JRE MMA Show #179 with Josh Thompson & "Big" John McCarthy

[MUSIC] >> The Joe, Rogan, experience. >> Shroom by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. [MUSIC] >> Gentleman alive, what's happening? >> Good to see you. >> What is on my mind? >> I enjoy your show, your show's excellent. >> You guys have a really good MMA show. >> It's really soft. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, I kind of blew that. >> Yeah, we can talk about that. >> I got to talk to you. >> You guys are not doing it anymore? I stepped back away when I started referring again. >> God damn it, you got to go back to doing it, you guys are great. You guys are great combinations. >> So what we did is we started doing McCarthy Mondays. Because when he went back to referee and he's not a lot of talk about promotions, not a lot of talk about fighters and what's wrong. And in the things that possibly can make some changes in. So we just started McCarthy Monday where we just talk about the Joe Schilling situation. That's something we could talk about, right? So I just created a show for him to just only do one Monday? >> He created. >> Nice. >> Well, it's his, it was. >> It was. >> It was. >> It was. >> I was just trying to keep fine ways to keep them involved. >> I love that you're referring again. We need great referees, but I wish you were out there doing both. It doesn't make sense to me that you can't do both. It's not like you're not going to be a great referee while also still being able to comment objectively about promotions. It's important. >> Yeah. >> It is important. >> Transparency, where's ever the problem with that? >> Exactly. >> But you get these people that, oh no, because you might say something that is going to create a problem. It's not a problem if it's the truth. >> It's ridiculous. I mean, if that was the case, how come I can do it as a commentator? How come all these guys can do it? >> Because you're the best. >> Yeah, but I mean, everybody should be able to have a voice, especially referees. If something happens and you're a referee, and you could say, here's my perspective. This is why I did what I did. And you have it on a podcast on a regular basis. That's a benefit to everybody. >> So that is what I'm trying to create with it? >> I believe you're right. >> But what you run into is you run into some issues where the referee says too much and then people come back at him and then the commissions have to answer for it and the fighters dig on them. >> Good. >> And then people are talking. >> Yeah. >> That's how shit gets solved. That's how you don't have like one hand downed, it's not downed opponent anymore. Why? >> They can complain forever, 12 to 6 elbows, they're legit again, except in New Jersey. >> Yeah. >> Did you see the problem? >> Yeah. >> Look out to your problem. >> Well, we were in New Jersey, I was like, you've got to be kidding me. >> Yeah. >> How the fuck do you guys not have 12 to 6? >> You can't make it any more complicated for the referees and the fighters. >> Right, so dumb. It's the dumbest fucking thing I've ever done. >> And it's so unfair to the fighters themselves because when we went, look, I was part, I wrote those things out and they were passed by the ABC, but we gave six months. >> Six months because you got to give the fighters time to train to make sure that they get it right. Okay. And so it's put it in, it works great. And now you expect them to go back to one location. >> And remember in the middle of a fight. >> Exactly. One location and now they're going to automatically go back to the old rules. It's like, do you realize what you're doing to them? >> It doesn't make any sense either, the old rules are fucking stupid. >> Yeah. >> We all agree. >> Yeah. >> Everybody, no one was like, no, no, no, 12 to 6 elbows are too dangerous. >> No. >> Oh yes there was. >> Was there people? >> Oh yeah, you're not. >> That broadcast partner. >> Shut the fuck up. >> Which one? >> Dan Cormier. >> No. >> I swear to God. >> He says some crazy shit. >> Damn it. >> What's up man? >> DCI love you. >> I love it. >> I love it. >> DCI. >> DCI 12 to 6 elbows in a year. >> I think that rule should. >> Absolutely. >> That's dangerous. >> I swear. >> If we're going to ban anything and I don't think we should ban anything. But if we're going to ban anything, side kicks to the knees. >> See? That right there. >> Right? >> I don't think we should. But I'm saying if we should, there's an argument that you're going to blow out of guys' knees. >> Yeah, remember? >> His career will be the same. >> Then we should absolutely ban kicks to the head and knees to the head and we should ban. >> Yes. >> Because I swear to the blowout knee or the blowout brain. >> I'm a green one. >> That is the point. >> I don't think we should ban anything. >> There you go. >> There's one thing that does bother me like the Cleal Roundtree, Modesto's Bacauskas. Remember with knee went sideways. >> Yeah. >> He's fucked for a year. >> Yeah. >> At least. >> It's not forever. >> It's the difference between that and we'll say, you know, Eson Barbosa. >> Terry Adam. >> Terry Adam. >> Yeah. >> And that kick to the head. You don't think that that was more than a year? >> Terry Adam. >> You know it was. >> Really was never the same. >> Exactly. >> That's my point. >> Oh, yeah. I mean, that was like getting hit by a meteor. >> Oh. >> That was just crazy. >> I mean, it was absolutely perfectly executed. Beautiful technique that it absolutely altered. >> By the way, the first wheel kick KO in the U.S. >> Absolutely it was. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But you look and you go, there are those fights and we say it all the time. And you know, as a referee, as a fighter, you know, with him. >> Period is right here. >> We go and watch this thing. >> Oh. >> I mean, just. >> That one was just insane. >> But you, the fighters themselves, they get paid to get damaged. I hate to say that, but it's the truth. That's part of their pay is they go in and they're going to accept some damage. But you don't want them to have unnecessary damage. >> Right. >> But you think we go rising rules? Because there's something to be said for that. >> I do, look at it. I've advocated for knees on the ground for a long time. >> It's never going to happen. >> My position is it's better in a ring because you can avoid them a little bit if you're mobile. Right. If you're still conscious and you have defensive capability, you can move around knees and kicks. >> Yeah. >> When the cage happens and you're butted up and someone stomps you, that's a totally different. >> First off, the stop I don't ever agree with. And the reason why is this, name me the fight that you saw that a stop was an effective technique when the fighter was not already seriously hurt. Doesn't happen. >> Sakurabi. >> Sakurabi used to do it all the time after he hurt people. Every time he tried to do it when they weren't hurt, they just moved and he was Mongolian stomping on nothing. >> Go ahead. Take a look at him. >> Yeah, I'd have to go back and watch. >> Yeah, there was a minnowah in Phil Baroney. He did that a couple of times with him when minnowah couldn't get the takedown because I was there cornering him for that fight. >> Yeah. >> There was that fight, then there was, and then Shogun and Ninja, remember when they used to do the stop? >> No, Shogun and Ninja and Shogun and the brothers together. Those guys were phenomenal at them. >> And people that only saw Shogun and pride missed it. >> Oh yeah. >> You missed it. >> Excuse me, under UFC. >> Fight against and pride. >> Quentin Rampage, Jackson. >> Yeah. >> Was, I mean, because a lot of people didn't, you know, going into that fight, you know, that's Rampage. You know, this guy's, you know, he absolutely just annihilated Rampage in that fight. And it was like, oh my God, he's way better than I ever gave him credit for before that fight. That fight was, that was a coming out party for Shogun. >> Yeah, he was a lethal striker. >> Oh, lethal striker. >> And all those keratiba guys were so hyper aggressive. >> Yeah, his brother was just as nasty. >> Yeah. >> He started fighting big guys. >> Yeah, that's the problem. >> Did he fight Alexander? Who did he fight? He fought some heavyweight, right? >> Yeah, and he got, he fought quite a few. >> He fought quite a few crushed. >> Yeah. >> But he fought one guy where it was like, what is this? Why is he fighting this guy? >> Yeah. >> I can't remember who it was. >> Was it a million? >> I was saying Alexander a million. >> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. >> Yeah. >> Think it was that. >> I think it was. >> And it was like, one of those fights like, no, no, no, no, no. This is a real fucking heavyweight. >> Oh. >> And with nasty striking. >> Yeah. >> You know, I mean, he was fucking nasty. >> He was good. >> Yeah. >> He had some smooth striking. >> People don't give the millennials as a whole. Alexander was a little bit off, a little bit crazy. >> Oh, a lot. >> Okay. >> I just said, I just said a little bit on his back. Like, the fucking death holding a baby tattoo on his back. That's a choice. >> That's a fucking success. >> You can fight Alexander, a million ankles, back tattoo. >> You look at that, you like, what? >> But it's going on in your mind. >> And then you like, this should be on my back. >> But permanently. >> But that's the brother. >> And then you have Fadeor. >> As the guy who was even better. >> Yeah. >> And look, Fadeor is, he was such a good guy. >> Look at that fucking tattoo. >> There you go. >> What does it say in Russian, Jamie? >> Jesus. >> That is the craziest thing. The baby's got a fucking sword and a crown. >> Oh, yeah. >> And then death is like, yes, let's kill it. >> Yes, let's kill everyone. >> Death is right there. >> Yeah. >> It's not even a good drawing. It's like that's some Russian prison. >> That's right. >> That's some Russian prison. >> 100%. >> He's 100% committed. >> That's a ballpoint pen and a fucking sewing needle. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> They did that in a Russian prison. >> That's 100%. >> You're in a Nash. >> Oh, bro. >> But that's a lot of time. God is with us. Are you sure? >> Are you sure? >> Based on that. >> He's over it. >> I think you got his brother's brother has no tattoo. >> No tattoo. >> Yeah, he's fine. >> It's a small little wooden cross on his chest. >> I know, right? >> He's so stowa. >> He's awesome. >> Alexander, a million-inco James Thompson fight. James Thompson was like animal, built like fucking Greek God. >> Yeah. >> Jack comes out raw. >> That like terrifying fucking huge match. >> The best is the look on Alexander's face throughout. >> Yeah. >> I'm going through fall asleep. >> Just completely stowa. >> Look at Thompson so worked up. >> Look at his chest. >> That's all right. >> He's shaking. Look at him. He's ready to fucking stop. >> He's just stepped out of a bar. >> No flexing at all this. >> Doesn't even let's just hand up all the way. >> Dude, hey everybody. >> Got the belly hanging out a little bit. >> Yeah. >> It's awesome. >> Look how chilly it looks. >> Yeah, I'm going to get it fun. >> Look how chill Fator looks too. Like no worries at all. >> No. >> Look at James. He's so fucking hyped up. >> Alexander's like-- >> I need to touch him. (laughs) - It's like I'll have Swiss cheese. and mustard. He's ordered a sandwich. As vicious. He rocks him, too, right off the bat. James comes charge and add him, put some down, but he wasn't hurt. And there's like he fell down, boaping that hurt, that hurt, James, that hurt. Once he starts connecting, he had that Soviet style fluid boxing that just went punches. Look, I'll tell you what, I worked out with Fagor and it was, it was a great moment in my life if you're going to sit there and say, well, if you're going to get your ass kicked, it's a great moment. But the one thing I always thought, you know, before you, you know, watching him, repping him, I go, he's got to have some kind of, you know, like just tarred strength, you know. Right, right. No, he's fast. And I mean, super fat. When he explodes in his hands are down kind of, so it's hard to see when the shots are coming. And everything he does, he just explodes into. And you go, oh, I get it. Because you got to work really hard to try to stay up with his speed when he all sort of is exploding. And then it's like, oh, he doesn't get tired. And you're starting to get tired because you're having to match that RPM that he's at. Right. And he's on a big, heavyweight. No, he's not. Which I think is a real benefit. I think it is. I didn't tell you're frightened guy like in Gano. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, there's a problem there. Oh, yeah. Because I got to be patient. Yeah. Two 65 naturally nuclear power. And Gano hits you anywhere in the head. It's a problem. You're in trouble. Yeah. It's a real problem. Yeah. He had Philip, you know, lens hit him on the basic almost. So you wouldn't even say the temple. Hit him almost to the top of the head. And look, he was out. He means not be able to control his body. That guy's got the ability to hurt, you know, when he fought Kane, you know, take a look. Yeah. It wasn't a great. Right. But I heard him. Yeah. He's got crazy power. Yeah. That's just nuts. But Fedor was a different thing because Fedor had that, like, that Russian style of movement that you see like Demetri Beval has with a real relaxed. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And the footwork and a little bit of a bounce. He's got that little bit of a bounce in out. Just sitting there and wait. And he waits for your motion to come where he wants it to be. And then he changes that distance and just crash. Fedor did a really good job of coming around your guard as well. So it wasn't just a big straight right all the time. You know, Rich Franklin used to do that as well. He'd come around your guard. He put your hands up and Fedor had a, he did a great job with that coming around and land on the big overhand right and then he'd come up or cut, then he'd take you down or hip toss, you body lock you. And if you took him to the ground off his back, he's got one of the quickest fucking arm bars in the game, which is nuts. He's transition. He's like a little kid. He's all stretched out. He looks like a little kid. He goes. He's on the ground completely. He was great everywhere. And you know, you know, you, you think about him as being this overall picture of like one of the greatest, if not the greatest MMA fighter of all time. But people forget like he stand up was so good that the crookop fight was mostly stand up. He wrote, he wrote the blueprint on how to beat crookop. Exactly. You got to be him to do it though. The thing, I mean, he, first of all, his, his stand up has always been real dangerous on, but also it's like the way he was able to check that left kick. He was doing a lot of like lifting the knee up and catching it up high. Yeah. How many people had you seen that would back crookop onto his back foot and march forward? Crook. Exactly. That was the difference is when you looked at it, he, he told himself, nope, I'm going to, I'm going to make you go backwards. And it took a lot of what crookop did in it. It just nullified a lot of it was a lot of it was a threat of the grappling. Oh, yeah. That was a great part of it. That's part of that. Because then Fedor didn't have to worry about if he, if he did sup and fall, if he threw, if he threw a big shot and he got cut from underneath if he did follow the ground, it's crookop was going to fall into the ground. He could just hop back up. Yeah. So there was that. And then on top of it too, when you thought I'm in the foam booth, you know, though, you're not worried as much of that head kick to get there if I'm within, you know, inches of view that left kick was. Yeah. There's this picture of heat herring where the shin is like halfway into heath ribs. Oh, it's kind of exactly right. You know, that picture is crazy. You see crookop's shin is just so deep, you just feel your own river. I've seen the Van Raleigh ones because Van Raleigh has his ribs were just pulled up from there. Look at that picture. Bro, that's crazy. Do you know how much that hurts? I mean, that is actually I did. I don't know. That's the part where you look at people and you go, you know, do you realize what you know, yeah, that would hurt. No, no, no, your entire body is going. I quit. He had such explosive power. And you, to me, he was like the first guy to figure out how to transition from kickboxing to MMA. Yeah. Because he did it with explosiveness. But more. You got to give it. That's true. More history. I got to go. That's true. That's true. Maurice. Maurice was the first, but crookop was in that same era and he was doing it in pride. Yeah. And all those other guys like Ernesto, who's it didn't really work out for them when they like he only fought Bob sap in a kickboxing fight. But even when they were fighting like bigger create like crookop fucked up Bob sap. Like same era. Yeah. Same time. Yeah. Exactly. Same time period. Same. Same. Same was that. Oh, it's the same. You know, whereas like guys like Peter Erritz, that wouldn't translate as well in MMA elite strikers. But they wanted to get into a rhythm. They wanted to like get into situations and exchanges. And with crookop, it was as these one shops were coming at you like nuclear missiles. And it was a different threat. It was a completely different threat than a lot of other guys because he was so explosive. Yeah. Yeah. He's crookop was what a great guy. Oh, he's awesome. As far as you know, and but his left kick has to be the best left kick there's ever been ever in the sport of MMA. Yeah. I don't think you could even think of a second place. Well, who's got a better left kick than crookop? Maybe Edson Barbosa switched. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So accurate. In his prime, he would kick and I'd be like, it's something wrong with my eyes. It was so fast. It was just like 120 pound down. Yeah. It was so fast. Yeah. They called me a couple of times to fight him. And I was like rank number three. He was like just, I think he hit number 15. I'm like, no. Give me a higher rank. Sorry. It's not that it's not that I did. It's not that I wouldn't find it. It's give me a higher rank. Make it make sense. Yeah. Help me help me help. Help me to help you. It's this time in my life. Make it make sense. That when he came in though, you got to look at Barbosa. You know, he's been there a long time now when you think about it. Still going out. But when he came in, it was like, dude, this is a next level of stand-up ability with what this guy can do. Yeah. And it was like man. And oddly mostly kicks. Yeah. Because boxing wasn't threatening like his kicks were. No. It was not equal. No, it was mostly kicks. Right. No. Yeah. If he could have developed something along the Jose Aldo level of boxing, where the body came back at the top of the head and take down those kicks. I mean, Aldo's takedown defense is not probably the best. I think probably the best in the sport that we've seen. I mean, honestly, other than BJ in his prime. Yeah, right. With the one leg hop. He was prime was ridiculous. His balance was fucking insane. Yeah. But he had think he's the only guy that didn't get taken down by Marab. When Marab and him fought three crazy rounds, I think Marab went for like 90 fucking takedowns or something. And I don't think he took Marab. I don't think Marab took him down. Yeah. I think Marab mostly won that fight up against the cage, hitting him with punches, working for takedowns, cage damage. Extremely underestimated Jose Aldo's takedown defense. People. Yeah. It's the fun. You take a look and Aldo doesn't now. All of a sudden it's kind of like the Anderson still with it. All sudden it's like, you know, well, let's talk about the very best in the hundred forty five pound. And look at Alexander Volkanovsky's right there. He's phenomenal. I'm not saying don't forget what Jose Aldo did. Absolutely. I mean, through the WC end up being the UFC champion. All those fights, man, I'll tell you what, that guy was absolutely nuts as far as how good he was at one time. Well, I think it was also because he was an elite soccer player and the ability to like, give your watch a live soccer get a professional soccer match. You're like, Oh, Jesus. Like they don't get to slow down. They don't have a Lego. There's no halftime. There's no like big break for commercials. There's no bullshit. They just go. There's no timeout. Giant fucking legs. Yeah. They all have insane leg power because they're just sprinting all day long. And you go, oh, well, that would translate perfectly to MMA for kicking, for moving, for footwork. Think about all it's not just that, right? It's it's the stop and go stop and go like in a real fight. Right. I get a take down. I get to rest for a second. Then he postures back up and gets back to his feet. I got to go again. Sprits again. Get the take down and soccer. Same thing. You run hard down the line. Oh, ball gets turned back. Now you kind of jog back a little bit. Now the ball gets played to you. It's the stop and go of sprinting. Yeah. Just like a real fight. This episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time. So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra process kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist and trust me. I know I buy one. The farmer's dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human grade food. The farmer's dog makes fresh food for dogs and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier and isn't getting more time with our four-legged best friends something every dog owner wants. The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try the farmer's dog today and get 50% and off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan. This offers for new customers only. - Yeah, it's interesting. There's a bunch of different bases that if you come from them, they have a big advantage. It puts you in a big advantage in different sports. - Yeah, soccer and wrestling. - Yeah. - Those two things. The grinding of the wrestling and just the cardio fatigue and understanding that I can push through when I get tired, because there's nothing more satisfying in terms when you run down the line. The guy plays the ball into the corner and you gotta beat that defender there and then you cross it across and you're, it's that sprinting down there to beat him, but then also to the wrestling, knowing that you can break another human being. Like I need to break you mentally, grind on you and hang on you. Those two sports are huge for the sport of men. - And getting used to suffering dehydrated. Right? - Yeah, there's a big factor in that. - Yeah, the way cuts. - Getting used to suffering. - Yeah. But the way cuts and having to compete on the same day as way cuts is a big difference. And for people that have never done that before and don't know, it's fucking hard. Even 24 hours is hard. Weight cutting is the grossest thing in MMA. - It is. - They should figure out a way to stop it. - I totally, I don't know if you're gonna talk about one of the most dangerous things that you do with it. Like think about this, Joe. Every sport, soccer, football, baseball, basketball, they all have team chefs. They all have all these things. As far as we want our athletes to be as physically ready and have the right nutrition and all these things, what's the sports that we go and we starve our athletes and dehydrate them? (laughing) - 24 hours for it. - So it changed my life. - 24 hours before the most demanding, most dangerous sport in the world. - Yep. - But Joe, even if we did it the same day, fighters would still cut weight to try and make that weight. - They would still do that to themselves. - The question is, I wonder if there's a way to prevent that. Like the way to prevent that, I would say is everybody, here's your mandate. No one's getting out of shape anymore because we're gonna have random weigh-ins. So we're gonna just show up at your fucking gym. - You can't do it. - But could you, like, let's say you fight at 170. You cannot weigh more than 180. - See, here's the, you could do it. - Not any heaven day. I'll show up at your fucking house at 7 in the morning. Josh, get on the scale. 