Joe List

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I'm going to be at the Punchline in San Francisco, Halloween weekend. I think it's all sold out, but there is a waiting list. Then I'm down in Brea Improv. Brea, come out and see your boy. Tempe Improv, my return to Arizona State University. Two shows I think are already sold out. Grab those tickets. Then I go to Hammond, Indiana, down at the Horseshoe during the week before Turkey Day. I'm in Windsor, Ontario, Canada in the new year. Bethlehem, PA. God bless. Hanover, Maryland. The Borgata in Atlantic City, New Jersey is selling fast. I love you. Thank you, Atlantic City. Then Harris in Valley Center, which is by San Diego. That's my little homage to Bobby. Canyonville, Oregon for Lovers Day for February 14th, V-Day. And then I'm at the Wynn Casino in Las Vegas. The Wynn, I'm excited to come back out to Las Vegas. Go get your ticket to andrewsantino.com. andrewsantino.com. We pour whiskey, whiskey, whiskey, whiskey, whiskey. You are that creature in the ginger beard. Sturdy and ginger. Like vampires, the ginger gene is a curse. Gingers are beautiful. You owe me $5 for the whiskey and $75 for the horse. Gingers are hell no. This whiskey is excellent. Ginger. I like gingers. No, no, I do remember that. No, dude, fuck you. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Whiskey Ginger. My guest today is one of my favorite people on Earth. I say that for all my guests, but I mean it once again today. It is Joe List. Who right away pissed me off. Who came into the studio with an uncharged phone and a charger from 1999. Well, you. And he's wet. Fucked me. I did. I fucked you a little bit. You changed the time. Well, it's good. I like the time. Big time change. It's great. I knew you were going to change the times. I could tell right away. You could feel it. What day are you staying? And I was like, oh, fuck me hard. But, so I have two hotels currently. I'm doing very well. Yeah. I'm working in Irvine, California, which is like an hour or fucking seven hours if you leave at the wrong time. It depends on where you live. And when you leave. And so I came back to Hollywood and I forgot all my stuff. I didn't bring a phone charger. I didn't bring a change of clothes. But I did you a favor because A, you got to have dinner with a friend. Yes. Then you get to see me. And then you get to beat traffic on the way back down. Yeah. So you're welcome. You're welcome. You're welcome. And I beat traffic last night. I came back after the show. And I got a fucking intense workout in. What did you do? A HIIT class? What kind of HIIT class? It was, I don't know, Equinox. I go to Equinox. I'm just throwing all my success. Two hotels. Go to Equinox. How you doing, folks? Go to Equinox, folks. Jesus. Do not support him. Don't go see him live. He doesn't need your money anymore. He's going to Equinox and he has two hotels in every city. Well, I didn't pay for one of the hotels. And you, I think you owe me for the second hotel. Yeah, here. It was $850. The Ziggy Hotel? No, no. It's $200. Yeah. But I didn't bring any of my shit. And I took a workout class. Your friend and mine, Karen Feehan, you know her, Karen. Yeah. Close friend of mine, babysitter, neighbor, best buddy. Rumors that we're having an affair. We're not. She's my wife's friend. She's my friend. Let's start it right now. Internet. Let's not start it. It's been going. Let's keep it moving. Karen Feehan and Joe List, big affair. She's the babysitter. Unrequited comedy love. Keep that ruminating around the internet, guys. Let's get that moving. No, no. It's really moving very much. Who started this? Like the internet said it once and then you fucking thought it was real? No, no. People start, well, there's, you know, there's, you know, certain internet guys that go out and do a thing. Is she friends with your wife? She's very close with my wife. But my wife had a great life. She goes, if you guys are having an affair. Egg on my face. Because the three of us just hang out all the time. She watches our baby. Egg on my face. But, uh, but anyway, so she's a big workout freak nut maniac and I have my gym membership and she's like, let me go use your thing. She's like, let's take a class. She signs us up for a class. I'm a sweaty fucking mess. I killed it. And then I didn't bring another shirt. It's okay, buddy. So you gave me this purple shirt. It was, yeah, these are our test shirts from Uniqlo to see if we want them. We want to print on them. What do you think? I don't think we're going to use it. Yeah, it's not great. Well, it doesn't breathe. It's very firm. It's very firm. But that's, that's kind of their style. That's like new young kids like stiff. We're old, dude. What are you, what are you, how old are you now? 43. Fuck. How old are you? Same. Yeah, 42. Yeah. Doesn't it suck? I think it's okay. No, I just think what's weird is that I'm re-reminded of it all the time. Like when I go somewhere in the comedy world, I'm like, oh fuck, we are getting much older. Because I see like the young clicks of young comics and all that shit. And I'm like, mm, man, we are getting older. Yeah. Because I remember looking at the older guys when we were in our 20s and making fun of them. Right. By like their wet shirts. You know? It's like, look at all the wet shirt old guys. Well, every MC when I work on the road was born after 9-11. They're all like 20 years old. I know, we got to do it again. They got to do it again so they have something to remember, you know? That's not a bad idea. Yeah. Let's get it going. I think we could pull it off. I think if you and I put our heads together, we could fucking take down a building or two. We could take down a building, maybe. How hard is it? It does. Well, I mean, they did it, you know? And they did a good job. When I say they, of course, I mean George Bush. W. George W. Bush in between painting, in between all of his paintings. Joseph List, yes, it's been a long time. I haven't seen you in a long time. Yeah, I was here. I sat right here. I know. We did the show. I killed. Even when I come to New York, I don't really see you because you're not really around for some reason. I don't know why that is. Well, I have a child. Are you hiding from me? No, I have a child. Well, I mean, not me. You don't reach out. You don't reach out. Well, I don't know that you're going to be in town. Yes, you do. Everybody knows that I'm going to be in town. You have to text, hey, I'm coming to town, and I would say, hey, let's get together. But I'm an early bed guy. Yeah, I know. I like to go to bed. Well, I'm not going out. I'm not like a Mr. Stay Out. Actually, that's not true. When I go to New York, I do like to stay out late for food. I will eat late night food and hang out. No late night boozing in New York because that's just worthless. What do you mean? How so? I'm just not really staying out late drinking like I used to when I was a young lad. But you said New York, like, specifically. Yeah, because New York, you can. You can't do that here. You don't stay out late in L.A. We close at, like, midnight. Is that right? Maybe we should move here. L.A. is, dude, it's, I mean, you get land. That's for sure. You get a place. Where do you, are you in the city? I live in Battery Park City, yeah. Oh, dude, get out. What are you doing? Come over here. It's beautiful. It's all children. It's a perfect, I have a two-year-old son, and it's all kids and yards and grass. Not yards. That's ridiculous. Yeah, there's no yards. But parks. There's parks. But here you get parks and yards if you want it. You get sunshine. And you get vapid, phony, fake people. The best part is about the vapidness of L.A. is we don't pretend anymore. We don't, like, say no. Yeah, it's vapid and fake. Big fucking, I think if you walk into it, it's better. And also, we, Hollywood's dead. So it's kind of perfect. Like, everyone's gone. People are leaving in masses. It's opening up a great hole of, like, a new world to move in here. Right. Well, you have to. You have very nasty, frightening homeless people in Hollywood. Yeah, but I'm in the Valley up here. This is the suburbs. I do love the Valley. This is basically Jersey. Right. It's really what it is. The Valley's wonderful. I do love L.A. Yeah, maybe we'll come here. What do I know? Please, please. But then you got L.A.X. It's a very long ride to the airport. JFK sucks shit, too. Yeah, that's true. But the West Coast travel, to work the road from the West Coast just seems fucking awful. It's stupid. It is very stupid. Like, you have to leave at four in the morning to get to Cleveland for a show or leave the night before. Yeah, yeah. It does suck. But the only good thing about it is. Think of something. Sun. We have sun. The sun is nice. It's just nice to be warm in the morning when I walk my dog. I like to be warm. It's February and I'll be warm. Is that worth the 13% taxes and the homelessness and the crime and the slew of, like, terrible shit that's going on? No. Earthquakes, gangs, drought, mudslides. Gay gangs, no less. I mean, those guys are real tough. Yeah. They'll fuck you and rob you. But no, I do love it. You know, it's a whole thing. You got to come out here. And I love LA because it's magical. I'm driving around. I'm like, Tom Hanks is here. He is. Steven Spielberg is here. He's naming all the people that went to Epstein's Island at this point. Yeah. Bill Clinton. He's here. But, you know, all the people. Jim Carrey lives here and Eddie Murphy and the other people. Those people kind of live wherever they need to live. Like, they're so famous and rich, they just do whatever. They don't really stay here. Just yes and me, man. Tom Hanks is here. He's in my car right now. Tom is here. He's on the hood of my truck. Let me out! Yeah. That's my Seinfeld Tom Hanks. Seinfeld Tom Hanks. Seinfeld Tom Hanks. I have AIDS! I live in Philadelphia! I'm riddled with AIDS! Do you know Jerry? You like Jerry? Oh, boy. Here we go. No? All right. I don't know Jerry. I've never met Jerry. I respect him tremendously. That's it. All right. I don't want to get anyone in trouble here. You're probably good friends with him. I don't know him at all. No, I don't know him. I brought him on stage once at Gotham, and we were both at Colin Quinn's wedding. He was dancing next to me, and I was doing the Elaine behind his back. which I thought was funny. That's so good. And I was like, huh? And everyone was like, please stop doing that. So I don't know him at all. I feel like East Coast Comics have a different vibe and love for him the way like Norman loves it. You know, that whole, I feel like you guys respect and love that guy in a way that we don't maybe. Well, I love the show. I mean, we grew up on the show. Well, that's why I always say I like Larry David. Yeah, I'm more of a Larry guy. I'm a massive Larry David fan. Big Larry. You were on the show. I did one episode. That was my dream. I auditioned like, I did like nine auditions. I told my agent, my manager, I'm like, I'm going to kill all of you and myself if I don't get on the show. And I'm sure you've had this many times. I auditioned and did the whole thing and I was like, I fucking nailed it. Nailed it. You don't get it. You watch the show and you're like, this guy's so much better than me. Who's, what the part, do you remember the parts that you were going out for? One of the parts, it was all the last season, which I didn't love. And it was. It was still okay. It was still okay. But the first like three, four seasons are just magical. I see season one, I'm trying to think, season three. Season three is the restaurant. Yeah, that's. It's fucking unbelievable. It's unbelievable. But the part. The Palestinian restaurant? That one was later. That was later. Yeah, that was. You're talking about. That was a later one. Then when they have the restaurant. Oh, when they, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, yeah. But the part I went out for was a cook who suspects, oh, Larry's bringing his own eggs. And then the cook, he's supposed to be cooking the eggs. At the country club. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was like, I'm not a country club cook. Yeah, you're not. Why would you not be? Well. I disagree. I think you could have been great for that. Really? Yeah, but I'm instilling confidence in people that I respect and appreciate. I appreciate that. I'm very low on confidence. Yeah, you need a little bit more. Thank you. Good looking, funny, smart, beautiful wife, kid, successful comedy career, tall, in shape, sober, great friendship, circle, loyal, intellectual, inquisitive. Wow. That's enough. That's enough. That's 13. Yeah, I feel like I don't need to give you any more. That was a lot, yeah. I mean, I'm touched. I don't know if you meant any of it, but it really, it helped me. Here's one of them I meant. Okay. You'll figure it out when it's over. I appreciate it. But, and then the other part was I'm at the movie theater or theater, and he puts a jacket, Larry puts his jacket. Oh, the jacket over the, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that, I thought I had nailed that too. God, that would have been good too. I know. I thought, I tried hard. Well, I went out for the, I originally, that role was originally, the one I did was supposed to be the guy whose dog is named Adolph. Right. You remember that? Yeah. When you named the dog Adolph? Yeah, yeah. And I read it, and I spoke a little bit of German, because I knew it from when I was a kid, and Larry loved it, but Allison was like, you don't look fucking German, man. You could be German. No. What? This is, this is, you're talking, you're thinking about, you're thinking rationally. There's like a TV audience that are going to be like, that guy's an Irish guy. Right, right. It's a good point. Well, that's like an old story. The Godfather, they wanted Robert Redford to play Michael. I know. And they said, you know, a lot of Italians have red hair. They do. And Coppola, so that's true, of course, but they don't want a red-headed fucking. Yeah, because that's not what Italians look like in people's mind. Also, Redford, R-I-P-P-U. R-I-P-U, I say. Stinks. Stinks. People don't realize, Robert Redford, not great. R-I-P-P-U. Yeah. He's not that great. He was kind of a bad boy, huh? He's okay. I mean, he's fine. He's dead. He's dead. He can say whatever he wants. Now he's dead. Yeah. Well, people get upset about this, but he's fine, and there's a small contingency of comedians that agree. What did he do that was bad? I'm not. Inform me. I'm talking actor. I'm not talking guy. Oh. He's just. I mean, I'm sure he's a great guy. No, you don't hear about the other stuff, then. Oh. Bad stuff, Robert Redford. No. No, he's just okay. As an actor, he was fine. Okay, let's do. This is really fun. Who's a very famous actor that's just okay like this? Robert Redford. No, no, who's alive and working? I think George Clooney. He's just okay. I think. I think George Clooney is very George Clooney in all the movies. There's not really a George Clooney where you're like, whoa, holy shit. Yeah. But I'm trying to break into the acting world, so maybe I shouldn't be just trashing Robert Redford and George Clooney. Oh, brother, you're not gonna get into the acting world? No, you're probably right. I just signed up with a commercial agent. I didn't do commercials for like 15 years because I was trying to have integrity, but nobody seems to have any of that, so I was like, all right, I'll be a commercial guy, and I haven't heard a peep. Well, that's my biggest beef is when someone's like, oh, you're gonna sell out and do a commercial. George Carlin did Pepsi commercials. Right. Shut the fuck up. This whole ideology of like holier-than-thou comedian can't do, everyone is selling out in their own way. I'm about to read in about 15 minutes a boner pill on this very show. That's how I feel. I was like, I don't want to be in commercials, but then I'm like, I do a podcast. I'm literally just hocking stuff I've never opened or looked at or touched in my life. I think the idea of selling out is more the aspect of like you put out art that you don't want to make that you're just doing it for other people. Then that's selling out. If you completely change the way you create stand-up or art or whatever or your film or like whatever, if you made it not from your perspective, you're like, well, they just want me to make it this way. That's selling out. Everything else is just making money in the business in which we exist in. I have no, I have almost no control over how the business continues to change and also when we're going to be fucked off. You're a fool if you think this thing is going to stay in this great coasting. We're fucked. That's how I feel. Yeah, we're all going to get fucked off into space. So you might as well just enjoy it. Do the best you can. Help other people be nice. Be generous. And then we'll die and no one will remember you. Nobody will care. Watch Joe List special right now on YouTube. Small Ball, it's called. Check it out, please. For the love of Christ. I'll keep putting them on there. Applaud you generously, by the way, for you're one of the funniest dudes I know after so many years. Thank you. And also, you're one of the funniest dudes in the world. You always put out great shit and the YouTube route is the great route, huh? It's been fucking killing for you. Yeah, I've been loving it and we try to do the Netflix and they weren't interested. Yeah, but who fucking cares? Then you kind of go, yeah, the YouTube's pretty good anyways. YouTube's really great. What's your highest, on your fucking last special was what? How many? Well, they're going in descending order. One has 10 million. 10 million, though. The next one has two and a half million. The next one after that has 1.2 million and the most recent one has like 900,000. But it's also on Hulu or whatever the fuck. Amazon. So maybe some of those are on there. But what are you going to do? I have a small core group of people that keep watching. I think you have a big, small core. A million people is a shitload of people. That's true. Yeah, I think you need to give yourself some credit. You have a great group of people. I do well. Don't you find it's hard because now I'm like more successful than almost every comedian that's ever done comedy. But there's like 12 guys that I'm close friends with that own jets and helicopters and fly in space packs to their stadium shows. Yeah. So you feel like, oh God, I'm a failure. And comedy fans think that there are 30 comedians. Yeah. They don't realize there's 17,000 comedians that are worthless pieces of shit below me. They only see, you know, Shane and Nate, Bill Burr, and yeah, we'll throw you in there. No, no, no, no. And then there's like this distance to me and they're like, wow, this guy failed. But I'm like, you've never heard of these dead beings that went nowhere that suck ass, you know? Yeah. You should start, let's, here's the list of names right here. We're putting them on the screen right now. All the deadbeat comics that Joe hates. Look at all those. That guy. Yeah. He sucks. That's great. I like him, but yeah, he failed. He failed. Sure. Yeah. You're right though. That is a very weird, but that's at every level though, right? Like I, Shane and Nate and those guys like, I don't, that's fucking, that's way, that's in space for us. Like I do, I do clubs and theaters, which I'm very proud to be able to get to theaters. Like when I first did that, I thought that was fucking amazing. Those guys do fucking arenas and field houses. Shane did fucking Notre Dame. Yeah, that's nuts. Shane's, that's insane. It's insane. Well, I was just at the Denver Comedy Works, which as you know, is like one of the great clubs. Downtown or the suburbs? Downtown. Stay down. You gotta stay downtown. Downtown is where it's at. I've never done the suburbs. Well, so I'm doing it. It's sold out. And every show is, and people, fans know it's like one of the great clubs. So every show you're like, they should put a statue of me. Like I'm the best comedian of all time. And then Nate Bargatze, my dear friend, is like doing a 3 p.m. at the arena down the street. So I'm like, let me swing down there. It's just great. They're like, ah, it's a fucking basketball arena at 3 p.m. It's where the Nuggets play. And then you just kind of like slink back over to your Denver Comedy Works bullshit. No, it's not bullshit. It's fun. It's incredible. Club comedy is always better than stadium comedy. I'm not taking a shot at all of our friends that are doing stadiums because I enjoy doing arenas with these guys sometimes. It's fun. It's fun to be with the boys. But they're fucking not perfect comedy shows. No, and I did a bunch of arenas with Louie and it's not great and I cannot imagine sitting in like section 418 for a. That guy? The guy in the top corner? Like fucking, what does he get this? I might have told this story last time I was here, but I opened for Louie at Madison Square Garden and it was like his eighth show of the month there. So it was like the last people to buy that. So it wasn't the hottest show. It was like people that were like, fine, I'll fuck you up. I'll fuck you up. I'll fuck you up. I can go see this guy. And I did 20 minutes and I was just eating shit. No, you weren't. I swear to God. And Louie will tell you, he did, it was his least favorite show also. We were like sad after. And one guy in the balcony goes, ha ha, and he guffaws. And I almost did the, this guy gets it. But I realized it was 17,000 people. So I was like, all right, let me just, but I literally heard like a guy laugh at Madison Square Garden. It echoes to the garden. Yeah, they're hard. You know, I did them with a bunch of different people. And this, I know this sounds like, this sounds like the Willy Wonka, I bet the gold makes the chocolate taste terrible, you know, but it just, I, you know. You don't want to do that. Well, it just, it just, there's, if comedy fans who go to see comedy, they want to see you. And you fucking can't see, you're watching a screen anyway from, and it's cool that we get to do that, but I think clubs or small theaters are the coolest way