Jon Acuff: Faith, Calling, and Overcoming Procrastination: Page 278

Page 278 of the Unfolding is the story of John A. Cough. I had this view of God where it was like he had to love me but he didn't like me. He was obligated but it was kind of like I'm annoying. And I was like God I only note how to weep with you. I don't know how to dance with you. I felt like here's like well that I just need to give you lots of reasons to dance. God's story has been unfolding. Since the beginning of time. He invites you to be a part of it. Another page in the unfolding. Have you ever realized that the way you see God might not actually be true? Hey, this is Meredith Foster. John A. Cough grew up in church. Faith was always a part of his story but for a long time the way he understood God well it felt more like pressure than relationship. And that shaped everything. How he saw himself, how he approached life, even how he thought about his purpose. Today John is a New York Times best-selling author and speaker but his story isn't just about where he's ended up. It's about what happened when his faith became personal. When God began to reshape the way John saw him and how that changed the way he walked through fear, calling and the decisions in front of him. This is a story about what happens when God meets you in the middle of your life and begins to change the way you see him and the way you see yourself. Like a lot of people, I grew up in the church. My dad planted a Southern Baptist church in the 1980s in Massachusetts. So we moved from North Carolina to New England for him to go to seminary and plant up there which was unheard of at the time. Southern Baptist churches in the 1980s weren't in Massachusetts. So I got to experience kind of the entrepreneur adventurous side of planting a church which was a lot of fun and our first building was a renovated car wash. So I grew up watching my dad do that. You know, had an early faith experience, got baptized in the fourth grade by my dad. But my faith really came into my own, I would say, late 20s. You can't inherit faith. It's not passed down like a watch. I really had to learn my own journey and it really kicked off and I would say my late 20s when I'm a young dad and a young husband and I plugged into a men's group that was really encouraging and challenging. And so that's when I really would say my personal relationship that was that had a depth kind of begun. I went to college in Birmingham, Alabama at a school called Sanford. I majored in journalism and I was focused on advertising and after school I went back to Massachusetts and I had a lot of jobs in my 20s. I was really restless. Didn't have a sense of mission or purpose. I had six real jobs in eight years. I just jumped and jumped and jumped and it took me a while to kind of find my footing. I would say until my mid 30s I was pretty unmoored in what I was doing. When did what was the blog called stuff Christian's like yeah, where did that come from and when did that help well that was part of kind of what changed my life. People always want there to be a eureka moment and I'm sure some people have them were like an old man who looks like Gandalf comes into your life and says like two sentences and then walks into the forest and you go the rest of my life was different. That's not my experience it's usually a series of small things that collectively I can see God's hand in but I was motivated by two things desire and disappointment. I bumped into writing I started a blog called Prodigal John that nobody read for a year my mom read it that was about it and then I started stuff Christians like on a whim because there was another popular site called stuff white people like about making fun of white people and I was like you know what Christians like ripping off popular ideas. I thought that'd be a funny so the very first it was a numerical list all I did was make a list and said stuff Christians like number one taking popular concepts and putting a God spin on him so it's like instead of like gold's gym it's God's gym his pain our gain and just like we do that and it was bothering me that we do that and so I just said I'll start a funny blog so I had a desire because I bumped into blogging and then I had the disappointment of I didn't like my career I didn't know we were poor like I told my mom. I told my wife I just thought we were outdoorsy we liked camping and she was like no we camped because that was the only thing we could afford we could only afford $11 a night in camping we could go nowhere else we were poor and she said why did you think I volunteered for the church thrift sale and I was like because of Jesus and she was like yeah sure but also because if you volunteered you could shop at the day before it opened we could clean the toys and give them to our kids and so I was really disappointed where life was in the collision of those two things is where stuff Christians like can we do that. So I was I'm 50 now you know I was 32 33 kind of right in that that age. Okay so that actually happened after kind of your spiritual. Oh yeah yeah yeah and couldn't have otherwise I wouldn't have survived it I wouldn't have survived an ounce of attention if I wasn't rooted in Jesus like no way. That's why whenever I see somebody have a rocket ride and