175, this is not good. - You could do it as a promotion. You can't do it as an industry within the sport. And the reason why I'm telling you saying that is, first off, you have all these fighters will say. They're all everywhere, okay, all over the world. And for an athletic commission, we'll say the state of California, state of Texas. They have to have that particular fighter licensed for them to say, we wanna weigh you. If they're not licensed in that state, on that year, they can't, they can sit there and go, no. - But if you got adopted by the UFC, I bet most of the organizations would adopt it, you know. - But again, that's the UFC as a promotion. - The UFC has the money to actually do that, but it's gonna cost them a lot of money and, you know, look at, I understand why the promotion doesn't want to lose money, which is way better. - I think guys are being way better commissioned. - They absolutely will. - I think we've seen, and it's exactly what you're talking about. - Because they stopped cutting as much weight. - You could sit there and, you know, the only way an athletic commission could kind of do it. And, but this is bad on promotions. Is an athletic commission could sit there and say, you're allowed to weigh no more than five pounds, more than that weigh in weight, okay? But here's your problems with it. First off, the promotion could lose fights. The promotion doesn't want to lose fights, okay? And the second part is, what's saying that the fighter themselves is not keeping themselves dehydrated to make that five pound, and now they're going in even more dehydrated into the fight, which could cause them more problems. - Well, they couldn't be dehydrated through their entire camp, and that's where you institute randoms. - That's why your randoms would work if the promotion was doing it. - Yeah, but they wouldn't have to. - But to do it sport-wide, it'd be almost impossible. - It would have to take a long time to figure out how to do it properly and not lose fights. 'Cause there's too many guys that fuck around. - Oh. - You know, there's too many guys that like, like how many times John Jones's not really trained? - Oh yeah. - You know, like the gust of some fight, the first one, they said he didn't really train. - 10 days. - Showed up a little bit here and there, didn't really train. So if there's a guy like that, what are you gonna not let him fight? Like, what are you gonna do? - Yeah, but then you want to. - You want to have it too much. - You also have guys like Michael Morales right now. - 170 pounders walking around like two weeks. - Like 110, two, 12, two, five, I mean, there's a few of those guys where I'm standing next to him, like Gregory Rodriguez. I'm like, how? - Yeah. - How? How are you ever 180 pounds? - How was, how, how was Alex 180 five pounds? I stand next to him and go, you gotta be shitting me. - Nuts. - Nuts. - It's unbelievable. - And at 180 five pounds, nuclear power, but I don't think he took a shot as well. - It didn't. There's no doubt about it. - Yeah. - You can go back and look at his fights. He got hurt by shots that were not as hard as the ones he's taken at 205. - Right. - Based upon. - Yeah. - It's that way cut. - It's the point of diminishing returns, right? - It's like there's a place where you just do it too much. And you know, you kind of love to see freaks. You love to see a guy like Alex weigh in at 180 five, you're like, good luck with that. You're good luck with his 226 pound fucking Amazon warrior that pretended to be 180 five for five minutes. - It's for five minutes. - But you take a look at him so surprised how he can make the weight. When you pass by him and you see how tall he is now big he is. And you see him with the face off with Cyril Garner and now you're like, how would this guy ever make 185? - He's 250 now. - Oh yeah. - Which is crazy. - I saw him last week and it's like 250 means, that's almost 70 pounds. - It's different from his UFC debut. (laughing) - The only case makes me believe that we're gonna see a better Alex is because he doesn't have to kill himself. - Yeah, but he also put on muscle. - Yeah. - And there's an issue with that. - Exactly. Again, diminishing returns. How much is that muscle gonna do? This is where you try to tell all fighters. And you know, it's, Joe, if you, when you were fighting in Taekwondo, did you care about the strong guy? Or did you care about the fast guy? - The difference is MMA with grappling. The difference is with weight, like if you get a big, heavy guy and he gets on top of you, all your speed is gone. - Absolutely. - It's gone within the first three or four minutes. - But the problem with being the bigger, stronger guy in the lighter weight class is you're never the faster guy. And so you've got to be able to mall that person to be effective. And it only lasts for a certain amount of time if you had to dehydrate yourself to that point. Where speed is always there, when someone has it to a point unless they get tired, and that speed is hard for you to handle. - But there's guys that were big for the weight class and had ridiculous speed. Like Conor McGregor's a perfect example though. Conor at 145 was fast as fuck. - Conor was absolutely dehydrated to the point of being a concentration camp victim. - Okay, look like death. - I mean, it was unbelievable. - However, once you got in there, he was fast as fuck. - Oh, I'm not saying, look, he used to lose some, at 145, he was, he looked like death. - He was killing himself. - I remember the weigh-ins, like interview him at weigh-ins, like this is crazy. - Scallers are, oh my god. - But then you see in the next day, they're all full. - I know, he looked good. - Look at fucking hands. - He looked good. - He was also, what was his age back then, 26, 27? - Right, right. - You can't do that now. - No, you can't do that now. - No, it gets to a certain point in time when you have to realize you're cutting too much weight and it's actually ruining your career. - But I think the evidence has been pretty clear when you see guys go up and wait after killing themselves for so long, if that's success. - A lot of guys had. - Look at Max. - Oh yeah, I was just about to bring him up. I just had Dustin Poirier on the podcast yesterday and we were just talking about how, he's like, look, Max, the first time he came up to 55, didn't put the weight on properly. Second time, put it on properly. He's like, significant difference in power, mobility, movement, and then we can be in a fight with Gagey. - Yeah, come on, man, that's, yeah. - That guy should have never went down to 45 again to fight Toppoir. It's too much loss. - Yeah. - What? - What do you point in? - Because we had that argument about that exact thing of he was, Josh was saying, look, he should never, he was a championship fight. He was getting a world title fight at 145, right? And I said, look, it's a world title fight. I understand why he's going back down. He's going, he's making a huge mistake. It should never take it. He should stay at 155. You know, work yourself into a title fight. And I go, I understand why he's taking it. It's a title fight. - That made him the number one contender. - He beat Josh and Gagey. - I understand why. - I understand why he took the fight. - So what? - Maybe he would have favored that fight with Ilya, 'cause Ilya is a smaller guy than Islam. 'Cause if you think about it, Islam, he fucking smothers everybody. - Yeah, he does. - And he is striking his dangerousest fight. Well, of course you know. - Yeah. (laughing) - A hundred thousand times. But it's like, that guy's, he's so fucking terrifying once he gets to hold you. Like he submits everybody. - He's a whole lot better in the standup than people give him credit for. - Oh, he is? - The standup is actually really good at that. - He hook kick Volkanovsky. I don't care if Volkanovsky took it on 11 days notice. He's still head kick. - He's got a sneaky left-head kick. - High kick. - It's nasty. - He fucks people up, standing up, and that's part of the problem. Is it like you get accustomed to thinking about this guy? - You're worried about the taker? - Yeah, and then all of a sudden, boom. - Yeah, my point was that there was no, he put the weight on properly. He looked fantastic against Josh and Gagey. And then he go back down there to fight Ilya. And I was like, it doesn't make sense. You're the number one guy in your body. - It is. You kill yourself to give it back down, and then he gets knocked out, which we had never seen before. - Well, that's what Jones Jr. too. - Right, remember when Roy Jones Jr. went up and fought Ruiz, and then he went all the way down to 75 and got knocked out by Tarver. - Yep. - It's like, I don't think your body wants to go back down again. He doesn't, you put on all that weight over like a year and lift and weight. And Max had a ridiculous strength, the conditioning program. He put real weight on. He looked very good at 55. - When Max fought Aldo the first time for the title, here. He weighed him. Obviously we didn't championship weight 145 the night of the fight Joe now. He was in street close But they put him on a scale 178 Word again 170 now. He's still he was still cloth What is he wearing rocks in his pockets? That's great. So let's do rock with quarters in his pockets. Let's right what he thought he don't let's let's just be real Charitable and say his clothes weigh 10 pounds exactly That's crazy you're looking at more than 20 pounds, but that's All the time the show that just happened in California at the end of it doing with that the MVP the one guy I Can't you know the 27 pound difference in weight at 170 pounds came in 27 197 who was it? I want to say his name was the guys right before a solidine. Yeah, Parnass. I can't free ma free Fremont starts with a Z. I want to say I can't I can't think of it, but 27 pounds. Well, obviously the biggest one was rumble Johnson Rumble Johnson was the craziest great way to 30 and make it all the way to but basically what Morales is doing right now MVP event on Netflix deal puzzle. There you go. Namo for zeal. Yeah, of course the highest weight gain 27.2 pounds. That's insane. That's insane. That's so much He got into cage at 198 for 170 pound fight I would love to get Morales on the scales like right before he fought Sean Brady Oh, yeah, excuse me Sean Brady. Yeah, Sean Brady is a Thick you know, he's not super tall, but he's thick. Oh, yeah, he has put together Morales made him look like a like a lightweight like using the wrong division. Yeah, I was trying to make sense of it watching it on TV I thought maybe it was the camera angle and then they shifted I was like no, he's still bigger than when he's further away It was further away still bigger. He's way bigger than him. Yeah, it was a that's a crazy situation where a guy can do that And it's like the prayer situation eighty five two one a guy can do that How long can you do it? That's you know, because you're basically killing your kidneys every time you do it You're just taking a little bit out of them. That was the problem with AJ, you know Yeah, like I used to coach in corner AJ early in his career when he's first came to the UFC and that was his problem He'd make weight sometimes he make it sometimes he would he missed weight a lot to the point where that affected Yeah, absolutely. God, that's fucking horrible. Yeah, that's fucking horrible again. You're leaving Small bits and pieces of yourself of course in that damn cage every time whenever even when you win he died I was like no there's a true science to cut away and he just he didn't have it down Like he he wrestled, you know, NCAA or he wrestled division two like he was a really good wrestler He knew how to make a weight, but then trying to kill himself to get to 70 every single time which he never had to be Which yeah, he never had to be out of me. He has massive power He did great at heavyweight every now he beat or lofts get heavyweight in the world series of five Long time, but was Jovsky was still super legit broke our Lovsky's job Not their Lovsky not stupid super legit now fucking guy wins bare knuckle heavyweight championship at like a hundred years old I thought it's smart There's a you take a look at under our Lovsky and people say whatever they want about his career is a mate since UFC 28 was his first show not okay when all the weeks went all the way into today's day basically and But he changed his style, you know our Lovsky was a big power puncher for a long time And then was getting hit with big shots and said you know what? I'm gonna be a volume guy and he was successful with it Yeah, and didn't take near as much damage. Yeah, he fought a lot more technical lots liquor. Yeah, didn't take big chances He's a lot of good guys - yes, beep Travis Brown. Oh, yeah, oh, that fight with Travis Brown. Amazing was a Fricking awesome fight awesome awesome fight. Yeah, look at here. He beat Rothwell He tore Rothwell up, which is a lot of people were super surprised by that. Oh, yeah, a lot of people thought, you know Rothwell's a tank of a man Yeah, and he's a fucking scary big puncher and he just looks hairy like a fucking bear. He's scary Rothwell's close to 400 pounds That's crazy. Is that real? Yeah, it's real. He's really that bitch that he's that big unbelievable But meanwhile he's the one getting busted up in this fight and it was because, you know, Alaskan was just fighting very clever Just so tough You watch this fight right now. They think that this fight gets stopped for that cut on his forehead That is not why he has a cut on his eye running up into his tear duct And that's why it guy was it wasn't that big of a cut But any time it goes to the tear duct. Oh right there's the doctor saying oh, no, it's over Yeah to touch on to touch on what John was saying though is it it really just comes down to how he changed his style of fighting He either fight you all the way in or all the way out He fought you in that phone booth so you couldn't get off big power shots to avoid being knocked out because he went through a phase where He was getting clipped a lot getting hooked in hurt. Yeah, so he made that adjustment. That's good on him and all those years in the game never Lost his enthusiasm. No, you know, he's a character. You gotta talk to me. He's fighting influencers at shows Have you a job that? Those fucking dumb kids. I write little magic around trying to get him. I was like what are you guys doing it? Are you crazy? Do you know who that is? The best part was that the the fimbler is your kid goes hey, you can fight my bodyguard Bodyguards in the background going. Uh-uh sure. Yeah, I'll do it That's a good idea if your bodyguard doesn't do who are loft skis you need to get a new bodyguard He's telling them that my bodyguard will fight them. I was like oh shit. Oh Jesus Christ. Did you guys watch the Rico Verhoeven Usic fight? Oh, yes. I watched the ending. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I thought I was a I Want to say robbery because I guess apparently Usic was up on the score cards two two to one that that's robbery That's the robbery. Yeah, that's the robbery if that's the case that's a robbery. He was up I guess I thought for first off Rico Verhoeven, you know, we know what he's been in kickboxing and he's been fantastic Greatest of all time. Greatest of all time. Yeah, and you can look back on certain people in your Ernesto who's how great he was Bada Hari was a badass. It's all of them were awesome, but Rico accomplished more than anybody. Absolutely He's been undefeated for like more than 10 years in kickboxing. That's nuts It is that's especially with the amount of rounds comparatively and stuff because you can have a bad round And it can really affect your fight just like MMA But this fight I really thought going in I go look Rico will do okay for the for the first couple rounds And then it's gonna start to get to him. No, I was shocked by it. He fought very clever and he didn't fight He didn't fight big. He actually created the problems of closing that distance Every time you look how close you get he kept on getting into the phone with and he would do work And it was causing Usic nothing but problems Also Rico is known for his discipline and his fitness. Yes, like he's a guy who always has tremendous conditioning And I think there's a lot of heavy weights that would be surprised at the work that this guy does and the pace that he could put on So a lot of people like oh, he's gonna get tired. He only fights three-minute rounds honestly. I was thinking It gets past five rounds. I'm wondering how he's gonna be able to hold that pace. The guy's such a cardio fiend And he's always shredded and it's just he's so used to combat too that like getting in there Just fighting Usic. It's not a big deal. That right hand right there was I mean beautiful Bro, he was winning eight to two in my eyes. Okay. I thought he was winning eight to two going into the eleventh round when the fight was stopped Now the fight shouldn't have been stopped the way it was stopped, but also That wasn't eight seconds after the knockdown. So after he gets knocked down He doesn't have his mouthpiece. So then they have to go over the corner. They rinse off. That's a mistake right there Yeah, the whole thing's a mistake. It takes like 30 seconds And then the referee stops it when he's still standing moving around look If there's one one of the things that changed in boxing since I like I referee boxing now So here it is right here. This is the end look. We could watch it real quick So this is the look at all this time. So he's up and he goes over this is a mistake right long bring over to his court Hey, come on over. I'm going to watch the person happens and this is what we'll talk about. Oh, oh, it dropped That's on purpose of entering that on purpose. Of course. I would any second counts But then look at this. So he swarms him with some punches, but Rico's moving He's covering up. He's moving. I mean, what is he supposed to do? Yeah, what is he supposed to do? That's a bad stoppage I agree if you're gonna stop it because you felt like the first knockdown was too much Why would you let him rinse a glove off and he didn't take significant damage after that? That's a bad stop No, well, and it's also the end of the round one second. It's the end of round. It's literally the round I think you actually stops it when the rounds over but you at look as the referee Joe you know all of this and if you don't You're not doing your job first off. You know, he's got a full minute If I let this go one second He's got a full minute to recover here even if I did think he was a little bit hurt now I think that if that was a legitimate eight count and they went right back to fighting he would have stopped him there Maybe I think he was really rocked when you see him go back to his corner Maybe he's the key word see one of the things that used to be though in boxing It was always that you would if a mouthpiece hit the ground You had to take it to the corner have it rinsed with water and have it placed back in the fighter's mouth Right. Okay. That's not the way it is anymore because of MMA And the fact that we take a we take a mouthpiece off of the ground and shoot stuff it right back in the fighter's mouth They have now changed to the point of they do the same thing the difference is Many times we'll hand the mouthpiece to the to the MMA fighter because they have you know gloveless fingers right right and they put it back in Sometimes we'll put it back in depending upon situations, but in boxing now you take it I'll put it back in his mouth. I'll say is that good? Boom fight and you don't Is that how does one has an Egypt as well? Do you think that's possible? You're talking about you know with under the unified rules of boxing now, which is North America. Okay. Okay. That's you know Most of the time you go to Egypt. They're still fighting under the unified rules. But the refereeing is always gonna be different when you get a referee from England or somewhere. It's a little bit different. - But I wonder if the referee rules are different over there. If you're supposed to rinse off the mouthpiece before you put it back. - No, what it means is you have not advanced as a referee to understand what we do now. - Right, but what I'm saying is do they have different rules over there? - No, this is what I'm saying. - Definitely not. - You have not advanced as a referee. - So everybody is saying what we do now. - mouthpiece goes down, you pick it up. Right back in the street. - So it's like when the UFC goes to a country that doesn't have a commission. They sometimes they'll bring herb-dee and they'll bring referees with them. So they know the rules to make sure that something like this doesn't happen. That referee hasn't followed up with the rules in a big time fight. So he's not gone and advanced his training to understand. This is what we do now and this is why. Because we don't want, I don't want to take that time from Usic because Usic did his job. He hit him with an upper cut that absolutely blasted and puts him on the mat. You go and he gets up, you give him a mandatory. Now his mouthpiece comes out. Am I gonna walk it over to a corner and have that mouthpiece washed out with water, which does what for it? - Right. - It does a distance back to the cookies. - Exactly, and that's the real thing. So it doesn't do anything. And obviously if there's something in the mouthpiece, we remove the thing from the mouthpiece. But normally it's just bitten blood if that's what's there. Put it back in, boom, bring it back in as abruptly as you can to make it fair for Usic who gained an advantage in the fight. You don't want to give the advantage to Verhoeven. - Also