to see fucking comedy. And they always will be for the rest of the time. Louis, Louis said that the other day. He was like, yeah, dude, you're keeping those clubs alive and you get to connect with those people. You really don't connect when it's over a couple thousand. It's hard to grasp the, the thing. I agree. I think even in a club, the people in the back of the room, it's hard for them to be engaged in the show. Even when it's a big club and you're like, fuck, I hope they're in it. Yes. So I agree. I'm never, I just had a guy comment on my Instagram. He's like, please never do arenas. And I was like, I promise you, I will not be doing arenas. No Joe List arena tour? I don't think so. You could get there, dude. Maybe. You're funny enough, but it's if you'd want to do it. Well, it's about getting the people to see and believe that you're funny. You also have to put on a little bit more of like, yeah, there's one more stage of like putting on the show. Right. You have to like do an extra thing, you know? There's black people and there's. Say it, say it, say it. Come on, I can't. You used to be able to. It was so fun. You could just let it fly. You really did just toss it up in the sky. It was great. The good old days. Yeah. What are you going to do now? It's so restrictive. You can't say the N word. Well, I have, is Jay Leno, do you guys love, or you don't love, because I have a story about Jay Leno. Why? When I was out here. When I was out here. I don't know Jay Leno. I've never met Jay Leno. I, um, if we're talking from a, and I'm not being political, I don't know the guy, so I don't have much to say about him. I've literally never seen him once live, so I don't know anything about Jay Leno other than the fucking show, but I was a Letterman guy as a kid. I loved Letterman. Yeah, me too. I was obsessed with Letterman. I thought he was like the second coming of Carson. Did you get to do the show? No, I only got to do one show. I got to do Conan. Conan was the only one I ever got to do. Oh, wow. Well, there's still shows. You could still do them. No, no, no. No, no, no. No, no, no. That's so dumb. That's dumb. Check out my Fallon set from just a few months ago. I did great. No, I have no interest in doing them anymore. It's fun. You put a suit on. No, you're wrong. Your parents watch. I feel like you're absolutely wrong. My parents, my parents don't need to watch any more stuff. I'm done. I don't like when they watch. They go, you know, we read, we read the comments on that one video. Oh yeah. Did you? Don't do that, mom. Yeah. Oh, if my parents read comments, I will have to. We scrolled down and someone said you're a fag, cuck, liberal sellout. Mom. Well, we put that on a shirt. My son's a fag, cuck, liberal sellout. What is it? My son graduated from, I'm taking a pill right now. I forgot. Take a pill. Look at the size of this fucking thing. What is that? This is antibiotics for my eye. My right eye. Can you see it's all droopy? No, it looks regular to me. I had a crazy eye infection. Oh, I think it looks okay. Um, uh, that's cause you have some droopy eyes. You have, your glasses have some. What? Yeah, you do. There he is. Now he finally finds out. Huh? Me? No, my eyes are fucking fantastic. I look great. You do. You look good. Right? You look better than you used to. That's for sure. Absolutely. No, that's not true. You look, you look, uh, you look the exact same. You, by the way, you haven't aged. I think you look the same since I met you. I have a white beard now. Mm-hmm. And I had a gray pubic hair. Let me see. I cut it off. Mm-hmm. With a knife. Fucking swallowed it like that pill. But I didn't do, I only did Conan. Um, and I know there's still the shows now. I just, I'm not, that's not my format. I'm not good on that stuff anyway. You're built for that, dude. Oh, thanks. Yeah, I did it. You're a consummate joke writer. Thank you. I try. I'm a hack turd. I like to get up there and. Oh, stop it. I love your jokes. You have great jokes. No, but you know, but you know what? Uh, I think I like wanted Conan so bad for some reason. Cause I, I really like loved him. And so when I got it, I thought I better not try again. Cause I'll just be let down. Cause I did audition for the night show when we were young a few times. I didn't get it. And so I just kind of like gave up. I was like, fuck that. I'm out. I don't know. But Fallon's gotta be kind of fun. It's super fun. Yeah. But it doesn't have, you know, the impact, but it does well on social media, whatever. And that's all it is now. I always, I like it. I always say I'm like, I like it experientially. It's fun. I get a suit and you bring the suit and they pick you up in an SUV. And my, my fucking father came and my wife comes and it's the only time she comes. Folks, more jokes like that on Small Ball. Ring-a-ding-a-ding-a-ding-a-ding Small Ball right now on YouTube. We'll put the link in the description down below. Please go watch it. Um, but anyway, it's fine. You go and then you get nervous. The only time I'm nervous to do comedy in five minutes is a guy with a fucking. A fucking little headset and a thing. Three, two, go, go, go. And they open the curtains and there's a union fella there that doesn't give a shit. He always, he's like, so are you a Jets fan? You're like, no, shut up. I got to go on. And, uh, it's, there's other celebrities there. It's fun. It's exciting. It is fun. I get it. I just did Couch. I did a Couch recently on, on Camel. And that's funnish. And George, wait, what's wrong with me? Carlin? George Hamill. George Hamill? George Ham? George Hamill. Mark Hamill? Mark Hamill. Why did I say George Hamill? My brain. Because George Skywalker is what you're thinking. Yeah, yeah. That's his character's name. Mark Hamill. He was like, I don't know you, but I respect standup comedy. Oh, that's nice. I was like, thank you so much. And he goes, let's get a photo. No kidding. And I was like, no, thank you. And I fucked him off. No, no. How funny would that be? I was like, get fucked, nerd. You don't, you don't know me. Actually, and they asked me, the pre-interview was like, do you have any, um, Star Wars stuff? And I was like, no. They're like, do you want to do a connective tissue thing? To, you know what I mean? They like want to prep you for the, and I was like, no, because I don't, um, I'm not a Star Wars guy. Oh, wow. People are going to get mad at me. I know people, people always, I say that all the, no, my buddy, Adam Lussick and I used to joke around. He's like, we were like, I don't like Star Wars. He's like, I don't like it either. And we were like, it's, this world is pretty interesting. I don't know if I, I don't need another space world to believe. Have you been to Baltimore? It's fucking, that's Tatooine. Like, let's do that bit together. And we were joking about it. And I thought, I don't know. Oh, if I run that on fucking Kimmel, he'll be, you know, he'll be bummed about it. And I don't want to fucking, the Star Wars nerd fans are the same as Taylor Swift fans where they're like, they will eat you a lot. They fucking, you do not go against Star Wars fans. Right. I love Star Wars as a boy. I didn't, it didn't carry over though. I don't still, I don't. See, but how? We grew up in the same era. How did you even get into it? That wasn't even part of our childhood, Star Wars, really. What are you, crazy? It was from the seventies. No, but again, 83 was Return of the Jedi. It was a monster. It's like still going now. So I was obsessed with it. I don't know. When I was a boy, I wanted to be Luke Skywalker. I loved him. I mean, I'm talking young. I was a Ghostbusters kid. I would, that's, oh, you don't like it. Ghostbusters came out one year after Return of the Jedi. Yeah. Why did that hit me then? I don't know. I think that fantasy was fun, more fun to me. Ghostbusters, I never loved. What? Yeah. I thought it wasn't nearly as funny as like Caddyshack and Vacation stuff. I didn't get it. Yeah, different kind of funny, but man, I thought the nuances in there was so fucking fun. You didn't like it? I got to revisit. Yeah, I think you should. I think it was very funny. I think it was very, Dr. Peter Venkman, there was some great, I think there was jokes that we didn't get when we were kids that I got when I got older. When I was really young, I was afraid. It was like, it was ghosts. It was scary. You were a scared boy. I was a big little pussy. Yeah. A fucking pussy. I almost said the F word, but you've already said it a hundred times. Did I say it? Yeah. Oh, I said I'm a liberal fag cuck. Yeah. Well, that is what they call me online. I get that all the time myself. My favorite is, my favorite is seminal comment. Santino's a liberal cuck, sellout, whatever the fuck, Hollywood, da da da. And then a guy right below it will be like, Santino's a Trump bootlicking cuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get very similar things. You don't even know how you hate me. Yeah, yeah. I get very similar. It makes me feel good, actually. They can't decide how they hate you. I know. I do like that because you keep it a nice mystery. Yeah, it's nice. But I mean, you did, you were, I should, I don't know if I should say it, but a captain of Antifa for a long time. You were co-chairman or what was it? Yeah. We don't call it chair. We call it couch. I don't know. I got nothing. Dude, I wanted it. I had nothing. I saw you. I saw your brain weaving through it. Yeah, I couldn't come up with anything. And I went chair, couch, which is just silly. In here, we pour whiskey. Hey, I'm here to tell you about Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. 