm gonna spar these last three four weeks I'm gonna I'm gonna just circle and I'm gonna wrestle like you guys try to hit me But just know I'm I don't want to get hit in the head But try to hit me. I still want to have like my awareness But the whole that whole last three four weeks everything was just grappling before that striking hit and pads cardio I was like I'm gonna just use my footwork and whatever I could do and Thankfully, it worked out how much time between the Marlon fight and that fight was a April December 9th 2017 so it's four months just about yeah Which was scary it was scary. They offered me to fight. I was like I don't know if I'm supposed to be doing this right now But I kind of need the money. So well, you needed the money, but if I could give an advice to like Vulcanovsky I would have said first of all would have said never take a fight with Islam a conscious of on 11 days notice That's just crazy never especially when you're not training at all you just kind of chilling and You take a fight with one of the best pound for pound fighters for not the best On the planet and you get head kicked and then to fight Ilya just a few months after that. It's kind of crazy Yeah, and he he was looking good in that first round until Ilya does what he does traps you against that black line against the cage and he puts those combinations on you and puts the lights out and Yeah, I I agree he should have taken more time hundred percent. He would have been okay with taking more time You've got to take more time you have to you just have to realize that as tough as you are your body is a machine And if the machine's broken it's got to be repaired and it's gonna take time to repair It's not as simple as like go to the shop. You get a new carburetid good to go You got to you got to give your body time to heal and with the head. It's hard because you don't know Yeah, it's the wild card. Yeah, it's like and everyone is different Mm-hmm And I kind of wonder if that's something to do with like the way people grow up if maybe they dropped on their head a couple of times When there are kids with short football play football in high school get KO to a few times doing that You know you get KO'd a few times doing stupid shit with your friends and then you get older and now you're trying to compete and you realize I can't take a shot Yeah, as much as I thought I could have been like you see a guy like Diego Lopez and you're like, dude You got his his chin is granite bro. It's like What can you hit him with that can actually put him down? It's crazy Well, if he continues getting hit there'll be a time Well, I remember Chuck Ladell Chuck Ladell in the early days was bulletproof. He was bulletproof He was just weighed at guys bite down his mouthpiece each shots to the head and take guys out and he didn't give a fuck He's he did full confidence in his chin and would force guys into these chaotic wars and Then it goes away and then one day you get hit and it just goes Left hand broken hand from Rich Franklin That hit Chuck Well, yeah, he broke Rich's arm. Yeah, and then yeah, and with that broken hand He hit him. Is that what he knocked him out with the broken arm from what I remember That's what he hit him with that left hand and put him out and I was like that was he was done at that point Yes, Chen was done. I mean after rampage Kate out KO to him. That was kind of that was the big one That was a nasty one. That was a nasty one. Yeah. I always wanted to be like the mini rampage But I was like, but I'm not knocking anybody out. So it's Sorry to do that rampage with the chain and the wolf. Yeah, oh Always wanted to do that. A rampage did it all natural whereas everybody else was doing juice Especially in pride, you know, he was fighting all juice monsters. Everyone was a juice monster in pride. Yeah, you know It's different time back then. He still has the craziest slam KO of all time of all - A rona, right? - Yep. When a rona didn't let go of the triangle. - Yeah. - And he'd take some over the top of his head, like a pillow, and slam them down. - Oh my God. - That was another one. A rona was never the same again after that fight. - What about cyborg? - And that knee from MVP. - That was the craziest. - Fucking dent to his cranium. - Crushed to his skull. - Literally crushed his skull. - Broke his skull open. - So, this is gonna sound like a joke, but I go like, what do you do, plunge it, to pull it back? - You gotta get constructed. You ever see what they did to it? - No. - You put all these plates in his head. Yeah, he had all sorts of screws and plates and everything, the pieces head back together again, 'cause the skull structure has been compromised. - What does it do to your brain? Your brain is now squished. - Not good. - Not good. I mean, he said after the fight, I'll be back, but everybody's like, "No, you won't." No, that's what it looked like. I mean, that is literally crazy. - Yeah, bro. I saw a Muay Thai fight recently online where a guy did that to a dude with an elbow and he caved his head in and you see like this giant hole in his forehead, where his head's dented in. And the referee was like, stop the fight. He's like, "Why are you stopping the fight?" He's like, "Bro, you need to see what you look like. "You're not seeing what I'm seeing." - Yeah, your head's dented. Your head's broken, like you have a broken head. It's amazing how few times that's happened. If you think about it, yeah, this is it. - Look at that. - Oh, that might be worse than the other one. - It's right up there. If you back it up, you can see the elbow to do lands right there, boom. - That was it. - And then he looks at him, he's like, "Hey." And then the referee gets a look at it. And the referee gets a look at it. As soon as the referee sees it. - It almost doesn't even want to hit him again. He's like, fuck. - Yeah, I mean, he's crazy. - The referee stops, he's like, hold on a second. Let me get a look at you. It's like, you should stop, devil. - My friend. - Brings him to the doctor. - What's going on here? Tomahawkdom. That was what was so impressive about Zanyukov. Chonko and his, John Pork? - Yeah. - What did they call that? - I have no idea. Chonko, they call him Chonko because that's his town. That's the town we grew up in. - Okay. - But man, that dude's elbows were so slick. - He's slick. - He's slick. - Fun to watch. - He's slick. His elbows in the clinch and in tight. He's a Muay Thai world champion. That was his original discipline, which is interesting. When you see these guys who start off as strikers, and then they get to Dagestan training room with Khabib and Islam and all those guys, then they learn the wrestling. But they start off with just this elite level of striking. - Yeah. - And now the guy was in bed. - He gave back some resilience, but-- - Oh yeah, man. He dropped him, remember? - Yeah. - Oh, no, that was his first fight. Yeah, no, he didn't drop him. That was his first fight in the contender series, he got dropped. He's a dangerous guy, man. Super dangerous. Kanko's fucking, he's for real, man, and so high level with his striking. His striking is just so elite, especially those elbows in tight, man. Elbows are nasty. - I'm like Chelsea, and I can't let you get close. I can't let you get close, because now you're not about to do that to me, bro. I ain't trying to look like that. - I want to continue my acting career, and I got a whole lot of things I want to do, but it's going to be a little tough if you get a couple of those. - Yeah. - What, elbows? - It's kind of funny that your gloves protect your hands, but not your elbows. - Or knees. - Or your knees. Or your shins. - It's kind of nuts that we have. The padded thing is the thing that's the least likely to hurt you, if you really think about it. - It's a crazy sport. - It is. They're crazy. - Sometimes. How much longer do you think you're going to do it? You're 37 now. - Yeah, you must be thinking of it. - You must be thinking how much more am I going to do this for? - Yeah, you know, I'm just taking it one fight at a time. I would like to end my career with a UFC, hopefully I get it as an option that you might not. I don't know. You never know what's going to happen. If somebody comes up with a big number, no, not even that. Like you just never know, like I know I sometimes piss off the brass from time to time. - Do you? - I guess I've been told this. - How? - That I sometimes I don't say the right things, I'm very honest. - What have you said? - I'm very honest persons. So sometimes I just tell how I really feel about certain things and people, these media outlets they know what they're doing. They're asking me these questions because they know I'm going to tell them the clickbait clips that they want. - Who are you talking about specifically? - Which one? - The media outlets that fuck with you. - All of them. - I'll try to give you a second. - They all, all of them. They ask these questions. They'll go from fighter pay and I've been in the headlines from fighter pay many times. - Many, many times. - It's a legitimate argument. It is. But for some reason when I talk about it, I am, and maybe because I'm not the crazy guy like a Sean Strickland, because Strickland has talked about it and he's always been, he's known as the crazy guy. But when he talks about it, he makes it a very logical understanding bit where I go, "Welcome, he's not getting, maybe he is, maybe I just don't know 'cause I don't ask." But I'm like, for some reason when I say it, I feel like I'm a little bit more screwed nice. - So what does the UFC get upset at you? Do they say that they're upset at you? - You don't have to talk about this if you don't want to. You feel like this is a real issue. It's going to get in trouble. - No, we haven't. - We have a great relationship. - You, look, when Yvluev and Alexander Hanna, when they fight, this is very soon. Okanovsky is defending his title against, finally, Yvluev, that fucking guy has been waiting for it ever. - Yeah, for ever. - For ever. - So I don't really know who's the clear cut guy for me to face unless his Leroy Murphy. I was told he was hurt. - I think he's booked. I heard Leroyne's got a fight. - I heard he was hurt. - Oh really? - Yeah. - Maybe he had a fight scheduled and it doesn't anymore. - Yeah. - But I thought he has a fight coming up. - Yeah, I was told he was hurt, so he's going to be out for a couple of months. I don't know how long. I don't know how serious of an injury, but everybody else is booked and who did he just lose to? - Leroyne. - Mozart. - That's right. - Which was crazy. I thought that fight should have been scored a draw. - Did you? - With the point deduction. Should have been scored a draw. - What was