Johannes Høsflot Klæbo has a lot to say. We listened.

Welcome back to the Devon Kershaw Show. I'm Nat hers from FasterSkier.com. We are delighted to bring you this episode. It is something pretty unusual. It is the very best male cross country skier in the world, Johannes Kleibo of Norway, sitting down for an hour long Devon Kershaw Show podcast interview. Johannes and I taped this episode in Park City recently. And we've got more stuff coming from my visit there soon. We've got a bit of an unusual format here because Devon was sick and missed the taping with Johannes. We have a longer intro coming up next where he and I chat about the interview. Then we'll play the interview itself. You can also read coverage of Johannes Kleibo's visit to Park City on FasterSkier.com where we've got a story posted. Sit back, relax and enjoy this. We'll be right back. This episode of the Devon Kershaw Show is brought to you by the Utah Olympic Legacy Foundation and Soldier Hollow. Soldier Hollow is nestled in the Wasatch Mountains and it's in the middle of some major upgrades to the Nordic Center that should be ready this winter. Make it a destination for your next ski camp or vacation or buy tickets to the upcoming Biathlon World Cup races that are scheduled there in March should be an awesome party. More information at UtahOlympiclegacy.org. We can catch up a little bit but what a great interview. I mean, I love the interview so for people that are listening or want to listen to this luckily for you, you don't have to hear me gripe and mone but a fantastic interview. I would say the best interview we've had on the feed. I mean, I'm partial to our chat with Matt Wickel. I thought that was really good but a professional journalist sitting down with the greatest skier of our generation and one of the greatest skiers of all time. I was so shocked with how articulate he was. I mean, I know I shouldn't be but in English and he was very open and you ask such great point in questions. I mean, this isn't just going to be a gushing monologue by me about how great a journalistic job you did but I'm okay with that. You just keep going. Okay, well, I'll keep going a little bit. I think it shows our weakness which is like the, and we've talked about this off air but the whole tripod interview style thing over the internet is just awful. We get hate mail about it all the time recently as well. Our questions are long. We're interrupting each other. The connections are garbage. The, or my setups are garbage. I mean, we get it. We get it people and after you listen to this amazing interview with Claybo, you will also understand that perhaps we're going to have to try and look at a different way of doing things in the future but that said, awesome interview. I want to hear your 30 second drill, Park City. You're a lucky guy from heading down there. Yeah, I mean, I will say this was a real tough assignment that I was forced into by the real hard driving editors at fasterskeer.com to leave Alaska during like 10 consecutive days of rain and 50 degree, 10 degree temperatures as fall sets in. Yeah, flew to Salt Lake City on Thursday last week. Had some really great friends that I could stay with there and then drove up to Park City in my Mustang convertible which, you know, we did not pay extra. They asked me if a Mustang would suit my needs when I picked up the rental car and I was like, what if I say no, but I'm not going to say no. Yeah, I mean, it's just starting to be fall up there. I'd never been. I, you know, got a tour of Soldier Hollow from the folks who run that operation and it just, you know, aside from the utter lack of oxygen and my consequent like utter lack of ability to do any normal amount of athletic exertion. Beautiful spot. I mean, I think it's a really cool thing to see a lot of people who are coming from Finland, from Norway, from Sweden to hang out there. So yeah, and, you know, just like chill day with the Honest Clibo and his dad and a little bit of my dogfist and can't, the Bulger as folks will hear in a future episode and, you know, tough, tough, tough job. Somebody's got to do it right. For sure, I was shocked that you'd never been to Park City before and I was reminiscing hard one, even though the tripod interview is just also a pile of, well, that's more like a dumpster fire of disaster. I still would have loved to chat with Johannes, even though I mean, I've talked with Johannes bunch me. Or career, it's hard for you to even say our career is overlap because my career was just on a one way, take it to this awfulness when his was coming out, but we did race on the same circuit for a couple years there, the beginning of his woke up career in the tail end of mine. And then I'd worked with the Norwegian ski federation for a couple years in the wax team, mostly as like a ski, not mostly as a ski tester. So don't worry. The reasons the results are so good is I never powdered a single ski or applied one layer of group waxed any race skis, but did a lot of work actually with Johannes Clibo's ex technician, but oh, that you touched upon in your interview. And I thought he also answered that very, very poignantly and with a lot of class. And so I know how hard those guys work and I know how many pairs of skis Clibo has because I've tested racks and racks and racks and racks of Clibo skis in the years that I was helping up in Norwegian spare. But I'm always a great guy and I just thought I'd thought into a wonderful job in the interview. But Park City is, I was feeling very nostalgic listening to that interview. And of course, listening off air, you and I banter back and forth, but you're telling me how great Park City is. I was shocked you'd never been there before. Autumn in Park City is heaven on earth for a cross-country skier. Beautiful stable weather. The leaves are turning. The astins are starting to pop. Amazing roller skiing. And Clibo touches upon this in the interview too, not to bear the lead too, too much. But it is a pretty special place that you can find whatever type of terrain you're looking for. If you want to have flat, easy or rolling terrain at a decent altitude, you can find that in Park City. But if you want to go up some big mountain passes, and that's what I want to be on the interview, I guess. I want to essentially just dork out and talk about all the some of the nicest workouts I've ever done in my whole career. I've been lucky to travel the world with cross-country skiing. But some of the passes in and around Park City and some of the runs in the Wastach Mountains is phenomenal. They have phenomenal training venues. And it was really fun to hear the excitement in Johannes's voice when he was saying that, wow, this place really is paradise. And I look forward to coming back here. He's only been there three times, but that he's come back two years in a row here and really enjoying his time up in the thin air of Utah. But it's, it really is a wonder of the world if you're cross-country skier and dry land training. Much like Alaska, not. And Johannes Kleibo is missing a COVID wave that is taking out all of Norway right now. And also, yeah, eight degrees in pouring rain. I mean, I feel like every day since June has been eight degrees in pouring rain here in Norway. So Johannes, you made the right decision. And it's always the right decision to go to Park City in September. My favorite part of the day was at the very end. I was taking off and they were all sitting down to dinner. Johannes's dad and his physiotherapist and Johannes's girlfriend, Pernilla. And they were all like, goodbye, goodbye. And we all shook hands. And I like turned around the head of the door and everyone out there has all sat down to dinner. And they all would get up and go to wash their hands. I was like, yeah, I get it. So, yeah, we're going to be pro. Maybe we, maybe we ended there and we promised, you know, some more content, you know, coming from seeing from that visit and upcoming. Sure. I want to add, before we end it, I'm going to cut you off because that's what I do. Before we end it, I do want to ask you one, one thing. I guess there's a lot of things that we could do like another quick hit afterwards if people are interested, if not, whatever, send us emails. We'll answer them. But for me, one thing that