JoJo Siwa Invents Gay Pop

(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to another episode of Base News Network. My name is Sophie, aka Joan of Arc, and I'm here with Kaya, aka punk revolution now. Say hello, Kaya. - Hi, Sophie. - Hi, what's up? - Oh, you know, just listening to songs. - JoJo Siwa. - Listening to JoJo Siwa. - Today's episode is going to be all about the beloved JoJo Siwa, the people's princess. - The pop star of what's talking about right now. - The queen of gay pop, indeed. - Yes. - Yes. - So yeah. - Let's crack the open. - Let's crack it open. When did you first encounter JoJo Siwa in your memory? - It was very late, like, not at night, but late. I'm gonna be honest with you, Sophie. I'm pretty sure you were the person who introduced me to JoJo Siwa. - I was. - I was pretty sure. - Oh my god, yeah. - Okay, damn. - So it was within our relationship. - Wow. Okay, well, that checks. My first experience with JoJo. I was at the Mall of America. I was born and raised in Minnesota. Visited the Mall of America very frequently. Of course, I was too old for JoJo Siwa far too old. I was like a teenager. I was at the Mall. And at the Mall of America, it's really big. And they have this sort of central area where there are sometimes performances. And I saw her and this infinite crowd of little girls with like big bows in their hair, like rocking out to her music. And I saw her performing. I'm like, "Oh my god, who is this?" And then I found out she's like a huge phenomenon. And yeah, then. And now we're here. - I. - Of course, she was on Dance Mom's, but. - Yeah. I, yeah, I like her. - Well, the thing is so, because you should probably watch more Dance Mom's, 'cause I actually wanna get to this. - I miss Dance Mom. - Let's watch more. We should watch more. - We should. - 'Cause I wanna get to the seasons where she appears. - Right, we didn't quite get there. Because I feel like Dance Mom's is already such an amazing show in the first few seasons. - Yeah. - And then later in the show, also one of the biggest pop phenomenons of our generation appear. Like, what the hell, how can Dance Mom's get any better? Like, obviously we gotta keep watching. - Exactly, yeah. Why are we talking about you just see, well, she recently had a rebrand. She was already kind of transitioning out of this child star cutesy image. I think it's been going on for a while. She came out as gay. She cut her hair. She kind of started dressing a little. She, you know, she, yeah, she got rid of the ponytail. She got rid of the bow. She started dressing a little more masculine more chill than, like, how she previously had been dressing and was sort of easing her way into adulthood. But now this rebrand is to accompany her new single, Karma, and I'm sure all of you have seen the photos of her dressed in this black body suit with the kiss makeup and her crazy hair piled up. And yeah, that's her new vibe. What do you think? - What do I think? Well, I, I like it. - I don't like it. - I like it. - Can't explain why. - Sure. So. It's a little off-putting and a little jarring. And, you know, can I be honest? I've always, oh god, I hope this isn't sound weird. I've always found, I've always found Jojo Siva a little bit off-putting. (laughs) - Oh, I thought you were gonna say, like, hot or something or beautiful. - No, well, she's, I mean, you know, I, no, that's, I would never comment on like that. - Okay. - But, and I just wanna say, I've always found her a little off-putting and it's not because she's LGBT. - It's just, wow, no one ever thought that kind of. - Okay, I just wanted to say just to make sure, if anyone thought that's why I thought she was off-putting. I don't know, just like, she's always seemed like kind of a strange phenomenon. - She is a strange creature. - She's a strange creature. So. - And dearingly so, in my opinion. - And dearingly so, and I exactly, like, I like her. - I do like her. - I do, I do too. I do like her. But, I feel like this vibe is just, first of all, it's tired. She actually mentioned, and I'm sure her team told her to say this, but she said she was inspired by Miley Cyrus's Bad Girl Era following her Hannah Montana Days. And you can kinda see how she's dressed here. Just going all out with the like, I don't know, rocker, glam, rocker, chick, look. Kiss makeup, I don't know. But it just, the thing is that it just looks bad. The outfit is bad. The makeup looks horrible. The hair is horrible. Oh my God, it sounds so mean, I'm sorry. I, JoJo, I'm so sorry. I don't mean to disrespect. I just, I just don't think that it looks good. And I think the makeup is too much. It just, the look doesn't make sense. Okay, so let's keep going on this 'cause I feel like we're getting into, we're getting to some juicy territory right now. So, two things. One, well, I don't even know where to start. It looks, yeah, it's jarring. Like it just, it looks bizarre. Like the kinda like the fake, what is it? Like goatee or whatever. Yeah, it looks like a goatee and it feels weird. Like Darth Maul, but I don't know. It's definitely jarring and the music video too for the song Karma. The music video also was like, sometimes like the choreography would be like, they'd be dancing really, like helping each other. Yeah, they're like dancing in, like. The music video is so good. I, it's really bad, but I love it. No, I, exactly, like that's kind of how I feel. Like I just sort of feel like this is so bad. It's kind of, I'm getting a kick out of it. It's kind of camp, I won't lie. And again, I like, just to see what I'm rooting for her. I just think this look is just not good. Like she could look, I think she could look, it's not that she looks edgy. I don't, like the edgy rebrand thing is kind of tired. Like we've seen it before, but it's really not that. It's more so, it just isn't executed well. Like it just doesn't look as good as it could. And I don't mean she has to look super feminine. I just mean the styling, the makeup, it just