John Woo: An Empire Podcast Interview Special

[Music] Hello, Paul. I'm Chris Huett and welcome to a truly special Empire podcast interview special. I still recall distinctly the first time I was introduced to the work of John Wu. I was in the kitchen. I'm a friend Ross's house in Bandbridge. Caledown Northern Ireland. Where a couple of us had gathered to watch a film called Hardboiled based on a recommendation in of all places Empire magazine. I can't remember if it was the review by Mark Solesbury. They called it more exciting than it doesn't die hard and also had a cracking line that said that Wu directed as if he'd been born with a camera in one hand and a rocket launcher in the other. But either way, it was a glowing recommendation that we took. And we, as nascent action junkies, got the phs. Yes, folks, phs. That's how fucking old I am and put it on a crappy little portable TV in Ross's kitchen and life was never the same. Again, as we watched Chow Yun Fat and Tony Lung blew away bad guys galore. John Wu blew my mind. A couple of years later, I was studying film at university and wrote my dissertation on John Wu and the Hong Kong action cinema. Never might what Mark I got. That's none of your beeswax. But a show as the Empire's Wu's work had had on me as I foreratiously hunted down his movies and then moved on to his contemporaries, the likes of Ringo Lam and Choi Hark. A couple of years after that, I was being interviewed for a junior writer position at Empire and was asked what upcoming movie I would put on the cover. I replied without hesitation, John Wu's Wind Talkers. Which really wasn't the kind of movie that would wind up on the cover of Empire, but they gave me the job. Anyway, those fools, they've had years to regret it. And then just the other day, a number of years after that job interview, a number of years after Ross's kitchen, I won't say exactly how long but you can work it out. I found myself in an LA office suite surrounded by posters of John Wu's movies, Hardboiled, The Killer, A Better Tomorrow, bulletin' ahead and interestingly, a massive poster for Sean Pierre, Melville's The Circle Rooge and more pertinently, sitting on a sofa three feet away from me was John Wu. The father of the modern-day action movie whose work in Hong Kong defined the heroic bloodshed genre turned Chaoyeon fat into the coolest leading man on the planet and then caught the eye of Hollywood, where he went on to make films like Hard Target, Broken Arrow, Face Off, Mission Impossible 2, and Yes, Wind Talkers. Since then, Wu has returned to China to make more movies like his period epic red cliff and come back to Hollywood to direct the likes of Silent Night and a remake of his own classic The Killer. And now he and his movies, principally the Hong Kong action movies he made before the move to the States in the early 90s, but also with a couple of Hollywood efforts and both parts are red cliff thrown into the mix for good measure, are the subject of a brand new season currently running at the BFI South Bank in London entitled Bullets and Brotherhood, The Films of John Wu. And so, when I found myself in Los Angeles last week, I was delighted when Mr Wu agreed to sit down with me for a good old chunk of time to talk about his movies and his approach to movie making. We don't really talk much about the Hollywood era if at all in this conversation, instead be very much focused on his Hong Kong era and the action movies he made over there. And I hope that you will enjoy it. Wu is now nearly 80 years old, but he can still talk with the best of them. He's still hoping to make a movie with Nicholas Cage very, very soon. I will say in this interview, sometimes he would become so animated that he would hold a mic away from his face. So now and again, he may become quite faint and distant, but hopefully those bits will still be audible. This was a joy. A dream come true to talk to the man who, in my opinion, is the greatest action director of all time about some of the greatest action movies of all time. Enjoy. We are delighted to be joined on the Emperor podcast by a legendary director who is currently enjoying a BFI season dedicated to him and his movies. The great John Wu, how are you sir? I'm so grateful and I'm really excited about it and then I would show a me, up to 37 years and movie we believe that we believe that again, but still got so much of great support from everywhere. I totally shock because I'm so amazing about the people that they still remember the film and love the film and still got so much at the same time, at the same time, about the Hong Kong film. And about me, so I feel I'm lucky. I'm lucky. I'm lucky to have a chance to make the movie and then to get the worldwide release and also had to make so many people happy. Yes. I just do grateful. I'm grateful. We should say first of all, we're not in London right now, you and I, we're in your incredible office in Los Angeles, which is surrounded with posters from your movies, many of which are playing in London at the BFI. Did you try to get over to London, but I imagine you're your your very busy man. So yeah, I tried to, but unfortunately, I got so much work to do in here and because I really love, you know, my biggest wish is to make a movie in England. Really? I really love England and I especially love the work with their English actor and the writer. So I always have really admired the English actor. They have very well educated about film, about, you know, everything. And then, and I like the way they, they speaking in line, you know, this almost, no matter what kind of movie I watch, you know, but I'm listening what they're saying. I just feel like I'm listening to a poem. You know, the, the one, so the crystal, crystal clear. And then, and, and a lot of emotion, you