Jo Sunday Loves Old People

(bell rings) - Wave. - So you became cool quickly. - No, I was still not cool, but I was not going to spend even an hour doing something I didn't want to do. - That's cool. - And I would say that has stuck. - That is cool. (all laughing) (upbeat music) - You have any kind of kinks? - Yeah. - Will you say? - No, they're sea kinks. (all laughing) - They're between me and my lovers. - I respect that. - But I don't, I would tell you for sure. - Mine are totally sick and I also shouldn't say. - Yeah. - Definitely in terms of what I'm searching on the computer. - Yeah. - There are things I'm searching and thinking about that I've never told a soul. - How often are you watching P? - Watching P? It comes and goes and waves. - Yeah. - But even when I am watching P, I'm not really watching. I'm just using it for INSPO and I'm imagining the rest. - Yeah. - I'm turning it on. It's like the pizza girl gets to the door. I'm like thank you. - Got it. - I have the characters, thank you. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I have the characters in the setting. I'll be working on the plot. Thank you. - But these days I'm feeling a bit more creatively alive and so I don't really need to turn on the-- I can just kind of, got it. - I told people this one. - They never do it right. Okay, go ahead. - I told people this one's in college. - That's it. - Then I really can do everything I need with just my imagination. - That's so good. - And I was made fun of. - They're like, "What do you mean?" And I was like, "I just imagined something awesome." (laughing) - And then I get to work. - I imagined something awesome. - I do, I find it hard. Like even if I have a crush on someone or I think someone's hot, for some reason that's not helpful. This is why I worry that I'm like asexual or something. Like I don't think you're asexual. - I don't think you're asexual. (laughing) - Just based on what you told me, I mean. - I don't even know where the camera is. To my new lover, you hear that? - Your new lover that you met last night. - Yeah. - Okay, huge. Did something happen or this is just a vibe that you're getting? - I just happened love. I did, like, simple as that. - Will you walk me through it? I wouldn't hear about it. I know, that's what I want. (screaming) - Well, usually I don't fuck fans, do you fuck fans? - For sure. - Happy to. It's my honor and privilege. Fucking a fan is my honor and privilege. It's one of the most special parts of my work. - Whoa. - It means more to me than writing. - What? (laughing) - Getting a laugh means nothing to me compared to making a fan come. (laughing) I love to make a fan see. - Well, usually, usually I can't. Usually there's something about it. That's like, maybe it's like, I don't respect them enough. - Why not? - They should be a fan. - That's bad, that's not the bad. - Well, thank you for saying that. And I feel kind of the same way. - I know you do, yeah. - Or at least, like, when someone's in my fan, I'm like, this guy, kind of knows what's going on, yeah. - It's actually tough. Like, someone really hurt my feelings lately. I was trying to date someone completely elderly. - Yeah. - And all my friends the whole time were like, this person wears a fedora gel. Like, you should not be lighting them or your feelings like this. And I'm like, before, during and after, I stand by it, the fedora guy was like, totally hot. - Was that the most recent time you got your feelings hurt romantically? - Uh, yes, but also, like, I wake up every day and I get my feelings hurt romantically. - Yeah. - What do you change your mind about most recently? Do you think? - Oh, fuck, fuck, fuck. - Can you think of it? - Wow. - 'Cause it's kind of an annoying question, but if you can think of one. - We love. - So, an annoying question, an annoying answer. (laughing) - So, is this the part where we kiss? (laughing) - Hey, mister. Hey, mister sends me. - Oh my gosh. I have something real that I've changed my mind about recently, and it's kind of boring, but. - I doubt it. - I've changed my mind about, like, being a self-made man. - It's more. - I think I really, um, like, for some reason, Bo Burnham is coming to my mind. I have this idea that Bo Burnham, like, came out of the womb, a prolific comedic genius, and I think I kind of fetishized the person who, yeah, like, didn't need any training, didn't need any help, and could just do it like that. (laughing) And for some reason, I have this feeling that if I, like, like, take a class in something, or, like, have someone help me write something, or, yeah, just, like, having, I guess, institutional support to build the skills that I want to have that it, like, counts less? Or, that's the idea that I had, and suddenly, like, I woke up this year, and I was like, that was made up. Like, I think the coolest thing is to study. - There's no such thing as a singular effortless genius, and there's only, like, really negative outcomes in pursuing trying to be one. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Probably good that I let go of it. - I get it though, 'cause we all pursue it at one point, and we all consider it, 'cause you see, like, oh my God, this person, like, they wrote this beautiful thing and performed in it, and set, designed it, or whatever, like, they did whatever, whatever, whatever, and it's like, that's fine, that's fine. - Well, they just knew how to do that. - And they didn't. - Yeah. - And they didn't end, by the way, a lot of times, even if those projects turn out great, it probably would have greatly improved if not-- - You're so right. - If not only the project, definitely the experience for that person of just letting people in. - Yeah. - You know? - I also realized a lot of training, especially in creative work. A lot of people have training, like, early on in their life that's kind of obscured. Like, I'm thinking about, like, something I have a different my shoulder about is, I never really went to summer camp. I went to, like, this weird government camp. That makes us on worse than the worst. - Yeah, I'll be asking about that. (laughing) Don't know what that means. Really, I should have find out. - Okay, putting a pin in the government camp. - Yeah, government camp, you're here. - Coming back to the government camp. But, like, they're all sorts of, like, arts camps and theater camps and, like, little programs that people do when they're young, that I, at least, wasn't thinking of as, as they're, like, official training. But, I think it is real and it does matter. Or, even just, like, who is, like, encouraged to consume and make art as a kid? Like, who has creative parents, who has reactivity in our life in our camp? I don't know. - I don't know. - 100%. That's a huge-- I don't think people realize how, I didn't even consider that I could be a creative person or an artist until I was, in my 20s. It was just never-- - Same. - I grew up around artists. I didn't know-- - Same. Wait, I didn't know this about you, though. I'm surprised. - Oh, yeah, I grew up in, like, working class, small town, Missouri. Everyone was just, like, broke and working. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Which is, I'm so grateful for it, massively informs my perspective, and I think it was a training of its own. But, like, yeah, people who were told from, like, a very young age that they could perform. - Yes. - You have no idea how valuable that is. - It's huge. - Yeah. That is really helpful in coming from money. I mean, but that's the often talked about thing. I just do think about the lot of, like, you guys really, as much as some of these people think, they know how much that helps them. I'm like, you really have no fucking clue. How hard it is to take any of these risks when-- - Completely. - Nobody you know can help you if you fail. - Completely. - Yeah. - Government camp. - I'm looking at a success story. - Government camp, I think Mr. Donoff Kennedy went there. So, there was, I think an A24 movie, "Boy State." Oh, I know "Boy State." - I went to Girl State. - I went to "Boy State." - You did? - For 12 hours. - You left. - I hated it. - I won. - I won. - You won. - You're looking at-- - Well, I believe this. - You're looking at Speaker of the House. - Yeah. - And what's it called? Like, would you call Kamala Harris the runner-up to the presidency? 