JRE MMA Show #174 with Terence Crawford

[MUSIC] >> All right, champ is here. >> Yeah. >> Last time I saw you, I think it was before the Magi-Raw fight, wasn't it? Wasn't it before that fight? >> Yeah, I was. >> It was before that fight. And that was just around the time you were talking about fighting Canelo. And everybody was like, that's crazy. He's going to go up all the way to 168, two more weight classes above that, that's nuts. Everybody's got to shut the fuck up now. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know what I say, skills pay to bills. >> They do, they do. Skills are everything, man. But the thing is, it's interesting. I watched both the Canelo fight and the Magi-Raw fight again recently. And Magi-Rama will look bigger. >> Mm-hm. >> He looked bigger than Canelo. It was really interesting. >> It was a big dude. >> He's a big dude. >> I wonder what that guy walks around at. Because it's not 154. >> Not at all. He's a big guy. >> He's a big guy. >> Did he? >> Yeah. Really an outstanding performance against Canelo. It was like I was telling you before, it was a great, I told you so fight for me. Because there were so many of my friends, they're big boxing fans. They just thought Canelo was too big. They thought it was too much of a jump. He's too experienced. >> Yeah. >> Well, you got it? >> You got it. >> You got it. >> I mean, you made it look, I want to say easy. It wasn't that it was easy, but it was definitive. It was such a clear victory. It was so, at one point when you were pity patting them and then firing off hard shots, I was like, oh my goodness, he's feeling it. >> Yeah, I was in my element. I was in a zone. Mainly because a lot of people was down with me as well. Tell them, I was going to get knocked out. I was too small. I was just fighting for the money when I knew what I was capable of. So I was just like, I'm going to show you what I'm really about because this is not the first time that I didn't heard that he can't do this, he can't do that. >> I think your situation is very similar to when Roy Jones was in his prime. Because when Roy Jones was in his prime, everybody was saying Roy Jones other than James Tony. Roy Jones really hadn't fought anybody. I was like, no, he's just that much better than everybody else. He makes it look like they're not good. If you saw them fight against everybody else, you would say these guys were awesome. >> For sure, for sure and not. I've been dealing with that my whole career. People getting so much praise after fighting a guy that already knocked out if they beat them. Such a such beat this guy. But me, it's, oh, you're fighting tomato cans or you fighting bones and things like this. So it's just like. >> It was just because you're doing it so well. That's what it is. It's just people, they try to find flaws in every great performance. And the flaws, the only flaws they could find is, yeah, but who are these guys that they beat? But you beat great guys. >> Champions. >> Yeah, I mean, listen. One of the more interesting fights to me was the Beneviades fight. I rewatched that again recently too, especially that. >> Because there's so much tension. There's so much shit talking and tension and so many emotions. >> And he could fight. >> He could fight. >> A lot of people, they looking at his injury and he fought no different from before or after the injury. He fought the same. So that's another thing that they're going to say, well, he had got shot in a leg and if he didn't, then this would have happened or that would have happened. I'm like, he fought the same. If you know boxing, then you see him box, nothing change from his boxing standpoint. He wasn't a mover. He wasn't this guy that uses legs as a defense or offense. So I just take it as a grain of salt. >> Yeah, I'm sure that injury sucked, but he fought the same. And he fought well. I mean, he's tough guy. He fought really well. >> Tell me 12 rounds. >> Yeah, listen. But that right uppercut and that 12th round to put him down was like, my goodness. I remember watching that fight live. I was like, oh, there it is. There it is, you found him. >> Yeah, he had good hand movement. Tough guy. He was ducking him hooks and straight punches. So I was just like, I got switched it up. >> Well, also he believed in himself. >> For sure, definitely. >> He came into that fight to win. >> Definitely, most definitely, most definitely. >> It's as beautiful to watch, you get what you deserve. Because I felt like, man, if you retired after this fence fight, I don't think people that are casuals would really appreciate your skill set. The people inside boxing, the people that really know boxing did, but I felt like too many of the casuals just talk so much shit. And so the canal fight was the cherry on top of the Sunday. >> Yeah, it was. And even now, a lot of people saying, well, canelo's washed, he's old. And I'm like, well, I'm older than him. Like what are we talking about? So I just love it. Because it just shows what love I'm on for everybody to already know what happened. And then they try to take what happened and make it a reason why it happened. So I just be like, man, that's cool. >> That's boxing, no. That's sports in general. You're always going to have that. There's always going to be a bunch of sideline people that talk a lot of shit. But for a lot of fighters, it's later in their career, especially when they're avoided or they have difficult, difficult, signing big fights. It's later in their career that people really appreciate them. Like think about Bernard. It wasn't until Bernard Hopkins, Felix Trinidad, the people are like, oh shit. I think he was like 37 or 36 when he fought Trinidad and a lot of people are saying he's washed up. It's over. And when he knocked out Trinidad, everybody was like, okay. Yeah, I've been calling out everybody since the beginning. They created a whole side of the street because of me. I'm with a different promoter. It was always something. And everybody always blamed me. But now look at everybody now. All the promoters are working together now. Why couldn't they work together when it was my turn to shine. But it is what it is and life happened and I'm happy the way it happened because I did it my way. And I don't think too many other fighters can say that. That's true. Yeah. It's a dirty business. The business of promoters and keeping guys away from guys and making sure that their fighter avoid certain fighters. It's always been that way. And it's unfortunate for the fans because there's so many, like the big one for a long time was David Benevede and Canelo. Like everybody wants to see that fight and they just can't figure out a way to make it happen. And you got to think someone's avoiding somebody and it's not Benevede's. Nah, not at all. You know, I just think Canelo, in a sense, he know how big Benevede is going to come in the ring. You know, Benevede's is a great fighter. You know, but he's a big fighter. He's a tall fighter. You know, and I just think Canelo knows like why would I want to get in the ring with this guy that's going to be massive come fight time. And I'm not that big of a guy at all. I've been doing all this with my skills because because Canelo's not a big guy. He's been fighting big guys his whole career. Yeah. And beating them with skills. And also you got to tip your head off to Canelo and what he's accomplished. Absolutely. Being 5'7 going up to 175 and fighting these big guys and actually winning and winning. Not to have covalent. Yeah. I mean, it was covalent later in his career, but it's still covalent. For sure. And then having the courage to fight Bival and his prime. For sure. I think that's the fight that probably kept us from getting the Benevede as fight. The Bival fight. Because I think after that fight he's like, OK, this is a little big. Because Bival not just big, but he's got that Russian style light on the feet in and out, in and out. In and out. It's a difficult style to handle. And then like the only guy to be better beef was another beast. Yeah. So I think him knowing that and then I think the dish respect that he got from Benevede is have persuade him to go elsewhere. But there's been many boxers from the past that didn't fight. People that they wanted to fight. Right. You know, look at Sugar Ray Leonard and Aaron prior. They never got that fight. And that's just one of many. So it's going to be like that. Well, it always seems at the end that it all worked out the way it was supposed to. You know, and that's how it felt like for me after your Canelo victory. Like this is, this is like, you know, all the bullshit. It's like now everybody has to shut the fuck up. It's like all the bullshit's gone. It's like now everybody's got to give you your just due. Because that was a stellar championship performance. I mean, that was one of the all time great performances because it was a Canelo that's, you know, you could say whatever you want. I think he's still in his prime and you just outboxed him and you outboxed him. I mean, think about it. 40 to 47, 54 all the way up to 68 and you outboxed. That's right. 35 first. Right. That's right. That's crazy. Yeah. That's crazy. Going up from 35 to 68. And outboxing the champ and the way you did it too was so skillful. It was so beautiful to watch, man. When you're a fan of skillful, intelligent boxing that was such a good fight to watch. Because you know, canelo's a dangerous guy. He's a heavy puncher and he puts a lot of power into his punches. He's kind of changed over the years and really relied more on his power. But man, he knows how to land it. And when he lands it, he puts people in a lot of trouble and who he just, there was there was this one move that you were doing where you were throwing a left hand and then a quick hook behind it before you even brought the hand back. So he was going to counter and you were throwing a quick hook. Yeah. And I was like, oh, that is so pretty. That is so pretty. Kind of catch me when I counter. Yeah. You know, canelo is a great counter puncher. You know, so you got to beat him to it. You got to counter the counter at times. Did that fight play out the way you thought it was going to play out? Yeah, most definitely. Exactly the way you thought it was. Definitely, we knew what we was up against. You know, when I went to his fight against Berlenga and against the guy that is on his team, I forgot his name. Mungia, Mungia. When I was with Turkey, I said Turkey. He came beat me. Just watching him from 135 to now like live, looking at him. I'm just like, I can beat this dude. Like, my confidence is getting more and more and more. And his last fight in Saudi Arabia, I was like, he came fight like that against me. What he didn't, what he definitely rose his game, but I just believed in myself that much that nothing was going to stop me from getting that victory that night. The fight in Saudi Arabia, he looked like under motivated. Yeah. It wasn't a big enough challenge form. He didn't look like he was in the same kind of shape physically, like when you look at him. He wasn't, you know, and it happens, you know. That's why I always train like, this is the toughest fight of my career because it is every fight it is. And you never know what to expect with those type of fighters that nobody know about. Right. Right. Right. The ones that sneak up on you and, you know, you got to be ready for him. But he didn't come to fight. He moved the whole fight and, you know, Kanelo was frustrated. He was just like, oh man, it's dude didn't come and do anything. Right. It came to survive. Yeah. So I can see where he was frustrated there. Well, he probably thought he didn't belong in there with Kanelo either. Right. So he probably said, listen, if I just keep moving, I can get out of here with my dignity intact and just never get hit real good. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's fascinating now because before that fight, you were looked at as one of the best boxers today. Now you're looked at as one of the best fighters ever. And it's interesting how that changes. How people now look at your body and then they look at Aero Spence before you thought him and go, Aero Spence can fight, man, he's a really good fighter. And a lot of people discredited your victory over him because of that car accident that he had and maybe he wasn't as good as we thought. But now with the Kanelo victory, you, you're in this rare air of, you know, mentioned as one of the greatest of all time. Yeah. And so it's painful of guys. There is no, it's very difficult to say the greatest of all time. Because people want to go all the way back to Sugar Ray Robinson, they, you know, they throw Floyd in the mix, Primetime Roy Jones. There's all these different fighters they put as a greatest of all time. But you are now in that conversation. That's got to be nice. It is beautiful, you know, especially on a hard work that I didn't put in to be here at that pinnacle of the sport. You know, since I was seven years old, I've been boxing, I've been fighting, I've been a fighter since day one. So when people compare me to like Sugar Ray Robinson and Floyd Mayweather and Sugar Ray Leonard comparing me to who we win, who we win, that just let me know that I did my job well in the sport. Oh, you absolutely did. Now you definitely done done. Right. It's over. It's definitely over. I don't got to. So I told a couple of my close friends. I said, okay, since 2014, I've been fighting for something, a title. I won my first title in 2014, March of 2014. Every since then, I've been fighting for titles, undisputed titles, undisputed, undisputed titles, undisputed, like just everything that I've been fighting for. Now and I just come back. And it's like, what's the motivation? Just money? You know, like, already so what is on top of that? You know, because my thing was the money going to come. You know, I was taking paid cuts at the pay cuts at the pay cuts because I knew what I wanted my legacy to be when I finished boxing. I want to be remembered as one of the greatest champions of all time. You know, and I think I did that. You know, so now it's like this last fight that I had, the height of it. There's no better finish than that. To me, what was on the line coming from where I came from, all the odds that was stacked against me, all the things that I had to go