JJ Martin: On Transcendental Travel and Raising Your Vibration

[music] Pushkin. JJ Martin vibrates at the highest frequency. After almost 25 years in Milan, where she built her reputation as a roving fashion reporter, street style sensation, and now as the founder of the maximalist and incredibly successful fashion brand, The Double J. She's just opened her flagship store on the Upper East Side of Milan. Five full floors and right around the corner from where we are right now. When JJ travels, she isn't actually spotting trends, but instead moving through a realm rarely associated with fashion. Instead, she's exploring sacred spaces, ancient traditions, and spiritual practices. But in my experience, it's always a mistake to dismiss JJ as a wellness guru or particularly woo-woo. Because once you embrace her energetic pursuit of the energetically charged, you just can't help but be energized yourself. In this chat, we sit underwater falls in Bali, go to the edge of volcanoes in Sicily, retreat to caves in Capododja, and hang together from the branches of a tree. Here's my conversation with my friend JJ Martin. [music] JJ, welcome. Hi, Devi. This is the final episode of season one. And actually, I thought that you might be in season two or season three when we have an opportunity to meet somewhere else. Or be in Milan where we both, or at least I live half the time and you live full time. But as with everything with us, fate intervened. Always. And something happened, a block and a half from here, a lighthouse appeared of Madison Avenue, a five-story lighthouse, which is your flagship store, not only in the United States, but globally. And you just opened it so congratulations. Thank you so much. I mean, you and I are always synchronized in this way and it's beautiful to see. And this, I did have to blink a few times as I was standing outside and look at five stories of upper east side, which I never imagined would ever, ever happen. But it's magnificent and I feel so grateful and it feels like things are shining within and without in so many ways. So it's great. Maybe we can start with you moving to Milan. How many years ago, 20? 24. Well, actually 25 this August. And you moved there for love. I moved there for love. And you say four. And you say four. I stayed for work. So we have a not dissimilar background in the sense that we were both writers, reporters, editors for newspapers and magazines. But you really started working for which wallpaper? First job was bottom of the barrel media world. The world's first online fashion news service, which was Fashion Wear Daily, then got hired to write for the International Hero Tribune, which was sort of like my big break. And that's when I got hired by Harper's Bazaar. And really developed a family of women in fashion, writing and media that I'm still friends with to this day. And it was really funny because at the time, you know, Harper's Bazaar was always second fiddle. I would say there was no argument in that to American Vogue. And it's really interesting about being, I wouldn't say the underdog, but sort of not in the Champions League level all the time. It just the grit creates so much more depth and hardworking mentality and your ability to really go out and launch yourself because so few things are actually handed to you on a plate. And all of us who worked under Glenda, I would say, we all kind of developed that real hardworking mentality, which isn't to say that at other magazines they don't. I just meant that like there was this real idea that we had to go the extra mile in order to get that scoop or to get that access. But then you sort of kind of came from like out of the Wordsland, kind of behind the magazine, behind the newspaper, when street style blogging kind of started, right? Which people didn't remember that, right? It was nuts. Japanese, the Japanese magazines invented that. They sent their photographers over. And I think this was before the advent of Instagram. And it was this nutty thing where we would all get swarmed by these Japanese photographers really funny. So we were big in Japan. It was exciting. But I also think of like Harper's Bazaar as being way more kind of directional, not bright patterns, maximalism, which has always been your style, in which I think how would we describe the double J or brands style? It's definitely maximal. It's definitely joyful. It's definitely colorful. But people don't realize we also do like 10 variations on a white shirt. Right. So we've broadened beyond that. But I've always lived in both worlds everywhere I've been. So I used to work at Kalman Klein. There wasn't a single color anywhere, including the yellow sticky pads. They were white. So I've had like a lot of duality in my life. I grew up in a family of surfers, volleyball players. My dad was a hunter, fisherman. We did a lot of scrappy things. And then my mom was very like debutante. So there was a lot of ins and outs of many different worlds. Yeah, I wear black now too, every once in a while. Sometimes, sometimes. Rarely. Rarely. One time you were being interviewed, well, in terms of color, I was at the V&A where you were being interviewed for I think a book, Mamamilano. And it just so happened again in this symbiosis thing that we were staying. That you just happened to be there. No, no. Well, in hotel rooms next to each other completely, completely randomly. I just so happened that I had a few hours spare. And I was like, OK, well, I'm going to come with you to see the talk. And aside