Jonathan Vs. Kalila on Smash Boom Best

pushkin welcome to the studio kalila holt producer thank you for having me you know i'm not saying that you should but it would sometimes be nice to be welcomed into the studio myself well you've always just jump right in and start welcoming me you don't really give me the opportunity welcome to the studio jonathan oh um gee i i was taken unawares by that uh we're here in the studio because we have uh something a little different a special treat yeah it's something that um was new for both of us uh kalila and i we were guests on a children's debate podcast the show is called smash boom best and it's a favorite of your son augie's if i'm not mistaken yes very much so yeah which is how it kind of got onto my radar i started enjoying listening to it with him and uh the host molly bloom is kind of um a celeb in our household so i was a little starstruck you know i'm always wary of children's programming because i hate the kind of like over the top smiley baby voice like too syrupy yeah but i started listening to the show uh in advance of doing this and i feel like i really enjoyed the show they're talking to kids at like a level that respects their intelligence i would say yeah and since we respect you our listeners intelligences uh it's why we chose to share this episode yeah uh with with you all um we'll be debating phone calls versus texting i don't want to spoil anything we went pretty toe-to-toe it got pretty heated uh during certain moments but you know we're we're here to talk about it we're still speaking to one another yeah so the point is it's always better to use your words rather than a uh knuckle sandwich to the throat of your adversary sure thank you for not giving me a knuckle sandwich to the throat i deliver my knuckle sandwiches with words sans be um we had a lot of fun doing it and we hope you'll enjoy listening to it and that's all coming up after these fun words from our sponsors this is an iheart podcast guaranteed human this is jacob goldstein from business history when the internet arrived most people used it to look things up others saw what it could really do the same is true with chat gpt chat gpt work goes beyond answering questions give it a goal plus things like notes files feedback data or project plans and it can help create a brief analysis deck outline tracker or workflow you stay in control and you can do anything you want to do reviewing the work and choosing the final result put chat gpt to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects get started at chat gpt.com by selecting work mode available on plus and pro plans if you love music and great artist interviews check out before the moment hosted by niall rogers this new series follows niall as he travels across the country talking with some of today's most fascinating artists about the moments that shape their lives and careers from hit makers like miguel to rising stars like alex warren niall explores the stories behind the careers the songs and the moments that 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every purchase there's even an option to open a high yield savings account through apple card and while i haven't done it yet if i do my daily cash can grow automatically over time without any extra effort because apple card lives in the wallet app it's always accessible on iphone and can be used with apple pay at over 85 percent of merchants in the u.s and the security of face id and touch id prevents unauthorized purchases whether using iphone or apple watch to exploit yourself you can apply for apple card in the wallet app on your iphone subject to credit approval savings is available to apple card owners subject to eligibility savings and apple card by goldman sachs bank usa salt lake city branch member fdic terms and more at applecard.com brains on universe from the brains behind brains on it's smash boom best the show for people with big opinions hi i'm molly blue and this is smash boom best the show where we take two things smash them together and ask you to decide which one is best today we've got two ways of reaching out one starts with a ring the other a ding it's calling versus texting whether you like to type or talk we're sure you'll have a lot to say about this one defending the tradition of talking on the phone it's the host of the heavyweight podcast jonathan goldstein howdy do and here to hit send for the art of the text it's kalila holt producer of the heavyweight podcast hello or should i say hand wave emoji and here to judge this clash of the communication styles is none other than ella from oregon city ella is on the swim team plays flute and saxophone loves to make art and has lots of bracelets on both of her arms welcome ella hi okay ella since this is a podcast we cannot see your amazing bracelets so can you give us a sense of the scope of your bracelets i have probably like 25 on right now wow have you made all of them i've probably made half of them incredible what are we talking about like string beads all of the above all of the above wow do you have a favorite one um i recently made one with soda tabs and it's really cool and it's