the point deduction for? - I think it was a low blow. But they gave him four rounds. They gave Mozart four rounds. - I'd have to watch it again. I didn't think it was a bad decision when I saw it. - It was a competitive fight. Mozart didn't decide to wrestle him until the end of round three, and he just goes to show he could have taken him down any time he wanted. I'm saying fuck. - Well, I think Mozart wanted to show his striking because he does have striking. - But because of that, he made it more controversial to the overall fan base because he decided to use his wrestling a lot later on in the fight. - Yeah, but I think he needed to show that he's not boring. - But to get a shot at the title, and now he's got a shot at the title. - But the standoff fight between rounds one and two was still like, there's nothing happening. - I thought it was pretty good. - It's a chess match. - It wasn't chess, but I think it was opening up LaRone to shots that I don't think he expected were coming at him because I think he probably anticipated to take down temps instead. Most far was getting off on him. - Yeah. - It's strike. He can. But it's like you. And I do it when you're better at grappling if you can get a hold of him. Why do it? Why roll the dice? And when people say, like a lot of people were upset when Marab beat Shugashan. And they were saying like, that was boring, that was just like a lesson. This is the sport we're watching. If a guy like Marab can take you down and give you nookies for five rounds and you can't do shit and you lose your title, that's how it goes. You can't say that's boring and he should fight differently because Shawne's got to come up with a solution. He's got to figure out how to deal with that. - Salos makes fights. It's about the story. - Yep. - How'd you do against this guy? It's on my character versus Ian Gary. Same thing. How does he do with this guy? Conor McGregor versus could be Nirmaga Medov. Same thing about the storyline. Conor was protected his whole UFC run. Now he's fighting a good high level grappler, probably arguably the best grappler from the top position, clinch position. - Ever. - Ever. And it's the storyline. Can Conor McGregor overcome this? Can't he land a perfect shot? It's what gets you to buy into it. But if you're going to be pissed that the machine is going to come in and your guy can't land the perfect punch, who's fault is that? It's like, but this is why you're watching. You're not tuning in to watch a slaughtering of the lambs. You want to watch a competitive fight. If you just want to watch one side of fights, I don't know, like, what do you want? - Yeah. I mean, it was one-sided in that he was able to take him down at will. But also the problem was Sean fought that fight with a fucked up hip and really probably showed him in fighting. Like, he had a tear in his hip. - Yeah. But we all have stuff. Of course, I went to the fight with Sean, injured, coming into the fight. He gets injured during the training camp and then he uses that. I had a busted rib. I go, bro, we all have stuff. But you were in a better position to win this fight than I was coming into the fight. - The same thing. When did he hurt his hip? I don't know. But then they fought again and it was worse. - It was worse. - So, well, Murab was like super confident coming in the second fight that he was going to be able to take him down. And then also, he had that championship level confidence. - Oh, of course. You get that level up. - Get that level up. - Yeah. So it's like, it's not knock and Sean, it's not knocking the fans. But it's like, you know, this is the game that we're playing. No one's coming into this. I was talking to the guys that waisted well. They're like, it's fascinating how many of you guys are so beaten up. [BLANK_AUDIO] I'm going down a list of my injuries and everything I got going on, I've got to MRI for this, I've got to MRI for this. This hurting, that's been bothering me for two years. This has been still ongoing and I still go fight and you will never think it, but that's just what it is. We gotta do what we gotta do. We're never gonna be a hundred percent going into it. - A hundred percent goal sports. - Guys that fought in world championships with blown out knees and won, you know? I mean, when Alex Pereira beat Eerie Pahasca, he had a fucked up knee in the first fight. - Yeah. - And that's why when you see him get on top of him and he's finishing him, he rolls over, like rolls instead of stepping up and standing over, he rolled off of him because his knee was blown out. - Carlos Oberg. - Yeah, that was crazy. But that was on Eerie. - That was such a blunder. - Such a blunder. Well that's Eerie's craziness where it's not good. You know, some of Eerie's craziness is great. Like when he fought Jamal. - I felt for him so bad. - I did too. - Because I was just like, as I'd like to say and I wanted him to win, but I felt for him like, damn, bro, you made the biggest mistake that you could have possibly made in a situation like that. - It's literally the only thing you can hit you with. Fuck it out. And he lends it. - It's the only thing you can do with. - He doesn't have a right leg. His right leg is completely gone. But he could still throw that left hook, you know? - That's his best punch. Lightning. - I always tell people, the way he leads up that he just leaves out that lead hand and he's measuring stiff jab and he's stepping back and he takes that side step pivot, that else stepping in. Boom! It's just, he's clean with that. - That division is on fire right now. - How about Navajo Sterling? - How about to say what? What happens with those two guys? - Oh, I know, but the same camp, no. - I know. - He just be blow hovets. - What happens? And he stopped them. That was crazy. - I know, watching that was extraordinary. I was like, this kid is something. He's something, man. That right hand was, woo, the distance he covered to land that right hand too. And Yon's got a chin made out of iron. To take Yon out like that and drop him like that. Very, very, very impressive. - He's 43 now. - Yeah. So it's also, I'm not taking anything away from him, but it's like, I think that's how old-- - This is Glover was when he beat him. I mean, Glover was like 42 when he won the title. - Fuck. - He was in his 40s. - It's doable. - It's doable. - And he ain't easy, but it's doable. - Yeah, it's not normal. I mean, Glover was the boogie man for six years before he could ever get to the UFC. Everybody had talked about Glover, like he was scary, but he was trapped in Brazil. He couldn't visa issues. He couldn't get a visa to come to America and fight. And during those six years, he might have been the best light heavyweight on the planet. - Yeah, I remember you took, 'cause when he got signed, he got signed pretty, was like late 20s, maybe 30s. - I think he was in his 30s. - Yeah, and I didn't know about him until he came over and made that debut. And was he his Fabio Maldonado, I think, maybe? - Mm-hmm, but yeah, so sometimes it just goes like that. Even like Prairie, he came over so late, started so late, I should say. And for him to do what he has done in such a short amount of time is like unreal. - Unreal, yeah, pretty extraordinary. How impressed were you with Cyril Gone though? - Very. Very heavyweight can move like that dude. - Zero. And that's the whole thing with the aspirin off like that, I was saying. I was like, this guy played basketball. It's a different type of athleticism. Quick Twitch muscles, notice how to pivot, fake his juke's, it's like plyometrics. Like a giant man plyometrics. - Yeah, and he's great at just holding the range outside of the eye pokes, but great at holding the range. - Also, the dude never gets hit. Most last time we saw, I mean, think about, Gone is fighting in the heavyweight division. He's fighting guys like Tai Tuivasa. He's fighting, you know, these elite guys, these big heavyweights. And you'd never see him get cracked. Even against him Gone. - I'd say even against him Gone, he didn't get cracked. I mean, that's kind of crazy that he's so good at avoiding getting hit. He is probably like the least hit clean heavyweight in the division. I think that fight with John Jones made people think less of him than what he actually is. - It's just that's how good John Jones is. I'm like, he can't do that. - That's how good John Jones is. - He can't do that, it's not the same. - Especially if John gets a hold of your neck. He's gonna finish it. The way he did it, you know, taking him down like that in the first round and guillotine in him and phenomenal. But it's just you have to deal with that speed and that movement standing up before you could ever get that to happen. And John figured it out. But I think Cyril has tightened up his take down defense considerably since that fight. - Yeah. - Because I think you realize like this is the big hole in his game. I know he brought in a lot of real big wrestlers. But when it comes to kickboxing, when it comes to Muay Thai, he's so hard to fuck with. And that style's different than everybody else's style. - He's nasty. - Light on his feet. He does a weird thing too from his side. Yeah. That front kick. - Yeah, see, I've been watching. - That twisting front kick from the front leg. - It's the way he stands. He stands almost like this bladed. But it's not really bladed, but it is. And it allows him to have that dexterity and the flexibility way he could just look like he's throwing a front kick. But he throws a twist. - It's a twisting kick. There's a kick in Taekwondo called a twisting kick. And that's what it's like. It's from this position. You throw it out like that with the ball of the foot. So you're standing completely sideways and your front leg comes up and it twists and goes like that. And that's what he's doing to the body. He's throwing a twisting front kick to the body. - It's nasty. - See if you can find it in here. Well, that's his round kick. But it's off of his front leg. He throws it off the front leg. And he throws it completely sideways. And when you get to moving, he's gone. - Yeah. - And then, and also you might try to like overemphasize those movements and he counters catching you coming in because he's faster than you. And that's what he did to Alex. He caught him with the jab. I mean, that's what he really rocked him with. It was the right jab. - Alex was big. - That's rich. - It's freaking ass. I was like, you know, this is like distracting, bro. You got a fucking pedunca dunk at this fucking block. Blocking my vision of the screen right now, Alex. Like move, turn the other way. It was the worst matchup for Alex to step into heavyweight. A guy who is bigger than him naturally moves faster