JON FAVREAU Talks Obama, Bin Laden, ICE

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If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tramphya, proper training is required. Tramphya is a prescription medicine used to treat with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tramphya Radio. Were you in the situation room? That was the moment where he got love from everyone. Oh, with the Bin Laden operation? You were in the situation room? No. I was not right into that. What a loser. Loser. No, because- What a loser. Were you outside trying to listen in? No, because I didn't know what happened until I got the draft remarks of what he was going to say. They didn't tell you? Ben. Oh, you were a f***ing loser, dude. Well, I didn't do any of the foreign- Oh, my God. I wasn't the foreign policy national security speechwriter guy. That sucks. Yeah. Can you imagine how sick it was? Hillary Clinton saying, this is my plan. I'm calling all the shots here. Shut up, Obama. ♪ Adam Friedland Show, oh my, Adam Friedland Show, oh my, Adam Friedland Show on ITV ♪ Hello and welcome back to the Adam Friedland Show. It's Adam Friedland, guys. First off, going back on the road, this weekend they added a sixth show, Seattle, Washington. It's at, what's it called, Emerald City Comedy Club. Thursday night, there's one extra show. Everything else is sold out. Also, folks, I'll be in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania next month at Helium Comedy Club. Get tickets. While you still can, they're going to sell out quick. And in May, I'll be in Los Angeles, California for the Netflix Is A Joke Fest at the Region Theater. Pre-sale begins tomorrow, or today, if you're watching on the general feed, right? Tomorrow at noon? Tomorrow at noon. Today at noon. No, pre-sale, pre-sale. In general, when would this be? Today. Say the date, maybe the 21st. Pre-sale begins at the 21st of tomorrow, the 21st of January, the month right now, at noon. So that was probably earlier today. And the code is Adam. Pacific Time. Pacific Time. Noon Pacific Time. The code is Adam Pacific Time. The code is Adam Pacific Time, and it was already today at noon Pacific Time. Also, I'd like to thank our members here on YouTube.com. You guys support the show. If you'd like to support us, you can subscribe. You can select Join at the top of your page. And if you join at the second or third tiers, you can get your name in the credits of this fine program. There's also a link in the description of the video below. And there's also a link to a Patreon if you prefer to use Patreon. Finally, there's merch available at adamfreeland.show. Guys, I'm not only all about money, okay? My guest this week is American political podcaster and speechwriter Jon Favreau. Favreau is known, of course, as the host of the political podcast Pod Save America. I never miss an episode. And he was previously employed as the senior speechwriter for Barack Obama, the Obama administration, the White House. What the hell have we done with our lives, huh? Funnily enough, this is not the first time our paths have crossed. What are you going to say? No, come on. What? Read it. Read it. In 2013, an 18-year-old Adam Friedland dropped off a packet of speeches at the front desk of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, the reception. Getting my start writing speeches for the President of the United States seemed like a pretty good first job. Now, of course, I was not hired, but I'd like to share a snippet from one of the speeches that I handed over that day to imagine what life may be like had today's guest taken a chance on me. Hello, I'm President-- Hello, let me-- Hello, I'm President Barack Obama, and I'm here to talk to you today about a seriously bad problem that's destroying the core of this nation, and eating away at what makes us great. America is suffering from an epidemic, an epidemic of girls who are cheating on good boyfriends. Good guys who like movies and books more than go to the club. Guys who want to stay in and be romantic instead of wearing revealing clothes. Instead of wearing revealing clothing. Guys who think makeup is the same as lying and prefer a natural look. Guys who hate condoms because the feeling of them is weird. These are good men, honest men who got good grades and know about music, and girls need to stop cheating on them immediately. This is a presidential order. Thanks. And can I just say, being the president is the best job I've ever had. Please enjoy my interview with Jon Favreau, everyone. Give it up for him. That was one of the best ones. Ladies and gentlemen, host of Pod Save America, former head speechwriter for the Obama White House, Jon Favreau, everyone. God damn it, guys. Joji, you can't pull, focus, and clap? Pretty good. How is it? Well, you have the same name as that guy? Yeah. That's gotta suck. You know what? It's been-- Are you boys with him? It's been, yeah. I'm not boys with him, but I know him. You gotta know him. I had been in the White House. I had been in the White House for two years, and one of our staff, one of my colleagues came up to me, was like, hey, I noticed at the end of Iron Man 2, like, did you work on that movie? And I was like, did I work on that movie? I'm like, you have been with me every day, every hour for the last two years. You think I had time to work on Iron Man 2? I'm like, no, that wasn't me. That's the other Jon Favreau. You're making Obama look bad. Well, it wasn't him. I'm not saying it was Barack Obama. Of course, Barack Obama wouldn't know this. It was not Barack Obama. He knew who I was. But why would he hire? That person shouldn't be allowed to drive. They would-- why would they? You know, well, actually, I had to change my name, because there was a guy in show business. Yeah. Oh. Already, with my name. Now you're the most famous. Yeah. There couldn't be a second Malcolm X, you know. I first noticed it when he was in Rudy. Malcolm X? No, Malcolm X was in Rudy. You know, he was a redhead. No, Jon Favreau was in Rudy. Oh, Jon Favreau. And I remember seeing the credits, and I was like-- I was a kid. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And you're like, what the is going on? that guy. What the-- no, but I mean, you were in the White House, and you're still number two, you think? Or you're number one? I mean, deep down, you're number one. He's done a lot of great stuff. Yeah, but-- Big stuff. If you run-- It's like big-- he wasn't just-- he was like an actor. Now he's like a big director. If you run for president, you could be the number one Favreau, you think? If you win president-- That's what I'd have to do. Yeah. That's what I'd have to do. Trudeau was the prime minister, and he was the number two Justin in Canada. How pathetic is that? That's right. Yeah, Bieber-- he's still-- Bieber's bigger still. Yeah. And now he's with Katy Perry, so that's all. Trudeau? Yeah. What? I miss everything. He is? That's what I've-- that's what I've seen. Yeah, do you ever feel like a plastic bag? Do you remember where you were the first time you heard that? Yeah, my friend actually, he went to college with a guy named Austin Powers. That's-- that's-- - That's tough. - How brutal is that? - That's really tough. - Can you imagine the first movie comes out, he's like, okay, it's six months of this, yeah, baby, yeah, stuff. He goes to the bank and people are like, do I make you horny? His life has been hell. - For the rest of his life. - Then there's a second one, he's like, oh, there's a sequel, he's like, well, sequels are always bad. He's like, this is the end of this nightmare. His name is Borat. Can you imagine being named Austin Powers? - Boy, oh my god, it would drive me insane. Yeah, if you're, yeah, my name is Shrek. - Doesn't J.D. Vance have a stage name? - Isn't J.D. Vance the stage name? - It's, I mean that, yeah, is the stage name. - Right. Well, he's changed his name. - Three times. - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - I don't even know what the original-- - You can't have a president change the name three times. - Who knows anymore? - Or was he a wife guy? Was he like, I'm taking her name? - No, it was not that. - No. - No, he wasn't doing that. - He's definitely not a wife guy. - Yeah, yeah, 'cause we couldn't vote for that either. - I feel like if I read "Hillbilly Elegy," I would know what the name was, but that's only a book that I pretended to have read. - What was his last name, Knievel? You pretended to read "Hillbilly Elegy"? - Not pretended, it was like you buy it, and I'm like, I meant to read it. - To get chicks? What are you saying? - To get chicks. It was like you're in politics. I'm like, everyone's talking about this book. I should probably read this book. - Yeah. - And you're like, read the first chapter, and then you lose time. - It was every lib parent. They were like, actually. - This is why we lost. - Yeah, and now this guy. - Now we're gonna figure it out. - Yeah, Peter. - And we did. - Peter Thiel, very smart. Yeah, okay, J.D. Vance, come on the show, but you can never be the president if you change. Go back to your original name, just David Hitler. We'll cut that, he's a friend. Okay, so wait, I looked at, I've been studying you. I know everything now. - Uh-oh. - You had hot parents. - I still do, they're still very much alive. - They still look good? - Yeah, they're still hot, they're still looking good. - Hot parent kid is a thing. - Yeah, yeah. They stayed together? - Yeah. - Okay, then that's good. They were like too hot to be married. - No, they're just hot enough to be together, and they live out in California with me now. - Your dad's kind of-- - Big guy. - Big guy, jacked. - Big guy. - Yeah, yeah. Did it make you wanna be stronger than him? - No, not really. - Do you think you could beat your dad up now? - No, for sure. - Still, your dad could beat you up? - He's just, he's 6'2", so he's got a few inches on me. - You're making a bottle like that. You're making a bottle like that. You can't hire-- - I don't wanna beat up my dad, you know? - So he had a man be pan be son? - Yeah, for sure. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - I don't know how-- - But he was never disappointed, which was nice. - Yeah, but deep down. - Deep down. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. My dad knows how to fix a car. - Oh yeah, I think mine does. - Do you, we don't. - I don't know how to fix a car. We know how to write speeches, phenomenal speeches. So he's like, my boy's a speech boy? My boy's, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He's like, he wanted you to play football, and you're like, I gotta write. Never even pushed me for that. Did you grow up watching game tape of speeches? No. No? No. I didn't grow up in a, like, my parents liked to talk politics. They weren't, I wouldn't say they were political, but they liked to talk politics. And I remember, I do remember, like, watching the 92 presidential debates with my dad. That was, like, my, one of my earliest political memories. Yeah. I remember my parents being so excited, because he was a boomer. Yeah. And the song was Fleetwood Mac. Yeah. That was a big. They were like, it's one of us. And I remember, actually, I remember the 88 campaign, because Mike Dukakis. The helmet. The Democratic nominee. And my mother's Greek, and her main name is Demarcus. Uh-huh. And. And he was from Lowell, and my mother's from, like, the town, like, Woburn, which is right near Lowell in Massachusetts. And so, like, the fact that he was running for president was, like, the biggest deal ever. Really? Oh, yeah. A Greek. Yeah. Why would the Democrats run a Greek? What are they going to run? From Massachusetts. They're going to run Staub next? What are they doing? Wait. Yeah. It's so funny that a picture of a helmet. I mean, he really did look like a bitch ass in that picture. Yeah. But that. Well, he's short, too. That's the kind of thing that can sway an election. It feels like, nowadays, like, we forget. We forgot Trump got shot two days later. Yeah. And then Joe Biden dropped out two days later. Yeah. Those were the good days. That was a wild. Those were the good. Those are crazy summer. Yeah. It sucks that Biden did, like, his first funny thing before he dropped out. Which was? He's like, when he's like, he was with Zelensky. And he was like, ladies and gentlemen, President Putin. It was like he was, like, doing the music guest on SNL. Ladies and gentlemen, President Putin. I remember that press conference. That was a rough one. Who was forcing him to do that? The wife? No, him. No, it was the wife. I think she was encouraging. Jill was like, go out there. I think they were like, you do you. Like, we're going to be with you no matter what you want to do. And it was like, you want some people when you're President of the United States around you who will tell you difficult things that you don't want to hear. I thought you were going to say, laugh at all your jokes. Did Obama ever tell just a shit joke? And you fake laughed? You definitely did. Probably. Yeah, yeah. It's the President. Yeah, I would definitely. I am an easy laugh anyway, but yeah, I'm sure I fake laughed at some of his jokes. And you're like, come on, Mr. President. That's not good. That's sexist. You can't say that about women. I shouldn't have shown you Entourage. Do you remember your boss? He said that his favorite show was Entourage. Did he say that? Yeah, it's so sick. So sick. That's so us. It was. That's so us. That is. That's so us, dude. I mean, you were 28 years old in the West Wing of the White House. You watched the show before? I did. I was in college, so I watched it then. So you think you're Sam? Yeah. But you want to be Josh. Do I? Anti-Semite. He's an anti-Semite. That's what it is. You want to be Toby, the coolest guy on the show. Was there a Toby in the squad with you guys? I think Toby was communications director. Yeah, but he was a little dark. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Like, all the characters were just amalgam of people in the White House. So it's like, Toby was like David Axelrod, little Toby, you know? Yeah. But also like the communications director. I guess Pfeiffer could have been a little Toby. So you were like a Donna, you're saying? I was a Donna. You were a Donna. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Did you have, you were the boss of people older than you at 28? Let's see. Yeah. Yeah. Couple. We were pretty young, though, as a group, the speechwriters. Really? Yeah. So I think most of them were my age or younger, but like Ben Rhodes is a couple years older than me. No one's too old, too much older than me. Was there any Harvard Lampoon guys? No, we didn't have any Harvard Lampoon guys. That's actually a serious question that I said as a joke, but it actually is plausible. Yeah. They're everywhere. They are. Yeah. You always run into a fucking Harvard Lampoon guy somewhere. Yeah. Do comics get hired for, as speechwriters? I mean, John Lovett, he was, I guess he was, he did a little comedy before. John Lovett. John Lovett. My co-founder, co-host. We, what is, you guys bonded over having a number? Another guy with your names? No, because I didn't really like, I don't know, it took us a while to put together the John Lovett, John Lovett's thing. Because he didn't, because it's not like my name where it's spelled the exact same. Like. What are you guys, stupid? It's right there. John Lovett, haven't you seen Rat Race? I have seen Rat Race. Where were you doing your homework? But yeah, no, so Lovett does comedy. He was our funny guy. He was our resident funny speechwriter. That's insulting, actually. You guys had real jobs. And now you're podcasting and doing comedy? Yeah. It's, it's, come on. It's pretty, it's a sweet game. When I see NBA players, NBA players doing podcasts, I'm like, I'm doing this because I'm not in the NBA. Just please, you don't want no part of this. This is a hell. It's a lot easier than working in the White House, what I do now. Yeah, yeah, you're lazy and rich. Just get to, just get to talk about politics. You're, you went to Holy Cross. Mm-hmm. You and Bill Simmons, roommates. Okay. Ah, no. You were in a love triangle with Simmons. Yeah, and Clarence Thomas. Yeah. Do you think Simmons was power ranking girls at college? You'll have to ask him. Zuckerberg was, I think. That's the, yeah, that was the, the, the movie. That's how the whole thing started. That's, yeah. He was doing power ranking? Yeah. I wonder if Zuck and Simmons ever linked up. It's like hot or not, and then like 15 years later, genocide. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Going back to like comics writing for politicians. You know how like when our government lets BB just do open mic night to be mean to the president? Mm-hmm. We just let him go to the, to the, the government to give a speech and be like, Obama's a bitch. Because the Republicans invited him. We didn't, Obama didn't even invite him. Yeah, but you're the president. You gotta be like, I'll kill you if you. He could have tried that. He had a line where I'm like, it's got to be, it's Jerry. Jerry's, Jerry's. He's in the writer's room, for sure. When he was like, they say gays for Gaza. What about, that's like saying chickens for KFC. That's got to be a Jerry. That has to be a Jerry. Do you know, can you confirm or deny that Jerry Seinfeld's writing for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu? I can, I can do neither. Can you call Jerry Seinfeld and ask him? I don't know Jerry Seinfeld. You know Jerry Seinfeld. No. You're a college valedictorian. Mm-hmm. Right? And then you go into the KFC. You were a speechwriter. You were probably the youngest person in the room a lot of the time. But you were like kind of a fly on the wall for like history. So like, what was it like, like that arrival of Barack Obama? Yeah, so I was, I was at the D. DNC in Boston and I was a junior speechwriter at that point in the Kerry campaign. I was backstage and all the speakers would like send their speeches to the Kerry campaign team and so I was supposed to like make sure that all the speeches were on message for the Kerry campaign. Yeah. And then my boss, the head speechwriter at the time, now Congressman Josh Gottheimer from New Jersey, he called me, he was on the road with Kerry and he was like, "Hey, there is a line in Barack Obama's speech who's giving the keynote that John Kerry wants to use in his speech." And I was like, "Alright." And he's like, "Well, they both can't use the same line." He stole his bit? So he was like, I'm like, "What are you telling me for?" He's like, "You have to get the line out of Obama's speech." I was like, "What?" So I have to go down the hall to where Obama's practicing the speech for the first time on teleprompter and-- Go into the practice. How did he do that? How did he-- How's Barack Obama like, "I'm about to kill it." Yeah, like what-- Well, he had never-- Does he in a mirror? He had never read off a prompter before. So he had to learn to use a teleprompter because he had never like given a prepared speech. He's like a state senator, you know? So he was an idiot too. He was an idiot too. So that entire White House are idiots. Yeah. For sure. For sure. And so he's practicing and I have to go in, I'm like 21 at the time, 22. And-- And hot. You were a piece of ass at the time. So hot. I was so hot. I've been looking at pigs. Shaved head? Buzz cut? Like 10 pounds heavier, buzz cut. Kind of yoked? Yeah. Trying to beat your dad up? Trying to beat my dad up. This summer break? I'm just kidding. When I'm not in the campaign, I'm just trying to get Jack to beat my dad up. So then I tell him about the line and he's so mad. Obama? Yeah. He like came up to like, he's like this close to me. And he's like looking down. And I think I like blacked out for a few seconds. But at that point, this very nice man, David Axelrod, comes up to me and he was like, hey son, let's walk outside and we'll rewrite the line together. And so we, Ax and I, that's my first introduction to him, we go outside, we rewrite the line. And-- Do you remember the line? Yeah. It's the end of the red state, blue state riff where he says like there are no red states, there are no blue states. He stole red state, blue state? I wanted to say there