his mouthpiece came out earlier in the fight as well. It's like that's a bad mouthpiece for a guy who's a world class kickboxer. - That thing should be so hard for you to pull out. - Yeah, it's odd that he kept falling out of his mouth. Rico with a boiling bite is nuts. - Dude, right. - Hold it in the heavyweight division. - Not nuts. - Do you remember Carl Peresian? - Sure. - We were a boiling bite that wasn't boiled. - Oh, dude. - Straight out of the packaging. That's the way people are though. - That's wild to me. - Boil and bites are nuts. - Well, it's also nuts. Here's, we talk about this in the USC broadcast all the time, but I think it's nuts that you're still allowed to wear a tie steel cup. I think it's fucking crazy. - That's crazy. - That's what I would wear. - You have a, I would too. - Yeah. - That's all I ever wore. I can't wrap my head around how fighters don't wear them. - 100%. - I agree with you 100%. However, it should be illegal. - That's fucking crazy. You have a piece of metal on your dick. You have actual iron over your cock. And if a guy kicks it with his toe, it's gonna shatter. - I've always wondered the North Salvo position. You just start humping their head, right? - Oh, dude. - Just giving them the business. - This is the one that did that. - Do you ever have to be a renavarti? Do you remember that guy? - Yeah. - I trained with him at Legends and he mounted me once and he almost made me tap right here. - Yeah, by just digging his dick into my sternum. - Nope, fuck it. - He's so rude. - Ain't great fine, man. I'm like, bro, you're fucking killing me with this. - I was like, it showed me Carter, it showed me Carter. - Oh, it showed me Carter just to wear the oversized cup. - Also awesome for arm balls. - Yes, that's how Frank Meard broke Tim Sylvia's arm. - Oh yeah. - It was off of that. - That makes up. - Completely make sense. - Yeah. - But I think it would have broken if it was just his nuts. - Well, this is strong as Frank. - This is strong as he was, how good his arm arm was. In that position, that was a crazy situation. - Oh, yes it was. - That was crazy. Because I don't think the people in the audience had any idea of what had happened. - Are you, if you go back to that, 'cause Herb Dean was a referee and Herb did a great job. But it was, I was actually in the corner of Tim Sylvia, where I was sitting and I had Jeremy Horn and Matt Hughes and Pat Milititor in his corner, right? And they had this, I had the same view that they had. And what you saw was Tim Sylvia, but you saw his elbow out from that arm bar. - Yeah. - Away from the hip and all of a sudden Herb's stopping it. And they are going crazy. They're going, "What are you doing?" And they're calling him every name of the book. And I go right inside the octagon and I go, "Herb, what did you have?" And he goes, "John, his arm broke." I go, "His arm broke?" And he goes, "I heard it and I saw it." - Yeah, you can see the vibration. - And he goes, "His arm broke," right? And so at the time, the person who was in charge of the medical staff for the Nevada State Athletic Mission System, it was in Nevada. They're looking at Tim and Tim is like going, you know, but you saw Tim slowly stop doing using that one arm, started going down to the side as, as reality started setting in and the pain started coming. But they basically said there's nothing wrong with his arm. Right? I swear to you, Herb's greatest response I've ever heard. He goes, "X-ray that motherfucker," right? Because Herb never costumes, right? He goes, "X-ray that motherfucker." It's broken, right? And sure enough, straight across both bones. - Well, we can see it in the report. - Oh, yeah. - And you called it out. - Yeah. - 'Cause everybody was booing. I'm like, "You gotta watch this. Watch this, what's that? What's that right there? That's broken up." - When I saw the first time on TV, I thought I'd just shift it off of the cup, 'cause sometimes you'll see that, the bone will shift off, but then it, you can tell us. - Oh, no. - You just saw it on the radio too. - He's two distinct pops. - He didn't have like that highlight where something bends, like a piece of plastic. - Yeah. (laughs) - It's horrible, man. - Oh my God. He's broken more arms, like he broke no garris arm. That spiral fracture. - Yes, spiral fracture with a Camaro, yeah. - Oh. - Yeah, he's nasty, man. - No, that's, you know, it's funny, 'cause if you're around, you know, Frank and you're talking, he'll always say. - Oh, here it is. - Oh, God. - I don't wanna watch it again. - Oh. - Oh, watch it. - Boom, boom. - Here it comes. - Right here. - Right here. - Pop, pop. - Oh, yeah. - Oh, oh, oh, oh, God. - And it's the forearm too. - Yeah. - It's just, like, super unusual. And everyone's wondering, why'd you stop it? Why'd you stop it? - Oh, dude. - Herb was getting booed out of the arena there. - I remember this. - It was so bad. - Tim was complaining. - Oh, yeah. - Like, come on, bro. Like, you know what you say. He has to know what just happened. - Oh, he knows. - He's got, he's just such an animal. He wanted to fight with a broken arm, which, which, you know, literally, you might have to get it amputated if you did that. - Oh. - Like, when I was a kind of damaged, you would have after that. - You could lose your arm. - Yeah, you'd lose your arm. - But you'll get people all the time, you know. I mean, some of the commentators and some of the shows, you know, oh, if he wants to fight, let him fight. It's like, shut up. - Shut up. - Okay. - Yeah. - This is, you gotta protect him. - You gotta protect him from this stuff. - Exactly, this is not life and death. If you lose a fight, I know it sucks, but it just sucks, and it's not life and death. It's okay. - Crazy situations like Carlos Oldberg, who knocks out your prohoscow with a clearly blown out knee. - Oh, yeah. Like, if that went to the round at the end of the round, they would have probably stopped the fight. - Well, think about what Santos, right? He had a fight in John Jones with two torn out ACLs and PCL, right? - Yeah. - That's John Jones. - Yeah. - I mean, he gave him a good fight. - He gave him a great fight. - Yeah. - I think that was a split decision. - Oh, it was. - Which is nuts. - Yeah. - That's nuts. Like, he could have won. - For food. - Yeah, like, one more incompetent judge. (laughing) Now we're going to incompetent judges. Now we're gonna have problems. Well, whoever was judging the Usic fight was incompetent. Those people were ridiculous. The fact that they didn't have Rico ahead, it's crazy. They just, I think when you got a guy like Usic who's arguably the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time, he's definitely in the conversation. And then you have so much money involved in him being undefeated. And so, and whether the referee's corrupt or not, they know. Whether the judges are corrupt or not, they know. And if they fuck things up for everybody, you know, there's like, there's some weird shenanigans that go on in boxing. You remember that lady that scored, who was a Pacquiao fight against Tim Bradley? She was one of the ones that she scored a bunch of fights. - I thought you were gonna talk Canelo against Triple G. - There was a Canelo one that she scored bad. Yeah, there's a, she scored a bunch of fights where you're like, what the fuck is this? And then you have to realize about betting props. - Yeah. - No, no, it's not Natalie Bird though. - No. - Natalie Bird was the Canadian one. - Triple G. - Very nice lady. - She's like, I'm gonna give her props in this. First off, she doesn't do a whole lot of boxing. But she does do a lot of MMA, does a lot of the UFC still in. That woman watches more fights to goes to more trainings. She puts in all the time that you could imagine to always try to get better. She is asking questions all the time. Now, if you're gonna sit there and say, well, as she, you know, can she roll? No, she can't. But she knows what, if you say, okay, what's this? She'll tell you. What's this? She knows it. You know, she puts in that time. But you know, you're always gonna have the, there's certain fights no matter what. They're always gonna be there, you know, as the judge, you're always, you're trying to do your best. - Yeah, but there's just one lady where she was involved in quite a few like ridiculous ones. And the Tim Bradley, many pack out one was a big one. And then they looked at some other ones and then she stepped away from it. The problem is, and I'm not accusing this lady or anybody of this, but I'm saying that some people have done this in the past, is that all you have to do is make it a split decision. All you have to do is be one shitty judge that even though it was clearly for this guy, you say it's for that guy and someone's making a ton of loop. - Yeah, especially in this day and age with betting. - 100% man, the UFC has a real problem. - Oh yeah? - There's a real problem with quite a few fights. The FBI has looked into quite a few fights. And there's one that they focused on in the beginning 'cause they knew that there was some improper betting. But now they're focused on a bunch of other ones as well. - Yeah, but I'm gonna say this about the judge. - I think that you can get away with it, John, to think that you're gonna be able to get away with it. - You're an idiot. - It's just fucking stupid. - You're an idiot. As the fighter, you're a fool. But if you were around the judging, especially in the UFC, because it's mainly a lot of the same guys. You know, these guys are on text links. They are consistently. Every, Joe, every UFC fight, my phone blows up. It blows up with fighters. It blows up from other officials asking, what about that, what did you see? What do you think? And it's because, look, there is, at times, we get media and we get people talking about our fights that call robberies when there's no robbery. It's a close fight. Right. And if you, you wanted, you're got to win it. Hello, you did not win. If robbery, you know, I pointed it out to him. I had him sit one time. Hey, sit where the judge sits. Because you get one view. You, as the commentator, you get that beautiful monitor that's in front of you. There's times when you're watching the fight live and there's times when you're watching the monitor because the angle changed. As the judge, now they put the monitor there for the judges. And like the UFC puts a great monitor there for him. But we didn't always have that. And you didn't always, many times, you had the worst seat in the house to be able to judge your fight. So, especially if there's a post in front of you. Yeah. And it's so different than what people think. And it's, when you are the one that's putting your name on that score card, you're signing it. And you know this counts. It's everything. It is everything to you to be right. You want to be right. 100%. Many times what you're seeing. And that's why they're at the three different points. And that's why something, you know, people get into this, well, it was a split decision. Split decision is not always bad. Do you think they would benefit in having five judges instead of three? No. No. I've worked with it. I've done it too many times. It doesn't change anything. It doesn't. I'm just being honest. If it did, I would say, yeah, we should do it. But if you have two bad judges and three good ones. Why do you have two bad judges? That's the question. That is a question. But it is the question. That is the question. But when you're on the road, let's be honest. We're on the road, let's not even name a state. We show up, we have to use these regular local guys. There have been issues. I'm not saying there haven't. Right? There's there are bad judges. Yes, absolutely. I love cops. There's bad cops. But there are. I love dentists. There's some bad dentists. There's some fucking people that do surgeries. They don't have to do them. You know what I mean? Oh yeah. It's like, it doesn't, it's not saying that the people that do it and do a great job shouldn't be supported and praised. And they definitely should. But it's also, it's like, it would benefit, I think, everybody to have a few more opinions. Like, I like verdict, do you see verdict? I know verdict. I think I burped them up a bunch of times. I think they're accurate, like 99% of the time. I look at the verdict score. I'm like, most of the time out of 100 fights, most of the time I agree with the verdict score. There's many times, you can take a look at this. When I started teaching the command course and everything, people, you gotta teach, I'm teaching people to take my job. Right, right. But in the end, I need a lot of referees, luckily. And they need a lot of judges. But they also need a lot of referees for the big ones, where you can't fuck this up, you know what I mean? Yeah, like that's where it is. It's important, but it's not the job that people think it is. It is not as easy as people think it is. Oh, it's definitely not easy. And it's definitely. It's the hardest job next to being a fighter. Yeah. I think it's fighters number one, referees number two. Yes and no. And you're right, as far as the fighting's much more difficult as far as, you know, what it does to your body and what you have to put out into it and all that way more difficult. Also, the consequences of fucking it up. Boom. I don't have the consequences. If I make a bad call as a commentator, it's like, "Oh, Joseph did it." Okay. That doesn't mean anything. Like, nobody loses money. Like, somebody could lose half their fucking purse, which I hate, by the way. Yeah. I don't like the whole win bonus. Everyone's trying to win. I hate it. Can't stand it. Can't stand it. You should get your prize fighter. That's right. You should get paid to compete. This is the number. Whether it's 200,000 or two. It shouldn't be dependent upon judge's decisions. It should be dependent upon you showed up. You fought your fucking ass off. You're trying to win. If you win, you're going to make more money. No one's trying to lose, right? So it's like, what are we doing? This episode is brought to you by Blue Choo. I'm sure you've heard of Blue Choo by now. But let me tell you what they've been up to. They've been on a mission to get you bricked up for years. And now, the number one brand for better sex. Over five million happy men have bought Blue Choo for better sex. And you know what? Girls love the results, too. 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I think you, you know, the fact that there have been bad decisions and guys have lost half their fucking purse when they need it. And it's, it's, you got robbed. That's when you really got robbed, not just the decision, but you got robbed financially, which is fucking crazy to me. I think fighters should get, I don't think they fight harder. I don't think anybody can fight harder. They want to win. They want to win. That's it. No one's fighting harder because it's just something sitting out there and if they are, they probably shouldn't be fighting you anyway, because they're not at a elite, like world class level. If they're fighting harder, if you're in the top 15, you're not going to fight harder because you're getting paid more. You've, you've worked your way there to get there. Your pride is to involve your egos involved. You want to, you're too fucking good. Yeah, you want to show when you're the boss. I've always said, like if you ask a fighter before the fight, hey, how much are you going to win for that? If they're going to get a 40, 40, they're going to get a 50, 50. They're going to say, 100,000. They've already mentally spent that money. Yeah, trust me. It's always true. They got that win bonus in there. Kind of impulsive. Yeah, it's fighters are the best at saving cash. I know. Yeah, so it's, but you take a look, you know, it's good to save a money though. It's trickling. You would think he'd be the most reckless guy? No, very smart. Yeah, very smart with his money. Yeah. Most of these guys are buying jeans and shirts and glasses. No, no, they're buying ringlers and he wears the same thing every day. Yeah. But he saves his money, man. He's got a lot of money saved up. Learning how smart. Smarting how to be frugal is very important, especially if you're an athlete. A hundred types of athlete. Especially if you're an athlete like Strickland, it's two rides a motorcycle. That's like a pet. I still ride a motorcycle. He's still? Oh, yeah. You didn't learn anything from Frank Mayor when he broke his femur? I'm surprised. I remember that. Frank Mayor breaking his femur is what kept me from getting a motorcycle license. That was the last one. Really? Yeah, two friends crashed. One friend wiped out and fucked up his shoulder. And then Frank Mayor got T-bone and I was like, I'm out. It all comes down. There's the old saying. There's two types of motorcycle riders. One's that have been down and one's that are going down. Yeah. And that's just the truth. That's the problem. I felt like I'm hurting myself so many days a week just doing Jiu Jitsu, doing that on top of that. I don't want to risk. No. Yeah. Especially if you haven't been doing it because there's ways to ride and you don't ride. I can watch people on the road and I go, that dude does an out and out ride. And it's like they're the ones that I think that's what's scary. You get a lot of license. Figure out how to ride it and buy a bike and you fucking, you know, it's like you could go to a car dealership right now and pick up a Corvette Zero one. You got a 1000 horsepower car. Yeah. Right? And like, who knows if you know how to really just say you prepared to drive that thing. That's a fighter jet on wheels. That's exactly the same. He just give it to somebody. But it's awesome. Yeah. Your parents are rich. So you have a fucking fighter jet on wheels. Like this is nuts. You know what you're talking about Sean Strickland with how many cars do you need? You know, I tell fighters all that. How many cars do you need? You know, dude, I've had arguments with rampage because rampage got 8 million cars. Yeah. Dude, how many cars can you put your ass in at one time? Right? And it's like you're blowing through money that you can't get back. You can't get back. You know what I'm saying? What about cars? It's depending on what kind of cars you have. Some cars are on wheels. If you're going to do an investment, that's fine. Muscle cars. They're always worth money. If you're a fighter, you need to take a page out of Forest Gryffin's book, right? With the sign on that he won for the ultimate fighter, he drove that thing into the ground. Door handles were off. He can't roll the window down to open the door from the outside. He's such a character. Yeah. But I mean, that's how you have to live. You're going to be a professional athlete, a professional fighter. That's how you have to live. Especially early in your career. You don't know how long it's going to last. Yeah. Also, there's something to be said for the comforts of nice things and luxuries kind of slowing you down a little bit. Not everybody. That doesn't seem to do it to Aaron Sarukin. No. That's what you can do to him. He breaks the whole rule book. Yeah. Rich kids. Yeah. Fights like a demon. He does. He does. He is such a stud, man. Constantly competing and wrestling. Doing everything. He's wrestling this weekend. Here at Roth Wrestling in Arlington. Animal. Yeah. I saw what I saw of us. I said, just keep doing what you're doing. Just killing it. Just keep doing what you're doing. I think the best thing that could have happened to him is not getting a title fight. That guy's built up. No. Yeah. He's capitalized on the bad situation that he put himself in. Yeah. He was also the headbutt with Dan Horkin. Absolutely. That was crazy. Absolutely. Because you're as a promoter, right? You could have cost me all this money if you get, if you get cut. Yeah. You get cut. They pull the fight. Right. Oh my God. Can you imagine? Come on, knucklehead. Yeah. Stop. But I want you to fight. What he's been doing with R.A.F. What he's been doing with his Nina drama stuff and all that's a, hey, keep going. - Yeah, very smiley, people are talking about you. - Very smiley. - And he is the most interesting contender for Iliott to hold it. - Absolutely. - Oh yeah, 100% other than Justin, which is gonna be wild. But I think him, the skills that he has, the wrestling that he has, and the size, he's a lot bigger than Iliott. - You know, I asked DC and Dustin both yesterday on my show, I wanna, why do you think people are over, overlooking Justin? - That's a good question. I mean, he's got all the tools and the weapons. Iliott's poor, he's heavy on the lead leg. Justin Gates, he's got a heavy leg kick. He's got a great upper cut. He's fighting the shorter fighter in Iliott to Poria. - He's a bigger guy. - He's a way bigger. - He's not making 145 ever. - No. - He's a much bigger guy. He's a really good wrestler and he's a nasty striker. And he's also a kind of a fucking savage. - No, he's not kind of. - Yeah, I mean, like a real savage, not like pretending. When he fought Michael Johnson in his UFC debut he just threw himself at Michael Johnson. And he did the same thing with Patty Pimbley. - Yeah. - The Patty Pimbley fight. He could have fought that fight a lot cleaner. - Yeah. - And he just said, "Fuck you, I'm just gonna walk you down and just blast you every chance I get and break you up." And that's what he did. And he's a fucking scary dude, man. Justin's a scary dude. When he's on, and this is the last dance, right? So you know that he's gonna be hyper focused for this fight. - I just can't see why people are overlooking him. Like they're just looking at him. Like, oh, he doesn't have a chance. He can get knocked out. - I think they're taking away as easily as possible. - 'Cause Ilya has done it to all these guys that are also really good. And he has destroyed it. - Yeah. - In a row. - In a row. - Three in a row. - Let me, let me. - Max Holloway. - I was at a Volcanoesky and fucking. - Do Bronx fucking crazy. - Crazy. - Crazy. - Crazy. - Yes. - I don't hold it against him. - And how fast is it kind of somewhere? Is there an asterisk next to it a little bit? Because Volcanoesky coming off the head kick knockout. - Yes. - Max Holloway. Holloway cutting from 55 to 45 after putting all the weight on, then getting knocked out. - The only one I would say knows Charles. 