Josh Einsohn and Us | Casting Director

This is a head gum podcast. Who are we interviewing today? Josh Johnson is our casting director on this is us, the only episode he didn't do was the pilot. He worked for Tiffany Kempfield, but he came in shortly thereafter and pretty much is although he does not take full credit, he says it is a team of collective which I sure I understand, but he is sort of the one that brings in options. Casting directors, it is their job to ruminate, think back on their experience of people they brought in for other projects and knowing about other actors that are out there in the ether and kind of bringing them the right people to the right parts. That's what Josh's job was. Some of our favorites on the show, be it Lerick, Jen Morrison who played Cassidy, Griffin Dunne, both Nikki's Michael Langerano, all of the children, you know, all of the various agents, Alex Breckenridge, we had a very long in-depth conversation with him, just about his experience in the casting world, he said he's been doing this for over 25 years and just like where he was in his life when he was brought on board, this is us, how this is us, ended up impacting his own life personally and some of the choices that he made. And then just questions about what it's like to be a casting director, because I feel like we have a lot of artists that probably watch the show and they are always wondering what are they looking for, what are the things that make a good audition pop, because I know that's something very much in my head, so it turns out nobody knows, no one knows, there's no special sauce, there's no secret ingredients. So please enjoy this interview with Josh Ainssen, 25 years in casting, yeah, thank you, yeah, it snuck up on me, that's not it, many more has been doing it, how many years have you been? Yeah, I've got the same time, yeah, casting, casting for 25 years, can you believe it? I don't have any credits, obviously, we started when we were two, yeah, in front of the camera for the first time at age, what, like for real, for real, like 15, so yeah, 27 years, almost there, yeah, yeah, getting there, first camera job, 2006, well, yeah, 2006 is the first movie I did 20 years, yeah, 21, 25 for me, because it was 2001, because you came in on the West wing, that's right, you're on the West wing, no, no, no, no, you auditioned for it, I did, I did a special episode of the West wing, right, the live, but I did audition, yeah, yeah, audition, well, it was, I was like a baby casting associate, but I remember, do you remember, look at you, very clearly, yeah, say that, say that, say that, I feel like, we've been rolling, listen, I want, you know, you said, you said you remember him auditioning for it, but I feel like that is like an unspoken, huge part of casting is, is remembering, yeah, and then when it comes back around, I mean, there are also projects I work on that are particularly vivid, including this is us, we're like stuff really just sticks in my head, and when I was on the West wing, like a, a baby in the industry and casting at that point, everybody who came in was like magic to me and being in those rooms was magic, so like, I'm sure I've forgotten a lot at this point, but there was a lot I remember about, well, can we, can we, can we roll the tape back a little bit, and welcome our guests, yes, everybody who has something to say about this show usually comments on the music and the casting, yeah, and when they talk about the special sauce of what this is us was, yeah, and so much of that is thanks to our guest today who we've been trying to get on forever, yeah, Josh Ainson, thank you so much casting director in the flesh, very strange for me to be in front of a camera, yeah, you usually are behind the camera, trying to find the people that are in front of a cast someone to play me, yeah, there are no, there are no, yeah, you today you're being played by Jim Carrey, there are no three people who are more impressed with the casting of the show than three of us, we're very grateful for the casting of the show and your, okay, involvement in, and we always talk about just how incredible, like, we can, we can go into specific examples, but like, when people talk about casting for like young, like, all of the young versions of these characters, it is what every single time, in fact, this is a very specific example, we were just, you know, we're deepened into season five now, we were just watching an episode that flashes to the future, where older Annie and, and Tess and Deja are all meeting with their father to see their grandmother, who's in the, the process of she's sick and she's, she's slowly passing away, and my husband, who was sort of like comes in and out while I'm watching the show these days, like immediately was like, oh, that's Annie, like, just to pick out the actress who was playing the older version of because her essence, the way she looked, it was just so immediate, yeah, not even watching the episode, not even having to place what, but the episode was about casting so good, even Dan Fogelman can't hide what he's up to, there you go. Yeah, you're just like, bye, I know who that is, that's why. It's true, like, in the, I think I am the, who played future tests. That's right. To me was, well, so eerie, yeah, I noticed her first episode, they cut around her face a lot. Yeah. Until, uh, because it was so obvious, sure, and then they showed it because otherwise everybody's gonna know exactly what was going on and that was sort of killed the story beat. So, the first one that she showed up, she was a social worker with a little boy. Yes. And then we were thinking that that little boy was possibly going to come and be a part of our family because Randall's saying, like, I would like to have a little boy. Yeah. So the thing, right? So it was a good sort of divergence. Mr. Ranks, yeah. So they showed it for a second, but then you sort of lingered on the boy. Boy, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All of that to say. We're so interested to like really dig into so much with you because you just did such an unbelievable job finding some of the most like memorable parts and people that populated our show. Hey, man. But let's start from the beginning because you were just telling us before we kind of started rolling that you just celebrated 25 years in this job in this industry. Congratulations. Yeah. That is quite the feat. I started in production before that. So like I was in production for quite a while and then got to that point where I realized that was not going to be it forever and a friend of mine was killed and it was that real wake-up call of like, oh, life's short. Yeah. Do I want to do this forever? What do I want to do to honor her? And I really stood back. Took a few months and went, okay, working in production, you get to see everything, which is great. And I thought, all right, casting and editing and the whole post process look really interesting. And I'd sort of given myself a drop dead date and that date, the only casting directors I knew posted that they needed somebody and hired me. Wow. So I shifted gears. The first big thing I worked on was the polar express. Oh, wow. Which is such a cool thing to have the name on. I was just voices. Do you need people to do this motion capture? Yeah. It was the first motion capture. So like my job was to be on the phone all day explaining what that means. What that means? Yeah. And then you're talking like pong balls. So like, my actor's going to be there, but you won't see their face now. You might not hear their voice now and it's not going to look like them. No. But it's Robert Temeckas and Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks. That's what I'd say. Like, that's a good point. It's a selling point. Yeah. Yeah. And then my first big TV show after that with a different casting director, Laura Schiff, was the West Wing, which was my favorite show and one of the best ever of all time period. I mean, I thought it was a joke. Like I was home. I was napping. I was unemployed. And the phone was ringing back when you had a hardline phone. Yeah. And I almost didn't answer because of the nap. Yeah. I was like, I'll