JRE MMA Show #181 with Justin Gaethje & Trevor Wittman

[MUSIC] >> Gentlemen, first of all, thank you for being here. I couldn't wait to talk to you. Congratulations on one of the most epic accomplishments in the history of combat sports, and that's not an understatement. I mean, it might be an understatement, it's not an overstatement, it's perfect. That was one of the greatest nights I've ever experienced of watching anything in my life. It was amazing. And have you cap it off and win the title when you're facing a guy that everybody thought was at least number two pound for pound? It was like him and Islam or number one and number two. And some odds had you at six to one, which I thought was very disrespectful. I thought like, this is crazy. Like six to one's crazy, like Ilya is really good, but so's Justin, this is kind of nuts. Like, to have you win the way you won in front of the fucking White House. >> Yeah. >> How's it feel? >> You know, it's really not real yet. I was expecting to have like an internal sense of relief that I don't have something to chase. Because I was always chasing this belt. And I was expecting to wake up with some kind of natural release of pressure, but I don't know, I don't feel that. As the days go by every day, I feel a little bit more, a little bit more. Two days ago, my dad was like, what was it like waking up being the champion? And I was like, I haven't even thought about that. And then I was on the shitter, like 10 minutes later, and I was sitting there thinking about I was like, wow, I'm the fucking champion, I get fucking crazy. And yeah, I've just been on the grind for so many years now. My dad dropped me off 19 years ago in Colorado. I knew nobody to wrestle. And yeah, to see where I'm at now is just absolutely incredible. I mean, there's really no way to explain how or why, or why I deserve it. I mean, I've worked my ass off. I have made mistakes, I've done things the wrong way, but I've always corrected and got back on the path. And I think the coaches, the mentors, but mostly the coaches that I've been in the team that I have around me is a huge reason why I was able to stay on track and just keep moving forward and keep trusting that I belong in the top of the league. Well, you've clearly shown it throughout your career and having a great coach like Trevor and one of the reasons why I wanted to bring in Trevor is because you guys have a very unique relationship. First of all, I love the YouTube series, the Art of Violence, fantastic. And what's great is watching you two guys work together and Trevor, you being very acutely aware of when to pull them back, when to ramp it up, when to push. Like you're you guys having a relationship like that is so critical because you guys know each other so well. You've seen him perform so many times, you've seen him fight and perform in the gym that you know where he's at all the time. And having that sense of where your fighter is at any given time and camp because you know him so well, boy, that's a giant advantage. Well, hold on. Just to test. Yeah, I think that's a huge advantage is is knowing your athlete and you know, I didn't do in this for a long period of time, but there's lots of coaches out there that consider their fighters, their friends. I do consider them one of my best friends, but I put myself more in like a father position of I need to know when to tell them the truth. And I've got myself in trouble with that with fighters where you tell them the truth so hard that you have to let them go like a child like hey, if we were not in the same believes go live life and see how it is and then when you return, I'm still going to love you. Having that type of thing where I have to be dead honest for your career, not because it helps us now and it feels good right now at the moment, I have to look at that from from the time that we start, we talk about, you know, what are his goals. And then my job is to be an advisor, be a mentor to get them to that place as best as I can, because these are his goals. And I want to support those and in the beginning of his career, his goals were to be the, the most violent guy out there, the most remembered the guy that's every time someone bought a ticket, they remembered Justin gay cheese selling that show. And then it turned into no, I want to have this belt and that was hard because we did go and not get the belt twice. And you know, it's so cool to be in the kind of those scenarios where it's like, Dan, you had two opportunities now it's never going to happen and that's what life is life is one of those things that you keep getting up and chase your goals, you never know how it's going to happen. And yes, you want a dream and you want to have a, you want to have a plan, but I'll tell you right now through all the times that I've had championship fighters in business and in life, the plans never work, you always have to adjust them, but it's that dream and that vision to get you to the upstairs, you have to get up each one of those steps, so, you know, Justin went out there and wrote a story that I don't think will ever be forgotten and he did it one round at a time and that's what impresses me because his mindset, I love the mental game. I love to talk about the mental game, even like Ilya, Ilya is a special guy with how he uses his mental, the secret that if I see it, I believe it, it'll happen to a point, you know, it's like, I always tell people like, if you want, if you go down the ice cream aisle and you're like, Hey, I don't know what ice cream I want, you're going to stand there and go, that one looks good, that one looks good, that one looks better, the people that are like, I want mint chocolate chip, you get in there, you get it done, you grab that mint chocolate chip, you walk out very similar to Ilya's last three fights. He went out there and he demanded what he wanted, his confidence got him through that, but it makes it very hard when you get that stale nasty rotten milk, fucking mint chocolate chip, you start to go, oh shit, what is going to happen now? So I think the relationship that we have is me guiding him, me pulling them back at the strictly situation, hey, let's pull back a little bit, let's focus on what's going on. I don't want no distractions and having someone and he trusts that I care about him. I love him to death. I love his family, like our relationship is so strong and I need that with my athletes and I'm just blessed and 100, I say honored, but more and more importantly humbled by someone who I've never worked mental with, who shows me different ways to the mental game of fighting, which I feel I very high level with is it's something that if you put so put yourself around people that make you better, this guy makes me better daily and I'm very grateful for that. You said something about Ilya, about the fight, about having expectations and you said you don't have any expectations when you fight that way, you don't you don't get thrown off. Yeah, I mean, it's huge. I mean, my expectations come from my hard work, obviously I expect my body to perform. I understand that I've trained my mind to and maybe the narcissistic tendencies in me love showing off and performing in front of thousands of people on that stage, that's what I love the most about this and that's what my personality, like I'm very competitive, I want to win, but I'm never going to lie to myself and that's how I've never had a coach in my entire career. Here's all the wrestling, have to pull me aside and talk about the mental aspect of competition because it's always been so natural to me, I'm not sure if I'm not sure if it's because they they see that I'm doing good and that they agree with my approach mentally or they don't they don't understand what's going on or but I've just always been so comfortable and so content with my situation of, you know, this is the competition, this is the game, you know, I'm very competitive, I'm very petty, I take everything personal and yeah, when I go in there with ex, when I have gone in with expectations and it's, I said it before the fight, you know, earlier, like I said so many true things to him and I think it was such a, it's such an asset to tell someone the brutal truth. Especially someone like him because it pushes them farther away from the truth, you know, even if I tell them the exact truth and exactly what's going to happen and you know, you're making a mistake by having all these expectations and when we go to round two and when we go to round three and it's not going as you predicted it or wanted it to or expected it to, then where do you go from there and, you know, I said that exacting to him and then that pushed him farther away from it and, you know, I, it's almost like you wanted to prove you wrong. Yeah, he wanted to prove, he wanted to prove himself right, you know, and he was unwilling to be open to opinions and because obviously I don't know him, he knows him better than himself, but, you know, I, I got here because I am coachable, I got here because I listen, I use every, every, like I posted yesterday, every person plays a thing that has happened to me or for me has ultimately molded my mind and my body to be able to deal with the situation that happened on Sunday night. And, you know, I can, I can pull so much experience from the past, my losses, my wins, setbacks, failures, accomplishments. I mean, there was so much to learn from, you know, every day is a learning experience and I constantly try to learn and be better. I don't know why I'm able to perform like that. I think I just think it's who I am, you know. When I say I wanted to be the most exciting fighter ever, it's not that I wanted to be the most exciting fighter ever, that the thought of that was fucking cool to me, you know. But I was just being me. And I've been blessed to be able to, you know, do my childhood, to come from a small town, through having, you know, unwavering support from my family and my friends and my coaches and my teachers. And everybody from, you know, it's just crazy to be able to come out on top, I mean, it's just crazy. One of the things I think was a giant factor in the fight is that you have been in wars. You've been in a bunch of wars. And Ilya really, it only had some rough moments against Jai Herbert. You know, Yusuf Zalal gave him some problems, but it was nothing serious. The wars that you've been in, these just down and dirty brawls that you've been in, you're comfortable with the back and forth. You're comfortable with enduring. You know that you're not going to break. You know, if your body holds up, you're going to keep fighting and you can endure. I don't think you'd ever experienced that before. So when you didn't break in the second round, and I think you made a mistake, and I think you're correct about that, you said you made a mistake by going to the ground. Absolutely. And then he hurt you to the body. I told Trevor yesterday, I think, you know, him hurting to my body was the reason, one of the main reasons I won. You know, when he hit me, when I dropped, it wasn't the first time he hit me in the body. That was probably like the fourth or fifth one. And he had landed some really clean shots, and he could probably sense that I was in trouble and hurt. And I think that fact made him dump everything because it was his last chance to take me out. And he almost did take me out. But when I went down, it's always easy to make these decisions and hindsight, but when I went down, you know, he, he's had way more submissions than he has knockouts. And so for him not to have that belief that he's going to be able to go down there, especially with the Khabibai, especially with the Charles La Verifai, especially with all the negativity around my grappling. They're, you know, I think he would have been foolish, not to, 'cause I would have stood back up. I would have stood back up, and he would have charged forward, tried to finish me. I would have jumped on his legs, I would have pulled guard. He was going to end up on top of me no matter what. I wasn't going to sit there and trade with him again. Like, I would have, you know, front rolled into grappling situations or what, I would have made him cover me. And, but I think me getting hit is what made him completely blows, you know, Shane Carwin-esque, you know, blows tank. Yeah. And, you know, go for the win. And I think that was the choice he had to make because it was going to continue to get worse. I'd be just asking the first round. Like, it might have been close on the score cards. I absolutely took the first round, but the amount of damage that I inflicted in the first round set up the rest of the fight. I do think it was a mistake. And, and you're saying what you're saying is so correct. So what I'm saying is from a standpoint of him demanding it, he's going to finish you in the first two. Understanding the damage that he was taking. He took big risk. He got in there. He kept his hands on your collar bones. He was landed really good shots. Yeah, the two body shots before that left hook to deliver. That the sound it made was crazy. That last one was clean. It was precise and deep. But you could tell it was already there. But if he didn't put that pressure on his self, and this is what I mean by mistake is like, when you come out, you have to know that you're going five rounds. And he knew that he had to unleash everything right there. If he would have been smart in that scenario saying, hey, we got five rounds, let me step back a little bit. Let me do some damage. But also he's like, hey, let me get you out of there quick. Justin, you know, can't grapple. Can't do all these things with a lot of people think, which Justin's a great grappler. And what was so smart about you is when you get tired, that's where the worst decisions happen. Is that's one of my big things is coaching. We get someone tired and then we make them make bad decisions. And then then we capitalize on those mistakes. Justin was able to stay so composed here with being speared to the body. And when you take a liver shot, it is way different than the head shot. A head shot is like taking a shot with your buddies at the bar. It's like, hey, let's go. You know, but you take a body shot, you're dying. Like your liver shot, you feel like you're dying. And Justin, all the decisions he made on the ground, from the triangle, from the on bar, from not being flat, so many good decisions were made in that scenario. And I do think it was a mistake. Obviously, there's so many different ways it could go. But those, those type of moments in fights are what make fights great is overcoming obstacles. And he had set that up. He had said it, he's like, hey, I'm going to overcome anything. I'm going out there to put the worst thing out there. Like, what are you going to do to be? I've already been knocked out the last second of a freaking huge fight by Max. Like, you can't do nothing worse to me. And that mindset, I think is something to take away for all the fighters out there that always, I love how you say it. Expect a war, always. Some of the biggest mistakes that I've made with fighters that I had is allowing them to think that they're going to go through this fight easy. And then that fight becomes super hard. You think it's going to be a war that you're like, hey, wasn't as bad as I was expected. Even if it was a little bit of a war, they're not going to help them in that moment. Yeah, there's no point in that. That's fighting, fighting, like fighting is mentality. I look at this, like, there's techniques out there and there's things like that. What makes this sport inspirational and makes someone that want to go out there and beat cancer because they were inspired by a fighter? It's not the technical piece. It's getting back up and it's okay to get knocked down. I love, I love watching people get knocked down because my favorite part is seeing how they get up. And that to me is why I love fighting. It's how people get up. Yeah, how they endure. And that was the big story of that second round that you figured out a way to get through it. And the change in tempo in the third round was very obvious because the sprint that you have to make, like what Ilya did when he was trying to finish you, he used so much fucking energy. And the great-chale son-in-law said that if you try to win by knockout and fail, you won't win by submission. And a lot of times that's the case because you know as good as anybody, if you fucking sprint at heart, you wail on the bag with fucking everything you got for two minutes and then they go time. One minute's not enough. It's not enough. Even in preparation. Even in two minutes, they even in two minutes. Yeah, that was crazy too. Even in preparation for these fights, like I'm doing 20, 30, 40 second sprints at most. I mean, that was a two minute sprint for him. Yes, and full out. Full out, full out. There's no power, everything full power, every punch full power. You can't even train for that. Yeah, you've got to have spots. And he didn't. He was just unloading. I mean, that's a young man with a tremendous amount of confidence because he's a two division world champion and he thinks he's going to go down as the greatest of all time. And hey, he might still cook. He might still. What was he, 28? The odds are fucking great against that right now. Because of that loss. I hope he does. I hope he does too. I hope he does and I know that he has a skill. I know that he has the skill to be a champion again. However, I, same thing with Tony Ferguson. I didn't break Tony Ferguson's confidence. I changed the perception of his opponents of him. And that is a huge factor when you go in there. Like, who are you fighting? What do you, you know, before this, he was a guy that would, that you couldn't get through, that you couldn't push through, you couldn't survive with. And once I showed people that all you got to do is get through that, then nobody's ever going to go in there with thinking that he's unbeatable now. You know, and that was his identity. And, you know, that's going to be such a tough task for him to fight people that aren't scared of him. That's interesting. That's Mike Tyson in his prime. That's Anderson Silva in his prime, where the fight was lost before he got in there. Yeah, if fight was lost before he even got in there, physically, then I don't know what the truth is, but all these reports are that he has two fractured orbitals and a broken nose, just that alone. Does the orbitals alone? Like, anytime you've got eye injuries, like anything severe with your eyes, long-term consequences vary, you know. Psychological. Absolutely. And physical. And physical. The body is resilient. Like, I'm telling you, I had a brother. Broken bones make stronger bones. Like, that is his, his, his, his older bones will be stronger. It depends on where, though. Just in the orbital bone, I had my orbital broken. And for six months, I'm going to do this in my tooth and move. And it's right where my sinus cavity is. You remember when you hit me with a spinning elbow? Your tooth would move. Dude, I can push on your cheek. And my tooth would move. Oh. Summer is great, but it also comes with a lot of chaos, travel, and spontaneous plans. So make sure you're taking extra care of yourself with AG1. It's a simple daily health drink that replaces your daily multivitamins, probiotics, prebiotics, adaptogens, and more. Plus, AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for potency, purity, and nutrient density. AG1 is clinically shown to close common nutrient gaps and support gut health to keep you going all summer long. Wherever this summer takes you, stay on top of your health with AG1. Visit drinkag1.com/jorogue and end for a limited time. Get a free morning person hat, end, and AG1. Flavor sampler for free. in your welcome kit with your first subscription. That's drinkag1.com/jowrogan. I still feel the soft spot, but this is a very weak area where your sinus cavity is. That's a, and you broke both orbitals and the nose. Like I do believe the bunny is resilience. You ever seen the rhops nose? Yeah. You ever seen the X-ray and the rhops nose? No. Dude, do I sound a dude? It looks like a spine. Oh, dude. He's got 33 vertebrae. No, actually, I mean, I've had really fucking crazy. I've had three broken noses. I've had it fixed twice. Yeah, I know you had it fixed. You know, this is what there it is. That's that's morob's nose. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I mean, that that looks like a long cocaine binge right there. Took out the whole fucking left side of his belly. It looks like you had hit with a sledgehammer. I mean, that's crazy. That nose is crazy. That is crazy. That is like, and to fix it, he's going to have to have no contact for like a year. Yeah, that's how it works. So he's not going to fix it. He's just going to do it. Look how turned it is. Make that the bone. I've had my eyes fixed and my nose fixed, and my nose was better for quality of life. But obviously, being able to see was huge, but when your nose is broken, like, you have to understand, like, getting a haircut fucking sucks. You can't breathe through your nose. You have mouth open the whole time. You're constantly breathing in fucking hair. Like, there's so much. Be that the dentist. Every time you're choking, every time you eat food, like, there's something missing. Yeah. Sleep, I wore a nose tip to bed for 10 years now, you know. You have to have a permanent scab, because the people that they got all the time. Yeah, my nose is used to it now, but yeah. When you got a fix, was it before the max fight? Yeah, right before the max fight. And then you could breathe out of it perfectly. Yeah. Is it still good now? Yeah. He broke it, but he didn't break. He didn't fuck with the cartilage. He broke, he actually fractured the bone up top, so I didn't have to get a fix. It's another factor that when we were talking about the fight, and, you know, people were talking about this matchup with Ilya, I said, you have to think about what he did to Fazeev. Fazeev is a super talented striker. And then you also have to think about the max hallway fight, because he was pressing in the first round, but he got caught with a jump spinning back kick to the fucking face. And when that was, that's a game changer. And it happened at the end of the first round, and from that, it changed the tone of the fight, because it was just dead on. It was perfect. Yeah. I couldn't land it any better. And the truth of the matter is, psychologically, I was not there. I was not prepared mentally for the fight when I fought my college. It was such a different circumstance. It was, you know, a guy that wasn't in my way class. It was a guy that I'd never thought about fighting. It was for fun. That whole experience was so different than any other fight I've ever had when it comes to, like, being mentally prepared for a fight. What do you attribute that to? Myself, my, my, and us, like we took, we told him to take the fight. He didn't want to take the fight. And we told him that you're going to keep the title contention fight, because that's what they promised us. That's why he was very, very, well, every one of you guys, every one of you was like, oh, something was different. And it was like, well, why didn't you guys fucking say something before the fight? Well, you told me I told me after the fight, like, I mean, after it was different, but like, I needed to know. He told me, he's like this. He's like, I just didn't respect him. And I'm like, how could you not respect Max? And I didn't catch on to it. So it's like, I'm always looking for flags and things like that. And 100% I take 100% responsibility, because that's how we learn. Everybody makes mistakes. I remember the Tony Ferguson fight. I didn't give any fucking water. You know, like, there's like things that we all learn from. But the thing when he had told me that I'm like, how did I not catch that from you? Because he's like, dude, he was a smaller guy, and I was like, dude, Max is like one of the guys that I look up to from the outside, like, he is talented. I remember thinking, what am I looking for, like, what am I afraid of? I kept trying to convince myself that I need to be, I need to find what I was to be worried about. And I couldn't find it. So you always need that before a fight? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. No matter who he is, you're fighting. Right. Right. Because I've never been as present, and like, I've never been able to retain a fight. And I, you know, before the knockout, I was there, like, I was in the arena. I saw the lights. I saw all the people. I heard the people. Like, I've never been there in my life. And I think that I can attribute that to me not being scared. And so me not, you know, me not being in a real fight or flight. Real life or death situation? Yeah. So you weren't fully focused. You could actually hear the crowd. Yeah. I could hear my thoughts, you know, I had thoughts, I never had thoughts in a fight, because I'm so intuitive and reactionary. And that one was just so dear, there was so much. And so sure the kicks, the eye pokes, no, I think I was not, I couldn't have beaten that night with the mentality that I had. And that was my last lesson to learn. I had made my lessons with Olivera, it was like I wanted it so much. I wanted it so bad. And I wanted to perform when I wanted to impress my fans. You know, Rose had a fight that night and she fought like absolute garbage. And I told my coaches, I coached Donor, I won't do that to you. He said that before. I never thought about the walk. Because I don't worry coach. Because he never let you down like that. And coaches pissed. And everyone's, the locker room's all fucked up because Pat's fucking weird. Is that the carloas part of the fight? Was that the same night? Yeah. Yeah. And I was at home. And that was again, that was my fault. I allowed those things to affect me. Right. And to, you know, affect my fighting decisions rather than just being myself. And so that was a huge mistake. And the mistake was, you know, winning two or three times in a row and just kind of becoming complacent with how serious what we do is and how dangerous this game is. And how much luck and chance are a factor every single night. And so, you know, I wasn't doing the extra credit. I wasn't sitting in the sauna at home, you know, and I don't know, I don't know why. It's just, and then I made that mistake probably into the Eddie Alvarez, Dustin Porriet fights lost. And then I won three or four in a row and then I completely went back to the same mindset of, on the best of the world, no, it could be me. And I paid for it. And those two mistakes were huge, very, very big learning lessons. And then the, the child's all verified, you know, I was like, I wanted it so bad. And then I made the moment so much bigger than it actually was. It's just 25 minutes in time. And I, all I can control is being perfect, my preparation for it, but then ultimately being there for 25 minutes and being perfect. And yeah, those are the mistakes that I made. I had to learn. I had to make those mistakes. I would not change anything about my career. I think the farther back into my career you go, the more special this moment is. And you know, I think in time, again, I, this is going to age like my career is something special. The way that I did it, the way that I lost, the way that I stayed on track, the way that I, you know, threatened retirement if I wasn't going to get a title shot, a title shot, the way I called my shots along the way than the discipline I had. I mean, it's second to none. I've watched his work my whole life. Since 1992, my dad showed me, I remember as a four-year-old seeing it. I don't have a lot of, you know, great memories. I remember my childhood, but it's like you have specifics. But I remember seeing it for my first time in my dad's bedroom. We were sitting there watching it together and I was enthralled. I was like, this is, this is amazing. I love this. Did you picture that? Here with like a baby bottle just squeezing it. Yeah. I know that. I didn't picture it all. I got to see it. I love it. And then I watched it. And then I was a diehard fan. I've been a diehard fan ever since then. And especially in 2001 when it came along, I was, you know, probably in seventh or eighth grade, sixth or seventh grade, and just fell in love with it. And then you know, mean call going into college, we'd go and see the bottle of wild wings for six, seven, eight hours, spend five dollars, those poor services people. It's just amazing that you've been able to keep this ferocious mentality for so long. Because I remember when you first entered into the UFC, the Michael Johnson fight. I was so pumped for it because I was like, get ready because this is going to be fucking wild. Because I had been a fan of yours when you were fighting. What was it? World Series fighting. And then that Michael Johnson fight was everything that I thought it would be fucking crazy. Just a wild ass fight. Crazy coming out party. Get it. I giggled so many times in that fight. Dude, when you were, when it gets the cage and you were like this, you like look back and you were like, oh, I'm looking for the shot and you're like, block it off the thing. And then you come back with the right hook and then you let it back in again. Then you hit it with the right hook again, off the cage. Dude, there's so many giggle sessions in there. I wasn't nervous because it's just again, that's the way he fights. And I'm like, you know what's going to forget this fight. Michael Johnson was swinging. I caught him with that left hand a few times. Well, that's the same left hand he knocked out Dustin with. His left hand is so fast. He's fast. It is fast. Michael's power. There he does fast. Dude, and he was trying to win. I mean, he was going all out that you guys just emptied out in that fight. It was fantastic. And I was like, there it is. The three-rounder did get off the backflip. Took three rounds. He got up there. I'm out there. I'm out there. I was like, you can do it. I'm out there. I always get so scared for your knees when you do that. Like, please, don't hurt your knees after you won the title. 100% baby. Hey, where are five of us? Yes. We're training for Kabeeb. We're over at high altitude. He's doing backflips off the kick. and I was like, stop, do this after the fight. - Yeah, he's like, hey, no more backfiles like today, today's the day, today's the day I become a bitch. (laughing) Like today's the day, huh? - I thought I'd never forget that moment. - He's like, you know what? - I turned my head and I was like, stop, go, go ahead. - That's true, right? - Dude, when you get something and all of a sudden you're special, then you start protecting it and then you won't be special anymore. - Yeah, part of the way-- - I told him I was like, today, today's the day, he's fucking crazy. I'd never want him to stop being fucking crazy. Like, everything about him in life. When you play golf with him, he's the highlight. He does shit that you'll never fucking see. Like, it's like, everything you do is the highlight. Like, his life is like his fighting, he's fucking wild. - So your mentality, you've never had to work on, I mean, obviously you've learned lessons along the way, but you've never had to, like, sit down and work on this mindset. It's always been something you inherently possessed. - Yeah, yeah, I think-- - It's crazy. - I think people just complicate things so much. Like, when you can truly understand that there's, there is things you can't control, but it's not everything. You can only control what's inside of you. You know, you can only control how you perceive things, how you react to things, and you-- - The work you put in. - Obviously the preparation, but it's, I mean, there's so much, you know, and I guess I always knew that something was coming, because no matter how far off the road, you know, like, I've made mistakes. You know, I've done, I was never-- I think God, I was never an alcoholic and never loved, but I was, I could say, I was probably a drug addict. It's, you know, one time in my life. And-- - What drugs? - I don't know. I have never told my parents about this, so I don't know. - You don't have to-- - All of them. - All of them. I want, so, but it's, you know, you can't-- and I know this is gonna sound stupid, but so I went to school for human services. I wanted to help people. A big part of that is helping people come off drugs, and I lost many over a handful of friends, really close friends, from drugs, where I come from, we're not far from Mexico, and we had the best. We had the best shit coming right across the border before I ever got cut up. And it was my life, you know, where I'm from is very boring. And so like you chase, again, you know, we have it so good in this country, we're always trying to create chaos in order to feel something. And I guess that's what I was probably doing. And in college is when I really, you know, I was like, if I'm going to help people come off of drugs, then how can I ever even try to understand if I don't know what they're chasing? And so that was a part of it. And also a part felt good, you know? And so, you know, once I did certain things, I knew what people were chasing. But then I always knew that something was bigger for me and better for me, and I had something to do. And so that was always, it was never a crutch for me. I was like, that was awesome. You know, I'm not doing it again. - What is it in your head that where you always knew that you had something bigger? - Well, probably my faith. I mean, my parents, the best thing they ever did for me was make me go to church every single Sunday and create a relationship with God through the Word of Jesus Christ. And just trying to live up to those expectations, I knew not that I was going to be a champion or anything. And I just knew that I couldn't take the easy way out. You know, when you're on drugs or when you're living in a lifestyle like that, then nobody expects anything from you, nobody wants anything from you. And that's the easy way to live. You know, there's no pressure. - No expectations. - No expectations, no pressure. And I mean, it really is, I can understand how you can let that overcome the passion to live. You know, and I don't know, I just think the passion to live because of my faith has never outweighed my desire to feel good. - I want to talk about the shift that you made in your career from being the most exciting guy in the world, wanting to be the most exciting guy in the world, being happy with performing to the best of your ability, whether you win or lose, to wanting to get the belt. What was, what started that decision? - It's weird because I don't remember a time or a day where I made a change. Other than I'm not gonna get hit. You know, in the Dustin Porry fight and the Eddie Alvarez fight, I absolutely almost broke them. And there was no different than any of my other fights. Nobody had just ever, same with the Elia. You know, like nobody had ever got past it. Nobody had ever been able to withstand the ferocity of my actions for two or three rounds. And then those guys did and I was like, what happened? You know, and ultimately I put myself in a position and I got hit with a shot that took me out of the fight. And so after those fights, I was like, I have to not take these shots. And that was ultimately all I can say that I changed mentally is I'm gonna, I don't wanna get hit. I used to never care about getting hit 'cause it's like, it doesn't hurt. Nothing hurts in there. You don't feel nothing, it's never hurt. And so that was really just the mindset. I just need to not let them get me in a predicament where I'm not able to, where they have to stop the fight. - So the shift. - But he probably come outside, outside torso, yeah. - It's definitely there was a shift. And it wasn't just like an instant shift. There was the two losses in a row with Eddie and Poirier where he's like, I'm winning these fights and I need to be able to get to the distance. And I was like, all right, we gotta become a spot fighter 'cause you just drown people. And you're, what's happening is you're making mistakes. We threw a low kick against Poirier and he got caught 'cause he based back lazy with his shoulders above his hips. So I was like, all right, let's be sharp. Let's fight in spots. Then he goes on a three fight win streak where he's finding the right spots and putting people out from Vick to Barbosa into cowboy seroni. And that's where he's like, and then I sat down with him and I was like, do you wanna be a champion? And I was like, this is how you have to fight to be a champion, is be smart. And he never said, he never said he did what to be the most excited