doesn't look good. And that's not her fault, it's, it's more of her team. Hmm. I don't know so. I don't know. I'm gonna, I'm gonna push you on this a little bit. Okay? Okay. Because I'm seeing a little contradiction here. Okay. Because you're saying what she's doing, the, the bad, the bad girl rebrand is tired. It is, yes. Which it is, but at the same time, you've never seen a rebrand quite like this one. Sure I have. Miley Cyrus. No, you haven't. No, you haven't. Miley Cyrus. No. Yes. Okay. Listen. Listen, okay. Listen, okay. I want to talk more about Miley in a second. But first I want to say, Miley had her bad, like there's plenty of bad girl rebrands. Plenty. Exactly. But none have had a look. Like this. Um, I don't know. Like I think we're forgetting about Taylor Momsen. I don't even know who that is. Oh my. She's, so you know Cindy Luhu from the Grinch movie? Yes. That little girl, remember her like hair and stuff? Yeah. This is what she like turned into, okay? And it's in it serves like I will not lie, it's lies, but okay. Well anyways, I think I don't think I've ever seen a, um, you're a man. Okay. Sorry, sorry, sorry. You haven't seen all the serves, you haven't seen the girl serves. I think by JoJo not serving. Wait. JoJo is serving. No, you're talking. You see what I'm saying? - Yeah, okay. - Like usually-- these bad girl, these bad girl rerans kind of serve. And this one is like a bad girl reran that doesn't serve. And that in itself is what makes it original. Is what I'm trying to get at. - Yeah, no, no, like I'm enjoying it for sure. And like I do like it, but I guess outside of this sort of endearing quality, like when you take all that away, it's just not good, you know, in my opinion. Okay, so I want to also just say, 'cause there's a few things to say about the Miley Cyrus comparison, 'cause I think it's a valid comparison. So I recall, I recall when Miley Cyrus had her bad girl rebrand. The initial public, and by the way, I'm looking at these pictures. Who is this again, the use of these pictures? - Taylor Momsen. - I like these pictures of Taylor Momsen. Anyways, so I recall when Miley Cyrus had her rebrand, the initial public reaction was also quite sour. And lots of people were not happy with Miley's rebrand and they thought it was too much and trying too hard and. - And it was, it was, but it's laid in this way. - Okay, fair, it was, but at the same time though, like at the same time, I feel like it was ultimately in the long run the right move for Miley to make. And I feel like it helped her legacy more than hurt. - Oh, for sure, it was the right move. I agree. - So I'm just saying maybe JoJo's got some work to do to really kind of refine her image a little bit with this rebrand, but I'll put it this way. I'm excited and I usually don't care that much about JoJo, but she's got my attention. She's on my radar. She put herself on my radar. - It's funny to say that 'cause like, I don't know. For me, she's always been on my radar, but she's entered the punk revolution now, conscious. - Yeah, when you dress up like that, you of course you're gonna be on the punk radar. That was a punk outfit. So yes, I'm a contrarian. I've seen the mean YouTube comments. I'm seeing all the hate she's getting. And I'm saying, just you wait. JoJo's got tricks up her sleeves. Just you wait. - We'll see him. - I have faith. And okay, so let's talk more. Okay, 'cause another thing too, so this song, karma. - Yes. - You might already know this. It was actually originally written for Miley Cyrus. - I did know this. - Yes. So, you know, that's just another kind of-- - Just furthers, though. - Yeah, tipping her hat at the Miley Cyrus reference. - Yes. And the funny thing is what's going on with karma, is basically her debut at first it was being sabotaged by this look, and now it's really being sabotaged by the fact that there is, exists a music video and recording released on streaming and on YouTube of sort of this unknown pop star, named Britt Smith. Like she isn't much of a star, but like she recorded the song. I think they were trying to make her a star and it didn't work out. Anyway, this Britt Smith version is, you know, out there on the interwebs and people found it. And people basically accused Jojo Siwa of stealing the song, plagiarizing word for word. And then, you know, that's when I realized like, oh, so we just, we don't understand how song demos work and song writers work, do we? We don't understand the pop industry, do we? - Honestly, I don't even understand it. I kind of find it insane that there's just like, these, I guess, record labels or whoever, just just sitting on a collection of songs they own. - Oh, it's a huge, I mean, people do this for a living. It's like, like, Bibi Rexha, like, used to do this for years and she wrote songs for like, shiny, the K-pop band. Like, she would write, like, shit for everyone. And only later did she become like more of a star, but it's like, there's a whole industry of song writers and producers making these songs and shopping them around. For example, telephone, like Lady Gaga's telephone, I believe she wrote it, but it was Taylor Swift, I mean, not, oh my god, not Taylor, she's in my mind. But it was originally intended for Britney Spears. It was written by Lady Gaga, I believe, or Lady Gaga was a writer on it. It was intended for Britney Spears, but Lady Gaga ended up recording it herself. So this stuff happens all the time. - I could totally picture Britney Spears singing that song. - Yeah, and I'm, no hate to Britney, I think it is a Gaga song though, like it just is. - It is, so you know what's interesting too, is I feel like, yes, like the rebranding from "Jojo See" was getting poor reception. Definitely a part of it is the look, but I think another part of it too is that the song Karma, it's not the strongest song, I like it, but you know, just-- - It's stuck in its time. - Let's just be real, if there's a song that wasn't strong enough to make it onto a