Journey First Selling: Account-Based Value Propositions That Speak to Every Decision-Maker with Brent Keltner (Episode 260)

(upbeat music) Welcome to Changing the Sales Game. It's the podcast helping sales professionals and sales leaders ditch outdated, icky sales tactics and learn to build real relationships to become trusted partners, create client advocates, and just close more deals fast and easy. I'm your host, Connie Whitman, and I'm thrilled that you're joining us this week. So today's episode, I'm gonna help you or my guests and I are gonna help you discover really three key things and really so much more. First one is, what is a buying committee and why is it important to be to be sales today? What is, number two, what is an account-based value proposition in sales terms? And the third one is, what is the biggest mistake your sales team may be making when selling to larger accounts? Now to support this conversation and those three takeaways, I chose a quote by Gemma Davies and she says, when you're trying to create change, you also need to change the mindset of the organizations you work with because they're used to doing things their way. Now additionally, see we give so much on the show, additionally, as we learn more about account-based value propositions and account-based marketing that speaks to all decision-makers and the importance of our relationship building skills and the strategy, I wanna help you communicate more effectively so that every conversation is easier and that you build confidence. So in the show notes, I have a gift for you, you'll find a link to my communication style assessment and you're gonna get two personalized reports that spotlight one, your natural communication superpowers and two, your blind spots, which I think is the more important report. So really double down and reading that one. This information really is key to helping you grow your sales results starting today. So who is my guess that we're gonna talk about this very cool topic? His name is Brent Keltner. Now Brent is the president of Winnellidics LLC and he's the creator of the journey first growth methodology. He builds B2D marketing and sales teams align around the buyer journey to accelerate revenue growth across industries, including SaaS education and healthcare. So please help me welcome Brent to the show. Brent, thanks so much for taking time and joining us today. - Yeah, Connie, thanks so much for having me. I'm really looking forward to the conversation. I love your opening questions, all really relevant. - Yes, and really there's so much more, but I like people listening. They're like, oh, I do B2B sales. Oh, I do high ticket sales. Then clearly this is the right episode for them. So I like to give a little taste right at the start of the show. So let's jump in. Let's start with what is a buying committee and why really, really is it important to the B2B sales today? - So let me just ask for a mind experiment from your audience that will help answer all three these questions 'cause at the end of the day, the answer on all of them starts with mindset. And this is the question. And I think every sales leader has to ask themselves. Consultative selling is now probably 50 years old as an industry if we go back to Sandler and then there's dozens and dozens of methodologies. You work with sales teams all the time. I work with sales teams all the time. They're only in four or five training methodologies they've been trained on. That's one truth. The other truth is that many buyers are done with sellers, right? 70% say they want a sales-free experience. - Yeah. - Maybe low teen says they find the sales conversation value added. So I think the folks that are on the listening right now have to ask themselves why is that disconnect? - Agreed. - And the why is that disconnect, two reasons is one, and it starts to speak to all of these, we train on a lot of sales skills. You look at a typical training program there, doesn't 15, 20, 80 and 90% of the time you should be spent on one thing. Really good discovery, really good multi-threaded discovery, right? And we have to think about sales is not, I'm trying to sell you anything. I'm trying to guide the buyer to the right decision for them. And if I do that, I win faster. I either get a deal or I get rid of a deal that's no good for me. - Absolutely. - So I set that up with, honestly, at the end of the day, great sellers, what they do is I'm talking to you one on one. I'm hoping you'll be my champion. I got to figure out, I got to do enough discovery to see what you're solving for. If you see my solution as the solve, and there's enough of a win for you. So I got to get deep on what's the win for my buyer, personally, to then go to others. So I have to spend my time with you on, going to, and who else is going to join this conversation and what do they care about? So really good discovery is deep with my champion and then multi-threaded from the very first conversation to every other person on the buying committee. So two questions. First one, I believe in what you just said that if we're prepared with good questions, really good questions that are relevant to that client, right, we have to do a little preparation to figure out what those relevant questions are. And let's face it, a lot of the questions are kind of the same. We just have to customize them based on industry, et cetera. Okay, so I have these good questions going in. I believe that we need to ask the question, shut our mouth, and I think 70% of the time we should be