through and camp to get to that fight. You know, it was just like, man, you did everything right. So what can top that? I love that. I love when fighters go out on top like that. And for a fighter to go out like you have with all your championship experience, all the way classes you competed in undefeated and beat Canelo, another all time great. I mean, that is a perfect finale for a spectacular career. That's pretty dope. And go out with your faculties intact, your health intact, plenty of money. It's nice. It's beautiful because nobody knows what us fighters adore to get to the point to entertain the fans. You know, we go through a lot, you know, we put our body through a lot. And then when it's all said and done, when our body broke down to the point where we can't take care of ourselves, they don't care about us. They're going to say, oh, well, he was once a good champion and we go to the fights. You see a lot of old fighters showing up to the fights and people just walk past him. Yeah. You know, they're on to the next. Oh, let's see the young fighter, you know, and it's like they use you up till you have nothing left. Then they forget about you. Yeah. And also it's very critical for these fighters to think about their health first because once it's over with, it's over with. And you can't get your health back. Right. You can always get money elsewhere. But once you can, your mind is messed up. Yeah. It's over with. That's such a good lesson for young fighters to see too, to see a guy like yourself be fully dedicated, so disciplined, get through the whole thing, get out on top and done. And so many fighters have said that and then a couple years go by, their identities wrapped up and fighting. I think, man, I think I got one more in me and then, you know, maybe they're buying a lot of shit. That's a real problem. Yeah. It's always going to be that, you know, I got another one in me. I got another one in me because they missed that, that high of all the fans chatting their name and everybody, you know, cameras, lights and, you know, they miss it, you know, but I was always that type of person. I didn't care about all that. I really? Yeah. I can had a light. Just pay me and I go into the rocks somewhere, you know, take care of my family. You know, I never was a guy that wanted to be all up in the media and wanted to be the center attention. How come? Because that's just me. I already knew what I was doing it for. I never was doing it to be famous. You know, I don't walk around with a whole entourage to get noticed, you know, I'll be under the radar. I do like that. You show up by yourself. But one time you showed up at one of the UFC's and someone said you were Kendrick Lamar and they put it on the fucking screen and I didn't catch it because I was doing the broadcast, but I was like, are you guys out of your fucking, you don't know who Terrence Crawford is and you're in combat sports? This is crazy. I think they did downperves. No. No way. No way. No, no, no, no, no. It was just some moron in the truck. Yeah. Yeah. No, 100%. They did not do that on purpose. No one in the UFC would have for disrespect you like that. No one would disrespect you like that. No chance. I was in next to Ter, but I was like, did they really just do that? No, they did not do that on purpose. That was just some dumbass that thought that you were Kendrick Lamar for some reason. Yeah. It was so stupid. And then I think they corrected it later in the broadcast. I don't know who it was. Right. I didn't want to know. I'm jealous. But. Fish out. Fish out. This episode was brought to you by Uber Eats. Big news. Aldi is now on Uber Eats. And you get 20% off your first grocery order with the code new Aldi 26. So whether your fridge is empty and you're too tired to shop or you just ran out of essential ingredients in the middle of meal prep, don't worry. Fill your fridge in just a few taps and get 20% off your first Aldi order on Uber Eats. For orders over $60, you can save up to $20 ends February 28, terms apply, see app for details. But that's you roll very low key like you don't show up with an entourage. You know, a lot of times you just buy yourself. Yeah. And that's unusual for a guy who's achieved as much as you've achieved. Yeah. And he would be so like surprised that, you know, they'll see me in the airport. They'd be like, you buy yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Like, man, this is crazy. I would always imagine you with security guards, big entourage. Right. I mean, that's just a bit. Yeah. You know, you got to pay all them people to be around you. That's true too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, every time you've showed up at the studio, you show up by yourself. Yeah. I mean, it's another good example for young fighters to realize like at the end of the day, what are you really doing it for? All that other bullshit, all the attention and stuff. That's, it's very temporary. It's very fleeting. It goes away. Legacy. Legacy. The glory of your accomplishments, that stays forever. And the respect of people in boxing that really know. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's what, that's what it's all about. And you've got that. Now everybody has to shut the fuck up. Yeah, they do. Everybody has to shut the fuck up. Even the people that said that all canelos did a stop. You were the same people saying canelo was going to stop them. You're the same people that saying, arrowspinster was going to stop me. Same people that saying, magic morph was going to stop me. Yep. And so forth. It's just got to the point where they just, they can't, they got to accept it now. It's like, man, I've been hating on this dude for so long, you know, and he's just being proving me wrong time at the time. It's like, let me just give him his flowers for this, you know? That's beautiful. And for young fighters, it's such a good thing to watch. It's so good for young fighters to have an inspirational figure, to have someone who really does it. Like does it perfectly and does it in a way that is very unusual because like you're one of the best switch hitters since Marvin Hagler, if not the best, you know? And like that, God, that is such an underrated skill. It was so funny. One of the times you were in here, you were telling me that your coach told you stop doing that. Yeah. And he was like, you need to focus more on fighting orthodox, the right way. Instead of switching to South Pole, I was just like, I switched South Pole again. It was just like, all right, well, you're going to do that. We're going to train like that. I was like, all right, let's train like it. Cause I'm going to keep switching because it just kind of came so natural. Yeah. I'll be in there. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then I'll just switch like, I'm thinking, blah, blah, blah. Yes. Man, you know, just I win and I win. He was like, we're going to fight like we're going to train like that. Well, it's such an underrated aspect of boxing. If you can do it because you have to recalibrate where everything is coming from. Every time you switch, different angles are there. In MMA, it's become commonplace. In the beginning of MMA, it was a lot of people would stand one way or the other. And now a large percentage of these young guys coming up are constantly switching because it hides combinations, it hides different techniques. There's so many different things you could do in MMA off of switching because you're switching and kicking, you're switching and punching, you're kicking and then now you're in South Pole and you're throwing left hands, that are right hands. It's like things are coming, there's so much overload of the mind where you have to calculate all these different things. And if you don't spar on a regular basis with a very crafty guy who switches a lot, it could fuck you up inside the cage. Yeah, because some people, they have better chances on one side than the other. You know, and then when you switch on them, it's like off. I hate fighting in South Pole. Right. You know, and just do something today, brain, you know, because they might be slower moving one way or another way. Well, everything looks so weird when all of a sudden the jabs on the right side and the left and then your brain has to like, you got to worry about the hook now instead of the straight. Everything's different. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I wonder how many young fighters are going to see your example and start training that very early in their career now because I think it's the conventional wisdom was that you have one stance, whether it's South Pole or orthodox stick with that. There's a few outliers like Hagler, but for the most part stick with that. But I don't think that's the way to go. I think, I mean, I think great fighters have stayed in one stance, but I think the way to go is having the ability to switch up. Yes, always, you know, beneficial if you can have it and not need it, then the need it and got it. Yes. You know, like, okay, it's cool that I don't need it for this fight. But I got it in my bag just in case I have it. Yes. You know, and that's, that's like me. I got it all. Yeah. Do you think you got to train people when you're done? I'll be training a little bit. I'll be helping out at the gym, but my patients ain't there yet. Yeah. But I get frustrated and I have to remember like my coach, Bull Meg, say, everybody's not you, but yeah, everybody don't adapt like you. You know, so you can't be frustrated if they're not getting something right like as fast as you get. And you've been doing this since you was seven. It's some of these kids that started when they was teenagers, you know, so you got to give them grace, you know, and take your time with them and some of them, you know, they flatfoot in. You just got to train them into they style. Everybody not going to have your style. So when you explained that to me, I was just like, hey, right. You know, let me back up a little bit and just tell them what I see. Yeah. You know, more or so than trying to coach them into being this fighter that I want them to be. Being a version of you. Yeah. Yeah. That's got to be difficult, right? Because everybody does have a different style. Yeah. And, you know, you're, you're never going to convince some fighters to fight your way. Yeah. And the wisdom that you can bestow on young fighters is like, there's a lot of great fighters, like, you know, Freddie Roach that had some boxing matches, but was never like an elite boxer, but still was a great coach. And, but to have an elite fighter to be a coach, it's like, there's an element of that. First of all, you, is it, there's an element from the young guy coming up, like you want to impress. You got Terrence Crawford in your corner. You want to impress him. Freddie McGurk did a fantastic job and he became a great trainer. There's a bunch of fighters that have done it, but it's like, I always wonder because I feel like there's so much you have to offer to these young guys. There's so much small minutia, intimate details of what you're thinking and what's going on that would completely change the way a young fighter sees certain exchanges. Yeah, for sure. And I try to help them on that aspect when they in the ring or when they on the back or when they hit the mits, shadow boxing, just little details, you know, I come in the gym and you see the little kids, they see me and they look to the corner and they hit the back. Yeah, they fired up. You can see they trying to give my attention. I come over there and give them some little wisdom, you know, and they appreciate it. But it's good that they see me in the gym all the time. You know, my son wrestling next door and Naomi over here boxing and I'm both one side and the other side. Your son just want a wrestling title? Yeah, he just wants to stay as a freshman. That's incredible. Yeah, that's incredible. That's so amazing. What does he want to do? He want to go do you want to? Yeah. He told me Saturday after the tournament, we on our way to the Ryan Garcia fight. He said that. I want to go to Olympics. Wow, I said you want to. Say what kind of mind? State is that. I said you're going to go. I said you got to have it in your mind. You going. You can't say you want to go. You got to say I'm going to the Olympics. That way you know you are already programming it, you know, for the future. How did you learn that mentality? Man, being doubted my whole life. And my coach, Mitch Marner used to always say, "Lady, daddy, we fight anybody. They ain't fault you yet, you know, and I just carried that on my shoulders. Like, anybody you put in front of me, they ain't fault me yet. So you can't tell me they can beat me until they beat me." So just like my son, like, "Hey, you got to have that confidence that whatever you say you want to do, you're going to go out and do it. But you got to put the work there first." So in that sense, doubters give you fuel. Aw yeah. Aw yeah. There's a lot of people like that. A lot of people like that. They live off the haters. Aw yeah. They fuel me up. And especially when it's crazy because like, Madgermoth and Canelo, they were so respectful, you know, and I respect them. You know, I've been a fan of Madgermoth, you know, coming from Uzbekistan and learning the bottom and hearing the bottom and I always been a fan of Canelo, like, since I could remember, you know, so I didn't have that like killer, like mind, like heart in my heart. Like I want to beat him, but like, my other fights, I was like, "No, I want Nactus dude out." Like, Ben and V.S.? Yeah. I want to knock him out. Like, so like, even in training, like, I didn't have that rage, like, this dude talking shit, like, he never, they never got into my skin. It was like always respectful, so it was like, I want to what they asked, but I didn't want to like inflict, like pain, like, I want to like knock him out. There was one fight of you fought at 140. His name is escaping me, but you stopped him in the fifth, yes. Yeah, I wanted to knock him out. Oh boy. Yeah. And I was so mad, like, when you watch that fight, you know, I miss like, when they stop that, I miss like, two crazy hooks. And I just like, man, why could not lay it down? Like, he wouldn't want to sleep. That's how I was saying. Yeah, I want to put him to sleep, but you