Jonah Hill

[Music] Martin Scorsese and Quinn Tarantino. They couldn't be more different to me. Describe the difference. I was in Jingle and Chain. I was in like one scene. So I felt it was you were like a paint color in his painting. And like you are red, come in and be red in this corner of the painting. And as an actor, which is why I don't act a ton, that is not what I do. I am like you're this person go and let's see what happens. And Marty is like when I say, most I've ever learned from Marty is he's my hero and lucky to get to ask him questions like I get to ask you questions, etc. He creates this space where the plumbing is so intact, where the infrastructure is so intact that when you walk on to the stage, you can do anything. And it is supporting what the actor wants to do and will creatively if they want to take it to a place is still with it. He will guide you within the movie itself. So I've never felt such freedom and then sort of like just rigidity, but I love Quinn Tarantino movies as much as I love Marty's movies. There's nothing to do with the work itself. Quinn Tarantino once upon a time in Hollywood, I thought it's one of the greatest movies I've ever seen in my life. I think it is one of the most exquisite and credible movies. I think Leo's performance is unrivaled. And then he was so brilliant. I just think once upon a time, Hollywood is a complete masterpiece. It's just what I found was the process was different. That's the last movie I saw in a theater. Yeah, at the time I called it the last movie because it felt at that time like all movies were going away. And that was like you know, had real movie stars and a real director that you went to go see their movie because they're the director. What's Judd like as a director? Yeah, he's awesome. I mean, God, I didn't work with Judd in so long, but we're very close as as friends and he put me on. I mean, do you put me in super bad like end of story him and Seth and Evan IO forever. They they put me in the movie super bad. I was like completely launched. And how did that happen? I was younger, very improvisational, very open, very much wanting to mine your experiences in life for the piece itself and like is just a awesome guy. He's taught myself in a lot of other people how to make these kind of comedy movies. And I'm forever grateful for that. I went to like the Harvard on steroids of making comedy movies when I was 19, you know. So I think you've learned from all of the experiences and actor on what to do as a director. Yeah, I think you learn a tremendous amount. Most of all on how to talk to actors. But really in directing, you're running a company, you know, it's just running a mini company that dissolves after a year. The biggest thing is like as producers like it's strong, baby, we I'm always like I was in the hotel business for 15 years and I opened my own hotel. I know how to make the sheets nice. I know how people should be treated. I know what the food should be like. You know, I'm asking like, you know, it's course easy to come for a few days. I'm like, you're going to get treated nice. The set's going to run smoothly. Your time won't be wasted. You'll be respected. You know, like it's a first class experience. I believe a lot of the things I was bummed on was productions themselves. And we really work hard to make our productions great. Tell me about working with the cone brothers. Very much like Quentin. I would put them in that category of like you are the color red in this painting. It's like Alfred Hitchcock as well. Kubrick super exacting super like they have the painting in their head. And they're fucking brilliant. They made the basketball full stop. We never have to say anything ever again. And and and fun hangs and funny guys. Yeah. But I didn't find myself adding a ton. Like I wasn't like I would they were just like please sit right here say this etc. Well, I think this goes to you saying you see yourself primarily as a writer, not as an actor. Yeah. And even as an actor which I do see myself as an actor too, my foundation of acting is writing. Yeah. Whether I'm saying new words or not. What was Todd Phillips like. Awesome. How would you describe that experience? I would say a mix of the two very exacting and very open to improvisation. And I look back on that experience. I was in a way different place in life. It was a hectic shoot. It was a hard shoot. But Todd's a very very brilliant director. There's no surprise that he's had so much ginormous success. And he's made some of the best comedies ever. Old school is to me his like crown jewel. I think old school would go up with any classic Bill Murray like you know that era. Any Borat. Whatever your thing is old school is the only movie to this day I've ever seen in the theaters walked out in New York City when I was 18. Walked out and then walked back in and saw it again. Wow. The only movie to this day. I said I got to see that again right now. I read that you watch movies over and over often often and I don't go back to Todd from one sec. He was a very interesting character in movies because he'll like. He's got such a punk you know his first movie is about G.G. Allen. And it's one of the best docs ever and you can see even Joker 2 is so punk. It's almost like he wanted to be like burn it down to have to rebuild it or something. He made Joker and it was this crazy success with Joaquin. And they did such a great job. And I think the other one was almost like a middle finger in a sense to it all. And then now he's going to like like I just can't wait to see what he does next. You know I'm actually interested to see what that dude does next and Gus fans and unbelievable just with Gus the other day I did my first magazine interview. It was for interview and Scorsese interviewed me for interview so Gus was kind enough to shoot the photos. Oh great. And we've remained very close. We're producing the movie that he's directing it's strong maybe which is an incredible movie on my DGA certificate. You need three people to sign. And mine were Spike Jones Bennett Miller and Gus man said amazing. And so Gus is very near and dear to my heart. And he acts in my next movie cut off. Oh cool. How would you describe his strengths as a director? No idea. It is the most mysterious. I cannot tell you anyone who works with him adores him. It's like I have no idea. He's a man of such few words was such a part in the game to say almost anything. It's just vibe and magic and it's almost like quietness and his energy till it becomes something. I have no idea how to describe what Gus fans adds directing skills but I will tell you that is probably the best performance I've ever given in a movie in my opinion. And no one saw it and he is brilliant. Would you say stylistically he's different than everybody else? I don't know what he does and you work with him and you don't know what he does and talk that much did that give you a sense of freedom or did it make you self-conscious and that I don't know what's happening. You feel safe because it's Gus fans and that's the way I put it if he wasn't Gus fans and I'm sure me walking would have been freaking out. We were joke we're like oh cool Gus had like nothing to say today. You know and then he'd be like me to make fun of him and he'd be like oh that's very funny. So maybe for a whole day he might not say much. Walking. Hey Jonah. How are you? Good Gus how are you? Good. Good. Okay. Action. Do the take. Do the scene. Walk up to him. Walking wheels up to him in the wheelchair. Go again. Almost like nut like you're like that and then there's a great director I worked with Bennett Miller who's a genius who did money ball and his style is almost confusion till something great happens. He sometimes confused the shit out of me where he's so smart and he's I don't really follow what he's talking about a lot of the time. And then somehow he would confuse you into some master. She's a chess player so I feel like he had everything chest out and it was more like chess to him. How much do you know about the backstory of the making of the movie money ball? Everything. Okay so it was a book Michael Lewis's book best seller. And it's a nonfiction book. And if you read the book it wasn't obvious how to make a movie out of that. My dad didn't believe me because he loved the book and he said what do you mean? Like what are you going to do? It doesn't seem like you could make that a movie. I don't know how they did. I was there for it and it was amazing to watch. I can tell you how they did but Bennett's a you know there's no one out there that doesn't know that Bennett's not a true genius. He's so brilliant and what he did with that movie is amazing and how he utilized two great writers and Aaron Sorkin and Steve Zalian and kind of used their collage their work and the work I did with Brad and the one Brad and I did so much fun hanging in time with Bennett to talk about this stuff. And Brad was so his vision and I think he has a real authorship over that movie too deserves one. How do you get into surfing? Friends different friends Mike D spike very influential in me doing TM Mike D's like an uncle he's like Uncle Mike you know. He's like Uncle Mike to my kids. He really got me into surfing and TM. So those are the two biggest-- - Good boys. - That year riding the Beastie Boys movie. Oh, so I was riding the Beastie Boys movie with Adam and Mike and I produced the Beastie Boys doc that's Spike directed. So I was working on that. So we spent a whole year together and he finally convinced me to go surfing and once I started surfing, he was like you really need to do TM and both have in the past seven years I've made a massive difference in my life. No social media for the past four or five years and really limited internet, really, really limited internet. - How's that changed you? - I'd say it's the biggest change that I've had. I cringe when I think about when I was on social media as far as like what I posted and the amount of gratification I wanted. It's kind of what the movie outcomes about in a large way we all do it. We all want people to love us and like us and whatever and I cringe is at an almost middle age man I was posting like fit picks of myself like an outfits or whatever for validation. And you know, I'm not wrapped up in the constant. I don't see 20 bajillion images of day, good or bad. I don't see the hate or love. I don't see the millions of opinions a day. I get to think about what my opinions are. So much of the bad parts of creativity are when you're trying to keep up with the jails is. And when I left social media I stopped thinking outcome isn't a movie where you're like what are they doing? I should be doing outcome. Outcomes what you make when you're you just think what should I be making. And so it's freed me really creatively to like just be with my family, my thoughts and just kind of like what am I about? What am I into? You know, not what is culture into you at this moment and what should I be doing? And what should people think of me? And what should I think of myself? I just meet people and I have no idea what their social media presence is like. So I just know what their like based on us talking. - Seems more real. - I think it's the healthiest thing you could do but I also have a lot of empathy that a lot of people for their jobs have to use it. And if I had it and had to use it I would be naughty sometimes and I'd get caught in that a lot like a lot of people do. And so the movie is largely about what would happen if we just focused on our interactions? Like what would happen if we just your day starts at 8 a.m. or 7 a.m. and then you go to bed at 9 p.m. What do you do? Did you pick up the phone and call the person you should call the older guy that you should call that's like a father to you? Or did you just doom scroll? I used to have a list of like positive actions. At my time where I was trying to change my mindset the most I had two whiteboards in my kitchen. One said gratitude list, it was 10 things and one was positive actions. So one positive action could be calling mom. Just like seven years ago? Yeah, this was like around that time. It was great to see it. It was great to see that I had done 10 nice things for other people by the end of the day. Where did you get the idea to do that? Well, Stutz talks a lot about grateful flow. So gratitude, grateful flow is a mini in your head tool that it does a gratitude list. The gratitude list and it was an idea I had. No one told me to do it. I just, you know, a lot of people I know make gratitude list. But the positive actions weren't really helped because, you know, so much of the problem with like not moving forward in life is beating yourself up or like the negative thoughts you have. And I'm really good about catching them now probably from like seven years of tools. And knowing that they don't serve me, they hurt me and everyone around me if I'm beating myself up. So catching the negative thought, bucking, changing the channel and going to get on your feet and do something for somebody else. And kids are the best because what makes you feel better than wiping your kids' ass? I mean, I know that sounds crazy, but I feel like I'm a good person. He'd have poop in his butt if I didn't take it out. Like, you know, like talk about a person who needs your help, you know, or taking him to Skyzone, watching him laugh and be like, this is like, I'm getting a do shit for him that makes his life better. It makes me feel better. When you go with him to Skyzone, do you jump on the trampolines as well? Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah, I love Skyzone. Dines and I is friend from elementary school invented Skyzone, shout out Jeff Platte. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. (upbeat music) As nutrition science advanced through the mid 20th century, researchers began to understand that modern eating patterns, limited variety, processed foods and time constraints, could leave small but meaningful gaps in daily micronutrient intake. Today, large population studies confirmed that approximately 90% of adults fall short on one or more essential vitamins or minerals. AG1 was formulated in response to those findings. 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I didn't actually bring that up, but it's like, I was a lot more responsible for them. So I had to get my act together. Of course, me. And they are now 18 and 16. And I've like helped them become men, you know? And I'm so proud of them. I love these guys. And he lives on through them and they're amazing boys. Do you feel like he lives on through them or through you? Them. I think he was most proud of them. And I think he, sorry. Sorry. I think he, I think he's so proud of them. Yeah, I think he's very proud of his kids. They're fucking awesome kids. You know, there's something to be proud of. And Matt and I grew up together and we're like brothers, you know, he's my, Matt's my brother. And Uncle Mike's my brother and Spike and all those guys, they've all embarrassed, sorry. I have a lot of brothers. And then my little sister, Beaty is just so fucking awesome. Our relationship has changed so much, you know? She's a very strong person. And it's kind of always been the boss. She was 16 years younger than my brother and 10 years younger than me. So she's always been like our boss. And then she's, you know, married with an incredible wife and, and has her own booming career that has, you know, had nothing to do with mine, just her own talent. And like we've had to go through all the things that siblings go through and the differences of opinions and little fights here and there. But where we've landed is a place where like we can totally be ourselves and be there for you. each other. And it's like I urge siblings to do that. Yeah. It's work. It's like a marriage in a sense too. You know, she thinks I'm a moron, which is fair. And I think she's too uptight, which is fair. And like, you know, it's worth the effort, like it is with your partner or your friends or your business partners with siblings to do the work, because they might not always be there. I'm going to read to you a quote from the new movie. Cool. Not everything is one thing. I mean everything in this conversation just because the camera's a rolling doesn't mean it's not real. Just because it's performative doesn't mean it's not the truth. Tell me about that. I love you Rick. You see the things I want you to see. So Reeves mom played by Susan Lucci brilliantly in the film shout out to Ellen Lewis our casting director. She's a brilliant. Maybe the greatest of all time cast good fellows, et cetera. She had the idea to cast Susan Lucci, which was an astonishing choice. And Susan was brilliant. So Reeves mom, Keanu's mom, he has to go make an amends too, but she will only receive the amends on camera during an episode of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, which she has a cast member on. He has to appear on a reality show to make amends to his mom. And you don't realize if he starts his amends and then you she asked him to take that again, meaning say that again, because the label of her drink wasn't facing camera and she's got to get her be quit with her sponsorships. So yeah, this is probably the most heady scene in concepts, but one I love the most in the movie, which is things can be many different things, right? You know, the scene is long and goes many different directions in a way that I'm really proud of and her current young performance both are brilliant. Keanu gives such a quiet, beautiful performance in that scene. But he didn't respect her choice to be on that show and views her as lower. She won't even accept his amends unless it's monetized. She used his fame for her own benefit and then she goes on to remind him how she left her marriage in her husband at 19 for him for his dream and moved out to LA stayed at the Oakwood apartments and 19 years old no supportive family left her husband, which ended up ending their relationship. Also, he could live his dream because he was obsessed with it. He would not just ask for it, not just begging for it, but she says tantrums, days long tantrums. And you can imagine what this 19 year old woman was going through with this five year old who was relentless. And she says that quote and he was, what are apologies? Are they for you? Are they for me? Like who are they for? What are they for? And I just think it's such an awesome thing because we so quickly want to say things are good and bad. Are they real or they're not? Are they whatever? But they're a lot of shit. And there's good and bad to both. And there's lies and truths to both. And there's falseness and genuineness in both. I can say this to you and want to monetize it, but I could still mean it. I could say something in the most private intimate setting and not mean it. Hey, I love that scene. I love that scene. I think it's probably the most important scene in the movie. And it taught me a lot through writing it. It really messes with your perception because our first instinct is this is the most shallow thing we've ever seen. And then she says something like that and it's profound. I'm so happy you felt that way. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, that's just sick. That's a real rug pull out moment for the audience. The last thing on earth you're expecting from Susan Lucci playing a real housewives mom is like depth. Yeah, it all makes sense. It's amazing. You know, it's a funny, a funny person in my life. A great person in my life is our Emanuel. Yeah. I've worked with him in different capacities. He's my agent and I've been surprised at how people view are because there have been many times in my life where the most profound thing I had heard like all year in a deep, deep emotional level. They've come from him. Yeah. You know, a guy who's pegged as, you know, in a superficial industry, the most superficial job in the most superficial industry and just cares about deals and this and business. Some of the most insanely profound life advice in really heavy moments have come from him. And so I think he's a big inspiration in this movie in that within Hollywood and all of its falseness and all of its this and it's that there is real depth and real people that populated as well. The film is a parody about Hollywood and fame. Would you say it's wildly amplified from reality or is it closer to reality than we might know? Not at all. I don't think it is farther than you think. I think it is. It's not amplified. I think it honestly, there are things that are real that are way too broad to fit in the movie. That would feel too broad to fit in the movie. And even some of the stuff I put in feels too broad to people. So as outrageous as the movie is, it's representative. Yes. Absolutely. Can you think of any example in your life of something that happened where you just couldn't believe it happened because it was just so outrageous? Yes. Is there one in a comfortable sh*t? I mean the dude college dropout came out before I was famous. Okay. Before I was like in movies and sh*t. I had probably was the biggest con in the biggest Kanye fan is was whatever you want to say of his art of anyone in the world. If you want to talk about surreal Kanye West went on a Jew hating tour and then Instagram that I'm the reason he actually loves Jews. If you want to say something is too big to be real, that is an example of it. Like it's from outer space. The whole thing is completely from outer space. But now that I get to live a true quote unquote normal life. Like I really get to live in normal ass life. I am so grateful for it. It used to be like how crazy are all these outlandish things that are happening when you're in your 20s and stuff and all this stuff with movies and stuff happens. And now I live like I don't live in a mansion when I'm not shooting. The whole job is writing and editing which is I can walk from my my house from breakfast with my family drop my son off at preschool is next to my office. I go to my office. I edit or write for nine to five come home walk on the beach with the fam eat some dinner get the bath ready wipe the butts eat some high-choose strawberry flavor candy which I shouldn't have and then hit the sack started over the next day 6 a.m. with blippy and blah blah you know and I'm like how blessed in my I just feel blessed that I get to have a family. I feel blessed that I get to feel that kind of love. I feel so blessed to be a dad. I feel so blessed that as a person for most but as a comedian second or a comedic voice let's say as a writer second I get to go from being barked to Homer. You know and so I'm really excited for this new era of my work as I am with my life. You do always want to be a dad? Yeah I just didn't know if I'd be able to do it. The movie starts the personal part from my end of studs when the movie had to become personal for me was my fear of not being able to pull off having kids or a family or if I was always going to be too like working or in my own shit to do it. Yeah and I think by the time we were mixing it or locked it we were pregnant. Congratulations. Thanks dude. Yeah so it's almost like the film had to be an art project that got you to the place that you really wanted to be. I mean I think about that a lot obviously a lot of artists will say the same thing clearly my medium is movies though surely studs in mid 90s came from a very personal place. More so you know outcome and cut off the all my movies will be personal but abstractly those two were personal. Do you talk about going to your writing room for the day? Any of the writing or editing? My office yeah. Describe what that process looks like. Are you by yourself or you with somebody? It changes from movie to movie you know so it's not always the same but like right now I'm editing cut off right so I'm on in my office by myself on a system called Evercast which is awesome which is like a better zoom for editing movies where we put all control things and my editor is at Warner Brothers her team as a whole office they're working on the stuff that we give the team to do while me her and our producer Amanda Adelson and my assistant cat Aguilar are all on Evercast but I love that place that's my shangra law but it's just one little room. When you're not editing but writing let's say it's the beginning of a project what does that look like? The beginning of a project it's falling in love. You have these ideas you have millions of ideas everything for me and originally when it's just me is run out of my notes section so ideas like let's say for cut off the original idea there was I had worked with Jennifer Lawrence on "Don't Look Up" and I was like, "Gene and I are so funny together and more so, Jen is so more funny than I've ever seen her be in a movie. I want to make a movie where we both get to kill equally hard, but it's not like a romantic movie. So the way I thought to do that would be like brother and sister. So I thought of us as siblings, then twins, then rich obnoxious twins that get cut off in their mid-40s and have to go to the Valley with zero dollars per year and have no idea how to tie their shoes. It's something that inspires that the story can come from there. It's not really, it's like the players, the artists or the feeling or the idea or whatever. - So it often have to do with the people or nothing. - People, I love these people. So it didn't end up being Jen. She couldn't do the movie because she was having a baby. And so it ended up being Kristen Wigg who I'm over the moon about, who's the funniest person on