did stand out to me that I just couldn't, there's two things actually. And then I'll let you go. Sorry, Matt. Okay. One. It's incredible to me that like Johannes Kleibot, we say this all the time, but he's the Conor McDavid, if you're into hockey, he's the LeBron James, if you're into basketball. He's the biggest thing in cross country skiing. And I, I just couldn't get over him describing how amazing it is. It's just so super speedy me living here in Norway where he's everything walking around in Park City. No one knows him. He does whatever he wants. Super chill. You heard how great he enjoyed that in the interview. You guys will hear that soon. And it was just blowing my mind just to think about that like how I know cross-connesty is a small sport. But in Norway, it doesn't feel like a small sport in Sweden. It doesn't feel like a small sport either. And just to hear his perspective, and I've heard that perspective with Peter. I've heard that perspective with my wife and. And. Thresio Hugg, of course, who's one of my wife's really good friends. And this is something that comes up again and again. But I thought it was interesting to hear that perspective from your honest. And then the other thing, I think that was just amazing to hear as I just ruined the whole podcast. I'm sorry. But I wanted to get you take on it. Think about this when he does these little community activation things, where he local kids get to come take pictures, do some cute little training with Johannes Kleibo. And my adalkoist in this year, no offense to a bulger, but sorry buddy, my adalkoist in Johannes Kleibo are the draw here. And it grew from last year to this year. But talk about exclusivity. Could you imagine if LeBron James showed up in Germany or Norway for that matter in some random high school gym, like a really nice high school gym and fly by the sea to the pants in 40 Norwegian basketball players, get to hang out and take pictures with LeBron James. Like, that's what's happening here. And I, I tip my hat to him to do that because he doesn't need to. He's not, he's not American. And also, it's just trippy to me to think about it. The best, the best in the biz do that. It's awesome. I, I so much respect. It was, it's amazing. I'm gonna, I'm gonna have like some more to say about this and I think we could talk about it on a future podcast. I also, you know, I'm kind of trying to save up some of my own like personal observations for something all right after I get done with sort of a journalistic stuff. But, you know, I will say like I, a couple things. One, you really got the sense from like everyone who Johannes and his family kind of have come into contact with in like Park City and the area that like these guys are just like particularly just as you said, like giving Johannes a stature in Norway like as a superstar, like an undeniable superstar, maybe the greatest. Just like the most chill like normal friendly dudes and you know, everyone that come into contact with is like, yeah, we like, we really love these guys are like, it's weird. They're just like, they're being really nice humans and like I, I honestly was like really sort of confused and like put off by it a little bit because, you know, I'll say some more about this later, but like, not to, not that this is like about, I didn't reach out to them. Like Johannes is bad reached out to me and he was like, hey, like are you still like working as a journalist in the US? Like do you want to come down here? Like we have some time, like we're here for this long and I just like, I still don't really get it. Like he could just be like doing his thing screen at least like he doesn't need press, he doesn't need anyone's attention. He doesn't really need anything and yet, you know, they really seem like they're making some efforts to like connect with people and just like are doing it in the real and sincere way. And I think for me, like as a journalist who's like, you know, just I have that sort of skeptical gene turned on all the time. It's just sort of like, what, why, what is the ulterior motive here? Like are they trying to like get back at the Norwegian National Ski Federation? Is it like something else? And I think, I think like the best as I can tell, having kind of directly asked them this question. Like, I think they're just excited to be here and excited to like connect and you know, build some energy in the like American cross country ski community. And like, I don't know, it's like not really for me to make a judgment about that, but like it's just, it's cool and it's interesting and it's surprising and it just was like very refreshing to like, you know, be so uncertain about like what to expect about meeting and having an opportunity to like talk with someone of like with this sort of high of a profile and just kind of discovering like, he's just like, like, your house, cause I was just like, he's pretty interesting dude, like, has a sense of humor. Very, very much so. And like, that's, that's it. Yeah, very much so. Very much so. And I mean, very, I mean, this sounds so ridiculous, but I guess I am 40 years old. He sharp. I mean, he was so articulate in the interview and, you know, when I've talked with you honestly lately, it's in Norwegian. Sorry, I'm sorry, honest and everyone that I'm in my origin. So work and progress. I was blown away by how articility was in English and very candid and I thought you did a wonderful job and I apologize to what we had 16 listeners. I guess that's what that's what. Yes, then I was hoping to get over 20 after the last interview and now I mean, with me being sick and on the sidelines and you actually conducting a proper interview with in depth and interesting questions. I mean, we could be up to 36 40, 40 perhaps after this and it just goes to show who the weak link of this whole thing is obviously it's me. Matt, thanks so much for doing it and to the listeners. Enjoy this one because this was this one with something else and it's not every day that you get to sit down in an interview like a true Hall of Famer and one of the greatest that ever lived in. I think there's a lot of great nuggets in here. I think there's a lot of great insights which is happening with an original national team and again, please send us emails. I've got a lot of thoughts on that but we'll just leave that again. We can come back to that in another episode, Nat too. But yeah, a lot of great insights and a wonderful job, Nat. I think yeah, super jealous, especially here with a fever in the rain of Norway. It's a bummer, but you know, I'm sure there'll be some more chances here. So yeah, thanks, Devon and enjoy the lesson and we'll be back soon. Shall we close the door or? Yeah, that is here. I have a list then. Good. Perfect. Okay. So I'm here with, I think it's safe to say, well, you know what, I was actually going to say, I'd like you to introduce yourself. Yeah, my name is Johannes Kleibo, cross-country skier from Trondheim, Norway. 26, soon 27 years old. Been in the World Cup circus now for six, five, six years. Been participating in two Olympic games, one in Pyongchang and last year in Beijing. And I mean, just a huge fan of skiing, I guess, and love my job. Yeah, me too. Well, I'll start by asking also, where are we? Yeah, so now we are in Utah, in Park City. So we're not in the house. Now in the house we are renting. We have been staying here now for almost a month. So yeah, it's mid-September and I mean, just looking outside the window now, it's full sky, perfect conditions for training and it's has been for the last months when we have been here now. So, yeah, it's perfect and I mean, it's pretty good to stay up in altitude here. It's quite similar to, you feel like you have the same environment as you have in Norway. It's just that you are staying in 2,2008 meters, I think we are right now. Yeah, I know because when I got here yesterday and I tried to go for a jog, it's just not good. You can feel it? Yeah, for sure. So one thing I was really curious about was when I came here, I was curious if you would have, do you know the word posse? Posse? Like, or entourage? Entourage? Yeah, yeah. Like a crew, like would it be like Johannes and his dad and his brother and like four PR people and masseuse and a chef? Who is here with