know. So, and, and, and, and also make you feel, you know, they are very clever. You know, not, not, so, and, and, and, you know, usually I like a quiet movie. Yeah. But for, for, even a movie, I like to, then to have a lot of dialogue because I like to listen to what they're saying. So, you, I mean, feel is that, so the movie is really about a culture. Yes. I'm on a culture and a, and a real human nature. Yes. So, there's, you only could find from the English movie. So you could make silent night with a English actor because you'd have them talking all the time. Well, we have a problem, the cast, for the, for the film, we need to try to figure it out, we'll get over the English actor, but, you know, unfortunately, there are not much actor who like the idea, you know, because, because they're, they're not dialogue, you know. And, you know, it's basically in Hollywood, you know, the actors need a lot of dialogue. But Buster Keaton had no dialogue. It's a great challenge for an actor, but yeah, you're right, because a lot of your movies are, are so balletic and they're so operatic. And, yeah, of course, there's dialogue in things like the killer and hard boiled. But it's also about movement and body language, and saying a lot without saying anything. So is that something that you were always drawn to as a director, even back when you first started out, really, with these, with action movies? Yeah, there's, you know, my slide, you know, and maybe, when I was a child, I got I have a great difficulty for speaking. I had to pronounce in any word or try to speak out of good sentences to make it a people understand, to make it a people understood what I'm seeing, what I'm thinking. So that's what I have been trained to not seeing anything and using my eyes to look, to observe, to look at the people, look at what happened, you know, what happened, you know, around me, you know, and then I would look at the beautiful landscape or the movie or you know, so that's why I had a drawing me into, you know, especially like everything about visual. You know, I got so, so many things, you know, always keeping my mind. So that's why I always like to quite move around with the thing and I allow me to see, you know, what was the good thing in the whole frame, you know. So when I walk on the street and when I look at the window, you know, they always look like a painting to my thing. So that's how I, and so that's why when I grew up a little big, you know, then I joined the protest stage, you know, play, you know. And because I try to, you know, train myself, you know, I can speak much better. So I started as an actor on stage at whatever's high school. So part of the training. And then I don't speak much about whatever I wanted to speak, it could be necessary. So that's why I'm watching a movie. I like more of visual and less dialogue, you know. I love that you say you love quiet movies. Because your movies are sometimes the opposite of quiet. I mean, there's a lot going on. But anyway, you were almost not an accidental action filmmaker, but that's not how you started off. You didn't start off as an action director. That was something that happened later on. Well, actually, when I was a kid, you know, I wanted to be my first visitor was one of, I wanted to be a minister. I'm a Christian, you know, I really, you know, like a minister in the church, you know. But somehow in the after I got involved with art, the education, my mind, you know, I think art is so fascinating. You know, I had, you know, fulfilled my, you know, spirit and, you know, an art work in my show much fresher about looking at art, and all kind of the painting and great performers of great movies, you know, that made me change the chain by my, you know. Is that one of the reasons why the end of the killer takes place in the church? Is that? Yeah, because the end of the church to me was a, it's really holy place to me. It's like heaven. You know, and then when I, when I was a kid, I used to be a part of the game. Yeah, I was a kid. I kind of almost got a fight with the fighting with the game every day. I was a little, because of the, the old one, if you join them. So, and every morning when I came up, you know, I kind of grabbed something like a weapon to protect myself. And then I knew when I went out to the alley, I would cut in, ambush. Oh wow, okay. So, and then I got a fight back, every month. I, I, I, I just got beating my, and also, and then when I came home, I was going to bloody face, yeah, bloody face. So, and then whenever I got beat up, I, I, I used to run into a church nearby. And then the church, yeah, maybe you'll say, gives you solace. Yeah, yeah. And then I, I can stay there, do something, sometimes do something, or something, doing nothing, and just sit there looking at the cross, the holy cross, and make me feel peace, and feel safe. So, I, I love the church, you know, and then when I was in high school, I even, hoping the church to draw the, the poster, you know, for, for every Sunday's, you know, topic, you know. Yes. So, and then they, I love the church. I think it's just like heaven, it's wonderful for these. So, but sometimes I got, booed by the, by the evil, you know, and then when, when the church being a church, it kind of, yes, symbolic, it's a, those evil thing or evil people, you know, they, they, damage the holy things. Yes. So, that's that's why it's make our hero, to favor them. Yes. So, this, it got some meaning there, you know, because I, I think we really need to, well protect the church. So, whenever the kids know the church and the theater, the two things, I really love you know, so whenever I get called in trouble, either when in the church or on the theater. Wow, both made you feel safe. Yeah, yeah. You see, if you are, I'm very happy, you know, and I feel very