the planet. So it ended up being Jen starting this idea. And then she had nothing to do with the movie except giving me the idea just by loving her. And then so with the ideas, you have three or four, you're kind of batting around like premises or like what they could be, right? Let's say like Beastie Boy's movie, cut off outcome. And then whatever one you can't stop thinking about and you can't stop writing notes in your right note section about you know, you'll have a note section for each one. Everything runs out of my note section. So if I can't stop thinking of ideas for one or it's just like one day you just go. - Oh yeah. I don't care about anything else. - Do you only do this when you're in the writing room or 24/7? - All the time. I'm present with my family and I work on it and I'm not always perfect at it. - But ideas come all the time and you know them. - Yeah. And I have to say to everyone around me like also because I hate that I'm on my phone but my note section is on my phone. So sometimes I'm writing in my note section and it looks like I could just be fucking on on my phone. And a lot of, I say to everyone, a lot of my job is staring at a wall. So maybe look like I'm doing nothing but I'm thinking about this thing for years on end, the same thing. And then the other cool part I wanna say that it's not just creative is, if let's say I'd become obsessed with the idea and I go this is it, I'm in love. I then take it to Dines and we strategize and Ari and Ricky Warren are manager and we strategize is this a movie that we could get made with who, what is the infrastructure of that movie? And then we have to decide whether we're gonna go forward based on can this actually be the next two years of our life pragmatically? So we have to formulate, the business plan can be as creative but if I let's say it's something so off the wall with no stars or anything, we have to go, I still may do it like Stuts. - Yeah. - And then it was banging down my door to make Stuts. And I'll go fuck it, I'll eat it and lose a bunch of money for a few years because I have to. But we make that decision together that night. (upbeat music) - LMNT, Element Electrolikes. Have you ever felt dehydrated after an intense workout or a long day in the sun? You want to maximize your endurance and feel your best? Add Element Electrolikes to your daily routine. Perform better and sleep deeper. Improve your cognitive function. Experience an increase in steady energy with fewer headaches and fewer muscle cramps. Element Electrolikes. Drink it in the sauna. 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But I wanna say about McKay, he's goaded. He's goaded. And we got to work together during COVID. So it wasn't like really, it was all, we made that movie right in the middle of beginning a COVID like a height of it. So we were all separated. It wasn't a great movie making experience 'cause COVID was so fucked. But like, I love Adam McKay. And I think step-brothers is probably, you know, could be the funniest movie I've ever made. - Tell me about your parents. - Rich and Sharon, they're awesome. You know, their parents, they have their flaws and they're great attributes. But now that I am a parent, I think they're a lot greater than I would have. I would have given them shit. And now that I am a parent, I'm like, oh my gosh. Are my kids gonna say that I suck to a therapist and make a movie about it? (laughs) You know, like, fuck this shit, I wiped your ass. And I like, call them all the time and just say thanks and I'm sorry, you know? 'Cause I'm like, you guys were like 20, whatever. You know, I'm 42 making mistakes. You know, you're 20 something making mistakes and you wiped my ass, you know? So like, how dare I not, I used to don't, you have no perspective. 'Til you have-- - What's their relationship like? - They're like classic, bickering old Jewish couple. They've been together since they were like teenagers. Literally, long Island years have been together since they were teenagers. I'll probably see them after this. - Tell me about your relationship with Seth Robin. - I love Seth. I'm so happy for Seth and Evan and they're crazy success with the studio. Like, it's so cool to watch them have this new realm of success too. It feels like a big chapter for them. I mean, all those guys, everything. They gave me, they wrote super bad and they let me place the guy in super bad, which I would have been something in comedy, but they gave me the opportunity of a lifetime, you know? And I love them and I make an effort with them to still try and go to dinner with everybody. I'm the annoying one because I'm the smallest one now where I was the most probably out to lunch that like, I'm more like, I'm more like guys. We really should all get dinner and like, you know, like see how everybody's doing and like we had a really great dinner recently. That was like hours long and just laughing and making fun of our parents and everything. - Would you remember about that first part of super bad? Tell me about being invited to be part of it. - You just knew as the shit. It was the best script I've ever read to this day. They worked on it for 10 years and Judd infused so much like emotion into it. I think I inspired them to do that. They had just worked on it for so, you know, we worked on something for 10 years it doesn't get made and they never gave up. And so it's got better and better and we were making knocked up and then like I was able to read it and stuff. I did a table read where I played a different character. Joe with True Gilles' character, the guy gets hit by the car and they were like real teenagers playing the like kids. So everyone thought I was too old, but I just knew. I was like, if I get this movie like, it's a game changer and I knew the movie was gonna be successful because it was so funny. It was like Seth and Evan had just, it was really their writing, you know? And then Michael, Michael Sarah is just, I can't talk about my career in my life without talking about Michael. He's one of my best friends to this day. He's such a beautiful friend and he's just the funniest person. Him and Kristen Wager, the two funniest people. - Do you ever ruin a scene by laughing? - Me? - Yeah. - Yes, all the time. - All the time. - It's just too funny? - Yeah, cracks me up. Now that I'm directing too, I'm the worst. I'll be in the scene directing it and I'll break it. 'Cause I'm like, I'm also laughing at the absurd. I'm like, some of them directing the scene, I'm in it. I'm like, I'm fucking talking directing Kiana Reeves, but I'm in it and I've bald and I look like an insane person. And like, he goes, "I'll just crack up at like the absurdity of life." But I break scenes all the time. I encourage you to be like false or something, but like, God damn, there's no problem with having a good time. - How is acting in a drama different than acting in a comedy? - I've only done like a couple like real where there were no, it wasn't both or something, you know? Or-- - Was Moneyball the first dramatic role? - I think I had one before that. Now as an older, there's not much difference to it. I give you all the beauty is one thing. I'd have to get cast now in a drama I wasn't directing. - Yeah. - That's the way I could answer that question. You know, I've done, like I rather, there's a, I think there's one knockout traumatic scene with me and Kiana's characters, not 'cause of me, but 'cause of Kiana and the person who plays my son in the movie. And that's a, I think of dramatic scene I'm very proud of. And there was no doubt. You know, this difference is just honoring what that is. - Have you ever been acting in a scene and get so lost in it that you forget it's a movie? - Yes, yes. - Feels like it's really happening. - Yes, the best one by far is acting with Joaquin. I say acting with Joaquin is like being directed by Scorsese. I'll say acting with Joaquin and Leo is like the same level of like quality, like four seasons of acting, four seasons of being directed is by Marty. When you act with those guys, it's like, is it real? And Joaquin's style is more like mine where it's more like convincing yourself kind of stuff. Not like I'm as good of an actor as him. But like Leo's just such a trained talented actor. He could talk about normal life and then they'll actually do the best acting you've ever seen. Whereas Joaquin is more like me. I have to kind of like think about it all day if I'm acting in a movie and I have to like do pretend something sad is about to happen. So those scenes we had together in the Gus Van Sant movie, I can really forget I was there. And really access emotion and I'll always thank him for that. There was the best acting experience in my life. There's one scene in particular and I cried 'cause I cried today and it's funny. I don't cry very often. I cried during that scene and it was real. And I was the only time that's ever happened to me. Like I've cried scenes and been supposed to. But it was because it was like, and not because I was accessing my own life. Was it in the script that you were supposed to cry or you just cried 'cause that's what happened? It cried just 'cause that's what happened. And it was because you were taken over. Tade over by like what I was supposed to be feeling as this person. Yeah. And that had never happened to me. It hasn't happened in me since. And you think it was because of how convincing they were. I think it's 'cause Joaquin sets the table for you to allow yourself to feel that and he's doing that. Yeah. And then you gotta give all credit to Gus. It's just something I can't describe what he does, but Gus does something to create an environment where that happens. Yeah, Gus doesn't say anything, but that happens. He's doing something that's making that happening and that's the director that's doing that along with your other actor, you know? Was the Phil Stutt's documentary the last thing that you put out? The last thing that I put out was the Stutt's documentary and then right after a movie called You People that Kenya Bears directed. And I didn't do press. So that's when I stopped doing press was like when those two came out. And the main reason was I really didn't want to do press for Phil's movie. You know, I love the movie Stutt's. Like I'm upset. And that sounds so bad to Phil. It's a, I didn't want to capitalize on a movie that was designed to help other people. I didn't want to have to get a pat on the back or not a pat on the back. I did it for a very pure reason. And I just wanted to go out there and help the people who were supposed to help. And not have to talk about it or like make it like I was getting clout from it or something. - How did the idea to make it come? - The idea to make Stutt's came. I couldn't figure out what my second movie was. Best piece that I was talking to, actually talking to Marty the other day about how I will never be in a position where a movie locks and I don't know what my next movie is. I will never do that ever again. It's after mid 90s, it was all I worked on for years. And then it locked and I had no idea what I was going to do. And so I was creatively, I was directing a lot of music videos and commercials. I was writing a Beastie Boys movie with Adam and Mike because I thought, okay, well, people liked mid 90s and I got offered all these movies to direct. And luckily I knew Mike and Adam and the book had just come out. And Spike Jones was gonna produce it and Spike I think vouch for me is kind of being the person that should direct the movie. And I adapted it with Mike and Adam, which was an incredible year, but we ultimately, I realized you don't, you don't write the Bob Dylan movie with Bob Dylan. (laughing) Bob Dylan can't be there while you're writing it. And Adam is like, that didn't fucking have. (laughing) - 'Cause you want to make the best movie and then you want to tell the stories. - And you guys are my heroes and like, I never want to bump them out. And it was the book of the best years of my life. I got to spend a year with Adam and Mike writing. Like, it was one of the most, like how this is a gold standard experience. I wouldn't trade the time, but I had no idea when that movie didn't go, I had no idea what I was gonna do. So I was just kind of creatively like, what am I gonna, you know, if you make movies and you're lucky enough to do this, and especially if you don't have a family yet, you pour everything into it. So when you're left with nothing to pour stuff into, you're confused. So my friend Joaquin Phoenix, who introduced me to Phil Stutz, funny person to have introduced you to your therapist, is like, hey, I've been doing some interviews with Phil and I want to make something ball-ball and he kind of was talking to me about it in a way where he wasn't sure about what he was making or