from the fact that I was sitting in the audience and you pointed at me and said, that's my friend Dave V. Mr. Beige, which I resent actually. The one thing that you said to me when you said during the talk, one of your customers or fans, let's say, got up and said, you know, what is it about color? And what would you say to people that don't want to wear color? And you said, you looked her dead in the eye. And I wonder if you remember what you said. This comes up so often that people who have an aversion to color, worn on themselves, typically have a difficult relationship with being seen from the outside world. They don't really want to stand out. When you're wearing a lot of color, when you're wearing a lot of print, people will notice, people will look at you, people will point. And I think what's been amazing about this company and this journey is that, yes, it's about maximism and color and pattern, but it's truly about this mission to call raise your vibration and really that's about your radiance, like allowing you to be in touch with your radiance, feel your radiance and show it to the world. And there's so many different ways that you can do that. And it's obviously not just shopping and it's not just color. There's so many different ways and that's what I'm really into to be perfectly honest. Are the clothes like a Trojan horse for a bigger idea, essentially? Yeah, I mean, I feel like they are. You and I have talked about this so much. I mean, that's why we have the lighthouse in New York and it's why we have the star quarters in Milan with these temple spaces. So on the roof of our offices, on the top of the store, we've got a temple space where we're bringing in people who know about energy, frequency, and different ways to help people connect into that, to clear that. That's what I'm probably the most excited about. And even though, of course, my business partner, who also happens to be my ex-husband, is always like, "Do we really need to be paying for this space right off of a mass?" And I was like, "Can't that be a store space?" But it does feel like, in a way, they feed each other. And I know that they feed me, so that's what I'm doing. I don't think I've ever told you this, but the first time that, not when we met, but the first time I heard of you all, you kind of came somewhere in my periphery. And then I remembered it years and years later, actually, relatively recently. I used to go to Milan quite often, because it lived in the countryside, and that's where the clubs were, and used to go on the weekend. And so I stick. I feel like you knew about plastic than I did before I did. And now I have a lot of mutual friends that work in the fashion world, but I was at kind of agriculture and food school, so I wasn't in that world. But I do remember the Californian about you, because it was this moment. Milan, when you crack it, is very warm and inviting. Oh my gosh, it's the best. But it can be very cold and closed, and those doors are closed to you until you kind of push them open ever so slightly. And I remember, people weren't necessarily that kind to you in the beginning. No. Also, it's not that they were mean. It was just more that they didn't give a shit, and there was no interest level. And there was very little access. The Italians, it takes a long time to get to know an Italian. And once you do, it's a friend for life. This is the exact opposite of someone in America you get to know in 20 seconds at the coffee counter. But then, you know, then, you know, friendship sort of come and go much easier, I feel like, in America, whereas this is what I noticed so much about the difference between New York and Milan. All the energy that I put into New York, I felt was like depleting me. All of the time and energy I put into Italy came back to like feed an enormous garden for me. Well, this is what I was going to get at. It's like, you know, Milanese typically are not skeptical, but they definitely, you know, aren't the first embracing of spiritual modalities. You know, it may have changed now in a way. So the reason I asked about the clothes being kind of a vehicle for something else is like, how do you deal with the skepticism of spirituality? Yeah, like as you being an advocate for that, because that certainly exists, right? It's less so in Milan now because it's coming from a very pure place and I always think of you as a California cheerleader. You know what? I really am. In a very genuine way. 100%. I love California, but I also love Milan. I had to cheerlead for Milan all those years that everyone hated Milan and no one wanted to come for the fashion shows. For sure, for sure. But I would say there's, I wrote a biography for myself, my spiritual biography that says something like, she's a spiritual normalizer, which basically is like, I think I can be a good bridge between the woo-woo and like regular people because I myself lived through all of that. So I was on that other side of like a very go-go type a, you know, group in California, but was always like on a path and very rigorous. I was a competitive gymnast for many years. I went to Berkeley. I don't think I ever took a summer off ever. I don't think I ever really took any time off. So there was so, and I had a couple of life crunches big time. My dad died when I was in college. I went through a really big depression that I went through a real challenging infertility process while I was in Italy. And that's what kicked off my spiritual practice. That was probably like in 