listening because the questions frame out we're getting information from the client and then when we go to give our proposal or whatever the solution is, right, given the client situation, that listening helps us fast track it. So that I wanted a comment on that I agree 100% in my world, 70%, meaning shut your mouth and listen 70% at the time. The part two to that is, I typically, and again, I'm not saying this is right or wrong, I'm asking a question from curiosity. I try to get all the decision makers or the majority of the decision makers in the room, the first time CEO and whoever, CFO, et cetera. Before I go in with someone at a lower level that knows me to give me, I get that information up front, but then I ask for who are the players? Can we get them in the same room, half hour, whatever the timeframe is that they ally? Do you believe in that or what you described is one person and then going through the chain? I'm just curious, how do you handle that? - Yeah, yeah, both great questions. So on the first 100%, like what you said is a good proposal. Honestly, it's just a recap and a revision of everything I've heard, right? - Yeah, yeah. - So this idea of just drawing people out and then recapping, that's what I'd say. I think sellers do way too little recapping. Hey, this is what I heard, did I hear that right? Would you add anything, would you say different? It is a massive selling skill that builds trust. I'm listening to you, I care about what you're saying. I'm trying to align, so good questions, recapping next questions. That is the key to selling. All I would add on the good questions is basic good discovery. I, at some point when I started consulting, I'd show up and I'd start training these salespeople and they'd say to me, how did you learn my products? So much quicker, my business, so much quicker than I did, right? 'Cause I just show up and I'd start leading better sales conversations. And what I'd say is, 'cause I don't really care about what your product or what you're selling, I'm just gonna ask in this way, Mr. Mrs. Buyer, what are you working on? Okay, sounds like what you're gonna, how is that going? What's working, what's not working? That's basic second level discovery. What would you like to improve? I don't have the air to know anything about your situation. What do you want to improve? Now you're telling me where the opportunity is, where the pain is, say the same thing to buy in any industry. - That's right. - Are you working on? Okay, what's working, what's not working? And then the thing, 90% of sellers miss that you got to get to is, and what's it worth to fix that? - That's the lost opportunity, that's right. - Always, because the economic buyer doesn't care less about the product. Does it save me staff time? Does it make me more money? Does it optimize my cost as a shift to a better user experience? So you gotta think and discovery, your endpoint on what's not working is what is it worth to fix that? Because selling, anytime you're asking somebody to sell, you're asking them to do something different and pay for the privilege of doing that. That is unnatural. - Yeah. - Gotta be a big reward. So get 'em to the what's it worth. - Yeah, it goes back to my quote, right? We go in and we think, oh, I got the answers for you. Meanwhile, they go, oh, that sounds really good. I don't really want to do that. Because they haven't caught up to what the real cost is, whether it's time, whether it's money, whether they're losing good personnel, whether they have a revolving door, losing in bed, whatever. It doesn't matter. They're losing money, whether it's time or money, they're losing somewhere. We're the, hopefully, we're the solution, right? If we can dig in. Now go back to my second question, which was the trying to get all the, as many, again, it's in a real world. Can we get all the decision makers? That doesn't happen. But do you try to get the multiple decision makers in the room? - Yeah, just one point on the first track. 'Cause when you just sat on the inertia, we know, you know, vast majority of deals that we lose, it's not to a competitor, it's to inertia. And so that's second level. I just want to encourage everybody who sells it all literally ask what's working, what's not working, what do you improve? So let them roll in the pain. Let them roll in the pain on everything they're working on. What's the cost? What's the cost? What's the cost? So they're thinking about that? On the other question, I believe strongly in micro discovery that you, to the ideally, you get short periods with every decision maker because one of the things that I find, so either you start with somebody who's a champion that takes you to the buying committee or if you start with a CEO or a C-suite or the person that has the initiative to buy or ask them who else you need to bring into the conversation and could I just do a short call to hear their perspective? Yes. My experience and some people are maybe better at this is if you go into a group call and you can recap what you heard, not in an aggressive way, but hey Mr. CEO, when I got together with your VP of finance and I got together with your business unit owner, you know, this is something I heard or you say to the CEO, this is what I heard from you in terms of the financial opportunity to solve that. Did I hear that right? Or would you say it differently? It seems like you're motivated, but I heard a slightly different thing from the business owner. So just curious, we'd love to hear how you are thinking collectively