stretchy that's very impressive just soda tabs yes well and string what is the oldest bracelet that you have on i have one that i got in sixth grade and it says kindness ambassador on it and i have worn it for three years it's amazing so the ones on your arms right now are they like an every day you wear each one every day or do you change it up um sometimes i change it up but most of them i keep it on like all the time very cool okay so you also make other kinds of art besides bracelets what other kind of media do you use to make art um i love like drawing and painting and stuff but i also like music oh yes you play saxophone and flute so i'm wondering when you're playing flute versus when you're playing saxophone is there like a vibe shift that you feel or is it kind of the same it's definitely different vibes because i play more like jazz music on the saxophone and then i do more like popular songs or like concert music on the flute so when you're playing the saxophone if you said hello in your like saxophone playing voice like what would that sound like oh i don't know i'd probably be like hello nice and how about your flute playing voice sound like hello excellent excellent well will ella side with texting or phone calls let's see first the rules of the game every debate consists of four rounds the declaration of greatness the micro round the sneak attack and the final six after each round our judge ella will award points to the team that impresses her the most but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate listeners we want you to judge too mark down your points and we'll see you at the end of the show head to our website smashboom.org and vote for whichever team you think won okay kalila ella and jonathan are you ready oh i'm ready i hope so i'm ready too then it's time for the declaration of greatness in this round our debaters will present a well crafted immersive argument in favor of their side then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements we flipped a coin and jonathan you're up first tell us why we should answer the call of talking on the phone what's the sound of being loved a heartbeat no that's just body plumbing is it someone saying i love you i'd argue actions speak louder than words which is why to me the sound of being loved is a phone call it says hey i like hearing your voice i like the way you laugh your awkward pauses. It says I want to spend my precious minutes in real time with you, even if I can't be there in real life. A text just says, shoot, I just remembered you asked me a question yesterday and I'm going to write you back while I finish up on the toilet. Phone calls are efficient. Oh sure, texters will say a text is quick, to which I say, what are you rushing for? More scrolling to get to? But also, texts can be slow. How many times have you sent a question, then had to wait for a reply? Like, say you're planning a picnic. Hey Chad, where should we meet? Come on, write back. You could be waiting minutes or hours. You have no idea. Finally, it's been three hours. Okay, Chad says meet at Minnehaha Falls. Sure, but what time? Come on, just answer me. Meanwhile, the whole thing could have been settled in 15 seconds with a call. Hello? Hey Chad, where should we picnic? How about Minnehaha Falls? When? Six. Bring cheese and crackers? Nah, fruit and pizza. Okay, see ya. Later. That's efficient. Phone calls avoid confusion. You can hear someone's tone, whether it's playful, angry, grumpy, or snarky. Texts are so easy to get wrong. Is Chad being sarcastic or a jerk? Oh, he sent an emoji to clarify. Cool guy with shades? What does that even mean? Plus, what emoticon can replace the sound of human laughter? Or that special silence that you know is a smile on the other end of the line? You can feel real feelings through a call. I've seen someone stand right next to me and text someone R-F-O-L. And let me tell you, they were not rolling on the floor laughing. I'm not going to say texting is dishonest, but it does make it easy to lie. There's a famous story about the first phone call. In 1876, Alexander Graham Bell was inventing the phone. So far, he'd only managed to send snippets of speech. But then, he spilled some acid on his hand in the lab. He used the phone without realizing it to call his assistant. And it worked. Mr. Bell, I heard every word you said distinctly. That's rhetorical. I don't care because it's definitely not as good. Phone calls are memorable, like a cousin telling you about a new baby joining the family, or a friend comforting you after a breakup. And no wonder. Humans have been talking and listening to each other's voices for over 100,000 years. Way longer than writing. We evolved to talk and listen. I'd argue it's one of the greatest pleasures of being a human. So, the call is coming. The call to enjoy a conversation. Not just get to it next time you're on the toilet. The call to revel in human voices. The call to say, I love you. Not with words, but with actions. The call to make a call. Are you going to answer it? Well said. Well, howdy-do. That was a heartwarming declaration of greatness there. Ella, what stood out to you about Jonathan's