Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner

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Savings compared to renewal price going to Florida. - We are completely misdirected. - Yeah. - Even when you're holding onto something as solid as a deck of cards. - 'Cause you talked about how just fallible memory is, and to this day, I've been trying to think about how you did that, and I just have no idea. I have no idea where I was tricked or where I'm not remembering or where that happened. I just, I have no idea. - I've seen him do the thing with the glass, where the glass just moves over. It's probably the simplest thing, but I fucking love it. - Or the straw floats out and the straw's floating. - I mean, I'd never seen a magic show before. - Yeah. - I really hadn't even seen card tricks. - Yeah, not a lot of people have. They've seen videos of it, but seeing it in person is way different 'cause you're always, you're one step removed on video. So it's like watching a stage show. - Right. - And you go, "Oh, there's smoke and mirrors. "There's trap doors." - Yeah. - But then when it's in front of you, all those variables seem to disappear and you're just left with nothing. - Yeah, closeup is crazy. - You have the frustrating, thing happen to you where your suspension of disbelief is unwilling. - Yeah. - It's not willing. You're not like, "Oh, I'll suspend it "for the sake of the trick." You're like, "No, I've exhausted my resources. "I don't know how you did that." - Yeah, on the videos, you can stop it, go back frames, try to investigate. - And you can see how I did that on video, that particular one. So there's certain tricks that you have to cut around or certain tricks that you have to do. Like if you look at mentalism, most of the stuff happens off camera. And then when the cameras are rolling, a lot of wordplay, I'll say that. We never met before today, right? You know, like these types of things. And you're like, it creates the illusion that you didn't set anything up. And then you go, "We didn't set anything up," right? But you don't know that you were set up. If you've handed me your phone before, 'cause I was doing some pre-show magic trick to you. And I did something and you're like, "Well, I blew your mind, "but now I have all this secret information on you "that I'm going to reveal throughout the next hour." And play, "Look at me and think of this thing," and do all these even performative bits, which is fine. But yeah, it's not actual mind reading. - Well, I think you have a point about the shows being in person. 'Cause I haven't felt that amount of awe in an interaction with a person since I was a kid. Like I was on the edge of my seat when you were doing those tricks and it all culminated with the plastic bar. It boggled my mind. 'Cause Luigi walked in, that's the first thing I told Luigi. - And he was like, "Oh yeah." - Yeah, been there, done that. - Speaking of which, here, I'll give you a little demo. A little demonstration, not on actual magic, but more on how magicians can use magic to obtain information. And then how that is perceived to people watching. So for instance, all right, just go ahead and just take a card out. Yep, anyone? - I gotta game out. Sorry. - Yeah, no worries. - Do you want me to hide the number from you? - Yeah, just have a look at it. You got it? Put it back. All right, at this point, there's no way any of us know what that card is. Well, sorry, you guys know. I have no idea what this card is, correct? All right. So, all right, just think of this card. Just think of it. If, this is gonna be like a bit of a poker face scenario. So I don't want you to give away any information. - Okay. - But I'm gonna try to read from your phone. Your facial expressions or your sort of micro expressions. - Mm-hmm. - Anything that I can to try and determine what the card is. Is it, don't answer it, is it red or black? So your right eye, when I said black, moved slightly. - Really? - So I'm gonna assume it's black. Is it a club or a spade? Now, okay, so now you're trying to mask it. And so it tells me it's a spade once again, okay. Now, is it a picture card or a number card? Okay. It's a number card. All right. Is it high or low? High or low? It's low. So it's a low spade. Is that correct? - Yeah. - Okay. There's a free choice. You could have chosen any card. - Mm-hmm. - All right, right here. Look at this. - My finger. - What the fuck? What the fuck? - Is that it? Four of spades? All right. So now here's the thing. So I, I didn't actually read your micro expressions. This is all performative. I already knew what card you chose. - How? - Well, there's two ways that I can know that. Either I force the card upon you or I peak the card after, right? There's two ways to do that. So if I force the card on you, even though it felt like that was a free, completely free choice, it wasn't. It felt free. It wasn't, right? So this is a force. So now you're being given the card that I want you to. - Mm-hmm. - So now that I have information that you don't know I have, I can ask you to hide that information from me. And now I can see what that looks like. - Oh, for later. - So you can read the tell. - Okay. - Correct. So now I have information on what your tells are. And this for magicians or mentalists or even CIA is really, really valuable information. So having inside information and being able to ask people questions you know the answer, you know the answers to and then seeing how they dance around the answers knowing they're trying to avoid what the truth is you can see if they're lying or if they're telling the truth so even that even the card you offered it you know that's a fresh pack yeah you opened it you cut the deck once spread it and of jokers included what 54 cards in there uh you offered me up the the one you wanted me to pick and yeah i tried to game out what you wanted me to pick and choose a different one yeah so i just don't know how i was led to pick the one card you wanted me to it blows my mind wasn't that interesting though yeah but that's that's the whole crux of the trick right because if you knew that that was even in play that i was and you suspected i was trying to force you a card so you went in different direction but if you knew that that card was forced you know that would change the dynamic of the of how i was sort of trying to read that information and so it's really interesting because you take magic and i just apply it to the whole ic you know space and i go oh my god like they're literally doing magic tricks yeah and you see it on these interviews you see it you know when you talk to them in person you know they know things but they're playing dumb yeah yeah and so you know i when i do magic tricks to these people um you know i get to see thank you thank you i get to see what their tells are before the podcast yeah and then i grill them on these questions probably shouldn't even be saying this on camera you know because they might be watching this but that's the idea right is that you get to and then now i understand yeah you know how they shift in their seat when they're trying to hide information or you know what i mean so it helps well even you you told me i was giving off micro expressions after you said that when i was answering i i felt like my eye twitching and i said oh crap am i giving it away and and you slightly were that's the thing too that's the other psychological stuff thank you very much thank you thank you thanks um yeah there is there is like a whole psychological layer to um trying to hide yeah so it's you know don't think of a black cat type idea same thing happens uh and and also there's like certain i learned this from a friend spidey he does he has this behavioral arts channel he like looks at people lying but when people scratch their nose so when you're lying it actually like increases the blood flow to your face which and this is where the pinocchio lie comes from because your nose slightly swells like on a microscopic level and so that's why people would but that doesn't mean it's a lie it could be they're just trying to dance around something else so has there ever been anybody you've had on the pod that because you're able to gauge out their micro expressions or when they're lying you have just known are feeding you a bunch of baloney um no because you can't tell what they're lying about okay you can only tell there's like some inconsistency in what they're saying so like you know like lie detectors famously aren't lie detectors right it just measures your heart rate cortisol levels yeah exactly so it's telling you oh this person is stressed you don't know what about it could be about trying to hide the truth right but it could also be about this reminds them of when they were a kid and they got beat up for saying this or yeah whatever that is I know we talked about this too. about this too. too, Jesse, just kind of guests on your pod that you felt may have been kind of taking you for a ride. We talked about that as well. And we talked about just the guests that you had the hardest time taking their story at face value was Charles Hall. For sure. Are we in the pod right now? Yeah. I didn't know. I didn't break that wall. Yeah. Well, Chris and I did Charles Hall together. Jesus, that sounds weird. But we did an interview in Charles Hall. Chris was telling Luigi and I when I was out here last time, and that's when Chris was doing impressions of some other prominent figures in the subject too, that Luigi and I were just loving. Yeah. Who's this? Who's I'm personating? Bledsoe. Luigi was cackling the whole time, man. It's just like the way he's so soft-smoking me. He's like, oh, thank you. Because I've seen so many of his videos and you just see these lights, these, I don't know what they are, but then you hear his soft voice in the background. Thank you. He's railing off at the end of the videos. Yeah. There's the kind of infamous video about the last contact of him doing that. Yeah. Yeah. He always says, cut the football chatter. Yeah. Cut the football chatter. Yeah. What do you make of that? What do you make of like, all that stuff? Well, Jesse and I were talking about this last night. You know, he is, is diehard wants to talk to Tim Taylor. Yeah. That seems to be the biggest crux. Number one. Yeah. To this puzzle. Yeah. Cause at least. That's your white whale. It is, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Think it'll happen? I, I put him on, I made a vision board and he's on it. Cut to Jesse's shrine with the handles and like, satanic. Yeah. What he can pentagram. Oh, that sounds so creepy. Cause it seems. I really wanna do it. I think. Yeah. That was. He's the intersection between trippy stuff and then real nuts and bolts Arab space, but like really trippy stuff. Not even just like UFO work. Like a lady. Like time travel. Mm-hmm. Then, you know, there's stuff. Oh yeah. The Bermuda, T. Townsend Brown stuff. Yeah. The fact that his name came up at Charles Hall thing was really interesting too. Yeah. Like Mary Therese's wife was just like, yeah, Timothy. And Bledsoe said that she, he was, was writing a book with Townsend Brown's daughter. Have you contacted her? Who was writing a book? Tim Taylor. Oh, wow. And didn't Townsend Brown's daughter leave a, like some type of Amazon review on his book? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So there is a connection there for sure. There is definitely a connection. Yeah. Have you reached out to the daughter? I ha well, she was on a phone call in my original documentary. And so we'll occasionally talk on the phone and she's fascinating. That's so wild. Yeah. He's, he's, he's just such a, I think it's more of like, he's this weird puzzle piece that you don't know where to put in the puzzle. And that's, what's so intriguing about this, this man is like, it's not necessarily how he's tied together with everything, but just like, what, like, what is his role here? He seems like this transient sort of goes wherever he wants entity. But at the same time, I get the feeling might be an experiencer from having, you know, so much, interest in the topic and talking to Strieber, um, what's his face, um, Charles Hall and all these other experiencers, Bledsoe. Um, I don't know. I don't know what to make of him. It's weird because Tim Taylor doesn't cross over into my lane of, of studying the programs at all. Like Tim Taylor's name never comes up. He's an aerospace corp. Right. Right. Yeah. NASA, but still in terms of like actual program efforts, his name has never really come up as a, as a key player ever, which is interesting because then he's sitting around with Bledsoe, but Charles Hall. Yeah. You would think that he would keep a lower profile if he was really in the, uh, in the deep part of the program. What do you think? When you shop Kroger delivery, you can expect the savings you love and fresh groceries delivered right to your door. Our refrigerated trucks, keep your items fresh while our associates are committed to getting every detail, right? Carefully selecting and packing your order with care because bringing you fresh quality groceries is what we do best. And right now enjoy $20 off your first online order of $75 or more restrictions apply. See site for details. Kroger fresh for everyone. Hi there. I am fully charged and here to tell you toy story five is now on Disney plus. It's been too long. Cowboy Woody buzz and Jesse are back for a brand new adventure with some seriously cool new tech. What? Holy butterscotch. You said it, Jesse. So save your batteries and watch the global phenomenon. I think he was part of some, well, I think the program is, uh, probably a misnomer. And I think there are probably a lot of different, you know, you have this, this phenomena, which is sort of multifaceted and then you have whatever's going on with Dan Sherman, like with the, you know, like humming a tone. Yeah, exactly. Probably preserved. That's me is definitely stepwise different than reverse engineering a craft, which is the stuff you're tracking. And so those two things are different. And then is there some sort of, you know, like looking glass style time travel thing? Like probably, you know, if you take Bob was our face value, they were at least looking at little time perturbations, you know, and then, you know, is there some group that thinks it can time travel? Like there's a, there's a, he wrote a book called, um, launch fever. Yeah. It's his autobiography. And he writes about flying back and forth, uh, from between, um, Florida and the Bahamas. And he says time moved differently there. And it's all to me, it's like all this like weird coded language, like it's Island time. And it's really strange. That's an interesting way to see it. And then as simultaneously, he's telling Chris Bledsoe's son that like, he's part of this time travel group and Townsend Brown was the president of it. And Townsend Brown always conceived of himself as a time traveler. Like I literally asked Townsend Brown, he's like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. Townsend Brown's daughter, like, what is, uh, if your father is a time traveler, what is he up to now? And she goes, she, he's probably rearranging the math on the most frontier science to make sure we don't blow ourselves up. And then you think about the UFO nukes thing is so crazy. Some sort of time traveling superhero that's saving us all from imminent doom. Also, um, did you ever ask Malmgren about Tim? So Malmgren at the end of his life was going really deep on Townsend Brown. Right. And was like, had all these like notes on him. And he, he apparently said, he said he had a, uh, foreign intelligence source that gave him, uh, uh, documentation of Townsend Brown collaborating with Tesla on some gravity stuff, which is crazy. And like, I couldn't get too much deeper than that. So, you know, I don't know. Uh, and then on Tim Taylor, I don't think I ever asked him. I, I pro I probably knowing me, I probably did. And then he probably didn't say anything. That's why I don't remember. But yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Are we all in solidarity that Malmgren was likely CIA? Yeah. I don't know enough to put them in that category, but I'll trust both of your judgment. I think, I think for sure. Yeah. Because he was in, he was talking about Primakov and Dobrynin and Pompidou, like a global stage sort of guy. And then he was at Yale and, and at Oxford before that. And then he was living at, um, he had Paul Mellon's walking stick at his apartment. And I'm holding it. Paul Mellon founded the CIA. And then he goes, my best friend, Tom Farmer or whatever. And then you look up Tom Farmer. He was the general counsel of the CIA. And of course he had IDA. It would be a big oversight not to have him in the CIA. He had IDA as kind of his knock position to the Institute for Defense Analysis. Which he literally said was a cover for his work on the National Security Council. So this whole Dedean Johnson takedown around him not working on the National Security Council, he already addressed before he died. With this other interview with Robin Laird, so. Wow. I'm still blown away that you got that interview. Yeah. I am too, man. I, it felt, uh, it felt like really like, uh. Guided? Yeah, it did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What would you guys say are the most important interviews you guys have done? I think Malmgren is probably the most important interview any of us have done. Yeah. I think one of them at least at the very top. Yeah, Malmgren is a crush for me. A crush. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I mean. I would, I would push that question off to you. Um, you've only done, you've only done a handful on camera. Yeah. I, definitely off camera stuff. Yeah. And like we talked about it beforehand, specifically about Air Force stuff. That's, that's like, that's my, uh, Tim Taylor to get specific people on camera that have worked in most programs. Um. What about you, Chris? Um, most important? Yeah. I don't know. It's hard to say. Because that would, that would mean that you would have to acknowledge that what they're saying is a sort of agreeable truth. Right. Where I'm. Or not. It has a ripple effect. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, that's true. That's true. I would say, um, I think, you know, it's going to set, people can make what they want of it. But I think Lou was a really important interview for the trajectory of my channel. Um, you know, him coming early on. To the channel, obviously got a lot of eyes on the channel. And so, you know, believe or don't believe anything Lou says, regardless of that, first of all, he, you know, he took his time to come here and be on the podcast i'll always be thankful he did that but the offset of that was now that this you know created some type of eventful thing where now people look at the podcast differently like oh this is you know he's getting big guests and so after that i was able to you know get some really interesting people even whistleblowers such as jeremy weeks come on and and so i think it was important in the trajectory of my channel and um it felt serendipitous the way it happened too i would say but jeremy weeks is another one jeremy weeks is one that uh yeah it's a trippy story yeah so it's super trippy but actually maybe um peter curry oh yeah yeah yeah i feel like that one kind of even though it did pretty well i still think it went under the radar with you know what we're proposing and what was brought forward you like it was some physical evidence it was physical evidence wild it's you know we're not it's not hearsay it's physical evidence it doesn't prove aliens but it's anomalous physical evidence that we that we have an anomalous physical evidence that's biological it's not usually you hear like oh we did mass spec on you know this material and that has isotope ratios you know whatever you're talking about a hair yeah i was pulled off the being and what what trips me out more is how it corroborates his story and not the other way around so it wasn't like he had this hair tested and they were like oh it's half asian half basque it's blonde it's immune to aids without the ccr5 gene deletion and and then he goes oh yeah you know i had a blonde and an asian naked alien in my room and that's not how it happens tested it was that story first and then you get this hair back that actually kind of corroborates what the heck this guy's saying like that for me was the big oh my god moment yeah it wasn't even like the anomalous nature of the hair it was like that it corroborated his anomalous story this is the skiff no windows no wi-fi and ideally no one quietly collecting your data in the background which brings us to your phone see most people think of their carrier as just a company that gives them bars but traditional carriers have access to way more than that your number your metadata your location patterns your account information in a world where data gets leaked sold brokered and tracked that should make everybody a little uncomfortable cape is america's privacy first mobile carrier it gives you premium reliable cell service but it's built from the ground up around privacy and security one of their features i think is genuinely wild is identifier rotation your phone has an imsi basically a unique subscriber id tied to your sim cape can rotate that identifier every 24 hours so to the network you look like a different subscriber every day they also give you two secondary text only numbers so you don't have to hand out your real number to every app website store delivery service or random form that asks for it and unlike traditional carriers that hold on to your metadata cape deletes call and text metadata after 24 hours so if you watch area 52 and you care about privacy go to cape.co slash area 52 and use code area 52 for 33 off your first six months that's cape.co slash area 52 code area 52 for 33 off your first six months thank you to cape for sponsoring this video how did you get in contact with him in the first place and did you fly him in from australia i did wow yeah flew him in from australia i got in contact with him through um uh what's his name horace drew so horace drew was the geneticist who uh who did the tests the genetic test on the hair um he's also been in and around the ufo space quite a lot he's worked with bill chocker who wrote the book hair of the alien bill chocker who's like a respected uh ufo researcher in australia and horace was also the person who introduced me to jeremy weeks um he was the one who decoded jeremy's initial binary sequence after you know um i think it was uh minimal and how she she didn't know what to do with it she it resembled binary she didn't really know how to read it took horse like a few weeks and then um yeah and then cj you know came out yeah but yeah outside of tim taylor who would like your guys's three dream guests currently living be that you guys would do anything to get on your pods okay let's do let's do one at a time okay you first oh man um no tim taylor yeah no that's already vision board thank you sir it's funny because it's either like you know i either want to interview you know people like spielberg or like you know people who are like in the like you know really clearly like know more than they let on like have you know clearly have some interesting sources i think that would be really cool and it's either that or like i always never know how to answer that because it used to be like more high signal people and now it's like you know i think my audience kind of hated on this but i love this interview i just did with this guy rolf the this doe guy he was i disagree with him about doe oversight when it comes to ufos yeah but the i like somebody who's experienced something kind of ontologically trippy but then