let it go for a voice mail and when, yeah, grabbed it on the last ring and this one's talking to me about the West Wing and I think it's one of my friends messing with me because they know how badly I wanted to be on the show. Sure. I remember what she said anymore, but I'm like, it's the call. Yeah. What season did you start on? I came in on five. Okay. So just as Aaron laughed. So I missed working with him, okay. But being there and being in those rooms and getting to work with those people and really learning the craft at that point, yeah, from Laura Schiff and everybody else, just overwhelming. I will. Good night. Yes. I want to take it back. even further though like you said you got that you got started in production like growing up were you acting like how did you what made you even excited about the prospect of like being in production where did you grow up hot like how did you get even involved total accident like I went to Washington University in St. Louis okay and what were you studying I ended up being a drama major okay again like I was just taking a classes for fun and then finally one of my teachers said you know you already completed the minor maybe you should just go ahead and commit um but it was really like once I took a directing class I went oh I really like this yeah telling people what to do not do which is I made a career so that part was great and but I still didn't know what I wanted to do and one of my professors said have you considered Hollywood the way you direct on stage like you kind of need a camera and an editor I thought okay uh my dad had gone to high school with Tommy Lee Jones oh wow really and I met him once and so I sent a lovely letter uh didn't think that was ever gonna happen and the a few days after he won the Oscar I for the for the fugitive I got phone call from a woman producing a movie that he was directing writing producing and starring in and offered a set PA gig holy cow yeah so that's I fell backwards into the industry and then weirdly my next gig uh I was an office PA and Luke Wilson who I went to high school with walked in and I'm like what are you doing here is I'm in the movie I'm like why and then he became Luke Wilson so it was a it was a very strange time to go from like writing about Sam Shepherd to being on set with Sam Shepherd on that movie with Tommy Lee I mean it was just and it was fascinating an amazing place to learn um for years but yeah at some point I decided it's so hard to give anybody advice on on how to get into this industry from any angle so many stories I hear is unique is unique and I go that never happened yeah I mean I sent it to a PO box on the middle of nowhere I'm like those yeah I better come up with a yeah plan B yeah I needed a plan A yeah yeah plan Rachel from Tommy Lee Jones's office yeah so yeah so the number of times where I've been in the right place of the right time or or unemployed at the right time like I didn't have a job and that's how I got the West for sure um and then to bring me to this uh Tiffany Little Canfield and I had worked together as casting associates on the TV show Smash she was in New York I was LA yep on the pilot and we became friends she moved out to LA to open a west coast office for Bernie Telsi yeah and we just happened to be put right next to each other going pilot season again and reconnected so while she was working on this I was working on my pilot which did not become a TV show and I was really at a place of like okay I need to be working with somebody like I need like doing it on my own like I wasn't getting the projects I wanted I didn't say anything to her and then a month or two later she said like at this message saying hey what are you up to and I thought she meant like let's go get sushi and she said no uh needs some help yeah and invited me to work with her on this and all she said it was a family drama and I gotta say like my initial response was like he's gonna have cancer this week you know and then it turns out yeah but then she gave me the script and I went oh this is what I've been waiting for I just didn't know yeah and I immediately knew you read the pilot I read the pilot she had already cast you all also like full credit like I did not work on episode one that was Tiffany working with Bernie but like she's the magic sauce the assembled you all and everybody in episode one and she's brilliant and wonderful to work with and wonderful to learn from um and then we got into the series so I didn't know who everybody was yet and we jumped right into casting the Lil's and Miguel and filling out this world and it was intense yeah so much pressure more that was us after these words from our sponsors this last week I just got in home from a trip and the whole house needed to be restocked yeah but I was gonna go to one of those bigger box stores you know like where I needed a bunch of stuff and I couldn't take either car wow and so I got a shopper yeah from shipped there you go and I gave them a long list yeah a mountain of supplies they came through and I they did come through and we had to have a lot of back and forth sure about produce yes sir because I need I need certain produce to be ripe right when I get it yes sir and then I want something that's not so ripe so that it'll be ripe I'm ready yeah I'm talking avocados avocados and bananas yes sounds simple no that's not that simple there's a specificity that I need you to be picky the same way that I would be picky looking at them in the cart while I'm at the store they understand that no order is ordinary yeah they see my life yes between the lists I like they're kind of reading between the lines about what's this person trying to accomplish with this grocery order yeah I feel like it's I'm not just shopping yeah they're creating art they're creating art in a cart with shipped it's never just a delivery order it's shopped same day in the same way that you would use the code podcast to get a year of shipped for only $49 that is half off the regular $99 price at ship.com/offer that's s-h-i-p-t.com/offer terms apply wait okay before we get into like specifics of of like our show you said something that I think a lot of actors will find interesting you talked about learning the craft of your job of being a casting director as far as you see it like what what makes a good casting director like what's what goes into because I've gone into rooms where tell us because we need to know this is a couple of things too the industry has shifted post-COVID in terms of people coming into rooms and people sort of self-tapes etc and so like going into the room for me was such a magical thing that I this is my private plea that I'll make public I want people to be able to go into the rooms again if and when it's possible because that's for our audience yeah let them know tell them how it used to be yeah so you brought up Bernie Tulsi and the Tulsi casting offices in New York City are what everyone listening thinks in their mind yeah tell them New York because you have all the different rooms on the floor there are there are seven rooms yeah with doors right next to each other and there are different sounds coming out of each one musicals and screaming and then they do a lot of theater and then and then out in the lobby is just 75 people with nervous stomachs trying to prepare and and and people kind of now Chris Sullivan Chris Sullivan for for hands on a hard body you know it's like it's whatever the it is what you're thinking yeah yeah yeah so now post-COVID things have gone digital yes we will receive some sides and we are asked to put ourselves on tape right so we will make a tape of the scenes and send them to the casting director and there are but pluses and minuses to the process the the pluses being I am now completely in control of the new just take as long as you want to and I can do it all day long if I need to yeah the minuses is is the lack of kind of human interaction redirection to yeah redirection yeah the magic is sort of lost yeah yeah yeah so back to your question right which was the craft in the modern day craft of casting and what makes a good casting yeah well there's sort of two questions there to me one is the craft