what it was gonna be. And he had seen mid-90s and it was a big proponent of that movie. And he was kind of in the conversation. I felt like he was asking me to do it. - Was Phil unlike anyone you've ever met? - Yeah. So Stutz, you meet him and you kind of, you enter his space and it is like a dojo. It's got like, you know, you see it in the movie. It's like, it's got power to it. And it like, your first talk with him, you kind of leave being like, I'm a, if I choose to, on the doctor, go on like a really significant journey, which sounds kind of woo-woo or whatever, but you're like, coming, you meet someone and go, you know what, if I go do this, it's gonna be an important thing that I go do. And it was. It helped me a lot. And a lot along with a lot of other things. But I go back and forth about that movie a lot of whether it was smart to make it. - Tell me your thoughts about that. - I felt the reason for making it was as simple as this. This is what I told Netflix when I pitched it. I wanna make a movie about the tools, right? That shows the tools. So if you're a kid that doesn't have a lot of money and your parents, let's say, won't let you do therapy and it's stigmatized or you need to watch it in private or you can't afford to go get. If you have a Netflix account or access to one, you can privately watch this movie that will give you therapeutic tools to help your life. Where you can do it without shame, you can do it without money. And if you're in like a third world country, like whatever. And then the full circle to that was, I went surfing an El Salvador and all the kids were yelling studs at me. And my friend and he translated it was, 'cause they had all loved studs. And they had all watched it. And they were like 10, 11 years old. - That's amazing. It was epic. It was the whole reason I did it. But being vulnerable for me is not hard, right? Like during that movie, I was non-camera originally and then I injected myself into it and Joaquin was a big part of why I did that. As a producer, he was like, you know, it feels weird that you're not, you know, talking about your own stuff alongside this stuff. And for the movie, it was the absolute right thing to do. I'm really proud of the film itself. I'm proud of, really proud of how great Phil feels about it. And it's not like any other documentary. - And I really appreciate that. And I've gotten that response from a lot of people, I admire and a lot of people. But I do feel I was, I would say in a sense, punished for being so vulnerable or like people calling itself serving or that. I think I'm some sort of evolved person and I'm not. - I'm not sure. - You had kids shouting studs at you. - Yeah. And I guess neither of them actually, really at the end of the day, drive why I'd make something. I have to make something because I have to make it. And I had to make that and I did. But what I'm saying was it wasn't as comfortable of an aftermath for me as some of the movies. - It's also a beautiful filmmaking. It's really original. - Thank you. And I think it was probably the hardest movie I'll ever make. - Not everybody's ready to see it at a particular time. - Yeah, I guess maybe the people that were hard on me, were people that don't wanna look at that stuff or face that stuff. And maybe some people's reactions were that. But I will say I know Phil is so happy and I wanted to honor Phil. And I know a lot of people who have come up to me and said that they, it's helped them. And a lot of people who are studying to become therapists that they show it at school. - Yeah. - And I was like, damn, that is cool. - There's no other therapists like Phil Stutz. - No. - He's truly one of a kind. - He is one of a kind. Even for letting me do that, you know? But his insight to things without having the answers himself are what make him able to meet, able to receive advice from him. - In the first meeting you had with him, did he do a drawing? - Yeah. - Right away. - Yeah, yeah, I can probably tell you what it was. It must have been the shadow, something about the shadow. 'Cause we went over the shadow in the first meeting and that was like mind blowing to me. I had done therapy my whole adult life. That was more of just me kind of sitting and bitching in the therapist. (laughing) And this fucking guy cut me off and I'm pissed about that, you know, like whatever. It was the first guy kind of broke down. Like here's why you may feel this way and like how you spoke to yourself and we're spoken to when you're younger. Maybe you like plays out a lot in this stuff and just mind blowing stuff that I had never heard put in a funny and digestible way, which is why I thought, oh, this could really work, is it? - Yeah. - How many different projects are you developing? - I don't know, 30, something around there. It could be anything from a grateful, dead movie that we're producing that I won't be in or won't direct. I'm also the director of my movies. So when it's one of my movies, if that's what's in production, I have to keep my eye mostly on that. - Can you imagine directing a movie that you're not in? Yeah, totally. - Is that the dream? - Well, mid '90s I wasn't in. So my first movie I wasn't in, and I've directed a bunch of commercials and music videos that I wasn't in. So during that 10 year period, I really wanted to not be someone who just wanted to be a writer or director. I had been writing big movies since I was young. So that was nothing new. Like I've written on the Jump Street movies, and like, you know, all the movies I've been in as a funny actor, all writing and ideas are, they come from, when they come from, whenever you believe they come from. I think we're like an, - What do you believe they come from? - I think we're an open channel. And if you're open, ideas come to you through some sort of, whatever you believe in. And what I believe is that I don't come up with anything that I'm lucky enough to be like a vessel that these mostly comedic ideas come through. And I feel so lucky that the high that I get from this, besides solving a Rubik's cube of really hard work, is a moment of creative, a creative joke or idea comes from whatever channel is open. How lucky are we that we get to be in the room when that happens? - It's a miracle when it happens. - And it's the greatest feeling besides hanging out with your son. - Totally addictive. Totally addictive. - Yeah, and it's just as gratifying to me when the plumbing starts to work. That's why I like the boring length pipe of the job also because-- - The craftsman aspect. - Yeah, because a great joke or a great idea, a really cool paint color isn't shit if the wall falls down, or the toilet's open blow. You gotta do all the homework, I call it. Like all the homework of it in between those blasts of creative moments are now very gratifying to me to more than gratifying. I like to cherish them and I love that I get to be a part of that. - What was the initial seed idea for the new movie? - The first thought was I was paying attention to what was going on with people with a huge form of entertainment becoming a celebrity getting in trouble for something. And I was watching like we all were all this happening and I thought who's the person that we'd all be the most bummed, gotten trouble for something. And the answer was Keanu Reeves. So I was like, God, everyone loves Keanu Reeves. No one would be so bummed if he was an axe murderer or something, right? And that was all I had and I was like, I wanna make a movie where Keanu's like a movie star, a good love movie star. And he gets a call from his crazy crisis lawyer, Ira, played by me. And he just goes, there's a video. And that was the initial idea. And you feel the panic in Keanu Reeves. And to Keanu's credit, I called him and that was all I had. And he came over to my house in Malibu, where I used to live. And I pitched him that and he said, go write it, I'm in. And he never wavered from me, from that day forward. And that was like three years ago. - That's why he's the guy you'd be so bummed to hear he did something bad 'cause he's that guy. - He's that great of a human being. And he's just an amazing guy. I've never met somebody so hardworking, so dedicated. And it was trippy for me 'cause my first movie, my first two movies, one was like a bunch of skater kids that weren't actors. And then the other one was about Phil Stutt's My Therapist. So I directed movie stars, you know? So it was like my first camera test of outcome. It was like Keanu Reeves, Cameron Diaz, Martin Scorsese. You like, I was like, wow, I'm directing like a big Hollywood movie. And then this next one is the same way with a bunch of stars. And it's like, I kind of start implementing stars into the movie or iconic figures that I love into the movies. And it's become a whole new level of mixing like more the documentary style or more like visceral style of things I was making earlier on. To also incorporating all the big Hollywood movies I love in my joy of those into my work now. Do you feel like the best work always feels like a documentary regardless of whether it is or not? That's such a complex answer because now everything is different. Every single thing is different. Like somethings cannot feel real in a great way. Some things can feel super real. You know, you can't always want like the emotion to be real maybe, even if it's outlandish. Like my newer movie, the one called Cut Off, is with me and Kristen Wigg and we play two moronic heirs that get cut off in their mid 40s by their rich parents played by Bet Middle or Nathan Lane. Wow. And it's more like Preston Sturgers or the jerk. You know, it's like it's total screwball comedy. But even in that I'm finding as I'm editing it, I'm like, wow, when I screen it or when I watch it, I go, you do want some emotion and you're really hanging this on. Even if it's absurd. But I used to just view movie making as it should be as real as possible. And then I think of movies like a movie I always come back to that I love. And when my favorite director is Mike Nichols and the birdcage is a movie that I thought a lot about for outcome. And I think about a lot of my own filmmaking now, which is there's things that feel so unreal about that movie that the emotions are super, super real. So maybe an emotional documentary, but not always in its like fixtures. Does it have to feel like a dog? A new movie is definitely emotional. And the premise is funny, but the actual interactions are really heavy. Yes. From the beginning, did you know it was going to be as emotional as it turned out? No. The best advice I've gotten from Mr. Scorsese was we had dinner with them like before we started and he's in the movie. And he just said, always listen to the movie. Just always listen to the movie. It's telling you everything. Don't be rigid. He's great in the movie. I know it's funny to say because he's Martin Scorsese, but he really is phenomenal in the movie. His performance is heartbreaking. He really gives a beautiful performance. I can't believe I directed a beautiful performance by Martin Scorsese, but here we are. And when he saw the movie and told me what he thought, that was a pretty special moment for me. But no, I wanted it to be more of a comedy with a capital C. And I got to give it up to Apple. They're a great company to make movies at because they loved what it was becoming. They saw it was becoming more of like, probably, you know, maybe more in the Jim Brooks or Mike Nichols direction. And they didn't say, walk towards it. They said, run towards it. We'd rather make a movie that's funny and moving than a movie that's just funny. And I was so grateful that they supported us in that because it was different than what I even wrote and what we even shot, you know, in a lot of ways. Because it's a comedic premise. The premise is essentially he has this video come out. That's going to come out. That's fearful of coming out. And his crisis lawyer played by me, Ira, makes him go, make a man's to everybody, apologize to everybody in his life that he hurt, but not to be a better person, but to find out who's extorting him. Which is a very funny, dark, dark funny premise, was always the premise of the movie. So he'd go on this immense journey, but in no way to enlighten himself, for really like self-serving reasons. And each one of those apologies, when I started like almost writing them to shoot, because there's the writing he write as a script, and then there's the writing he write to shoot, the truth of it was that Keanu's character, Reef, had to be surprised about what they were hurt from by his behavior. That each one had to be like a rung pulled out from under him. He's apologizing for one thing, but that's not even the thing they're upset about. It's like you're so far off from being healthy that you can't even