they can also make sense of it in some greater theoretical framework so anybody like that and i felt like malmgren was like that too where you had the like meta perspective of like being able to make sense of it you were like an actor in the world you weren't just identifying with the experience in this way that right you know that's that's the only thing and you're sort of like you know i don't know like like like selling everything off experience or turn philosopher experience or turn philosopher yeah but being able to make sense of it you've experienced something really trippy yeah yeah spielberg's a good one spielberg's a great answer you could get so much value out of it out of even just asking him hey why did you include lockheed and trw in close encounters why did you have those crates yeah he probably would have some interesting answers the whole project serpo yeah tell me about the lore behind the abyss creatures yeah yeah well i mean he that was james cameron but oh oh that's yeah but still i mean spielberg was a producer yeah but spielberg was a producer on back to the future yeah right um you know and then obviously et is another one is pretty on the nose in terms of like you know them studying this being and whatnot yeah i think in that same vein if we were to stick around you know the entertainment industry i think chris carter for me would be yeah that's a good one yeah because same questions go to him in that season finale that tim taylor mentions in american uh cosmic or what's your book uh american cosmic where they're taken to the place yeah and he's like does this place look familiar and they're like well this is season finale of x files and it's an actual range so he must have had especially after that pilot episode yes yes one episode one deep throat that's that's the biggest dude it's they go to an air force base and they see testing of like light triangles blipping around and then this triangle massive you know what looks like a tr3b or yes you know military very similar very similar and after that immediately it was like freak of the week for like yeah i don't know how many seasons exactly that craft the the artwork from that i talked about this all the time was was commissioned to an art forensic artist named bill mcdonald he also designed a lot of the craft for like roswell depictions and so forth but bill mcdonald that craft he called it the xf-131 super sentinel and that was based off of a meeting with two lockheed and two northrop engineers at a denny's in antelope valley in 1992 these engineers worked out of hellendale and to home so you can look up the original artwork it's called the tahachapi triangle dated 1992 from bill mcdonald this is allegedly a real craft that's crazy and i've talked to bill mcdonald as well he won't give up the engineer's names but you know as according to him this is a real craft might have been in this diner right here there you go well the other thing about the x files is they were real you know the guy banister was this guy at the fbi ironically lee harvey oswald was working out of his building at 554 camp street oh yeah or 544 camp street in uh new orleans which is crazy but he is the x files guy he was the guy like uh this guy fred chrisman worked under him he was another fbi guy who showed up at the maury island incident which was literally like adjacent to the kenneth arnold sighting which was another ufo experience where somebody said his dog got killed by ufo slag coming down or whatever yeah so this is weird so yeah it's your point like the x files was a thing he's paying homage to this real thing yeah yeah and then i mean even you look at nick pope who was you know kind of the the scully or the molder of of uh the uk at the ufo desk for the mod which is interesting too he had a 1-800 number essentially it was like this phone number that you would call in and you know i don't know what to make of that i didn't know what to make of that when he told me and like that does sound like a position they would just give someone to like all right you just do this but then accidentally falling into some real stuff well it's like it's like the weird desk at the cia yeah exactly but they say you know they say kit green was on it then they say ron pandolfi took over yeah it seems like a lot of your desk yeah they seem but like that one almost seemed performative to me yeah yeah yeah like with a public number But then in that same vein, like you're getting calls from actual experiencers and he's actually going out and seeing these things. Yeah, right. Which I think is, you know, I would have loved to have that job. That's like a dream job. Yeah. Have you reached out to Chris Carter? I don't know how. I've had like people I know try to reach out to him, him, David Duchovny. Oh, nice. Yeah. What's her name? Jillian Anderson. I'd love to talk to any of them. I'm sure David Duchovny would probably have some really interesting stories. Well, I think he's a UFO skeptic is what I hear. Oh, that's interesting. That would make for a good conversation then. I wonder if he's still a skeptic. I think it's tough now, right? Like, especially if you're always associated with that and then you see all this stuff coming out in the news and everybody's coming up to you being like, oh, you're the guy, you're Fox Mulder. And then he probably feels some pressure to have the correct view on it. And like now I do think the consensus. Shifting five, six years ago, I don't think it was popular to say you believe in this stuff. But now. How many times do you think you just ended a conversation with truth is out there? Yeah, definitely. But often it's a good choice. Or like the dude who is smoking the smoking man. Yeah. Episodes. Yeah. Yeah. That's like. You probably know some Mulder's legacy contact. They've always been here. They've been here for a long time. But they also say that like alien hybrids chain smoke. Or whatever. Like that's like one of the streamers thing. That's so odd. Hilarious. How about you? My number one would just be boring. It would be, of course, Dave Grush. But in conversation with Dave Grush, not so much an interview, but more so like a fireside chat type situation. Just like three, four hours of talking about legacy programs and legacy. Have you not had that conversation? With Dave Grush? That's not, that's not my story to tell. Okay. No, but that you said, like, that would be your number one thing you'd like to do. Yes. Oh, I see. I see. Yeah. To, to do like a, a, a video. Right. To sit down like three, four hours. Oh, I see. I see. It's just, I would pay to watch that. I would too. That would be, that would be my number one dream. I mean, all the way from like Roswell prior to today. I feel like, I feel like it'd be dangerous for Dave Grush to sit down with you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Same reason. Dave Grush. Wouldn't probably sit down with Bob Lazar where it's like, you guys are going to talk about some stuff that like literally you shouldn't be talking about. Yeah. Of course. Cause it's like, I've never had a clearance. I can cross lines that, that he can't without being thrown in jail. You should have a button with him. He just gets to slap the button when you're getting too close to that line. Cause like I can cross lines that, you know, he, he will be imprisoned and made an example of if he crossed, if he crosses. So I have ability to cross those lines. So yeah, you're right. Cause he. Held a way to send an invite. So let's do it. You know, that, that would be, that would be my dream just of, of any guest living, living or dead. It'd be amazing. I would love that. All right. Let's go down the list. Who else? I think that if that conversations have, it would be a sign that we've made a lot of progress because you know, like he could be super open about a lot of like the deeper stuff. Yeah. It would be like a very good indicator. Or dates and program evolution, which I just think with, with how much information has flooded the zone would be really helpful. Just to have like a clear and concise, this is how some of the legacy programs were founded. This is how they work. This is what they've evolved into. Well, you're doing the open source version of what he did at the UAPTF, I think is, you know, he was known as like this really, like, you know, his mind was a steel trap and he was just this like big database of like all this stuff, you know? You're both kind of like cut from the same cloth. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. There's like, when you put two phones together and just have AI talking to each other, it would be a great conversation. I, I would be, I'd be really intrigued to, to. Dude, so both of you nerding out on acronyms would be the best. You could probably host an hour long podcast where you say no words entirely in code and acronyms. That would be a dream. Oh dude. Right here in this diner. Let's set it up. I would love to. When you shop Kroger delivery, you can expect the savings you love and fresh groceries delivered right now. Our refrigerated trucks keep your items fresh while our associates are committed to getting every detail, right? Hi there. I am fully charged and here to tell you toy story five is now on Disney. It's been too long. Woody, Buzz and Jesse are back for a brand new adventure with some seriously cool new tech. What? Holy butterscotch. You said it, Jesse. So save your batteries and watch the global phenomenon at home. And the best part, it's perfect for the whole family. Power up your movie night and watch Disney and Pixar's Toy Story 5 now streaming on Disney Plus rated PG. My number two. Oh, man. Ideal guests. So tough. I think maybe somebody at the like, OK, if there is still a Majestic 12, you know, like Hill and Coder. Yeah. I would put somebody like a Bobby Ray Inman on it and I'd love to interview somebody like at that level where they. They have somewhat of a top of the pyramid view. You know, you always hear these like analogies of like, you know, it's like a bunch of blind men touching an elephant or different parts of an elephant. It's really hard to like piece together what's actually going on. And you even had, you know, when Jake came on my show and Ross's, it was like, I'm the fingertips, you know, and it's like we don't have all the context. And to me, the most interesting stuff isn't the like functional, like what's going on in the form of crash retrieval. Like, I'm pretty sure that is going on. It's the metaphysical truth behind it. What is going on? What is reality? Yeah. Yeah. We're touching. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Who would you think Bobby Raymond would be the closest one to give you a broader sort of. I don't. That's where I don't know. And it's interesting because I think with like the Malmgren thing, like in retrospect, I think he was had much wider of a scope than I ever would have ever imagined. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. All right. Good. So, yeah. So I think like you never know with these people, you don't know, you know, maybe like there's a, and then you would guess because he was, I think he was. Thank you. Well, he's NSA director and deputy director. Yeah. Just insanely spooky. Now, if you were to interview. Oh, thank you, sir. If you were to interview. That one has cheese. Oh, no, that, that one did. No, it doesn't. There's no sauce on it. I think. No, it's got a little bit of cheese. Yeah. Oh, it does. Oh, no. Oh, shit. It's all good. Do we have one without cheese? We do. Nice. Oh, nice. Amazing. They'll start you out. Thank you. Finding a little bit. Cut that out, I'm a little bitch. We're finding out, we're, we're finding out the deepest, the deep. The deepest secrets of Jesse. The deepest bowels of Jesse's. Which one is which? This one? Thank you. They're going to, ISU is going to target me with some cheese now. So, Jesse, if you were to interview Bobby Ray Inman. Yeah. Of course, infamously, Jay Anderson has and gotten some eclectic soundbites out of him. Yeah, yeah. What would you do differently or ask differently to try and pry more answers out of him? Because I'm of the mind of you that. That's a great question. You should do this. That is a great question. I think. I think you'd have to hit on, touch on real specifics. Right. As far as, you know, overlap that he's had in his career with specific people where it seems like, you know, they've, but even then, these guys are trained professionals and I think we're. Especially him. Especially him. And you, it's like, these people are running your questions through a filter of like, can talk about, can't talk about, if I, if I can't talk about it, I'm going to, you know, if I'm going to look like a sycophant. In the future, I'm going to express openness on the thing I can't talk about. And it's a computation and they're professionals at that shit. Yeah. And so like, you really have to read the body language. Like, but I do think if you want to, you know, kind of, you know, make them squirm a little bit, you got to, uh, uh, you know, bring up specifics, I think around like, you know, overlap. But even then you're, you're going off of things that are like, you have two or three data points, you know? And it's, it's ultimately, it's like, and. Open source knowledge on this stuff is a fucking minefield. Yeah. And all you're going to get is like a little smile out of the corner of their mouth when you ask like some cute question and they go like in the back of their mind, they're like, you have no idea. You could have a whole conversation about his time as director of Neuro. A hundred percent. The National Underwater Reconnaissance Office. Well, he formed Neuro, right? No, Neuro was formed in 1969 out of the need to coordinate Navy and, uh, CIA, DS&T reconnaissance activity. So up until 1974, Neuro was a tug of war between the Navy and DS&T, and I can't remember the specific secretary of the navy that kind of wagered some control back but yeah around that time frame well i'd also want to ask about his time at saic specifically his interest in psychotronic weapons yeah wagon hut as well wagon hut something we don't hear about often either and maybe maybe this is just i don't hear about it much but what about the russians are they not doing any underwater reconnaissance are they not doing like water crash retrieval or like water even like like what neuro was doing like don't they have their own we never hear anything from them in terms of the oceans we always hear you know crash i think one of the questions is is did the americans beat him to the punch because under neuro like the ivy bells programs and basically various programs to put reconnaissance sensors and activities on the seabed across the entire globe maybe we beat them there so we have denied territory with a lot of the oceans i think they have to have a program because they have nuclear subs and if you have nuclear subs then you're going to track this stuff no matter what yep and that's you know i think it's a true true above land it's true below and then or underwater and then they also have this uh mountain range called the yamanto mountain range where they seem to study sort of extended electrodynamics like their area 51 it is it's a nickel mine it's near kazakhstan that's the uh the dude who was on ross coltard's show he had um there's this lady she was like this opera singer her father was a janitor what she thought was a janitor and then when he died he left her with like all of these files and it's a book filled with diagrams of ufos and like trippy science yeah and they refer to the ufo gina oh gene stick yeah yeah that was fascinating i was like oh my gosh like and you know ross told me to this day no one's been like oh that's fake or like there was no there's been no debunks no the russians also there's this great book i described tom august on that talks about this um basically great race to like take over the tech of kammler stop like the secret nazi oh yeah and if you look at the avrocar project in the u.s it was literally this like we tested flying saucers that is not like debatable and they just they couldn't fly do this thing called the kawanda effect but we got all these like guys from kammler stop the secret nazi stuff like mita and we stole all victor schauberger's ip using army counterfeiting counterintel stuff all of these guys that were working on reported flying saucers in nazi germany we took over here through avrocar counterintel other other means and so they i think got a lot of this stuff too um they were called like that you know the habermal designs or the habermal project and i think there is there are exotic lineages of science in both in both places and then on the you know are they interested in underwater stuff uh dennis asperg uh you know the baltic sea anomaly says that you know that they had a presence out there well yeah i mean the baltic sea is obviously of very strategic importance and it seems like they're interested in this object underwater that makes sense okay number two oh me um thank you thank you everything okay everything's delicious um you know i don't know if i'd go towards you know anybody that i don't know are we this is living like living like we'd have an opportunity to i think dan burrish nice yeah dan burr should be a big and obviously you know bob lazar is up there i think he's everyone's number one yeah um but dan burrish i think because he's limited himself to not doing any of these interviews ever like you know since the early 2000s when he came out i think he would probably have i don't know i don't even know how that would go down there's so many weird stories i hear around dan burrish and like that he's under house arrest somewhere in canada and that like do not approach like he's being literally babysat by like ex mj12 like type cats that you can't even get close to that's mj12 guys are babysitting him like cotton mj12 deputies yeah like you can't enforcement arm like once you're out of the mj12 scope um you're not allowed to just lead a normal life type deal you're under like like a mafia type district surveillance and so he's got like yeah that type of activity this story is the one of the weirdest and so strange because there are things that like corroborate other people's accounts incredibly there are credible you know um the fact that where was that university that he went to to like do the public speaking event on molecular biology i can't remember and that's on paper yeah you know like he was and and you um it was stony brook yeah and then and which is you know a place where a lot of really uh bright minds went to discuss extremely bright minds it's like a center of like really spooky physics i think that's right yeah so and then afterwards to have his you know schooling completely erased not unlike bob lazar where you can't track him but we do have this talk that he did at this really prestigious you know um school and so you know how did how do people reconcile those two facts like you have really really interesting corroborative evidence that you can't track evidence of this guy being who he says he is even and then you know take it a little further he also got into the program kind of the same way that bob did through um edward teller yeah teller yeah he recruited him yeah and or according to him but then there's also i think a photo of him with mike mcconnell who's an sa director of the navy admiral yeah clint from uh night shift is pretty positive on that but i don't think it's conclusive yet okay but he's really high confidence on it but i don't i don't think it's been definitive because this researcher brian jackson says that mcconnell viewed him like a son the son he never had and then his son died in a weird way and it's like they swapped souls or something and i i don't know what to make of it it's also interesting is that bursch claimed that these these beings were sort of us from the future right these two different timelines that have like separated and that both of them ended up being these breakaway civilizations on you know zeta or whatever orion and that they're trying to help us steer clear of what is like imminent doom for this planet which would have been having hillary clinton elected no way yeah that's like marriage that's the one thing that would have like screwed our planet up was having hillary elected now if you look at hillary and you know we talked to a lot of people it seems like she was going to be the disclosure yeah there were efforts to do that right so it kind of corroborates what dan was saying whereas like oh that might have absolutely destroyed our timeline i have to say for some reason that is hilarious you know it's like hillary clinton is the apocalyptic right right and like yet to no one's surprise i think yeah yeah yeah of course yeah naturally yeah i mean and and what i mean there's probably an epstein connection to be made there you know i'd be curious to know if epstein was interested at all in dan burrish or bob lazar we should search that we should search it up let's do it now okay jesse could you pass me the ketchup please got you bro you sir because i mean just be careful bob bob early 90s would have been like a celebrity right and this guy you know i've seen was obviously highly interested in trippy physics so would you tell me yesterday about like the los alamos scientists and the physicists so epstein has like hours recorded with this guy steve bannon who's probably a spook himself and you know he's like trump's guy right trump's guy operative from the 20 from 2016 era and they're talking and he goes why'd you you know put zorro ranch where it is in new mexico and he starts going on about retired los alamos physicists physicists being in the proximity and he want him wanting to have conversations with these guys and you're like what the fuck like who's literally targeting our most sensitive programs and by the way bill richardson i think was secretary of energy um under bill clinton i believe he was a clinton crony for sure and like he was governor of new mexico and so i think that there's some sort of connection there too let's see let's see there's a lot of lazar uh but then like there's this artist and karen lazar there's all these so i'm just gonna look under bob lazar no results under bob lazar but plenty of results under just lazar i'm sorry bob i'm not trying to imply that you know uh if you're listening just if they were speaking but if they were speaking about him as well because you know he he he sends out feelers look up look up tasimir which is zero point energy because i i've heard rumors that epstein was obsessed with the casimir so k-a-z-i-m-i-r uh c-a-s-i-m-i-r couldn't have been further casimir loading weird come up no it's just my phone just like bugged out yeah classic no wait when you look up epstein's interest and do a point dude i'm telling you everything's frozen right now i can't do anything on my phone that happened to me in my mckinnon interview which hopefully will be out by yeah gary mckinnon yeah yeah yeah and i filmed it yeah i was like i can't my phone is completely frozen you got him to your studio yeah that happened to me too uh no no i went out to uk wow one more time here dude i really look forward to that well it's out so you can watch it it's out now oh yeah it's not i should watch it in the future now um it comes up a lot but anthony casimir is a name and then hernando quellar huxley casimir okay and so these are all names no what about casimir effect e-f-m-b-c-t i always spell fuck jesse the t-h-a-n um none no result what about anti-gravity that's interesting that'll probably come out let's see that oh gravity he holds these gravity conferences or whatever but one result okay where pulling it up now so from robert coon to jeffrey epstein mm-hmm um an exchange between so it starts with