they don't have that I'm like woof good luck like asking me a hard one to survive. I mean you're gonna make it an idle almost immediately and it's not going to be permanent because fame or popularity or tension is never permanent. So yeah I would say I was two or three maybe even four years into kind of really exploring my faith when that kind of started to gain some traction. What helped you realize where faith had been for you wasn't gonna work any longer. Well I mean I had more responsibility than I'd ever had before like I had two kids I had a wife and Jenny was staying home with our kids. So I was the soul income. I just felt a pressure and it was a good pressure. I'm not a bad pressure like kids aren't a bad pressure. I was facing a series of grow up moments where I was beyond my ability like I always say it kind of this way. On the days I run in the morning like on Sunday morning before church I ran seven miles and the rest of the day it's easy for me to drink water. I don't have to force myself and it reminds me of when I've over my skis and beyond my ability I don't have to force myself to pray. I can't help but do it on ceasing. I'm in the wilderness like if he doesn't show up it felt like an early wilderness moment of I can't do this solo. I know I can't and that created this conversation and a lot of kind of unpacking things I used to believe that we're kind of broken and things that I needed to learn. And so that was a big season for me. How did your relationship with God change? Well I mean I didn't think he was a jerk anymore. I had this view of God he was kind of like a jerk God where it was like he had to love me but he didn't like me. I had this grumpy version of God in my head. And also just I had this mopey version too. I remember where I was I was praying I was like God I only know how to weep with you. I only know how to bring you my bad times never celebrate the good times with you. I felt like here's like well I just need to give you lots of reasons to dance. And then all this stuff started happening where I was like oh my gosh. And then I just started to read scripture and see things in a different way like the prodigal son story I've read a million times as someone who identifies with the prodigal son like I've made kind of a mess in my career. And I realized one day that if you read it the father never talks to the son like he doesn't say a single word to the son. So when he asks him for his money he gives him his inheritance. That's all it says when he comes home it says he says to the servants grab the fatacaf, grab you know get my robe. He never says a word to the son and it just hit me that all too often when God is quiet in our own lives. Do we go he's mad he's disappointed he's frustrated but what if he had us embraced and he was just busy planning our party. Like what a change to silence that would make so then I just started seeing passages in different ways as I explored them and actually brought a full heart to them. And so I'd say it was all of those things together. One of the things that really stands out to me in John's story is that the turning point didn't start with success. It started with a different understanding of who God is and that inner work will it matters because sometimes the most important part of the story is what God is doing in us before we ever see what he is doing around us. You said then a series of like incredible things started to happen what were some of those things that started happening here. Yeah so the blog I mean I think 4,000 people showed up on day nine. So I'd written it for like nine days and people started sending it to me or like have you read this guy's stuff and I was like I am this guy like that's crazy. What were you doing for work at the time when you started the blog? I was a senior content designer for auto trader which is like fancy for copywriter. So I was writing instructional copy mostly where it was like here's how to fill out a credit application when you're trying to get a car loan. I worked at auto trader which owned by Cox great company like not a bad situation just not they didn't need the creativity I thought I was capable of. I had extra creativity to go extra places and so then I started to do that and then it was like a speak you know an event planner in Oklahoma said hey do you ever do public speaking I was like of course I do like no I didn't but I was like alright I'll try that. So he was like we want you to close out our conference and I went and did a terrible keynote to like 40 people in Oklahoma but it felt like oh my gosh this is amazing. And then Dave Ramsey asked me to come speak to his team and I went up and it went really well and then he asked a second year and a third year he was like hey I want you to come do what I do like let me show you how to do this on bigger stages. So I went I joined his team and went from speaking 80 people to 8000 in like a month. because I was opening his events. And so just things like that, or like, hey, we want you to freelance and help North Point with some ideas. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm in a meeting with Andy Stanley. We're working on it, or like, Dan Kathy, the CEO of Chick-fil-A, is like, hey, I want you to travel around with me and help me with leadership ideas. And of course I'd hang out with a billionaire and help them with leadership ideas. All this stuff is kind of swirling at the same time. That's what I mean, but stuff like that started happen. And then Zonderman's like, we'd love to publish a book of your ideas and they publish the Bible. Like, that's crazy. And so like, that's the kind of stuff I mean. - Wow, what you just described is like a trajectory that's like crazy. Tell me what was happening in your relationship with God when you go from, I'm writing content for Auto Trader. My blog starts to blow up to stepping into a space. I could see where in Poster Syndrome, or fear would have just made you say, no, to those opportunities. Tell me about what was happening in your relationship with God as you were riding that wave. - Yeah, I would say he's trying to have me hold on to authenticity. I remember a moment, I'm riding the opening intro to the book's stuff Christians like. And I've never written a book before and I'd already had my wife read some of it. And she's like, who's book is this? This isn't your voice, 'cause I felt like in Poster Syndrome, no, when you write a book, you gotta be serious. A blog is one thing, but this is a book. And I had a lot of pressure and I was acting like somebody I wasn't. And so I would say God used my wife in those moments so I kind of reflect back like, hey, no, like, your voice is enough. Specifically, the intro, I still remember, like we're sitting there in our living room. I let her read the intro and she's like, it's so boring. And she doesn't have a problem telling me the truth. Like, she has been gifted with. - I love her. - Yeah. So anyway, she reads this boring introduction and she's like, it's just so boring, it's so watered down. And she kind of dares me to write something better. And I'm like, fine, I'll show you. I'm kind of frustrated. And the first line is still one of my favorite lines I've ever written. The first line of the book's stuff Christians like is, if you buy this book, God will make you rich. And the second line is, I was gonna say if you read it, but you won't get the same blessing if you just get it at the library. And it just goes and it's not mean 'cause I love the church. Like it walks this really thin line of like, I'm with us, I'm in this, like, I'm not attacking. Like, I want the best for us. So I would say in the moment, God's like, hey, I need you to hold onto your voice. I'll show you what your voice is. I need you to trust me with the next step. I remember a friend of mine said in that season, God is a light unto your path, not a light unto your mile. I realize, oh, all too often I go, God, give me the next six month plan. If you just give me the plan, I'll do it. But he knows if I got the map, I would worship the map, not the map drawer. And so he loves me enough to only reveal a page of the map at a time because he has a man of relationship. He wants a daily man of relationship. So I'm learning lessons like that in the mix 'cause I'm like, what do I even do with this? - A couple of things you said there that really struck me. You were talking to God, it was, show me what your voice is. Your voice is enough, but you had to know what your voice was. You had to understand, like, recognize that and to trust God with your path. I'd love to know how that works out in your day-to-day life and relationship with him, especially during that season when you're right in the rocket. - Yeah, so I mean, I'm still in this moment now, like today I was thinking about it where, one of my prayers is, give me a testimony, not a biography. I want a testimony where I can point to things that only can be God. This that I'm sharing you is a testimony, it's not a biography. Like, the point of this isn't like, look at all the right decisions I made, look at all how talent turned, like, there's so many things that weren't, let's just take the Dave Ramsey situation. I got to work at that job, which changed the arc of my life. I had a great three years there. I got to work there because a guy named Jay who I had never met read my blog, he worked for Dave Ramsey and he said, "Hey, I think we should have this guy come speak at our weekly devotionals." He submitted my name to whoever approves those, and next thing you know I'm getting to do that, I can't take credit for that. I've learned over time, the best things I've ever had are received, not forced. And so that's the tension for me as somebody who likes to get after it. I'm a high energy person, I'm a hard worker. But I just know that like, the best things that happened to me are received, not forced. Even this morning I did a TV hit on a local TV station and there's three people that are gonna be on the segment and one of them is somebody I haven't seen in five years who I absolutely love. And I was like, "Of course you're here." On the same day as me, like, "Of course." And so now, you know, my prayer was like, God, show me your hand. Like I'd love to see your hand today and something I can't take credit for. 