Jing Daily: The Craft of Brand Collaborations

From consumer insights across the world to the latest tactics and trends you're listening to leap into luxury, the go-to marketing podcast for luxury brands. I'm Natalie and today we're talking to Sadie Bajeron, collapse and drop sedative for Jing Dailey, the leading media authority reporting on the forces shaping luxury in China. Sadie, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me here. A good place to start is kind of describing what you would define as a fruitful or successful collaboration. I imagine you see them every day in your role. So what would you say is the kind of magic recipe? This is super broad because I think there are so many different ways that a collaboration can be successful and it just depends what your aim is of the collaboration. I think success kind of comes from for a lot of brands when they're starting out they want exposure so they might want to tap into like larger luxury houses or independent designers want to work with luxury houses for the exposure and also the economic benefits like you have a lot more freedom to do things that you might not have the budget for. So I think for like an independent designer maybe a successful collaboration would be one that got them more reach or gave them a platform to be more creative and a freedom to do something like a bigger project that they would never have been able to do. And I suppose that works as well for brands collaborating with other brands too. You're kind of breaking into a whole new pocket of audience I guess. That's like the first thing that people think about when they're strategising their collaborations is like how can we broaden our reach? Yeah. So whether that's like tapping into a new subculture or literally getting more reach like I think a lot of the H&M collaborations probably wouldn't happen if H&M wasn't such a big name because it's not the most popular brand and like not a lot of people want to be associated with H&M. I think all of that they do a lot of designer collaborations and I think that main reason that they actually manage to is like a lot of the time is because of the exposure that they give. I mean you've just mentioned that they do it a lot and we've seen it a lot as well more so in recent years than ever before. I mean I know that brand collabs aren't something that's that's new to the scene but certainly is picking up in frequency and volume lately. I mean why do you think brand collabs are becoming more common these days? I think the money side is actually one of the like it's a bit horrible but I think it is actually just it's honestly a lie. People want money. Yeah. Honestly I actually think when I speak to brands or smaller like a couple of my friends that have their own little brands and I think they do a lot of sportswear collaborations because they don't have the budget to have a massive stock like they kind of up their offering. Yeah I think that makes sense as well and you know it also like so from the from the smaller brand perspective collaborating with these massive brands it gives them the opportunity to to invest in that kind of mass production and then from the bigger brands point of view they've got the opportunity to do something a bit fresher like it can be when I do see the draw for both parties. Yeah that's the main thing I think it's innovation and like new creativity and doing something that you actually can't do in house like entering new product categories I think is one of the major reasons that a lot of people do collaborations. A lot of brands are like straaddling loads of industries now so in a way to do that is by like new product categories and entering different subcultures. That's true I suppose as well I mean social media surely allows for more of these collapse these days where you've got things like organic virality and engagement from users on different platforms that are saying you know you did a good job this was great and there's kind of a low investment there on social media as opposed to someone marketing a collab in you know traditional media methods that it means they can do it a lot easier now. Yeah for a lower investment. Yeah exactly. I mean even like if you can do a joint Instagram post now kind of yeah exactly. So yeah you can collaborate literally on a video with a creative or like on some artwork and then you're inviting their fan base into your kind of realm. It's a lower financial commitment but arguably still a big risk if it goes wrong though. I think because the consumers are so savvy if it's not done authentically it can be a risk it can backfire and there are examples where that's like you know you get the ick if something just doesn't feel like it suits the brand. You do that you do. You see someone doing something you're like hold on that doesn't that doesn't resonate with me and I feel like I have a relationship with this brand and it's just not sitting right but then like conversely if it's if it's done really well it can make you fall more in love with the brand or introduce you to a brand you weren't aware of before I don't know. One of the major things that I've noticed as a benefit of collaboration is how it can accentuate things that are existing within a brand already so a signature style or something can then be accentuated as they're like how signature when it's being reinterpretated by different creatives. Yeah or even a part of the brand culture where you might see that brand all the time but the brand hasn't actually recognised that it's being worn in those. Yeah that's so interesting. And then we've harvested a stellar art art collaboration and I think that like a lot of skateboarders love like drinking stellar art like having a bit that was like a really fun way to tap into the culture that was already existing. Yeah so they can act sort of as a catalyst to measure the strength of a brand by seeing if it can combine with another