Jordan Jensen

Guys, hi, it's me, Neil Brennan, and this is the Blocks podcast. It's also gonna be another podcast, but don't worry about that. It'll be on RIP, the things behind you. You can look that up. She's a very funny person, very funny comedian. She's got an Netflix special called "Take Me With You." "Take Me With You," which I don't remember the. I'm assuming it's about your dad. Your dad? "Take Me With You?" No. Oh, what that means? Yeah. Uh, men in general, or humanity. We're gonna get into it. She's touring now. She tours all the time. My f-stop is. Why do. Her f-stop is why. We had to do some levels. We had to check some levels. Her f-stop. My toe told someone to open her f-stop or close it, actually. It's Jordan Jensen, guys. Yeah. Okay, so Jordan, we'll do some housekeeping. I did your podcast. Then we were supposed to do mine. You forgot. I didn't like it. I hurt my feelings for it. We'll go for six weeks, which is pretty short for me. That's a short grudge for me. Six weeks. Man, maybe. Maybe. I mean, I could go up to eight and down to four. Do you have paranoid personality disorder? I don't. I just. You could say it's narcissism. You could say it's hypersensitivity. You could say it's ego. You could say. Or just like. You know what it is? It applies to you. One of her. Let's just get right into the blocks. Look her up everywhere. We're not gonna do the thing where we talk about people we know or whatever. One of her blocks. Co-dependency. Okay. I'm a severely co-dependent person. So it doesn't seem like I. I seem very boundary to it. Because I used to not be. So now when I make an appointment with somebody, it's like, "Hey, my boundary says we have an appointment." Now, I will note I'm chronically late, but not that. I don't forget stuff. So when you violated my boundary of not of forgetting, I get very mad. Because it's. I find it so rude. I get like blinded by it. By how rude and disrespectful, and just like the litany. Wow, miserable existence. What a miserable, miserable. Well, why do you think it would be miserable? Well, there's human error, you're not. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, scheduling, we got apps. Well, also, you need to set a boundary that says, "If you cancel, I will be super upset." You don't think that's implicit? Not at all. No, everybody cancels podcasts. Everybody forgets them. Everybody cancels shows. Everybody fucks up. If you said, "I'm getting married," and I want you to be there, and I didn't go out and understand that. Because there's a pre-established boundary around that. But a podcast. Getting mad about a podcast. No, no, no. It's a mad. It's a mad self-repeatly. I'm aging myself? Yeah, to get mad when everybody cancels a podcast and to hold on to six weeks of anger, you're just going to die early. We'll see. I have a boy can dream. Yeah, I don't think people should. It was just like literally 10 minutes before you were like, "I'm not even in New York." Yeah, I wasn't. Yeah. Like, that's pretty rude. I don't think that's standard. You don't think that's beyond a level. You think that's like acceptable rudeness, or not even a rudeness. Just like, "Eh, that's what happens." I think it's yeah, it's what happens. I mean, I've had people cancel me all the time. It sucks. It for sure sucks. You know what about scheduling? Do you not have like a shit you have to do? Well, probably since then, I've kind of handed scheduling over to my manager because I'm so bad at it. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I guess podcasts are. But then you do that because you do think it's important. I think it's important not to fuck people over. I get irritated when people cancel. I think I had the luxury of doing a podcast with Ian so people canceled. It was just like kind of a relief. Yeah. Because it just meant we could hang out and not do the weird thing. And then when I started RIP, I was like, "Oh, fuck, it really does fuck me when people cancel because it's just me." And then I hit up my manager and I was like, "I'm missing shit left and right. We just have to like stay on this." But that time was a genuine complete-- Yeah, I get it. I just as an adult with things that I am scared, making intents a bit like, "Yo, do you mind?" Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not like I, you know, I turned down. I turned down Saudi Arabia to do that podcast. To do the podcast with you. Okay, so tell me about your codependency. Whatever I was doing probably out of New York was probably a codependent thing. You were seeing somebody at that point? I probably was trying to manufacture some level of closeness by going on a trip with somebody spontaneously. Tell them to go. Yeah, I don't remember when that was, but yeah, it was probably something like that. I pretty much get hijacked entirely by my codependency. I think addiction is in there too, because I'm like sex and love addict. So yeah, if like, say I'm like in a fight with my partner, I'll just like miss an entire slew of shows just because it's the dominant thing. What do you do when you're just-- you've set up like a war room of like what you're doing about this conflict? It's mostly like calling, like ducking into things in Manhattan being like, please pick up, please pick up, please talk to me. It's a lot of like that. Yeah. Those are real low lows. Yeah, I seem to be compiled of them. Low lows. Well, there's high highs and low lows, but that doesn't seem to be any middle ground. We're telling about the high highs since we're here. The high highs would be like the love bombing phase, the sex phase, the right before the blow-up phase, the after the blow-up phase, the-- we got over it and now we're back together phase, all of that. Do you tell yourself stories about the other person? What do you mean? Do I make shit up? Well, no, not make shit up. But if it is a high, high. It hurts if it's a low low and then you get back together. What do you think-- I mean, I always have the theory that like when people get back together, men pretend to be thoughtful for six weeks and women pretend to be sexual. And then-- It's such a good point. It's such a good point. And then they just like fall off like, "Oh, then everybody just reverts back to what they actually are." I think I was caught. I mean, the story that I have is-- I mean, this is the whole like-- I like went to school for philosophy. And like whatever philosopher I was reading is what I believed. You know what I mean? Like this is why I get in so much trouble politically. Because like one day I'll talk to somebody who's on the one side of things and I'll be like 100% I've drank. Where do I sign? Yeah, totally. And then the next day. And I do think that that's very helpful for comedy. And it's very helpful for co-dependency. Because it means I can adapt to anybody's. And it is like a childhood thing. Or my dad would be like, "I think this." And I'd be like, "Yeah." And then my mom would be like, "This is about your dad." And I'd be like, "Yeah, fuck that guy." You know what I mean? So I learned to be very adaptive. And I think that I-- I vacillate in relationships where I'll be like, "This is the right thing for me because it's going to educate me on this." And this and this about myself. And then I'll switch to a different one. And I'll be like, "This will educate me on this." And this about myself. And I'll just kind of bend myself into whatever position. It allows me to have my addiction met while also justifying it with a story. The addiction is just the action. The action of the relationship. Not being alone, yeah. Oh, right. Because the special-- a lot of the jokes were like, I'm picturing you alone, fat, and in a t-shirt. Yeah. I don't even remember the specifics. But yeah, too. But I remember where I was when I listened to-- I was watching it and then I'd walk. I was in Austin. I don't know when it was-- whenever it came out. And it was like, I was just picturing a fat girl in an oversized t-shirt. Right. And if I'm alone, I'm worried I'll revert. There, yeah. Which I don't ever-- When I'm alone. It never gets back there. It's always good. So you like being alone, but you don't trust it? I like being alone because when I'm alone, all of my friends that I have completely neglected because of love addiction come out of the woodwork and all of a sudden I'm surrounded with actual unconditional love, which is what I act. Truly want. Yeah. So I can fulfill the love addiction with my friends, which is a positive way to fill it. But then the sex addiction comes into place and I get monopolized by that. When you think about the guys after it's over, are you mad at them? No. You realize like you were a fool? I'm like, I'm bad. Oh, okay. Bad choice or bad in your-- in your asses. Bad choice, bad in my asses. I think it's like I get a little disturbed by how long I was able to keep it up for sure. I'm like, whoa, you really shapeshift. Pretty hard there. You were shapeshifting to please them. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I shapeshift. And then I, yeah, it's like it becomes very like underdog. So I think I'm also addicted to that feeling of getting broken up with or breaking up and then having this underdog like, um, you know, I like, well, listen to hardcore a lot and walk around and be like, I'm a loner and nobody loves me. And I think I kind of get off on that feeling. So then the relationships I enter are inherently unsustainable because I'm kind of addicted to that being a bandit. You're trying to get back to the honeymoon, the man, you're trying to get back to you in the woods by yourself. Yeah, I'm trying to get back to just like, there's mud on my face and I'm like, damn, I just got the shit kicked out of me. Like, that's how I feel the best, probably. Or the most manic, which is the best. Have you had a good guy that you fucking ruined? Yeah, great. I had a sweet guy that, and I know you're watching this and I'm not referring to you. I had a sweet guy a few guys ago that was, I mean, I love him. I'm still friends with him and he's the best, but yeah, totally. like sabotaged it by being a psycho. - Was it boring? Were you bored? Is that why you did it? Or you just did it 'cause that's what the machine does. - I didn't respect him. I didn't respect him at all. And it's like if I'm in a stable relationship where I'm getting my needs met, it doesn't matter. If like the need that I need met is somebody being like slightly superior to me in the way that they act towards me. And if I don't get that, I can't, I go crazy. - So if they're like thoughtful and considerate and you're like, boo. - If I become like the dominant force in their life and which is like what my child's itself wants, this for somebody to be like, I'm totally committed to you. But then my like intellectual self is like, you shouldn't be of this person, it's holding you back. They don't have anything of their own going on. You have to get out of this, you have to run, you have to bail or else they're gonna make you stupid. - They're gonna make you stupid. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like if somebody doesn't have, if somebody isn't elite to me, then I'm worried that they'll be like. - But I feel like you're, I bet you have a lot of different categories of aledeness. - Yeah, I mean there's one category that made, the humor category is the most elite to me. Like if somebody had, you can be retarded and have dropped out of it. - I would, I'm picturing like physically like lumberjacks. - No fucking way, no. - Oh, okay. - I mean, the lumberjack is cool for sex and for validation, but if the humor isn't there, if there isn't an analytical humor thing, I can't hang, I get so aggressive and angry. If they don't see it, if somebody walks in and they don't recognize that that person is a fool and I go, that person's a fool and they go, "Don't be," and they go, "Be nice, Jordan." - Oh, yeah, but you seem like a good guy. - I'm doing the other guy. The guy you're not interested in. - If so. - No, yeah, exactly. - Jordan, come on, come on. - Jordan, come on. - Why are you being negative? - Yeah. Yeah, if I'm getting into a fight with a cab driver who's obviously being insane and they're like, you're mean to people who are, you know. - Insane, and you say, and people that are insane. - Yeah. - And people that are. - Haven't you had that before where you're like, how do you not see the same reality that all day, every day? - Yeah, right. That, I can't tell, and it makes me belittle people until they're dust. - What's the meanest thing you've ever said to somebody in that situation? - What's the meanest thing? - 'Cause it's, I mean, the male female dynamic generally is like, especially if your comedian is like, I'm a comedian, so I'm like, walk around like fucking, no, no, I know why, let me explain to you what's wrong with everything. - It's the best. - Oh. - It's the best. - It's a lifestyle. It's an, it's an, it's an ideal, it's incredible. - But it also means that the time, I mean, me and you are both similar in this way that when we have the spiritual connection of like interconnectedness and all that, it's so huge. Like it's so, I don't know, like the parallel between those things, like in order for me to, I think that we are smart people and we walk into the zone of just like, oh shit, I don't matter, everything is connected, there is this epic amount of freedom, there's so much like beauty and stuff like that that it's almost like I balance it out by being like, and everybody's a piece of shit and they don't know shit about shit. I can't walk around permanently being like, - In awe and wonder. - In awe and wonder and also, I think we both have an understanding that if I lived the exact life as the Uber driver that entire time or the taxi driver, I would end up that retard as well. I do know that, I'm very conscious of that. - I don't, oh, the idea of like he's choosing this. It's like, no, this is just what I was born like and then either the world affirmed it or I sort of couldn't. - Yeah. - The world tried to affirm it. I was like, it's not gonna work. - Yeah, but that makes you more critical. I mean, I don't think, I don't know if it makes you more critical, but it makes you more honest with how you're feeling because you're not contriving. The meanest thing I've said to somebody is, you are manufacturing a narrative for yourself and for you to enter the actual reality of what's going on would mean collapsing your entire persona. So you can't see reality. That's like the meanest thing I say and that's the thing that annoys me. - That's pretty total. - It's so fucked up. It's like when somebody goes, you've changed. It's like the meanest thing you could say to somebody. You've changed. But that's probably, I don't like when somebody is like, they're like, I want to, like for instance when somebody goes, I think I'm actually gonna give up gossiping. I'm like, you don't know yourself. You have no idea what's going on. - Oh, people turning over new leaf is like, don't, I literally, when people, I remember somebody lost weight and I was like, and they're like, and I go, I'm, unless you're actually doing this, I'm not gonna invest in this new you. - Yeah. - 'Cause I don't wanna, I know how this goes. - Yeah. - But I also think a lot of life in relationships is watching your loved ones try on all these different identities and fads and being like, I love you either way. - Yeah. - And it is a funny, it's a funny, there's a Jerry Sinful to joke about. - Loyalty to any one sports team is pretty hard to justify. Because the players are always changing. The team can move to another city. - You're actually rooting for the clothes when you get right down to it. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. - And it's like, we're rooting for like, - That's so funny. - The body? - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Like I like you, I like who I think you are and you're probably gonna be that, even though right now you're born again, or right now you're whatever the fuck you're trying. And again, and then I do it. I'm right now I'm, and then you go, okay, you know what I'm doing? - I'm the, yeah, crossfit or whatever. - Yeah. - It's all a fad. And it's like, basically you're gonna revert back to it. - And I'll love that somebody is turning it, that there are guys who turns over a new leaf. That's great and funny to me. But it is like, when that means that my way of existing is wrong, doesn't, it doesn't work. I mean, like yesterday I did a podcast with my friends sit and with Ian and they just were going in on me at how harsh they are. Ian was like, you always make fun of me for bringing up my dad so much. And I was like, yeah, you bring up your dad too much. And he was like, that really hurts my feelings. And I was like, all right, I'll stop saying it. And he was like, but you believe it. And I was like, 100%. What is going on? And I can't, man, I can't alter my perception because somebody else is hurt by my idea, by my thoughts. And that really drives me crazy. It's when somebody is like, I don't, the way that you're thinking is inherently not correct. I'm like, that doesn't make, then you have to remove yourself from me because you can't manufacture anything. I can't, I have this, you ever have this issue with your mom where you're like, I know what you actually, I, again, when someone's being supportive, but when they go like, yeah, great. And you can hear their real opinion in the notes of, yeah, great. Yeah, totally. And mom's a good and bad example, but like, just like, ah. So what do you, you think you're going to essentially, you think you're going to change my essence based on a decision that you just made? Yeah. And are going to, are not going to stick with. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a bit too big an ask. It's too big of an ask. It's not, you're never, you're barking for the wrong tree. Yeah, that's, that drives me nuts. And also you, the reason why you need me to change my thought processes because the inherent truth that I'm saying what's going on, you don't want to be the truth. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yes. Like with Ian, he's like, I don't want to be, I don't want to be the guy who brings up my dad too much. And I'm like, I can't change that by changing my mind. Yes, and also, I love you, and I love you so much. Of course, it's fun, great. But I'm saying like, and bring up your dad, dad. However, I'm really interested. Yeah. Um, uh, so, so yeah, but like, but yeah, that's a very funny concept of like, you think I'm gonna, you know what I'm like. You know what I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, totally. And I, you ever have a friend who changes, and then they know you don't, I've, I've had a friend who was going into something that he knew I didn't agree with. So I knew when he started, I just wasn't gonna hear from him for a while. Yeah. And then, and then, and then enough time passed where he was like, I knew when he came back that it was over. I mean, that happens. Yeah, every single time with my friend Harry. Hi, Harry. He'll be like, I knew you went dark because you went back, you went back into some bullshit. Oh, right. You do it. Oh, you did. You go like, well, I can't go to Harry because. Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to do better with it. I'm trying to like, dissociate and then just say the reality that's going on. Being like, yeah, I'm doing this thing. And I, I know that you don't like it, but I'm gonna tell you that I'm doing it. Because I do think that the shame that I get from the build-up of not being honest destroys whatever the thing that I'm participating in. Whatever, even if it's the friendship or if it's whatever it is. You're a real double winner in that you're very analytical and have a lot of problems. Yeah. It's a lot of problems, but you're like, hey, yeah, you know how you'll watch commercial and they'll go like, ask your doctor if you're like, I don't have my doctor. Like, I don't, I don't go into doctor's office with any confidence whatsoever. I don't go like, yeah, he knows I'm common. I don't, they don't, it feels like going to the DMV most of the time. And then you, you don't know how to switch. You know, what's near you, what's, it just feels if for what they call forbidding. But you can, there is a better way, guys. And I didn't know what Zachdach was until recently and it turns out it's super helpful, super cool and far more intuitive than whatever, however you're interacting with your healthcare. I promise you this is better. You can find basically just load in what you're looking for. If you have insurance, you load in the kind of insurance you have and then they will show you the kind of doctors. you and they also have you can get making a woman on the site. It's super simple. You don't have to call and wait for them to call you back and you're saying your name into the thing. I'm like, it's Neil Brennan. No, no, I'm not. And by the way, this is Dennis. This is eye doctor. This is regular doctor. This is cardiologist. This is this is internist. This is proctologist. I'm not saying how these are rolling off the tongue. So simply don't worry about my health. So basically, Zach doc is free app website helps you find a book high quality in network doctor. So you can find someone you love. Stop putting off those doctors appointments and go to zock doc.com/neal to find an instantly book a doctor you love today that zo c d o c dot com slash NEAL, zock doc dot com slash Neil. Thank you, zock doc for supporting this message. Guys, this father's day mean a lot to you mean neither. You know me. I don't like, I don't like gifts like that. But they they're saying, you know, dads love puns. So why don't you give them a gift that's no joke. A Toshi Bade. Yeah, I will say dads do love toilets and they like power washing, right? Can we all agree? Those are the two things dads love maybe more than anything. Toshi Bade transforms your bathroom wellness for life, gut to butt to bowl. Soothe your bottom with