know, it's a sport and it is what it is. And I'm happy that we all could go home to our family and talk about it, you know, years allowing a lot. Yeah. Well, that is the danger of the sport. That's why it's so different than every other sport, which like you legitimately putting your life on the line. Yeah. And a lot of people don't understand that until something happened. Right. You know, us boxers, a lot of boxers have died in our ring. A lot of boxers have went in a ring one way and left it a different way. Yes. You know, so when a lot of fans, they criticize boxers for doing what the sport is for and that's boxing, you know, us boxers like you're not even here getting your brains beat out. So what you consider boring, we consider us doing what the sport is meant to do is box. Right. You know, and I think a lot of fans don't give a lot of fighters. They just do for boxing, you know, like Floyd, like Chakor, you know, when they pure boxers, yes. You know, they want to see people bleeding batter knocked out, you know, but they're not thinking about the after math and the after effects of them fighters going to the hospital, blood on the brains, pissing blood and things like that. Like your body is not meant to be being on like that. Right. They just looking at, oh, I paid this money, y'all going going there and kill each other, you know, and I think that's wrong. Yeah. Well, you're always going to have morons in this world. You're always going to have casuals. You're always going to have people that don't appreciate what they're saying. But like when I see a performance like Chakor versus T of female that last fight, like that was art. That was art. That sneaky jab where it was like half speed and then popping them with the jab and you can see low, low punches couldn't get out of the way of it. And he know what to do. It was beautiful. It was barely got hit. Yeah. It was beautiful. And, and things like that, you know, you see two high caliber fighters, but you just see one just on a different level because his box and IQ, you know, not because T of female didn't belong in a ring with him is just that Chakor IQ and his box and ability is up here. Yes. You know, he didn't have to sit in front of him and try shots and give T of female the opportunity to land a good shot and change the outcome of the fight. One shot, I don't care who you is in a good, in a right spot at the right moment. Anybody can get knocked out. Without doubt. Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, the human brain is not designed to get punched. Right. It's just not designed that way, especially big punches. And when you see a guy like T of female, T of female can crack. He's a big dude and he's a world champion. And it was one of the most lopsided performances ever where you see one world champion challenging another world champion. For sure. I mean, it was, it was art. To me, I was every moment of that fight, like up until the 12th round, I was just like, there was multiple times, all I was like, oh, oh, my, it was just beautiful. It was just, I love watching a guy at the pinnacle, you know, watching a guy where everybody else has got to go, wow, I didn't think it was going to go like this. Because, you know, T of females are super aggressive guy. Beat low machinco. He's got a nasty jab, but throws big power in his punches. He's tough as hell. You know, a lot of people like this is going to be a tough fight. And he didn't run. He stood right in front of him. That's the other thing. He wasn't getting hit and he was right in front of him. I mean, that was art. That was art. That's boxing at the highest level. And I'm fascinated because now they're talking about him and Ryan Garcia. I am fascinated to watch that fight. Because that's a, it should curse a different animal. Ryan looked amazing in that fight. I mean, he looked amazing. I mean, he looked so fast and it was a beautiful fight to watch. But that's an interesting fight. I like that fight. Chakur and him. I like that fight a lot. Because Chakur's a different animal. He did it. He did it with a whole different kind of skill set. Yes, of course. Listen. I went down to camp before he fought T of female. And I seen his focus in the level of intense training he was doing. And I said, I don't know at all, but I know Chakur going to whip T of female's ass. I tweeted that way before the fight. He went out there and did it. Ryan looked spectacular in this fight for what it was. I don't think Bartos came to fight. Ryan was boxing great. The Chakur was working. Overhand right was working. And he looks out at the end and says, you see my Chakur, I said, man, it was working. That Chakur was beautiful because we don't, we're not used to seeing Ryan Chakur. Right. Or boxing for that matter. He was boxing beautiful. Beautiful. And he remembered him one night. He aced it, you know, but when it come to Chakur, Chakur is not a burials. Right. You know, Chakur got a jab. Chakur got hand movement. Chakur got defense. Chakur knows range. Chakur have good legs. So I look at that fight like it's not going to be as a competitive fight like everybody think because if Ryan gets careless, he's going to get countered all day. It's because I think he'll fight very different than he fought with barrios. I think he got to. He got to. Barrios just couldn't keep up with the speed. I mean, Ryan's speed is extraordinary. He relies on it a lot, but I mean, that's not a knock. That's just like if you had it, everybody should rely on that. Of course, nice. Of course, different. That's what I was saying. Well, a lot of people thought Devon Haney was different though, right? A lot of people thought Devon Haney was going to give him real problems when he dropped Devon early with a left hook. Everybody's like, oh, this is different. I wish he didn't have a positive drug test in that fight because that fucking tainted everything. They know they know each other far too well. I think him and Devon fought each other the most. How to all of them. You know, Chakur and Ryan fought as well, which Chakur won all the times that they fought, but I just think, you know, him and Devon, the history of it, Devon came in there overconfident, Ryan, you know, being juiced up, you know, at a little whatever it did, but, you know, you can't take it away from him landing the punches that he was landing. He can't take away from the performance that, you know, he was doing, but when you want steroids that add to, you know, definitely add something. What was he, what did he get popped for? Do you remember? I don't even know. Jamie, find out what he got popped for. I was a very low level of whatever he got popped for. And a lot of people say, oh, the levels, it doesn't, it wouldn't even matter. It's such a small level. The problem is there's a lot of ways you can mask the amount of steroids you have in your system. And that's one of the reasons why the UFC banned IVs because you can flush your body out if you super hydrate with IVs, I don't know what you're supposed to put in the IV, but there's some nutrients that you can put in IVs that will mask any traces of performance enhancing drugs, which is why UFC, you have to hydrate. This is drug free sports policy and you saw this policy. You have to hydrate only with drinking liquids. You can't hydrate with an IV. And when you use an IV, which I don't know, was, were they allowed to use IVs to be hydrate? I don't know. When you use IVs to rehydrate, you can mask a lot of shit. So if he did use an IV to rehydrate and he only showed a trace amount, that's still, that, what did he, what did he test positive for? Lost, which, I missed, but you're talking about. Ryan Garcia. Ryan Garcia, when he fought Devon Haney, the fight got overturned, right? It was in the contest, which is very unfortunate because it was a clear victory. One of his best victories ever, dropped Devon, had him in trouble a bunch of times, dropped him, how many times? A few. Yeah, a few times. He looked fucking great in that fight. And I think, unfortunately, you know, that positive drug test, just, ostering. Yeah. Okay. I think, you know, both of those fights, it's great fights for Ryan. Ryan's in a great position right now. Oh, yeah. You know, he, he, he got the roly, unification fight, you know, he lost, he lost the roly, right? He got that fight that he can, you know, try to avenge and a unification fight. Really? He looked great in that fight. He got Devon in a unification fight. He got Shakur in a spectacular fight. So Ryan's in a great position right now. If Devon take comes back, he's got that rematch. I don't think Devon is going to fight him without having those type of claws. The rehadration claws. Yeah. Yeah, bring him down and you got to do this and you got to do that. So that's crazy. Those, those clauses are crazy. Can't wait more than after. Yeah. It's the real fuck off of that. That's like with me and Kanela. I'm like, man, listen, I'm challenging you. Yeah. You can wait whatever you want. I don't want no excuses. You know, I, hey, it is what it is. When all you got to do is wait 168, you know, and then after that, it is what it is. Well, that's the same shit that Floyd made Kanela do. Yeah. Yeah. That's where they got it from. Yeah. You know, the thing is these guys see that big number. They see those purses and they go, oh, I can fight good. I'll just get, I'll just get a little smaller beforehand. You're just not smart. Yeah. Your body's not going to react when it's not fully hydrated. No. Not chance. It's the worst way to fight. You know, I think guys who cut a tremendous amount of weight, they do themselves a terrible disservice. They really do. I think it's terrible for your body. What's the most you ever had a cut? The most I ever had to cut probably like 25. Woo. That's a lot. Well, wait, was that 35 or 40? 47. Really? Wow. My last fight was spence. And when did you start your cut? Much. Months out. Yeah, months out. So the week of the fight, what were you at? Probably like 152, 54. Oh, okay. That's very good. That's very reasonable. See, MMA fighters do it in a fuck that way. But it was the last couple of pounds is tough. Yeah. Last couple of pounds are tough. And I just knew that it was overwit. I knew it was overwit, you know. But the hardest cut ever was when I was at 135. That was like killing me. What were you walking around that back then? Probably like in the 50s. Like 55. And so would you just lower your calories and camp and then-- And then-- I'm going to change my whole diet. And then the week of the fight, what did you weigh when you were fighting 35? I don't even-- Man, I was cutting like, probably like seven pounds a week of the fight. See that-- In the MMA world, that's nothing. These guys are cut. They just wait to the last minute. Yeah. I know a lot of MMA fighters. They just wait-- Yeah, they wait to the last minute. But mine, I got to start gradually, because I never want to go in there and just like tank. So I got to change my eating habits up months, like two months in advance. That way I can get my body used to being lighter and performing at that weight class. Because if not, you know, you do more hurt than yourself than good because you're taking all the fluid out of your brain. Exactly. And yeah, I couldn't be had no disadvantage like that. And it makes you more vulnerable to getting knocked out. Yeah. Definitely. I mean, Alex Perrerov's the craziest example in the UFC. He was fighting at 185 and he would weigh 225 when he fought, which is bananas. Yeah, that's 40 fucking pounds. I think that's why I got-- When I fought Gamble, when I got hurt, you know, in the ninth ground. But I stopped them in the ninth round. But that was part of that. Boom, call me with a clean shot. Boom. I was like, oh, shit. And till this day, that's the only fight that I got hurt like that ever. You know, a lot of people thought me, machine, driving me, machine, hurt me. I didn't got-- me, machine, him, he was some horror shots, some clean horror shots. But nothing was like that, Gamble. Like my whole leg locked up. And I was just like, man, I got to grab this, though, you know. And you think the weight cut had a lot to do with that? Yeah, definitely. What weight was that at? 135. Yeah, 135. You're a big guy, man. That's a lot of weight cut. It's the most problematic part of MMA for sure. I was actually just having a conversation with Hunter Campbell about that. They're trying to devise strategies to discourage these big weight cuts and trying to figure out what to do. It was crazy, though, because I always been skinny. You know, a lot of people, they say, oh, he's a weight bully. He's this, he's that. And it's like, bro, I came from 132. I wasn't at, you know, you see a lot of these fighters, they and the amateurs, like Sean Porter, he was at 165, then he went to 147. You know, a lot of people, they was heavier than they dropped weight. I was at 132 and I moved up to go at 135, you know, as a professional. And I was cool with the weight. Then I just started filling out once I started, you know, working out more and doing a little strengthy condition and I just started, my body started filling out. So I kept moving up, but the weight that I was at with conello, that's the most comfortable is time of my career to be able to eat whatever I want, not focus on weight. Did you feel much better in the ring because of that? I did. I did because that was the only time that I never, like I had to eat to keep my weight on. Wow. And it's like, I'm not used to doing that. I'm used to, you know, starving. We got portions. It's like they feed me big meals. I'm like, I can't eat all this, you know? But so that was the one camp that it was like the weight wasn't as good. Do you have a nutritionist in camp? And so how do they, how do they do your meals? Is it all based on X amount of protein, X amount of carbs, so weighed out. All of that. Yeah. And then they weigh you, check you, make your body fat. They ask me what I weigh in the morning, every morning. What did you weigh like when you got into the ring? I think I was like 72. Okay. Just a few pounds. Nothing. Yeah. Anyway, I didn't weigh, I probably, a couple of pounds. Yeah. The difference in MMA is obviously the grappling, you know, and that's, it plays a big advantage if you got a lot of weight on a guy. That's, that's why a lot of guys do it. And it's also MMA is very flawed. And one of the most flawed aspects of it is the weight classes. There's just not enough weight classes. There's giant leaps. Like between 205, the next weight class is heavyweight. So it's 205 to 265. That's 185, the next weight class is 205. That's 20 pounds. That's nuts. 170 to 185. 