2013. And then I started really getting into all these energy healers and teachers. And I felt like also having had the journalism background gave me the ability to talk to people. And every time I went to go see a healer, I would interview them. That's why I have all the stories in the in the bank. And I've got all these like hilarious stories. I would write an article basically every time I went to go see someone. What I've learned is that you don't want to go ever go and try to convince someone to get a quote-on quote spiritual practice. What you want to do is just make someone feel good. Right. However that, you know, so it's not about talking about it. It's about saying, hey, I've got a group gathered. Do you want to come and get some sound next week? And then suddenly they're laying in a sound bathroom. They were like, holy shit. What was that? Like what just happened to me? I completely floated out of my body. Hey, I'm kind of into sound. What is sound? Oh wait, frequency. Oh, so it let them discover the breadcrumbs. Well, when beauty and joy appeared together, it's very hard not to inspire someone's curiosity. Totally. And by the way, the beauty, it's like the little jangling. It's the dangling thing of like, here we are. We're really cute over here. And we've got something. It's a mix. It's a multidimensional, mixed, blended message that I think subconsciously we're working on people's desire to feel good. They do tap into feeling good. This is a place for feel good fashion. It's not mean girl. Right. Okay. So I, you know, I have a funny relationship with Florence, fit ends it. You know, because it's undenoughly beautiful, right? But that said, you know, there are these places that are so rammed with tourism, not travelers, that it can be really disappointing or confronting or overwhelming for people that are traveling to a Florence, let's say. And I'm always fascinated in places that, you know, are big destinations that have a critical mass of tourism. But like, for me, sometimes when I discover like the local life of it, I realize that they've also made this kind of invisible and that there is another life there. I mean, Venice, of course, is like that. And there I can think of a bunch of places around the world. But you've recently rediscovered or discovered Florence because I think you felt the same way as me before. I was so prejudiced toward Florence. I used to have to go for Pete DiWalmo Fashion Week. Which is, yeah, the men's, men's sort of fashion. Yeah. Three and a half years ago, I met somebody who became my boyfriend. And I hit the jackpot here because he was really inside this world. And what was also remarkable, so many people even Italians who lived there that weren't Florentine told me how cold and difficult the Florentines were. I didn't find that at all. It really depends on how you're interacting with them. There's really a code of behavior that is really beautiful. I have to say. So, but if you were to try traveling there, what have you discovered recently or what would you think about seeing that maybe other people haven't seen? Okay. Well, one thing that is everyone has seen new featsy. But I just, I hadn't been to the featsy sense college and my whole like energy body got activated in the meantime. So I went to the featsy. It was crowded. But I went in there. And even though the crowds was going, I got really close to some of the paintings. And I put my left hand up because your left hand is where you receive energy. Holy smokes. Put your left hand up to the Botticelli's and the Da Vinci's. Your entire hand is going to start vibrating like crazy. These are like energy. Put it up. So the David. Is there any like particular maker or store that you should be thinking about when you go to Florence? Okay. I have the craziest little inside rub. My dog pepper got outfitted for three custom dog collars and leashes with the matching poop bag at this place called Florence. They are, they have the sheikest color leather you could ever imagine. They're very affordable. That's one of my favorite places to buy gifts. Where else do I like to? One of my favorite museum churches that's never very full is the Orsan Mi Kele. Have you ever heard of it? No. Oh my god. It's a double nave. Oh well. It's sensational. And there's like a mother Mary sanctuary, like a church within a church. It's the most beautiful church I've ever seen in my life maybe. Oh well. And I'm really partial to that blue that they've been using in the Renaissance that's like corn flower blue. Cobalty corn flower with all the gold stars. They've got that at the the bargella museum which is extraordinary. That's where you can go see the David David by Donatella. Well exactly. That's my that's also one of my favorite. I love these places that feel like homes all throughout Italy. I highly recommend going into home museums. You're going to see a lot less people and they're extraordinary. Well like the five which is the national trust that has some extraordinary houses. So if you see if you see Fai Fai you know that's something to really follow. You just did a project in Florence as well with the Villa San Mi Kele. Which had also been a place that was really connected in some ways. I'd spent a lot of time in Fiesole. So those are the hills above Florence. I knew about the Villa had been once and then it was under renovation for a long time and a friend of hours. This is like the legendary one of if not the legendary hotel in Florence. It's extraordinary. It's a 16th century edifice. A former convent monastery etc has all of this like energetic properties. Obviously then it was a residence and it has been recently renovated and the architect was an Italian who knew us and was speaking to the general manager and was like I think that my friend should decorate the chapel and maybe a suite and just give it a little bit of a twist and we met with her and just like with all Italians. I mean there's it's such a heart exchange. That's what I love so much about Italy. Of course it's about business and commerce but it's so much more about do they like you? Do you like them? Is there a good feeling? Like do we want to have dinner together? This is who we're working with. It's really important. It's more important and that's how you get the service in Italy. 