Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner

We are completely misdirected, even when you're holding on to something as solid as a double card. 'Cause you talked about how just fallible memory is, and into this day I've been trying to think about how you did that, and I just had no idea. I have no idea where I was tricked or where I'm not remembering or where that happened, I have no idea. I've seen him do the thing with the glass, where the glass just moves out. It's probably the simplest thing, but I fucking love it or the straw floats out and straws looting. I mean, I've never seen a magic show before, I really haven't even seen car tricks. Yeah, and a lot of people have. They've seen videos of it, but seeing it in person is way different, 'cause you're always your one step removed on video, so it's like watching a stage show, and you go, "Oh, there's smoke in mirrors. There's trap doors." Right. But then when it's in front of you, all those variables seem to disappear, and you're just left with nothing to close up. It's crazy. You have the frustrating thing happen to you where your suspension of disbelief is unwilling. Yeah. It's not willing. You're not like, "Oh, I'll suspend it for the sake of the trick." You're like, "No, I've exhausted my resources. I don't know how you did that." Yeah, on the videos, you can stop it, go back frames, try to invest in it. And you can see how I did that on video, that particular one. So there's certain tricks that you have to cut around or certain tricks that you have to like do. Like, if you look at mentalism, most of the stuff happens off camera. And then when the cameras are rolling, it's a lot of wordplay, I'll say that. We never met before today, right? You know, like these type of things, and you're like, "It creates the illusion that you didn't set anything up." And then you go, "We didn't set anything up, right? But you don't know that you were set up, if you've handed me your phone before, you know, because I was doing some pre-show magic trick to you, and I did something. Like, "Well, you're mine, but now I have all the secret information on you that I'm going to reveal throughout the next hour." And, you know, and play a look at me and think of this thing and like do all these even performative bits, which is fine, but yeah, it's not actual minoring. Well, I think you have a point about the show's being in person, because like, I even felt that amount of awe in like an interaction with the person since I was a kid. Like, I was on the edge of my seat when you were doing those tricks, and it all culminated with the plastic. All right, boggled my mind, because Luigi walked in. That's the first thing I told Luigi. And he was like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah." Speaking of which here, I'll give you a little demonstration, not on, not on actual magic, but more on how magicians can use magic to obtain information, and then how that is perceived to people watching. So, for instance, all right, just go ahead and just take a card up. Yep. Anyone? I got a game out. Sorry. Yep. No worries. You got the number from me? Yeah, you just have a look at it. Okay, you got it. Put it back. Yeah. All right. But at this point, there's no way any of us know what that card is. Well, sorry, you guys know. I have no idea what this card is. All right, so, all right, just think of this card. Just think of it. If it's going to be like a bit of a poker face scenario, so I don't want you to give away any information. Okay. But I'm going to try to read from your facial expressions or your sort of micro expressions, anything that I can to try and determine what the card is. Is it. Don't answer it. Is it red or black? So your right eye, when I said black, moved slightly. Really? I'm going to assume it's black. Is it a club or a spade? Now, okay. So, so now you're trying to master it, and so it tells me it's a spade once again. Okay. Now, is it a picture card or a number card? Okay. It's a number card. All right. Is it higher low? Higher low? It's low. So it's a low spade. Is that correct? Yeah. Okay. There's a free choice. Any card? All right. Right here. Look at this. I'm the finger. What the fuck? What the fuck? Is that it? Four spades. All right. So now here's a thing. So I didn't actually read your micro expressions. This is all performative. I already knew what card you chose. How? Well, there's two ways that I can know that. Either I force the card upon you or I peek the card after, right? There's two ways to do that. So if I force the card on you, even though it felt like that was a free, completely free choice, it wasn't. It felt free. It wasn't, right? So this is a force. So now you're being given the card that I want you to. So now that I have information that you don't know I have, I can ask you to hide that information from me and now I can see what that looks like. Oh, so now I have information on what your tells are. And this for magicians or mentalists or even CIA is really, really valuable information. So having inside information and being able to ask people questions you know the answers to and then seeing how they dance around the answers, knowing they're trying to avoid what the truth is, you can see if they're lying or if they're telling the truth. So even the card you offered it, you know, that's a fresh pack. You opened it, you cut the deck once, spread it and of jokers included, 54 cards in there. You offered me up the one you wanted me to pick and I tried to game out what you wanted me to pick. Sure. It was a different one. Yeah. So I just don't know how I was led to pick the one card you wanted me to. It was my mind. It was not interesting though, but that's the whole crux of the trick. Because if you knew that that was even in play, that I was, and you suspected I was trying to force you a card and see what in different direction. But if you knew that that card was forced, you know, that would change the dynamic of how I was sort of trying to read that information. And so it's really interesting because you take magic and I just apply it to the whole I see, you know, space and I go, oh my god, like they're literally doing magic tricks. Yeah. And you see it on these interviews, you see it, you know, when you talk to them in person, you know they know things, but they're playing dumb. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, when I do magic tricks to these people, you know, I get to see. Thank you. Thank you. I get to see what their tells are before the podcast. Yeah. And then I grill them on these questions, probably shouldn't even be saying this on camera, you know, because they might be watching this. But that's the idea, right, is that you get to, and then now I understand, you know, how they shift in their seat when they're trying to hide information or, you know what I mean. So it helps. Well, even you told me I was giving off micro expressions. After you said that when I was answering, I felt like my eye twitching and I said, oh crap, my giving it away. And you slightly were, that's the thing too. That's the other psychological stuff. Thank you very much. And thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Yeah. There is, there is like a whole psychological layer to trying to hide things, so it's, you know, don't think of a black cat type idea, same thing happens. And also, there's like certain, I learned this from a friend Spidey. He has this behavioral arts channel, he, like, looks at people lying, but when people scratch their nose, so when you're lying, it actually like increases the blood flow to your face, which, and this is where the Pinocchio lie comes from, because your nose, like, that is like on a microscopic level, and so that's why people would, but that doesn't mean it's a lie, could be, they're just trying to dance around something else. So has there ever been anybody you've had on the pod that because you're able to gauge out their micro expressions or when they're lying? You have just known or feeding you a bunch ofalone. No because you can't tell what they're lying about. Okay. You can only tell there's like some inconsistency in what they're saying. So like, you know, like lie detector famously aren't lie detectors. Right. It just measures your heart rate. Stress levels. Yeah, exactly. So it's telling you, oh, this person is stressed. You don't know what about. It could be about trying to hide the truth. Right. It just reminds them of when they were a kid and they got beat up for saying this or whatever that is. Yeah. I know we talked about this too, Jesse, you know, just kind of guests on your pod that you felt may have been kind of taking you for a ride. We talked about that as well. We talked about just the, the, the, the guests that you had the hardest time taking their story of face value. Yes. All for sure. Yeah. Are we? Are we in the pod, right? Oh, yeah. Okay. So I didn't take that wall. Yeah. Well, well, Chris and I did Charles Hall together when, uh, Jesus, that sounds weird. What we did in interview with Charles Hall when Chris was telling Luigi and I when I was out here last time and that's when Chris was doing impressions of some other prominent figure in this subject too, that Luigi and I were just a lovie. Yeah. Who is this? Who is I? Who is I'm personally. I'm glad so. That's the horror. Luigi was cackling Goldie. It's just like the way so soft smoke in these like, oh, thank you. And like, you just see these lights, these, you know, these, I don't know what they are. But then you hear this like soft voice background. - Thank you. - Just hailing off at the end of the videos. - Yeah, there's the kind of infamous video about the last contact of him doing that. - Yeah. - Where do you, yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah, he always says cut the football chatter. - Cut the, yeah, cut the football chatter. (laughing) - Yeah, what do you make of that? What do you make of like all that stuff? - Well, Justin over talking about this last night, you know, he is, is die hard once to talk to Tent Taylor. - Yeah. - That seems to be the biggest number of runs. - Yeah, it's a disposal. - 'Cause at least-- - That's your way, Will. - It is, I think, yeah. - Yeah. - Think it'll happen? - I put him on, I made a vision board and he's on. (laughing) - Cut to Jesse's shrine with a handle. - Let's say Tanty. - Yeah. - Yeah, what he could do, pinch to a grand. - Oh, so creepy. - 'Cause it seems to me. - I really wanna do it. - Yeah, I do. - He's the insertion between trippy stuff and then real nuts and bolts air up space, but like a really trippy stuff. Not even just like UFO work. - Like a lady, like time travel. - Mm-hmm, yeah, there's stuff. - Oh yeah, the Burmuda, T-Towns and Brown stuff. - Yeah, in fact, his name came up at Charles Hall thing with it's really interesting too. Like Mary Teresa's wife was just like-- - Yeah, Timothy. - And Bloodso said that he was writing a book with Towns and Brown's daughter. - Have you contacted her? - Who was writing a book? - Tim Taylor. - Oh wow, and didn't Towns and Brown's daughter leave a, like some type of Amazon review on his book? - Yes. - Yeah. - Yeah, so there is a connection there. - There is definitely a connection. - Yeah. - Have you reached out to the daughter? - I had, well, she was on a phone call in my original town. - That's right. - That's where I had the documentary. And so, we'll occasionally talk on the phone and she's fascinating. - That's so wild. - Yeah, he's just such a-- I think it's more of like, he's this weird puzzle piece that you don't know where to put in the puzzle. And that's what's so intriguing about this