brand identity or with a designer identity and still be recognisable in its own right. Yeah which is quite amazing actually. It is really cool. Do you think there's a way to kind of distinguish between brands that are authentic and notistic and collaborative in their collaborations and those that are doing it more for the PR? I think it's getting quite tricky to even notice because I don't think a lot of luxury brands even care whether they're being seen as authentic if they're going take sort of viral and loads of jenziers are wanting to talk about them or even through just like a meme that's seen as successful now. So yeah I don't I think like long term wise it like you do need authenticity and I think it is quite obvious because you get the loyal followers of certain streetwear brands and now becoming a bit mad at some of their favorite brands that are getting too trigger happy with the collaborations that you just bring them out constantly because everyone's like oh this is not as exclusive anymore. I guess you also kind of completely lose your own brand identity if you're constantly doing collaborations what is then your brand identity? you're just a vehicle for these. That's well the best collaborations actually bring out your identity because it touches on little points that you might not have recognised. For example sustainability if you really want to talk about your ethos in-house and really accentuate that that's something that you care about you might want to do more sustainable partnerships. Yeah it is so refreshing in this room to hear that authenticity is not like the number one goal. Every luxury brand that we talk to or that we meet because as our previous listeners we'll know we talk about authenticity being a buzzword a lot here and it's nice that you can just sort of sit here and be like people want money and they want results and they want the data back that people are interested in what it is that they're posting and stuff which is amazing. So when you see the likes of Manolo Blanick and Birkenstock emerging styles have you seen that that little sandal cut? Yes. But you see also Nike and Deore collaborating on trainers. It also enables creative flexibility for these brands to momentarily stray away from the rigid lanes that they've had to maintain their status I guess and it can open this door into expressing themselves through things that they're less committed to and it can just be playfully dabbled in like streetwear, fashion and momentary trends in a way that's totally unexpected by consumers. But when you see a collab like Nike by Tiffany and I'm sure you've probably seen these trainers where whether isn't that element of creative expression or shock factor that drives up those likes and that's social engagement or what have you it can actually backfire and have a bit of a negative effect on brand sentiment which which I believe Tiffany found happened after after that drop. So do you think that brand collab is here to stay or are these iconic fashion houses at risk of diluting their brand and pushing away their loyal customer following in an attempt to reach new audiences to to you know get reaction from Gen Z. Yeah that's a good question. Thank you. I think I think that in certain circumstances it works like when you mentioned Deore Nike. Yeah that does really work because Deore has its own sportswear offering and streetwear offering already. So to be associated with Nike and sportswear in general is actually exactly what it wants in need for to get customers to come and shop that. I was going to mention the Louis Vuitton Supreme collaboration in 2017. Yeah. Louis Vuitton sued Supreme because Supreme released like an unofficial collaboration. And Louis Vuitton, yeah in 2000. See him the booth today. And so that in the year 2000 Louis Vuitton did not want to be associated with Supreme. It didn't agree with that collaboration. I mean it was done unofficially. Yeah and that just shows how much how far luxuries come because in 2017 Kim Jones did release like an official collaboration with Supreme. And I think James Jebbia worked directly with Kim Jones on that collection. and so it just shows that in 2017, Louie Vittorla actually really wanted to appeal to skaters and it wanted to be part of the streetwear conversation. I feel like high-low crossovers just work now in the landscape that we have. Is that what we're calling them high-low crossovers? I do quite like that. Maybe. I don't know how low, I don't know what it says. A low-to-peer-low. I love super-eat-low. That's the thing. It gives you a chance or it gives these brands a chance to just have a little play in a different arena. But there is a risk factor involved then. It's things like, as you say, these high-low collapses that what we call them high-low. I mean, I think supreme's still quite high-low. It's a high-low. It's a high-low. It's a high-low. It's a high-low. Yeah. It's a high-low. It's a high-low. I'm higher. I don't know. I've seen a cues outside the store. I don't know. I guess the objective is always to leverage each of the brand's strengths. I do think that was a collaboration that worked particularly well in that regard. They complemented one of the product offerings to consumers. That kind of pooling of expertise for the two brands created not only BUS, but it allowed the brands to tap into one another's consumer basis and strengthen the connections with their existing consumer basis as well. So they're kind of borrowing from one another's consumers as well as like building with their own. And that's a really good example of a brand that did it well. When it comes to delivering to both those existing loyal customers and appealing to new generations, I know we kind of spoke about Gen Z earlier. And the set to account for 40% of global luxury spending by 2023, according to Bain and Co. And they say they're going to contribute to 130% of market growth between now 