'Cause then I get to celebrate it. Then I get to go like, "Oh man." And a friend of mine said it this way, he said, "He gets the glory, we get the blessings." And that's a pretty good setup. And I was like, "Yeah, that is a pretty good setup." I liked that. - When you look back over those years, what were the things you were most afraid of? - Oh, just abject failure. I mean, I was afraid of the ego side of it. I remember the day stuff Christians like my very first book releases and I remember driving home down the highway on 400 North, back to Alpharetta and looking around at all the cars and realizing no one here knows. Like this was the biggest day in the world for me and nobody here knows. You think as an author, like the core of the earth is gonna break open and we're gonna be like, "Oh my gosh." Like, but that day I had a series of meetings about a bunch of projects. And so just that kind of ego wrestle of, here's this thing, or like the whiplash of, I would call it the reverse Superman. So at this time, I'm starting to get people to ask me to speak, but I'm just using vacation days. Like I remember, I saw contract the other day and it was like $800 fly to San Diego, give two speeches and I was like, "That's amazing." I get all $800 done. And what I would have to do is I would fly home, back to Atlanta and usually I had to go right to work so I'd go from the airport early flight. I'd change out of my normal clothes in the handicaps style, an auto trader, into my work clothes and then just go back into the cubicle and that was a jarring experience to go from like, I motivated 1,000 people and now like, and so I called that the reverse Superman. But even in that season, God very clearly was like, "Look, I'm giving you the gift of invisibility. You're invisible right now and you're getting to learn without a lot of eyeballs." And I was like, "No, make me visible, make it bigger, make it bigger." And I wanted opportunities I wasn't ready for. And he was kind enough to slow roll those until I had a better sense of how to do that in the best possible way. Was he honing your craft or honing your character? Or both? Both, honing the craft, definitely. I did an event with called Global Leadership Summit a couple of years ago and if you asked me 10 years ago, are you ready for it? I'd be like, "Oh, of course, I'll crush that." I'm like, "I'm great." And I wasn't. It was just young man, swagger. So he's definitely honing my craft. But yeah, he was also honing my character. We're like, "I was thinking about that the other day. I've sold more than a million books and I am under no illusion that the second million will fix the things I struggle with." Like I set next to Dr. Henry Cloud on a plane who wrote boundaries with John Townsend. And he sold 20 million and I was like, "That fixes you, right? Like once you get the 20 million, he just started laughing because I know it doesn't." So I hope that like the character part is like, "Oh, this thing's awesome and I'm gonna do my best, but I'm also not gonna look to it to fix me." - How did that season walking through that honing character craft? How did that change the way you trust God? - It's like anything else. I'm constantly picking it back up myself and trying to clutch it. Like, okay, I got it from here. It's not what I've done. Like, all people are always like, how do you get over fear? And I always say, I think you go through it. I don't know if you get over it because over it's a perfectionistic term as if I'm done with fear. And what I learned is there's new fears at each new level. The only time you're completely fearless, like by yourself, like with God, no fear, but by yourself is when you're not trying new things. So the first time I spoke to 10 people, I had 10 person size fear. But I worked on it, I prayed through it, I practiced all the stuff. Then I spoke to 100 people. I was like, oh my gosh, 100 person size fear. And then a thousand people at each new level, there was a new thing. Every time you, I tried a different thing or I let a different team, there was new fear there. So I never felt like I was done with it. It always felt like a reason to kind of go, okay, like if you don't show up in this, one of my favorite prayers is, I need you to make it stupid, obvious. I had a situation that took years to resolve. Just a painful situation. Almost 10 years to resolve. And I prayed about it and I released it. I constantly release bitterness about it. Like I kept picking the bitterness back up. And finally I was like, God, I wanna get this over. And he was like, it's not time. And I was like, well, then you better make it stupid, obvious. That's one of my favorite things to say to him. I was like, it better be stupid, obvious. And about a month later, it completely resolved out of nowhere. And I got to laugh in that with him. So for me, those are the moments where I'm like, oh, I'm still growing in so much of this. I feel like I'm just getting started in so many, so many different ways. - You talked about early on that you really weren't clear on purpose or maybe even calling. What did the season with Dave Ramsey teach you about calling? And when you left there, what was clarified for you? - Well, I mean, it was a fire hose. Like it was a PhD. Like I got a PhD in doing that. Like any time I felt like my schedule was flawed, look at Dave's. And he lived what he did. That I did learn that. Like there's sometimes you're around people on stage and who they are on stage is the opposite of who they're off. And like he's one person. So I learned about like having a life