than him and lighter on his feet and is also an elite striker, a world championship caliper striker at a heavyweight level. Cause like, you know, Alex has been 185. He's a thinner guy and he definitely put on mass to get up to 250. But that's not necessarily where he was naturally. Where a serial gaunt has a natural frame to be a 248. - And he's more stationary. The stationary guy's never do so well against the guys who can move very well. It's just hard for you to chase him down, track him down to learn the perfect punch, had a hard time landing his calf kicks, which slows fights down for him and allows him to land that big chama left hook. I don't know, even if they were to have a rematch, I don't know what he would have to work on to make that adjustment. That's just a hard fight for him. - It's always gonna be a hard fight for him because serial gaunt's so agile. - He's so hard hit. He's never in front of you. Unless you caught him, like maybe through those high kicks right in the beginning, he could have caught him with something like that, rocked him and that would have been a different story. But he didn't, you know? And Serial's like, he's great at blocking shit too. You know, if you get to him, his reflexes are excellent. - Yeah. - And it's just that movement and speed is extraordinary. It would have been very interesting to see what happens if the aspirin all fight didn't end the way it ended. - That was a heart breaker. - It was a heart breaker. - I got a lot of flack for that 'cause people were saying I should have taken his side because I got a foul too. And I'm like, I'm not not taking his side. What I'm saying is the only person that knows how bad he truly was hurt is gonna be aspirin all. - Yes. - You know, so if he's saying it, I take it at face value, it is what it is. I can't go and say, I'm in your eyeballs, I've seen guys get poked all the time and they continue. Yes, we've seen it all the time, but not all eye pokes are created equal. - No, and he got all of them three studious fingers up and down his neck. - Till it's not cool. - Yeah, it was bad. - Terrible. - Terrible. - Like, I can only take what he's saying. I was like, but again, it's really up to him. Can he have said, if he was winning the fight, my pushback was devil's advocate. If he was winning the fight and having his way, would he have said, you know what, I'm gonna suck it up and try to fight through this, even though I still can't see. You never know. If he was having, I don't think he should. And especially for a foul, I think he made 100% the right call because look, he didn't lose that fight. It was a foul. Although controversial, he doesn't get knocked out. He doesn't get head kicked. He doesn't get flying in the face. If you can't see out of one of your eyes, there's all sorts of shit that's coming from this direction that you're just not gonna see coming. And in wild exchanges where your peripheral would catch it and you would duck under, you're not going to be able to see it. And you're gonna get rocked. And it's also you're thinking now, oh my God, I can't see out of one of my eyes. Fuck that, he did the right thing. He did the right thing and I think, you know, he should have got more support. He should have got more support from everybody for that. - From everybody. - From everybody. Yeah, I mean, I tried to give him as much support as I could. I think he got fouled and they did the right thing. And I think you gotta take one point away every fucking time someone touches an eye. One point every time and they won't do it anymore. - It looks like he's doing better now. I'm hoping he gets to compete again this year. - Two fucking eye surgeries, man. - So that, remember when you got knocked out by him all in the rise, in the back of your head, you're like, oh shit, I can't get hit. How about him, two eyeball surgeries? And now every time a finger comes towards his eye, he's thinking about his eyes losing his eye. Look at Michael Bizping, he doesn't have an eye. He has one eye that's missing, right? So you got to think that am I going to not be I'm going to look at my kids through one blurry eye for the rest of my life It's fucked. That's fucked. You know, it's it's so For the being the position that he's in right now is kind of terrible I want to talk about the Islam fights For this weekend for 330 Can we take a piss break? Yeah? We'll be right back and we're back. Jamie pull up that card the the one this weekend So we take a look at it. Yeah, um, what do you think about the Ian Gary is long fight if you had to predict If I had to predict on the UFC desk and they put you on the spot. Okay Islamites have did a really good job neutralizing JDM's boxing didn't really give him an opportunity to do anything he chopped his legs away with the the calf cakes Control them in a clinch the takedowns were relatively easy. He didn't even really have to set it up with like hands He kind of just shot and just took him down and will Ian Gary now on the other hand, he's done a good job of showing takedown resilience We saw that with Bala Muhammad is Bala Muhammad Mark a chef. No, no, he's not no But it definitely showed something he did a good job with Shafkat as well. Who's a bigger guy? Was able to defend a bunch of times I forgot if it was Shafkat who had his back, but he was able to defend Shafkat's the guy who beat him So Shafkat is the one lost that he has and it was the grappling that Shafkat got him with But he also blew out Shafkat's knee. Yeah, like that's why Shafkat has had all these surgeries and oblique kick Mm-hmm that kick is so nasty That's the one thing that I wonder like should we not have that you don't like any? I remember you don't really like that one. It's you can't I mean you can defend it by not getting hit by it But the problem is if you get hit by it like Khalil round tree and Modestus Bokakis when he went all turned his knee sideways He stomped that thing stomped it and that's that's a career changer like it could be a career Ender Bokas Bokaskas came back, but this is two years now, right? Yeah for for Shafkat that he's been out. Yep He said multiple surgeries. He had he had it done and then it blew out again and how to get it done again Yeah, I just don't know the the range the reach of anage I think Ian does a great job of using his lateral footwork. Mm-hmm It's not the fastest guy. No, but well, he is he's imposing. He knows how to cut you off That South Paul stance. I think causes some problems for a lot of people. He's only lost what one time to the to the Adriano Martins with the heckic knockout a punch was it a punch? Yeah, he got punched. Oh, there was a heckic but either way I think Ian's gonna have to look to something like that see if there's maybe some of those old tenancies that Punch was able to land that was also such a younger version of Islam I just don't see him making those mistakes again. Yeah, that was a long time ago How does Ian win he's gonna have to point fight and sit on the outside and hope not to get tired going backwards the whole time Right, and he got tired doing that against Carlos Brothers. So This is a tough one for for Gary. Can he get the upset? Of course. It's fighting. We just saw this with Gachi and Toporia But I would say Islam has the one sure cut way to win pushing him against the cage take him down and even if he parses him against the cage I'm curious to know if to curious to see if Gary can do damage in the clinch Whenever I'm in the clinch with somebody I always tell the guys look for your knuckles and hit the eyeball Hit the nose hit the soft spots. That's gonna make this guy uncomfortable in the clinch not looking for his foot sweeps Where he's comfortable just resting on you? Looking to set up his take down his next transition And I learned this from Brian Carrey my first pro-laws in the UFC After being five, you know we clinch. I take him down But in the clinch while I'm going for the single leg. I have his leg up in the air He's leaning over my back and he's taking his knuckles and he's just hitting me in the eye Swirl up my whole eye. I was like what the fuck is he hitting me with and I go back and I wash a tape and I get to see and I learn that So I always like sure like share these little tricks and stuff with guys while I'm teaching them So if Gary could land some good damage in those positions Kind of deter is I'm a little bit or make him a little bit more sloppy on his finishes It could cause some chaotic scramble is where he could potentially get to a good position And maybe we see islam on his back again kind of like what happened with vogue and when he was there with vogue it did not look good Right, and of course is round five. So it got to be fair It was also a fight where the time was all fucked up and he didn't have as much time to rehydrate. Oh, yeah They did say say something. Yeah, it was not he didn't he was compromised in that fight because of that because he didn't have as much time to hydrate because they're fighting in australia, and then we're trying to fight on us time um This one is the one that I'm really excited about too Cuz jillie is so fucking good on the ground. Mm-hmm top position even off of her back McKenzie Durn is great off of her back the top position to um She's more decorated in terms of like the the jiu jitsu space On the feet she's more reckless like she's throwing caution to the wind because she doesn't care She's not afraid to get her pretty face messed up. She's gonna go in there and go after you. She's just attacking Yeah Jillian on the other hand not as physical on the feet Um, not a big puncher not a big kicker She sets everything up looking for the takedown or the cleanse to take you down get to the back But when she gets there and she gets you down she her ground a pound It's nasty the question is is she gonna be able to do it to a world champion like McKenzie Durn to a good position Yeah, like some of those other girls she gets the back mount or full mount and she's able to land these Solid elbows beat them up in that position. McKenzie's a jiu jitsu world champion exactly. It's a different different world That's gonna be interesting. It's gonna be interesting. Um go to the other rest of their card go back to it Cuz uh, I'm interested to see how uh Abdul Malik recovers from his last bite Again, I was so big. Bulgaria. Bulgaria is a monster, too There's that's a guy in the 185 found division. That's a real fucking problem. Yeah, he's a world class striker He has a victory over Pereira in glory. Yeah, that is that's the yeah, that's the guy. Yeah, one victory I think he got starched in the rematch But the thing with with um Malik is He was trying to go for the takedowns but the setups were like in my