you? No, so now my dad is here. He has been here with me the whole month. So he's kind of my crew. He is the chef. He is my driver. He helps me with taking the lactate. He is kind of doing everything for me here. So that's my crew and also Pernila, which is my growth run. She came last week and she is staying here for, yeah, the last 10 days. Of the day just for, because we are always staying away from each other all the time. So I think it would be nice for her to come here and see how beautiful I think it is here, because this is my second or third time here, but second time in the fall. And I just love the place. So it's great for her to come here and see this as well. And I also have Megan here, which actually lives here. She lives in Midway. And we're talking about this is Megan Stowe, who is an American physiotherapist who you've been working with for the past two years. No, last year actually. So I met her here last year. So we spent the two sessions here last year when I was here. And then I said, like, I would need to have her helping me more. And then she came to Livignol three or four weeks later. And she kind of stayed with me for three weeks back and forth a little bit during the season and helped me. Yeah, before the season started and also during the World Champs. So she has been helping me a lot the last past year. So I mean, it's been really good. and now it's perfect now to come over here again. We have kind of set up a good room here where we have the table for massages and we have like the laser and everything where we are working with. So it's working very well here. - But definitely, I mean, you know, I also thought it was funny I watched your video blog about coming here. It's like you are in the nice part of the airplane, but you're not in a private jet. It's like you're still just mostly doing normal person stuff and here with your family and that's kind of how it works. - Totally. I mean, I would say that we are pretty much down third. We're trying to do things easy. I mean, the best days that I can have during a stay like this is when I wake up early, I go out to him morning session coming in, relaxing. Then I go out for a second session. And I mean, my days will just be eat, train, sleep, those days are the world that's kind of value the most. But I mean, we are pretty easy people. I think we don't need much to be satisfied. And I mean, we are lucky that we're able to run this, it's a big house. It's a little bit bigger than we rented last year, but it's the same price and we kind of have a little bit more space. I mean, me and my dad traveling around 150 days a year. I mean, it's good to have at least a floor in between each other at some points. So I think it's working well here. And yeah, I think we really trying to just enjoy the time. And even though I know that proxy is a kind of expensive place, I just love the environment here and the training facilities is perfect. - It's not any more expensive than Norway. - Totally not. I think it's pretty much the same. So can you tell me a little bit more about like, this is your third trip here and like what inspired you to come here last year for the first time? - So the original plan was actually to come over here in August 2020, but cause of COVID and everything that plan needed to change. So we wasn't able to come over then, but I've just heard a little bit about it. And I just wanted to try something else. I know that when you're doing kind of high altitude training in Europe, you most likely stay kind of on the top of a pass, meaning you're either doing downhills or uphills. The best part here is that you're staying kind of, yeah, you're staying high, but you can also, I mean, my morning session this morning was pretty much a flat loop, which is amazing. So it feels like being in Tronheim and being in Norway doing like flat loops, you can do uphills, you can do downhills, you can do whatever, but you're staying high, which is the best part. And so I've just kind of heard about it and that was why I decided to, I wanna try something else. And I have good experience about traveling over and I felt like just having eight hours time difference from Norway could be good for a while. I think it's just amazing to, 'cause when we wake up here, we have some of my friends and stuff are awake, but when they kind of go to bed, I, it's not many people to talk to, so you kind of just being your own bubble and you kind of do the things you need to do. So I liked that part as well. And after being here last year for the first time, I said like, this is gonna be my place for altitude training, especially the trip in August, which I did the same this year. So, and I was here actually 10 days right after the season to spend 10 days I stayed at Megan's place and we did dates to 10 hours of treatments every day. So I, before this trip, this fall actually, I haven't been seeing the main street in Park City. So last year I was in the table, I just did training and was, when I was here in Megan in this spring, I was pretty much too tired to do anything. So I just wake up in the morning, did I barely did the training session either? I'll just, the treatments went to bed again. That was how, how my stay was. But I mean, it's, I'm liking the places, a lot, really. - Has anybody like outside of the skiing context here, like has anyone recognized you in the grocery store or like in a shop? - No, no one, which is a good thing. I liked that part. We actually was out last year, I was out doing some golfing and we kind of got paired up with two randoms, I guess. And I mean, when you're playing 18 holes, of course, together with two randoms, it's obviously starting to talk to them. So they were like, what are, ask me what I'm doing here and I said I'm here in a training camp and stuff like that. And we kind of just spoke to each other during the 18 holes and on this 17 or 16th hole, they like, so what's your name, your cross country ski? What's your name? And I said my name and she was like, I want to Google, yes, I said, you can do that. That's, that's okay. And she Googled me and she was like, on the whole 18, was like, holy shit. I mean, and I was like, yeah, that's me. I've been, we've been golfing now, it's everything's fine. And it's not like that, but it's actually pretty nice. I like being here, it's just quiet and easy and. Which is very different from what you were like in Norway, I imagine these days. Totally. It's, I mean, it isn't that it's a problem in Norway there. I mean, I feel like people are pretty easy when it comes to that part, but still it's just easier here 'cause I don't need to even think about things here. I can just do my own thing. And that's really good. Yeah. So, one other thing I guess I'm curious about too, is like it sounds like you, I mean, you did a, you have sort of connected with the skiing community here, like you did a camp, a little camp for kids one day with Kevin Bolger, the American skier in my dogfist, the Swedish Olympic medalist. And then also it sounds like you've been able to like, find some people to train with too. Totally. So it all started last year actually. I met Luke Jagger, which has become a friend of mine. And Daniel Fisher, which is a friend of him, and like they met them last year during my stay here, and I joined them for a kind of a football match. I stayed at their place, did some barbecue, we did out doing a biking session and had a lot of fun. So it all kind of started there. And since kind of, it's been this year, I don't know, Luke moved to Alaska and stuff like that. We kind of haven't been training much with people, but I have still some friends here, which has been a part of Utah ski college. Yeah. So for me to just meet them, it's been real good. And also with the kids camp, that was kind of my suggestion last year. When I was here, I said to my dad, like we should try to gather the kids here and see if we can kind of have a short little gathering and we'll kind of just talk to them and have a training session. So last year was kind of last minute call for me. We probably tried to plan it on a Monday and everything was happening on the Saturday. We were probably 25, 30 kids, I don't know how many of us, we were a lot of them. And this year I said to my dad, like before we went to