about that. So the micro discovery opportunities now you become the massive trusted advisor because you are connecting them around their pain and I just don't find in group conversations that that's easy to do. It gets kind of awkward to be asking three questions of the CEO. It's like after two, everybody else is like, well, what about me? Where at CFO, right? So in a group conversation, the tendency, if you don't have stuff to recap, is the keep moving forward into your slide deck or into your product. Yes. So I always encourage those micro discoveries and I think the hack, honestly, that I found work really well is whoever shows up on the first call, you got to get a champion, but asking them, you know, who would you like to invite in next and why? What are they going to care about? If we were going to configure a demo together or a review of our product, what would your CEO care about? What would your CFO care about? Right? What's the, is there an initiative that aligns us do? So my point is one of the things that I see teams do all the time is they think about discovery in a first call as single-threaded. Other names came up. I'm literally working with a school that sells into a company that sells into K-12 private schools, had a momentum in this company. They have integrated enrollment admissions into enrollment and to financial aid suite. They often start with admissions directors, very powerful product and then funnel metrics. Great discovery with the head of admissions, CFOs name will come up, head of schools name will come up, director and Roma came name of school, come up. They never ask, what does that person care about? How does your work connect with that person? If we did a demo together, what would they want to see most? So your champions will give that stuff up to you. And now the reap capping skill, you go into those group conversations as the trusted advisor that's helping them put together information and conversations there and having now. So those are really long answer to your question. It does. It makes sense, though, Brent. And here's here, like a lot of my clients are banks, corporate clients. So typically I'm working with HR head of training, who usually reports to HR, but they have stakeholders, right, that they're responsible for when they put their budget together. So what I train them to do, if you, it's not, it's just through good conversations where, you know, they do their budgets, let's say September, October, so during the summer, I start saying, hey, listen, have you reached out to this department? Are they trying anything out? Or, you know, I ran into someone, someone in the hall and they said this, are we reaching out to them because, you know, they have their their line item or whatever, maybe we can add to our budget for whatever we're working on. And what ends up happening is before we start doing budget talks, I'll walk in then to speak with whoever the HR person is. They've already talked to all these stakeholders with different departments. So now they come and sometimes I'll say to them, perfect, yes, we can do this in this or I'll say to them, yes, we can certainly do that. I need more information. Can I talk to whoever that division head is? So my champion, and again, I'm trying to bring it back to what you were saying would be that HR person, but through our conversation building trust with me, we bring these other divisions. So before you know it, I come in in one line, one vertical, and before you know what I'm working with every division within the bank, because I've proven myself, and then they all start, well, the division head start talking to each other, wait, what are you doing? How did your person do that? We got this great referral. Plus you have that HR person, training person, champion usage, she's amazing. Her deliveries are unbelievable. But now they're doing my homework, and then I say, can I meet with them? I want to dig a little bit deeper. The sale is almost made before I even meet with them because I have all these champions around me. Did that make sense? What I just said was that was awesome. I mean, you have individual conversations. There's individual discovery, but in every conversation, you are thinking about multi-threading discovery to your buying committee. That's the way we always have to sell. Yeah, love it. What did you call a micro selling? Micro discoveries. If you can get one-on-one stakeholders, but what you just said, right? As sellers, whoever we're talking to, how are they connected to other members of the buying committee? That's our job, and this is the contrast I started with. Part of the reason is that for this disconnect, is that the buyer journey has changed, right? People consume tons of content. They say now the buyer journey is 70-80% digital, so they show up really well-informed. Then we start asking them one-on-one questions, and they're like, you don't know anything about me. I know more about your business than you do, but the way to flip that script is when we start guiding them down this multi-threaded buyer journey, it gets them thinking about stuff they haven't been thinking about. You're immediately like, "Wow, you're so smart." All you're doing is asking questions. Wow, you're so. And you know what you do? You help them create a real client journey culture that's multifaceted. Not just one vertical using that client. Now, hey, wait a minute. We can share that three different ways right within the organization because we're all thinking in that same cultural kind. People are