opinion from a recess standpoint So I may be a little bit unfair with this criticism, but I just didn't think that they were that good and um He was also dealing with striking that was like way above and beyond him Yeah, and that that was part of the problem is that in the transitions like trying to get close to him You're dealing with the guy who's gigantic. He's one of the tall skies in the division He's so fucking big for 185 so long and saw tall and on top of it world class striker And he's coming into his own as an MMA guy and part of the reason is because he's down there in Connecticut with With uh Glover and with Alex and he's doing camps with those guys all like his grappling's now on point Much more confident on the feet much more stable But before that I thought Mancer was a real potential world champion Yes But it's just so crazy you can see somebody in one fight and I see him in the next one He's just like all right. It was a bad loss to it was a bad one wasn't good He got a lot of like see you can find that fight let kicks Did jabs he got beat up and so it was the thing was the amount of damage that he took because he's so tough The amount of damage he took before they stopped the fight was pretty extraordinary. There was a lot of damage I was hoping he could get the fight down at least once right, but yeah, he couldn't it was uh it was a tough There's a lot of guys at 185 that are a fucking problem man a lot of guys at 185 that are a real problem But we need that in those divisions because those divisions have been so thin for so long like there's a couple of guys Right, but now you're starting to see more like even like the lowerway classes a guy who's unranked like a Ethan you in right right and you're like I'm excited about this division because I want to see how far he could go you got a guy like Mancer and I can't say the other guy's name Abdul no, that's man's Bulgaria. Mm-hmm. You got these two guys come on out about go T.A. How about that motherfucker? Yeah, he puts guys into orbit He fought our guy Aussie Diaz is the last one. Yeah, that was a tough one. It's a tough one. Yeah, this is the fight. I mean Mancer is so tough that he was able to keep this fight going where a lot of guys would have got taken out early But look at that. Yeah, the elbows and the clinch everything he's just getting destroyed You see how he's even trapping the wrist and then stepping in with the punches or stepping in with the elbows clean right hand elbow It's just Mancer is so tough man. He's so tough. He's just absorbing so much punishment and finally They stop it but before he's waiting for him They're gonna say get out here before the stoppage. I think that was the end of a round. I don't even know That wasn't the actual stoppage So if you keep going in the fight, it gets even worse. I mean the thing about stand-up is when you're dealing with a guy Who is a world championship kickboxer and you can't take him down and he's got really good take down defense And he's got to reach advantage It's like everything possible That's terrible about what could happen is going on. Oh that split right hand. Oh my goodness Oh my god, I'm surprised he did his face plan after that. Well, he's so tough man But that's the durability and but the toughness is your problem is you get so many holes Punched in your card in one fight. Mm-hmm in one fight Whereas if you got hit with one shot one big shot is bad He could take it out, but it's not as bad as a prolonged beating over three rounds I I always say I call him dings There's only so many dings you can have in - Yeah, this is the final, his body just couldn't, as tough as he is, and he's so tough. But the problem is, that's a kind of fight where in boxing, you wouldn't have, if you were a manager, and he was your guy, you would not have had him fight him at this stage of his career. - No, not at all. - This is not a fight for you right now. We've gotta really get our striking better, we've gotta, there's growth to be had before you fight that guy. - But you gotta know that. And I think sometimes fighters, we could be so egotistical. - Right. - That where I could beat anybody. But sometimes it's nice to be like, you know what, I could beat him, but just, not right now. Let me beat somebody else, we'll get there when we get there. - But it takes you up. - The UFC does not give you that opportunity. The UFC is like, here's the wolves. - You can say no, though. - You can. - You just can't be shoved. - But you might get shoved for a long fucking time. You say no, and a lot of guys know that. And they also know some guys have taken advantage of those opportunities. Those short notice, John Jones. John Jones got, I mean, what was the fight with Shogun? It was very short notice. - After he'd just be in, man, who did he beat? - He beat everybody, but who did he beat? - Rashad Evans had just gotten hurt and then he stepped in and took that one for the title. - Exactly, and that's when him and Rashad were training partners. And that shows the wildness of John. He's fighting Shogun, who's a legend, who's the light heavyweight champion, opens with a flying knee. - Yeah. (laughing) - At 22. - And beat some down. Beat some down and wins the title. - He has to be studied. - Listen, man, he should be coaching for sure. Definitely should be. I mean, he is now with Gable. - Yeah. - Gable Steven is a real fucking problem. But the other thing is this, you can show all the technique in the world. And I always say it comes back down to, what do you do when you're in there under those bright lights? And that's the most important thing. And if you can't dial it in, it's a scary place to be. 'Cause I can't make you confident. You can be as confident as you want when you're talking to me, but only you truly know what's really going on between those ears, you know? - Right. - That's where it gets like tricky. - It does. - It gets very tricky. It gets very tricky and it's complicated. And I mean, there's only so much a mental coach can teach you on how to handle those situations. They can give you some tools, but either, I mean, I think it's something that's born out of your life. - You like mental coaches? - Excuse me? - I think there's nothing wrong with tightening up every single aspect of your game. However, I don't think they could fix a leaky boat. - Yeah. - What do you think? - I think it's like you don't like mental coaches. (laughing) - I think it's a chicken armor. - I think it's a chicken armor. If I know you have a mental coach, - Yeah. - Come for that ass. - Okay, but what if you found out that Alchandre Pantosia had a mental coach, as savages that dude is? - Good for him. - I might be like, okay, he's not fighting me. - Right, but you know what I'm saying? That's what I'm saying. - But you know what I'm saying? Imagine if you found out pure yarn had a mental coach. - That's cool. Like if a guy is elite already and already a dog and you give him just some different things to concentrate on, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. What I think is if you need it, it shows me that there's an issue. And sometimes that issue can never be fixed. There's some guys that when the going gets tough, they find a way out. - That's where I'm getting it. - I agree with you. If you need it, it's not the wrong with it. But I also know that there's a place in there that if I could get the right key to unlock that door. (laughing) It's gonna be bad. - Yeah. - It's gonna be bad. - You're right. (laughing) - Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right and I don't know. I mean, Sean Brady had a mental coach. And you know, there's moments where Sean Brady is a mother fucker, right? Like the Joaquim Buckley fight, like holy shit dude. - That Leon Edwards. - Oh my god, extraordinary. But then Morales. But the problem is Morales is a fucking light heavyweight. - He's huge, gigantic. You want to talk about the one guy that is like the poster boy for cutting weight. It's Morales. He's so big for 170. It doesn't even make sense. - Yeah. - You see him in the octagon, you're like, that's a light heavyweight. Or at the very least, a very big middleweight. - No, for sure, he's a big dude. - And he's a Walterweight. - And seeing him in Brady in there is like, this is not the same way, class. - It seemed like it wasn't. He got a big back, but-- - But then, look what Brady did to a former world champion in Leon Edwards, who's a good grappler. I mean, Leon took down Camaro Usman, Leon can grapple. He's a good grappler, but there's levels. And Sean Brady's on another level when it comes to that. And what he did to Buckley was just bananas. He looked like he was in a training room, you know? - Right, when he was on top of him, it was like he was like working a heavy bag drill. It was crazy. - Yeah. - I got no fear whatsoever of getting shook off. It was like, there is not a chance in hell. You're getting me off of you. So I'm just gonna work my cardio and beat your ass. - Which is fascinating, 'cause he's so strong and explosive. You would think he'd be able to get up. - 223. - Pro. - He's now weighing in as the back up for this fight. So he's cutting weight. - Oh that's, this retool 23 is heavyweight. He's a heavyweight. - He's down to 193 now. (laughing) - Yeah, but that's probably after training. - Yeah, that's not the one we kill. - He's really over 200, I guarantee you. - No, I see him in person. He's a big motherfucker. - I'm like, how is he making 170? - And his power is fucking extraordinary. He has to cut 20 or more pounds this week. Yeah, but listen, he can do it. He's young, he's done it before. He started out, he's a wrestler. That's his original discipline. - Really? - Yeah, he knows how to cut weight. - I didn't know that. - Wrestling in judo, I believe. See, find his Wikipedia. - He can grapple, man. That's the thing, you don't see it from him. Which is crazy. - I see his videos. - Yeah. - Not the one where he's dressed up as a girl. (laughing) - I think that's a tradition down there. - Yeah, I know, I know. - They get silly. - I know. - It's a little-- - It's a little suss, like what? - I think they do, it's a traditional thing. They do down there, I don't understand it, but I don't have to do it. - I've never seen Cheetos doing judo since he was five years old. - Yeah, see there he is. - I wanna see him in his lung. - His mother was what? - Third, Dan, judo, black belt. - Yeah, I remember when she was 42. - Wow. - He switched to wrestling when he was 10? - Yeah, we were watching him from a little mama. - So he's got a background in grappling. That's where he started out. But the thing is, the dude's got lightning in his hands. I wanna see him in his lung. I wanna see him in