'Cause he goes up, fights Charles, you know. - Charles, no. - Max Holloway, yes, because he cut the weight, but that was his decision. - That's right. - And no one should have let Volcanoesky take that fight. - No. - You got head kick four months ago into a coma. There's no fucking chance you should be taking a fight with the scariest puncher in the division. - Is that a coach's corner family decision where you think? - He's an animal. - He is an animal. - He's a fucking animal. - You can do it. - Yeah, but see, that's when you have to have the people. - Yes. - Maybe in your corner, in your family, you're saying, "Hey, I think it's honestly in your family." I think you need like someone who loves you. Someone who-- - Someone who is just absolutely, totally honest saying, you can't do this this fast. I'm not saying you can't do it. - Right. - But you have to do these things to be able to make it to where you have a ability to take a shot like you used to, because it's diminished at this moment. - Not just that. You have to take into consideration that he gets knocked out, and then he goes right into camp. Okay, so you're not gonna rest your brain. - No. - You're just not. Even if you're just wrestling, you're not resting your brain. - You can't. Anytime your body temperature rises. - Right. - You're damaging your brain. Especially if you haven't let it recover yet. - And there's no way he let it recover. I mean, he got shined, shined to the dome by one of the biggest guys that ever fought at 55. - Yeah. - Islam's huge for 55. - Six foot tall. And then he fucking takes the fight on 11 days notice with no camp, and he's eating barbecue and fucking drinking fosters. - Oh. (laughing) - But like you, that's the best thing I've ever seen. - He's a fucking, he's a fucking all-time great. - Oh, no doubt about it. - He's an all-time great. And you know, when you go back and look at his fights with Max, like he was the first guy to figure out Max, you know? And then you look at what he did cleaning out the division. I mean, my God, I would have loved to see the fair shake. I would have loved to see, I would have never advised him to take that fight with Islam on 11 days notice. I mean, I don't care what the fucking UFC says. - No. - Go John Jones. What does John Jones do? John Jones had an opportunity to fight Chale Sun and with very little notice. - That's right. - He was already in shape. - Dan Henderson fight. - Nope, won't fight him. Not gonna fight him unless I have a full camp preparing just for him. I'm not giving anybody any fucking chances. Period. See ya. Bye. I'm the champ. And if Volkanovsky had that mindset, he would have never fought in Islam unless he went through a full camp again. Because he almost beat him the first time. It was a really close fight the first time. The second fight he comes in, he's a little soft. He's not in shape. His mind's not right. - It was also the difference in the wake cut for Islam. - Yes. - Islam was on 30 some hours compared to-- - Right. - He's on Australia time the first time. The second time, he's like fully rehydrated. Much more time to recover. Much more dangerous. - I think it was more of the expectation that Volk thought, I'll just do the same thing I did in the first fight. - Of course, because he's an animal. - Yeah, that's where you need your brother. You need someone to go, dude, I love you. You're an animal, you're one of the greatest of all time. But the brain is the brain. Like there's just certain, you don't want to fight with a broken hand, right? Okay, just because you can't see it, doesn't mean your head's not damaged. - That's the damage. - That's the difference though, is exactly what you're saying is, the brain doesn't hurt. - Right. - It doesn't have nerve endings. And so you can't sit there and say, oh man, I've got this problem. Intel, you end up concussed. Intel, now all of a sudden the headaches are occurring and the bright lights start to bother you. And all these things start to add up and you're starting to get mad about things that you can't understand. Why am I getting mad right now? Those are the tell-tell signs of, hey, I need to step away for a while. - Do you remember when Travis Luder thought, oh yeah, who was it? - Eastman. - Eastman, Marvin Eastman. - Marvin Eastman. And he caught Marvin Eastman with a punch, which was a regular punch. - Just nothing. - The Eastman went and then we found out later, oh he had got KO'd really bad. I think by Tito, in training. - Yep. - And it's like, that's it. - He been T KO'd twice. - Oh. - Twice in training. - Oh God, you're crazy. - You're looking, you go and that's why he went out the way he did. - 100%. - 'Cause it was a weird. - Off of something he never would have been hurt by. - It was weird. It was weird, it was like a straight left. The condom at the end of the punch. - Yeah, end of the punch. - Hardly moved it. - Hardly moved it. - Yeah. - Just fell back. 'Cause his brain was damaged. - You gotta give your time a full time recovery. - 1-5 days, up to six months, eating more fats, more avocados, things like that to help your brain recover. - When Juan was well, Marquez knocked out Pacquiao. Freddie Roach said, "You're not doing anything for a year." - It's a smart. - And he got his chin back. It took that year off and he came back actually recovered. But Freddie, being a long time boxer himself and being around the game and seeing guys getting knocked out and seeing guys jumping back into quick, he knew. - Freddie being one himself. - Yes. - Look, people don't realize Freddie was actually a good boxer. He was, he had a good amateur record. He was doing well in the process. Do you remember who his trainer was? His trainer was Eddie Futch. Eddie Futch, who was the second trainer for Joe Frazier after Yance Durham died and Joe Frazier. He was there for the thriller in Manila with Ali and stuff like that. Yeah, and Eddie Futch told Freddie Roach, "Son, you're taking too many shots. You're getting hit with too many good ones. You're not responding the same way. You're done. You gotta stop." And Freddie Roach got rid of Eddie Futch and continued to fight his professional and just kept getting knocked out. And that was the end of his career. And then he became the trainer and, you know, you can take a look at a lot of the issues that he has. But as much as you're looking at, you know, you're looking at that with Freddie, take a look at his brother, Pepper, who took a lot less is worse than Freddie. I mean, Pepper's gone now, but I mean, he had shots and trauma to the brain, especially when you don't give it the opportunity to rest and heal. It will absolutely take and burn your career. You know, burn it. No doubt. And there's no way to really tell. There's so many guys that are damaged and we don't know 'cause you meet them backstage like, "Hey, how you doing, everything's great." But meanwhile, it's not great. These guys are struggling. They don't remember what you just said. Exactly. And then they're talking to people, they repeat things over and over again. And you can watch, you know, I hate to say it. There was a fight or fought in the UFC, fought in Bear Knuckle Boxing now. He's now training guys. And it's Joey Beltran, okay? No, I know. How did decent career, heavy puncher took a lot of damage. And I'm just watching Joey Beltran walk off of stairs and having to go one step at a time with each foot. And you look and you go, "Damn." And you know, hey, he's been altered. He's a great guy, but it's like, that's what all of this does in the end. You've got to understand that, you know. I always, I try to tell fighters how to look. You're a Ferrari, you know? You want to be a Lamborghini or a Lamborghini. But first off, it's like, you know, the whole John Jones thing is, you know, be careful of what you put in its gas tank, okay? Same with, you know, other guys. You know, I don't mean to pick out on John, but, you know, he's told the story of what he was doing. And so, be careful what you put in the gas tank and realize, you can only crash that car so many times before it's a piece of junk. - Right. - And it's hard to get that through that this is not gonna last forever and I'm not gonna be the same forever. - Yeah. - They just don't see it until all of a sudden it's there. - Well, that's why it's a real bummer when you see coaches that you know love the fighters and they haven't stepped in. They haven't done anything. And they're keeping training these guys. - 'Cause they'll lose them. - Yeah, exactly. And that's what's horrible. It's horrible that you, you know, you have to, there has to be the kind of relationship where you get to a fork in the road and you go, "This is what this is." Like it doesn't mean that your life is over. - No, it's the start of your next life. - Yeah, just you can't identify yourself. Well, Josh, you can speak to this because, you know, you fought at the highest level. for a long fucking time and you stepped away healthy. - Yeah, and I had this conversation with Dustin yesterday, I just said hey, I feel like you could still do it. You're right there, you're one fight away from fighting for another title again. And he's like, it was just the time. And I can completely respect that. I said because he's having time now with his two kids, his wife, he's enjoying his moment. He just got done lifting, he was looking swole. And I was like, it was, I was like, it's good to see you, he came on, the show's all sweaty a little bit like, you know, he's enjoying this next chapter of his life. - I like when guys go out there could be. - Oh, absolutely. - They offer him a bunch of money, he's like, nope. - Yep. - Good, did it, done by. - And I hate when people try to rag him on it. It drives me crazy, they sit there and go, oh yeah, but you know, you could have done this, you could have done that. - Fools. - He gives zero five. - It doesn't matter. He doesn't care, he doesn't look at what he did. That's all you need to know. - He dominated people that nobody dominated. - Oh, and he did it in a crazy way. Like, I'm speaking of Barbosa, I remember that fight where Barbosa had that thousand yard stare. - So do I. - In the first round. - He was like, oh my god, this is never gonna go my way. - No, it's not, it wasn't gonna. - Hey. - I actually looked something up the other day. It could be because the only guy is never blood inside the UFC octagon. - That's crazy. - He's the only fighter to never bleed inside the UFC. - That's crazy. - What about Joel? - That's wild. - He's the most dominant fighter in some of that. - Look, John Jones being, you know, considered the greatest. - John Jones is the greatest, as far as you're gonna say, who's done it better as far as all the championship fights and all of that stuff, John Jones is the guy. - Right. - He, the most dominant fighter I ever stepped into that cage with was Habib. - Look at this. Can you even ever, visibly, blood was severely bruised or was knocked down during his professional MMA career? - Who's the only person you ever saw heard of? - Connor. - Nope. - No. - Well, Gleason T-Bow hurt a little bit. - You can say Michael Johnson. - Michael Johnson, there's that top. - Michael Johnson had one where he gave it. He gave a little bit of what I was doing that fight. - That's right, Michael Johnson. - And he had, I was like, oh, yeah, that's right. Michael Johnson called out. - He sucked it right back up. - I said, I go, I go, you heard, he's like, I probably come on, you know, I'm not hurt. (laughing) - That was it. - No, it was the same, you talked about, you know, Michael Johnson against Gachy, and after that fight, 'cause I did that fight and I told Justin, hey, congratulations, that was a great performance. You got hurt. You went through it, he goes, I never got hurt. I go, go watch the video. - I never got hurt. - I was like, I never got hurt. - Oh yeah, you got hurt. - Those guys went to war. - Oh man. - The crazy thing was when Kabeeb was on top of Michael Johnson and he was saying, come on brother, you know, I need deserve kind of shot. - He was saying, I don't wanna do this to you. I don't wanna, and then when he almost, when he got him in the Kamora I was like, please tag. - Oh, so, 'cause you're so pleased up? - Yeah. - What do you think I'm saying? - It was so, I think the only reason why I didn't break 'cause Kabeeb was probably being kind. - Yeah. - Like he's talking to him. - The whole time, the entire fight. - You have to give up, he's saying, you have to give up, come on, bro. - Do you know I need to fight for title? - It's my destiny, I have to fight for the title. - Yeah, I need to fight for the title. You know this, I deserve this. - You agree, he's like, you agree? He's saying this while he's beating his ass. - You're like a Johnson bike, huh? - I mean, he was just a motherfucker, dude. So everybody agrees. - So everybody agrees. - Yeah. - As he's beating his ass, he's saying, see, everybody agrees. - Well, how about when he was on top of Connerd, he'd say, let's talk now. - Oh yeah. - He's punching with the face. - Come on, let's talk now. - Let's talk now. - I loved it. I was a monster, dude. Could be, but he's just so relentless. - But it's everything to do with his lifestyle. And this is where you get into, you know, you've seen it too many times, champions. And there's been great champions, but when you become the champion, everything in your life changes. The things that come your way, change, you know, you get offered things that you didn't get offered in the same way before, you get all these opportunities and all of a sudden, instead of going to the gym, you're spending the day on a plane, going to a location to do something. Sometimes it's for the promotion that you're working for. Sometimes it's for the UFC or whatever promotion there is. And because they're asking you, so you're missing that day of training. And then you're getting back on the plane, you're coming back the next day. And that's another day that you're missing. He never missed training. He never changed his lifestyle. He did everything the same. And that's why he had the results of God. - Well, for a super successful guy, he's still so humble. He's so like normal to talk to. He's so balanced. And it's that discipline that he has. - He's disciplined. - His religious beliefs, like he's just so, so rock solid. - The thing about him is that he tries to make sure he puts the guys that had helped get him there, tries to help them get elevated as well. You know, and that's kind of what I'm trying to say is that how you've done with your guys, with your group of comics and friends, you guys all lift each other up. He does the same thing with the group of friends that he has. So not just like myself and DC and Islam and those guys. I mean, when they go to travel for events, he takes care of the house. He makes sure that it's all organized. Make sure that there's enough room for everyone. There's food. You know, obviously all the guys, other guys chip in, but it's like he's the one that's kind of organized and everything. He's the leader of that team. And I'd love seeing somebody that puts that much effort into guys that helped get him there as well. - Yeah, no, he's a real leader. He's a real leader and now that he's coaching, I mean, you imagine you're a kid and you need motivation, you're literally being coached by one of the greatest combat sports athletes to ever walk on God's Earth. - And one that did it right the entire time. - The entire time. - And it is all about discipline and hard work. Like you couldn't pick a better camp, especially if you're a grappling-based guy. You know, like send him to Dagestown two, three years ago. (laughing) - It's the greatest meme of all time. - I think what separates Islam and have even that whole group is that there's never a moment where they're not training. Like I was in Chicago at one of the events for Belator. We were there and I was headed down to the bar after the event. They were headed to the gym, passing me in the elevator. It's like, come up and talk to me. So I was up there for an hour. Just chat with them or they're riding bikes. You know, lifting weights, getting their workout in and everyone else is down at the bar drinking. - Wow. - You know, and so it's, it doesn't matter. They don't even look at it. They don't think about it. They just go right to the gym. They get their sweat on. They're up there for two hours. It's not, it's not like this intensity. - It's not a 25 minute, right. - It's like working. - Yeah, and then-- - They never let themselves get out of shape. - No, that's it. - And then you see them in the morning, right? When they were training out at AK in the mornings, you'd see them at the track in the mornings. They were just jogged, but then there was little stations where you do sit-ups and push-ups. They would do those and they would do it for two, three miles and they'd come to the gym at noon and they'd do their workouts sometimes hard, sometimes not. But they were always training, always working. And that's what separates them. They're not out at the club until two, three in the morning. They're trying to recover the next day. They're not drinking. They're not smoking. They're not doing-- - The no-drinking is huge. - Huge. - Huge. If there's one thing that fucks fighters up more than anything, it's partying. Drinking especially, I guess Coke, but I don't have a lot of experience with guys that I know that we're doing Coke, but I have a lot of experience with guys that were drinkers. And you would see them in the morning on like, they would go out Saturday night. Sunday they'd be fucked up. They show up Monday to train and they just look like shit. Because they had been party in too hard just two days ago. And you don't think that that's gonna make a big difference. But if you're getting drunk on Saturday night, that's days before you're back to baseline. - Days, right. - You know, and you can get away with it when you're 23. - Yeah. - A little bit kind of, but are you? Because you're probably not as good as you would have been. And then maybe you're gonna get hit with some shots. You wouldn't get hit with or you're gonna get tapped when you wouldn't have got tapped. - Yeah. - See, and then you take a look, that's the big difference. And you go back and look at a beam's career. Go back and look at his first fight in the UFC and look at how bad, and I'm serious, how bad his standup was. - Oh, yeah, it wasn't the best. - Oh, no, it was probably the worst. - Okay, it was. - I don't think it was the worst. - It was bad. - He did a lot of things. - No, he shit. - Yeah. - But take a look at it. - No, it's where his standup is. - When he was at the end. - Oh, yeah. - It was tight. He always was improving. - Oh, he was angry. - And memory drove him. - And I'm proud. - Oh, he cracked Conner. - Yeah, with a big right hand, which was like, everybody was like, holy shit. Like there was a shocker. - I had several conversations with Shob about that 'cause I went down and did his show a couple times in LA, before that fight. And I said, look, stylistically, Conner's the better striker. I go, but the intimidation of the takedown and the threat of the takedown for Conner, it's gonna make him hesitant. I said, don't be surprised if a B-Vin's Atlanta is some good, some good, hard shots on the feet. - That's a giant factor. The fear of the takedown. The bad about Kevin Roundham and he fought Crocop when he knocked him out. That was what it was. - Absolutely. - And the fear of the takedown. The thinking. - The thought process of, I can't let him. - Well, you get it. Kevin Roundham and Crocop fought a straight kickboxing match with no takedowns. Jesus Christ. - It's a walking, I mean, you don't want it on a walk. - It'd be terrible to watch. But that threat of the takedown is this factor that keeps you from being comfortable, it keeps you from finding your flow state. - That little hesitation opens up so many opportunities to catch him. - Yeah, it's big. It's so big. You see it in fights all the time when a guy just has this extra element of the to end one. So that's why it's so impressive when you see a guy like Pereira where there's no threat of the takedown. - Yeah. - There's no threat. It's not happening. He's not even thinking about takedowns. He's just gonna fuck you up. And now it's up to you to deal with that. - We just don't have the level of wrestlers these days in the 205 and the heavyweight division to compete with them in the wrestling area. - That's where you have someone like Steven coming in, Gable coming in, in the heavyweight division. Okay, Curtis Blades can wrestle. Now Josh Hockett. Look, Josh Hockett's the real deal. He was a, he's a good athlete. - Yeah. - He's a good all-around athlete. - He's a character. - He's gonna go with a stick. - Oh, hey. You got a stick in the bottom. - Exactly. - But also he put up. - Yeah. - He put up. - Oh. - He put up in that Curtis Blades. - Hello, that fight as a heavyweight fight was awesome. - Awesome. - Awesome to watch. - Yeah. - You know, terrible for your known, though. - Oh, yes. - And that's the crazy thing that he's gonna fight Derek Lewis, who's the biggest knockout puncher in the history of the fucking heavyweight division. - Yeah. - More knockouts than anyone. And he's gonna fight him. What? How many weeks? Seven weeks? seven weeks, seven fucking weeks after a war. - Hello. - Usually Curtis played his fists, they're like this. They're like that big. They're gigantic. He's a giant man and he hit him a bunch of times. Big shots. - And what, look, I gotta give it up for Curtis plays. What a fight he put on because he took some damage. - He delivered some big shots. - It's mad hard, it's mad hard. - Crazy, crazy hard because he just did not want to lose that shit talk and do it. (laughing) - That was funny. That's a funny thing. It's like, okay, it will drop the act when you talk to him in real life. And in the ring, you know, in the cage after the fight, I said, dude, that was a fucking amazing fight. He goes, he goes, I talk so much shit. (laughing) How many he goes, I have to win. I talk so much shit. (laughing) And then he went, did it again. - Fuck it. - And he does it a little alien to Borey. Is that they're trying to pick fights with him, too? - I know, it's crazy. - Well, he just talked shit about so many people. He's just trying to get people upset and talk about it. That's all he's just pushing buttons. - Listen, that's the Conor McGregor game plan. Like, I mean, Conor did it the best. Chale did it. Chale was the first, really, to do it in MMA. - Chale did it. - Then Conor took it to another level. - But they kinda stayed in, they kinda stayed in their lane. Like, this is my weight class. This dude doesn't care for 135, 145. - He talks a ton of shit. He just wants controversy. He's basically like one of them kick streamers. - Hey. - He's just trying to talk shit as much as possible. - He's like what he's done, though, man. He has put himself, you can fight. And the UFC for a division that the UFC has. - They need. - Man, they need these people. - Yeah, I think Gabe was the man. That's what I think. - That's your nightmare. - That's Mike Tyson when he was 20, you know what I mean? - He's got some work to do. But I'm glad they signed him early, you know, trying to develop him hopefully a little bit. Give him two or three more fights inside the UFC. - The problem is the heavyweight division in the UFC is so shallow that you could see Gabe fighting for a title within a year or two. - Three fights. - Three fights. - Yeah, could be. - Yeah, could be. - He's had to learn a lot though in that process. - 100%. - But he's got John in his corner. - Yeah, he's John. - You gotta give him credit though. He has shown that, you