fighter to board. He would tell me after fights. He's like, I don't know if you're trying to fight excited, but look at me. And it's like, it's so amazing, like it's in him. It's just, how do we get you to sprint 50 yards, pull back for 100 yards in jog and then sprint for 50 yards and be able to know your red line. Don't cross over that red line. Don't hold red line. Well, that is again the experience that you found in war. So it was so critical on what I got for it. But I don't wanna make mistakes. And it is, I think it's crazy. I think, again, the fact that they said that he had outstruck me in the first round, 39 or 32 or something. You granted some hard jobs. Yeah, but years were devastating. He might have touched and touched that. But I'm talking about the perception. It looks like I'm getting hit. It looks like it, but I mean, I don't have special skin. I am able to see punches and roll with them. And roll with punches. If you watch my, you know, fight frame by frame, I'm not getting hit for the most part. You're moving with the punches. Yeah, yeah, it's be like water. Like I'm constantly, you know, and intuitively making these calculations. That's the scoring that when you see that, I don't know who's counting that, but that's like amateur boxing. Amateur boxing, if the white glove touches you in the face, even if it's not a clean blow, that's considered. That's how you judge. Yes. And that's where just that I think where you look at it from a point system, you can't just look at the screen. And that's why, you know, judges can't look at a screen and go, oh, this guy landed more, this is who won. You had the damaging blows. I think everybody knows that. Like I get it. Like I see the way you roll a shot. I see the way that you fade off and allow the shot not to go through your skull and deflect it. You're still, it still gets touched to you. So it's considered that they landed that shot. But the damage is like what you do to people by the way that you hip through, that you drive through people is so different. Like they just and hits unlike any he's still. I still think to this day, we got to ask the UFC, but they did a test out of to see who has the hardest pose that the UFC, he had the hardest pose. Dude, he kicks me and I'm just like, dude, I'm so glad. I feel so bad for Luke. He didn't let me kick you. God, dude, Luke could do it just to let me do something. He has his pet on, he has his pet on. I kick him and his nut swell up. Dude, I get blue balls, bro. And so I can't kick him over on the inside of your leg. I talk to a doctor about it because I'm like, bro, like he kicks people and they bruise on the inside of the leg. And it's because the shot through, but there's a nerve on the inside of the leg. I'd go home and I'd tell my wife. I'm like, baby, I got fucking blue balls. And she's like, from there and I'm like, Justin, she looks every like, the fuck you got blue balls from Justin for? One of the things you were doing early in your career that I always thought was so wild was you were leg kicking people from a collar tie. Like you were a leg kick. I was like, oh my goodness, I'm like, how come no one's doing that? Like you were one of the only guys that I saw that was doing that. That was from the clench was leg kicking. You've got some fucking flexible hips, man. Because the way you were able to do that from like, right in tight like this and then and not just you pull the leg out, you're whipping in there. Yeah, he pulls them to their lead legs. So he's making a base on that knee. And then it's just like you got a stump in the ground and you're just trying to bend that tree. Yeah. Yeah, he's very good at that. Let me tell you something about Luke, because I got into the octagon right after you won and Luke, you know, if you look to each other, he was like, "Ha!" He was so happy. He was so happy. He was so happy. He was so happy. He was so hard. He was so happy. He was so amazing, because seeing all those videos and knowing he's in camp with you all the time and knowing how much he loves you, watching the happiness that he had with you one was fucking incredible. No, Luke is one of my really, really good friends. He pukes every time before fight, every time, dude. Before Trevor was in my corner, Luke cornered me. He used to go to Arizona with me. I had no coaches. I would just do it in between, you know, in between wrestling seasons. And yeah, he would go down there with me and just wrap my hands and he would just be there. Wow. He's amazing. One of the best human beings on a ride. Yeah, I love that, man. Love ride. Hey, do you tell him about the Sunday? So the Sunday before? The fight. The fight. So there was one time, but I think it was in the cowboy fight. Where you were, you were pummeling with Ben and he finished with a low kick on Ben every time and I'm like, stop kicking your coach and he looks at me and he's like, he's like Trevor. He used to drag me back on the mats. He's like, I'm gonna kick off. I like me. You go back. Just give me this fucking. Give me this opportunity to be his ass. So we go golfing. Joe and I. Sunday we go golfing. The Sunday before the fight. We get there Saturday. We go golfing Sunday. And you know, it's a Sunday. We never work out on Sundays. And Trevor. Not Trevor. Luke and Ben got fucking pickled. Oh my god, of course, they each had like three very, very, very stiff mark, um, uh, uh, bloody marries. Luke bought like 12 beers because we got there and they're like, hey, everybody's on the president. And he's like, fuck yeah, I've never heard that before. He's on the president. I'm going to drink. It's like whole 10 or 11 Trevor's like, let's fuck with them. Let's tell them that we're going to work out later. Well, we're going to work out, but I'm telling them they're, they're going to be the workout. I didn't know we were working out. Put it, I had no fuck. I thought he said Sunday. We're definitely working out. I thought he was fucking with me. And often it's hard to shit. I'm sweating my ass off. I had no idea we were working out that day. He's like, let's fuck with them. Let's tell them that we're going to work out. I was like, all right. Cool. So I told him I was going to text him and give it the workout because I'll get a layout to work out for everybody. And, uh, I told Luke he was going to go three rounds of sparring, uh, full on sparring. And then Ben's got to go 40 minutes straight. No breaks. Just grappling. Got wrestling. Just grappling. And they're fucked up. And dude, and I told Justin that I was like, all right. Let's fuck what to see how he is. And dude, instantly before I did a text that we just started talking about it. So we're on the way home driving home and dude, Ben is like, dude, he's like, he's like, he's like, uh, I'll tell, I'll just take you down and he's like, I asked him, how many times you can take him down? As many as I want. Sometimes I want. Dude, they're 40 minutes. Just go 60 minutes. So they went 20, dude. You got what? Seven submissions on your coach. He drugged him back on the mat. It was so funny because I was like, dude, you got to drag him back on the mat because I got to witness this. It's funny because I got a video, uh, dude, so we get home, I go down, take a nap for like two hours and they just stay drinking up. my YouTube guy filmed everything and they're just talking so much shit. I'm gonna fuck me up. Luke was good though. Luke was like he's been through it. Yeah, I ain't saying this not me and Tim but they're making a plan how they're gonna team up on me and so you got that video there and I'm beating Ben's ass. No actually I went with Luke first and I was fucking him up. I look watching Ben because Ben won't jump in. He's like, what the fuck man? What the fuck man? Now's the time and he's asking for help asking for help. I beat his ass and that didn't have. For sure. It looks great. Great coaches. Our whole team is just everybody so dialed in. Yeah, that whole week is one of my every time we go that whole week is one of my favorite experiences. You were using the sauna in between workouts as well and before. And so we were nothing. That's just sucked. I say it was perfect. You say it was perfect. It was not. It was detrimental to our outside. Yeah, the humidity was there. I didn't realize it because obviously it's not something I can worry about right now. But after round one, I just remember thinking, oh fuck, I am so tired right now. How how is this possible? And the amount of the amount of food I lost. Thank God, it probably lost like 50 now. It was in the 70s. Yeah, 70s with the cool breeze. You know, when you go out there, what you feel is the cool breeze, but in the fire, man, it was different. Yeah, I hated the fact that it was going to happen, but I'm glad it did. I'm again, I would not again, I think, how could you change? It affects me. It affects him. You know, again, I grew up in the country. He's a city boy. There's no way he's not a city. Why don't know? Personally, but there's no way he's not a city boy. You know, and so as a country, country boy from the desert and there was only like I was hoping that it would be hot as fuck hot as fuck. I was like, oh bad. These outside fights kill me. Yeah, you know, he was, he was like shaking. He was like trembling. I was like, holy shit. Well, it is crazy to ask people to defend a world title in a completely alien environment that you'd never have fights in. We've had how many fights outside. We've had the Abu Dhabi fight and like was that 2000 and fucking nine or something like that. No, they did. What was the setting? I wasn't there. It was it was when Al-Assaniah did his famous walk out in like it was covered, but it was it seemed like the environment was outside. Poor your getting against that. In Abu Dhabi, we did one in Abu Dhabi when BJ, the big arena lost to Frankie Edgar. That was outside in Abu Dhabi and that was when Anderson Silva fought Damian Mayan. Is that what they with that Ferrari building? The Ferrari building was there, but I don't know if it was in the same place. They had to do the have a fight in the Ferrari building. I think they did. But I wasn't there for that one. I only went to one of the Abu Dhabi fights. Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't that long ago. I would say within the last seven years. Remember to do it in Morocco said after the first round he was done. He was just trying to survive. He said it was so hot member. Yeah, no, I mean, that's what I remember it being over there. And then, you know, once you realize the climate over there in the humidity, it's like, do members of a fucking a dog? Remember bow dog fights. They had a they had a fight outside in the sun. Yeah, on the beach. Caesar Palace in Vegas. Never see this palace day, the boxing. We got to fight their Viral Philips again. Yeah, that's right. They still always do that side. World two is a fighting around the NASCAR event. Yeah, that's that was crazy. The ran versus her. Yeah, they were, they were great. Yeah, that's true. That's right. I'm at least Vegas is dry. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, zone of Vegas. Yeah, humidity was what I was turning for with him was heatstroke, like dealing with it where you can't breathe. It's heavy air. Like, right. So we put in water on the rocks and the sun as well. Absolutely. And so we trained in a hotter gym. I turned a temperature up in the gym. Just so he's getting used to dealing with a little bit more heatstroke. We would spike my heart rate. And then I would go in the song of 15 minutes. Then I would come out and do eight to 10 rounds. Hmm. That was great. I'm so glad we did it. Very smart. Very smart. Because that environment is, you mean, it's so completely different. I, I just ultimately, I think the best way to fight is obviously the way you usually find controlled environment. That's how it should be. It was cool, though, Joe. You know why so cool, so we did. We did a rehearsal. Okay. And I'm like, why are we rehearsing and walk through like this is a freaking wedding. Like, just tell us where to go. The camera guys are always like, all right, your mark is five. So why are we doing this? And then we go there and we get stuck in the locker room for two hours because of rain. And thank God that happened because then I started to go, oh, because it's all unexpected. And how alien said, hey, I'm a visualizer. I can't visualize this, this arena. And I visualize a lot too. So I was like, I felt the exact same thing when he said that. And that's when I knew, hey, these are going to be some huge unknowns. And I told him that night, because the rain was coming. Like, he was crazy. How the storm split around because it was all bright red. I was like, this is thunderstorms. Yes. And they were talking about pushing the fight to 10 30 PM. We had planned a fight and start the night. I started saying up to like 3 AM after the rehearsal. I was like, 3 AM when we fight. Yeah, I was just starting saying up. But that's what was cool. Like, the walk out, like having the soldiers, like, did just walking through the soldiers. There was that we weren't able to take any of this in Joe. And I can't really speak for him. I know where his mindset. I couldn't from a coach's standpoint. I was nervous as fuck because you don't know. There's no pattern I could take on right now and kind of put myself in brief to it. It was very unique. And at the end, I could. I don't even really smile. It's just like, dude, I'm just like blown away. Now I can kind of just look around slowly and just try to take in everything because it was very, very hard to to go through that scenario with the pressure of us fighting on this stage at the White House. We're the Americans. We're a 6 to 1 underdog. That gets to you. That, that, you know, when you hear that over and over and over and over. It's, you know, you can't hear your phone. Dude, you can't even phone. You caught a Marlin. But having just that scenario was so unique. And then once it was over, then it was like, now I get to enjoy the White House and just being here in this, this, this right behind it. There you can see it. What is he reading there? Is that the decoration independence? Yeah. So we weren't in the room with him right there. We through the rehearsal. Yeah, crazy stuff. He's in the oval office stepping out. And then all the soldiers walking through so cool, like having the two guys next to him. And a lot of people complained about this happening at the White House. But do you don't think this is cool? This is how could you not like this, despite anyone that this shouldn't be taking place to watch the shot the fuck. Dude, life is a fight. World is a fight. This is incredible to watch. It's rational. It's a wild thing to watch. By the way, how much gold did Trump put on those walls? - Look at these fucking gold designs. - We're weird. The over office first thing I said is I was like this day small as hell like when I see it I pictures that like seem so big and I was and but the gold pieces on the wall is the first thing I was like they dust that shit every day because due to it was so clean Well, he put that up there really that was there none of that was there. He was explaining to me There was no gold. I wanted to have gold. He's got a gold cherub like a solid gold cherub That's above look one of the doors because of boot and comps. Hopefully it doesn't fall in his head It's like he's got gold everywhere. It's all him He redesigned a bunch of the things that you know. He's a builder right so that's why you wanted to do the ballroom That's why you wanted to keep it, you know he likes everything in gold. He's a gold guy Was out the powers but watch we're just watching you look at the decoration of independence before you walked out Which is also wild like this is never gonna happen again This is more historic than rumble in the jungle more historic than I mean think about all the great fights that we've all Watched as kids that were like remember that this tops everything because of the scene Because of the fact that not only is it at the White House But the American who's a six to one on some books underdog pulls it off in spectacular fashion and just the seesaw of the The back and forth the fight was fucking huge because the second round was crazy It was like oh no, let it go on again when when it's our corner To all the coaches were like dude, they're gonna stop it and I was set out loud. I was like, please let it go on and I just wanted to finit like a Defended ending dude because that would have been a point where it's like especially with him going Hey, I want to go and continue and then we have got her come out and say hey you are god for mark God Yeah, okay, cuz if it wasn't for mark God or if another lesson he wanted referee You think you did he wanted out. Yeah, you don't you don't you know for a fact you do not ever as a fighter say I cannot see It's over and he was counting on that. He said he had already stated he didn't need to say it again He did not think there was I don't think he thought there was so you think that he called Goddard a turkey internally He was like when he said now you're gonna find me. Hey, I was playing that moment He just like I don't you know, I'm I've tried and it might have been like you know the little devil on a shoulder trying to get him out And then he Re-evaluated re-tunk it and understood that he had to keep fighting because you say don't get re-tunk it I stopped. No, I Stopped twice. I stopped him twice and there's no doubt about it. I love that. I love that This episode is brought to you by on X off-road Ever wonder how to reach these epic mountain legs? They're tucked away dispersed campsites with on X off-road You'll find legal open trails around you and even better guided trails mapped by real off-roaders Each one includes photos terrain descriptions and difficulty ratings So you'll know if your vehicle's capable before you go unlike other apps on X gives you turn by turn directions on the trail And their new dispersed camping layer shows where you can legally set up camp You'll also get private land boundaries public land overlays and the ability to download maps for offline use So that you're never guessing even when you're off the grid It's a powerful tool built for serious off-roaders try on X off-road for 50% off go to on X maps dot com slash Joe Rogan well It was it was a big factor that got