JENDAYA: Elevating E-Comm

From consumer insights across the world to the latest tactics and trends you're listening to leap into luxury, the go-to marketing podcast for luxury brands. I'm Natalie and today we're talking to I.O. Revhi, CEO and co-founder of Gendaya, a unique luxury e-com platform harnessing the growing power of the African luxury consumer and shining a light on international talent and fashion. Welcome I.O. Thank you for joining us. Hello, hello ladies, thank you for having me, thank you. Good to have you just by from Paris Fashion Week. Yes, yes, yes. How is it? Paris Fashion Week is amazing for a few reasons, it's super busy, you get to kind of meet your idols, you get to see amazing shows and the craftsmanship that goes into brands, but it's like super busy so it's fun work. So I'm always pretty like tired of the Paris Fashion Week, but it's cool, it's it's it's it's work that we like doing and again as you mentioned we get to bring specifically for Paris Fashion Week or Fashion Week globally, we get to bring like African talent to you know the shows as part of what we do as a wider service. Amazing, that leads us nicely into I suppose kind of firstly if you could explain to us what Gendaya is and kind of what gave you the idea to start. Yeah, so Gendaya is a luxury e-commerce platform for the global citizen, Africa included, Africa included being the most important part we think for us because it's a niche that or a geography rather that's not really tapped into it's uncovered. I think if you're anywhere else in the world you can access luxury from a myriad of platforms and I can start listing them. There's about 12 or 20 like we can go and buy exactly the same thing for but a lot of these platforms don't cater to the African consumer on the continent. I mean they can cater to Africans and other you know the demographic of consumers and around the world but specifically getting in on the continent it's either they don't deliver to all African countries, they deliver to some and even if when they deliver to them it's either they take a really long time, they add a high levy on top or you know yeah as I said they don't deliver at all. I've heard there was a lot of import taxes previously. Exactly and the thing is import taxes you can't get rid of them. I mean I pay import taxes when I shop on certain platforms for certain things but for Africa because it's a route less traveled or the route they don't want to travel you know it's just increased like it's crazy high so yeah so that's your USP essentially yeah it's kind of that accessibility. Exactly globally available but with a focus on the African consumer on the continent yeah and that's why you started it I suppose it kind of came out of that frustration. Exactly so I'm British born and raised but I have a lot of families still living on the continent mainly in Nigeria. So you're getting like you're getting like please do case exactly that exactly that and the anecdote behind that actually my auntie she and for years my auntie's always had like all of these nice things that I would see and read about and so I was like that's a fashionable African woman right and so one summer so her birthday is in May my uncle bought her a Louverton bag from Selfridges and she's what a nice uncle. And yeah she's always had nice things right so she so she came early in the summer and she was like okay I'll you know it's nice and then they went back and then she was like can you go and exchange it so I went four times change the size change the color change the bag and so she came back over the summer and I was like why don't you just do this from Lagos why didn't you you she was like it's not how it's done kind of thing and I was like well why can't it be done like that so that and it was summer 2017 and that's when the idea started you know so doing a lot of research into you know the landscape for luxury on the continent the size of the market the the the hindrances and the you know the reasons why maybe luxury isn't as big and this and the third and then started kind of iterating Gendere to fit the consumer on the continent. Amazing but Gendere is I've read on on your website that it's a brand propelled forwards by community how have you integrated that into the business? I think in a few ways I think one the focus in the USB being Africa at the African consumer not necessarily African brands which are a part of it but the African consumer is very that ethos and the essence of I think Africa is one of community it's very collaborative it's colorful so I think that in its essence and its core has like translated into the real life so art as they say imitating life and so from the name which means grateful actually in Shona which is a dialect they speak in Zimbabwe old Zimbabwean dialect of Shona actually means it means thankful to the word Gendere so even from the name then propelling it forward to the community of maybe from advisors and then the team members and that initial community has allowed us to then build the wider community through different things like who how we market who we who we use to market the platform the different publications that have been interested in covering us the personnel who might not be on the team or the advisory board who have advocated for us and then the actual consumer learning about us and then sharing and then buying and then you know reposting and inquiring and