know, first off, he's super fast. - Oh yeah. - Okay, but he's also got a chin. He got kicked up into the head neck area. - He ate that sucker, you know, and continued on. And you go, "Well, he's a tank." - Don't let that happen again, but man, you've shown, "Hey, he didn't let it affect him." He didn't back off. - Well, he's on some Olympic gold most. I mean, he's a winner. - He is a small heavyweight though. Like that hybrid stuff. - Yeah, but that's the best. - It is. - Well, he's 250. - He's just not tall, but he's wide as far as legs. - His legs are massive. - How about when he had that dirty boxing fight and then leapt over the top rope? - Literally. - That's the whole thing. - Like it was a box of tissues on the ground. - The best he's explosive. - The best one was when he had the first one and he hits the guy. - And the guy's out going down and he's taking him down. - He's so double while the guy's high. - That's how fast he is. - Let's go. - Yeah, he's the most impressive of the prospects. But hopefully this is going to excite that. Like when you have a, like every division gochis like he's in valleys and when you have a lull, hopefully that's when people come in and they fill that void. And with Francis out of the UFC and looks like forever. - Which is a shame. - It's a shame. I don't, I tried to negotiate that. I tried to bring them two of them back together. I tried to have a sit down. Dana was not interested. He doesn't want anybody to do with them. It's about interpersonal relationships, interpersonal exchanges that they had that I'm not, oh, I don't know what happened exactly. I just know what Dana told me and I believe him. So it's like you have the best heavyweight in the world and he can't fight in the UFC. Which is to me crazy. I mean, let's do Molly together. Fuck, let's work this out. Let's work this out, bro. - We could do anything. - I mean, that's why I'm not a promoter and that's why I'm not a businessman. But if I would, I would go to dinner with him. I'd go, come on man. I'm sure we could let our differences be a side. Like, he's not a bad guy. It's just, you know, sometimes people get upset. They say things like, smooth it out. My experiences with Francis have always been super positive. A lot of joy talking to him. - Francis has been nothing but kind to me and everybody I've introduced him to and stuff. He's always stressed. He's the scariest fucking heavyweight on planet Earth. - Dude, he's huge, he's huge. - People, I was like, I don't know what's the thing. And we should take and we shot Evans and I and my wife were taking a picture and all of a sudden, there's shadow comes over the top of us and it's Francis with his arms out like. Hey, right? It's like, what the hell? - When you get a natural 265, a guy's ensured it. Cutting weight to make 265. That's, I mean, he's, there was many fights where he was like 278, 275. And we dropped a little bit of weight to make the 260, which is also stupid. Why is there a 265 pound weight limit for the heavyweight division? That's the nuts. Isn't that nuts? - Yeah, I know why. - That was, you eat those really big guys. - It was a Lorenzo. Lorenzo was looking at it saying, I don't want fat guys. Really? That's what, you know, 'cause you had a-- - Well, we're in a really big country. Everybody in love, big country, we're in. - But it was at the time, in MMA, you had no weight limits. - I was lovable. - To a point, love Roy. No weight limits. And that whole thing was, he looked and said, I don't want a bunch of fat guys. We got to cut it off at a certain point, 'cause I'm not gonna have super heavyweight. You know, and he thinks it's never, they never did. - Well, not having super heavyweight is fine, but merge it, it's ridiculous. If a guy is like, value out, remember value out there? - Oh yeah, yeah. - The Russian guy was seven feet tall, fought a weight field. Let him fight. - David, David, hey beat him. Remember that one? - Oh, that's right. - David, hey. - And David, hey is a small heavyweight in comparison. - Oh yeah. - Holy feel beat him too, right? Didn't Holy feel beat him? - No, I don't think, Holy feel didn't fight value out. - I think they did. - Did they? - I think they did. - I think they did. I might be wrong. - I don't think, I'm not sure Vander fought him. David, hey beat him, I know that. - Might be wrong. - Up, there they are, yeah. - Up, that's him? - Yeah. - 2008. - Big crazy. - And the Vander Holyweight was a cruiser weight. Remember when he fought Dwight Muhammad Kawi, who was five, seven? - Oh yeah. - He was a cruiser weight. - I'm five, seven cruiser weight. And he would get underneath, dude. He was like, he was like, he was a nightmare to deal with. - He was a mini Joe Frazier. - Bro, he's a tank. That guy was, and he would pull his trunks way up to here. - Oh, he was a, dude. - Drums Dippel. - Stits. - That was crazy. Oh, Val, you have won. - Yeah. - How highly disputed that's what it is. - Majority decision. - That's where you get fuckin' reference. - That's when, look at the age of Vander. - Yes. - 46. - Which is crazy. - Yeah. - It is crazy. It's crazy when you see these guys that, you know, he's like, "Oh, wow. Yolo Romero can do it." Okay, listen. - No. (laughing) - He is a distinct earth. - Okay, this is where this whole UFO thing comes in. - Right. - And here is the proof of the, yes, there are aliens and YOL Romero is one of them. - Yeah. - Okay. - He is built differently than every other human being on the faces. - I told this story before, I don't know if you guys heard it, but this actually happened when the, one of his fights, he broke it into his orbital. The UFC brings him to a doctor. The doctor says to him, to the UFC, "Where did you get this guy?" And he goes, "He's pretty awesome." He goes, "No, no, no. I've never seen a human built like this before." They said his tendon is in his eye where three times larger than a normal person's. They said the orbital bone is already healing. (laughing) Like, this is crazy. - I mean, no medicine. - So then there's some question. It's like, you know, listen, the Cubans are very connected to the Russians. We're very connected to science. - Yeah. - Well, it's wild. - I mean, you gotta think, if you had a kid and you knew this kid was gonna be wrestling, you're like, bang, bang, bang, bang, when he's coming up, you could make a totally different kind of kid. I remember I read a story about this guy that his son started showing like, Androgenic effects very early on. They were freaked out. Like the kid was, like his dick was grown, he's getting hair. They're like, "What the fuck is happening to this baby?" And they realized that the dad had testosterone cream. So the dad was taking testosterone cream, and he's holding the kid baby. And you know, bear chest to bear chest. - It's transferring. - He's literally juicing up his fucking kid. - Oh my god. Have you seen Andre Smaya? - Yes. - Holy Jesus Christ. - Jamie Post. - Who's that guy? - Andre Smaya, he's kind of a hybrid. He's a body builder, power lifter, strong man, arm wrestler. - Yeah. - He's 350 pounds. I mean, 27 inch arm. - Yeah. - His hands are so big. - It's like catchers' mitts. - Look at his hands. - Have you heard, you know what he's taking? - 2016 to 2026. Look at the difference. 2016, look at his hands. - Yeah, look at his hands' difference. His hands are huge, because he takes-- - Crow pheromone? - Oh yeah, he takes-- - He takes 1,000 units of growth hormone a day. That's 10 vials. - What? - He does? - Yes, he's gonna die. - Whoa. - You cannot take a real-- - Is that real? - That's insane. - Yeah. - 1,000, oh my god, look at the size of them. That's so crazy. - That dude does one arm pull-ups at 350 pounds. - That's nuts. - I mean, he is absolutely-- - And he has a regular job. - He's 27 years old. Look at him, he looks like he's 50. - Yeah, he looks at least 50. - It doesn't even have a factory job. I think he has a regular job. So he's not even doing it for money. - Oh no. - But it's crazy when you see him when he was young. Like, look at that. That's him. That's the same guy. I mean, that looks like a regular athlete. - He is a regular athlete there. - And then, all of a sudden, he becomes this fucking immense freak. - He is. - He must have done a lot of testosterone to those all of them. - He did a hair like that. He did everything. He's done everything the rest. Whatever you got, give me it. There's a lot of those dudes. Do you know about that guy, Tom Havalan? - Oh yeah, I've been to Australia. - Dude, that needs to be six foot eight. - That dude, you take a look at him. He's unique in the fact he doesn't do the normal workouts and stuff right he does basic Farm stuff he picks up, you know things farmer walks when stuff that's ridiculous He does like a lot of picks up axles. Oh, yeah weird shit, dude, but he's six foot eight Let's say 330 pounds more not an ounce of trying to get to four He was trying to get to four so he's in the 390s. He was like this. He's building up to 400 pounds, but shred it Yeah, and and preposterously strong. Yeah, like farmers That's he's always he's always working out when you can't see him Yeah, you see his back and he's always wearing clothes, which is very odd But there's photos of him without the clothes Yeah, and it's almost like he's building a masterpiece and he wants to reveal it once he's done painting See if you can find some pictures of what he actually looks like because there is occasionally they show his body Yeah, he always always takes all the stuff like that. Yeah, fucking bro Yeah, look at that. Yeah, that's fuck it. It looks young Yeah, I don't think he's that old. Okay, I think he's like maybe 30 or something. It's nuts. Yeah, he is gigantic dude six eight three eighty five What the fuck what the fuck now imagine if he wanted to fight MMA and they're like, well, sorry You've got to lose 110 pounds That's crazy Okay, hold on think about this look at that you're the you're the heavyweight that they want to put him against yes There's a weight class Listen, I think this should be a 225 and then should be chaos 225 and then chaos I agree how you view you and let the freaks in Let him them ice land into it I mean some of them some of the most entertaining fights in pride right with the freak fights. Yeah, well, who's the thing? No, that guy's gonna melt your piss cup. Oh, yeah. Oh, 100% so just like you Just like a pride if you put if you put that fucking guy like one of them tester machines It would ding like one of those cartoon things And it hits the bell There would be fireworks going off Streamers coming down chance that guys on the national come up. That's just like pride, you know, yeah, exactly like pride God pride everybody was juicy. They just had the enhanced games. I know Only one real record was broken in the 50 yard. Yeah. Yeah, I don't really that was a 50 meter swim in She's wearing a suit that's illegal. Yeah, because it makes you slippery. Yeah, so it was a guy that had already beaten the world record like I don't know a couple years back Yeah, it's no one really it wasn't that successful and I talked to a friend of mine about it And he was like I think first of all, they're not like monitoring everything everyone's doing they're not optimizing them If you really want to juice these people up You can't let them do it themselves. Yeah, you've got to have like a whole program where you put them on this stuff But also like what are we doing? Did you hear what you hear the reason why they're doing why the whole thing is kind of like Red Bull You know how Red Bull does all the crazy, you know, different stunt stuff and everything their whole thing is they are a They're a company that gives out or you know puts out these Monthly things of TRT and all these different, you know things with testosterone stuff So they did this whole thing as an advertisement Basically for people to see that being enhanced is better and that you'll come and now sign up for it I think it's $399 a month for your whole thing to be at 390 hands program. There you go It's the enhanced program. Okay, so when did thank you Jamie when we had them on Jamie did they bring this up? Not only they did maybe they adopted this later because we had them on like about a year before they were gonna do the games and They were telling I was like let's go do some up juice up juice everybody up Yeah, what about a enhanced fight games? Yeah, my interesting to rebel for a day I mean the whole question is this when you truly look at it because I look and say look as long as you Oh, if you open it up to everyone then it's someone's choice. You're gonna hear all that thing Well, you know you can do it if you want you don't have to do it But it's different when you're lifting a weight or you're swimming in a pool, right? Or doing those things or you're beating on another human being It's just a there's a difference. You're creating damage in the sport of fighting 100% do you want to enhance someone? In being able to do that you're also enhancing your ability to take damage You can take that into consideration You're you're gonna get hit with less shots because you're gonna have more endurance because you're gonna be on EPO You're gonna have that's always good for you to super good. Yeah, the strokes that you get on EPO are the best Yeah, but I mean like I gotta think there's a way to do all those things if you're monitoring your blood work And you're being very careful where you don't go crazy like the Russian cat. Yeah, you know people that's human nature Yep, you're right one step take another. Yep. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, and if that guy has skills imagine that guy Well, oh my god, imagine if you got fade or you broke. Oh, yeah, you want to keep fighting? I got I know you have 49 but this is that's only that's only biological. I can make you 32 again Yeah, we get you in a hyperbaric chamber every day for two hours and this is what we're gonna do testosterone the morning testosterone It lunch to testosterone at night and a little growth after oh growth this all day long You're taking gross from the moment you wake up. We're gonna get you up to about two nine. We're gonna spread it We're gonna peptide you I think part of the attraction to fate or though is his belly 100% you know, yeah, you lose that and I'm like I mean imagine Lorenzo saying I don't want fat guys to fight and you see fate or He did everything he could to get fate or yeah, well, they did they really did know he do I remember those days Yeah, there was it was kind of crazy like the he was negotiating with some dangerous characters Oh, yeah, and Dana's like we got to up our security This is getting fucking just getting heavy with these guys. They wanted a piece of the promotion. That was that was the whole Yeah, everything everyone talks about that. Look, it wasn't it wasn't fate or you know fate or would have fought for anyone And it wasn't the price of what you know, he wanted for money. It was M1 was associated Vadim Ficklestein was Fader's manager. He had M1 and he wanted a co-promotion. Yeah with you know, he said no, yeah, we can't do that That's the one thing we can't do and that was that was the end all right there. Yeah, which is unfortunate, right? We missed out on the greatest matchup of all time between prime Kane and prime Fader. Yeah Prime Kane and prime Fader would have been fucking nuts. Yeah, I mean absolutely nuts Nobody had a gas tank like tank. Can nobody I just talked to him yesterday I came and I was just talking to him about I said if there's one fight you come back for and he's like ah You know, I'm really like he's not he's just he's completely checked out the fight thing But I was always checking him he's doing a great job of training guys to me. He's back doing it. He's not he's not No, he's not just talking. Yeah, he was just I was just talking so I'm at the fight No, he's he's just like no, I'm kind of like just disconnected like it's he's just trying his life back. Well understandable Yeah, that's the one fight. I said if there was one fight I could pick for you it'd be fate or it'd be that Be the one fight. I want to see out of him. We missed that. It's funny because that everyone talks I agree with you completely everyone talks about you know the fight that they would have put together would have been Brock Against Fedor. Yeah, and I look and I go. Yeah, it's probably not that good of a fight Yeah, it's like Brock had such a hard time standing up with that guy. Yeah, Fedor. Well The good example like the Brock fight to me that was like kind of the craziest fight was Owl star. Oh, my juice Ubering Ubering. Yeah, the most I would yeah, that wasn't juice. That was horse meat. That was everything That was horse meat. He definitely ate some horse meat. Oh, yeah, but there was he was not about it. He was also eating pills No, thank God. It was a lot going on, but he was a monster. He was world-class pick bottom now. Yeah, it's like a vegan now He doesn't look anything like it. He looks like he did. Yeah, but he's back to his pride days Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well back to his supermodel days. Good for health. Yeah, by the way That guy's been KOed a ton of times seems fine Like he did the commentary during the Usic fight the Rico fight and it was like guy is fucking talking great He's like smooth and articulate. It's not and not everyone gets affected the same way, right? And it is, you know There is you there's little factors and you can see the difference. There are guys, you know that are been boxers with 70 professional fights They do they talk fine and everything's good. There's also a gene I think it's called APOE4 and if you have that like what is it? How does it work if you have it? You're protected or if you have it You have the problem So there's one there's one gene expression that makes you more likely to get CT. Yeah for whatever it is Yeah, what is it? It was put it put that into perplexity and see what it says There's a gene that you have in your body that yeah Some people have it and some people don't and if you have the whatever it is worth is gene expression I'm a moron. I'm not the guy to talk about this But Dr. Ronda Patrick talked about this and she was saying essentially that if you have this here it is APOE4 appears to increase the risk of severity of chronic traumatic encephalopathy And people a significant repetitive head impacts, but is a modifier of risk not a cause by itself So meaning obviously if you have it and you're not taking shots, you're okay. It doesn't do anything, right, but if you have it Yeah, so scroll back up again, please large post-mortem study of 364 people With RH1 294 was CTE 70 without carrying APOE4 was associated with more advanced CTE stage and higher-tow protein burden in the frontal lobe But mainly in those older than 65 But that's just because they haven't been testing all the MMA fighters or all the boxers And because like if you really you just test in regular folks or football players Probably it's like football players is is probably in the country the most people that have had trauma. - Absolutely. - Because you think about high school kids, even junior high kids. - Before that, yeah. - Yeah, they mean, they did a study of, I forget how many different people, but they found that everyone, it was like nine out of 10 had it in every group. Whether it was high school kids, college kids, some level of CTE, which is nuts. - Yeah. - Not just NFL, not just college, high school kids. - Everything that we've learned and we know today, compared to, from here I'm going to Florida for the Association and Ringside Physicians. They have their annual conference. And they put on all these different things and we put together programs for down fighter things and all this stuff. But we know so much more now. Joe, it used to be, I would go and do a presentation for 'em. And it was one of the first things, when I first did it, I asked him a question. The real simple question was, let me ask you this. If a guy gets hit with a shot, boom. And he's out, going down. And he hits the ground. And the fighter comes in and hits him with a shot. Is it possible for him to hit him with a shot and actually wake him back up? Every one of them back then, no. That's impossible. All it will do is intensify the effects of the first shot, all this stuff. And I took a DVD and said, let's watch. (laughing) - What fight did you use at the time? - I had a bunch and it was a matter of, it was trying to show 'em, hey, all these things that we think are just not true. Okay, we have to branch out and start to figure this stuff out a little bit more, 'cause in boxing, it's different, because boxing establishes time for me to make decisions. MMA takes that time away, because I have a fighter that is now, instead of walking towards, or trotting towards a neutral corner or something like that, there you're trotting towards that person to do more damage to him. And so you're making that quicker decision. And we've had too many fights where we have someone that they're out going down and then hit the ground and you have to actually wait. I just had one last week with Jason Jackson is fighting his opponent, Jeff Kraton and Kraton gets hit and he's going down and I'm going in to stop it and I see he starts sitting up and I go, I gotta wait. And it's like, I don't want to wait, don't sit up. And he comes out, boom, hits him, goes out, I stop it. But it's like, those are the ones that you look at and you go, man, to understand the way the human body, everyone responds differently in certain situations. But we've learned more as far as the human body will do weird things in traumatic situations and it is the ability to hit someone and to take those synapses that are connected and to separate them. There is no difference in being able to hit them and putting them back. That's crazy. They could get snapped the same way. Yeah, it'd be crazy. It's nuts. In the Hermes Fronker fight in UFC 47. I think 46. Please, don't go back too far. But we're in the third round. I catch his leg and he throws a little loopy shot and drops me. I have the leg in my hand and I'm just going, I can see my face headed towards the canvas. My eyes are wide open, but I can't put my hands in front of my face. My face bounces off the canvas. It wakes me up and then I start efficient for legs. It's just, I can see everything. I can hear everything. I just couldn't put my hands in front of my face. And my face hits the canvas. I wake back up and he starts jumping on me. I start trying to fish for legs and trying to get to guard and that's how that goes. Yeah. The first thought to go through is I hope I didn't damage my face because I'm so good looking, right? Jellis. It's a problem. Jellis. Jellis over here. Told you the whole time. But actually, you violated the stereotype. The good looking guys can't fight. Yeah. There was a little bit of a stereotype. The good looking guys, when push comes to shove, they're going to fall apart because they're too good looking. They don't want to get