Carlos' protest. - Yeah. - That's what I wanna see. - Fuck. - Yes. - I wanna see it. - Protest is the truth. - I just don't want-- - That dude scares the fuck out of me. - I don't wanna buy you knocking each other off yet. - I understand what you're saying. - That's what it gets hardest. - Right, 'cause that story line-- - That's 100% a great world championship fight, you know? - And we'll see what happens. Listen, if Islam may retire, I can feel it, I can feel it. - He may retire. - He's done a lot, he's competed in two different way classes in one world championships in two different way classes. If he beats Ian, if he submits Ian and says, I've had enough, I'm gonna do what Kabeeb did and I'm gonna coach now, I could see that. And then I could see Morales and Protest for the fucking undisputed title. - That's the way to go. - Protest gives a fuck out of me, dude. - 'Cause to me, he's the scariest. Because he does weird shit in there where he sets you up with stuff, he does that setup where he fakes a punch and dives in with that left knee to the body. - Yeah, nasty. - And his punching power is fucking crazy, man. - Oh, why his hands are down here. Hands on there and having fun. Having fun, relaxing. Like when JDM took him down, he's like, why are we wrestling, my friend? People don't wanna see wrestling, come on, let me up. (laughing) But JDM's the boxingist, I thought it was gonna be more competitive. - JDM's pretty complete. JDM supposedly in the Islam fight had a really bad back. It was pretty fucked up and really struggled with wrestling, getting ready for that fight. That's the word. And even if he didn't, there's levels. And Islam's level is the highest level. He's the highest level, when it comes to grappling, there's no one higher in that division than Islam. His fucking, his squeeze is extraordinary. - That's what I wanna train with those guys. - Yeah. - Just give me a week, one, two weeks and forget. - Send the daggers that two, two years, forget. That'll be good with that. Well, did you wanna go down there and train with those guys? - I would go down for a bit. Why don't you go down? I got this, I got the cigars, I got my training partners. I understand, but time is other essence. There's not much time left. If you wanna find out, it has to be now. - I know. - You can't go down there when you're 40. - Or maybe I'm like mighty mouse when I'm retired. I go train everywhere. - Or George. - George St. Pierre does that. He's down here all the time, training with Gordon Ryan. That'll be fun, you know? - George is like a real martial artist, you know what I mean? Like never got out of shape. - He's a man. - He's a man. - And he's so cool. He plays chess at a really high level. - I play chess. - You play chess too? - I play chess. - Are you good? - I'm out of 14, I'm out of 1350 to 1420 elo. - Is that good? - It's supposed to be good. decent for a lot. I'm not like a grandmaster, which is like 2,500 or some shit. - How often do you play? - Every day. - Really? Every day. But I play five mini games, 'cause it's similar to like a fight. Like you got to know and make your strategies, make your attacks. Some guys they play 10 mini games. I'm like, "Bro, I'm too busy to play 10 mini games." I got to, "Where did you learn?" I started playing after COVID, during COVID, when Queen's Gambit came out. - Ah! - And I used to think chess was like, "Oh, that's a gay thing." So I used to play checkers like a man, and I played checkers like a man's dumbest thing I've ever heard. - Yeah, then I realized really quick. I was like, "Oh, this is some high level shit. This is not for stupid people. This is for intellects." Like you have to understand what you're actually doing, strategizing, setting people up kind of like a fight. - It's a fascinating game. George was playing James McCann. James McCann's hilarious comedian from Australia, and George and James is very smart and really a good chess player. And George and him were going to war in the green room of the mothership. And we were all like, "Bro, shit." - Oh, shit. Yeah, they had a board. Yeah. - Ah, man. - Guy's playing at the mothership all the time. Brian Simpson and Tony Hinchcliffe play all the time. - Okay. - Yeah, they get serious about chess. - Chance. - Chance accepted. - Yeah, man. I don't play, but I'm scared. I'm scared to play. - Yeah. - Yeah. - It's a dig thing. - That's the problem. - Because then you want to know the openings. You want to know the strategies. You want to know, okay, if I do this sacrifice and there's so many little things. - Now, did you learn by reading books? Did you learn by watching videos? How'd you learn? I downloaded the app, doing COVID, and that was it. I was hooked. And so, how did you learn how to move? - The game. So, the game, you could start, like, beginning level, it tells you what pieces, like, does what? Like, the punk only go for it. It can only capture sideways. And I can only do, like, this O-shaped thing forward backwards. - So, you just learned from the app? - Yeah. - Oh, wow. - And then I started watching videos. And then I was watching hour long videos and tutorials, I was like, all right, the hooks are in. - Bro, we had Magnus Carlson on the podcast, and Tony sat in with it, because, you know, Tony plays. And it was, like, watching a guy and talking, watching his mind move and just talking to him about how he does it and how he strategizes, and, you know, he's the greatest of all time. - Yeah. - He explained the game to you, you just go, "Whoa, there's just so many, there's so many moves, there's so complex, there's so much going on, there's so many theories." - So many steps in advance, you're playing. - It's cool. - Yeah. - It's cool. - But it's something you can play forever too, regardless of your physical ability. You know, you don't have to ever worry about getting out of shape to play chess. - Yeah. - I want to, I have some of my friends that did some time, and that's where they learned. That's where they learned how to play, and we would play from time to time. But then I come to find out, like, they were really good at the time, because I wasn't really good, I thought I was good, but I really wasn't, and then really quickly I realized, "Oh, these guys are really. " - They're not that good. - They're like, at a level, you know, it's very intellectual game, that's why I really, really enjoy it. Playing pool in New York, there was this kid who was a young player, who, like, when he was really young, he was playing tournaments all over the place, he was like, really good. And there was a dude who got out of prison and learned how to play in his head in prison, because they didn't have a board. And so, this kid and this old dude were sitting there playing chess in their head, and they would call out the moves. And they had the whole board mapped. I was fascinated. I was like, "This is hard." - That's hard. - That's really hard to do. - Yeah. And you also have to agree where the pieces are. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? - I'm not that good. - You got to rely on, and, you know, this one guy had played so many times in prison in his head that he could keep track of the entire board, and this kid was a wizard at it, and watching these two guys call out moves and just sit in there staring at each other, trying to figure out who's winning. I'm like, "You guys are playing an invisible board. This is crazy." - Yeah. That's next level. - That was my first introduction to chess. I was like, "This is nuts, man." - You want to try this over? - Sure. - I'll try it. - I still have some of this left, though. - It's water now. - Yeah. - I know it is. - Agua. - It's still chilled, too, so. I like this one chilled. You do have to do, like, a green t-shot. - Put a little bit of that. - What's a green t-shot? - It's, like, with bourbon or whiskey. - It's like a little sump tea? - Yeah. They call it green tea. You see a lot of the girls they drink at the bar and stuff, so we did this with, like, a, we call it silver tea. It's a silver room. - What is rum made with? Sugar cane, sugar cane, or molasses. I think the other ones, agro-cold. But no matter where people are in the world, they find a way to get fucked up. - Yeah. - From the Pirates of the Caribbean. - Is that what's-- - No, no, no. But that's what the Pirates of the Drink. - Why did Pirates, why were they so into rum? - Honestly, I couldn't tell you. - Like, arg, I don't know. That's, like, rum is like a social-- They probably learn from the Caribbean. - Right. - And that's where it originated, right? - Yeah, you get it from sugar cane plants in the whole distillation process. This is, like, pasta, pasta on cob stil for both of these. It's just a Jamaican blend. Like, some of them are mostly-- Pirates did drink rum, but the stereotype is exaggerated, so it's for plexus. During much of the 1600s, Caribbean Pirates often drank wine and brandy more commonly. Rum became far more available and popular in the early 1700s as Caribbean sugar production expanded. That makes sense. - Yo ho ho, and a bottle of rum. - You know what I never understood is like, we know the big players in the rum market, like Bacardi, Captain Morgan, Malibu. But when we go on vacation, we go to the Caribbean, we drink all the different rums from the islands. And I always tell people, like, you have such a great time drinking rum. Like, why don't we bring that here to our culture and make it more of a inclusive thing versus just only when I go on vacation? That's the only time it's really associated. And I go, I want to change that narrative and let people run this for a year round. You could have sipping rum, you could have for Vegas pool parties, you could have it with a cigar. Like, there's so many different ways you could enjoy it. It's not just for vacation time. It's, for me, I want this to be something that makes you feel like you're back on the island. And we want to make sure this was 100% your making rum, didn't want to piss off my people when you make it. 