instantly warm water that never runs cold. 99% of people who wash with Toshi warm water, but days feel cleaner and fresher after going to the bathroom. Toshi Ebadez instantly modernize your daily routine and bathroom with a heated seat adjustable water temperature and a powerful yet gentle dryer. Every Toshi Badez easily attaches to existing toilet without the need for additional plumbing. Ebadez only require an outlet. Guys, we're talking about a daily decadence with practical benefits over half of the people who wash with Toshi, soothe their hemorrhoids and 9 out of 10 people, reduce itching and discomfort. Maybe I'm a part of it. Maybe I'm not. Instead of wiping endlessly with toilet paper, Toshi pristinely removes 99% of bacteria while protecting your natural skin barrier thanks to one natural ingredient fresh water. Installation is simple and takes about 10 minutes to complete. Literally anyone can do it, but you want a personal endorsement? This is easy. I've ordered three Tushies in my day. I've installed. Well, one of them I still haven't used. So that's why I've a lot to look forward to there. And you feel like a man, you feel like you accomplished something. But yet it takes eight minutes, but you get the self esteem like it took two hours. You feel like a real, you know, cigarette, smoke and t-shirt wear and, you know, grab it. Grab it and it's junk type dad. It's easy, but it's a little challenge. It's not, no, it's not even. I'm not even saying it's challenging. You'll say tell your girl it was challenging or tell your friends like, oh, yeah, but it wasn't hard. And I just recently disassembled one and moved every Hello Tushie today comes with a 30 day hassle free return and a 12-month warranty. Here's the call to action. Buckle your face. Stop guessing your clean. Start feeling it for a limited time. Our listeners get 10% off their first biday order when you use code NEAL a checkout. That's 10% off your first biday order at Hello Tushie, H-E-L-L-O-T-U-S-H-Y.com with promo code NEAL. Yeah. It's a lot of problems, but you're like, you like having them and you like sifting through them. I like sifting through them. And also, there is the feeling of like, yeah, you go to therapy and they're like, just do this. And I'm like, we all, we both, we both know sitting. I know what I'm supposed to do. Yeah. Of course, I know what I'm supposed to do. But there's no fucking way. I'll do it for five minutes. For five minutes, I'll be like, okay, fine. I'll resist. But I'm gonna fucking do it. And like I pick and choose the things that I, they're, yeah, I mean, I think this is the no free will thing, but it is like the whole idea that I'm just, I'm gonna all of a sudden be able to stand up and be like a different person. I can't. It's not gonna happen. And I don't want that to happen. But and this speaks to addiction, you have changed. Yeah. I have how you knew you weren't supposed to drink into drugs. Yeah. How did you stop? I quit drinking because I'm like drinking was just like for me a food addiction. It wasn't like I was addicted to getting drunk. It was just consumption. And I was just like, okay, if I have to choose between food or alcohol, I'm gonna choose food. And also drinking would make, because I run so slow, drinking would make me do coke. And then coke was something that I if I did, I just couldn't stop doing it. So I kind of drinking was like, if I don't drink, I eat better. I feel better. And I don't do coke. Quitting coke was harder. But I think the way that I quit coke was, I mean, I usually use comedy to threaten everything. Like I'm like, if you do coke, comedy will get will be in the compromise. Yeah. And that helps me quit. But also I just ran it into the ground. I mean, I just ran it. You did everything you could do. You did, you accomplished everything. I did all, I did so much coke. And then I was like, all right, I've done that. I know exactly what that looks like. And I was entertaining conversations with people that weren't intelligent on coke. And I was like, oh, shit, I'm like, thinking these people are having interesting conversations. And the coke is telling me that I'm interested in interesting conversations. And I have to stop doing that. I'm assuming I've done, I've done coke once. I think I'd remember if I'd done it more, right? You can have actually interesting conversations on it. I'm assuming nobody can. It's kind of not possible. So you and I, people who like talking, like talking to each other, like basically the same things couldn't do coke and keep it interesting. No, we would do coke. And then it would get to a really like, it first of all, it takes you right to a narcissistic level. It takes you to like this feeling of like everything I'm doing is elite. So then we would just be talking at each other about how we're doing is correct, which there's no growth there. That's like a stump. There's no like self, you're not, there's no like, it's not like mushrooms. We're like, holy shit. I have to change this or like holy shit. This will lead to growth. It just validates exactly where you are. So nothing grows. It's just you talking to somebody and being like, totally, yes, totally, yes, and it's that for however long the bag was. And it's totally yes about whatever nonsense they mention, whatever it is. It's just like you affirm their nonsense. Yeah. You'll throw another nonsense. Yeah. Flare up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it just and then it's six. Yeah. And then the next day, it's gone. You don't you don't go, Hey, that was cool. What we talked about that never happened. No, it's gone. It's gone. When the coke is gone, that that feeling is gone. It's like when you're on Molly and you're like in love with somebody and then the Molly was off and you're like, Jesus. Yeah. It's not mushrooms and LSD. It lasts. Yeah. You can have these giant realizations on LSD that last your entire life. But with coke, it's just like it's the next day. You're like, well, how long do we talk about your relationship? So how long do we do it for? Did you like in years was? It was one year. Oh, you won't leave it for a year. I mean, I was fine. And then I like went hard for like a year because I was an intern. I was in grad school and I was doing comedy and I was dating somebody. So I just would do a bunch of coke and I could like get through all of these. You could have just said I was dating somebody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I was dating somebody who did coke. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So and then you were like, oh, this is stupid. Then yeah, me and that guy split up to the coke. Or maybe what was it? No, it was a day that I was just like, this is too much. It was getting weird. I was getting, it was getting to the point where like I got pulled over and I was super fucked up on coke. I got pulled over drunks I was going to get coke. It was just stuff like that where I was like, you know, when I was like losing contact with my friends who don't do coke or I love. And then I went home one day and I was like, mom, I think I'm addicted to coke. And she was like, how's that going for you? Which is her classic line? And I was like, it's bad. And saying I'm addicted to it got me to stop. Okay. That like it, you didn't need to go to a program or anything? No, I don't, I have never been to air. I go to SLA for sex and love it. But the addiction, the food addiction is the biggest one. I basically can't eat sugar because I sugar addict because I ate it so much as a child. So do you have to keep your eye on it all the time? Yeah. All the time. Yeah. It sucks ass. I mean, it's, the thing is, is like, I'm pretty good except for with sugar. Like, I'm not going to eat a bunch of fast food. But sugar, if it's start, if I have one, it's just like, sugar is really like, you can feel because if I eat sugar, if I'm in like, I used to have a sugar day, every Sunday, I would do just pretty much all day. Based on the rock with the rock would do it. You ever see the rock on the rock's Instagram every Sunday. It's like pancakes and just garbage. Oh, you should don't watch it. And so, but and then on Monday, you're like, I need some sugar. But by Wednesday, you don't even think about it. You would obviously. Yeah. For me, it's like, I have to cleanse it out. I have to do like a huge sugar cleanse, get it all out of my system. And I mean, my body craves it for like two weeks and then I can get it out. and then I don't crave it. But it is like, it's also when I stop eating sugar, I start eating more food, like more food, and then I don't want sugar. But if I'm eating sugar, I'm only eating sugar, and I'm cutting all of these meals just so that I can have sugar. People are giving me Swedish fish, which are my favorite at the meat and greets. I'm eating them in the green room. I'm staying up all night 'cause I'm tweaked out, and then I need sugar 'cause my blood sugar's dropping. Like, I just becomes this fucking insane cycle, 'cause I used to have type 2 diabetes, so I think my body is very like, give me sugar. But. - When did you have, when did you get type 2? - Like, sixth grade. It was a baby, your fifth grade, yeah. - Yeah. - That's the, I mean, did you have the blindness thing? Where'd you go blind for a second? - No, I didn't have type 1, I had type 1. - No, no, no, no, but I know people, it's just like you just eat too much. It's just a dietary thing, right? - Yeah. - If you, I know people who got like a blackout on a plane from eating, like he needed to change his diet. - I fainted on a few planes, but I don't know if that's what it was for. - No, yeah, it was, it was, yeah. - No, and then I became anorexic in high school, and then I got rid of it by not eating. - No, no, no, no, no, you figured out like, oh, wait, I have a solution. - Yeah, I have a solution, I found the solution, yeah. I started fucking in people and not eating, and I was like, got rid of it. - Oh, okay, so you start, you stopped eating. - Yeah. - Started fucking. - Yeah. - Go on, tell me more. - It was just the same dopamine. It was like, oh, I can have a boyfriend if I don't eat. So then I just didn't eat, and I was able to have a boyfriend. And I was like, this is so fun. - Did you like having, so it wasn't about like a bunch of guys? It was just one, it was, you were one guy. It was like always one guy. - A tension from, constant attention from one guy. - Yeah. I really just wanted to get out of my household, and my friends' parents were getting upset that I was always at their house. So I figured if I could get a boyfriend, I could just stay with him all the time. So then I did that, and I was so, I'm like so addicted to physical contact and stuff. So once I got that, it was just like, my brain was just like, the only reason you got this is because you lost weight from not eating, you must just continue not eating. And then I was like, and then that's just, you know, here's what's fucked up, that is reality. That is a devastating reality. If you are skinny, you may have