um jeffrey being like i deeply appreciate your strong intention with the bold interviews of the best physicists to be quote-unquote closer to the truth about our universe and its basic physical mysteries um below is my new j-fizz published article oh this is dr yuri gribov sorry about that i was wondering um and then i guess uh jeffrey was cc'd on this so this is going yeah they're talking about breakthroughs and um now at kroger your points add up to more ways to save every trip use them your way to take dollars off groceries at checkout or save at the pump you can even save up to 35 on your next fill up same points more choices and with low prices on fresh quality food plus digital and personalized offers tailored to how you shop your dollar goes further redeem your points online or in the app kroger fresh for everyone restrictions apply c-sider store for details hi there i am fully charged and here to tell you toy story 5 is now on disney plus it's been too long cowboy woody buzz and jesse are back for a haunch you said it jesse so save your batteries and watch the global phenomenon at home and the best part it's perfect for the whole family power up your movie night and watch disney and pixar's toy story 5 now streaming on disney plus rated pg he goes i waited years this opportunity my model predicts the matter anti-matter anti-gravity etc that was simply stupidly forbidden to publish in the most of uh in the most of distant physical journals why stupid because this barrier existed without any experimental verification of the opposite case matter anti-matter attractive gravity but now it is published and it links this publication which might be interesting to look at it is interesting i wonder why he says attractive gravity because that's what gravity is i think of repellent gravity as being anti-gravity or something oh yeah maybe a and b the a wave and the b wave um and so then robert coon writes and cc's jeffrey and says as you know jeffrey and closer to the truth so it sounds like an organization are collaborating on a major series for pbs on breakthroughs in mathematics and other areas uh and we surely want to feature you in one or more mathematics episodes hopefully so okay he was also very strange and we should look up closer to the truth yeah gribov is a physicist slash artist in germany with a idiosyncratic multiverse theory idiosyncratic universe theory oh one of my number one interviews uh trans surfing reality vadim zeland oh yeah i want to interview that guy so bad you talk about that a lot i love that book and he's he's i think people say he might be a collection of people there's one photo of him with these huge sunglasses on nobody knows who he is disappeared really oh yeah there isn't there no i was thinking of stock in the wild pendulum i'm thinking of the other he talked about he died in a plane crash yeah he's probably yeah he's super trippy he's on an interview i watched one so i was like this guy kind of like knows a lot he knows a ton yeah he was like the israeli version of puharich and they were like very close and then yeah a lot of people say are you convinced puharish wasn't also with ties to israel i mean he was working really closely with i think he was cial and i think the cia and saad have always been really close yeah i'm not a buddy buddy yeah that's an interesting cat too who are extremely interesting yeah all right what about you gerb number two this will be another kind of boring one compared to what you guys said but it would be a man by the name of edward c aldrich also known as pete aldrich this guy was a ghost guy no we talked a little bit about it last night but this guy was a secretary of the air force his cv is equatable only to somebody like bobby ray and men or donald kerr i mean this guy was ceo of the aerospace corporation he was jim taylor he was a senior i think board member at ltb aerospace which was eventually transitioned to e-systems which was a cia shell company and then bought up by raytheon but as far as i understand it edward c aldrich was pretty instrumental during his time as undersecretary of the air force for helping programs come and go to kind of morph legacy programs and take advantage of expanding sap security controls to kind of hide itself within other programs and program cover offices and there's actually a very real tangible observation of this um i can't believe this is unclassified but if you find a document called the history of safaa which is the administrative assistant to the secretary of the air force which is a pretty high level position within the air force specifically the headquarters of the air force um there were what was known as outside activities within the safaa and these were created in pete aldridge's time uh not necessarily created but kind of morphed in pete aldridge's time which was a collection of air force activities that existed outside of the air force that the air force had administrative and operational control over now the interesting thing about this is these programs that were stuffed under safaa the administrative assistant to the secretary of the air force by aldrich bypassed the safaa special access program oversight channels which is the safaa um sa haz sorry i mean safaa my mistake which is info slash i was gonna correct you yeah me too i was actually offended and so that that's like a that's like a big that's like a big light bulb going off that under um aldrich he kind of morphed these outside activities under cover offices that bypass traditional special access program oversight channels that's like a really big like red alert that where did you get that information from from that uh public history and uh that was doing stuff for my air force video which a lot of it talked about safaa because that safaa position two senior positions there a man by the name russell e weiler and william e mcclure are likely one of them is likely the gatekeeper that chris mellon was talking about back in 2024 do you remember when chris mellon yes do you remember when chris mellon took to twitter he posted an image in response to sean kirkpatrick leaking yeah chris mellon and kirkpatrick leaking yeah chris mellon and kirkpatrick leaking yeah chris mellon and kirkpatrick leaking it was um chris mellon talking to a senior usg official and saying hey i think we tracked down the ses senior executive service gatekeeper in the air force named redacted thanks to some work by like a good guy named alex katz and myself it's either um former safaa h sensitive activities russell weiler or aaz william e mcclure most likely so it's really interesting there it i would love to of course he wouldn't speak about it but to understand um that that role under No comment. No comment. You got me. No comment. I've had a couple of those. I think one of the big conversations that needs to happen next, at least in my lane with the legacy programs, is finding out how they morphed and evolved from what you can consider the Manhattan Project 2.0 to a blind man touching the elephant. Yeah. And I think that's a very critical milestone. And why there are no physicists. This also should be. There's this video I just did with Eric Weinstein and Eric Davis. And Eric Weinstein is like, you're telling me these crafts break physics and there are no physicists on the program. And Eric Davis goes, yeah, I checked with the guy, you know, I was exploring this through NIDS and, you know, and OSAP and, you know, met with a lot of these people, met with five people on the crash retrieval program. And they all said it was just material scientists and no physicists. And Weinstein, I think. Rightly so is like, I know like some of the smartest people in the country and they have no idea any of this stuff is real. Like, why are you if you're like struggling to get it to work, at least in its most vital form? The way it was working as the NHI had it working or whatever. What's the fear there? What's the reason? There is no good reason. It's actually like a brain-dead policy. If you had to think of a reason, what would it be? They're afraid of some like shifting tech gets out of hand. Everybody has a hold of it. It would be something like with the invention of the atom bomb, not only did like instrumental like experimental physics become dangerous, but theoretical physics itself became extremely dangerous. Yeah, and compartmentalized, you know, certain… Science itself. Exactly. Literally like the top layer of like, you know, think of theoretical physics as like the guardrails to reality. Like they literally, and this is the kind of Weinstein narrative somewhat, is like string theory was pushed out as like a limited hangout where like you bump up against the right stuff and they farm you out and maybe then they, you know… I see. …they were… They work with you. They extract you. And he thinks Renaissance Technologies, this hedge fund that this guy, Jim Simons, who contributed to fundamental physics with the Chern-Simons equation and also was an NSA codebreaker and then starts this hedge fund called the Medallion Fund, which does 30% year-over-year returns since 1989, literally made $100 billion. Oh, my God. 1989, you say? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And has the collection of like, it has all the most differential geometers in the country, but they all go there and you have to sign an NDA for life once you go. And you're like, you're in or you're out sort of thing. And then Stony Brook, he oversees. Oh, wow. He was Stony Brook and he also oversees Brookhaven National Labs. So it was this kind of iron triangle. And then the guy, David Spergel, is the guy who runs the Simons Foundation and he did the NASA UAP review panel. He fucking was in charge of it in 2022. This is a lot of crazy connections. I mean, whoa. The interesting thing is… It's crazy. Holy… It seems like the programs used to have top minds and physicists, right? Yeah. Like a premium example of that we were talking about with Kingman, like Jesse said, but that Chris Mellon exchange is Dr. Ed Dahl. Dr. Ed Dahl was a primary figure named in the Kingman crash by primary witness Arthur Stancil Jr. And Dr. Ed Dahl was a premier physicist that worked on the Manhattan Project and according to Stancil was a pretty important figure to the early efforts of legacy programs. He would go on to serve as like executive senior VP for TPS, TRW on their mission systems group component and so forth. So it seems like over time that… Yeah, mid-century had a lot of these guys and then something happened to where they were like, we cannot have these guys. And so I wondered what that was, whether that's an event, you know, some type of leak or whether it was just the, you know, taking that information, projecting it forward and being like, what happens if this gets into the wrong hands type thing. Yeah, it's a big, big deal. And we need to really clamp on this. And the only way we can do that is to have people who don't understand what they're looking at, look at this stuff. Yes. Because otherwise it breaks reality for everyone. And the number one string theorist over the last 50 years is a guy named Ed Witten. He's known as like the Michael Jordan of string theory. Like he's so much more advanced and smarter than anyone else. His father was working on anti-gravity at Martin Corporation's RIAS division, which was literally their anti-gravity division group. And he's… He's giving an interview for the, I think, American Institute of Physics. And he's on video saying, Wright Airfield commissioned me to do gravity. And now if you email him, he's like 103 or something. He goes, I can't talk about that. I'm so sorry. It is wild. It's funny you mention Michael Jordan because I am to string theory what Michael Jordan is to string theory. Me as well. Me as well. Me as well. No, no, I've cut stuff out out of, out of my, what I perceive as my own safety lines across that I don't really want to attract the ire of