her to let it go on because then we got to see that epic fourth round Which is fucking crazy which was just in the end when you landed that knee the body. That was like the final Yeah, that was it. I didn't need a bunch right now. I did that heavy beer that he just starts chopping it where he got the helmet Yeah, and then then he has to quit on a stool and if Goddard had just Given to that referee or that judges or the doctors rather desires. Here it is. I love how you punch right here right on the spot Yeah, I saw right there. Yeah. Oh, right where I just laugh. Yeah, he did not like that and that was the end Crazy fight, I mean, it's crazy how different so again being a fan of this before I've got to watch You know, I would have usually watched this from and yeah, it would have been the most fucking incredible thing ever Being the fighter, you know, you really not Appreciating any of that because there's so locked into It's like golfing like you don't know, but golfing is like certain swing thoughts You know and nothing else can come in nothing can creep in and so Re-looking at the Declaration of Independence. I was looking at it, but I I didn't I Didn't take it in as as this being a decorative. I was sitting there. It's like, okay Goddard reset his feet got to control Goddard move left Goddard move left can't get against the fence You know and then those are the thoughts I'm having as though through the whole walkout and so I'm really not taking any of it in as it as it you know as the show Or as the theatrics of it Of course not watching it in hindsight. Obviously is it's fucking awesome There was something special about you warming up with the American flag on your shoulder toe We're watching that there was something special about watching you shadow box before all this with the American flag on I was like If he wins good Lord if he wins tonight It's going to be fucking insane and it was is the the the feeling of like joy throughout the building throughout the grounds like the Happiness that everybody had seen had been there to see such an incredible event and such an amazing Cap to that event with your fight. It was just nuts. It felt like a whole arena to me It was crazy for that amount of people that you could see here it is to backflip it for the fucking White House Beauty flag that's gonna be a studio floor. That's a sick picture. I rolled out of it. It was yeah Hey, tell me tell me what was it tell me that what we're what you use Newton's law the first law object in motion I just stay in motion. Look at the size of that fucking crowd that was out You could see this crowd like I couldn't see this crowd, but you know what though you can hear them and you could feel them You could feel the energy. I mean even though there was only 4,000 people did not did not feel like 4,000 people It felt like a hundred thousand people because all those people were behind us. You know, it was how many people were in that 85,000 plus. Yeah, I mean so fast the the size of the group outside was insane. Yeah, I mean and they're watching on these giant screens They're freaking out like a concert. Yeah, we were at the way it's it was like dude That's what I picture like Woodstock being like dude. I looked at I could not see the end of the people. Yeah No, it was not the Wayans were nuts when we first walked out of like holy shit. This is crazy But it just shows how hyped people were for this event. You know, I mean it was an incredible event I mean that you have see production team. They just knocked it out of the park and then more importantly you knocked it out of the park It could not have gone bad. It couldn't have gone better and the most important thing was that you did have to overcome That we did see a real back and forth and we did see the skills that led people to believe that this guy is the number one pound for Poundfarter in the world I mean his fucking boxing is it leads his it is Charpshooter and I mean my coach is a fucking genius. I mean when it comes to like again It's really hard to it. You always sound right in hindsight, but the strategy we had Was so perfect to fight a guy like that. I mean if you I think if you ask him right now Which way was Justin moving he's gonna think I was moving right the whole time because my head is so So heavy and I lean over to that side, but I was moving Left the entire time and he's so pointed that you know, he's powerful here But when you when you put him here like nobody can push and spring like he's not ever gonna take off sprinting That way as fast as he can he's gonna have to gather and reset and then and then point and then go and I constantly kept Readjusting him and it was so subtle and that's what fighting is is subtle subtle movements But I mean his game plan was was and then his game plan his mind my Ability but really it's my athletic ability like if People don't understand how athletic I am and I think that is what surprises Every opponent I've ever fought is how you know, harky jerky twitchy how explosive and how athletic I am and I think that's the Biggest asset that I have why do you think anybody be surprised by that at this stage? Why do you think they're surprised because the human because it doesn't look like that? No, you're I just and I think you're looking into the patty fight I feel like the patty fight you you because a lot of people are like oh you look older you look Is because the way we fought like our style are our game paddy I don't squeeze that now I mean if you watch the patty fight you would never expect you would only expect punches coming from here Yes, that's all I threw because he would pull and I had to like wrangle him in wrangle him in and this guy No shot by palm strikes like we need a palm strike them We need to keep him inside of our loop and if if you throw on straight shots at patty patty will disengage Very long with his his upper body so he was throwing wild shots and then long uppercuts like stay on the outside We need to run it because patty's got very good knees coming in so we can't get too deep with that very simple plan But also it was like make it chaotic as most chaotic as you could be To be able to do that because patty his blitzing was very fast. He's a very good blitzer He'll he'll blitz past you and almost like running type of punches like all the V-torbal for it But this fight is a lot different where it's now Elbows in we have to be tied in these types of positions and we need to step to his center and get on his his back foot line or outside of his back foot line. And that was like a key factor to this one is because Ilya is very front heavy and we'll bounce back and forth. So once he goes to this angle, we need to attack the rear shoulder and once he starts to reset, now we're gonna be able to the jab. And stick the jab at the rear shoulder where your jab was landing on, there's my favorite part is the jab was landing here where Ilya's got a very good slide. We're jabbing outside, so you're not doing inside jab coming under. You're jabbing from outside your shoulder which is pushing them on his rear foot. And then once we started to pressure, my favorite part is the jab, pause right hand. His left foot, Justin's left foot, when we go, has to be outside his rear foot right right there. He opened his lead foot and he got his foot outside. And that's also in case the right hand countered. - That was a giant moment in the fight. - Giant moment in that right hand. - To the sound of it was great. - I wanted to sum this up. - Oh, that was such a hard job. - Do that one more time, Jamie. Watch his lead foot after the jab. Now watch his left foot after the jab. Outside the rear foot, boom. - Because he's got a high shoulder. If I'm throwing a right hand down this point, if you were looking at me, Joe, if I'm here, if he gets his foot out, now the shot is coming from here. So we're gonna put him on the back foot and find that over. 'Cause Bailey's got a very good shoulder tuck. - He also dropped that right hand down. - Yeah. - It was beautiful. It was beautiful. And it was such a giant moment in the fight. - Like, look where I started. I started with my back to us. And look out the left, left, left, left. - But if you go out to the left, backwards, that's where Ilya, to me, is the best. How we stop, Volk, where he'll throw at you, and then you go, and then he'll readjust his lead shoulder, almost to us, Alpa. Super dangerous there. That was one thing we talked about. We could not go backwards to the left. 'Cause that's where we get square and Ilya, dude. He's very front heavy, so he will attack you quick. And he gets there fast. - Well, if he can recover from this, it's gonna be a big lesson. A big lesson learned. And, you know, I wonder if he'll still have those celebration dinners the night before. - There's no way. - He better not, dude, his team, that's up to his coaches to be honest with you. - It's a major, huger is an amazing thing. Like, people love that kind of confidence. They love that belief in themselves. And when someone pulls it off, people were talking for days about the olive air fight. You know, he celebrated the night before. Isn't that crazy? - And it worked that time. - It worked that time. - But the lack of experience being the nail. So much experience being the hammer. - It's just that expectations. He never thought he would have to be here. - But you keep saying, don't want to go back to this thing that you said that the people don't think you're athletic. And I don't agree with that. I don't understand why I think that. - I mean, it made me to watch the Michael Johnson fight. It doesn't think you're athletic. - I got to college, you know, my freshman year of college. And I did a cartwheel to a backlip and he's got two, one, I was like, I would have never fucking guessed you could do so shit like that. Like I just don't understand. You know, if you look at me, I don't look like an athlete, but-- - Dude, you want a Ferrari. - No, I know how I thought of him. I just think of-- - What are you talking about? - The perception-- - No, no, no. Your perception's crazy. Listen, you look like an athlete. What the fuck are you talking about? - He said, dude, he sent me in this picture what I first met him from, he went up to do a clinic with his coach up in Granby with Ben Charenton. And he sends me this video out of nowhere, I open it up. And he's got a soccer ball, and he's in this auditorium with the pads out of the ground, and he's got his phone set up on the pads that are against the wall. He throws a soccer ball up in the air, and he does one of those bicycle kicks. - He played just like one or two-- - He did a soccer kick. - He did a bicycle kick, landed on his feet, and the ball knocked the phone off the freaking thing, dude. He hit the freaking phone. It was the coolest thing I've ever seen. I was like, bro, you are nuts. This guy's snowboarding, we use snowboard, 'cause I rode professional with I was younger. He got taken out out of high school for it. And he, this dude, he would catch things so fast and his tumbling, there was one time we were watching him, I mean, he was in moguls and moguls saw kind of snowboard. He does this 360, catches his edge, falls to his back and bounces off one of the moguls to a back flip, right back into the moguls and do these people. I thought he'd bet to do that shit. They're looked to, as I grow, his tumbling skills, you're freaking nuts. You are an athlete. I think everybody knows you're an athlete. - Well, you're not built like Paul Kostov, that's what you mean. - Yeah, it is. - It's like you're not, there's guys that have less body fat than you and guys have more prominent muscles than you, but nobody looks at you fighting and doesn't think you're athletic. That's crazy. - I think it's the experts after the paddy fight saying, oh, he looks sloppy. - And those fights gotta be sloppy. - Those people were retarded. That fight looked like chaos. Looks like you were gonna press him. And you, it also looked like you were kind of disdainful of his ability to hurt you. - There you go. - Yeah, you know exactly. - Yeah, once I didn't respect his power, I was like, I'm fucking walking through. - Yeah, and that's what it looked like. It looked like you were just trying to make it his chaotic. - You make it sound like you had like a water boy, like someone was like, "Woo, the water sucks." And he's like, "Woo!" Making the noises, there's you. - No, you don't believe you. - But that's also probably a good thing that you think about yourself that way, you know, because it forces you to rise above and beyond anybody's expectations of you. You know, and I think one of the things about this fight that makes it so important is because Ilya was so dangerous, you had to get like deep in the zone. You couldn't have a moment like the max fight. - Well, the max fight got me here. Without that, I would have never been as hungry. I said I was gonna happen and it didn't happen. It didn't happen, it didn't happen. Then it happened and it's like, "Okay." Now I can never let my parents see me like that again. That was a driving factor, like I can never let my mom. I remember getting knocked out, I don't remember getting knocked out. I got knocked out. I don't remember anything. I don't remember him getting his hand raised. And it had to have been 40 minutes to an hour. And then I just, my first recollection is being an ambulance and seeing my mom face. - Can I tell you that? Can I tell that story? - Yeah, yeah, tell me what I did because I still don't know. - So we're in the ambulance, okay? And you never know how to do it. - Well, you never know how to do it. - You never know how to do it. - I was sitting there when I came back. - Your mom standing outside the back doors and we're waiting for the driver. There's a medic in there with us, but he's good. But he keeps asking to say question over and over. - I'm still in the waiting list. - And I'm worried about like, you know, everybody's parents are different on how they react. You know, and his mom was just cool. Just like, I was so impressed. I was so impressed with her. Just spirit of seeing that happen. But just as lay there and he's like, he's cool and everything he does. And he's got like this cool like lay. Like he's like, you know, just got stopped. And he's lay in there and he's like, he'll look at me and he gets like his head. And he's like, I got knocked out. And I was like, yeah. - It's like 40 minutes. - It's like 40 minutes round. - What round? And I said last second of the fight and he goes, good for him. Dude, then we like, dude, I'm telling you, like two minutes ago by and we'd just be having a normal conversation and he'd look at me. I get knocked out. And I was like, yep, dude, it happened over it. - It could have happened with fighters. - Yes, but him saying, good for him. - The way he said it every time that he came back to it, like that's the type of person Justin is. Like if he lose in competition, the better man won that night. And that to me is something that stands out to me. - That's character. - Character of him saying when he does it, that subconscious traits that you have. - That character is also the character that allows you to reach your full potential. - Absolutely. - 'Cause you're not being held back by any bullshit ego things. - Not fake. There's a lot of people that are held back. As good as they are, they don't ever reach their full potential because they have some bullshit ego problems. - Absolutely, they care of what everybody thinks. - And that in that situation, losing that fight in the last second and the last run and having that reaction, that is the truest character that a man is ever gonna go through. - Yeah. - That is as true a test of character ever in front of the whole world. - But I remember first to see my mom's face though. So our face and I saw no concern. She was worried about me, but she was not concerned. - She wasn't freaked out. - No, she wasn't freaked out at all. I was like, and that's when I never reset and asked if I had gotten knocked out again after that moment, I don't think. - No, no, once it happened for probably, I'd say you probably asked it six or seven times. And then once then we were cool for probably five minutes before we went to the hospital. They were totally cool. The cool part about this, Joe, is those are some of my, and it sucks because he's taking a shot like this. But me as a coach and as someone that just loves fighting and loves the inspiration and what these guys do is those are my proudest moments. Winning a fight like this, it was proud. And you know, take it in, you're going, "Wow, this is a cool spot to be in." And you have to be grateful for it. But there's times where I'm caught smiling when my fighters are down, like when, Camaro got kicked and I stood next to him with the biggest smile just because I'm like, dude, you went out on your shield, you were looking so good. And this is the way you stand up. Again, so important to me, it's Justin Salis, one time with Tim means, it was one of my proudest moments, just to see his subconscious. Like I love the mindset of people. Dude, Tim means, hits him with a knee. And he fights through it a little bit and takes another knee and he goes down and he's on the ground and his right leg is still like moving and he's like still punching and he's out. And I'm like, dude, that's a fighting spirit. Like there is no quitted. Like you're fighting through being knocked out. And subconsciously, he's still in the fight and his body is still reacting that way. Instead of shelling up and being like, I just got rocked, I'm gonna shell up. I could not wait to get in the octagon and they're like, not trying to let me in. I'm like, let me just get over to him and sit next to him and put some ice on the back. When we stop guys, I'm always over to the other opponent first. To me, that's the coolest part is being able to see someone go out there and do their best and then to watch them come back. And that's why I'm very excited. to kind of see what happens with Elliot. This is gonna be a hard one to overcome, but I hope he does, 'cause he's that talented. If he takes the right lessons, that's gonna be a super inspirational thing to overcome. It's gonna be hard, but I share hope we get to witness that. - I wonder if he's gonna stay at 155. - There are big guys at 155, and he wasn't that big for 45, you know, you think about