Jobey Thomas: From Hoops to Houses

Welcome to the Layups and Gimmies Podcast. I'm Joe B. Thomas. And I'm Jonathan Dianney. And these are can't miss lessons for long term success. Simple foundational lessons that if not taken for granted, will help you score in life and business. Let's get rolling. Welcome back to another Layups and Gimmies. Super excited to have Joe B. Thomas, my friend, business partner. With us today, Joe B grew up native Charlotte. And Barry abnormal nowadays, but grew up in Charlotte, played basketball at UNCC 49 are legend. Went over overseas and played basketball professionally for 13 years has been in real estate for coming up on nine years now. And beautiful wife, beautiful family already has won in college. Super excited to hear more about Joe B and his journey. Let's get into it, bud. Excited to be here. Let's start at the beginning. Kind of gave it away, but childhood, where were you born? Was it exactly Charlotte, a part of Charlotte? Give us a little light into that. Yeah, grew up what is now annexed into Min Hill, North Carolina was Charlotte. So just on the outskirts of Charlotte. Yeah, you know, great upbringing to hard working parents, both my parents work and say we were middle class. We worked hard. My parents worked extremely hard to make sure we never went without and they were supportive. They were there, present and yet it was an awesome upbringing. But I learned, you know, really hard work from them, seeing how hard they both worked. My mom especially, it was the hardest worker that I've ever met. And, you know, and then, yeah, my brother and I, my brother's two years younger, Andy still lives here locally as well with his family to all some boys and wife Laura. So yeah, thankful to be still here and seeing the city. Obviously, change a lot over the years and very rare that you meet people who have won a race here and my wife happens to be from here as well. So even more unique. We'll get into her into a little bit. What any early, super early memories from your childhood that you want to shed light on? Yeah, as I said, I mean, great childhood. I mean, sports were always a huge part of my upbringing and it wasn't that my parents force that on us at all. In fact, my mom did play high school basketball. Herchee was pretty good. But my dad, you skills from your mom? Yeah, yeah, I believe so. And my dad actually played the clarinet in the high school band, which is somewhat comical to think about. But, you know, very different upbringing. And so sports was just something I naturally loved. You know, the young age, my mom says I was dribbling a basketball before I could walk. Yeah, I don't know how true that is. But, you know, I definitely always had a ball in my hand. So that was just something I loved doing and really many respects probably built my life around that and then too much and some respects. But it kept me probably, you know, it kept me focused, discipline, I learned what it meant to work hard, to work with others, so many valuable lessons that we could even get into. And so that's what I remember about my childhood, you know, good friendships overall and in a really great home and growth band. When did that real love for basketball begin? So it's interesting baseball and basketball, I would say, were, I loved them equally and played both baseball and basketball from a very young age. My first T-ball team, I think it was five first basketball team in the athletic association shout out MHAA while six years old. And so I just love playing both. And it wasn't until later, really, my freshman year high school. I played both even my freshman high school that I end up choosing basketball. Also played tennis growing up. That was something that I started probably, I was 10 years old. Just we went to a little local, it actually Windsor Park. Shout out, it was a park neighborhood. Windsor Park, swim right club. She'd ride by there today. It's a deserted hole in the ground that's been field and nothing there. I played F for a few years, but it came down to my parents. It's pretty much that you have to choose. Actually played soccer as well. And I think about it probably six to eight or nine years old. So anything that had to do with a ball, I love. But it was my end of my freshman year high school that I really decided basketball was a direction I wanted to go and the sport I really wanted to pursue. And did you have a role model or mentor in that area that helped guide you in that direction? Was it your parents? Was it a coach or anyone that helped in that regard? Yes, so actually it was what I would call a negative experience that pushed me in that direction. Back to the end of times it really changed, but AAU basketball was very, very popular. We had two teams in the city of Charlotte, so we had the Sonics and the Royals. And you actually had tryouts. Was it paid for play? They literally would go around all the athletic associations, rec centers, etc. and recruit the best kids in the city to come to tryouts. And so I didn't know it until later, but apparently my parents had been getting letters from these organizations since I was 10 years older. They didn't want me to play. Now as a parent, I understand it's kind of young and the commitment is high and you're traveling and practicing, etc. But when I was 13, my dad finally let me play. And so I got into play AAU basketball. That was usually March to July into July. And so fast forward to my freshman year high school basketball season was over. I was in the baseball and I played in JV baseball that year. And I was a pitcher and catcher. I would say catcher, pitcher, primarily catcher, believe it or not, tall and lanky. You know, thankful that I didn't continue down that path with my knees. These knees would be worse. So we had a state championship AAU basketball tournament Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I don't remember where in Raleigh or somewhere in the state of North Carolina, we had a JV baseball game Friday and I had to make a decision. Am I going to go to my JV baseball game? I don't have four or five games left in the season or am I going to my AAU State basketball championship and that qualifies us for the nationals. And it was a pretty easy decision for me and I'm going to go to the basketball. And so I went to talk to my coach about it and instead of being an understanding coach, it's a JV basketball game. He had a huge ego, was a complete jerk and kicked me off the team. Wow. And so I remember going sitting down, have a meeting with him and the varsity coach who I respected and knew well and thought how you relationship with and thinking them in the scout vouch for me. And this is to me ridiculous and he pretty much backed the JV coach and that was the last time I ever touched the baseball. And my dad especially was not happy just because he felt like I had a brighter future in baseball. I was pretty good at honestly any sport I picked up and what it did for me though, it just lit what was already a fire in my belly if you will to be the best to say, okay, then I'm going to prove everybody wrong, dad included and I'm going to go and play basketball. And so, yeah, so that was the end of my baseball career and what really propelled me to pursue basketball. And when did you realize, you know, fast forward maybe a year or two or three, however long it was? And I realized like, I'm actually good enough to do this in college. And this is something I want to pursue in college. And was it always something you wanted to pursue or did you kind of feel like, well, I'm really talented. So I'm supposed to pursue something like this. I feel like that's a hard balance sometimes. Yeah. No, I mean, I was never want to feel like it was an obligation. I loved it. I couldn't get enough of it. We could talk to some of my neighbors growing up. I remember we moved from one house to another when I was in fourth grade and we only moved like two miles away and my parents got me a basketball. whoop outside like in the driveway and it was just like life changing for me. And so I remember Friday nights, weekends, whatever, rain sleets, snow, I'm out there shooting basketball. And so I always desired that it was my sophomore year. So I played varsity, played freshman at Independence High School. My freshman year, we were I think 17, 18 and one really good team played well. I was confident, I always felt like, hey, I want this. I want to play professionally. Yeah, wow. You know, I definitely want to play collegially, but I had bigger aspirations. Michael Jordan was a, you know, my hero growing up. And so my sophomore year, I made varsity and we had good teams. And I played intermittently. I didn't play a ton, but it was on there for get state playoffs. And it was the first or second game of the state playoffs my sophomore year. I got in and I was playing really well and ended up playing extremely well. We ended up losing the game, but you know, I may have 16 or so points. It was just a huge confidence booster for me as well as I think the coach. We had a different, so we had a head coach, coach D. And then the assistant coach coach Huggins that year, my sophomore year, well, the very next year, Coach Huggins got the head job going into my junior season at Independence. And I felt like from that season on, I think that gave me more confidence even going into a U where I started to play really well and started to get a sense for. Okay. I could play us in college fast forward the very next year, my junior year. I started in the being a leading score on the North Carolina for a state championship team got MVP of the state championship game and the Dean Dome. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, against Richmond senior high school. That was at that point. It was like, you know, the floodgates open on recruitment played really well in a U. And, you know, and knew at that point that there was a huge opportunity. So, you know, back during those times, I mean, I'm not that old, but much older than you. So, before the day and age of the internet, colleges would send letters in the mail. And so, to get a letter from a college in the mail and it would be, you know, type letter or handwritten letter and be signed by the university, it was just like, I mean, from my really sophomore junior year going, especially that the probably a 24 month kind of time frame just before my senior year, sophomore to senior year, that was what probably the most exciting part of my day coming home to see who sent me letters, who sent me media guys stuff like that. Yeah, unbelievable. So, I mean, I still have my mom has somewhere and boxes and boxes and box like thousands of letters and stuff from every school in the country, handwritten letter from, you know, Tommy Amaker assistant coach at Duke to, you know, Florida, Indiana, big schools, smaller schools, in some more serious than others. So, that really at that point was, you know, sure, yeah, it was pretty affirming that that had an opportunity. Before we get into college, you know, our podcast can't miss lessons for long term success. What would you say is a lesson that you learned in high school that you still implement to this day. That's a great question. Man, I think just given what I shared about what happened with my baseball coach and even, you know, I could go into a lot more detail about high school. It wasn't easy, even that junior year, the year that we want to stay championship coach Huggins is still a great friend of mine to this day. You know, at 15, 16 years old, I didn't really understand. I mean, he was hard on me really hard times. I wanted to quit. But I think just a simple principle of, you know, pushing through when times are hard and, you know, and I feel like I have no quit in me. I think that's the way really God made me. You know, that's maybe sounds cliche or, you know, like fluff, but the reality is like I just just have something burning within me like I like failures, not an option quitting is not option, I should say, I mean, you know, fall short of goals and things all the time, but it's not because of of efforts. I think that's just the, probably the one lesson, there are obstacles. Yes, we had success. It was not easy. We worked extremely hard. I had to put forth incredible amount of effort. But it's just knowing that that the hard times were, we're actually going to make me better and that I was able to kind of get through those and then getting through that on other sides, I got older and realizing, man, he loved me coach Huggins did. He wanted the best in me. He saw something to me that I didn't even see it myself and knew that, you know, this was this was the way he's going to get out of me. Yeah, that's good. So yeah, that transition, like, I mean, obviously like we just heard a lot of letters, a lot of recruitment, how why you and CC why Charlotte. Yeah, you want to stay close to home. Did you want to go somewhere different? How was that decision made? Yes, so absolutely not. In fact, I said, out loud, I will never stay home and go to UNC Charlotte. Now that yeah, now they now they famous last words, right? Be careful. Be careful what you say you're not going to do. Now, you know, UNC Charlotte athletically, they go by by Charlotte. I would love for them to change the name should be Charlotte University University Charlotte. I know why they don't they get a lot of money from the University of North Carolina system. So I really wanted to go to ACC. I grew up a huge North Carolina Tarwhale fan. I was one of the few schools in the country that didn't even send me a letter. And you know, again, I realized I was, you know, I was top 100 and most rankings come out of high school in the country. But you know, schools like Carolina, they can hand pick and in the landscape of college athletics was so different than, you know, not even remotely close to the NIL, the, you know, the one and done all that stuff. So so you came into college, you knew you're going to be there four years. Rare instances, maybe three. You're incredible. I knew, you know, probably wasn't going to be me. So I was going to be there four years. Probably the first two years going to be hard to play. You kind of pay your dues. You know, learn from upperclassmen. Learn what it means to be a college athlete and then your time comes. And so when North Carolina didn't recruit me, you know, little shot to the pride, but, but if I was realistic, I understood. I do believe I could have played there. So NC State, Clemson, Charlotte, you into Charlotte Charlotte, LSU, Davidson, believe it or not, we're probably the schools that recruited me harder than any Wakeflarse came in late. The interesting thing is I visited Clemson NC State LSU, I tell you a little bit more about that in a moment, but I would have signed at Clemson or NC State on the spot. Like them both there in the ACC, he thought there's a good opportunity for me. Yeah. The way it works in basketball, you know, 12 scholarships, you've got limited positions, you know, you don't need 10 shooting guards, right. I was a shooting guard. I was for Clemson NC State. They're basically their second choice at the two guard position. You also have to think, you know, what teams need rights to go back to Carolina to be fair. They might not need a shooting guard or what have you. And so they wanted me to wait and sign later in the late signing period in the spring, maybe even early into the fall of my senior year, I really wanted to sign early. I don't know why I guess I just wanted decision to be made. I could lock in focus, not have to worry about that. And so it came down to Charlotte, LSU and Davidson. It was 98% going to LSU. It was pretty much a done deal, took my official visit there, really liked it. SEC school, thank enough the history, you know, should kill a meal and Pete Mayor, Vitch and others. It was a long way from home and they just got a brand new coach and there was rumbling in the air that they may go on probation for some NCAA infractions violations recruiting, et cetera. And it was important to me to be on a successful team, a team that opportunity to play an NCAA tournament postseason. That was a dream in mind. I'm not into playing college, but together the NCAA tournament. So believe it or not, I end up, Davidson was not the Davidson now. This was prior to Steph Curry. Interestingly enough, Coach McKilla, who, you know, recent retired, great coach, they recruited me better than any school in the country. But my parents wanted me to go there because they were looking at from an academic standpoint. I was 18 years old and said my high school has more students than Davidson. There's no way I'm going there, not a chance. And they just weren't as good. They weren't as good a conference. I was trying to play at the highest level. I won, you know, I had big aspirations and it just wasn't appealing to me. So in fairness, in