man is not necessarily how he's tied together or everything, but just like what is his role here? He seems like this transient sort of goes wherever he wants, entity, but at the same time, I get the feeling might be an experiencer from having, you know, so much interest in the topic and talking to Streiber, Let's His Face, Charles Hall and all these other experiencers, Bledsoe. I don't know what to make of them. - It's weird because Tim Taylor doesn't cross over into my lane of studying the programs at all. Like Tim Taylor's saying, never comes up. - He's an aerospace corp. - Right, right. - Yeah, NASA, but still in terms of like, actual program efforts, his name has never really come up as a key player ever. Which is interesting 'cause then he's galvancing around like Bledsoe, but Charles Hall, - That you would think that he would keep a lower profile if he was really in the deep part of the program. What do you think? - I think he was part of some, well, I think the program is probably a misnomer and I think there are probably a lot of different, you know, you have this phenomenon which is sort of multifaceted and then you have whatever's going on with Dan Sherman like with the, you know, like humming a tone. Yeah, exactly. Project preserve, definitely. It's definitely stepwise different than reverse engineering and craft, which is the stuff you're tracking. And so those two things are different and then is there some sort of, you know, like looking glass style time travel thing? Like probably, you know, if you take Bob's art face value, they were at least looking at little time perturbations, you know, and then, you know, is there some group that thinks it can time travel? Like there's a, he wrote a book called Launch Fever. Yeah, it's his autobiography. And he writes about flying back and forth from between Florida and the Bahamas. Yeah. And he says time moved differently there and to me it's like all this like weird coded language. I get to island time and it is really strange. - Oh, that's an interesting way to see it. - And then as simultaneously, he's telling Chris Blood so son that like he's part of this time travel group and time travel is the president of it and Tons of Brown always conceived of himself as a time traveler. Like I literally asked Tons of Brown's daughter, like what is, if your father is a time traveler, what is he up to now? And she goes, he's probably rearranging the math on the most frontier science to make sure we don't blow ourselves up. And then he's thinking about the UFO. Newk's thing is so quiet. - I see some sort of time traveling super hero that's saving us all from imminent due. - Yeah, right. - One of this ideas. Also, did you ever ask Malmgren about Tim? - So Malmgren at the end of his life was going really deep on Tons of Brown. - Right. - And was like had all these like notes on him and he apparently said he said he had a foreign intelligence source that gave him a documentation of Tons of Brown collaborating with Tesla on some gravity stuff, which is crazy. And like I couldn't get too much deeper than that. So you know, I don't know. And then on Tim Taylor, I don't think I ever asked him. I probably, knowing me, I probably did. And then he probably didn't say anything. That's why I don't remember it, but yeah. - Interesting. Are we all in solidarity that Malmgren was likely CIA? - Yeah. - I don't know enough to put him in that category, but I'll trust both of your judgements. - I think for sure. - Yeah. - Because he was in, he was talking about PrimaCuff and Dobrin and Pompadoo, like a global stage sort of guy. And then he was at Yale and at Oxford before that. And he was living at, he had Paul Melon's walking stick at his apartment, and I'm holding it. Paul Melon founded the CIA. And then he goes, my best friend, Tom Farmer or whatever. And then you look up Tom Farmer. He was the general counsel of the CIA. Like, come on. - Yeah, I'd be a big oversight not to, yeah. I have him in the CIA. - He had IDAA as kind of his knock position at the Institute for Defense Analysis. - Which he literally said was a cover for his work on the National Security Council. So this whole D.D. Johnson takedown around him, not working on the National Security Council. He already addressed before he died with this other interview Robyn Laird so. - Wow. I'm still blown away that he got that interview. - Yeah. - I am too, man. It felt like really like a, yeah, it did, yeah, yeah. - What would you guys say are the most important interviews you guys have done? - Like Malmgren is probably the most important interview any of us have done. - Yeah, one of them at least, at the very top. - Yeah, Malmgren are sure for me. - They're raw shells, yeah. - I mean, I would push that question off to you. You've only done, you've only done handhold on. - Yeah, I, definitely off camera stuff. - Yeah. - And like we talked about it beforehand, specifically about Air Force stuff. That's like, that's my Tim Taylor to get specific people on camera that have worked in most programs. - Okay, you Chris. - Most important. - Yeah. - I don't know, it's hard to say because that would, that would mean that you would have to acknowledge that what they're saying is a sort of agreeable truth. - Right. - Where I'm. - Or not, it has a ripple effect. - Sure. - Yeah, yeah, that's true, that's true. I would say, I think, it's gonna set people to make what they wanted it. But I think Lou was a really important interview for the trajectory of my channel. Him coming early onto the channel, obviously got a lot of eyes on a channel. And so, believe it or don't believe anything, Lou says, regardless of that. First of all, he took his time to come here and be on the podcast, always be, thankfully did that. But the offset of that was now that this created some type of eventful thing where now people look at the podcast differently, like, oh, this is, you know, he's getting big guests. And so, after that, I was able to, you know, get some really interesting people, even whistleblowers such as Jeremy Weeks come on. And so, I think it was important in the trajectory of my channel. And it felt serendipitous the way it happened, too. I would say it. But Jeremy Weeks is another one. Jeremy Weeks is one that. - Yeah, it's a trippy story. - Yeah, super trippy. But actually, maybe Peter Curry. - Oh, yeah. - Oh, nice. Yeah. - Yeah, I feel like that one kind of, even though it did pretty well, I still think it went under the radar with, you know, what we're proposing and what was brought forward. Like, it was some physical evidence. - It was physical evidence. - It was wild. It's, you know, we're not, it's not hearsay, it's physical evidence. - Yeah, it is. - It doesn't prevailions, but it's a normal, it's physical evidence that we have. - And a normal, physical evidence that's biological. It's not just usually here, like, oh, we did mass spec on, you know, this material and that has isotope ratios, you know, whatever, you were talking about a hair. - Yeah, I was pulled off the being. - And what, what trips me out more is how it corroborates his story. And not the other way around. So it wasn't like he had this hair tested and they were like, oh, it's half Asian, half bass, it's blonde, it's immune to AIDS without the CCR5 gene deletion. And, and then he goes, oh, yeah, you know, I had a blonde and an Asian naked alien in my room and that's not how it happens. - It was tested. - It was that story first. - Yeah. - And then you get this hair back that actually kind of corroborates with the heck this guy saying. Like, that for me was the big, oh, my God moment. It wasn't even like the anomalous nature of the hair. It was like that a corroborated is a normalist story. - This is the skiff, no windows, no Wi-Fi, and ideally, no one quietly collecting your data in the background, which brings us to your phone. See, most people think of their carrier as just a company that gives them bars, but traditional carriers have access to way more than that. Your number, your metadata, your location patterns, your account information. In a world where data gets leaked, sold, brokered, and tracked. That should make everybody a little uncomfortable. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier. It gives you premium, reliable cell service, but it's built from the ground up, around privacy and security. One of their features I think is genuinely wild is identifier rotation. Your phone has an IMSI, basically a unique subscriber ID tied to your SIM. Cape can rotate that identifier every 24 hours. So to the network, you look like a different subscriber every day. They also give you two secondary text only numbers. So you don't have to hand out your real number to every app, website, store, delivery service, or random form that asks for it. An unlike traditional carriers that hold onto your metadata, Cape deletes call and text metadata after 24 hours. So if you watch Area 52 and you care about privacy, go to Cape.co/Area52 and use Code Area 52 for 33% off your first six months. Thank you to Cape for sponsoring this video. - How did you get in contact with him in the first place? And did you fly him in for Australia? - I did. - Wow. - Yeah, flew him in for Australia. I got in contact with him through, what's his name? Horse Drew. So horse Drew was the geneticist who did the tests, the genetic testimony in the hair. - I did. - Wow. Horse Drew. So horse Drew was the geneticist who did the tests, I'm on the hair. He's also been in and around the UFO space quite a lot. He's worked with Bill Chocker who wrote the book, Hair of the Alien. Bill Chocker, who's like a respected UFO researcher in Australia. And horse was also the person who introduced me to Jeremy Weeks. He was the one who decoded Jeremy's initial binary sequence after, you know, I think it was Lindemont Howe. She didn't know what to do and she resembled binary. She didn't really know how to read it, took horse like a few weeks. And then, yeah, and then CJ, you know, came out. But yeah. Outside of Tim Taylor, who would like your guys as three dream guests currently living be? That you guys would do anything to get on your pods. Okay, let's do one at a time. - Okay. - You first. - Oh man, no Tim Taylor. - Yeah, no Tim Taylor. - 'Cause that's already mission board. Thank you sir. - It's funny 'cause it's either like, you know, I either want to interview, you know, people like Spielberg or like, you know, people who are like in that like, you know, really clearly like know more than they let on. Like have, you know, clearly have some interesting sources. I think that would be really cool. And it's either that or like I always never know how to answer that 'cause it used to be like more high signal people. And now it's like, you know, my audience kind of hated on this. But I loved this interview. I just did with the SkyRolf, this DOE guy. He was, I disagree with him about DOE oversight when it comes to UFOs. But the, I like somebody who's experienced something kind of ontologically trippy, but then they can also make sense of it in some greater theoretical framework. So anybody like that, and I felt like Mount Vernon was like that too, where you had the like meta perspective of like being able to make sense of it. You were like an actor in the world. You weren't just identifying with the experience in this way that, you know, that's the only thing. And you're sort of like, you know, I don't know, like like selling everything off of that experience or turn philosophy for it. Experience or turn philosophy for it. Yeah, but being able to make sense of it and you experience something really trippy, yeah. Yeah, Spielberg's a good one. Spielberg's a great answer. You could get so much value out of even just asking him, "Hey, why did you include Lockheed and TRW "in close encounters? "Why'd you have those crates?" He probably would have some interesting answers. The whole project's serpo. True. Tell me about the lore behind the Abyss creatures. Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, he, that was James Cameron, but still, I mean, Spielberg was a producer. Yeah, but Spielberg was a producer on back to the future. Yeah. You know, and then obviously E.T. is another one that is pretty on the nose in terms of like, you know, them studying this being and what not. I think in that same vein, if we were to stick around, you know, the entertainment industry, I think Chris Carter, for me would be one of the two. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. His same questions go to him. In season finale, that's Tim Taylor mentions in American Cosmic, which are book. The American Cosmic, where they're taken to the place. Yeah, and he's like, does that place look familiar? Yeah, they're like, well, this is actually a season finale of X-Files, and it's an actual range. Yeah. So he must have had, especially after that pilot episode. Yes, yes, one episode, one deep throw. That's, that's the biggest it. It dude, it, they go to an Air Force base, and they see testing of like, light triangles. Yeah. Blipping around, and then this massive, you know, what looks like a TR3B or, you know, military. Very similar. Very similar. And after that, immediately, it was like, freak of the week for like, yeah, free, free to feature. Yeah, exactly. That craft, the artwork from that I talked about this all the time was, was commissioned to an art forensic artist named Bill McDonald. He also designed a lot of the craft for like, Roswell, depictions, and so forth. But Bill McDonald, that craft, he called it the XF-131 Supercentile. And that was based off of a meeting with two Lockheed and two Norfolk engineers at a Denny's in Antflow Valley in 1992. These engineers worked out of Helen Dale and to home. So you can look up the original artwork. It's called the Tehachi Pee Triangle, dated 1992 from Bill McQuatt. And this is allegedly a real craft. That's crazy. I don't know that. And I've talked to Bill McDonald as well. He won't give up the engineer's names. But, you know, as, according to him, this is a real craft. Might have been in this diner right here. There you go. Well, the, well, the, the other thing about the X-Files is they were real, you know, the guy Bannister was this guy at the FBI. Ironically, Lee Harvey Oswald was working out of his building at 554 Camp Street, number 544 Camp Street in New Orleans, which is crazy. But he is the X-Files guy. He was the guy, like, this guy Fred Christman worked under him. He was another FBI guy who showed up at the Morielin incident, which was literally like adjacent to the Kenneth Arnold sighting, which is another UFO experience where somebody said his dog got killed by UFO slag coming down or whatever, so that it's just weird. So yeah, it's a year point. Like the X-Files was a thing. He's paying homage to this real thing. Yeah. And then, I mean, even you look at Nick Pope, who is, you know, kind of the, the, the scully or the molder of, of the UK at the UFO desk for the M O D, which is interesting too. He had a 1-800 number, essentially. It was like this phone number that you would call in. And, you know, I don't know what to make of that. I didn't know what to make of that when he told me. And like, that does sound like a position they would just give someone to like, all right, you just do this. But then accidentally falling into some real stuff. Well, it's like, it's like the weird desk at the CIA. Exactly. But they say, you know, they say kick green was on it. Then they say Ron Pandolfi took over. Yeah, it seems like one of your desk. Yeah, they seem, but like that one almost seemed performative to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, with a public number. But then in, in that same vein, like you're getting calls from actual experiencers and he's actually going out and seeing these things. Yeah, right. Which I think is, you know, I would love to have that job. That's like a dream job. Yeah. Have you reached out to Chris Carter? I don't know how. I've had like people I know try to reach out to him. And David to Coveney. Oh, nice. Yeah. What's your name? Jillian Anderson. I'd love to talk to any of them. I'm sure David to Coveney would probably have some really interesting stories. Well, I think he's a UFO skeptic is what I hear. Oh, that's interesting. That would make for a good conversation. Yeah, I wonder if he's still a skeptic. I think it's tough now, right? Like especially if you're always associated with that and then you see all this stuff coming out and the news and everybody's coming up to you being like, oh, they got your fox molder. And then he's, he probably feels some pressure to have the correct view on it. And like now I do think the consensus is shifting. Five, six years ago, I don't think it was, you know, popular to say you believe in that stuff. But now, how many times do you think you just ended a conversation with, oh, truth is out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. It's a good choice. Or like the dude who was smoking the smoking man? Yeah, the episodes. Yeah, yeah, that's the like, you probably know some show. Molder's legacy contact, that's the least guy. They've always been here. They've been here for a long time, guys. But they also say that like alien hybrids change smoke or whatever. Like that's like one of the most dangerous things. Yeah, that's so why. Polaris, how about you? My number one would have just be boring. It would be of course, Dave Grush. But in conversation with Dave Grush, not so much an interview but more so like a fireside chat type situation, just like three, four hours of talking about legacy programs and legacy history. Have you not had that conversation with Dave Grush? That's not that's not. of my story to tell. - Okay, no, but you said that would be your number one thing you'd like to do. - Yeah, yes. - Oh, I see, I see. - Yeah, to do a video to sit down like three, four hours. - Oh, I see, I see, it's just-- - I would pay to watch that. - I would do, that would be my number one dream. I mean, all the way from like, - I feel like I would prior to today. - I feel like, I feel like it'd be dangerous for Dave Grouch to sit down with you. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Same reason Dave Grouch would probably sit down with Pablo Zar, where it's like, you guys are gonna talk about some stuff that like literally you should be talking about. - Yeah, of course, 'cause it's like, I've never had a clearance. I can cross lines that he can't without being thrown in jail. - You have a button with him. - Yeah, like, it's just a slap, the button went too close to that. - Yeah, 'cause like, I can cross lines that, you know, he will be imprisoned and made an example of if he crosses. - Yeah, yeah. - I have a ability to cross those lines. So yeah, you're right, it 'cause he-- - No, the way it is. - Not a single way. (laughing) - So, let's do it. (laughing) - That would be my dream. - Just of any guest's living or dead. - Be amazing. - I would love that. - All right, let's go down the list. - I think that, if that conversations have, it would be a sign that we've made a lot of progress because, you know, like, he could be super open about a lot of like, the deeper stuff. - Yeah. - It would be like a very good indicator. - Or dates and program evolution, which I just think with how much information has flooded the zone would be really helpful. Just to have a clear and concise, this is how some of the legacy programs were founded. This is how they work. This is what they've evolved into. - Well, you're doing the open source version of what he did at the UAPTF, I think. 'Cause, you know, he was known as like this, really like, you know, his mind was a steel trap. And he was just this like, big database of like all this stuff, you know? - But you're both kind of like, cut from the same cloth. - Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. - Yeah, there's like, when you put two phones together and just have AI talking to each other. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - It would be a great conversation. O.D., I'd be really intrigued to it. - Dude, both of you nerding out on acronyms would be the best. - You could probably host an hour-long podcast where you say no word. - We could speak for entirely code and acronyms. - That would be a dream. - Yeah, really. - Oh, dude, right here in this diagonal, let's set it up. - I would love to. (upbeat music) - My number two, oh man, I deal guests. So tough. I think maybe somebody at the like, okay, if there is still a majestic 12, you know, like Helen Carter. - Yeah, I would put somebody like a Bobby Rayanman on it. And I'd love to interview somebody like at that level where they have somewhat of a top of the pyramid view. You know, you always hear these analogies of like, you know, it's like a bunch of blind men touching an elephant or different parts of an elephant. It's really hard to like piece together what's actually going on. And you even had, you know, when Jake came on my show and Ross is, it was like, I'm the fingertips, you know, and it's like, we don't have all the context. And to me, the most interesting stuff isn't the like functional, like what's going on in the form of a crash retrieval program. Like I'm pretty sure that is going on. It's the metaphysical truth behind it. - What is going on? What is reality, yeah, yeah. - We're touching, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, who would, and you think Bobby Rayanman would be the closest one to give you a broader sort of, - I don't, and that's where I don't know. - And it's interesting 'cause I think with like the Malmgren thing, like in retrospect, I think he was had much wider of a scope than I ever would have ever imagined. - Thank you, thank you. - Thank you. - So, here I get. So yeah, so I think like you never know with these people. You know, you know, maybe like there's a, and then you would guess because he was, I think he was, - Thank you. - Well, he's an essay director and deputy director, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Just insanely spooky. Now, if you were to interview, I'll thank you, sir. If you were to interview, I want to choose it. - Oh, no, that one did. - No, this one has sauce on it, I think. - No, it's got a little bit of cheese. - Yeah, that's much better, too. - Oh, it does. - Oh, no. - Oh, shit. - It's all good. (laughs) - Do we have one without cheese? - We do. - Nice. - Oh, nice, nice. - It's amazing. - They'll start you out. - Thank you. - You're finding it a little bit. - Cut that out a little bit. - Shit. - We're finding it. We're finding it. - The deepest, the deepest. - The deepest. - The deepest bowels of Jesse's. - Which one is which? - This is the one. - Thank you, they're gonna, Ishu is gonna target me with some cheese now. (laughs) - I know. (upbeat music) - So Jesse, if you were to interview Bobby Ray Inman. - Yeah. - Of course, infamously J Anderson has and gotten some eclectic soundbites out of him. What would you do differently or ask differently to try and pry more answers out of him? - Because I'm on the mind of you. That's a great question. You should do this. - That is a great question. (laughs) - I think you'd have to hit on, touch on real specifics. - Right. - As far as, you know, overlap that he's had in his