John Cena, Vol. III

- James, they built this huge beach in Atlanta and they built a fucking beach in a back lot. And James is like, 500 yards away with a megaphone, shout, "Oh no, stop! "Wait, just, I'm coming over!" - Oh no. - Came over and said, "Hey, just be a douchey "broy-capped in America." - Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused, begins. Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, John Cena. He's one of the biggest actors on the planet. He's one of the biggest human beings on the planet. He's here on the podcast for the third time. He's always a fascinating conversation and this one is no different. Thanks guys, it's always for checking out the podcast. Remember, to hit that subscribe button on YouTube on Spotify, however you're doing it, I don't care, just do the thing. You know what to do. And remember, if you like what I do, check out our Patreon, patreon.com/happy, sec-infused, early access to every single episode of Happy, Sec, Infused, and bonus materials, access to our live events, and so much more Patreon.com/happy, sec-infused. Okay, so let's talk John Cena for a second. This guy's fascinating. He delivers fascinating interviews. Pearls of wisdom just trip off of him. He is a deep thinker. He doesn't take anything lightly. His work, these conversations. This one is, I think, our third round of Happy, Sec, Infused with John and he always surprises me in the best possible way. Yes, we talk about his new movie, Matchbox, the movie, which is super fun and entertaining. It's on Apple TV this week, check it out. But also we go into, I don't know, his approach to life and career and balancing it all. He talks about, you know, taking a stab at acting in 2006, 20 years ago, and failing, frankly failing, and being given a second chance in more recent years. We talk a lot about James Gunn and peacemaker. We talk about the end of his wrestling career at length. He goes in deep about why he decided to leave when he did and how it all went down and is really reflective in the best possible way. I always learn a ton talking to John about his life, but also just life in general. And I'm always just so appreciative that one of the busiest men on the planet comes on this little podcast. So I think you guys are going to enjoy this. I know I did. Here we go. Me and the one and only, John Cena. Enjoy. John Cena, you're back on the podcast. Yeah, thanks so much. I appreciate you always. I was just saying, time is the most valuable commodity as far as I'm concerned. And you've been very generous with your time over the years with me. So I thank you, buddy. Appreciate you. And I apparently didn't ruin it enough to be asked back. So thank you so much. We're going to get you into the Five Timers Club. This is your third time on the podcast. OK. You've got a free hat when you're on Five Times, John. All right. OK, I got something to strive for, right? That's a feel like-- Love the gamification of that. I like that. Just trying, whatever I can do. Congratulations on the movie. We're going to cover that in many things today. Matchbox, the movie, is the film. Last time I saw you, San Diego Comic Con. So we debuted the trailer. That was a fun one. Yeah, it was. OK, so talk to me. You might be the busiest man in show biz. That's what it seems like to me from the outside looking in. Can you give me some perspective? Since I saw you in July, have you shot something? Have you traveled the world? Have you taken some time off? Where-- what's John's all I've been, yeah? Yeah, yeah, all-- I don't know, man. I think we're all busy in our own right. It is so sports cliche, but I'm just trying to handle it one day at a time. Yeah, I mean, you seem to me like someone that's kind of unflapable. Like, you can kind of handle the big things, the crazy things, the silly things. Like, you're always kind of even keel. And maybe that's part of that is just part of like projecting something out into the universe. But I don't know. What friends and family say, John, is kind of an even keel kind of guy, or do you have your ups and downs like the rest of us? I think they would definitely say I'm human. And goodness, I think, stubbornness, sternness, some of my-- some of the strengths that got me opportunities are also the biggest weaknesses I have. I think maybe because I've been lucky enough to be able to be creative for a long time, I understand that not only will it end, also that more than likely, one mess up, one slip up, won't be the end. You are not defined by one action alone. You can piss a lot of people off. They'll talk about you for a week or a month or whatever, but your body of work will speak for itself from a professional standpoint. And let's take that outside professionalism. They're for friends, and I do something to piss you off. For really close friends. You'll talk shit maybe for a week or a month. And then we'll go on in our friendship. You know what I'm saying? So you're like one-- I guess I know that I am going to fuck up and to try to take those with grace and also when people upset me. Are their intentions malicious? Are they just trying to do the best they can? Where did we miss? What am I really mad about? And can I course correct? Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, totally. I mean, is that a warning that you had to come to after many years? Is that so? Like I said, I think that is a byproduct of me being lucky enough to be in the creative space or in this space where I'm consistently interacting with individuals. I'm in the service business. You have to make relationships immediately. Well, you get to make relationships immediately. Some that you might never see again, we're all in it together, although we're all in it for selfish reasons. You know, I want to keep working. And I want the movie to be a success with my castmates. And then I got to do it again, or I get to do it again with other castmates. And another movie in project. I don't know. I think it has a lot to do with the amount of time. You know, it's like that old person who's super wise and the young kids are like, oh man, you don't know that. And you know, the guy knows everything. But it's just the amount of time he's had to live. Were there times early on when you did fuck up and you thought this would have lasting repercussions? That moment where if we look at what a mess up is or a fuck up, a fuck up defined by me is when I'm completely acting outside of my values. All right, betraying your own. When I am walking the talk, yeah. If you don't privately change the radio station because I'm walking the talk. I believe a true mess up is when you go outside of that. That's when you feel like, ah, man, I wasn't myself. I begin to feel guilt and I begin to feel shame. Yeah. Or if one of your values becomes obsolete. I'm holding onto this value. Just out of standard