itself which hasn't changed like the like the the roots of it are the same yes in the same like the roots of acting are the same whether you're on Broadway or on camera like the core of it it's the same like how you use the instrument is different same for what we do okay it's really finding out what our taste is and having a real good lock on that and then figuring out how to bring that to whoever has created a show or a movie and adjust around the edges and learn their taste because that's what they're hiring us for your taste right and and to work with them that way working with Dan and all the rest of the producers and writers on the show was great because they were great communicators about what they wanted and it was very easy to to see like oh this is the world we're making yeah And it's very, you know, Josh Langston casting. So like, what I brought to it was a good fit. And Tiffany hiring me for that was good call. (laughing) Well, she's a wise woman. And I think it is so fun. It is not just the big characters to me, the two line roles, or like the mailman after William Dodd's, who had five lines and he stole everybody. Yeah, and I still remember the casting session 'cause I saw all these people I knew. I had to step out for him by associate Ryan Tominsky at the time, had to take the last guy 'cause I was closing the deal or whatever. And he came out, he's like, we've got the guy. I'm like, I don't know, I haven't seen the rest of the session. It was really good. He was like, Josh, and he showed it to me. I'm like, this guy is amazing. I had never seen him before. And then the audience, reaction on five lines. - Yeah, it was, and I loved that. Like because those little parts still are such an important texture of the world. - Absolutely. - And you've seen the shows where like everybody's brilliant and then here's your water, man, and oh right, I'm watching a TV show and it just screeching to you. - But our show is never that. - And that's not to you. Not once, not one freaking moment. Which, thank you. I'm about to take a couple, it's a thank you. - Yeah. - But also came from Dan and everybody else. And when I say Dan, I do mean like the whole. - Yeah, I'm with you. - Representing that entire group of brilliant producers and writers and directors. That he would say like when things get hard, and I'm sure we'll get to the specifics and all. Flops wet. But like, there were roles where we would be having a hard time finding the right person. And I was like, wow, we got this. It's almost, and he's like, it's not what we do. We don't cheat here. We got to get it right. Keep looking. Good job. Keep looking. - Can you give us an example of that? - Yeah, that's a good question. - I want an example. The first one ended up. It's one of those things like the right person that ends up in front of the camera. I had to keep telling myself. Rachel Hilsson. - Yeah. - For young Beth. - Totally. - Team Beth, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So many, we got to clarify that. - Right. - And we found a young woman who actually even looked more like Susan, she was like really eerie did not feel like her. And we tried two or three times to get her there and the essence was just wrong. - Yeah. - And I was really at a loss. And then Rachel happened to be in LA from New York. The New York office said, "Oh, one of the nice things "about working for, or any tells us that anybody else, "everybody will give us suggestions." Okay, we heard you're looking for this. You should see this girl, she's in LA right now. She walked in the room and like, "That's her." - Okay. - Yeah. - And then, you know, took her to the chemistry, where Niles was like, "Oh, time to pump some stuff up." - Of course, of course you are. - He brought the gun show. - Yeah. - That was one of the first ones were really like, I was like, I don't know what we're gonna do. Another Blake Stadnik, like talking about a narrow target to hit, like got to be this age, got to look like a person, got to feel like a person, has to sing like an angel, and had to have a very specific kind of visual impairment for the story to work. - Sure. - That was spooky. - Yeah. - Yeah. - That's what I mean, you just did not miss. - That was, we had to get him out. I think he said, when he was with you out, but we had to get him out of a show. - A fire commitment. - Yeah, and it was a lot of begging. - To make that happen. - I know you say you need him, but we need him. - Yeah. - There's literally only person on the planet. - Yeah, like I got nobody else. - Here's the, here's one for you. - Yes. - Like I want, like let's talk about Laurel for a second, played by Jennifer. - Jennifer. - Starts off as like just like a scene on the bus in montage, right? And you don't, at that point in time, you don't know like what everybody can do, right? So when it comes back around, like is Dan talking to you like, can she act? Like can she do these other things? - Is that a consideration going in and casting, like also the first season, remember the fire fighter that comes up with Milo and the pilot, and then he has a whole story, like those kinds of things where you're like, I don't know that these people are going to come back around in this universe, but they do. - Do you know that at the time? - No. - So you didn't know that would Jennifer either with Milo? - No, it was back back, I remember. - It's extraordinary. - We were so jammed up trying to cast that episode, like the bus driver talked while I'm casting the woman in the back right now, who had no dialogue. - Yeah. - We had to come up with things for her to do 'cause she had nothing to say. She did, like everybody loved her on set, and we had heard like, oh my God, she's great. - But you're planning a seed. You're planning a seed very early on. - Well, and this was like, at this point, we had no idea what the show was going to be in, like all the different, tangled webs that they liked. - Yeah, what I'm not going to do. - Even that writer's one. - Even the writer's one. Whatever it was. Three, I was brand new. And then Dan came back, later, and was like, so. - Yeah. - For both of them, Anne Bryan, who played the Firefighter, was like, so we got a whole thing we want to do. Can you see if they can really act? - Okay. - And I think Tiffany worked with both of those, and really kind of took him for a test drive to see like, all right, if we really throw stuff at him, can they do it? Can they do it? And they did. And my God, like, fantastic. - Interesting assignment you have on this show. - Yeah. - Never anything like it. - Yeah. Another nervous, flat sweat was when we recast the team. - I was about to bring that up. - Talk a little bit about this story because when I, we shot a whole thing. - We shot an episode, I remember. - You shot it. - Yes, episode seven. - We got to shoot it again. - Yeah. - 'Cause they were too young? - Yeah. So casting, Parker Lonning and Mackenzie had to happen real, like normal casting, you got eight days, like, go. And they were great, but it was a little nerve wracking. Like, what do we get this wrong? No time for something that, and that we sort of knew they would be around for a little while. - Right. - And then so we then we had like two months to cast the team big three. - Yeah. - We had so many times, nationwide search. So kids from all over the place, like, it was no problem. We picked them, we brought them in, we did chemistry reads, Niles was actually part of that. And I think between his initial pre-read and that, like, he went for like Niles and Diles. And he was like, oh, you were no longer right for it. These kids anymore, shot it, thought we were done, moved on. And then I think, I can't remember if it was a phone call or an email, in my head it was a phone call on a Sunday. - Yeah. - From Dan going, it's not you. It's me, but we need to recast them and do a reshoot. And I hate doing it to kids too. - Oh my God. - Like, it just, like, I mean, it's bad enough when you got a recast on an adult, but the kids, I was like, oh, he was like, and it shoots Friday. - Oh yeah, it was such an accomplishment. - Well, all three of them talked about how fast. - So Sunday he told us, Monday night, the