'Cause that's the one thing when we were doing this. So I went through the whole process, like the branding, the labeling, my money invested in it. So it's like actually my company. But with that said, one of the things I spoke to some of the guys at the, at the distilleries, the one we went to mainly was Worthy Park. And they were saying the main thing you don't want to do is call something to make it rum. If it's not 100% you're making it. I was like, I had a feeling, but I want to make sure. So we didn't tow that line and piss anybody off. So it's been a fun project. And we've been having a good time just getting some bigger distributors and stuff. We should get one in California soon. My guy Kevin Faulkler from King Seafood. He has a bunch of restaurants down in Cali and Vegas. He brought us in, but he's a long Island guy. He heard me talking about it on the aerial show and reached out and I thought it was like a prank email. I was like, let me just see where it goes. And it turns into something I was like, oh, this is actually a legit guy. Actually had a legit business and everything. And it's been cool. So this has been fun. It's my passion project. What's a smart thing to do to prepare for your retirement, too? That's a real legitimate business going. Like as you're still fighting. Yeah, it's not just my name on a label, like trying to do a quick money grab or anything like that. That's awesome. So where are you right now in terms of getting next fight? Are you in a holding pattern? Yeah, everyone's going to fight. Laurent is the only guy who would make the most sense in my opinion. But like I said, I heard he was hurt. I think Diego Lopez is supposed to have somebody. He's fighting. I think he's fighting lightweight now. That's what I heard. I heard Diego was moving up, which makes sense, because he's big. He's a big dude. He's big. And after he beat Steve Garcia, which was a crazy fight. I got my thoughts on that. What's that? What are your thoughts on that? Think about it while you're lightening that scar. Pause. So come for that ass. I'm coming on that ass. No, come and put it. I still remember that. I still get those messages. Till this day, bro, it's the funniest thing I was like, yeah. You just got done with the fight. What are you going to do? I was adrenaline was through the roof. I'm on cloud nine. I just submitted the Boogeyman of the division. Even back then, my managers, I heard talk that they thought he was going to be the first champ for their management company. And I took that as, as Michael Jordan would say, I took that shit personal, you know what I'm saying? And I'm so glad I proved the point. And yeah, I was just a whole 'nother level. But yeah, Laurent is out. Garcia just lost. Arnold Allen just had a great fight with Costa. He lost to Gene Silva before that. Moser and Vogue, we know that. I fought Moser already. And Gene Silva's got a fight too now, right? He's supposed to be fighting a year. That's-- at least those are the rumors I saw circulating on that. Yeah, that's right. That's an interesting fight. That'd be fun one. Yeah, here's always a wild card. Yeah, that dude can kick. I was going to say his kicks. If there's a guy I don't want to fight, is that motherfucker? Because I know what the kicks do. And I'm like, I don't want to be on the receiving end of that. His kicks are crazy. And baseball bats getting swung at your head. And he's so dex, he's got so much dexterity like he can whip those kicks around from anywhere He's so light on his feet man Those kicks are extraordinary. Yeah, here's one he's one of the best kickers in the sport 100% 100% people think I have like a kicking background like no I just watch a lot of VHS tapes when I was a kid and played white tiger white line and All that stuff with my brothers growing up Did I learn how to kick basically we just really see what we did on the on the TV and just start imitating in and then we have these battles Hey, I'm a family of 20 so I got a huge family. Wow. That's very easy. That's huge. Yeah, all the boys we We went to war with each other. And you just learn from watching movies. We learn from watching movies We didn't we didn't do anything traditional like no martial arts traditional background So when did you first like get like someone teach you technically how to kick Um forget the guy's name But when I was at team bomb squad in New York when I was in college and I was just starting off as an amateur in early pro We had this Muay Thai guy come up stone something I want to say, but uh That's a first he was working with John Jones He was the first guy like showing John the elbows the knees and stuff and That's where I first first started learning how to do like traditional Muay Thai kicks and I worked with this other guy named Primo Bella Rose He was really good for me to work with Irish guy had a ton of Muay Thai fights And then when I came to Long Island. I didn't really have like a I still don't even have like a set Muay Thai instructor anything like that I just kind of know what I know from back then and I kind of just blend it in where it makes sense I know you're training vague is sometimes - I've seen you. I live there. You live there now 100% yeah Wow, what made you decide to do that? And my home's always gonna be in New York, but I live in Vegas now It's the fight capital of the world Business for me over there. It's doing really really well, and um is it because you get more training partners More coaching partners more coaching, uh, you know what? Still a syndicate. No, I was I said Marab was a syndicate, right? I would go to syndicate. That's why I saw you training Yeah, I would go down there to help him out for his fights. I started at XC. That's why I trained with first with Nixik The training times were a little bit odd for me. It was like 330 pro classes and stuff like that Um, but I think the sports still kind of backwards people doing all these classes I think in the beginning is good, but I think eventually you have to get to that one-on-one Ilya Tuporio, I don't know, Mali, Henry Ciudah, a mighty mouse the way these guys are doing it Even the words structured training camps for you like a boxing camp, right? And even when I was back home in New York That's basically how we essentially ran it. You know, I was running all the stuff that we were doing and you know Rain those guys would come down and first for sparring and I go to Sarah's for BJJ working a lot with Jason Jason Rao who's got his own school now too I don't know if you know him, but he's he's like the boogie man everyone talks about in the training room But for some reason in competition. He's just never really Showed what he can truly do, but he's so talented to walk you through everything and explain everything at a high level Um, but yeah, that's that's kind of how I I ran everything But it's centered focus and I felt like that's the best our gym was on a run where everyone was killing the game So is it also because my rob's in Vegas that you wanted to go to Vegas? I went I moved for before him really and then he moved in And he found a house right next to me. Oh, that's perfect. That's amazing Literally like across the street from each other. Oh, that's amazing. That's pretty cool. That's that's actually great And where are you training? What gym are you training out there? The queue. I don't know that place. It's a brand new before it's kind of like no meds land We're training most of the classes at the PI, but you can't charge anybody right you're using someone else's facility So you can't be running a class and on top of that charging people and right so that whole thing So my coach Matthias is eventually able to find a place And now just about all the the undergraduate now graduates most of them are just about all signed to the UFC now So we have a we have Dione Barbosa. We have John Paul lambo Sunay. I can never say his name John Paul just come JP John Powell. I think he's supposed to be getting signed Shane Collins just got signed He had that debut against Atari the Georgian which was also a friend of mine Who's kind of suck watching that fight because I was like, I don't want to see nobody get hurt. I don't see nobody lose Ozzy Diaz and I think Marab is now going to be shifting over to doing most of his games He's still going to be working with syndicate, but he's going to be doing most of his camp with us And there's a feeling that I'm sorry if I'm missing some other people don't don't be mad at me. I'm sorry I'm just a man. Don't worry And so you Have Matthias not not Matthias from London No, but what's Matthias' last name? Nakashe Nakashi. He's from Novo, and you know he grew up with all those guys heading around Johnny Eduardo. He's like, bro, you fight all my Brazilian friends. You beat all my coaches Because I'd be Johnny Eduardo. I'm full heading barad being him and he's like, bro I remember I was there and you beat my coach. It's like, fuck it. I'm sorry I'm sorry But it's a good gym is you know what it is? It's a lot of the drills that we do even in the classes is practical. We're not doing 8 10 punch combinations We're doing real-life practical stuff scenarios that happens in the fight So I don't mind doing the classes with this, but I also like to do my one-on-ones afterwards Especially when it's fight specific that we need to work on right and I think they do a good job Now you were saying you had thoughts on the Steve Garcia. Oh, low-pass fight Again another pause Like went up for my boys. Yeah, 145 Yes, Steve Fort I always said Steve is the dark horse of the of the division. He looks so good in the early going bro If you watch some of his other fights the one fight the few fights he lost where he was knocked out was Him just being more reckless than he probably should have been Big frame for the way class his reaches fucking stupid crazy long crazy kicks When he gets you on the ground his ground of pound is ferocious Like almost reckless to a point right and then he's fighting a super smart fight with Diego Lopez Diego Lopez now comes out for around two He flips the switch and says fuck this technical shit and just pulls him into a barn fight and Man he clipped them and he's been knocked out before right so if there's any away a guy who has a grenade chin who could rely on it It's a guy like Diego Lopez and I even said I saw Diego Lopez at the PI and I told him is like congrats on the fight So we had a little Little beef, but it was it's more so about who should have gotten a title shot He was gifted a title shot. Okay, cool the second one you mean the first one the first one I thought it should have been most sorry the second one was ridiculous the second one was was ridiculous to make any sense But congrats to him. Do you think they gave him the second one as a gift because he he fought short notice Possibly yeah, it kind of seems like it This one don't like me But my my whole thing is that's why we kind of bump heads. We did training together one time We were friendly cordial and the whole nine and That kind of set a little riff in a relationship a little bit. We both for a UC 300. We took a bat a picture in the back But that's that's what I said as like I always speak my mind and On things and sometimes it gets me in trouble and it turns to a whole thing with his manager and myself and Twitter beef and all this whole thing and I thought the fight should have went to Mosar just being fair based on merit