fucked up. I don't think so. Not true. I've seen too many good looking guys go. Look at Rico. Yeah. Very moving to fucking model. Yeah. Beautiful man. That guy came to A.K. and trained with Cain and D.C. for a couple of weeks. That guy's a fucking murderer. Oh, yeah. He's a murderer. And like, when we were talking about earlier about the fight, in him, his boxing is really good. His cardio like he has to talk about is fantastic. But man, he has no fear of being taken down. He has no fear of any of these guys. Cain and D.C. didn't care. He would fight them to the death on defending takedowns. They were like, man, D.C. was the, as soon as they got, they touched gloves. He would just right to the legs. You know, right of all the UFC. Yeah. They offered him Jericho Lewis. But then the oocyc fight came out. And it was like, listen, this is $15 million. Oh, yeah. $15 million. And look what happened. I mean, amazing choice because in most people's eyes, he won most of the rounds of that fight. Go back and look at some of the fights. That one right there, you know, it's the most recent. Look at Francis and Gano against Tyson Fury, and look at the scoring on that one. Go back to Conor McGregor versus Mayweather because no matter what you want to say, Conor won the first couple rounds. Because Mayweather didn't throw any punches. You don't, this whole thing about, oh, your general ringmanship, bullshit, you're not throwing punches, you're not winning a fight. Okay, it's a fight. It's not a dance, it's not how pretty you look. And so you can go back and I can tell you, look, I've talked with some of the judges off of the Mayweather McGregor, I made a mistake. I gave credit where I shouldn't have given credit. It was like, how? I'm interested, you know? It's crazy. I think it's easier for the heavier weights, though, to go up to boxing and have a little bit more success than it would be for the smaller guys. Like, Ilya took part in a fight, Bud Crawford. Oh, no, no, stop. Stop, stop. That's my point. The level of boxing talent there with Bud and it's not, it's not even close. It's not even close. Bud's one of the greatest to ever. Absolutely. Absolutely. But Ilya, maybe it could be, if he just went into boxing. Yeah. I mean, the fucking hands are insane. Bud Crawford could go to MMA. That'd do con wrestle. Right. Right. So I would love, I mean, obviously not going to happen just because of the money you can make boxing is not the same. And also, he's another guy that's like, I'm done. I don't have to do this anymore. I did all that I had wanted to do, multiple division weight champion undefeated by, made a ton of money. See that? Beat Canelo. And box through. The breaks off. The air's off. Exactly. I mean, he was, when he was pity pop punched him and then hitting him with big shots like that. So you do do to someone when you're playing. He had Canelo so absolutely frustrated during that fight. But I remember watching, I was in New York, Gleason's gym. Terrence Crawford is there. And he is boxing all these guys and just playing. Just absolutely, you know, come on next one, boom, boom. And touch, touch, he never tried to hurt any of them. Never tried to throw a big punch. You're just looking, you go, how good is this guy? Is that, you know, one of the best switch hitters to ever do it. In my opinion, it's like him and Hagler. They're like right there to get. It's one of the greatest switch hitters. I think it boxed you South Park and all of a sudden, he's orthodox. Oh, no. And dude, the funny part about him is, you see it in MMA, guys will switch when they take a step and throw a punch. They'll switch to a different, you know, he does the same thing. And he does it and then takes a lateral movement that had Canelo like where the hell is he? Yeah. And he's going, hi. You know, yeah. And you go, oh my god, he's so god damn good. He hit Canelo with a straight left and then Canelo went to counter. And he had the hand still out there and he turned it into a left hook. Yeah. And I was like, good Lord. Yeah. It was so pretty. You could see Canelo's like, here I come back, bang. Yeah. He gets dinged with the left hook. My die is crazy speed and precision and technique. I've said this before. I've sparred with Robert the Ghost Guerrero because he lived in Gilroy. And we would train together all the time. He would use me for the, I'd be in fight shape. Ready for my UFC fight? This matches the Sun's fight. Yeah. Just literally I'd show up. I was the first four rounds of a 12 round session. He knew a new training partner every four rounds. This guy would just piece me up. He would just toy with me. And it was embarrassing. I'm like, I'm in the best shape of my life. But I, by round four, I was exhausted. And he was barely touching me. Because you're working hard. Touch, move. Slap out the sides. Slap out the sides. Slap out the sides. So good. And he wasn't, and he wasn't at Mayweather's level. He's fought Mayweather. But like, he wasn't that level of slickness, but he made it look like it when I was in there with it. It's all in comparison. So good. I mean, there's guys that look, look at Jack Delamadalena when he fought Carl's protest. You're like, Jack Delamadalena is one of the scariest strikers in the sport. And then he fights protest. You're like, oh, yeah. Oh, there is a difference. Levels. That's what you try to, and everyone has this idea. We talk about it all the time, and I go, you don't understand the difference. This much makes in the difference of how you compare it in a fight with somebody. Levels. Oh, my God. Levels. Especially when you get a guy like protest that had so many high level Muay Thai fights. That's the big difference. These guys that own, with only striking, they develop an understanding of positions and technique that's just not available if you're training the other stuff too. And so then they get to this like parrera. They get to this super high level at this one thing. And then they incorporate the other stuff. But that other left, you're not going to catch them. You're not going to catch protest when it comes to Muay Thai. That's step in fucking Tomahawk Elbow that he does. Holy shit, dude. And he's playing. And he smokes Marboros. He's trying. He smokes Marboros in the back. No, it's crazy. He's getting ready for the fight. And he's smoking blunts. What was the guy that fought Delohaia that would come out and smoke and cigarettes? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But I mean, Mayorga was never at the level of protest. Protest is like, is so fucking slick, man. Some of the shit that he was doing to JDM, like JDM is a fucking killer. And he had no success. He was drowning. He was drowning. And it was also like, what is going on with his limbs? Are they so big? like crazy like he says he's six foot one the fuck out of here bro I want to I want to measure your your high and your length Cuz I think so there's some bullshit. Yeah, he's just all like I was I think he did this for his reach His reach is nuts when you see him and then he's like all arms and lips and The technique is so beautiful. It's so beautiful the setups when he when you think he's punching He's kicking a fuck out of your calf and he's like slowly breaking you down slowly breaking and then the knee That fucking knee that comes out like a jab his knee is nuts man. You go back to his fight with Gary You know, and you look at you know Gary was doing great. He that last round. Yeah, you know He came he came back on it and you looking you go if this is five rounds it'd be a real problem Hello, but it also shows you how fucking good he was absolutely now that's the whole point It shows how good he is because he has gone against Guys that are a real problem as far as stylistically You know his fight against MVP. Yeah Gary didn't you know fought as smart as you could fight Yep, and did a wonderful job in showing. Hey, I'm multifaceted. I'm not just, you know This one style fighter with protest when he when he knocked out Leon Edwards I was like oh I I knew he was really elite But I'm like Leon so technical and he's so slick like if it's just and protest is not gonna try to take him down I'm like this is gonna be a very interesting fight. Yeah, but it wasn't It was it was Kyle's protest show. Yeah, he put on a fucking show the relaxation the confidence of being out there Also to Leon understanding like I was the champion. I'm not the champion. It's hard to get back He said he said the mindset has changed a lot. Yeah, it's been hard for Leon ever since he when he lost that that title fight against Muhammad and you look and everything that's happened to him since it's just you know Confidence is everything. Yeah, well the Sean Brady fight might have been even more brutal than that because Sean just malled Them when Sean gets on top of people like what he did the Joaquin Buckley was bananas. Yeah, no it wasn't I look at that and this is why Sean Brady won against Craig Jones Okay, now it was an advantage as far as when but he grappled against the real Craig Jones and show that he can stay with you know in that Poor Joaquin is down and that Craig was not allowed to use leg locks. Yeah, you know that right. Yeah, that's that's it Yeah, that's crazy. That's a big that's like Ernesto Hoost and you only can kick above the waist you know saying that's just your Rick Rufus. That's a smart idea. Yeah Yeah, but you know I'm saying it's like that the Craig Jones like you gotta give him a game You can't have him thinking. Oh, I can't do this true. That's true. That's true. That's a 50% of his attacks But it but Sean Brady on the ground is really good elite But it was just the ability to hold him down was just shocking I mean, it's like goddy and then when he was mounting him it just like he was doing drills Yeah, if it wasn't he was just like staying calm and just bang bang bang It was like he was doing conditioning drills on a heavy bag like he was just sitting on a heavy bag Pounding on the back time. He was broke nuts I said this maybe I caught some flack for it a little bit But I said like look I think the Ian Gary fight and the practice fight for Islam both those fights I'm not saying they're easy fights because they're not But you put you put someone like a Sean Brady against Islam and that becomes a little more difficult problem a little bit more But that's matchups big difference styles make matchups and they really do when you look at someone's style comparatively It can one person is easy for someone or they're very difficult for someone else if you're gonna put someone against Islam as far as It's gonna be on the ground with them and give him difficult times. There's not a big enough There's not a big enough sample size for me with Michael Morales I think Michael Morales could be a big threat on the feet They're gonna say well, you be he beach on Brady so obviously yeah, but yeah, yeah, yeah, but the size I think of Michael Morales will give Islam some problems as well and Michael Morales can poke a wrestle Yeah, it's not like he's an Ecuadorian national champ I think is what he was and then you know, he's obviously got power Islam doesn't do the normal wrestling. Nope his takedowns are different. Yeah, he's a lot of a lot of footsweeps a lot of judo a lot of difference Yeah, and the way he does things and world championship experiences and also the years of training week to be yeah What he does so well as he does it off a transition as soon as you punch you guys in anywhere Inside the clinch. He's already hitting the footsweep into the inside trip can't get it. Okay, I'll hit drop on now a single or double No, I'm excited about it. One seven. He's amiss off. Oh, dude. That Ukrainian cat. Oh He is Absolutely the real deal. Yeah, he is good everywhere everywhere and his His wrestling and his grappling ability his submission ability is at the top of the feet. It's right there with Sean Brady No, no, it is it is I just there's one guy out there though and he was just talking about him He's the one guy that he's lost to who's not signed by the UFC and that's Jason Jackson He's the one guy to beat him. I'd love to see Jason Jackson of the UFC. Where's Jason now? He just fought an MVP one and like 22 seconds 22 seconds I had a hard night. I had 22 seconds and 17. It was very difficult. I was exhausted But he's the only one. He's the only guy to beat y'all saw a fan myself. Wow. He's fantastic on the feet He has a wrestling background, but he chooses to stand. He's got like 30 jobs a coconut stand I don't got a business. He works. He works. He works. He's a work man. He's a working man, but He's very talented. I love watching that guy fight. I think he him you add him against a protest or against eating great These guys would do get out. It would be a great fight It's interesting when there's guys that are at that level that aren't known Yeah, and he's a former champion. Jason's Jason's been there. He was he got a figure He was in the UFC as far as the the ultimate fighter when they did that whole black zillions versus ATT Oh, that's right. He was part of that That's right, you know, and he's just always been on the cusp of being brought back in and then not and you're looking He's got all the talent in the world and he's tough as hell, he'll play he has talent So who is that camp that heavyweight that just knocked out and for air in? Oh, that's Serge Bilestino, and he's one of a Doris boys, right? He is not a J. I feel now. Yeah, that dude. Yeah That dude's the other one he is dude that dude is yoked Yoke didn't move fast. He's fast and he's got power. Yeah, you also got neck cough neck cough said heavyweight Yeah, but if a deep neck coffee is another one. He's another guy that's the top of the heat that's not in the UFC But deep neck cough is good. Yeah, man. He is extremely athletic. He's not gonna He's not a big heavyweight. He's got great lateral movement. He's really good with his hands. He's a two-for-a-kicks Yeah He was a 205 and he's 240 now. Yeah, he can rest he can do everything he chooses to stand But he'll mix up the wrestling to kind of get you get you guessing. He's another fador guy. He's another fador guy Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's another one like we training under Kobyb I mean if you're a Russian guy training on a fador like good lord. Yeah, what a what a crazy opportunity Yeah, but you got to live in staria school. Do you really that's where they live? That's where they live Oh, boy. Oh, yeah. No parties there better of snow tires. Oh, yes, you better Clothing big little things no tires and hate comfort. Oh my god. You're sleeping on a futon bitch Yeah, there's a lot of talented guys that will come out of the promotions But I so I'd love to see Jason Jackson and they're mixing it up with those guys Because stylistically the matchups are there and the practice and Gary and the the ones The Lebanese right now and putting y'all like when the UFC finally signed him I said thank God thank God. Yeah, I mean he deserves to be there and they need you know that kind of a and look He's gone in improving you know to his fight against Joel Alvarez Joel Alvarez is a good fighter. I mean, he made him look Absolutely like he the guy didn't know hardly anything. Yeah, watch the yesterday. I watched it again I mean, you just watch it the last take down you know when he when he airboarded them. Oh my god And you're looking at you and but look at the ease that he did it was. Yep. That's the thing. It's like oh my god It's taking the tightness of his grappling see and his his training partner is Johnny Ebblin Same guy that's training partner now for Sean Strickley Those guys go after each other daily and Johnny will tell you He's the one that gives him the most fits inside the gym the one that I spar with the most the one that just gives me all the fits on The grappling the wrestling all those things go back to his his fights to in the past when he fought Ed Ruth He hit toss everything. Oh my god to get through down three time Out of Penn State. I mean, he was having success against him. It was a very close fight You know, and he ended up winning the fight But it was one of those fights you're like Danny walked away going this guy can wrestle this guy can stand He's got these chasing submissions. He's trying to get finishes. I mean, he had takedowns against Logan store Yeah, six-time state champ out of A four-time American Minnesota and a four-time American out of south Minnesota just phenomenal phenomenal wrestler But he's able to have exchanges with these guys chasing anaconda's darses knee bars everything extremely talent There's a lot of guys that I would love to see to kind of mix in because every time because when you look at the history of the sport You got like strike force when it came into to UFC Those were the best fights and you start pulling plucking I'm not saying that a lot of these guys need to come in right now But if you can pluck one or two guys freeze to they takes this it starts to loosen this whole thing up because for a little bit before the paramount deal happened You know because I cover this I cover it every fight every week right and we talk about it on the pod It's just simply put everyone's like man these fights are trash their garbage This and I'm like guys are being complainers like this the cards are great. You guys are just they're used to that that the next level of like that the Conners and the outs are perfect. Yeah on every card just technique and just fighting ability There's amazing fights out there amazing fights when you add in someone like when Michael Chandler came in There was a lot of hype around it when Patrizio came in and and Aaron Pico and they came in there's a lot of hype around it It kind of put It puts a little shot in the arm in the way class and gets everyone amped up. The fighters that are there at the UFC, they're like, this guy ain't fucking beat me. I'm not letting this ball from this side. - That's good. - So the promotion beat me. And then the fighters that are coming in, they're like, no, I'm here to shoot. I'm here to prove that I deserve to be here. So it kind of, it gets the fans amped up, it gets the promotion amped up, and the division's kind of, it's a little bit of a spark. So I'd love to see that happen a little bit more. - Absolutely, absolutely. You know, the Pico thing is really interesting. It's like his last fight, he looks so tight against Pitbull. He looks so good. Everything looks so smooth. Like, his boxing was flowing. His transitions to grappling was flowing, fought intelligently. Like, that's the Pico that we needed to see. - Yeah, but you take a look at his first fight against Laurent. And I always say, that was a Pico that was pressing. He was pressing that fight. And making, you know, taking chances. - It was obvious. - Absolutely. - And you look and you go, this is the difference between, you know, that first fight in the UFC and wanting to do so well and wanting to prove how good you are and stuff. And then finally, relaxing and just, hey, let the fight come to me. Let me show what I can do. And taking those moments when you get them, that's what he did in his fight against Patricio. And look, Patricio is good. And Pico, Pico could be so good. He just has to relax. - He's still young fighting. - Oh yeah, he is. - He's had a bunch of pretty bad games. - Yes, he has. He has a Borex one. - And that's a problem. - Yeah. - Borex, you had the one against Frickin Corralis. - Yeah. - Oh, if you heard Corralis and then he got, you know, starched. He's had a couple of them. - And both of them fights, he was winning. - Yeah. - And that's the thing is he was winning, he was beating Borex and then he was beating Corralis. The fights that he lost, I mean. - So hyper aggressive. - Yeah. - And that's part of the problem. - That's it. - But he's so fucking good. - But he's got the best left hook to the body since Paul Dealey. - Oh, it's so smooth. - Oh my God, it's beautiful. I mean, his, just his left hook period, it's like such a whip. The technique is so smooth. It's so nice. So I got to ask you about the Joe Schilling fight because it was such a weird stoppage where Joe just decided that's it. I'm quitting. So it's a opponent headbutt, and then Mike Beltron is a great referee, takes a point away. - He did take a point. - And then puts him right back in the same position. - Okay, stop it. That's not exactly what happened in the end. - It's not? - Well, it is what happened, yes, you're right. But when you have a situation like that, you have the headbutt. Mike Beltron calls a stop, calls a timeout. Get some up off of their feet and tries to put Joe, Joe's pissed, and I understand why Joe's pissed. He's saying, hey, first off, Joe's 42 years of age. He doesn't come there to be fouled. He's trying to, he's gonna fight, okay. And the whole thing is, look where his hands are. They're overhooked right now. The other guy's got his hands on the ground, okay? So, you know, you don't want your hands on the ground, okay? So Joe's in a decent part to at least, if he wants to defend himself. So when he gets up, he's pissed off and everything, and then Beltron takes a point from the opponent and asks Joe, do you want to be, you want to stand up or do you want it back on the ground? And Joe picked, I want to be back on the ground, okay? Why do you give your, why do you, why do you allow to make a decision? You're allowed to make a decision because you were the one that was fouled in a normal situation. He said, I want to be back on the ground. That seems crazy. I agree with you. It's not what you would expect out of Joe's shilling. World class, world champion kickboxing. Exactly, yeah. And so, with that, you got to, you know, he's the one felt, if the person on top is the one fouling, normally, we're going to say they're going to lose their position, but there are many grapplers and people that have a hard time getting that person down. And so, we went back to saying, all right, we're going to give the person who was fouled the opportunity to make a decision, normally, we're going to put it back on the feet. But if you want to put it back on the ground, I'll put it back there, but you're going to be in the same position as you were when the foul occurred. Right. And that's what Mike Belchrand went to do. And so, he puts, starts to put him back. You have, Abena is the opponent, and he starts to put his hands on Joe's biceps. If you watch when they start to, when they put him back on the ground, Joe tries to do the overhook, you saw the overhook, and Abena starts to put his hand on the biceps. He did it on the left bicep, right? Yeah. And so, it's not a matter of, you know, Belchrand wasn't there to start the fight yet. He's got to put him in that position, but Joe, once that bicep thing started happening, he got mad. And he said, I'm done. Stop the fight. You can't make somebody fight. If someone says, I want out of the fight, they're out of the fight. So, Belchrand was in a position where he says he wants out of the fight. He started, he fouled me, and he's