where you're one person. Like that was a huge lesson for me. It's somebody like, oh, okay. That I learned that success isn't bad. I had a lot of broken soundtracks. I wrote this book called Soundtracks about our mindset. And I had a lot of broken soundtracks around success that evangelicals kind of have. Like there's certain levels that are good success. if you get too successful, you'll get cocky or like you really shouldn't have ambition, you know, and I think we have a God who dares us to ask for more. Like we have the most generous God. But I learned about that. Like, oh, you can be really successful at your talent and still love the Lord. I mean, but I also learned that like working with Dan Cathy, I learned you can be a billionaire in generous. There's not a line where money becomes sinful. Like that's a heart thing. Like I've met thousandaires that have terrible hearts about money and I've met billionaires who have tremendous hearts about money and do amazing things with it. So I learned a lot about that and then the leaving was I wanted to try it on my own. Like I wanted to try to build my own business. I had this entrepreneur bug that I wanted to try it on my own. And so even though probably my greatest shot at fame was to stay there, I really wanted to try it. And it felt like a time for me to go try it. So there were definitely sacrifices in leaving. But the last 13 years have just been a fun, fun adventure like into into the forest. How did fear show up in that decision? Oh, yeah. Easy, easy. It didn't just show up in that decision. It showed up for years after. So like I'd be having a great oh my gosh. I'd be having a great day. I'd be driving down the highway. And I'd pass a billboard of somebody I used to sit next to who was launching their book with a billboard and I'd go immediately go, well, I don't have a billboard. Like I don't like I'm not as successful. Whatever the thing is, whatever the metric. So yeah, living in the same town that the company was in, I was constantly ego reminded of like, man, what have been cool? Have a billboard, huh? Yeah, I laugh about that now. But yeah, it was a constant letting go of that to focus on the thing I felt called to. How much was soundtracks? I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about that book. But how much was dealing with the lies that you tend to believe in replacing it with truth a part of that season? Oh, learning what it means to take every thought captive, learning what it means to renew your mind was game changing to me. And that's that's what led to soundtracks was going, wow, like I have a broken soundtrack. But you know, even it's my own business become successful. Like, oh, I have some broken soundtracks about money that I didn't know about. And I'm self-sabotaging. Or oh, I believe I'm one step from being the worst version of myself. If you said to me, which was the worst version of yourself? Oh, Atlanta, like no questions. Atlanta, like job jumping, average marriage, whatever. And then like, oh, I'm taking a risk. Remember, if you mess up, you're right back to being the worst version of there been, which is so anti what God says. Like, the old is gone. The new has come. Like I see I'm doing a new thing, even if you don't perceive it. And so learning how to change my mindset. Yeah, that started in 2019. So I'd had my own company for six years. I was trying new things. I was doing new things and realizing, wow, unless I deal with mindset, nothing I ever do will ever feel right because there'll always be that kind of broken sound tract of, well, it could have been better, you know, or must be nice. Like I had a money wise, I had a Christian musician here in Nashville tell me if you buy a $90,000 suburban, other Christians go good for you. Family car, you can get a lot of kids in there. You buy a $90,000 BMW. They say, hey, you know, Jesus wrote a donkey. Like I don't really think you need it all that. And same exact amount of money, different brand, different judgment. And so like even getting in there and being like, oh, I got some money things I didn't know I had. Like I think we're all onions in that sense. And God is just continually in a loving way, removing things. What were some of the core things that God began to show you? This is true. And maybe I'm thinking especially about you and your own identity in light of him. Yeah, I mean like that he's for me. That was a big one. Just that core idea. Like he has the best for me. Somebody said it. They were like, you never trade down with God. Like he's never asked me for something in my life that I got a worse deal on. And so like the soundtrack that I wrote is like God's the worst negotiator. When you think about it, what he gives in return, like I go, here's all my mess. Here's all my mistakes. And he's like, amazing. I will give you a replace of brand new life. I'm like, that what a trade. So like that kind of thing or just again, prodigal son like that we have us God who fixes a problem with a party. That's not how any of the rest of life works. If you have a fight with your wife, she doesn't get a bounce house for you. But we have a God who fixes problems with parties. That's that makes no sense. Or then like peace. I'm a very high stress person. I have a lot of natural anxiety. So even just that I don't need circumstances to feel peaceful. Then you know, the peace surpasses understanding. Just the other day he was kind of like, I feel like your codependent with your circumstances because you need them to be going well for you to feel peaceful. And then it was like, Hey, by the way, you're also codependent with your kids' circumstances. And I was like, what do you mean he's like, well, you need your kids to be happy for you to be happy? And that's the definition of codependence. And I was like, oh, okay. Okay. So things like that over and over and over again. What's the basics of like how you replace those lies with truth? Was it was a repetition? Was it? Yeah. What did that look like for you? It's like 50 things. You know, the court answer. It's not. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's for me like, I'll pull, I'll pull one off my wall. I have a post in order on my wall right here. This one's from November 29th, 2024. And it just says, I like the name John A. Cough. So this is him challenging me on, hey, I want you to learn how to not beat yourself up. I want you to remember like, I like John A. Cough. God likes John A. Cough. And I was like, okay, like this has been on my wall for like 18 months. Again, I see it all the time. So it was everything from being deliberate about the audio I listen to. When I'm running, I'm listening to sermons. When I'm driving somewhere, I'm listening to an audio book. Like it was being deliberate about what I'm consuming. It was being deliberate about what I'm reading. It was being deliberate about what I'm reminding myself of. I, you know, for a solid year, last year, I kept a list called John A. Cough's owner's manual. The things that make me function the best, that feel most connected to God, healthiest, happiest. I just kept a list of them because if somebody should have an owner's manual of John A. Cough, it's John A. Cough. And so there's little things, big things. And it just made me self-aware. So even just going like, okay, God, when you light up my heart, when you help me see that so that I can write that down and then better yet repeat it going forward. Because I think when we think about the enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy, one of the things he steals is the things you enjoy. So many of the joys you have in life are reunions, not first times. And you go, oh, why did I stop doing this? Like I just had a coffee with a friend and I haven't done it in three years. What happened? And we forget that that's one of the things the enemy over-amplifies your failures and under emphasizes your successes. And so I would say I did 50 different things and still do a lot of things. Okay, this is kind of a broad question, but I'm really curious about this because already in this half hour conversation, you've said it doesn't or more times, you sense God's direction or he was, I don't know if you use the phrase speaking to you, but you've obviously developed a relationship with God where you get direction from him. How do you hear from him so well? For me, it's journaling. Journaling is often the way. When somebody said to me like, how do you define the Holy Spirit or spiritual maturity? Do I definition is when I don't do something I usually do? Like when I don't have the knee jerk reaction, somebody cuts me off, somebody's offensive to me and I react in love. And in that moment I go, hey, that wasn't me. I didn't, that's not what I do normally. I have a track history. I'm 50. Like that's not and then I go, oh, hey, like high five Holy Spirit. Thanks for that. Or where like this is such a silly example, we were at a friend's anniversary party that had been married for 25 years and the mom of this couple who was probably in her late 60s hosted this little party at her retirement community. We all came and she was reading a letter to her son-in-law and daughter and it was beautiful. And there was this part of me that was like say something sarcastic and just get this, get, let's change this whole thing. And I was like, oh, let's talk about that later. Like why do we feel uncomfortable and sarcasm is the tool we want to use to stop feeling uncomfortable. And I was like, oh, but the Holy Spirit in that moment is like, hey, bro, you don't need to say that. Like don't like let this moment be this moment. And I was like, oh, so it's not always massive things where like there's something written in the sky. But sometimes it's just like knowing me, I might have said something in that moment like a funny joke. Nothing mean, but definitely not what the moment required. And I was uncomfortable. And I was like, oh, this emotion makes me uncomfortable. I should think about that. But also like journaling is where it started where I was like, I was able to kind of process and think and be still. And then just also asking, I don't think we ask enough. You do not have because you do not ask. One of my prayers is often, I'd love to see your hand today. Get a small way I'd love to see your hand today. In a big way, and then recognizing it for what it is and going, oh, that was really cool. I'll give you one of my favorite examples. This is so crazy. So I'm giving this speech in my own town, I live in Franklin, Tennessee. This is the greatest definition of generosity I've ever