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If you want to hear my Star Wars bit, this is what I would have done. This is an old bit of mine when I first started. You know, it's the voice of Darth Vader, James Earl Jones. Love the man. And at the end, they take the mask off of the guy and it's not James Earl Jones. I thought it should have been. What a great plot twist. Luke Skywalker's father is just a fat black guy with a deep voice. That was like my joke. I was like 18 with like, you know, and people would go, oh yeah, it's funny. It's crazy to think about when I was, I started as a, as a teenage boy and people would say, you're going to be huge. You're, you're big. This is going to be, you're going to be fucking forget about it. Guaranteed. And then I look back and like, that was my bit that people were like, this guy, he's got it. And I had a joke where I said, there's a lot of empty seats. And I went to a Celtics game, a lot of empty seats for a team called the Celtics. And I said, I'm going to be a Celtics. Oh my God. And then these people were like, dude, you're going to be huge. You're a genius. You're a fucking genius. And I just believed him. I was like, nice. All right. Great. Yeah. But those jokes at the time were probably impressive because of your age. I think because I was a, I was a teenage. You were a young lad. Kid. 18 is crazy to start at 18. Yeah. I was young. And I also went through a, like, I was big into, um, the rat pack. Oh, you're a big Sinatra guy. Yeah. And I, my, my mother bought me like a Sinatra fedori hat and I wore it on, saved a few times, like tilted to the side. And I was like 6'2", 130 pounds and had a little fucking thing. And I was like, folks, ringy ding. Do you have photos of this? Somewhere there must be. I was just wearing it around the house. Send them to me so we can put it on the show. If I can find it. I mean, it's, it's gotta be old. It's not online. What was your favorite? Who's your favorite rat packer? Dean Martin's my favorite singer, the best voice of all of them. I thought. And, uh, but I, I liked Frank. I liked the idea of like staying up late. This is part of the reason I was like such a drunk fucking idiot for so long. I like romanticize, like staying up late, the hang. We all do. Yeah. And then after a while, you're just like, I'm just an asshole. I'm just like, and Sinatra is never like shitting on the hood of a random car and like ripping mailboxes out of the, and like punting them. Well, as far as we know. Yeah, maybe he was. Because we, the internet didn't exist. So we don't hear those stories. You just hear them by way of, and by the way, they get turned into lore, right? Like there's an old famous story that on Palm Springs, uh, Sinatra, um, and Dean, I guess, uh, they would, they, they, when they play golf, they would request a golf cart, be fully stocked with alcohol for their round. So they wanted someone to trail with them in a fully stocked cart of alcohol. Cause they didn't want to have to go back to the clubhouse to get booze. Sure. And thus was the birthing of the drink cart for golf course. No kidding. Well, this is lore. This is probably not true, right? The real truth is they probably abused some young, beautiful woman. We're rude to her the whole day. We're drunk, smacking her, throwing up. Like we have this idea of these people that they were like, Oh, so cool. I bet you Sinatra was whipping his cock out on the side of the one 33 while Frank threw up. I mean, while Dean threw up for sure, they were pigs. I don't believe in this. Like there's a shiny veneer on the past, but like they're, they just didn't have technology to prove that they were pigs. That's a great point. We're better than them. We're way better than those. And you've sauce for so long now. It's an, it's a distant memory. Yeah. Most of it was pre internet Instagram, which I'm very grateful for. You stopped. You stopped how long ago? 2012. Wow. December, 2012. December. Yeah. Before or after Chris, right? Right after Christmas, before new year's. You get hammered on Christmas. On Christmas, I got hammered. I was like blacked out on Christmas and every gift I got was alcohol. I got like a hundred percent. Like I got nips and a six pack and a handle of rum. Like there wasn't one gift. That's from your parents, parents, uncles, aunts, girlfriend, friend, everybody that was like, get them booze. Wow. And I was like, Oh, this is weird. This is a little, I didn't get a sweater, a sock, nothing. He didn't need a sweater. He's blacked out. Um, so yeah, there was that. And then, yeah, it was just a big fuck up. But you're, but, but it is funny because you don't, I didn't know you then. I met you probably right after you got sober. Maybe. I don't know. I don't remember where I met you. I thought, I thought I had a memory. Did you do the, um, that festival in Grand Rapids one point maybe like a long time ago? Was it Grand Rapids? It's pretty sad. The Yoders? My memory is so bad. Yeah. Don't you get that way? I feel bad about that. No, I just did a podcast with Soder. Who's like a pothead. This guy's like just smoking pot all day. And he was like, remember that time in 2007, you stayed at my house and we watched this game. I'm like, what are you crazy? I don't remember that at all. I think that's not do that. It's a selective memory thing. Some people have that kind of like ability to crack that open. I can't, I, it's gone for me. I have some memory, like some crazy memories, but not others. That was very profound. Yeah. Holy shit, dude. You're in order. Some things I remember and some things I don't remember. I remember there's moments of, that I remember from my childhood that I don't know why I remember them. Do you know what I mean? Where you're like, why did that stay? You know, I used to go watch, this is, this sounds fake. This sounds like a I remember watching Johnny Carson at night or TV late at night. I was like, am I crazy? When I was a little, little kid. Yeah. And my mom was like, yeah, you should do it all the time. She goes, I knew you'd stay up and go watch Carson because you'd fall asleep in the living room and the TV would eventually go to like the old days. And she's like, and you'd leave the fridge open and you'd be eating slices of American cheese and hot dogs, cold hot dogs. So I would wrap the hot dogs and with American cheese and I'd sit and watch Carson. But I had these weird, vague memories of it. And I don't even know why I would like Carson. I wouldn't have gotten anything the show was saying. I was so young, but I think I liked the rhythm probably. Yeah. It's exciting. The talk rhythm. I was probably obsessed with like that thing. That's how I felt. Cause I was big into comedy too, as a kid. I mean, I didn't watch Carson. I don't remember watching Carson, but I think like George Carlin specials, I would watch, I remember him doing a bit about Dan Quayle and I'm like, I don't know what the fuck he's talking about. I didn't know who Dan Quayle was. Yeah. He's like, he's stupid, full of shit and all this stuff. And I was like, that's great stuff. And also there was something about, he was entertaining the adults, which seemed so exciting and intriguing to me to see. I don't know about you, but like my family was never happy ever unless they were watching comedy and drunk. Well, drunk, drunk. Well, you're in Massachusetts, but not, not Boston. You're outside of Boston, right? Yeah. About 40 minutes South of Boston, Whitman, Massachusetts. Oh, Whitman, Mass. Birthplace of the chocolate chip cookie. So they say. That's what they say. Who couldn't claim that? I mean, there's no fucking way. It is. It was an accident. They spilled. Look it up. This is what people do. They always look it up. I'm getting pissed off. It makes me mad. Where was the chocolate chip cookie invented? Uh, Ruth Graves, Wakefield and Whitman, Mass at the Toll House Inn. That's where the Toll House cookie, 1938. This has got to be bullshit. Buddy, you're telling me. She spilled the chocolate into the cookie. It's always a spill. You're telling me 1938. There had to have been cookies before 1938. Well, there was cookies, jackass. There wasn't chocolate chip cookies. Sure there was. This is, this, this, this again is lore. This is the same thing as like, they had the golf cart, follow them around and every, no, this is bullshit. This is different. Look up, look it up. There's sources everywhere. Many people. Here we go. Why, you know, why do you want to ruin this? In the more recent years, the story of Ruth Graves, Wakefield has been pushed around the internet by comedian Joe List. He continually makes people look it up and cite it on their show as if it is true, but we've kept this article up just to keep him happy. You know, it's fun that you're doing this. This is, I talk about this a lot. This is one of my things. This is one of my great skills I talk about. I read things and then I'm very good at continuing to read as though it says it. And I always do it. And then people will laugh and then I'll say, that's one of my great skills. That's one of your great skills. And you've, you've commandeered it. Or maybe we share it, I guess. We share it. Yeah. No, I've never seen, I've never seen you do it. I do stuff like that. Believe me, I've done it. I've never seen you watch Johnny Carson, but I'm pretending to believe the story. This is a throwaway. I do that stuff all the time. Yeah, that's fair. Well, you know what I do? Here's one of my gags. At the top of an escalator, there's a little emergency thing. I hit that all the time. No, no, I don't hit it. I open it and it goes, and I go like this. And people, they die. They fall down the escalator. They're like, this guy, who is this guy? You can try it. Folks at home, be careful. Don't hit the button because people will fall down. But you open it, it just goes, and then you do this because very few people realize that it will make that noise. And then you do the shave. Or you can do something else. You can do vibrator if you want to go blue. No, you don't need to go blue. Shave is good or. Toothbrush. Oh, an electric toothbrush. Toothbrush. Or you're using a vibrating nose hair picker. Yeah, I don't know about that. Oh, dude, yeah, come on. No, I shouldn't. That'll bomb. That's no good, yeah. I don't want to take over your bit. You're sending people the wrong direction. Coca-Cola. For the big. For the small. Peacemakers. Risk takers. For the optimist. Pessimists. for old friends and new coca-cola for everyone pick up some coca-cola at a store near you for families facing hunger this holiday your generosity could mean one less difficult choice across the feeding america network your gift fulfills the promise of connecting neighbors to nourishing food and stability this thanksgiving give it feeding america.org holiday now at kroger your points add up to more ways to save every trip use them your way to take dollars off groceries at checkout or save at the pump you can even save up to 35 on your next fill up same points more choices and with low prices on fresh quality food plus digital and personalized offers tailored to how you shop your dollar goes further redeem your points online or in the app kroger fresh for everyone restrictions apply c-sider store for details what's your what's your best friend phone bit because one of the classics of course you have a long conversation and then when you get off you say wrong number oh that's especially with you and with i love you it's very funny whenever i'm with my my friends kids uh i always do the bit well like i was with my buddy sean's daughter and she has a little fake phone you know and then i'll go hello she's right here no when oh okay i'll see you soon you leave it real wide open for their little imagination right what is it what's coming who's happening where is it who was it and i'll go i don't know they'll call back soon i like that i like to let them play with their mind over who it's who's coming what happened what are they gonna do that's a fun one i like yeah i like fucking with little kids i like i like that like leave letting them figure out the rest of the story now that's a sentence where with is such an important you need the word important you need the word the most important word of this whole podcast is fucking with little i do love fucking with kids it is like one of the funniest things in the world to lie to a child is so fun and you get to do it so much more now i love you i care about you you get to feed him lies forever i'm successful we're financially stable don't worry we can afford to