my mind, there was never even an option though I kind of led them on in some respects, let them be a serious part of the recruitment. So last minute, I end up visiting Charlotte on an official visit. They kind of won me and don't miss America at the time. Took me around campus. She, some, I don't know. There was some technicality where she had enrolled in a couple of classes at UNC Charlotte. So she was a student. They could get away with it. Interestingly enough, they, you know, somebody told them, try to get them in trouble. I think it was Davidson. After the fact. I started to get the sense for man. I'm a local kid. They just built a brand new arena, Halt Arena. They were in conference USA. It was this new conference. It had schools like Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis, Marquette, Houston, South Florida, DePaul. It was, you know, it was attractive. And I started thinking, man, maybe I stay home and we can build something great. And here, when that be a cool story. And the last minute, I kind of changed my mind. My high school coach and my AAU coach were, you know, again, love them. Good relationship. I see it from the outside looking in. They're like, you're crazy. You can get an LSU and arguably start as a freshman. They were down at the time. This is SEC. Charlotte had just signed a player from Oak Hill Academy. He was a great coach for shooter, D-Tilever, still a friend of mine this day. He was really good. And he was a year ahead of me. So you're going to go in and try to compete with him. Like it just on paper didn't make sense. Yeah. So what made you make that decision? I don't know, man. It's something in me. I just felt like this is the right place for me. I think there was an element. I could have gone far away. But there's an element of I enjoy my family being able to watch me. My parents were involved, as I mentioned earlier. And so my parents were, I think, really excited that I decided to stay home. So that was the long-winded story I ended up staying. Did you start out of the gate? How was that? Yeah. So crazy. I signed the play for Melvin Wackens. Coach Bobby Lutz was the associate head coach, top assistant coach. Before I got to school, I don't remember the exact timeline, but this was months before. Charlotte lost the Chapel Hill in overtime. Pretty much a buzzer beater type situation. Second round, the NCAA tournament. Wow. So this is my senior year high school at Arsene at Charlotte. Melvin Wackens gets the Texas A&M job. So I could have followed him to Texas A&M. I could have gotten out of my commitment to Charlotte. Coach Lutz ends up getting the job. He loved me. He was a big part of the recruitment. And I think that in the best thing could ever have to be. I stated Charlotte, I go, you know, I competed my till off and I end up starting all, but I think nine games my freshman year. I think I still have the minutes played record at the university. Wow. That's fun. And it's crazy to think about because, you know, again, from outside looking in, it didn't look like the right decision. Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Let's take a little break away from basketball. I know Charlotte, you met someone super, super special and you're beautiful, Brad Kristen. Where do you all meet? How do you all meet? Give us a little light into your best friend. Yeah. Absolutely. A wild story there. Well, I would say it's just clearly a god thing. So Kristen, I went to the same junior high school now. The call middle school is junior high then. I was a year ahead of her. So we actually have a picture. So y'all met before college. Oh, absolutely. Way before college. Wow. That was 12 years old, I think. But different friend groups didn't really know each other. You know, we have a picture of my middle school baseball team at Northeast and Kristen is a scorekeeper. So it's kind of funny. So I end up going to independence as a scorekeeper. Not at the time admittedly. We joke about it. I end up going. So back then it was seventh, eighth and ninth grade was junior high. So they had not even transitioned to high school and ninth, tenth, eleventh, eleventh, eleventh, so I mean, you are more than me. So the first year, so my eighth grade year, the following year was the first year that they were starting this transition high school, ninth through 12th. And so half my class stayed at Northeast, half went to independence. And I wanted for sports. I wanted to get hang of independence. And so I went and then Kristen ended up coming. Of course, she was a year behind me later. We ended up having a class. I just, my senior year, her junior year of high school was kind of an elective class where we would go around and do different things at elementary schools. Talk to kids, et cetera. It was for athletes. And it was, that's where I really got to know her some. Remember riding in her car to some events and stuff like that. But there was no attraction, honestly. I liked her. I thought she was great. You know, very, very attractive, but I wasn't natural. There wasn't, she was dating somebody at the time again, where high school. So I go to UNC Charlotte. I don't even think she knows that I went there. I saw it for more years at Charlotte. I was at a weekly. It was a local, it was a ministry on campus, campus outreach. I was actually speaking. I got asked to speak that evening, kind of share my testimony because I went through huge transformation in my life. My freshman year started participating in a Bible study with my teammates and really, God began to change my world, my whole perspective on life, et cetera. And so I was sharing about this a little bit of myself more year, probably 150 kids come to these, you know, weekly meetings and lo and behold in the back. There's, there's Kristen. And I was like, then you got a little more nervous than I was excited. It's like, wow, I remember from high school. I also remember her as a, just a really wholesome, good girl, very attractive. And it was just like, and from that moment on, I was like, I'm going to marry that girl. It's crazy. It sounds. And so I went and talked to her and, you know, started a conversation. She was like, what are you doing here? She knew me in high school, very different. Yeah. To be at this, you know, this weekly ministry talking about this transformation in my life was strange. So we started dating and that began the process of us being together. That's awesome. I want to keep hearing more about Kristen and your family. Is that continues to progress? But give us a couple highlights of your time at UNCC. Maybe some really fun moments. Any awesome memories or games or highlights of, yeah, just, just your play there before we kind of go into your next chapter. Yeah. So great memories of my time at Charlotte. We made three NCAA tournaments in my four seasons. That's cool because I mean, you were saying like that was a big, you know, dream of yours, not just to play college basketball. Exactly. To actually get to go to the tournament and be a part of the tournament. How are, how are those experiences? Yeah. How far did y'all, what was y'all's furthest you ever made it? Yeah. So it's one of those things that, man, it's like, you know, it's bittersweet because we, we made the tournament three or four years that other year, we made the NIT. Yeah. We called the not important tournament. Where's a basketball team? We did not want to be there at all. Do you think anyone wants to be there? I mean, it's interesting. I don't know. Kids are different nowadays. Yeah. To be honest, I mean, I love my mom, I'm otter, I support them, you know, ho harley, but they would give anything to get to the NIT now because it's been so long since they've been the real postseason play. They did win a call to CBI tournament, which is some generic tournament. They low, low level tournament last year that personally, I don't even count. But so, yeah, we, we advanced the second round twice and lost in the first round. senior year. We you know. It was it was incredible fun. I felt like both years that we advanced. We were to the round of 32, round 32 definitely. So my freshman year, we play Lamar Odom, NBA legend, uh, Rhode Island. We were the five seed in Rhode Island and it being a 12 seed and they were good. We ended up being them and over time. It was crazy. I'm like, man, we're gonna lose to 12 seed, but they were really good. He was obviously incredible. We get Oklahoma, who had just knocked