enough. Bringing me down a wrong path. It's making me go against all the other ones. So I think the behavior in that sort of aspect is where guilt and shame comes in. And like, so when we have those moments of effing up, your question was like, does it feel like the end of the world? That's the immediate, nervous reaction for me. Yeah. Is this it? Is it how the story ends? Also, I'm in an occupation that's fragile. I also know it will end. And I also know the end is beyond my control. If I have my own story to paint and do it on my own terms, I'd like to do this forever. When I retired from WWE, everyone's like, man, you're doing it on your own terms. Bullshit. I want to do it forever. I know that it's time to go. It is within my values. I said, I want to do good work and I want to leave doing good work. But my own terms are to do it in fitting. Like, I want to continue to do it. But I have to be realistic and look at the math. And be like, well, gas time to step away. It's funny because you said that to me many times. I've heard you say to other people and not many people in your position talk about it having an end point. I think we all kind of have the delusion, the hope that we can continue on forever, be immortal, be viable. And what a goal to shoot towards. You never know the advance and what we're going to discover all the way. At this point, that is delusional because there has never been a human being to do that. So that is delusional. I think starting there of like, hope is a great word to keep for that concept. Sure. I hope within my lifetime, maybe we crack the code. The reality that we live in is that is delusional. So starting with, I'm going to die. That's not a morbid thing. It's perspective of that thing could be morbid. I like saying it is going to end because, man, when I wake up and it's a sunny day and in New York in October, and I look around with the skyscrapers and the lights bouncing off the sky. I'm like, it's a beautiful day. And I'm not perfect with that. Boy, there is a wrong side of the bed that I live on quite often and I'm sometimes slow getting to altitude. And there are sometimes moments of crisis in my life. I'm a human fucking being. But I think knowing that you don't have all the time in the world, also knowing that your end is beyond your control. Life expectancy is just an average of everybody combined. So it could be tomorrow. Still having joy in your life with that uncertainty and making choices for like, I could not do hard drugs and that puts the math in my favor. I could not continue to fall down and put my body through physical punishment. That's going to put the math in my favor. Right. It's not a certainty. But at least it's steering it in the right direction. Sure. But that concept of like, this thing will end. I don't look at that pessimistically. I look at that and be like, "Dude, enjoy it while you're here." And to be able to end chapters, I know my professional career is also not what totally defines me as a human. I got so much more to give. I got so much more curiosity out there, so much more things to see. Like, so what? So what are you working on now? Nothing. And that's an okay answer. But in our industry, it's always like, that's got to be busy. Yeah, to have something, what are you developing? What's going on? Man, I don't know. No, and I'm guilty of it as anybody. Like, when you came in here, I was like, "Wait, John doesn't have a project he's doing next." Like, what's going on? And it took me up until like, right now, a few years ago, to say that's okay. Of course, it's okay. It's more than okay. It's required. The maxims that are thrown around, like, "Make while the sun shines." Dance to the phone while it's ringing. Like, you got to get on the next one. Like, it is, it's in many aspects. It's a mercenary business. Like, you don't know where your next paycheck's coming from. The industry continues to change and evolve. That's from the advent of the first time they put something on silent movies to like, where we're at now. I mean, nobody understands it. I don't know where the where the next one's coming from. You just, you try to do the best you can and hope they ask you back. More happy, second views coming up. From the parents behind Law and Order, comes a mystery the whole family can enjoy. Patrick Picklebottom, Everyday Mysteries. Step into the whimsical world of Patrick Picklebottom, a precocious 11-year-old, with a love for reading and an uncanny ability to solve mysteries. 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I think there needs to be a healthy combination of I feel this is right and man, this looks right. What I look for in an opportunity is great producers because things are going to go wrong. And that's when a great producer is a great producer. And I tell anybody if I get like an EP credit on something that is an act of kindness from the people who actually do those, the that work, but great producers are the start. A passionate director that doesn't need to be a director with a ton of movies under their belt. It could be someone new. It could be a first-timer. It could also be an experience, but they have to have a sense of passion. Yeah. And passion for me is like talk about films the way I talk about wrestling. Okay. Right on. Because I know when you're in it, you're going to fight for your vision. And you already have an idea of what you want to do. Sometimes going one to the next, to the next, to the next is a way to keep the lights on. It also is a way to keep us like numb and complacent. And like why am I really still doing this? Just checking the boxes. So great producers, passionate director. And the reason you got great producers is sometimes you got to reel in that passion from the director. But that's great. It's a great relationship to have. And a good story, a good script. I need to be able to read it. If I'm reading it and I have to put it down to be like, I'll finish it later, it could be the role of a lifetime. Let someone else have it. Yeah. It has to be my favorite book on day one of shooting. It has to be my favorite book on prep and rehearsals, day 90 of shooting, the last day of press, the first day of press. It needs to have that feel. And I think the feel of the read is where the instinct comes in. And the other two are really based on bodies of work, really logical data driven stuff of, well, passion is a gut instinct as well. So it's a combination there. So what feeling did this give you? So Sam Hartbrich is the only one recently that I've had two of the three. I had no script for this one. That's a leap. It is. Skydance promised me that like, Hey, we're partnered with Apple on this one. You did Barbie. You saw what how Mattel is with their IP. They're not looking over your shoulder enough. Forcing to do anything. We haven't given you a script yet because we