happy, you know, whenever it's a, even though we are very poor, but you know, all time, you know, the, the other time I can bring in the little kids into the theater, but I know that the tickets, you know, is for free. What? Yeah, so, everything, we have a bunch of poor kids, you know, it's an old-cycle theater, the backing, some, I don't know, people, please be, just say that I'm your son and you bring me into the theater and then I, I will, I will find a way to watch movies. So, usually the good heart of the people, we would like to, you know, bring me in or some other kid, you know, take it into the theater and watch. And then we are sneaking underneath the chair, underneath the chair, because the, the conductor, you know, the person who was checking the tickets, just, yeah, I don't know, and then they find out this, you know, they can't, you know, what, kick you out? Yeah, girl, and the, kick you out, or beating up you. Oh, my God. Okay. the one and one, I got beat up whatever, I woke up to the stair and then I had to find out, you know, that I was going to look like the man's son. And then he came me a punch on the face, and then of course I'm going to be falling off the ladder. for the stair and then to the ground. I got bleeding on my mouth and then but I still going outside to the sand door. I'll continue to watch your movie for the crack. What movie was it you remember? I don't like western. All the time you know every in the morning and the night time they were showing the Chinese language can only be thrown and then everything you know 530s have a special screening for the foreign film. Sometimes they say the old musical against the film or western movies western cartoon. And these all had an impact on you. They all they all were in your brain and knocking around. Yeah I assume so amazing. I love a lot of western and especially a lot of musical. Yes. The musical my first musical was a visual visual art with a Judy Gallen you know. So I was so amazed how many musicals it looked so beautiful. When I was in the movie to let me to forget what I had been through in real life. I forgot all the beating. I forgot all the bleeding as well. And I made me feel you know they always make me feel you know they are always the good people some good people in the world. The world is not that bad. When I was raising the slums really dark and dirty in the place you know you can hardly see and you could sunlight and even there was no trees around. So only people you know like all the poor people you know poor families and stick together. Yes. Anyway so that I do I find a movie you know I really got a lot of joy to watch my watching movies. And now over the years you will have brought that same joy to people watching your movies. I remember how I felt watching hard boiled for the first time and how it I'd never seen anything like it you know it absolutely accelerated me. And then I went back and I watched your other movies. I watched things like the killer and a better tomorrow one and two and bullet in the head and you know and I was just so blowing away by what you were doing. When did you become aware that you were having the same effect on people but obviously with these action movies as filmmakers you grew up with you grew up watching had the same effect on you. Why was making my movie like it'd be like tomorrow the killer you know I've never know how the audience going to react to it. And then I just I said make my film you know and then I the only thing is I think I'm living with the audience and I'm working with the audience. If there's something I'd like and then there's something I feel good you know I think at the audience we'll feel the same way. So and then and by the other hand I'm a very romantic guy you know I love all kinds of beauty. I always wanted to to make some beautiful people a beautiful moment a beautiful emotion beautiful meaning of life you know and then put it into the film. And I think there's a beautiful mean. So I mean it's the beautiful movie you know I mean so and by the mean times I must say I greatly really make an inference from the rest of the movie the movie from the rest you know like the French New Wave my great great idol and they would listen you know and and a bunch of English director and old time Hollywood movies and and a lot of European films you know like I'm a permanent you know I so I close up with that you know and then I I think I even make a movie as beautiful as they are you know that we'll be fantastic you know but there was only a dream you know and then of course you know and then later I found since I loved dancing so much yeah I loved doing so much so I think I think I think an action movie also can make it look beautiful yeah so since I got so much good info from my almost the church in store brothers you know I and he had maybe learned a lot about the action the kung fu martial art you know and then and then the other thing was something I learned about you know from John change is that he really loved his actress and he know and I had to find a way to make them look great and make them you know look more like a hero you know so he would decide anything just for the action so then I want to learn from him so when I'm directing my own movie I just you know do what he did before I love my director I give him a lot of great respect and I find my duty is I got to try many way to make my actor look great you succeeded yeah he's extraordinarily cool it's Chaoyeon fat when did you when did you first meet him and when did you know that he would be your leading man well you know I like I he's a long it was a long story in 1985 when I've kind of supported for mature you know my very good friend he supports me to make a better model and then that they were my first gangster movie you know and then and then