off number one seed Arizona, I believe. And got Eduardo Naharai and a plane in the NBA for the Mavericks and other teams. But our starting center, Kelvin Price, a huge part of our team gets sick. Food poison, the flu or something can't play. We end up losing and I'm just confident if Kelvin doesn't get sick, we win. So then fast forward my, let's see my junior year, probably the best team I was on. We were crazy talented. We were in the eight nine game. We were, I don't know if we're the eight or not. I think with the eight Tennessee was a nine. They had been as high as like top four in the country that year. They were so good. My buddy Ron slaves gonna be on the podcast. Was on that team and we weren't friends at the time, but we ended up playing three plus years overseas together. One of my closest friends to this day. I always get my hard time. We ended up beating them really close game. And then we get number one seed Illinois, who was crazy good that year. Should have made the final four. They lost an elite eight and lost. And then my senior year, we first around we ended playing Notre Dame eight nine game again. I get sick. So my last ever college game, what it turns out to be I had just crazy, you know, I won't go into details. I was very sick for a few days getting IVs still played and just was, I mean, you know, I was average in 19 20 game roughly and I mean, at six points or something like that, just churning down the four Notre Dame beat us like a drum. We had to do the next game. So it's like one of those things were great memories and yet just bittersweet because we felt like we definitely could have made it farther than we did. But all in all is I look back. I mean, man, the play in three NCAA tournaments, great memories. I mean, playing in great venues, Cincinnati, you know, they wouldn't necessarily say we arrived. We'll be back then. I remember, you know, Dick Vatel coming in their top five in the country and, you know, we knocked them off at home, never one there. They were so good. And really, Kenyan Martin doesn't break his leg. My junior senior year, they would have, I mean, hands down. I think one national championship, number one team in the country for a lot of the year and so forth. So just some really, really good teams, good memories. I remember playing in places like, you know, Indiana, assembly hall, just, you know, we, we, my freshman year, so almost, almost sweet redemption. We played Chapel Hill in the Dindo, lost in overtime on a tip in by, by Brendan Haywood. And all I wanted to beat them so freaking bad. You know, but we were also close. They'll, you know, they would have never played us again. It was a game that had been, you know, that they had scheduled years prior to it. And they knew it was like, we could easily lose to them. And if we beat them, everybody said, oh, you should have beat them. Yeah. So a lot of good memories, really, really good teams each and every year. And, you know, I think I made the right decision. I wouldn't, going back, I wouldn't, you know, trade that decision for another one. I feel like it was, it was the best thing that could happen to me. Yeah. And as we all know, I mean, it's, it's one thing to make it into D1 basketball elite level. But then to go play professionally, that's a, that's a whole another animal. So as you're kind of getting closer to your junior and senior year, when did you kind of realize like, I knew you, you know, you talked about how you always had the dream, but everyone that has the dream doesn't also have the ability or the opportunity to play. So when did that kind of come to fruition and you realize, I can do this like and have that belief. Yeah. It was probably my senior year. I mean, I felt like that's, that was the goal. Yeah. But I started to, you know, get good feedback. I ended up making first team all conference. So, you know, five players in the whole conference, the conference you'll say back then again, I mentioned the team's super strong. Yeah. Playing incredibly well. It hadn't had Steve Logan guard it since the nanny not had it just out of his mind year. I think what I got player the year, I don't, I might have been second in voting. And, uh, which is bittersweet, because that's one of the requirements at our university to get your jersey retired is you have to be conference player the year, which I'm like man back then it was, it was loaded. It's so hard to do. But the rules are the rules. So, um, so yeah, uh, I started to to feel like, all right, there's an opportunity here and, you know, talking to my coaches and so forth. So I was one of these guys that was going to be, you know, they're 64 people, usually 65 players, I think at the time, invited to Chicago pre-draft camp, the NBA camp, you know, two rounds, 50 something picks, uh, in the NBA draft, first rounds guaranteed, second round is not, but a lot of those early second rounders will get a one or two year guarantee and it's a good way. They didn't have the, the G league, you know, they called the D league back then, uh, the way they do now kind of this farm system and so forth. So, hmm, you really are opportunity, you play an NBA or, you know, maybe try to go overseas or something like that. I wasn't even thinking about that. It was NBA bus for me. Prior to Chicago pre-draft camp, there's something called the port smith invetational and kind of Norfolk, Virginia, port smith area, uh, where they invite guys, I would say you've got the first tier top 25, you know, lottery pick type players who aren't going to play in port smith. And then it's called for 26 to, to, to 100. Yeah. Uh, these guys get invited to port smith. They put them on teams. They play every NBA scout GM, uh, coaches there. They still do that to this day. Uh, I don't know if they still do port smith or not. No, they've changed some things up, but it was, it was historic. I mean, go back or a history of the port smith invetational. So, uh, that was step one, gotten by the port smith. I made all port smith. Wow. Played really well. Uh, hired an agent at that point, um, through the help of my college coach. And, um, I got invited Chicago pre-draft in top 65. It was back then they would throw the ball up. So moody Bible college in Chicago. I mean, Phil Jackson, Jerry West, all these people are there watching you close doors. Um, you talk about nervous. I was, I was nervous. Uh, but it was pretty much pickup style basketball throw the ball up play. They put you on teams. Um, I wanted to be there. I never was afraid of the moment. I thought, man, put me in that environment. I'm going to, I'm going to go get it. But, you know, it wasn't the best setup for my game, um, especially then I was, you know, I was a shooter. That was, that was what I did best. Um, but just going out there playing pickup, you know, the ball dominant kind of point guards are the ones that, that excelled in that environment. Right. Now it's more like the NFL. They got a combine style, pre-draft camp. You're, you know, we did testing and, you know, uh, bench press, vertical leap, uh, you know, shoulder runs, these things. But they didn't put you through all the drills and stuff like that. And that's where I would have really excelled. So probably in hindsight, the worst thing I could have known was actually played at, at the NBA combine. Um, I should have sat not gone, uh, because I worked out for teams prior to the draft. I worked out for five or six teams. I absolutely killed my Golden State Warriors workout, like dominated. And there's another guy who's going to be a late first or second round pick that, um, that, you know, they put me head to head against. And I, I mean, they said that I had the best workout of any player that worked out that draft. So my, idea, my agent was telling me, Hey, they're probably going to take you, I think they had like the 30 second pick. So just one, two picks in the second round. And if we get that, and then you'll probably get a one or two year guarantee, this and that. I go to Chicago. They put me on the team with the Golden State Warriors coaches. They want to see me again. I end up just the first game. I just didn't play well. Yeah. I shot terribly. So, um, they ended up like, eh, you know, going drafted, they end up drafting Steve Logan, who was confident. Just like player of the year. I mentioned earlier. Yeah. Uh, and he was kind of one and done in the alley. Um, and so they invited me to camp. And, uh, kind of went into