don't, we don't feel it's in a right place. Trust me, it's going to be there. And I rolled the dice, given their track record, and they delivered. They promised me. So we had, we had Skydance and Sam Hartbrich. I knew with Sam, there's no lack of passion. Right. That dude lives by pushing the envelope. This is the extractor. He's done a ton of. That's how he goes through life, pushing the envelope on life. Push the envelope as a dad, as a husband, as a director, as a stuntman, as like, he's awesome. He's very aspirational human being. So I just rolled the dice that the book would be great. And I got to admit, I was skeptical. And in hall H, you could like feel it. That's why I was stalling, dude. Like, you could feel everybody being like, how are they going to do this? Yeah, what's the same thing that happened on Barbie, right? Until you start to see it. How are they going to do this? And then you actually, yeah, yeah, one and a half minutes or two minutes. And you're like, thank goodness. Yeah. And I loved the story quickly became a favorite because the way they use Matchbox cars, the cars are just a conduit for nostalgia, right? Which is what the cars are. They don't have to showcase my favorite, but they use it. We look at nostalgia in times of crisis. The style just simply looking at an easier time in life. These, these, the Matchbox gang has dropped into crisis. Yep. And they got a lean on what got them to the dance. You know, there was a simpler time where we could solve any problem. And we did it when these were popular. It's like, oh man, I used to play that eight-bit Nintendo thing. Remember you used to sleep over and do whatever? Isn't that a simpler time in our life? Could we, if we would just solve problems like that? No, like that's how they wrote it. And credit to Mattel is a partner. They didn't have you do this. You know, like, no, it's not like they put a drop of water on the cars and then they become big. You know, you know what I'm saying? No, if anything, it's like, yeah, the Goonies kids grown up crossed with a little fast and furious thrown in there. I mean, you know, and a whimsical journey, but a realistic one for a CIA agent what Sean goes through is a normal day at the office. He just happens to bring his friends along. He deviates from the plan. And in typical operative fashion, everybody involved should be involved. Take everybody. Right. No, they don't belong yet. Well, too late. And then the Matchbox gang has to figure it out. And along the way, they, you know, Sean has been distant from his friends. They're stuck on a crazy road trip. So you get time to connect. And you realize that like Sean, his fish out of water scenario is, I work alone. Right. Not anymore, pal. No, you don't. They're fish out of water scenarios. What the fuck is going on? As 99% of us would be. Yeah. So it is very charming to see kind of like, yeah, like the childhood friends still connected. And I'm curious like, how good you've been in your own life. Because people you grew up with must marvel at like where you are, who you are. There's not a day that goes by that I don't marvel at what's going on. There's not a day. There's not a single day. Or I don't, I don't say like, what a life or how lucky I am. Right. Am I in a simulation? Is this real? Regardless of what it is. Yeah. I would be lucky enough to be in the simulation for this long. Like this, it's just luck. Yeah. And well, it's more than just luck. It's, it's a luck meeting opportunity. I mean, luck and the luck is the opportunity and then add effort to the opportunity. And hopefully that can exponentially increase opportunities. But many of those opportunities are just luck. But to my point of like. Childhood and and and people we keep in our lives friends and family or they Or I mean, I don't know do they give you some perspective to the ones that you grew up with that have kind of that So distance from it. I still have a few of those friends from like grade school. Yeah, I got a few friends from college I got friends throughout wrestling. I have friends in you know that I've met in the movie business from And I also have Friends that I had in grade school that I no longer have friends I had in high school in college that I no longer have Friends that I had when I was starting out wrestling continuing wrestling that I no longer have Friends in the movie business that I no longer have and it's not like fuck this person. It's like just the chapter. It's life Yeah, that's life. Yeah, that's life. You it's tough to keep all those connections Yeah, I think the ones in grade school that I still have we've been able to grow together Not with any of my connections that I love and and pour into in life are we stuck in 1985 We're we can reflect on 1985 sure and we live in the now Yeah, and we look ahead to what's onward and I think that separates those who stay in the book from those who end the chapter Right, you know, they're living in the past. Yeah, it is it I would also imagine again You're in this very unusual. You're living this unusual life. We all are living unusual lives You're on the extreme. I would say like is it hard to accept new people into your life and trust new people? No No, I Thrive and work hard to remain curious. I Believe I'm an optimist when it comes to humanity. I believe there's not There are some people who are acting for selfish reasons. There are certainly scammers out there I just believe in humanity and I believe you can have small acts of incremental trust To build a greater structure of trust. Yeah, just the way we have an interaction the way you say hello The way we start our conversation the way you treat me if you're asking something of me and from me Doesn't mean I won't reject you I might give it to you, but I that might be the end of our transaction and it might be purely transactional How a relationship develops is small exercises and trust. That's it. Yeah, and if I'm not willing to give that if I'm like no new friends Then I shut myself off from love and connection. Yeah, I think the risk is worth the reward and I've met some great folks in the process unlikely friends like It's it's a wonderful thing It's it really stings when it goes wrong and it does go wrong and it sucks But man when it goes right it's beautiful. It's worth it Okay, I feel indulged me. Let's reminisce for a little bit. It struck me almost 20 years to the day going back The Marine came out. Yeah, like truly almost 20 years exactly. Yeah And we've talked a little bit about that period of your life and the kind of the early you know films you did But like can you take me back to like what your attitude was what your feeling was when that film premiered about your potential acting career? I was thoroughly engaged on the success of the business model and My goal was to put more people in the arenas for WWE