are the United States, all of us pledging allegiance to the red, white, and blue. Oh, really? And Kerry wanted red, white, and blue. And so instead, Obama changed it to like all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes. I think we did. So anyway-- To the green and yellow of Hezbollah. Yeah. What are you saying? Yeah. Hezbollah, green, and yellow. That was the alt. That was the alt. Obama. And I figured like that was it. That was the last time that I would see Obama again. Yeah. And Kerry lost, and Obama won the Senate. Robert Gibbs, who was his communications director, had been my boss when I was a press assistant on the Kerry campaign, was like, hey, he needs a speechwriter. Would you be interested? Now that he's in the Senate, would you be interested in just like sitting down with him? And I was like, why does he need a speechwriter? He's like, that's what he thinks. He doesn't want a speechwriter either. He thinks he can-- The guy he was mean to? Yeah. He's like, he doesn't-- He's like, get that from Kerry. Well, so he didn't know it was me. Oh, no. And he didn't remember me. So I sat down with him. Yeah. And then his first week in the Senate, we have breakfast, and we do the job interview. He was so nice. Great job interview. He was like, where'd you grow up? What's life like? What's your theory of speechwriting? Why do you like writing? What did you say, theory of speechwriting? You had to bullshit that. I was like, I don't have a theory of speechwriting. Yeah, yeah. But I talked about his convention speech in 2004 and why I loved it. And then he was like, all right, well, I don't think I need a speechwriter, but Gibbs tells me I do, and you seem nice enough. So let's give this a whirl. Whoa. And then like a year later, we're sitting around reminiscing about the 2004 convention, and Obama's like, remember that little shit who tried to take from the Kerry campaign or tried to get-- and I was like, that was me. He's like, I would have never hired you. And he started laughing. He knew it was you. At that point, he did. Oh, he was doing a bit. No, no, no, no. He found out at that moment, like a year later. Have you told this story before? I think so. I can't remember. This is great stuff. I can't remember. I can't remember. We got to tell Sorkin. We got to get Sorkin to all of this. We should tell Sorkin. Yeah. Oh, my god. Yeah. So-- For the reboot. How mean was he to you? When he found out he was-- no, he was laughing. He just couldn't believe it. Now he loves it. No, I mean the first time. You were like-- He was just like-- And you were like, whatever, you fucking state senator. Well, you're a bitch, dude. Yeah, right. You're going nowhere. I'm working for the next president, John Kerry. Yeah, yeah. Did you-- OK, here's a serious question, actually, I had floating in my head. And I don't know if you've been asked this before. Did you guys kind of-- to what extent was Will Ferrell to blame? Why? Because of his George Bush impression? Yeah, the funniest guy in the world was playing like a war criminal. I mean, I think it's actually like-- there's something-- I'm not saying it's the reason John Kerry lost. Right. You know, it was because of what he did on the damn Swift boat. OK? The Swift boat. The damn Swift boat. And that's what Obama put in his speech? He's like, John Kerry, I heard he was on the Swift boat. Yeah, that's right. Sorry. We did do a Kerry section. Don't tell him I did an impression. I won't. I promise I won't. I promise. Bush didn't get really unpopular until '05, '06, 2005, 2006, when Iraq went really south. Yeah, yeah. What happened in that? What happened over there? Yeah, nothing good. Nothing good. But we've learned our lesson, so that's important. So you-- you-- so then you-- Yeah. So then you were working in his Senate office? Yeah. So then I was working in the Senate office. And part of the reason I took that job is, like, my parents wanted me to go to law school. You know, they're like, all right, you're not making-- you didn't make any money on the Kerry campaign. And we're not supporting you forever. Like, you could go-- go to law school. He didn't shut the fuck up. Yeah, yeah. It's the-- he's running for pres-- like, they-- But I was like, well, I'll go work for Barack Obama in the Senate office because he's-- he just got there. He's obviously not going to run for president in 2008. And so I'll just do a year there. And then once the '08 campaign starts, I'll go to law school, and I'll be done with politics for a little while. So you lied to your parents. So I lied to my parents. That was a good lie. Yeah. Yeah. This guy's a total lightweight. It was one speech. And then that was that. Really? And then he decided to run. And then you dropped "Yes, We Can." That's you? "Yes, We Can" was in the-- I mean, it's-- His 2004 Senate race is a-- it was a tagline in one of his ads. And then I and the other speechwriters brought it back for the New Hampshire-- speech, the night of the New Hampshire primary in '07. Oh, so you copied "Yes, We Can" from Obama. Yeah, just lifted it from-- Who copied it from the farm laborers of-- Yes, from Cesar Chavez. Is there like a-- so like in comedy, if you steal a bit, it's like a bad thing? Mm-hmm. Like, is there the concept of that in speech writing? No. Yeah. No. You just steal liberally. When you-- so like when you like were developing a skill in your job, like, did you watch game tape of people-- like previous speeches? I did a little bit of that. I read bold speeches. But I think the key-- I think what a lot of politicians do now, which is a mistake, is like they try to copy like the style of a politician in the past who gives a speech. And then it sounds phony because it's like-- like for a while you had politicians trying to like all copy John F. Kennedy. And now you get that with Obama, right? Yeah, yeah. So it's like-- Gavin was trying Obama a little bit there. Who? Gavin Newsom. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, yeah. Josh Shapiro sounds a little Barack Obama sometimes. Let me be clear. Yeah. There's a little-- it's that generation of politicians that just came of age. Beto O'Rourke was kind of ripping it up. Beto was a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I did a little bit of that, but mostly I just got to know Obama. Yeah. Like he also-- he had written, by the time he ran for president, two books. I helped him edit the second book, Audacity of Hope, so he would like-- he wrote that in the Senate office. And so he would come in in the morning. He had been up till like 3:00 AM the night before writing. Partying. He'd give-- partying. Yeah. Give this long chapter. And then I would like-- so it's like I became-- like I was in his head at that point. Yeah. Like I knew how he thought. I knew how he-- The rhythm. Yeah. So that's-- So Obama invented that shit? Invented what? Like the Obama-- I mean, that was him. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was central casting. It was-- I thought it was-- I thought it was the Illuminati. No? Yeah. I mean, that's-- I mean, so then you had to like learn the cadence and kind of the rhythm of an Obama speech. Yes. Yeah. And then I would sort of travel with him and make sure that I'd go to a lot of his speeches. I'd listen to all of his interviews. I would just-- and then I would just spend time with him. Like every time we were about to give a speech, I would just sit down and say like, what do you want to say? And we would like chat for an hour. Yeah. About life? About life. About politics. But-- Do you guys ever watch a movie together? I don't think we've watched-- maybe. I don't think so. Really? No. I didn't really have a lot of time for movies. Yeah. But one day, like let's kind of just-- let's watch a movie. I did it with these boys. We did at one point start-- I like have never seen any of the classics movies. Really? And like someone-- they were talking about it on the plane once and he was like, you've never seen Chinatown? You've never seen-- and then he's like, don't come into work Monday unless you've like seen some of these classic movies. Like I'm ordering you to see some of these movies. Yeah. Sure. That's your commander in chief. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. I went home and I watched Chinatown. Good movies? It was fine. Dude, it's so sick. Your life is sick. It was. And you were hot the whole time? I've been looking at pigs you gotta go okay. Can I tell you guys? I'm gonna be a little Jewish mother here. Mm-hmm, but with good taste not bad taste sure I got a banana Republican tell you buy me a shirt and like it you should go back to the buzz cut you think so aviators Messenger bag buzz buzz cut aviators. This is way worse, and you got your hair still I do have my hair So where you went to Turkey well? You went with Eric Adams to Turkey. I did yeah, the Istanbul, New York Yeah, no Obama said to me. We were once he was like he gave you stopped him. He was like um I'm just saying he's like you're You're like a good-looking guy with your hair. I think you could I think you could grow it out I don't think you listen to him because I don't think you need to be we got to call Obama right now I don't know you're it was easy That was why I did it because I was so busy and I had never had time to do anything so I like buzzed my hair myself um let's go back to Speech crafts. Yeah, you read a lot of speeches Can I ask you a question? And this is not political okay like was Hitler good Like I don't let it know German, so You know I do not spend a lot of time Choppers hit the chops like Bill Cosby was a great comic. We I could I'll say it okay was Hitler good You know I just haven't listened to enough of the speeches We I presume yeah, yeah, there was there was some charisma there did Hitler do like a yes weekend What was it? Where do you stand in the GOAT debate? Okay, so this is you think Hitler or Martin Luther King? Where are you? You've been a Hitler guy for a while This is a good story his first like foreign trip in the middle of the 2008 campaign and he goes to Germany and so Ben Rhodes and I work on the speech and Ben goes on the trip with them. I'm back in Chicago And it's like an hour before the speech and then had the foresight of being like I'm just going to run it by Some Germans just to make sure we're not there's no like tripwires, you know, and we have this phrase at the end of the speech Or we say something about like a community of fate or something I don't know fire and and Ben's like yeah, we have a problem that that is a Nazi. That's a Hitler That's a Hitler like we lifted a Hitler line. Yeah Yeah, it was a Hitler bar. There's a Hitler bar And so we were we changed it Figure it out and change it like that right before the speed you would add an if benign Berliner. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Do you think he was actually that hot? Kennedy yeah, people like that. I got it Obama should be yeah Obama's late that smile Yeah, yeah, he's probably hotter. Did you write the lines that were like for a skinny kid with big ears and a funny name? That's him. Oh god. I loved what he did That's him. Oh god. Oh god. I loved what he did When he talked about I was like I got a funny name and big ears. That's him. That's him When he talked about I was like I got a funny name and big ears. That's him. That's him. Oh, you love talking. He loved making fun of his big ears Oh my god, so cute the way he did it. Oh my god. There was one about a what it was Lincoln though, right? Lincoln. A gangly. Oh yeah. Yeah, that's right. He likes some Lincoln references. Obama's into Lincoln. Big time. Really? But he's a Republican. I love when they say. That's why he's bipartisan. They say party of Lincoln. Like they would have been in that party. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We just had this primary in New York in this general where a Democrat was being attacked by a Democrat. And it was like, in retrospect, it's Islamophobia. Like, yeah, like it is. Like Zohra Mamdani is from the Upper West Side. I mean, he's basically Jewish. I mean, like he is, you know. And then they were like, this is Osama bin Laden. Right. You were in a pretty vicious primary where your boss was attacked. And there were Islamophobic attacks launched. All kinds of attacks. I guess like, and that candidate became the next candidate for president. Why is there a space for that in the Democratic Party? Like, I mean, if we want to be like, the Republicans are racist. Right. Like, why is this happening in the Democratic Party? Well, like, you know, in that 08 primary, it was subtle, right? Yeah. Mark Penn, her chief strategist, had like written a memo that was. Like, we got to talk about how, you know, that you're American and your American roots and that he's not as American. It was like something. I'm paraphrasing. But yeah, it was pretty bad. It got worse when, obviously, in the general when Sarah Palin did her thing. But. What was her thing? You know, just being. She made that movie. She did make that movie. Or that reality show. Oh, never mind. I had to talk about that different thing. Oh, yeah. That movie. Yeah. That's a good one. But I found out it wasn't Sarah Palin. It was Lisa Ann. It's called Nalin Palin. It's a pornography. Was the guy in it Barack Obama? No, I don't think so. No. Was it McCain? No, it couldn't have been McCain. Was it Putin? Because she saw him from the house? That would have been good. If he, like, across the Bering Strait. We should do a remake. If they fell in love across the Bering Strait. Yeah, we just made it just a beautiful story. Like, yeah. And then just hardcore sex. Anyway. I don't think Obama ever seen. Cut that. Okay. Cut that. That's just. Come on. We're having fun. Cut that. You ever hoop with Obama? No. They never asked me to hoop. Yeah, yeah. But you were telling me. They did what. You know what? We were in the campaign once, like, at some stop, and they were like, do you want to play tomorrow? And I'm like, no, I don't want to play tomorrow morning. Yeah. I'm going to be horrible. I'm going to be in my. In your head. I could barely play when I was, like, a freshman in high school. So I can't imagine embarrassing myself and, like, being in my head when I was with. With the president. But you said that. You were saying before the show, I mean, I don't know if this was off the record, but that Obama calls bullshit fouls in pick-up games. And people are like, fucking. Come on, dude. Come on. This is a bad line, though. I want to criticize this. Sure. Our children are going to have to turn off the TV set once in a while and put away the video games and start hitting the books? Mm-hmm. You wrote that at, what, 24 for Obama? Yeah. What a fucking. What a fucking loser. Loser. You wrote, like, turn off the damn. You wrote, pull up your damn pants? Pants. Yeah. He was big on all that. He was a pull-up-your-damn-pants guy? Yeah. Where did he. He stole that from Cosby, though. He did. One of many. Yeah. All right. I went to school in D.C. I remember the night. We were talking about this on the phone yesterday, but the night Obama won, it was, like. You. Which I'll always remember. So I was working on the speech, like, the couple days before, and I was trying to figure out an ending to the speech. Yeah. If we won. And I'd seen some story on CNN about how there was, like, a three-hour line to vote in Atlanta. Uh-huh. And there was this woman who waited in line for three hours, and she was 102 years old. Uh-huh. And her name was Anne Nixon Cooper. And Obama killed her. Yeah. And so I was like. I was like, oh, this is a great way to end the speech, because I can talk about all the things she saw in the century that she's lived in America, and, like, all the progress. Like, when she was born, like, she couldn't vote because she was a woman, because she was black, and then you could talk through all the. And so, right at the ending, Obama likes it, and then he calls me right before they call the final state, and he's like, all right, I'm going to give you final edits. Gives me the final edits to the speech. And then my friend, Tom. He was like, you should probably. We should, like, call Anne Nixon Cooper and, like, let her know she's going to be in the speech. Uh-huh. So I have our research people find her number. I call her up. It's like, frail woman answers the phone, and I was like, tell her the whole story. And I was like, and he's going to give the speech soon. And she goes, will it be on television? And I was like, yeah, it'll be on television. She's like, what channel will it be on? And I was like. And she's like, all the channels. And she's like, I'm so happy, I'm so proud, finally. And then right as she said that, they call Ohio, and it's the election, and, like, everyone's just cheering, and I'm, like, sitting there talking to Anne Nixon Cooper on the phone for a couple more minutes. It was pretty cool. I want to cry right now. I thought she was going to say she voted for McCain. And then she was like, anyway. When he runs again in four years, let me know. I'm 102. You think I voted for Obama? You f***ing idiot. What's wrong with you? That Muslim socialist? Are you kidding me? What is wrong with you? My dad was kind of like that with Bernie. He's like, they won't let us be the president. They'll kill him. He's like, yeah, just like my dad would not. He's like, I'm not voting for him because he's Jewish, Adam. They're not going to let us. He's like, I agree with pretty much everything he stands for. But, Adam, come on. They let us be Supreme Court. They only let two Catholics. It's kind of a proper Protestant country. Think about it. It is. Well, Obama's a Muslim, I guess. And Trump is Baha'i. about how much he loves the bible like he's like he's like the bible is great it's like i know all the parts yeah it's like when lebron was talking about the autobiography of malcolm x he's like and he was on page one he's like it's just the how smart he was yeah um you're like in the middle of history right did your mom still tell you to go to law school that night no that they were they let go of the law they're like you're now you're making 35 this is great you're off to the white house 35k you're the richest guy ever loser it was like a moment where it's like america yeah things could get better because i think i remember 9-11 and then things started getting sad maybe shit's gonna be better and uh i can't imagine what it was like for you guys that's what we um we did there was like an echo at the beginning of the speech about how uh change has come to america that was you which was intentionally from the sam cook song oh i thought hitler from morgana hitler because we thought like we needed a good like american anthem but that was also about not just triumphant but about like injustice being you know yeah solved a little bit or at least improved but even then i will say as as wonderful as that night was and it was like you know we were all excited because the financial crisis had already begun we all sort of knew that a storm and that like we could enjoy we could enjoy election night but that like this was going to be even harder than we imagined when we started the campaign because things were getting things were pretty bad you should have told me i mean i that's it's an interesting thing to bring up because like that was i i did feel like idealism but like i do remember very early on where i was like they broke the economy right there were people that that ruined people's lives and i was i remember going home i was like graduating college 2009 so like the job market was terrible like um and i go to visit my parents and like there were lights off in our neighborhood and people have been like foreclosed on and i remember like i did feel like that idealism kind of was extinguished when like they didn't go to jail and in fact they got richer a lot of them you know so there weren't there weren't laws on the which is part of the problem part of the whole reason the crisis happened that you could prosecute some of these people for i remember there was like two bear stearns traitors who were prosecuted got off and they had a then they then there was like a civil suit against them i remember like years later they settled that and one of the reasons we passed uh or