Jay Leno | Club Random Classics with Bill Maher

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We get into Johnny Carson and Conan and Jimmy Kimmel and getting fired while you're number one. Jay's insane work ethic and somehow having dinner with Gorbachev. It's a history of show business told by a guy who survived all of it and, annoyingly, isn't even bitter. Plus, as always with Jay, about 17 stories I'd forgotten existed. Check out this amazing Club Random Classic with Jay Leno. Closed Captioning by Kris Brandhagen. [email protected] I just can't, that's just water. I just can't get past the fact that the glasses represent to me a milestone of aging. You know, it's like there are milestones of aging. You were telling me about the pickle jar last time I saw you. Yeah, yeah. Okay, it's that kind of thing, you know. You can't apparently open pickle jars anymore. Well, it takes a little more strength, but you get to do the Walter Cronkite. You get to do the Walter Cronkite. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, give me, I'll show you, man. Give me your glasses. Okay. You do the. Oh, I thought. Remember how he would do the. Yes, but I. President Kennedy died today at 1:45. Yeah, I was gonna do it. I can do it exactly. Oh, go ahead. You're fucking it up. And there it is, the flash from Dallas. Yeah, that's great. President Kennedy died at 1:45. That's great. 1:05 PM. 1:45, I think. Whatever it was, but I mean, there was a guy who you could see on the air with the genuineness of being choked up, but unlike what they would be probably doing today, didn't let himself. He had the self-restraint, the people of that era, I'm the newsman, I'm here to do a job. Yes, it's devastating news, I may swallow a couple of times, but then I go on and I do it. I don't blubber. Yeah. Right, Jay? Exactly. Where's your camera? Right here? Yeah. Oh, yeah. They're all over. This is like a reality show. Have we started already? I'm lost. Yeah. Oh. Right? Yeah. Oh, I have. Okay, well, let's go. What are you doing? We're doing it. This is the show. What do you expect me to do? Oh, all right. I don't know. I get drinking high with somebody I like. That's it. Okay, there you go. I don't have a series of questions or anything. All right. Okay. Jay, tell me something about your background. I understand you claim to be a comedian. Did I tell you that claim story? Tell that story. I love that story. No. I was in Dayton, Ohio. I was guest hosting the Tonight Show. I was doing the comedy club. Guest hosting already? No. In '86. I thought this was way before that. He claims to be a comedian? No, no. Not claims to be a comedian. What it was, was it was about. I had been hosting the Tonight Show. I was hosting the Tonight Show for a number of weeks. So I'm doing some clubs in Ohio. So they go, "Oh, you're on Dayton. You're on it. The New News." Female anchor. What's her name? Okay. "Sorry. I'm Jay Leno." She says, "I'm sorry. I'm not familiar." I said, "Oh, my name's Jay Leno. I'm a comedian. I'm playing, you know, Chuckles or Giggles, whatever it is." And I guest hosted the Tonight Show. I thought it was Jay Leno, Leno who claims to have hosted the Tonight Show. I go, "You know, I can prove it." I said, "You have film right here." And they say, "This is an NBC affiliate. I'm sure there's tape." You know? Now, either you told me a different story. No, I told you that story. It's so interesting because I will admit to the fact that the brain over time sometimes does. You know the one you might confuse it with is Buffalo. Buffalo. My mom. Do you remember John Eric Hexum? Yes. Remember the kid who sadly killed himself? Sadly. He had a. Well, tell people why. He thought the gun was. Right. No. It was a blank. It was a blank. He thought it would shoot a paper wad. But since he had it right against his forehead, instead of just going, "Pfft," the pressure went into his brain and killed him. Well, the lesson, kids, is don't fire even a blank gun into your head. Right. Right. Exactly. And anyway, the guests on the show were him. He was the star because of. He had some show where he played a spy coming in. What show? Guests on what show? A.M. Buffalo. A.M. Buffalo. It was him. Oh, God. Me and seven authentic African pygmy dancers. All right. So I'm sitting in the room like here, and John Eric Hexum is being interviewed. And the seven pygmies are sitting right here next to me. And they have spears. And they have their full. There's seven of them sitting there. Jay, you said authentic. Yeah. I would assume they have spears. Okay. Okay. So they're all sitting there. And the talent coordinator comes and goes, "Mr. Leno. Mr. Leno." I go, "I'm Leno." "Oh, you're Leno? Okay. You're up next." And I went. And I just thought, "Oh, okay." Oh, that's a scream. Yeah. It's just so stupid. Oh, my God. "Mr. Leno. Over here. Over here." But I swear to God, I thought you told a story about being a very young comedian who'd done this for a long time. I thought you were a