right period Like hey, man, you could like have a whole another career out of this. Why would I want another career right? I was in Pittsburgh last night and it was dope. We're doing we're doing Allentown tonight and it's so loud Right and there's no other feeling in the work and it's gonna be awesome. Yeah, and like every every night a new challenge a new crowd to figure out a new Dance partner to work with you know a new piece of the world to see a new adventure to have as a young 20-something 30-something like you cracked the code. This is it's man. I don't want to be anywhere else. Yeah, and And in reflection I could see that in the work the heart was elsewhere man You see it if you if you went back we watched the Marines today, you would see something that's just not Assuming it wasn't there or so when I watch it. I can tell We can do things that that Amaze people and still not have our heart in it So if somebody is entertained by the marine. I can't so many people man. I love that move. Sure a lot of that is Protection from somebody like David egg be the DP Robert Patrick our senior our senior on the you Know on the on the cast a lot of it is them Rising everybody up. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And you can only hide in that for so long with WWE I know I got dance partners and a good dance partner can pull along a non-passionate dance partner and get them through a good match The body of work will speak if you continue to have passion every time you step on the canvas and you can Work with anybody and create a passionate story with anyone my heart wasn't in those Early offerings because I didn't put in the effort to get better. Right. Okay. I start shooting on Monday So I'm not gonna show up there until like the last second and whatever No, I just do I'll figure it out. I'll figure it all out. Whereas in wrestling. It's like who am I gonna fight? I'm gonna study all my opponents. What am I gonna say? This is gonna be crazy And then we can do this move it like I didn't go at it with that gusto Yeah, and then after getting kind of run out of town in the movie business I had to start over. I thought I got you want to talk about luck. I got to start over as my second run. Yeah, you know More happy second views coming up Hi listeners, we want to tell you about a podcast we love it's called Rebel Girls formally known as Good Night Stories for Rebel Girls It's about real-life women who are changing the world with their courage Creativity and big bold ideas want to know how Taylor Swift became a superstar or hear how Simone Biles became the greatest athlete of all time From immersive stories to heartfelt interviews to super smart advice Rebel girls brings you stories that will get you fired up to become your best self There are over 400 episodes for you to explore with new episodes every week So check it out listen to Rebel Girls wherever you get your podcasts and find us on youtube.com/rebelgirls And whatever you do stay rebel Most writers have written really terrible stories the only thing different about me is that I Kept them all and on my brand new show character development I'm gonna force my very talented actor friends to read them with me There are teen slasher's where every character sounds edgy as hell There's sci-fi giants that read just a little bit too much like giant penises and there's a murderer who enjoys musical theater for some reason Listen to character development a comedy podcast on Apple podcasts Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts So yeah, we've talked about how that there was that pivot points 2009. Yeah, you have this conversation We're never doing movies again, right Dan danston right across the hall your guy Dan Okay, so he said he has the honest conversation. He says I don't think I think we're done. I don't think we're doing movies again Yeah, was that a blow to your ego? I mean you're riding high and wrestling you're entertaining everybody night after night Like oh fuck I I didn't succeed for once in my professional career I have been riddled with failure in my life It was just a thing of like okay cross that off the list right why did we miss? Yeah, you kind of didn't want to do it anyway, right? I Felt bad that I couldn't make the business model a success Yeah, this thing like someone had invested in me and I had cost them money rather than returning their investment That was what I felt the worst about yeah, and to Dan's credit when I'm like man We're never doing these again. He's like no, we're not and we're gonna find another way What do you enjoy doing like I will read the news will host some shows will do competition reality? Yeah Let's start moving forward and then Brian Robbins was like, hey, I'm filming this movie with this YouTube kid You want a parody yourself and I'm like yo, what? Cuz by then it's like the Fred was 2011-12. Yeah, I'm playing the same character on TV now like that So take that young hungry kid who's got lightning in a bottle. It's the first time audience is see John Cena Yeah, and now it's like nine years into To the being in the skin of the John Cena character and somebody's like, hey, do you want to make fun of that character? Yes, I do and I I Pride myself on trying to do as many fan conventions as I can whenever I'm off. I try to do fan conventions. I love them And so many fans come up to me with like this shitty green on their face going loved you and Fred I'm like, I loved those movies. Yeah, I absolutely loved those movies because that was the first time that I approached a creative role that wasn't wrestling with the passion I approach wrestling and one could argue on me I don't know like what the comedy directors were drawing on when they cast you and things like train wreck, but like I'm sure that was That's set you on the right path for people to kind of say. Oh this guy. There's has other shape There's also tremendous advantages by being put around very capable people. Yeah. Well, that's and then combined very capable people who create a very safe creative environment Yeah, that's a chemistry experiment for a high level of success totally again, so you know, but then also approaching this This let's take train wreck for example a part that was written simply to be a one seen gag Amy's true experience in life where she had way too physical sex with someone and it was like This is just too physical. I can't like I'm out because it's so it's a gag down and super funny We'd stunt rehearsals and like well, we use none of it Because of the audition and their ability to pivot and be like oh man, but I came prepared dude I came prepared and confident and knew like okay I'm giving I'm giving this small window of probably 90 seconds on screen my everything and What I'm not gonna do is get out of that audition and say I could have done more right and that's been a that's