we had the same thing and we wanted to make this gangster movie for the family not for not for the action audience yes okay so it means that we want to make it a very high class you know the we choose to build it a very spiritual you know the thing against the movie so I so this is why I was suggesting to use the real actor okay the real actor to do the action film yeah like so in front and then I fucked up and thought he was a really popular on TV you know but not on TV students but not in the movie in in even though he had you know you know I work on some movie but your flat you know and he had kind of nickname for the box office of hoisin but in my mind you know he said a great actor you know I think I think I just like Alan the long and can take a course you know they look so much elegant and so the so charming and so beautiful you know so so handsome But they can, so when they did some action and he looked so, so classy. So I think what I see when I saw Thorene Fern, and he also have a similar quality. And he's a great actor and he's not a fighter. He had never learned any kung fu, he had never learned. And he said to me, he never, he even never punch a guy. So he's a, he's a gentleman. So I think that's great, because I always want my hero, who is more, he looked like, he had a style, a pretty much like Gary Grayens. Yes. And then, so that's why I used him for a professional model, as one of the main characters, as a killer. But he, you know, I also make him, you know, dress nice, you know, more, pretty much like a, anything long. So, and then that might be interesting. Using a real actor to action scene, you know, maybe, you know, we'll make the action sequence look more like a class. So, and then, and you know, more of an upper level, you know, so. So, and then he did very good, and then I said, you know, and then I found, you know, and then when we were together, I saw him holding a gun, no, I said, I said, you just want a genius, for some movie, you know, he's holding a gun in 30 years, he only can let this, and then, so what he, a whole, a gun of fire, you know, sometimes it looked like, you know, a genius, for, said, I look like a male Gibson. Anyway, but the good thing about using show and fan, he got the both great quality of acting and action. Yeah. So, you taught him how to use a, to hold a gun in both hands as well, because that's, that's a trademark as a John Wood, John Patrick. Yeah, but for the first beginning, when you're using one gun, you know, because I, when I talked to the pro sky, you know, in my movie, a real hero never used a machine gun, because the machine gun was so easy, even though there were over 10 people, you know, 10 enemies, you know, in the room, you just, you know, prejudice triggering, you know, to the more, I think there's no hero. And then I was suggesting to our hero only using one handgun, just like an ancient knight using a sword. Yes. And then, and using his frame, when he threw the action, you know, he, he knew how to do it, and when he threw the guy, he threw the guy so precisely. But, and then I said, you know, but it's not using one kind of handle for the guy in a room, I think, is hard to believe. It's hard to make an audience believe he could do it with one gun. And by the meantime, I'm so care about rhythm. Yeah, especially the music rhythm. So when I, when I'm thinking of deciding an action sequence, I would listen, I like to listen in some kind of music in my mind, you know, so I said, is there any gun can fire, that doesn't stop continuing firing, you know, and then he, they saw me the gun of birth, you know, it's from Switzerland. Because, you know, those guys had read, read all the props gun from England. And then we were the first time. So they saw me at the same kind of gun, and then when they saw me the birth, the brother can load either a bullet or a 14 bullet, you know, so you can fire, continue firing, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, but I said, even though I don't want him to use the machine gun, but I want him to fire to cut the rhythm like a drum beat. I get, you know, it's not stop. I said, one gun is done, you know, how about try two? And then the guy showed me, oh, that's interesting. And then they saw me the fire tool gun, but you got as, you know, one by one, you could fire at the same time, because the frame is so strong. You know, and you heard a finger. So, and then it fires for me. And then when they fire, go fire the further and then I take my new lip, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that's good rhythm, you know. And, and the very smart. So, so I let the tone for the using two gun. Wow. And then the parliament has since he's a clever man. He is a, so he's a clever enough to using four guns here, you know, to set the two gun outside of the door, in case he needed. And then the first, then he used the first two gun first and then after the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, and then by the step I was in, we have another gun. So, I think we're the idea. I've been working, thinking of the scene to, to, to decide it is the scene for three weeks. Wow. I was so glad, you know, in that the, yeah, it, it worked well. You know, when the audience first time she did it, they were shocked. You obviously, you got on so well with Cheon Young Fat, you guys worked together a lot of times. Of course, you killed him off a whole bunch, John. I mean, you killed him in a lot of movies as well. Why was that part of the heroic bloodshed tradition that the hero had to die in a lot of your movies, not all of them, obviously, but in a lot. Well, there are two things when they're for the Chinese philosophy, you know, I said, you know, as a man got a spirit of security. He could be willing to die for a friend or for a country or