100% if you like torture an Italian or you're coming from like you need to do this now and this country is so inefficient and which is also not exactly the case to be honest. Yes it has it's some coex but it's not the case. Italians will just go taperella down. Taperella. They won't behave like that but they will blank you hard. Totally. It's a hard dough. It's so simple. I mean it took me so long to learn this. You just need to practice patience and kindness and with that and enthusiasm and you will get anything. I think enthusiasm. Enthusiasm more than anything else. Totally. Because it's like when you say, "Ciao come and say they're like oh my god your Italian is amazing." Yeah totally. It's one of the other countries that that where that still happens. It's so accommodating. They're so tolerant. I agree. I really love the Italians so much and it's really amazing too. It took me a while to unwind. I mean you were Australian so you probably had less of that New Yorker mentality built into you when you first went so you were more in their flow. I imagine. I was really resistant. I was pissed. I mean I was a sad egg. I was 24 years ago. It was a different game. Yeah, I was such chaos. when I was at school, so like, you know, university, so it quite suited me. You know, one time they canceled the exam that we'd all been studying for three months because there was a football game that night. Can you imagine what the American students were doing? They melted down. For me, I was like, "Oh, thank God, thank fuck. I can actually study for the first time and I've got 12 hour reprieve." Totally. I couldn't believe it how many times I would pass by a fructive vandalo. That's, you know, where you get your vegetables and fruits. In the beginning, there wasn't, there were very few, like, large supermarkets. And the guy would be there and he, and I'd be like, "Oh, I want to come in." He's like, "No, I'm going to my lunch now." I'm like, I just left my office so I could do my shop. No, no, no, no, I don't want to set. Like, it's time for their lunch. They do not want to sell you something. This episode of Traveling Through is sponsored by Capital One. Capital One cardholders are passionate about unforgettable experiences. Together, we partner to connect these curious travelers to world cultures, through expert-guided journeys. From the peaks of Machu Picchu to the Grand Architecture of Vienna, these once-in-a-lifetime trips take you somewhere truly off the beaten path. Through Capital One Entertainment, eligible cardholders can book exclusive experiences and so much more, all while earning elevated rewards. Save a cardholders an 8% cashback, and venture X earns 5x miles. Thanks to Capital One, your dream getaway is one step closer. I wanted to talk to you about, particularly here, is when we're talking about travel, what are these places that have that energetic pull, that vibration, let's say? Where you get lit up. Yeah, and also, like, I know that you're. And I'm in a way too, very into volcanoes, and also waterfalls, and I wanted to ask you about that because I don't think we've really, really probably talked about it, but I think that they are somehow a connection to the core. Yes. Literally, of course, with the Okina, but even waterfalls in the spring, like, somehow you feel there's an energy radiating out of the planet. 100%. And I think that a lot of people are understanding that, subliminally, and connecting to it on their subconscious levels. But then I started meeting all these wonderful healers and spiritual teachers over the last 14 years, and actually understood that these people, many of their spiritual gifts, are coming from their connection to the center of the earth. And for many of us actually connecting to the earth can be a little bit difficult. I mean, that energetically and spiritually, because it's so connected to your body, and people who have difficulty embodying, literally being in the body, have a harder time connecting to mother earth. They want to be out there up in the stars. You know, you have those airy, fairy kind of people. And I have also found that these trips that I've taken, where I can really connect into nature and connect to the to the frequency of Panchamama, Gaia, whatever you want to call her, it truly helps me with my own embodiment practice, which is fundamental, because when you're raising your vibration, let's say, there's so many different ways to do that. It's an energetic, you're like vibrating up here, then you need to ground it. And the earth really can help you with that. And there are, sorry, if I keep going. But the earth has so many power points on it. There's actually, you may know about the chakra system in the human body. In a lot of