2025. Do you think there are people who are bridging that gap well and reaching those new audiences at the moment through collaboration? Yes. Yeah. I think that is one of the key reasons that a lot of luxury brands are having to do collaborations is so that they can reach and connect with Gen Z because I don't think that like historically these luxury houses were really made for kids. Like when they're. We're calling them kids, but like. I know. It's just because I'm trying to connect to me. Thank you. Oh, there you go. The little kids. There is a level of accessibility as well through these collaborative kind of products that are high-low products. I'm adopting that. Yeah, do it. Let's make it fair. I don't know if I think super easy to low, but I feel like high low is more like a rich new respect for such. Yeah, that's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But there is a level of accessibility from a lower price point that comes out of these collaborations and the products that come out of the industry. Yeah, exactly. And that can then introduce a luxury brand to a new consumer. So it gets the miceposed through the door or on board with who the brand is. But then there is a perceived cheapening of a brand that in existing customers' eyes when trying to appeal to that different audience that could be viewed as a bit risky. So there is kind of this, you know, it's important to bring Gen Z into the discussion and to be speaking back to them. But is that at the risk of losing your already very loyal audience by kind of jumping on a trend that Gen Z might like on TikTok? Yeah, I think. I think Gamer came to mind when we were talking about Gen Z because Goot's here is done a collaboration with Roblox. Oh. I think it was Balenciaga did for my. Yeah. And Lensyaga, they also did the Simpsons. Yeah. Do you see that? That was fun. I feel like as a brand. That was a fun time. I think as a brand Balenciaga is really good at finessing like meme fashion. Yeah. But they're quite streetwear anyway, though. Yeah. So when you take the look at kind of the high-end brands that are fancy, fancy versus Balenciaga Balenciaga can get away with these collapse because it is edgey already. They're less tailored. Yeah. They're not as the silhouette's a bit different for sure. It's more forward-linking. I think like that Manolo that Berk and Stort received a really bad backlash and it didn't do very well. Really? I think it performed well, of course, because both brands have very solid followings and I feel like there was a market for the sandals and even did like them. But a lot of people were really angry. They were like, I can't believe that the brands collaborating with Berk and Stort because they associated with really high-end luxury. It's just such a different aesthetic as well. I think, you know, we spoke earlier about the Dior and the Nike collaboration. But it doesn't feel like such a jump aesthetically for me, whereas the Berk and Stort one, it's a bit more, I don't know, I just found it more different. Yeah. So we bring up the Pringles by Kaviar Company collab that we were doing because that was actually a sweeping success and it's exactly how it sounds. It was weird, but it was something that was born out of an organic TikTok trend where people would like basically requesting that Kaviar Company collab with Pringles. So they did it. It was a response to something that people were already demanding and it was like a wild thing that nobody expected. But they reacted really quickly and benefited from it. Did it taste good? That's what I mean. I don't know. I have no idea. Fishy Pringles. I'm not sure. I don't know that. But it's rogue. But in that instance, it was already something that these consumers wanted. Yeah. But that is definitely a high low combination of friends right there. I guess, like, a good question is, why do you think Gen Z in particular is so kind of obsessed as a strong word? It really seems to respond well to brand collaborations. Why do you think that is? I think a lot of it is the exclusivity and they love hype and resale culture has done really well over the past couple of decades, I think, in particular. And I don't want to go too much into streetwear, but yeah, I think that stuck here is like deep up. All of these places are just full of the collaborations because they instantly sell out. I think they have a lower inventory as well to drive the exclusivity of them. And then also it's just that excitement now, I think. And social media is so busy that you need to do something that's going to strike up a conversation and then shock that. Yeah, and I think the weirder, the better. But now it's kind of… Yeah, exactly. But I think there was a time when it was Fendi and Versace did that collaboration and Gucci and Balenciade. But I think we're kind of leaving that era now. It doesn't shock us to anymore. Yeah. I think like competitive brands can collaborate and it's just, yeah, that is good marketing and you can do something fun, but it's not necessarily going to break the internet anymore. It makes sense from the brand. Those kind of things make sense from the brand's perspective. I get it. You know, they can really enhance one another's aesthetics and take it to new places as well as split the marketing costs, although whether that's too much for concern for Versace or not, too much for a whole new world. I think especially in a culture or a generation like Gen Z that's grown up in such a fast culture, the virality of more unexpected collaborations probably is going to be the future, I think. That's why Supreme does their collaborations really well because they literally have done them with pretty much every household object. Every household name. Is it too much? Are we like, is there a risk of them sort of, you know, ruining the buzz themselves by doing too many of these things for the absolute thing? I mean, I have a friend who works at a brand