like, this year we need to plan it. So kind of, you can tell everyone in the area that. We're going to do things. So this year it was probably like 40 and 50 people, which is twice as many as last year. And it was really nice for Kevin and Maya to join us. Well, they came in the day before and I asked them if they wanted to join, which was super nice. So I think the kids had a great day. We had a great day. It was a lot of fun seeing the kids. We did the relay. We did kind of a really cool training session. Everyone got to get pictures, autographs. Someone was there giving them out ice cream. So I mean, it was a huge success. And I love to see the kids and how happy they are. Even though I'm in the facilities here, at Soldier Hollow is pretty amazing. And I think you have really good potential here to get some new upcoming skiers. And it's also important for us while we are here to try to give a little bit back when we have the chance. Yeah, cool. One thing that seems really interesting to me is like, you don't have a coach here. Like, my understanding is like your grandfather has kind of always been your coach. But I also can sort of observe that, OK, eight-hour time difference. He's not here. Are you pretty much your own coach at this point? I want to say that I'm my own coach. But I mean, before I went here, me and my granddad was sitting together and kind of plan things. So if things feels normal and my body is kind of in balance, you will kind of do 96 hours for the next 27 days. That's kind of-- of how we did it and we'll we split it in like we're gonna do nine or ten interval session so and I also when I'm here now I speak with him almost every day like so the first thing I do in the morning I'll call him and just say about how things feels and how my body are and stuff like that so so I won't say that I'm my own coach but I have a lot of kind of things if I want to say that I don't think we should train today that's that's the last word counting you know I always have the have the last word but I mean I think it's works pretty good with my granddad because we have this amazing relationship we know each other really well we have a lot of good discussions so just before I did the morning session here I could call him and ask him about something and then I will go out to do what now that can be like I asked him about how much sugar we're kind of gonna eat during a training session I mean you can have those kind of discussions yeah like because you want to have one or two solids during a training session and I just asked him about that we we spoke a little bit about it and then it can take like two two three hours and then I'll just receive an email from him which is like I don't know it's a pretty long email and he has kind of gone through reading about it and like gone through a lot of different science and stuff like people with good experience with this part or the other and like kind of figure out what he thinks is is the best way and that can be basically everything you can be from like I said sugar or it can be if I asked him about doing it to what do you think about blood volume you know those kind of things it can be like just we're weird things I guess just really small things but still he's just going through things and I'll receive a long email do you does anyone like do you do any work on like your technique like does anyone take video of you here and you send it or at this point it's okay I mean so when I'm back in Norway my granddad normally joins every interval sessions that I have so then he kind of look at every techniques and we kind of work on it during the intervals while I'm here we do some filming my dad films me and I'll send some over but I mean at some point it's also going to be good to have like a month break of like always working on those technique parts so but I mean last year as well he joined my granddad was able to join in the Vignol which was a lot of fun and then he's just because that was when we first did skiing and like back on snow yeah and then it's very good to have him there because then it's like he will be there from the very start and we'll not do this and this for for the technique and we we kind of work our work us through it but yeah I think it works works fine actually and I mean in this world right now with the technology we have now it's it's pretty easy to just deliver a video and stuff like that do you I mean do you feel like you're at a point or maybe I don't know this has always been the case for you where you know your body and your training well enough to like know when to step back or push harder like I was talking with Luke Boat and Steiner who is a former American Olympic cross-country skier and also now works with Soldier Hollow here and he was describing how you're approached during like an interval workout where basically you were just incredibly dialed in with like how fast you're doing a loop and exactly what your lactate would be and he just was kind of stunned by how in tune you were with like your body and your level of exertion and I don't know is that something that you feel like you've kind of always had or is it something that you feel like you've kind of gotten a level of confidence about you know as you've gotten older I think it's actually a little bit of both I guess because when I was younger I felt like I struggled a little bit with that part I feel like one of my main strength right now is that I'm able to if I wake up one day and I'll kind of insert if I'm gonna train or not then I'm not that uncertain you know I'll skip the session and I kind of know when my body needs recovery that's like a hard thing is a young athlete though right because that's always the worst you mean you always want to kind of just keep pushing and always trying to get better and at some point the best decision you can make is probably to take an easy session you know or just just lay on your bed for a day or two those kind of things is always important to learn and I felt like I learned that a lot when I was like 19 years old I had a year where I got sick almost every second week so I could train for two weeks sick for a week train two weeks sick for a week and that's just kept going for a year so just trying to figure out how you can kind of because you can train as hard as you want but if you don't recover well enough doesn't help I mean those kind of things is really important but when it comes to doing training sessions and feel the pace feel your lactate and feel your pulse heart rate everything I mean those kind of things I felt like this has become something that I also like to kind of dig into you know so I'm doing a session I want to kind of always guess my lactate on my next kind of lap and for people who are listening who maybe don't totally understand this it's like your lactate is that's it's like a that's lactative acid that builds up when you're working hard and it's basically a measure of how hard you're taxing your body totally so like a good or a normal session like that can be six times ten minutes and you're doing the same lap every single lap and then you can kind of you measure your lactate every ten minutes and then you kind of get some answers about how how you kind of feel and it's it's a good I think heart rate is good the measurement to use but I think also especially up in the altitude like here it's it's way better to use the lactate so I try to use that a lot and I feel like trying to learn your body and get to know your body as good as possible that's something you as an athlete really need to be aware of I guess yeah absolutely so what are you expecting like what are your goals for this winter and how much uncertainty do you have about what you're even going to be doing this winter oh I mean there's certainly is probably the biggest questions I mean right now I don't know yet hopefully the plan is to do walk-ups and participating there that's my goal and I also think we'll manage to to do that as well but I mean my goal this year is is for sure Taurus ski is important I'm going to do everything I can there to to be as well prepared as possible then you also have like a really cool race in in Tronline which is where I where I live so you're gonna have a walk-up week and there the week before Christmas and then