worked past wall street reform dodd frank um was both to make sure that that never happened again but also to put laws in the book so that um people couldn't get away with that shit um and it was but like i remember but i sorry to cut you off but like i do remember that like larry summers was like saying like we need evictions to save the banking crisis you know like that was a major influence in the administration it was like i was like fuck it's like why are they letting these guys do that like i remember when the um when they asked that ran aig we're gonna get their bonuses um and we i was like well obviously we're gonna get their bonuses um and we i was like well obviously we're gonna get their bonuses um and we i was like well obviously we're gonna get their bonuses um and we i was like well obviously we're gonna get their bonuses um and we i was like well obviously we got we can stop them obviously we got we can stop them obviously we got we can stop them from getting their bonuses right yeah and from getting their bonuses right yeah and from getting their bonuses right yeah and they were like no no we're gonna have to they were like no no we're gonna have to they were like no no we're gonna have to he's gonna have to give a statement he's gonna have to give a statement he's gonna have to give a statement saying saying saying we can't yeah and i sat down with larry we can't yeah and i sat down with larry we can't yeah and i sat down with larry and i'm like okay explain this to me like and i'm like okay explain this to me like and i'm like okay explain this to me like i'm an idiot and he had a flight he had a a flight yeah right he had a flight to the island and i was like explain this to me like i'm in i'm an idiot because i was who doesn't know anything about the economy which i didn't i don't know anything and i was like why why are they getting the bonuses well it's contract law and if we take the bonuses and claw them back it's against the law and then they could super and i was like here's the thing there's people with pitchforks yeah like outside the white house right now for good reason yeah and like this is it just and it's just like indicative of those first couple years where there was just like unsatisfying decision after unsatisfying decision that we had to take or couldn't do anything about because the economy what what was set in motion that destroyed the economy was already set in motion so all we could now i do think if we went back like we probably we should have done more on housing yeah and uh um for sure because the foreclosures just like continued for way too long and it was much worse than anyone thought at the beginning um where did you ever like voice like like vigorous like opposition to a decision and because the thing is you're a speech writer right so you're not like you you kind of were like obama was like what do you think did you ever say what do you think not really because i was the 20 something because you're 28 okay so but i got to see a lot i got to i didn't really participate but i get to see a lot of the policy debates unfold yeah so because you see that and hear it you start to realize okay well there's a reason that they're making this unsatisfactory decision right and so you sort of understand it but people like the most common question i always get is like was there anything that you just completely disagreed with like you had a political right that's what the only one really was like i you know he didn't come out for gay marriage until the re-elect in 2012 and i was for gay marriage long before that well so you get sharia law yeah sharia law i think a lot of us sort of imagined that he was actually for gay marriage but the politics prevented him he probably said it he was probably like a four game he never said it um i think he's you know he's also he's he's old school in that regard which is like he's i think he it took him a little bit to get there too i think he got there before he actually said he was for it but i think that the politics got in the way if i had to guess but that was the only issue that i was so you never yeah no you're never like gay people shouldn't get married the speech right because there was yeah there was a gangly kid with big ears i'm not gay by the way by the way i'm not gay and that's why i'm managing 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Did rom, you got rommed? Oh, yeah. You seem a scary guy. Yeah, but you know what? He was a scary guy, but I finally realized that when he yells at you, you just have to yell back at him. Really? And then it's fine. You would yell back? I finally did, because he would-- Fuck you. He would once in a while, he would just, like, once in a while call and weigh in and be like, I got this great line for the speech that, like, Carvel sent me, or Begala sent me, you know? And I was like, OK, cool, what's the line, and it's a line that sounds like-- sounds like it's from the '90s. And I was like, eh. And then he was like, come on, why are you, like, yelling at me, and then finally I was just like, no. Yeah, and he's missing a finger. Rom was a yeller, but we, like, the Obama campaign didn't have, like, yellers. That wasn't, like, Axe Rod wasn't like that, Plouffe wasn't like that. It really was, when we got to the White House, some of the old Clinton era people that came on. Rom, mostly. Rom was like a, Rom was a figure that was different than the typical Obama. Do you think that there was a resentment amongst those Clinton people? Because in DC, my understanding is that, like, he didn't serve a full term in the Senate, even, Obama. He was like, skipping the line pisses people off. And do you think that in the party there was, like, a resentment that kind of lasted? I don't know. I think that, all I know is that when Hillary came on as Secretary of State, we were all very skeptical, all of us on the staff level who'd run the campaign. I think her staff was also probably skeptical. I think that Obama and Hillary genuinely developed a good relationship. And so that wasn't, that wasn't much of an issue. I think the more, I think the resentment probably came more from Congress. Like, Democrats in Congress did not think, like, they were very happy that Barack Obama was president, they loved him, but they did not think that, like, they owed him everything and had to do whatever he said. Because I think a lot of them thought, well, I've been here for a lot longer than you have. Is it true that, like, the vice president is, like, the loser? Like, the total fucking loser? I think that's what my understanding is, is that you get a vice president, you're fucking, you fucking just abuse them. No. Like, go figure out this impossible thing, loser. There's a little bit of that. You'll be the czar of the impossible thing. No, Biden got to be, like, help manage the Recovery Act. That was his, that was his first job. Why did you give him a good one? He liked it, too. Yeah, I don't know. It was a good, he was. No, I think you're lying, dude. You can't have the vice president. His head can't get too big, right? Yeah, no. No, the vice president, it's just tough because, like, it's a job where you don't have any official responsibilities. So, like, every new vice president has to, like, make up with the president what their job is. Obama would never be the vice president, right? Because he's too. He's too. Too alpha. He's got too much sauce. He's going to give a speech that's too good that John Kerry is going to want to steal. Right. Right? Right. Yeah, he would never be the vice president. Like, so you can't get a guy that's, like, going to, like, look good. Yeah. You can't get. Like, you know. Well, we thought with Joe Biden, we're like, well, and he's not going to run for president because he's, like. He ran every time. Did he run every time for president? Since '88? Yeah. No. But he ran. He ran twice. Did he skip one? Yeah, he did skip. He skipped a couple. He ran in 2008. I think before 2008, he hadn't run since '88. He loves running for president. Loves running for president. Yeah. He finally became president. I mean, he loved. He even. He even did it last time, too. He did. He did it last. He loved it so much, he did it last time. He couldn't stop. Yeah. He was addicted. He was dead. Were you guys worried about his addiction to running for president? I think the whole country was. We're like, we love you. We're here for you. Yeah. This is an intervention. George Clooney, take it away. Yeah. Like, America felt like it was getting sadder and sadder. And then there was this moment where it was like, what if it's better, right? And then we saw, you know, a guy that was super young and has, like, left office super young who is the first black president. And that's amazing. We got rid of slavery at the shot clock. That was a buzzer-beater, getting rid of slavery. I mean, like, and in America, like, you know, it was like, holy shit. And then we kind of saw them make his life kind of hell, no? Yep. You know? I mean, there was a real moment where I, that I was, like, after Sandy Hook and he's, like, crying. Yeah. And he's like, just fucking, just ban bazookas. Like, please. Like, there are, like, babies just died. You had to have seen him, like, fuck. What is the most bummed out you saw the boy? I think then, after Sandy Hook, when we tried to pass, because remember, we tried to pass background checks. Mm-hmm. Like, the most basic, incremental shit you could imagine. Just make sure it's not Charles Manson. Right. So there's a background check bill, this horrific shooting of children just happened. It was babies. Yeah. It is. And then, you know, Joe Manchin and Pat Toomey, conservative Republican from Pennsylvania. Yeah. So you're, like, it's not, like, a bunch of libs, right? Mm-hmm. And-- Now, Joe Manchin is a soft-- a wook. Yeah. And with those two sponsors and doing the bill and Barack Obama and the tragedy, no, it just fails. Just don't-- we don't get-- and then he's, like, if we can't get background checks at this moment with these people, like, what are we doing? Did you ever cheer him up? Were you like, can we watch a movie finally? He-- honestly, like, he