been a process That's helped me was there do you remember the first time you met James gun like was it for peacemaker or did you go up for guardians like did you go up for drags like first time I met James gun was auditioning for peacemaker in the suicide squad okay, well, so you didn't you never did the whole guardian's kind of audition process. No, no and I knew I was in James's first choice. There's also you mentioned ego. There's also no ego with me about that I think like a lot of the greatest opportunities I've gotten life Have been because someone else has said no. Yeah, I have very rarely been someone's first choice And that's okay like it doesn't matter how you get it. It's what you do with it, right when I Open James office and he had the entire movie comic book storyboarded from starting there to there And he was like, yeah, this is what I see and peacemaker's this we're gonna do this and that's the journey and then we're gonna end it like this and it's what do you think? I'm like, what do I have to Try do you only hear me? No, no, do you want to do it? Because like I want you to do it Oh my god So I get to do that. Yeah, we're gonna start shooting in a couple weeks. Okay. I'll see you in a few weeks and like I knew then Like yo, I have a passionate director, you know, now I got to get this book in my hand and make it my favorite, you know, like that that was Seeing that and also reinforcing it and it I I guess in a way of mentorship that James doesn't know about of like You know, you want to go in be prepared and James is Super prepared. Yeah, I have a feeling that's because he writes the material but like in the in the material Everybody asked me like oh this thing and peacemaker. Yes, it was in the script This is where the scoring starts. This is the scoring. This is where the scoring ends like he is Prepare is living and breathing out. He That's why all the stuff that he creates has that unique touch to it that unique feel to it, you know like it's um He bestows lessons upon me that he doesn't even know about just how he moves through space. Right. Give it everything Everything did he give you back on the suicide squad like any specific direction of how to approach the character or so I asked him if I should read the comics in his office. He's like nope. I'm gonna create my own interpretation of the character That I think that's sometimes why I looks to choose broken toys. So he has a freedom to do whatever you want. Uh-huh And I I came up with what I thought peacemaker would be and he threw it away the first day shooting on the beach I was like this guy is like a freedom fighter or like a devout patriot Confused I thought like a Lee army from full metal jacket right and like Couldn't be more angular and then james's would they built this huge beach In Atlanta and like they built a fucking beach in a back lot and it james is like 500 yards away with a megaphone shout sounds. I'm saying. Oh, no, stop. Wait. Just come over. No, no. I came over and was like hey just Just be a douchey bro. He kept in America And I'm like, okay, what a cool moment, right? I had done my work. I had prepared like How does a military drill sergeant move through space? How does he move through space and scenes when he knows no one's watching him like This is who I think this person is. It's the choices And then in one moment real time like we're doing a take next I get a note to be like hey all that work you did throw it away This is what I want to see What a pivotal decision. I got two choices. I can fight for right what I want which is selfish Or I can take advice from the dude who sees the whole movie in his head and what he's really looking for out of me Is douchey bro. He kept in America Time to pivot through all the work away and peacemaker was born What a perfect direction that too. It kind of tells you everything you need to know right there that It's a vivid picture right like everybody's like oh, yeah, I got that. I got it And my version might be slightly different than chis but like we're gonna we might hit the bull's eye But we're not gonna not we're not missing the board. Yeah, yeah, you know, and that's when we began to hone in on the thing and just that direction So the long walk on the beach led up to like me and Idris stop it on a hill where we finally were like realize poke it out man and all that stuff Just that direction allowed so many alts To come out to mess with Idris for Idris to mess back with me right James. He was none of them But he was just letting me get altitude as peacemaker And he did that for the whole first run of the series too in right covid man. We filmed that thing during covid nobody had human interaction So dude, I came to set to every date of burn to burn film and James was so great about We always made our days. We never wasted anybody's money He was always great about giving us time To interact as humans with humans to set the stage for a workplace comedy Which is what season one a peacemaker was I mean those two seasons are fantastic and I mean I think many would argue that it's like it really Showed us what you are capable of as an actor like it's like an amazing performance. So congratulations on that I mean that character the stuff you get to do the stuff you get to say You know to something that would be a little scary like I mean when you read like some of the lines he wrote for you Like a command fucks fish like is there like oh god? I'm gonna see Jason Memoa one day I'm gonna have to explain that walk to him or like is there just so much trust in James that like so I So here's my thing like If I'm if I'm a character Saying a line about another character I'm not making fun of Jason, right It's not John making fun of Jason You know what I'm saying and I also I also think this is the skin I've built in the WWE right I have been called everything And people will come up to me and be like Yo, I I boo you all the time, but that I'm just boon John Cena not like John Cena like I'm like what? I'm then oh okay, but and I get it yeah So it's not personal The lines are there to establish conflict and quite frankly if you get a rise out of the person That's why we did it right and and if you can't compartmentalize and you do take a personal that my apologies But that's not what it's for right, you know if I sit here with an interview with you and talk shit about a person That is me personally saying I don't like the way this person is and I'm handling My frustrations by talking to you about it and putting it out to the world. Yeah I'd like to settle that with the person face-to-face And and if I don't get that chance that I'll sit in my own stuff. Yeah, but I don't know I That's Is that is that uncomfortable all Brave things need to be uncomfortable You need to do something and be like I hope they like it Not like nailed it. Like the