certain individuals. Of your own self. Yeah. So not against me. Because I don't really do interviews. No, you don't do that many interviews. No, but I've cut stuff out like of what I say at the end. So while editing, you're listening to yourself and you go, wait a second. Yeah, like maybe I shouldn't do this. Really? That's not quite, it happens almost every day. I mean, think about the shit that he knows where it's like, you know, he's like, everything's like a shot across the bow. But he's also so bold in these videos that I can't imagine what he's holding back. Yeah. A good example is in the, in the Air Force project, I put forward the name Terry Phillips as the gatekeeper. People shouldn't know in the same sentence as Glenn Gaffney. Yeah, right, yeah. There's other names there that right now, I just, I do, I am a little too worried to talk about. Yeah. Right. Because they're bad people. Terry Phillips is POS, a real bastard, but. What does that acronym stand for? Hey, I've never fessed on the channel. It might be the only acronym I know. But yeah, just stuff that I kind of worry if I put out there, I'll either attract the ire of people I don't want to attract and kind of take their fire or I'm just kind of worried for, for myself. I would not assume that they haven't heard about you. That's true. They, they have. How about you? There is one instance I can think of where somebody was like, uh, this would like endanger lives if you put this out. And it's like, and it, and it was like a, I think it was like a reasonable. Who was the guest? Can you say who the guest was? I, I don't know. I feel, I feel, I feel, no, I feel like if I, no, it wasn't Al, but I feel like if I said it would be, what's that? People would blow him up. Yeah. So it's a him. Yeah. I've liked not that many female guys, but, um, yeah, yeah. But, and then, and then I, and then I. This would endanger the lives of, of whom, of the people. And, and then, and then, and then a couple of other times, but, uh, you never know if it's classified, you know, like if it's like, because it's classified or. Right. But. I've, I've had to cut out something. Yeah. John Ramirez. Interesting. Yeah. It was the only time I've ever had to cut out something. You know, I, I've all, I haven't done that many government officials. I haven't had that many government officials that I know of. Um, but you know, Lou was one, I got to say that like, when he went in, he's like, you asked me anything. I don't want any of the questions beforehand. Um, and I'll respond how I can respond. Although he was very evasive in a lot of the questioning. Yeah. He didn't, he never asked me to cut anything out. Yeah. And he has a playbook of responses. That's right. Yeah. And you can tell when you listen to it. Like a lot of people just roll their eyes halfway through. They're like, we're not getting anything out of this guy. Yeah. They're tight. Um, but John Ramirez did, there was, there was things that we touched on. And, uh, this was around the time Matt Brown had come out with the Immaculate Consolation document. So you can extrapolate from that what you will. I won't get into it, but there was some discussions there that, uh, he had to double check. Yeah. And got back to me with a negative. Yeah. I have to, he's like, I'm not sure about this. Let me just check it. When he got back, he's like, no, 100%, you got to cut that out. Yeah. I was told very sternly, cannot talk about this. Which, which is interesting because of course his part was cut out of the Age of Disclosure, right? And I know he talked about the same things on Age of Disclosure. Ah, that's probably why. Oh, interesting. Also, cause he started, he, he does get into. I mean, it's, it's, it's intelligence. It's related to intelligence gathering, which is what he did his whole life. It's an asymmetric capability. It's exactly. And it's very sensitive. Yes. In something being used currently. So it's probably, it's literally national security. Yeah. Nothing to do with like spooky UFO stuff, but I mean, potentially a little bit adjacently, but yeah. Yeah. Okay. Number three. Number three. Star Wars, The Mandalorian and Grogu is now streaming on Disney+. What are you waiting for? Hop on. The must-see galactic adventure comes home on Disney+. This is the way. I like this kid. Always wear your seatbelt. Star Wars, The Mandalorian and Grogu. Now streaming on Disney+. Rated PG-13. The last ones you want to call, but we're happy to hear from you. Go to homeserve.com slash audio for 50% less your first year. Savings compared to renewal price point in Florida. I got to thank you guys. You guys go first. I'll thank all time. I would do. I would want to interview the Pope. It's a good one. The current one. Yeah. I actually have a crazy story. Leo too. He's an American. He's an American. It'd be a fun podcast. And there's just all this stuff around the Vatican knowing. Right, of course. Stuff about UFOs. Having a slice of Chicago deep dish with him oh wow yeah sick yeah it would be sick yeah that's a that's a great and and like i just think there's so much the magenta crash like was under you know i think was it pope pius pope pius the 12th the 12th like it was like you know under his jurisdiction and so and then he helped back channel this the information back to fdr yeah after the war yeah because he would have been you know part of the axis and then during the crash totally and then you have the crash yeah yeah no thank you and then you have pasolka talking about access to the vatican archives and you know her going with tim taylor and hinting that they know much more than meets the eye you're all good yeah no and and the whole you know you look at the institution and you look at obviously like we'd mentioned like you'd mentioned like with diana like a lot of the research and the words they use and stuff like that and then you have the access to the vatican archives and stuff that was potentially changed in the translation to sort of mask a lot of this stuff like the word cloud apparently um was actually like uh object or something and like yeah and so they replaced it with cloud and roman flaming blazing roman shields and whatever and yeah drums and whatnot and then and they have in um the i think it's like the rough land translation is like uh saint anne's cathedral there's once a year with within the grounds of the vatican there is a ufo research group that meets up and discusses this stuff so i went i'm coming out with a vatican and ufos documentary about the magenta crash and i interviewed marconi's grandson who says that marconi was part of rs33 and this is this is the most embarrassing part of this so i i'm in the vatican as part of this like you know event it's like some like interdisciplinary faith thing or whatever that i was in how did you get access to this so this dude that reached out around my peru mummy's doc was connected with um kyrsan iliumzinov yeah the president the president and micronesia or whatever i forget the of kalmykia kalmykia yeah please get it right so my apologies their population of 300 000 and they're beautiful people it's not nothing no definitely not all right and and he got this like elaborate beautiful so he was also president of the world chess federation fide yeah it was like being president of fifa you meet everyone and he's the man he's the nicest coolest guy i bonded with him like i was like this guy's so cool and um well you know maybe you know they have different standards of you know i mean he might he might not have done everything above board as dictator of his country i'm not gonna like you know comment on that but that was one of the most groundbreaking episodes that i've ever seen just like on another note and i'll let you finish but you that was insane dude the first seeing you up there on like some type of political throne next to like this president you know it dude it's so so so surreal and he said so many insane things in that interview so many insane he said he spent a ton of time with kissinger and kissinger seemed to know a lot about the ufo stuff oh yeah and he said that there was a president of another country who he was friends with who got abducted on a fishing trip but was afraid to speak about it and i'm like i know this guy's not you know maybe maybe there's like a little bit of embellishment going on so there's he's not lying yeah he's not lying there's no reason to lie and and and more more than his own experience is these little interactions with other world leaders and stuff that really goes like oh this is just a boys club yes of like of information like these guys love sort of sharing these little winks at each other yeah oh yeah their bodies yeah like this type of deal like it really cements that for me when i watched that interview i was like oh yeah once you're in you're in it totally totally yeah anyways so yeah so okay so this guy who hooked me up with that interview he uh was so so yeah so he had this invite to this vatican event or whatever and it was like faiths of all you know it was like every religion or whatever representatives would go or whatever and kirsten was there and he had this big chess piece that he wanted to give to the pope and the pope ended up like kind of scurrying off and he was like and then not a fan of chess what's that not a fan of chess or um yeah not a fan of chess apparently i didn't care yeah yeah no he didn't like engage with anybody and um but then there are some people like left over from the event like who were in it you know some official looking cardinals or whatever who are walking kind of the grounds and like shaking hands or whatever and so um dude that invited me and kirsten are like huddled up there and i see them talking to one of them and so i go up and uh shake the guy's hand briefly like you know meet him for a second and he gives him the chess piece because he's a representative of the pope and then they kind of walk off and then somebody comes to me after he goes you know who that was he shook you know his hand you shook i go no he goes that was the uh cardinal secretary of state which is the number two to the pope and has more political power than the pope the pope is like the figurehead and this is like the dick complete fumble i could have asked him about ufo but i don't i don't know what the guy's face looks like you know yeah you don't have a set of trading cards well the car no i don't and so i so i i'm like oh shit and then i'm like in the back of my head i'm like well at least he probably doesn't know anything about ufos and then i find out like a week or two later that like in certain instances he's expressed interest in ufos oh but you know what something what's that you know something of interest and so but anyways i i still i want to i want to interview one of you one of the red guys or the white guy that's that's really good yeah i can't wait for that doc yeah it's gonna be super exciting it's gonna be cool oh man yeah especially because since you made the reverse of that doc with the sort of like satan worshiping rocket builders yeah you have like the dichotomy here this is really interesting i would i would also have a religious figure um but mine would be the i heard about you know this carthusian monk that apparently lives in like uh vermont where did we hear that john stewart okay yeah okay yeah i remember that when he was on your pod yeah a lot of people are gonna roll their eyes at the at the sound of this guy's name john stewart i love the guy i think he's fun um he's hilarious and he's got gumption and he just doesn't give a shit you know he even considers himself a religious figure and he's like i don't know what to do with this a useful idiot, which I think is a refreshing take. It is refreshing. No, it's better than the people who don't know. It's like, I disagree with John on a lot, but I'd love to get dinner with him. He just seems like somebody who you would enjoy