spiritual traditions, there's actually chakra points on planet earth. So Mount Chhasta is one of those. It was incredible. Guiza is one of them. We're going to go to one together, which is Uluru. We're going to do that. We're coming for your Australia. We've got to figure out those dates, but we're doing it in the next 12 months, we're going. That would be the one spiritual place that's like itching in my stomach of a place that I really need to go and connect to. Yeah, it's like the heart of the continent. It's where I've felt most related to what you're saying with a vibration or an energetic force that grounds you in a sense of like really understanding where I'm from. I was completely shocked by that experience. I have to say, it changed my life, frankly. That's why having spiritual retreats or workshops or trips in these places that our energy centers can be so much more powerful. And we have to also look back on these other wisdom traditions because people were feeling into this thousands and thousands of years ago of where the hotspots are. Well, that's really cool. Yeah, like the oldest living culture in the world, indigenous Australians. I mean, they make like Egyptians feel like modern. You know, and it's the it's a living culture. It's totally incredible. So Egypt is a big inspiration. I felt called to go for a really long time. But aesthetically, it is, you know, yeah, but not even from an aesthetic thing. It was just like in the pit of my stomach, I'm like, this is a place that I want to go. And I knew I really wanted to go in a spiritual way. So a friend found another friend who was leading these trips. She was trained as a high priestess. I went on this trip. The first year was 2021. And I got so into it, I became like a voracious student. And we go there in a really extraordinary way, which is with private access to the temples, which temples, a lot of them. There's like 12 total. And each of them are accessed at either 4 or 5 a.m. And sometimes you're driving two hours to get to them. So sometimes you're waking up at 3 o'clock in the morning in order to start. No, I have to say it's, it's extraordinary because you're going in there with such reverend. There's another place it's insane. One of my favorite places, one of my favorite temples in Egypt is Abidos. It's the Osirian temple. A lot of people don't go there. It's in the middle of nowhere. It's a pain in the neck to get there. It's boiling hot even in the spring time. It's a powerful temple because it's all about death. Osiris is all about like taking us down. And when you do this, this trip in Egypt, it's truly like a rebirthing process. But also in my trips through Bali, I started really understanding the force of some of these dark, powerful goddesses like Kali and Durga. And there's so much to learn. And this is just a mirror and a reflection of what happens to us when we start that deep descent. And we go into our own darkness and bring it back up. So basically what I'm talking about are all these trips that sort of provide a context and a container to do that. Well, you said to me, I don't really want to talk about Bali. Just talking about Bali, is it a bit basic? And I said, absolutely not. And I think it's really worth talking about Bali. So what's just remarkable about Bali is that when you take a step off the plane and you close your eyes and you open your senses to what's there, you will come into contact with the largest widest, softest arms of the mother goddess on planet earth. Bali is pure mother radiating pure soft nurturing. People feel so good there. Even my brother who's like kind of hardcore. He's a surfer. He used to go there when he was young, he would come back like hypnotized by Bali. People, it's a real thing. And it's not going to go away because of the tourists and the sort of swarm that's there and all the books and the excitement that's like the crowds. What's what I've figured is or what I've learned is that the key to this is finding your way in. And you need to find your way in with locals and people who are doing things in a very humble way and in a way that's very connected to the traditions of the land. And that's probably what you were saying also about Australia. You know, it's a thing about like that as well when places become spiritual destinations. There are operators that can commoditize that in a really harmful way. So it's like how are you finding the right practitioners, the stewards of these traditions? Because I think that people are skeptical of that and skeptical for good reason. Yeah. How do I do this? I mean, I'm not really doing this rationally or logically. I'm really using a lot of intuition. I'm using a lot of like my own like close my eyes tap in, you know, make an intention and then see what pops up as I'm scrolling on Google. You know, there's a lot of like a magic sometimes to the algorithm. And I've really now developed a rolodex and it's sort of just address book personal address book of friends who have become or healers who have become friends. Those are the kind of people that I will go and seek out. The reason I even got to Bali was because I was dating a chigong guy and he, you know, of course, had his his thing there. And what was so cool was that when I was visiting him, his friends were like the local priest. We would go to their home, have a very simple meal, eat with our hands, sit on the floor and then they would open up the water temples at midnight. And like a group of five would go in and get blessings