should have gotten it tied up the The division jammed up fights that probably should have been different directions, right? But I thought I told him congratulations before the smart fight you pulled him into your style of fight And that's how he got the job done if he fought him on a technical standpoint like that I think Diego would have probably ran away with it. Not Diego Garcia. Garcia. Well, he just unfortunately When in when when Lopez started chasing after him. He engaged in that kind of way Yeah, and that's what he does. I'm like if I'm fighting Diego. I'm not doing that shit. Yeah, I'm sure I could take a punch But that guy's got mitts. That's one and he knows he could rely on his chin And he's probably looking at me like I don't think this guy can knock me out So I'm gonna risk it, right? So square jaw dude, you have to understand what you're getting into And that's what I was saying before about like some of these guys you have to understand thyself When you look at Diego, yeah, that's good. Yeah Diego looks like he's designed to take a shot. Yeah, like one of the mark hunt type chins Mm-hmm, you know designed to take a shot So that's why I go like if I were to fight him I like I know how I would approach the fight Obviously the path the least resistance for me is always gonna be the ground, but he's He's good on the ground too. Very good. He almost got evil. We have remember the knee bar the triangle arm bar Yeah, you could make an argument that he could have won that fight because he was closer to finishing multiple times and those should count Those those submission attempts close submission attempts should count In a big way and just because a guy got out of it doesn't mean he was almost dead Like that that's that means a lot. I mean just as much as rocking a guy. It should it should but Judges judges. It's that's a bad aspect of judges because it's very difficult to get to a position like that Where you're almost submitting a guy multiple times. Yeah, like those are those were like very close And if you were looking at that in terms of a jujitsu perspective like yeah, he's got the advantage 100% 100% so that's why that would be a tough fight for me, but it's the I want to fight the biggest names when the Eagles moved up. So dig goes 55 now. Yeah from what I understand Which makes sense because he's fucking big It was probably a real struggle for that dude to get down to 45. Yeah a real problem Yeah, but 55 is such a fucking line 10 - what did you think of the Toporia gaigi fight? I thought it was amazing, man, like for Gachi to come out it kind of reminded me of the Tony Ferguson fight, right? The boogeyman did what he needed to do had a perfect game plan and what Gachi said was the most spot-on thing. I was talking to one of my friends. They said They like Gachi on the podcast, but they were like I thought he came off a little like a little cocky or arrogant I was like as he fucking should the world was trying to shit on him and gave him no chance to win the fight If anyone who relates to that is me, I understand exactly where he's coming from fuck Then fuck it talk a shit cuz if the other guy won Best believe he would have been his white rose like he said he was gonna do. He's had beef with his dad Like there's a lot of built-up animosity whether it was fake, whatever it was there So let him have his time in the sun or so, but with the fight I thought he the thing he said that made the most sense to me that resonated was He changed people's perception of the fighter where before people were kind of going in their hesitant scared and They kind of knew what they were walking into and it was gonna be a bad night Mm-hmm and going in there doing that to Ferguson change Ferguson's career. Yeah going in their doonus is to Toporia Cantiporia bounce back and be the same guy and have that same aura same persona that people are gonna step in the octagon with them and be A little hesitant to want to go in there with him because of what he's done in the past But then also knowing that oh, it's just like us man He puts his fucking pants on the same way we do one leg at a time unless he could jump and put both on at the same time But I think there's a physics element to it too the reality of Gachi and Toporia is that Toporia is much smaller. Yeah, he's a much smaller person look. He's got Death in his hands death and a lot of people would have folded in that second round But Gachi is so fucking durable He's so and you can't make him quit. It's not he's not going to quit You might beat him He's been beat before but it's not because he doesn't believe in himself and it's not because he can't endure It's because he gets caught. Yeah, you know and you think about the way Ilya put it on him in that second round He emptied the gas tank emptied the gas tank and Gachi was still there and that's the problem as you cannot empty the gas tank on that guy I think he tried he got ahead of himself too. I felt like he was trying to put an Escavation point bow tie ribbon on the finish Where he could have submitted him or maybe just go for the TKO but instead he went for the Kabebe like Mounted triangle that he could be hit on Gachi and he was in the same position was going for the same sequence and I go brother This is either gonna be really dope or is gonna be The reason you lose and he lost the position Gachi gets back up and man Just everything he did in the approach if they had a rematch maybe the fight goes different Maybe Teporia if he does he takes him down and does what he's also really good at and cement some or maybe he's more patient with his attack I'm moving his head more kind of like empty the gas tank in the second round when he has him hurt It was Justin's attitude so crazy too like when he got back to the corner is like good body shot He's like help like congratulating him I'm hitting him with a good liver shot. Yeah. Yeah, it's and he man He the way he hit him. I was like the fact that he didn't just go down and curl up in the ball Just say all right. I'm just gonna take my paycheck and go home nope But it was his last chance at 37 to be a world champion and he did it and he did it in the White House Which is crazy. So you're saying this chance is it saying is a chance 37? He's saying this is a chance. You've already pulled it off before you 100% could be a world champion at 45 you know it Well, that would be the amazing ending for my career Yeah, I can't even put into words like what that would feel like Like I get like goose bumps even like thinking and talking about it because it's Well, you better and smarter than you've ever been before. Yeah, all your experience. This is a lot of fights great example that You're at a you know world championship level at 45 for sure Yeah, 100% it's it's a matter of whether or not you get that shot. I and I think they should hopefully It let's say I don't get booked because there's not a lot of options, but let's say they have their fight Hopefully it's an Abu Dhabi sooner rather than later. I think that's one that's supposed to be right? Yeah, that's what I've heard and Hopefully I'm the next guy because then it's okay to wait. Oh, it's not then you know, I rather stay active stay busy Make money and the whole nine because that's that's ultimately what it comes down to so they haven't talked to you about any Potential fights or offered you anything. They floated names Pico's now book was allowed Oh, yes Interesting there's a Vallejo's but with Vallejo's That's going so far back again for me. It's like it's not a fight that makes a ton of sense, but Whatever these guys want to do where I've never said no, maybe that's a problem But ideally you'd like to fight for the title. I ideally I would like to fight for the title next and I think that makes sense Especially you as a former world champion at Phantom weight it makes sense especially a vogue wins Yeah, it's like that's the fight. This is a big fight. You can make two OGs of their way classes Everything I've done at the bandweight division set the records Why not? Mm-hmm, you know, so well, I mean he after loron knocked out Pico He was saying I'll see you next and we thought that was gonna be the case and it changed. Yeah So hopefully Hopefully it changes, but it's down loron loses to ebluev and You know, then the whole thing is just upside down now because loron after he knocked out Pico looked like the man Yeah, I mean it wasn't looking like the man before that but well Pico's bad mother fuck. Yeah, he didn't get like no fucks I was like, dude, you got a slow down He's so reckless. I mean it makes him so exciting, but listen He adjusted in the pit bull fight. Yeah in perfect way I mean he looked like world class in the pit in the pit bull fight that left hook. He has this beautiful. It's nasty Oh, it's beautiful. It's perfect like they should study it They should teach that left hook the Aaron Pico left hook him and Ilya Ilya's left hook is fucking phenomenal that left hook to the body Ilya just does such a good job once he gets going And he hits the slip and he's just like think think think someone's like Connor asked the way he just lines up his shots Vintage Connor vintage Connor like Eddie Alvarez Connor. Oh my god. That wasn't used the matrix. Who is it? They did a side-by-side Euros Medich with D-Rot. Yeah, and he wasn't a problem I was like there's no way. This is like the same exact combination close except for the knee. Yeah. Yeah, Euros Medich look good bad. He's another motherfucker. He's another motherfucker and another guy who was cutting too much weight At 55. Yeah. Yeah, at 70. That's perfect for him because he's big man. He's so tall I think all first rounds too. Uh-huh. Just starting guys. Serbia is a wild place too, man. They're wild people. Brother Brother it was hostile They were nice to me, but my Albanian friends. Oh, I'm sure there's still a lot of history that wasn't too long ago And I always tell my friends are like, yeah, we are blessed to be in this country because the shit we bitch about and complain about These are luxuries liberties and freedoms that a lot of his countries do not have right And only takes us a short trip overseas and you'll see a I can't wait to go back home and I'll kiss the ground Hey perfect, but we got a lot, you know, have you ever seen those Serbian basketball games? I heard about I didn't get to see them though I heard they were talking about we I think we were supposed to go to one or something like like war Like the chance in the audience. It's crazy. The flares and everything too. It's the chance. It's when they they're chanting You're like Jesus. It's like daunting. It's it's very different than anything you ever seen in America. Yeah, it's like the first