sending us suggestions so I guess it's been a community effort even from the first situation. And I suppose a community that also felt that frustration that that kind of caused you to to found Gendere and it's also something that has been so or has become so important to the modern more digital native consumer like us as we're all shifting onto social media and and buying online there's a huge need to kind of build a community there and it's a big thing for Gen Z and Gen Alph actually who by 2030 we'll be making up a third of luxury sector sales so something that heritage and luxury brands are having to catch up with to stay relevant is that community factors especially online it's becoming a lot more apparent that those thriving disruptor brands in the space like yourself if you would you could feel that I'll rely more and more on their community. But I suppose equally with those disruptor brands that are coming up and through there's a big question as to you know what causes the success of these and who's going to succeed in the end and you've had a lot of support I believe from mentors like Natalie Massene how important has that been to have her guidance in your journey? Yeah I would say it's been super super important I think when you have someone like herself who started the industry I mean started net up porting 2000 so the turn of the internet the start of the internet and so starting what has become like a billion dollar industry of luxury e-commerce to have her support her ear her guidance and then being able to you know inflict on that and iterate on that has been you know really helpful and as you can imagine having like kind of that easter egg as should I say and then meeting people and mentioning that it's like oh okay okay everyone perks up and and you know unrequited like she always like she will send us messages and she'll be like I really loved that or you should consider changing that or you should you know she's really encouraging them so that's been really helpful for us and it's open quite a lot of doors and I think you know getting her advice has also helped us navigate how we build community especially at our stage and where we hope to go in terms of things that you know might not be um might be should I say expensive to do but it is worth it at this stage to keep the community to grow that credibility and to keep the awareness of that community locked in so things like you know how we deliver on the continent the vendors that we use there might not be currently scalable but they're good for the customer yeah um to ensure that quality assurance and ensure that what they get is the quality they they're expecting um whereas you know when you scale you kind of just work with a partner and that partner just delivers it and you you know you get kind of what you get really as long as the the item is intact yeah I experience might not necessarily be end to end the best thing that's what we're trying to invest in currently on the continent to make sure that okay when you order from gender in Nigeria or wherever you know it comes like maybe hand delivered and this damn third and we have a sorting location that sorting location repackages boxes and then it gets to our second partner so all those things are you know added add to the cost by its worth it for now but they're not inconsequential things I guess what you're kind of doing now is looking at the whole process and the the customers that you have and viewing them as like high lifetime value customers rather than just taking a short term view of it and I imagine that as a as a kind of emerging business that is a big cost upfront but when you look at it with where you want to be in 5 10 15 years putting those things in place now is such an investment in consumers customers and generations even of people who could account for like 75% of who's been exactly exactly and I actually you know talking about that consumer breakdown it's interesting because I've a stat that I like to mention and it I guess it changes slightly every year but you know 35% of net up or 10 farfetchers revenue actually they've just bought them so they're one in the same now but when they were separate that around 35% of each of their revenue comes from 5% of their user base so if you can actually look in and like do such a great job with 5% of a user base who are high spending as you said the lifetime value of that customer they're going to be there forever and be contributing a lot to your bottom line and so for us it's such a new market that if we can capture again that just 5% you know they would go a long way for us because even the breakdown of demographics on the continent as you can imagine you know that it's really it's not the the majority of people maybe not necessarily our shopping luxury they're shopping premium brands and other things and there's a strategy to also capture them on jendaya but there is that 1% which make up our 5% that if you do capture them, that lifetime value is just-- Amazing. I know that Harrods have just spent a year basically rebuilding all of their customer models to make sure they are able to predict any kind of consumer that they interact with. They then have a pathway of how they think they're going to spend and how to also maximize that. We saw them talking at a well-pull event that we went to. And I think that kind of long-term strategic investment is, although it takes a lot of