missing that. I find, I go in and I sell my product. Let me vomit my product information. Nobody cares about your product. I could go anywhere. That's when they talk about price because now it's just, all right, you're all doing the same thing. Who's the cheapest? That's where I'm going to go versus what's the value added at the end. And when you start to pull the. Now you're building a culture, that one sale could mean you make a sale to me, but I'm bringing you in to all the other divisions within the organization. You just made a million sales, but oh, by the way, you helped our internal processing. Costs have now gone down. Revenue has gone up. It just becomes this whole win-win dynamic. I love it. I love it. And you just, just in your case study, just explain what an account-based value prop is. If you think about really, it's our job to sell value at three levels. There are people that will care about the product. How do they experience your software? How do they experience your training? How do they experience whatever product or service you're delivering? Does it make their day-to-day easier? Those are our user buyers. And they care about that stuff a lot. But to your point, there's a lot of people that are asking, so what? What's the business case for me? Anybody who's writing a check, if you they're quickly asking about price, they're not seeing enough value in terms of optimizing some business process. So somebody writing a check is going to care about what's the business value to me, my team, my organization, to invest in this. But then you also have a bunch of corporate buyers that sit in central eight or other business units. And what they're asking is, okay, if we introduce this in one place, how does it impact my existing work processes by existing software? And so you have to be ready for that. What is the land and expand story, right? Even from that initial product. What is the value of multiple areas of a business using your product or service? You need to be equipped for that going in. If you're selling to a larger complex organization, to tell a story about one plus one equals three, the more users, there's more insight, there's more consistency, there's more internal sharing, whatever it is. So product value, business value, enterprise value, we have to connect those and bring them in at the right time. It's so interesting. I just had a client meeting. A new client was referred to me and it's a bank. And we were talking and I, you know, talking about basic stuff like your HR policies. Now, I don't deal with HR, but I said, you know, like your dress code, it's going to be different. If I'm a lender and I'm going out and I'm meeting with a farmer, I better not have a suit on. I will come more on, right? And I'm not going to be relevant to them. So we're jeans and work boots, right? If I'm internally where I'm doing wealth management, print people are bringing in five million dollars, I better have a suit and tie and women better be dressed and quaffed well, right? So all, so they, they were looking at me and I said, and your HR, I said, what are the job? Maybe I said, if we're doing this, let's do it right. I don't deal with HR. I said, but if do we need to reevaluate job descriptions? I don't know. You told me the last time you did it. Do we need to address dress dress policy? If you feel people aren't dressing appropriately and they were all you could see the wheels turning. It's not relevant to what I'm doing but it's relevant to the culture we're going to build across the the bank in this case so that we could we could let's do it let's do it right and then the money starts coming in from every area is the change going to be hard sure I said but let's start to build it they start to hear the change a little by little and the reasoning behind each little step now you're getting buy-in along the way so when we actually start doing in this case the the services sales training people are on board already they understand they understand what that end result looks like already they're on the train now we're we're finding the destination and I think that that's it doesn't I'm not HR but I know it's relevant to what we're trying to build to have success on the back end right totally yeah and I have enough go ahead no go ahead no go ahead finish with thought and then I wasn't say on this account pays value prop one thing we always encourage is you need to think about the expansion motion but don't sell it if it's not new right right sell the land get something done but it's going to come up well what about what about what about this other area other so you need an argument for that on the enterprise value and the other reason you need an enterprise value we all know it is that you know expansion revenue cost 27 percent of net new revenue right you already have the relation if you're already proven commodity you don't so in anybody who has an expansion motion as part of their product you need that enterprise value to tell a story about why you go from wonders and so build it but if you're selling net new focus on the land yeah gets too complicated otherwise and then get a win on the land and expand if you're selling expansion it's all about enterprise value right exactly exactly it's positioning it's just positioning at timing and place right and who is in the room that you're having this conversation with those that have the bigger vision you have to make sure that you show penny penny wise dollar foolish let's not be dollar foolish as we progress in this process as