nailed it comes after the audience sees it right That's easy to say that that worry that that nervous excitement. That means you're touching the third rail It happens right before you go through the curtain in wrestling like right up into and then when you go through It's a different feeling R is the movie-making business is different you have that The curtain is until tonight When audience is see it you get but it has to you have to have that nervousness that discomfort, you know Because you should be making bold choices that you should be putting yourself out there And good coaching either castmates and castmates and a director And editors and people putting the movie together should take those bold choices and make them make sense You know, I have full trust in Directors which is why a passionate director is one of my tent poles I want to give them what they want even if it's not what I see because what I see is not what they see They're making the movie. I'm not gonna go with them into the edit But if they're like hey, I need you to be crazy. All right. I'll give you my interpretation of crazy I'll also take like straight notes be crazy and say this while you're being crazy. I'll do my best It's a challenge for me as an actor. I'm not trained like this is my training. I'm getting reps as we go Um, I don't know. I just I like that. I like that, you know We couldn't possibly have seen the last of peacemaker. I mean that's you need a different guy on in the chair We got I I have you have you been costumes since we last saw you have you and when when I put that helmet on I told James. I'm like dude. I will put this helmet on as long as you need me to I love working with him. I love the environment. He creates He makes me a better performer. So I love being around him I also know that he went from like He did Guardians Had to had a steep hill to climb. He got invited it's DC, he had one crew to mess around with. The suicide squad. - Yep. - And then coded and he was really bored. So he wrote, "Peace me." Now, this dude gets to play with the whole box of toys and because you get the whole box of toys, you have to address the really valuable ones first. And I understand that. So here's a situation where I put my heart and soul into a character and an unknown character. It becomes a fan favorite. I also know that it's okay, I got to step back. - They got it. - Superman and Batman, get there too, I guess. - Superman, Batman, wonderful, and the dog. There's so many valuable IPs. We, you know, I'm not in the leadership spot, but if I was, I'd be making those toys first. So that's okay. - But does it feel like from a creative standpoint for you is there unfinished business? I mean, we left. - There should always, there always feels like unfinished business. I've retired from wrestling. And people are like, man, but you can come back and like, you know what I'm saying? That's all that is to me is a message that like, dude, you did good work. - That's a good sign. - Yeah. - You did good work. And I'd like to see you again. Nobody's saying good fucking written piece maker. - Yeah. - There might be some folks, but I've heard more of the other sentiment than the sentiment I just expressed. I just, rather than, oh man, but what if we, I have no control over the, what if we? - Yeah. - I did good work. Hopefully, it might get me a good opportunity elsewhere. We'd like you to do a matchbox. Okay, let's go. - You know what I mean? - Yeah, totally. - Have you been away from wrestling long enough to miss it yet? - I missed it while I was in it. Like, it, man, it's music I love to listen to, man. Like, it's, I miss it now. I missed it while I was in it. I missed it while I was doing it. I'll miss it forever. I wish I could do it forever. There's, there's, I would be lying and I, I wanna, honesty, you can explain things differently, but honesty is also a, that's a core value of mine. I, I love it. There's nothing like it and I wish I could do it forever. - Was it, when you made the ultimate final decision to, to say goodbye, was it a combination? Like, was it, was it a doctor saying like, your body's gonna give out at some point? - Is it like, are you just feeling it? - No, I'm, I'm 49. - Yeah. It's lower, my vertical jump was down, my overall strength was down, which means my body essentially time is undefeated. My body is getting weaker and it takes longer to perform, longer to warm up to perform. It takes longer to recover between performances. All of these things are data that's hitting me in the face. And those times, those numbers, the strength numbers are never going back up. The times are never gonna get smaller. It's gonna take longer and longer, not to say that I still don't have good performances left. I could probably get in there and still do some stuff. - Yeah. - But when is the math gonna not work? And at that point, gosh, people are paying a lot for tickets and I'm, I'm robbing them of that investment. So, I just looked at the data, I looked at the schedule, a lot of stuff is going on and I'm, I'm passionate about what I'm doing. And I don't want to take away from people on the production side who invested all this money in me. I don't want to take away from that. Let's close this chapter while we still can do great work and hopefully tell a year-long riveting story. And it was. The great thing about the story is it pissed people off, people didn't like parts, people did like parts. Conversation erupted, but it wasn't apathetic. We had no empty seats. As far as you're concerned, you were more than happy with how I called it out, you no regrets. - Yeah, the whole idea of the retirement tour wasn't like an ego-tistical thing. It was like, man, this business invested so much in me. How can we take the IP and really do a good thing for the business? And not just from like, okay, if we got this new talent and we want to put John Cena with a new talent. No, how can we make 2025 a year, where you can begin to gain relevance and take that and leverage it into whatever content agreements you have? Or like, how can we get to a new territory internationally by advertising Yogue? We'll give you one of John's last performances. - Sure. - Use it as a judgmental work. - Yes, and the, you know, we take things differently. There were perspectives out there. I was like, oh man, this is an ego-driven thing. It is a business-driven thing, yeah. The, I think, the selfish thing is just to go away. Because every, you didn't, you didn't alone make yourself this huge thing. Not only did you have a bunch of dance partners, but you had somebody pushing money into the furnace to create the IP. And it was just a way for me to be like, well, if I'm gonna, if I'm gonna go, I think this might be a good way to do it. And I pitched the WWE and I was like, hey, listen, either it's this or like, I just post on X