manpower and rape power and money and all those nice things. But it can really have a huge return when you're able to plot out the potential of each customer you're interacting with. Exactly. So talking of modeling those customers, you've obviously got plenty because the luxury goods market in Africa currently amounts to $5.74 billion. That's currently got 3.5% which is generated by online sales. Do you think that there's anything particular that makes African luxury consumers different versus other consumers? So the African luxury consumer, especially the ones that were mainly trying to target the interesting thing about them is they have access. So they're very much used to the neta portes and everything else in the United States from Dubai, because they travel there often. I mean, for example, my auntie, my cousins go to boarding school here. So they're here like 10 times a year. So she can buy all her stuff from here. However, they do spend time back home in Nigeria and Malawi and Mozambique and Kenya. And so when they're on the continent, the idea is for them to include gender in their habits to buy luxury. And so that's-- but that is one type of consumer, but an important type of consumer. Now, that habit changes from when you look at the consumer who makes up probably the majority of that country, who they don't have as much access. And probably don't have as much branding power, but they kind of fall to buy nice things every now and again. And so for them, it's about the type of brands that we have on the platform and the type of things that we do online and offline to activate and to get their eyes and their ears and to get the credibility for them to shop on the platform. And then even going back to that consumer that I spoke of earlier, I think credibility is such a big thing for that consumer, like one of the items you're selling legitimate to what is so special about your service and the things that you're doing or your brand mix that makes me as a consumer who can afford nice things and who's a person nice things actually care to shop on gender. So it's a lot of psyche sort of getting into the psyche and understanding more about the consumer. Because we do have an initial understanding, but we consistently have to and we have made a program called the Friends of Gendere to actually further understand the habits and the wants and the needs of the customers across our demographics to give them that. Because oftentimes you just find out that if you give a customer what they want, the customer will be loyal and they will actually shop. But a lot of times we get in our own heads and we use the resources to build out this massive thing that the customer doesn't really want or hasn't said they need. Or, you know, so for us, it's that Friends of Gendere program is us consistently trying to find out exactly what the consumer wants. And it's also nuanced country to country, including the brands that they want as well across the demographics and the guys that have the access to the guys that make up the majority of the country. But, you know, don't conspend enough. So what are the brands that have peeled to them? And then there's corporations and then personal shoppers who do basically what Gendere is doing, but without it being tech enabled, who are the make up the other demographic or buyers on the continent that we're focusing on. Interesting. I think like what you were saying about the customers, you're understanding the customers needs, I think is becoming more and more important, especially as we're transitioning now from Web 2, which was such a transactional space to Web 3, which is so more, it just operates in a completely different way like this, there's really flat hierarchies, there's niche interests are kind of being celebrated and really small communities in small spaces, which I guess is exactly how you're going to flourish because you're serving those smaller communities. Like with one platform, you're able to service multiple communities. And so, you know, the interesting thing is I think the African consumer, specifically when it comes to luxury, regardless of the more savvy exposed to the less, you know, exposed, 'cause consumer on the continent, I think Web 3 is still quite gimmicky to them. They don't need that to buy luxury. I think the main thing is credibility and the awareness that we exist is the main thing that we're tackling now on the continent in our journey to be the far-fetched for Africa. I think Web 3 is something that comes, that will come later and I don't think it's what is needed and anyway the data and the conversations currently show, it's not what is needed for those consumers to convert. So for us right now, that's not where we're focusing on. Yes, we have a Web 3 token gate on the platform for maybe the Western customers, 'cause Gendai is a global platform that they can access and we are working on some AI solutions and stuff to make the UI and the UX better. But for me personally, even as a luxury shopper and then the African consumer, that's not what they need to convert right now, right now anyway. I see they're interestingly behaves slightly differently to any Asian market example where it's so important. But I think that makes sense because we've had access to luxury online for since 2000 and there's like since the year 2000, right? And there's so many platforms that we can go on to access what we want. So now