summer league and camp with them and, and they ended up, you know, first year at a school, right? First year at school. This is all, you know, this is that, you know, June. Yeah. It's actually May, May, June, July. Okay. Type time frame draft is in June. And, uh, had just gotten married. And, uh, and, and so had these NBA aspirations ended up not getting a guarantee or anything. And then my agent's like, all right, we're going overseas. And I was just like, what? How did your wife take that? Just got married. Yeah. Two and 21. Yeah. I was 22. Hey, sweetie. We're going across the pond. Not only we're going across the pond. We have no idea where we're going. Uh, you know, we're broke as a joke. My agents lend me money. Um, you know, literally, uh, you know, taking, taking our small loan from him just to just kind of get through and Yeah, yeah, it was it was tough plus my pride like man. I feel like I should have been in the NBA and that didn't happen and so I ended up Getting an opportunity to go to Italy. Wow for a one week try out. It was You know a contract pending a try out. I go town called Emola playing incredibly well Excited actually like okay. I like it here. Whatever And great culture. Yeah, they bring me in the last day. Some thinking okay, everything's good Italian coach done speaking English. That's how you had an American assistant coach. You got name Rod Griffin Started wake far so many many years ago had married an Italian lived over there. Whatever so it was also a good report Rye were both to North Carolina kids Is that man? We really like you. They like you, but We can't keep you. It's like what like I'm just killed for a week and they said uh First of all your agent said that you were more of a small forward like Respect my agent doing what he had to do to get me in the door. Yeah But we have an Italian player Vincenzo Esposito who's the first Italian ever playing the NBA who you know, I'm 22 at the time. He's 35 This is his hometown They wanted to sign him ticket sales his his last hurrah And uh you guys are pretty much the same position So we'd love to keep you we just we just can't yeah, so I was pretty much crushed. So I left there Directly another gun punch and went straight to Greece My agent had me another Opportunity on the island of Crete first division Greece Kristen's with you. Nope by myself. She's still at home First uh first division Greece more money Okay, you know good opportunity get there and I'm there for three four five days and the other players like hey man You might want to get out of here why you can because uh Greece I didn't know at the time, but Especially unless you're on one of the big teams they're notorious for You know promising this money and the contracts and I worked the papers written on and they're not gonna pay you They're gonna be late this and that and they're like man. So I basically two weeks now I'm a you know Italy Greece call my agent my hey man get me out of here this and that I come home And I'm like I went from I'm getting drafted to Nothing like god or you close into the door on my whole basketball career right out of the gate So I'm home less than 48 hours. I get a call from my agent. He says okay No more this try outs this and that I got a job for you It's not gonna be you know what you were hoping for but it's a start and and you need to take it and I'm like okay Where and he said Portugal and I said Portugal I'm not going to South America And he says first of all Portugal is not in South America I had no idea. I mean You'll laugh at this. I literally go to my parents house. I'm like do we have an encyclopedia? Yes, no internet Cyclopedia what what's Portugal? So we're trying to find something about Portugal the next day I was on a plane to to Lisbon, Portugal Guarantee deal solo again solo again, but Kristen obviously was gonna come. This was a guaranteed deal I mean half half the money half the money that I was gonna be making and you know Italy and way less than Greece way less than the NBA And so I was there two weeks. This was September like the beginning September. I mean After having played a receipt a long time. I'm you know most guys report early August Mid-August you start getting late. I mean it was early September so they'd already been practicing a few weeks and here comes this this young Kids so end up playing there and then uh that's how I got my started receipts. Wow And then uh at some point you transitioned long term to Italy right like how did that? So the very next year So I had a Portugal the day before the first games. I practice with them four or five weeks We do preseason tournaments things like that and playing well the league is not near to the level of Italy or Greece But again, it's a start. I mean Uh, you know my contract was like $35,000 But I was like $35,000 is tax-free. I'm here for nine months They're paying for a house and car. I feel like man. I'm rich, you know Food and gas like I've never had this much money. That's great So uh so anyway, well uh in a breaking my foot the day before the first game I'm out ten weeks and You know a lot of times I didn't know it then when guys get hurt like that They'll they'll bring somebody else in and cut you and let you go Well, they saw me in that five weeks or so of practicing five six weeks They liked me a lot. So they did bring another American in but just temporarily in like a two-month contract And he knew that we were cool. I came back and they'll lead the league and scoring Like 26 a game or something like that the very next year that Italian team Emola The guy retired they called me said hey, not only are we we want you we're giving you a guarantee You know no more trial type of thing the contract was better than the previous year definitely better than what it was in Portugal And uh that got my start in Italy Wow, that's cool. And you got to play for some pretty awesome people while you're there didn't you? Yes, I ended up like working my way up You know Italy actually has two divisions. I have many divisions but where Americans play first division second division I'll start out second division still very high level. You only have two Americans per team played really well Uh, and end up working my way up uh, went from you know second division first division into You know, uh, you're all the way to Euro league which is you know elite elite level NBA guys forming NBA guys You know the Luca donches of the world and they you know the rheometry is Barcelona's you know Chesa, Moscow these big clubs Playing Euro league and so yeah played for Benetantra Vizzo, which is was owned by the United colors of Benetantan the Benetantan family Huge huge club played for a guy named Georgio or Monty who's pretty good Taylor Cloder decent decent uh And Milan so he owned the team in Milan and uh, so a lot of really cool experiences 10 consecutive years there and in my last two years I got called back for a team in Portugal, Benfica, which is a huge soccer club I was kind of on the back end of my career. Yeah and Decide to take that and it was a great experience I was no longer aspiring to you know play Euro league and things like we did play cup competition It was still very competitive But went and played there and and had a great finish from my career. We won You know everything in Portugal from the Portuguese cup to to the championship both year I was there in the league and then we as I said play some European competition. I got league MVP and Retired at 35. Turned down a two-year deal could have stayed and played but I felt like Kids get no it was it was time to shut it down. Yeah Of your time, you know before we kind of move to your next chapter of life like in basketball What would you feel like's one lesson there? Throughout your entire whether it's college or professional basketball career that is a lesson that you feel like would really benefit people to learn from I think just Endurance And I don't mean physical endurance. I just mean You know Oftentimes in life we don't get what we want But you gotta keep fighting you gotta persevere. I think They're just countless lessons I learned being in a different culture different languages You know having teammates from all over the world coaches with a different mindset different perspective um There's there's just so many different things to kind of take in and process. It was really really good for me but challenging You know Out of your comfort zone um, and so I just