that's what he's saying. And now he feels like he's not going to be put back in that same position, but he hadn't been, it's not like Belchrand started it. He's trying to put him back in the same position when Joe's kind of just losing his steam and getting pissed off. And so, you know, I'm looking to say, look, if you're going to be that pissed off, it's a good thing you're not fighting because you don't fight smart, and you're going to end up getting hurt. But he's the one that decided that so he has, he clearly has two overhooks at the end of the fight at the, at the time of the foul, he's got an overhook, both sides. Yeah. Well, sort of the right one's not totally overhooked. But he's holding the back of the tricep, so you're going to say, okay. So, that's where he's at. Look where the opponent's hands are at. The opponent's hands are under his shoulders. Yeah. Okay, so that's where he should start. That's where it should be started. But he never gave Beltran the actual ability and time to say, no, no, put your hand here. And you can see Beltran starts to, you know, as Abena starts to try to put his hands on the biceps. Beltran's starting to put him underneath. So, it's not, it's not Beltran to go back to the ground. You know, that's the real question. And, you know, all I know is at 42 years of age, you know, you're looking and saying, you know, Joe Schilling can fight. You know, Joe Schilling, he was a gangster. No doubt about it. And he at this point is, you know, is he looking to, you know, become a champion? No, he's not looking to be a champion. So, I'm taking the fight for what reason, for money. And so, I think he just looked at it and based upon, well, this is not what I expected. I expected a fair fight. I expected us to, you know, fight like professionals. And this dipshit is now head-budding me. He just got pissed and he lost his cool with it. And when he wasn't being put back right away in that same position where he thought the guy is now trying to up, again, take another advantage. Right. It just sent him off the end and he said, I'm done. Right. He just got too emotional. You got too emotional with it, you know? That's a bummer. Yeah, it is because Joe's a great guy. When you fought at the level he's fought at, you expect a certain level of professionalism. Yep. And when you have these young guys that come in, there's no, there, it feels a little disrespectful. Like, you knew where you were at. Why are you trying to gain the system right now? Just head-budding them. Yeah. Which is crazy. Oh, well, there's a lot of people saying, well, you know, I don't think it really hit him. It hit him in the jaw. Okay, it didn't hit him head to head. And you're not allowed to use your head as a striking instrument. It's a foul. And it's pretty clear that he was trying to do that. Yes. It wasn't as simple as like positioning his head. No, try to get it better. Look, we say you can use your head as a steering instrument, as a third arm. You can press with it. You can do a lot of uncomfortable things with it. You cannot pick it up and bring it back to strike. Right. And it was clear that that's what it did. That's exactly what he did. I think it's just very awkward for a lot of people that see Joe selling in his passfights. He's been through it all. And then for him to get super frustrated this way, it was a lot of people question. I'm like, I don't question at all because you expect, like I said, a certain level of professionals. I'm like, we know that we're both going out there to fight and knock each other out. Why do you got a cheat? There's a certain set of rules that we're doing this under, right? And now you're taking those rules and just tossing them to the side like, you know, this doesn't mean something. No, it means something to me. You know, I'm 42 years of age. I don't expect someone to be fouling me just on purpose. And look, the whole, no matter what, that was, you know, right now we use intent. Okay. That was intentional. Right. He did something. I call it malicious. It's a malicious attack on him. You know, you're maliciously trying to inflict an injury on someone through a foul. Yeah. Yeah. No doubt. Did you watch the MVP fights? Yes. What was your takeaway on that? The overall card, as well as the Gina and, you know, and, you know, and Ronda fight. I mean, look, when you're coming in as your first time putting on a promotion, there's no way it's all going to be smooth. It's not possible. You know, it's just, there's no way. You're also, you're not dealing with the same caliber of names other than Gina and Ronda and Francis. You know, the Mike Perry Nate Diaz fight was, what was the last time Nate fought MMA? It's been a while. Probably six years. Been a while. Yeah. Six years. Which is kind of crazy, right? Yeah. And Mike has been fighting Baronucle and fucking people up for quite a while. Dude, he's an animal dude. Yeah. He's, he's, he's, he's. He's found his support though. 2022. Okay. Four years ago. Four years ago, he beat Tony Ferguson. But he's found his way. This is, this is stylistically his, the best thing he could do for his career is fight, Baronucle fight, fight boxing. And this is the best thing for him. All right. And Mike is like uniquely talented at Baronucle. Oh. Like uniquely. He's made, look, I'll be honest. I used him as my, my demonstrator for, you know, Andy Foster is the executive officer in California. And he didn't like Baronucle. You know, I wrote the rules for Baronucle long ago. And Dave Feldman came to me and said, hey, you know, I need rules written for me. I'm trying to legalize this. You know, someone, someone that I knew hooked him up with me and I said, look. I'll write your rules and go, and I gave him two prices. And I said, I'm not doing it for free. It's too much of a pain in the ass. So here's my two prices. My one price. is you don't say who wrote him, and you just use him. And the other price is you say who wrote, and it was because I knew I was gonna get in trouble for doing this and, and, you know, "Oh, what does John McCarthy think he's doing?" Now he's writing rules for that. - Did you write the rules for slap fights? - No. - I don't like slap fights, I hate those. But, so, you can't defend yourself, that's it. It's the only fight in the rule. - It's the dumbest thing ever. So, you're easy, you know. - Have you seen the others? Well, they just run at each other. - Oh, no, it's even worse. - They're like, "Oh, my beer." - Yeah. - You think slap fights were trotted in one of my beer? We're just gonna run at each other. - It's cool, that's what it's called. Run it, right? Those things are crazy. - It's crazy. - But, the whole thing with, you know, the Mike Perry thing is, you know, trying to get athletic commissions to start to understand, 'cause they're all into this thing. Joe, it's like, you take a look at MMA. I'm allowed to hit you with a shin to the dome, like you talked about. You know, I'm allowed to take my knee and hit it to your dome. I'm allowed to take my elbow and smash you, you know, even when your head's against the ground. I'm allowed to do all these things, but my bare fist is the big problem, right? - Got it. - It's kind of funny. - Oh, it's ridiculous, but it's perception and perception is a real problem because people believe what they're saying. Oh, it's horrible. So, you know, Andy Foster was one of the ones in here. I don't, he didn't like it. And I said, "Andy, I tried to say, "and they'll go through those whole things "with the shin, the knee, the elbow." And he goes, "Yeah, no." He says, "I just don't like it." I said, "Andy, I need you to look at it this way, then." I go, "There are people out there "that are made for boxing, Floyd Mayweather, "Tarence Crawford, Conello Alvarez, "they're made to be a boxer. "They have all this technical skill." You know what, they're just unbelievable. I said, "These guys, the same thing in MMA. "There's the George St. Pierre's." You know, you got the Alexander Volcanoski's. You got the, all these people, you know, that are, you know, Islam Makachif was the last one used. I said, "They're made for MMA." I go, "Mike Perry was an MMA fighter." I said, "He's not made for MMA. "He's a tough guy." I go, "But Barranuckel, he was made for." I said, "And this is a guy who can make a living "fighting for Barranuckel. "He can pay his bills. "He can support his family fighting Barranuckel." And become a stalker. I said, "Yeah." I said, "And possibly get, you know, "sponsors and everything that they're gonna make it "so you can live the rest of his life." I said, "And you're gonna say that you wanna take that away." Because of a bare fist. I go, it just doesn't make sense to me. He looks at me and goes, "You're right." The best thing that could happen to him was him leaving. Like, him being released from the UFC? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. You've got an old-timey ring. (laughing) Andy Foster is all in here. In the old way. Put him on speaker vote. You want me to do something? I don't wanna put Andy under a spotlight that. And Andy's done such a great job. He does things that people don't realize. You know, he's now got a license plate that's out for retired fighters to try to get them a retirement. He's got a retirement for boxers already that was set. He's been doing things to try to get a retirement fund for a Josh Thompson who fought 15 times in California. 19, I looked it up. Does it 19? Okay. I'm wrong. 19 times in California, he can get an actual retirement. Now, it's not gonna be a retirement that he gets paid every month or they'll give him a large sum of money that he can then go. He can go to a trade school. He can go to, he can buy a house. He can do these things as a down payment. Andy just put in a thing. It just got turned down because of a staffer. It was Assembly Bill 2130 in California. And that Assembly Bill was no money out of the taxpayers money. Zero taxpayer money. It's about sponsorship. A dumbass like me as a referee has to wear a sponsor's thing on my shirt. That will then 75% of it went to retired fighters. 25% of it went to training for upcoming and in service officials, both judges and referees. What's the negative? There is no negative, but you get these people in politics that sit there and go, "Oh, I don't like this." You wanna know what their negative one is? This is in California, by the way. This is in California. California is the best date for decisions. But their whole thing was, as we both live in Texas now. Think about this. We all, yeah, we all left there. But their whole thing was, well, that would allow the sponsor to say that they're basically part of California and they're running, they're doing things for California. It's like, they are doing things for California. They're helping the people that fucking put on, fucking entertaining fights and things for people here. It's ridiculous. There was nothing good. There's some great people in California. There are. Sure. And there's some great assembly people. I just did a whole thing for Heath Flora, who's an assemblyman there and he's putting up a bill about, you being able to, if you protect somebody other than yourself and from somebody that's trying to do something, he's trying to make it to where they can't civilly go after you. Makes sense. You're doing the right thing. But no, there's people fighting against it. Why? It's just politics. Politics suck. They suck in California, yeah. My dad always used to say, think about the word politics. Polly, meaning many, ticks, blood sucking, little little insect. (laughing) It's a bummer. It's a bummer. It's crazy. And then did you see that co-cress returning to MMA? I did. Give me your tip. I like Scott. I like that. A lot, but good luck. You know, it's $60 million. Yeah. When I saw it, it was only $60 million. I was like, that sounds like a lot of money. Until you think about putting on an MMA promotion. It's hard. And then getting television production. And then paying fighters and then securing venues. And then having staff full time for, like, maybe. You know, you got Tony Hawk with you? Maybe. I mean, look, I'm rooting for him. I think he did great when he was running glory as well. As when he was running Bellator back in the day. He's a really nice guy. Yeah. I think it's great for everybody if there's more competition. Absolutely. MVP thing in the Netflix thing is great. It stirred a bunch of cash into the organization. A bunch of people got more money than they would have ever gotten anywhere else. Awesome. I'm more options, the better. Yeah. I think just, you know, I hope he could do it. Yeah. I think a lot of us, I think a lot of people do because I think as they do grow promotions, right? The fighters get more experience on a high level competition, you need to fight fighters from all around the world. I'm just excited for more promotions to be involved. Yeah. It's good. More options is good. More money is what we really want. The fighters need to get more money. It's always going to be the UFC here, you know, and ultimately it just comes out like you need more people to build up to get to that level. Name a good XFL game that you watched. Yeah. It's not the wrong option. It's just great athletes. But it's the whole thing in there. You're part of it. You know, what you did with the UFC and how you made it exciting for people when you were calling fights. You know, it's a people now, a lot of them, they don't even know the fighters that are on the card, but they'll turn it on when it says UFC because they believe in the product. Yep. Right. And that's what you're supposed to do as the company and for marketing. But the one problem I do think that they have right now is they're unable to market people like they did when, you know, you and I were early in it and so, you know, they now are in a position every week. And so it's tough to market, you know, those, the guys who are not well known. If you're not fight nights, a lot of times, the casuals have no idea there's even a fight night. Exactly. And some of them are fucking insane. Oh, some of the, some of the best of us. We talk about all the time. It's like, you know, the, the card itself rates. If you're looking at it, honestly, it rates of five on paper, on paper, on paper, and then you'll watch it. And it's a 9.5. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're working to get to the top. Yeah. That's why hardcore fans, it's like giving them constant food. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's a given of that dopamine, it's the thing. When you look at it, it's the hardcore fan that the UFC has. But the casual ones, the one that puts it over, and it's hard to get people to understand. You need to get the casuals, the ones that don't watch fights all the time. And that's the one thing I'll give, I'll give Rhonda Rousey, man. I thought she did an amazing job of talking and putting, you know, things out there the way she did, she made, she got people's attention. She did what was her job. Yeah. And they, 17 million people were watching that. That's right. That's huge. That is huge. It's all good for everybody. It's good for the sport. It's great for the sport. It's like, that's what we need. We need more competition, more eyeballs on it. And unfortunately for the cat, you know, the people that are casuals, it has to be a name. You know, it has to like, this Conor McGregor fight in July is going to be fucking bananas. It's going to be bananas. I mean, people are going to go crazy for the return of Conor McGregor because he's a giant personality. But don't expect the same. You just can't. He hasn't fought in five years, right? It's exactly it. It's been five minutes. Yeah. But that's the problem. It might be more because they're going to, I think it is a little over five. It's almost six, I think it might be six at the time of the fight. It might be five. I think it's five. I think it's five right now. Do, do we, are we expecting to see a Conor that look like Nate this last fight? Are we expecting to see a better Conor than some of that look like Nate? Because they did not look good. No, but Mike Perry did. And yeah. Mike Perry look like a fucking murderer. Like Mike Perry is a murderer. It's murder. And this is such a savage. You take a look at that. And when you're taking an older fighter, which Nate is now, and you're 21, you're five fucking years ago July. So it literally will be six years. Yeah. But when you take, it'll be five years, five years, five years. When you're taking a younger fighter. and putting them against the old dog, it normally doesn't end well for the old dog. - Well, the thing is about Max Holloway, like Max Holloway is that much younger than Connor. - He's not. - But the thing is Max has been in constant high-level competition the entire time. One, the BMF fight, beat Dustin, like constant high-level competition. - That's right. - It's a different thing. - And I honestly believe him at 155 is the best thing for him. - Absolutely. - But he's not 155 in this fight. - This is 177. - But yeah. - Honestly, he may be, he might be cutting it off. - Just no way, just kind of walk around. - And also knowing this is such a high profile fight, he's gonna, and Max is always in insane shape, but in particularly in this fight, he's gonna be in fucking insane shape. - And his last fight, he took almost no damage. He got taken down, controlled, back taken, and there was not a lot of damage in that fight. - No, just frustration. - Yeah, frustration. - Bro, Charles was like a mother of fucker in that fight. - He's so good, dude. - He's so good. - Good everywhere too. - And on the ground, he's just so, God, yeah, dangerous. And it just makes you think, how good is Islam? - Islam just smushed him. - I can tell you, he's really good. (laughing) - I mean, it's kind of crazy, though, when you think about how strong Charles's grappling is, and how Islam just, what? - Yeah, he called it, he called it, he said, he goes, he goes, Islam is gonna submit Charles. And he goes, and he's gonna submit it with a head on arm choke. - And I went, I said, Kimura, I went, I said, other one for sure. - I go, shut up. - Yeah. - Okay, just shut up. - He's not gonna do that. - I said he would do it before three rounds. He did it, obviously, very quick. But it was, his grappling is just otherworldly. - And the way he secures that darts by grabbing the forearm. Well, I've seen a lot of guys try that now. A lot of guys are going to that now. - 'Cause you don't have to get as deep. So you just go through and just right at the top and then cover the chest with your, cover the head with your chest and just suck it in. - You see people doing things all, we always talk about, back a long time ago, figure four in the body. We go, don't do that. They step the foot inside. It's kind of, it cranks you, it's bad. - How about that? - They just have the girl do it. - Guiateen that A.J. McKee does. - Oh, the, the, the, the McKeeateen. - Yeah. - Well, that fucking thing, like, how come no one's doing that? - But that's, that's the whole thing. Look, okay, look at what body styles. - When he did that, I was like, wait. - Yeah, his body style. He's so long. - He's long to reach him. - Especially in 145, he's just huge for 145. - Yeah. - He's a big boy. - But, grad Dawson just did the genie choke. Okay. How many times have you seen that done in competition? - The, the, the grappling room all the time. - Right. - Guys doing it, right? - Right. - And all of a sudden, people are like, never seen that. It's like, dude, it's been around forever. - Well, it's like when we talked about Edson Barbosa knocking out Terry Adam. - True. - How did they get to that fight before that was the first wheel kick KO? Well, we've seen a ton of them since then, but that was the first one. Like, that doesn't even make sense. When Anderson's so-of-front kick, V-torn the face, we were like, wait, hold on. You could do that. Like, I remember Eddie and I having a conversation about kicks and he goes, what do you think about front kicks of the face? I'm like, it doesn't really land that often. (laughing) - And then Machita does it to Randy. And then Machita does it to V-tore. - Oh my God. So V-tore's been on the receiving end twice on that kick. - Yeah, man. I mean, there's been a bunch of them now. Now, you see a lot of front kicks of the face 'cause it's such an unexpected thing. Especially if the guys, you know, you're getting hit to the body with it a bunch and you're getting used to doing this and that dog hits you right on the chin. It's just such an unexpected technique. Every time we think that we're not gonna see something new, something new points up. - But the crazy thing about front kicks is it's literally the first thing you ever get taught. When you learn how to kick, that's the first thing you ever get taught. - And the idea of they're being a new use for the first thing you ever learn. It's kind of crazy. - A little snap kick. - Yeah. - It sounds nuts. - I mean, karate, like that's for day one. (groaning) (laughing) - That's it. - Just like that. - Just kicks that. - And that's what it looks like doing. - Well, goofy and shit, the fact that that's the kick that, and then calf kicks, of course. Like that's the one, you know. It's interesting 'cause Cubs Wonson's actually saying that he was the first guy to throw calf kicks. He was saying like, no, no, no, no, go back to like 2011. I was Lynn calf kicks. I forget who he fought. Did he say he fucks somebody up with a calf kick? - Well then I'll tell you before the head was the one. - Vincent was one of the early ones for George Moss at all. - Really? - Yes, he was doing it in Strike Force in 2007, 2008. - Really? - Well, I believe around that time. - If you look at ATT as a team, they do calf kicks all the time. That is a huge weapon that they use. - You go back and watch Mazda when he fought KJ Noons and how he just destroyed KJ Noons. And he was kept kicking the calf to the head kick 'cause body shots to the box. And he just peeped him around. - People might got out good Mazda. - Oh, he was just playing. - When he knocked out of his headwards, the head kick, like people really sleep on Mazda. - Mazda was always slick. He was so good. - When he knocked out Cowboy, when he knocked out Darren Till. - Darren Till? - How about that one? - There you go. - That was bananas that stepped in hook. - Woo! - That was a weight class above when he normally fought up. - Yep, yep. - He was one of those sleep guys. - But he was better when he went up. Just like most guys are. - But he never got the credit he deserved. - Everywhere he went, whether it was Strike Force into the UFC, he never got credit until he started doing things that people didn't think he could do. You know, when he knocked out, like you said, Darren Till, they're running across the cage with Ben Asker, like those kind of things. He had no love up until those moments. - True. - Like I was always nasty. - Always. - Yeah, always. - All the way back to his street fighting days with Kimbo. - Right. - Those