Miley album, and then it was passed on to someone else who wasn't able to make it to start them from the song, it might be a good song, but chances are, it's not gonna be like an amazing song. Like if it was a genuinely amazing song, it would have come out of the vault sooner, and we would have already heard it. So, it's just kind of funny, like literally a Miley Cyrus didn't leave the vault flop song as-- - Yeah, and it kind of did because this Brit Smith person recorded it, and like, it's on iTunes, you know, it's on YouTube, there's a whole music video on YouTube. - Yeah, I am. Yeah, so exactly, like if it was a really great song, we would have heard that version of it. Everyone would have already heard that, or, you know what I mean, if that song was like as good as like "Bad Romance" by Lady Gaga, or something like that, then everyone would have already heard it. - Yeah, the thing is though, I had to say it, but when I listened to JoJo Siwa sing the song, and I watched the music video, and I don't know, like there's something with her voice, like in the lyrics, they just don't feel, like you can tell the song was not written for her, and originally, you can tell the lyrics are like, I wasn't bad girl, I did some bad things, I'm like, you were not a bad girl, you were a girl with like a bow and like sparkly outfits till you were like 17 years old, you know? Like, it just doesn't make sense for her really in my head. Maybe she was a bad girl behind the scenes, but it just, you can tell it was, it's sort of like a generic pop song that was written in, I don't know, like 2010. - Yeah, and isn't the song about like cheating on somebody? - I mean, okay, to be fair though, JoJo Siwa has got been in like some messy celestial relationships. I think actually, Miley Cyrus's sister, they did it actually, maybe. Or someone, yeah, I don't know, the full team, but anyway, like, she was in a series of like, lesbian situation, ship breakup things, and like, I don't know, like, I think JoJo accused someone of cheating at one point a few years ago. Anyway. - So she, I mean, maybe, you know what? Maybe she's the, maybe she did cheat. - Well, she's, you mean JoJo? - Yeah. - I mean, maybe, but I mean, that's not what the song is, it's about the other person. - No, the song was about, you, I think the song is, wait, what, let me look up the layer. I could be wrong. - Same, same. - I thought the song was about the person singing it cheated and is like getting karma for it. - Oh, that makes sense. - You know what I mean? 'Cause like, if she's singing about her being a bad girl, you know what I mean? - Yeah, let me see. - Oh my God, I'm on genius. - Oh, you're right. - Wait, wait, wait, wait, please, let me read this. So I'm on genius and someone in the lyric was, I was a bad girl, I did some bad things. And then I click on the annotation. And the annotation is, she in fact was not a bad girl. She was selling glitter bows at Walmart. - That's what I was saying. - Clearly trying to market to kids. She's trying to distance herself from her old child like image by presenting herself as a dramatic blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Except the difference between Taylor Swift and JoJo Siwa is that no one cares about JoJo. And the other difference is that JoJo somehow found a way to be even corneer without any of the charm. This is literally some Taylor Swift fan in the genius annotations trashing on JoJo Siwa. And for that, I am going to double down and say, I am with JoJo Siwa. - Wow, well, actually Kaya, Kaya, you're right. I ate. for some reason didn't even connect the fact that the speaker is someone who cheated. I hate cheating songs so much. I hate them and I hate one that from the perspective of someone who cheated. I just like do not care. Like stop. Yeah, like that's yeah. No, I agree. It's like it's almost like you're trying to capitalize on your bad behavior and it's just like I know. I know. I know. It's for some make me feel bad for you. Yeah, it's really sad. I like. I like um what'd you say that you only meant well. Well, of course he did. That song is good. That's only good cheating song. And that song is about some is about the person singing it cheated. Yeah, yeah. Hmm. Okay. Well, anyways, so Jojo Siwa. Yeah, I mean, if you're going to be a if you're going to if you're going to come out as like a bad person, I feel like this is like you know what I mean? Like you're going to rebrand yourself as a bad person. You know, I feel like that's the way to do it. I don't know. It just doesn't feel it feels it already is such a fake like classic 2010s pop song that like is super generic. And to hear Jojo Siwa's voice with it, I don't think it works. And I did listen to the Brit Smith version and it's I definitely like it better. It might be because it was recorded around the time that it was written. So it's a little it feels like a little more of the time. Like you know, like it doesn't feel as outdated because it's not being put out right now. You know, I mean, but it's not being sung by a person who's it's an old it feels like an old song when I listen to that versus when I listen to this, it feels like someone's trying to make an old song well like new if that makes sense. I don't know. It feels more natural to me. And the music video is kind of slay. But yeah, the interesting thing is and I and this is where I really feel bad for Jojo. People are accusing her of plagiarizing when she never claimed to have written the song. She never claimed to have written the song. She has she has the rights to it. What she did is is standard practice in the pop music industry. But now in retaliation, people have sort of ganged up on her and now are like making the Brit Smith version trend on the iTunes charts. Like I think I read an article. It was published about like five days ago, I think. And it said that Brit Smith's version was number three on the iTunes charts versus like Jojo C was, which is like around 60. So TikTok