career with specific people where it seems like, you know, but even then, these guys are trained professionals and I think where, - Especially him. - Especially him. And you, it's a, like, these people are running your questions through a filter above like, can talk about, can't talk about, if I can't talk about it, I'm going to, you know, if I'm gonna look like a sick a fan in the future, I'm going to express openness on the thing I can't talk about. And it's a computation. And they're professionals at that shit. - Yeah. - And so, like, you really have to read the body language. But I do think if you wanna, you know, kind of, you know, make him squirm a little bit, you gotta, you know, bring up specifics, I think, around like, you know, overlap. But even then, you're going off of things that are like, you have two or three data points, you know? And it's ultimately, it's like an open source knowledge on this stuff is a fucking minefield. - Yeah. All you're gonna get is like a little smile out of the corner of their mouth when you ask, like, some cute question. They go, like, in the back of their mind, they're like, you know, yeah. - You could have a whole conversation about his time as director of Nero. - 100%. - National underwater reconnaissance. - Only formed Nero, right? - No, Nero was formed in 1969, out of the need to coordinate Navy and CIA DSNT reconnaissance activity. So up until 1974, Nero was a tug of war between the Navy and DSNT. And I can't remember the specific secretary of the Navy that kind of wagered some control back, but yeah, around that time frame. - Andrews, yeah. - Well, I'd also wanna ask about his time at SAIC, specifically his interest in psychotronic weapons. - Yeah, wire cut as well. - Something we don't hear about often either, and maybe there's just, I don't hear about it much, but what about the Russians? Are they not doing any underwater reconnaissance? Are they not doing like water crash retrieval or like water, even like what Nero was doing? Like, don't they have their own? We never hear anything from them in terms of the oceans. We always hear, you know, crash. - I think one of the questions is, is did the Americans beat them to the punch? Because under Nero, like the Ivy Bells programs, and basically various programs to put reconnaissance sensors and activities on the seabed, or must the entire globe, maybe we beat them there. So we have denied territory with a lot of the oceans. - I think they have to have a program because they have nuclear subs. And if you have nuclear subs, then you're gonna attract this stuff, no matter what. - Yep. - And that's, you know, the thing, it's a true bubbling, true blow, and then underwater. And then they also have this mountain range, called the Yamantone Mountain Range, where they seem to study sort of extended electrolyte and amic scale. - They're Area 51. - It is. - It's a nickel mine, it's near Kazakhstan. - That's the dude who was on Ross Coltards show. He had, there's this lady, she was like this opera singer. Her father was a janitor. But what she thought was a janitor. And then when he died, he left her with like all of these files. And it's a book filled with diagrams of UFOs and like trippy science. - Yep. - And they refer to the UFO. - Gina. - Oh, Gina. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - That was fascinating. I was like, oh my gosh. Like, and, you know, Ross told me to this day, no one's been like, oh, that's fake. I think there was no, there's been no deep hunks. - Well, the Russians also, there's this great book I've skyved Tom Aguston, that talks about this on basically great race to like take over the tack of calmer stop, like the secret Nazi. - Oh, yeah, yeah. - And if you look at the Avrocar Project in the US, it was literally this like, we tested flying saucers. That is not like debatable. And they're, it just, they couldn't fly do this thing called the Coanda effect. But we got all these like guys from calmer stop, the secret Nazi stuff like Mita and we stole all Victor Schauber, yours IP using army counter intel stuff. All of these guys that were working on reported flying saucers in Nazi Germany, we took over here through Avrocar counter intel, other means. And so they, I think, got a lot of this stuff too. They were called like the Habermoll Designs or the Habermoll Project. And I think there are exotic lineages of science in both places. And then on the, are they interested in underwater stuff? Dennis Asberg, the Baltic Sea anomaly, says that they rushed there, how to presence out there? Well, yeah, I mean the Baltic Sea is obviously a very strategic importance and it's seems like they're interested in this object underwater. - That makes sense. - Okay. - Number two. - Oh, me? - Mm-hmm. - Thank you. - Thank you. - Everything okay? - Everything's delicious. - Mm-hmm. - You know? I don't know if I'd go towards, you know, anybody that I don't know. This is living, like living like we'd have an opportunity to. I think Dan Burish. - Nice. - Yeah, Dan Burish would be a big, and obviously, you know, Bob Lazar is up there. I think he's everyone's number one. - Yeah. - But Dan Burish, I think, because he's limited himself to not doing any of these interviews ever. Like, you know, since the early 2000s when he came out, I think he would probably have, I don't even know how that would go down. There's so many weird stories I hear around Dan Burish, like that he's under house arrest somewhere in Canada, and that, like, do not approach. Like, he's being literally babysat by, like, XMJ 12, like, type cats that you can't even get close to. - That's MJ 12, guys are babysitting him? - Like, cat and like-- - MJ 12 deputies. - Yeah. - Like, you can't-- - Like a horseman arm. Like, once you're out of the MJ 12 scope, you're not allowed to just lead a normal life, like, you're under, like, a mafia type of a surveillance, and so he's got, like, yeah, that type of activity around him. - But the story is though, one of the weirdest, so strange. - 'Cause there are things that, like, corroborate other people's accounts incredibly. There are credible, you know, the fact that where was that university that he went to? To, like, do the public speaking event on molecular biology? - I can't remember. - And that's on paper. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You know, like, he was, and he was stony broke. - Yeah, and then, which is, you know, a place where a lot of really bright minds went to discuss things. - Extremely bright minds. It's like a center of, like, really spooky physics, I think. - That's right, yeah, so. And then afterwards, to have his, you know, schooling completely erased, not unlike Bob Lazar, where you can't track him, but we do have this talk that he did at this really prestigious, you know, school. And so, you know, how do people reconcile those two facts? Like, you have really, really interesting cooperative evidence of this guy being who he says he is. Even, and then, you know, take it a little further, he also got into the program kind of the same way that Bob did through. - Who's he, Edward Teller? - Yeah, Teller. - Yeah, yeah, he recruited him. - Yeah. - And, or according to him. But then there's also, I think, a photo of him with Mike McConnell. - Who's that NSA director? - That's what Navy Admiral-- - Yeah, Clint from Night Shift is pretty positive on that, but I don't think it's conclusive yet. - Okay. - But he's really high confidence on it, but I don't think it's been definitive. - 'Cause this researcher, Brian Jackson, says that McConnell viewed him like a son he never had, and then his son died in a weird way, and it's like they swapped souls or something, and I don't know what to make of it. - And what's also interesting is that, Bersh claimed that these beings were sort of us from the future, right? These two different timelines that have like separated, and that both of them ended up being these breakaway civilizations on, you know, Zeta or whatever, or Ryan, and that they're trying to help us steer clear of what is like imminent doom for this planet, which would have been having Hillary Clinton elected. - No way. - Yeah, that's like-- - That's the one thing that would have like screwed our planet up was having Hillary like it. Now it's you, look at Hillary, and you know, we talk to a lot of people, it seems like she was gonna be the disclosure of it. - Yeah, we're efforts to do that. - Right, so it kind of corroborates what Dan was saying, whereas like, oh, that might have absolutely destroyed our timeline. - I have to say some reason. - For some reason. - That is hilarious. - It's like Hillary Clinton is the apocalyptic-- - Right, right. - And like yet to no one's surprised, I think. - Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, naturally. - Yeah, I mean, and what, I mean, there's probably an Epstein connection to be made there too, you know. I'd be curious to know if Epstein was interested at all in Dan Burish or Bob Lizar. - Or we should search that. - We should search it up, let's do it right now. - Okay. - Jesse, could you pass me the catch up, please? - Got you, really, sir. - 'Cause I mean-- - Just be careful. - Bob early 90s would have been like a celebrity. - Right. - And this guy, you know, Epstein was obviously highly interested in trippy physics. So, would you tell me yesterday, about like the Los Alamos scientists and the physicists? So Epstein has like hours recorded with this guy, Steve Bannon, who's probably a spook himself. And, you know-- - He's like a Trump sky, right? - Trump sky, operative from 2016 era. They're talking, and he goes, why'd you, you know, put Zoro Ranch where it is in New Mexico? And he starts going on about retired Los Alamos physicists being in the proximity. And he wanted him wanting to have conversations with these guys. And he're like, what the fuck? 'Cause he's literally targeting our most sensitive programs. And by the way, Bill Richardson, I think, was secretary of energy under Bill Clinton, I believe. He was a Clinton founding, for sure. And like, he was governor of New Mexico. And so, I think there's some sort of connection there, too. - Let's see, let's see, Bob. - There's a lot of Lazar, but then like there's this artist in Karen Lazar, there's all these others. I'm just gonna look on her, Bob. Lazar, no results under Bob Lazar, but plenty of results under just Lazar. And I'm sorry, Bob, I'm not trying to imply that you know, if your list makes just a thing Rob, you can buy that. - But if they were speaking about him as well. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Because, you know, he sends out feelers. - Look up, look up Tasamir, which is zero point energy. 