live in this neighborhood mom and dad like we get along still it's all the good stuff yeah we love you dearly auntie karen is not sexually active with us uh oh this is a fun bit dave walsh you know dave walsh i love you dearly i love you dearly i love you dearly the walsh brothers yeah yeah he used to do when people give him a phone to take a photo he would go like this it's just fun that's a good but that one you have to be old to get because this is what those cameras used to look like but it's very funny give me your best phone bit then i mean i guess i just kind of take other people's i do that one occasionally i mean i'll do a selfie when they ask you to take a photo that's i like that yeah selfies that's good i wish i had the balls to like throw someone's phone when they i wish i had the balls to like throw someone's phone when someone's like we take a picture of us and to just throw it as far as i can and just walk yeah it's mean it's so mean but how fun it's so insane it would be not the first time i ever opened for nick dipalo somebody was texting on the thing and maybe they weren't even texting i don't even invented yet maybe they were talking they answered the phone or something and he took it and he put it in his captain and coke like a 16 ounce glass and he did his whole show with their phone just sitting in his glass drink yeah and then the next night the guy showed up with like a 400 bill for a new phone yeah you gotta pay him yeah but it was it worth a bit yeah it was a good bit but also that was like 2006 and i think the phone wasn't quite as it's now if you did that to someone it would be like murdering their family they would fucking go nuts right right right right that's an act of terrorism i mean i'm down to seven percent i don't know how i'm gonna get where i'm going i just don't know why that won't get plugged in because the plug works everything works no i bought this shitty cord i have a long comedy of errors going on here well also i was at i went to fedex to buy a charger because that was the nearest thing to me and literally the lady in front of me was trying to ship a package to india overnight and she was like dumbfounded that they couldn't get it to india tomorrow and so i'm just trying to buy a charger my phone's dying i'm running late i'm in a wet shirt and she's like how is this possible you're fedex i need it there tomorrow and the lady's like you can get there monday and she's like well who else who can do this and she's like you could try dhl but we're considered the fastest it's india like this lady is like i need this in india tomorrow morning to her credit i feel like they should be able to do it maybe i don't know much about shipping well here's the worst part it is tomorrow morning already in india great point it's already tomorrow yeah ma'am it's already late it's here today it's already late you need there tomorrow it's already late this is like an old carlin bit this could be jerry yeah that is you can't get it tomorrow it's already today today tomorrow is today manana i don't know but anyway so yeah i got this charger it sucks but also i think i have some shit in my phone jacked a little in the thing yeah you got to get it cleaned out yes i've had to do that a few times well earlier i said this and you act like i was a fucking moron no no you're a moron because you have the old phone still dude this phone it's a fucking iphone 14 i can take slow motion videos and panoramic charger no one has those i don't have those i know but it's only two years old i know but we throw them away immediately but don't act like i'm an idiot they're the idiot that you fucking i got fucked it's like you're acting like it's like let me see the whole you're acting like it's you know um i'm handing you a rotary phone this doesn't even look that bad i'm actually confused over why it was i don't know it's all fucked up you know someone's calling me spam risk hello um why don't they ever answer back spam risk i don't know i think they got what they need already though they once you answer they have your oh yeah this one's filled with stuff what's in there just come a couple of uh comedy seller hosts are in there it's bad and then i bought a piece of shit charger and i gotta get back to ervin five percent there's a cvs around the corner you can get a car charger really a hundred percent all right yeah yeah i promise you but it doesn't always uh yeah my jack i'll go i'll get a new phone don't get a new phone all right i won't yeah fuck that you know what you should do what um do what a tell does have like the flip phone well he's got some problems does he i think so no he's the best i think he's cruising oh i think he might have the best perspective on it he just just does he just loves comedy and that's all he wants to do well he's just a funny guy i mean he shows up with like he's got like a duffel bag and a bag that's why i call him the bag lady i love him he's my little bag lady well he don't you i think that dave is the most mysterious comedian right in sense of like people don't really know what his life is outside of comedy like can you picture him chatting with his mom i don't i can't like oh really like it's it's so hard he doesn't sit still and it's very hard to get him to be genuine for a long time he's very nice guy who's like that what do you mean who's like that that we know who has that kind of cancer still uh you don't know if he's ever being genuine it's not a negative this isn't an this is not like an attack mark norman it's always been mark mark mark always has that okay like i like all of us imagine when he had a baby it was like hey baby yeah and you're like say hi to the baby meet the baby he's like get that out of here it's wet well i think about this all the time with i've asked him i'm like what are you like when you have sex i can't imagine him being like all right baby all right suck it suck it hard i know he's got a hate oh i came right i don't know i came really i went i went to the bathroom but you came and the woman's like are you please just fucking eat me out or something no it's very it's very strange to think about and uh i mean i was at his i saw him very genuine one time at his wedding ever at his no not even at the wedding it was we were all i think me and stavros and stavros was definitely there somebody else maybe matt sallis i don't know who it was but it's me stav and somebody else were out walking in new orleans and they were taking photos and they like exchanged vows kind of privately and took photos like on the street and we were out walking we were like hey stavros and he was like get get you got to get out of here come on get out of here that's kind of that's nice he's like seriously fucking and it was the most the strangest thing because he wasn't like hey all right yeah leave us alone he was like dude he fucking dude and it was because we were gonna see him be honest talking to a woman yeah and then back to the actual ceremony he was back to like all right i do right but there was one moment in 15 years of friendship that he was like out of here god it's wild yeah yeah he does he's got that kind of thing that dave does that i don't even know dave like that but i know mark for so long and i it's i don't i never i don't yeah i don't get it i don't know how i don't know how like at night before he goes when you go to sleep with your wife at night and you're having those late night bed conversations is he still doing it i think i don't know is he still doing i don't know i mean i've seen him like when years ago his girlfriend because he had the same girlfriend for years before this girl and their dog died and this is also just pure mark we were doing our podcast at the time we had like 150 listeners or something and he showed up at the pot he was quite emotional because his dog had died and i also was like what are you doing cancel the pod go you got to go be with your girlfriend and he's like oh really with like red teary eyes and i was like yeah yeah what did who gives a fuck we'll record tomorrow your dog just died it's like a 15 year old and his girlfriend was like in shambles you know and he's like i gotta go and i had to tell him like no no you go home for that that's a cancel yeah how does he not know that he grew up very strange i think Like, his growing up situation is odd, too. Well, he's got some, I think his parents didn't hug him or something. I don't know, they're fucked up. Yeah, they're fucked up. He says they're fucked up. He talks about that. But his mother's very sweet. I've met her. She took a lot of Tylenol when she was having him. Folks, I can't do the voice. Come on, do the voice. Yeah. I'm bad at the voice. But there was another time, another story about Mark being psychotic, when I realized he was a complete lunatic. And he's come a long way. I think he's matured a tremendous amount. Most improved. Still a maniac, but most improved. Most improved. But he had, this is when he was living with his old girlfriend, he had a Montreal audition coming up, which meant the world to him, because he's obviously obsessed with quality. It did for all of us at one point. Yeah, it sure did. It was a big deal. I did it, and I always tell this story. I did New Faces. I got not a single meeting, not a call, not a text. Me neither. I met zero people. I also tanked my New Faces. It wasn't even good. It was like a mediocre fucking set. What year did you do it? I wish I knew. I want to say. 2010, 2009? I want to say. No, no, no, no, no, no. I want to say 11 or 12. Maybe 11. I did 12. Yeah, we were right around the same time. Actually, maybe I was after. Maybe I was 13. I don't even. I really don't know. Andrew Santino, New Faces, JFL. Let's see. I actually don't remember. I know that's really fucking sad. This is gripping. Well, my memory's really fucking bad. I hate it. I hate to say that, but I'm like one of those guys that just don't. When someone goes, what year? I'm like, I don't fuck. I have no idea. I could not tell you if I tried. What year? One of my favorite punchlines. Zach Galifianakis. What year were you on 9-11? What year? What year? Ugh. Why can't I find it? It doesn't matter. Let's make sure to get caught up on this, though. Yeah, we should. I think we should definitely spend some time. Honestly, I got to be honest with you. People do like this kind of stuff. They really get in there. We should spend. Yeah. Spend a little time figuring out which year. I don't know. I don't remember what year it was. I really don't. I remember I had already done a TV show when I got New Faces, but I thought it was kind of fucking worthless. Yeah, I had done Live at Gotham, and I was like 12 years in. I was like, what are the fucking. I already needed it. I needed it before. Well, I bombed. I want to get back to that Mark story, but I bombed my New Faces, and then afterwards we were all. Because we all bombed. It was a horrible show, and we were all sitting around talking, and I was like, well, I talked to Colin Quinn. He made me feel better. And then Dave Waite, you know Dave Waite, he was like, what do you mean