and he said that a lot of the collaborations that he gets through by email, it's not really a thought process, it's more of a, is that cool? I get out of it. It's not like authentically overthinking exactly what this strategy is, do you know? But I think sometimes you do have to do that if you want like long term impacts because a lot of collaborators now do long term partnerships and that's where the most cult pieces have come from. Yeah, like the Adidas Wells Bonner, that's now become a long term partnership that literally sells out as soon as it is released. But when that was first started, it was successful but it wasn't to the extent of now and I think it's like keeping it in mind to know. It's really interesting actually because a lot of heritage brands have been building up their own identity, their own style, you know, who they are for decades and decades. They're kind of risking that individuality a little bit by collaborating for stunt purposes, for likes, for engagement, for press coverage to try and get a hold of Gen Z's attention or the attention of these social media natives. And it's quite interesting because that says to me that there's clearly a disconnect right now between heritage houses and Gen Z. And the question is I suppose like why do you think that is? Why do you think the heritage houses or these luxury brands are trying so hard to get Gen Z's attention? They obviously need Gen Z's attention because that's the next generation of luxury consumers. And especially, I mean obviously I cover the Chinese market a lot and in China, luxury brands have quite a specific strategy to target younger audiences and you can see they release quite a lot of very playful collaborations that they might not do over here or in the West in general. Like Fendi did a Haiti collaboration which is like a bubble tea brand. And I don't think Fendi would do that. in the West, but because I personally think it's probably because the young luxury consumer in China is literally driving the industry now and it's I think it makes up like 40% or something of luxury purchases. I think it's important as well and not only you know not only are they the future of you know luxury and they're going to represent increasingly the majority share of the market. We are coming out of the back of a very difficult economic time. Well I say coming out of that was maybe a bit optimistic. I still very much in it. Yeah. We're in the middle of and I think these businesses have a responsibility to consider new avenues of income even if it doesn't align with their current audience as expectations you know. Ultimately these are businesses and in order to survive they do need to keep reaching new people growing their audiences and growing their market share and sometimes that means adapting like brands are always evolving audiences are always evolving and it's to be expected if you don't evolve you're going to die so these brands do have a responsibility to do that and I guess collaborations is one way. Yeah and I think luxury houses need to acknowledge that Gen Z and younger demographics aren't seeing their brands or meeting their brands in the generic ways that we might have or even older generations did when they first met Chanel or Gucci or Balenciaga they're meeting them through their Simpson's collaboration or through like a viral plastic bag that's worth like two grand. Yeah. So much noisier though like you know you you mentioned how you know maybe we met them like I think there was a lot less brands back then you know so of course we we know Dior from when we were kids or you know Chanel or whoever there's now like thousands and thousands of brands I guess you have to make a bit more of a splash to be noticed. Yeah it's true. These kind of new needs from from this generation of consumers are fueling what changes are happening in the luxury market definitely and I suppose specifically in China as you mentioned are Chinese brands are rising competitor to Europe's key players as Gen Z are setting their sights on these emerging designers and kind of up and coming trends. Chinese brands are definitely having a moment there's been a lot of collaborations as we're on that topic there have been a lot of independent designer collaborations with a lot of mainstream global players like Ark with Feng Cheng Wang and they also did a collaboration with StarFone Lee which is a brand that shows a lot of fashion week and a lot of these independent designers are finding their position in like the mainstream industry through these collaborations but I wouldn't say their competitors just yet maybe in 10 years or so like we don't know what is gonna happen yeah I think in terms of sports wear yes but maybe not so much in luxury fashion yeah because Ante is like the biggest sportswear brand in China and Leaning is doing really well and I can add it as I've come across a lot of controversies and yeah so I think Western brands have a harder time navigating the Chinese market because China is known for being quite unforgiving in terms of boycotting brands and Nike has struggled a lot and I think this year Nike's managed to do quite a few local collaborations to kind of soften up its reputation I think and what the market what the modern consumers is demanding at the moment they want something that's more personable they want something that represents their own lifestyle and the way that they live and actually speaks to the more and more personal level and that's worldwide that's worldwide kind of shift that consumers are having so so there really is a question there about are you really speaking to each individual person across the globe with just one one activation or one or one creative yeah I think that you know there are some really good examples where these big global heritage brands have actually considered the local community when they're releasing a collaboration I don't know if you saw the Dior Lady Art Bag