and the internet is making this original demo version written by this like obscure song like singer trend. And it is performing better at least on iTunes than Jojo. All because they want to get back at Jojo. To be fair, the song is better when it's sung by this this other singer though. And I have to say like even though I'm I'm pro Jojo, that is a pretty funny way of trolling. I do have to say. It is. It's just like I feel bad. Like I don't know. Like imagine you like you and your team like we're planning for this like whole new era and the song and like you're excited to release it and then everyone just like trolls you and I don't know. Hmm. Well you know there's a few things because like on the one hand like first off that would never happen to me because I'm not gonna just I'm not gonna have like a record label hand me a pre-written song that was already used. Well put yourself in the shoes of Jojo. See what though. Oh man I just you're right. I just felt a lot of I just felt like a lot of empathy for her. You're right. She's only I think she just turned 20 years old. Because you're right because I'm sure you know you're absolutely right. There's a team of people making these decisions for her. And there's a team of people who thought very carefully about we're gonna do a parallel to Miley. We're gonna use an old song that that even is from like a Miley era. Like this is all very calculated. I'm sure. And Jojo probably you know it's just kind of going along with it excited and then it comes and then you know she's getting all those hate and people are causing her incorrectly of plagiarizing or whatever. You're right. I do feel bad for her. And it's you know it's one thing I always wonder with a lot of these pop stars with a lot of these kind of calculated rebrands and stuff like that is how much agency does that individual have how much of this is like their creative artistic vision versus like this is going to generate clicks which is like kind of what determines everyone's lives. I have a feeling it's I have a feeling her agency is minimal or or less let I don't think her agency is as high as more established artists or older artists. Even though those people have teams I feel like she's trying to rebrand right now. This is this is her at her most vulnerable you know I mean she's trying to see if she can make it. If she if she can continue her career. Yeah yeah yeah no you're right because she can't do the you know she can't do the you know milk the boomerang song forever. Exactly. And I like that song. Yeah exactly as much as we want her to. Yeah. But I do have a hot take though I actually like this like I don't know if I like the song like really but the song gets stuck in my head like it is an earworm. I sing it all the time I sing it every day it's stuck in my head. I think I prefer that era of pop music over the contemporary era of pop music. I do too and and and that's why like I understand what what she's going for by like or her rather her team was going for with it. I just don't think it works for JoJo. It just doesn't make sense to me. I think if someone else sing it even besides Britt Smith who has more of that like 2000s nostalgic vibe like maybe in a like even maybe a Kim Petra's or even a Charlie XCX. I don't know I just think it would work more it would work better. How old is JoJo Siwa? She's 20. I think she just turned 20. Okay. Because I was just thinking like I don't even I was like is she even older enough for she even alive back when this era of pop was just saying you know I mean she was but she's quite young I know I know I yeah hmm well hmm I'm rooting for her though I like the song hmm I'm just thinking like if I were in JoJo Siwa's shoes what would I do from here to help rebound or like help pivot because like she did this rebranding you know like she did generate a lot of attention and you know attention is good relevancy is good but I feel like no one's taking her seriously as an artist right now and you know it's it is really funny though like going on JoJo Siwa Spotify and seeing like JoJo Siwa and then JoJo Siwa parentheses kids you know like oh I know I love that yeah it's cute it's funny um I I don't know what she should do I think she's in a tough spot I think that she's kind of just ignoring it right now I for the most part addressing it a little bit I think but mostly just ignoring it which I think is good uh she could go to go away island for a bit you know so like we can forget about all the stuff for a second then come back later I think her team will probably have her do something that's more more stripped back like maybe a Phoebe oh god I was just gonna say Phoebe Bridges like boy genius vibe and I'm like wait she could not do that she could literally not do that because it's just not her but I don't know like uh what what I'm trying to say is like I feel like her team's gonna have her more stripped back more authentic because like they're gonna like respond to this criticism about this is so manufactured so outdated no one believes this I think they're gonna take that and they're gonna be like okay like next time we have to make her like really raw and like herself and you know stripped back I still think she's gonna have a lot of energy but I think it's gonna be a little more uh like she used to be where she you know like her little like she would wear like shorts and like long shorts and her little pixie cut yeah it's a tough one because if she completely you know pivots away from her bad girl rebranding then it's just gonna make this whole thing look even more embarrassing but at the same time if she kind of sticks with it she might box herself into an artistic choice that doesn't isn't very compatible with her and I and I feel like everyone's already just rejected it like but not everyone but like the public is like reject like Jo Jo this is so fun fake. Let's just be yourself, JoJo. You know what she should do? She should release an album of all original songs