'Cause that's what I was at girl. Like, basically, I won my primary, but then my party lost for governor. - You lost an election. - 'Cause I lost. (laughing) - It's like I cannot say. - This is what I'm talking about. This is a happy person in front of me. A happy person doesn't say they lost the election. They say they were runner-up. They got a second place in the election where you can only get first place. - You caught me on a good day. (laughing) - You caught me on a good day. - Like, no, I wouldn't call Kamala the runner-up. - Personally, but I love that mindset. - The runner-up. (laughing) - Oh my God. - Did you enjoy Girl State? - Well. - Or were you just good at it? - You think I'm gonna spend a weekend with a thousand girls and not a job myself. - Say that. - Say that. - Are you kissing? - No. - Nothing like that. - I didn't know. - I didn't know. I just checked in on this stuff. - Wait, you're at Girl State, you mean? Or in my life? - I mean, at Girl State. - At Girl State. - Just 'cause you said a thousand girls and you were so happy. I thought maybe they were just kissing. - There were other, no, like the homoerotic girls situation. There were different homoerotic girls situations of my youth. Girl, no, Girl State, and it's so funny because every freaking thing was made up. Like, it had no connection. Like, we didn't like, we didn't do like a volunteering day like it was entirely fiction, but we took it so seriously that you saying, I'm like, I was at work. - Yeah, why would I kiss at work? - I was campaigning. Like, what are you talking about? - We were creating laws about how to walk on the sidewalk. - Yeah. - Yeah, I'm not kissing. I'm in Congress. - Well, I think one of our, and there were, like, there were these weird conservative girls who-- - They're always are. - They wanted to like, like further criminalized prostitution? - Of course. - And that's what we discussed for a week, just for fun. - Yeah. - But what was it? Did I like Rostae? I don't know. - Yeah. - Okay. - No, I don't remember what the question was. - If it was if you liked Rostae. - If you had fun, if you enjoyed it. - Oh, yes, and I also, like, I probably, I, you know what? I was a little bit in my, like, Olivia Pope bag. Like I, what, 'cause when you're campaigning, I was using facts, but I was molding facts about my life to make my constituents feel a certain way. - Of course. - And I was getting, like, totally pie off of that feeling. - Yeah. - I would refer to, I relate to this more than you know, because I would refer to the years, like, 14 through 19 of my life as the campaign. I was on the campaign trail that whole time. - Oh, my God. Wait, but I think I know this about you. - Oh, I was campaigning. - Because you were. - And I was never the runner up. I won. (laughing) I won, but I didn't win at Boise State. I'm really, really-- - Wait, you literally, you packed your bags and you went home. - Which is why I'm so impressed with you that you stayed and, like, rocked it out, because I got there, I got there. I went to one, like, assembly of it. And I immediately called my mom and was like, "Tell them Grandma got in the car crash. "I need to come home." - What? What was so scary about it? - It wasn't scary. I hated it. I hated the guys. I hated the leaders. - Wow. - They had, like, an attorney general from the state that was, like, a Republican come and speak to us on opening ceremony. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - And I was, like, fuck this noise. I'm fucking out of here. I pieced out of it. And so my counselor comes and he goes, "Hi, can we talk to you for a moment?" I go, "Yeah, he goes, so your mom called "and told us that your grandma had an accident." (laughing) And this is exact tone. He's like, "Oh, my God, I'll love to your mom." I'm like, "Why didn't she sell it?" - Yeah, she didn't. She did not. And I driven myself there because I was, you know, 16, 17, had a little driver's license. And my dad worked at the college, actually where they hosted it. And I was like, "Yeah, I gotta go. "Sorry, it's sulfur grandma," you know? And he was like, "Yeah, don't you think your grandma "would want you to, sounds like she's gonna be fine, "don't you think she'd want you to like stay "in honor your commitment?" And I was like, "No." - Come back to what? - Come back to what? I mean, these people are insane. - It is insane. - Boy State is one of the most psychopathic. They recently hit me up through a mutual friend and was like, "Would Caleb come and speak at Boy State?" - Oh my God. - But maybe do. Maybe do is so you can twist their minds in the right way. - I mean, horrible. - And I went, I left, I packed my stuff, I got in my car. - The one that'll get guys, part of it. - I was the one little gay guy. - Yeah, but there's gonna be another one. - I needed to go back. - No, I don't want him to find me in another way. I talk every week for an hour. Find me on so true, brother. - Fair, fair, fair, fair, fair. - I went and had to do my dad. - Come to the socials. - I went and had to do my dad 'cause he lived in that town. And he, when we were at lunch, he goes, "So you, you have Boy State already, huh?" I go, "Yeah, he goes, I can't believe "you were doing that dork shit." - Oh. - He was like, "When you told me you were gonna do it, "I was like, "He's so much cooler than that." - Aww. - And I was like, "Gang." - That's cool. - Yeah. - That's cool. - That is cool. (all laughing) - I would say that's hell. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is really cool. That's something I'm learning. No, they're totally incriminating photos of me, like kissing the American flag and like giving a campaign speech in like ASL, like it's like totally like sitting there? Well, no, that's the issue. - Oh. - So you were doing fake sign language in your campaign speech? - No, it was just like I studied that speech in sign language. - Oh. That's actually really cool. - Do you see what I'm saying? I was in my bag. - I think that's, I think that's very accessible and cool of you actually. - Thanks. - Yeah. - I watched, I switched up birth on freeform, formerly known as ABC Family. - Yeah, yeah, shout out to freeform. God love them. - If they wanna put me in a show, I'll be in the show. Hey. - What else is going on with you? Do you think you're an intimidating person? Do you think people are intimidated by you? - Caleb. - Yeah. - Are you saying that because I'm black? - No. - Okay. - No, no, no. - I'm sorry, I said that. - Yeah, my heart wasn't in the heart, wasn't it? (all laughing) - I was not willing to have the conversation. - I wasn't in it. I didn't, that was the accusation, wasn't real. But why do you ask me that? Do you think I'm intimidating? - No, I don't. But I think I could see if somebody, you said something, you turned it, first of all, you're very cool. I think you're very cool and very smart and very funny. - Thank you so much. - I think very highly, you know that. - Thank you, thank you. - And I really think highly of you and I believe in you and I think you're fantastic. So that, but that intimidates people. I think coolness especially intimidates people. - Wow. - And I think you're very cool. And there was something you said a couple of minutes ago where we were in conversation and you were like, you're like, what was the question, I forgot it. And you said it in a way that I was like, that doesn't bother me, but I know people that that would unravel for months. - Why? - Just because you were like so confident and like, I don't know, there was just something about the way you turned that phrase and I was like, I could, I know people who would get really undone by that. - I like read myself so differently than other people read me. - Yeah. - I think I have an underdog complex where even in that moment, I was like, oh, fuck, I'm being such a loser. Like I came all the way to be on Caleb's podcast. He asked me a simple question. I can't even freaking remember. Like this is so embarrassing. I wasn't thinking of that as like my cool swab. Like what the hell did you ask me? I didn't even listen. - And I didn't think you were. That's the thing I'm saying. But do you ever, do you ever get feedback that people think you're intimidating? - It's interesting because I think kind of, yes, I think throughout my life, yes, it's difficult because while it's a little bit like the thing where I always have this race card that I can pop out of my back pocket and it's kind of like when I have a fight with my friend group, I can't quite tell like are these people racist or am I uniquely just being a total fucking bitch? (laughing) - We'll never know. We'll never get to the bottom of it. So I'm thinking like really an elementary school that was feedback that I would get that I was like intimidating or like scaring people. But it's tough because yeah, how much of that is my personality and how much of that is people kind of slotting me into a narrative that they're already ready to put me into. But I mean, it sounds like what you're saying is it's like 99% personality and vibe. - Well, no, I'm asking because I don't feel, I don't feel that I am cool in a technical definition of the word. But I get feedback a lot that I'm intimidating and I find it very confusing because I think I'm warm and inviting. - We might relate because yeah, you're someone who, yeah, like if I write out the facts on paper, if I were to describe you super warm and super inviting, well, except, uh-oh, are we gonna go here when the first couple of times we met, I was like, so that guy once we'd done. - Really? - Or not even once we'd be dead because first you'd have to, first you'd have to care. (laughing) - Oh, I liked you so much when I met you. - Really? - I thought you were so great. - Wow. - Yeah. - In Chicago? - Mm-hmm. - Wow. - I thought you were great. - Oh, man, see, I'm sorry. I read you with such malice. It's not nice. - That's so funny. No, but people do. - But why would you care? Like, I was just leave his friend. - I thought you were cool. I was like, she's the youngest week girl. - Interesting. - Yeah. - So then maybe we have the same syndrome where I'm sure you were like totally friendly to me, but yeah, I was just like, oh my gosh. Like leave his friend like, he's older, he's so cool. - Well, and Phil, he's got me, he's real. - Well, also leave loving you was more than enough for me to love you. I'm like, if leave loves you, I love you. - Until you get me a reason not to. - Not a gift from leave. - You know, but I think, yeah, the reason I ask is because I find you to be so, I find you to be very warm and inviting and fun and not hard to talk to at all. But then I was thinking, oh, I kind of think that of myself too, and I get this feedback a lot. So I wondered. - Can the listeners, what, on the Patreon, on the sub-stack, can you please weigh in about if I'm intimidating? - It's sub-stack commenters. - Will they feel safe to say? - Even though Joe has explicitly said, it might be racism. Go ahead and let us know if you would be intimidated by Joe. (laughing) - We can strike that from the record like seriously. What's it called politically when you like, you got to pass? Is that amnesty? - Oh, for this instance, you're going to give them a pass on where you got to fits. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - No, but I know what you mean. I've told a lot of people this about their-- - I'm giving up pardons. - Pardons, pardon. - Pardon, pardon, pardon, run her up, I'm giving you a pardon. - I've told a lot of people this about, a lot of white comics, specifically this about their intimidation, their feeling of intimidation from Z-Way. That I'm like, I really feel that you are intimidated by Z-Way. Yes, the format of her show is inherently confrontational. And so you might, in the biggest way, you might sort of problem with confrontation and being wrong and being so safe. scared of being wrong. But I think in a more specific and nuanced way, you specifically fear that you are not allowed to disagree with a black woman. And that specifically feels like a type of like paternalistic misogyny war that's like, it's a different kind of like pedestal-placing racism and misogyny. So I know, I know what you mean. I was about to say, I know exactly what you mean. I probably can't know exactly. But I know what you mean by is it just who I am or am I doing something? - Yeah, I mean, to be honest, I feel like this is totally cathartic to talk about. This is something that I'm like so sensitive about. - Like in general or lately? - Well, kind of lately. - Like a season, it's a season that's we're firing up right now. - Like anytime I have conflict with a friend or with someone I care about, I'm really, and I think I might be making it up a bit, probably. But I'm really afraid that people would be afraid to come to me. And it's tough because I'm also like I'm quite sensitive and I'm quite reactive. And so I think those things don't mix well. If someone like is sensitive and reactive and is intimidating, I'm like, that equals a user. Like, oh, I don't want to be that. - Yeah, that's interesting, I don't know. The intimidating thing is so, yeah, the intimidating thing is so interesting to me. And I think it's mostly because I don't find, am I trying to think of someone I find intimidating? - I don't really feel that. That's not something that I feel. A chance, is there someone I find intimidating? - We're so similar, Caleb. I'm not, I'm awesome. (laughing) - But who do you find intimidating? - Well, the thing is, like, 'cause I think, like, I guess I'm thinking about celebrity culture. - Yeah. - Like, ah, like, this is when I get into, like, this is when I feel like a 2000s reality TV character where I'm like, I'm not intimidated by anyone. Which of these bitches would intimidate me? (laughing) - Yeah. - Like, who is there to scare me? But I think other people don't feel that way. - Yeah, I think for me, it's just like, I don't know, everybody, I don't know, everybody has, like, insecurities and fears and is bringing their own shit to every situation in a way that I'm like. - Yeah, I'm intimidated by, like, my legit friends, I think. - Yeah. - I'm not intimidated by, but, like, I'm definitely not intimidated by stream. I don't think I'm intimidated. I don't know what I'm saying. - I think the cool, I know what you mean. I think the closest I get to being intimidated is when I'm around people who do, like, objectively good, selfless work for, like, a living. Like, when I'm around, like, tenant organizers or, like, nurses or, like, somebody who, like, if you're intimidated, like, they're gonna hit you or something? - Not like that, no. Not like these, I don't know if you've been around union organizers, but I'm not worried about any of these leftists hitting me. I can tell you that. If the right wing has anything going for them, it's that none of these people can pack a punch. - Got some guns on them. - Yeah. - No, I just, I feel, I feel-- - And we'll show, like, by the way. - I feel silly. Sometimes that I'm like, oh, my little clown show that I do-- - Oh, yeah, for sure, for sure. Is that intimidation? I don't know. - I don't know. - No, I'm lost, like, I don't know what. - The definition of intimidation. Like, I feel like there's, there-- - But to me, when you say intimidated, I think it, like, yeah, it's something about a fear that that person could, like, even if emotionally, like, hurt me. - Yeah, that would've, like, had to be your tape. - Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, that maybe they would, like, really run a poem, that ends you. - Or, like, I don't know that they would, like, do, I think intimidation, to me, the way that I conceptualize it in my brain is, like, oh, if I give that person a chance, or if I mess up around them, they will, maybe not even they will, they have the ability to undo me. They have the ability to spin me out, make me think differently of myself, ruin my day. - I'm seeing a face, totally. - Yeah. - Yeah, I won't say. - Yeah, of course, of course. - Of course, no, we would never give them that power. - In public, you can tell me later. - Yeah. (laughing) - I also want to say to the listeners of the show, we say you can tell me later on this show, like three times an episode, and I would say, we never end up, I never end up actually fault, 'cause I forget and we never, so actually don't feel bad. - We should publish it as a book, like an index of like all the you can tell me later. 'Cause at that point, it's like, the person's not gonna go find the book and buy the book and read it. - Yeah. I have told Chance that if I were to die before him, if I were to die ever, that he is allowed to release like everything we've ever cut from this show. - Wow. - Of me, of my talking. - Wow. - 'Cause we cut things, you know sometimes, and I'm like, "Oh, that would not be sensitive," or I shouldn't have said that, or whatever. Or like, since we've recorded that, something has happened in the world that makes that something I actually don't want to say, I've given Chance permission when I die to. - Caleb. - If he outlives me, yeah. - How do you wish to be remembered into? - You delivering this to me? Laying on that chair like that? - Suddenly I've gotten so comfortable. - I love that you're comfy in here. It means the world to me. - Before I was right. Okay, let me know. - I do wonder if you'll be in frame on your camera at all, and it's not something I'm worried about. - Well. - If it's just your feet, it's really funny actually. Like a good portion of the podcast is just your feet with a shelf in the background. - I'll get up and, I mean, maybe it's like, I need to play hard to get with Hollywood, like. - Yeah, ooh, I'm just like, maybe you could cast me, but you have to start from the feet. - Maybe they want to see the bond. Maybe they want to see the outfit. I was worried that my outfit wouldn't show. (laughing) - When you have really cute shoes on today, but they're not on your feet at the moment. - Oh my gosh, you're so right guys. - Put 'em up, pause up. - These are vintage. I love them because they're like a married Jane, but there's like something serious happening with the soul, great shoe, that's all, that's what I have to say. - How do you want to be remembered? - Hmm. Ah, like not, not, not interesting. Just the classic, like, really wanna make a splash. - Yeah. - Yeah. - How so, in death or like, what does that mean? - Like, I really want, I've, oh God, it's so, I really want it to be like, I need there to be something, like some genre or some art form that is like, paradigmatically changed. - Yeah. - Because, oh my God, my delusions of grandeur. But really, like, stand up was never the same because of Joe Sunday. - Yeah. - Film was never the same because of Joe Sunday. - I like that. - Crazy for someone to say that, who was a five to six minute set. (laughing) - Well, it's audacity, and it's needed, by the way. It's audacity and it's needed. (laughing) - But that's my plan. (upbeat music) - This podcast, my podcast, my child and the love of my life, the podcast, so true, is brought to you by, you guessed it, Squarespace. Squarespace is the only website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting out or scaling your business, Squarespace gives you everything. You need to claim your domain, showcase your offerings with professional website, grow your brand, and get paid all in one place. We all could use a good website in this day and age. I tell you what, and Squarespace has so many awesome features to get yours up and running, features to get you up and running. 