that I'm retired. - Yeah. - Yeah, that post is gonna get a ton of traction, but X is gonna get paid for that. Like, let's do something that's fulfilling for the audience and let's do something that keeps the company's lights on. And that's where the idea of the farewell tour was born. - Can I show you what's instantly become one of many iconic moments in your career at the end? Can we show this to John? This is the long awaited heel turn. - Oh yeah, yeah, look at that. - Can you put me in your head a little bit of like, do you remember the before, during and after of that moment? - Yeah, so this came out of nowhere. And again, it was like most, I was never a performer to be like, I wanna work with this guy and I wanna do, this, this, this, this. This was a phone call I get seven to 10 days before the thing about like, hey, we have this idea what we wanna do in February is turn heel. Is that okay in a problem? Wait, what? Are you sure? Yeah, that's what we're doing. Yeah, but you've been a good guy so long and people view you as a good guy. Hey, I've been down this road before. The last time we addressed this was 2012 with Dwayne Johnson or 2011. And Vince came to me and it's like, I think I wanna turn you heel. I said, I'll do it every one. Just know that I'm here every day. Dwayne is coming in and out. So if we go bad, I'm going bad. A good bad guy makes the good guy great. - Right. - I can't be bad and then go shake hands and meet folks and do all that stuff. I just want you to know, like that's what you're saying is you want me to be bad. I'm all in. I went, got new gear made. I recorded a new song. Like I did all this stuff on my own. And then a week later, it's like now we're scrapped with that. Talk about it. This was, hey, we wanna do this. I'm in, yeah, sure. What do you mean? You're gonna be bad. People look at you as a good guy. Did you do your due diligence on this? Yes, I pitched you guys this last year. You know that I'm gonna be bad for the last, like a portion of the last year. You're fine with that. That's how you want your investment spent. Yes, we think it'll be awesome. Then I'm all in. Yeah, but what about how people feel about it's a character? It's a character, it's not me. And yes, the character's very closely correlated to John Cena. And a lot of like the tent pole things that WWE John Cena stands for are the same things that I believe in. And I have so much more to give as a human being. I would never in real life challenge anyone to a fight. I'm a fucking diplomat. I believe in conversation. And I believe that we can come to a resolve. And that would be a last ditch effort. That's a glaring difference between the guy that runs down the ramps. And if you want some, come get some. Anybody that comes out is getting their ass kicked. That is not my approach for excitement in real life, yeah. You know, so there's a glaring difference between the character and the human. And there are many more. And I think that's a gray area with creative space, especially with wrestlers because our fans are so passionate and they invite us into their homes every week. And I've been invited into their homes every week for two decades. And it's like, this is the guy I know. And yes, this is the guy you know. And if we got to know each other more, you would know more about me. And I guess it's the feeling of like, man, if people hate me because I'm doing it and like the characters ruined, well, at least we tried something bold. We tried. We went down swinging. It wasn't just an apathetic like, yeah, you know, this would be so much worse. Right. Let's swing boldly. The last choice I ever made, giving up a bold swing that my now involvement with the WWE, the John Cena classic, a bold swing. I made it. I made it through all the match criticisms and all the critiques and all the things. I want to get back in there and I want them to tell me it sucks and I want them to tell me why. And I, if you don't do it boldly, it's not worth it to swing something. So as long as I, I just asked everybody like, this is, these are the parameters. This is what you're asking me. You're okay. We're okay. And the one thing I said about the creation of the moment, we're all in And Cody's traveling bus talking about like how we wanted it to go and making sure creatively everybody's okay. So the one thing I think is important is shoot my face because I'm a guy who preaches friendship and Cody is a friend of mine. We have history. I think this is a believable thing. Just shoot the turn of emotions in my face. Wingering conflict, the turn and when you showed me that clip, you cut it at the kick and the nuts. You showed me the face. So like just without even me telling that story, what you showed me before validates like, Hey man, I think this is an important piece. Yeah. And then the afterwards got a little convoluted because some players dropped out of the race. We had to redefine our journey and that's the beauty of wrestling like it's a it's like a soap opera story that goes on and I tried to ruin wrestling which seemed like a bad idea or seemed like a great idea, but it kind of was a bad for business. That's an idea that it's like, I got this great idea that's going to be awful and awesome. And then the people come up and they're like, creatively, we need to go a different direction because this might be bad for business. Remember when we invested in that farewell tour thing, this might be the wrong way we want to do it. Okay, fine. I'll pivot. I'll throw that idea away. I'll come up with something new. Let's have my opponents now try to bring the good out of me. I know they're still good left in him and that enter Randy Orton and all my famous rivalries to try to pull me back to the right side because it's like I made sure to put the ticking clock on the board of like, we only got this many dates left. The first time I did it was in Vegas. So bands could realize like my time slipping away. It's very intentional. Black screen number is done. And then I would like a few appearances later. I'd wait and I'd bring the clock up again peel off more numbers. The first time in WWE that the sands are like, we only got the sky for 10 more. Why are you wasting it? Why are we doing? Like that sort of urgency created that sense of like, this is when it ends. Yeah. Come on, John, what are you doing? Don't end like this. Which is that started to get the energy and the chemistry we needed because I truly think that nobody believed I was going to do it. You know, I'm retiring January 6th from Netflix on the day of the year, I'm retiring whatever. No, this is for real. It takes a real. It really got real, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, I think everybody kind of discovered it in their own way and their own time. And in between my job is to swing boldly and make it entertaining. I had some