weight cutting in the modern era. Like you're considerably bigger than him. - When you guys were standing next to each other, there's a big difference in front of him. - I've also really focused on getting bigger last three or four fights. - Yeah. - Yeah, I mean, I-- - You were 83 in a patty fight. - And I had a weight, yeah, I was 83 in a patty fight. - I touched 80s this fight. We waited on Saturday at 11. Saturday when I went to bed, I think I was 184. - Oh wow. - And then I think when I woke up, I was like 176. That's how much water flow, it's crazy. My bodies are crazy. - Right, especially because of all the weight cutting. - But I think when I got there, I was pissing so much. I was actually too hydrated for the drug test. So I had to piss three times. I couldn't drink water. - You were too hydrated for a drug test? - Yeah, so if the piss is too diluted, then they make you do it again. - Really? - Yeah. - That's why, you know, doing it after a fight. - They do it after a fight. - They do it after a fight all the time. - But your adrenaline's gone so you don't pee. So it takes a long time. We've sat in locker rooms for hours waiting for the piss test. But when you're doing it after like rehydration, that's a shitty thing because these guys have to hydrate. Everybody's fucking taking as much fluids as they can. So that makes it tough. But with the weight cutting piece with him going back down, I agree with you. I think Elias is a smaller body, but he's also a big advantage for Elias speed. And when you go up and wait, that speed is a huge factor. If you see a lot of guys go up like with Max, Max kept his speed when he came up. When he went back down, I think everybody was like, oh, he beat Max, he beat a drained Max. - Yeah, I think that weight cut down to 45 for him was brutal. - And this is where, from like a coaching standpoint, if it is hard for you to make it at that weight, I care about the longevity of a person. And I've seen guys get dropped with jabs because of bad weight cuts. - Yes. - And going back down and that's to me the scariest part in this fight game. - Well, I think there's two things we have to change to the fight game. One of them is weight cutting and two of them is your gloves. - Absolutely. - You're fucking close it. But the weight cutting thing, don't you think that we need more weight classes? - I should say do you think we need more weight classes? - I think there's many ways, I think you're gonna have to have some type of a weight class. And there's different ways to do it. Like maybe you have where you can't go over a certain amount of weight after you make weight and you weigh in a week out where you can really recover. - Because I think guys are gonna do it any way. - They are, but I think, for me, I want nothing to change. I mean, we are grown-ass men and women. And we're making these choices. - Right, but you can make 55 and it's good for your frame. Now imagine this guys. - You don't understand how hard it is for me to make 55. - I'm sure it's hard. - No, no, no, I'm not thinking it's easy, but you can't make it, you've made it over and over again. But like, think about guys that are in between. - Yeah. - Like 60 or 65 or like it boxing out. - 70 to 85 is crazy. - 85 to 205 is bananas. - Yeah. - And then 205 to 265, that's- - Those we classes are already watered down. In a way. And so you're just gonna water it down more. - So these are my thoughts and my research that I've done that it's, I've talked to Dr. D about it. And I want to get some expert, some doctor who can actually talk to me about this. Because when I started researching boxing and why is there so many deaths in boxing, what stood out to me was almost every death in boxing in the last 10 to 15 years. - Come to me. - There's every once in a while from a punch where they get dropped and they don't get up. And they get hemorrhaging. Almost all of them are past the ninth round. Especially the ones I'm talking about that don't take a punch. They're past the ninth round and it looks like they start to get tired and they're just like, "Hey, I need to take a knee." And lay down, a lot of these guys are winning the fight. And not even taking a lot of damage. And if we're cutting weight the day before, you're teaching your body to sweat and sweat and sweat. To me, I believe, because I've had a fighter where, you know, come on, his last fight where you're crappy, so bad, so scary, so frickin' scary. - Oh, it's cold off. - Dude, I was within like minutes of call and I talked to the whole team about it. But if you dehydrate yourself, think about lips. If they get dehydrated, they crack when I smile. And if you dehydrate your brain, and I talked to Dr. D, I was like, "Could that be something if you dehydrate your brain?" We call something, he's like, "Absolutely." And then I started to research that. But if you go back and look at all the boxers, and if we can get someone that could do their true research that understands this stuff, that to me is like, what scares me about weight cutting? 'Cause you're training your body to lose that amount of weight. And when you start to do things in patterns, you just, D, took all the nutrients out of your body and then you're going hard in a fight like that. And I was like the big thing with the Tony Ferguson fight, that's kind of funny now, but it wasn't funny to me. I didn't give no fucking water for a fly-round fight. That is crazy. And the longer you take your brain to that point of dehydration, that's the scary thing. - That didn't give him water, you just forgot. - Dude. - Yeah, we were locked in. - This guy don't train with water. So it was like, dude. - Yeah, I don't drink water. - I train, I don't drink water. - I don't drink water, practice. 'Cause everyone's like, "You want water?" I'm like, "Water for pussies." (laughing) No, I don't want water. Talk about the mindset. - You don't drink any water in training at all. - No, he'll drink afterwards. Like, we did this fight. - They made me this fight. - Okay, so do you think that that, - Luke gave my water boy. - Luke gave my water boy. - No, because I, it doesn't, it can't, 'cause I'm fucking working right now. I'm locked in, like, I might not get water one day. You know, they might, I might want water one day. - Even when you do a strength conditioning, everything. - Nothing, I never drink water. - Wow, so you make sure you're hydrated before you get in there. - And I drink a lot after. - But once you're in there, you just going. - Yeah, this fight was different. - That's crazy. - You made an asshole. - You know, Ramadan's nuts, like, you know, I know balal was training with no water. And, you know, drinking no water during the day and then training again at nighttime. And you know, that's, that's gotta be so hard. But going through hard training sessions and no water, so you do it, but, so there's two things going. Why don't, why don't you think, maybe you could do more work and get more route, make more reps and more of this if you're rehydrating. But then the other thing is like, would you? And how much mental toughness, so you're getting by not giving yourself water, right? - It's a crutch. - And the mental toughness thing ultimately won you this fight. There is a lot of fucking human beings at the top, the top level of the sport that would have folded in that second round. - You did look the happiest at the Tony Ferguson family. - I never looked you, Gaby. - I never contemplated it. No, once. It's not for one second. - Of course. - Did I contemplate that I was done? - No, I mean, you, that's, that's how you fight. And then he was like, oh, fuck. - Oh shit. - Did you get to hear him in the corner? - He goes, dude, that was a good body shot. I was like, yeah, that was a sweet body shot. Who does that? - I know. - Who sits down as like, dude, to look at his face wasn't like eyebrows, like a, like a frame cabin. - Well, even after the fight, you were talking about how skilled he was. - Yeah. - You were talking about it. - Yeah. - I mean, I could go, I could go so many different ways with how I react in this fight. I just wanted to be known how disrespectful he would have been if he beat me. If he put me to sleep, if his, I mean, can you imagine how shitty he would have been? And I mean, it would have, it would have, it was his persona and the world. - And the world. - And the world would have been fucking shitty. - Like they're doing. I was fighting for so much. I was fighting for so much that night. - Yeah. - You know, I'm never going to let people, for one, I know how special what I've done is and it would have taken all of it away with the loss. And I wasn't going to let that happen. - How about the people called hitting his loaded gloves? Do you see the picture that the image there's like rocks in his head? - It was. - It was so funny. - It was so funny. - What a compliment. - Have they not watched any of his fights? - Yeah. - People saying I'm juice, what a compliment. People saying I got bricks in my fucking gloves, what a compliment. - People are silly, you can't read the internet. - There's always going to be someone fighting something. - I know, but again, you go, I got here because I was petty. - I read comments. - Sure. - I read comments. - They fuel you? - They do. - They do. - I've talked to him. I told him not to do it because I'm like, bro, this fucks with so many people, we had the conversation outside. I guess it'll cause your mind to go crazy. And he's like, I love it so much. - David Goggins takes haters and he records them on a loop and then plays it to himself while he runs. - Yeah, I mean, that's crazy. I don't need to have it on there. I don't need to have it on video. - I know. - Right. - I know what they're saying. I knew what they were saying every fucking day. - Right. - And that's, you know, partly why one. - Well, it's, you know, that Teddy Roosevelt quote about the man in the arena, you know. - Yep. - That's what it is. It's like, there's always going to be people on the sidelines or talk about. - It's impossible to mention. - Especially at that level that you're fighting because in businesses you are, you can never make everybody happy. - No. - That's why it's hard to be a champion. - With sucks. - The pressure. - That's a mental to like, overall like what you're trying to achieve and it's just so hard. - Well, you can't make everybody happy because some people are just not happy period. It's like you being awesome is going to make them happy. - You're still going to want them to be happy. - Yeah, but some people are not, they're not healthy. They're not mentally healthy. Their brain isn't right. They haven't done the right things in their life and they see success as being somehow or another, it steals their own personal joy. people's success is bad because they compare themselves to other people and they They realize that they saw it. - I love seeing things happen. Good things happen for people. - They're like beacons. - When Max knocked me out, I was like, good for him, like I'm fucking imagining what he's feeling right now. - Yeah, but because you have given everything you have, you've truly maximized your potential. You've made mistakes, you've made great decisions, and ultimately you wound up winning the biggest fight of all time. - No, to exceed that, but that's why you can be happy for other people. - To exceed your expectations from 2017, to exceed his expectations from 2011, to exceed my own expectations is, I mean, I cannot describe how special and how good that makes me feel, you know, in general. Like that was my goal. - My expectations of you, you didn't exceed a man. I always had a feeling that you were gonna do some wild shit. And after the Tony Ferguson-- - You couldn't have said I was gonna do this. - No, look at this scene. - This scene, there was a lot of conversations that I had with people that were counting you out, those are like, I don't, I think you can win this fight 100%. I mean, I said it on the podcast. I even had said it to Ilya, like Ilya was saying it was gonna be-- - I've seen that podcast and he was so wrong so many times. You know, not just the whole, he has zero chance against Patty. He said something about how I probably sleep during the day more than I do at night because I party too much. And it's like, you were so, you don't remember him saying that. He said that he said something about weed, and you're like, I don't care about weed. But for him to think that that's true, it's fucking insane. - And you have five luces? - That's just-- - Dude, now he's got one lucid. He's gonna have to-- - But yeah, I was like, wow, what a fucking idiot. You know, like, to think that I got here by just being a, a guy that drinks and, you know, has fun all the time. Like, that's fucking crazy. My life is so boring. I don't go to bars, I mean, I don't do any of that. I sleep eight to 10 hours every single night. I will sleep in 10, but it's too much, so now I have to sleep eight. But for this whole week, I will sleep in 12 hours every single night of the fight week. - That's nice. - He was so fucking nice. - That is nice. You know, it's just one of those things. If he wanted to watch your, you have a YouTube channel. He could watch-- - Well, I mean, he also said something to be said about how I knew he was watching. If you go back to my other, like, we'll always show sparring. We'll always show him he admits. I didn't show myself any myths one time as camp. I didn't show myself sparring one time as camp. - Purposely. - We were switching up the game plan big time. - 'Cause he knew-- - So he had no, he had expectations, but none of them were based in reality. And I controlled that. - That's awesome. - Yeah. And then we know-- - So smart. - So smart. - When I did make the comment about his wife, you know, it was in a, in an interview like this, where we're just fucking around, and I said it ingest. I didn't, it was 100% true. I was like, he's so fucking annoying. I couldn't imagine being in the same room with him, you know, with his pompous attitude, you know, and you just trying to like, hang out with the guy, but he's constantly stealing all the thunder and it's irrational. And it's like, I would leave him too. Like, I mean, if that's my part, like, that's why I broke up with my girlfriends, 'cause they were somewhat like that. (laughing) And so I didn't mean it in a mean way. Like, I would never dig at somebody and I would never make fun of someone's personal experience, but that was like, that was just my honest take. - You are the honest guy. - And I was joking, but, but it was true. - You just say what you feel. - I said so many two things to him. I said the, so many, I told him that he's gonna, go to the second round, go to the third round, you're gonna be fucked, because you're not gonna be able to pull yourself out of this, you know, with the way that you're thinking. There's no possible way you can have these expectations, face adversity, and then come out in a positive way. There's no way it can happen. You could dig deep, and you could be even more of a narcissist than it might work, but you're gonna walk yourself into a situation that is gonna fucking be detrimental to you. And this is detrimental to his psyche. And this is 90% mental. - And so again, I wanna see him go, I hope that he adjusts to loss. But, you know, honestly, we'll be with himself. - The strategy has to change. You can't just hit the gas like that. And we've seen that with boxers, we've seen that with all kinds of fighters. They just think they can just hit the gas. Well, obviously you had to make your own adjustments. - Yeah. - You know how he overcame the max pipe? - How? - He adjusted. (laughing) (laughing) - What did you play golf every year? That's a year. - Six months straight. - Every day, dude. - Wow. - This guy got really good. - I was good. - Yeah, DC was brave and about it. He's like, I never see anything like it. He goes, this guy's playing golf, like he's been playing for years. - That's crazy. - It's really good, everything's funny. It's, well, you know, that's the mindset that's coachable. That's a coachable mindset. Competitive and also objective. You know, it's the same reason why you think you're not athletic. It's like, you can look at yourself in a critical way and then see what adjustments you have to make where a lot of people are delusional. - Yeah. - And then delusional keeps you from getting good at every thing in life. - You do what you perceive, dude. You've got a perspective is everything. Like, how are you seeing things? And you always got to see it from the internal. That peaks in valleys, like this right here. Like, we come home and even through the airport, we're like, there's no celebration. I can see it. - It is what it is. - Yeah. - We have to, we're just like, "Peace will kill you." - Peas will kill you. - Peas will kill you. - No one was buying us drinks. Like, we got there, we got there a little bit early. - Should have been a fucking parade. - Yeah. - I know, but I don't want that. - Yeah. - I know. - That's right. - I know you don't. - You don't. - But I have to do it because I do need to take advantage. Like, I am the champion. It's crazy. He still can't fathom it. But I am the champion and I need to, I need to be the champion. - Be the champion. - And be the champion. Joy being the champion for a little bit. - And you need to look at yourself in the mirror and be like, there's times to sit back and have bliss. Where you're like, "Man, I freaking did it." Like, there's times that really-- - I thought that would come. - That's the mean, you run down fucking yelling out different brands of mayonnaise with no more fucking clothes on and make bad decisions. You're like, "What was that for?" "Shit, dude, we did fucking three fists, so fucking vodka." - Are you gonna continue fighting? - Right now, I'm fighting on it. - Yeah. - 'Cause you were talking about going out with that fight. - Again, there's not something natural in me that feels like it's over. - Mm, so that's all I can say. - Also, after a performance like that. - Yeah, I mean, I'm obviously-- - Either way though. - The best, either way. - Also, capitalize. 