budget was approved and the breakdown couldn't go out until it was, breakdown for the three rolls went out Tuesday morning. We had Tuesday to decide who was gonna come in the next day, Wednesday, and it's kids, so a lot of 'em are in school and can't come in until 3-3-30. So we can't even start the auditions until like, the day on Wednesday. We had two rooms going, I've just like, how many can we see, go, go, go, go, go, go. God, everybody choices that night. They made their decisions. The next day, they were booked and in costumes and contacts and Friday, they were definitely camera. - They shot it, we re-shot it. - Had you ever seen, 'cause you'd seen Niles before. - Yeah. - Had you ever seen or met-- - Logan, or Hannah? - Or Logan, yeah. No, and Logan did not share the story and I wanted to kill him. He almost didn't come to the audition. He had a dentist appointment and I had, I think he'd had like a run of like, bad auditions that hadn't gone well and he was like, I don't know, what is this, I don't wanna go this. And it's perfectly Kevin. - Yeah. - Perfectly Kevin. I don't know. - Yeah, I got a dentist thing. - Oh yeah. - It was, he, Hannah read with Ryan, but Logan read with me and as soon as he walked in the room, I'm like, we got it. Like if this boy can talk, we got it. - Yeah. - And then he read the whole thing. - If he can postpone his dentist appointment. - Yeah. - He told me that like two years later, I'm like, I'm glad you did that. - Oh yeah. - Tell me it was done, 'cause I would have killed you and then I would have passed it again. (laughing) - So that was, that was also really spooky. Knowing at that point, like where the show was headed and how important it was to get right. I'm like, well, I got one, a week. I say, I, we as a team get like one at bat to get this right. - Yeah. - After spending two months looking the first time. So that was also-- - Well, it's tough too, because we had the confines of like the show was airing. - Yeah. - So it's not like the days of streaming, guys. This was like every Tuesday at 10 o'clock. Like the show was coming out and so yeah, we didn't really have a moment to waste. - No, I feel like that. We shot that on a Friday and a week from the next Tuesday. - Yeah, I dared. It was crazy. - It was insane. - So it is to the post-apartment. - It's such a fraught relationship between you and I. You know what I mean, like you have information I don't have, I have information. You don't have, and we have to, we're both flop-swetting. We're getting together to try and make this thing work. And it is the earliest kind of collaboration. And for an actor, it is one of the first blind spots to the creative process that you have. Because coming up, if I was ever asked to be a reader for auditions, I would die to do it. - Jump at it. - Die to do it. - Yeah. - Get me. - Seriously, I did it for Tiffany when we were on the air. - Yeah. - Yes, because I'm like, I want to see everyone audition. - Yeah. - I want to see how they do it. - Right. - I want to see the mistakes they make. - Right. - I want to see what is successful. - Yeah. - Because otherwise, I have no idea how this works. I just have an idea of like, - What I do. - How I might do this. - Yeah. - And it's such an interesting relationship to be on creatively. - Goes back to the early thing. The craft has changed, that the mechanics of the craft have changed overnight. Like, that whole week is vivid. We had the rap party Saturday. - Yeah, we had the rap party Saturday. I went to Disneyland with my sister and her kids on Monday. And we're all like, gross, we be hugging, I don't know. And Wednesday was Tom Hanks and the NBA. - Right. - Thursday was my last in-person audition for years. And Friday, we shut the office down forever. It was crazy. And we had already been doing a bunch of the really small roles online. I know people like to come in the room, but I feel bad making people like, leave your job, get child here, care, drive across town, get parking, whatever. Wait in a room for an hour to come in and say, thank you, or you're right this way. So some of those, we had already gotten used to, but then we have the big roles now. And we had to get really good at giving a pre-direct and really telling people, we're not gonna be in the room with you. This is what to aim for. And if we need to, we still had time to give people a call back and give them a re-direction or zoom with you and whatever. But we had to be much more proactive on the front end than we had been before. - Interesting. - Okay, hold on, I have a few questions, or comments, thoughts, et cetera. This is Chris piggybacking off of you as a reader, 'cause I've been a reader a few times too, and it's fascinating. And even as a producer and watching people's tapes, you can speak to this a little bit, Josh, there are great actors who don't always get the job. There are great actors who have great auditions. - Who don't get the job? And sometimes it's just not the right fit. And I feel like it's important for people. - Yes, the few times that I have been on the other side of like reading with several actors and I already have the job or whatever, it is such a relief to know like, oh wow, everybody's great. They all bring something different and you know immediately like, oh, I don't think this is the right person. Not because they weren't great. It just wasn't the right person for the role. And as an actor, there is such a, like there is relief in knowing that it's not like, it's not personal. It's hard not to personalize everything. - Yeah, I really, I couldn't be on that end of it 'cause I know that no is part, I'll big part of my job is saying no to people. But like I try to reassure people like, we're pretty good at our job. If you're reading for this role, you're probably gonna do a good job with it. Whether or not that means you're right in terms of getting in or of the finish line is a whole bunch of factors that nobody can really even quantify. So to just really, and it's very easy to say 'cause I do what I do. But like you really just have to let that part of it go because then it's the creative part. Like the young woman who was reading for Team Beth, fantastic actor, her instrument just didn't fit suit. - Right, right. - And the kids we had to let go for the team. So they were like, they were like, who young? The way I frame it in my mind is if this one thing is true, if I am prepared, then every job I get has everything to do with me. And every job I do not get has nothing to do with me. - Right, yeah. - Like that's the only way I could stay sane. Like even this job, getting this job when I showed up, I was like, this was near miss to cast me opposite someone who is almost a foot and three inches shorter than I am. - Like in certain casting worlds, that would be like, well, that's not gonna work out. - Yeah, he's too tall. - That's not gonna work out for the camera, literally for the camera. And so when I met Chrissy, I was like, oh, whoo, dodged a bullet on that one. Must have been a little extra funny on the audition to get past that roadblock. But it's gotta be, I mean, every equation has to be unique. - Yeah, so like there's, I mean, there are plenty of times where we go into things being like, oh, we know who's gonna get it. And then you see it and you go, look what they brought to it. Look what they're doing with it that we didn't know that they had and how exciting that is. That's the, both the scary and the fun part of our job is when that comes together, it's just so exciting. Like I love that. - You were talking a bit about the pandemic or whatnot. So what do you miss about how it was before? What do you like now that it's sort of moved to this digital thing? Like what are the pros and cons as far as you see them? - When we were in the room with producers and directors, like if somebody would like mess the tiny little thing up, somebody would say, oh, they're not great with words or whatever garbage and it made me insane. Or like, I wish they had done this. I'm like, oh, you know what, you're the director. - You could have asked them. - How about that? - Yeah. - Then a number of times I literally had to chase people to park into the