533: Jess Lapachinski - Overcoming Bad Shots, Building Routines, External Focus, & On-Course Mindset

Hey, welcome back to WickedSmart Golf, aka WickedSmart. This is your host Michael Leonard, and this podcast is committed to helping you play better golf without changing your swing. This episode is supported by Ripstick Golf. If you're tired of getting out driven and know your distance needs help, check out Ripstick. The best air-only speed trainer in golf and it won't break the bank. If you want to get more speed, the smart way, make sure you use code WickedSmart to save 20% on your investment or click the link down in the show notes. Alright golfers, welcome back to another guest episode. With a new guest today, her name is Jess Lapa Chinsky and she is awesome for the mental game. So if you are tired of wasting shots and making a bunch of mental mistakes and losing confidence and have no idea what to do to improve, Jess is going to help you out. So I stumbled upon her Instagram account and reached out because I loved her stuff. So make sure you follow her on Instagram, I'll link to it down in the show notes. It's just her name and she is just got some really really good stuff to help you on and off the golf course improve your mental game. So she is a sports performance mental coach and strength training coach for around 20 years experience and working with all types of athletes and students eventually started her own practice, which is known as victory lap mindset where she provides individualized mental coaching for youth collegiate and professional golfers. So she's helped a ton of players of all levels really elite players as well. And regardless, if you're a scratch golfer attending handicap, a 25 handicap, there's so much you can do to work on your mental game and that's where we have a lot of fun today. So some of the topics we are going to cover first off is having a flexible mindset. I think this is something that we really need to get in the habit of understanding how we can adapt our mindset throughout the round because as you know, golf is going to throw you some curve balls, so you need to make sure you adapt. We're also going to talk about confidence and how to redefine confidence and develop it and also make it come back to you when you are losing confidence during the round. We also go deep on negative self-talk and how that can really provide a negative ripple throughout your game. We'll talk about some pre-round and night before round strategies which are going to help with anxiety and doubt, which again, I am a huge believer of, so I think you'll really enjoy that. Plus some different off course work that you can do to strengthen your mental game. So remember guys, the mental game is the first pillar of Wicked's Mart Golf for a reason. Everyone can get better at it. No one's perfect. And the thing I think that I really have learned a lot lately throughout talking with Jess and Nick Neal and all these other guests that are not only mental coaches, but players that are internaments and in competition or have been, is that it's not like you just figure this out and you're set for life. Like it's constantly reevaluating. You're never going to run away from those negative thoughts. It's how quickly can I identify and redirect. It's how quickly can I realize, wow, I'm going down this negative way of thinking like I have and the wheels are falling off and are, you know, that negative self-talk or maybe your body language, which Jess and I talk about body language a lot too in this episode. So remember guys, there's a lot we can do. And if you are not taking your mental game series, in my opinion, you are never going to play it to your potential. And lastly, just a quick update that I've been working hard on the new book over here, which is actually all about the mental game. So I am basically pulling the best lessons I've heard from so many awesome guests, things I've tested out on the show, things I've learned over my 29 years of playing to create the book, which is tentatively titled Wicked Smart Golf Wisdom. So I'm excited for that. It's again going to be short, easy to read, mental game tips to help you before, during and after the round. But until that is released, don't forget that Wicked Smart Golf, Wicked Smart Golf 2, Wicked Smart Golf 3 and the Wicked Smart Golf Fitness Formula is all available on Amazon or Audible. So if you're ready to take your game to the next level, make sure to check out those top rated books. I appreciate all the people that have already bought and shared with others and left all the reviews. It means the world to me. Again, Wicked Smart Golf is all about breaking 90. The second one, the sequel is all about breaking 80. Third one is all about tournament golf, and the fourth one is all about mastering golf fitness routines so you can hit it longer and avoid injuries. So check those out. They're also going to be linked down in the show notes as well. Now let's get into the episode with Jess. Okay, I'm really excited to bring on golfer and sports performance, mental coach, Jess Lapachinski. Thanks for being here. Thanks so much. I excited to be here, Michael. I paused. I was like, Oh, no, don't screw this up, Mikey. Did the boss an accent for a Bostonian? I know, I know I had to make you proud there. So thanks again for being on the show. I love your stuff on Instagram. I was really excited to reach out to you. Thanks so much. Yeah. Likewise, psyched. Be here. Share a little bit more about how you got into the sports psychology side and mental performance because I always like to know where we get our backgrounds from this crazy game sometimes. Of course. So I have worked in sports and worked with athletes and coaches for about 20 different years, 20 years in a variety of roles. And for about 12 years, I worked in a private boarding school and worked predominantly with youth athletes and really kind of started in strengthening conditioning and did some leadership development works and student athlete development, also did some coaching myself. And then when I was teaching ninth grade health education, I remember just kind of going through some processes with my students and in different curriculums. And I was noticing that sometimes they would would struggle or pause with these kind of basic resiliency skills and learning how to bounce back and learning how to, you know, just kind of embrace the difficult moments in life. And I knew that I wanted to learn more about this. And so I went back to school, got another master degree, studied sports and exercise psychology and have since been in private practice working with a variety of different athletes. But I just, you know, it's funny too because once I once I got into sports psychology, I realized that so much of my athletic past kind of made sense. And so it was the path that kind of connected all the dots for me. Yeah. It's funny how we can look back and have that 2020 hindsight, you're like, man, I wish I would have had this skill, you know, in that tournament or that certain shot. It's always funny how we're always learning about this game. What does one thing you think that like separates a lot of like mentally strong players versus ones that you feel like maybe falter sometimes on on the back night or when