we are going to U.S. which is gonna be U.S. and Canada which is gonna be really cool I won my first distance race in Quebec in Canada so going back to Canada and to do a walk-up race is there and then for the first time in my career doing walk-up races in in U.S. it's gonna be it's gonna be huge I heard they were sold out to take it some four or five minutes or something like that so that's gonna be a wild experience I guess in case you didn't know I live in Alaska but I did these interviews in soldier hollow Utah which I was only able to do thanks to the generous support of those who have already participated in our voluntary subscription program at faster skier if you enjoyed this interview and want more similar content like it from this winner say from the Minneapolis or Canmore World Cups we urge you to subscribe you can do so at faster skier.com/support thank you is it fair to say this year is a little bit like less pressure and you can try some new things like being here for as long as you will be and maybe some other stuff too with with the understanding that like you really want to have stuffed out in for trombime world championships in 2025 and Olympics in 2026 yeah that's fair to say I think I think you can lower your shoulders a little bit this year I'm doing everything I can for sure to be as well prepared as possible but I won't be there like I think I can try different things during the season because I feel like I find the found a way that that works for me when it comes to kind of doing the altitude training so the biggest difference this year is gonna be a lot of competitions I'll probably if things feels okay and my body is paying attention and being in a being I guess I'll try to do every welcome race. But I mean it's so many factors that's hard to tell that early but I feel like for me everything that's in my mind right now it's the World Champs in 2025 in Tronheim. I mean I would rather lose every single race this year to just win one race in Tronheim. So this is where you live and grow through up. It's where I live and I've lived there for now 21 years. Out of 26? Out of 26? Out of 26? Yeah, 22 years. I mean the race is going to be 5 kilometers from where I live. I mean I do most of my training in the area where the race is going to be. So I think it's fair to say that that is my main goal and I'll do everything I can this year as well. I mean still being in the altitude I'm still training 100 plus hours a month but still everything that's in my mind is next year so what's happening in 25? So I think I'll try to do everything right for what's coming next I guess. Does 20/25 in some ways feel almost more important to you than Olympics the next year? Similar. That's at least similar. I probably think that the 25 in Tronheim will be one of my most important weeks of my life I guess. So yeah, I think it's fair to say. And then we have a lot of Olympics in Europe again which is going to be super nice. I mean we have been over to I mean to Pyongchang in Beijing now so it's good to actually hold one Olympics in Europe and yeah I think that will be a huge experience as well. Yeah. So that we maybe you know the saying that elephant in the room this is your situation with the national team. I've read some stuff from translation through Google and I think I probably know as much as like your average Norwegian citizen maybe not as much as your average like Norwegian ski fan or journalist but I don't know it's funny like to me as a journalist this feels like a sensitive question but actually it also seems like maybe this is something you feel like people don't have a good understanding of and you kind of want to share your perspective. So like what is the story there like why is this not working? I should say basically the issue is for your whole career up to now you've been part of the Norwegian national team run by the Norwegian National ski Federation and this year basically you and the national team have not been able to reach an agreement for you to continue and it's maybe each side has an opinion about why and so yeah I'm interested to hear about this. Totally and I have been speaking a little bit about it like to some Norwegian media as well and I feel like for me it's important to say that this doesn't have anything to it's not about kind of economics part I mean I would probably be in a better economic position being on the national team rather than staying outside as I'm doing right now. So this is more up to kind of I'll just say it a little more clearly like it's not about the money. It's not about money not at all. It's all about for me it's all about values it's about how we are treating people and those two factors are for me really really important it's something that I'm kind of always been working out of I guess because for me it's important to take care of the people you have around you and a good example is it's kind of been to so this year they struggle a little bit so they two days before the team was supposed to be presented they kind of kicked two people out of the team. They called Dijertone Seth and who is the center of the card right and said that you guys are not taking part of the team even though both of them have woke up podiums this year which is pretty where I guess no one else has or no other national teams has kind of kicking out people with podiums but I mean it's nothing wrong about saying that you don't have space for everyone that's that's fair enough but it's about how you do things it's about when you do things and I mean two days before things is going to be presented I feel like that is a little bit short term I mean as an athlete you or a skier you have like April which is an important month if you're not going to be a part of the team because you need to kind of find you can need to set a plan for your training you need to kind of book places where you're going to stay you need to find a vaxer you need to all those kind of things that are a part of the national team you need to figure out yourself and by waiting that long you kind of take that take that chance or I feel like you just give them not enough time to figure out those kind of questions they need to figure out and that's just an example about how things are and I feel like you need to do kind of treat people in a good way and if you're going to do that you need to kind of be open you need to have some values from from your bottom of your heart I guess which I don't think they have right now I feel like they're kind of balancing on a line and just taking really short term decisions without thinking about the athletes I feel like the athletes are coming way behind in the line which I don't which I think is wrong so it's those kind of things that have been really important for me to say and which I was one of the reasons why I said like okay right I will be good by not being the part of the national team I'm going to do the altitude here I'm going to do altitude next month in Livigno meaning I won't be a part of a lot of training camps anyways and the rest of the guys is not going to do altitude meaning okay then it's better for me to give my spot to Dydrik or Sindre for them to kind of have the chance to join the team on training camps and for them to kind of have because they at least going to join way more than I'm going to do so that was a pretty easy decision when I first made a decision and I feel pretty good about the decision I made I felt like if I feel right now it's that it was the right decision and yeah hopefully I'm not saying no to the national team in the future I think that the national team is a good team team I just think that it's important that athletes need to be prioritized and that the federation and the leaders in the federation needs to get some more values into their mindset of working if not I think they will kind of destroy everything that's my thinking. Low stakes here. If I was the representative of the Norwegian ski federation and we were having a negotiation right now and I had the contract printed out and I said Johannes signed on the dotted line what would be the things that are part of the contract that you would say like this needs to change before I will you know come back and be a part of this. I mean for me it's been important to say that I've