boyfriend. That is like modus ponens logic equation, that is a hundred percent sound. Isn't that fucked up? It's a hundred percent true. And I lived it. - You don't think there's a point where, I hate to step on modus ponens. Is that, two skinny guys are not. - Not true. Not even, you don't think that there is a two skinny. - Nope, there's a two fat, and it comes up pretty good. - There's a two fat, and it's not very, it's not a big, very good one. - You're not deathly, I mean, you know, the lowest I've ever been is like 145, you know? But like, yeah, no, people will take the two skinny. Small, insecure Jews will take the two skinny. - You're getting, now you're narrowing it. - Well, it's true. You've seen it. - You've seen it. - Right, but I too, I mean, I've, I've. - Have you gone to skinny? - No, but I've made the conscious decision if I met a girl that I would be like, you're two skinny, she's two skinny. Like, because I know about eating dishes. - Yeah, but your gag reflex informs you about the fat people, but your mind informs you about the skinny people. - Ah, two skinny, the gag reflex comes. - It does. - So you know about, you know that I have a gag reflex about them, can I? - That's like, can you, that's like fucking, you know, people who are starved, right? Like bone. - Yeah, but, you know, it, yes, or else, but also I live in LA for a long time. So like, you know, it gets pretty wild. - Yeah. - In terms of like, you know, juice and cleanses and just like, no, this shit, it's wild. So there is, there is a two skinny. I love the idea that if skinny get boyfriend. - It's true. - I love the simplicity of it. - It's so fucked up, but it is true. I mean, you can't, yeah, you can obviously go over into the deep end, but even if, even if you rejected that skinny girl, there will be somebody, yeah. There will be somebody who is attractive and, a little, who will take her. It's not just like an ugly guy. Whereas like, yeah, if you're fat, there is no fat. - There's no, there's no inverted. - Yeah, I mean, it could be another fat guy. - There's a convert fat rule, we're like, yeah. - Have you had to, what have you learned in SLA? - What's the big thing? I mean, a big part of it is like making amends to people who you've kind of like used as validation. Like, you've been like, I'm gonna keep this person around because they give me validation and you're not even sexual validation or. Like, you know, when you have a, like, I would have a boyfriend and then, but I wouldn't be getting something from him. So I'd rope in some other people that were in love with me to be like, I'll get other things and I'll lead them on. - Not fuck 'em, probably, most of them. - Not fuck 'em. - And then maybe like. - If you were losing them, you'd fuck 'em, but not. - Right, exactly. And then like, I'm shoring up that relationship. And then another thing is, it's like, I learned from it that I was, the ameshment thing is like, I basically thought that if me and somebody have opposing feelings or ideas or moments of being separate people, that that was abandonment. - Yeah, that, I mean, that's a tough, everyone doesn't have that. You know, I mean, it's the co-dependent thing of like, if somebody doesn't text you back, you're never gonna see him again. Like, I guess that relationship's over. - I just got to the point in my life where when I break up with somebody, I'm like, damn, that's their loss as well. Like, it used to be like, it's just me suffering 'cause they won't miss me. And now I'm like, oh, that sucks, that sucks for them, that they won't. - What do you think the difference is? Netflix? - Dude, honestly. Honestly? No. - No, no. I don't know, yeah. Whatever you think you're seeing on her face, when she said, honestly, you're not seeing it. - It is crazy, I'm so happy. Dude, if I- - You're a self-esteem. - It's like, if I have a bad set, all of a sudden I'm texting my ex. If I have a good set, I'm like, who? - Yeah. - What happened was I started realizing that every time something good happened, I was making it bad in my head. Like, anytime somebody validated me or was like, I really love you, I would be like, yeah, but you're saying that because of this. And now I just like allow it to be true. - That it might be true. You don't agree with them, but- - Yeah, I don't agree with them, but yeah, totally. But I'm like, okay. - You can see how a person would think that you're pretty or smart or funny or whatever. - Or I just, I just believe it. Like I just am like, okay, they're saying, I don't believe it about me, but I believe that they think that. I'm like, somebody could think that. Even if I- - What do you think when you look in the mirror? And I mean that actually, and like, proverbially. - Proverbially, I think it's like- - Appeal, like, what categories do you rate yourself in? And what's the rating? - I think the appeal of me is that if you're with me, you feel like you're kind of in on, you get like to see behind the scenes a little bit because I feel like it's mostly dominant. I'm mostly dominant presenting. So if you're with me, you get to see more of a soft side, which I think is the, I think that's the allure of being like, I'd like to see Jordan when she's not on one. And then, but physically, like actually, I think it's probably like a strength thing. I think there's like a, when I've talked to people about it, it's like you're not gonna break, I'm evenly matched, which I think is the appeal. - The thing about seeing behind the curtain, does it feel like you're losing a little bit when you let them behind the curtain? Like does it feel like you've lost? 'Cause it's vulnerable, do you like being vulnerable? Is it, are you either averse to being vulnerable or are you dying to be vulnerable? 'Cause it seems like you could go either way. - Interesting. I think I am dying to be vulnerable for sure. And I also think, I also, I think I do this thing where I'm like, because you saw me vulnerable, you owe me, you owe me something. Like you owe me a certain level of allegiance. And that is a weird thing where I'm like, you can't abandon me because you saw me vulnerable. And if you saw me vulnerable, that's you making a commitment to keep things going. But I don't-- - But that wasn't their decision. - It wasn't their decision and it's also, that's dismissing the fact that my, that's basically being like, I'm gonna show you the monster behind the curtain, but you can't leave. And it's like, I have to accept that me being vulnerable is not something that is, that doesn't mean that I showed them some horrendous thing that now they can't-- - Or that you showed them some great thing. It's kind of like-- - Yeah, I don't know. - It's just reality, yeah, totally. But yeah, I think that, yeah, I mean, the mere thing physically, it's always apologetic. I'm very apologetic. - I don't even mean like, how do you look? I just mean like, are you, you start, it seems like you think more of yourself than you used to. And I don't mean physically. I just mean like, you used to think you were-- - The more self-deception I cut out, the more I think of myself. So the more like, the more things that I, like, when I'm being self-deceptive, my entire life falls apart. Like when I'm lying to myself and staying in a relationship even though I don't want to be in it, when I'm binge eating sugar, even though that I shouldn't, when I'm dodging my friends, because then I really start to hate myself. Like when I start, when the lying creeps in, like the lying to myself, I like become something to my-- I like my past. changes and I get really weird but if I stand by what I'm doing then my so but it's like a very active thing that I have to do like I have to be like it's also counter intuitive for most people because I think most people are lying and not being honest yeah and they go like no this is and it's like no dude you're eating you're losing credibility with yourself yeah yeah yeah totally and the minute you start being like honest about what you are then you'll she will you I've never heard someone say that that's such a great I mean it's kind of the point of 12 step groups yeah of like if you're honest it's better it's always better and sometimes being honest means not compulsively being honest like that's the thing that I had before where I'd be like having a thought that I shouldn't say out loud because I knew it was going to be painful to somebody you know what I mean or like or like say we walk into a bar and I had been there with a previous boyfriend or something yeah I would go oh yeah I came here with my ex there's no reason to say yeah you're going on a date with somebody why would you say that to them but I would do these compulsive things and now I'm like I can keep shit for myself and this idea that comes up that's like say it say it I'm like I'm not gonna say well yeah that's being aggressive and shitty and be under the guise of like it's when people are like I'm just being honest yeah yeah totally it's it you're just being nasty yeah and that wears me the fuck down now if you've been there before do you pretend to not where no where the bathroom is how far will you go I would be like I've been here before okay yeah I won't be like huh totally and also there's like stomachs Mexican I've never eaten it yeah yeah yeah yeah totally and yeah there's shit like that that I'm just learning how to do where I'm like yeah you don't have to divulge everything you're allowed to have private conversations that are just between you and somebody it doesn't you know you don't need to expose every party I used to have this fear my OCD used to be very dominated by I'm worried that other people are going to rub off on me and I'll become a different person so what I would do is I would just tell everybody everything all the time and I'd be like just so you know this is who I am to keep why dude to do what you did it like hey I'm not gonna be like you I'm like this I'm like this I'm like this I'm like this so just so you know yeah like like hey just so you know there was a guy in class today and he asked me for my number and I thought that I should tell you and I said no to him but there was a moment where I thought maybe I should but I just want to be honest with you that that's what happened and they're like I don't fucking care and I'm like well just so you know I didn't do it but I did think there was a moment where I thought about doing it for sure so you do in relationships yeah like all the time I do it in relationships is like the big issue yeah totally I don't do well that almost sounds like a like you don't want to be dishonest about anything I don't want to be dishonest I know but the problem is you just kind of have to be totally and it destroys I mean the last relationship I was in I just couldn't I like just everything that I thought I would have to say out loud and because and I think I was like trying to get out of it for sure but it was just like the amount of like power that I have gotten back by just being like I am my own I'm in my own orbit and