the pressure's on? I think there's a lot of competitive golfers out there who know that the round is not going to unfold exactly how they they want it to. And I think at every level of the game, even down to amateurs, you see that when people have a flexible mindset, when they're able to embrace the fact that not every shot's going to be perfect, they're able to really kind of dig themselves out of these, you know, their scenarios on the course and they don't expect everything to be perfect. And that's a huge, mental framework that I see from some of the most successful golfers I work with. That is a, that's a really good insight because I remember when I first got back into golf like 10 years ago and started getting into tournaments and I'm learning about visualization and all the things you're supposed to do to get your mind right. And I'd always visualize the perfect rounds and then I realized that that is never going to happen. And I kind of realized, maybe let's start, you know, handling adversity in these visualizations and kind of thinking ahead. It's funny though how we think that you're going to have to use perfect rounds, which I don't know. I haven't had one yet in 29 years. How about you? Yeah. No. No. And I think when everything's going right, you just kind of ride it as long as you can. And you know, that's, that's the key. And then also expecting, you know, you can never expect that the next round is going to be as great as the last one. I know it's the hardest round is the round after a good one. Yeah. Very true. What, uh, what do you think in terms of like your, your approach to like confidence? Is it, is it dealing with mindset off the course? Like tell, tell us maybe a framework you take some of your clients through or how you've kind of shaped your game and how it might have changed over the last 10, 15, 20 years of all your research and work with a variety of players. Hey, golfers. Just a quick break from the episode to remind you that if you are not dialing in your pre-shot routine, you're just making this game even more difficult because as you know, the brain loves to wander during the round. So instead of letting it think about your results and how the score is going to turn out, focus on your routines, but there's a lot of mistakes that you need to avoid and things that you want to do to make sure your routines are helping and not hurting. That's why I created a free pre-shot routine cheat sheet. You can download it by clicking the link in the show notes or going to wickedsmartgolf.com for slash routine dash checklist. Now back to the episode. Sure. Well, I think a big misconception that golfers and really kind of all athletes tend to have is that confidence comes from doing well and that confidence comes from success. And when athletes and golfers can start to think about confidence as a mindset, that's when we start to see some really great things happen. What I mean by that is when I think confidence is more about knowing that when you make a mistake, you have the skills to dig yourself out, knowing that when you, you know, you falter, you hit a bad shot, knowing that I've been here before, I know that I can get myself through this and thinking in that forward mindset instead of expecting that result or instead of expecting, you know, a birdier par or whatever it is that a golfer is kind of aiming for. If you can get yourself into a mindset to think that I can handle whatever comes my way, that's where confidence truly comes from. I like that. Having that, I'll figure it out, that kind of mentality. Is that something you think comes from experience? Is that from mental rehearsal? Is that more diligent practice sessions like where do you think that starts to develop off the course or what strategies do you recommend for players? - I think preparation is a huge piece of it. So if I think of my own golf game, the shots where I tend to either feel less confidence standing over, oftentimes I haven't practiced them, right? I mean, a lot of golfers will point to bunker shots as something where they think, oh gosh, I hate the bunkers or I'm not confident out of the bunker or I can't get out of this, right? And oftentimes that's because how many times do you see people practicing bunker shots, like almost never, right? And so, you know, when it comes to preparation, it's like, if you see that shot, voice in a round, you're not going to be very good at that shot unless you actually practice it. And so I think, you know, preparation is a huge piece of confidence, a huge component of it. And then I also think the way that you approach the game mentally has a huge impact on your performance because if you want to find evidence of not playing well, you'll find it. Whereas the same goes for if you want to find evidence of playing well, you're going to find it. And so, you know, we can all walk away from rounds with either, you know, oh, these are the three terrible shots I hit today or these are the three shots. I can't believe I hit today. Well, however you frame your round, it's going to carry into the next one. The bunker shot definitely made me chuckle because I had a plus Andy cap over here, had plenty of sand issues. Finally, I had a really good lesson. I've had too many good lessons I feel like, but knock on wood, we're getting better. And I had to really get up and down in the tournament last week, so I'm going to try and embed that into the subconscious. But I know that obviously putting in the work, figuring out like you said, you're your struggle, whether it's the bunker shot or the tight T-shirt or whatever it is, you know, putting in the work is going to help off the course. But let's say you still have that shot and maybe you were practicing it, but it's still happens. So maybe it is that bunker shot for players. Anything you recommend for them to still walk into that is it extra breaths or routine or what do you recommend when they're still feeling a little uneasy over certain shots? - Yeah, that's a great question. The best advice I would give is you got to talk to yourself intentionally. So if you have a tight lie and it's just whatever the shot is, it's your thinking, oh goodness, how am I here again? That's okay to have that thought to begin with. And then after that, it's like, all right, what actually am I actually going to take? What behavior do I need right now? And then start talking to yourself intentionally. This is where pick your spot. This is where I'm going to hit the ball. This is the club that I need. This is the yardage. I mean, all of those things just try to run through the analysis of the shot and then stick to your process. That's another thing I see a lot of kind of amateur golfers just don't have a process and then they expect magic every time they hit the ball. And it's a tough bit to play around like that. So yeah, it's just like the one thing I've swear to God and put on my tombstone at this point. It's like just stick to your routines, guys. That's like the number one thing I want right now. It's so easy. You see the best players in the world of, and amateurs at the highest levels are all doing it. But a lot of golfers, a lot of amateurs, like you said, kind of stay away from that. I do want to talk more about self-talk because I just love this. And I