been working about like the athletes right for a long time and that's always something that I think it's important I think that it's I want to for sure help the national team I think it's important for the national team to have athletes and athletes needs to help the federation with the sponsoring things they need to join for different gatherings all those kind of things I'm totally aware about and I am feeling good about joining those kind of things because I know it's important but I also think it's important for the federation to understand that the athletes has some rights as well and it's important for the athletes to be able to do the things based on the athletes values as well and those kind of things it's important for me to have having a contract for for me to could have signed that one. I mean can you give me an example of that is it sounds like there's some question about if you want to do events or camps or also to have like sponsorships outside the national team structure right now is that a pretty difficult thing. It could be it could be hard it depends though I mean you can always find ways but it's I mean you which is natural though you can't kind of have a competitive if you if the federation has an agreement with the Coke you can't sign a Pepsi. No that's right but it sounds like part of the issue is that like right now if you're an athlete and you're signing up for the national team like basically you're you're agreeing to sort of be part of their structure and their represent their sponsors and it's some little like that limits what you can do outside of that and also like the way that the national team is compensating you, like it's like 30,000 euros a year. It's not like, and I understand that this is sort of an issue for you personally, maybe as someone who can attract like lots of sponsors, but also just an issue for the team in general, where like people, the biggest like sports stars in Norway should maybe have more of an opportunity to like go outside of the national team structure to be able to like earn a living. Is that part of it? - I mean, for me personally, it's here as well. It's not that much about the money actually. It's more about if I kind of have some values which is important for me, and the federation is going in an agreement, we kind of, and brand which I totally can kind of represent. I mean, it's wrong based on my values. Those kind of things is the things I feel like the worst, 'cause then you're kind of put in a corner and you need to kind of decide, you know? And for me, it's important that kind of, that the athletes has some values they stand for, and if that's kind of being wrong by having an agreement with one of the federation's kind of sponsors, I feel like it's at least the athletes' words should be heard from the federation as well, which I don't feel like it is right now. So I think it's a hard balance, 'cause I feel like I always want to, I know how much I've loved to be a part of the national team when I was younger and stuff like that. Right now I feel like it's been more kind of taking energy from me, 'cause it's just so many factors which I feel is wrong, 'cause I've always been really into, and it's always been important for me about how I treat people, my values, what I stand for, stuff like that. Which people probably don't understand. I know that it's always a balance, but. Like just to give an example of that, like it seems like last year there was an issue with the A-Play, where it was like, you had an issue with the way that they were a sponsor of the national team, but also covering you like, editorially, and that wasn't, you weren't cool with that, and basically like, you know, there was like, races where you actually taped over, just didn't put the, I didn't put a logo, you know, and I was, for me that time it was, 'cause I felt like I want to, when I'm speaking to the media, I want to speak to the media like an athlete, and I want to be kind of free, I don't want me to be like people, and the media start questioning my kind of, how to say that. - Integrity? - Kind of, yeah, 'cause we have an agreement with another kind of media brand, which is, which I think is really important, and what I said like then is like, for me, I don't, I think this is wrong. I totally understand why the Federation is signing the agreement, but for me it's wrong. I don't want to have that kind of logo on my, on my racing suit, but, so that was some discussions, and that's just the next example. - Yeah, and it seems like the main sort of takeaway here is like, you know, not to, not that this is something, it's like you're at this point, like you can kind of stand on your own, and if you're gonna be part of like a national team structure, you wanna feel like the English word, we would use this sort of reciprocal relationship, or like you're bringing a lot to them, and they really should be, you know, they don't have to do everything you want, but at least they should be treating you sort of with like, respect and bringing, you know, listening to the ideas that you're bringing to the table, and it feels like right now that's like, - For me, it will be like a give or give and take, and now this year didn't feel like that. It felt like I was way too many factors that I was like, okay, and now we are on, we don't have any kind of championship this year, I felt like, okay, if it's a year to try this, I'm to at least say no, I think this is the year, this is my way to say, 'cause I have tried to be a part of it now for four years, and I've tried to kind of give feedbacks, I have tried to get involved in stuff, which I think can for sure help things, and I'm not saying that I have kind of the result in all things better than they do, totally not, but I feel like at some point, when I think that also she'd kind of hear my thoughts as well, and that was why I said, okay, this is my way of kind of taking this, just to say that this is wrong though. I mean, instead of just saying yes, it one more time and saying on the media press conference, they're saying yes, I'm super happy and super satisfied with being a part of the national team, when I know that that's not through, I felt like this was wrong, so I think it's better for me to just say no to the national team now, and hopefully we can make this like a change, and that can be better for an expo, so that's my goal. - Can I put like a finer point on the question of money because it does actually seem like understanding the things that you're saying, and my understanding of the way that the ski team works, like in a normal year, if you were with the ski team, if you were doing their camps, they would be paying for your camps, they also would pay for your wax technician and your transportation. This year, presumably you will be on your own and paying for all of that yourself, and correct to say that it's not like all of a sudden, because you're not part of an original national team, you have signed like eight endorsement deals. Like, do you think it is, like can you say with some amount of confidence that you probably will earn less money this year being outside of the structure, or is maybe it's a little more complicated than that? - I think it's more complicated, 'cause I think I'll probably, kind of, I don't know how to say those, but like last year, the federation is kind of, they agreement with that they pay for my altitude camps. So this camp would be natural for the federation to pay for, this year I'm paying for this myself, you know? And so, and I feel like, also with being the part of the national team, I can sign agreements with sponsors and stuff like that, even though I'm a part of the national team. So it really depends if I feel like I can, if I have time to do sponsorships or stuff like that. So I would say right now with how things has become and how things have been, I'm probably, I would say, probably losing like a little bit about being outside right now, but that can change. I mean, if I decide to do kind of agreement with someone or I kind of find that it could be cool to do a sponsorship with someone that can kind of change, but still that same sponsorship I could have done, even though I was a part of the national team. So it's still a bit hard, but I for sure spend way more, I have more