I'm allowed to have my own fucking thoughts and I don't have to share them which because the only reason I'm sharing them is to tether people to me and being like but I showed you my soft underbelly so you have to stay you have to stay because I showed you these things and I told you who I was and you have to stay and like once I realized that it wasn't this like adorable honesty thing that I was doing in order to like show people my true self but it was this way of like also tethering people to me I was like that's it's that's like a weakness you can't did you would you get mad at people when they weren't tethered to you because you'd been honest or you'd been vulnerable or you'd be yeah would you ever say like I showed you my sc whatever yeah in relationships yeah yeah I'm pretty stable with like friendships and stuff well it feels like you have a lot of I mean this is probably the human condition but you have a lot of like reflexes that are not the who you are who you want to be and you know who you are inside but you still have all these old like old fucking 25 year old reflexes and you're like and then the real you ends up in these situations where you're like why am I here yeah yeah yeah yeah totally and it's because reflexes are reflexive and you can't get out of them yeah totally unless you go to a program yeah almost every day or something almost every day it's just like such a fucking active thing I mean for a while I did this like active thing where every moment I was assessing and I was I was trying to discern and I was being really like aggressive with being the person that I wanted to be and then I think I slid into like I'm just gonna let it go and go sicko mode and now I'm kind of in this place where I'm like I need to be able to observe my behavior passively with acceptance and then that allows me to change more organically than just being like do that go to the gym wake up do that you know I mean yeah and like but yeah I also think that's just aging like I also think like your 20s is all about being like I refuse to be this person I'm gonna I'm gonna be somebody else I'm gonna fucking jury rig this thing into thing that I want and then your 30s you're like fuck I think I just might be this person and I hate it and now like I'm almost 35 and I'm like there is literally no point in hating it and then you start actually being like okay here are things that I like and I am like you start saying like if you don't even think about the parts you hit you can just stop like they will kind of like fade away the the like you won't even be in situ you well maybe you stop being in situations where the the hateable parts flare up yeah and I think there's role playing that can happen I think on stage I can play this role of like fuck that this is stupid that's gay that's bad and then I can also know that like I don't give a fuck what people do with their life you know what I mean yeah and it's like that is okay to have both of those I was gonna ask you because when you're talking about like you would become one of the great co-dependent things is you just become the ideology thing of like oh whatever my mom says on that whenever my dad said on state when I see you doing crowd work you are yourself yeah yeah yeah and you are your point of view is not it's like I know you what you you don't hide what you think right which might be why you like it it's the best yeah it's the best I mean the other day I had this thing where I just was in this like fucked up relationship battle and I was so fun and then I just stepped on stage and was like I get to like take a break from all of this trying to be a good person trying to not be about all of this stuff and I just like you know and I can just exude the rage and I can let it all out and I can be like fuck this fuck that that sucks that's good that's bad and have these like and then but because waking life you're just not allowed to I my favorite thing is giant black and white thinking sweeping generalizations I like people say you shouldn't generalize I was like I've built a very nice life for myself yeah from abs generate you should general racial stereotypes are wrong not if you do them right yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah not correct yeah like not if you do like gender stereotypes you're I did I completely beg to differ if you can say something about a group of people that no one's noticed and in the minute you say it they go wow yeah then you're doing most people can't do it yeah some people can and the ones who can should should do it without any shame or humility or also it's just delusional to think that every single person isn't making a value judgment at all times at all times about everything it's constant that's all we're doing is making me into things and you're just saying it out loud and then yeah I mean that that like annoys the shit out of me when I have friends who are like you're just really harsh and you just like it feels like you're judging me and I'm like I am judging you you just made a horrible decision would you prefer we are friends because you know that I'm not going you like my judgments yeah yeah about most things yeah totally I'm pointing the machine at you now yeah yeah yeah yes because exactly you asked for the and I love you I'm not going any yes I'm not going it's not like and they're for fuck yourself yeah hey I told you all of my fall about you know that I'm all of these contradictions as well so it's okay that you are too it's not like I'm being like I'm good in your bed I just we just spent 45 minutes talking about how I'm bad now I'm gonna say that guy you're fucking sucks you know I mean yeah but yeah people but I don't what I'm saying is is there so the person who's making the snap judgment in the crowd work right do you buy people in here while I hold table yeah I can tell the table which is yes yeah where where she go when you get off stage but or obviously she's still there who was speaking for her oh when I'm offstage yeah there are people that I can talk to the same way I talk about the same way I talk how I'm on stage do you ever do you want to get to the point where you can obviously when you're like buying coffee you don't you don't need to say it's got a tightass shirt yeah or whatever yeah but I'm saying like is there a way you can stick yeah like do you want to do it with all the time everywhere no or do you think it's inhumane it's like man take it out well I'm worried you know how when people get old they just start blasting their thoughts all the time and it gets really out of touch seeming and it almost feels like they have to be saying it or else they'll cease to exist I don't like that like I'm very scared of that so when I'm talking to somebody like my best friend Brianna she's not somebody who I'm going to be like like I think this about this race, I think this about this gender, I think this about, she's just not like that. She doesn't like that. It doesn't make you feel good. - She doesn't like that fun. - Yeah, she doesn't like that fun. She doesn't, and her humor and our humor together is like, you know, silly stuff about a dog who has human eyes. And like when I'm with her, that part of me that's like, yeah, I don't care about the Kantian categorization of human beings. I care about how funny it is that guy has human eyes. And then when I'm with Jake, we're like, you know what, I'm all in on this. I'm all out on this. And that's like, so I have places where I do that. And I definitely keep people in my life that are not for that because I don't want to just become a loudspeaker of the black and white thoughts 'cause I'm doing that on stage. My mom is like that. She's a loudspeaker of black and white thoughts. Like if you were like that. - I liked her mom, energetic course. - Of course, you guys are so similar, so similar. - I talked her for 10 seconds of like, yeah. - She's the best. - But she is somebody that when you're listening to the telepathy tapes, where they're, yeah, she's like that. She's like, fuck that, it's not real. And I'm like, can we just suspend our black and white thinking for a second and enjoy this podcast? - Well, I'm both. 'Cause I, look, I love the telepathy tapes. And I love the frontline debunking of it. That was done in the 90s. - Really? - Yeah. Again, this is like, yes, and I didn't, I listened. - They were great, you listened to them. I was excited. We're all, we're all excited. - My mom's like, shut this or shit off. - Now the hill is pretty hard to argue with. - The hill is sick. - The hill's sick. - Yeah. - And I am also like in that world more and more. So it's like not the hill world, but like the possibility of the hill world. But then once you were the debunking, I was like, yeah. The only thing you can't debunk is the hill. But the rest of it's, the rest of it's like Ouija board. - Yeah, but I also feel like if somebody was like, do you ever meet up on a hill? I'd be like, yeah, maybe. - Like every dream is the hill. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, or any hill is kind of a hill. You know, you're like, yeah, I've had, I think I've seen the hill, but yeah. - By the way, this is a side note. I think dream analysis is stupid. - I know it's stupid because I'll say a joke and then it's immediately when my dream is every time. And I'm like, it literally just, - And I've had a dream that Lauren Michaels is mad at me every night for 25 years. - Yeah. - And I hate dream analysis and I hate when people talk about their dreams. - Anyway, and then my lady was saying that she read a study the other day that like, of recurring dreams, like the number one is falling. And like the number, like my point is, this is my other point is the idea of sweet dreams. I've never had a sweet dream, ever. These are not, they're all kind of nightmares just on a scale. - Yeah, totally. - So this idea of sweet dreams is like, who the fuck is having? - No, I've never had a dream where I'm surrounded. - I don't think we're, well, I think we're the only ones who will admit it. I mean, by the way, it looks like we've never had sweet dreams. - Who has had sweet dreams? Who has had a good dream? - I completely agree. There are people out there who will wake them and say, "I had the sweetest dream." I've never heard a guy say it, but women will say it. Guys have never mentioned their dreams. - All my dreams are being closed in my eyes and my dad being like, "I wish you weren't here right now." And I'm like, "Well, that's a little cut in dry." - Come on, I'm trying to sleep. - Yeah. Or, yeah, I mean, I have dreams every night that just the closest person in my life is like, "I don't even know who you are." That happens every single night. It's crazy. - When people talk about dreams, it's like when they talk about what they ate. I'm like, "I don't give a fuck and you're gonna do that." - Yes, it's what you're gonna eat. It's what diet planar on. It's what, it's how you exercise. It's also your psychedelic experience. Don't wanna know, you don't care. - Yeah. - And I