very young comedian. So he goes, what do you want? I said, can I get paid? Yeah, I get paid. So I took like 10 rolls of fresh and that was my pay. That was a horrible one. Maybe that's the one. OK, it's still, no. OK. I'm telling you what the story is. Yeah, what was it? It's very basic, that you were doing one of these corporate gigs where they often, I've had been introduced where they don't even understand to say your name at the end of the introduction. So it's like, Bill Maher is a funny guy who's done three Tonight Shows. Here he is. They'll just end the set. It's just like people have no cue to clap. They don't go, here's Bill Maher. So this one, you're doing this, some corporate gig. And the guy is like, he probably had it on a card, was reading your credits. And he's like, and we have a comedian on, Jay Leno. No, I'm fucking this story up. What the guy embarrassed you by doing, he said, Jay Leno. No, claims to have done the Tonight Show. That's what it was. He claims to, that never happened. No, the one that happened was one who claims to have hosted. That's where it came from. I think you get a couple of stories. Maybe. It's 40 years ago. These clove cigarettes. It's 40 years ago. The fact that you were working, we're doing AM Buffalo, I think says so much about you, Jay, and your work ethic. Because you would never catch me doing AM anything, let alone Buffalo, I bet, in February. But you've got to remember, back in the day, those were the local shows that brought a local audience. I know. Remember the PM magazine shows? They always used to have those at 7.30. Those are pretty big, too. And the funny thing about it is, people come up to you like 10 years later and go, are you from Montana? No. Well, I saw you on, you know. Hello, Butte, or whatever the name of the show. I go, no. Oh, you're not from there. No, no. I was just on the show doing that. Oh. Yeah. I did every local. Oh, yeah. Hilarious. But I know when you hosted The Tonight Show that you would be like, you'd get into the office at like 8 AM, right? Oh, easy. Yeah, yeah. 8 AM. Yeah, 7.30, 8 AM. A comedian in an office at 8 AM. Yeah, but you know something. And you'd be calling affiliates. Yeah. I mean, that. You're following Johnny Carson, OK? The network's getting letters like, you know, they should just make that 60 Minutes of Dead Air in honor of Johnny. You know, it's not fair to put somebody else. I mean, that's the kind of stuff that you're dealing with. Really? Oh, yeah. Just crazy stuff. Yeah, yeah. Wait a minute, because they were so up Johnny's ass that they couldn't accept the next. Yeah, of course, of course. Really? Yeah. I remember I wrote a thing for Time magazine. When Johnny died, they asked me to do a thing. And I said at the end of it, I said, you know, he was amazing for his time, but times change. And Lionel was right for this time. And I don't know if they printed it, but I don't know if they liked it. I mean, it was very. Well, you know what's fascinating is somebody at NBC gave me Johnny's reviews when he took over from Parr. And I was stunned at how vicious they were. Because Parr was the erudite guy. He would have on, you know, you know, and Johnny was sort of Aunt Blabby and all that kind of stuff. And obviously had a wider appeal than Parr. But they thought it was off the dumbing down of television and all this kind of comedy and all that kind of stuff. But television is always perpetually getting dumbed down because the population gets dumber. There was a reason why erudite Jack Parr could survive in 1959. Noel Coward had a talk show in the 50s. Is that right? Yeah. In America? Like 90 minutes. Let's discuss that. With Hamlet, of course, certainly the third act. Well, Johnny used to do an hour and a half. Yeah. And the last half hour was like authors. Like he would have a serious intellectual discussion with astronomers and authors and people like that. Okay. But that's what my point was in that article. Like times change. Jay had his finger on the pulse of where America was in his era. Johnny, if he had been doing that same. The show he was doing would not have survived in 2008 or something. Well, you never know, but. Well, well, I, if he was doing the same kind of thing, it was broad, but it, you know, your show was more of like a party and that's what people wanted. It wasn't so, the accent wasn't that much on just people talking. It was, and then it even moved after you to like just throwing water in people's faces. Wow. You know. It's just true. I mean, people, you, the, the artist has to follow where the. The toughest thing about. Where the. Yeah. The toughest. Audience is. The toughest thing about late night now is that the commercials, you know, you, you get used to streaming and watching Netflix and I said, well, let me see what the guys are doing. And I go, another commercial. I mean, there's a nine minute break at 12 o'clock to 1209. I don't know. It's almost all the, after 11 o'clock at night, you can add more