think Lesson and perseverance and endurance and continuing to You know control which you can control. I mean we say often All you can do is all you can do and all you can do is enough right Art Williams Saying That's that's really it man. I mean it's like all you can do control what you can control. There's so much you can't control Um, I can control you know what the team right did I can control these organizations breaking my foot um But I could control my effort. I could control my attitude. I could control my my outlook and And so I think just persistence perseverance and learning to Endure in the midst of that um was one big takeaway. Mm. That's cool So 35 coming back to the US Two kids born overseas Now your family of four moving back to us first just like How did that how was that transition emotionally? I mean all you've known's basketball So you were four or five you know, you're mom saying you're dribbling a basketball and you transition You know loving baseball but getting out of that into basketball and high school basketball college basketball 13 years overseas basketball It's like oh my gosh now what like how is that just emotionally for you? How is it emotionally for Kristen? How is it emotionally for you as a father leading your family? Yeah, so we actually Mussoon joby jr had already been born as well. So it was five of us I hurt my knee when I was playing in Verreza, another big club, a store club in Italy. And that was 20, so it would have been 2012 roughly. And so ended up, yeah, hurt my knee. It was prior to, I'm gonna get my math wrong here, 'cause my son was born in 2011. So it was a been 20, yeah, 2011, late 2010, 2011, I hurt my knee, so January 2011, and up coming home, that knee surgery, Kristen, we find out it's pregnant, that spring, as I'm kinda going through, all this with the team, and do I need surgery, do I not need surgery, I was doing everything to avoid surgery to keep playing, and it became apparent that that was gonna have to happen. So ended up coming home, and in Joby was born here, in Matthews, in the Charlotte area. So five is transitioning fast forward, at Portugal, the kids, Isabella, my oldest, was 10 at the time, and it was, we felt like man, time to transition. Kristen really wanted us to stay probably. She would say, and me to play, we had a good situation, international school there. The girls really enjoyed, it was a great environment, an opportunity, but physically I just felt like, man, I wanna have had injuries, but I felt pretty good, I felt physically, I could have continued, but it began to get harder and harder and harder to, you know, to warm up, to, it's just to perform at the level each and every day. I didn't recover the way I did, you know, it took me an hour to get loose, and then when I'm tight, you know, I'm done, and the recovery was really hard. So we transitioned and I thought I would coach, but minimally it was really, it was tough. I would say, I don't think it really hit me until years later, the kind of toll that it took on us as a family and me. I think what was super helpful was, you know, by God's grace, felt like I had a good perspective. I had been able to come back from the knee surgery and play three more seasons, had the knee injury into my career, and I felt like it was premature. I got, you know, the career was cut short. I think I would have had a really, really hard time with that, but the fact that I kind of went out on my own terms, went out on top, went out healthy, was helpful. I also realized that there's more to life than basketball. I wish I had a thought through that at a younger age when I was playing, but, you know, father time has underfused and has a way of reminding you, you know, this two must come to an end. And so I started to think through, man, what's next and thought I would coach, and yeah, pretty quickly, and talking to friends in the business and so forth over here, especially in college coaching, I realized, I don't want to go from this 13 years or receive traveling back and forth with my family to now, we have no idea where we're going to be. So I thought, whatever we're going to do, let's just go back home and have some stability. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And so, you know, why real estate, where that journey began, how did that begin? Where did that, like, thought really blossom? Yeah, real estate, it was really, was there even something else in between? Yeah, not necessarily anything in between. It was more, understand, I read a book that was really helpful, called What Colors My Parachute. It's still out. I think that's the exact title. They've done all these different editions of the book. And what the whole idea is, you're jumping out of one career, like you're jumping out of an airplane, and you don't even know what color your parachute is. Like you have no idea where you're going, what you're gifting is. And so I had a lot of questions around, I played basketball. Like what do I have to offer in the real world? And over time, I realized, my gosh, I've learned some of the best principles and life lessons ever through playing. And all the experiences I had. Right. But at the time, I'm like, man, I feel like I'm inadequate in some way. I don't know, basketball's on there. Yeah. So that book helped me understand, you know, people is something that I enjoyed communication. I was a communications major, but just relationally, athletes generally, translate to good salesmen. And I went, never saw myself as like a sales guy, but just a relational guy. And genuinely interested. Yeah. Getting to know people, hearing their stories, and building relationships with them. And so real estate came about because I heard some stuff about investing in real estate. And I had some friends in commercial real estate. Didn't know the difference between commercial residential. So I started networking, just connecting with anybody I know what's out there. And I started to learn that commercial real estate is really more of a corporate type of environment. And man, I was getting a lot of, well, you could start, but in some of this, like you're starting right out of college, I had, you know, I didn't make enough money where I could just retire and never work again. But I did well overseas and well enough to be in a position where I didn't have to run out and just take a job. And so I was pretty selective. Sure. So I decided to get my real estate license, just to learn more about the business while I was networking. And it was through the process of getting my North Carolina real estate license that I began and became interested in. Wow. I think the best way to learn this is just to start trying to sell houses. Yeah. I felt there was a bit of a stigma being a realtor, you know, is that, you know, for women is that just, you know, I don't know, there's, there seems to be a lot of them out there. What value is there in this, et cetera. But the more I learned about it, I know, hey, there's, there's a lot of really good realtor's out there. But unfortunately, there's a lot of bad ones out there and it's really oversaturated. And I believe I could be a difference maker. So you get your real estate license. I think it's something everyone always is curious. Always the first home you sold, well, well, it was that story. Yes. I do remember, I'm not going to say names to protect the innocent. But it took me six months. So I ended up joining a local boutique firm, you know, where I got some really good training and had some really good mentors in the space. And it took six months. I thought, well, I'm a local guy. I'm from Charlotte. I've got pretty good network of relationships, broadly. But it takes a long time to earn people's trust and I understand it, right? I mean, I was new in the space and everybody thought, when they thought about me, it was always basketball, basketball, basketball. Right. And then she and I had to recreate that narrative. I had to recreate the narrative. And it's funny now because generally people think real estate, which is cool. And a lot of people don't know my basketball story. And you know, I'm not too, you know, public and out there with it. It's a cool story and conversation. And I live overseas and it'll come up time to time. But so, yeah, I kind of cut my teeth early on and finally, kind of, I had a breakthrough. And Kristen, my wife, just unbelievable woman. Yeah, my best friend in the world, just supportive throughout