would cheer us up. Really? Oh, yeah. He was, like-- He was nice to you? I remember after the-- it was in 2012 with the re-elect. Yeah. And he gives his convention speech in North Carolina. And I thought the speech-- we all thought the speech went well. We were all happy. And it got some, like, terrible reviews from a few places. And, like, Politico is, like, just saying it's a terrible speech. Mm-hmm. And they gave the better speech at the convention. And we're on Air Force One, like, leaving, going back to DC. And I'm sitting there, and I'm just, like, reading the Politico piece to him and other people. And I'm just, like, mad and yelling. And he's, like, hey. He goes, how do you think I feel? I wake up every day-- You humiliated me. He goes-- He goes, I wake up every day knowing that half the country hates me and doesn't want to-- hates everything that I'm doing, doesn't like what I'm doing. He's, like, and I just-- you've got to keep going. He's, like, this whole job is, like, making sure you listen to people, that you listen to criticism, that you take in all the right information, that you really sit with the thoughts. But, like, once you make a decision, you make the decision. You let the chips fall where they may. And if people are angry or people criticize you, you just got to keep moving. Because otherwise, he's, like, we're never going to get anything done. And you're going to get in your head. He's, like, my job is not to sit here and be, like, upset all the time and in my head and worried about criticism. My job is to do everything. I'm going to do everything I can do to, like, help the country and make people's lives better. And then it made me feel like an asshole for complaining about it. What are you complaining about Obama? - Grow up. - Dude, everyone hates him. He's wearing a tan suit and eating a burger with like French crap on it. - Yeah. - Yeah, those were his scandals? - Yeah, the tan suit. - He's eating a gay burger. - Oh yeah, okay, the Dijon mustard. - Yeah, Dijon mustard. - Forgot about that. - You fucking, like that was on the news. That was his, that was the moment where he got love from everyone. - Oh, with the Bin Laden operation? - You were in the Situation Room? - No, I was not right into that. - What a loser. - Loser, no, because-- - What a loser. Were you outside, like trying to listen in? - No, 'cause I didn't know what happened until, I didn't know what happened until I got the draft remarks of what he was gonna say from Ben. - Oh, you were a fucking loser, dude. - Well, I didn't do any of the foreign-- - Oh my God. - I wasn't the foreign policy national security speechwriter guy. - That's so-- - That sucks. - Yeah. - Can you imagine how sick it was? Hillary Clinton saying, "This is my plan, "I'm calling all the shots here." Shut up, Obama. Seal Team Six, yeah. - No, it was the night after the Correspondents' Dinner where he gave a big joke speech and he made fun of Donald Trump, and so we were very focused on that speech, and I remember the day of that speech-- - Oh, he ruined it. - Well, we were like, yeah. - He ruined the world. - And then he killed Ben Laden the next day? - He was so-- - Oh my God. - We're like, we're gonna, so it's like, John Leavitt and David Axelrod and I, we're like, all right, we're gonna go into the Oval and just get last minute edits on the Correspondents' speech, great, and they're like, oh, he's meeting with some general. The speech is in five hours, we gotta make all the edits, like, let us in, you know? And so-- - No, he's talking to Jeff Ross, the Roastmaster General, obviously getting better jokes than your ass. No, he's talking to Lisa Lampanelli, he's got the-- - All of it. - The Harvard Lampoon guys. We go in there, and he's like, chilling, throwing a football around, just in a good mood. - No. - Yeah, and then he was like, all right, I like the speech, everything's great, there's just one line where the joke is about Ben Laden. He's like, and I would just make it some other, like, you know, bad guy or Middle Eastern sounding guy, 'cause it was about, anyway. And so he's like, what about Hosni Mubarak? And I was like-- - It's the worst line. - I'm like, that's a terrible-- - It's the worst line. - It's the worst line. - Terrible joke. - It's like saying Mussolini is a Hitler. - It's like, Ben Laden is so much, and he's like, trust me, trust me. And the meeting before us was, he was on the phone with General McRaven. That was like his last call before the mission. - Okay, first of all, let's go back. He's bragging, he's doing a wink, 'cause he knows that's a better line, right? Second of all, or maybe he doesn't wanna disparage the dead. He's like, I don't wanna-- - Also possible? - What, he's trying to be nice to Osama? - Well, he wasn't dead yet, he wasn't dead yet. - The terrorist Osama bin Laden? What is he doing? - He's worried about getting sued. - He's like, it wouldn't be purple of me, it wouldn't be purple of me to disparage, his body's barely cold. I'm gonna go in there, he's gonna be watching porno, and I'm gonna shoot him. He had a lot of pornography, right? - A lot of pornography. - Yeah, it was pretty cool. I wonder if he had-- - Halen Palin? Yeah. Full circle. - Yeah, that was a good comment. - You got jobs, brother, you got jobs, brother. When you left, what year did you leave the White House? - 2013. - Yeah. How'd you feel, getting out there in that world? You felt like kinda-- - Like I could go-- - I'm gonna take on the world. - I could live life a little bit. - Yeah. - Take a break. - Yeah. - And then I moved out here, moved to LA, out here. - Yeah, you tried to get into the biz? - Yeah, I thought I was gonna-- - You were like, "Rom, can I get your brother a WB?" - Well, I met with Ari when I went out to LA, and it was like, he was exactly like his brother. - Yeah. Oh, I thought he was gonna be like Ari Gold. - And that too. - He had a Lloyd? - I walk into his office, and he's like on a treadmill, on the phone, walking treadmill, yelling on the phone, and I was like, "Is this real? "Is this just like entourage?" - So you were writing like really important speeches, right? - Yeah. - You were writing speeches for the President of the United States, and then you were writing like a 30 Rock spec script for your packet? - Basically. - What's wrong with you? - Well, then we-- - Your parents should be disappointed. It's a disappointment. - It was a disappointment. - I'm gonna be a little bit of a Jewish mother, like, what are you doing? - Yeah, well, it didn't go anywhere. - I have to do this. I have no skills. - Then we started writing speeches. My now co-host and co-founder, Tommy Vitor and I, we started writing speeches for hire. - Yeah. - So we did that for a little bit. - Did you ever get pissed? 'Cause you're like, it's not, like-- - Yes, all the time. That's why I ended up, I couldn't do that job. - You're like-- - We did it for like two years. - Did you write a Zuckerberg? You dropped a Zuckerberg? - No. - No, you did. - Oh, yeah. - You wrote one, and he was like, "This is the change that we believe in for a gangly kid with big ears and a funny name." You're like, what are you doing? - It was hard to take, like, any company that was like, oh, the CEO really needs a speech urgently in a month, and it's so important, because, you know, I'm like, this is not that important. - Would you write a speech for Donald Trump? - No. - What if it was like, he gave you $1 million? - I could, I mean-- - What about-- - I could, at this point, after-- - You're a craftsman. - I could easily write a speech to Donald-- - In his voice? - Exactly in his voice. - In his voice, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - But I would not do that, no. - Arnold Palmer's dick! - Yeah. I wish I did a good one. What was your sitcom specs group? You did 30 Rock? - No, it was called, it was called Early States, and it was gonna be about a bunch of young people in Iowa. It was supposed to be like a-- - And they were hooking up. - Like a funnier, more like, you know, raunchier sort of West Wing kind of thing. - Oh, and they were like on the campaign trail? - Yeah. - And they were hooking up? - Yeah, basically. - Yeah, yeah, and there's a little, it's like a Veep. - A little more Veep. - It's like an Iannucci. - Yeah, before Veep, yeah. - Oh, all right, all right. I wrote a 9/11 Sex and the City spec. - Was that, yeah. - Where Carrie, Carrie was upset, 'cause like-- - That's still in development? - No, they're not gonna make it, 'cause in this political whatever, but yeah. Carrie, 'cause Carrie's dating New York City, so she's really sad. But Samantha has to get south of 14th Street, 'cause she needs to go have sex. - Yeah. - And then Steve and Charlotte, or Steve and Miranda are trying to spice things up in their relationship. They're not really paying attention to 9/11. And then Charlotte's like, realizes she's watching TV that she had sex with Mohammed Atta the night before. What, I think it was kind of a serious episode. - Yeah, no, I think it was. - I don't know if that was meant to be funny. - More of a dramedy. - You found a company, Fenway Strategies? - Yeah, that was it. - Yeah, what the , like a Boston-- - Yeah, Boston guy. - What were your strategies? Like, you should blind a Vietnamese guy in one eye in a street fight? What were your strategies? Keeping minorities in a neighborhood called Jamaica? That's a little bit on the go. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I don't know. - Yeah. Mispronouncing car? Who put that in here? Was it just pure exhaustion leaving the White House? Or like, is there like a, do you want to get off the bench? - Now? - Yeah. You kind of like possess a very valuable perspective on things. Do you feel like perhaps like an obligation to, I mean, look at this right now. I mean, like you should, what are you-- - I do, I do feel an obligation, but I think that the reason we started Crooked Media, and Pod Save America, and all the rest, and Vote Save America was to, 'cause our theory was we need like, the way people consume news about politics now is broken, and people don't want to participate in politics. - Yeah. - And people are unsure of like, how to persuade people to, you know, vote the way we want them to vote. And so we figured, let's start a media company. And also let's make sure that there's part of the company, which is Vote Save America, that like, registers people to vote. - Yeah. - Gets people to vote, gets people to organize, gets people to run for office themselves. So right now, I feel like that is me doing-- - Yeah, but look how stupid they are. The guys, the guys know. - The guys in the White House. - In the, no, just in the, in the show. - In the show. - The guys in the league right now are, you're smarter than the guys in the league right now. You know that. - But now we need a good candidate. Now we need a good candidate for 28. Why are you doing, yeah, all right. - Why not, why not? You're a good looking guy. You buzz the hair. You get that fucking-- - You think I should buzz the hair? - You get the aviators and you buzz the hair. - Put the aviators back on. - Oh my god. - Less hair. I'm running for office. - What would JD, what would JD Bin Laden do about it? What would he even do? He would have no shot against the buzz cut kid with a gangly ear and whatever. With a, a skinny kid with a huge dick and big ears. Did you ever have to, did he ever write the huge dick and you're like, "Mr. President." - You can't just, yeah. - You can't just say that. - It's show not tell. - It's come on. A skinny kid with big feet, you know what that, we all know what that means. I mean like, yeah, I guess like, yeah, starting a media company, obviously you have access to a lot of people. You know, that's, you have a huge platform now, of course. But like, is there a motivation? Like, is there something inside of you where you're like, I kind of like, especially like seeing so, how wackadoo it is now. - Yeah. - Where it's like, I could have a direct involvement or I could have like a, you're doing analysis now, right? - Yeah, like, I wouldn't shut the door on it, but like, I'm always trying to figure out like, how am I being most useful? and right now I think I am of better use doing what we're doing if there was a humble thing right now oh no no no this is just like I they're dumb guys they're dumb guys now there's a there's a ton of smart people who's the smartest I don't know besides Bernie obviously Bernie right no there just needs to be but like you need a candidate right like you need a you can I get a movement that's good you get organizers you get staffers you need a candidate who can inspire the country and right now yeah it's probably gonna have to be stopped or me I think a lot about your old boss and obviously you know I think about him in like a Martha's Vineyard watching TV hmm and like it was just like what that like there has to be a small inkling or like fear where's like is it my fault did I do something you know or like right like it's like the world fell apart like like right after yep um yeah he doesn't think it's his fault but I think he spends a lot of time thinking about how do we get out of this how can I help and he spends a lot of time talking to a lot of candidates a lot of people in the party yeah I'm trying to figure out sort of but he I think he also knows that and he said this he's like I you know I can't be it can't be like dragging me out on stage forever but you need to be a new a new younger leader in the party I was at the election night at the Zora speech and I believe that they asked the speechwriter you know this there were a lot of parallels with Obama speeches and that was like something no I thought of those guys they're there yeah fantastic that must feel cool I mean they it does feel like there's a young notice and charismatic guy in the party again when we were and we're they're calling him a Muslim again and it's like wow we're back you know we were we were in DC a few weeks ago and a bunch of us from the Obama world got to hang out with a bunch of the Mamdani staff and it was great we were like the old guys like reminiscing and so proud of them and you know it's like we're all like different parts of the ideological spectrum but there's there is a real connection there in the yeah this is one of the first campaigns we can remember in a while where people were so excited and it was genuinely grassroots and that like it got people off their couch and off their phones and meeting up and knocking on doors and yes it was about Zoran but it was also about like these kids the young people in like a really tough time actually allowing themselves to be hopeful again it sucks dude it sucks because you it's like it's like supporting Arsenal I was talking about it was Zoran it's the hope that kills you it is the first time it was your fault and then it was when they knifed Bernie twice this is why it's like hope difference between hope and optimism not the first one to say this but like I I like hope optimism I don't like because it's like optimism is just guessing or hope or singing like maybe the future will be better now and and so now we elected Zoran and like he'll either do great or he'll disappoint us and that's it but having hope is like all right what are we all gonna do if you're living in New York City to help make sure Mamdani is a successful mayor well you personally I'm going back to like you and feeling a sense of obligation like you had a first-hand experience on like a popular grassroots movement that didn't that had trouble translating into into legislative success a lot of time like you more than anyone I would imagine could impart those lessons mm-hmm you know to to an administration like that maybe you should be like an intern or PA or something I take calls from from anyone who wants advice I'm always happy to yeah I do a lot of free work in my time no you're like I'm on the phone with Zuckerberg I can't take his call I have to I have to teach him buddy mark I guess like at this moment like there's the Democratic Party kind of it still hasn't coalesced around like platform agenda platform agenda yeah opposition to yeah - what is that coalition at this point I think back to that first video that Mamdani did in in his race when he went to the Bronx and in your neighborhoods and was asking voters who like voted for Trump for the first time they told him why and he wasn't judgmental and they talked how it was like well too expensive and that's why I did it and I do think that whatever the coalition is for the Democrats it's gonna be like hey the purpose of a political party the purpose of government is to make sure that you can do whatever possible to improve people's lives and prove people's financial well-being and if we you have to be willing to first of all talk to everyone talk to people who didn't even vote your way leave out the possibility that I mean hold open the possibility that you can persuade people and that people aren't unreachable just because they voted for Donald Trump and build a coalition of working-class people in this country and we like the Democrats will never win an election if we are a coalition of college-educated mostly white people and which is where it's heading towards and you know for a while we thought okay we're the more diverse coalition and then we started losing working-class Hispanic voters and started losing some rappers working-class black men you're losing rappers losing rappers not good and so you know we're still a diverse coalition but the way it's going is it's getting more college-educated black people and so you know we're still a diverse coalition but the way it's going is it's getting more college educated and you just you know two-thirds of the people in the country don't have a college degree one-third do and so do the fucking math like we're not gonna be a majority coalition that way and so you've got to find a way to you know reach out and win working-class people again and the way to do that is to it's really hard because you want to have an agenda that would tangibly improve their lives but also you have to deliver on that agenda and you have to be able to like Zoran is going to have to figure out how to get a big part of his agenda passed or else you're gonna get a thing - it's a messy thing and it's not all gonna get done and so then you've got to figure out like okay I mean we dealt with this with the Affordable Care Act it's not everything we wanted it's not everything we needed but we got 20 million people health insurance and we still need to build on it and now we need to you know expand it and all that but it's hard to say all right this it's it's super difficult to pass a piece of legislation this big we did it that's great but now people are still not happy because for good reason they don't have enough and so now vote for us again and we'll do the rest like even saying it like it's it sounds so piecemeal and incremental and the reality is that's politics and that's the way the fucking system of government is set up I mean I think like I was obviously a big support I was a big support of the Bernie Sanders campaign but I think one of the advantages is like you go to the doctor is a thing that you can understand yeah and it is a tangible exchange of like if you vote for me you go to the doctor there's a transactional aspect to it right like ever like like it is it is a very simple and I would imagine a compelling platform to say everyone in this country should be able to find a job and if you have a job you should be able to see a doctor yeah live somewhere yeah yeah and have enough money to raise a family only if you have some free time only if you have a job and if you don't have a job you can't go to the doctor then you can't know and if you don't have if there's not a job available to you yeah then we'll help you as well is there feeling amongst members of the administration of regret after seeing what's happening with ice right now I don't know because it was it my understanding was a small program in DHS that was expanded under Obama yeah we that we know we where we fucked up was the first couple years that's where like most of the deportations happened and then by the time I think like Obama and the administration got their