for the one he loved, you know, for the, for the justice, you know, whatever, you know. So that is a quantify, you know, and he feel, you know, that's the, you know, the, the real night where we're going to choose to do it and by the meantime, I also have, you know, greatly influenced from I didn't deal with the movie. Yes. Yeah, almost in every movie he died in the time. Yeah. Yes. Because why was it looking at the film? I didn't see the film. I saw I didn't deal on. Of course. In front of me. Yes. Actually, he's doing fair. But I saw. I didn't know. And all I can't take a corner in the city. I really also have a great idea of mine. And, you know, so that's how I work out. That's how I got the influence from you know. So when I try to explain about the true spirit of a ciphery in America is hard to, I got a hard time to explain to them. You know, they kind of spirit. I really like. And they kind of movie I really like to make you know so that's why I couldn't get any the same kind of a script in here. When you started off making action movies Joyhawk was a big mentor for you at the time. You came up around the same time as directors like Ringo Lam as well. The heroic bloodshed genre was was huge at the time. How aware were you of it? Did you discuss other directors? That was the tradition in Hong Kong action cinema at the time. As well as obviously the philosophy we were talking about. No, because there were non-versus people who later talked to me. Okay. Because at the time the Hong Kong movie was the quality was so popular. And then I always said to them that this kind of movie it doesn't work to make it. I mean they kind of increasingly excessively an over-act drama. I think this kind of movie is not for long. Even though you make a lot of money but you know, but another year the body was totally forgotten. The movie was widely making. But the people didn't like to listen to me. I said, "A movie is to be like Lord's Word." I said, "Oh, you have to turn me in." "400 bro, you know, or again half." So they thought I was a bush. So they didn't listen to me. So I didn't ever change to be a thought of them. But in the meantime I think differently from the others. So how do you get into friends? My only friend is Tuk Hauk. Oh really? Tuk Hauk. Tuk Hauk. We can talk a lot of things. He also gave me a lot of help to solve any problem. And actually he also very good at dialogue as well. So he both liked human story but also liked to make a movie for the bigger audience. So he was happy to accept it and then feel it. So but it means I would like to use art form to make an action movie. I think some people might be surprised to learn that you essentially improvised a lot of your action sequences so you would put your weight to get on set and then you would design the action sequence based on the set that you had or based on the location you had which given how intricate a lot of your action sequences are is mind blowing. So how did you do that? How did you? I don't know. Maybe I tried to do my instinct. I was just the first thing. When I was working with a student at the same time as a killer and I feel myself as a killer. And I walked like a killer and I lived like a killer. So when I went home and my wife and my kid didn't know how to handle me and didn't know how to know how to talk to me. You were a method director? Yeah. Yeah. You can see that. And so when I come into the set and usually in the screen I will be like, "There's a two or three movies. I even started with the script because on the whole movie I would be on my hand." And then we only got a simple outline for the crew. And the financial course. So I used to think very fast and because this is very fast. I know there's something in my mind. There's some kind of action in my mind. So when I go in the location, you will see a long table. And I know how to use the table. Okay, baby. I'll hear a live up from the other end. Live up in the air and the shooting. Two guys are there and then he learned the table and flipped you to the other side and then continue shooting another guy. Then I would do it by myself. I'd do it by myself first. You know, I used to think I was more stable and live up. No. Holding two tummy guns and then rolling on the ground and then I was the same call. And then I put the two guys behind me. Up to the two guy in front of me and then I turned to kill another guy. If I feel good, you know, thank you. According to the whole field, they all feel good. And I think our actor will feel good. Wow. That's how I work. And probably mean that I left the engine. Yes. I was pretty good dancer. And especially Chacha. So, I know, so that's why I was able to actually see more like a dance. So when I'm on the stage, I just feel like I'm making a dancing sequence instead of a fighting scene. So, anyway, and by the mean time, I'm a good actor. Yes. So I acted and shooting at the same time. So every action piece and camera speed, you know, which camera, you know, almost being a 50 frame or 100 or not is the frame, you know, it's a different angle. And all the camera angle were connected, not just the suitable for reference or something like that. You know, it's suitable for real when you jump over this camera and the other camera can catch your head closer and then bring him into a shooting the gun and then land on the ground and then we got another camera on the ground. So that's how I work. And by the mean times, since I like a European film so much, you know, so what I remember when I'm shooting the killer, in the beginning, we got no script, no story. I just want to make a move with homage to John V. Mell, who was a lesson right. So and then all of a sudden, I got the idea. The cub, you know, also become the killer, you know, so I think, you know, the cub, you know, what to catch