'Cause the financial, financial capital. - Yeah, but I'm in a place where it's like, I deserve to be compensated for what I have done. - 100%? - Not for what I'm going to do or I shouldn't have to fight next to be, you have C300, you have C324. And now this, those are the biggest stages that the UFC needed somebody to do something phenomenal. And they picked me every single time and I delivered. I wasn't the main event of UFC 300, but combing events still stole the show, even though I lost. And so I think I need to be compensated for what I've done. That's where I'm at. - So that's also-- - I'm talking about in the future for like a next fight. - Like-- - Yeah, re-negotiating. - No, no, no, no, no, I'm not talking about for the next fight. I'm talking about the UFC should make a company and give me equity in that company. And, you know, so I can build passive income like that. Like, I'm not saying that's what that's what-- - Have you talked to them about something like that? - No, no, I would, I've never asked, luckily I have a personal assistant now. So she asks for things for me, but I've never been the guy that asks for things. I wish, I wish people that were opposite me, that asked for things and get all kinds of things. I wish I was given those things without asking because obviously people know that it's appreciated and I like it, but I'm not ever gonna-- Like, I'm not taking this truck from fucking Armin. There's absolutely no way I would take a truck. He never shook my hand. - Oh, this is Armin Sarukin. We should explain that. - Yeah. - So, Armin Sarukin, he bet a million dollars on Justin. - It's fine. - And one, he won like five three, I believe. - Five seven. - Five seven? - Yeah, yeah, so it's seven. - So he's gonna buy me a truck. - Wow, I mean, I would never-- - We'll cut a truck. - Well, now I just saw yours. - Get a Raptor. - I have a Shelby Raptor block. - Those are pretty dope. - Those are dope. - But I think now that I've seen your truck, that will be my next truck. - Also, it has USA on the side. - Yeah. - You see the rap? - So that's it. - You didn't do that rap? - Uh-oh. - Dude, that is sweet. - No, I want that truck. - Well, you need that truck. - Yeah. - Tell Armin to buy you that fucking truck. - No, I'm not taking that truck. - What the fuck, if I was Armin, I would force it down your throat. I would deliver it to your house and give you a hug. - No way. - You want him five million, seven hundred thousand dollars. - I didn't have to ride around in a fucking truck that a dude bought from me every day. I don't know, I just can't go there. - No, I just can't go there. - You won that truck. - We didn't shake on it. He doesn't always do that. - I don't give a fuck. Take that guy down your truck. - I'm not sure what you do. - Yeah. Take the truck, dude. It's first of all, it's cool. - Yeah. - And he might also be your next opponent. - Yeah. - I mean, that's possible. - That's possible. - That's the guy. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - That's the guy, if there's anybody else in the division, that is the guy. Now that Islam is up at 170, who else is there? That's the guy. - I agree. - Yeah. - And what a division. Holy shit. And now Charles is saying he wants to-- - It's being that. - He wants to fight you. - It's his fucking division. - And the lightweight title on the line, that would be crazy. There's fights available. - Yes, there is. - Big, big. What are your thoughts when you're thinking about competing? Who do you think it will be? - Do you think it would be Armin? - No. - I can't say that I have a name. - Do you think Ely's gonna try for a rematch? - No, he doesn't get a rematch. He can try, but he doesn't get one. - Wow. - He quit on the stool. He quit twice, I stopped him twice. What else do I have to fucking do? Plus, his next challenge can't be me. He needs to fight Patti or someone like that. - Does Patti have a fight scheduled? I think he's fighting. - Same to me. - Yeah. - Ooh, let's talk fight. - Yeah. - Benoit's a beast. - It's a tough game. It's a fucking crazy game, man. - It's a crazy game. - It's the craziest game. - Fight far. - Think about where you were when you lost to Max and then where you are now. Just like think of the highs. - Wasn't that long ago, either. - Was not that long ago. - Now you got the BMF champ wanting to fight you. - I have every belt. - Like. - I have three belts, three real belts, two in terms, but those are fucking real belts. A real belt, the BMF belt, and then UFC 250 belt. - Yeah, the UFC 250 belt. - No one's so cool about it. - No one's cool too, it's so heavy. - I mean, being a bit of heavy, that shit is freaking heavy. - Being a fan of this sport, what do you want to come in here and do things that are not easily attainable? - Yeah. - And I've done a few things that are impossible to attain. Nine bonuses in my first seven fights. 16 fights in the UFC, I probably what, like 12 main events. - Yeah, at least 10 main events. - At least 10 main events. - And to be put in the main event of a UFC fight is fucking huge. Like, you know, you go on the poster, not many people get to experience it, and I've done it almost every single time. And so, I mean, yeah, I mean, I've done something unattainable. - It's gotta feel good. - It feels great. - It feels great. - It feels good. - As a fan, it feels good. - It feels good to have guys like you out there. - Right, as a fan of yourself. - As a fan of the sport. - As a fan of the sport, getting to see what you've done. - Yeah. - What did you think about Ciro Gon? - We didn't do so. - We didn't get to see it. - We didn't see it. - Yeah, we're in the locker room like, "Are you guys gonna go to a different staging room as soon as Bruce Buffer starts announcing?" So, they took us into a room with no screens. That's probably where the video of me shadow boxing with the flag. - Yeah. - That's where we're in there. - We were in there for like 30 minutes before I walked. And we could hear, you know, you could-- - A little bit. - You hear the, I heard the ding of the, you know, the end of the round the horn. I was like, "Okay, was that round one?" Yes. And then you hear nothing. And then I didn't even hear the finish. Like, I didn't hear the crowd roaring. - I couldn't hear the crowd. - And then I heard, and still. - Yep. - Right? - Yep. - 'Cause he was, he was-- - No, no, no. - He said, "And new." 'Cause they were both gonna be new. - I thought it heard him. - And then they said, "Still." - No, it's either gone. We heard gone. - Yeah, they heard gone. I was like, "Oh, fuck, he won." And then-- - Bro, that guy moves like a cat. - That's, it's crazy. For a heavyweight, I love watching heavyweights that can move. Like, they remember the Mike Tyson era. Just watching, I was, I love watching Mike Tyson. And just watching all the guys he fought. - Heavyweight boxing was so good at that time. People used to jump real. Now it's like, like, I'm not gonna say that, that all heavyweights are lazy. But, you know, my knees are bad. I'm a big person. Like, those guys can move. And Cyril Conn is one of those guys. - Well, here's the most-- - It's so fast. - And think about him as he started out as a basketball player. So think about basketball. It's all these plyometrics. So constantly changing direction and moving and jumping. - Agility. - Yes, it's all agility. And that translates so brilliantly to his striking style. Because you've got a guy who's 248 pounds who moves like a middleweight. Who moves like, even lighter than that. I mean, it really moves like a Walter weight almost. He's fast. And just very agile. And when you notice it is like, 'cause you know how good Pereira is. And Pereira getting lit up on his feet like that. And then drop with a jab. It's like, woo! - Yeah. - Perfect timing. - And it's heavyweights. Like, those are big dudes. Like, obviously, Pereira is put on some weight, but it's frame size. - Yeah. - It's, you know, and Pereira's got a big frame. But there's levels. - Yeah, your body's been that weight for a long period of time. Like, it's again, that consistency. It's MMA guy going into boxing. Yeah, there's shorter rounds. But you're hitting sprints every round. Like, there's, you have to do it for a period of time to be able to adjust to that. That's a different, everything that you do, you have to slowly go into those positions. You can't just jump into it. - And when you think about how big he was at 205, it maybe would have even been better for him to not really put on much weight. - Yeah, I agree. 100%. - Because it's not like Cyril Gond's a grappler. - And you got to be fast. - Yeah, you got to be fast. - Like, your speed's a factor. - It's a giant factor. And he's got insane power. I mean, his power has always been heavyweights. - He'll carry that with him. - Absolutely. He's not going to lose his power. - Because he was so big. He was 251. And I was thinking, man, now, it's like, even though you have more power, you're also moving around with extra weight on your body. Like, you're, you're weighed down more by gravity. I mean, Gond looked so light and so loose. He's just like that style for a heavyweight light on the toes like that is so unusual. - And not allowing parrard to set his feet. - No, never. - Like, that's very smart. - And even like, feigning take downs, it's not like he committed to those, but he's got him thinking about, look at how he drops him with the fucking jab. Now, here's the question, because one of the things that parrard is saying is a lot of, there's a illegal shot. A lot of the shots were illegal into the back of the head. But a lot of them were to the side of the head. - They're close. - They're close, 'cause it can, - And then the first one. - When he went next. - Yeah. - When they explain it to you, it's a two-inch line down, like a mohawk. But it's like, this is legal, this is legal. - Yeah. - This is legal, this is illegal. - Legal illegal. - And the couple of those shots definitely landed illegally. But there's also-- - No, there's a hammer. - There's a hammer in the first part. - Did you see a drop of his head down to the hips? - Exactly, exactly. - So you're moving, you know? - That's legal, that's a illegal. - There's a couple of illegal ones. - There's probably three or four. - Right, but it's also movement in chaos. It's not like he's trying to deliberately-- - That's like poking someone in the eye on purpose. Like if I was that good, I would touch their chance. - Right, right. - How was the fight? - That's a lot. - Was the fight stopped there on the ground? - No, no, kept going. This is actually the finish of the fight right here. - Okay, that was a finish. - Because of the big elbow right here and rocked him. I mean, Pereira was in real trouble. I mean, he got fucked up and Serogon did a fantastic job. He really put it on him. - Should you ever stop a championship fight on the ground? - This is it right here. - That was it right there. - Yeah, I would have. - At that point, yeah, that was a good start. - I haven't watched a fight here. - Here's the stoppage right here, you could see. - I haven't either, and I'm just watching this. - Yeah, that's, like he felt it was a cumulative. It was so many blows. Maybe he could have taken one or two more after that for sure, but Pereira is pissed off at Herb Dean. And he's saying Herb Dean should never ever agree again, because he allowed those shots to the back of the head. - I mean, you're in the moment. I mean, fight, but that's natural for a fighter to do. Like, to get that out of the way. - Well, if the situation, you wanna, first of all, you gotta bring awareness to it. So they're not, you know, they're, you have to always be aware of, hey, I could have did better here. 'Cause that's how we all grow. So we need to do, need to talk about it. But from what I just watched there, and I haven't watched the whole fight, was the fight competitive at all? - Yes, okay. - The first round was very competitive. So that would change a little thing there. From what I just watched right there at the end, that was, that looked like good finish to me. - The first, the reps have such a tough job. I've been, I'm notorious for being really hard on these reps, because, I mean, it's, they, you expect them to be, you need them to be perfect. Their, their main job is to protect you. When I found Michael Chandler, I'm still, and again, I only speak about it now, because I've never had a retraction from the referee. Whenever he poked me in the eye, and then he didn't get in between us, and he let him hit me with a huge shot, and then he doesn't give me my time to rest, not rest to recover. And there was only five seconds left in the round, so it turned out that I got a break anyways, but he goes in there, he says, are you good? I said, no, I'm not good. He just poked me in the fucking eye. And he says, okay, well, are you good? And so then it's like, can I still fight? So I said, yeah, I'm good. And he said, okay, go. - Who, what referee was this? - He's a guy with a braid that he puts in his thing. - Oh, Mike Beltram. - Yeah, Mike Beltram. And so, I was very upset that he let Michael Chandler in that shot, and I know why he was so scared of the fucking heat we were throwing, that he didn't want to jump in there and get in the middle of it, but his job is to protect me. And he filled, he filled so bad right there, and so like, after the fact that I need you to acknowledge this, so that you do not ever let that happen to another athlete in there, because you fucked up so bad. And, you know, he's trying to justify it, and it's like, what the fuck are you doing? How can you justify this? And so that, for me, that that pisses me off. And then the decision not to give me my time. Like, I need an explanation, you know, 'cause I need to know that you are gonna learn from this experience. And for right now, I still believe that he doesn't think he did anything wrong. And so, I'm still upset about that. - Well, once you say someone-- - It's not petty, we're petty, you know what? - You should be in that situation, because you say to someone, you got poked in the eye, are you good? And you're like, yeah, I'm good, but I got poked in the fucking eye, and then you're supposed to say-- - One or two seconds. - One or two seconds, but are you good? I said, well, yeah, I'm good. - You're supposed to, you're not-- - He says, okay, go. - Are you good is not the right question. You have five minutes. Are you ready to fight? Can you see, do you need to bring in a doctor? There's a series of questions, but you have five minutes. It's very important. For a fight to get poked in the eye, you have five minutes to recover. - Yeah, I didn't feel like, I didn't know. I didn't know at the point. I feel pressure in my face right now. Like, I don't, this feels poor. - You're not gonna know for a couple of seconds. - Yeah, I don't know. You're gonna-- blink a little bit, move around a little bit. All right, I'm good. And that's when you're, it's supposed to be very clear. That's when you're ready to reengage. - And that's what I'm saying. That's the mistake he has to learn from 'cause it was such, and after the round ends, I walk over to him like, dude, get your fucking head of your ass. What the fuck are you doing? He's like, go to your stool. He's like, no, what the fuck are you doing? Like your job is to protect me. You just let me get you hit. With a huge fucking shot, what is going on? And he's like, go to your stool, go to your stool. And I sit down and then boom, never thought about it again, but still pissed off about that one. - You should be. I mean, that's, that makes sense. I mean, that's a mistake. - Who's the rep that against Koby? After the fight, he corners me in the hallway. And he's like, I know you would never, never tap. I was like, I tapped three times. He's like, no, you would never tap. I'm like, I'm like, dude, if I'm the horse's mouth, I'm telling you, I tapped. And he still was like, no, no, you wouldn't tap. I was like, what the fuck, how can we get through this? Like I tapped three times, I went to sleep. - And you went to sleep. I've seen that. - Yeah, I tapped three times. - 100% you tapped. - 100% and he's like, no, you know, I know that you, with the way that you compete, - Who's the referee? - What's that guy saying? - I only wanted to hurt Zog. I only wanted to tell him one of the bus, you know, because it's like, his intentions were good for me, you know, he believed I was, it gave you a chance. It gave me a chance, but like, I fucking tapped. Man, like I did. - And the fight should have been successful. - And I went to sleep because of it. And luckily there's no detrimental, like chronic, you know, long lasting problems because of getting choked out. So I mean, there's no repercussions. Yeah, there's no concussion, there's no TBI. Like it really is not detrimental at all. As long as you don't hold it too long and I die, as long as I wake up, I'm good. - Right. - And so I was like, okay, the repercussions are as severe. And so like whatever, I'll just let this go. But ultimately he did, I mean, I was telling, even when I told him he didn't believe me. - That was the first thing you said when you jumped up, you went over to him, and then you guys had the conversation afterwards, but you went over to him saying, dude, what the fuck, I tapped. - Yeah, dude. - He's like, how you did it? Then we see him later, but that was the first thing. - No, no, he didn't, I was like, dude, I tapped three times. I tapped three fucking times. - Yeah, that was pretty obvious. - Like, you know what I mean? - And everyone was like, oh, you said you know, you're some kind of fucking, you think you're some kind of Superman, why would you tap? It's like, when your life is ending, you know, you're a fool if you don't understand that. Like, I knew I was dying. And that's just where I was. - Yeah. So I didn't have the opportunity. - You are to everybody. He said their eyes were like, no, dude. I know you better than you do. You never tap, like, you kind of fight like that. - That's what I mean. People think the best, the best thing up to this moment is people, people don't give me credit for my intellectual abilities. And I've also played into that. And I've also understood how big of an asset is for people to approach me like that. You know, thinking that I'm just some animal that doesn't think or feel or whatever, whatever people think or think I'm retarded. - Well, I think what it is is when you are such an animal, people think you can't be smart. Because a smart person would be aware of the consequences and wouldn't have the courage to fight the way you fight. That's all it