pinpoint the thing you did wrong was. And it starts with Marty's character, who's his childhood manager. This guy works out of a bowling alley. I didn't come up with the idea of it being out of a bowling alley. Out of bowling alley? Yeah. In the valley, there's this pins, which is like a bowling alley. That was around even growing up in LA when we were young. It's near the Oakwood apartments, which is where the child actors, I've seen documentaries, and of course I'm an actor, so you know all about this stuff. There's this place called the Oakwood apartments where all kids move with a dream with their moms or dads or go out to California to try and get on a show or get on a Nickelodeon show or something, and it's like these apartments. And there's guys that kind of scout the apartments. And the character, Richie Red Rodriguez, who's already in the morning plays, he's like this schlocky guy who signs kids and some of them turn out to be fucking Johnny Depp and some of them turn out to be, you know, nothing of note, you know, or a major note. But he knows his inevitability. It's more like the philosophical characters. The guy who knows if he does his job right, you leave him. He says it. He says it. Yeah. And that's kind of like, if I do my job right, you leave me. He goes, I know that. I don't want to act out the scene, but it's beautiful. And the way Marty does it is beautiful. And he goes, I know what the fuck I am. And there's a lot of rules in life. It wasn't just about, you know, the movie's not about Hollywood. It's about people we encounter on our journeys who you know are temporary. And maybe you are that person who's temporary for someone. Like I always remember when I was growing up, one of my first girlfriend and she was so beautiful and so smart. Even at the time, I was like, you know, like I'm temporary until you meet someone that you will like fall for because you're so wonderful. So we've all been on both sides of that. Do we discard those people? So the message a lot of it is like, it's okay that that is their function, but they don't have to be discarded. And in fact, my big thing is it's so hard for me to call like my dad or studs. Like people who are father, that whole thing is like, it's so hard to just pick up the phone and just say, how are you doing? It's really hard. I don't know if it's for everybody, but it's like, or when my grandparents were alive, you'd go visit your grandma. I'd go visit my grandma and always like, gotta go visit Nanny. And I loved her. It wasn't like, you don't love them. It's just, I don't know. You know what you know I'm talking about? I do. It's just that effort it takes to do something. You know it's great for you and them, but you don't do it a lot. And years fly by sometimes, you know? You usually don't realize it until it's too late. Until it's too late. And so that was about realizing now to appreciate the people you should be calling and going to check in on. Do you think that came from your work with Phil Stutz? I think a lot of things come from my work with Phil Stutz. That one in particular, he's a figure like that for me that's like a, you know, fatherly uncle figure or my own dad who I'm loving and close with. But sometimes I just don't pick up the phone enough to say like, how are you doing? Do you know anyone who's gone on an immense tour? I know plenty of people who have. Yeah. Tell me about the conversations you've had with them. This was a comedic version because it is a tour. It is like tour dates, you know? He's so, he's checking them off. He's so focused on self preservation that he makes it almost like a checklist job. But I found in most cases that I've heard about that it's usually from a less sinister place than that. And just apologies when you get to them. In the opening scene of a movie, a lovable hero has shown us two faced. Do you do that to humanize him or to vilify him? So the whole movie is about social media from the beginning to the end. It's a story based in Hollywood. But it is about how even your 12-year-old niece has turned into a middle-aged scorched lifelong movie star. Because everyone, because of social media, is judged 20 times a day about everything that they wear, do, or say. The main point of the movie is that like, my nephews, I started to see have the same paranoia that I would have as a famous person about being liked on a grand scale. And how we can value that, which is truly impossible, over the opinions of the three people you actually are around. And so when I say a new outlook, I only give a fuck what I'm seeing right here. My friends and my colleagues who are like family a strong baby. And the people I live with, my family, I have to say about me. Because it is an impossible life-long, crippling road to nowhere. But as human beings, we all, of course, care so deeply about what people think about us know us or not. So the movie is about that. And so what I wanted to show right away was a guy, I was just trying to throw you curve balls where you couldn't peg him down. He's nice. He is a movie star. He's humble. He's not humble. He's laid back in casual, but all he does is care about what you're thinking about him in the most uncasual manner ever. And it was an exciting opening for me. It reminded me of those kind of great-- So Keanu, there's one scene in parenthood I'm obsessed with. I love the movie parenthood. But Keanu, kind of, he's going off on Martha Plimpton and Diane Weast. And he's kind of off the rails yelling at them kind of in it. And I was like, I want to make a movie with that guy. Because he's always so cool. He is cool. He's always so like John Wick and stuff. I was like, I want to see a guy who's like you. You can't emotionally peg down. And he's not in control of his emotions. So that opening kind of reflects a guy who is just a mess. He's just a mess. And no idea who he is. He has no identity. And through talking to these people that he's hurt, I think he's learning his identities in asshole. [LAUGHTER] And then hopefully by the end, you learn how do we take some small steps to not be an asshole. Is Keanu's character in the movie more based on the real Keanu Reeves or is he more based on the real John Et Hale? Neither. Neither. Made up character. Yeah, totally made up character. I mean, I'm not like a Tom Cruise-type figure like Reeph Hawke is. I would say more of a Don Rickles, a Sancio Panzas character. But there's things I relate to about all the characters in my movies, for sure. This is my third movie, but third and fourth movie really as you'll see. I love him relate to all of them. I can surely relate to parts of Reefe, but I'm in no way. If my family met when they see the movie, they don't go like, "Wow, that's Jonah." It's not Keanu from what I've found. The one funny anecdote I will say about that though part is, because the character does have anxiety which I've had in my life, Keanu did not understand what or how to portray anxiety. He hadn't felt it in a sense that he understood it. So he experienced it in life, but didn't know how to portray it because he never had to portray it? No, I could understand it in life. Oh, he's never experienced anxiety. That was the essence of what I got. Now, if I'm wrong, I will immediately take this back. No, that's great. But when he were working on the character, he did not understand something I go, "That's called anxiety." Like, "That's called anxiety." That sounds like a great conversation. It was. And every conversation with him was great because I go like, "Why is he freaking out about what someone?" And he's like, "This person really would do this?" And I go, "Yeah." You know? He always used to hear all these stories about Larry David. Like Jason Alexander would go, "How could you do this?" Nobody would do this. He go, "I did that." And as well, I'm very much not a reef, but I would care in that way or spin out about the smallest thing. And you know, it's why I loved working with him. I mean, there's a million reasons I loved working with him. I loved working with everybody. Everybody in this movie was just unbelievable. And the making of the movie was unbelievable. So much of today's life happens on the web. Squarespace is your home base for building your dream presence in an online world. Building a website is easy, using one of Squarespace's best in-class templates. With a built-in style kit, you can change fonts, imagery, margins, and menus. So your design will be perfectly tailored to your needs. Discover unbreakable creativity with fluid engine, a highly intuitive drag-and-drop editor. No coding or technical experience is required. 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Mine was like, didn't want to admit it changes your life, it does, and then you got to like hopefully catch yourself and be like, you got to rebuild from like square one. Figure out who you are now. Just what it is all about from the first square step from waking up in the morning until going to bed. And if you're lucky enough to have that insight and time or tenacity to do that, then you're blessed. When you're doing an acting role, how much preparation do you do? It's all writing. It might as well. It's all, even if I'm acting, it's basically like writing a book on that person. Is it always about the language or is it something else? Now I say writing a book about that person, meaning what music they listen to, what books they've read, what clothes they've. - I see. - It's like if you're writing the book. He wears this, if you're writing the book, he goes, "He wears this casual beach outfit because he lives by the ocean and he likes to relax." And what does that say about him and this and that? And I haven't acted, just straight acted in a long time. I'm looking forward to like just acting, you know? If a role came up, it would be really fun. But in the meantime, we're on such a role in making these movies that I'm acting and and directing. It kind of always become one thing. I guess that's the way I would put it. The real answer to that is it's all acting, writing, so I say it's all writing. When I make these movies, it's all encompassing. It's like the whole family's involved, all of our friends are involved. It's like, it's like an implying IRL, let's say an outcome. It's all just much as being the writer or the director. - Do you remember what I was first lying in the movies? - Do I have shit on my face? Is that it still or was that an old line? - I know that's it. - Yeah, he had a cream cheese on his face. And I love that as an opening line, which was, he has cream cheese on his face. Do I have shit on my face? - He gives us a lot of information right out of the box. - Ira's a character. He's top five, if not top three for me, that I've ever played. I love Ira. I fucking love Ira. - Is he based on anyone you know? - His job is kind of based on the icons of that job, like a Marty Singer, people like that who are like historically, you know, if you killed someone you would call if you were in that position, right? So I thought it was a great comedic character because he's a guy with no judgment. A guy like that has no judgment. So I wanted to play that character because I was like, well, imagine a guy who by principle can't judge anybody else, right? His whole livelihood falls apart if he brings an ounce of judgment. So if you sat here, you're his client and you say, Ira, I killed someone, he has to go, okay, and he has to just get to the backs of it and where we're at and why and where are we with it? Before, you know, he doesn't go like, what the fuck? And so I thought there's inherently someone so funny comedically with a darkly comedic lack of judgment. And well, what's unique, he ends up being a surprisingly, the thing I'm most proud of, the movie does this. Ira's like a miniature part of the movie. Is the movie does this where you think it's this thing and it's kind of shallow or whatever and it ends up being surprisingly deep. And I think Ira's the best bird, you know that 'cause he's the easiest character to peg is just a quote unquote bad person by what he does and who his clients are and what how he lives his life. But when you start to peel back the onion, you start to see layers of a guy, those things can be true of what he does or it can be deplorable, but like you start to see him as a human being and thought he was fucking hilarious and landish and as that landish is I could play him, it wouldn't come close to the real life people that are like this. - What was the first movie you were ever cast in? - I Heart Huckabees directed by David O'Russell. - How did that happen? - That happened because I knew the Hoffman family, it was Dustin Hoffman's family. Their kids, Jake is one of my great friends to this day. They're all amazing, the whole family's amazing. And I was starting to do like