of all They're national probably give me some volume on this. Yeah, the flares, bro Serbia basketball. Yeah, they're they're lighting that place on fire. I mean might as well be a ride Now is this actually basketball like yeah, how we know it bro basketball now that you standing still good No, that's not exactly each other the daggers daddy stuff. It's crazy. Like listen to the crowd Fuck Bro they get into it look at that stadium. I know These it's like war I mean the energy it's the energy is like the energy in an American NBA game times 10 show the next it's crazy It's crazy how much like look at all the movement in the crowd. I mean these people are active I mean, it's kind of nuts. Yeah, we don't That's the unfortunate thing. I feel like our sports isn't as like Like our fan base is besides New Yorkers who will beat you up for being the rival team in the playoff finals We're in the wrong jersey, but I take that shit off We don't really get like like we don't Not go right. Yeah, that's like well those people have been the war pretty pretty different. Yeah So different. Yeah, yeah, but it makes you appreciate that's why that's why like I go back to like it makes me appreciate like what we have here And the fact that we can achieve Basically, whatever it is that we want to it's gonna be it's not easy, but we can yes, we can try we have the option to try Anything. Yeah, I mean this is literally the land of opportunity But when you see people that come from Serbia, we see people that come from Dagestan We see people that come from these like war torrent Chechnya They're different because they're their childhood was different like different mentality. Yeah, it's a different mentality It's a warrior mentality. It's very different. Yeah, like I've seen it I've learned a little bit from a rob and going to Georgia learned the history about them in Russia and the whole the whole War and everything and the the political side of things and then Going to Albania going to Kosovo and then going to Serbian and and seeing how it like The Serbians are coming up to my Albanian friends introducing themselves basically. We're asking them my friends where they're from and Then just straight up just saying Kosovo Serbia as an introduction. I'll go Are we just trying to start a fight right now? Like I don't understand. Can we just be like? Can we just be cool? You're we're in your country, but just accept one another for what it is We're here for the fights. We're not here to fight. Just have oh Before I forget this so we were at a we're after one of the the nights. I think we went to one of the The clubs on the water on the water and we go out to This food spot to go get food to call good food or whatever and we're there Where we're with some of the staff the UFC staff. We're hanging out that these guys are always great that we're having a good time couple fighters and I guess one of the guys came over and was talking to one of our friends and he goes to him like Our friend looks straight up Dardinian like he looks like a straight up Illarian bloodline like he looks straight up Albanian and he asked him where he's from. He tells him oh, I'm Albanian from I think he says from Kosovo and They start talking but then sure enough the guy I guess starts reaching into his pocket and He says whatever he says they don't speak serbians different language and we have a Serbian friend with us and He translates for he translates for them and he's tells them he says if you guys don't clear out in 10 minutes I'm gonna blow this place up brother What I'm taking a piss break around the corner outside somewhere because I'm like been drinking all night I got I got to find somewhere to go I come back and they're explaining to me So we start telling the girls he says when the guy starts going down the steps He's like trying to talk to the guy he keeps taking a step back. He said he starts sweating profusely He's got his hands in his back pocket and he moves it to the front and He's just like waving whatever saying whatever he's saying in serbian telling everybody they better leave and he said he thought it was a gun And then he asked our Serbian friend he said no, it was a grenade. I was like What? He's just casually walking around with a fucking grenade. Are you kidding me and just because they were Albanian brother. This is This is life for these guys. It's and I know people are gonna be They're gonna criticize. Oh, we're not all like of course not everyone is like that But there's still some crazy people out there that still have this Penta resentment and anger for everything because of the separation of the lands and all this but this it's almost like the the Israel Palestine thing it's All the lands get divided from years ago and then you did this to me But then you did this to me, but then you did this to me first But you did this to me back then and I'm like where do we gonna go back to to BC? Like what the fuck are we talking about can we draw a line in the sand and go? Okay, this is where we all agree that this is what it should be and just make everybody happy So or somewhat happy so that we can go on with our lives in peace. It's just the problem and the war is so recent for them. Yeah I was so I was so like broken up about it. I'm just like, dude. I did not know it was like this man. This is like Because you're from this country and this guy had an unpleasant conversation with you Pull out a fucking grenade. He's going walk. I'm like, no, it's crazy But yeah, don't take any fights over there. I feel like Albanian God bless America. Well Dennis is Albanian That's crazy and the chance he was getting Basically what they told me to translate to was kill Albanians and I'm laughing because I don't understand everything anything I'm just laughing because I'm like, yo, this is sick. You're in a main event This was like me fighting on Mellie in the main event the crowd was packed They could not wait for Dennis to make that wall boon. You hear chants Kosovo Serbia Kosovo Serbia Kosovo Serbia and Yeah, unfortunately, but I told Dennis was like you handled it well. You know, even in Hostile territory, you came in like a champ. You didn't piss anybody off. You're just doing what you normally do You do your ego every fight. You're not looking to provoke anybody and it was nice to see even after the fight Whatever the fucked up stoppage He was he got a better reception on the way out. There was still some like angry fans like luckily he didn't win He was like, bro, you have won this fight here. I don't know man. We had the room. They might have blew up the hotel Oh my god, right? I imagine you fight Euro's Mettage over there and you you beat him Right, I don't even know if I'm supposed to say this but his dad was told when he got to the I guess the hotel that he wasn't welcome here He had to go all the way back to Albania or really? He drove all the way down had to drive all the way back. Wow That's because they his last name holy shit. Yeah, they told me you're not welcome here This is god bless America. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I mean, it's here's the thing like in America like when Russians fight in the UFC everybody cheers Like no one else got the biggest reception, but I mean even now Yeah, even now in the middle of the Ukraine war and all that shit like when Russians fight over here nobody cares If you could fight they'll cheer you Yeah, there's a few people that yell out USA USA, and that's all good because it's just It's not that bad, you know, it's just they're cheering for the American, but they're not saying death to the Russian You know what I mean? Yeah, we don't have a phrase I'm a statement right but would you fight in Russia right now? Imagine if you were fighting a Russian in Russia right now house cared I Got offered a raft match in Russia. What's a raft match or a F? Oh, I thought he meant like raft like you fight on a raft No, no, that'd be crazy. You see Merab was Did the sport kick off the raft and then he picked it up and slammed the bit to the water so you out offered one of those matches Yeah, in Russian my second one the first one was with Benson Henderson That was a fun match more so for me, but Yeah, but I was just like it was a really good prospect 12-0 guy. I think he fights a PFL tough guy, but I'm like Dude, I'm leaving Albania. I just left Baku I have no desire to go all the way back overseas again I want to prepare for a fight. I want to sell some rum. I want to fucking sells some cigars help my training partners is like And I got a wife. I got to make sure that I'm Your home kind of homes like give us some attention and some love you don't some TLC Well, it's also there's a reality of wrestling matches that you have the potential blowing a knee out that too It's real. So You know who was the Russian guy blues knee out? I was a Georgian guy Is that what was yeah, the big the big heavyweight guy. Yeah, yeah, the Georgian guy It was like a silver medalist and you know the big thing and you can you can blow a knee out of these matches and then you're fucked and all the injuries in MMA Basically, what were you doing? Wrestling wrestling. Yeah, the culprit Well, that's how Jermaine. It's always good to have you on here brother and Good luck with the rom company. It's called harbor. What is it called the phone car bar room and we actually got a Community app now to it's called join fun car bar.com and what is the website if people want to go and see the rom well They want to join the community is join fun car bar.com if you want to purchase phone car bar rom.com or phone car bar Spirits.com Pretty easy and we're looking for distributors more distributors to keep growing this thing as best as we can and The best thing about it is we're actually giving people an opportunity to help grow this thing from the ground up we're two years in as of august 1st and We doubled ourselves from from last year, so we're in a really really good spot So I'm excited about that and anyone that's been following me from the beginning of my career They get an opportunity to now take the ride with us and we got perks and stuff like that all listed on the Republic campaign for a crowd for the crowd I'm so happy that you have something like this. It's really cool. It's good. It's smart too. Yeah, it's really good to invest in something like that Yeah, so far so good and and good luck and whatever happens in the future because I really do hope you get another title shot Oh my god, that'd be it would be them. That's the right way the right ways. Yeah, because again you're 37 This is this the time looks taken. Yeah. Thank you brother Joe. I appreciate you always good to see you my friend. Always all right. Bye buddy You