15 fucking pounds is a lot. A lot. That's a lot. Seven pounds is a lot. 55 to 17. Yeah, seven pounds is a lot. A lot of people don't know, but I was way stronger at 47 than I was at 40. And that's 17 pounds. Right. That's 17 pounds of muscle that I don't have to cut. Right. Yeah. And a lot of people think, oh, it's just seven pounds or 135 to 140. Is this five pounds? Oh, that matters. Yes. It matters a lot. And for fighters, there's a lot of guys that are tweeners. They're too big for 155. They can't make the weight. And then they're too small for 170. Yes. Because at 170, you got guys that are never going to make 155. They're coming down from 210. And they're getting to 170. And they're jacked. I know somebody else coming out from 230 fighting out 165. Oh my God. Who was that? I ain't going to say his name. Well, Anthony Rumble Johnson was the craziest one that I ever saw. 230. Anthony Rumble Johnson was 230 and he was fighting in 170. I ran into Rumble once, wrestling piece. He died a few years back. I ran into Rumble once when he was fighting at 170 and he was in between fights and I ran into him at the hotel and he was a fucking heavyweight. He was so big, I couldn't, I go, what do you weigh? Yeah. And he said 230. I'm like, dude, that's crazy. You have to cut 60 pounds, but it was killing him. It was killing him. Like literally to the brink of death the day before a fight. That's nuts. It doesn't make any sense. And they were all doing it because they all felt like they had to be the biggest guy in there. Yeah. Not smart. Not at all. Not smart. No. I think for MMA, they really need to recognize this. That one of the things that's going to stop weight clots is give people more weight classes. Give people more options. This idea of only having eight champions, I think in MMA is very, very limiting. It's also limiting the potential of a guy like you to go up and up and up and up and win championship after championship. In MMA, if you win two belts, that's crazy. That's the only thing anybody can do. That's how weight classes is so far apart. Exactly. The only people that have ever done it have done it in two weight classes. No one's done it in three. Pereira might try to do it at heavyweight. He might try to go up to heavyweight now because he's walking around like 240, which is crazy because he used to fight at 185. It's nuts. But if they had more options and they had more weight classes, I think we'd have more competitive fights. We'd have less extreme weight cutting. We'd have healthier fighters. Just more champions is better. There's a lot of guys that could be champions. There's not a weight class for them. If there's a 20 pound gap, 20 pounds is so much. If I put 20 pounds of bone and muscle on this table and show you what it looks like, you'd be like, "Whoa, that's a crazy amount of mass." The difference between losing that, gaining that being in the middle of that, it's pretty significant. For a lot of fighters, their frame doesn't line up perfectly with whatever the division is. They don't have a chance. It sucks. It does. It drives me nuts. It drives me nuts. I think extreme weight cutting is the worst thing that's ever happened to the sport of MMA. Any sport? Any sport. But boxing, it's not as extreme. No one really does it. Jeremy Clelland used to do it. He got real big in between fights. Real big. He was big. But that cost him in the Nigel Bend fight. I think that probably is what led to his bleeding of the brain. That's probably one of the contributing factors to why he's so hurt right now. That fucked Roy up, too, because back at the time, that was his biggest rival, it was Gerald. Roy was always like, "I do not want that ever happening to me." Yeah, like I say, when you lose that weight and you don't understand you lose that fluid in the back of your brain. It takes days for that fluid to fully return to your brain, especially when you're just drinking the water and not IV rehydrating. It's tough. Yeah, it's, but I mean, boxing's been around longer. They've got it figured out. And unfortunately, or fortunately, the UFC dominates MMA. And they only have eight weight classes, so everybody else only has eight weight classes. California has instituted a bunch of different weight classes, but nobody, UFC has a heavyweight limit. Crazy that is. Isn't that stupid? It's stupid, right? It definitely happens. Talk to these people. I'm just now learning about that. You didn't know? 265. You have to weigh 265. So think about Tyson Fury. When Tyson Fury fought Deonte, he was like 280, 285. Imagine he's got a dehydrate himself. He's got to lose 20 fucking pounds. Just to make the weight class that's retarded. That doesn't make any sense at all. At all. It's the heavyweight. It's the heaviest weight we can go. Remember, value-ev when he was fighting a Vandor Holyfield? It was huge. God. He had to be over 300 pounds. He was a literal giant, an actual giant. Yeah. So, I think that's something you need to talk to Dana about. Nobody listens to me, bro. They don't listen to me. They think I'm crazy. Well, we got to petition it then. Oh, I have a bunch of wacky rules that I want to institute. So I understand why they don't want to listen to me. I would throw the whole sport up in there. I think these combat sports, it got to come from the fighters. You know, just like boxing. I think if the fighters come together, they can make anything happen. The fighters don't understand the level of power that they carried because they think, "Oh, since they cutting the check, they got the power." You know, but they can't cut the check without us. You know, but it's the fighters that need the money that makes it hard because the fighters that already got the money, they can make a stand for something. But the fighters that doesn't, they like, "Well, you can do that. I got to provide for my family. You can take a chance of going at the organization for a year or a higher level is going to last, but who going to pay my bills? Who going to put food on my family table while we doing this, why are we making a stand?" It's a little tougher for them to make that stand than a person that's already established. Yes. You know, and I think that's where, you know, the CSO effect happens with boxing in UFC because they're a lot of. The UFC is more extreme because it's really just the UFC. It's really, I mean, even Francis and Gano, right? Francis and Gano, one of the most devastating fighters to ever compete in MMA, UFC Heavyweight Champion, they couldn't get a deal signed and he winds up leaving. It goes to the PFL, but nobody's watching. Nobody watches. Nobody cares. He knocked out some dude in the PFL and nobody cared. Is he making more money? Yes. He cares. He cares. Well, that's why he did it. Yeah, that's all that matter. He made me down great. He made me a great deal with the PFL and then he got to boxing. Box Tyson Fury, boxing Anthony Joshua. You're well. You're doing well. You're doing more money for sure, which is good, but the fortunate and unfortunate, fortunate that the UFC is the best promotional organization that's ever existed. They really know how to do it. They do it right. They make stars out of these fighters. They give them all these opportunities. They get the most asses in the seats. Every paper view sells well. When there's a UFC paper view, people line up to see it. There's a bunch of stars in the UFC. But unfortunately, when they're in other organizations, even if they're getting paid more, nobody knows who they are. If they want to come to the UFC, they have to take a pay cut, which is crazy. You're leaving an organization like if you're going from small promotions in boxing and then all of a sudden you're in a world title fight and you're in or you're in, you know, Golden Boy promotions. You would imagine now I'm getting paid more money. More people are watching me. It's not the case. These other organizations, like the PFL, have to pay these guys more money because otherwise they can't get them at all. Does everybody wants to fight in the UFC? It's not a monopoly because there is other options. There's one FC, there's PFL, there's some organizations in Russia and other parts of the world. But the reality is, it's like the NFL or like, you know, Q-tips. It's like it's got a name. It's the NBA. Nobody wants to watch some new basketball organization. Nobody wants to watch the, I mean, the XFL. Does people watch it? I don't know. But it's not the Super Bowl. You know, it's like there's one big organization. That's the NFL. There's one big MMA organization. That's the UFC. And for these guys that want the glory, they want to be known as the best in the world, there's one place to be. So it's very difficult for those guys to hold out for more money. It goes back to identity and what you're doing it for. Right. You know, that's what you got to actually sell. Is you doing it for fame? Is you doing it for to provide stability for your family? Is it, I need money? Like, what is your going to find? Legacy. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely legacy. So the great to the great's legacy is the primary focus, almost always. Greatness is always the primary focus because otherwise you never achieve greatness. If you're just thinking about money, I don't think those guys ever get to the level that you're at or the level that like the elite of the elite get. I think those guys have to have their eye on being the number one dog period. That's why I asked what is you doing it for because in Ghana, you know, he's already famous. He probably like, okay, well, if y'all going to pay me X amount over here and they only going to pay me this, then it makes business sense. They go over here. Yes. And that's just like, Connor being, he just signed with Zufa. And a lot of people was saying he's this loyal and Eddie Heres now was loyal to him and this and that and this. He's getting 15 million for it. I'm like, man, what is people talking about? I said, it's just business. It ain't personal with them. I bet. I said, Connor being there was best for him and his family. I said, just like the promotional companies going to do was best for them and they business. If a fighter that they signed, lose probably too straight, they get to cut them. No questions asked. Why? Because now they waste their money. They feel they don't care about that person family. They don't care about that person, you know, relationship with them. They not going in there with a heart like, oh, man, like you a good buddy. They're like, oh, sorry, it's just business. I'm going to teach you. So when a fighter does the same thing that a promotional company do or a manager or anybody else, it's all you disloyal, you dis you damn like. That makes sense. That's it doesn't make any sense in boxing because in boxing there's so many promoters. There's so many different people as Eddie Heres, Bob Arem. This is so many different promoters. Don King. That's the beauty of boxing is that there's a lot of competition and there's a lot of people that are there to try to get you over onto their side. And there's cross promotion. There's no cross promotion in MMA. Doesn't exist. They tried it a little bit in the early days. They sent some UFC fighters over to Japan to fight for pride and they brought some pride fighters over into the UFC, but they don't do that anymore. That was the early days because the sport wasn't big back then. They were just trying to get big names and they were trying to work a promotional deal, but Japanese. Man, they're clever. Like when they sold them pride, they thought they were getting all the fighters, turned out all the contracts with bullshit. None of them were valid. They basically bought pride for, I think they spent $65 million and they got a library. They just got a video library. You have to see it. Yeah, they didn't get shit. They didn't get Fadeur. Fadeur was the big dog. At one point in time he was kicking everybody. He's all remember. Fucking everybody up slamming him, arm-barring him. Fucking people up standing. He was a complete. He was at the same time where Kane Velasquez was in his prime and that was the fight that they tried to put together. But the Russians, because the UFC didn't have a contract with Fadeur anymore because the contracts had pride, we're all bullshit. They had a deal with these Russian gangsters and these Russian gangsters were like, they wanted a piece of the promotion. They wanted a lot. The UFC wasn't willing. They got very contentious. It got sketchy. It got sketchy. They're bad dudes. Those are bad dudes for right. But just as a fan, we were robbed. We were robbed of one of the greatest matchups in the history of the sport. And there's a few of those moments in combat sports where you've got these just top dogs where you're like, "God, we gotta see that happen." For a while, it was Floyd and Manny, right? For a while. And then after one man, well, Mark has knocked out Manny. It took a little shine off of that and then eventually they fought but Manny had a hurt shoulder and now they're going to do it again. They're both 50. It's crazy. You're going to watch it, don't you? I'm going to watch it. Fuck you having to watch it. I'm going to watch him fight Mike. I think that's crazy. He's going to have an exhibition with Tyson, which is crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. Mike is so much bigger than him. He's so much bigger than him. He's not going to land a fist on Mayweather. Right. It's not after his last performance. I think Tyson just needed you. What do you think was going on with that? The last one. It looked a little bit like Sparron. Yeah, I don't know. I think it was scripted. Yeah. I ain't never seen Tyson biting his gloves and like you could just, it was taking all that he could. Not the, like, hit him. It is like, it's heartbreaking to see an icon go out like that. Yeah. But it's crazy also to see him fight at 57 years old. Yeah, it's not. He's still like, he shouldn't have been in there at all. I think it's the most other ways. Yeah. It's