hands around it they change the because if you're president you have a lot of latitude there and so you can sort of change the enforcement priorities so then you can say alright ice can only go after people who are like violent criminals or the most recent arrivals right and so I think by the time like 12 13 14 get around to that but again you're dealing with this it with ice which is like has a mind of its own and and and and got pretty big under the end of the Bush administration so those first two years you saw like a ton of deportations and the expansion was under Bush or was it which and that when then I thought Bush was trying to do the he was trying to do amnesty wasn't he and so were we the president can do a whole bunch of stuff on enforcement and either enforce more as Trump is doing now or enforce less yeah as we did by the end of the Obama's second term and that's what we're going to do but you're never gonna actually fix the system unless you change the laws and say okay the people who are here who are undocumented you all get a path to citizenship you get protection from deportation and we're not just gonna say that you get protection under one president and then if Donald Trump wins again you don't you lose it you're gonna write it into law I Lena Khan on the show and she was talking about how there's a like an inquest or like some tribunal after in Congress like in into like how does a country become the Nazis. And I'm like, whoa. I was like, they try to learn a lesson? I'm like, that's, I mean, that sounds baffling in this day and age, right? But then in the abstract, I understood kind of what was going on with the detainments. And, but there are, in effect, concentration camps in America right now. And like, just go, I've tried to say this before, but I think the most succinct way of saying it is like, how does a country become Nazis? Like, not every German person became a Nazi or started hating Jews. They just, it was largely invisible a lot of the time. They would see people get snatched, and then they'd go to the office the next day. And like, they were sent to the East. And I think like, I can see the Democratic Party sometimes being like, we got to protect Social Security. You know, like, I can see them be like, like, we don't have time. This is happening. But like, what's more important is protecting Social Security. And that is. We got to talk about kitchen table issues. That, that is. That is, I think, what's really scary to me right now. Actually, it's scary. It also. It's human beings. It's like what keeps me awake at night. It's infuriating to me. And part of this is like, we've been talking about, you know, Germany and all that. Like, you don't even need to do any of the historical parallels, because then you get into all these conversations. Is it like that? Is it not like that? Just go from the level of like, individual human beings. There are hundreds, thousands of people in this country, like, many of whom are. We're here legally. Did everything right. Didn't just like, cross the border illegally. We're here legally. Some of them U.S. citizens, snatched away, taken from their families, from their kids. Pregnant women who like, aren't getting the food they need. Like, that is happening in this country. And all I can think about is like, you can show me the f*cking poll that tells me, well, people don't care as much about immigration. And if you talk more about health care and Social Security, that's like, I get that. I'm a student of polling. I like polling. I've done it, you know. But like, you can't tell me that if someone hears the story of the pregnant woman who was snatched from her family and imprisoned for three days with no due process, that that's not going to get them angry? And maybe, and if it doesn't, then I guess that's our country. But at least we can try to make sure that people know that those are the stories that are happening right now. It seems like now is a time where we kind of need to take some lessons, not from just Trump, being crazy, but from like, what led us to this point? A hundred percent. And what is like, the first, most important thing that we should be investigating and, or what is the biggest lesson we have to take for the runway that led us here? I mean, because you were there, for that, for the runway, the initial time, like, what? I think we need leaders in this country who, and you brought this up when you talked about like, how the policies can sometimes feel small or incremental. But I think that Democrats for a while now have campaigned with a list of policies that poll well and also have campaigned sort of based on a sense of fear that either they're going to lose the election or that the other side is going to win and the other side is so bad that they can't say anything that would help the other side win. You know, and so everyone is campaigning very cautiously and speaking cautiously and given their poll-tested lines and their poll-tested list of policies that work well. And I think one thing that I've learned from the Trump years and from the Obama years is if you want people to pay attention to politics, to be engaged in politics, and to fight for the country that I think we know that, you know, that we're going to have to fight for, you know, we're going to have to fight for, you know, we're going to have to fight for, you know, we're going to have to fight for the country that I think we know that, you know, we're going to have to fight for, you know, we're going to have to fight for, you know, we're going to have to fight for, you know, we are better than that. Sorry. If you want people to fight for the country that we believe in, that you have to, you have to do more than that. You have to, like, say what you actually believe. Also, sometimes you have to pass the Civil Rights Act. You have to pass the Civil Rights Act. And sometimes you might lose the South, like, forever. You have to pass the Civil Rights Act, but even think, like, I mean, like, think of what it took to get. I mean, Johnson should be that example. That's what you were reminding me of. It's like, I'm not going to get reelected. You know, and it's not fair, because I killed the guy from before, and, like, no, that is, that is not true. George Bush's dad did that. Okay, but, okay, no, no, but, like, Johnson, you know, he made a massive sacrifice for the party and for his own political career to do something that was right. And it took 10 years of people marching in the streets, getting the shit beat out of them, dying, and also leaders like Martin Luther King. Who, like, spoke in a way that was not just political, but, like, spiritual and moral about the country's, like, best ideals that we have never reached, but they're out there. And we need leaders who are going to speak like that again, in, like, moral and spiritual terms about, I mean, look, this is a country that, like, was founded on the most radical idea in history that everyone's created equal. Yeah, not f***ing. Not f***ing. Wasn't that it? And, like, you've got to have that, like, set of values that you speak about. You've got to tell a story about the country, about what it's been at its best, what it is at its worst, and, like, where it needs to go. And you have, and that story has to be told over and over again, and it has to be told with confidence, and it has to be told without some kind of a fear that people are going to attack you or yell at you over it. And I just think, like, that's the kind of, those are the kind of leaders we need in the party right now. And I worry. I worry that people are thinking too small right now, not just from a policy perspective, but in a rhetorical perspective. Like, what, what is the story you're going to tell about where this country needs to go? And past Trump, we've now dealt with Trump for 10 years. We've all heard about Trump enough. Like, we don't need a whole primary in 2028 that's all about Donald Trump. There was a lot of George Bush when we ran in 2008. But, like, we didn't spend a ton of time in every speech talking about George Bush because everyone was like, George Bush is done. It's done. It's been two terms. We know that he f***ed up the country. And now we're going to talk about what's next. And I do hope that as we start getting towards 2026, 27, and 28, more Democrats are talking about, like, where they want to take this country. Would he like me, Obama? What's that? Would he like me? Yeah, he would like you. No, shut up. Like, he likes jokes? He does like jokes. Yeah. Have you ever told him that Kendrick Lamar isn't that good? He should put, stop putting it on the list? I've never told him that, no. I wonder, yeah. Like, have you heard? The future is a way better. It's the society, the institution society. Come on, dude. It's not smart. It's freshman year. As a writer, you can admit it's a little bit showing, not telling. Or telling, not showing. A little bit. Yeah, yeah. You're just saying the society, the institution of the societized. You're not showing an image. I'm going to give it to Kendrick. You're not painting. Oh, come on, dude. You're more of a Drake guy? Yeah, me and Obama are. Obama just can't admit it because he's Canadian. Yeah. And he's anti-Semitic. Has Obama ever sent you a selfie? No, he's never sent me a selfie. Have you sent him one? No. You definitely. Can you, why don't you just send him your first set? Just say, I realize I never sent you a selfie before. It's crazy. Hey, boss. You still think he's your boss? He's boss for life? You know. Yeah. If he needs something, I'm always, you know, he needs help with something. I was like, sure, yeah, absolutely. Sir? Yeah. You're like, drop a baby? You're like, what? He's just, can we, can we face off Obama? Just real quick. Joji, Joji's favorite president is Obama. Joji is a 26-year-old boy from Los Angeles, California. And his favorite president is Obama. And he wants to. He wants to, he wants to face down. And he's dying. He has a terminal illness. Shut up. Joji's very sick. And this is his life. All right. Woo! Thanks a lot. Hey, guys. Give it up. Woo! Woo! 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