the killer, you know, and he had to become him, you know, and he had to understand him. So then almost and then I got one shot in my mind, one side of my mind is the camera outside the window and the window with a lot of talk glass with so many frames, you know, and then the camera put outside and then story from left to right and then his frame kind of first, the first frame, we saw the killer sitting there and smoking and thinking. And then when the camera crossing to the second frame, and then And we change the cup, sitting in the same position, and doing the same thing, smoking and thinking. But like they are thinking each other, and then through the third frame, we come back to the killer again, and then the cup. So just this one idea, the one song, this time we build, this kind of one song, and nobody knows what's going on, why are we going to switch it? I just asked the producer, "Okay, find me in a friend's house in Hong Kong, find me in a friend's house in a home window." And then there were a lot of, you know, a frame, you know, and then they find for months, you know, they couldn't find one. So I said, "I need to, I got to, because I got to one song, this is the only song for the home movie, it's a key song for the movie." And then I started writing a story, start from this song. From that one song. Yeah. And then from that one song. And then after a month, the producer came up to me and said, "John, we couldn't find a house. This is Hong Kong, no friends." So no friends, so disappointed. It's an English, a colony, an English house, and look pretty much to the friends' house. Anyway, last thing we found, a very old building, you know, to get the kind of songs, so we got the song. So that's how I work, sometimes, you know, I saw what I feel, you know, I saw what I all of a sudden, there's something coming up in my mind that they never saw it. You know, so, you know, I really miss the view of working in Hong Kong, you know, we really got so much creative freedom. Yes. And no one will come up to you and send you any notes to give you any advice or, you know, even though the finance never comes a chance to come to the set. You know, for the finance, the coolant finishes, since they are so, they got so much money and they own the cauldron bus, you know. And then for the film business, they also, you know, they have so much comfort and don't ask. So, this time when we are trying to start a movie, to shoot a movie, which is giving, sometimes you get even a script, but sometimes it's just a very simple, you know, outline. And then the user out there, how much? I said, okay, about 20 million dollars. Okay. What kind of star? So in fact, and he said, oh, okay, that's great. And when you're going to shoot it, maybe in a couple months or okay, go ahead, do it. Wow. Give it the money. So, they're very simple, you know, they're so simple. And we, because at least for each other, they know how we work. And I know how to make a movie, get money back. Yes. Yes. Because market is so small, we only got Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, some Chinatown in foreign country, you know. And then they were so, you know, and then so we could easily make money back. So we have, we got used to deciding some action sequence, the audience love, you know. And then, anyway, there's how we need a movie. And then we are really like a tour on the set. Yes. We just started with the feeling. Wow. And then, good thing about Hong Kong, and by the meantime, in the 1980, the Hong Kong movie had a big change. They were changing, you know, like a revolution. So the, the lot about great film, you know, they have been called the Hong Kong New Wave. And most of them who are studying from England or America or, you know, Australia and there's anyway. So they are very in-nord support, a few people. So they, everyone will bring out some, you know, quick and new film. Yes. So that's why I was lucky. It was a chance to, you know, go to work and then we, one of them, you know, yeah. So that's, we were lucky timing. But you said that you used to say to the producers, you know, I'd like to do this. And they would go how much? 30 million. Then when we were the truth next year, maybe with hard boiled, hard boiled was a big step up. Was it harder to raise the money for hard boiled? I mean, it was such a, it was such a bigger movie than anything you'd done before. No, it wasn't hard to do that, you know, and, uh, but the best thing was, you know, I, when I shot this film, I nearly got crazy. I had enough breakdown, you know, because I was, like you said, I'm, I'm, like, kind of like the, the method, uh, uh, to look at you. So, like, uh, when I, uh, I watched news and everything, you know, and then the reason I shot that film because, uh, yeah, yeah, at that time, uh, uh, the Hong Kong King, uh, uh, almost all of control. Yes. They got the firepower, uh, much bigger than the police force. Yes. You know, so I feel, and then I was sitting, uh, people on the street, you know, and it's so crazy, you know, I got so mad. Um, every day, I, uh, uh, whenever I want to film, and some good people being, being up on the king or, or shot by the king, you know, I got so much, I got to feel, yeah, I put the angle into the film. Yeah. When I'm just, so I just keep shooting, when I'm sitting on the set, uh, doing the thing, I'm being a big guy, and I, and I, and I saw him, uh, he, uh, he's just, uh, he's the guy who, uh, detail that a bad thing, uh, today, uh, innocent people. And then I will, uh, uh, ask the specific guy, give him, uh, much bigger powder, uh, much bigger and put him up, you know, and the you're you're you're you're more political so because I have to say I I was drawing you know the news the news you know what happened in the real world and and I think it interested