commercials. So. So they just come back for like a minute. They come back for a minute and you go, geez, I mean, you can't watch and 30 seconds spots is so well produced now and they have so much content. They seem like a minute spot, you know, and you go, how many commercials, 30 seconds spot of ads, ads, you know, whatever it is. Okay. Yeah. Well, I remember when I was following nightline, I had a six minute gap, right? Like three minutes of our commercials at the end. We were. And you're daring the audience to go away, especially at midnight. I know. I know. You're daring them. I know. I know. Okay. Well, let's go to bed. Click. Now they do a hot switch. Don't they? Haven't they done that forever? What do you mean a hot switch? A hot switch where you go from one show to the other. Oh yeah. Yeah. And then the commercial comes. Yeah. Yeah. So that you catch the people and get them hooked or whatever. I mean, I don't, I don't know how in an age of streaming and you know. VCRs, DVRs, that anybody can, why would you watch something in real time when you could skip the commercials? Right. And yet they must still do it. People must still be in bed watching between their toes because those shows are still on. Yeah. I mean, they're, Jimmy and Jimmy are talented guys. They're all talented. You know how many people I have, guys will send me, you know, usually older guys. They have some car they want to sell me or something. Yeah. And I said, email me some pictures. I'm not going to go through that trouble. I'll go down, I'll put a stamp, I'll go down the post office, buy a stamp, stand in line, put it in a slot. I said, that's really not easier than just going, bink, you know. But no, they don't, they don't get it. Well, my friend Jim Vallely has the greatest line about, you know, he's a sitcom writer. I know Jim. You know Jimmy. Okay. So he said when, like he was on Golden Girls, he said, TV guy used to come out and you'd look at the fall preview issue. You'd look at their lineup of different shows for different networks and you'd see the two or three shows you were up against. Now you're up against everything that was ever made. Right. Yeah. It's true. And that's the truth. Yeah. You were up against everything that was ever made. Think about this. TV Guide was the biggest selling magazine in the world. Really? The 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s. Yeah. The biggest selling magazine in the world. Now it's barely a pamphlet, you know. I didn't know that it still exists. It's like a magazine that's, you know, it's like this thick. I mean, that was. I have every fall preview issue from like the late 60s to the mid 80s. I mean, we did a. It was very important to me. A TV Guide on world events as written by TV Guide and jeers to Hitler, you know, it was that kind of stuff. You know. You did that on The Tonight Show? Yeah. Yeah. And jeers to Hitler for invading Poland. So. So, wait. You. You. Did you say you shot seven shows today? Yeah. Yeah. We shoot seven a day for. But that's. 10 weeks, 12 weeks. For 10 weeks. 10 or 12 weeks. Yeah. Right. It seems like every time I turn my TV on, that show is on. Your show. I don't know. It's different times. I don't know. It's a different time? I mean, different markets and different times. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's syndicated. It's like a high school. Boom. Right. But you must love it. I mean, you look like you're having a ball doing it. I like it. It's easy enough to do. You like. You know what? You didn't do The Tonight Show. I got to see the movie. I got to read the book. Right. I got to listen to the album. Right. That, I just show up. What's this guy do? He's like, boom. And you talk. It's like doing jaywalking on the street. Jaywalking. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Same thing. You know, I brought that up recently. I did an editorial on our show about how dumb people were. Oh, yeah. I saw that. That made me laugh. Yeah. who did that whole thing. Well, I mean, that's the most. Right. Everybody accuses everybody of ripping stuff off. It's the most common. Kimmel does it on his show. It's not a rip-off of me. Right. Well. I didn't rip off Steve Allen. Steve Allen didn't rip off the guy on the radio, Arthur Godfrey. I don't know who it was. That's one of the. Well, but you were the first one to. No. Sorry. Your jaywalking thing was specifically aimed at showing how stupid people were. Well, yeah. These people. The other guys, they did talk to people on the street. Yeah. That could sometimes get caught in the act of being themselves. Right. Right. But yours was specifically. this person doesn't know who lincoln is you know it was always amazing to me and that's what was funny about it was and sad at the same time oh yeah but i don't think any no i think you started that jaywalking or else you wouldn't have done it it was in a that was an original it was a lot of fun that was my favorite thing to do and that's sort of what this show