heard. I'm giving this speech and I mention that I have a Lego 9/11, 9/11 Porsche. And I go, I'd be amazing to have a Porsche someday. I have a Lego one, you know, kind of a joke. So after this couple comes up to me, probably in their late 50s, and they go, hey, we have a 9/11 here. Again, the event's going to tour us around all weekend. Why don't you just take the car tonight and bring it back tomorrow after lunch, like take our 9/11. And I'm like, I can't do that. Like, what are you talking about? I'm like, I can't do that. And then the wife says this. She says, we share it all the time because if we can't share it, it means it has too much power over us. And that is my favorite definition of generosity. So she gives me the ballet ticket. Then she starts amping me up. The husband's like, you should go on the net just trace and she goes, no, it's only 35 mile per hour. for our road, you gotta find faster roads. And any question you have, the answer is yes. Can it make that corner? Yes. Can it overtake that truck? Yes. I go to the valet, I give him the ticket, and he goes, what's the name on the reservation? I go, I don't know. I don't even know their name. And he goes, ah, it doesn't matter. Top notch security, by the way. He brings around a 911 Turbo S. It's probably a $200,000 car. I don't know how to turn it on. A friend has to come over to the window, go, dude, it's on the left side. He'd do the, I was like, I laughed the entire ride home with God. Like I just laughed and laughed and laughed. I called up every friend I had the next day and I whipped around all over town. And then I brought it back and I was like, that was ridiculous. So those are the kind of things I'm like, I'd love to see that. I laughed in part because he knows how long I've thought about that car. Like, as an eight year old, there was a dealership near our house and they sounded like dragons. I could hear them through the forest, you know? Like, and so that was just a like, oh my gosh, that was really, and then like, how do I be generous that way? Whatever resources I have, time, knowledge. So those are the kind of moments that become more powerful as I share them. And then like, our pastor shared it from stage in front of 10,000 people. And I was like, dude, and he said, like, and here's a story from John and he was like, dude, the crowd gassed. And now it's gone to people. I don't, I don't even know. And so like, that's just like, that's the fun side of God to me is like, wow. You've developed this relationship. All these incredible things are happening. When I saw you written a book on procrastination and you said that was something that you had struggled with, it surprised me. So-- Sure. Yeah, that's a kind way to say it. My friend rolled his eyes and I was like, dude, whatever. Like, that's how he said it. But that just means the person didn't know me the first 34 years of my life. So for me, I knew in the third grade I wanted to write books. My teacher, Mrs. Harris at Donan Elementary School laminated some poems. And I knew I wanted to write. And then I procrastinated on it for the next 26 years. In my 20s, I knew that I was such a grumpy employee because I knew I wasn't doing what I really was supposed to do. I was so frustrated. I tell people all the time, I've written 11 books since 34. Where were those words going before I got to do books? Can you imagine how pent up and frustrated and my poor wife on hearing all my ideas I do someday? The reality merit is I couldn't have written this book number two. Let's say at 37, I write a book that says, "Procrastination proof never gets stuck. I couldn't have done it because I didn't know it was true." Like I hadn't done the thing yet. Like, it would have been a guess. It would have been a hope. By book 11, I feel really good about going, "Hey, I'm the most distracted person you've ever met." This is ridiculous, but I wear holes in the butts of my jeans from wiggling so much while I work. My wife is like, "Who does that, you psycho?" Like, "I am the wigglyest, most distracted person you've ever met." So how have I been able to do this because I figure it out some tools that I think will help other people? And where you see that in the book itself, the book is 71 short chapters. And the reason why is I'm a former procrastinator and when I research books on procrastination, they'd be 300 pages long. And no procrastinator's gonna read that. I wanna win, I wanna short win. And so the book has 71 short chapters because a procrastinator's gonna go, "Okay, this person sees me, this person gets it." And so yeah, I love that people look at me now and go, "You're not a procrastinator." I go, "Oh, my wife would love to tell you some stories." - Do you think procrastinations related to a fear or a being unwilling to trust God in something? - Oh, yeah, yeah, totally. Like, do we ever let, yeah, of course. It's all the things. If you really trusted that you had the Holy Spirit, you had access to the person that made the Rocky Mountains. Like, if you really believed you had that access to that creativity, what project would you be worried that you couldn't fulfill? What task would you go, "I don't know if I'm capable." And I think life tends to come down to three fears. Scarcity, ability and community. So, scarcity is what if