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Or put them out on the kitchen table next time you're hosting friends and watch the feeding frenzy begin Be sure to save a bag for yourself, though y'all you can't pour for them empty cup So keep it back for yourself trust me they go fast So next time you're at the grocery store be on the lookout for those blue bags with fruit found in the freezer aisle Thank you true for sponsoring this episode. We love you I like that But you didn't answer how do you wish to be remembered because maybe it was like totally heavy and like Crazy me to ask you that. No, not totally heavy. I like that. This is I like any question on this show It's what we do on here. We go back and forth How do I want to be remembered? I actually was thinking about this recently. I was like free writing and this kind of well It came up because Right wing conservative guys are really obsessed with the idea of legacy That they'll be like they'll be like you're leaving behind no children and no wife you'll have no legacy And I find it so funny because I'm like you guys when you die your children will actually They will come to know your true legacy Which is that you were hateful and you joyfully participated in the destruction of other people's families They will hate you in your death get them and they'll spend the money Which might end up being the only positive contribution you make to anyone's lives They'll spend it on things you would have hated and I find great great joy in that But my leg like what I want to be remembered for Um, I would just like I really would just like people to say he he tried hard and he had a good time That's like it. I just really yeah, I don't that's really all. Oh my gosh. You really are a good person Yeah, I wouldn't be mad if yours happened for me like I have to be Beethoven or He tried hard and he had a good time. That is so nice. Well obviously it's gonna be that. I want that I'm not mad if things are massively shifted. I don't I don't not suspect that it'll be more than that But I'm like that. I would be happy with that if they were like you really tried hard to be a good person to make good things He tried hard across the board to be a good friend to be present And he had a good time like he really had fun. I think that would be enough for me. That's cool. Yeah I so it doesn't resonate with me the idea of having Legacy through your children. I'm like those people have nothing to do with me. Yeah Yeah, those people aren't really my business literally literally yeah I want children so I but I don't I don't want my children to be my legacy Yeah, I feel the same way. I was pretty iffy about children until pretty much last week When I went to my friend Toshie's house Toshie has two Beautiful lesbian moms who have a beautiful home full of happy children And that seems like such a fantasy to just have like a happy life with a bunch of people around But still like what those people do is none of my I is none of my business. I don't get it. Yeah well Yeah What are you okay? So you've made a couple jokes about getting cast You've mentioned that you want your legacy to be the like Industries are shifted entirely So desperate and everywhere. No, you don't I but I'm genuinely curious what you want like what it what it what would you like out of Like why are you doing all this what do you want do you want to be do you want to be acting more do you want to Do you like what is what is the idea? I do I want to be doing everything more. I do want to be acting more yeah writing more um I think Gosh, and this is so annoying too, but I think I feel like I have stuff to say and Probably like growing up or probably for most of my life I didn't think that um Anyone would care about what I had to say or that I would get the chance to say it and now that I feel now that I just know what's a possibility I'm like so desperate about it, but also I think it's like I I Is not even that I know like what my message is that I want to get out into the world, but I do feel really hungry to Dig in like find out My ideas. Yeah, I want that I want to put on the airwaves. Yeah Send out onto the airwaves that I want to send out frequencies on the airwaves Like that And I want to be dressed by me. Umu. That's huge. Thank you. They do the little tiny skirts I don't know a ton about fashion, but I know that you know you really do I don't know a ton about fashion, but I know that. Oh yeah, little tiny skirts I like that. Why thank you. I have a question for you It's a big question of the show What's so true to you? Oh, oh, okay wait Here we go. Let's dig in. Here we go I think The Gen Z millennial beef is one side of between who and who? I think that millennials have a chip on their shoulder about Gen Z I think that millennials Feel that Gen Z has a disdain for them. That's not rooted in reality. Yeah, okay. I feel like Gen Millennials have this feeling that Gen Z were like it's and it's all because the tiktokers got on to the Business about the skinny jeans who cares if you guys wear skinny jeans But I think that millennials feel like Gen Z people look at them and we're like ew You're old and you're ugly and you and you pause Loser you can't hang out with us, but I feel like Gen Z We don't really have a strong Cultural identity as a generation like what is Gen Z? I feel like it's like totally question mark other than like pressing on phone I think all we have is our nostalgia and references and We're like why do k is so cool 90s are so cool 80s 70s And so I think when we see anyone older than us, we're like oh my gosh. You're like you're vintage like you're why do you Throwback vibes you like vintage to me Literally like you like oh like you like like my Pinterest some of the old people who listen to the show are not gonna like No, no you guys. I'm trying to feel to you. I'm trying to become your friend I think you're cool. And by the way, I want to like if you see k you like uh Well, this is part of it is that I'm is there a word for people who are attracted to old people what's being? Thank you. Yeah, let's be honest. I'm not um Yeah, like we we we we look at you with um Even on reverence, but with more positive affect than you think where is this idea of coming from that Millennials just really like it's like sure you're jealous because we're like tie like we're we're young and we're cute But we're okay, we're tiny of brain and we're tiny of age. Yeah I think millennials are cool. Yeah I think you're right though. It's like because I want to date someone older. Yeah, yeah, I'm like yesterday. I think millennials But I do yeah, I think you're right. I think that both sides are correct I think like older people are always gonna be a little confused by an annoyed by younger people They're mostly correct. I feel like younger like 22 year olds are by and large pretty fucking annoying And so but don't you think we know do you think we agree 100% but that's what I'm saying is those people were also annoying when they were 22 I was annoying when I was 22. I'm still annoying. I bet a 45 year old here's me talk sometimes I was like God, I can't wait for you to get over that and they're right, you know like that's the thing is you you with the benefit of wisdom You look back on the absence of wisdom and see it as what it is which is Lacking wisdom in annoying. Yeah, and also younger people don't think much about older people because younger people pretty much only think about themselves But why do older people feel like younger people don't like them? That's my that's where I take issue it Yeah, that's a really good question. I think we like you guys you guys I'm sorry Older person in the room No, it's funny. I actually I really don't know and I don't have Any genuine hangups about age people think I do because I joke about a lot. I really I really don't I feel Older person to you I'm a self. I'm a safe older person to you. And that means the world to me. How old are you? I forget You're 24 13 you're 25 14 14 going on 25 14 going on 14 14 Actually, having a 14 year old on the podcast would be kind of chic. It'd be interesting to hear their ideas I should talk to a younger person. We've had some older people on the show and you know what? I can already feel that I'm doing The thing that I was talking about because you're talking about having someone younger than me. I'm like, yeah That was supposed to be me That might that might be nice to get kind of like a fresh voice around here That's so funny Do you have any do you have any regrets? Let's just get into it I don't know what kind of mood I'm in today, but fuck it. Do you have any regrets? Yeah, I mean first of all like the part where I got a wonderful opportunity and I put my feet in the camera Yeah, um, I thought it was cool by the way I called you racist. I called your listeners - That's really it, it's for sure. - There's a lot of listeners to the show, but probably at least a couple of them are racist. I bet you got at least a couple of people in that. - Oh, right, right, just throw out the, that's what I love about the race car, like you're gonna hit somebody. - Yeah. (laughing) - Yeah, I have a lot of regrets. I wish I could go back and change a lot of the decisions I've made and a lot of the ways I've acted in my life, but it's also tough