kind of, I wouldn't call it stand up traditionally. I was starting to do these kind of like plays one man shows that could kind of like almost spoken word kind of things. - Where would you do those? - In New York City at a bar called Black and White, they have an open mic every Sunday night and they kind of started becoming popular and at the same time I started making these prank call CDs that I would pass around to friends and-- - How long would you have set be in those days? - I'd like to open my mic. - It could be anything, they were so cool because it was like honestly, I think it was like a spoken word like poetry kind of night. Really great people, Chris B.T. and Johnny T. Really awesome guys, I was 18, I shouldn't have been allowed in the bar and you know, I would think of the most outlandish premise I could think of and it would be more like storytelling, one man show storytelling kind of. - Would you write it before you got on stage or would you write it on stage? - So the cool part that was cool is it would happen every Sunday night. I would start Monday and have to perform Sunday. - Like being on a weekly TV show? - Exactly, so whatever you perform is gone and you're left with nothing. So you've got to find the premise. And the crowd was-- - With people left. - Yeah, they crack up. And you know it's funny, I like got this moment where I was all kind of like self-serious and like wasn't in the comedy and stuff and it was all rooted in just like not knowing who I was and stuff and the second I got happy in life, you know, the second I like had my first kid and was happy and like smiling, all I wanted to do was be funny. And all I wanted to do my whole life was make my friends laugh, you know? So it has been like the greatest couple of years, like three years, four years of making these movies with my friends, with my family, being funny because if I could think of the best memories in my life, they're sitting like this with loved ones cracking up. - Yeah. - That's it, that's like the thing. So when we do that on set and it's me and Dines and we're at work and our families are visiting us at work and we're all cracking up, making something. I'm like, this is like a next level fulfillment. - Are you as funny when it's not work just in life? - I mean, on the last person you should ask that question 'cause I'm not, what Dines, what do you think? He's like, God, no fifth amendment, dude. - I think it's pretty obvious that, yes. I think it's extends into real life. It's not a performative thing. - It depends if you ask. I'll tell you this, I love it more personally. Like if we were at dinner and I was just in a good mood and our kids were there and I was like, I would be getting more joy out of it than the people laughing. And how cool is that, man? You know, making your kids laugh? - Yeah. - Fuck me, dude, making my son laugh. Like getting him with a bit and seeing him become funny at almost three. You know? - It's amazing. - It's psychotic, it's mind-melding. It's better than any, no accomplishment, even should be called an accomplishment than watching your kid tell a joke and have it be funny. It'll be like when he catches his first wave or like I see him do an incredibly congesture for someone. You know, it's like this feeling that's like, superseded, but when you mix comedy in with that because comedy's taken all these different forms in my life over all these years. - We need to first fall in love with comedy. - Tsh, I don't even know, man. It's one of those things like if there was skateboarding or comedy involved in it, from the first moment I can remember ingesting like culture, I needed to know and understand every, and then later it was rap music. You know, if rap was in a movie, you know? Like if a famous rapper was in a movie and they played a rap song in a movie, I'd all of a sudden have to know everything about that movie. - It was always through the reference of movies? - I was a clown. I was a gesture. You asked my parents or man I've been friends since we were like three or four. So like I know my mom, 'cause my mom tells my son, 'cause she tells him your dad was always funny and you know. - Would there be like comedians that you would love that you would imitate? - Yeah, I would do Richard Pryor, Nettie Murphy, later the Sam learned albums. I would like perform the songs for like, you know, that you could tell who's gonna try and be a comedian in like Jewish culture, is the person who performs it all the family shit. You know, 'cause like I would be performant at every family function. It's like there was no stage or like, there shouldn't be a venue, but I feel like a lot of my friends like Andy Sandberg or you know, people I came up with, it's like they were funny and would perform for the family. - You feel it was about getting acceptance in the family? - I think it's a million things. That's why I say my relationship to humor could be like five books. - Yeah. - Because it's like, there's times where it represented something evil to me, there's times it's represented. Like, why do you guys just want me to be funny in my darker phases or you know, like, I'm more than that. You know, and then ultimately I'm like, no, this is like the most golden light that I was given to love. Like, it is the most like, maybe the most important thing that ever was given to me was comedy and laughter because it's like, do when you're like 90, you can't have sex, you can't surf, you can't like, you can't do your hobbies really. You can laugh, Mel Brooks is still funny. I had lunch with Mel Brooks in Norman Lear May, he rest like, you know, all his friends in Norman close to them when he passed, he was 101. God was still cracking me up. - Amazing. - Making jokes, killing a dinner at 101 years old. His mind was blown by YouTube, which mine is too, by the way, but he could think of any comedy act he ever saw in his life and show me it from like 1940. And I love these guys. I love all the old timers. I love getting close to them because you know, like, no one can take being fun. If your mind's still intact, no one can take being funny away from you. And the spirit that brings people, but the truth of it brings me joy. - Why do you think most comedies today are not funny? - I think that's a harsh critique. - What's the last comedy film you saw that made you laugh like crazy? - So again, there's the probably starker reality to it. Because my main mission of this is to make comedy movies, not bring them back because they're not gone, but okay, they're gone. And then, I'm being allowed to make edgy comedy movies in a climate where people are not allowing many people to make mainstream comedy movies. And I'm very grateful for it. And with that responsibility, I will say culturally, It is hard to make jokes in the past, let's say like six or seven years up until the last like one or two years because a joke can be misconstrued and you can get a new live trouble, right? That is obviously true. You can make a joke that offend someone. Why is that different than it's been in the past? Because the consequences were different. I was even thinking about Seth and Evan who made, you know, they made the interview about Kim Jong-un and look at the consequences to their movie. That's a comedy about North Korea and the consequences. What were the consequences? A global hack and like a lot of people lost their jobs and like people weren't crazy and everyone's emails got leaked and you know Michael Lind just released a book that I saw him on Good Morning America today about you know who was greenlit that movie was talking about the biggest mistake of his career was greenlighting that movie because of the fallout that happened, right? So that's the consequences of a comedy. Totally chaplain can you know release the dictator or whatever you know it was edgy and it was like maybe scary or maybe pushing some buttons or any Bruce would push buttons or whatever but I look at that North Korea book the cultural like you know right left whatever all those people going crazy like I'm talking about like even the fact that like North Korea took that movie so seriously that they did something that could have you know was essentially an act of war that could have gotten people like a war started you know based on Seth and Evan Sparks right? So stakes got bigger but actually fuck that the real reason is they aren't making money like they used to so like the real truth of it is is that when I came up with Judd and everybody and Seth our movies made a lot of money you knew your your comments probably going to open to 20 million dollars if like Judd's name was on it or I was in it or Seth was in it or you know and it was like a good ass time for it or you know Ben and Vince and the dudes right above me like Ben Vince Owen that crowd you know Will Ferrell like they're minting money dude but Will couldn't get Anchorman made I didn't know that Will couldn't get Anchorman made but then look what that kicks off right? Right now is the perfect time to be making comedies whether you know look well there's a void yeah and I want to be the guy you come to to make you laugh with films and it's strong maybe we want to make funny movies we want to make responsibly budgeted funny movies because 14 adults have nothing to laugh at as does everybody else and I think comic got shifted to TV comedy be kind of can be kind of dramedy which is kind of what outcome is and so I'm guilty of that too of emotional comedies right? You know the bear becomes what people consider a comedy which I love the bear and Chris is a great friend of ours friend of strong baby amazing dude I wouldn't say it's a laugh out loud comedy just like you know outcome has a lot more seriance elements to it cut off the next movie I'm making is more like an lol the jerk these are morons laugh at them and I miss that I really really miss that and so I'm having up the last making that too. Did you first meet Judd? First met Judd through Allison Jones the casting director I was a young actor like 18 or 19 and you've been in anything yet? Yeah I've been in I heard how it could be is the David O Russell movie which is a funny first movie to be because if you know the history of that movie it's like there was all these videos that leaked of him like kind of great David O screaming at like Lily Tomlin everybody like kind of notoriously outbursting at them and I love David I've seen him a lot since then it was kind of a famous movie where the director kind of yelled at everybody so to be 18 and be the first set that you ever were on I was like yes this is crazy. On the set did you feel like anything was weird or uncomfortable or not at all? I was like this is what directors are like you know I was like this is like any other job on the planet I didn't like love the yelling and stuff but I was like it's kind of crazy that the creativity like there's no like grown up here really now there are a lot work environments are a lot different on sets I think you can run a very respectful environment and make a good movie. Do you think that the outbursts led to something that you got to see on screen that was a value? I would say no in that case you know in that case you're seeing it up close I wouldn't say it added to the creativity. The first thing Phil Stutt said to me was you're not a good artist because you're fucked up you're a good artist in spite of being fucked up and so yeah I think I know artists that self-sabotage is a big part of their process but like Stutt said I think if they were healthy and still doing their process it'd be great because they're great. Yeah. What do you think? I think so. You never see it be like a tool in the toolbox really. No but I think there are some people who don't know how to express themselves very well and it comes out of a frustration of not being able to explain what they want. Where it comes from is like cool that in a buck 50 you'll get you on the bus it's the ultimate behavior that matters right? Yeah. I don't know. When I find about these work environments that's interesting is like it is a creative environment especially in environment like we say on our sets now like we are making jokes about every person who interviews for the job like we are making jokes about things that could very make anyone uncomfortable it is a comedy movie that is part of the nature of the work and I am a writer I'm writing the whole time so I'm writing at the monitors I'm writing while I'm in character I'm writing while I'm out of character and everyone that we work with respects that and they tell us they love it and they're laughing and they keep coming back you know. You get pushed back where like you'll say try this and it's like no that's too far I won't do that. Yeah Keanu. Yeah because I have a microphone so I have a what they call a