spending time around in a personal setting. Definitely. And he's a showman, obviously. He's an ex-wrestler, politician, car salesman. He's a car salesman. He loves it. I was up late last night. He has this video he came out with saying, Whitley Striever is a CIA agent. He goes, this is going to break the internet news of 2026. And you find out that he's quoting William Cooper, Behold the Pale Horde. I texted Whitley, I was like, is this legit, dude? And he's like, he goes, that's absolutely nuts. And Whitley's saying, it's absolutely nuts. How many times did John refer to himself in the third person? I don't know. He's wearing an orange jumpsuit on here. But your episode with him was amazing, and I think it showed how deep, at least in that isolated context, the alien interview, that guy knows his shit. He's done a lot of legwork on that specific video and probably uncovered potentially some of the most, I mean, he came up with a list of names that were in that room. And those names, he then independently sought to verify one by one and was met every single time with either a, I'm not talking about this, don't call here again, or that was my husband, he would never talk about work. So it was really, really interesting. Like, you looked at it and you go, oh, there's definitely something here. But then he mentions these, so apparently how this goes down is the CIA or the DIA at the time hires remote viewers to remote view targets or whatever. Now, they're getting pulled in the direction of this monastery in northeastern United States, and this sort of big white building is what they're saying. Something you're seeing is the people that are there are going to help you. Those are the people you need, right? So they were sought out by, first of all, remote viewers. Now, I reached out to Joe McMoneagle about this, because that would have been roughly around his time. He said it rings a bell, he would get back to me, and he got back to me and he was like, no, we were actually tasked for a monastery in that area, but it had something to do with, like, hauntings, which is also really trippy. And I think it had to do with, it was like, it was a private thing, it wasn't like a government thing, so it was like post Stargate, but regardless, he said these two, they took six of them, and they had them work as counter-intel and sort of remote viewers and train them, and then two of them were really talented and those two were flown out to S4 apparently, meant to communicate with this being. And so John said he has a guy on the inside, he won't tell me his name and I've, like, credit to him because I've, in person too, I was like, just give me the name. Like, give me something, dude. I gotta go, I gotta gotta go see this guy um i find out the name of the monk um but not the name of the person who interviewed the monk so that part still is a little nebulous but apparently this monk is like 97 years old he's in good health still alive and spilled the beans and said yeah do you know he spilled the beans no to this to the guy that john was getting his information from have you reached out to this monk uh no um and i know probably a lot of people have i i heard through um well through john uh that rick dodie has like apparently like sent pizzas there and like letters and facts recently no way yeah to like try and creepy yeah and so that that tells me is that oh rick dodie also doesn't know about this and that he has a genuine interest or you know some other nefarious connection yeah you never know what you never know but i just thought dropping that name was kind of interesting um and but he has some other person on the inside that ended up writing a letter now i've i've penned a letter i have a letter ready to go um i put the video out and i thought i'm gonna wait a bit because they're probably gonna get inundated with emails and so i'm gonna wait a bit but you can't contact them in any way that disrupts their vow of silence and you uh i mean you can't get inundated with any type of cover-up conspiracy anything outside of like perhaps historic like historic purposes or faith purposes those are like that's the bare minimum but as soon as you talk about anything else you're gonna get shut down shut out for good so how did you approach it as a historical basis yeah pretty much that i'm a researcher and that there were um rumors circulating that uh during the cold war era um that some people it within certain agencies would have hired uh people with monistic ties uh to you know sort of aid in some of their operations and now we're hearing um more fringe um sort of conversations around this matter and i wanted to give you a chance to set the record straight about uh any involvement that you might have had nice during that time uh you know to correct the history books was like you know the way in but i haven't sent it yet and i'm a little reluctant to do that but i'm reluctant because i know that like if they don't answer it they're just gonna leave it on that's it yeah i think you gotta do it though because he's a 97 yeah yeah but interesting that guy i'd like to talk to you like how would you talk to him though if he's in a ball of silence when you have to exchange so apparently allegedly according to john he broke his vow silence to answer the questions um and that guy has been in contact with this monk's family for a long time gotta find that guy yeah he would have been you know the communicator which is so crazy to think about it's wild yeah yeah and he you know he's saying some trippy stuff like you know how how they were you know literally he was like listening to in his mind and like talking to the general at the surer colonel whoever it was in the room at the same time like real-time translating that's so crazy wild but you know science fiction reality i don't know but i would regardless if he's real which i think he is and if he's lying i would love to hear a lie from a 95 year old monk i would love nothing more well it makes intuitive sense like you have the telepathy tapes and you have like the idea of like when one sense goes like all those kids are they say autistic but usually they're autistic they're mostly non-verbal that's right and so this guy's taking a vow of and so there's there's definitely something around like an accentuation of senses when something else goes and spending that much time just hermetically sealed and meditating yeah correct they're they're in constant contemplation about god you're probably doing your your paradigm is going to look much more like one of these beings likely correct or if not it's going to be just deviated from a normal human beings and you're going to throw a person like that at any entity to try to translate for sure yeah that's i guess that's the catch-22 about taking that vow of silence is that you do accrue all of this uh amazing knowledge through your contemplative practices and your deep pondering of you know spirituality and the source and all of this but at the same time you have no outlet you can't articulate it right well it's like this with like jesus and the buddha and it's always like ears to hear like your communication is only as good as like the measurement instrument on the other side and how much it resonates and so like there's going to be this like translation error like if you get to a certain level of wisdom like it's inherently not going to like trickle down in this like one-to-one way yeah trippy that'd be i would love love if you were able to get in contact with that monk yeah who knows he's definitely not watching this podcast so we can say whatever we want fuck that guy i mean even if he's not talking about like the alien interview probably strike me down right now i think you'd probably have a better chance communicating with that person in an astral form yeah um you know and i think you suggested that or i did i told you hey shit yeah it's so funny because when i broke this story when i heard it first from john to amar our buddy amar um he was in a monastery in the oldest like monastery in the world like saint catherine's monastery or during that time and i was like whoa i told him about this monastery he's never been in a monastery and it was the last day of the year it was january 31st and i was the last person he would talk to before the new year and uh it was just like this weird trippy synchronicity yeah what are we at number three i think so yeah you guys you guys have the pope another boring name yeah exactly i'm gonna say another major major colonel because you guys have the pope you guys have monks i and then you got me who's gonna say donald kerr so that's like a huge step down in interest who's donald kerr donald kerr was he was um you know either director of the nro altogether or some pretty senior elements of the nro he was uh within ds and t um on mitre uh eg and g special projects vp or director okay this director of los alamos like spook spook spook this guy might be nhi the most the most juicy robust cv i've ever seen in my life but the problem is with some of this guy is just like the the monk donald kerr is ancient so a lot of these guys so is bobby ray inman it's it's kind of a race against time um hopefully their testimony has been taken in and and saved for historical purposes but you know the guy's super old and from from what i understand he's been one of the most ingrained legacy people um as you can just tell from his background i would watch eight seasons of gerb doing deathbed confessions i've i've tried with multiple people and they and they say they will tell me on their deathbed but not pre-recorded exactly exactly they all they all think they're gonna live longer everybody who dies thinks oh when i get out of this i'm buying an rv and like i'm traveling the world yeah this is it there's one very specific person that has in my opinion one of the most worthy testimonies that must be heard and he says you know what when i'm dying i'll summon you to my deathbed and i'll tell you but the guy's in really bad health and so i don't want him to be gone as my friend and you don't want to be like you're dying yeah yeah well i don't want him to go because a he's my friend and be like there's no guarantee we could have that conversation with with his poor health what's what's making him so reticent in sharing that now that he's in decent health uh does he not trust you or does he not trust that the information will fall into the wrong reprisals we uh during the course of our communications there have been several instances where you know some some keys will be dangled above him saying hey you better stop or like we're taking away your pension because this guy retired at a very high level within um a certain element of the armed forces and he has family members that rely on him to live because of disability so he's ultra worried because he's disabled himself that pension gets taken away he can't live those members of his family can't live either so that's this big pain point that they love to target this guy's seen bodies yes well we talked that's the guy we talked about last time yeah yeah seen bodies seen tech seen craft yeah seen our craft too is this the same guy that greer mentions did greer ever meet this guy you know what i have to say about about greer and some of his um some of his his testimonies that he's collected some people will be very shrewd and approach greer from a doctor patient privilege because of course greer is a licensed doctor and they'll enter into an agreement what is it i didn't know that yeah they'll enter into an agreement with greer where greer is in a position of like a health caretaker yeah and so all of their communications with greer will be protected via hippa and so when greer releases those he's in direct violation of those laws so greer has collected and distributed testimony illegally on several occasions of people who approach him under the guidelines of hippa whoa and he takes it