other ways for. But what did he get? He got at least 20, right? Yeah, but still, I think, you know, with all that money. With all these connections and things like that, I think people could have put him in the right position to make some money. If he's got people with him that are looking out for his best interest, but you know how it is, when there's a guy like that that's a big name, usually everybody around him pretends they're looking out for their best interest, but there's always lawsuits later on. And you find out someone was stealing money or not paying them what he deserved. There's always a bunch of bullshit involved, you know, unfortunately, especially if you're not business minded, which I don't know if Mike is, but most fighters aren't. Most fighters concentrate on fighting. To be business minded, that's a giant distraction. You got to pay attention to all this other shit on top of that. It's generally not how they think, right? You know, I mean, look at Floyd. Like Floyd spends money. Like it's a tap. Like he's got a tap just, just like unlimited amount of money. Let's money's just flowing. And even as much money as he's made in his career, which he's probably made as much if not more money than any box or ever. Like there's all these lawsuits. Like he hasn't been paying things and he owes money on this and those money on that. And it's like, and then he's got to come out of retirement. Yeah, that's tough. Yeah. That's tough. I think it's just a lifestyle that Floyd lived. Yes. I think he can't fathom to just live a modest lifestyle. Like he got to be lavish. Right. He's got to have those videos where he shows you all the watches. Where he opens the case up, you know, all the money. He got to show that he got a million dollars in his backpack. Yeah. You know, he got the latest watch and latest car and look what I just bought. And when you get into latest watches and latest cars, you get into that shit. Like, boy, that money goes quick. Yeah. But God is like three million. There's watches that are three, five million. It's crazy. So you buy a watch and a car. You're down 10. That's nuts. That's nuts. Crazy. I remember I ran Barclay was talking about that. I ran Barclay when he was in his prime was hanging out with all these professional athletes. And everybody was getting diamond-crusted chains and this and that. And he was keeping up with these people. Like you got to keep up with the Joneses. And he just found himself like draining all his money. He was talking about it. That was the biggest detriment to him being able to save any money. They trying to keep up. Yeah. Which I thought was funny. I was listening to this conversation with Chad Ocho Sinko. He was like, "I was jury-finger." He was like, "Where'd fake jewelry be?" But who would know? What's that? Who would know? No, I know. No, I know. Exactly. It's like when you look at a flying economy, he was sleeping at the stadium. Like, so you didn't have to pay for the apartment. So smart. Yeah. And you know, you know, whatever. But that's a guy like preparing. Like you're going to-- You know, they know, they know, "Oh man, NFL star, he got money." Yeah. Yeah, I know. So we're not going to question if his time is real or not. Well, you really can't tell. Right. I can't tell until you get a mag with flying glass on. That's why they say we got these diamond testers. Yeah. When it test your diamonds now, like, come on out. Yeah. It's just all illusion anyway. Do you fuck around with any of that stuff? I got jury, but I'm not paying all that money for no jury. Yeah. No, we can get some sponsorships. Yes. But me keep spending hundreds and millions of dollars on jury now. I mean, it's just not smart. Yeah. And you don't get out of it what it costs. Like, if you think about how much blood sweat, what? Sometimes you do. What do you get? Now, if you buy from the factory, now, if you get you a Rolex. And a Rolex store, you know, you might can get some money back from it. You can flip it. Yeah. That's true. Now, buzz now is no. But if you get it from the actual store, the protect store, the Rolex store. That's true. No type of stores. Keep the box in the papers. Yeah. It's worth a lot of money. It's worth more money. Yeah. Didn't say investment, but on the mother ones, the chains and stuff like that. No. You don't never see a billionaire with no chain. No. You see it with a good watch, though. Yeah. Yeah. It's just the trappings of fame and also showing everybody that you have that money, the trappings of wealth, you know, competing will as well as getting your own private jet, all that stuff. It's like, I learn from them. I learn from them because the people with the real wealth, you don't know they got the wealth. Right. You know, they walk around playing Jane clothes, knowing nothing. Yep. But the people that have a little bit of money, they want you to know that they got a little bit of money, but they don't have the wealth. Right. So I'd rather be wealthy than rich any day. Are we? Yes. And sneak around. Yeah. Yeah. And keep it. Yeah. That's the thing. Because a lot of what wealth is is never having to worry about money. That's the big thing. Just have that money invested, have that money making money for you. Don't spend it on stupid shit. Live a modest life, live a normal life, you're much better off. Much especially a professional athlete because you have such a small window of time. I mean, a lot of men don't even make their real money until they're a deeper than 40s and 50s. Or the end of the 30s. Yeah. Yeah. And like that Floyd, when he fought De La Jolla, then he fought a Goddy, then he started making some real money. Yes. You know what I mean? That's for a pro athlete. But for most of these like really wealthy business people, most of them, unless they're tech investors, they're making their money later in life. And so you have all this opportunity to keep growing your wealth. But when you're an athlete, you got a small window of your prime. Your prime is essentially like maybe 20 years, maybe 20 years you can make money from 20 to 40. But for a pro athlete, unless you're Tom Brady, 40s the end or unless you're Bernard, Bernard was fighting at a world class level at 49, 50 years old, which is crazy. Crazy. Crazy. That's because he'd take care of his body. 100%. He don't put in that. Super disciplined. He never gets out of shape. Never puts any bullshit in his body. And also that mindset of what he learned when he was incarcerated. Like that discipline is everything. Discipline knowing you're never going back to that. Don't find anything stupid. Don't be dumb with your money. Don't be dumb with your body. Take care of yourself. Never get out of shape. Always keep your conditioning up. So when you go into camp, you're not struggling to get back in shape again. You're already in shape. Now you're just working on your skills and honing everything to a razor sharp edge. I think that goes to like I said before, the people that you have around you. You know that want to see you be successful and the people that you can learn from and the people that you can get advice from. You know when they see you about to do something that you shouldn't do, they'd be like, hey man, we ain't doing that. Come on, let's go. Or they'll call you. Be like, let's go run. I'm not doing it. Let's go jog or let's go to the gym or let's go eat some healthy food. People that want to see you be successful. Not the ones that say, hey, let's go party. Let's go drink. Let's go do this. Let's do cocaine. I think those are the people that you need to get from around you. 100%. The ones that see you doing things that you shouldn't be doing, but that's cool with them seeing you doing that. Yeah, that's also the problem with an entourage, too. For sure. These guys are rolling an entourage. You always got one dude who's fucking up with an entourage. And there's conflicts in the entourage between dudes and you're managing a whole team of knuckleheads. It's like, oh god. You're gonna have to go to the gym so they can roll deep and show up in a place. You have 30 dudes, hop out of SUVs. They're going to go easy here. He's here. Look at that group behind them. I don't need netted ant. That's beautiful. That's a valuable lesson for young fighters to see your example. I'm glad you lived the way you lived. I really am. I really am because I think it's so important for guys to see. So let me ask you this. When you were training for Canelo, what did you do different? So no one that you're going to be fighting at 168 instead of 54 or 47, what did you do? You were different in terms of, did you do anything different about strength and conditioning? How long did you prepare? I know you were thinking about that fight for a long time, but when you were physically preparing for it, knowing that you're going to be fighting him at 68, what did you do different? To be honest, I ain't doing nothing different. Really? It's crazy. Like, all my fights, there's nothing different. We trained for me. Me getting sharper. But I need to work on what I'm lacking in. But the only thing that I change for the fight with Canelo is, Chad, my strength and condition coach, he got me in February. He called me up, he like, "Hey, we gonna get this fight." He just kept saying, "We gonna get it." So you need to be working out now. So this way before I ever got to Canelo fight. So I'm like, "All right, so you come over to my house. We'll work out. We'll work out. We'll come and stuff what you're doing." Just strength work. Just strength work. Like dead lives, like we're gonna stuff. Yeah, dead lives, strength condition, like dead lives, working on good legs and things like that. And just get my body just, you know, back to where I need to be. You know, and he just like me, you gotta strengthen up your shoulders and things like that. And, because quite as kept, I had just had shoulder surgery. You did? Yeah. You know, there's a lot of things that I go through and training, but I don't speak about because I don't never want it to be as skews, you know. That's just one of the injuries that I was coming off of. But yeah, and he was just like, "Man, we gotta work. We gotta work." So it was the shoulder injury? Labor. Labor. Yeah. So did you get it? So it's back up? Yeah. Did you get stem cells shot in there at all? I was just a little bit of a little bit of a little injury on the front of the back. I wish I talked to you about that. Yeah. Could have got you in. Yeah. I didn't get it on my left shoulder. So I tore it both on my left and the gambosh fight. Really? Yeah. And you never got it fixed? Never. Is it okay now? Is it fine? Still a tour? Really? But the doctor said, if it's not preventing you from working out, then they wouldn't advise me to get it surgery. Do you feel it? Does it bother you? Yeah. Sometimes, but not really. It bothered me sometimes, but not crazy. How long do you wait down for? I leave after this. Damn. I wish I won. That was crazy. It was hurting when I was sleeping after the Magymar fight. Oh, really? Yeah, after the Magymar fight, it was like driving. Then it was just like, man, we better get it done. But he was just on me. We got to do physical therapy. We got to do this. We got to do this. And it was just like, all right, let's go. So he was just on me. He was just speaking into existence. He was like, man, you're going to get this fight. I can feel it. I can feel it. So I started training for Canelo in February. I wasn't more so doing boxing workout, but I was just getting my body prepared to go to camp and when I start back to go. So strength work is the basics, strength training. But what kind of conditioning were you doing? Oh, nothing different. Like running, swimming, things like that. And you didn't try to put on any weight. Just tried to be able to work with the weight. No, I just tightened it up. Just tightened it up. You know, with the strength work, just tightened it up. That was it. Damn, I wish I knew that you had a problem with your shoulder. I could get you back in town. There's a place called Waste Well that I work with here. It does stem cells that help so many fighters out. A lot of UFC guys come here. A lot of pro athletes come here. NFL guys come here just to get stem cells. It's like state of the art facility. It's really good. It could help you. I bet I could heal that labor. Probably. Yeah, especially now because you're not going to beat it up as much anymore. Obviously, I'm sure you're still working out. You look great. I'm actually not. No, working out at all. Nothing. I've been chilling. You earned it. I've been putting on my time and my kids and just, you know, relaxing and not having to wear about running and waking up in the morning. Did they offer you a rematch? No. They didn't. Because they offered you a rematch, but you wanted a hundred million. No, that's a lot. All international. That was a lot. There wasn't even no rematch in the contract. There was no conversation about a rematch. There's still having been a conversation about a rematch. I've seen Conello said that he won a rematch, but nobody has reached out to me and said, "Hey, Terrence, what you think about a rematch or anything like that?" So let's put that out there. Is there a number that would bring you back? I don't know. Like, me personally, I can't say it is, you know? You just. You just knocked a belt. Yeah, and I don't know. You did it. Yeah. Did it perfect? It's like, I'm not the motivation. I'm always motivated by competing and things like that. But when it comes to boxing, it's like, I did it all. It's like, I checked everything off the checkbox. So it's like, it wasn't close. Right. I beat them decisively. So what am I doing it for? I think I might have given them one or maybe two rounds, more like one. Yeah. It was mostly. I think it was maybe the fifth. He had a really good. Yeah, the fifth round. Yeah, but other than that, man, especially the ninth round. Woo! Woo! And he had, but he had, but you know, purpose. Did he? Yes. Really? Yes. I was like, man. He was like, sorry, champion. I like. He just got a little angry. A little frustrated. Yeah, a little frustrated, but. Yeah. Like, anytime I'm in the fight, I don't complain about nothing. Somebody hit me in the back of the head or they hit me below the waist or anything like that. I never complain. Because I'm so aggressive, I'm like, it's a fight. Like, they trying to do whatever they can to win. It's up to this referee to step in. Because if he don't, then I'ma take matters in my own hands and I'ma do the same thing. So I don't complain. I'm just like, bam. That's a little frustrated and I was like, man, I. I breathe. Let's get back to work. Yeah, don't lose your composure. Yeah, that's the problem with getting angry, right? Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, that ninth round. Woo! That's when you really start separating. Yeah. You really start pouring it on. I was wondering if you're going to stop him. When the ninth round was going on, when you were cracking him with some big shots, I'm like, whoa! So I told my coach, where we was in there. He was like, you don't got to do that. You don't got to do that. They know me and I'm like, man, I can go for it. And this is just like. They just know me. They know my demeanor. And it was like, you don't got to give him a chance. Just keep doing what you're doing. You boxing is shit out of him. You winning hands down, don't give him a chance. You don't got to box him. You winning. So it was just like me wanting to listen to my coaches all the time because I have that much faith in them. If they tell me to go out there and use my jab, the whole fight, that's what I'm going to do because that's the belief I have in them. You know? And I just like, all right. The last round I was like, all right, let me win this round and separate myself. You know? And I felt like I heard him batting around. You know what? It's boxing. Yeah. Well, he's got a crazy chin. He's got a crazy chin. I mean, it's something unusual. No. You don't think so? No, they say rear heads is hard to knock out. It's proven. Yeah, I googled it. What is they call it? Genders? Yeah, I promise you. When you look at it. Look at how I'm a higher painter. Yes. Yes. When you look it up, I looked it up because my cousin, she's a nurse and she said, yeah, I'm a genders, they're hard to put to sleep, even when you give them the aesthetics to go to sleep. Really? Yeah. Interesting. And the steezy. Red heads often possess unique pain profile, generally exhibiting a higher threshold for specific types of pain like heat or pressure, but requiring 19 to 20% more general anesthesia. Wow. Or higher, 19 to 20% is a lot. Or higher doses of certain anesthetics to reach the same level of comfort. That's crazy. And largely due to the mutated MC1R gene, which affects nerve sensitivity can lead to increased sensitivity to pain and paradoxical increased sensitivity to some opioids. Interesting. Interesting. Increased sensitivity to opioids is interesting. When she told me that, I googled it and I was like, damn, this white cadello, you know, it could take so many good shots. That does make sense. Well, you know, Neanderthal supposedly had red hair. So maybe like red heads have more Neanderthal genes. Probably. You know, the Neanderthals were brutally strong. I thought she was playing. I thought she was playing that first. That's crazy. She was like, man, we'll be trying to put them to sleep. It'd be harder to put them to sleep than normal people. So I started googling and I like, fucking right. 19 to 20% is nuts. That's a lot. It's different from killing someone and them just going to sleep. Like, you give them an extra 20%. They might not wake up. That's crazy. 19 to 20% is wild. Well, I was talking to Jim Lampley and I didn't know this, but Cadello has always been riding horses since he was young. That's go for his balance. Yeah. And legs. And legs. Yeah. It's his base. That's a big part of it. Also, he's got that thick fucking neck, big square head. Like he been doing an iron neck all over. So his knee and his pulse have a different mutation that actually gives them more sensitivity to patent. Interesting. More human's humans. More sensitivity. Lower threshold. Interesting. That's like the opposite. Wow. Even though they're red headed. Yeah. So he wanted him. He wanted him. He got the one. Well, those becks get red heads. Yeah. It's wild. That's crazy. But yeah, I never thought the horse thing, like Lampley was explaining. It was like, yeah, the balance and the legs because you're constantly squeezing down on that horse and you're constantly adjusting and you're core and everything. Oh, I never even thought of that. I would just think, fucking why you riding horses when you're a world champion? Don't do that. People fall off horses. They break their fucking neck. Don't do that. Yeah. I seen a guy break his arm. They wanted me to take a picture on the horse and my bro, man, he was like, I don't know about these fucking horses. These horses be crazy. I said, man, I wrote horse before he was like, yeah, but it's a lot of people around and he asked the guy about the horses and the other guy was like, yeah, he can get on this horse. So I get on the horse. I take the horse. I take the picture and I get off. No longer than like 10 minutes. This guy on his own horse, his horse just put go crazy. Buck them off. Boom. He broke his arm. This in the parade and the horse is just running wild. I'm like, he says, see, see, just while I was telling you, he was going crazy. It was like, see, I told you this was the horse. But it wasn't the same horse. It was a different horse. Yeah. But he was just like, see, that's why I was telling you these horses be fucking crazy. Yeah, you just never know with animals. My oldest daughter got into horses for a while. One of her friends just do those things where the horse jumps over a thing and they have a whole obstacle course. She was getting into that and she fell once and she was okay and she fell a second time. She heard a wrist pretty bad. I was like, you got to stop. You can't be doing this. This is too dangerous. Because those kind of injuries, you get fallen off a horse, especially if you get stomped. Those are life changing. Especially if you get tied up. I didn't see videos of people getting bucked and they lay. They just ragged all the people. Be the, get stomped in the head. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, horses, fuck that. Fuck that. I know quite a few people that are falling off horses and been okay, but why do it? Yeah. Yeah. Texas Ranger. Everybody wants to be cowboy. They watch Yellowstone two and a half. I want to be a cowboy. Yeah. It's funny. We were talking to Andre Ward on the phone today when you had Andre on FaceTime and you were talking about burbles. Yeah. But I've been going down this Burberry rabbit hole. Those, those mastiffs. I'm fascinated by them, man. South African mastiffs, they used to keep lions on hyenas away from the farms. You know, and we were talking about coyotes. Like you got land now. You know, you're just, you're relaxed in now. So I like it separated from everything, got some space. Yeah, I bought it. It's crazy because when I was building a house, you know, a lot of people was like, oh, he's building a house on the aerospace money and this and that and this. I'm like, dude, do you know how long the process is of building houses? Like this is not no week or two, two month deal, you know, I mean, like, I bought years. Yeah. And you designed to the beginning of construction. Yeah. Show you got to go pick out every fucking thing in the house. You know, I bought that land in 2016. Oh, really? Yeah. Wow. And I'm just was sitting on it. It was a house that they're already, you know, I had it run out to one of my buddies, my best friend at that, you know, and when the time came, I had more kids. So, you know, it was better that I waited than the build then. So, I just was like, man, it's time, you know, it's more peaceful out there. The kids, they ride the four wheelers out there where we can shoot out there. Nice. We can do whatever we want out there. And it's just, you know, peaceful to wake up to the sunrise and, you know, the nature calling. Yeah. And you know, like, that's the dream. Definitely the dream. Yeah, for a lot of people, that's nice. That's nice. That's nice. It's nice to see someone just setting their life up right. Yeah. You know, I'm just amazed that you don't get the itch at all. I'm more competitive in other sports, you know, like what? Like basketball, football, I'm anything, I ain't really anything I do is like, I gotta compete. I gotta compete. Darts, pool, like whatever. You remember I came in here like, you want to play pool? You're like, let's do it. I like, you know, I'll just play. You can't kick my ass, okay? I heard that she was good. I fucked like, sluice up. Yeah, I was talking a lot of shit. I heard that, sluice never got a shot. I read the cracks on him. Yeah, I came, like we're done. I came in here, uh, pump faking you. I knew it though. I knew it though. I already know it. Yeah, I knew it right away. I just like to have fun, you know, well, everyone who is an elite athlete is insanely competitive. You know, that's the problem though, is unfortunately some of them get involved in gambling, you know, like that's the Michael Jordan. That's what we were just talking about, man. It was like, you get my semi, I ain't never get good for you. I'm still a fucker with it. A lot of people was always actually, you don't get more in your fights. I don't get more in your fights. I don't gamble at all. Good for you. You know, it was like, oh, well, we see you, when you get bored on the streamer, you know, I ain't in Ross. What did you do? What was that? He begged me 10,000 at TFFM. It was going to whoop Shakur. Oh, that's a crazy bad. You know, I mean, so it was just like, that's silly bad. He called me out on, or, or live, you know, stream. So I'm never going to back down from that. Like, of course, I'm riding with Shakur until the world's fall off. That's also like, if, if I was making odds, I'm putting like a six to one. Yeah. That's a crazy flat out bet. You're not even getting any odds on the money and you're putting it on TFM. No disrespect to TFFM, but I think that Shakur is, he has the potential to be in all time great. Yeah, he will be. I believe so. He will be. All he got to do is keep doing what he wants. Stay focused. Yeah. That's it. Is this with, with fighters like Shakur, Devon, it's all about staying focused. You know, when these young fighters get to the pinnacle of boxing and they got everything that they disposal, sometimes they get caught up in the lime light and the things that really don't matter. You know, and long as they stay focused and keep their eye on the prize of where they want to go and where they want their legacy to land, they're going to be just fine. Because it's easy for them to get caught up and want to be a fan pleasing fighter. You know, listening to the masses, all they need to fight like this or I don't want to see on fight because all they do is run or all they do is fight like this and they pity Pat, they ain't got no power or this and that. It's boxing. They win. All they got to do is keep winning. That's it. Well, look at Floyd later in his life. Like Floyd later in his life fought so safe, but yet made so much money because he talked so much shit that people were spending money hoping he was going to lose. And he's not the first one to do that. Tyson. Yeah. Roy Jones Jr. Yeah. Muhammad Ali. And I always, I said this when I was with Todd Green, I said, why isn't only the black fighters that got to talk shit to to sell like what MMA? It's white fighters too. Conor McGregor. No, no, no, Conor McGregor. You know, I say he won us. You know, because they was treated like black people over there where he from. You know, a lot of people don't know that. Oh, yeah, a lot of Irish. You know, they was they was treated just like us. So, you know, I consider him one of us, you know, but at the same time, you know, in boxing, there's always the black fighters got to be the ones that step out and play this circus role and, you know, be the be the one that talked shit and have everybody hate them. But the ones that don't like Andre Ward, Terrence Crawford, Tim Bradley, you know, they boring or they can't sell things like that. Is you judging me for what I say or what I do in a ring? Well, this is the difference with casuals versus people that really appreciate excellent boxing. Conor knock people out. Of course. That's what people will see. They want to see action. I'm going to give them action. But I think for casuals, they want to see a lot of shit talking to for some reason. They want to get emotionally wrapped up in your conflict with this other person. But they pick and choose. They do sometimes. Yeah, they do sometimes. But I mean, like look Tyson Fury talks a lot shit. Or yeah. And obviously one of the greatest of all time. You know, he talks a lot of shit, sold a lot of tickets, you know, singing and shit. Yeah. After the fights, that guy's great. And his draws. And his draws and his cut. Legendary. He's a legend. He's a legend. I mean, that guy. But he from a different country. Sure. Yeah. I mean, so you got to understand like he bringing those people over here and they want to support him when losing the draw. You know, when we went over to the UK and we watched American fight kill, bro, it was a electric fire. And those guys had losses being both stopped and all that, you know, but those people came out to support like a motherfucker. Oh, yeah. And I left and I left that arena like God damn. And I wish I was, you know, from the UK, you know, like because the way they support boxing, they don't look at all since you lost, you know, we're not going to support you. They look at all these warriors and we're not going to stop supporting them because they lost. That is true. That is true about the UK America. They like man, you got your ass well onto the next. Your bum, you washed, you ain't as good as you said you was or we thought you was. And it's just like they, they chew you up and spit you out and it's like, God damn, you know how hard it is to stay at the top of a sport that everybody's gunning from you. You know, that's, that shit hard like, yeah, that's the culture of America though, right? It's a bit of a problem. Yeah, it disgusts me with fighting. It's not like the UFC though. It is not so much. There's plenty of plenty of people. It's not as important to me. How about to say it's when he like a couple of people in the UFC that was undefeated. Very