inside the water temples. I mean, phenomenal. Very few people would know, but you had your birthday party under a waterfall on Lake Como. Very few people understand that there is like a very beautiful waterfall kind of beyond a bridge. Sometimes it's covered in wisteria. In Como. Yeah. I adore Lake Como. And I, we love Pasalakwa. We do. We really do. We love Grand Hotel Tremetzel. We love all All of the elegance and the riva boats and the sophistication, but George Clooney's pad, the whole situation, but it was really cool to connect with that corner of Italy. I love to go in the lake. Number one, February, March, April. It's freaking awesome. - I know, we jumped in together. - I love SEST with that. - Yeah, we were both at the opening of Pasalacqua, which is the hotel of our great friend Valencia de Santis, who is also a fan of Double J, and you did the pool area full of prints, and it was kind of an extraordinary night that really led, I think, to so many great things. But yeah, she's one of, I think, maybe, she's not dissimilar age to me, and I think one of, if not the best hotelier of her generation. - She really is. And she's managed to create a real community, and it's not because the hotel is extraordinary, it has all of the amenities, it's beautiful, but actually, I'd say this on the day that it opened, it's had this very rare thing of the day that it opened, it was a classic, and it's because she's so warm, and her team reflects that in such a beautiful, Italian hospitality way. For me, it feels like a very Italian hotel, and she's similar to a lot of these women that you've created and cultivated around you, basically, first in Milan, right? And those were a lot of women from the fashion and design world, and you dressed them in the Double J, and it became, you built a community around the brand, rather than a top-down, it's become this kind of equal sharing thing, which I think is the hallmark of the brand, right? - Yeah, it really is, and I think what you're referring to, when you talk about Valentin and Pasalacqua, it feels like family, the best family, the family you never had, but you always wanted. - And it feels so comfortable and warm, and isn't that the energy thing that we're talking about? That's what this is, that's like the raise your vibration. It's literally that, and I feel like as time goes on, we're seeing the disintegration of so many old systems, old hotel systems, old media systems, old political systems, religious institutions. Everything is kind of having a rebrand, and like a recreation moment, and there's something really to be said by good vibes. - For sure. - A hundred percent. And understanding also, we're not always on our game day, like we don't always have our A game on, we're not always great, but just course correcting, all the time, and like coming back, and I mean, this has nothing to do with travel, I'm just talking really about just trying to be a better person all the time, and that's what I love about these places that I visit, because I need the windshield. I kind of visualize sometimes this like windshield wiper of my energy body, it's like, (imitates barking) and it's really, the kind of travel I love is transcendental travel. - What does that mean? - I think it's travel that induces a shift in consciousness. One thing I've noticed is that I get asked a lot of times from magazines to provide my list for this place, or list for that place, my travel picks, and all they're interested in is where I'm gonna shop, where I'm gonna eat, and where I'm gonna sleep. - That's all fun, and I understand. - I don't really know, I'm not asking any of those things. - Exactly, exactly. - But those are the typical questions, and I think that, you know, and by the way, I'm in the business of selling merchandise, so I'm not anti-shopping. I just really think that what I am most attracted to when I'm traveling is connecting with places that are going to expand my awareness and my consciousness, and I'm deeply interested in sacred sites and traditions, local traditions. I would say, Sardinia is like one of the biggest eye openers I've had on that, it was right in my backyard in Italy. - It's the only region in Italy that I've never been to. - Exactly, because why would we go because we've only seen those terrible yachts in Porto Testa. - Well, I always say that it smells like money and gasoline. - To Italy. - It's like our worst nightmare, and who knew a 20-minute drive from Porto Testa is the most adorable town called San Pentaleo. It looks like an arts and crafts village like in remote Mexico. Capotesta up on the north, just like maybe like an hour drive from there has some of the most unique rock formations you've ever seen in your life. I highly recommend going in the off season, so not June, July or August. I went over Christmas and years, it was freezing and raining, I loved it, it was amazing. And there's this thing called the Valley of the Moon and the rock sculptures, and it's not just there, it's all over Sardinia, you'll notice, but the rocks take on the shape of animals and beasts and creatures. It's the most otherworldly, beautiful thing you've ever seen. And then on top of it, there's all these archeological sites, the date back 5,000 years. Super, super powerful. I went to a place called the Polta de Santa Cristina, which is like an ancient well, again, water, where you descend in stairs underground. It was so potent, David, you have no idea. And I've been going recently to a lot of these sites that are