because, I also have such a beautiful and fabulous life. - Yeah. - That's filled with a lot of love, and so it's scary to think that any, that even things I do regret could have led me to a different path. - Yeah. - You know, I was supposed to start men's school this year. - I do know that about you. - So like, Jesus, what a horror. - Yeah. - That would have been. - That's not you in my opinion. - Thank you. - That's not this time on you. - Thank you. - I was supposed to be a lawyer. - What? - You a doctor, me a lawyer? A power couple for sure, but. - Oh yeah, that's where we started. - Just not what we wanted. - I do think we could be a couple. Do you think that you could like have a beard and sell it? - Sell it? (laughing) - Oh, but I guess that's what you did in your youth, right? - Yeah, I don't know that I was selling it. Oh yeah, my youth. I don't know that I was selling it. I don't know that I was ever selling straight. I don't know that anyone ever really bought it. - Okay. - I think everyone was just politely. It's kind of like when you, it's kind of like when someone super, super Christian is around a bunch of like atheists, but they're cool. Mostly. - Yeah. - And you just kind of tolerate the delusion because you like them. That's how people were treating my straightness, I think. He's mostly cool. Sure, he's straight. - Okay, okay. - Like sure, sure, sure, sure. - Yeah. - You know, tolerating that. - That's pretty kind. Sure, sure, sure, sure. - I don't think I was ever selling it. - I'm the friend who's kind of Christian. - No, super. I'm saying like super duper. I have plenty of friends that are kind of Christian saying like, - Oh, okay. - Like deadass. - Like no, like being crazy about it. - Like there's no like gray area, like not like spiritual, but like Christian, but I'll see. - Like everyone who's not Christian, - Can I show you something that I have? - That I have kind of Christians. (laughing) - Sheek. Sheek. - I was debating wearing it, but I didn't want to turn your viewers away. - You wouldn't. I have a lot of Christian viewers. My question viewers this, when I say super Christian, I mean, do you think undeniably with certain team? - Oh, I know what you're gonna say. - That people of every other faith go to hell. - Yeah, no, no, no, no. - See, that's what I'm talking about. - I kind of don't even believe in hell, but we don't have time. - That's the line in the sand for me. You cannot believe that every other faith goes to hell. - Yeah, that's crazy. - And if you do, it's all my love. - That's like, that's so-- - You're in a cold. - Bollywax, or whatever the word is. - I have got my Christianity. I like Christianity. I myself might even come back to it someday. I am just saying to me, the big line in the sand is like-- - Totally. - Also don't believe in hell. The big line in the sand is if anybody of any faith believes genuinely in their heart that they are 100% correct in everyone else's burns in hell for eternity-- - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - You're brainwashing. - You're like totally nuts. - Like, of course. - That's crazy. - Of course. - Do you have-- - Do I have a faith? - Regrets. - Regrets. You're not gonna like my answer. - No. - I don't. - But that's cool, because that gives me hope. - Yeah. - Did you have regrets? (laughing) - I want to be you someday. (laughing) - No, I'm kidding, I love it. I love it. - Was there a time that you had regrets that you learned to let go of, or you've never had regrets all along? - I think it's not to say I've never done anything incorrectly or badly. I certainly regret that I dislike that behaviors that might have caused undesirable outcomes, but I don't regret anything, because I haven't majorly wronged anybody in my life. I haven't hurt anybody. I haven't ruined anyone's life. Not everyone can say that, so I don't think it's correct to have no regrets. - Wow. - I'm lucky to have-- - After we record, can you please tell me who you're thinking of when you say that someone has ruined someone's life? - Yeah, I can. But no, I don't have any regrets. I feel like everything, like it would be easy to look back and be like, oh, man, I wish I would have started comedy sooner or not taken school so seriously when I was 20, but I really don't feel that way. I think it taught me work ethic. - I think it really made you who you are. - Yeah, everything's great. I like my life. I think if you really genuinely present day enjoy your life, you can't have regrets. - That's the topic of most days I don't, and I'm in so much pain, it's unimaginable. - Is that true? - Yeah. - I'm not really sure how to engage with that, you know? Because that was such an earnest and intense thing to say. - Oh, yeah, sorry. - What kind? - No, I'm not upset with that. I like that you said that. - What kind of pain meant to- - Yeah, mental emotional pain. - I'm kind of surprised and relieved that you don't know this about me. I'm in anguish. - Yeah. Well, is it like, what are we doing about it? Is there medication involved? Is there therapy? - This is the year that I've, you got me guys. I agree we got to get a professional in the mix. (laughing) Okay, turn off the lights, bring everyone out, my family's in the closet. Yeah, we're gonna get a professional involved in my unceasing daily anguish. (laughing) - All right, all right. - Yeah, okay, jokes over, I'm gonna get help. (laughing) All right, yeah, my ceaseless pain is gonna become someone else's problem. All right, all right, you got me. (laughing) I'm tired of going to the bone. (laughing) All I do is hurt. Anybody got options? Solutions. - That is me. Okay, oh, oh, the therapist coming out. Oh, the therapist was pretending to be the mailman. All right, all right. Turn it up for Randy, all right. - Yeah. - We'll be talking. - I'll sit on the little couch, all right. What's going on? I heard all the time. Oh. (laughing) I love it, I genuinely think it is so deeply cool that you said that. And also, I'd love to know what we're doing about it. Both. - Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. It's pending 'cause I'm busy. - Yeah. - But something's gotta be done. - Something's gotta be done. Things can't go on the way that they've been going. - Yeah. - But that's also, I hate that I brought up the generation thing. But I think that's also Gen Z to be like, "Hi, good morning, I'm in despair." - Yeah. - What do you think? I don't know. - I'm certain that a lot of people in Gen Z are experiencing that, yeah. - Or like the communication style of like, it actually, and even the way you received it, I felt bad, I think, for saying it 'cause it's a bit much to burden you. - No, I don't feel burdened by it at all. I think it's deeply cool. I like honesty and I don't think it serves anyone to politely lie to a friend, especially not in this context. - Yeah. - Are there times where that would be probably too much to share with a total stranger maybe? But I'm your friend, I deeply care about you. Also, the point of a show like this is to talk about life. I think we're engaging in conversation about life, and this is something a lot of people are experiencing. But I think, can you pinpoint suicide hotline? - Yeah, yeah. - Get help. - Can you pinpoint what the biggest, there's so many different buckets of dread, is it state of the world dread, is it personal? Like what is? - Oh, see, again, you're a good person. My dread is quite selfish. - That's nice. - I feel hope about the world. - That's really funny. - But not really about the case of Joe Sunday. (laughing) - That's really funny because your life is going great and the world's kind of going bad. So for you to be like, no, I think the world's gonna be fine. It's me that I'm stressed out about. That's really deeply funny to me, and I like that. - Oh my gosh. - What's causing you stress about Joe Sunday? Could you wanna talk about it, or you kind of just wanted to move on? - No, no, no, we totally can talk about it. I mean, like, we're gonna have to cut that. (laughing) - We'll just bleep it. We'll bleep it and not say what you said. - We're gonna have to cut that. I think let's put a little blur over the lips so no one can lip-read it. (laughing) I mean, yeah, that'll be part of it for sure. (laughing) - I'm very, very lonely. - Yeah? - Yeah, it's, I call it the original loneliness. I think, like if slash one, I call myself, I do think this will be like, subject line of the note. (laughing) - I'm sorry, I did such a good job, but it's such a good job. - Absolutely love that. If slash win, I call myself, Joe. I mean, the funny thing is, you're saying it out loud, but this is like, most comedians. - Well, of course, it's not the whole, it's like, we put on the clown, make up to cover the tears. - Yeah. - We're all miserable. - Yeah. - Well, yeah. (laughing) (laughing) - Yeah. - Okay, if you ever feel insulted by me, just remember, like, you're happy. - I don't ever feel insulted by you. - This is why I have the underdog complex, 'cause I'm like, I'm, I'm, whatever. Oh, yeah. Yeah, the original loneliness, I can't handle the idea that everything we feel at the end of the day if you feel it by ourselves. - Do you? - Unbearable. You can share and you can talk, but it's even like when you said, "Is it my problem or yours?" It is my problem because as much as I