we're looking for something new, another layer on top whereas that consumer, it's still a frontier, kind of almost now becoming a secondary market, not necessarily primary anymore. So I think the Web 3 space is something that will come to help them convert later. That'd be great 'cause Web 3 scares me. Yeah, same, same. It's nice to have, I just feel like a lot of brands are spreading themselves too thin across all of these new kind of tech innovations. That at least you're there and you've got this kind of this path and you're like this would not help us. You're making these decisions and it's you're not spreading yourself too thin earlier. So luxury brands in the past and still probably have battled with the pros and cons of partnering with stockists. But reputable online marketplaces now account for around 60% of online sales. And that's marketplaces like Farfetch and Netaporte, as you say, who've not only increased awareness but also increased availability for a lot of luxury brands and products, which is what you guys are doing. And luxury marketplaces like Gendere make commercial sense for brands which inevitably puts them front of mind and physically makes them available for their consumers. And you're bringing that physical availability element people. But do you think this moved towards online luxury purchasing is affording smaller independent designers the opportunity to play in the same league as the Heritage Houses? 100% and that has also bled into our brand mix. So the brand mix of international brands, we have local brands, local brands being African brands or wherever that's local to you, Brazilian brands, Asian brands, wherever even smaller European brands has been intentional because in being or in wanting to be the far-fetched or Africa, the African consumer wants a mix of brands. They don't just want African brands or European brands. They want to mix a Lisa Filario with a Botege Vanetta. You know, that's what they want. And so that brand mix, which has been intentional for them, has also translated to allow us to be globally appealing. So the customer in the West who spoke for choice might not necessarily be coming onto the platform because of Botege because they buy that everywhere else, but they'll come on because of a brand like Rich Minci or, you know, Osmantela, which the trousers are wearing right now actually on the way here. Someone's like, where'd you get your trousers from? And then, you know, so they come on there for discovery. - Yeah, very nice, by the way. - Yeah. - Thank you, thank you. So they come on there for discovery. I actually remember, so one of our initial conversations, with Natalie, she discovered the brand Hannifa through the content we made. So because we're content and commerce, you might discover a brand through the commerce, but you might discover a brand through the content. And then you come on because of the discovery brand and you're like, oh, I can buy Versace here as well, you know, because of maybe the way we've started in our campaign, so it reintroduces it to you. So that brand parity is definitely a part and parcel of how we do things, which benefits, you know, the smaller brands. And I think you mentioned, mentioning how it translates from offline spaces into online spaces. Yes, we're doing that online, but because of the work we do beyond that, you know, offline their opportunities for discovery brands as well. You know, so whoever it's a partnership with Thread Styling, we did last year with a brand called Killintor, you know, we're able to do that. It's an online partnership, but it translates offline beyond Gendel. So. - Is there any designers that you're particularly excited about? - Designers I'm particularly excited about. This is like the question about, like, what designers you currently like? (laughing) - It's part time. - Yes, good. - Oh my God. Designers I'm particularly excited about, you're putting me on the spot. - Who gave a good show recently? You know, I like, well, you know, Western brands, okay, I'm gonna try to split it in my mind. So Western brands that I quite like are Zenia. Zenia is a brand I really like. Acne Studios is a brand I really like. There's definitely some Discovery brands on the platform that I really like, as well as our champion sum for you. We actually did a presentation in Paris, just for Discovery brands in June. So brands like Beautifully Sidd, brands like DCN, Osmentayla, the brand I'm wearing currently. Yeah, those brands I think are currently like my favorite brands, I'm trying to think of this in a while. That was quite a lot. I was impressed. I was really thrilled all those. So I have a question for you and Ashley and Ashley as well. So how many times have you shopped for those brands or looked for those brands in a store versus online? Would you start online looking for those brands or would you go in store and discover brands there? I discover brands better online to be honest. - Same, same. If I'm going into a store, it's because I know exactly what I want, I know the exact color, size, whatever. And I'm like, okay, I'm going in here together. - So that is not your first touch point. That's not your first introduction to that brand. And that's interesting because in, so I've got to start here. And this is why I'm lining this up 'cause I want to hear your reactions. So in 2018, only 10% of luxury purchases were made online. That was not that long