the process. It was hard. It was hard for her. And she really, honestly, I mean, she would tell you the same thing. She didn't want me to do it. I think she was looking for more stability. We had had a lot of instability with the basketball. I mean, every year, you don't know where you're going. Like literally, we're in the world. Where you're going, what you've taken, anything. Any of that. No guarantees. And that was just, I think the medal told that took on her was really hard. And I think that, I mean, literally, you're starting from scratch. No guarantees. I mean, you have no consistent income. Is this going to work? And she always says to this day, she said, I'm putting on your tombstone. Just trust me. And because those are my famous words here, just trust me. And really, it's not just trust me. I know I'm definitely going to have all the answers. I get a ton to learn. But I will say, I felt confident. Not just in the ability, but that there was a need for this, that it's something I could grow and a space I could learn. And the excitement of really building something. That's what gets me excited. Even what we're doing at ClockworkReality Group. It's like we're just building something. Something bigger than me, something that we could get excited about. And I know it's hard. Anything worth doing is hard. And it wouldn't be satisfying if it came quick and easy. And I feel like, honestly, I mean, from the outside looking in, you know, the kind of the attitude people always say, Yeah, they kind of see the end result and you know, maybe the social media life or whatever Netflix Netflix whatever that oh man, it's just all the glory, but they don't see the grind I mean just all the the blood sweat and tears literally on the back end and so I think um My life has been that way like I've been very successful. I've been incredibly blessed. I am not here to say you know I had the hearts of circumstances. I mentioned my upbringing two parents who were loving But man, I busted my tail and put in work and effort and it is not come easy. I've had setbacks I feel like I've you know Even my playing career is like I still it still eats at me that I never played a minute in an NBA game It eats at me it will to the day I die and does that change who I am as a person? Absolutely not that's not you know what validates me or that's not my identity My dandy is not a basketball player my dandy's first of all who I am as a child of God and Um, and who God's made me you know as a husband and father and a man that's flawed and Has so much to learn but who who who wants to learn who wants to constantly improve and um, so That is uh Yeah, that's kind of been the story if you will and in real estate has been no different Uh, but been very grateful for the opportunities and even the small successes that I've been able to have Yeah, that's cool. And then um, Out of couple firms and then started Clockwork really group. Did you start clockwork solo? How did that idea blast some was it just because of your passion for real estate and Residential sales or yeah With there other things that led you into clockwork Yes, so uh, one of my best friends in the world Andrew Schwartz uh he and I um back and about 20 I guess 16ish 15 16 17 Started having a lot of conversations around um You know real estate as an investment and primarily long term buy and hold residential real estate as a good place to you know Um to invest money um and So we started kind of combining funds and expertise and um, you know purchasing single-family houses as rentals and uh and through that process we were kind of building out systems And processes of managing those properties, you know acquiring those properties and uh We were trying to make things run like clockwork, right be very efficient And so we had this idea and and Andrew to his credit. I mean um, he was the one to probably initiate it Hey, what if we start a property management company and um and so clockwork properties was born well You know, I was gonna have to be the license holder. I'd been in real estate long enough to do that They're still felt in adequate and yeah, not as experienced probably as I should have been Uh, and so I was like well if I'm gonna kind of have my neck on the line and my license on the line Uh in a property management company, I might as well start a brokerage. Yeah, and the idea was just my brother Andy was Was with me at a as a previous firm and um, you know had a assistant at the time was helping me but it was just kind of a You know built around me if you will and and Andy was kind of doing this thing and um At that point we decided to start clockwork realty group and uh no Real vision for that it was more the property management was the driver and we felt like it helped balance out You know real estate brokerage as as you know first hand is just this roller coaster. You don't know where your next opportunity is coming from Um, and it takes a while to build you know consistency Um, and so the property management it was a lot slower on the front end of far a lot less profitable But on the long haul could be something that's consistent You know, you've got kind of a residual component Uh on a monthly basis as you're getting rental income and building that portfolio And so that's what we did and uh, we we started the clockwork companies and eventually we'll have my wife Kristen on We started clockwork designs and that's her her deal 100% today Um, but we felt like we were trying to create something that would be a one-stop shop, you know buyer sellers investors um Where we were a trustworthy player in the space um and uh and people could call us and and have all their residential real states needs met Yeah, that's awesome Um Man uh in any lessons so far in real estate I know it's been Nine years now coming up on nine years so any any lessons to To kind of share there of things you've learned I think a pattern that I picked up on in your whole life story that To me is really incredible, but it makes sense as to why you're successful is you know I think art Williams coined it, but Nike would say they coined just do it and uh uh But you did you just did it right like you hopped in you you didn't know you just got your license You you know you studied to take the exam to get into real estate and you didn't really know but you just did it right you You hopped in to start clockwork real degree to start clockwork property management, right? It's like I'm just gonna do it and then I'm gonna figure it out. Yeah, you know I think that's a really awesome lesson that I've been able to learn from your story today Anything More from your perspective with regards to real estate. Yeah. I think that's I think that's accurate You know um, I wouldn't say you know, I'd just wake up without a plan right? I'm very calculated in many respects um and and yet to your point um You've got to get get out there and do it. There's so much analysis paralysis out there and you know I mean think about all the incredible ideas people have that just or ideas right and never come to fruition because um They don't try to go and make them happen and um a good friend of mine Jason Tuttle who uh will also have on the podcast uh Lives here locally. He's a commercial real estate guy He says I love this. He says you just got to go play in traffic. Yeah And uh if you play in traffic eventually you're gonna get hit yeah and you know It's the idea of man You've got to put yourself around the right people in the right space and just gotta go do something eventually You're gonna get hit right eventually. It's gonna go right. You're gonna learn and and you know I feel like that's often what I've done and um You know, I don't know I the human side of me. I want to know like how is this thing in the end? Sure You have a vision for the future and a desire to be successful in goals that that we have collectively individually But then the day uh Yeah, each day I'm like all right. I don't know where that conversation. I just had is gonna lead or this You know person I just met Um, I'm not looking at it, you know from a just some ulterior motive that uh, I want to use this person But I'm just eager to okay, right Let's build your relationships have great people around this yeah, and uh and kind of see what happens But you got it you got to go do it. Yeah, and you're gonna learn you're gonna make mistakes and that's what that's what I've kind of tried to do in real state Yeah, that's