well love it love it love it love it okay so now you say personas don't buy but it but accounts do I need to understand that well and that's more for marketing teams you know marketing has been very organized around personas right and in a good discipline like what people enroll what are they thinking about day-to-day what do they care about what are they sort of typical psychographics of somebody so you can understand how to sell and engage them it's really important but personas individual personas that's C.E.R that's C.E.R that's F over that business unit owner in our case those are personas but individual personas don't buy for less than like five or ten thousand like anything about ten thousand you got a buying committee yes what I work with marketing teams we are a marketing and sales and aiming for them we have a strength in this journey first to connect the buyer journey rather than around our internal processes so we do work with a lot of marketing teams and they have these beautiful persona documents and I'll just say okay so how do they interact around making a purchase decision silence right they just haven't thought through right did your job I mean you got to start from the website and your content journey has to think about your buying committee it's not about the individual persona it's about connecting these value props to help them get together quicker right so that's it's buying committees that have a bunch of personas that buy for an account it's not individual personas do you find often the client you work with that the marketing and what you just described the sales piece of it right or the growth piece of the organization that there's always a disconnect with what marketing's objectives are do you do you find that or do you find they're usually working for better worse we've gotten good at ICP kind of identifying either CROs chief revenue officers chief sales officers that think across marketing and sales think about a journey or we work with a lot of sales oriented CMOs or heads of marketing so we usually qualify people out that don't get that the goal is alignment they see us as a force multiplier for alignment I say for better or worse because I know companies who have grown faster on the marketing or sales side because they're selling to one and then don't really care about alignment I mean we philosophically we're a small business and if we you know so so we qualify towards folks that see that alignment and I will just share for your audience anybody who wants to make this argument and you're going to share my contact information at the end but I mean I've been sharing studies from Gartner from Forester from McKinsey that all say the same thing which is companies that are have a personalized buyer journey across their internal teams grow two times as fast in the same verticals as their peers yeah because we're just constantly educating buyers without any disruption how to buy from us and buy more from us yeah yeah so you it's worth making the argument but but internal alignment is hard yeah it is like we we show up and throw up our product guess what we get in cross functional meetings it's all about me right finding the buyer's journey so it's hard but it's worth it if you can get the leadership commitment to focusing on the journey first and not our internal silos absolutely and the silos are real we see them all the time yeah I live the my corporate career and I see them all the time and it's funny the best CEOs I find that are doing wonderful things you see the revenue you know net profit really just skyrocket because they're watching the cost but they're looking at or all the pistons you know firing at the same time so they're looking at all those departments from a communal communication that's where the magic starts happening but that's a good mindset of the CEO that they're they're creating that in their meetings that everybody has a voice and not just the loud mouths and that the people who really have innovation are staying quiet because of the loudmouths you know take over the meeting it's ego right it's ego in these meetings um what is the biggest mistake or multiple mistakes that you see sales teams make when they're selling to these large accounts is there anything that like over and over and over again in addition to what we've already talked about what two things I mean one is what we already talk about is look you mean any salesperson that's not multi-threading they're outreach you just you know that's your job yeah it's the multi-thread at different levels figure out where the engagement is and then start to stick them together the other thing is I think a lot of sales teams when they don't have a marketing leader that thinks this way they just kind of punt and what I always say the sale right because like well I mean who's gonna I'm that's not my job to build that's product marketing to build those those uh different value props and it's product marketing to kind of understand what are the outcomes that we drive towards marketing I don't have the customer stories what I say what we say is look the number one asset that you have as sales team members are your customer stories good salespeople know their customer stories better than anybody else because it's what we use for referencing yeah so if you want to move in this direction all you got to do is commit as a sales leader a salesperson is capture your customer stories in a tribal way set aside some time show them up every two weeks somebody tell them their story and just socialize the