ago. But the figure is expected to be 25% by 2025. But even that, 25% also is not a lot. - It's not a lot, no. - And that is probably because, so I've been doing a lot of reading and obviously a lot of heritage luxury brands that have been going for a long time, really established ones, were really reluctant to move into the online space. And following the pandemic, if the pandemic, (laughing) you're not wrong. - The pandemic. Good old pandemic. - Following the pandemic, these brands were forced to shift their focus to online. And now that luxury sales are growing again, post pandemic, as well as generational shifts that are showing through changes in consumer behaviors as we've seen a lot of luxury online retail, is showing no signs of slowing down. And it's been predicted that the number of luxury consumers is expected to increase by 25% by 2030. So competition is really gonna be ramping up on these online and digital platforms for new brands launching to claim a share of that market, that booming market, especially as these purchases are getting younger and younger. And Bayne actually forecast that in the face of more choice, these consumers are going to become way more knowledgeable about the brands that they're buying for, and way more picky. And loyalty, because you mentioned loyalty earlier on, loyalty is probably gonna end up being the biggest driver of what these brands are pushing out there. Instead of kind of immediate sales, they're gonna be looking for long-term loyalty again, which is something that hasn't been done in this newer data-driven age. So you're already in theory ahead of a lot of these. Do you think that having that kind of that understanding and that need for growing a long-term relationship with consumers is gonna set you apart from these newer? - 100% I think, specifically when we're focusing on the African consumer, because we are putting ourselves out there as, again, the neta portais are far-fetched, for them, that authenticity is what really, the authentic approach is really what's gonna rope them in and make them feel passionate and really a part of that community, gender community, and then they become advocates and then become loyal to shopping on there. So I think that our approach in showing them that we have them first and foremost in mind, and things like the Friends of Gender Program will picking five countries for a 12 to 18 month focus on the continent to really understand the consumer and roll out in a nuanced way. I think we'll show them that actually we're authentically trying to reach them and provide for their needs in the luxury space rather than approaching it as a lack of one shoe fits all and then we're just another platform. Because that loyalty is important for them to capture them and to make sure that we're growing with them you mentioned lifetime value earlier. So it's super important. Do you have any kind of hesitance from these brands that you guys are working with and stocking with? In terms of obviously, you're building your own community. Their building their own community is there kind of a reluctance to join up to collaborate to work together. I suppose there are concerns about, or historically, from a lot of heritage brands, there've been concerns about brand dilution, logistics or the inability to manage that customer's experience. So I think when we started, yes, there was a lot of pushback. But as you know, fashion, you just need one to say yes and then you leverage for everything else. And I think also the passage of time has allowed for brands to see the benefit and the need to actually focus on Africa because of the stats in the growth numbers, like the compound annual growth rate or movements like Afrobeads taking over or African brands reaching the finalists of the over-mature prize consistently and then collaborations with African brands and Western brands. So everyone's like, oh, we want a piece of that now. But I think what's also starting to rise to the top, which is important, is doing that authentically. So partnering with the right people, brands, institutions that will allow that exposure and transition into that space. So I think some really great examples of people who have been intentional about Africa and that we work with, that we enjoy working with, are kind of clients like Paul Smith and, you know, yeah, I've mentioned Paul Smith. So they wanted to open up their first brick and mortar store or contestion in Africa and we started with them with Nigeria. And now they're like proliferating across the continent. And so that's been really cool to see brands, that you wouldn't probably expect like across industries that we work with. So maybe it's hospitality or fashion and whatnot. Like, hey, we want to work with you to understand that market a lot more. So that's been really cool to see that trend that people are open to working with us to bring their brands on the platform more so now than, I guess, when we started reaching out to them. And I guess speaking of that, we've had kind of conversations about how luxury brands are adapting and can rise to face the challenge of e-commerce. And Gendaya was obviously born to be online, so that's great. But would you have any tips for brands that are on the rise, but their budgets aren't quite ready for a brick and mortar activation, like those that Paul Smith have done, for example, or big experiential things, big PR things, like what