used to have horrific self-talk. And I know a lot of us struggle with it. Now, if you hear me saying something, it's going to be wildly positive. I think Tony Robbins brainwashed me at this point into thinking it. What are some of your thoughts on, like, you know, let's say you are a negative self-talker. I feel like that happens a lot. I hear that a ton actually in DMs too. What are some things you recommend with players that they know that that's an area but they just can't seem to get out of their own way with it. Yeah, it's so common to just kind of beat yourself up. And, I mean, here's the thing. We hear so much about positive self-talk. And I take a little bit of a different approach. I don't think, I mean, we're too smart to lie to ourselves. And so if you hit a shot and it's awful, you know, telling yourself, oh, that was a great shot. Like, that's not going to help you in the moment, you know? It's just not going to help you. And so it's all about, you know, when that negative thought pops up, just taking an intentional route. So say you hit a poor shot and you miss a green and you're in a bunker. Just saying, if that first thought that pops up is, you know, oh, my goodness, what the heck are you doing? Can't believe you're in this bunker again. You hit it there every time. Just kind of allow that to happen. Just kind of allow that. Because the more that you try to push it down, it's just going to keep coming back. And so just kind of allow that to happen. And then take a pause and a breath. And once you start walking, once you put your club back in your bag, that's when it comes to next shot. And then you try to go through that analysis. Then you try to go through, OK, this is what I'm going to try to hit. There's the pin. I know I need to land this X. I mean, you just kind of try to go through the analysis and whatever the next shot is. And so I always tell golfers, you can't stop yourself from thinking negatively. We don't have-- it would be great, but we don't have that level of control over our thoughts. But it's not always about the first thought. The more important thing is about the second thought. I like that. So it's letting it happen. So that way, you're not playing. Try to fight it. And then it's just getting into what you can control. Yes, 100%. Well said. So yeah, it's just about letting it happen. And here's the thing. When we hit a bad shot on the golf course, it's OK to be mad. It's not OK to throw your club or make a scene and scream. But it's OK to think, oh, really? Or women I play golf with, I'll say really just. And then I'll just kind of move on. And it's just like, I'm not angry. It's just kind of like it's a reaction. Oh, really? Am I there again? And then you do your best to move on. And it's got to be intentional. Because if you let your mind run itself, it's going bad. Flases fast. So-- Well said, do you feel like a lot of this negative self-talk happens off the course, too? Is that something you have to kind of check in with your students on, if they're beating themselves up at work or with family or stuff like that? And then it kind of leaks onto the golf course. Because I found that it's rarely a terrible self-talk on the course, but like the exact opposite off the course. Yeah, that's a really good point. So I mean, how we are to ourselves, how we treat ourselves is really kind of consistent through every phase of our life. And so if we're beating ourselves up about little mistakes or if we're anxious about social interactions or kind of everyday things, that's probably how we're going to kind of treat ourselves when it comes to sports and performance as well. And so yeah, I mean, I think about it this way. If we had a friend who was super negative and critical and they were with us all day every day, we would get really, really annoyed with that friend. But somehow we think we can treat ourselves that way and talk to ourselves that way, and it's acceptable. And so I also think, especially with some of my junior golfers, a lot of times I'll have them keep a self-talk journal and to write things down. Because oftentimes we don't even realize we're doing it. Yeah, it just becomes second nature. It's kind of like just who you are. And so it's yet become aware of it, I like that, especially for juniors too. Why do you think it happens more with junior athletes? I think with experience comes in understanding that we're going to hit some poor shots out there, no matter how great or how talented we are. And so I also think with juniors, it's once you start to have some success, you expect to kind of find that consistency. And in my opinion, golf is one of the hardest sports to have consistency within. And so there's a struggle there. And it's a natural, understandable struggle, but there's a struggle there. So self-talk, body language, breathing. Where do you rank those in terms of like which one you would like players to focus on the most? Oh, man, that is a really hard question. Or how could they work together? Yeah. Yeah. You know, I guess with all of those, I would probably say, I mean, if you were to ask me what's one skill that you wish every athlete had, I would say self-talk, the power of self-talk, because I think it's so influential in how we perform. So I would probably rank that number one, knowing that we need to breathe to survive. But I would also say body language is really powerful, not only for yourself, but for your team. I actually heard Rory McElroy say this one time, and I love it. He said something that he always says to himself is eyes up always. Because he said, I keep my eyes above my shoulders, because if he hits a poor shot, or if he's hearing it from the crowd, or if he's just kind of having a tough round, he would find himself kind of slumped in looking at the ground and walking. And he said, when your eyes are up, you're scanning, you're breathing better, your shoulders are back, your posture's better, and you're just carrying yourself in a more confident way. And I loved when he said that. I just found it so insightful because it's so true. And not only is it body language for you, but in some of these golfers who are playing team events, or maybe they're playing a high school, or a college golf tournament, where your score contributes to a team, it's really important to have good body language for your team and your coaches. And so I would say if I had to rank them, I would say, self talk, body language and breathing, but that's just maybe based on the skills and in what I'm able to kind of work with when it comes to performance training. I love it. Yeah. Wish players would focus on a little bit more of all three of those versus, you know, worrying about another swing tip from YouTube, which is actually where I kind of wanted to go next is a lot of golfers are just playing mechanics out there and forgetting that we're actually there to play golf. I just got done with 182 whole bender for 12 days, two tournaments, practice rounds. Like it was just the crazy amount of golf and I swear to God, I had no swing thoughts for all of it. And I played some pretty good golf. But people still want to fight me and say, God, I'd be thinking about I need something. So what does your take on swing thoughts is a different for each player or what are some good