you talked to Colin Quinn? And I was like, well, I called him because I was so bummed. He's like, you have a call-Colin-Quinn relationship? And I was like, yeah. And he's like, well, that's more. That's better. That's cooler than doing. Way better than JFL. well for five minutes. And it actually gave me perspective. I was like, that's a great point. Yeah. What do I care? I got CQ on the horn. Right. We cared because it. We thought it really fucking mattered. Yeah. It didn't matter. Nothing matters. But it did. Things matter at the time. Right. At the time, everything has a meaning to you, and you'll never know if it was really worth it or not. So that's why you just do as much nonsense as you can in our business to go, I might like this, or I might fucking turn out to hate this, but I don't give a shit either way. Right. It doesn't. Because it actually. Nothing actually matters. So it only matters to you if you give a little bit of a fuck about it being an experience. Well, that's like late night. Going back to late night, which Jay Leno, who I just love everything he says, and he's. I find him just so wise and hilarious. But on Comedians in Cars, Jerry was talking about how late night doesn't matter anymore. And he's like. Oh, it matters. He's like, because I meet these guys before, and they're like, hello, Mr. Leno. I'm so happy. I'm so nervous. Like, you're terrified. Yeah. And he had a great point. He's like, for five minutes, you're still the only thing on NBC. Right. In the history of NBC, Seinfeld and whatever, Johnny Carson, for five minutes, it's just you standing there. It's still a big deal. And it is a big deal. Even though nobody, you know, watches or cares. I think people do still watch it. They just don't watch it like they used to. Right. And certainly the industry's not watching, being like, we got to get this guy in a room. Stat. What is the industry? I've spoken. That's deep. Well, it is, actually, truly. If you think about it, this is all. We finally pulled back the curtain, and we were like, what? Right. Wait, what? Really? This is it? It reminds me of this. I've said this before on this show. I always say people go watch Duplass. I think it's Mark Duplass. He has this whole speech called The Calvary Is Not Coming. And it's really brilliant and beautiful about how, like, when he made their first indie, and you think, the phone's going to be ringing off the fucking hook. I've had that so many times. Well, you should watch this speech. It's actually pretty beautiful for guys that kind of made their own shit their whole career and kind of were trying to chase the business, he would say. He finally realized. He's like, oh, The Calvary's not coming. This idea that they're coming for you. Like, there, The Calvary's not. Dude, it's on its way. You got to. And the agents would be like, nomination. I'm going to be calling, dude. And no one calls. And he's like, the more you. The older you get, the more you realize, well, I'd made all this happen for myself. I did all this for myself. I did all of it. Right. It was never going to be a, Joe, get ready. Because the list came in. And it is. I mean, they're going to. They want to give you all of it. So I just think it was true that he was like, there is no great savior. There is no. Like, when someone says. If someone says to me something like, I bet you get blah, blah, blah, blah all the time. No, I don't. No one does. Right. No one gets blank all the time. It's all fake. We all just have to self-generate until. Until somebody goes, okay, you can do that. Right. And by that time, you don't give a fuck. Because you already did five other things trying to get to the thing. It's like Shawshank, where he's like, you go ahead and stamp your papers, sonny boy, because I don't give a shit. And then they're like, you got it. That's one of my favorite scenes, too. You got to not care. Yeah, well, because if you care, they don't want to give it to you. Right. But if you don't care enough, you don't show any. You don't show them that you have any sort of drive for the business. Right. Give me the fucking. Norman story. What were you going to say? Oh, sorry. Now I was thinking another story. Oh, give me both. Give me all your stories. Mark, this is years ago, obviously, because it must have been 15 years ago or something. He was nervous about his audition. Montreal was coming up. It was a whole thing. And for whatever reason, we just went on a bit. He came to my house. We were hanging out and then drinking and partying, whatever. And then he just didn't go home for three days. And his girlfriend that he lived with was texting. I'm calling him. And he was just straight up ignoring him. I was like, this is crazy. He just lived at my home. We were watching old Marx Brothers movies. We have the time of our lives, smoking pot, drinking, watching Marx Brothers. And I'm like, this is great. But I'm like, don't you have to. Shouldn't you say something? And he's like, I don't want to do it. She doesn't get it. And I was like, okay. And we haven't been friends for just a few months. And I was like, this person is completely insane. And it went on for literally days, calling. Her friends were calling. He was just sleeping on your couch? Yeah. He was just sleeping. He was sleeping on my couch, hanging out, watching movies, Seinfeld, whatever. And then eventually he went home and she was in a bile, crying, sobbing, thinking he was dead or left. And he's like, well, I had the audition. I was a little nervous. It was crazy. He took care of it the way he needed to take care of it. And then the first time we went on a road trip, this poor girl, we went on a road trip and they lived together. And we were driving to Boston and we didn't know each other at all. We had the same manager and we had met, but we never spent quality time. Sure. But we were both like autistically Seinfeld fans and we're driving in the car and she called and he was like, uh, okay, well, I can't talk. Uh, there's four of us in the car and I'm driving. We're taking turns driving. And I'm like, does she have any idea of geography? Like it's a four hour car ride. Why would we take turns? It's 200 miles. And then he's like, okay, well, there's a big patch of ice coming up. So I really got to get off the phone. Like he's in the passenger seat. Why not just say, I got a friend here. I'll call you later. Right. And I'm like, patch of ice. You don't just see a patch of ice. Like none of it made sense, but it was, uh, it was fun and exciting. Cause I was like, this person's completely out of his mind. That's his world. That's how he's living. Patch of ice. Hey, we're about to slide out. Call you back. He must hate it, dude. I do it too much. And people do. Louie was like, that is too good. Don't do it. Don't. That's stop that. It's fun. It's fun. He's the most fun for me to do. I can't do famous people. I can do friends. I can't do like. I don't like that. So I can't like Tom Hank. If someone's like, dude, this guy can't do it. But if they're like, do a guy we know. I'm like, I got, yeah, I can, I can do people. We know. My only impression is, uh, Mr. Orange and reservoir dogs. You feel that the film, what do you mean? Am I familiar with the film? Tim Roth. Controversial statement here. My second favorite Tarantino film. Coca-Cola for the big, for the small, the short and the tall peacemakers. Risk takers. For the optimists pessimists for long distance love for introverts and extroverts, the thinkers and the doers for old friends and new Coca-Cola for everyone. My name is Taylor. The economy is crushing moms like me right now. High food costs and changes to nutrition programs constrain family budgets. Your donation can help nourish families. When budgets strain, your gift sustains. Give now at feeding america.org slash community response. Once upon a time in Hollywood. Is that your first? Fuck you. No chance. I hate that people think that that's number one. I'm guessing for you. The greatest Tarantino film is undoubtedly Pulp Fiction. It's not, it's not even a, I don't even understand where there's a conversation to be had. It was the most groundbreaking. The cast was unbelievable. Like it did. 10 things at once and told five different stories in non chronological. It was brilliant. It was perfect. Well, but Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is so beautifully poignant, though. It's his most poignant and touching film. Okay, but I like. And it's hilarious. It's funny. But there is. But also, I do think there's much that could have been shaved off the movie. Once Upon a Time, my biggest hiccup is I also hate L.A. stuff. That's my biggest hiccup. You live here. I know. Trust me, dude. When you do live here and shows and movies are about L.A., it does something to your insides. And Pulp Fiction Reservoir Dogs, both L.A. movies. I know, but Pulp Fiction does away with L.A. that it's. L.A. isn't the centerpiece of the film. It takes place in Los Angeles. Right. But it's sprinkled in in a way that makes it. That you know it exists there, but it's not what the whole movie is about. Sure. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is literally about Los Angeles. It's about the history of the city. It's about the cultural zeitgeist in town, the Spahn Ranch. And all this stuff is so Los Angelino stuff. Right. Pulp Fiction. By the way. By the way, most people don't even know where Bruce Willis, what neighborhood he lived in, what hotel that was. Right. That was my favorite part. People didn't know. The joke when the wolf goes, move out of the sticks, fellas, when they say he's driving up from a dondo. Right. 