would your tips be for smaller brands? I think it'd be to partner to leverage relationships that you currently have or see-cut relationships that lead or feed into your objectives for growth. So for example, being on Gendaya, if you're a discovery brand on Gendaya, that one, you're on the platform with so many other brands, so that brand parity is there. And then the awareness and the community we have, you have a new market to go after, to be exposed with. But beyond that, there's opportunities that we provide those discovery brands via our network of advisors, investors, and just general community of supporters that translate both online and offline. So again, you see how a platform or an individual that leans into that objective, and you're able to compound those efforts via collaboration. So that's what I'd say, like seek out partners that lean into your objectives because two heads of men, one. Totally. OK, so let's flip that a little bit. If you had an infinite marketing budget, I'm talking Barbie movie level, there is no limit. The limit does not exist marketing budget. What would you do? I think it would be like an epic sort of campaign involving different influencers, influencers being like models or artists or names. Names. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. You're so big. You're just like the old saying. I'm a big thing. I mean, Beyonce, Gendaya, and I think we'd have some basket ball that we'd have people across different industries, likely with an interest in Africa that-- so they've either done work in Africa and the African consumer loves them, or they're African themselves. They're a few across industries that we put in a campaign wearing both brands from the global West and brands from Africa in a really cool sort of campaign on the continent, short on the continent, maybe someone South Africa or Malawi somewhere, just showing-- Come on, everybody. Yes, everyone in all South Eastern West, North Southeast and West of Africa, people from different industries like her Beyonce to come and shoot campaigns wearing a range of brands that we have on the platform, specifically also including African brands with a really dope soundtrack by Kendrick Lamar or something. A bit like that he made just for the campaign. Yeah, just for the campaign. And that would be pretty dope. And again, it would include people like maybe DeVito and whatnot who we work with already and stuff. It would be-- For a second, I thought you meant Dali DeVito. No, my god, Dali DeVito. Yeah, he could be. He could be there though. I could feel too. And neither the young sort of Matilda fan in all of us. I'm a Tilda's great. I like it. Exactly. Well, maybe in what next year, should we do it? Yeah. Once we-- See you there. Cool one of Iver. Let's us up. OK, so obviously, aside from our big trip to Africa, to shoot this global campaign, it's going to be amazing. Yeah. OK? What's next for Gendaya? Where do you see yourself in five years? What's next? I guess the immediate thing right now is we're increasing the brands that we have on the platform to increase the breadth available to the customer. So there's a few technical things in order to do that that we're doing currently in the background. [BLANK_AUDIO] starting to a strategy plan for next year already. So in terms of what we're doing from a marketing perspective, who do we want to work with, our friends of Jendaya programs, for the first five countries that we're focusing on, what exactly are we executing in those countries, what we're doing, who are we doing it with. So that's a lot of the immediate sort of conversation, I guess into then the next 12 months, probably be back out for fundraising. So you know, I'm happy to do. - That's a lot of fundraising. So be it back out for fundraising, but I guess, you know, the ultimate goal within the next five years to your question is to be the number one luxury you've promised platform on the continent, and in doing that and in that journey, to becoming that we'd love to be acquired. (laughing) - Far better, are you listening? - Far better, are you listening? - Far better. So yeah, we'd love that. I think that would be ideal. And because it's part of the DNA right, far-fetched, always make geographical acquisitions. They make acquisitions across the board, but geographically they make acquisitions and with the numbers and the growth rate right now, we think an African acquisition would make sense, and we want to be the incumbent, we want to be the leader. So that would be like the end of the five-year plan for us. So hopefully, you know, and we've been collecting the infinity stones to make that happen. - And then you'll go and live on a desert island with the answer, and I need to be true. - Jay-Z, do not come here. - I always be on say, I would just come to the concerts and you know, VIP, I do, sir. Yeah. - Right, so before we do our thanks and goodbyes, can you let our lovely listeners know how to find you where they need to be going to read up on you guys, what they can do to support? - Yeah, thank you. So it's Jendere, J-E-N-D-A-Y-A, on all platforms and shopjendere.com to shop on Jendere. Yeah, and that's where you can find us. - Amazing. Thank you so much. It's been really, really, really an pleasure. - Thank you, thank you for having me. - If you enjoyed this episode, follow us at Leap Intelluxury Podcast on Instagram for updates on who we'll be speaking to next.