god mic which is funny for the megalomania of directors but it's called a god mic so I'm behind the monitors and if like let's say Cameron Diaz and Keanu are doing a scene or Marty and I'm pitching lines so I'm writing. Oh. I mean through a speaker earpiece. Yes and you asked their permission first like you know you won't just spring that on you have to actor has to be totally comfortable with it. Now the whole sound stage can hear it so I'll go okay so they oh that's great. He said that now you say back to him say this and he says that and then that okay cool and it's a process we refine in rehearsal so no one's like it's not thrown on anybody. And if the actor doesn't like that then you need to be in character then of course that's not done but everyone seems to love it and then Keanu what happened was sometimes I'm so in love with what he's doing and writing new jokes by the ninth joke he goes Jonah okay okay. Because he's just he's just it's just because he knows I won't stop. I'm having the time in my life like I think something's funny I'm chasing that like a like a hound. There's a long tradition of reading sacred text slowly allowing each word to settle echo and reveal meaning over time. Rather than rushing to conclusions this practice invites reflection listening and attention for centuries this repetition has been used to stay close to wisdom not by studying words as information but by receiving them as something lived and experienced over and over again. This tradition is known as lectiodevina emerging in early monastic life it engages scripture through four gentle movements reading reflection repetition and rest a short passage is read a single phrase is held silence becomes part of the practice creating space for insight to surface naturally. Lectiode 365 brings that ancient rhythm into the present moment designed for modern life it offers brief guided scriptural reflections throughout the day to begin with intention pause at midday and wind down at night. The readings are less about information gathering and more for returning to wisdom again and again letting familiar words meet new moments a modern way to keep biblical wisdom close quietly present steady and alive within everyday life. Lectiode 365 is a free resource find inspiration there now and always learn more at lectio365.com What's something about the movie business that nobody knows? That it is an industry filled with so many so many people who work in it and a lot of amazing people that work really hard at a job that's really hard. I'm not talking about acting or directing I'm talking about if you're like you know a grip or something. It is sometimes 50 or 100 people on a set. Yeah and if you're a grip you may not be getting paid the most and you be working long fucking hours and you have to love movies and care to do it and you're living paycheck to paycheck and at its best it's a beautiful industry that I've seen a lot of people experience great joy and but it is getting harder and harder for a lot of people. to have good livelihoods and stay in California, which is a bummer. - How different are you than the characters you play? - Well, I've played a lot of different people, you know, probably most classic, like Seth from Super Bad, like my comedic character, let's say, like the comedic actor that you love, let's say, you know, there's like the classic Adam Sandler character. My classic comedic character would be like the loud, foul mouthed guy like Wolf of Wall Street or Super Bad or something, right? So I can be loud in foul mouth, but I'm, I don't know, those are like caricatures of a person, I guess, like maybe like comedic traits. So I could have those, I could also be quiet, I could also be like, bajillion different things. I guess the main thing is even as a public figure like how you got to know me, I think we're always changing and are kind of growing and evolving hopefully. So I guess this conversation is what I'm like now. - Yeah. - What are you reading habits? - I listen to tons of books, I'm trying to be better about reading physical books, I think it's good for your brain and I completely abandoned it. So I'm a voracious reader in quotes, but really listener. So I consume a lot of books, but through audio. - What type of books? - People's lives, biographies, books about people. I love books about the entertainment business. I love like the book I'm reading now, which is a physical copy, is Preston's Sturgis biography. I love the lives of people that made the art that I like. You can put me there all day and listen to a book and I'd be happy. - Tell me about your musical taste. - I love music. It's obviously, well, not obviously, but it's very eclectic. From what to what? - Classical, to Trojan Records, to hip hop, to, you know, like I was thinking about today about Trojan Records and that's my favorite label and it's all over the place in the best way, but it's just like, it's like a movie. Like I don't care about what genre a movie is, I care about like whether it hits, it feels like makes you feel something great. - How do you use music in writing or character development? - Everything. I write everything to music. Like I have to have a playlist for the project. So the second thing that happens after the note section when it becomes a real project with Matt and I, I start the playlist. So the outcome playlist is like. - Is the playlist what the movie sounds like or is it about the people? - Well, there's two that become one. There's the master playlist, which is anything like, could be vibe of the movie, any one of the characters with the master outcome playlist. It could be like, this reminds me of the tone. This reminds me of this character. This reminds me of this moment, this joke, this transition. - Would you ever think of them as needle drops in the movie or no? - Then it becomes the ones that make it into the movie. And when I always find more fascinating or not the ones that make it into the movie, but the ones that surround the ones that make it into the movie, I love listening to those after I've done with a movie. - Yeah. - Because those needle drops serve this movie in the story. The other ones served like ethereal things. So I love reminding myself what that, sometimes get a song on there and you go, why the fuck is two live crew on here? You know, like, you're just like, oh, because this moment I get out of the car, you get out bombastically and I want it to feel like, hey, we was supposed to. Like I just want, and you know, like that's just one little moment that I would never have to describe to somebody, but for me, it kept me going in a moment where this is all just in my head. - In dramatic roles, do you have to force yourself not to be funny? - No. I've learned as I've gotten older, if I were to do it now, like let's say someone would approach me and I really wanted to do a dramatic role, I would have more of a sense of humor in between, like while making it. I refuse to allow the experience to be hell at this point in my life. - When you're an actor, do you think of your job as making the director happy or doing what's best for the character you're playing? - I was the epitome of like pissy teenager before I became a director, actor, where like I thought I knew best, all this stuff and it was like I was in my own movie and all this stuff that I've definitely taught me a lot of apologies for. And now your job is really to serve the vision of what the director is doing. And it's the respectful thing to do. And I will never make that mistake again. And you leave the characters on the set, when you leave or do they sometimes work their way into your life? - I didn't know how to do that. If I ever were to get a part in a movie that required deep acting, which I've purposely haven't done especially with my family, because I didn't know how to do that, I would bring it home, like I would not know how to like kind of exit it because I don't have formal training like that. I would get training on how to like leave the character at work, out of respect to the people I live with. (laughing) I would never, so I've never done that to them nor would I. And so if it were to be asked of me, I would be responsible and hire a professional that kind of like gave me tools to sign out. I've heard Emma Stone and told me about like signing out of a character at the end of the day or something like that. - That's a cool idea. - Like she literally, I won't speak for her, but she told me she signs out. - Well, it's a physical ritual and when you ritualize anything, it tends to stick in a different way. It's not just an idea. - It's like the positive actions list being on a board instead of just in your head. Oh, I thought of that. - Yeah. - Yeah. - That's cool. - Tell me something you believe now that you didn't believe when you were young. - I didn't believe that happiness was just like calm and contentness. I believe that he was exciting and at like a fever pitch and at a hundred miles per hour. And as an adult, I believe fun to be at a turtle's pace. - How has your taste changed over the course of your life? - Change is constantly like your evolution of everything. Some things remain permanence, but change is constantly. And I'm less ingestive now. I don't intake as much stuff as I used to as long as the time. I got like 30 minutes, I'm probably on YouTube, once the kids are sweet. I used to have time to watch and listen and read. - For the projects that don't start with you, how do you choose? - I just haven't in a long time. It's been over. Don't look up would be the last one. And how did you choose to do that? - Okay. It's mostly director. You know, I'd say director, it's a director's medium and like Adam McKay, you don't have to say anything else. - Yeah. - Like that one was like Leo and Adam McKay asked me to do it. And I was like, I wanna work with both of those guys. - Yeah, how different is your performance from take to take? - I guess out after two takes. - Really? - Yeah, I do two takes and they are probably 30 minute takes where they go all over the place. - I don't know what you mean 30 minute takes. - Sorry, okay, so except for my first movie, I shoot on digital, which means a film caster ends after like a few minutes, like probably like 10 minutes and they have to like reload it or like 11 or 12 minutes I think. You could shoot for hours on a digital camera because it's a card. - I guess when I say another tape, I mean doing the same card again. I don't mean reloading the camera. - So what I mean by that is this. Now, 'cause of digital, I could do it differently. Let's put it that way. If the movie shot on film, I do it differently. But I give my best two takes or my first two takes and you probably wouldn't use anything after. - Really? - Yeah. Whereas like Brad takes like 10 takes to like get two good stuff from what I remember and like famously. - In the two takes, you said they're long takes. I don't know what that means. - So then when it goes to digital, it becomes a different thing, meaning that I improvise so much and change the thing. So what I do is like on a digital take 'cause it can last forever, I'll do two takes that could be like 40 minutes long because I'll restart myself, I'll try different lines. I'll go off in a different direction and then take it back. - You consider that all part of the first take. - Because it still goes from the beginning, middle and end of the scene. - I see. - So when I say that, I was like, I don't care if you change my words around. Here's what, how it starts. Here's what happens in the middle. Here's the events of the scene and here's the end. So in within that beginning, middle and end, it's probably 240 minute takes and then we're off of me. Instead of like Keanu would do like very exacting takes of unless I was shouting you jokes out out of, that would be the exact duration of the page count essentially. And he would do product, you know, standard is like five, six takes, you know? But I do mostly like really couple takes. - A couple of takes, but what you're talking about is very different than anyone I've heard talk about performances. - And then if you asked people who work with me, they would tell you I have an orthodox way of doing it that is heavily improvisational and what they would call improvisational. I might have written 40 of those alts. So they're not improvisational to me because I came in with them. I just didn't implement them in the screenplay because they would make the page count go crazy then the studio would call you and say, why do you have 10 extra pages today? That's kind of more like pragmatic stuff, right? - Yeah. - But like, yeah, I love that about it. And I love, to me, that's why the current brothers are like, "Get the fuck outta here." (laughs) They're like, "We're better writers