videos. - Yeah, some good ones, too. - Yeah. - I want to ask you this because I look at these guys now. What is it with the younger fighters that can't get past the old dogs? Like Dustin doesn't have to retire. Justin Gates, he doesn't have to retire. They're still ranked in number two and number three. What are you seeing on your side that makes you think, like, these young guys, these old guys, they're not going softly into the night. They're not letting these guys come by. Why can't the younger guys get past them? - Well, they've not been able to get past Justin, like those guys. - Patty was not at Justin's level with standup. - No. - Justin's level is like quite a bit. First of all, Justin is an elite grappler. So like, what is Patty going to do? Is he going to take him down? That's not, that's not a picnic. And standing up with Justin. Justin has like some of the nastiest fucking leg kicks in the sport. - I wish I used him more. - I know, right? Remember when he used to throw him from the clinch? - Yeah. - He can type with you and he's kicking down on your legs. And you're like, how are you moving your hips like that? He was an animal. He still is an animal. It's like, he hasn't faded. Justin's not faded. That Fesea, Fesea is an elite world class striker and he beat him up standing. Yeah, he hasn't faded. Justin hasn't faded. He's just 36 or whatever he is, 37. - I think he's losing, but you gotta have a passion for the sport. And I think Dana says, look, if you're not 100% in, don't do this and he's right. And I think there comes that point where it just gets to that. You know what, there's other things out in the world that I want to start doing and things. - Do you think Justin's at that spot right now? - I'm not too sure he's at the spot, but I think he's thought about it based upon some of the performances and the tight fights he's had. I think the fight with Max Holloway made him kind of think about, he had, that was a tough fight for him, all the way through. - All the way through. - I think he lives a comfortable life. I think there's a good life, he enjoys playing golf with the boys, you know, he's another, I know he's like, oh, I spent money, I need to make more money in this than that, but he also, to me, every time I take a look and when people talk about him, I think that he's done pretty, he's done really well for himself. I think he's doing well for himself. I don't think he's in any danger where he's losing the passion of it. - Well, I did the naked gun, whatever, the second edition of the naked gun with Liam Neeson, and we had Camaro Ouzman and Justin Gachi, we're two of the fighters in it, right? And he was a sterical throughout the whole thing, right? And he's such a button pusher with Camaro, you know, Camaro said, okay, let's go easy and all of a sudden, you know, Justin's doing something crazy and Camaro's like, what the hell is wrong with you? And he loves life, he enjoys life. And I think that, you know, there comes a point where he always had that attitude, you know, when he was undefeated. He goes, oh, someone's going to knock me out. He's honest about things. And I love that about him, that he doesn't sit there, he doesn't play the, you know, oh, well, we'll see. And so, he's honest and he tells you, you know what? This may be my last one. And he's thought about it. And if he's thought about it, it's telling you, it's a thought process is there how far will it go. If he has a great performance against Ilya, I think he'll stick around. - You know, unfortunately, I kind of think I'd rather see him go away. I know that saying, 'cause I love watching him. - I would love to see him win and go away though. That's the whole point. That's what I said. That would be nice. It would be all wins the title at the fucking White House. And that says that's it. I hit my bucket list. The White House thing is odd. Um, I don't like it. I don't like the idea of fighting outside at all. There's problems with it. And then it's June and it's DC. And we looked it up the last time, like last year, same day, it was a hundred degrees. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Hot as fun. Then you add the lights. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The lights. Yeah. The tracks bugs. How about dehydration? Oh, yeah. Yeah. The bugs are a big one. Go back to go back to UFC. Yeah. With all those lights. Yeah. We're back to UFC three. See how hot it was. How are they going to fucking do anything about the bugs? Because I know that Dana was talking about that recently. They were talking about maybe using fans. So I don't know. No, it's not enough. Bugs trips everywhere. What are you going to do? Like how are you going to stop the bugs? There's a lot of bugs. That's pretty much all you have to say. That's good. That's good. That's good for the fight. That'll help with the breathing. I just don't think that you should compete in a world championship fight in a non-controlled environment. Yeah. I think it should be inside an air condition arena. It should be a controlled environment. Just like every like you don't ask someone to do any of that. You wouldn't ask them to play a world championship basketball game outside in the sun that would be crazy right you have to you playing a fucking air-conditioned arena, and that's how it should be. - I agree with you, but I understand the whole thing and it's special. - I get it too. - Listen, but it's gonna be a pain in the butt. - A fucking roof, build a roof. Like you've got all the money in the world, right? You're doing this, you wanna do this for fucking America? - I don't know, it's not my money. - It's 4,000 seats, build a 4,000 seat arena. How big is it, get a fucking barn to Minium, put it in there. You know, like we did UFC's, the troops, we did 'em in the troops, we did 'em in hangars. - Yeah, we did, but they want that white house in the background. - Put it in the background on TV. Who gives a fuck? It's just like when world-class fighters are competing, I don't think they should have to compete outside. - Look at, they already put it in there. - Imagine if someone loses a fight because it's too hot out. Imagine if that becomes a factor. Imagine the dehydrated fighters. Like the dehydrated fighters that are now being forced 24 hours later to fight in a hundred degree heat outside. - Under the spot. - Go back, I swear to God. UFC three was in North Carolina. And it was the hottest thing I've ever been in in my life. - It was outside, UFC three. - No, it wasn't. It was inside with no air conditioning really inside. They put, it was a 3,500 seat arena. They put 6,000 people into it. It was, under the lights had to be 150 degrees. Okay, it was, you saw everyone falling out. Hawaii's had the problem after chemo and stuff. You know, Ken Shamrock fell out. They all pulled out and stuff. - It was, Joe, it was the hottest thing I've ever been in in my life. - It was brutal. - You have to ask yourself as a fighter though, is the spectacle worth my career? - Right. - Is it worth me going out there and fighting in these circumstances that I'm not used to? - Well, we did one outside at Abu Dhabi. That was when BJ Penn, and Frank gave it a thought. - And then David Madison still looks at David May. - And that one, bro, they were bugs flying around. It looked like birds. They were so big, I was like, that's a bug. What kind of bug is that? - Can that kill me? This is crazy, you're in the fucking desert, man. There's some giant ass, blah, blah, blah. - You can hear it. - Yeah, yeah, blah. - Make sure your microphone's not picking it up. - It sounds like a helicopter coming by. - You're outside, it's hot, you're in the desert. This is crazy. Why are you fighting outside? - No, because I think I had read somewhere where Habib had said, no, I prefer Islam not take a fight there at the White House. There's too many distractions. You got all the media, you got the, that whole week plus it's outside. These are all things that your fighter is not used to doing. Why would I jeopardize his win streak, his second title? Why would I jeopardize all of that? Yeah, it's like you see everything. So we could fight at the White House. I know it seems great, yeah, I thought there, but at the end of the day, you got to look at it. - I worked so hard to get here. I don't want to lose it over this one thing. I just feel like you could put a roof over it. - I mean, you got all this money. You're making a ballroom? - Yeah. - Make a little, do it just on a regular basis. - I mean, are they making, are they finishing the ballroom? Are we going to get that make your own, make your own apex setter? - Boom, that's true. - Make a fucking barn to Minium. How hard is that? - Hard, trust me, I just finished one. - Did you, oh my God. - Yeah, but you're one guy. - Oh, exactly. - Get a fucking team on the United States Civil Engineers. Get the, uh, fucking the army to do it. - That's a serious thing. (laughing) - So you're going to be at that one? - Yeah, yeah, I'm going to be there. - Allegedly? - Allegedly? - If there's not a bomb that goes off between now and then, move, move fucking nose. This world is crazy. - I love what you did with the Ibergain with it, man. - Thank you. - Way to go. - What was the process on that? How long does that take? - Oh, I don't care what the process was. Way to go. - Thank you. - The process was meet texting Trump literally. (laughing) - I'm not boasting. - That was a long process. - I'm not boasting, I texted him on Friday. He showed up at the UFC on Saturday, shook my hand and said it's done. - You're kidding. - Oh no, I'm not kidding at all. No, I texted him, he texted me back. Are you looking for FDA approval? Sounds good to me. I tell him how effective it is at helping all these veterans with PTSD, people with traumatic brain injuries, all these different things. People, I mean, we have a problem with fentanyl in this country. This is one of the best things that we've ever demonstrated. And like, listen, there's so many people that risk their life for this country. They come back and there's no help and this is the only thing that they've found help it. And it's illegal and that doesn't make any sense. You should have to go to Mexico to get treatment for something that you got because you were defending your country. It's nuts. And so he, right away, he was like, look, it makes sense to me. Like, he cut through all the bullshit. It was common sense. And there was a bunch of people that were trying to get in the way of it. Of course. A bunch of people. I mean, inside the White House people that were trying to get, and he's like, fuck you, fuck you, do it. And he was telling them, just do it, make it happen. And he made it happen. And that's amazing for everybody. Yeah, no, it was amazing that you know what? You stepped up because you are going to be helping so many people. I don't think, people don't have an idea of how bad it is and what that can do for him. So I think, wait a minute, I was like, you always talk about your dummy. I'm a dummy. I always tell people, he's super intelligent. And you are because you got that done. It just proves it. I never asked him for anything else. I've never asked him for anything. Never. Maybe he was like signing a pen or something. He gave me those. Everybody even asked. I've got a bunch of stuff. I've got a pen. I've got a bunch of things. But I was like, if there's anything that I would really ask him for, it's bipartisan supported. Democrat supported, Republican supported. 85% of the country supports it. Especially when it comes to things like I began, which is not even remotely recreational. No, I haven't done it. It's people sick. Everybody has done it. It's horrible. You get diarrhea. But it's 24 hours of misery. But when it's over, you're a new person. Good. And look, I'm Rick Perry. God bless him because if it wasn't for him getting behind it, that changed everybody's opinion. Here you have this Republican former governor of Texas, who's talking about it. And then talking about his own personal experience is doing it. So him and Brian Hubbard, I mean, they really went all out. And when I had them on my podcast, not once, but twice, to talk about this in the state of it, where it's being passed in Texas. They got $100 million from Ken Paxson. So yeah, was it Ken Paxson? No. No. Who is it? Damn Patrick. So Dan Patrick, who approved this $100 million for this, I began initiative. Like, these people all deserve praise. This is like, there's a lot of people that, for the longest time, they thought of psychedelics as being something that losers do. And then they realized like, no, there's a lot of people that need help. And this could help everybody. It could be a good side with the whole country. I was just in San Diego last Monday and then I was in LA on Tuesday. And it's unrecognizable. It's crazy. It's sad. And when you take a look at San Diego, it's always been beautiful beaches in the background. But it was worse than LA. I was in the Burbank area and actually it was a lot nicer than San Diego was. And the gaslight district was just disgusting. It's crazy. What is it? Gas lamp? Gas lamp. I couldn't believe it. I walked into a couple restaurants. You got homeless people stumbling in, trying to order, trying to take food off of people's plates. Why are they there? I'm just like, what is going on? No law enforcement. What's going on? It's the first time that I've went back and I've been back in the last three years. I've been back two or three times a year easily. It's the first time I went back. I was like, man, this is not what it used to be. This is not. It just felt like I felt like for the first time I didn't feel safe there. God. And it's weird to me. And how do you get that? How do you bring it back? Oh, that's simple. You bring it back by doing the right things, common sense things. Taking it. I'm sitting outside having dinner last night and I'm watching a bunch of homeless guys talking to themselves. This is the problem. I was a police officer for 23 years. I've been out there with them. You have people that they have serious problems, and I understand the ACLU and stuff, oh, it's not right to put them, no, it's better for them and it's better for the people that are out on the street just trying to live their lives. To have that person be put into a place where they can receive some medication, receive some help and try to get them back than it is to let these people just rot on the street and self destruct and I'm watching it and it's like, how is that so hard to figure out that it's better to do something with them than it is to just let them be? It's crazy. Yeah, we've lost our way, you know, as a society, and I think a great reflection of that is how many homeless people you have camped out on your streets. Those are the places where they've lost their way the most. And this is unfortunately a lot of these Democrats run cities. I own a couple of gyms in San Jose and just it was 10 city. And along the highway, like leading up to my, along the road that led up to my gym, all those things. But you would see they were stealing solar panels from people's houses and they would put them up on the side wall so they could charge their cell phones. Like they're smart enough to do these things, right? It's not as if they're not, they're just drug addicts. Yeah, that's it. That's it. And then in areas like San Jose, that could help with that. A hundred percent. But things like in San Jose, San Francisco, they're giving them needles, they're giving them drugs. They're giving them phones. It's like, why are we doing this? Well, the other problem is the amount of money that's involved in the homeless industry now. That's right. When you find out that California spent 24 billion in homelessness, what have they done? Nothing. And not only that, but the fucking, they tried to do an audit on it and the governor vetoed it. It's like, no, nothing is needed. Yeah. Why are we so out of hand? It's only 24 billion, guys. Well, how much did they spend on that bridge that had the, for the mountain lions? The end for the. Oh my god, yeah. What are we doing? - Hey, hey. Hey, that's okay, the mountain lions need a fucking bitch. - They need hugs, they need hugs. It's a, they need to wake up. And the problem is that they're in this bizarre mindset, this liberal, leftist mindset that's just not tenable, it's not, you can't defend it, it's not, - That's 'cause it doesn't work. - Yeah, I always look at this, people talk about left and right. And most people are, I'm in the center. I think, you know, it's like a lot of people are. It's not where, but you get labeled as being on the right, if you're not on all the way to the left. - Absolutely, if you're not all crazy, you're to the far right. - Yeah, it's nuts. - It's absolutely just a nutty T-soc. - Yeah. - Well, I just saw something that I can't remember who it was, but they continue to talk about, you know, let's keep taxing the billionaires, keep taxing the billionaires. - And do what with the money, and that's the point though. - So why don't we just not go away? - Why don't we just not tax the people that make under 200,000? - That's actually something Jeff Bezos brought up. He said, you should, the bottom 50%, the people that make the least amount of money, don't tax them at all. He goes, 'cause they're not contributing that much to the tax base anyway, and they would contribute more to the economy if it had more money to spend. - Absolutely. - They would help everybody. - That's right, I think he's right. - I always said 150,000 down. - Yeah. - You don't pay taxes. - That's a great number. - I also thought about it too, as if you were to take, if you got rid of the, you know, 'cause they're talking about this housing shortage and all of the other things. - Why don't we get rid of the low interest rates, you know, 'cause I have like a couple of interest rates on some houses that I have that are at two percent. How do you get rid of those? Well, why don't you just raise my capital gains tax? So I don't gotta, my wife and I, whatever, we can pay less on that versus that 500,000 threshold. Why don't you make it a million? So then I'll cash out on those and just take my money out. And then I'll start putting it back into the economy again. There's all this. - But you're talking like a sensible businessman. You can't be doing that in California. - I'll put your jail. - You can do it, you can do it, you can do the death tax that he did in New York. I mean, look what mom Donnie's trying to do. - Oh, that's nuts. - Oh my God. - The people are just gonna bail out of that city. - It's crazy. - I see, fucking people that think like taxing the rich is the solution and do what with the money. If you were doing a great job with the money and everything was accounted for and there was no fraud and waste, I'd be like, well, maybe you just need more money. But that's clearly not the case. You've got so much fraud and you're ignoring it. And then this Nick Shirley kid, - Oh my God. - When he exposes it, everybody's like-- - That's a good after him. - Yeah, that's a good after him. - You should be praised. - Hello, give that kid an award. - Give him a fucking award. - Here, I want journalists of the year and he's not a journalist. - How much fraud do you think is in this country? - Billions, billions and billions. - I mean, Elon said, Elon said when he first came in, he goes, hey, I think it's close to a trillion dollars. Maybe a little bit over. - He said it was so bad that he didn't want to talk about it too much, he was worried they'd kill him. - You know, he really sold that. - Don't. - Don't don it. - That's wild. - He's not lying. - He ain't stupid. - No. - He's not. - He's not. - He's anything but. - He's not stupid. - He's anything but. - But I mean, to think though, I mean, how much in California they've discovered, or let's just say what? 200 billion? - At least. - You know, somewhere around there. That's not a low end. New York's probably, and Chicago is, and then, I mean, but they've got to do it in all states. You can't just do it in the ones where it's L.A. And Chicago and New York. We've got to do it in all states. - That's gotta be in Texas. - Yeah, it's everywhere. - There's everywhere. There's fraud, and these people were profiting off of the fraud. They were funneling it right back into the parties, and it's dirty business. - Well, you didn't really think that that shovel that the government pays for was a really fucking $900? (laughing) - I mean, there's a lot of that as they get a budget, and they have to pay, they have to spend all the money. - They have to spend every bit of it. - Yeah, otherwise, they won't get the same budget next year. - Which is wild to me. 'Cause the schools operate the same way. If the teachers don't spend a certain amount of money on these things, then they don't get the same budget for next year. - No, why don't we reward the people that actually save the money? - Yeah. - It doesn't make any sense to-- - It makes sense. - That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. What is wrong with you? - Well, gentlemen. - I wanna know, when do you come into my class, though? - You're a referee in class? - Yeah. - When is it? When do you have it? - July 17th and the 19th, he's gone. - What is, oh, I'm not even gonna be in the car now. - Oh, okay. But when are you doing one, where are you doing them? - Usually I do them in Vegas at extreme contours, something like that, 'cause I need the gym to put people in cages with fighters. - If I can, I definitely will. I would love to see it. I'd love to see it. - Is there a location we can do one day? - That way, I don't have, that way. - Look, at any time, you know, you have my number. Text me if you have a question. - Do I do it during the fight? - It's the text. - It's like when you say the way you're doing it. - I get them all the time, so it's not you. - It's a wrap it up, right? - I get them all the time, so, you know. It's nice when you know exactly what the referee can do, what, where they're gonna go. And when you're looking them like, with, you know, a mark got it or a herb-dee, what, when you know, if you go to the club, you'll know exactly, hey, this is what he can do, and this is, this is why he'll do it. - I'll definitely ask you. - Yeah, I promise you. - Stuff at the very least, I'll ask you next time when this should come up. - No problem, I'll have you on speed dot. - There you go. - Maybe I'll put John's speaker phone at the UFC. Hey everybody, big John's right here. (laughing) I don't do that. - It's, it's the one thing that I'm always watching and it's like, you know, and you guys are like, I don't know, I'm like, this is the answer. - Well, I'll reach out. - I promise. - Love you. - Thank you brother. Love you too. - Thank you very much brother, thank you. - This is fun, let's do it again. - Oh, absolutely. - This is always gonna be fights to talk about. - Rick and I. - I live up the street, so let me know anytime. - All right, fuck yeah, all right. - Bye. - Bye everybody. (upbeat music)