love them. So dreams are stupid. Let's wrap up that segment. Dreams are stupid and none of 'em are sweet. (bell dinging) 'Cause I'm every day, I don't know about you, but I get a day older, which I don't like, but it's what happens. So you gotta start filling in the gaps. Your body's not, she ain't what she used to be. So you gotta fill in the gaps. Like with, with pubs and naturals, okay? Here's the thing. My hips are getting a little cracky. Working out. So I'm one of those second day sore people. Maybe that's everybody, but like the second day, I'm like, first day, I'm like, I'm in really good shape, but I don't, the day after, I'm like, "Oh, I'm good, I'm all straight." And the second day, I'm like, "I'm in trouble." My skin may be not what she used to be. You know what's happening? It's 'cause you're not making collagen anymore. It starts to decline in your mid 20s. And if you don't know what collagen is, I'm gonna tell you, as if I invented it. It's a crucial protein that provides structure and support to your muscles, joints, and skin. It's often referred to as the glue that holds our bodies together. So you probably imagine that a decline in collagen, yeah, it's, you need it. You need it. Girl, this is one of these things that women have been doing for like 10, 15 years, or they're like, "Oh, you don't know about college? "Good for skin, nails, hair." But it's also good for joints. So you gotta stay on it, right? And pubs, naturals, it's collagen peptides. You're gonna get your collagen levels back up. You're gonna be less sore. You're gonna be less creaky, creaky. Basically, it's a powder, you stick it. I put it in a shake, flavorless, it's great. I'm not here to say I look bad, whatever. I definitely feel better. It's just a scoop of stuff. There's no sugars, no sweeteners, no fillers, tested, so it's not garbage, saintly sourced. Live better longer. For limited time only, our listeners are getting 20% off at pubs, naturals, by using code NEAL. A checkout, just head to bubsnaturals.com and use code NEAL. And you're all set. After you purchase, they'll ask you, where you heard about them? Please support our show and tell them, we sent you. And then if somebody sees you using it, go, what is it? You go, I got it, and you'll tell me about it. Never stop mentioning the show or bubsnaturals, ever, don't just make it your whole thing. Bubsnaturals. Guys, people talk about the perfect this, the perfect, this is the perfect mug, this is the perfect weather, this is the perfect. But, you know what, they don't talk about enough? The perfect gene. I mean, what are my biggest issues with the genes? I would say my biggest issue is they're too hard and they just don't fit, right? They're for somebody else, somebody else's body, and then you go like, well, what's wrong with my body? And then you spin out. Yeah, you gotta pull 'em up. It feels like you're wearing a diaper. It looks like you're wearing a diaper. It's not quite the right waistband. It's center, you insert your problems here. This is where the perfect gene comes in, guys. Yeah, they sent 'em to me. Yeah, fine. So what, it's fine. But, I will say this, I did return a pair and they sent me a better fit. And, 'cause the thing of it was, I didn't feel out the form correctly, the right, the first time, then they, but they were like, it was seamless. Like, it was so seamless, it was like creepy. Like, one of the things where you order it, and then the next day they show up and you're like, how? And they fit perfectly in the places I needed them to fit perfectly. And I'll tell you why, right after this. No, okay, let's do some hats. The reason they fit so perfectly is because the fitting, they have a bunch of different categories, waist, inseam, like, they have a bunch of different things. Then they have a fabric thing where you kind of like pick the fabric. It's like very custom, you know I'm cheap, right? Do you think I, do I look like the kind of guy who wants to be $200 for pants or even like $150? Perfect gene. How about $79.99, huh? Ah, ah, ah. Guys, here's the call to action. Stop what you're doing. Our listeners get 15% off their first order plus shipping at theperfectjean.nyc, or Google the perfect gene and use code NEAL15 for 15% off. The perfectjean.nyc, or Google the perfect gene and use code NEAL15, Neil 15, for 15% off. The perfect gene. Go on, go on, get you some. OK, rage. Yeah, bad rage. Do you think rage? Because people I know that have rage, it seems like comes from bad parenting. Because like the idea being that you're depending on this parent as a child, they are not dependable for a variety of reasons. And then you're like, fuck, and then all of the, and you have anti-authority on here too, like all authority becomes like, it's all a referendum on your parents. No, it's not against my parents. Our rage is biological. My dad had rage. I have rage. And my sister had rage. And my dad used to hit my sister. And my sister used to hit me. Like the three students? Like-- [BELL RINGING] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Skillets? Yeah, down the line. Yeah, and we get smelt with the Russian doll of abuse. So we fight to the death. And where my sister is an athlete and would get in the penalty box every fucking night during hockey. My dad has a million concussions from beating the shit out of people in rugby. And I've gotten in the thousand physical fights. It's like a deep-- it's like a Vitamix here. And the only thing that has helped me-- I go on the pit at Hardcore shows. I listen to a lot of Hardcore, which helps a lot. Fucking helps a lot. Boxing helps a lot. But like, stand up helps. Stand up-- I've gotten off stage and started crying. Just because I'm like-- after you orgasm, you'll cry sometimes. That's how it feels. So I'm just like, I mean, I'll just fucking lose it and get off stage and be like, that was the best feeling ever. Or if a guy beats a shit out of me during sex, it's like, that'll get me to cry. Because I'm like, that was so in touch with the truth. So much more than calm shit. But, like, true, like, I want, like, physical. all violence all the time. - Do you think there's anything wrong with it? Not like the one to be beat up by the sexually. - Not even nothing wrong with it now. - And like, do you have to walk guys through it? Be like, hey, I'm gonna need just, or do you think most of the applicants know what they're signing up for? - I try to avoid it, but then it eventually creeps in, for sure. - No, so you try to be vanilla, yeah. - Yeah, I try. I try to get it just through the physical activity of it, but then I'll eventually just be like, all right, I need you to do this. Or it'll slowly get there, and they'll figure out that I need it. But it's also like, that feels the closest. - What if they did it immediately? Would that be like too soon? - If they did it immediately, I would get violent back. If they did it immediately, I'd be like, who the fuck do you think you are? You have to prove that you're safe. - Yeah, but no, it's like, it has to be crept in, it has to be safe, and then it also is like, for me, the nicest thing that somebody could say to me during sex is I fucking hate you, because that feels so incredibly honest, 'cause I know they do. I know that everybody, whoever I'm dating, fucking hates me, and wants to twist a knife. Yes, yes, yes, yes, because that's how it feels. That's how it feels to be somebody. - No, no, there's a big difference between you fucking hate me, and I feel like you fucking hate me. - No, I know they do. I know they do. - Why? - Because I run my mouth all day, and then you're gonna have gentle sex with me? Go fuck yourself, I know that's not the case. I know that's not the case. - Are they also running their mouth? - No, I mean, sometimes. - If I'm running my mouth. - Yeah, that's a good point. - And my girl's running her mouth. I'm not like, you fuck, you got a lot of them, especially of like, the girls. - Yeah, but then they're upset with me for putting them in this position. Then there's like this feeling of like, I know that there's this feeling of like, of like, you run your fucking mouth, you think that I love you because I'm here, and I secretly fucking hate you, and I know that that's true, and I have the feeling towards them too, where I'm like, I know that you could hurt me, and I fucking hate you for that, and saying that is the closest to love to me. I love you as bullshit. I fucking hate you, and yet I'm here, that actually feels like love, because you do hate that person, you hate them for putting a position where eventually something bad will happen or could happen and you can hurt each other, and there is this underlying violence to love. There is, and it should never be actually violent, you should never hurt anybody or put on to anybody, but there is a feeling of like, you could really fuck me up, and that's what we're doing here, and we're not acknowledging that. So when they acknowledge it for me, that's like, - Do you think it's both where you think it's men toward women? - The women know like, I could beat you up whenever I want. Their guy could beat them up whenever they want. - I think that when you fuck a woman who you love and when the woman fucks a man who they love, they both, both genders are very aware that that other person could humiliate them, destroy them, hurt them, like abandon them. - Yes, you are trapped in this, you're, it is very like, there is the limitation is beautiful. Yeah. - It's the point, and at the same time, there's, there's, it's resentable. - It's resentable, yeah, totally. One night stand, I would never say I hate them, or want them to say I hate them too, but if I'm in a relationship. - Would you wanna like, big dude to, in a one night stand, to go hard in the pain? - No. - No. - No, that would, I would get hostile. I mean, I don't have one night stands, I can't, they mean they don't do anything for me, but no, I would want the one night stand. - Well nobody thinks it's gonna be a one night stand. It's just one, it's a nice surprise. - If they were aggressive, I probably would date them for three and a half years. 'Cause I'd be like, well that's love. - So that's, okay, so you think, and that, and does it do a lot of them end up in that place of like, it is a mosh pit? - Yeah, totally, yeah. - How long? - Like how long? - Before it's a mosh pit. - Give me the shortest and longest to talk. - It usually takes the same every time, it usually takes like two, maybe like, yeah, two months, and then they're like, oh shit, this is a mosh pit. I need the mosh pit, you gotta have the mosh pit, the mosh pit has to happen, I can't entertain. - You like hitting them back? - I don't hit them, it's more just like, you know, like that, and saying I hate you, I like saying I hate you, and I really like when they're like, get off of me, and I'm like, please, that feels correct. - In the middle or after? - In the middle, during, before. - Like, is it a fake? They, get off me, like, I'm repelled by you? - I really don't like being like, pursued intimate, like I don't want anybody like wooing me. I really want it to be like, I hate that I'm here with you, but I'm gonna do it anyway, that's what I like. - So to you, for play is what? - Get off. - But by then, you're already, oh, you're like, - Get off, get off. - You're like grinding them. - Yeah, I'm like, I'm like a disgusting creature that they're like-- - Stop. - That I'm convincing them. That's the best. - What? - Like, imagine somebody's doing their taxes, and they're like, I have to get this done by, in an hour, don't talk to me. I'm fucking all over them. - And you want them to, part of the game. - Stop, stop. - Stop, get out of here. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - The clock is ticking, and then it closes up with the clock of the counter. - Even like, you're gross, get off. - I'm not gonna sleep with you. - I'll see you about that. - And then you like convincing them? Is it part convincing, or is it part, like, domination? - Not domination, convincing. - Like, like, five. - Is that like a role play thing, or you actually, it's legitimate. Do you say, like, hey, fight your role play? - Now I'm doing it in role play, so I'm going to not-- - Got it. - Did you think that's better? - Yeah. Yeah, totally. Now I'm being like, get, tell me that-- - 'Cause you can pretend it's a character you're playing. - Because they know, 'cause I'm not-- - This isn't really me. - Somebody. - 'Cause if somebody's really doing their taxes, I'm clawing them. - And also, a few people went to jail, 'cause you wouldn't let them finish their taxes. - Right. - A few people got thrown in the upper taxes. - Yeah. - It's actually unpaid by the CIA. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Huge fines. And then in terms of like beating how bad, is there a too far? - I don't like stinging. No stinging. - By the way, you say it like I knew about stinging. What stinging, are you-- - Like slapping stings, pinching stings? Like I don't like that. I like like hard mashing and like squishing. Like maybe face, it's fuck you. Whatever's demeaning, not demeaning, I don't wanna be pissed on. But like a struggle, struggle. My mom calls it a struggle, snuggle. That's what we grew up to. - Pretty good. - Is just being like, that's what me and my sister did with our parents. Our parents would be like, get off of us and we'd be like, please, please, please, they'd be like, get off. And we'd be like, oh. That's how I grew up with my dad. It's just clawing at him and he'd be like, get it the fuck off of me. That's the best. Any like we're coming together and that's nice, but I can't see. - Is there any point in the interaction where you want them to actually be there with you or is that they've been there, then they're a pussy? - No, after, yeah, after. - After you want like, get off, fuck you. You won't get away with this. Not gonna off, would you? - You won't get away with this, like we're (laughs) - Call the embassy, and then-- - Like we're in the fucking 1930s. And get away with it, see? I'm gonna find you. I'm gonna throw you in the link. I mean, the clink. - The, when do you want, when do you want, do you want them to be like, we're not so bad. Afterward, is it like, hey, fuck you, I've got what? The best is afterwards, it's like, hey, okay, I'm good. I love you, it's afterwards, where it's like, are we cool? - I was wrong about you. - It's just like, it's just like snapping out of it and you're kind of like, okay. But yeah, that's like what I pursue. Any relationship where the person, where I don't mind being the person who's like, get the fuck off of me, that's fine, but somebody has to be doing it. It can't just be two people in love. I can't handle that. That doesn't, that feels very-- - There's no drama, there's no prison. - There's no, it's not, it's not honest. It feels dishonest. It feels like, what are we in a fucking play right now? You don't know what I mean? So if somebody's in the-- - It's a bad, like good plays, they, a good play, Arthur Mellon, the people you've heard of, it's not love. - So you're saying like, let's admit, our conflicted feelings here, up to the point of stinging. - Yeah. And yeah, and I don't like that. I mean, I think it's dishonest for me to walk around my life and being like, that sucks, that's gay, that's bad. And then I step into sex and I'm like, my love. That's dishonest. And they know it's dishonest. And they know that I'm an analytical and discerning person. So the way that I can make them feel comfortable also is to be like, you fucking suck. And they're like, you know what I mean? - Yeah. - 'Cause at least I'm not putting on like a show. - That's how it's felt about when people were upset about Louis. So I was like, so you think the most non-linear person on earth. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - He thinks non-linearly about everything except the most non-linear thing and then he's fucking Louis. - That's like Marilyn Manson. I'm like, you think that guy is nice to women? - Yeah. - That's what he thought. It's crazy. - I'd also like to point out something that I don't judge you when I say that you're complicated and you, but you like sifting. I don't say like you look at you over there. I'm not like you poor thing. No, I'm saying it like up here of like no I'm under I've got I put my boots on as well. Yeah, yeah and get to sifting. It's not it's it's basically ground zero Yeah, tell me more about rage and anti-authority because I am you you you think society's stupid Ish yeah, but you'd like to be a big part of it Yeah, I mean I think that There's like a big justice component. There's a big like Like there's a I can't let somebody get away with something you know like when I'm at the hotel right the hotel is like Hey, you didn't actually pay for your hotel room and I go yeah, I for sure did I for sure paid Yeah, a lot of money actually for it. Yeah, and they're like no, no, no, you have to give us your card And I go I'm gonna need you to get the manager and then the manager goes. Oh, yeah, she did pay for it See I turned to that other person and I could be like, thank you so much and go upstairs But I turned to that other person and I go so what what happens now that you just almost made me pay twice What do we do about that not only can I relate to what you're saying? Yeah, there have been times where I Want to get right like just a bad interaction and then I want to like do a Show or whatever content about like so what do you think just happened? Yeah, yeah Yeah, just let's get a two shot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, what do you like a body cam? Whatever just walk me through what you think just happened. Yeah, I'm begging to know what you thought. Yeah, show me I'll do I'm gonna get a shot of the computer screen. I want to know Exactly what happened and then why do you think I was the mark because I it's hard not to think that they think you're the mark Because I think You do with me. It's more like what's going on now in your head? Are you justifying this somehow? Are you gonna walk away from this and be like well if she didn't pay? Did it or are you really thinking like I fuck that up? Yeah, you're thinking I fuck that up. We're good. We're good But if I don't think that's what your face is saying right now. Yeah, it's like that. Fix your face Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's what I mean that's like You know, it's like I opened my door the other day and there was a bicyclist coming and I barely opened it But he goes fuck you and I was like, hey man, I'm so sorry. I wasn't looking at all and he goes Yeah, I know you weren't fucking bitch or something like that and I lost it and I was just like I just apologized I made abundantly clear that I didn't know that I didn't check and now you're gonna double down on the apology I was like what kind of person, you know, and I like it's this justice thing where I'm like I can't passively I can't let things go. I need people to know exactly. That's me with saying that I was mad for six weeks I mean in that's a form of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Basically, like that's how I I just and it is a part of me. I do want to fort them. I Didn't want to for whatever. I just like we're friends. So it's like I'm not for the mentality. Yeah, like what Why'd you do that? Yeah, like why we can't all be doing this I Just have to know the train of thought like if somebody just get even if somebody's like I'm a sociopath And I do things that hurt people on purpose fine, but it's like I respect to know Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I need to know that's why my I'm good friends with Chloe Radcliffe Cuz she does she can do this thing where she's like oh yeah, yeah, where she just is like I'll she'll have this like horrendous view on Something because she did a show about cheating. I was like how do you do a show about cheating and she will let me sit there and Pick her apart and be like I need you to walk the guy walks in you're you know that you have a boyfriend Yeah, tell me exactly what the feeling is and there's no facade There's no like well. I wasn't thinking about him. Fuck you fuck you. Yes, you were and what were you thinking about you know what I mean like I have to know how things are How people got to the place of being insane? I need to know what happened and and I was raised like that too If I fucked up and then said sorry to my mom, she'd be like just explained to me exactly how you got there Yeah, and then it would be fine one woman jerked off my boyfriend under a blanket one time And I just a woman. We were all an adult. We were like 18 and I fell asleep on the couch He was here and she was there and she jerked him off under the and I was like I need to know everything That yeah, I know I wish I need to know everything that led you to the point of doing that. I know I because it really is like Then I'm almost fine fine if you can explain because even Politically where when liberals are like I can't believe and it's like you can't Imagine getting to a place of wanting to have a border policy. Yeah, yeah, you can't fathom it Yeah, and if you can't fathom it do ask somebody how they got to that point But also the and they'll tell you it's really like a one-step two-step process. Yeah totally I know in some and I forget who I was talking to recently where I was like I just need oh I was it was after the lecture. I was like I need to understand Like I do have to understand everybody's exact train of thought the thing that's fucked up right now is like You follow this train of thought for different political positions and it all gets to this place where it's just like False where people are just like that never happened and you and they go that never happened and we're like I'm like, where does that leave me? There's no they say that we what you have what you believe is based on Like take like if you're talking if you're thinking about the israel versus Palestine Everybody goes down the line and they go well that didn't actually happen and then this group goes Well, that didn't actually happen right and then you look it up and both parties go that didn't and you're like there's yeah Like this a bad source. You can't trust this source you go. Okay. Well, then I we can't I have to trust something. Yes Yes, yes, yes, I have to believe some fact. Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, and facts are very lost now and yeah, that's yeah people arguing in bad faith is probably my Is like the my least It's probably what activates me so much like if a cop pulling you over and you being like you know for a fact That I wasn't going that fast and if you just tell me right now Hey, man, I have to meet a certain quota of tickets. I need to give out and you got nailed give me the ticket Give me the ticket. Yeah, totally, but when they don't do that now I'm activated like a TSA when they go You've been randomly selected. I'm like send me stick of the wand in my ass But when they just go go that way and you go why and they go go that way. Oh I'm like, you will give me an explanation of why the wand is in my ass, but random selection totally fine totally fine completely agreed and Do you think most people are like this? Because I'm somebody should tell one time said he's never met someone more obsessed with fairness than me. Oh, I'm so I'm like obsessed. I always say like a pivotal moment in my life is When they someone made a sandwich and then they go you split it and then the other one picks it The other person picks which and I'm like this is the coolest dynamic. Yeah, I've ever heard of yeah And can we do and I basically I want everything That's happened since to be like that and none of it is I remember being like except when it benefits me And then I want it to be I want it to benefit me. Yeah, and then you can justify it. It's fine I remember writing my name on something in preschool and having a girl crossed out my name and write her name and Going to the teacher and being like this is mine and I remember pointing at my name and be like you crossed my name out And she's like no, I didn't that's not your name under there And I was like well, you can't see it because the marker, but you know that you crossed it out and she's like I didn't and I remember being like I Can't I need to understand how she's at the point how she's at the point of line I think that's what it is. I need to understand how people can be Self-deceptive and that's why my life falls apart when I'm just but you know that they can't a lot of people can't explain it Right, but that drives me great. They can't come near me those people cannot come anywhere near me. I just got out of relationship like that where it was like I would be like do you see This by the way and there are plenty of ways in which we can't explain why we're like what we do the things We like to think we can yeah, but like You think we can explain everything. Do you think it will be the right explanation? I think I'd be open to the right explanation if it was given to me and that's the that's the if somebody said I actually think you're doing this because of this and it felt right I would admit that a lot of people are like I have to adhere to the narrative. I've given myself and that makes me want to kill people That's the yeah somebody I will not admit this because that would mean this about me who gives a fuck if that means that about you Then make that about you then I think you and I would find it liberating and other people find it scary Well, then they have no awareness of death a long debaton who was a guest on the pod and no how did you get him? I just DM them and it's it's not simple and Love him and but he wrote a book 20 years ago called status anxiety Yeah, and once you know That most things are about status. Yeah Which is why I was mad at you for cancer. I was like who the fuck does she think she's fucking higher status She can just go know. Yeah, that's why I literally said like hey, I'm successful when we scheduled this yesterday Yeah, I like that. I know you do, but I'm but a lot of people would be like oh Neil thinks it's like Let's just all admit yeah that we're all status animals. Yeah, and I don't like being in a spot You've heard the thing it's a minor stat, but on planes where you have to walk through business in first class the incidents of air rage are higher Because people are humiliated On those flights by having you like walk through like get out it You have to walk through. Yeah, and it makes people it's like the stats not huge, but it is higher Like when they have to go to the bathroom in those guys No, when you board the plane, you have to walk through business in first, like just that's any airplane, right? And if you're in economy, it's embarrassing. Yeah, totally. And so on those flights, there are the incidence of error age or slightly higher. And they believe that's why it's because they're mad because their status has been confirmed to them and it's low. Yeah, why don't they board the back of the plane from the back? I think it's probably one of these, like, it's two weight things. Yeah. They really should do that. But well, because then you'd have to tell the rich people you're boarding last, then their status is lower. And then they don't like that. Yeah. Or you tell the poor people you board first, but you're going to have a walk through, right? Beverly Hills, right, right, right, right, right. To Compton. And like, that's not there's just and by the end, you have to board from the building, the terminal and the, like, the air thing isn't long. But the, the, yeah, like, just status, just like, let's acknowledge what's happening. You're, you think I'm ugly. So you didn't think you could have to be nice to me or you didn't think I was somebody or you didn't think you don't like black, whatever your category is. Yeah, people would just go, Trevor, no one one time said the one upside of a pothite was that it was in the open. The racism in South Africa is easier to deal with because they're open about it. When the white people just go, no, we're better than you. So you're going to get worse stuff. Whereas in America, they go, we're all the same. Yeah, yeah, you just, you're getting worse stuff because you're worse. You're a worse person. Yeah, totally because you're a failure, not because the system's rigged. In South Africa, they got not the system. It's rigged. Yeah, I, yeah, I find it. There's sometimes people will tiptoe around it with comedy with me. Well, they'll talk about how I'm doing. And I'm like, well, I say really egregious shit on stage that gets people to watch it on Instagram. I take, I have really hard takes that get a lot of buzz. And I'm also a woman, which helps a lot. And they're just like, oh, oh, you know that? Yeah. And I'm like 100%. Well, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's not, I'm a woman with rage. How often do you that you don't see that very often? And it is like, yeah, not having lucidity around stuff. It does drive me completely. When people, the amount of times my friends will be participating in a pattern over and over and over again. And I will illuminate it to them. And they will be like, you're hurting my feelings. That, that upsets me so much that you're because you're not allowed to. How would illuminating a pattern of behavior possibly hurt you? It's, that drives me crazy. Couldn't agree more. If it's false, then it's false, then that could be annoying. Have people been overly honest with you in a way that hurt your feelings? And how long did it hurt for? Yeah, I push back for a bit. There's definitely this moment where I'm like, no, fuck you. This is fine. And then pretty quickly, I'm able to be like a holy shit. That's 100% correct. But it does not, that does not lead to a depression that leads to like an elevation. Do you then? Does it affect the friendship? It makes it closer for sure. For sure. I mean, and it's like, yeah, I feel like actually known for sure. But it is, people have been like, you know, you're so incredibly afraid to be alone that you're willing to completely sabotage all of these things in your life. So you have your fear of being alone or something like that. Or like somebody was like, you haven't, you're, you think you're so entitled that you get to act this way around people. And it does, it, yeah, it definitely hurts, but it doesn't lead to like a hurt that's like this person thinks that about me. And so I'm bad. It's like, yeah, it definitely feels like they've laid out like a stepping stone. Like I remember my mom when I was trying to go into college and she was like, well, you don't, you don't get good grades. So you're just going to go to the community college. And I was, I was so hurt. And I was like, what? What? And she was like, that's reality. And then I got way better grades because I was like, yeah, what? So like it does, it sucks for a minute. And it does make me hostile. It's like, it's like rage. And then it's like, oh, shit, you're 100% right. And now I have to like get, I have to overcome that. I can't sink into it as a reality. Like I can't be like, yeah. And that is how it is. What are your, what are your goals for yourself now? Not professional, just like personally. I want to operate in reality very much. And I also want to, yeah, I don't want to fall into delusion. That's a big thing. I fall into delusion. And I want to delusion about what? Like maybe this thing will work out with this person or maybe this delusion can also be like, maybe I, and maybe that person doesn't like me so they didn't give me this or maybe as he didn't give me that many spots because she thinks that it, and I know the reality. I know exactly what's going on. So I want to be able to maintain reality even though sometimes if I accept reality, like say I accept like, hey, you had a really good set just then. My first fear is the second you accept positive realities, they'll be taken away from you. That has to stop that, and I'm working on that, but that has to stop because my preparation for pain is making it so that I can't experience good things. So that's my goal is to like, if something good is there to see that it is good for what it is, not just to see the negative. Yeah. Because what else are we fucking doing? What's the fun of that? It's just familiar. It's so familiar. Yeah. But it's not fun. It's bad. Yeah. And I just do it constantly. I'll be like, I love my dog so much when she dies. I'll have to kill myself. And I'm like, okay, let's try that again. I love my dog so much. Stop. It's like, so I'm trying to do that. That's what I want. You know what you could use a spray bottle for yourself. I know. I know. It's so active. I have to be so fucking on it. It's crazy how much I go there for self preservation. This was Jordan Jensen, guys. The podcast is called RFA and the specials called Taming With You. You decide what it's about. And I had a great time and I feel like we've made our relationship. What do we do? We don't have to. I'm not going to get it. Goodbye.