ones or do you recommend avoid it? I just love to kind of explore more on this topic. Yeah. I mean, first of all, if something's working for someone, I don't usually, you know, it's not my job to go at that and tell them, no, you know, that's not working for you, right? Like if something's working for you, go right ahead. But I will say when, so we can either focus internally or we can focus externally. And so when it comes to swing thoughts, if I'm kind of starting from scratch with a player, one thing I will encourage them to think about is external focus. We want to, we don't want to be thinking about our backswing. We don't want to be thinking about where our hands are. We don't want to be focused internally because that tightens us up. And when that happens, we hesitate. Our swing becomes mechanical. And so the focus for me is really not internal when it comes to actually swinging the golf club. The focus is external. I mean, I say to myself sometimes before I address the ball, you know, if I'm lining my shot up and I take my deep breath, as I walk towards the ball, I say, why not me? Why not today? And I, I love saying that. I say stay in it to myself. Just kind of stay in your posture, stay in your swing. But usually it's, it's external focused, meaning I'm not thinking about the mechanics of what I'm doing. When I'm around the green, I say to myself, just good stroke, just kind of intentional thought, good stroke. That's all I'm trying to do. Let's get the ball rolling on the line. So that's what I, that's, if I'm going to have a swing thought, it's going to be that. But I'd love to hear what, what was working well for you this weekend. For me, it's all about target. Like I just feel like if I'm just thinking about the target, I feel like with putting, I try and always find something in and around the, the cup and just really just keep thinking about that. I'm always thinking with like, hey, let's go in at five to six or four to five or, you know, try to give myself a little window where I see it going in. And then if, if I can find like a scuff mark inside the cup or a little dead piece of grass or a little piece of grain, when I'm like doing my two looks, I'm just like all I'm thinking about is that. I mean, I was thinking, I got a putting less than maybe a month and a half ago. It was mostly set up stuff, but like, I was not thinking about any of that stuff when I was, I was pouring putts in and it was just like really fun to see. And the same thing with full swings for me, I like to just try and find like something really easy, like a, you know, a different type of palm tree or a different type of cactus or a power line or something that's like, when I look up, I just can't miss it because to me, if I try to get technical, which I haven't for years, probably why I started this brand because I'm like, man, I just feel like so much, you know, people are just trying to guide it out there. And I just love to see a target. And I know some players are more target oriented than others. But for me, that's, that's definitely helped me kind of tap into my zone and the science supports everything that you just said, picking really small targets. Because if you miss that really small target, the ball is probably still going in the cup. And I think a lot of golfers just look at the cup. Well, if you miss, you know, the cup either side, it's, you could really, but poorly miss. And the same thing, when you talked about, you know, a small piece of a cactus or a side of a cactus, right, you're not aiming 160 yards out at a cactus because if you miss that cactus, you could really kind of go offline. So finding that small target, that's, that's huge. I can see why you're, you're doing so well around the greens. Yeah, it was nice to see it. It felt like some courses set up easier for it than other, sometimes you see the break more. It was nice when it was going in and fun to kind of like just remember that it's not like about trying to have the quote unquote perfect stroke because I recorded my stroke before the final round because I was like, I'm rolling it really well. I want to get some, like, you know, figure this out. I'm not going to try and look at it before or anything. I just kind of want to have it from my memory. And I mean, it was far from what I think is like what a quote unquote perfect stroke is, but I was getting it in the hole. So it just kind of also gave me more proof that you got to just get it done your way. I mean, you got some guys and girls on the tour that you're like, maybe like Scotty Sheffler, you wouldn't think, Oh, boy, I'm going to teach that swing. But it's working pretty well for him. Right. Yeah. We ain't fixing that one. Yeah. What would you say to players that just get like to worked up then with mechanics and like trying to create that perfect swing? I mean, I kind of think that's funny because we have such a limited amount of energy and especially mental energy when we're on the golf course. And so, you know, when you're thinking about course strategy, when you're thinking about club selection, you're thinking about a million different things. And then you're going to add kind of swing mechanics on top of that. It just seems like that's exhausting. But I, I see it a lot. I mean, it's funny. I, if I'm out playing around and keeping my score, I'm not thinking at all about my swing. Like that is the last thing I'm thinking of because, you know, I remember reading at one point, I forget who said this, but it was like the goal of golf is to get the ball in the hole at the least amount of strokes. The goal of golf is not to hit every shot with every club that you're supposed to hit it with. And that is very true. I mean, think about how well that, how much that helps your golf game. And so I, and I feel the same way about about swing mechanics. I mean, there's a million different ways to hit a golf ball course. There's some that are better than others. But once you kind of get a swing that's working for you, it doesn't always have to be analyzed. Yeah. One thing I had, Dr. Michael Lardin on last year who created the book, the Mastering Mental Golf, Mental Scorecard. And he kind of recommended players thinking more about their mental process versus like their actual score and their, their swing, what do you recommend players to think about that out there? That energy is very limited, especially when it's five, six hour rounds playing in tournaments. You got people watching. You got so many other things going on. Like, what do you recommend your players to kind of focus on? Or do you give them any sort of advice before they head out for maybe a two day tournament or three day tournament? I always say nothing new on game day. That's, that's number one. Like why are you, you know, putting on brand new shoes or trying out a new, you know, grip or something like that, like nothing new on game day. So I say that a lot, you know, just kind of, you're not going to learn anything on the practice tee within an hour of a tournament that's going to help you. And so, you know, that's, I just, I say, you've worked so hard. Just let it fly. Just have fun out there. I mean, I don't know about you, but I play my best golf when I'm just having fun with a group that I'd love to play with, you