parking lot. - Like, can you come back here? - One more thing, one more thing. - Right. - It made me nuts. Literally, there was like a switch flipped and suddenly anybody we worked with was like, oh, they're great. We'll work with them on the day. Yes, yes you will as a matter of fact. And that has been such a benefit to making sure the right person is getting in front of you. - That's interesting, okay. - I don't know what that was about. - You're saying there's greater grace now in terms of like, what a tape looks like and like, they're not nitpicking every little thing or what. - They just know, like an audition is not a finished product. - Right. - I mean, I'm not expecting that to be 100% because I have not worked with them. They haven't been on the set. - Okay. - Like, Tiffany, you know, I'm pretty good readers. But like, we're not you guys. So like, putting somebody on set with you is when like, oh, now, like, it's all coming together. Like, we're casting people to work with you. - Yeah. - Not us. But for whatever reason, that clicked and that's been delightful. And then the lack of limitation, you know, somebody happens to be filming in Atlanta right now. You're no longer out of the running for this part. - This is true. - You can do a self-tape, or we'll zoom with you or whatever. And there are ways to be in the mix still that just didn't used to happen when I was like, well, if you can't get in the room, you can't get in the room. - Are you still doing some in person or everything is online? - Yeah, yeah. - At the end, is it usually like, when you get to your final two, three? - Usually, but not all the time. - Okay. - Like, there's some roles where we just know like this is gonna be hard. - Okay, just, we need to work in person. - Yeah, no, like, there's no pre-direct we can give. Like, we gotta get in the room. And we gotta spend the time really working with them and crafting the role. - Let's just know that that still happens. - You talked about the process of finding our Miguel, our sweet sweet Miguel. - Our sweet children does. - His talk about it was just like, and we had a conversation. - He's like, I just got a call and like, turn my car around basically to get to Paramount. I was like, wow. - It shows you the compartmentalization that survival compartmentalization we have. - Yeah. - Actors. - Yeah. - Where it was like, listen man, I blacked out. I went in there and did my thing. And there's this whole process going on. - Yeah, behind the scenes. - Yeah, what was it? - I will say, I was not in the room that day. - Okay. - That was one of the reasons like, Tiffany and I split the, I think that was when I was scrambling to find the littles. - Got it, got it. - I remember that. - I got it. - Confided in Concord. - So like, I think that I was knee deep in that whilst she was like, great. But in terms of like his recollection of the day, like I remember, I listened to it on the podcast. I am a fan. - Ah. - And I was like, there was a cool story to me. (laughing) - I was like, go ahead. - I didn't know anything. - Yeah, I was like, I missed that. Yeah, especially on a show this big, there's a real division of labor. - Yeah, with the team. So I missed that. It was funny because when we cast Michael and Gerano, I called his agent. I'm like, I can't tell you what this part is, but he needs to do it. (laughing) He's like, what are you talking about? You can't, but blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I know this is a terrible pitch. But it's a really good part and he's gonna wanna do it. - Yeah. - And then when it came time to cast older Nikki, like a bunch of us got to Griffin, like within seconds of each other were, I was like, oh, oh, same agent. And I called and I was like, I'm doing it again. - Yeah. - Trust me, you have to trust me. And then I said, there is only one agent in the entire industry who could figure out what this role is. Josh, you get, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, just think about it. Call me back. And then I had text a couple minutes later, being like, you got it. And Griffin came to play. They have the same age. I mean, what, how bizarre are you kidding me? Wow, that's meant to be. Yeah, so that was really, it was fun to get to mess with them a little bit too. He's a good guy. Yeah. So that was great. Jen Morrison came and fought for Cassidy. She did. She came and read for it. And I remember thinking when we were putting the list together, I was like, I think it's going to be her. And I don't know why, but I'm like, I think it's her. And I got to tell her that later, but I was like, I think this is her. And then Dan said, I need to hear this one. And I was worried because she was just coming off of once upon a time, like carrying her on TV. So I'm like, oh, she doesn't want to come in the room. And she did, and it was one of the most vivid auditions I've ever had where I read with somebody who was just so in it. It was magic that I was so, so glad that I read. I'll stop too. What was the scene, do you remember? It was a few of them. And one was her yelling at the woman about, you've got to tell us who it is. Tell us who it is right now. We're going to kill her. I don't remember the honest, like that was the one where I was like, she scared me. Like I was like reading with her was hard in a good way. Yeah, yeah. Because she was so in that and seeing her, the switch flip on. And how, and she went farther with that than they ended up doing on the show. Which I think would have scared people too much. But it was intense and fully felt. That's wonderful. Here's a question for you. Just piggybacking off of that. When you are reading in the room with an actor, are you looking at the monitor? Are you looking at the actor? Are you splitting the difference? Are you seeing from looking at the person? Are you imagining how they look on camera? Or is it like you have to go back and look at the tape to see and notice what happened between two people and then how the camera picked it up? I always have to go back and watch. Because there's always little stuff that the camera gets that you don't show the room. Right. I'm going back and forth, but I'm trying to stay engaged. I'm trying to get into it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I'm not an actor, but like I said, we're pretty good readers. We want to be present for you so that you're just not reading with the top of my head. Yeah, it is as much as possible. Sure. And we're not going full out either. That would be a little bit silly. That's not our job. But like to give you enough and to be present for you that you're really working with that person. We really take that part seriously so that you can engage. I'm thinking out loud like I'm remembering. Do you have, because I feel like a lot of actors watch, do you have any? Hard cord do's and don'ts in terms of auditions. No, this is just for us. This is just for us. Hold on, we don't know. Let me record those. Hold on, please. No, because every rule, I always like to joke. If you ask 10 casting directors, one question, you get 20 answers and we'll swear all of them are right. Okay. Like it's always dependent on the situation, the whatever. Especially now in the self-tape era, I'm not a fan of too much going on or going into the real world and because then people are distracted by what's in the background or whatever. Oh, people will send tapes where they're like this scene takes place in a bus stop. So I'm going to shoot it at a bus stop. Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. These are the stories I want to get into. Casting bloopers, because I've got a couple of my own. Yeah. No, the terror watching a guy who was an actual lift driver, doing a scene to play a lift driver, paying attention to the camera and not where he was driving. Oh, god. No, no. Like no idea how that performance was because I was terrified. The whole time he was on the radio, yeah. But like that same episode, I still remember there. I think it was a kid in the grocery store with you, older Rebecca. I think that's what he played. Anyway, he actually did it in the grocery store. And at first, you know, it starts on just a frame. I'm like, I can't tell. And then it was so charming and funny. I'm like, so anything can come. So that's why I'm like, whatever my rules are. I tend to. Yeah, the only thing. Here's my don't. My one don't is don't impose it on the script. Mine it from the short. I understand. That's the thing that makes me crazy is when it's like, like, I don't, I think her mother used to abuse her. And I'm like, you're really just bringing coffee. Yeah. You know, like, but, you know, she reminds me of my mother. No, she don't. Yeah, I had a I had a casting director take a big swing back in my Chicago days for a commercial. Okay. And it was a callback for a series of Snickers commercials. And they and the casting director called me, which had never happened called me directly. Yeah, never happened before. And they said, I've reserved you a costume at at this costume shop. Go pick it up and bring it to the and wear it to the callback. And it it was a full Viking costume. For leather, no big horned helmet. And I show up to the casting office. And I am the only one in costume. So picture the room, right? A bunch of other dudes. My size six foot five beards sitting around looking at their sides, looking at me dressed in full Viking costume. Got the role. Yeah, it was a huge swing. And it was like eight national commercials on camera. It's big money. Yeah, yeah, big whole series. But like, there's got to be casting situations. I had a reader once who would not look at me at all because they were so focused on the paper would say their lines and then mouth my line. I'm looking at them. And they would just mouth the words that you were saying. Well, we got to stop. We got something you can free. I don't mind you not looking at me. That's fine. You read the words. You cannot be mowling my words while I'm saying them. It's like, no, that's not. There has to be. There has to be. Do you have any of those? I don't think of. I have like black them out. I hate it. And obviously this is one of my favorite casting stories. But it's slightly different. Because I do have those. But I want it. I had an audition for Spinoff of like the vampire dyes with the origins or something like that. Spinoff of the vampire diaries. And Chris, like every once in a while, you come out of an audition. And then I was like, all right. I think I booked that one. That didn't happen often. But I was like, I think I stuck my foot. And I went, I felt good about it. Called my manager. I was like, hey, we got any feedback from the casting office, right? And I said, I haven't heard anything. But as soon as I do, I'll let you know. Because she calls me back. And she's like, they decided to go in another direction. And I was in the car and I was like, you're kidding me. I pulled over and I said, are you sure? And they're like, yeah, they said, they're sure. And I was like, I think they made, I said, guys, I said, I think they made a mistake. You should call back and get, yeah. She called back and she said, no, we're sure. I drove back, I drove back to the office. I said, hey, you guys, I'm sterling, sterling brown. And they're like, yeah, yeah. I was like, are you sure you weren't firing me? Is there like a curling brown or somebody you've gotten a mistake and they wound up telling me, they wound up telling me who booked it. And I was like, you know what? And he was a friend of mine. And I was like, all right, I can see that. This is the end of that. This is the real Jerry Maguire moment. Like I picture you in the office like, all right, I'll let this one slide. I'm gonna let this one go. It is the only time. It is the only time this is ever happening in my career. I was like, nah, I can't look that way. That's hysterical. Well, you know, whoever was out front, too, was like some poor assistant being like-- Totally, they were like-- This guy is back. He was sterling real bad. And I wasn't like me. I was like, I was like, I sure you didn't like sterling. I was like, I figured it was just some time. I was like, you're a big guest. Sometimes they get, like, brothers get confused. You know what I'm saying? You guys are just kidding, right? I was like, I'm sorry. You're just kidding? More that was us after this short break. Gang, I was looking at my calendar the other day and realized how many trips just sneak up on us. Not big vacations, just work travel, family weekends. Quick getaways that add up faster than you expect. I feel like I have a couple of those trips on the books right now. Like, work things that have been out there for like a couple months. And in theory, I'm like, oh no, they're far enough away. And they do sneak up on you. They do. For me, it's a lot of back and forth. Like, when we're working out of town, sometimes I will book my own stays. And I'm like, oh, right. I have to be in a foreign city. Yeah. In two days. Yeah. I better get on Airbnb. I better get on it. And every time you take one of those trips, your home is just sitting there empty while you're gone. That is where hosting your home on Airbnb can really make sense. Especially now with Airbnb's co-host network. You can partner with a vetted local co-host, someone with real hosting experience to help take care of your home and guests while you're away. A co-host can help manage reservations, handle guest communications, and even provide on-site support. So the stay runs smoothly. And if you have a trip coming up and your home will be sitting empty, hosting it on Airbnb is a practical way to make use of your space and can earn you a little extra for wherever you're headed next. If you've considered hosting but need a little help, find a co-host at Airbnb.com/host. It could be anonymous, Josh. But do you have any good stories? You've got to have good stories. I mean, I've never had an actor come back and be like, "You're wrong." Yeah, because that's ridiculous. You wanted to cast me. Yeah. That just shows you who I am. It's good. I like it. No, me breaking, and I've only ever broken once, but me breaking was like-- Laughing? Yeah, it just couldn't church giggles. It was, I mean, not really, but to ask for a good story, self-deprecating. This is my day. It was the end of the West Wing, and the casting director wasn't able to be there. She was letting me run with it. I could be in the session with producers, which was a big deal. We were all ready. All emotional, like, it was the end of the show, and it was a role for a priest, and I mean, I have to back it all the way up. There used to be a comedian named Richard Jenny, who did this whole routine about how Catholic priests all sound like Kermit the Frog with their balls clipped in a cardboard. And it was-- I appreciate the context. But like, that's what's in my hand. Yep. In this guy comes in and goes, "Dear Lord, and I was done. Just done." And like-- And the guy can't forget where you're laughing. Yeah, and I'm like trying to respectful, and like curling up into like a ball, like what's shaking. And the producer was like, "We're like, crusting in your Kirk." Like, I can feel like-- The eyeballs. Yeah, I'm like, "Oh, God, pull together." And I just-- And it was a long speech of all that. And finally, it finished, and I'm like, "Oh, thank God, I got my breath back." And then he goes, "Let's do it one more time." And thankfully gave him some notes that ended up pitching from it away, and then they cast him probably out of sympathy first. He was quite good. But boy, that first swing I-- And that is the only time I have ever completely come unglued in the casting room. Yeah. Can I ask you a more personal question? Yes. Can you, if you're willing to share maybe how the show and working on the show influenced your own personal life in terms of your decision to become a parent? Yeah. Yeah. So I had always wanted to be a dad. Yeah. And my sister's adopted. So adoption is not a new concept to our family. There's something that works. Yeah. But I always thought I had to have a partner. Like, I was like, "Oh, I can't do a hard thing by myself." And finally, I realized all the hard things I'd done by myself. Okay. And started to sort of mull on it. And very quickly, things came together. And in the process also, this is us affected so many things. So I was talking to the lawyer