they did an amazing design which was in partnership with the Saudi Arabian artist Manal Aldoayan and that bag was released exclusively in the Middle East and it performed really well and I think like the idea behind that and the consideration it showed the local market was why it performs so well do you think that when brands are considering market specific brand partnerships that support their global collaboration strategy they should kind of put that local market at the forefront so they feel seen and understood by global brands that's actually such a crucial thing to touch on because a lot of brands have really localized strategies like Adidas for one is so good at it like it literally did a collaboration with a Dubai sandwich shop or something I always saw that yeah that was amazing and they do because I'm always following what's going on in China they're constantly sussing out who's doing really well in streetwear and then I'll find this brand and they don't have a big following and then we chat them the messaging app in China and we'll start talking and then they're all friends with different streetwear brands and then it's actually such a tight-knit community and I'm just wondering how Adidas has such a good strategy that they managed to tap into these pockets of some cultures and I think it's a really great way to show that you can really care about your consumer base because for one like Adidas has such a global consumer base without seeming like an authentic in how it's trying to connect it is the best way to speak to local talent I think they really do put that local activation at the forefront I actually used to work on Adidas many many moons ago and we did an activation in London for originals it was an enormous activation it was not an afterthought by any stretch of the imagination it was one of the leading pieces of their UK strategy for that year and I think that is probably why it works so well because it's not just activating the global strategy it is at the forefront every market has their own individual budget and strategy to kind of reach people in an authentic way and they also listen to the advice of people in those markets they're also good as well is is it in the current climate when you have disruptors coming out left-right and centre because of the way in which you can you can reach audiences with a lot less money now and a lot more ease you can you can activate through influencers or through paid social channels and there are a lot of new up and coming startup design brands that are coming out of the woodwork is becoming a little bit more saturated and more saturated that actually what it feels like people like Adidas are doing through this localized content or really specific creative that reaches a specific group of people yeah actually feels like they're getting on the offensive there a little bit and they're doing something in advance of this risk of disruptors coming through and giving these people this personable experience that they need it actually feels really smart it feels like a future proof strategy yeah I think it's showing support yeah streetwear players or sportswear brands and like luxury houses are showing support of different designers as well I think that's the main thing at now community is such a large part of brand strategy that it has to come into collaboration totally and it's about I suppose enhancing that experience and and experience is something that that we talk about a lot in this room as well because the modern consumer they want to feel like they're experiencing something different and they're experiencing a brand and what they're getting from that brand is more than just a sales message but it's like something that they can take with them and grow from and and you know something that they excites them and there's a trend of collapse that's happening at the moment between product brands and hospitality groups as well I mean why do you think that that is you've got the lights of Prada Cafe and Harrods for example I mean why do you think that's a specific collapse trend that we're seeing a lot more these days yeah I actually recently was doing a lot of research on luxury brand hotels so because a lot of luxury houses now have their own hotels to kind of offer that immersive experience into their brand it really builds brand loyalty but the photo opportunity is the main thing right like that Prada Cafe everything even from like the froth on the coffees yeah so we're getting such real answers from you like anyone that we'd speak to a brand right now would be like it is just about you know getting our story across we're really like we want it on the ground I mean there's nothing wrong with that I think it's that's part of it still show it's sharing the story yeah I think it has to come from an authentic place they can't just create this gorgeous like castle or something and then just stick their brand on it it had to come it has to kind of like really accentuate the existing brand image and identity and that's when it's done well because like with the luxury brand hotels the designs on like the headboard of the beds are designed by the Bulgari hotel so it's very personal and it's down to every touch so I think it has to be very kind of 360 it can just be like a fancy fun cafe that you're doing so that they get on TikTok yeah it has to have a story and surprise people I think as well and it's a connect people with the brand in a way that you can't get through watching an ad ball through being served an ad on on TikTok or on Instagram it's it's a good way of building up that long-term brand loyalty because like you said at the beginning of this whole discussion it's it's harder to do that now with the modern audience it's harder to kind of reach them at a place where they're un diagram general ni i ddiad, ac ond ddim yn katant wedi ond iutwch samoedd hynny. 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