yes you know so we have to you know you know just like like to get them a listen and also get them hard yes so well when I'm shooting at these and then I suppose in a in a scene you know killing a couple of guys and not you know we have to move on until soon enough but when I'm shooting then no one could stop me I keep thinking you know beside the criminal and then also there are some other countries like a small country That's it. country. So the walls going on. So I also made me mad. And also made me make their scene action sequence like in the hospital. Yes. Actually, it was a symbolic of a small country when they when they are being attacked. You know, everyone in the hiding in the indoor indoor, the wall soon. Yes. So they have to fight back. They need a hero. They need to save them. Something like that. So this is why I saw the script. They are not in the script. There's all. Every scene is an orthopedist on my mood and then my thinking. And then what I have emotionally, in fact, by something bad happened. So that's how I to say while we kill, this is shooting shooting. And then she said there are no scripts. And nobody knows when the movie will win a story. Going to end. Going to be end. So that's why we are way old for butcher. We have a couple and a couple of them. And and and and and and so these guys are getting extended longer and longer. Supposed we got to deliver friends before Christmas. Because all the buyer from Korea, from other countries, they already paid the money and they already set up their releasing day in their own country. They were supposed to. If I deliver before the Christmas, and they will release the Christmas day. So they pop the theater everywhere. But when I said in the Christmas, the movie still have one third in the finish. So and then they all came over and filed a three and then they packing me a ton with you got the finish of the movie. I said, yeah, I was trying to do it quick. This is how it. So this is how it works. Oh my god. Which is amazing because the hospital sequence is just extraordinary. The the card or shootout, the famous single shots take where you had to change the set. Well, whilst while Tony and Jowian fat were in the elevator, I love that. But just finally, just going back to what you were saying earlier on about, you know, figuring out the action sequences, putting yourself in the heroes shoes, seeing how it would look, seeing how it would feel. Did you do that in the hospital sequence? Did you show Jowian fat and Tony lung what to do? How you know that that shootout sequence? Were you doing that for them? Every single scene. No, why did you exhaust it? I love to do that. I love to hold it again. I'm running with the actress. You do that. And they came to me and you know, okay, you came out of follow from here and then up to a fire. And then you turned to our close-up and then we keep leading us running and then also then we changed direction and then you change or come to you know, over my shoulder and then you're just shooting a scene. So that's how I look with the actor, you know, and by the meantime, our actor is very brave. The reason we like to make a long shot because since, because we all have stuck in a location for all four of us, you know, since it was a nice scene and then we got to shoot it at least time. So we have to tuck in all the windows. So we got to shoot a 24 hour a day and no one can leave the room and we only got a simple path. And for the room, for the actor to get some rest, somebody gets tired and they go to get some rest. And then I'll tell you already and then we continue with the shooting. And by the meantime, you know, we have exchanged the crew every night hour. So, wow. And then we never know it's a three-time or night time because the windows are darker. And then by real looking all of a sudden the May came in. It's like, uh, Mr. Wu, uh, the breath is ready. Oh, and they were all, it's the morning. Every eight and then the shooting. So, the whole thing was, uh, when, uh, when we should be quick, I'm firing and I think I can shot every day doing something. I got to feel so boring. And by the meantime, we all feel we all stuck in the hell. Yes. And we nobody know when we came out of the hell, you know, uh, when we get full. So, uh, all of a sudden I got to, I did, I said, how about this? You know, I would, I'd like to do a four, five-minute long shot. Uh, and then, uh, doing fine and doing, you know, and running, uh, I started shooting and from one quarter to uh, and then, uh, they are from fourth floor, yeah, even going to the second floor and doing all in one shot. And, uh, it never happened, you know, it never seen in any of Hong Kong film before. Even though, uh, the, uh, western film, you know, so I was excited about it. And especially because we said about it, but, uh, the thing was, uh, we only got one floor. And then, uh, I said, okay, I came up the idea. How about, uh, I'm doing this thing in, uh, first of all, we built an, uh, airvator. Yes. And, uh, the two hero games, uh, uh, airvator, when it door closed, we made up turning, uh, turning seconds, time. No. So, uh, uh, let's see, I see anything. And then in turn second, the whole crew got changed and said, uh, outside of airvator, they might have, uh, they have to write out the blood and pull out of that body and then we print the table and the window. And then, make, uh, uh, uh, the, uh, the beautiful, uh, the second four, uh, in turn, the second, wow. So after the second, when the time it finished, the door open is on, uh, uh, uh, they, uh, they, uh, they came to a second four and conduced for thing and the camera followed. So, uh, the first day, we failed and then, uh, uh, uh, we have no monitor, but at this time, uh, we have, uh, higher, uh, we have used, uh, about nine camera from the