'Cause I've heard rumors that Epstein was obsessed with the Tasamir. - So K-A-Z-I-M-I-R? - C-A-S-I-M-I-R. - Couldn't have been further. (laughs) - Tasamir, loading. Oh, weird. - Come up. - No, it's just my phone, just like bugged out. Classic, no, wait. When you look up Epstein's interest in zero point energy, I tell you, everything's frozen, and now I can't do anything on my phone. - That happened to me in my McKinnon interview, which hopefully will be out, but. - Yeah, Gary McKinnon. - And I filmed it. Yeah, I was like, I can't, my phone is completely frozen. - Is it gotten to your studio? - Yeah, yeah, that happened to me, too. No, no, I went out to UK. - Wow. - Wow. - It's over time here. - I put it up a, dude, I really look forward to that. - Back to it was awesome. - See, you can watch it. - It's out now. - Oh yeah, it's out. - It's out. - And the future now. - It comes up a lot, but Anthony Kazamir is a name. - And then Hernando, Kwella, Huxley Kazamir. - Okay. - And so these are all names. - No, it's about Kazamir effects. E, F, M, B, C, T. - I was about to fact, Jesse. (laughing) - The T, H, A, it. - What about anti-ravity? That's interesting. - That'll probably come out. - Let's see that. - Oh, gravity. He holds these gravity conferences, whatever, but. - One result. - Okay, where? - Pull it up now. So from Robert Coon to Jeffrey Epstein, an exchange between, so it starts with Jeffrey being like, I deeply appreciate your strong intention with the bold interviews of the best physicists to be, quote unquote, closer to the truth about our universe and its basic physical mysteries. Below is my new J Fizz published article. Oh, this is Dr. Uri Gribov, sorry about that. I was wondering. And then I guess, Jeffrey was C-seed on this. So this is going, yeah, they're talking about breakthroughs. And he goes, I waited years this opportunity. My model predicts the matter, anti-matter, anti-gravity, et cetera. That was simply stupidly forbidden to publish in the most of, in the most of dissent physical journals. Why stupid? Because this barrier existed without any experimental verification of the opposite case, matter, anti-matter, attractive gravity. But now it is published in New England's publication, which might be interesting to look into. - That is interesting. I wonder why he says attractive gravity, 'cause that's what gravity is. I think of repellent gravity as being anti-gravity or something. - Oh, well, yeah. Maybe A and B. - Oh, yeah. - The A wave and the B wave. And so then Robert Coon writes in C.C.'s, Jeffrey, and says, as you know, Jeffrey and closer to the truth, so it sounds like an organization, are collaborating on a major series of PBS on breakthroughs in mathematics and other areas. And we surely want to feature you in one or more mathematics episodes, hopefully. So, okay, he was also very strange and we should look up close to the truth. Yeah, Gribov is a physicist/artist in Germany with an idiosyncratic multiverse theory, idiosyncratic multiverse theory. Oh, one of my number one interviews, a Transurfing reality, Vadim Zeeland. Oh, yeah. I want to interview that guy. So bad. You talk about that a lot. I love that book. And he's, I think people say it might be a collection of people. There's one photo of him with these huge sunglasses on. Nobody knows who he is. Disappeared. Oh, yeah. Isn't there. No, I was thinking of stock in the wild pendulum. I'm thinking of the other guy. He'd talk bent on me. He died in the plane crash. Yeah, he's super chippy. He's super chippy. He's on an interview. I watched one. And I was like, this guy kind of like knows a lot. He knows a ton. Yeah. He was like the Israeli version of Puharic, and they were like very close, and then, yeah, a lot of people said. Are you convinced Puharic wasn't also. With Thai stays, well, I mean, he was working really closely with. I think he was C-I-L, and I think the C-I-A and so on, it's always been really close. Yeah. Not a body body. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's an interesting cap too. Puharic, extremely interesting. Yeah. All right. What about you, Gerb number two? This will be another kind of boring one compared to what you guys said, but. No. He would be a man by the name of Edward C. Aldrich, also known as Pete Aldrich. This guy was a ghost guy? No. We talked a little bit about it last night, but this guy was a secretary of the Air Force and under-secretary of the Air Force. His CV is equatable only to somebody like Bobby Ray and men or Donald Kerr. I mean, this guy was CEO of the Aerospace Corporation. He was. Tim Taylor. He was a senior, I think, board member at LTV Aerospace, which was eventually transitioned to E-Systems, which was a C-I-A shell company and then bought up by Raytheon. But as far as I understand it, Edward C. Aldrich was pretty instrumental during his time as under-secretary of the Air Force for helping programs kind of morph, legacy programs, and take advantage of expanding SAP security controls to kind of hide itself within other programs and program cover offices. And there's actually a very real tangible observation of this. I can't believe this is unclassified, but if you find a document called the History of SAP AA, which is the administrative assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force, which is a pretty high-level position within the Air Force, specifically the headquarters of the Air Force, there were what was known as outside activities within the SAP AA. And these were created in Pete Aldrich's time, not necessarily created, but kind of morphed in Pete Aldrich's time, which was a collection of Air Force activities that existed outside of the Air Force that the Air Force had administrative and operational control over. Now, the interesting thing about this is these programs that were stuffed under SAP AA, the administrative assistant of the Secretary of the Air Force by Aldrich, bypassed the SAP AA's Special Access Program, Moversite channels, which is the SAP HAZ. Sorry, I mean, SAP AAZ, my mistake, which is info-slash. I was going to correct you and slide your slide. That's like a big, that's like a big light bulb going off that under Aldrich, he kind of morphed these outside activities under cover offices that bypassed traditional Special Access Program Moversite channels. That's like a really big, like, red alert that- Where did you get that information from? From that public history, and that was doing stuff from my Air Force video, which a lot of it talked about SAP AA, because that SAP AA position, two senior positions there, I mean, by the name Russell E. Weiler in William E. McClure, are likely, one of them is likely the gatekeeper that Chris Mellon was talking about back in 2024. Do you remember when Chris Mellon posted? Yes, do you remember when Chris Mellon took to Twitter, he posted an image in response to Sean Kirkpatrick leaking? Chris Mellon and Kirkpatrick's signal DMs, it was Chris Mellon talking to a senior USG official and saying, "Hey, I think we tracked down the SCS, senior executive service gatekeeper in the Air Force," named redacted. Thanks to some work by, like, a good guy named Alex Katz and myself, it's either former SAF AAH, sensitive activities, Russell Weiler or AAC, William E. McClure, most likely. So it's really interesting there. I would love to- Of course he wouldn't speak about it, but to understand that role- With more outside activities? He's like, "No comment." Yeah, don't comment. He got me. No comment. I think one of the big conversations that needs to happen next, at least in my lane, with the lazy program, is finding out how they morphed and evolved from what you can consider the Manhattan Project 2.0 to a blind man touching the elephant. Yeah. And I think that's a very critical milestone. And why there are no physicists, I get this, also should be. There's this video, I just did with Eric Weinstein and Eric Davis. And Eric Weinstein is like, "You're telling me these crafts break physics, and there are no physicists on the program." And Eric Davis goes, "Yeah, I checked with the guy." He was exploring this through NIDS and ASAP, and met with a lot of these people, met with five people on the crash retrieval program, and they all said it was just material scientists and no physicists. And Weinstein, I think rightly so, is like, I know some of the smartest people in the country and they have no idea any of this stuff is real. Why are you, if you're struggling to get it to work at least in its most vital form, the way it was working as the NHI had it working or whatever. Well, it's clear there. What's the reason? There is no good reason. It's actually like a brain dead policy. It's just you had to think of a reason. What would it be? They're afraid of some shifting tactics out of hand. No, it would be, it would be something like with the invention of the atom bomb, not only did like, experimental, experimental physics become dangerous, but theoretical physics itself became extremely dangerous. And part of mentalized, you know, certain science itself. Exactly. But literally like the top layer of like, you know, think if theoretical physics is like the guard reals to reality, like they literally, and this is the kind of Weinstein narrative somewhat, is like, string theory was pushed out as like a limited hangout where like you bump up against the right stuff and they farm you out and maybe then they, you know, they work with you. They extract you. He thinks Renaissance technologies, this hedge fund that this guy Jim Simons, who contributed to fundamental physics with the turn Simons equation and also was an NSA code breaker and then starts this hedge fund called the Medallion fund, which just 30% year-over-year returns since 1989, literally made a hundred billion dollars. Oh my god. And has the collection of like, it has all the collect the most differential geometers in the country. They all go there and you have to sign an NDA for life once you go and you're like, you're in or you're out sort of thing. And then Stony Brook, he oversees. He was Stony Brook and he also oversees Brookhaven National Labs. So it was this kind of iron triangle. And then the guy, David Spurgle is the guy who runs the Simons Foundation and he did the NASA UAP review panel. He fucking was in charge of it in 2022. This is a lot of crazy connections. I mean, well, the interesting thing is, it's crazy. Holy. It seems like the programs used to have top minds and physicists, right? Yeah. Like a premium example of that we were talking about with Kingman, like Jesse said, but that Chris Mellon exchange is Dr. Ed Doll. Dr. Ed Doll was a primary figure named in the Kingman crash by primary witness Arthur Stanswell, Jr. And Dr. Ed Doll was a premier physicist that worked on the Manhattan Project. And according to Stanswell was a pretty important figure to the early efforts of legacy programs. He would go on to service like executive senior VP for TRW on their mission systems group component and so forth. So it seems like over time that that that that mid century had a lot of had a lot of these guys and then something happened to where they were like, we cannot have these guys. And so I wondered what that was, whether that's an event, you know, some type of leak or whether it was just the, you know, taken that information, projecting it forward, meaning like what happens if this gets into the wrong hands type deal. And we need to really clamp on this. The only way we can do that is to have people who don't understand what they're looking at. Look at this stuff. Yes. Because otherwise it breaks reality for everyone. And the number one strength theorist over the last 50 years is a guy named Ed Whitton. He's known as like the Michael Jordan of strength theory. Like he's so much more advanced and smarter than anyone else. His father was working on anti gravity at Martin corporations, R.A.S. division, which was literally their, their anti gravity division group. And he's on, he's giving an interview for the, I think, American Institute of Physics. And he's on video saying, right airfield commissioned me to do gravity. And now if you email him, he's like 103 or something. Yeah. He goes, I can't talk about that. I'm so sorry. It is wild. Yeah. Funny to mention Michael Jordan because I am the, I am to strength theory. What Michael Jordan is to strength theory. Me as well. (upbeat music) - Okay, Jesse number three, who's your third? - Before we get to number three, I got a question for both of you. Have you ever had to cut something out of a podcast? - Yeah. - Based on like classified stuff. - They said you can't put that in there. - Because it's classified. - I went too far, I shouldn't have said that. - No, no, I've cut stuff out of what I perceive as my own safety, lines across that. I don't really want to attract the eye or of certain individuals. - Of your own self. - Yeah. - So not necessarily. - We can't really do that. - But I've cut stuff out like of what I say at the end. - So while editing, you're listening to yourself and you go, wait a second. - Yeah, like maybe I shouldn't do this. - It's really? - That's not my point. - I mean think about the shit that you know where it's like, you know, I say. - I get it. - Everything's like a shot across the bow. - But he's also so bold in these videos. - I can't imagine what he's holding back. - Yeah. - Yeah. - A good example is in the Air Force project, I put for the name Terry Phillips as the gatekeeper, people shouldn't know in the same sentence as Gwen Gosh, or that. - Yeah, yeah. - There's other names there that right now, I just, I am a little too worried to talk about. - Yeah. - Right. - 'Cause they're bad people. - Terry Phillips is POS, a real bastard, but it was that acronym. - Yeah, I don't have a test on the channel. - It might be the like, every line out. - But just the stuff that I kind of worry if I put out there, I'll either attract the eye of people I don't wanna attract and kind of take their fire, or I'm just kind of worried for myself. - I would not assume that they haven't heard about you. - That's true. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - How about you? - There is one instance I can think of where somebody was like, this would like endanger lives if you put this out, and it's like, and it was like a, I think it was like a reasonable, - Who was the guest? Can you say that to the guest list? - I don't know, I feel, I don't know. - Is it at all? - No, I feel like if I, no, it wasn't at all. But I feel like if I said, it would be some names up. - What's that? - People would blow him up. - Yeah. - So it's a him. - Yeah, I've liked, not that many. - I mean, I'm glad that, um, wow. - Yeah, but, and then the age of the lives of whom, of the people involved in what he was talking about. - Oh, yeah. - He was anywhere near it. - Yeah, 'cause I, you know, - How many syllables in their name? - All right, come on out. - And then a couple of other times, but you never know if it's classified, you know, like if it's like because it's classified, - Right. - But I've had to cut out something. - Yeah. - John Ramirez. - Interesting. - Yeah, it was the only time I've ever had to cut out something, you know. I haven't done that many government officials. I haven't had that many government officials that I know of. But, you know, Lou is one I gotta say that like when he went in, he's like, you ask me anything. I don't want any of the questions beforehand. And I'll respond how I can respond. Although he was very evasive in a lot of the questioning. - Yeah. - He never asked me to cut anything out. - And he has a playbook at responses. - That's right. And you can tell when you listen to it. A lot of people just roll their eyes halfway through. They're like, "We're not getting anything out of this guy." - That's the easier type. - But John Ramirez did, there was things that we touched on. And this was around the time Matt Brown had come out with the Immaculate Consolation document. So you can extrapolate from that, what you will, I will get into it, but there was some discussions there that he had to double check and got back to me with a negative. Yeah, I have to. He's like, "I'm not sure about this. Let me just check it." When he got back, he's like, "No, 100% you gotta cut that out." - Yeah. - He's like, "Actually, most certainly cannot talk about this." - Which is interesting because of course, his part was cut out of the age of disclosure, right? And I don't think so. - He talked about the same things on age of disclosure. - Oh, that's probably why. - Oh, interesting. - Also 'cause he started, he does get into it. - I mean, it's intelligence, it's related to intelligence gathering, which is what he did his whole life. - It's an asymmetric capability. - It's exactly and it's very sensitive. - Yes. - And something being used currently, so it's probably, it's literally national security, reasonable. - Yeah, nothing to do with like spooky UFO stuff, but I mean, potentially a little bit adjacent maybe yet. - Yeah. - Okay, number three. - Number three. - I gotta thank you guys, and you guys go for it. - Okay. - I'll think all time. - I would do, I would want to interview the folks. - Mmm, it's a good one, the current one. - Yeah. I actually have a crazy story. - Leo too, he's an American. - He's an American. - Yeah, fun podcast. - And there's just all this stuff around the Vatican knowing stuff about UFOs. - Having a slice of Chicago deep dish with him? - Oh, wow. - Yeah, sick. - Yeah, V-sack, yeah. (laughing) - That's it, that's great. - And like, I just think there's so much, a magenta crash was under, I think, was it Pope Pius? - Pope Pius, the 12th, it was like under his jurisdiction. And then he helped back channel the information back to the FDR, yeah. - After the war. - Yeah. - 'Cause he would have been part of the axis. - And then he went in the crash. - Totally, and then he was in the crash, yeah. - Yeah, no, thank you. And then you have Pissolka talking about access to the Vatican archives. And you know, I heard going with Tim Taylor and him that they know much more than meets the eye. You're all good. - Yeah, yeah. No, and the whole, you know, you look at the institution and you look at obviously, like we'd mentioned, like you'd mentioned, like with Diana, like a lot of the research and the words they use and stuff that was potentially changed in the translation to sort of mask a lot of this stuff, like the word cloud, apparently, was actually like, object or something. And like, yeah. - And so they replaced it with cloud and-- - Roman, she flaming, blazing Roman shields and drums and whatnot. - And then they have, and I think it's like, the rough translation is like St. Anne's Cathedral. There's once a year within the grounds of the Vatican, there is a UFO research group that meets up and discusses these other stuff. So I went, I'm coming out with a Vatican and UFO's documentary about the magenta crash. And I interviewed Marconi's grandson who says that Marconi was part of RS-33. And this is the most embarrassing part of the, so I'm in the Vatican as part of this, like, you know, event. It's like some like interdisciplinary faith thing or whatever that I was invited to. - How did you get access to this? - So this dude that reached out around my Peru mummy's dock was connected with Kyrsán Ilium Zinov. - Yeah, the president. - The president and-- - Micronesia or whatever. (laughs) - I forget this. - Oh, Kalmikiya. - Kalmikiya. - Yeah, please get it right, Chris. - To some of my apologies. - They are a population of 300,000 and they're beautiful people. - Yeah, nothing. - No, definitely not. - All right. - And he got this, like, elaborate, beautiful. So he was also president of the World Chess Federation Fede. - Yeah. - He was like being president of FIFA. You meet everyone. - Absolutely. - And he's the, he's the nicest, coolest guy. I bonded with him. Like, I was like, this guy's so cool. And, you know, maybe, you know, they have different standards of, you know. - He might not have done everything above board as dictator of his country. - Sure. - I'm not gonna, like, you know, I'm gonna comment on that. - I gotta say that. - To me, he was, yeah. - That was one of the most groundbreaking episodes that I've ever seen, just like on another note, and I'll let you finish, but that was insane, dude. Seeing you up there on, like, some type of political throne next to like this president, you know, we are. - It dude, it's so, so, so surreal to see you. - And he said so many insane things in that interview. - Oh my gosh, so many insane things. - He said he spent a ton of time with Kissinger, and Kissinger seemed to know a lot about the UFO stuff. - Oh yeah. - And he said that there was a president of another country who he was friends with who got abducted on a fishing trip but was afraid to speak about it. And I'm like, I know this guy's not, you know, maybe, maybe there's like a little bit of embellishment going on, so he's not lying. - Yeah, he's not lying, he has no more event there. - And more, more than his own experience is these little interactions with other world leaders and stuff that really goes, oh, this is just a boys club. - Yes. - Of like, of information. Like, these guys love sort of sharing these little winks at each other. - Yeah. - Yeah, their bodies, like this type of deal. Like, it really cements that for me when I watch that interview, I was like, oh yeah, once you're in, you're in. - Totally, totally. - Yeah. - So yeah, so, okay, so this guy who hooked me up with that interview, he was, so yeah, so he had this invite to this vatican event or whatever. And it was like, faiths of all, it was like every religion or whatever, representatives would go or whatever. And Kirsten was there and he had this big chest piece that he wanted to give to the Pope. And the Pope ended up like kind of screwing off. And then- - Not a fan of chess. - What's that? - Not a fan of chess, or. - Yeah, not a fan of chess, apparently. - That didn't care, yeah, yeah. No, he didn't engage with anybody. And, but then there are some people like left over from the event, like who were in it, you know, some official looking cardinals or whatever, who were walking kind of the grounds, like shaking hands or whatever. And so, do that invited me and Kirsten are like huddled up there. And I see them talking to one of them. And so I go up and shake the guy's hand briefly, Like, you know, me. him for a second and he gives him the chest piece because he's a representative of the Pope and then they kind of walk off. And then somebody comes to me after he goes, "You know who that was? You should, you know, his hand you shook." I go, "No." He goes, "That was the Cardinal Secretary of State," which is the number two to the Pope and has more political power than the Pope. The Pope is like the figure head and this is like a complete form. Like I'm asking about you, but I don't know what the guy's face looks like. Yeah, you don't have a set of trading cards while the card is on. No, I don't. And so I'm like, "Oh, shit," and then I'm like in the back of my head, I'm like, "Well, at least he probably doesn't know anything about UFOs." And then I find out like a week or two later that like in certain instances, he's expressed interest in UFOs. But you know what? What's that? You know something. You know something. Something of interest. Anyways, I still, I want to interview one of you. One of the red guys are the white guys. That's really good. Yeah. I can't wait for that doc. Yeah. It's going to be fun. Super exciting. It's going to be cool. Oh, man. Yeah, especially because since you made the reverse of that doc with the sort of like Satan worshipping rocket builders, you know, you have the dichotomy here. It's really interesting. I would also have a religious figure, but mine would be the, I heard about, you know, this carthusion monk that apparently lives in like Vermont. Yeah. Where did we hear John Stewart? Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I remember that when he was on your paw. Yeah. And a lot of people were going to roll their eyes at the sound of this guy's name, John Stewart. I love the guy. I think he's fun. He's hilarious and he's got gumption and he doesn't give a shit. You know? He's interested in himself a useful idiot, which I think is refreshing. It's refreshing. No, it's better than the people who don't know. Yeah. It's like I disagree with John on a lot, but I'd love to get dinner with him. He just seems like somebody who you would enjoy spending time around in a personal setting. Definitely. And he's a showman. Obviously he's a wrestler, politician, car salesman. He left. I was out late last night. He has this video. He came out with saying, Whitley Striever is a CIA because this is going to break the internet news of 2026. And he find out that he's quoting William Cooper, the whole of the mail hard. Yeah. I texted Whitley. I texted Whitley. I was like, is this legit, dude? And he's like, he goes, that's absolutely not saying anything like it and Whitley's saying it's absolutely not. So you mean it's absolutely not. How many times did John refer to himself in the third person? I have a lot of fun. He's never going to point the wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But your episode with him was amazing. And I think it showed how deep at least in that isolated context, the alien interview, that guy knows his shit. He's done a lot of legwork on that specific video and probably uncovered, you know, potentially some of the most, I mean, he came up with a list of names that were in that room. You know, in those names, he then independently sought to verify one by one and was met every single time with either, I'm not talking about this, don't call here again. Or, you know, that was my husband, he would never talk about work. So it was, it was really interesting, like you looked at it and you go, oh, there's definitely something here. But then he mentions these. So apparently how this goes down is the CIA or the DIA at the time, Hires Remote Viewers to remote view, you know, targets or whatever. Now they're getting pulled in the direction of this monastery in northeastern United States, and this tall, this sort of big white building is what they're saying. Something you're seeing is that the people that are there are going to help you, those are the people you need. Right. So they were sought out by, first of all, remote viewers. Now we reach out to Joe McGonagall about this because that would have been roughly around his time. He said it rings a bell, he would get back to me and he got back to me and he was like, "No, we were actually tasked for a monastery in that area, but it had something to do with like hauntings, which is also really trippy." Well, and I think it had to do with, it was like, it was a private thing, it wasn't like a government thing, so it was like post-stargate. But regardless, he said these two, they took six of them and they had them work as counter intel. It's sort of remote viewers and trained them and then two of them were really talented and those two were flown out to ask for, apparently, meant to communicate with this being. And so John said he has a guy on the inside, he won't tell me his name and I've like, credit to him because I've in person too, just give me the name, like give me, give me something dude. I gotta go, I gotta go see this guy. I find out the name of the monk, but not the name of the person who interviewed the monk. So that part still is a little nebulous, but apparently this monk is like 97 years old, he's in good health, still alive, and spilled the beans and said, "Yeah, do you, he spilled the beans?" No, to this guy that John was getting his information from. Have you reached out to this monk? No, and I know probably a lot of people have, I heard through, well, through John, that Rick Dodie has like, apparently like, sent pizzas there and like letters and facts. He said this? No way. Yeah. To like, try and creepy. Yeah. And so that tells me is that, oh, Rick Dodie also doesn't know about this and that he has a genuine interest or, you know, some other nefarious connection. Yeah. You never know. But I just thought dropping that name was kind of interesting, but he has some other person on the inside that ended up writing a letter now. I've penned a letter. I have a letter ready to go. I put the video out and I thought, I'm going to wait a bit because we're probably going to get inundated with the details. And so I'm going to wait a bit, but you can't contact them in any way that disrupts their valve silence and you, I mean, you can't infer any type of cover up conspiracy, anything outside of like, perhaps historic, like historic purposes or faith purposes. Those are like, that's the bare minimum. But as soon as you talk about anything else, you're going to get shut down for good. So how did you approach it as a historical basis? Yeah. Pretty much that I'm a researcher and that there were rumors circulating that during the Cold War era that some people within certain agencies would have hired people with monistic ties to sort of aid in some of their operations. And now we're hearing more fringe conversations around this matter and I wanted to give you a chance to set the record straight about any involvement that you might have had during that time, you know, to correct the history books was like, you know, the way in. But I haven't sent it yet. And I'm a little reluctant because I know that like if they don't answer, they're just going to leave it on there. Yeah. I think you got to do it though, because he's in '97. Yeah. Yeah. But interesting. That guy I'd like to talk to. Like he talked about that. He talked to him, though, if he's in the bowel of silence, without that question. Right. So apparently, allegedly, according to John, he broke his valve silence to answer the questions. And that guy has been in contact with this monk's family for a long time. That's a fun guy. Yeah. He would have been, you know, the communicator, which is so crazy to think about it's wild. Yeah. Yeah. He's saying some trippy stuff, like, you know, how they were, you know, literally, he was like listening to in his mind and like talking to the general at the certain kernel or whoever it was in the room at the same time, like real time translating. It's just so crazy. Wild. But, you know, science fiction, reality, I don't know, but I would, regardless, if this person is real, which I think he is, and if he's lying, I would love to hear a lie from a 95-year-old monk. I would love nothing more. Well, it makes intuitive sense. Like, you have the telepathy tapes, and you have like the idea of like one, one sense goes, like all those kids are, they say autistic, but usually they're autistic, they're mostly nonverbal. And so, this guy's taking about a silence, and so there's, there's definitely something around like an accentuation of senses when something else goes, and it's spending that much time just hermetically sealed and meditating. Yeah. Correct. They're in constant contemplation about God. You're probably doing it. You're paradigm is going to look much more like one of these beings, likely, correct? Or, if not, it's going to be just deviated from a normal human beings, and you're going to throw a person like that at any entity to try to translate, for sure. Yeah. That's, I guess that's the catch 22 about taking that out of silence, is that you do accrue all of this amazing knowledge through your contemplative practices, and your deep pondering of spirituality and the source, and all of this, but at the same time, you have no outlet. You can't articulate it. Right. Well, it's like this with like Jesus and the Buddha, and it's always like ears to hear, like your communication is only as good as like the measurement instrument on the other side, and how much it resonates. And so like, there's going to be this like translation error, like if you get to a certain level of wisdom, like it's inherently not gonna like. trickle down in this like one-to-one way. - Yeah. - Trippy. - That would be, I would love, love if you were able to get in contact with that month. - Yeah, say. - Who knows? He's definitely not watching his podcast so we can say whatever we want. (laughing) - Fuck that guy. (laughing) - Even if he's not talking about like the easy way of you, it would probably strike me down. (laughing) - I think you'd probably have a better chance communicating with that person in an astral form. - Yeah. - You know, I think you suggested that. - I did, I told you. - Yeah. - Yeah. - You shit, yeah. - It was so funny 'cause when I broke this story when I heard it first from John to Amar, our buddy Amar, he was in a monastery, in the oldest like monastery in the world, like St. Catherine's monastery or something, during that time. And I was like, whoa, I told him about this monastery. He's never been in a monastery. And it was the last day of the year. It was January 31st. And I was the last person he would talk to before the new year. And it was just like this weird, trippy synchronicity. - Where we at number three? - I think so, yeah. You guys have the poem. - Now they're boring names. - Yeah. - Exactly, I'm gonna say it, other boring names. - Ager, major colonel. (laughing) - 'Cause you guys have the poem, you guys have the monks, and then you got me, who's gonna say Donald Kerr. - So that's like a huge step down and interesting. - Wait, who's Donald Kerr? - Donald Kerr was, he was, you know, either director of the NRO altogether, or some pretty senior elements of the NRO. He was within DS&T, on Miter, EG&G Special Projects, VP, or director. - Okay, this guy's director of Los Alamos. - Whoa. - I swoop, swoop, swoop. - Yeah, my DNA shot. - The most juicy, robust CV I've ever seen in my life. But the problem is with some of this guys, just like the, the monk, Donald Kerr is ancient. So a lot of these guys, so his Bobby Ray in minutes, it's kind of a race against time. Hopefully their testimony has been taken in and saved for historical purposes, but the guy's super old, and from what I understand, he's been one of the most ingrained legacy people. As you can just tell from his background. - I would watch eight seasons of Gurb doing deathbed confessions. - I've tried with multiple people, and they say that they will tell me on their deathbed, but not prerecord to release on their death. - They don't know when they're going down. - Exactly, they all think they're gonna live longer. Everybody who dies thinks, oh, when I get out of this, I'm buying an RV, and I'm traveling the world. - Yeah, this is it. - There's one very specific person that has, in my opinion, one of the most worthy testimonies that must be heard. And he says, you know what, when I'm dying, I'll summon you to my deathbed and I'll tell you, but the guy's a really bad health. And so I don't want him to be gone as my friend. - And you don't want to be on your dying? - Yeah, yeah, well, I don't want him to go 'cause he's my friend. It'd be like, there's no guarantee we could have that conversation with his poor health. - What's making him so reticent in sharing that now that he's in decent health, does he not trust you or does he not trust that the information will fall into the wrong hands? - Yeah, it reprisals. - We, during the course of our communications, there have been several instances where, you know, some keys will be dangled above him, saying, hey, you better stop or like we're taking away your pension 'cause this guy retired at a very high level within a certain element of the armed forces. And he has family members that rely on him to live because of disability, so he's ultra worried because he's disabled himself. That pension gets taken away, he can't live, those members of his family can't live either. So that's this big pain point that they love to