know, that's, that's the essence in the magic of this game. And when players can kind of tap into that, we see great things happen. And so yes, it can be difficult, but I just remind players, stay committed to what got you here. And just let it fly. I like that. You had nothing new on game day. That is. That feels like something Tom Brady might say. I know. I would say. Maybe I got it from him. Who knows? I like it. We'll give, we'll give Tom some credits. Yeah. Uh, with, with that too, I think that's, you know, something, nothing new on game day. What if you're having a really terrible warmup? For me, honestly, I don't mind having a bad warmup because I think I've had better rounds after bad warmups versus vice versa. But I know some players get a little, little spook sometimes after, you know, hitting a couple of nervy shots on the range or you're worried about, you know, the better ballstrike or next to you. What do you say to someone that maybe has a, a shaky warmup? It's a good question. Because I'll ask, I had actually had a client recently tell me this. They said, you know, I, I wasn't really hitting the ball that well on the range and they went out and shot a great round and I said, okay, well, now you have evidence that you don't need to hit the ball well on the range to go out and shoot a great round. And if we can actually remember back, I'm sure all of us have instances where we can find evidence of us not hitting the ball great on the range or sinking puts on the practice screen before we go out and play and so I don't necessarily make a connection. I, I hope golfers don't, don't always make a connection there. It's easy to do, but again, I mean, it's something I say all the time to athletes is whatever you're looking for evidence of, you're going to find. And so if, if you want to tell yourself that I'm not hitting it well today, you will probably find evidence of that. Um, yeah, that's true. What about you? Do you have some, uh, some memories of some rough warm-ups for some great rounds? Yeah, I mean, I, I've played a handful of tournaments where I've gone out and just not hit it well or you hit a shot and you think, where the heck did that come from? You know, or it just feels weird. You don't even need to know where the ball goes to know that it wasn't going to be a great ball. And then again, that's where that's intentional self talk comes in because you've got to remind yourself real quick between the practice tease and the first t-box that, hey, I'm going to go out and let's just see what we got today. We're going to have a lot of fun and let's hope that's the last of that, but that's that can't be that can't be the narrative for the day. How do you suggest players kind of evaluate the round mentally? I'm a big fan of tracking stats obviously to get some objective data, but what do you think for players? Let's break it up to three rounds, right? We have the fantastic round, like one of your best rounds ever, you know, you're definitely your handicap movement in the right direction. You have your mediocre rounds, which, you know, just kind of a little bit of this, a little bit of that, and then are like really bad rounds where you're like, why do I play this game? I'd love to kind of get your approach on how we should analyze those. Yeah, so the easy one to toss is why do I play this game? Because we all have those rounds. It's much easier said than done, but you just got to move on, because if you decide to kind of stay there and dwell over every shot, you're just going to get yourself completely stuck, and you're going to see more of that. But just saying, you know what, that was terrible. Let's, let's move on. Always 24-hour rule. Give yourself, you know, 20, depending on the level of tournament, right? Hopefully we're not doing this for every single casual round of call, hopefully, because that would be really, really rough. But, you know, 24-hour rules, like be upset if you shot a really poor round for yourself in a tournament, be upset, and then you got to let it go, right? Unless you're going to throw all your clubs in the trash on the way out, like we're going to play some more golf again. So that's kind of easing it a little bit, not trying to avoid it. Yeah, I mean, I think you can't get too attached to a score. You can't get too personally attached to a score when you know that that's not reflective of the golfer that you are. And so if you can learn something from it, great. Otherwise, move on as kind of as quickly as you can. Same thing with kind of the bread and butter rounds that we always kind of shoot, right, where we're not breaking any personal best, but we're also not threatening to throw our clubs in the trash. You know, those are kind of the ones that are like, all right, you know, I'm putting together some good shots, and I've still got some some stuff to learn. And I think sometimes the magic for me comes in when you can hit the ball, how you want to when you want to where you want to. That's when we see some really great things start to happen on the golf course. And whether that comes in one or two puts where you think this is exactly where I'm going to hit the ball and you hit it there. Maybe it goes in, maybe it doesn't. Those are the types of things where you start to learn. Like I've got I've got some serious command over my golf game. So those are the types of things. Again, no matter what round that's in, those are really good to kind of really hone in and keep track of those. But when it think when we think about analyzing our golf round, it's always like what's one or two things that we did really well. And what's one thing to kind of to work on and one focus for the next week or two. But otherwise, if you if you're stringing poor shots together out there, there's there's no reason you don't need to dig dive too deep into into that one. Yeah, it's it's just funny how this game, you know, like you said, you have those times afterwards, you're just you're just thinking too much and then you kind of spiral and then it leads to more bad downs, especially tough with like a multi day. If you have like a member gas two day event or you have a, you know, a couple day college tournament or something like that, you got to you got to find a way to kind of bounce back quickly. And and the cool thing is that every day is a new adventure out there. Right. It's so true. I'm going to turn the same question on you. What did you, you know, what was working so well for you at your tournament? And what do you kind of take away from that from this weekend? It's so funny. I literally recorded a 56 minute episode solo episode just about it because I was just every every day. I was just writing down so much stuff. And it's like partly for content, but partly for my own game. And so I I even did video like kind of notes to myself because last year I got second. I got second again this tournament. So I I'm so close right there, but there were so many positive things from it. So yeah, for me, you know, I was talking, I wrote a lot of strategies because it's like the same course. So I'm just little things you forget about when you, you know, don't play a course for a year. So strategy was there. Also just noting like I was super, I hate the word nervous, but it's the easiest one for people