Van Enkel. So the specific icon hiding in one room, uh, can see, uh, can see the actor well, where they go, when do they fire so they get better button. Oh, it was very tough. The first day, we were, uh, but we had, we already ran out of money. I said, okay, uh, I got to change, uh, change the idea. Uh, but the whole cool, even the actor said, no, John, and it's, uh, and, uh, and it's a speciality, the stunning guy, John, this is your, uh, uh, uh, your idea, this is a great idea. Uh, you call it to make, uh, the Hong Kong film history. Hmm, let's do it again. Uh, but I, but they won't keep, keep, keep, keep us for money. Yeah, money is nothing. Let's do it again. Still the whole quote they will be crashed to do My more time the second day fail Because the inner feet of what we build over your god's stock Oh my god show up and then The third day fail. I say all right. That's it We have no more time and then I got too much pressure from the producer you know, I understand me and then Okay, let's try the last one Last one one more time So and then we do it again and the fourth is so we And then we did Even though there's some little problem in there, but it's still okay So at least we got through we got a whole shot And then everything so we let them cheer and you know so I I'm so glad to make it so that mean yeah, so I must say the Beside we have a good actor. I also have a good team very good team Especially the camera crew And they Stand people when the camera crew but I got for the last scene when I They'll pull out the whole building. Yeah, so we have set 50 bombs right you know in every That's free story It was a free story Appendent and Coca-Cola factory. Yes, so yes, we have set that you know 50 bombs You know But a window so and a lot of people running out and we problem When the camera follow our hero story with a story and a tracking I hear holding a baby That baby running in the middle of explosion. Yeah, and then but look I saw the uh off the camera The explosion is still continuing And so much through a good fire. Yeah, and then I kick the camera operator I said breath the camera to The gain to the fire give me the shot so The camera sitting got to answer school the camera from the type of In three seconds And then the camera Put on the shoulder and grab a Wetshower you know I put on the head and then he ran into the fire and Conduosed to the explosion fire. Oh my god. That's how we work. Oh my god That's how you work and if for this thing guy, okay, they were two stories. Okay. Uh you go after the first four You got shot because yeah, are you four? Uh face down Four on the ground with no Cousin with no protection. I said There's uh Okay, we will do it and then you can start Oh, well four on the ground. That's how we So they're so brave and so So cooperating and the highest building, you know That's so I love my stunt guy. So this is why Whether the picking vision I like to continue making action movie. Yes, because I have highly Uh, which back The stunning people from all over the world Uh, you know, the Hong Kong and America and England and you know, France, you know wherever I walk, you know, you know, I uh I just want to keep the the same people alive. Yes I'll keep working as well. Yeah, keep walking and keep the trying something new and they love challenges. Good Uh, they love challenges. So uh There's uh, I feel like, uh, you know, I'm working with a friend Or the chef on that note. John Woo. This has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for so much for your time But now I have to go to the airport I have to fly home But the future mother finger job pressure port and I hope Uh England uh, I mean British is a soccer team of win We shall see we shall see John Woo. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you Well, that was John Woo folks and while his world cup prediction skills may not be on point This is obviously coming out the morning after England lost to Argentina in the world cup semi finals That interview very much was on point what a pleasure it was To talk to the great John Woo and Bullets and Brotherhood The BFI season dedicated to John Woo is still running at the BFI Southbank in London Until the end of July So you'll be able to see both parts of a better tomorrow. You'll be able to see the killer Bullets in the head Want a thief which is a film that is often overlooked in his canon Uh, you'll be able to see hard target which is a film with Sean Claude Fandham bites the rattle of a rattlesnake You'll be able to see face off both parts of red cliff and of course Hardboiled which looks way better on the big screen at the BFI and it did a my mate Ross's portable TV But you're gonna enjoy it every bit as much as I did and hey Maybe even a little more and I hope you enjoyed that interview I know we didn't cover everything in Woo's career But I did genuinely have to run to the airport But it was an absolute pleasure talking to John Woo. I know I say that at the end of every interview This has been a pleasure. What an absolute pleasure. This has been Sometimes spoiler alert. I don't always mean it But in this occasion I very much did John Woo dream come true And on that note that is it for this John Woo interview special There will be more interview specials coming away very very soon including Matt Damon Tom Holland John Ligwisambo And Hymesh Patel on the Odyssey and Scott Ockerman host of my favorite podcast in the entire universe comedy bang bang Talking ahead of his forthcoming UK and Ireland tour That's gonna be up there as well and other stuff other stuff's coming your way very very soon So keep your eyes peeled and thank you as ever for listening and supporting the podcast It means a great deal. All right, that's enough for me. Thank you so much for listening. See you next time Bye-bye