called the Tombe de Gigante, the Giants Tooms. And people are thinking, oh, these must just be funerary places. But some friends of mine, I go to these places now, not in organized retreats, but just more relaxed with my friends, my spiritual sisters, who are just tapped in. We go, sometimes we hop over a lot of fences to get into places, which is what happened last time. And you tune in and you can really see that these were places for ceremony. And a friend of mine has a house there. She met this woman in Caliore, whose job it is now to sort of promote all of this completely underground, underserved, unknown heritage of Sicily. It's brick and phenomenal. It's off the charts at Lantian. How does a place like that inspire the clothes then that you design? Well, first of all, did you know that on May 1st, I need to get the exact name, but there's a parade that happens every year in the south of Sardinia where they have all of these incredible costumes. I mean, it looks almost like Eastern European. It almost looks Balkan in its reference. So-- Because it's a very inland culture, actually. Oh, my gosh, it's incredible. One of the places that I remember you traveling to that for a long time, I just had absolutely no desire to go to, even if I love the country that it's in, which is Turkey. But I've never had a desire to go to Capitokia, because, yes, it's beautiful with 1,000 hot air balloons. And that's kind of-- But then, again, it just must be rammed with people. So I was really surprised when you told me that you wanted to talk about Capitokia. First of all, Turkey is such a vibe. It's really a vibe. I would go just for the yogurt. They're, honestly. And they want to be sure you know that their yogurt is better than Greece. Well, they want to be sure in many ways. But I think it might be, actually. Well, I've never tasted anything like that in my entire life. It was probably the best breakfast I've ever had in my life was in Capitokia. It's not a hot take to say that Turkish food beats out Greek food. Oh, OK. I don't think. OK. Well, I'm going to probably think-- We love our Greek food. We love Greek food. We love Greek food. But Turkish food is something else. Oh, my God, it's so good. Because it pulls in the east, it pulls in those other traditions. And Capitokia, I always forget that it's quite far east in the country. It really is. And I could totally see what you're talking about with the cartoonish tourist elements of it. This became a-- it was a retreat. It was a spirituality. That transforms everything. When you go in there and you want to tap into something deeper, if you're just going and you're looking around with your 3D eyes, yeah. That's going to be a really annoying. If you're closing your eyes and you're tapping into what's going on underneath the ground and what's happening energetically and you're meditating in caves, that can be a very, very different experience. So that's what I kind of mean by that transcendental travel is going in and finding a different point of entry and a new portal. And I really believe that this will be a more common thing that people are doing. I'm starting to see a lot of healers and teachers who are wanting to take trips to these places. You're doing-- We certainly see that. I mean, I am constantly struggling with who is real, who is drawing a modality, an authentic modality from a particular tradition. I do think that there's a lot of fakeness there. Yeah, there really is. And you know what the number one sort of test is? How is this sitting in your stomach? But some people aren't even connected to that. You're very connected to it. And I think this is kind of the beauty of the brand. And you, in so many ways, is that your energy, in general, in life, and energy for you. for learning and the new, and also understanding and respect for tradition allows you to be a conduit and kind of life coach to people that are curious, right? - Yeah, I really enjoy that. I've always said I wanna be a life coach. Meanwhile, now I have a life coach and it's been a game changer. I always meet at a life coach. - I went to Turkey last year with my friend, Shiloh Engelbrecht. - Oh my God, my favorite. Shiloh is an old friend of mine from Australia. And we've, yeah, strangely, we've been in a few different destinations, the three of us actually. One of which was my 40th birthday, which was in Andalusia. - That was the most remarkable birthday party. It was fantastic. I think that kind of an event where you're treating us to all of your insider information, but again, not shopping. It's truly the experience of what, you know, it was just, it was so remarkable, David. - We had it during the fair, that the fair of April, the Ferry Adir, but it was in Seville and we stayed at a friend of mine to tell outside of Seville, called Trassiara, which we took over and it was, yeah, it was a magical, a magical weekend. And then it showed up a couple of years later in some inspiration for one of your collections. - Oh my God, 100% did. And so has Egypt and so has Ireland, which is a place that I went to last. - What about, how did it show up with Ireland? - So Ireland, I went to last August. - How many days were we there? I think like 14 days, we were traveling every day. I don't recommend traveling every day. I would spend a little bit more. - Even if it's a tiny country. - Even if it's a tiny country, but we were going all over, we hit every stone circle. And you know what's incredible there? The dolmens, have you ever gone in, what they