to identify. I was super nervous on certain shots, but I hit really good ones. So I was really like just always reminding myself like we always think that I'm going to get to this zen level where I'm not feeling anything. And you know, then I can hit a good shot, but it's like you can be nervous and still hit some really good shots. So that was that was one that I was really excited about. And then just my routine felt so dialed like I just felt like it was the same eight second process like you could have put a stock lock. If my parents would have been any good with their cell phone, we would have got some footage with it, but they were too busy trying to watch. So we'll give them credit. But yeah, it was one of those where I try to just get it all out and remember it. Not only for obviously the brand, but for me, I just feel like success leaves clues as Tony Robbins always told me and I always try to find those good rounds. Like how can we make those happen a little bit more often? That's such a great strategy. And you've really got to remember those. I mean, yes, of course, course strategy, but but more so, the fact that you just found evidence, you know, so many golfers think about like when am I never going to be nervous or when am I not going to be nervous? And that's that day is is likely not going to come. But when you can put yourself in a position to be nervous and to kind of get yourself to a place to really still execute well. I mean, you have so many successful days at you on the golf course when you can do that. And so I'm psyched for you. That's awesome. Thanks. I appreciate it. It's rewarding when you see it all come together for a few days. And that was a match play tournament. So as Wednesday was the seeding day, we played in like the most rain I've seen in 20 years, which was awful. So that was a good mental resilient day. And then Thursday, Friday, you get a guaranteed match play and then after that's played until you lose. So one six and five, then one one up to make it to Saturday and then one two and one and then one two and one and then lost on the 35th hole on the on the Monday. So it was and I was six down after the I think 14 holes. So to get back to even and then lose on the last couple of holes. So it was like one of those where you lost, but you won at the same time. Right. And when you can walk away, you know, that's that's the narrative. The fact that you were able to come back in your last round when you're mentally exhausted, when you're physically exhausted. I mean, that's that right there is the narrative that you take away. And you know, the confidence and the mindset and the fact that you're going to be able to replicate that at some point. I mean, that's that's ultimately where resilience and success come from when we can get ourselves in a hole and we know we can kind of get out of it. Um, way to go. Thank you. I appreciate it. I actually working with the mental coach myself right now on some stuff. He's a podcast guest and we had a good good conversation to kind of talk about one of my big things. And I know a lot of golfers struggle from it is anger and trying to, you know, figure out where that comes from and and strategies to deal with that. So curious on your take is is anger good or bad? Can we use it? How do we deal with it on and off the course and any other strategies? I'm always open because that that's definitely a common thing, especially with my male listeners. Yeah. Um, you know, it's funny. I, I've never gotten to the point where I'm so angry on the course where I feel like, you know, physically hitting something or smashing my level or maybe or or I honestly have never gotten that angry. I mean, I, I've been mad, but I've, I've never gotten to that point. And so I can't personally relate to that feeling, but I've seen it. And when you see someone in that, that state, it's, I mean, a, it's concerning, but b, it's, you, you can tell that they're going through a pretty significant emotional state. And so, you know, I'm not here to say is it good or is it bad? It, it happens. It's interesting because we've seen this a little bit more on the PGA tour this year. Then I think in previous years, so that is certainly something of no. And just kind of worth noting, but I, I can't say that I have a ton of experience working with clients with this level of anger, but it happens, it's hard. I mean, at least like the, the players that, you know, my, my club, like we're not out there on tour. And, you know, trying to think, think through like what on earth are we so angry about? But I know what happens for sure. Yeah, it's just, I think it's just a love of the game, and sometimes an incorrect view on expectation management. I think that's one of the things like my, all my books get, get bigger and bigger because there's so many stats in there to try and help people reset a little bit and be like, you know, the PGA tour is making only 50% of eight footers here, guys. Let's, let's not get a, so mad when you, when you hit at eight feet on the first fall, and you think you're going to make birdie and you miss it. And you're like, oh, this isn't my day. I always make these pots. It's like, eh, do you really? So yeah, for, for me, it's expectations a lot and, and just, it's just, I guess maybe a type A thing sometimes. Sure. What's, well, what strategies work for you? So the biggest one that we started doing, he encouraged me to write in a journal every day for five minutes, just about, I've been on a pretty significant quest for the last couple years. But I mean, really, I've been at the tournament at golf. I went to Q school in 2019 and, uh, just done a lot of amateur stuff ever since then, 50 to 65 tournament days a year. So just try to play in as much as possible. And just kind of want to see what I'm capable of and we kind of had this realization that I've been just chasing, you know, and always looking to the next book, the next podcast, the next tournament and forgot to kind of reflect and be like, hey, you know, we've actually got a lot better in this process. So for me, it's actually just been like, hey, let's acknowledge that I learned how to hit this shot or now I hit it this distance or whatever the, you know, wins have been over the years. I think I just got too future oriented. And so I wasn't really good at like saying, hey, we're not the 14 year old that topped his college, you know, or topped his college T shot at at 17 and it was a, you know, she won 20s. I think I was kind of almost had to like get rid of that old self image and that self identity of, you know, the bad golfer. And so I think that that that has been helpful for me. And then also just being aware of it and knowing there's certain shots that tend to it happen more often. And so like kind of, I don't want to say walking on eggshells, but just being aware that it can happen. And then it's allowing a little bit of, I wouldn't even say anger, we'll just say a release, but it's just making sure it's like very short and we're like super focused and it's never personalized. It's never I'm a terrible bunker player or I suck or anything like that. It's it's more like a just a one or two word choice words, but then it's it's kind of how quickly can we get past it? But luckily, it seems to have gotten