arguments? That actions do speak louder than words. Very nice. Okay, Kalila, you have 30 seconds to send Jonathan straight to voicemail. And your 30 seconds starts right now. Okay, man, I don't know if 30 seconds is going to be enough. First of all, I think that being loved is about, you know, showing that you're loved. And I think that being loved is about showing the other person that you understand what they want. And sometimes that's not always a phone call. So, a lot of people don't like being called. The time thing, I just think that it's not true that calls are faster. So many times I've been in a situation where I'm calling, leaving a message, they don't answer. They call me back. I'm in the middle of something. I can't answer it. They leave a message. And you know what we always do? We always switch to texting. And time. I found that surprisingly hurtful. I thought this was just going to be. You know, be about the topics, but that feels somehow ad hominem. I don't know why. I'm sorry. I hurt your feelings. You're welcome. How did you say it? With your mouth. Oh, my goodness. All right. We have a lot more to hear coming up. We're going to hear from Kalila and team texting. But first, a quick break. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. I'm a reporter. Making phone calls is part of my job. Cold calls, as in a call where the person isn't expecting you, are not fun. Said person answers the phone, already feeling annoyed, and you have to explain who you are and why you're calling as quickly as possible before they hang up. A few times I've even been yelled at on the phone. It's my least favorite part of the job, and I usually cry. But the telephone is an incredible invention. Sure, so is the horse-drawn carriage, but we have cars now. We change with the times. Ugh, not me. I still love my horse and carriage. And my phone calls. Well, great for you, Mr. Retro Chic, but for the rest of us, a phone call causes panic. Maybe 20 years ago, a ringing phone meant something like, Marjorie down the street is inviting you over for homemade casserole. How charming. These days, though, a call is either spam, your college that cost you $200,000 asking if you'd like to give them more money, or someone delivering bad news. Sometimes it's also a butt dial. Those are fun, right? Are they? Five minutes of rustling? Okay, plus, have you ever tried to get off the phone with someone, and they keep dragging it out? It's a whole song and dance of going, okay, in a way that's supposed to sound final, while the other person completely ignores the hint and launches into a detailed anecdote about new cereals on offer at their grocery store. Texts, on the other hand, end whenever you want them to. You just stop responding. Beautiful. And you don't have to play phone tag trying to get an answer. Just send your question, and the other person responds when they can. Ideal. There's also the matter of being in public. Someone calls to chat, and any random stranger can listen in on my conversation. I would like to be able to tell my mom about how I cried over accidentally ordering the wrong breakfast burrito without broadcasting it to her. at this, even though people were worried that the call be awkward. It wasn't. And it brought them closer to their friend. And another study found that regular phone calls make people feel less lonely. That's nice. It's not quite as good as like saving someone's life. But, you know, earlier you said there's no story about the first text message. In fact, there is. The first text message was Merry Christmas. And it was sent from a computer, not a phone, on December 3rd, 1992, a great year. A 22-year-old software programmer named Neil Papworth, a fun name, sent the very first text message. It was sent from a computer because mobile devices weren't yet capable of sending texts at the time. The recipient got a very festive surprise on his phone. That sounds really jolly. Yeah, it is jolly. Wait, that they just they they they looked at their cell phone and they saw Merry Christmas. And there's nothing jolly about that. There's nothing about just reading the words. It was like a new career font, all caps. I don't know that we have that capability at the time. It was a new technology. I don't know. What's a Christmas card? It's writing. Yeah, I know. But it's it's it's colorful and it's got little pictures and Santa Clauses and reindeer. I don't know. It does occur to me, though, that, you know, if there weren't any phones, there would be any phone lines. And where would birds head? I know that's a non sequitur, but it's just. Is that something that you've ever considered? Where are they going to sit in trees? Get splinters? I think their feet are built for that. I don't know that they get splinters. All right. Fair enough. Was that your facts or? No, that was. Maybe that counts as a fact. I guess it is a fact. OK, here's a question for you. What are you doing on April 25th? Because I am celebrating National Telephone Day. It started in 1995. In 1967, in honor of the 100 million telephone line being installed in the U.S. to celebrate, they had governors and dignitaries all get on a party line