95% of America has no idea what that means, what the. I loved that. That's like Seinfeld, where Kramer says, you want to go take a trip to Queens? He goes, I love going to the country. Yes. Which, in my mind, I was a kid. I was like, oh, Queens is the country. Right. But when it's inside baseball, it's fun when you know. Yeah, yeah. Versus. Yeah, Once Upon a Time was almost. It was romanticism of Los Angeles, but I just. I can't do it. Something about it always irked me. Anyway, second best film was Reservoir Dogs. Do Tim Roth. Fuck you! Fuck you! I'm fucking dying here! I'm fucking dying! That's pretty good, right? That's really good. Fuck you! The fuck you is it. Because he's half British. I mean, he's all British. He is British. But his accent kind of comes out a little bit. He sounds a little weird. Fuck you! I'm fucking dying! God, that's such a great scene. It's pretty good, right? It's so good. Folks. And it's a great scene. Did you know about the orange balloon? The what? In the movie, there's a moment where the two cops are sitting there and they go, this guy must have rocks in his head the size of Gibraltar to go undercover. And then the car pulls away and they pull away and there's an orange balloon that. Rolls across the screen. Rolls across the street. What is that? Mr. Orange. Ayo, ayo, ayo. Wow. It's like a little. A little Easter egg? A little nugget, a little Easter egg. Orange. Because at that point you don't know. Oh, wait, no. Maybe it's not that moment. It's a different moment. At the point you don't know who the rat is. Right. And then also, of course, the opening scene, I never put this together for years, he rats out Steve Buscemi in the first scene. He's like, who didn't throw in? He's like, Mr. White. Yeah, right, right, right. Or Mr. Pink. Mr. Pink, yeah. So immediately he's a rat. What do you mean? I don't know. Tip. Such a great scene. Yeah. A conversation we've all literally had a hundred times. I just got a lot of shit. Give it. Online. Well, you do. Well, first of all, I want to say I'm a very generous man. I'm a big tipper. Oh, here he goes. I like to throw money around. Throw it right now. Do it right now. I'm like, you want $100? I could use it. This coffee was expensive. Look at this. Damn, dude. Put that away. I'm going to keep that. Yeah. This is how I carry my money. You're like an autistic teenager. Now, I. Tell me where you're at on this. I shouldn't say this because this is a very big podcast. Say it. You're a very famous man. Nah. When I'm in a hotel room. When I'm in a hotel, I don't like the maids in my room. So I put the Do Not Disturb on. I do that every time. And I don't have them in at all. I call for towels when every. I call for towels and that's all I need. And then they clean at the end when I leave. I don't want people in. I don't like people in the room. Yeah. I don't even call for towels. I just use the same towel over and over again. That's a mistake. Call for towels. All right. Fresh towels, so nice. I guess. Yeah. That's what you pay for. Well, so I don't leave a tip at the end of the weekend. I got no service. Interesting, interesting, interesting. And people were. One guy was like, we're from Boston. We take care of working class people, you piece of shit. That has nothing to do with Boston. And a couple of people were very upset with me, but I'm like, but I don't use their service. And they're like, right, but they clean your room when you get there. I'm like, well, that's what. That's the job. the cost of the hotel is. Correct, yeah. And then they're like, well, what about for the next person? I'm like, well, that's what they're paying for. You're right, but you're still cheap. Well, I'm not cheap. I'm very. I mean, like, I'm actually stupidly bad with. With giving money. Yeah, you're too jobless. Generous. Yeah, I'm like, I'm a fucking, financially, I'm an idiot. But I just never even thought to leave a tip, because to me, it feels like tipping, walking by a bar, and walking in and giving the bartender money, and then leaving. Yeah, he does probably need it, by the way. He does need it. Times are really tough, inflation. I haven't. They haven't done a service for me in my mind. Maybe I'm wrong, and I'll start leaving money, but it's very straight. To me, I thought, hey, I'm giving you the weekend off. You don't even have to come in here. I would argue. But I understand they don't get paid well. They don't get paid shit, and you make plenty of money. But shouldn't they be mad at the hotel? They make more money than I make, whoever owns the hotel. Ooh, dude, you're sounding. This is tough. This is gonna look bad for you. I'm telling you, though, they don't service me. Right, no, I understand. It would be like going to a gas pump and pumping your own gas, and then giving the gas guy. We do that. walking in and giving them money. It's kind of what we do in America. It's like part of our thing. Here, take this. I think I have a. I have similar. Here, look, I have similar thoughts. I also think if I leave $20, do I know that's gone? Will I know that $20 is gone? I don't understand what you're saying. I won't even. I won't. It won't affect me. Oh, but well, that's. It can make her day. Sure. It will not change my life at all. But by that rationale, do you give $20 to every homeless person you walk by? Almost, yeah. I do. I don't believe you. Okay, walk with me. Please, I'd love to. I give money. I give money. $20. So you're walking by every homeless person you see, you're giving $20 to. I don't have anything under a $20. So what am I going to. I'm not breaking it. Everywhere I go, if it. Hey, the bill is $12.65. Keep the $20. I don't want the change. Keep it. That's how I fucking operate, Pat. Well, that's special, and you're a great guy. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm a very big tipper, but I don't. Yes, certainly. No, no, I could change many people's days. Well, do it then. But I'm like, I could just walk around handing people money. You should. You should. All right, maybe I will. You privileged beast. I don't think you. I don't make as much money as you, Andrew. How about this? You're right. You are right about the hotel thing, because we do the same thing. I put the thing up on the door. I don't want people coming in and out of the room. I like the privacy. Also, I don't like a maid bed at a hotel. Call me fucking weird. I hate maid beds. I think, like, the tucking of the sheet, I hate it. Yeah, I'm the same way. I come in, I undo it. I like it undone. So leave it. I'm going to swish. Leave it how I had it. Like to point my toes. Yes, leave it how I had it. And at the end of the week, I just throw a 20 down, just because. I'm going to start. I'll start. Throw a twopper down, you won't even know. I didn't know I was doing something horrible. Some poor woman walks in who's cleaning. She's having a tough day. Her brother just got diagnosed, stage four. Her kids, one of them's really sick. And then her other kid, he's having a really tough time because his father hasn't visited in a while. And she's having a really tough. And then she sees a 20. And then she sees a 20 on the desk. And she goes, that's nice of that guy. I didn't even have to clean his fucking room. That was nice. And you make her day. And possibly a masked man with a machine gun is going to fucking hit her in the face with the butt of the gun and throw her in a truck. Yeah, if it's in New York, yeah. And she's probably going to get robbed for that money on the way home. No, no, you're right. But listen. I want to make it clear. You're right. that the guy who takes the photos in my merch line, my meet and greet line, I give him a bunch of money. Yes, yes, yes. I give the waiter a bunch of money. We know you're a generous guy. I give the door guy a bunch of money. No one thinks you're not generous. I just. It's never occurred to me to tip somebody that I'm like, dude, don't even bother. I got it. Okay, well, how about this? I'm not disagreeing with you. In stand-up, in stand-takeaway restaurants where you stand up to order and then you sit down and they bring you the food? Yeah. What's the tip on that? They didn't serve you, but they brought you the food. You stood up at a counter and da-da-ba-da-ba-da, and then they bring it to you. Well, now with the iPad, they always give you the tip, so I'll throw it. I'll go, yeah. You do automatic 20 or you do 50? I usually do 20. Automatic. Yeah. Yeah. So this is the same kind of theory. They didn't really service you. Right. They're just a part of the system. They brought the food out. But people, when they have. Sometimes they have 20, 25, 30. Five, 30, insane. Then I'll do a custom tip and give a little less than 20 because I'm like, fuck you. Fuck you. 30? That's what I do. Coffee shops wouldn't do that. A dollar, a dollar, okay. A dollar a cup of coffee. It's a cup of coffee. I'm going to give you a dollar. It's like a drink, a beer. It's a buck a beer. It's always been a buck a beer. It always will be, right? Unless I got a meal. Different story. Sure. But the only time I over-tip coffee, if it's at a shop that I go to all the time. Like this is the one I go to in the neighborhood. I give them like 20 bucks in the tip jar and that covers me for the next like five or six times I go. So that is my. That's like the. But if it's like a first-time coffee shop, if I'm walking to a coffee shop in New York and they've got 25% on there, I almost want to not tip you. Yeah, yeah. Just out of principle of like, that's fucking embarrassing. Blimey. Fuck you. I just gave the valet guy $20 this morning and he shit his pants. He was like, oh my God, thank you. You're very generous. Very generous man. Thank you. Was he Puerto Rican? Is that a Puerto Rican guy? He was some kind of Latino and I don't know. I'm not good with accents. I know. They all sound like pirate when I do it. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. But yeah, so I just didn't. It didn't occur to me to leave money when someone didn't come into my room. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. You're just Joe List. But I will. I'll do it. But tipping in general is very strange. It's odd. Because if you. and i go to fucking chilis and order a salad and a burger you tip 20 so the person gets nine dollars and then the next day we go to chateau marmont and have a couple of steaks and a dessert the bill is 400 so now we owe whatever that is 80 bucks 80 dollars yeah it's the same amount of work just one guy brought better quality food so he makes more money it's very odd this is a class argument this is very interesting this is actually an interesting conversation it's very strange it's a class argument right it's like who is able to get those nicer jobs at better restaurants that are more expensive and what goes into that right it's a class argument that's what's really crazy you're like why is that guy deserve more than that person it's not it's a fact that they were able to have the ability to get that other job depending on other factors in their life a lot of it is also aesthetics let's be honest right anytime you go to a nice restaurant it's usually good-looking people that are working there yeah so a big faction of that is how you're raised where you're raised it's a sociological experiment over that is really fucked up like if you put if you put a very unattractive unkempt person in a very fancy place would they still get the same amount of tips doing the same amount of work as a very good-looking person who works at that same place and are they nice though just as nice but i guarantee you aesthetics mean something to people people are very shallow you will give more money to people that are better looking we do things for better looking people like when when a handsome guy is like walking behind me right and i'm going to hold the door open for you better believe i'm going to hold the door for the guy if it's an ugo walking right through i'm not even acknowledging their existence the question is would you hold the door for me if i just saw you and didn't know you yeah no i'm closing it yeah i'm sorry yeah i had a feeling i appreciate you shooting me straight i just said this to my wife i was we were talking the other day because i got a mess you know instagram that people send you messages hey would you uh read my sketch my thing and i i realized there's the there's the attractive uh advantage and i'm like who are these fucking people why would i read and i saw the little yeah the icon and i'm like actually let me see who this because it was a woman i'm like let me see