expenses this year than I had last year, that's for sure. Are the relationships that you have with the people in the Norwegian ski federation and the ski team, are those kind of broken in a way that like they can't be fixed easily? Or do you think it's like everyone's taking a little bit of a break now, but the relationships are good enough that maybe in the middle of the season or the end of the season into next year that like it could be easy enough, or is it like maybe some of the people in those roles need to change before you're ready to come back? No, I think it's, I feel like my relationship to that, my teammates, you know, it's really good. I feel like that one is, I would have love to be a part of the national team because I love to have those teammates around. But I think it's fair to say that it's some of the, some of the roles and I have some kind of, we have had a lot of discussions, that's for sure. But I think it's important to say that I'm not kind of, I'm not being angry for a long time, you know, I don't have any problems with having discussions and that we are disagreeing about something. I don't think that kind of ruins relationship. I think that can, if you do things right and if you have some kind of, if you are a little bit kind of, how to say that, down to earth, but you're like humble enough, I think having discussions and disagreements will build the relationship in a better way. But if you are being more arrogant, I think that's hard, you know? So I actually think it's the pencil a bit about how, I'm feeling good about kind of, I even have no problem with going back to the national team and just going back to things, if things can change. I mean, that's important for me to see changes and see that things is going in a better way. - But not necessarily like Espenbirvig or the head of the ski federation, more like just about the way that the relationship works. - Yeah, what I miss from Espenbirvig and from the federation is I miss leaders that stands for something, that's have some values and that they're not afraid of taking some difficult decisions. Right now, I feel like the worst thing I feel like it's I have this motto which is only that fish follows the river and that's how I feel things are right now. I think we are going a little bit too much. The speed on the river is a little bit too high right now and I feel like the the the federation and the leaders not right now are are sleeping a little bit so we are kind of going the opposite direction. We what we want to do is we want to kind of develop the ski cross country skiing we want it to be better we want it to be cooler I guess so I think it's important to say that I have no problem with coming back and I would love to sit down and kind of I love to have these agreements I have no problems with having these agreements it's just that if we're being humble and not arrogant I think this will be fixed in no time how are you how are you doing you are how's it you do should we check your lactate I think my lactate is probably higher now than it was doing six times ten minutes lighter better faster the new speed max helium ski from Fisher is the ultimate in race ski technology the speed max helium skate plus features a bidirectional air core and a redesigned world cup tip helping this revolutionary ski weigh in at less than nine hundred fifty grams paired with the new speed max boot Fisher's speed max helium skis keep you staying stronger during your next long ski and can help you drop time during your next big race learn more about the new speed max helium system at Fisher Sports dot com remember skiing is in the lifestyle it's life right now there is a little bit of uncertainty I mean you don't have like there's a rule that says if you're not part of the national team you can't ski in world cups that hasn't changed yet it seems like eventually it's probably gonna change before the season but I like that it seems like right now you do have the option to race for petanortis the world-opened team is that is that could you see yourself actually doing that this this winner yeah that's my B plan you know so my A plan is to do the woke ups and if that's not going to work I feel then I'm guessing I'm joining him and then it will be yeah then I will be like a helping writer for petanorta it would be the Domestique yeah I did forget to ask I have one more question about the national team which is like I'm an outsider right like I don't live in Norway I don't necessarily have a great impression of like how things are supposed to work or how things have historically worked but and it does seem like historically there has been a fair amount of drama with the national team and the ski federation however you look at the last couple years and like there have clearly been like some big problems like the way that the women said that they were sort of treated and felt like they were disrespected during the Beijing Olympic Games the chaos around the team selection this year also around the selection for some of the races in in Planita and then now like your former wax technician is out there in the press basically basically saying like the Norwegian wax bus was like a homophobic environment like your skis like repair your best skis got trashed and he was like this is in the process of him being laid off I don't know a ton about that but what I do know as like an outsider looking in and someone who like just professionally watches stuff this is a mess and like is do you agree with that like does it feel like a mess totally and that's like I said it's all about how we're treating people it's about the values we are saying for like what's what is important for us and as a leader it's really important that you kind of see those things and take kind of actions when things isn't good enough and that's where I felt feel like things has been really not good enough for for the last part and I feel like these things is just good examples about how because because I have I felt like it's it's really comes down to the values and it just comes down to how we treat people and that's I mean we're people everywhere else are people and we like to be in good environments we like to be with people who gives us energy and treating us well and when the opposite is happening I mean that doesn't give a good working environment which is really important we are doing we're working with athletes everyone here is trying to be as good as they can we kind of we do everything we do is based on least amount of kind of energy leaks you know so everyone is doing their best and I think then it's really important to have someone on top there kind of being in the front and actually showing some actions I feel like that is that is important so I'll let you off the the hook here and just like a couple minutes there but there are a couple other things I wanted to ask you one is 10 years term now you retire you look back on your career like what are the accomplishes that like you think or you want to be most proud of that's a good question but I mean I have some already which I think I always will be kind of proud of even though I feel like it's both sides I mean the World Shabs in 21 why not I decided to okay I don't want to make that was a 50k I got disqualified on the last yeah I don't know 100 meters this was like a now famous incident with there's a sort of collision with Bolshunov and then Everson got elevated from bronze to gold metal yeah at least it was a fellow Tronheim guy right or Northern guy but I mean because the fun part is that they changed the rules a year after I was being a part of the being part of the kind of athletes who joined their meetings and stuff like that and they they changed the rules after that incident to so if that of what that happened again I will probably be sending their video to go metal but I mean now looking back at that time and also the decision for me to say that I don't want to go to court with this and say like okay I'll take the disqualification and I start looking forward I think that is probably one of the moments where I will look back and say like okay I'm pretty glad I did that because for me skiing and sports has always been about emotions about kind of when I'm crossing the finish I want to know that I'll have one deraise