together and they got gold phones. I think we need to bring this back because I want to get on a party line and get a cold phone. Gold phones is pretty cool, but sitting on a conference call with a bunch of governors sounds actually like a nightmare to me. All right. Well, here's my last fact. In 2003, AT&T helped American Idol set up a voting system that relied on text messages rather than voice calls. At the time, text messaging was still new and some 22 percent of respondents to a later poll said they learned to text specifically in order to vote on the show. A reality singing competition accidentally became one of the biggest drivers of texting adoption in American history. Now, you're talking about American Idol, right? Mm hmm. And the what what is the that's a competition? It's a competition where people sing. Yes. Where people make use of the greatest instrument of all with with deference to Ella. I'm trying to butter up the judge here. The flute and the saxophone. Great. But what better instrument than the human voice? Do you see where I'm going with this? I see where you're going for a professional singer, but not for any schmo who's like saying they like a certain singer better than another singer. I don't think that that needs to be spoken. Could just as easily be typed. I got a little. Any fact. I mean, what do we call those things that we keep in our pockets? We don't call them iPhones. We call or rather we do call them. I texting machines. Right. That's the that is. Are these facts? I don't know. Are they low blows? I don't know. I mean, even even like when you think about the the friendships that you have, the friends, there's kind of a hierarchy like there's there's the friends that you feel like you could pick up the phone and call. Right. And those are usually your closest friends. That's a soft fact and a fact of the heart. Much of a fact, but the fact of the heart. All right, Ella, what's that to you from this micro round that they each had, like their strengths, like in texting, you might like do it more often or like with everyone and then like calling definitely with like specific people to show you care about them. All right. Those are a lot of good facts. A lot of good points. But only one team can get a point for this round. So, Ella, please award a point for this micro round. The decision is completely subjective and completely up to you. Have you made your decision? I have. Perfect. Keep it secret and we'll be right back. If you're a music fan, here's a new podcast to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs and the moments. Because every artist can point to that turning point, that moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Jacob Goldstein from Business History. Imagine Henry Ford trying to create this. He had factory plans, production schedules, supply information, research and ideas coming from all directions. 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May slow when network is busy. Includes up to 20 gigs hotspot. Capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies. See MintMobile.com. Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. Smash. Boom. Best. We are back and we're jumping right in because it's time for. Sneak attack. This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's challenge is mystery word. Each debater will get a list of three secret words and they're going to try to get our judge, Ella, to guess the word as fast as she can. So let's say one of my words was milk. I might say it comes from a cow. Goes on cereal. And Ella would be like, milk. Got it? Does that make sense? Yes. Fab. Okay. So you're going to have 30 seconds to get Ella to guess. And Ella, so I want to ask, are you ready for some guessing? I am. I'm very ready. Okay. So Jonathan, you are going to start us off. You have your words. Okay. Get Ella to guess them. Your time starts now. Now. So this is something that you would leave on someone's phone if you couldn't get a hold of them. Voicemail. Very good. And this is the sound that your phone makes when someone's phoning you. Ding. Almost rhymes with? Ring. Yes. And this is the person who is doing the talking. You. This is, okay, you hit a little button. Mute. On your phone. When you hear it, you have to hold it to your face. Do you want to make a guess? I don't know. What was the answer, Jonathan? Speaker. I didn't do a very good job. That makes sense. No, you did great. Okay, Kalila, it is your turn. You have your words handy. Yep. All right. Your 30 seconds begins now. Okay, the little pictures in the text. Emojis. Yes. When you've got an email, there's options at the bottom, and the options are like. Reply. Yep, and the thing on the computer that you would use to type. Keyboard? Yeah, great job. I've never heard this game show side of you. It's true. A new part of me comes out, yeah. Okay, Ella, it is time to award a point. You can decide who gets the point. Did someone get you to guess more? Did someone really connect with you? You know, it's up to you what the criteria are. Have you awarded your point? Yes. Awesome. Then it's time for our final round. The final