better again. I think it's a process and it's everyone's a little bit different out there. I feel like, but those are some things that have felt me. That's great. I'm so glad that you have have found success and all of that makes complete sense. Just again, so much of it is being aware of it and making space for it and not being overly surprised if it shows up, but then kind of figuring out that intentional way to to redirect ourselves and not go too far down that path. Yeah, exactly. You said you said you saw it on the P.J. tour a little bit more this year, which I've definitely seen you even see it with like Scotty, a does a trainer on the show last year and he said Scotty is just more competitive than anyone realizes. And so you see it with him and some of the other guys out there, some of them I feel like like Tara Hatton, you know, they're like beating themselves up. But when you're watching the best players, men and women, when you're just watching golf, what are you looking at as a performance coach and wish more players would adopt when they're watching the best players on TV? I watch, I would say this, I watched the moments between the moments. And so I love to see the the shot, you know, the hero shot over the tree onto the green and all of that because the outcome is almost secondary. I love hearing the the chatter between a player and their caddy because all they're doing is thinking about the next shot. They're analyzing it, they're measuring wind. I mean, the nuances of what is going on there is so high level. And I'm such a nerd. I love listening to that talk because they're not, I mean, no one's walking for three minutes talking about how angry they are for hitting that shot. Like you might hear it for, you know, five seconds max. And then it's next shot only. And so that is something that I wish more golfers would take away from watching professional golf because they don't waste any time. Like they don't, I mean, even when you've watched, I forget which documentary I might have been the the Rory, the one like specifically about where I think it was maybe not good was that. Oh my god, talking about being a geek. That was that was so good. I mean, you're talking about a man who missed his putt to win the master's outright knowing that he had to go on to a playoff. And he said in that whole, that is just a master class in thinking and performance because he didn't waste any time. He didn't waste any time feeling sorry for himself. He didn't waste any time thinking about if I did this or if I did that, he didn't waste any time. He immediately, you know, got his power bar, got on the back of the golf cart and drove back to the 18th tee box. And it was, it was a master class and why he is so good at what he does is because he's able, A, he's so physically talented, but B, he thinks the game better than almost anyone at the place of game. I also really like his caddy coming through on that clutch moment. What he said to him like, Hey, if you would have thought on Thursday, you're going to have a playoff to win the master's like, we'd be pretty excited to be here. He, you know, that was like a really powerful. Yes, thing right there. Cause I mean, it could have been, I was four, what do you have a four shot lead with the back nine or whatever it was and just crumbled it. And then he got it done. So yeah, like you said, I don't know if you would have been able to bounce back from that one after losing it in was a 2011. That was so hard to watch in the documentary. But I know. Yeah. It's tough. Yeah. It is so tough that I do remember that now that you say that the caddy saying like, Hey, would you have taken this, you know, on Thursday? He's like, again, I mean, again, it's all about how you frame the moment. It's all about the perspective that you have because that's where their mindset goes is always forward. It doesn't go, you know, Oh, I can't believe I blew the lead. But what do we hear on like the everyday golf course? It's all of that. So, I mean, that's one thing when I'm watching golf, I always look for like the analysis and just their, their problem sorrows. That's what they're doing. They're solving the problem in real time. That's very well said. I remember playing in this tournament. And it was the second hole in this guy miss, I don't just like a normal putt that you're going to miss sometimes. And he wind about it for 24 hours. And we got back to that. He wind about the whole round. He'd like, can you believe I miss that putt? And I'm over here like dude, I don't, I barely, I'm focusing on me. I don't care what you did yesterday. Right. You know, earlier, and he got back to that hole and he goes, still can't believe I missed that putt yesterday. I was like, dude, get over it. I was like, what are you doing? So I think that's a really good perspective. Like pros, they might get frustrated or angry or whatever. But like you said, they're problem solving onto that next one. And amateurs, you're so right, man. We tend to dwell a lot more often. I like that. Yeah. I mean, I read this one time. It was like, it's hard enough to hit one shot and golf, let alone the shot you're in and the three shots that you just hit. I know. We only have one brain. We're not like an octopus over here. We got all these ways to compartmentalize. Yeah. What about like so that that happens, right? You have the, let's see, hit like a horrific shot. And the heart rate does spike your embarrassed, whatever the negative feelings are. Anything you recommend players do to have some sort of rory reset, if you will. So they're ready for that next one. Yeah. I often say, you know, you go back to your bag, you wipe your club off, once the club goes in the bag, you're thinking next shot. And for me, that's taking a lot of deep breaths because I'm angry. I'm trying to get my heart rate down. I'm trying to just kind of bring myself back to neutral. And I do that through just taking deep breaths. And so if this is me, I'm putting my club back in my bag and I'm taking some deep breaths. I'm walking towards my next shot. And once my feet start moving, I'm moving on to the next shot. It's like a physical way to pair, you know, physical movement with a mental reframe. And that's thinking forward. So that's how I personally get through that. And that's, that's oftentimes how I'm, I'm coaching a golfer to kind of get through that. But again, make space for, for the anger, the disappointment. And then you're kind of thinking next shot. And take some extra, you know, breaths. You don't have to run up there and hit your next shot just because, you know, it went six yards. Like you, you can take a couple breaths. And this is also if it happens on the green and maybe didn't lose your turn. If you're playing the casual round, I know that's the worst. You know, if you're playing the casual round and someone else like kindly says like, although, you know, and you can, you know, mark your ball and whatever, just try to kind of give yourself some grace in that moment. And just again, stay really kind of locked in on your process. It's angry as you are returning to that process is, is something that's familiar and certain and can really kind of ground you. Hey, talk about process quite a bit. What do you think are some of the mistakes that