who handled the adoption. And she was telling me that they changed the way they do business because of our episodes about the Ketoby with-- Ellie? I was going to say any. That's a real name. But Ellie and what the adoption triangle story that we told was. Wow. And they had meetings about how they're like, "Oh, we're so conscious of this stuff." And yet, this brought up a new thing that we had never thought about before. We decided to change how we treat things. And then the woman who designed my adoption website told me, thanked me. She said, because she's a white woman who had, I think, two boys, one, a white biosan and one an adopted black boy. And they were watching the show together. Wow. And started having conversations that they didn't know that they needed to have until they started watching the show. Wow. That's amazing. And in the middle of my own deeply and moving emotional experience of going through this adoption, having these people come to me and say, "Thank you for what that show did for our lives and how we move through the world." Because I know you all get it all the time because we're like the faces of it, but I hadn't really. And that was really-- Moving, I'm sure. Powerful. I got matched. They said probably a three, three and a half year wait before you get matched. Single dads. Like it happens all the time. Usually takes longer. Great. We're in the middle of the writers and actress strike. I'm home. No gun. Board. And get a phone call saying, "You've matched." That was on a Friday. By the way, it's a baby girl and she's doing two weeks. Oh my god. So right into shock. Talked to the birth mom Sunday. She was very, very, very shy. So sort of an awkward conversation. But lovely. Yeah. Texting a lot. And then she said, "I can make a music mix of some of my favorite music to play to her belly." So I was up doing that between Monday and Tuesday night. And I got a text from her asking if I was awake. And I'm like, "Well, I think I know what this is going to be." She said, "You have a beautiful baby girl." Oh my gosh. So that Tuesday, I got my life together. Wednesday, I'm on an airplane. And by the end of Wednesday, I am holding my baby girl in North Carolina. Oh my god. That's amazing. Five days. Yeah. And yeah. Totally in shock. Delighted, but just unable to process all of that. While I'm there, the strike is sort of coming to an end because I had to wait for a while for all the, whatever state, state paperwork to come through. And we're starting to prep paradise. And jump onto a Zoom with Dan Fogelman and then Sharon Klein and Stephanie Levinson of casting at Disney Television. I'm sitting in the hotel room and we're like, "Oh, who's baby is that? Funny story. You know that show where we talk about adoption every day for six years?" Well, it made an impact. Yeah, you played a seat. And yeah. And then we're kicking off paradise. I got to travel back right after that. Wow. Well, I've got a brand new baby. Wow. It's her name, Molly. Molly. How does she know? Like two and a half? Yeah. She's two and a half. Very, very extrovert, which is strange for introvert daddy. For her to walk into a room and be like, "Hey, like blowing kisses to people on airplanes and saying hi to everybody at the grocery store and the park." That's the perfect airplane behavior though. That's exactly what you want. Yeah. Just blowing kisses. Blowing kisses and hi to everybody. After the first hour of blowing kisses, I think the mom was very untired of it. I had the pleasure of spending some time with Molly during a holiday party at Jen Morrison's house. I had all three of my kids that I was chasing around and I was like, "Trash!" And he's like, "This is my daughter." I'm like, "Oh my God!" Like, it was fun. I got very emotional then watching them play together. Like with Jen's daughter and your kids. Yeah, I know. And you know, who just came right up and wanted to play. I know. I was very, very sweet. And then like having all those roots back to this is us and hear all of our kids together that didn't exist. Yeah, didn't exist. Another here. All together in the room. Like, it's, yeah, it's such an incredible suite. I know, I know. It was really, it's so special. We got to have a this is us play date. Yeah. With all the children. All the children. My kids won't be in one place. No, they're, they're going to watch more. Yeah, they'll be the babies. They're going to go. It's also been for me to hear this because you guys talk so much about your experiences. And I'm sure for everybody, it's like moving to hear you talk about your children and parenting and sort of how it connects to the show. But there's that extra thing because I know you all a little bit. And especially since we've got the young ones who are the same age. Yeah. Oh, they're doing a I'm not alone. Okay, sure. Yeah, exactly. It's we're all in this together. Oh, yeah. This is totally normal. Yeah. To that's, yeah, I just want to unpack five days, bro. Like, you get on playing, you go all the way across the country. You have, you have a daughter. And like, just, just so like, just to not sugarcoat anything, whatnot. Like, what? What is the sort of acclimation process for you in that moment? You know, like, is it all right? I got a daughter now. So because like you, you're not giving the full nesting time that a lot of people are given to prepare for. Like, do you have a nursery set up as you're setting all this stuff? So what's next? That's this. I mean, very paradise to become a parent and then immediately get on an airplane. Yeah. Yeah, say we go into the airport with the babies. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. No, like I had to like retcon parenthood. Yeah. No, her room now was my office. Okay. Yeah. Cause one of the things they tell you is like, it could be a long way. You don't want the sad, lonely room sitting there for a really long time. Oh, my god. - Okay, I had, I think the only thing I had bought at that point was a straw or a car seat, because-- - Well, that's a step, it's great direction, I know a lot. - Because I knew like, it was a possibility. - Sure, sure, sure. - And you have to have the car seat sticker baby home, so I'm like, all right. - Yeah, that's right, yeah. - Great task. - And, you know, my parents couldn't resist till like, there were a few onesies and stuff, but not much. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - I had made an Amazon list called, if the baby comes tomorrow. - Okay, okay, that's good. - A different one that was like actual, you know, stuff. And boy, I just pulled the trigger on, if the baby comes tomorrow, like diapers and phone, and all the stuff, and bottles. And then the other I shared with my friends and everybody really rallied to-- - Oh, that's amazing. - To make it happen. And I had two hours between getting off the plane and getting to the hospital to pick her name. And I had sort of made a list of names and I sent to my sister and I said, I want you to help me 'cause I picked her name. - You picked your sister's name? - I picked Elizabeth, yeah. - Wow. - My parents were like, we're about to go get her and like, it's Elizabeth, they're Stephanie. And I was like, well, I'm calling her Elizabeth. (laughing) And I'm like, okay, I guess-- - I guess she's Elizabeth. - So Elizabeth, five years old, I still remember like where I was when I said it. So I wanted her to help and I was real tired. (laughing) So, you know, she helped me pick Molly Avery. - Molly Avery. - And sure enough, the first question I asked when I got to the hospital is, do you have a name for the birth certificate? It's a matter of fact, I do. - Yeah. - Yeah, it was all very, very quick and beautiful and wonderful and she's a great kid and it was so meant to be and she's so my daughter. - Yeah. - And I have a great relationship with the birth mom still. So, all very beautiful and meant to be. - Yes, congrats. - Wow. - Thank you. - That's awesome, that's great. - Thank you, yeah, no, the show. - Thank you for sharing, that's, it's so special. - It is and knowing like how much of the roots tie back to the show and what this show means to my life and to her life. - Yeah. - And knowing, then what it means to everybody else, like there are so few opportunities that we have doing what we do. - Yeah. - Were the personal and the professional sort of intersecting quite this way? - Yeah. - Yeah, I mean, I think we all feel that. - Yeah, yeah, and to know that it's affecting people's lives and they have that meaning. - I do appreciate like when the pandemic happened and like what did everybody do? They turned on the TV and they were either watching the news or escaping and that's as much as we joke about like, "Oh, we're just making TV here." I was like, "No, this is actually a huge deal. "It is so important." And we were the second show back and I still remember trying to figure out how to do it and keep people safe and talking to Steve Veer and Dan and like, and how do we cast this and make sure that we don't. 