is it's sort of the same thing yeah um and you know jay i love it that you're not like you have no like ego about like you climbed the mountain you got to the top for a very long time i've said many times you got fired twice for the crime nobody cares you climb the mountain you talk about climbing i'll tell you a climbing mountain story i had this guy on the i have this guy in the tonight you never let me ask one question let me finish this his guy is blind and he climbed mount everest the most amazing he's an athlete he's blind who hasn't two months he's climbing mount everest he's on the holding on it doesn't know if it's daytime or night it's rains and people's like oh so he's on he's on my show and i see and i said during the break do you do a lot of motivational speaking he's all pissed off and i go i go why he goes every motivational speaker i talk about climbing mount everest and how hot it was and it rinded slowly so you don't know it's day or night you don't know where you are on the mountain you don't know how far you know like i've got to feel my way to the top it took me two months you know and he says inevitably afterwards when he does the meet and greet somebody goes you know i was going to climb everest last year but my kid's got soccer and the wife wife wants to go to a mother-in-law and he's like and he's like blind he's like i just want to i just want to stab these people he's still furious you know hilarious he got fired twice for the crime of being number one um and you know you just have no bitterness have i tell you what they said to me i said i'm number one you know what they said jay we want what's above number one no yes yes that's my favorite quote no and i went come on what's above number one i said we're number one we're winning in every demographic group i know but we want what's above that that yeah is priceless show business stupidity yeah that's wonderful it's well how can you not have fun with well you know i i believe to someone who was sitting in that chair at some podcast we did here i think i was talking about this because the subject of agenting came up and i was saying to me the argument the strongest argument for why you need someone speaking for you is because nbc had ari emmanuel right dear friend of mine right and a genius agent right you know now one of the biggest moguls in the world he had nbc had him in their ear convincing them i mean that is a genius salesman right you can convince a network to look for what was the phrase we want what's above number one right that's and you did not have an agent no i didn't have an agent or a manager right and do you have regrets about that no i don't have any at all because everything i do i spoke for myself there's one thing about maybe you needed that little snake in their ear to say you know you know something you don't you don't need the snake but but the snake works it worked it got it got it got them to again and how did it work in the who won in the end well they canned your ass so you didn't you should still be there you you were i wouldn't still be there now at some point because at some point i shouldn't have to know all of jay-z's music you know i mean it gets to the point where you know when you're 40 and you're talking to 26 year old supermodel sexy when you're in your 60s you're the creepy old guy all right you know what that's such ridiculous thinking just don't be creepy when you talk to them well you can talk to any person of any age that's a ridiculous restriction to put on well that is true but it is true but i just say you can't talk to a 26 year old without leering well not learning you were never a leerer anyway you're you're famously happily married right and a devoted faithful husband you do not have to worry that if if they come out in a short skirt that's because they're they're selling a movie and that well my thing is that i'm not going to change anything because it all worked out fine yes but at least i i rose and fell by my own hand as opposed to other people moving things around you know i remember one time i was on stage well you didn't fall you never fell they felled you again for the crime of being number one and i think if you could have had someone whispering in their ear this is a very stupid thing to do it's called a cash cow that for as long but you know you find in show business you die from a thousand paper cuts what does that mean what that means is when they decide you want you they want you out suddenly things start appearing in the trades that you're difficult really uh yes that happened not to no not to me but i i would see it happen to other people you know things would just get cool like what like give me an example like what did they say well it did happen to me in the sense that once i i did a movie oh i did this movie tina de la this movie a long time ago and i had my contract that i had these certain dates that i couldn't do because i was committed to performing were you the detective that