six. In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Kalila, you're up first. Tell us why you heart emoji texting. Open your mind. Future is now. Oh, very nice. All right. Jonathan, last chance to give it your all for a call. Immediate, intimate, hand and finger free. That's kind of a hyphenated one. Direct, interactive, and fun. Hmm, very nice. All right, Ella, it is time to award your final point for this final six. I have. Oh, my goodness. All right, tally up those points, Ella. Are you ready to crown one team the Smash Boom best? I am. Okay, drum roll, please. And the winner is. Texting. Yay. I knew it. I knew it. Next time, if you get, instead of a teenage judge, you get, like, some 70-year-old man. We all have a fighting chance. Our fingers are just too pudgy and sticky, the text. Why are your fingers so sticky? It's my business. It's my business. I like fudge. Me too, me too. Ella, was there a moment that really decided things for texting? I think it was probably the sneak attack. It was really, really fast. I got it. Yeah, Kalila really got that game show mode going. We locked in, we locked in. Very impressive. Jonathan, I always like talking to you. You always make me laugh. And I do think you make some good points about the telephone. And the intimacy of the relationship you can have with someone in voice versus writing. Oh, that's really nice. Kalila, you kind of won me over. I came in here feeling, like, a little more headstrong about the phone. But I have to admit, you kind of won me over some. And that is a testament to your debating skill, your persuasiveness, and your velvety, dulcet tones. You get it? That's a little dig. That's a little, like, trying to get a little slam dunk on from my own side. You didn't have to do that, but. For sportsmanship. On the whole, very gratifying. Thank you. Well, that is it for today's debate battle. Ella Crown texting the Smash Boom best, but what about you? Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won. This episode was produced by me, Molly Bloom, Mark Sanchez, and Shannon Totten. It was sound designed by Rachel Breeze, and Mark wrote our theme song. We had engineering help from Adam Lee. Our announcer is Marley, for your worker auto. And we want to give a. Special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Kalila, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout-out to today? Yes, I'd like to give a shout-out to my mom, Annalise, who's one of the few people in my life that I enjoy both phoning and texting equally. She's really great in both modes. Oh, that's very sweet. And how about you, Jonathan? Any special shout-outs? I want to shout-out my nine-year-old son, Hoggy, who first introduced me to Smash Boom best. Got me listening to it, and he is a big fan, Molly. Aw. Thank you, Hoggy, for introducing your dad. And Ella, any special thanks or shout-outs? Could I shout-out my dad for being here and laughing? Absolutely. You can shout-out whoever you want. Then I shout-out my dad for being here and helping me. Nice. And before we go, let's check in and see who Wyatt thinks should win the debate between Monopoly and Jenga. I think Monopoly would win because it's longer than. And that means more fun. If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knock-down, drag-out debate, head to smashboom.org slash contact and drop us a line. We'll be back next week with a new Smash Boom best episode, Dandelions vs. Orchids. Bye! Smell you later. Farewell. Libbity giblets. Ha ha! Oh, yeah, the Smash Boom best. Oh, but you threw the test. Oh, it's the Smash Boom best. Oh, better than the rest. It's the Smash Boom best. I also hate that you said, how do you do? I found that very gross. That's why I did. That was special for you. We haven't even started debating yet. No. No. If you love music and. great artist interviews, check out Before the Moment, hosted by Niall Rogers. This new series follows Niall as he travels across the country talking with some of today's most fascinating artists about the moments that shaped their lives and careers. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the point where everything changed, and this is the This podcast tells the stories that came before it. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Malcolm Gladwell from Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage. This episode is sponsored by Navy Federal Credit Union. They offer great rates and pre-approvals that are good for 90 days. Plus, you could even get $200 when you refinance your auto loans from another lender with Navy Federal Credit Union. Learn more at NavyFederal.org slash autoloans, Navy Federal Credit Union. Navy Federal is insured by NCUA. Credit and collateral subject to approval. Refinance loan must be at least $5,000 to be eligible for the $200. Terms and conditions apply. Visit NavyFederal.org slash autoloans for details. For I don't know how long, maybe 12, 13 years, I've worn a whoop band on my wrist. I started doing it because I met the founder of whoop at a conference. He heard that I was a runner and he said, oh, you'll love this. It's perfect for athletes. And he was right. 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