stories to one another so you learn the problem solution result by industry by persona if you get good at storytelling about your own success stories your organization will shift your sales organization without any help for marketing will start to shift in this direction is that a good recommendation because they're they're almost like mini testimonials just that you've expanded those testimonies into a story of you know right going through and then here was the solution at the end I can relate to that solution as as the buyer is that a way for marketing and sales teams to kind of combine efforts and make it easier on the marketing but also make it want term easier on the on the sales because if I'm living and breathing that story right that success and I'm showing real dollars I'm bringing in and I go to marketing isn't there a way that they can then like the proof is in the pudding right print so like why aren't we doing this do you find that the marketing and the sales teams have those conversations between each other or with their customers between each other when I have that success do I bring it back to my team and say you're definitely what happened I think we need to do this in marketing we can leverage this are those conversations happening or am I too egotistical to not I think what so this is why I said like sales teams can lead on this you just build a habit as a sales leader we are every two weeks every month yeah we're going to celebrate our win stories and somebody on my team is on point to share one of their two best stories invite marketing to join yeah yeah if you want to go that way good marketing team but it's hard I mean there's a marketing or content institute survey that said you know we we say customer stories should be your number one content asset but if you look at number of content assets developed they're about number five because they're harder to get I can't a blog or an infographic or a video I can build on my own I don't need collaboration with a customer right so you stray from or but salespeople can capture these stories account people can capture these stories and fight marketing to those meetings and then document it so it's like we win any business you win faster by just reselling to look alike customers which you've already accomplished with other customers It's it is the fundamental driver of all business growth. You know what's so funny It just made me think of something this was years ago. I was doing a training and One of the employees shared a success story about the right deal client And it was just moving and beautiful and how he helped them financially and and what that look like and I said But this is your idea of like what you're describing So I reached out to mark. I don't know the mark. I don't deal with the marketing department, right? And I said I need you to talk to this just young man who are and I said if I go I'm gonna reach I don't know if it's gonna happen But I think you have to have a conversation with marketing because if you could share that story They might be able to leverage that create something. I don't know But there's something here. You're like you're like a walking commercial is what I said to and he was He was very passionate and heart felt he had the room crying. I mean, it was a great story Brent Connected him and marketing was like holy crap We have to use that and they ended up using it and I think they ended up using him and like this little mini commercial kind of thing The kid was good good looking animated, you know, just had a great energy about him It's just those moments in time that if if you as the salesperson sees that Get excited you bring that marketing person in and it's becomes obvious for them now you're creating magic, right? And it's an easy lift. I mean was that a hard lift? No, it's connecting to people to have a freaking conversation Which is so so dang easy, right? Um, we're almost at a time, but I do have one question. What advice do you have for sales teams? Maybe they have limited time or limited research resources. What would you double down on what would that be? I would say spend an hour a week with your peers practicing good discovery Multi three level and multi-threaded discovery and you can practice it to save space, right? You can practice in team settings You can set up with peers. This is the best forum of skills coaching There's good research from a bunch of plays I won't name because we're all set of time that An hour of skills coaching a week is your number one sales enablement investment. You all on average boost performance by 15 To 20% salesman. I mean, there's like actually it's a footnote in the challenger book They got a data set of like 5,000 people number one sales available investment 3% of your working week on code on skills development focus on good discovery and Multi-threading discovery everybody in your organization will improve if you do that I love it. I it's it's like role-playing in essence, right? You're it's it's practice skill practicing When in my day, Brent, I'm really gonna date myself here I know right dude like we didn't have that I would practice in the mirror Yes, I would record myself on a tape recorder on what I was saying to get the ums and the you knows and get those tick words out But I would also watch my animation and my body language to make sure I was open and engaging and that's what I would practice with Because we didn't have what you described. We were solo, you know, we were so Individual contributors that I never had good