is. And people who don't have that kind of courage, they like to dismiss people that fight like savages because they got a wild savages can't be smart. That's not right. That's not correct. People, it's like, you see a really hot woman, you go, oh, she got to be a retard. Like, no, some of them are really fucking smart and also hot, you know, like the world is confusing. And you can't categorize people and put them into things, little, little, you know, little fucking boxes just to make you feel better. - Yeah. - That's all it is, you know? And your-- - And the thing is, I never signed up, like, when we were walking out to the press conference, there's like 12, 15,000 people out there. I look at the guys, like, dude, I never, ever signed up to be a public speaker. What the fuck are we doing here? Like, I never wanted to be in this, where I talk in front of this many people. Like, that's not what I prepared myself for ever. And now I'm in this situation where I have to, you know, every single word I get, I say before these fights is analyzed by the world, like the whole, you know, my father is my dad. Like, sometimes I get tongue tied. - Yeah. - Sometimes I misspeed, I do too, and I talk for a living. - That's what I mean, but nobody, if people understood, had to listen to themselves, they would understand that they also make mistakes. And so it's like, fuck, man, like, I can't be perfect. I'm sorry. I really missed it. - I didn't mean my dad was my father, even though, you know, it fucking makes sense. And it's true. (both laughing) Listen, you're dealing with a bunch of people that have to write stories. - Yeah, they have to, yeah. - It's not about writing a story because something's interesting. They have to make a story, no matter what it is. Their way, their job is to create content. And when you, your job is to create content, you make content out of nothing. And it's not usually, it's usually not good. And that's what they're doing. They're making good deals out of nothing. - If I could have been mentally coached, it would have been in that aspect. - Public speaking? - Just like, I think you speak very well. - No, no, it's just, I guess there's no lesson to learn. You just have to do it through experience. - Yeah, it's like fighting. You just do it a bunch of times and you get comfortable with it. Or you're naturally talented, like Connor. You know, what the fuck is that guy? - Smart guy. - Yeah. - He's great at that. Like, he's fantastic at that shit. I mean, that's where he shines. - You ain't lying. You are like Tom Petty. Tom Petty at Heartbreakers. You are a petty. Who cares what people think? - I think he speaks great, right? - I like to see what people are saying about my, our interview and the, you know, 'cause I wanna see the perception, I want to. - Just keep it smile. - Yeah, but the thing is you're asking for the perceptions from people that you would probably never fucking talk to in real life 'cause they're dumb and annoying. - What? - And also the people that are most likely gonna comment. The people that are most likely gonna, you think Michael Jordan's out there leaving YouTube comments? - No. - Right, it's not people that have their fucking shit together and have big goals, people who are really dialed in and really fucking disciplined, and the people whose opinions you'd respect did not leave in comments. They're certainly not even shitty comments. - You nailed that. That's just the real, and I'm not hating on these people. I'm just saying, like, I would have been one of them. If you, if somebody give me a fucking YouTube account when I was 17, I'd be posting the most horrible shit about everybody, right? Everybody would. You're a kid, or you're a dumbass. You don't have your life together yet, but that's the type, you can't listen to them and take that as gospel, 'cause it's just not. - Just seeing him walk through the airport and just everybody's perception when they see you and meet you is so great, dude. Like, people would be like, bro, the haters. If the haters met you, they're like, bro, my big fan. - Yeah, but still, but it's one of those things is like the inspiration on people like, everybody comes up and they're like, you're a favorite fighter. Like, I have the brand that you're the, you're a favorite fighter, favorite fighter. Like, that is unique. - Yeah. - That is like such a cool thing. Like, you just keep inspiring and be you. - You should be. - Should be so proud. - You should be, yeah. So, I asked you after the fight, if you're gonna fight again, you said to you, promise your mom, you weren't gonna make a decision. And so, it just settled in. I mean, where, today, we're here, it's Friday. The fight was just Sunday, so it was five days ago. So now, you're just like, fuck, you can, how do you not after that? I mean, you're the fucking champ. It would be great to go out like that. It would be an amazing cap, but also great to have at least one more. - Yeah. - We'll see. - If you'd like to watch Chaos. - It's the highest level control chaos. - Of course. - It'll never be that chaos again, 'cause it'll never be like-- - It's hard to understand how deep-- - Tie your jet flyovers. - It's hard to understand how dangerous this game is if you don't do it, right? And so-- - It's impossible. - Yeah. - So that'll be a huge, that's a huge fact. There's a lot of variables that I have to contemplate when it comes to that decision. - Do you have a timeline in your head? - I do know, so you can't remember a time I fought two times in six months in the UFC. I fought two times this year already in less than six months. And so I'm gonna take the rest of the year. I need my body to heal, then. I mean, I have what's the fucking diagnosis? I have a severe bone endema in the tip of my fibula that happened on Christmas. And I have been dealing with that since Christmas day. - So bone bleed, like a bruised bone? - Yeah, it's in the bone marrow of the tip of my fibula. Tip of my fibula clacked against my femur. And it caused a deep, deep bruise and I cannot get to heal because I went, you know, I was going through training camp. It really hurt after the paddy fight. When do you leave in? When do you leave in today? - Will you fly out of like six, 30? - It's three o'clock. I got one of them to see if I can get you into waist well. Let me text a break 'em and see if they can jab some fucking stem cells in there before you leave. - I mean, I've gone to Vegas. I've got stem cells multiple times. - They got PRP, pretty special place. - PRP put me on crutches. It was crazy. And then I did a horizontal shot the Friday before I left. - Wow. - And that helped a lot. - Well, not training is really what it needs, right? And you've been doing any hyperbaric chamber stuff? - No. - That's huge. - I got like, you have no idea how against my process you guys would be. I mean, I think I got two. I probably had two massages this camp. (laughing) - That's amazing. - Well, it's really funny if you look at the difference between the two. I mean, Ilya Taporia, say YouTube channel as well, where it's fantastic, really goes into depth, but they're using all this high-tech, neural stimulation, headgear, and he's doing all these different things, and it's all right. - Did you see the video? It's got him doing that and then me taking a 420 dev. - Yeah, exactly, did you see our video? Where he had the dog chocker on his forehead, and every time he got straight, which his legs got flat, I hit the butt. - You scared? - And did he bend his legs again? - No, we, uh. - Come on, come on, come on, guys. - We're two balls at each other. - Yeah. - Trying to tap into those intuitive abilities. - Yeah, all right. Yeah, with your eyes closed. - But I mean, you're like- - You're funny. - I come from the fucking dirt. You know, my parents fucked up. They didn't put a golf club in my hand at four years all they threw me in the dirt. And, you know, I became comfortable with the uncomfortable. - That's a giant factor, though. Being comfortable with being uncomfortable is a huge asset. - Yeah. - It's such a vote. - It is, it is. - With everything in life, with everything in life. - I think wrestling is definitely, definitely has, is the biggest variable when it comes to my success. I mean, the mental, the mental side of it, like, nobody can, it's very similar to fighting in the fact that nobody can help you. You know, it is against you. All the blame is on you. All the success goes to you. And you can never use somebody else's, excuse, any team setting, I played football, I played baseball, soccer, swim team, swim teams are a little different. But, you know, there's always a justification for why you failed or why you lost. When it comes to those, and you could always point to somewhere else, or at least a piece. Even if it's one or two percent, somebody else has fault. Then you can justify it, you know, the lost. And, and wrestling, that's never the case. - Not only that, it's a combat sport that's acceptable in high school. Like, it's a combat sport that you take in junior high school, you take in high school, and kids learn. Like, there's, there's guys out there that are different. They're working harder than you, the more aggressive than you. They want it more than you, they put it more time than you. And that's a, that's a lesson. It's very valuable when a kid, 'cause kids, get delusion about what their abilities are, how special they are, who they are. When you get fucking flatlined by some dude, just fucking picks you up and slams you on your back and pins you. And you're like, and he can do it anytime he wants. And this is the reality of training with this guy, like over and over and over again. You're like, oh great, he lateral drops you in front of the whole class, oh great. Like, this is, this is reality. Now, you either gonna get better, or this is gonna keep happening to you over and over and over again. And the mental toughness that comes out of kids that grind it out and wrestling, and learn how to wrestle uncomfortable, learn how to cut weight at an early age. All that shit's terrible for you, but the mental aspect of it is fucking undeniable. Think about how many great wrestlers have become great MMA champions. - Absolutely. - It's the most important foundation. - Found great business people. Like they, I watched a study a long time ago, they said that the boxing and wrestling created the best employees because they count ability. - Yes. - So you know, and again, the cutting the weight, like you're responsible, like that's the, this is what I love about Justin is, what makes it so nice to train him is high level people like I've had the luck to be able to train some high level guys lately. And I don't have to deal with any shit. - Like you know, and if I hold myself accountable, then we don't have to have these deep conversations or get your feelings hurt that were just true to it. His accountability for everything is just, there's nothing like it. And I credit that to his parents. His parents are just such amazing people. And the way that they had raised him to hold the, 'cause he screwed up a lot as a kid, I told him if we were hanging out, we were younger, we got a lot of trouble. 'Cause he reminded me of myself super hyper, so like making super bad decisions, but getting punished, getting grounded, getting not being able to go out late at night, like strict parents in that, being able to understand that there is rules in life and you have to be accountable. If you screw up, you got to deal with the punishment. And that is, it comes from your parents in this. - I agree. I think my parents being such good people, so my mindset has always, since I was a kid, I have looked up. So the reason I take comments online and I read them, I've always looked up and given every single person I've ever interacted with, the benefit of the doubt of being good. And whether it's what they're saying, what they're doing, their actions, everybody's been my role model. I've never, never looked at myself as a role model. I've always looked at whether, no matter what, even strangers, like I trust that they're gonna, that they're good. And that's where I start my, that's where I start everywhere from. And so reading comments online, like I truly take into account what I'm reading. And I don't know why, 'cause I know it doesn't matter. A lot of the times, a lot of these, probably fucking 13, 14 year old kids. But in my mind, they're 50 year old men with experience. And I just try to use as much, and as much of the readily available information, comments, words, action as I can, from a place of, like I feel like a child, in a sense, when it comes to interacting with people. And I don't know why that's how I take it, or that's how I do it, but it makes everything, you know, a little bit better. And I'm not as disappointed as much. 'Cause like, once I learn that they're not that, but they're not good, and they can't help me, then I don't be like, oh, that's a bad person. I'm just like, okay, I'm not gonna have that experience again. - Well, that's a good perspective. It sounds like you use it, then. And that's, everyone's different. And if you can handle it, and you don't get mentally ill from reading comments, that's a rare, you're a rare person. - We had many conversations in the way that, - You were services, that's what my, I went to school for human service. I loved to help people. You have no idea how much joy it brings me to assist people, to make people's life better, to live someone's spirit. I mean, those, that is what makes me feel alive. And that comes through my faith, and through my parents, you know, my parents are such good people. They deserve so much more than most parents, because of their actions and their example that they show for me. And yeah, I'm just so grateful to be the person that I am, because, you know, it makes life easier. Life is easy. Life is so easy when you're not concerned about what people think, when you're not worried about things that you can't control. - But it's also easy if you're a good person. - It's easier. - It's easier. - But I couldn't be a good person without the example of my parents. You have no idea how good and naive my parents are. And when I say naive, it's in such a good way, because they haven't done the bad things that most of us have done. And I failed them. And the last time I ever did drugs, I woke up in an ambulance, and I'm pretty sure I died. And I was like, I will never fucking do that again. My parents do not deserve that. And that was probably 2016. - Wow. - And I was like, I will never touch that again. Ever. And that was, that's why I'm here. - Good for you, dude. That's awesome. And it's great that you have such an awesome relationship with your parents. And it really does seem like that attitude that you have is very freeing in a lot of ways. - It is. It really is. - Yeah. - Golf. Weed. - Trevor, let's talk about those gloves. What the fuck do we have to do to get your gloves into the USA? It doesn't make any sense that we're using inferior gloves. - Wait, I want, obviously, I want to talk about this. But the gloves I fought in this week were different. - They are? - They felt, it was a different. - They weren't different. - They were the same glove, the leather was different. It was a little bit thicker, I think. And so it was softer. And so every time I've ever fought, I've had the most excruciating pain in between my hands right here. And I didn't feel it at all this fight. - So it's like if you have like a thinner material going through, it's going to cut through this kind of little easier. So it was thicker. - Or tighter material. This was looser because it was thicker. It was weird. - So it was better. - Better. - Better for that feeling that all fighters get. - Better for comfortability. Yeah, like you guys have no idea how uncomfortable we are when we're with you. We like pulling on the glove of the pole to back. It's like getting a hand wrap too tight and you get those little things between it. - They're constantly pulling on the tongue here. - So you make it fit and it squeezes harder. - But this guy is a genius. He can fucking make anything. - So Hunter reached out to me three weeks ago, four weeks ago and said he wanted to ignite conversation again. So we'll see where that goes. But you know, from that first position that we were in, a lot of things happened in a great thing. I always told you it was going to be timing. Timing's everything. And they did the right thing and tried to make what we had spoke about. You know, we had NDA and we had a five year and they moved it to a two year. Took a lot of great notes and I'm very grateful to be a part of those 'cause they did go out there and use a lot of the ideas that I had. But they just couldn't do it to the level that I could do it. And I thought it was super cool that they were trying 'cause it was a problem that they don't really see and understand. So I think they're in the right mindset and you know them helping the athletes. I thought was a great, great thing to do. But during that time when I was going to talk to, I actually brought the gloves and it was when you were fighting on 300, we were out there and I had a new patent that I had been working on. So we can go opposite direction if they want to hone it. It's a separate patent from the patent that I had that goes in all of our products, the internal strapping. This was a new patent still with internal strapping but a more dialed in for it. Fight's good. club. And then we had those two options and then when we got there, Oli had told me that they're releasing a new club. And so we have, you know, two versions now, which is super cool. And yeah, I think it'll be great. Here's the conversation, though, like, what are you trying to fix? iPokes. Okay. iPokes. That is not possible. You don't think it's possible to make less iPokes. You can make less. Absolutely. Less that you never stopped. Well, of course, you're not going to stop because the fingers are out. The issue is the athlete. The issue is the comfortability of the athlete and the performance of the athlete. That is where your ambition has to lie when it comes to making the glove better. Because the thing that gloves we're finding out are fucking terrible. You have no, they, it's hard to make a fist. You have to use your entire muscle of your arm to make a fist. And so by the time we get to the fight, this