what she looks like here and there was that moment now i'm not a guy that's going to take advantage of her like but there is the thing in your brain that's like is this person attractive and they weren't so but if they are you immediately pay attention to you're like this maybe i'll read the script like 100 of course now the very attractive people have icons that aren't their photos because they know they don't need it they've already gotten it so they've gotten so much attention they've gotten so much attention validation their whole life that they go and i know how hot i am i don't need the thing right you know oh my phone is vibrating it's dying i think that was a reminder put that in your ass next time oh get gas do you ever have this rent when you rent a car who wrote get gas i did you you reminded yourself to get gas because well i'm getting into a premise jesus here we go when you rent a car i sometimes i forget the it needs gas because it's just a some other car you don't have a car in new so you know about gas well my car this is what i'm saying psychologically i'm very aware of my car it's my car i know what my car needs like for instance i know i need a salad or exercise i'm not thinking hey don't forget to eat a vegetable today it'd be nice to get it'd be nice to get that text from you i'm gonna shoot you a text until you need some broccolini but with a rental car i kind of forget that needs gas and they fucked me at alamo i rented my car drove three miles and looked half tank. What is that? It's just a sedan. No, no, but they gave me a car. Oh, they fucked you with the gas? Yeah, yeah. They fucked me at Alamo. So I took a photo. I want that as your next slogan, they fucked me at Alamo. You know they fucked me at Alamo? Remember. Remember. That's very good. We're coming up with some gold here. We're killing it. So anyways, I was driving over here through the Hollywood Hills, and I'm at like, I have 80 miles to go, so I have no phone, no gas. I'm in a bad spot here. Yeah, I don't know how to help you. I do think, karmatically, if you started to leave more tips at hotels, this would all work out. Well, I think if you didn't move the time of this podcast, none of this would have been an issue. Perhaps, perhaps. Also, this is going to teach you multiple layers of life lessons and also work out better in the long run for you. Watch Small Ball on YouTube. Please, I'm a 43-year-old father. I mean, I know the lessons. He's got a kid. He's going to have another one on the way. How many views is small? How many views is small ball at now? 870. We've got to get small ball over a million. Let's get it over a million. And that's just the latest special. There's four specials on YouTube. But small ball is the one you want everyone to watch. Yeah, but watch them all. Collect them all. Maybe you've never heard of me. No, they've heard of you. People know. And they go, oh. 876, three months ago. We do have to get this full special, small ball, over that hump of a million. Please. You did at Zany's? I did at both Zany's, and we cut them together. Zany's Nashville? No, no, no. Zany's. The downtown, and what's that fucking. Zany's Chicago? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, shit. It's Schaumburg. No, no, no. That's the improv. Oh, I'm sorry. It's a. Rosemont. Rosemont. Yeah, Rosemont. It's fucking great. I've never played it. I've never. You know, I've never. Isn't that funny? Chicago's my hometown, and I've never played the Rosemont Zany's, and I've never played. I've only done guest spots on the downtown, like a pop-in. What happened? Why don't. I never did a weekend. Well, because when I first started touring, I think I was really scared of playing home. Like, it was, like, in my brain. And then by the time I, like, got enough of a fan base to play at home, the first show I did, I did the Beat Kitchen, which is, like, a music venue. It's, like, a 300-seat music venue or something. And then after that, I was gonna do Talia Hall. And then I started doing Chicago theaters. Oh, wow. So I'd already, like. I was just so scared to tour at home, man. Right. Home is, like, a fucking nightmare for me. It's not fun. Well, that's. When we did the half hours, that was in Boston, which is my hometown. It's the worst. I would never record or do anything in Boston again because it was a TV show. That just happened to be where they shot. It's just hard to do at home. And I was recording a half-hour comedy special, and I could see 17 members of my family like this. It sucks. It's so hard at home. It was terrible. That's why people go, don't you love playing in Boston? Don't you love playing in Chicago? I'm always like, I love it because I'm home, but it's. But then it's, like, 90 people being like, hey, can my friend's friend's friend's brother's cousin come? And you're like, sure. I just. I have so many other things to do. Right. And literally, it's like my mother. My mother calling me, being like, where do we park? I'm freaking out. And I'm like, I don't know. Don't come. You have to park somewhere. I don't know. Don't come. Don't come. Please don't come. Yeah. Yeah, so it is funny. Yeah, Chicago. Yeah, I just. Like, did you do. You do Wilbur's when you go home, yeah? I do the Wilbur, yeah. How many do you do? One. You can do more than one. I'm not successful, Andrew. You are. You're just. I'm telling you. You are. I do one. One's good. One is great. I don't want to be doing two. You can do two. Well, maybe next. Maybe with this. No, I know you can do two. As good as you are. If I could get on Rogan, I think that would. Didn't you do Rogan? Four times. Yeah. Isn't that the funniest thing? I love when people say to me, they go, you should do Rogan. It's like, I've done it ten times. No, I had someone say recently, like, I think once you get Rogan, though, you'll be in a different level. And I'm like, I've done it four times. And they're like, oh. They're like, four times recently? Uh-huh. But no, I'm playing the slow game. But you guys go wild. You watch Small Ball, you'll shit your pants, then watch the other three. And can I plug something else, too? No. I made a film, Jerry. I should have sent it. That's such a good line. I should have sent it to you, but I feel weird asking people things. Is that a title list? Hole in one. I made a movie called Tom Dustin Portrait of a Comedian. It's a documentary. I'll send it to you if you ever want to watch it. I would actually love to. Comics love it. Bill Burr loved it. Mark loved it. Ari said it was the funniest doc he's ever seen. Ari Shafir? Yeah. Don't trust him. Well, you don't have to. He's in the jungle now. Yeah, what that motherfucker did. He's so weird. Throws away his phone for weeks at a time. When he lived in L.A., he was evasive like that, too. He would disappear. He's such a fucking weirdo. Yeah, he stinks. Send it to me. I'd love to see it. Yeah. And Born on the Fourth of July. No, that's the Tom Cruise. That's your movie. No, Fourth of July is my movie. Born on the Fourth of July is Tom Cruise. I get confused. This happens a lot. People think that I'm Tom Cruise. You're not Tom Cruise? I'm not. But I can run. What's the name of your movie again? The new one. Oh, the new one? No, Fourth of July, I know. The other one. Fourth of July. Tom Dustin. Tom Dustin. You ever meet Tom Dustin? No. He's a wonderful man. And you did a documentary about him. Yeah, he's a comedian. We started together. He moved to Key West, and I moved to New York, and we're best buddies. Tom Dustin? D-U-S-T-I-N. Do you still keep in contact with him? Yeah, yeah, I made a movie about him. Tom Dustin, Portrait of a Comedian. Yeah, it's on PunchUpLive.com. Now, why is this? Why is what? Why is this man so. interesting to you? Well, he's hilarious. He's one of the. He's just an all-time comedy character, and he's one of these guys that everyone that meets him has a Tom Dustin story. He's like a legend among comedians that have known him and met him. I see this guy. Yeah. You should go down there and do the room sometime. It's a fun room. No, thank you. I didn't think so, but. Where is it? Key West? Key West. It's fucking awesome. Sure. All your friends have done it. Name a friend. Someone that's done the room. Yeah. Nick Swartzen, I bet, has done the room. Yeah, absolutely he has. Yeah, because he loves down there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was down there. I didn't know Nick Swartzen lived there. You know how you do the thing where you go, hey, look, it's fucking Michael J. Fox with a suit. Yeah. And I went, hey, look, Nick Swartzen in a cowboy hat. And Tom Dustin was like, that's literally Nick Swartzen in a cowboy hat. Yeah. And I was like, huh. Yeah, he lived on there for a year. For a year and a couple of months, he spent a million dollars at the hotel. Do you know the story? I've heard some stories, but I don't think I know the story. He went down there to Key West during COVID to get away, and he stayed at the hotel and drank and partied. He partied for just over a year and spent just, I think, just shy or just over a million dollars in hotel bills. That's a lot of dollars. I hope so. I hope he tipped. That's Nick. He did not. He said that very adamantly. And he kept the thing on his room the whole time. Wow. For an entire calendar year. Now, I want to check that out. Please watch Small Ball Runner. And will you send me that movie? And where is it? Where is it available? It's on Punch-Up Live. Punch-Up Live. Punch-Up, great website. No, they called me about doing that thing. I had a conversation with him about it. He's awesome. Yeah, no, I don't. I should do it. I won't. He's a great guy. That's kind of been my whole life. I should do it. I won't. I'm the same way. I'm like, oh, I should do that. And I won't. Yeah, I'm a big fuck-up. Someone's like, you should put more clips online. I'm like, I should. I won't. Well, yeah, don't get me. This is why I don't sell more than one. Everyone started doing clips on Instagram. And I'm like, you fucking idiots. This is about photographs. And I was posting sunsets and brick walls. And I had to open and start a second Instagram, JoeListPhotography. Because finally, I was like, I guess I got to stop doing this. Well, you like taking photos. I do. This is a second career for you. It is. But the first one's working out just fine. Watch Small Ball right now. JoeList, one of the funniest working comics today, vouched by many, verified and checked off by many of our great favorites, do say behind your back you're one of the best comics. And I do agree with that. You've always been such a funny, sweet, good guy. And I hope continued success in your career. And I can't look at you when I say that, because I'll laugh, because I don't mean any of it. Joe is the man. Please watch Small Ball. The link in the description down below. We end the show the same way, with one word or one phrase. Look into that camera. One word or one phrase. Zaire. In here, we pour whisk, whisk, whisk, whisk, whisk. You're that creature in the ginger beard. Sturdy and ginger. Gingers are hell no. Ginger. I like gingers.