sales managers by the way So I thought well, I want to get better at this and this is what I would do look in the mirror when I was on the fun I mean all these stupid things that now people go you did what now they have everything these kids They don't know how easy they have it at their feet. They don't know how easy they are Oh my goodness, but it's good to know analog and now all the digital Right, because we know where the core effort starts with the with the psychology within really where it starts mindset is where it starts it really does it right and I was just um ambitious, but I I think my motivation was always how can I help this client to the best of my ability in the clearest way because it's talking You know, it's a financial planner talking to people about money is so important But back in the day the husband would say well no talk to me. She's not worrying about this and as a woman my head would Explode graciously I would say but if something happens to you We need to educate her for you for her and the kids and they go oh, I didn't think of that right so again How did I deliver that without getting angry as a woman like oh, I guess the practice of the mirror I tell you to get myself under control emotionally Because I just had a forward thinking mindset, but yeah, man, oh man we are Hey, I'm in a good place, right? I know you could say the same So This is the deal guys. I hope you've been inspired. I have been By the discussion today between Brent and myself and really really we not only talked about the buying committee And why it's so important to be to be sales Also, what is the count-base value proposition in simple terms we talked about that through micro conversations and and the It's almost like creating a web of conversations as you go forward and what's the biggest mistake your sales teams Maybe making when selling to larger accounts Again, it's going in with a very tunnel vision about product and not really Looking at what the paint points plural are that we could be the solution Go to the show notes. I'm going to share Brent's website and email. Please reach out to him So first website is winelitics.com His email is bet be keltoner at winelitics.com and on the website Brent There's a free chapter of your book the revenue acceleration playbook Can you just tell everybody what that is that they they get a chapter there? Yeah, I mean, it's basically taking this approach We've been describing and it takes it at every through every point in the sales process Nice so it'll ground up bounding the first calls to the stakeholder calls those group calls the Closing on a proposal to account expansions. So the same mindset and approach right plays for every phase of your sales and expansion process Beautiful and that's right on the website. They'll see the link to get that perfect Thank you so much for that everybody. So that is your call to action Go to the website download that chapter read it and then of course any questions or if after listening to the show You're like oh, there's something here. I think my team or if you're a contributor Maybe your sales manager should have a conversation with Brent So email him directly. He's lovely. You can see he's wonderful So please reach out to him for sure Brent Thanks so much for taking the time to be on the show and just being really awesome at getting real about It's easy changes. These are not real hard changes It I do agree with you it starts in the brain and our mindset and then once we start doing that shift It should become easy peasy what you're doing with the single Decision maker just you can expand that into that multi-level Kind of dissection. So thank you so much for that. Yeah great great summary and thank you for having me on the show con I really enjoyed the conversation. I did too great great job. Thank you so much, Brent And I hope you will join me weekly as we question build and discover together how using love care and respect, right? That's my that's my motto Brent and every client interaction again whether you're dealing with an individual or a corporate client Just fine-tuning your sales skills and just the couple of things that Brent Reference today. It's easy things or small things that that those changes can amplify greatness on the back ends And if we do these small steps like Brent recommend recommended they actually become effortless and change becomes part of just how we do business So Brent, thank you again for your Complex simplifying the complex concepts into these baby steps that we can all act upon today So thank you again Thank you for tuning into changing the sales game with me your host Connie Whitman have a wonderful week Open your mind to these baby steps that Brent shared and trust me You're going to solidify relationships. You're going to create these advocates within organization Business will come to you in a passive way just because you have good habits going in I'm excited and honored to have you every week join my guest and I and our conversation and I truly hope You have an inspired week take one thing called to action download the chapter of the book easy peasy It could change your life. Thank you so much Brent and thank you for tuning in love you guys. Thanks a million Be sure to subscribe so that you don't miss a single episode and while you're at it Please leave a rating and review and share it with your friends tune in every week for more exciting insights and strategies on Increasing your businesses ROI and always remember lead with heart and your sales will follow You