that is like kind of like new metal like limp biscuit. You know what I mean? So it's like you got those like catchy kind of like hooks. And since it's like metal, it's still kind of like got that edgy vibe. I feel like JoJo see what gives me like kind of like new metal vibes for some reason. Like limp biscuit and like I think so. I don't know. I think they'd be dope. I mean I guess she should do like a bikini kill type type beat and just to come like you know like like rebel girl like you know I'm just like I was like a girl like I was I'm not going to be a girl girl like she has like kind of like a kind of loud voice you know I mean yeah very like loud screaming voice that I think she could she could use that. Exactly and that's what I was thinking with new metal is like a lot of those hooks are just like you know like you know I mean like listening to this song like Boomerang like like that song is like she's like kind of just like shouting like I don't even remember how it goes like it's going right back at you you know what I mean like that sounds like something like limp biscuit would say. It's just one of those days it's going right back at you you know what I mean like it's literally like I feel like that's like the way like I think that's her best bet. Yeah she should do that. See that would feel a lot more authentic and like yes she's okay so she said she wanted to start this new genre called gay pop and like the whole her like her whole rebrand situation I feel like that comment just speaks to how naive she is and I and I don't mean this as a criticism but more so like I don't know I think her age is really evident here because sure there maybe isn't actually going right in your music maybe there is a genre called gay pop but um as far as I mean there there might not be a gay pop genre by name but you know there's a lot of gay pop stars right now like little Nasak's uh uh who else okay she's like who else Tegan Sarah kind of um Taylor Swift. Oh that's not galer um okay so you know there's there's people around you know like she's she's not the only like gay person making pop music right now so I don't know I think it just shows her age and it and it makes me feel about eat bad for her okay but actually hold up though yes it's true that like gay uh like you know gay as and it's like I don't even know what you say like as a there's lots of gay pop that already exists like gay pop already exists yes that's true but even though it's not a like an official genre it doesn't matter like gay pop exists but watching her music video I can't think of any music video that is as explicitly um like lesbian as that music video well I've been around the block and I've seen the I've seen my love like uh Hayley Hayley Kigoko I don't know if you know her she used to make a lot of she's like she's still around but she's like a she was um in the Disney Original Movie Lemonade mouth and she is a lesbian and made like she has like a few albums I don't I she's probably still making music and she is making like she made the song girls like girls and it was super successful and it's like a music video that's very lesbian um like they exist they exist for sure yeah I mean there's definitely for sure but yeah no I know what you're saying though like it is like it's very I don't know like she's JoJo see what I wouldn't call her like indie pop or like yeah she's she's definitely like people know who she is because of her childhood stardom yeah I guess strictly yeah exactly like I think in terms of mainstream pop artists I can't I just can't think of any other mainstream pop artists and there there probably is I'm not saying she did this but I just can't think of any other mainstream pop artist who like has released a music video that's as explicitly like sexually lesbian as that and well yes but this I don't know like the sexual sexuality in that music is a little weird because it's to me like the humping thing is like just kind of like what is that it is weird yeah okay I mean I wasn't sure yeah but anyway like that comment because some people off and again like we got to give her some slack she's young and she's you know she's just she's doing what her team is telling her to say someone said on I don't know what where I saw this but someone said like JoJo see was the Gen Z Ellen and I feel like that's so true yeah yeah I think she's I think she's just quite I think that's a you know a pretty good comparison just because I feel like a big part of JoJo see was appeal is that she's like a personality you know and she's like relatively family friend friendly yes yes yes and I don't know she she's blonde she has that sort of like Ellen energy to her like it makes sort of like giggly and smiley and like kind of oh no and you just know that if JoJo see what had her own show like Ellen JoJo would be like the JoJo show JoJo show JoJo JoJo would be hella abusive to the staff just like Ellen wait why did I feel like I heard an accusation of that or something I could be wrong wait that's literally just slander and I don't I don't know just use networks based on facts always based on facts I believe it just seemed to me Paris normal posts Paris Paris Paris and Normals where I get all my news so that's where I that's where we get our news we just take it directly from Paris normal and we put it on here yeah yeah no like anyway she is the Gen Z Ellen and and again that's great I love it I love it I like that she's a little cringe and I'll say this I did just sit my ass down and listen to it a two-hour Taylor Swift song and song album and felt like one song I'm telling one song but the new JoJo song despite the fact that it's a B side from a decade ago that note that had no chance in hell of getting anywhere that song that the song from JoJo it moved me more than anything on the Taylor Swift album so oh god yeah I'll reload back I just it has a hook that's all I'm saying that's pretty good oh it works you know like as much as we love to hate on