few. You know, you got to be you got John Jones, he had that one little loss. That's a bullshit. Yeah, but everybody knows that bullshit. My boy, so who though he just finally lost with not too long. He lost a bunch of times. He lost to Mighty Mouse early on and he came back and beat Mighty Mouse to win his first title. But like, most everybody else be having like five losses and stuff like that and maybe at the top of the top. You know, and everybody still support him, but nobody go, oh, he got five losses. He trash. He does that. No, that's true. Maybe it was off night. There's something to that because I think it's more difficult to not lose in MMA. There's just too many different styles. There's too many different approaches, too many variables. It's also so difficult to not be hurt in training before you fight. When you're grappling, kicking legs, elbows, all that shit, training, you know, you're manipulating joints. There's so many different things that can get fucked up. We think about all the things that get fucked up just with your hands, just boxing, shoulders, back, knees, ribs, yeah. And neck, yeah, neck, sure. Yeah. And then add, get dumped on your head, add, you know, get need in the face, add, get your legs kicked, knees buckled. Toes broke. Toes broke. Yeah. I mean, Pereira fought a world title fight with a broken toe. Yeah. Just came in and fought with it. And afterwards, toes all fucked up. Crugged inside and he like, adjust it. Pops it anyways. Yeah. It's tough for them for combat sports, you know. And people don't know, like I said, they don't know what we got to. We are never walking a world class fight, you know, the same or 100% healthy. Like everybody just be like, oh man, I'm 100% not a fuck you. It's not possible. There's always going to be something that's bothering. Yeah. If you're going through a 10 week camp, how was how how is it even possible? Yeah. To not something if they bullshit, but it's going to show in the fight. Right. It shows it a fight. But don't they everybody always say nobody says I'm pretty fucked up going into this fight, but I'm hoping it works out. Nobody says that. Nobody said no. I mean, it's just that's the game when they talked about my shoulder, you know, before the canelo fight, I was just like, I don't know what's telling me and both of my shoulders. Like, it don't matter. Like my shoulder is healed. Like, yeah, how long did it take before it felt 100% again? After the fight. Really? Yeah. Cause I got it on Halloween. Oh, you got an October. And then how many months did you have to recover? I fought September. Whoa. Okay. So that wasn't easy. So you had not even a year and when did you really start training hard again after the surgery? Uh, probably April. Okay. That's a good amount of time. Yeah. And people don't realize like, shoulders are such a complicated joint as all those different movements. And it still wasn't like, like 100% after I fought because you didn't have your strength all the way back to even after you fought. Yeah. Like, it wasn't 100%. So it wasn't 100% in the fight. Mm-hmm. That's crazy. I always tell people like, if you watch my jab and my hook in the canelo fight, then watch my jab and my hook, my prior fights, you know, and Maddie Muffin, Spence, you'll see the difference. Really? You know, but the blind eye wouldn't even notice it. Right. You know, they'll just be like, huh, but then when they look, yeah, but then when they know, they'd be like, it wasn't as snappy. It wasn't as hard. Mm-hmm. You know, you kind of was just like landing out there. So that's just low key, low things. But now it's 100%. Oh, yeah, it's good now. No. And the left one doesn't bother you, really? The left one, it bothered me when it's overused, you know, but like, in a fight, no, I don't think none of that shit bothered me. Do you have any plans to come back and down? No, no, no. Can we get you back and down? I never come to those things. You know, the only time I ever came here was this podcast, never ever been here in my life. Really? That's a great city. But Julie always talked about it. So many good restaurants. So many good places. She took me to the college and all that and, you know, reminiscing because she went to college here and she just loved here. So she's like, this is the pours that we went to. This is this, this, this, this. I'm like, oh, Julie, you're a happy place. I play so. She was like, I just love here. Well, why not move here? It's a great town. I love it to death. But if you want to come back, I would love to get you set up, get your shoulder taken care of. It'll change your life. And then you're like, I'm like, I'm going to have a lot of fun. I'm like, I'm going to have a lot of fun. I'm going to have a lot of fun. I had a full length rotator cuff tear. I went to the doctor six months after the stem cells. It's the people that crave that limelight when it all goes away. They're like, "Who am I?" I thought I was special. I thought I was special. I want to be the guy when he's here, he's here. They want to be constantly in the limelight. Showing up at red carpets. I avoid all that, I should do. I don't want to have nothing to do with that. I know who I am internally. Can nobody tell me who turns carpets is. I'm happy in my own skin. Always been happy in my own skin. I believe that's how I got to the point where I'm at now. When nobody believed in me, I didn't listen to them because I knew who I was all along. When people told me I was a bad businessman, "Okay, look at me now." When people told me what I should have did and what I shouldn't have done, I did what I wanted to do. Look at me now. Now, everybody was like, "Man, this dude knew all along." Because I'm not a follower. I'm not going to listen to people that have never done anything in their life and never took no chances or no risk to tell me what I can and what I can't do. I'm happy whether they chat in my name or whether they not. As long as my family loves me and my family there, they're good. They're well-took and care of. That's the only thing that makes me happy. That's beautiful. I hope young fighters that are inspired by you take that example. I hope they take that mindset and try to adopt it as their own. I really do. I really do because there's so many young fighters that just can't wait to be that person in the line. I can't wait to be that person living flashy in front of everybody. It's a foolish adventure. It's temporary. It's temporary. They don't understand that. They only chat in your name for a moment. It's very temporary. They're eternally doing the heartbeat. Just do something crazy or lose. Imagine you're on post-alooes or be up against one of your rivals and you lose and then everybody's going to turn it back on you. 100%. You're going to be sitting there and lost. Look at Broner. When he was at the top of the top, everybody was there. He had everybody in this corner. Now he had this lowest. Now they're making fun of him. Now they're taking pictures. He makes fun of himself too. He do, but he's suffering. Yes. I hit some up and I tried to encourage him. I sent him messages. You got to be there for people when they had to go. That's great. He was a very talented guy. Again, that's what you said. He's a really caught up in it. That's a perfect example. What's Jervante doing now? Is he on the run? I don't know. I don't know about that guy. He keeps on the run. At least he was recently. That's unfortunate. He's so fucking talented. He's such an unusual style too. Very economical. Throws very few punches. But when he does, it's boom. Explosive. Super. Super explosive. This is a great time for boxing though. It really is. It's an exciting time for boxing. There's a lot of stars right now. You know? And they fight in each other. That's the most important thing that I could say is the fight has been made. Whether you on this side or that side, the fight has been made. The promoters is working together with them with each other. No matter what you attribute that to. Do you think that's real season? It's the other side. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. I didn't even change it up the game. He went to the fighters. I got this. We want this fight to happen. The fighters are like, whoa. We know we're not going to get this. Nobody would have never seen no B-Val better BF. If I would have never happened, the promoters are not going to pay that money. There are so many fights out there that the promoters would have never paid for. Top rank would have never paid the money that Turkey paid to see Shakur and T.O. Fight. Right. You know? So we got so many fights because of him. And we need to be appreciative of him because without him, none of those fights would have happened. 100%. The Canelo fight wouldn't happen for me. The Magymaw fight wouldn't happen for me. And so many more. Absolutely. I think that's very exciting. But that's with the sport needed. It needed someone to come in with deep pockets that just said, let's make these fights happen. And I think that's why, you know, boxing is on a rise right now. People is talking about boxing more. People is more supportive of boxing now. And people are tuned in to not only RIO season shows, but all shows. And I think that's why Clarissa, she just put on a hell of a performance. And it was rocking in that. Yeah. It was sold out over 16,000 people as a woman. I know, right? Man, she doing her thing. And people don't give women enough credit. Like she bringing out stars, you know, and man, it was, it was a good atmosphere in there. And it was a very skillful fight. They came to BANG. I said, I said, y'all came out of there fighting like cats and dogs in that first round. Ooh, yeah. She's sitting in her face. She wanted the knockout so bad. Oh, yeah. She's a dog. She's ferocious. Yeah. And so skillful too. Yeah. You know, but it's, she's a unique individual star. You know, you know, a realm where there's not a lot of women's stars. Yeah. It's like, but I think a person like her can encourage others. Yeah. And it could be more. And when you have one star a lot of times it does sort of open up the landscape for more. For sure. For sure, because she. She transcends. Yeah. She transcends boxing. Like a lot of people know who Chloressa Shields is. Yeah. A lot of people know who she is. Outside of boxing. And there's not a lot of other female boxes you could say that about. You know, there's only been a few ever like Christy Martin. Laila Lee. Laila Lee. And Wolf. Yeah. Wolf was good. Yeah. And Wolf. Wolf. That would crack. She could. And she was a ferocious trainer too. Remember she was training Kirkland? Yes. Bro. With the bag on the back of the truck. Oh man. She make him go through hell. But when she, when he was with her. Yeah. He was phenomenal. When he underfeated with her. I think he was underfeated with her. Yeah. And she wasn't with him when he fought Conello. A couple of fights on. I think she was with him. Yeah. Well, I think it was too much. It was too hard. He didn't want to do it. She's a tough lady man. She would put you through some fucking hell. Her training, like there's some videos of her putting Kirkland through training camp. It was like, my God. But for a woman to be able to do that. It just shows you how impressive she was, how special she was. But his performances showed as well. Yes. Because she was getting in his mind as well as physical. Yes. You know, and taking everything from him and putting them in a room and now it's training. It was kind of like Rocky. You know, you ain't got no TV. All you doing is work, you sleep, shoot boxing. Yeah. And it's just like, I got into old boxing footage real recently over the last like six months. I've been watching a lot of old camps and there's some great YouTube channels that are shows Haggar's camps. And Haggar's camps were phenomenal. It was so good. Like Haggar was rich and he would go to Provance Town, this shitty little fucking town on the Cape. No disrespect, Provance Town. I'm just saying, in compared to where he could be. It could be in New York City. He could be anywhere he wanted. But he would go to this small town in the middle of fucking nowhere and run on the beach and run on the room with no TV, no nothing. Just eat, sleep, train. And he was barring 100 rounds a week. And it was wild. Watching him train was incredible. It was incredible. And when he would get into that ring, there was no stone unturned. No stone unturned. And it was just all discipline and drive and focus. And he was another guy. Didn't get his due. Didn't get his due until he stopped. It really didn't stop at her. That's when people really woke up. All the inside boxing people were very aware. But it took a while. It took a while before the rest of the world called it. Because when I flashed you. Yeah. It wasn't flash. You just dominate. Yeah. Just break people's wills. The Mugabi fight to this day is one of my favorite fights of all time. Because Mugabi was putting people in the hospital. How was it tough? Oh my god. Mugabi hit so fucking hard. But that was the other thing about Hagler, man. How to chin from the hell. You know, Hagler had extraordinary mandible muscles. They did a cat scan on him, like a scan of his head. They said the muscles on the side of his head is like he was born with head gear. Or he developed it just from biting down on a mouthpiece for so long. Yeah, just aw. But I love watching those old school training footage videos. Like there's some great ones of Sugar Ray Robinson running in the mountains and hitting the bag and training and all the calisthenics that he had to do. I think more people should see stuff like that just to appreciate the amount of discipline and work that it takes to get into peak condition for a fight. Because I just don't think they understand what your mind has to go through to get up for that every day over and over and over and over and over. Until you're finally in the ring. Like the ring is almost the easy part. Easiest. It's tough. It's like, you know, when we in Colorado, when we got to run the mountain, like sometimes I'd be like, man, I ain't running this all right now. I don't care. And then it'd be like, you gonna get your ass off. You better get your ass off. Or a ball coming in and be like, let's go. I'm like, man, boy, let's go. I don't. Bo got the same anytime I'm giving them some