upon himself to release that and talk about that and that is both highly unethical and just wrong and so you didn't answer my question i have no further comment to say there all right it sounds good i did not answer a lot of people have come across greer's desk yeah sure yeah he was like the guy yeah and and of late because there was a time at which you know like like we've talked about before i think he did the right thing by platforming guy like mccandlish on you know the the the national press club in 2001 and the other one but yeah 2023 with mike herrera but also done the wrong thing of taking people's testimonies and expanding on them to suit his needs wow and probably i don't know that's a pretty big claim too and that's like you know is that something he's nervous about like what is what do you think like what's what's the like the hip the hippo violations yeah like why why he's not because he's continued to do it well i i think if if you were uh trying to protect the program i think you would use him now as a fly trap he's been legally mandated to take down their documents because he's been threatened with legal action because of the hippo violation and he still talks about him yeah and there's weird stuff that you've pointed out go missing and like really key interviews like he did a great thing with jonathan and that was steven greer just cut all these parts of the interview and he's also i think um lord uh hill norton admiral hill norton and um the uk who's head of the you know the the naval fleet there thank you thanks so much coffee soon i'm good with coffee yeah you're good i'm good for now too thank you now at kroger your points add up to more ways to save every trip use them your way to take dollars off groceries at checkout or save at the pump you can even save up to 35 dollars on your next fill up same points more choice and with low prices on fresh quality food plus digital and personalized offers tailored to how you shop your dollar goes further redeem your points online or in the app kroger fresh for everyone restrictions apply c-sider store for details hi there i am fully charged and here to tell you toy story 5 is now on disney plus it's been too long cowboy woody buzz and jesse are back for a brand new adventure with some seriously cool new tech what holy butterscotch you said it jesse so save your batteries and watch the global phenomenon at home and the best part it's perfect for the whole family power up your movie night and watch disney and pixar's toy story 5 now streaming on disney plus rated pg um i think you know james fox got that interview and then stephen greer was just like that's my interview and he like cut james fox's parts of the interview he did that with wake ant as well and i talked to james fox about i said hey do you remember shooting this and he said yeah of course i was like do you know greer cut out all of your parts they said no so crazy wow because you can hear in the interview uh not like the interview fear posted to to youtube but in the archives of the dpi archive you can hear sort of the raw interview and at certain parts james fox will start to ask a question then he'll just cut he's acting like it's him it's like come on dude it's okay he can squat 700 pounds or whatever leg press leg press sorry big difference there actually how much can you like press trip i don't know i don't like press much because it doesn't do anything it doesn't how's leg press gonna help you in athletic movements functional movements we're a big guy you don't do any weight training i do a lot of weight training but more so like um more so compound movements instead of like a leg press like deadlifts yes like how how often jujitsu four times a week no way two times wow as you could probably tell you're training six times a week where do you have time that's crazy that's impressive well i you got to to stay sane sometimes on this subject i i agree with that tone totally i do i do exercise i do like three days a week i just love it it helps calm the mind um there's something about matching up with like a worthy opponent and grappling and and getting to a position where you could choke the life out of them if you're not in a controlled sport environment it's just like there's nothing more satisfying than uh matching up against somebody worthy of scaling grappling and outbesting i don't know solving a puzzle is pretty satisfying it's a very tribal thing i love playing bridge chess uh you know a lot of people say it's really close yeah you lop my butt in chess last time we played same what do you guys do to to stay sane and grounded in your spare time with this subject um i mean go ahead i used to surf and then i moved to texas and i don't surf as much there i used to surf in california i know you went to like portugal yeah yeah i'd surf all the time you're good at surfing i'm like okay it's hard amazing but it is definitely really hard but yeah i'm like decent no it's cool yeah you ever encountered sharks no as a canadian that's like our number one fear oh my god that's right it's just like sharks because we don't have them so we're like yeah yeah it's like an abstract not real fear like even where there are a ton of great whites in northern california i think the last like death due to a great white shark was like 2013 or something crazy like that well it's still not zero yeah but yeah i don't know surfing running now more meditating but i could use some more compartmentalization for sure like yeah i guess definitely spend a lot of time on ufos and crazy shit yeah because you gotta like you gotta do so many things in between these episodes that people yeah might not realize or might might think is uh a lot of people think a lot of the brunt of the work is like having those conversations holding court coming up with questions it's more than that it's like it's the amount of brain power it takes to devote to the subject on the off time like you got to live a normal life but then also i got a guest i got three guests coming and they each got four books i gotta read at least one of the books you know and so you're catching up on reading during that time and then on top of that you're getting inundated with all sorts of other you know inquiries and future you know um opportunities and you're constantly like in this world and the second you let up you feel like it starts you know like you want to maximize you want to strike while the iron's hot type deal yeah and that's that's tough that's tough as um uh it's a tough mental game to play so maybe offsetting that with like physical activity is probably the healthiest yep well that's why i don't know about you guys but i'm so thankful i don't really spend time doing like news of the day stuff or kind of capturing news i say i don't know how to do it yeah yeah yeah like um also you're gonna swing like with ufos you're gonna swing at bad pitches if you don't do that but you're definitely gonna swing at bad pitches if you're trying to do like the hot new thing we all we already swing at bad pitches after doing research that's what i'm saying yeah that's very true yeah guys like vetted or um even like the night shift guys like these guys covering or uh psychoactivo people covering like the today news like to me when i started this channel i did it a little bit maybe for two episodes yeah i was like all right what's going on let's do a little roundup and then i went oh and another thing happened another thing happened i'm taking notes and i'm now i have to research because the second you don't you look like a buffoon and i'm like oh i'm not gonna do that i'm not gonna do that i'm not gonna do that and so i'm just like researching constantly because news is coming out daily about stuff and i'm like there's no way i'll ever be able to keep up with this i am the most easily psyopable person now because i have no time to research anything and i'm constantly and you're bought in a priori to the whole topic obviously and i'm responding to every single story and i'm giving my take and my take becomes shifted and molded according to you know the information exactly that i'm that i'm consuming and um stress it like heightened my anxiety right to think about did i have the right take on that did i say the right thing oh i made a mistake i should redact that like these stresses you're like my hat's off to those guys doing it yeah um i'm glad people are out there covering that because there is a need for that type of content i think a lot of people enjoy it um but it's not for me it's something that uh yeah definitely i don't have the heart i don't know how you do it i feel like it's not for me it's something that uh yeah definitely i don't know how you do it i feel like sometimes it reduces in its best form it's like you're covering and amplifying stuff that like needs to be amplified especially because like all this stuff gets drowned out often by like that's true the world war three we might be like on the verge of you know other kind of prosaic political events i think in its worst form it's like uh sports center for or tmz for ufos yeah and it's like star you managed you that's right and you managed to take this like topic that touches on like ontological truths sacred truths like what is reality like you know itself like the most important questions and you've managed to turn it into like this he said she said like food fight thing and it's like come on that's a good way of putting it jesse like at best it it is something that like everybody kind of wants to be updated on and you have and at worst it's literally like high school drama yeah yeah so yeah it i don't know i don't know man i don't know how anybody doing that doesn't suffer from some type of you know yeah offset depression anxiety like because that would affect me i've been you know i've had my bouts of depression i know i was like when i got started i was like no no no yeah i gotta stay away from this like and then when you you view the topic and think about it your knowledge is as wide as a ocean but as deep as a puddle right because you don't have the time or ability to really specialize in various parts of the subject and as we all know it gets so weird so quick and all of us us focus and specialize in different aspects of this topic. you know, we, we lack in knowledge of each other's topic and there's just so much to learn about various aspects of this subject, you know, experiencers, science and physics, legacy program stuff. It'd be so impossible to cover all of it at once. That's a good point, man. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you guys are a part of it. Yeah, me too. I'm very grateful. I'd feel crazy if you guys were in here. I know. Don't leave me. What island, Jesse? Jesus Christ. All right. Well, boys, this is delicious and this was fun. Yeah, this was a wonderful time. So fun. Thanks for, uh, thanks for hanging out with me at the Flying Saucer. Appreciate it. Oh yeah. Thank you for having us. Thank you for having us, Chris. It's great apple pie and burger. Yeah. It's delicious. All right, let's get the hell out of here. Let's do it. Now at Kroger, your points add up to more ways to save every trip. Use them your way to take dollars off groceries at checkout or save at the pump. You can even save up to $35 on your next fill up. Same points, more choices. And with low prices on fresh quality food, plus digital and personalized offers tailored to how you shop, your dollar goes further. Redeem your points online or in the app. Kroger, fresh for everyone. Restrictions apply. See site or store for details. Hi there. I am fully charged and here to tell you Toy Story 5 is now on Disney+. It's been too long, cowboy. Woody, Buzz, and Jesse are back for a brand new adventure with some seriously cool new tech. What? Holy butterscotch. You said it, Jesse. Power up your movie night and watch. Disney and Pixar's Toy Story 5, now streaming on Disney+, rated PG.