are literally, these rock formations, 5,000 years old, you can't even imagine how they've positioned these enormous monolithic stones in a position that is like a cabin almost. And they're like rocket chip, alien galactic portals. - I found a book there one time in Dublin, which was like the fairies of, like the garden fairies or the woodland fairies and its all illustrations of the different like fairy plants because there's a big, you know, it might sound like, oh, whatever, but there is a big belief system and tradition around that in our-- - Our bus driver, who was no way in connection to the trip, believed in fairies. - No, there's a mournful beauty there, but then and also in a kind of optimism and-- - They're wonderful. I loved Ireland and I had done Scotland the year before. - So these are all places, Cappadocia, Ireland, Scotland, Sardinia, Sicily, we didn't even get into Sicily and our love for Etna. - Well, yeah, I mean, we should say first point and I-- - We met in Sicily. - Well, we met in Sicily, but we met under Etna. - Yeah, and you know what, mama Etna? I trust that volcano with my life. - The thing about Etna and Sicily in general is that there's a lot of riffraff. There's a lot of rundown buildings. It's not magically groomed and glorious, like the rest of many parts of Italy, like Tuscany, what you'll find, but you just have to be patients a little bit like Puglia. You know, you have to go and be really pinpointed at it. Etna is an extraordinary experience. I've got an incredible guide named Mirto that's taken me up to the top. I've hiked three times to the top. Two times during which it was erupting and you can go up there when it's erupting. It's extraordinary. It's like across the street, you will see lava popping up. It's nuts. - What do you think is the next place for you to kind of discover in terms of another realm? - You mean other than Uluru? - Other than Uluru. 'Cause we're gonna do that together and then you can come back and we can talk about that. - Yeah, I would say South America. - Really? - Yeah. - Where's drawing you? - I feel like it's gonna be Peru. - Uh huh. - And I mean that's literally just like the stomach answer. I don't really even have an, you know, I'd been to Brazil and spend time in the jungle. We're gonna open probably some stores in Brazil but in terms of my transcendental travel and I'm really feeling is Peru. - I mean I think that the beauty of travel and the complexity and diversity of the world is that you could keep going in your pursuit of becoming an expert or knowledgeable about all of these different traditions that are related to spirituality. You could keep going forever and ever and ever and not even, not even in broad brushstrokes. We're talking, you know, that is the complexity and beauty of like our shared experience I think. (upbeat music) Okay, so I do this to everyone and I talk to them with some quick questions and answers. So where have you felt most at home? - Milan is my home but it's really double J's home and I feel like my home is in a cave, next to a redwood tree and next to a waterfall. And I'm very happy actually to live modestly. I would live in a tree like the Bamboo Inda Hotel in Bali is one of my favorite hotels because they have all those extraordinary tree houses that you sleep in. If I just had like two rooms in a tree, I'm super good for the rest of my life. - Well, I'd climb up the tree and hang with you. I know you would and most out of place. - China. - Where would you always return? - Egypt. - Where would you never go back? - Moscow, I wasn't into it. - What about hotel? You mean my favorite? - Yeah. - Bamboo Inda. - What's a meal or taste you'd like to experience again? - A California chop salad. (laughing) - You know, getting that in Milan. - I'm not getting that in Milan. - What about like museum cultural institution? - The Lonecki. - Okay, so favorite shop. You can-- - Ever? - Well, you know what, I'm gonna just answer this for you. - Okay. - You're allowed to sing as though you've just opened a store of Madison Avenue to say-- - Oh, I like to plug it. - Well, no, I'm gonna plug it in this instance. And I don't think it's a plug. I think, you know, it's extraordinary, it's an extraordinary reflection of you and everything that you've achieved. So I'm vetoing you and saying lighthouse on '69. So I also ask everyone this. And again, it's your, the first answer is the right answer. And forget about constraints of life. Wherever you are, or how much time you have, or how much time it takes to get there. So-- - Okay. - Where would you most like to spend a weekend? - Como. - What about a week? - Sedona. - Month? - I really wanna go to a ranch in Montana. - And yeah. Sri Lanka. - And the final question. What are you traveling through right now? - Oh my gosh. Do you want that to be one word? - No, okay. - No, okay. It's however you take it. I'm traveling through the complexity of being in a very dense, physical body and world with a company that is seemingly superficial. While at the same time having all of this more, I would just say expansion, energetically, spiritually, emotionally, that I would really like to start to merge and bring down and integrate into the physical. So I feel like I'm traveling through a multidimensional kind of storm, and I'm really looking forward to embodying and integrating it. If that makes sense, at all. - Sometimes you don't make any sense at all, and then all of a sudden you make perfect sense. And I think that's the beauty of you.