push. He'd be like, I'm not about to argue with you for you to be great. Let's go. I'm like, that's great to have someone with you. Hey, right. I like, here we go. He's been with you from the beginning from the start. That's so big too. And it's crazy because the days that I don't want to do nothing is the craziest days that I do the best. You know, and because you conquered that inner bitch, the thing inside you that wants to not do it. Yeah, it's even be like, he was like, when you don't want to do something, it's like, you trying to hurry up and get it over with. So you trying to do it fast. So like, my best times is when I want to do it. Like, my best sparring is when I want to spar. Because it's like, I'm like, I'm not the fuck you up because I ain't about to play with you. I ain't about to go in here doing all this extra shit. You know, I want to get hit. So it's like, your best days is when you don't want to do it. Yeah. You know, that's when I perform the best in the gym and stuff like that. So yeah, man, a lot of, a lot of young fighters when they come and see my training, they see what I go through. Three times a day. So it's each sleep shit. Work. You know, they like, man, you trained too hard. I'm like, hey, no such thing. You know, Tim Bradley told me, man, you got a rest. You got to chill out. Andre Ward. Man, you got a, you got a rest. You know, and these last two training camps. I took on their advice and took it just a day off, like in a week, like every week. Instead of training seven days a week, I take one day off just not doing nothing and it helped me tremendously on my recover. Really? Because I used to just do active rest on Sunday. We'll do the incline. We'll just do the incline. I said in the morning, early in the morning, that we have the whole day to recover. But he like, no, you got to just take the whole day off not doing nothing. And just recover. And as you get, as I got older, you know, my last two training camps, I took that advice and it's just like, man, I'm like, man, I could have did this years ago. I was just so like locked in like, if I take a day off, they don't have a day up on me. And I was just like, I can't do that. I was working. So it's a fine line where there's a point of diminishing returns where you put in too much work. Like seeing a guy fight when he's over trained is one of the saddest things ever. It's like his drive actually fucked him. Yeah. I've seen it before. And MMA, it happens all the time. Especially guys who don't use heart rate monitors, don't monitor their resting heart rate when they get up at the morning. I used that in my last two camps. Oh, and there was the only two camps you did then? My last two camps. Wow, interesting. So like everything was visual with my coaches because they'd been with me so long. Right. So they know when to pull back. Right. Some days they'd be like, all right, you know, you're peaking. You did four rounds? No, we done. Like, man, I got eight rounds today. Oh, you good. But like, what? You good. Don't worry about it. We'll come back tomorrow. You know, and I'd be like, all right. You know, I will never question them. Right. You know, we come in there and they'd be like, all right, today we're just going to shout out boxing. We're going to hit the mids. But I never question them, but they already knew by watching me, you know, along the weeks to pull me back when the pull. Yeah. And then it started getting, you know, to me. And I'm like, oh, okay. So now that I know with it, like they're not going to let me over train because they know I'm going to give it in my all every time I train. Anything I do. So they just pull me back. Like, all right, what we going to just do yoga today and we're going to do boxing work. We ain't going to do no, you know, strength condition or we're not going to do no roadwork or we're not going to or we're just going to swim. We're not instead of running. We're going to swim. You know, so some days they're flip flop. That's the beauty of having a really good trainer for sure. And someone is really paying attention to you and real and knows you. Like knows the signs, knows when you're a little sluggish, knows when you're peaking a little early. Yeah. Before you bat, yeah. And anybody say that you train too hard. It's like compared to who? Compared to who, you know, like it's whether or not you've built your body up to the point where you're doing that for so many years that your body's conditioned to go that hard. You know, because there's people who used to say that if you run a marathon, like you need like six months off. I had a friend who was my friend Cameron Haynes. He runs ultra-marathons. When he was training for a 250 mile run, he was running a marathon every day. Most people, the conventional wisdom was you can't do that. Yeah, you can. You just got to get up to that. So if a fighter is slacking off in between camps and getting fat and drinking and fucking off, and then they get back into camp, yeah, you can't do three hard a day like that. But if you're already in shape and you're already conditioned and you have built up this base of years and years in doing this, your conditioning will be so much better. One of the things that I noticed in young fighters in particular, especially in MMA, is how tired they get in a three round fight. Just a three round MMA fight, how tired they get. And I'm sure they train hard, but they don't train as hard as these guys who don't get tired in a five round fight. So what is the difference? Well, it's the years and years of building up that cardio base, not fucking up your body, not partying. You know how to breathe. Uh-huh. That's the most important. Yeah. Because when I. My first time at the UFC, when I did strength condition, you know, I was like, "Man, I'm not getting that nod up. It's easy." And it was like, "Well, it's not meant to break you or kill you. You're gonna see the difference." And I'm just like, "Man, when I'm doing UFC back at home, like, I'm sore." I'm not sore, you know, the next day when I'm doing strength condition here, but like gradually you start seeing the results. Right. You know, and it's like, "Damn, you know, and it's a science behind it." Yes. You know, and I was just like, "In my mind, I'm like, "Man, I'm not working hard enough because I'm used to working hard." And I'm going home and I'm like, "Oh, that was a good workout. I feel it." Like psychologically, I'm like, "I don't feel like I did nothing, you know, because my body isn't sore and I'm like, "Man, I need to do more." And they're like, "You did a lot today." You know, I'm like, "All right, so like gradually I'm starting to see the effects." You know, I'm like, "Oh, okay." So maybe he was working me out too hard. You know what? I'm getting stronger and everything. I'm just like, "Okay, you know, it's all the science." It really is a science. And you know, the problem with fighters is, especially elite fighters, is they're so driven. You know, and sometimes you can't let the dragon off the chain. Yeah. I'm like, "Oh, down, slow down." You got to do this. We got to progress. Yes. And then you get to the first time and get to that perfect point the week before the fight where you just settle in and then fight time. That's my guy, Gavin. Gavin just like, "Oh, don't worry. We. " Stamps. Well, that's the beautiful thing about having someone that you could trust that really knows what they're doing. And you know, there's a lot of young fighters that are just all gas, no brakes. And they might be costing themselves a little bit. But then there's a lot of lazy fighters like, "Yeah, I don't know of a train." Like, "No, no, no. You're under training. That's why you get tired all the time. You're not in good enough shape to be doing a proper workout. That you need to do to really prepare for a fight." Yeah. It's just this fucking dance, man. It takes forever to learn. It takes forever. You know, that's why like a lot of fighters, they reach their prime when they get into their 30s. Because they get it all dialed in. They know what they need to do. They know what a camp really feels like. They prepare for it. Been their experience. Yeah. You know, so yeah, they definitely know their body. They know when they end shape, when they out of shape, what they need, when they need a little more, the experience is the best teacher, obviously. Yeah. Well, experience and then listening to people like you, that's a big factor. Listening to people that have done it all. And that wisdom, the things that you've set on this podcast today, I guarantee you right now there are hundreds of thousands of fucking future fighters that are listening to this right now. And that are probably like taking it all in. Okay. Because you know, in the early days, you don't know what the fuck to do. You don't know what? What's the right approach? Is his approach? Is his approach? What's the right mentality? What's the right mindset? Who are the right coaches? Which is a big factor. You get a bad coach and get stuck with a bad coach and it'll limit your development. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And that goes back to styles. When I said I was trying to coach everybody to the same style. And everybody meant to be trained the same. Everybody don't have the same, you know, mental capacity to process things the same way. Some people process things different. That's kind of like yelling at a fighter. You know, that motivated me. Sometimes that break fighters they like, "I'm getting out of that. I'm going somewhere wrong." You know, so we look at them like, "Man, toughen up." You know, but nowadays it's different. Like everything don't flock the same with one fighter like a dude. No, you gotta figure out what gets your fighter going. Yeah. Yeah. And that's another interesting dance. I don't envy those people because your livelihood depends upon another person performing. Which is kind of crazy. It's a crazy way to live your life. That's any sports. Yep. Like I always say, sometimes I blame the coaches, but for the most part, the players and the fighters and the athletes, they gotta go out there and perform. I could tell you go out there and do this, but if you don't go do it, then that's one you. Right. Now, coaches they can get out coached. They can call it wrong plays at the wrong times. Different like that. But all in all, if you go out there and miss a tackle, if you go out there and not catch the ball, why am I getting fired? They gonna blame me. Yeah, that's true. I can't make him hit the three. I can't make him, you know, the up so that I'm getting fired because they not performing. You're also getting fired by people that don't totally understand all the subtle nuances of what you do if you're a coach. Like if they're not a coach, how could you really understand? If you're not day in, day out with these athletes in their head, working with them, seeing what they're doing, improving upon their strengths, strengthening their weaknesses. If you're not doing that, you just are seeing results. That's all you say. You're judging based on results. And you don't really know who's a good coach and who's not. Because if you're a good coach, you got shit athletes. You can only go so far. That's it. And it's tough. It's tough to go across the middle and try to catch a bullet. When you know the safety about to come in later, the crazy slap on you. And it's crazy to go up on a seven footer trying to shoot a three. It's hard at a professional level to do what these athletes is doing. But they're making it seem like it's easy on the outside for us. And we like, man, you did catch the ball. It's like, man, you try to catch that ball with three people. You know, you're coming full speed and you got to worry about getting your feet in bounds and things like that. It's so much. Well, I was like, see if I was cornered during this curfew. You got to hit him. You got to hit him. What do you think I'm trying to do? Tell me how to hit him. Tell me how to set up to him. Don't just tell me you got to hit him. Yeah. And that goes in to saying that everybody shouldn't be a coach. Right. You know, because now you're not giving me no instructions. You're going off of emotions. Right. And you're just telling me, hey, you got to hit him. You're not hitting him. What are you doing? Yeah. Now, what if Tio would have said, what is you doing? Because you're not telling me nothing. Right. You see me trying to hit him, but you're moving. You know, like what I'm supposed to do. I'm swinging. And I'm missing. Right. So tell me how to set it up to him. But there's really nothing anybody could have told him. Yeah. The gap was just too wide at that point. Right. Yeah. But they should have studied more in training. But even then, it's like the problem is years. It's years of advancement. It's years of intelligent boxing. It's years of setups. It's years of skills. I think when a fighter have a good coach, that's knowledgeable. And they believe in a coach. And they coach axon to do something. And they believe that that's going to work. They'll try it. You know, if your coach tell you, all right, listen. He's stepping back every time you step in. So that means for every time he's stepped back, you got to step in twice and double the job and close the distance. And let your hands go when you get in range. And that fighter go out there and do what the coach axon to do. And he's successful. And that's a different ball game. That's a different ball game. Because now you listen into your coach, but your coach is seeing what the other fighter is doing, that's making him be more successful. Technical instruction. There you go. Yeah. You can't just go, go out there and hit him. Tell me how to do. I hear that shit in the corner. I'm like, good Lord. What are you saying? Yeah. You hear it in MMA all the time. You got to put it on him. Oh, oh, I didn't know. Oh, I got to put it on him. All this time I was hoping it would just happen. Yeah. Well, listen man, congratulations on everything. You had a fantastic spectacular, like one of a generation career. So it's beautiful to watch. And as a fan, I'm honored that you came in here. And I think what you've done is just fucking incredible. So congratulations on everything. Enjoy all the rest of your life. Oh, you earned it all. Thank you very much. All right. Bye everybody.