amateurs make with their process? Not having one. Yeah, I mean, you're just doing something different because when you get to the point where you can expect your process and you, you're, you're thinking less, which is what we want on the golf course. You're also, or you're, you're able to kind of direct your mind where you want it to go because you've trained it a million times and now it's habitual. But when you see golfers get up to their ball and, you know, are kind of scurrying like how far is this? And they don't really have a process of like, get out, you know, the first thing you need to know is the yardage. Then you need to think about club selection. Look at your life. I mean, all these different things. It's, if it's scattered, it shows. Not only as you're approaching, you know, preparing to hit the ball, but it shows oftentimes when you hit the ball. And so I would say the number one thing is, is just not having a process is probably the, the, the biggest mistake I see. I like that. Don't be scurried and scattered. I think that is a perfect way to assess the everyday golfers routines or lack thereof. Yeah, for sure. That's great. Before getting into the last question here, I wanted to do a couple of fast, fast ones that I do a few rapid fire ones. I always like to get your take on certain ones. You got a few minutes? Yeah. Of course. Okay. Perfect. What do you think is like the best 10 minutes you can do off the course to continually improve your, your mindset for golf? Prepare the first two holes. Right down every club. When I'm playing a club championship, I write down every single club I'm going to use. I visualize the shots. I usually do the first three holes because that's when I tend to be the most kind of nervous or anxious Or unsettled and so I always write down the first three holes like how how do I want to feel? How do I want to play? How do I want to execute? I love that. That's a great one. What is your I guess on a scale of maybe one to ten How important is physical exercise to your to your mental performance and being mentally or excuse me physically and having that endurance to prepare for golf? I would say a nine or a ten, but I'm also a strengthening addition in coach and that's where I start in my career. So Yeah, I mean I if you're unable to have the endurance to play 18 holes and to to walk into Walk up hills and through Fescue and all the things that it tastes to like all sometimes. Yeah, I mean, I think you got a you got to be nine ten in terms of Kind of wanting to to stay physically active and in mobile Favorite go to snack on the golf course to keep that energy and focus up because you're a strength and conditioning coach I'm sure you get some insights with nutrition too Always electrolytes in the water electrolytes and creating in the water and You're probably going to laugh at this, but I love a go-go squeeze on the golf course did not I cannot say I've ever seen that on the golf course. I might have to whip it out though. I like that Yeah, especially if you put them in the freezer. They're pretty good at the turn. Okay, okay Yeah, we're sweating to death here in Arizona still, so I don't know if it'll be frozen Yeah, I'm curious. I've got to I got to learn more on Electro I'm a big electrolytes creatine person myself to you so you do that you do creatine during the round and you do Electroites before during and after the round And I always start my day with five grams of creatine in a if I use thorn products and my grams of creatine and full Thorn in about like 30 40 ounces of water. So nice. Okay, perfect. I get my girlfriend's a thorn ambassador over here So we got thorns all the time Perfect. I wanted also ask you just for the rapid fire. Like is there a modality you think players should you know Is it meditation or self-indosis or journaling? Is there one that you think can can help golfers the most off the course? journaling for sure I mean, not only core strategy and analysis, but Sometimes the numbers don't always Give us the full picture of the round. I mean we can shoot a great number, but feel like we lost a lot of shots out there We can also shoot a poor number, but feel like we played really really well And so that doesn't always paint the full picture and so All of my clients at victory lap they all have journals And that's that's one thing I always recommend is you got to write some of this stuff down to your point You got to remember your successes Love it. Love it for the last question. What's the best place players can connect with you and learn more about working together Sure, so my website is victory lap mindset calm. I also hang out a lot on Instagram My name is at Jess Lapa Jinsky So those are two places that you can find me and stay connected for sure What kind of players do you work with and you know, what's the the process look like so just to get players a little preview Through or so everything that I do one-on-one with athletes is Individualized to personal goals. That's all the the coaching. I don't have a specific program that I kind of Offer to everyone and I work with youth collegiate and professional players at all levels at the game Fantastic. That's great. Well, yeah, I definitely recommend everyone fall on her Instagram That's how we got connected and love your stuff. It's not easy to keep up with the Instagram and the other nine things We have to do every day. So I love love the content there And for my last question. I wanted to know what do you think players should do the night before a big one? Maybe a circle championship tournament anything you'd recommend to kind of maybe rid some of that anxiety and get them more excited versus being nervous the next day I would try to get to bed early you got to drink some water Just again, nothing new on game day when you're going to bed if you're thinking A little bit just start start shut your eyes and start playing the course in your brain again those those first three holes And just trying to kind of make those connections and and nail down those neural pathways before you hit the first tee And just deep breaths and and know that even if you're nervous if you're not falling asleep sleep will eventually come I love that. That's very true. Sleepful eventually come good stuff. Well, Jess. I really appreciate you being here at Wicked's Mark Golf podcast I love what you're doing and wishing you nothing but success as a fake Bostonian to a real one keep it up You're the definition of wicked smart. So thanks again Thanks so much Michael All right golfers hopefully enjoyed that episode with Jess make sure to follow her down on Instagram in the show notes If you're not already, but tackle that mental game whether you're in the offseason coming up or in middle of the season or whenever you listen to this Just remember the mental game is something we can all improve on Lastly, if you do want to share this with someone that you think it benefit through Apple podcast Spotify or your favorite podcast platform It goes a long way in helping support the show and lastly if you haven't yet make sure you subscribe So you never miss any of these epic episodes where we're going to help you play better without changing your swing Thanks again for listening and as always I hope you have an epic day on the links