is already exhausted. Exhausted. And then the pressure in between your fingers is like something you can't replicate. Let me ask you this. Do you think it's possible to make something that's like a mitten? Something that covers over the tips of the fingers. You would have fucking 80% less iPokes. I do think you could do that in time. I don't think that's the change is hard for everybody, Joe. That's a huge change for grapplers and things like that. But you're a grappler. So you're a grappler. Most people are going to say, well, that's going to affect this or my certain lock or I think how they try it. But again, it's, it's, it's, it would enhance it. The only, the, the problem would be like rear-daked jokes, like getting the hand behind that, you have more thickness. Like it's regular gloves or a problem already. But is it more of a problem just to have the fingers covered with the regular glove? I think it's the same. It might actually, it might actually even slip in better. But the thing is, it's like covering the tips with like a mitten, like those old school ever last backlogs. I just, I think it's a different sport now. But why? You can still clinch. You can still do everything. That's what I'm talking about, you take guys to the ground. But you're like the same. You can still grapple. This is telling me so much right now. Like, and if you take that away from me, yeah. Right. Like that is a, that's a huge factor in when it comes to intuitive abilities. Okay. Like explain it to me. Like, what are you feeling with your fingertips? Do you think it would be missing? Well, it's not the fingertips. When it's my hand, like he moves away, he moves any direction, like I can make that read. Now his father now is there. Right. And I think if you're going to take touch away from us, that would deter our intuitive abilities. Hmm. I wonder, I wonder how much it was. But I also think they have to understand where as a fighter for me, it's like when I am relaxed, when I'm relaxed. And if my hand can be in this position, when I'm relaxed, then I'm okay. Then there's not going to be as many eye pokes. But when I relax and it goes like this, like, and now I have to force your hand. I have to do this. I'm natural. You're never going to take the human reaction and instinct away to protect yourself. And the instinct to protect yourself is no. Right. That is the instinct, natural, it's intuitive. And it has to be that because you're trying to get your chin tucked behind your shoulders so that you don't get hit. But the uncomfortability and like the strenuous effort it takes to make a fist is fucking stupid. Yeah. This stupid. And this is the difference between your gloves and the current UFC gloves. My gloves are made of your hands. My gloves are one of those things that it promotes a natural hand position, a better grip, a better fist position where I'm not when I squeeze my fist and I have the wrap on it doesn't pull my hand up like this. And when you see guys touch gloves, they're usually like this, not like this. And it's the lining the bones up for, you know, again, they said that the last gloves were causing less knockouts, our gloves were going to cause more knockouts because of better hand position, better grip strength on being able to have holds. Like if I'm holding someone's forearm protection for your hands, that's a broken hand. And internal strapping. Like that is a huge thing. Like my goal at a certain point would have to have where you can't have hand wraps on it. Like if you have a glove that's actually protecting your hand, but you have the gloves on that now it's equal 100% because if you got one person that adds more, more padding, more less padding or double layers tape, like there's many different things that you can do. And that to me, it's like, if I, if one fighter has tape wrapping their hands and the other one has house wrapping the hands, they're wrapping differently, which one's better for breaks, which one's better for punching like right? Like so having that, that would be really cool. And that's, that's the difference with like like our gloves. I'll show you that. I've never broke my hand when he's ever taped my hands. Like his tape job is, I can't wait to show it off to the commission every single time. I'm like, look at that. Tell me you see no better one than that tonight. And every time they're like, I don't think so. You got gloves? Of course you do. Of course you do. They're my favorite by far. And that lays in general at home. If you're just listening, the difference is you traverse gloves and everybody else's gloves. One of the big differences is that you can see if you're looking at it or not. Let's see how they're curved folks. Like a hand. The regular gloves from the UFC are not. They're straight just like this. So these gloves promote a natural punching position. Look, without even putting them on, they're already in that position. And then when you put them on, they're damn near perfect. That padding is amazing. They're fantastic to hit the bag with. They're just fucking awesome. And they and more importantly, look what they promote. So my hand is totally dead, relax. And it promotes a closed fist position. The cool part too is this is what I was talking about. So this is a he's doing the internal strapping right now. This strap is coming from over here. So that's going to pull this. As you notice, we got pat on the side. So there's no like the all the other gloves. The pack. Right, right, right. Coming down on a single knuckle. But again, this strap is going to really seal you in. Oh, yeah. Oh, so these are better than the last ones you brought here. Oh, this is fucking fantastic. I've been dialing in finding the right product. Oh, my God. You don't even need hand wraps. Well, you had told me before that when you hit the bag with his gloves, his bag gloves and I haven't used it. I haven't grabbed my hands since 2015. Piper doesn't fight with hand wraps on, which is crazy. And it gives you a point if we have the right protection. It's awesome. This is so superior to the UFC gloves. I mean, the fact that this isn't being used by the UFC right now is fucking great. We're going to get it done. I hold it. Hey, and you know what? I've been trying so hard. I stepped away from like the business part. I'm the visionary now. So I got right people that know how to make deals. So good. It's, it's right. And the UFC is going to be happy. We were ready. Yeah. Dude, I'm in there like dude. You know, I don't do that. That was me versus to be a full responsibility. Oh, I believe it. That I didn't know that you could do deals all these different ways. You know, would they say what they wanted to do? I was like, yeah, that's not how it feels so good. It's so better. It's so better. It's just much better. It's like, where do you put it? I want to hit something. Well, this is one of the things that I love about you is that you're so fucking creative with stuff and you're constantly trying to find a piece of equipment I have trained with for the last. So we see so many. So this is your training bag, your training. Yeah, that's what I'm training. Yep. Nice. I hit pads in that never never wore hand wraps once. That's fantastic. Yeah. How do you open your hand to go straight out? Mm-hmm. And then the pointer knuckle protecting that pointer knuckle is so big. Yeah. That's it, right? Yeah. Oh, it's so nice. That you would open it. You can still grip, right? You can still grip, but your fingers wrap things. It's hard to choke. And the door knocking knuckles. This is what I am with those. I bet you do. You got to go palm to palm. Right. But still it's just those are your fantastic. Oh, thank you. And then I got you another pair of X factors to this. Yeah. You got big hands. I remember I give you the sixties. You're like, bro, please, I get to work for me. Yeah, I got big hands for a little dude unusual. Yeah, we'll get it done. But I mean, anytime you want to. I'm so happy. I'm so happy going to get it done because I pushed for it so many times. I brought it up to Dane. I brought it up to everybody. I was like, listen, what the fuck are we doing? You guys spent a million billion dollars trying to make these new gloves. You got rid of them in three months. That's because I know this could sound bad. That's because they've never thought about the fighter, but they tried. They tried. They tried. They tried. They didn't fucking try. They did. They do. They do. You know how much money. I'm not going to tell you how much money they put it. They put it. They did. To do what? To give you the same exact fucking problem. They thought they were making a bet. They hired people that people don't know what they're trying to do. They hired a company that works on football. No, they changed in their glove. But they don't know. They they took the ideas. At least they tried. They did. I will give them 100% credit. They did try. But I remember seeing the gloves when they tried and going. These suck. These are not as good. I'm like right away. I was still uncomfortable. I don't hurt my hands. I said to him, right away, why don't you just get Trevor's gloves? What the fuck are we doing? No, these are good. These are good. The best gloves exist. They're already made. There's only a few people out there that are willing to really get creative and redesign and engineer gloves. And when someone does it to the extent that you've done it, like God. So Joe, when you think about that, that's where I think I fit in well with this because I want to evolve with the company. And if we change one thing, like my first thing I want to do is help a performance. I don't want someone to hurt their hand. We're all sudden I hurt my hand on the top of your head. And I just left handed now. And everybody just, you know, they're just no pay-per-view now. But I pay to watch these fights. And now the guy that I wanted to see fight can't continue because he hurt his hand. Right. So we fix that problem. We fix longer, better grip strength for the the grapplers who are going to need it to have risk control when throwing shots. I want to help athletes perform And as we go, let's slowly develop and test with the athletes and find out what, because it's about the athlete. It's what works for them. And when we can get gloves on people and try something like you were talking about, that will take time. You have to train in and go, "Oh, I'll actually like this better and this is pros and cons. There's pros and cons to everything." Right. So it would take time. And that's where I'm passionate about is let's find a problem and let me think through solving it. Well, I need to know what that problem is. Here, and we should send everybody to your website, is it Onyx. Yeah. Oh, and x sports. Onyx.com. Yep. A lot of people spell it with their wives. Best gloves. The best shin pads. Thank you. You have the best equipment. It's fucking phenomenal. There it is right there. That's the website. Onyx. Sports. It's fucking fantastic stuff. I mean, it's really obvious that it's a high level coach who's developed all this shit. I mean, everything you make is top of the food chain. Everything. I'm sure. And I cannot break these gloves. I cannot break these gloves. I have to switch every like six months because I wear the phone out so much so I don't ever want to hurt my-- But you got two or three sessions of training every day. Yeah. For a typical person, these gloves are going to last well over-- Corey had his shin guards for four years. That's my shoe guard for like three years. And when you think about the amount of damage that that three years entails, that's pretty incredible for pieces of leather and foam. Yeah. Soaked with sweat. Everything's getting broken down and moisturized and then drying out again. Correct. Hey, that's the-- That are bags that we're up there. Dude, we got connectors for the shin guards and the knee pads on the outside. So all your equipment's on the outside of the bag to dry. Oh. Oh. That's really cool too. So just trying to rethink how things work. So-- That's what I love about the way you approach things. You're always like fixing the problems. I can't stand. And we're not even working on kickboxing and someone's kicking, and it's because they're fucking gear. That was the worst thing about fixing my nose. Dude, fucking smellin' people. Oh, my god. Dude, you know how the gym is? Especially with these, right? Yeah. Dude, you get that all broke. Dude, you don't watch the keys. Those guys over there. That's a real problem. It's a real problem. And those are the ones that always give you fucking coody still. Dude. Right? So nasty. Yeah, it's nasty. Listen, Justin, I just want-- I'm so glad you're not going to fight till the end of the year. And for whenever. Just enjoy that. Because that was a fucking masterpiece. It was beautiful to be there. And as I-- I felt so-- American. I felt so-- It's so hard to represent this country because we're such a melting pot. Yes. And I think I have done it. I think I achieved that. And so I'm very, very proud of that. Dude, you did it in spades. I mean, you did it in five stars. It was fucking phenomenal. It was one of the greatest events that any sporting event has ever put on. I mean, maybe the greatest sporting event in the history of the world. I said it before. It's going to be like some miracle on my shit. It was, man. I know. It really was. I knew I had the opportunity to do something special. You did it. And then here, you come town. [LAUGHS] Yeah, I want to send a family. It was a dad. You had a ball. That was so cool. So awesome. Look how cool that is. Yeah, so cool. That is so amazing. That's so fucking amazing. It was an amazing night, too. That was so happy. I'm so happy I was there to see it live. It was a real honor. I was honestly really nervous, Joe. I was like, dude, there's just, again, being around everybody and something could happen. The drones that came, you know, that they stopped. Like, again, I wasn't knowing what to expect and then tell after the fight, because again, we couldn't take it. It was a beautiful thing. And Justin-- I was like, fuck it. If I could take it out in the middle of the cage. How fucking legendary would that be? I said to Trump. I go, I hope I don't die in a tear. I said to Trump, I hope I don't die in a tear. So that guy goes, we've got to go somehow. That's right. Let me help. I will remember it for the rest of it. He turned me in there. Oh, pass. Climb me up, boys. Better the way it went. The way it went. That's the way it went. Way better. Way better. Well, hey, brother, thank you for coming here. Yes, sir. Congratulations. Masterpiece. Yes. That's all I want to do. I want to go hunting. I just got a-- I'm going to shoot an elephant. I saw a nut for a cell phone. On the Go Hunt website, you went anelo upon three. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Do you see it? Almost in your shot? Oh, there it is. Check it out. Check it out. We fucking missed our ass off. We were in there. It was windy. These things do not stop moving. They could see us forever. And they just kept going. And we were on shoot. We couldn't get prone. So we had to, you know, you're-- Every hunt, you're like, I'm going to have a prone position. I'm going to shoot from-- We could not get in a prone position. So we're on shooting sticks. Trying to manipulate the sticks and take shots. Oh, yeah. And-- We were not ready. That's a prehistoric animal. So Luke misses from 140 yards. Dude, the story was so much better for Luke without that. 1093 yards. Crazy. It hits it in the head, drops it. And we're just like, what the fuck, Luke? How? How do you hit that shot? And it's a hundred-- This is-- Yeah, look at this. Wow, that's crazy. 1092. Was he shooting for the head? No. I don't even know if he hit it. I mean, it was like a neck. Yeah, yeah. It was like a neck. It was, well, a thousand yards here. No, exactly. We're just trying to hit the center of the fucking target. And these crazy prairies, too, the kind of wind drifter deal. And they don't-- They can see from miles. They evolved to get away from cheetahs. They used to be North American cheetahs. And so North American-- This is all before the Younger Dryas impact. So it was like, when somewhere around 11,800 years ago, 65% of all North American mammals went extinct. And there was American lion that was bigger than the African lion. And then there was a cheetah. And these fuckers, these guys evolved to get away from cheetahs. So they can run like 55 miles an hour. For every eight-- That's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy. When you look at them, they look prehistoric. The eyeballs are like way out here. It's crazy how good a decoy works with them though. Oh, horses, too. Guys walk right up on them on horses. Yeah. Get a mook out. I don't think there's walk right behind that. Walk right behind them. And then you get-- That's how archery hunters do it a lot. Because you have to get a lot. It's very tough to sneak up on them. So smart. Do you ever bow on? Do you ever bow on? No. No, what do you want to learn? You would love it. You would fall in love with it. Did you just like bow? I have a bow. I just haven't hunted. I shot an elk and did not recover it. And I told myself that I will never go archery hunting unless I have a time and effort to be 100% ready to make that shot. And so right now it's just rifle. Well, rifle is always going to be the most effective way. It's still an awesome way. Who's Whitetail in Arizona is my favorite hunt? Oh, really? I'll be going now with me when he's in. That's a fun hunt. Those are tiny little guys. A little great goats. I grew up there. So my buddies, their whole life have looked. We could go out there. We wouldn't find shit. Right. They're fucking everywhere. Oh, they're hard to spot. Yeah, they're on the great goats. Yeah. And my buddies can find them. And it's such a fun hunt. Yeah, it's a great hunt. Well, Arizona is a great hunting state, too. Yeah, really is. That's elk in the country. Yep. Yeah. Again, congratulations. Absolutely. Masterpiece Sunday night. One for history. Maybe the greatest event in the history of the sport. I mean, come on Joe Rogan again, baby. Anytime. Let's do it one more time. Let's do it one more time when you do decide to wrap it. Thank you, guys. Thank you. And on exports.com. Get the best clubs in the world. Thank you. All right. Bye. [MUSIC PLAYING]