want to, I can't physically share a feeling with anybody. - Right. We have to make sense of and deal with our own emotions at the end of the day. - Why would you say that to me? - Yeah, I know, it sucks. It's a true, it's a true, like. - That's too, too difficult. - It's a true stumbling block, I think, in the way of a lot of us in happiness is the thing that like we genuinely at the end of the day, every feeling we've ever experienced has been experienced by many other people and probably is at the exact same time. - Oh, okay, maybe that's hope, maybe that's hope. - But the way that you deal with it personally and how you choose to move through it is like ultimately up to you. - Man, it sounds man or stuff. But maybe this is the kind of thing that people get into with this like therapy stuff or like the psychiatry. - Okay, okay. - I have tried therapy and every therapist I've had is like, listen, kid, I've reviewed your file. I'm not the one. - Really? - Yeah. - You can turn away by mental health professionals. I don't think they should be allowed to do that. - I had no idea it was an option. (laughing) - But it is and yeah, my situation is pretty dire. - Yeah. - Yeah. (laughing) - How many genuinely, how many therapists have you been turned away from? - Three. - Three. - Yeah. - It's not a lot. - Oh. - It's not a lot. There's a lot of therapists out there in the world. - Three is biblical. - Three is crazy. I'm not going to lie to you. - Three is a bigger number than zero. (laughing) I'm not going to hold you on that. Hey, things aren't perfect. Things aren't perfect. But it's not enough to give up. I'll tell you that. Three is a bigger number than zero. - Hey Caleb. - Yes, ma'am. (laughing) - JK, JK, JK, JK. - No, we can find someone. - Three is a huge number. - Three is bigger than one or two. But yeah, we basically have no choice. Like we got to try again. - We will try again. Can I help? Do you want to send me? - And it's the self-sufficiency thing. - Yeah. - That it's like this is the year I'm kind of accepting help. - Yeah. Send me your insurance information. - Well, that's the thing. - Do you have insurance? - How do you sign up for that stuff? - Okay. Okay, that is a huge part of it. You have insurance through your union, if you don't have a union. - Back, back, back, back. - Yeah, basically I figured out how to get on, I was on Medicaid for a year. And I got about, beep, beep number of UTIs. Boom, I was getting those antibiotics. Boom, I was drinking them up. And then, yeah, I have to sign up for this union health insurance. - So I have really good news for you. - Okay. - And this is a thing to be excited about. Union insurance is a great opportunity. - It's good. I'm so excited I'm gonna have appointments down. - I went from having no insurance. - I'm gonna go nail salon to the doctor salon. - Right. I do not know if it covers nails, I haven't checked. - No, no, no, but I'll cover my nails. - You're just saying, okay, okay, okay. - Just checking. - And then I'm seeing the sleep doctor, mental health doctor, the back doctor, the knee doctor, the endocrine doctor, all the doctors are gonna be seeing me. - I did appointment, I went crazy on appointments when I got union health insurance, because I didn't have any before. I was like really neglecting things. - Do you feel comfortable to disclose what was the medical intervention that helped you the most? That made that, like, yeah. - Helped me the most? - Or just like-- - The most concerning was my teeth. I really had cavities that I was not dealing with because I was so broke. - That makes so much sense. - And they hurt and I was poor. - This is so scary, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - They're so mad at you and so mean. - I'm still fixing it, say it. - Orthodontist. - What? I've never been. - I had adult races for six years. - Did you? - Yeah. - I've got a tooth that could come forward. This one, he's pushed back. I'm not gonna do anything about it, but they would if I let them. I like him. I think he has character. - That's completely hot. - They would take some things I could. - Two supermodels who have that tooth structure. - Yeah, we gotta come all the fucked up things too. These guys are a little weird. But my teeth were, they were never ugly. They were just like hurting, what? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Proof of life. - Proof of life. - Yeah, I like weird teeth. I like weird teeth that like weird faces. I think it's helpful as an actor. I'll never get work on my face, ever in my entire life. I like being expressive. I'm not worried about wrinkles. I think they'll be good for me. But I do. - You are. Well, I think almost everyone looks hotter as the age and you in particular, oh my God, I'm seeing you a bit older. And I think we are gonna date when you're old. - Can I tell you something? - What? - I look at pictures of myself when I was 19 and picture myself now and I go, you are so lucky, brother. I look so much better already than I did when I was 19. - I mean, I bet you were adorable and like porcelain. - I was like cute or whatever, but like, and now I'm looking at myself for the last year or so and I'm going, hey, brother. - I do think with truly with everyone, but especially with like boys or masculine people. Time just helps. - Yeah. - Just get a bit of weathering. There's a bit of a shaping that goes on. - It doesn't help everybody though. I've seen some people go through a rough situation. - Okay. - I've seen Twink Death is real. I've seen some Twink's go through trouble. 'Cause at first it's cute, you know, you're 21 and you're like the cutest guy on campus. You get to 32 all of a sudden. - Gaunt. - Gaunt. - Gaunt. - It doesn't go better for everyone. It gets better campaign should've had a tagline. - For some of you. (laughing) - Yeah, it should be like, it gets better, but like, get some Botox just in case. - It gets better, but hey, I can't say. - Yeah, it gets better, but Trenton Owen is there. - Everybody's beautiful. - Is available. Just kidding. - Do you know, did you ever watch flavor of love? - Of course I did. - Okay, good, good. I love that. There's this line where New York, it's the penultimate episode of season two. New York is talking about who's a girl that says, oh, what's her name? I can't remember, but she's Goldie. No, yeah, Goldie Goldie, the one who says, "Did everyone try the chicken?" I thought the chicken was lovely. It's New York versus Goldie. And New York has kind of shocked that Goldie has made it so far. And she says about, like she says that Goldie is cute, but she says cute, nice to gorgeous. Gorgeous is gonna devour cute. - Yeah, I love that line. And I love that by the way, Goldie, it wasn't Goldie that microwave the chicken. Goldie was making fun of. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Who microwave the chicken? - Hottie microwave the chicken. And Goldie was like, "Hottie!" (laughing) A full chicken in the microwave. - But don't you think that Hottie? Where is Hottie by the way? Because don't you think that woman is a genius? Don't you think she knew she was being hilarious? - I don't know, I would have to talk to her more. 'Cause if she knew and she was doing her performance or then I think she's one of the most brilliant minds alive. - Yeah. - But I do think there are people who would microwave a chicken. And I don't know which one she was. 'Cause I don't know her. - I just really feel like. - Maybe this is like my feminist campaign that when a woman does something and we laugh, I want to err on the side of, I'm like, a tour theory. - I would love to. - Because she had so many, she had so many other moments. Like she was the one who said, everyone tells her she looks like Beyonce. - Beyonce. - Beyonce, Beyonce. - Beyonce, I am so sorry that in ugly bitch like this, we'd even say some shit like that. - Beyonce, you look like Luther Vandros. (laughing) - Yeah, I was there. - I forgot about that one. - Oh, I was there. - I was there. - I was not there, but as soon as I was at age, I caught it on YouTube. - I think New York's a genius. - That clearest day. - That's undeniable. - That clearest day. Tiffany Polard, is that how you say it? - Tiffany, New York Polard. God, I love you. You made me. - I love you. - And you made me. - You made so many of us. - She is foundational text. - Genius. - Yeah. - She's everything. - And for Nini, and it's crazy, they wrote, well, the internet is dead now and memes and such are dead, but for as long as they lived, it was written by those like four women. Like, it was New York, Nini Leaks. The white lady from, well, Kim from season one of Real Hospice of Atlanta. And maybe like Deirdre or like one other, like the whole internet, like I really think like, I remember like 85% of memes for of these women. It's not resonating what I'm saying. - No, I just, I know Nini, to me, I can only agree with because I've seen the memes in the outcome. I've never seen any Real Housewives episode. So I don't know anything about Real Housewives. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - She's in a different kind of spirit to me. So I don't know about, I don't know who Deirdre is, I don't know who Kim is. No worries, no worries. - But I like to. - This was my observation is I spent a couple years on the internet, I loved memes, I loved Jeff, so it was really, really in that. And I had also never watched Real Housewives. And then maybe like two years ago, I watched, even the first episode, but like the first season of Real Housewives of Atlanta, every me, it's, you know, people are like, watching the Mona Lisa being painted, like every meme, on the internet is from this one season of this specific show. You think that they're from the years and the years, but I swear, it's all real half-swise of Atlanta season one. - Yeah. There's something to be said about our culture going from real half-swise of Atlanta being the thing to real half-swise of Salt Lake City being the thing, and I'm not liking the shift. And I, like I said, never seen either of them. - Race the fascism onto that. - But let's just look at what that means along with what's happening with our government and take a peek at them. - Someone needs to do as my paper. - I bet there's a college student out there right now drafting it. - I wanna see it. - I wanna be in touch with them. - I wanna see it bad. - Yeah. - What are you watching? - I wanna answer this question. I want you to know. - Yeah, it's so loaded. - I know how I sound and I'm not this guy, but I don't watch reality TV. Everyone hates that about me. - No, that's okay. That's okay. - I watched documentaries. - Oh, great, great. - And I watch movies. - Come on. - And I feel bad that I don't watch. I wish I watched more garbage 'cause I know that's in vote right now. - Wait, I presented a false image of myself as someone. I think reality TV is really cool. I don't watch a lot of it. - I'm not talking to you when I say this. I'm not, I'm not defending myself to you. I don't feel the need to defend myself to make for Joe. - To the people. - I'm defending myself to the many, many listeners. Many. Big show. - Wait, what are we called again, the truthers? - Truthers, Caleb Ruiz, K lesbians. K lesbians are a growing faction. - Cool. - K lesbians are becoming more and more vocal. - K lesbians. - And I love, and I thank you, K lesbians. Thank you for being here. - What about the cautions? - I haven't heard much from the cautions, but I would really love to hear from you all cautions if you're out there. Really any group that identifies as a supporter of Caleb, I want to hear from them. - I'm trying to think we could be like, I'm gonna say something like so offensive. Like I was trying to mix Caleb and like black people, but it was gonna come out like so, just like Jim Crow and wrong. - Yeah, I don't think it's obviously my place. I felt pretty comfortable starting Caleb Ruiz. That was where, that's the contribution I gave to the-- - I know I wanted to give you one, but I was gonna say like, the cave black eats or something, but it was like-- - That's exactly what I was for. - Sorry. - That's so crazy. No, I don't know what it would be. I guess black Caleb fans, let me know. - Do you know that surely somebody in this room know was the demographic makeup of your listeners? - Oh, not by number, but it's a whole bunch of women. It's a lot of women. - Great. - I would say-- - Great. - We touched on some womenly topics. - I would say, probably 65, 70% women. That's a number that I'm like pretty sure of. - Yeah. - More straight guys than you would think. - In question mark or we don't know about that. - I don't know racial makeup. Based on who approaches me, it's a pretty even mix of racial background. - Cool. More straight guys than I'm comfortable with. Shout out to you boys, but I am surprised that you're here and I don't really know. I don't know what's doing it for you, but I'm so glad that you're here. I hope that we're all learning something. - Unfortunately, my best-- Well, I have a lot of best friends, but my best fucking friend is a straight guy, so-- - Really? I would never. There's not a single straight guy that I respect. There's not one straight guy that I hang out with respect. - Really? - Not one. - But that's a green flag to me. That's principal-- - Oh, I see, I see, you're bullying. - You're bullying, Mr. Cat. - I'm bullying Chance and also a bunch of other people out there. - Come on, Chance. I'm sorry. - Somebody closest to me, my god. - Oh my god. - They're a delightful community. - I'm gonna say something that I think is hack and I'm sorry that I'm truly just arriving at this now. Chance is straight Caleb. - Caleb is gay, Chance. - Oh. - Think about that. (laughing) - Well, Chance and I have known each other since we were 17 years old. - I know. - So we have-- - Of course, he would morph like Brad Pitt and his girlfriend. - We have been in the trenches. We have been in the trenches. Asian Caleb fans, please let me know if you like Cajuns. If you don't, that's no worries. We would love to hear from you. Black Caleb fans, I love you, too, please. - But I could also be, couldn't Cajuns be for like black people from the South? - Yeah, that's really smart. - Yeah, that's really, really smart. - I hate puns. Or not really, but I hate, I don't like when a joke hinges on the fact that a word sounds like another word or a word could be misunderstood for not a word. I think that's cheap. - Yeah, I'm really, I'm kind of into it. - Really? No, I said the wrong thing. I said the wrong thing. - You said the wrong thing at all. I think it's interesting. - Okay, I don't like it. - But Calebherty's, I'm not explaining it well. I do like, like Jane had this joke where she was like, my name's Tamara, I'll tell you Tamara, I thought that was adorable and really, really made me laugh. But I don't like when a joke is like, oh, people are always doing, oh, fuck, I can't remember. But they're like, oh, people are all, oh, I'm, I'm being mean for no reason. People are always doing a joke where the word melatonin sounds like melanin. They're always doing a joke where they're like, someone like gave me melatonin, but I thought I was gonna like wake up African American years of being on like, (laughs) - Me, if you're actually editing my next hour, crossing things out, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Yeah, that joke sucks, that's why you don't like it. - Right, I think it's probably just one. - That joke sucks, I hate that joke. - Wait, you were saying something interesting. Oh, and I was remembering, I have something interesting to ask you. - Go ahead. - Let's say yours, 'cause I remember mine. - Oh, I was just saying, black, black Calebhertyans, please let us know what you'd like your fan name to be. - Oh, I remember mine. - Say. Who is your ideal audience member? - A deal audience member. - Actually, it's two questions. Like, one, when you're writing, when you're writing, is there a person you have in mind who you're writing for? And does that person match with who your dream audience member is like the person you actually want to be watching your stuff, coming to your shows, et cetera? - I genuinely try as hard as I can when I'm writing not to think about the audience at all. I try so hard to remove them from an entirely-- - I think about yourself. - Yeah. - You're writing with the man of the mirror. - Yeah, I'm thinking, what do I think is funny? What am I genuinely trying to say? What is the point? Do I think this is acceptable? - Yeah. - It is a very hard practice, and I'm not saying that I accomplish it, but that is what I'm trying to do. - Cool, cool, cool. - I am most, I will say, black audiences are the most discerning about comedy. - They're tough. - 'Cause black people are so funny. - Black people are so funny, and black people also, I feel that black people, black audiences specifically, they don't do pity. They give it to you when you've earned it, and they don't when you don't. - Seriously. - And why audiences really do pity? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And I don't want pity. I want to be really, really good. - Yeah, yeah. - So when I make a black audience laugh, or an audience that has more black people in it, or if I'm looking at an audience, and I see, as is the case that a lot of Brooklyn venues, if I see 300 white people and six black people, I'm mostly looking at the six black people. - Yeah. - Because if I'm making the black audience members genuinely laugh. - That's real accounts. - Then I know that I can trust it. If I'm making like, I don't know, a lot of white audiences really do just give pity laughs. And I'm like, I'm not interested in that. I want to be genuinely good. So I genuinely do really appreciate when a black person finds me funny, but I have a lot of white fans, and I am genuinely grateful that they come and find me funny as well. But I would say like, yeah, I think there is a tendency towards, like, I mean, yeah, like white lies, like polite, like there's a tendency towards politeness that I'm just not really interested in. So I would say that. - And is there any element to, like I'm thinking about how, you know what we slash we sports resort? You know what we, the Nintendo we, you would make a me. I'm thinking about how, for some reason, through my entire childhood, all my mies were white. How are we gonna reconcile this, right? What are we gonna do about that? Is there anything to you when you're thinking about your ideal audience member? Is there anything to the question of like, does that person match you? Is that person like a gay person