movie yeah yeah that stupid movie yeah yeah what is it called i don't even oh you do come on but anyway i've seen it and then they said no we got to shoot in those days no i already made this commit and then suddenly i started seeing things in the paper i'm difficult my hairdresser was arguing i don't have a hairdresser and i would just see all these things i go okay this is how it works they just plant these little stories and little things happen when you when you control your own fate it's fine and plus the nice thing was you know i'll tell you a story when i was doing the tonight show um i got a call from well how can i say this this uh there was a group of people a whole bunch of comedians are hosting that were were guest hosting the tonight show and they're all handled by the same guy and this guy called me said we want to handle you too and put you in the roster because we're asking 25 000 a night to guest host and i said oh that's okay he said what are you getting to guest house i said i'm getting 512 a night to guest host because that was scale i said okay he said right there he said sign with us and then when he comes around i said you know i'm gonna keep my 512 a night okay and then i told johnny's people i'll do it for 512. and then they look at the ratings and they go you know leno's getting just as good with ratings as johnny owns the company you can save about you know 40 50 000 a month by having him and then i became the permanent guest host and i never discussed money i said the money will come later on and it worked out fine because i got it under the because i said okay and then oh and then they came to me with offers for money and i said oh okay that's fine and i never had to argue well see to me jay that is the quintessential story summing you up because when people ask me about you i always say and of course you do have your detractors i mean i don't i don't quite understand them because i always say like leno's such an interesting guy because like as a human being you you could never do better than asking what would jay do you know he's a very moral guy but he's also italian right and boy when he wants to hide in the closet and outsmart you well i do that because he will always find the way to get to the top of that mountain i had a hunch that that um that jack welsh was on my side and he was the head of nbc of g e o g e which owned nbc yeah so when i when when they were having that meeting and i was listening in i heard him say why don't we go with leno he seems funny he seems to work good he's being a hard worker i like him i went thank you now where did you hear that and when i was in the class i loved it jack jack was in love jack was in the meeting but in the closet that's like only you and r kelly could get away with an in the closet that's right r kelly thank you very much well he does have a hole in the club no no the closet i was just listening no i know just look there i wanted to know what was going on and the funny thing was about it here's a funny thing i did it twice and the second i never knew that yeah and the second time i heard warren littlefield say you know somehow i think leno knows what goes on in this room he says from now on we didn't even speak to we didn't even tell our second lieutenant he says i we didn't tell our second lieutenant what goes on in this room so later that day i'm walking the hall and i see i walk by warren i go second lieutenant jay leno how are you and he goes what the does that mean what's that mean i go no i'm just making a joke what'd you say second lieutenant i just said second oh my god oh yeah it was very funny it was very funny and then another time wait wait so what a mind on him well what did he i'll tell you the second time the second time he was in florida in a meeting so i kept trying to reach him so he said give me his room so They ring his room. It doesn't answer. And I go, oh, he was just downstairs. I bet he was in the bathroom when the phone rang. So I called back again. He goes, hey, it's Jay. I said, where are you? In California. I said, you were just in the bathroom. I was talking about it. He goes, how'd you know that? How'd you know that? And he had the room swept. And that made me laugh afterwards. You know what? That is so fucking. It's very funny. You know what that reminds me of? What? Did you ever see the Jason Bourne movies? Yes, I love the Jason Bourne movies. OK. So at the end of, I think it's the second one, or what he's talking to Pam Landy, the head of the CIA. But the CIA, played by Joan Allen, amazing. Right. That's supposed to be Gina, the head of the CIA. No, Gina, the head of the CIA. She wasn't the head of the CIA. Pam Landy, she winds up being the good guy in the CIA. Yeah, but in the real life, Gina is Haskell. Haskell. Oh, OK. Yeah, she's head of the CIA. Oh, right. She was head of the CIA. Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, so at the end of the first or the second one, he's talking to her. And she's like, oh, I got him on the phone finally. It's like, oh, my Bourne, why don't you come in? He's like, no, I don't think I'm going to do that right now. And Pam, she gets some rest. You look tired. Oh, I remember the scene. Because he was across. Right. And then she's like, what the fuck? Jason Bourne, you are a badass. Well, I'll tell you a story. Dun, dun, dun, that great Moby. Gina Haskell told me one time. How do you know her? I know her a little. We had dinner. The CIA person? Yeah, yeah, Gina Haskell. Why you? I don't know why me. Why me? I don't know. I've been with a lot of people. I've been with Gorbachev, dinner with Netanyahu, a lot of people. You know, when you're on The Tonight Show, they call you. Gorbachev called me when he was in. He said he wanted to have dinner. All right. So I said to Mavis, Gorbachev and Raisha want to have dinner, you know. And he doesn't speak English. No. No. So we have, and of course, I make the big mistake. So I introduce him. And bra, bra, the Raisha. And she said to me, she said, oh, you obviously married an older man. And you see, bra, bra, I got bra, bra. And she gets this look. My husband is not elderly. No, no, no, no. I'm saying, I said, again, I said, no, no, I mean, obviously, you were a child bride. You look so young. I was not a child. I was when he married. OK, I'm just digging a hole here. I'm just digging a hole here. I said, I'm just trying to be funny. OK, fine. So I'm thinking, well, why is Gorbachev inviting me to dinner? And oh, he wanted to borrow $50,000. He wanted to make a donation to the Gorbachev. I said, you know, I don't even give money to Democrats. I'm a critic. You know, he asked me to dinner once, too, Jay. And I said, look, I can't. No, but he was hitting on me. I can't look at that thing on your head. And then it was done. He was hitting on me. He was trying to get me to give him $50,000. All right, so you're at dinner with the CIA. Well, let me tell you a funny story. So I says, is there any like Jason Bourne kind of stuff that actually goes on? And she said, one time, they had an agent. And the agent was driving with a double agent who was a Russian. And they sensed that they were being followed. Wow. So they're trying to lose the guy. So the other guy, someone's driving, and the guy is sitting here. and they had an inflatable doll. So they said, when they come to the corner, open the door, jump out, and the guy will inflate the doll so it will look like he was still in the car. So they race around the car. This guy jumps out, the head pops out. So the car behind him, it looked like there was still two people in the car until they got where they're going. I thought that was great. It just made me laugh. But that's as top secret as it got. You know, we have a whole part of the military called DARPA. Right. You familiar with DARPA? Go ahead. They're like, they're the dudes. Their budget is secret. Right. But it's billions and billions. There is no budget. There is no budget, right. It's like the Virgin Mary. It's perfect, always, the defense budget. DARPA, like, develops, like, the shit we don't even know about. Like, the next wave of, I mean, the other side plainly has stuff, that has caused our diplomats to have headaches. Right, like in Havana, yeah, yeah. Yes, in Havana, some other capitals where they, it must be some sort of sound wave. A microwave, yeah. A microwave that they're, I mean, that's the kind of shit DARPA works on. Right, right. And, you know, obviously, I'd rather have us to have it than them. Right, exactly. Whoever them is. In the same way. Yeah. You asked why I knew. I had done a, when you work for the CIA and you get killed, you get nothing. Star on the wall. Nobody knows who you are. Anonymous star. So we did a benefit for the families of those people. You did? Yeah. Jay. Jay, you're so you. Of course you did a benefit for them. Of course you did. Well, I mean, why, it's not bad. It's not bad. No, it's a good thing. No, I'm saying it's just you. It's like you're always you. You're Super Leno. You're just Iron Jay. Yeah, yeah. But I must say, back to the story about the people who were character assassinating you at NBC, if they really were good at it, would they concoct a story about you having a hairdresser? Well, no, that was a Dino De Laurentiis story. But yeah, me with a hairdresser, yeah, that's really believable. I'm just saying there are certain things that are out of the realm of, you know, believability. But the idea when you run your own show, you hear the information firsthand. Because we have an agent, we hate Leno, he sucks. They said they weren't happy with this one thing you said. No, no, no. You don't get the. The perfect example, I'm on stage one day, and I see a woman like this. A woman like what? You know, wanted me to sign something. Okay. You know, I'm talking, and I said, I said, I'm working. I said, what? Meet me right there by that door when the show's over, and I'll sign it for you. You know, I just, I got