you know I don't want to go to court to win deraise so everything just felt wrong at that time right now it would be kind of nice to just have a walk up or a wall champ go metal in from the 50k but on the other hand I think it's again based on values and I guess I can say that I'm proud that I made that decision even though it hurts sometimes when people say like you don't have a go metal from any wall champs or Olympic goals from like go mills in distance racing still I know that I was pretty close that day and yeah so so I feel like that one is for sure a moment where I felt like right now I some days I feel like I did the wrong choice I know with not going to court but when I look back I think I made a right choice do you think I mean if you look forward as far as like you know what the next five or ten years of your career will look like it's sort of what you want the legacy of that period of your career to be yeah I mean Trone will be important the same with the Olympics in 26 I mean those two years will be pretty significant for for my kind of I don't know legacy I don't know but it's it will for sure for me it means a lot to do too well in those two to events so I'm gonna for sure work as hard as I can for those two and then we'll see I mean 10 years from now it's a long time it's hard to say if you'd ask me 10 years ago if I would said like you will be sitting in Utah and kind of have the results that I have had right now I would said like I don't believe you so I feel like I guess I'm actually more curious about like it seems like it's some level you have a little bit of a vision to change the sport a little bit and and so like if you're successful in that like you know how would the sport look different I mean I've said earlier that I think we can start looking at different sports and see what we can learn from them I mean in we have encycling it's they do the wall champs there as well for none for Norway but I mean in their wokeups they're doing from private teams I mean I just have some thoughts it's hard to say that if it would work in skiing or not but I I love to I hate when people are being too satisfied. I love to try to look forward, try to see different options, look at different things and see what we can kind of work on to become better and to get the sport cooler, I guess. So those kind of things is always important for me and I think I will still working on those parts. Now I made my decision to not be a parallel national team. We'll see how that goes. It can be a step in the direction, I don't know. It wasn't my plan when I started this. My plan was just to say that I think the federation is doing a lot of wrong things now. But on the other hand, I think like I mean, Pedernortic did it some years ago. I think it's it's a lot of different options of their outer and you can just I don't think we should be satisfied. I just think we should kind of work more and be that you know the fish swimming against the river. I think that's like how I like to look at things. As in the last game, I can relate to this with our salmon. But my last question and this is just a sort of a privilege for me just to watch television and then you know it's like my job to come down here and ask you things that I'm curious about. It's really tough. It's a tough job. But we talk a lot on the podcast about your ability to ski corners better than anybody else. Sometimes like in a way that just makes everyone else look stupid. And I think I think a little bit about there was I think it was the course at in Valmustere this year where there was like a huge berm. And everyone is like sliding around the berm and Johannes is stepping on the far side of the berm in a way that just like makes everyone else look like kids. And it's I think you know there other there are other ways like you use corners in a way where like other people just sort of navigate them and like you use them to generate speed. And I just want to review you can talk about that a little bit like how much how much you work on that and how much that's natural and like what you do to work on it and just how much of a focus that is for you because to me it's very noticeable. I think it's for sure a little bit of it's natural. But on the other hand I think to say that though it's it's important for me to kind of start where it all started and I think when I was like 10 years old plus from 10 to 15 or probably earlier like 5 to 15 I mean those 10 years what I did was like I love to be out skiing. I did a lot of jumping like we my granddad made a jump I did a loop I went over jumped and did like loops and loops and loops because I didn't I didn't think it was that much fun to just go out skiing but I love to jump you know so but then I started working we had a lot of competitions in my club like my local club so what we did was like when we started this East we always went to one place in Sweden where it was early snow we stayed in cabins we kind of ate a lot of potato chips and candy and stuff like that you know but we were trading basically what you do now basically what I'm doing now but we did two hours two hours probably in the morning and two hours in the afternoon like skiing and all we did was like we had so many competitions like relays we had we had this really long downhill and the competition was who can stay on one leg as long as possible or one ski as long as possible so we kind of worked on our balance all the time we did a lot of kind of competitions which I think was really healthy and good um so that was probably where that kind of can you say playfulness I mean the playfulness of of skiing because that has been kind of really important for me to I like to play on skis I like to try different things I like to learn different things learn new things uh and that was what we did when I was younger and I kind of just developed that part and brought that into my career um so so right now I feel like you can you can look at different other sports you can look at cycling you can look at formula one you know it's a lot of different sports that has a lot of terms where you can kind of look at but on the other hand I feel like it's so different from what you're doing in skiing so what I've tried to do is just that I've tried a lot of different turns and I just love to I take my choices based on that turn by my gut now you know so I feel like I kind of have worked so much into it so I kind of can by looking at the corner I can say like okay I'm gonna take that corner on the outside inside you know instead of taking it in the middle stopping the skis up and just take the corner I'll try to go outside and just go inside those kind of things is now easier than it was but I think for me it all started with playing and that's something I just brought into my career as well now. Was your did your grandfather? Did he have like an ulterior motive? Do you know what that means? Like uh did he have a master plan that this was gonna make you you know better at cornering than than Kiko Pelagrino when you were a world cup skier-acer or he was just like you know I want to be outside with my grandson and have fun and it happens to kind of build this skill. I think the last thing I think for sure he I don't think he had like a goal for me to be the best possible cross-conterscreen I think his goal was for me to enjoy skiing have a lot of fun and to just be outside you know just to enjoy being in the nature and stuff like that and I think that's where we kind of started and by me loving to be outside and enjoying skiing so much ended up with me getting getting into skiing and being a kind of an athlete myself and I think it's it's pretty cool cool story because we really really started local and small and it was just all happening really fast and I think we have for sure been lucky on the way but still we have been working really hard especially the last last years. Yeah well your dad is here to check your lactate level now so we'll say thank you for joining us to Hans Kago the you know probably the most high profile guest we've had on the television show I don't know like we've had some American friends but you know it's it's uh we're we were we were willing to have you as a guest here so thank you for having me thanks for sticking with us we'll be back