'Cause I knew that our department would be potentially the problem. Like bringing new people in from the outside that we don't know and I can't meet anymore. - Right. - Like that they could be the vector. And that really the pressure and the scareiness there. - Oh, I can't imagine. - So we could continue making the show and telling the stories that we're telling which were so important at that moment. - Yeah. - Yeah, I felt that. - Just 'cause he does paradise too. You guys are still catching up with whatever season two shit is slapping. It's slapping real hard guys. - I've only seen the first two episodes, but those kids. - Yeah, I mean, excellent. - Great, great. - The one kid that you had shared the scene with was incredible. - Dan, his name's Alexander in real life and he's a sweet, sweet, sweet boy. - Well, all of them, it's like you're equally, you feared them, but also just like mostly, I just like wanted to envelop all of them. - That little girl. - Oh, the sister, the little sister, I know. - Well, I mean, the shot, like when the lightning flashes. - Oh, she's standing there, like looking at you. - Little children of the Corps. - Yes, totally. - And it is nice to be able to be in the room more these days, but yeah, no, it's continuing to work. - I was gonna say you're continuing your streak of finding incredible humans to populate these worlds and you're exceptional at what you do. - Yeah, man. - We, like I'd really, like thank you for talking to me, but like it is a team and I'm proud of the staff that we have sort of raised under us and looking at Tiffany, like it is never, like just 'cause I'm the one sitting here right now, like it is always a collaborative effort in terms of getting the right person in front of the camera at the end of the day. It's so much fun. I love that. I would, like it absolutely seeing the right person there and how it comes together is so much fun. That's a cool job. - Well, it makes such a difference. - Last part, we can go. 'Cause for me, like I don't know how you guys feel about this, but like I always talk about auditioning as if I don't know anybody, I've never met them before and I have a kickball team. I wanna pick the person that looks like they know how to play kickball. And I say that to say that like so much of it is confidence in making a choice and then allow them to redirect you, you know what I'm saying? But like come in with a perspective. Come in with something that's like this is a strong take and they say like that was a strong take. Can we try it this way? Do you agree with that? Is there anything that you feel like like you wanna give to actors? Because it's such a vulnerable thing. Like I remember early in the audition process, like if I didn't hit it and you hear that thank you and you just sort of tuck tail and you go out and I had to teach myself to be like, you know what, can I do that one more time? - Yeah. - You know what I'm saying? Just like you spent all this time, you wanna do what you wanted to do in the room and then be okay with that. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen but is there any advice overall in terms of like how to bring your best self to something? - That is one of the perks to me of a self-tape world. - Yeah. - Being like, ah, I did not like that. I mean, I'm just doing again. - Sure. - But yeah, in the room to say, you know, I, that one, can I please, like I'm so sorry, can I please just one more swing at it? - Yeah. - Or can I take it from the section or whatever. Like I'm, yeah, I support that. Like we get it's a craft and like it's not like you only get one take on set. So yeah, no, I think that's important. And I think it's important to remember you're bringing so much of your, here's the pro and the concept. You're bringing so much of yourself to it. And so bring yourself to it. Like you're not inventing a character most of the time out of whole cloth. Like those roles are rare. - Yeah. - Um, so bring yourself to it and the hard part is on your more vulnerable because you're bringing yourself to it. But know that like, like you were saying, then it's just not you. - Right. - Like it wasn't because you screwed anything up. We are good enough at our job that we're not setting you up to do a bad job. - Sure, sure, sure. - We did do a good job. - Yeah. - You just weren't this. And I think that is the biggest takeaway that people should have to me in terms of trying to comfort themselves. So like it's, it's just the nature of the business and to breathe easy and let those things go. Like I said, easier said than done well aware. Well aware, yeah. But wait, can I bring up one thing before we go? - Yeah. - There was one more table read. - 'Cause we said the last table read was 105. - Yeah. - But then we had one, did we? - In the production. - In the bottle of the waiting room. - Yeah. - We did do it too. You said that. (laughing) - YouTube. - Look how mad it is. It's just like, I think we had one. - I love that when I ran into Josh at this party. He was like, you were right. I was like, I was. - Yeah. And I had the photographic proof. - Yeah. - 'Cause it was such a big deal for me 'cause I didn't get to go to any of them at the beginning. - Yeah. - Because I was a new guy and I was so busy. - Sure. - And then by time I finally could breathe, they weren't doing them anymore. So. - Yeah, we did do that one. - Yeah. - Yeah. - One table read for that episode. - Yeah. - Which is fitting as it was written by Becca who was a playwright and it did feel like a play. - It was a big play. - Yeah. And having everybody in the room together was beautiful and inappropriate for that episode. - Yeah. - Yeah. 'Cause I, again, usually when I read, I'm at like 80%. - Right. - You, sir. I'm 100. (laughs) - You think Sterling does anything at less than 100? - No, but I had never been on the receiving end of it before. And there was a moment where there's a nurse shutting you down. And I remember you were like daring me with your eyes to look away. And I'm like, I'm getting a whole lot of Sterling to keep my own right now. - Yeah. - But I can't blink. And finally you turned away. I'm like, I think I went myself a little bit. (laughs) - Sterling was like, I think you made a mistake. (laughs) I'm Sterling K. Brown. (laughs) I don't know who you think you're casting. - With me. - Yeah. - I'm the guy. - I feel it all that. - From that other audition you got to that moment. - That's actually hilarious. - So yeah, it was so much fun getting to be in that room. So when you guys were like, man, it didn't happen. I'm like, no. - It did happen I was there. - It was a fun day. - Thank you so much for coming to talk to us. - Josh, thank you so much for making it happen. - Thank you guys so much. I'm so appreciative of you guys and the whole experience. I'm very flattered to be here. - We are so grateful to you for the whole experience as well. And thanks for sharing so much of your life and your story and it's so fast. I know people are gonna love it. - Josh, would you do us a favor, please, sir? Would you look into your camera? And would you tell them the name of our podcast, please? - That was us. - Nailed it. - One, two, three. - One, two. - That was amazing. (upbeat music) - That was us as filmed at Rabbit Green Studios and produced by Rabbit Green Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. That was us. - That was a HitGum podcast.