there's not enough left for me? Ability is what if I don't have what it takes and community is what if I get kicked out of the community? What if I get isolated? And so you go, "Imposter syndrome." Imposter syndrome is, "What if my community finds out "I don't have the ability?" And then I run out of opportunities. So it's all three. Our inner critic is, "You don't have the ability "and you're gonna be found out." I think those three fears motivate a lot of the procrastination we see. But the other thing I'd say, you also have to admit the procrastination industrial complex is really good at their jobs. - Describe. - Yeah, so I say it this way, procrastination is the most well-funded fear in modern history because Hulu doesn't sponsor inner critic. Netflix doesn't sponsor perfectionism, but all of them sponsor procrastination. They don't want you to do the thing you really want to do. My favorite quote was read, "Hey, scenes of CEO of Netflix "who said in 2017 are number one competitor asleep. "They're worried you'll get to sleep. "They're worried you'll spend time with your kids. "They're worried you'll write your book. "They're worried you'll do a devotion. "Whatever your time is the engine "of their machine." That's where you have to go, "Oh, it has gotten easier to procrastinate "because our distractions have scaled faster "than our discipline." And it's okay to admit that. Don't beat yourself up about it. Just figure out ways to deal with it. - For somebody who feels stuck, maybe they're even avoiding something they feel called to. What would you want them to know? - I would want you to know that you don't have to become capable. God is capable. I would say you have to get into a conversation with them. He's more generous than you can imagine. When I say I had to learn he's not a jerk, like versus like would you give your son a snake if he asked for a fish? And like I'm even better than that. If you have kids right now, my favorite thing is to delight my kids. Okay, I can't be generous enough to my kids. And then I go multiply that by a billion. That's how God is. What does that look like? So if I think about my calling, if I think about being stuck, if I think about what I'm capable of, gets times a billion, the more you can hold onto that picture of God versus the opposite, I think the easier it is to do some of these brave things. One of my favorite principles, the way I define discipline is make tomorrow easy today. Make tomorrow easy today. Meaning what can I do today to hook up future me? We tend to write our letters in the wrong direction, meaning we say what would you tell your 20 year old self if you could go give them wisdom? And I was that 20 year old. He wasn't looking for wisdom. He was scared and insecure and arrogant. And that person no longer exists. But the seven year old me actually exists. I can do things today to send gifts to that person. So you start with a small principle. You start with like, what can night me do to hook up morning me? So like morning me used to get up and be frustrated and go, I want to get after it, but I'm so tired and groggy. What do we do last night and night me? You go, we stayed up till midnight, doom scrolling and then we ate a lasagna. And it's like, you put me in a corner. And so now I've learned how does night me hook up morning me? And then it became what can Monday me do to hook up Friday me? If I want an easy Friday afternoon, what can I do a Monday to make that happen? And then it became, what are the kind of things I'll be glad I did in my 70s when I'm in my 50s? Give that person could write me a thank you letter where they say, hey, thanks for putting away money. Thanks for being responsible. So I love that idea of what can I do today to make tomorrow easy? - As you listen to John's story, maybe you hear parts of your own story in it. Maybe it's that place where faith has felt more like pressure than relationship or the tension of knowing there is something in front of you, but not feeling courageous enough to step into it. What I appreciate about John's story is that the turning point wasn't everything around him changing all at once. It was God. Changing the way John saw him and the way John saw himself. And then from there, everything else begins to take shape. John is a New York Times best-selling author and speaker and what you hear in this story is really the foundation for so much of the work that he's done since. His newest book is Procrastination Proof and it grows out of his own experience of knowing there was something God had called him to but struggling for years to fully step into it. John is also the author of books like Soundtracks and all it takes is a goal. We'll link to his website along with the Procrastination Proof Book, his social media and more in the show notes. I am so thankful to John for sharing his story. Big thank you to our amazing podcast team, Michael Schirmack and our producer and network director, Jason Rackow. The unfolding is a part of Think Podcast and you can learn more at myfadepodcast.com. Hey, if you've been listening and thinking, oh, I know a great story for the unfolding. Well, we would love to hear about it. You can share more about your story at the link in the show notes. We'll be back next week with another page of the unfolding.