on the song like it's get it gets new here it's near worm mm-hmm mm-hmm yeah yeah I guess we'll see I mean is this is this JoJo's first like real song that's not marketed for kids explicitly yes she already was like like I said early in the episode she was already sort of transitioning out of this JoJo Siwa Nickelodeon star like little kid image around around like 2020 2021 she cut her hair she stopped wearing her hair back super tight that hairline poor thing uh she stopped wearing the bows she started dressing a little more like mask lesbian and I mean she came out as lesbian uh yeah no she started dressing a little more masculine you know what I was thinking was you know because I was thinking about this like Ellen comparison yeah you know I think one thing that's that's missing from Gen Z and Gen Alpha that like was such a staple of like Gen X and Boomer entertainment was shows like Ellen like talk shows like Oprah and Ellen or you have a host and like I do see a lot of like viral clips obviously that like Gen Z people share around but I don't think Gen Z really has like like I'm just thinking like what if there was literally a JoJo Siwa show like Ellen and it was just like on like Netflix or something and like you know what I mean because like I guess like what like like Gen Alpha isn't but isn't but are you talking about Gen Alpha or Gen Gen Z Gen Z because I feel like I feel like Ellen and Oprah like we're I don't know like I grew up watching like I mean I didn't watch Ellen that much but yeah like I was watching this like I think they are Gen Z is probably - Yeah, no, no, no, but like, it was on in the background, but it was on in the background for the family. And like, I guess what I'm saying is like, we need someone like that who is like, literally of like the Gen Z age. - I understand. Like, we need like the neck, like Ellen literally is retired, you know what I mean? Like, we need like. - Well, Ellen, Ellen, like as a new, as a supreme face, oh my God. As a supreme, as a supreme rises the old one fades away. That's a quote from a American Horror Story Coven. So it's like a meme, but, you know, like, Ellen had her downfall because of her toxic behavior on the Ellen show and various things. - But I guess I'm just concerned because I feel like this format of a show where you have a family, friendly talk show host who's on your, who's like in the living room all the time. I just feel like it's just not compatible with modern society now where we're all like on our phones and tablets in our own separate rooms. And it's been replaced with like, I guess maybe like Twitch streamers are like TikTokers who kind of in a way fill that void. It's like some digital. - Podcasters. - Yeah, podcasters is like, oh my goodness gracious. But yeah, no, it's all right. It's just, I don't know, like, I'm just like, what if Jojo Siwa, like literally just had a clone of the Ellen show? And I don't know. Like, it probably wouldn't go on cable 'cause I don't know who goes who watches cable anymore. Like, could shows like that possibly even exist on like Netflix and Hulu? Or are those, is that format just completely dead because of like. - I mean, they've tried. I think they have tried to make more Gen Z type talk shows. But again, like, I just don't know if they work. - It might be dead. - TikTok is fried their brains, now they can only watch short form like podcast clips on TikTok. - I wanna watch, yeah. Oh God, yeah. Oh, and also, is it, aren't they like bringing back the. - Like, America's funniest home videos, like they're doing a reboot of that or something too? - Oh, that would be awesome, they should. - I think they're doing it. And it's funny 'cause it's like that show died because it just like, it just became irrelevant with like YouTube and like just everyone has access. And then they're like, well, you know what? Now there's just like, so much content on the internet. I think it'd be useful to bring this show back so we can have someone curate the funny videos again. - True, there needs to be, so I need to curate like a nice little compilation. That's not algorithm driven. Hmm. Hmm. I just, I really feel like so many, so much of our culture and our society and our economy is just so like built around, these different algorithms and like obviously that's not like a new or novel thought. Everyone knows that. It's just, but I just feel like whenever. You know, every time we talk about anything regarding any sort of cultural item, like we kind of peel it back, peel it back, peel it back. And then like ultimately, it really feels like it just always comes down to, it has to be this way instead of that way because that's how things work nowadays on the internet, even though maybe, you know, I don't know if it's like an nostalgia. Maybe the old talk show situation of like Ellen and Oprah and all the other talk show hosts. Maybe that wasn't necessarily anybody. - I mean, Ellen was like, let's be real. Ellen was never good. Yeah, but that's part of the appeal. But then again, there's like bad stuff on TikTok too though, like. Yeah, but I feel like there's, maybe it's not so much about the show and the content on the screen. Maybe it's just more so like, I associate Ellen on the TV. And I associate the TV in the living room and I associate like people together in the living room. - Do you have fond memories of watching Ellen? - I have fond memories of Ellen being, I have fond memories where Ellen just happens to be on the background, and on the background, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know, maybe this is like an nostalgia. Like, I don't want to like, you know, say like, "Oh, we think there's so much better back days." - I had no idea we were in a nostalgic about Ellen. - Look, it's very hard for me to, it's very hard for me to, to gauge. 