cool. I don't know if I have ever shared this with you But I need to share it with Jason total my sister when she was 18 got diagnosed with MS and uh Out of that um just A go getter and get after but she wrote a book go play in traffic wow about that. That's incredible I did not know yeah amazon Yeah, so I give tuddled the credit, but it's clearly come from somewhere else That's cool awesome, you know Maybe uh give us you know one book that you would say that has really really impacted your life that And has really shaped who you've become um as as maybe a father maybe as a business owner as a leader in the community Anywhere you want to take that what what would you say what's one book that comes to mind Yeah, man, I mean um not to give a cliché answer, but I mean the Bible first and foremost because it's changed my life my perspective on life my understanding of You know why I'm here and and and just that you know tomorrow is not promised and um don't take anything for granted. Yeah I do believe the the truth You know that that are taught there um and and I Try to live by those and it gives me hope you know that yes You know we're all gonna die one day. I know that's morbid. That's a tough reality to often we try to avoid But it's just the reality 100% death rate. Yeah, and um I do want my life to to have meaning I think about two words and he knows I think about my future and as you know, I get older Um, it's just influence an impact. You know, I want to have influence. I want to have impact. I I want to Influence others um, you know, and I want to impact the world in a positive manner and not just um, you know Not just cliche way or whatever and that doesn't have to be something you visibly see. Yeah um You know a billionaire success, but behind the scenes um stuff That's gonna last beyond this life. Just you know, encouraging someone who's down or you know, she sharing something or just even listening, not saying anything and trying to be there for people because I know my moment will come and I'm going to need the same type of encouragement, need people around me and so forth trying to be a better husband and father, trying to be present each and every day. So I would say the Bible, but I have to also say, I'm going to give you two more. Okay. Yeah. So there's a book Desiring Guide by former pastor John Piper that was single-handedly transformed my life as well. And he basically, you know, says that God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in him. And the whole premise is, and it comes straight out of the Bible, but he really walks you through and help me see that, you know, that joy and obedience to God are not two separate things that the Christian life is not one of just rule following or legalism or I've got to do this, right? That's the old covenant. That's not why Christ Jesus came to suffer, live and die for those who would trust him. It's actually, you know, God is most glorified in me when I'm most satisfied in him. When I enjoy him above anything else, like shouldn't we enjoy the Creator above the creation if he created all things, all things. You know, in the beginning there was God, the very beginning of the Bible says, right? Then wouldn't he be more desirable, more enjoyable, more life-giving than the things he's created? So that was just mind-blowing for me because it kind of wedded to for me like, yes, that not only makes intellectual sense, but practically that's life-changing. God, so how can I out of a desire to know you more because of what you've done, not in an attempt to in some way repay God because I could never do that, but to find joy in who he is and knowing that that's something that will outlive my life or the things that I do in this life? And then the final one is Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki. So I go from really deep the Bible to the design guide to a pretty practical book that most people would in the real estate space or financial space a lot would say is life changes to them, assets, liabilities, you know, you want your money to work for you, not work for your money per se and it's just this, that really helped me understand the power real estate specifically. And that's translating even what we do the day to day, not only helping people buy or sell homes and invest in real estate, but really educating just say, hey, what if you thought about this different? Don't look at this as just like, hey, I'm going to get the biggest nicest home I can afford, but what if you viewed this as an opportunity to say, hey, you know, we all need to place the lay our head. I don't need the biggest nicest, craziest home. So what if this was a start to something that meant this first house we came to rental home and help provide an opportunity for somebody else, but yet somebody else is paying for that house, right? And I'm earning income through that property. And so that book really was transformational for me as well. Yeah. That's cool. We always think it's funny sometimes when clients ask us to sell their home and sometimes we're like, well, can you keep it? That's right. You'd be better off running it. Yeah. So that's not necessarily. Well, one question we ask everyone to end the podcast. If you can go back to the age of 25 and tell yourself one thing, what would you tell yourself, you know, our hope in this is that it would be one lesson that would help lead others to long term success. I would just say it's more blessed to give them to receive. And that's straight out of the Bible. Meaning there's more joy in serving. We, you know, Bible says that Jesus came not to be served, but to serve and to give His life as a ransom for many. You know, the irony is we often think the more I get, the happier I'm going to be, you know, the more success I obtain, goes out, reach, the reality is serving others, offers us far greater joy. Yeah. Helping others obtain those goals, helping others obtain those goals, seeing them be successful. There's truly, I mean, think about something that symbols a Christmas gift. If you stop and really process, do you get more joy when you receive a nice gift for somebody or when you give somebody a gift and to see their face to expression, their joy, their excitement? It's, there's, you know, there's no comparison to my mind. And so I think just remembering that consistently in my life when it's easy to think about me, easy to, you know, think about my goals. And that's exactly what's an athlete. Everything's about you. Exactly. You know, your whole life's about you. In some ways, you have to be selfish with your time and talents to continue to grow those for what you want. Absolutely. And just a reminder that is, yeah, that life is not about me. It's far bigger than me and how can I serve and spend my life, you know, making other people's life better? And so that's what I go back and tell myself in the midst of everything else. The accolades will go, you know, I'm a husband on the basketball court that, that in some people's minds, you know, never was right? That's just quickly fading and yet the way I make others feel. It was going to last far beyond me. Yeah. You know, to wrap up, it reminds me of one of our close friends who plays on the PJ Tour Web Simpson. I'll never forget when he shared with me. He's 2012. When's the US open? One of the four majors, our country's biggest golf tournament for the US. And he's literally receiving the trophy on the green at Olympic and he looks over and there's a few guys sitting there. They had all won the US Open before. He couldn't name any of them. And he, in that moment, he says he'd just specifically, like was reminded of God's grace and just like, "Well, that will be you. You're not that important. This is a fun win. It's awesome to see the gifts and the talents that the Lord has given him to use his platform to serve others and love others. But don't lose sight of this cool as this is and it's cool, like not taking away like it's amazing. You want a major. But it's also this too shall come to pass. And so that's always been a helpful reminder for me in these moments of awesome wins as well. That life is so much bigger than us." Hey, Manuel said. Yeah. "Great for the do with you, bro." Likewise, bro. Thanks for the time. Yeah, no doubt. Thanks again for listening. Please remember to subscribe. We can't make this happen without you guys. We're incredibly appreciative of all the support. Excited for the guests we've got to come.