misses, I had some hits, lack of effort was not one, you know, and I'm very proud of that last year and it might have set the stage for others to have ideas. They may be able to build off an idea like that when other superstars want to end their career. Who knows? I got to let you go soon. So let me just ask you quickly, just looking ahead, you feeling optimistic about another fast movie? I've been asking all your co-stars, it's like so beyond my control. Do you talk to Vin regularly? Do you check in? I do. I literally my big brother. I talk to him often and I don't talk to him about business. And I, gosh, I talk to Vince often, he's like, God, he's one of my closest friends. We never talk about business. There's so much more to talk about with Vin, you want to talk about like put forth work into a character and then get to know the person and they are way more than the character. Vin is that like, oh, he's one of the most fascinating human beings on the planet. But believe me, I agree. We talk often and I never talk business. And I would like to think there'd be another fast movie and also I know that I had a pretty bad wreck in the last one. I also, everybody's like, nah, but it's fast. And I also know that maybe that was the way for my character to end their story. And maybe it would help make the next one if there is one more meaningful if I didn't show up. Yeah. So it's not like I'm sitting here and be like, yeah, there should be a fast, there should bring my guy back, dude, I got to be a torreto. So instead of look onward about like, if this doesn't happen, this will be a disappointment, I look in the rear view and see the torreto cross dope, like awesome. Have you and Jwayne ever talked about like a buddy, anything film like again, like talking business is tough. Dwayne and I have talked about creative business that we have together. Yeah. We're pretty something. I think we're going to do it. Janssen for a while. Yes. And that has many many projects in development. It's tough to get something to the finish line. We talk about life, man. Like when I see him, it is literally a genuine, it's not the how you doing. It's like, let's take a second. And like, hey man, this time you said, how do my wife, I really need you to know that met a lot. And then we'll have a conversation about that. And he's very giving with his time and very sincere and very present. And I don't want to bug him down with like, and yo man, I got this pitch. So we're on the run. Yeah, totally. And there's so few people honestly that have the lives experience that you've had that you can relate to in a real way, like he's lived the life that you're living. And that's fast. He's lived the life that he's living. Sure. And we have common threads, but even in those common threads, it's like the same color orange, but if you put the thread under a microscope, it's very different. Sure. Yeah. There's a lot of commonalities we can have in conversation and in that conversation, my view of we're wrestlers and movie stars. So this is an outcome. He'd be like, no, no, no. It's this is an outcome. Yeah. And I don't know. My perspective is that individual doesn't seem like he gets a lot of time to himself. And when he's giving enough of this time to be present with me, the last thing I want to do is hand him a pitch deck. That's fair. No, no. That's fair. And if folks that make movies, it's a lot of folks out there that are in charge of like orchestrating those things. If they see Duane's body of work and my body of work and they're like, they'd be great together. That opportunity comes. I'm all in like to say I wouldn't want to share the screen with Duane Johnson is a bold face. The right. I learned from the way I operated our first run in the WWE that to beat my chest and say like to go to him into that opportunity. That was so wrong of me. So there's no way I'm going to I would love to do it, but I'm not going to advocate for it when it's beyond my control. And I don't want to force his hand into a decision or make. No, yeah. You understand? I did that once. It was such a such a learning experience. Yeah, we've talked about that one before. Yeah. You still a retired gamer? Have you come back to gaming? I am retired. Totally sorry. GTA 6 is not going to be on your list this year. I found piano, man. The piano and reading. Yeah. You're a cultivated man. I'm trying. No, I'm making up for lost time. I never played an instrument as a kid and boy did I never read. How's the piano going? I'm better than I was yesterday. Okay. As long as we can ask for. It's not enough for me to start playing Grand Theft Auto. So I'm still I'm still messing with better chance of you being a Carnegie Hall playing piano than playing Grand Theft Auto is what you're saying. And from your from your words, we'll see we'll see that. But yes, statistically, yes, there's a better chance. Okay. All right. Look, I really do. I always appreciate not only the time, but you are just such a straight shooter. You're so honest and thoughtful. I appreciate you. I wish you the best of luck on this one, Matchbox, the movie, Apple TV. Check it out. That's so much. And I know you can't please everybody. And I know that. What I hope this does is get your audience thinking and conversing out there of either I agree with that or I don't agree with that. And here's why. I think those moments are special when you can see two people interact in a conversation and have something to say about it afterwards. So I hope that's something to say is I'm going to see Matchbox, the movie Apple TV. 109. That's the warning, and I'm going to go shop for a really cool 3P suit because you always show me up, man. Tell them the waistcoat, baby. Just get in a couch at a second-hand store and make a suit out of it. I'll work on that for next time. Thanks, buddy. Appreciate it. Thank you. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressure. You did this by Josh. Oh, please, not that music. That music gives me nightmares from my childhood. Could we get something a little bit lighter, lighter music here? Are you a fan of True Crime TV shows? And what about Unsolved Mysteries, the show that jump started all of our love of True Crime? I'm Ellen Marsh. And I'm Joey Taranto. And we host I Think Not, a True Crime comedy podcast covering some of the wildest stories from your favorite True Crime campaign TV shows all the way to Unsolved Mysteries. Baby, you will laugh, you will cry, you'll think about True Crime in a whole new way and you'll also ask yourself, who gave these people mics? New episodes of I Think Not Are Released every Wednesday with bonus episodes out every Thursday on Patreon. And every Monday you can listen to our True Crime rundown where we go over the top True Crime headlines of the week. So come and join us wherever you listen to your podcast. [BLANK_AUDIO]