'Cause like, I never really liked Ellen. But like, I feel like it's one of those things where it's like, you kind of are, like, it's good to be forced to be exposed to like wholesome like dancing to cringe music. Like, there's like literally like cringed dancing. - It's just kind of, it's just TikTok. Think about it. - I'm thinking about it. I don't know. - Well, I mean, the joke is, meaning it's just like, TikTok is literally like, dancing videos. Or not so much as, not as much anymore. - TikTok is out-competed, Ellen, because everything Ellen can do, some random person on TikTok can do. - Way better. - 10 times more cringe. - But way better at the same time. - And also way better. Whatever, pick your poison. Do you want something better? You can get it. You want something more cringe. You can get it. TikTok has everything, guys. - And also TikTok might be banned, speaking of news. - You know what we need is, we need to just, we need to just have families hook up their phones to their like TVs. They're like smart TVs. And then just stream TikTok like it's a, like a TV show. I, you know, I guess another thing is like, I actually don't really know what like, the life of a family looks like nowadays. - That's true. Like, maybe they're, like, I don't know. I just, I just, like, I remember being when I was living back like with my family, like, people in the living room with the TV on all the time. - I mean, that's what it's like now, but I'm an adult, you know? Like, like, are you seeing like, what is it like for Gen Alpha around the house? - Yes, yeah, that's what, like, that is what I'm very curious about. That's what I'm very curious about. - It's just Coco Mellon on the TV. - I guess so. I guess Coco Mellon is the new Ellen. - The Coco Mellon baby looks like Ellen. I really feel like Coco Mellon and Ellen are literally the exact same in my mind. - They're Coco Mellons, the Ellen prequel. - Okay, maybe I'm gonna look at that. All right, so, oh, whoa, oh, wait, okay. - Yeah, yeah. - So, Gen Alpha doesn't-- - I wanted a better, I wanted a better reaction. I'm like-- - No, that was a good one. It just took a second to hit. That's how clever the joke was. I had to, like, play with it for a second in my brain. - Oh, right, right. - No, no, it was good. But, okay, so, okay, so maybe this, maybe Gen Z didn't really have their generations, Ellen, but Gen Alpha has Coco Mellon, so we're good. So, Gen Alpha's good. - What did, what did Gen Z have? 'Cause there was an, Ellen was on in the background. - Gen Z just had to get the scraps of what Gen X and the millennials were having. - That's, yeah. - And then I think Gen Alpha's good-- - They're on YouTube, watching, like, nugget and a biscuit. That's what, that was their Ellen. I just feel like everything's so doom and gloom, including this podcast sometimes with, like, oh, the digital world. Maybe, you know what, maybe Gen Alpha is on a really good track, 'cause they've got Coco Mellon. - We did a, we did a Gen Alpha episode, the other, not the other days, like, probably a few months ago. And I think it's one of our best episodes. We talk about, like, Gen Alpha, the concerns and, like, the positives and, you know, I don't know, like, again, like, this is a generation that has grown up, grown up with mobile technology. And, like, way better phones and way better social media. Like, in terms of quality and, like, effectiveness and, like, widespread usage. Like, and they're equipped with the tool. Like, these are people who learn how to use, like, 3D animation software, like 12 years old. If they're, unless they're watching Coco Mellon. But, like, again, Gen Alpha has an internet. - They're learning how to animate Coco Mellon. (laughing) - Whoa, I didn't even think of that. - They're literally 3D animating Coco Mellon at seven years old. They're pirating, they're pirating animations software so they can animate their own Coco Mellon episodes. - Think about it. Scabody toilet. - Yeah. - What are they using again? What's the application? - Blender? - No, no, no, no. Aren't they using, like, a gaming thing to do it? - Oh, GMOD? - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - Yes. - Yes. - Okay. - But isn't that, like, a millennial, or, like, an older Gen Z thing? - Yes, and this is, yeah. And this is something I think about a lot. Um, is that like, I just, you're, are you a millennial or a Gen Z, you're on the cusp? I am, I am technically millennial, but if I was born like six months later or something, I'd be a Gen Z. So so it's like, you're, yeah, millennials had it better. I'm sorry, but millennials had it better. It's true. It's true. Nickelodeon in the 90s was epic. And also we had my space and, you're getting millennial with it. Oh my god. Yeah. So I'm honestly having to think about it. I've been thinking about it hard. I think I'm, I think I, I think I resonate more with the millennial culture, all things considered. That's okay. I love you anyway. And I like millennials. I go along with them pretty well. I hope so. Yeah. Yeah, me too. I don't know why, but I'm at a Gen Z right now. Why? I don't know why. I just am. Was it something I said? No, no, you're good. You're one of the good ones. Thank you. I think I just seeing a lot of a junk on, on X. Oh, yeah. It's trolling me right now. Good point. Yeah. So JoJo, see why you are the Messiah of your tech. She you are the Messiah of Gen Z, but your fan base is probably going to be Gen Alpha. And there are no words. I really, whenever we do any of these episodes about when we talk about the different cultural outputs of generations and stuff like that, it kind of like spirals me into like, I can't like, I just like having like an existential crisis, but I'm also like, I think I'm like having like, I just need to sit down and write like a, like, Das Kapital in the 20, 22nd century. That's what that's where my brain's at right now. Damn. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I like talking about generational differences. Fun. Like with my limited knowledge, you know. Okay. So if you, I think it's time for us to go into the recommendations. Oh, that's right. Okay. You go on. Oh, okay. I always forget. Oh, actually, no, I actually do have a recommendation. This is a new-ish segment, guys. So I think I think every time we do this as segment, it's just we're going to, I'm going to forget till the end. I'm going to pull it out of the thin air. It's kind of fun. I forgot to. So. Okay. So my, no, my recommendation is the new movie Civil War. Oh, yeah. Because I watched it. I really liked it. And what I liked about it was it's just a really, really entertaining, kind of just maybe, maybe dare I say generic. It's just a really entertaining, kind of generic, dystopian thriller that take, that happens to take place in America. And it's like really, really, really fun to watch. Like it's just so, it's just so well made like the, the attention to detail, the, the military combat stuff. And it is great. And you know, it actually, it's interesting because it's about a Civil War in the United States. And it does not get bogged down in political stuff at all. Like they actually don't even talk about like the context of why there's a war, really, they just are focused on the like the, the, the, the plot. And just, you know, these, the journalists going to DC to try to talk to the president. It's like a really, just a good movie. And, you know, and obviously if you kind of squint at it and think about it, you can maybe pick a parse out what the political implications are, you know, the very fact that a movie about a Civil War is being made right now, a Civil War in America is being made right now. But it's great. It doesn't get bogged down in any politics stuff at all. So people might want that. I personally, you know, I feel like I just wanted a good, a damn good movie that was like fun. And it was. And the movie also has suicide as it not, not like not like in the movie, but like the band suicide, which is a really dope band. And they also have silver apples, which is like another really sick band. So they've got like really cool, like experimental rock and like art rock soundtrack, which also is like, damn, they really, they really, they really thought they did something. They really did something. They did something. They didn't think they did. All right. Well, I'm going to recommend that obvious if you've been, yeah, everyone knows this, but I watched, I finally watched Evangelion and I'm probably everyone listening to this is already watched it, but that's my recommendation, especially the end of Evangelion, the movie, the end of Evangelion. It's really amazing. I can't believe it's taken me so long to finally, you know, watch it because I've been an anime fan since I was a really little girl. But you know, I'm glad I watched it now because I don't think I, I don't think my brain would have been ready for it before, before now. And yeah, it's great. It's a little weird sometimes because it gets a little pervy, but other than that, it's, it's amazing. And I love the religious iconography and themes and biblical motifs and the themes and music and animation is, it gets super abstract and cool and experimental. It's, yeah, I mean, it's definitely a masterpiece. I'm just shocked it took me so long to watch it. Yes, yes, good choice. I saw it too. I liked a lot. Thank you, baby. But you know, actually a lot, it's, yeah, it's, it's a good one. It's kind of, I feel like it's like, you know, like, you know, there was Homer's Odyssey, and there was Dante's Inferno, and then there's our Neon Genesis, our generation. No, that's, no, that's millennial. Actually, no, no, no, no, no, I mean, I'm talking about the whole, not even about the gen, I'm talking about the whole day I'm century. Like, I'm talking about like, this is some, this is a work of art that's going down for like centuries. Someone called it a, someone called it a metaphysical postmodern, postmodernist retelling of the Genesis myth, and like, like, applied to like, are like modern anxieties, and I feel like that's a really good way to think about it. Oh, I mean, and I'll just genesis that there's also like other parts of the Bible. I don't know, it's not like 100% biblical, but it's very like rooted in like Abrahamic, like, Jewish mysticism and stuff like that. It's really cool. I really relate to Shinji. Like, I've honestly, like, he's, I don't usually relate to male characters, but I really relate to him. Not, I don't relate to the hospital scene. That was gonna be my next question. I knew, I knew. I don't relate to that scene, but I relate to his like, like, his challenge is like, he, he does things for praise. He does things for like others to like express that like, they care about him and that they like, that he's needed from other people, and that's, and that should not be driving your motivations. And he, you know, he's convinced that that's like, like, he doesn't have like any self worth, like, worth. He's like driven by other people's image, like, what other people think of him, and he's doing everything for that, like, validation from other people, and he's kind of a coward, and he's kind of like afraid to do anything, or like, he's always apologizing, he's always doing what other people say and backing down because he thinks it's easier. And I really relate to that. And it's like, it's, it's definitely like, challenged me to think about my behavior. Hmm. Cool. Um, I ready. Well, great, great. I was grappling with the fact that as a girlfriend, it relates to the shingy from Killian. Yeah, I gotta let that sink in. I gotta think about the implications of that. Yeah, yeah, fair. Well, thank you for all the listeners. Thank you, guys. Thanks for the new Patreon subs. Yeah, maybe someday we could do a Patreon episode on Neon Genesis. We should. Okay. Well, let's look into it already folks. Thanks for listening to base news network, review our stuff, give it a review, rate it five stars on the apps, thank you. And subscribe to our Patreon if you really like it, and I will talk to all of you later. Bye. This is the work. Bye bye. Bye bye.