some laughs. Okay. Right. So I got back, the show ends, and I see her walk to, as I get over there, here's security, go, Mr. Leno left instructions, he's not signing anything. And I go, what are you saying? You know, I see she's like, oh, like I lied to her. I go, no way, no way. That's what having an agent is like. You have people saying things for you. Right. And I see it all the time. Yes. I would guess they'd come to the Tonight Show, and they would have some road manager that was just treating people horribly. Right. And the star was actually very nice. I agree. Whether they know or not, I don't know. So to me, if I go by myself, if they have a bad opinion, at least it was formed by meeting me. Right. And they wouldn't if they met you, because again, you're Iron Jay. Right. But no, it's true. And I have seen that many times myself, and have had to like say to people. Yeah. Because people who like, have the word security in giant letters written on their back. Right. They just have, it's just going to give you an attitude. Like they've done actual psychological experiments like this. If you put people in certain costumes or things, they act a certain way. Right. The famous one with prisoners and guards. Right. If you are the prisoner and you're wearing the prison uniform, then the guards immediately start acting sadistically. And it's like, okay, you're not really a guard. Right. They just do it. Yeah. Yeah. And security, so they're going to act like big assholes, and we're going to tell you what to do. And I did that once to Prince. Prince was a guest in the. Prince? Yeah, Prince was a guest in the Tonight Show. So we put on a bald wig and a mustache. And I waited at the guard gate, and Prince comes up, you know. And he goes, Prince, Tonight Show. I said, Prince what? Prince. You're the Prince of what? Prince of what? He goes, he's like, I'm a musician. I'm on the show. I'll tell him, hang on. Prince what? You know? And now he's getting pissed. No, I'm Prince, you know. And then I was starting to laugh so hard. And he goes, what's going on? And then he saw it with me. He was like, what? And he starts yelling. You know, he was really a funny guy. He was a nice guy. Really? Prince was a funny guy? Yes, he had a great sense of humor. Yeah, I've heard that too. You know, and the nicest guy, he stayed after the show. He told the audience to stay. He played an hour. You know what? Yeah. I'm remembering this now. Yeah. When Politically Incorrect was newly on and looking for some sort of confirmation that it existed, Prince talked about it on your show. Yeah. Do you remember that? No, I don't remember talking about it. He talked about watching Politically Incorrect. Yeah. Oh, that's great. And sometime later, someone who worked for him at one point and knew him pretty well said that on the road-- this is after he became very devout as a-- what was he? Was he a Jehovah's Witness? Jehovah's Witness, maybe. Something like Seventh Day Adventist, one of those. And that he would invite four ladies back to the room. And they thought there was going to be some great Prince orgy. And he played Politically Incorrect. He played Politically Incorrect with them. He talked to them about Jesus, and he had some bizarre-- No, he was a very nice guy. Yeah. But he talked-- he said-- I'm surprised that when the limo pulled up, he himself said it's-- why didn't the driver? Because I looked at him. I see. I said, you are-- Because he was a man of few words. Well, no. No, when you talked to him, he was OK. Really? He was OK. No attitude, very nice to everybody, not-- No. I'm not saying attitude. I just. No, but you know what I mean. What I always heard about him was that he. was a man of few words. He spoke through his music and didn't-- but I guess he felt comfortable with something. Yeah, he was fine. You know, you're kind of a-- I never won anything. I wasn't trying to get tickets or anything. Right. Well, I'm sure he knew that. You're not like a person who really loves pop music or-- No, I'm just nice enough music, fine. No, I mean, you know, you had music on-- every time I did The Tonight Show, all million times, it was like you were kind enough to have me out first, usually. And then there was somebody in a very short dress. Right, right. And then it was, you know, Lady Antebellum. Right, right. And we would walk over to the side of the stage. We broke a lot of bands on the show. You did. Yeah, yeah. And it was always-- like, when you're right there, standing that close to the band, no matter who it was, I was into it. You know, that's why people want to be in the front row. I'm not a big jazzist. I'm not a jazz guy, but I used to open for Miles Davis. I really enjoyed it, because I watched it being manufactured. Whoa. You opened for Miles-- Miles Davis had an opening act? Who was it? I was-- I'll tell you, it was-- Lenny's on the Turnpike in Boston. It was Miles Davis, comedian Jay Leno-- I didn't get billing. My name was just there. But it was