from Missouri? Or are they someone totally different? - No, I don't think of an ideal audience member really. I like, cool on. - Like I said, I would like to kill in rooms that I think are difficult to kill in. That's what I would like the most. I think, and I also think white comics know this by the way. I think a lot of white comics don't perform in black rooms because they know that it won't go well. And so I think this is a known fact in what you do about it as your business. - Yeah, yeah. - Even this is something that's kind of a question for me because it's also like, well do you, I wonder if maybe there's something to be said for something that I like about the state of comedy today, is that? - Jesus Christ, I'm sorry to be giving my, no one asked for my opinion about the state of comedy. - I did. - Okay. Oh, there just are so many comedy fans and so it couldn't be cool to find your niche and maybe some people feel like is it good? Like if you don't kill in certain rooms, is it good to be like, okay, well like those, those seller people aren't my business anyway or should you still really go for it and try? - No, I'm not interested in performing at the seller or the store, not because of the audiences necessarily, but because I don't like the way they do biz, I don't care. - Yeah, yeah. - I'm not gonna come and like they asked me to perform at the comedy store in a way they're like, come and do our like, come and work your way up And do our part. And I'm like, I start out your way up I sell out rooms three times the size of that room. I don't need to work my way. Crazy. That's so crazy. But that's the thing is I'm like, that's that do whatever you want. I don't care. I don't care. And also, if I bombed in front of a room of like Midtown tourists, would I care? Yeah. Yeah. But that's the thing is you have to be, you have to believe in your thing regardless. But some comics, yeah, their thing doesn't work in a lot of rooms and they don't care. They're like anti-comedy comics and I think they're, I really laugh at those sets and enjoy them. It's not what I want to do, but I think it's awesome. I hear you. I hear you. Yeah. I think I'm a little more with you on this. Yeah. Yeah. I would like, I would like to get laughs, but yeah, I think it's cool when people have a different way of doing it. I think the fun thing about comedy and the times I feel most like honored and excited to be part of like the comedy world is when there's a lineup with people who do it very differently. Yeah. And I get to watch it and be like, oh, fuck, I love it. I could never do what Sarah Squirm does. I could never do what Chris Fleming does. I could never do. Oh my God. You're making my dream line up. I'm like getting hot in my hands. You know? Yamanika? Yes. The first time I saw her on a lineup, I was like, I don't have access to what she does. Completely. Don't need it. I do what I do. Yeah. But it's fun to watch lineups where you're right. Who's going to make this like me, my next show? Make your line up, baby. Here we go. Come on. Can I ask you another comedy question? Oh, but finish your thought. That's it. I just love it. It is laughter, you're God. And I can explain what I mean by that, or you can take it, or you can take it as you hear it. Explain what you mean, because I'm interested. Okay. Well. It's a bit shady. I don't think it'll come across this shady and whoever would take it that way, it wouldn't be listening to this anyway. I was talking, there was a comic who I felt, oh, here I go. There was a, okay, I'll be vague, I'll be vague. There was a comic, I don't even like the word comic. There was a comedian. There was a clown whose jokes I felt were harmful. I really didn't like them. I really took issue, but they were getting a lot of traction online and a chose. And I met this person and they asked them, like, why do you do that? Like do you really believe that stuff? Do you really dislike XYZ category of person? And the person's response was so interesting. They were like, no, I roll with all kinds of people. I don't care at all. I just say that stuff because it gets the reaction I want. It just gets the audience, just gets me the sound of laughter that I need. And to me, that is laughter is your God, that's the central thing is just like, what can I say to get the sound of laughter? Whereas other people, like, I'm such a big fan of Jacqueline Novak, I feel like her God is like, maybe like the idea or like the narrative maybe something like that, so I'm curious for you. Do you stand? I think this, I phrase this question differently for myself, but when you explained it, I understood it as a question that I have asked myself, I think every comedian has to ask themselves this question in some way at some point, if you've been doing it for long enough, you have to decide. The way I ask it is, do you want to be funny more than you want to be anything and the answer is no. I want to be a good person more than I want to be anything and I want to be funny really, really, really badly. And I don't actually, me personally, I don't actually disrespect people who want to be funny more than they want to be anything. There are comics I like who I don't quite either, yeah, I don't care, I'm like, good for you. I'm like, go nuts. Yeah. If I don't like the joke, I'm like, whatever. If you want to be funny more than you want to be anything, do I think that's going to lead you to like a spiritually happy, good, content place, do I think that's going to lead to a necessarily good life? No. That's why I'm not doing it, but I want to be a good person more than I want to be anything and then in a very close second, I want to be funny really badly, but it matters, you know? Yeah. I'm assuming that you are not in the camp of laughter as God. No, and I think it's to my detriment. That's interesting. I think I'm a little bit too nerdy about comedy. I think I spend too much time thinking what's really the truth here? What can I find? What can I twist? It's like, it's not it. It's not a master's thesis. Yeah. That's a really, really interesting point. I do that a lot. I will oftentimes be testing a joke where I'm trying to do way too much. Yeah. I think that's something I've noticed as kind of a poison rising up in Brooklyn and comedy a little bit. Yeah. And honey, I've been poison before. Like a standup set that's an essay. Yeah. Yeah. I've, I've known, I've caught myself doing that before. You've been poison. Me too. I'm poison all the time. Yeah. And then you draw it back in it's way funnier. Yeah. Well, Joe, we have one last thing for you. We're almost done. We have a segment for you. Oh, God. Okay. So we can never talk again after this. I hate that. We should take that out of the contract. The grief will, the grief will consume me. And we'll talk off camera about some stuff. Oh. Therapy and all that. Are you ready? We're going to play a true false segment. Okay. I'm going to read you 15 statements. You're going to tell me as quickly as you can if what I just said was true or false. Okay. Joe, if you get 10 or more correct, we're going to give you $50 US dollars. Boom. Are you ready? Lunch. The Houston Texans have won two Super Bowls. False. False. False. Zero. Rebecca Black Song Friday came out on a Thursday. Hmm. True. True. Ants don't have lungs. You're the way you're telling me the answer right away is totally messing with me. True. The first credit card was invented in 1915. Hmm. True. False. 1950. Ah. That's what I thought. Okay. Ah. Ghana has the seventh largest population among African countries. Oh. Did you put that for me? I didn't write them. I won't lie to you. Ghana has the seventh. That, I mean, that's like, that's the seventh largest isn't anything. Come on. False. False. 13th. Point Nemo is the farthest place from land on earth. Okay. Is it like, do you have a house there? Sorry. I just don't know. Don't you? Killed Tony. He didn't response the question. Um, I don't freaking know. False. True. It takes two years for a single pineapple to grow fully. Um. True. True. Portland, Oregon was almost named Boston, Oregon. True. True. Boston sharks. False. False. Goats have rectangular pupils. False. True. The mascot for the University of Chicago is Marty the Maroon. Hello. Oh. False? Because I think it's a phoenix. False, it's Phil the phoenix. SpongeBob Squarepants and Squidward are voiced by the same actor. Oh, man. I wish I knew. False. False. The guy who invented Pringles had his ashes buried in a Pringles can. Ah, probably true. Sick of. True. Komodo dragons have opposable thumbs. These are such fun facts. Ah, true. Because I think that's how they do them in the cartoons. Yeah. False. Ah. Last one. The first Avatar movie is made more money than Avatar 2. Ah. True. True. How'd she do? Eleven. Yeah. Let's go. Winner. Winner. Yeah. Yeah. Hey. Proud of you. Great job on the game. Hi. Thank you. Hey, Joe. Is there anything you want to tell people where they can find you, etc? Um, yeah. My Instagram is joe.lawfrice, like the food, um, and you can see me in the credits. It goes by quicker than you can imagine in the credits of a certain TV show that airs every Saturday night. It's MSNBC. MSNBC. You're right for MSNBC. MSNBC. Thanks so much for being on. We love you. Thanks for doing it. Oh my god. I love you so much. Thank you. [MUSIC]