than you." Stop trying to like, say, "I'm different, shit." And I'm like, "Oh, sorry, I just, this is what I do." You know, like, I don't think it's better than I'm just saying it in my process, yeah. - Of course. If it was gonna be more takes, would it typically come from you requesting more or would it come from the director saying, "Please do it again." As an actor? - Yeah. - Either or. I usually do my two takes, and I probably don't ask for anything else. Like, I honestly can't wait to do it again, because it's been so long, it's been five years. And I'm a different, it's a different person. We all are fucked from five years, you know? So I'm like, "Man, I can't wait to see what it's like, what they asked for." - Tell me about shooting in 16 millimeter film. - It was awesome for that film. My big like film nerd, like A24, like cinnamon nerd kind of thing, is like, I don't like that people just love like film stocks or whatever. It's like, does it serve the movie? For mid '90s, we wanted it to feel like you found an older movie. So Super 16 was like the best format that we, after testing a lot, that felt like a mix of a skate video and an old movie. And the client of Western civilization was shot on that, which was like a huge visual reference for that movie. So like that worked great for mid '90s, but would be terrible for outcome. But I loved it. I loved everything about mid '90s was like, there's nothing like your first time. Like I ran into Ethan Cohen the night before I started shooting mid '90s at a restaurant. - Yeah. - And I said, I'm gonna direct my first movie, it was after I worked with him, like if you give me any advice, he goes, "Let me eat, Maginner, and I'll think of something good to tell you." And he comes over at the end and he says, I was so nervous when we were making blood simple, I wish I could have enjoyed it more, you know? He's just trying to enjoy every day. And then I saw him after and he was like, well, and I was like, no, too stressed. (laughing) But now I look back on it and I'm like, "Oh, good advice." Best rose colored glasses. Yeah, but the advice is impossible. - Yeah. - Because the same reason that gets you the position of directing a movie should make you unable to enjoy it as much as you should. - I'm just like, I'm just like, "You always know when something is funny." - Yes, I know when I find something funny. I'm surprised, in the process of making movies, you are constantly surprised when you test, you know, we test our movies a lot, Matt and I. So like a joke you've quoted made wrap sweatshirts out of the joke, quoting the joke, bombs at the test screen. And then you cut it out. (laughing) You think it's gonna be like the thing that everyone's quoting, like you put it, when I say you make a wrap sweatshirt, with like a quote of that joke. You know the first test screening at Burbank AMC, they tell you, "It wasn't that fucking funny." - Tell me about test screenings in general. - Am I right? - They're amazing, test screenings are incredible. - How soon do you do it in the process? - So again, I'm very unorthodox. I test early, early and often. So usually I test five weeks in through a director's cut, which is in the film's infancy. You know, that's the infancy of a film's post, right? So you have 10 weeks to do a director's cut for the DGA, but then you have months after with the studio, friends and family, getting notes or whatever. But legally 10 weeks you have your director's cut. So five weeks into my director's cut, I test in front of a test screening to get ahead of what my headline problems are. And to really get ahead of what the audience might not understand and not to change it based on necessarily, they may not like something that I may like and I have to then fight for how that can live as opposed to taking it out. So I love that process. I love it. And that's been around since Charlie Chaplin, - What are some of the comments you get? - For comedy, it's the best. It's like off with their heads. It's like the joke gets a laugh or it doesn't. And if you really want to be bullish, you're like, "I know this is funny. There's a reason I'm me and the reason I get to make comedies." Well, you know what? You haven't set it up properly. You haven't set the table for them to laugh. So it's almost always in setup. Yes. And so like, I'm obsessed. It's all big puzzle. It's so fun. I'll test them. It'll be five weeks in getting my nuts kicked in and my teeth kicked in. You want to kill yourself. You're like, "You're like, this is, I'm a failure. I've ruined it." And then you get one day in like bed, like one night where I'm like a total bitch to be around. And then the next day, like everyone is strong maybe comes into the office and we're like, what was good? How do we support what's good and how do we build on what's good? And it's such, you know, this is our like third movie, I'm directed at Strong Baby Stuts upcoming now, Cut Off, but it's like, it is so the process is the reward. Being in the bunker with everyone when you're like, you need to like help something get better. And then to really take that something not working, not as a failure, but that the test screening is a gift, it tells you exactly what needs the love. - Yeah, it's an opportunity to see what's not clear. It's like crowdsourcing an answer. - Yes, 'cause I can play a movie to spike and mic in a whole industry crowd and they get a lot more than someone who, you know, is not from LA or New York or works in entertainment, you know? And it's an amazing tool to get an audience's reaction to things. - When something is funny to you, do you always know why? - I could articulate to you why I found it funny. I think that's a gift I have is to say why I find something funny. But then sometimes things are just so funny about life, like, you know, having a kid teaches you, like, they do something that's so unexplainable, that's hilarious. And then you'd be a fool to try and even waste your time describing it I often will because I like the analytics of comedy. But like, you can intellectualize this stuff all day but my two year old's funnier than you are. - He is. - I bet. - Not you, but he's like, you know, he's more than any of us in any given time, you know? - Of course. And he's probably not trying. - Now he's starting to try, which is even more incredible because I'm watching him like a sponge learning when to get out on a joke, when to, you know, like he's almost three, he's about to be three and so he can like, he can tell, like I'll say, like you said it once, get out of there. You know the famous Albert Brook story? - No. - With Rob Reiner, me, he rest in peace, where Rob told me this story that Albert killed so hard at a party one time in the 70s. They were all a social event party. And Albert just killed from the jump. I was just killing like socially, just murdering. And he's like, he leaves, like right away. He's like, he leaves. And then the phone rings and they're like someone for Rob, like Rob, it's for you. And it was Albert. He's like, I left my keys up there. You got to bring them out to me. And he's like, he's like, come back and get him. He's like, I just killed so hard. I had to get the fuck out of there. There's no way I'm going back in there. - That's so funny. This is a sign-filled episode about that. - No way. - Leaving behind, yeah. - Well, it's not overstaying your welcome. There's a lot to be said for it. - How is LA now different than the LA you grew up in? - Night and day. - How? - Well, night and day. Not night and day. Let's say, dusk to afternoon. It's like, it's like the coolest parts about it was that I could go skate downtown or see a punk show or something and then sneak into the main on the moon premiere, which I did on my 16th birthday. And so like, where I met Rodney. - Wow. - I met Rodney, which is one of my favorite stories ever. I could tell it was a side, which is, 'cause we were making the Rodney biopic. We were producing it. We had developed it with Terrence Winner, who wrote "Wolf Wall Street" at Strong Baby. And we couldn't end up figuring it out. And I wanted to play Rodney and we were producing it. - That'd be amazing. - I'd still love to play Rodney, honestly. That's kind of something on my bucket list. So, I'm 16 years old. I sneak into the main on the moon for you and my buddy, Mark. And we're in the back trying to wait for someone to open an exit door so we can go in to the back. And a limo pulls up and it's Rodney in a suit with no shoes or socks on. And his wife, who's incredible. And a six pack of Mickey's bombers. And I'm like, Rodney, you're my favorite man. Like, you're the king, you're the fucking king. And he's like, oh, wait, it was my birthday. And so he was like, what are you doing? Like, we're trying to sneak in. He's like, I'll sneak you guys in. And then he sneaks us in. He gives us both of us one of his Mickey's grenades. And he sneaks us into the main on the moon for me. Incredible. The coolest fucking thing ever, man. Like, I'll never, obviously, never forget it. But I have a danger fields, a ash tray in my office from the comedy club. With the drawing. Yeah. That's so great. With the cartoon Rodney. What are your favorite documentaries? God, how much time do you have? It's pretty much all I mean, it's like-- You loved Docks. Just everything. Yeah. I mean, I love the movie Dig. I think Dig is stuck with me a long time. That movie really got me. Like, just somehow how that story is told. And the band, the one band being like credible, but not famous and the other being famous, but not as credible. It's just like this Shakespearean parable that's told through these characters that are-- and Anton's just such an interesting character from Brian Jones town massacre. With the most of them the greatest, like, main characters of all time. The guy who will never be as fucking up and harmful to himself, but will never be as great as him. It's like, oh, you shit. That movie company deep. She made another great movie on the call we live in public, which we try to develop it strong, maybe, into a narrative feature, which is incredible movie you should watch. But all day, I mean, the decline of Western civilization, dogs are huge for me. I love your dog about Shane Rela. I love that. I've seen that. Any dog about like the Geffen dog, any dog about the like business or art or help art or business is made and or processed dogs, you know, I just, I just fucking, I eat it up, man. I eat it up. Tell me about watching movies over and over again. If a movie is amazing, I don't get sick of it. What do you get from the repeats? I try and learn how it was made and how decisions were made. I won't name the movie, but a movie that could or is going to win best, or you know, one of the ones for best picture this year, great movie. On cut off, we have to rethink our beginning and we're rethinking it now into edit. And I watched this movie for the first time I hadn't seen it, this movie, and I watched the beginning and I texted my editor because you're the same sound mixer as this movie. And I said, did you see this movie? And she goes, yeah. So I guarantee you, people didn't understand, understand it and they had to redo this opening and she texted the sound engineer and he assured me I was right. So I like how things are made for problem solving for setting the table for the audience, whether it be for characters or the story or the tone. There was some little preamble that was additionally made to help set the table for the audience to immediately lock into the movie. And I saw it and before I was even done, I texted my editor, guarantee you they did this and I was right. So for me, it's just like a deeper understanding of how movies are made, how good movies are made, how bad movies are made, and all the decisions and fixes it takes to get there. Because now that I'm realizing this is my fourth movie, it's not about decisions, it's about fixing and creating new decisions to support the decisions that worked and not beating yourself up about the decisions that didn't work. "Tetra Grammatine" is a podcast. "Tetra Grammatine" is a website. "Tetra Grammatine" is a whole world of knowledge. What may fall within the sphere of "Tetra Grammatine"? Counter-culture? "Tetra Grammatine"? "Zakrid Geometry"? "Tetra Grammatine"? "The Avant Garde" "Tetra Grammatine"? "Generative Art" "Tetra Grammatine"? "The Tarot" "Tetra Grammatine"? "Out of Print Music" "Tetra Grammatine"? "Biodynamic" "Tetra Grammatine"? "Graphic Design" "Tetra Grammatine"? "Mithology" "And Magic" "Tetra Grammatine"? "Obscure Film" "Tetra Grammatine"? "Beach Culture" "Tetra Grammatine"? "Eso-Taric Lectures" "Tetra Grammatine"? "Off the Grid Living" "Tetra Grammatine"? "Alt Spirituality" "Tetra Grammatine"? 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