target. - This guy seen bodies? - Yes. - Whoa. - That's the guy we talked about last time, yeah. - Yeah. - Seen bodies, seen text, seen craft. - Yeah. - Seen our craft, too. - Is this the same guy that Greer mentions? The Greer Remedies guy? - You know what, I have to say about Greer and some of his testimonies that he's collected. Some people will be very shrewd and approach Greer from a doctor patient privilege because, of course, Greer is a licensed doctor and they'll enter into an agreement. - What is he, I didn't know that. - Yeah, they'll enter into an agreement with Greer where Greer is in a position of like a healthcare taker. - Yeah. - And so all of their communications with Greer will be protected via HIPAA. And so in Greer releases those, he's in direct violation of those laws. So Greer has collected and distributed testimony illegally on several occasions of people who approach him under the guidelines of HIPAA. And he takes him upon himself to release that and talk about that. And that is both highly unethical and just wrong. - And so you didn't answer my question. - I have no further comment to say there. - It sounds like I did not answer the answer. - A lot of people have come across Greer's deaths. - Yeah, sure. - Yeah, he was like the dad. - Including. - Yeah, and of late because there was a time at which, like we've talked about before, I think he did. The right thing by platforming guys like McCandlish on the National Press Club in 2001. - On the other one. - But yeah, 2023 with my career, but also done the wrong thing of taking people's testimonies and expanding on them to suit his needs. - Wow. - And probably, I don't know. That's a pretty big claim, too. And that's like, you know, is that something he's nervous about? Like, what do you think? Like, what's the-- - Like the hip-a-violet issues? - Yeah, like, why would-- - Oh, he's not because he's continued to do it. - Well, I think if you were trying to protect the program, I think you would use him now as a flytrap. - He's been legally mandated to take down their documents because he's been threatened with legal action because of the hip-a-violation and he still talks about him. - Yeah. - And there's weird stuff that you've pointed out, go missing in, like, really key interviews. Like, he did a great thing with Jonathan. - Jonathan, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - And-- - Hey, that was a good job. - Well, Steven Greer just cut all these parts of the interview, and he's also, I think, Lord-- - Helm Norton, - Admiral Helm Norton, and the UK who's had the, you know, the-- - That's a big fleet there. - Well, thank you. - Thanks so much. - And we'll see you coffee soon. - I'm good with coffee. - Yeah, you're right. - I'm good for now, too. Thank you. (upbeat music) - You know, James Fox got that interview, and then Steven Greer was just like, "That's my interview." - And he, like, cut James Fox's parts of the-- - Yeah, you did that, but-- - He did that, but it wasn't. - And I talked to James Fox about, I said, "Hey, do you remember shooting this?" And he said, "Yeah, of course." I said, "Do you know Greer cut out all of your parts?" They said, "No." - So crazy. - Wow. - 'Cause you can hear in the interview, not like the interview you're posted to YouTube, but in the archives of the DPI archive, you can hear sort of the raw interview. And at certain parts, James Fox will start to ask a question, and then he'll just cut. - He's acting like a temp. - Yeah, he's like, "Come on, dude." - It's okay, he wasn't there. - He can squat 700 pounds or whatever? - Leg press. - Leg press, sorry. - Big difference there, actually. - How much can you like press? - I don't know. Leg press much because it doesn't do anything. How's leg press gonna help you in athletic movements, functional movements? - We're a big guy. You don't do any weight training? - I do a lot of weight training, but more so compound movements instead of like a leg press. - You're training on a deadlift? - Yes. - How often? - Jiu-Jitsu four times a week. - A week. - Two times a week. - Wow. - Wow. - As you could probably tell the truth. - You're trained six times a week. - Where do you have time? - That's crazy. - Imagine a press. - You got two to stay sane sometimes in this subject. - I agree with that. - I agree with that. - I agree with that. - I agree with that. - I do exercise. I do like three days a week. - Mm-hmm. - I just love it. It helps calm the mind. There's something about matching up with like a worthy opponent and grappling and getting to a position where you could choke the life out of them if you're not in a controlled, foreign environment. It's just like there's nothing more satisfying than matching up against somebody worthy of scale and grappling and how best it is. - I don't know. - It's solving a puzzle. It's been satisfying. - Yeah. - Sometimes. - Yeah. - It's a very probable thing. I love it. - Like bridge. - Chash, you know, a lot of people say it's really close to it. - Yeah, you looked my butt in chess last time. We played. - Same. - What do you guys do to stay sane and grounded in your spare time with this subject? - Mm. - I mean, go ahead. - I used to surf and then I went to Texas and I don't surf as much there. - How's it in California? I know you went to like Portugal. - Yeah, you did. - Surfing stuff. - That's it. - Yeah, it's surf all the time. - You're good at surfing? - I'm like, okay. - It's hard. - Amazing. But it is definitely really hard. But yeah, I'm like decent. - No, it's cool. - Yeah. - You ever encountered sharks? - No. - There's a Canadian. That's like our number one fear. - Oh my God. - That's it. - Yeah. - This is like sharks 'cause we don't have them. So we're like-- - Yeah. It's like an abstract, not real fear. Like even where there are a ton of great whites in Northern California, I think the last like death due to a great white shark was like 2013 or something crazy like that. Well, it's still not zero. - Yeah. - But yeah, I don't know, surfing, running, now, more meditating. But I could use some more compartmentalization for sure. (laughs) It's definitely spent a lot of time on UFOs. - Yeah, so easy shit. - Yeah, 'cause you gotta like, you gotta do so many things in between these episodes that people might not realize. Or might think is, a lot of people think a lot of the brunt of the work is like having those conversations, holding core, and coming up with questions. It's more than that. It's like, it's the amount of brain power it takes to devote to the subject on the off time. Like, you gotta live in normal life. And then also, I gotta guess, I got three guests coming and they each got four bucks. I gotta read at least one of the books. So you're catching up on reading during that time. And then on top of that, you're getting inundated with all sorts of other inquiries and future opportunities. And you're constantly in this world. Second, you let up. You feel like it starts, you want to maximize. You want to strike while the iron's hot, take deal. And that's tough. That's tough as a tough mental game to play. So maybe offsetting that with like physical activities is more than the healthiest. Well, that's why I don't know about you guys. But I'm so thankful I don't really spend time doing like news of the day stuff for kind of capturing news. I mean, I was just so excited. I don't know how to do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, you're going to, like, with you of those, you're going to swing at bad pitches if you don't do that. But you're definitely going to swing at bad pitches if you're trying to do like the hot new thing. We already swing at bad pitches after doing research. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. That's very true. Yeah. Guys like Vetted or even like the night shift guys, like these guys covering are psychoactive though. People covering like the today news, like, to me, when I started this channel, I did it a little bit. Maybe for two episodes. Yeah. I was like, all right. What's going on? Let's do a little roundup. And then I went, oh, and another thing happened. Another thing happened. I'm taking notes and I'm now, I have to research because the second you don't, you look like a buffoon. So I'm just like researching constantly because news is coming out daily and stuff. And I'm like, there's no way I'll ever be able to keep up with this. I am the most easily siopable person now because I have no time to research anything. And I'm constantly in your body and a priori to the whole topic, obviously. And I'm responding to every single story and I'm giving my take. And my take becomes shifted and molded according to the definition going on. Yeah, exactly that I'm consuming. And stress, it heightened my anxiety to think about, did I have the right take on that? Did I say the right thing? Oh, I made a mistake. I should redact that. These stresses, my hats off to those guys doing it. I'm glad people are out there covering that because there is a need for that type of content. I think a lot of people enjoy it. But it's not for me. It's something I have to. Yeah, definitely I don't have the heart. No, no, you do. I feel like sometimes it reduces. In its best form, it's like you're covering an amplifying stuff that needs to be amplified, especially because all this stuff gets drowned out often by light. That's true. The World War III, we might be on the verge of, other kind of prosaic political events. I think in its worst form, it's like sports center for TMZ, for UFOs. And it's like, you manage, that's right. And you manage to take this topic that touches on like, ontological truth, sacred truths, like what is reality? It's self, the most important questions. And you've managed to turn it into like this, he said, she said, like, food fight thing. And it's like, come on. That's a good way of putting it just. See, like at best, it is something that like everybody kind of wants to be updated on and at worst, it's literally like high school drama. Yeah. So yeah, man, I don't know how anybody doing that doesn't suffer from some type of, you know, off-set depression and anxiety. Like, is that what affect me? I've been, you know, I've had my best at depression. I know, I was like, when I got started, I was like, no, no, no. And I got to stay away from this. And then when you view the topic and think about it, your knowledge is as wide as an ocean, but as deep as a puddle, right? Because you don't have the time or ability to really specialize in various parts of this subject. And as we all know, it gets so weird, so quick. And all of us focus and specialize in different aspects of this topic. And, you know, we lack in knowledge of each other's topic. And there's just so much to learn about various aspects of this subject. You know, experiencers, science and physics, legacy program stuff, it'd be so impossible to cover all of it at once. That's a good point, man. I'm glad you guys are a part of it. - It's amazing. - You too. - I'm very grateful. - You're saying that. - I feel crazy if you guys are wondering. - I know. - Yeah, you go and I'll let. - Yeah, you, whoa, whoa, whoa. - Yeah, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, - Well, yeah, hey, hold on, don't leave me. - What, I will just it. - Nah, jeez, it's great. - All right, well, boys, this is delicious. And this is fun. - Yeah, this is one apple time, so fun. - Thanks for hanging out with me with the Flying Sausage, I appreciate it. - Oh yeah, thank you for having us. - Thank you for having us, Chris. - It's great apple pie and burger. - Yeah, it's delicious. - Let's get the hell out of here. - Let's do it. (upbeat music)