Miles Davis, steak dinner, two drinks, and the show, $12.95. Where were you? In the Order of the Billing-- No, I was first. Reason be the steaks. No, I was first. I was first. And sometimes, I'd go on, and Miles wouldn't show up for 90 minutes. One day, somebody took his yellow jacket, and it disappeared, and yeah. Took his yellow jacket? He always used to wear a yellow-- Right, I remember seeing it. --yellow jacket, and somebody took it, and we had to find it. Yeah. Well, what was that? Herbie Hancock was in the band, too. Yeah. What was that crowd like? Well, you know, back then, this predates-- concerts. Someone like Miles, he would come into Sandy's in Beverly, Massachusetts, any one of these jazz clubs, and you would do five nights for the money you'd make it, one night, playing Symphony Hall or something. But for you, as a comic, what was the crowd like? The crowd was great, because the crowd was-- Super hip. --because it was a jazz audience. So they-- Right. They're like-- they're there to listen. If they didn't like it, they should know. And they were smart. They were smart audiences, yeah. Right. Yeah, I remember the first actor, the first jazz guy, we would call him jazz, was Buddy Rich. And they go, this is my first time on stage ever. Please welcome comedian Jay Leno. And you hear a guy go, we hate him! I go, I've never-- did they see me come in? Did they know my parents? Why would they hate me? I'm trying to rationalize it. Nothing to go on. Yeah, nothing. I've never been at-- I've never been anywhere. It's my first time. Yeah. Right. Yeah, so you get used to that after a while. That was Kimmel. Huh? No, that was Kimmel. You know, Kimmel's great. I'm just fucking with you. You know, I'm a fan. He has this thing that somehow-- We don't have to even-- It's fine. You know, I'll tell you something. I want you guys to be friends, because I-- I think we are. Such great love for both of you. I think he did as good a job hosting the Academy Awards as anybody. Right. Real jokes, really funny jokes, really ad lib jokes. You know, it's just one of those awkward situations where, you know, he was a huge Letterman guy. Yes. And when Letterman didn't get to "Tonight Show," somehow it was my fault. Right. And I think he resented it. And I get that. But you know, Dave never had the "Tonight Show." What? No. No. Maybe I'm remembering these wars wrong. Here's the situation. I conflate this with the first Iraq war sometimes. No, no, no. This is-- Is this a different-- This goes back-- no, now you've got to go back to-- what's the one in Argentina, you know? Falkland. Falkland, yeah. What it was was-- That was a nasty one. Dave was a huge hit at 12:30, huge. Johnny was a huge hit at 11:30. Right. When I started subbing for Johnny, I was lucky enough to be able to maintain Johnny's ratings. So with me there, they had a hit at 11:30 and a hit at 12:30. And NBC did not want to sacrifice one hit. If they moved Letterman down, I would go to CB-- I would just go somewhere else. Right. And then they would have a wide open spot. Right. Plus, there were a lot of executives that did not like Dave because-- for whatever reason. But you had a situation there where they had a hit at 11:30 and a hit at 12:30. To move Letterman down wouldn't have gained them anything. I mean, I guest hosted for five years. I remember asking Zucker, I go-- doesn't Letterman have this job? He said, no. Letterman's a hit at 12:30. We want to keep that a hit at 12:30. Zucker was when? Zucker was at NBC. Jeff Zucker, he was-- I know. He was where at this time? He was at NBC. He was at NBC. He did the Today show at NBC. Yeah, he did the Today show at NBC, too. That was his big-- yeah, OK. But Warren and all those people said, you know-- Warren Little. Yeah, that's a hit at 12:30, and we want to keep it a hit at 12:30. Right. So they had no intention of moving Dave down. Right. You know, I never asked you this, but when you did leave The Tonight Show, there must have been offers to do opposite The Tonight Show show, from Fox or something. There were. There were a lot. You know-- Why didn't you do it? That's-- you know, it's interesting because I remember I heard Kimmel talk to you about that, that I had called him. And I did. And I didn't realize I was supposed to do a follow-up call with him. And I certainly apologize for that. But-- I didn't do it because here's what happened. They decided to-- I was still on the air. They demanded that I say I'm going to leave in five years, even though I was going to be there another five years, because Conan people wanted that. I said, all right, fine, fine. I'll leave in five years. OK, within that five years, Craig Ferguson comes along. And Craig Ferguson is a huge-- he's a huge hit. He won a Peabody. I think he won some Emmys. And now he was beating Conan. And then Zucker called me one day and said, I think we made a mistake. I go, guys, I'm out of here next year, or whenever it was. And he said, well, suppose we gave you a show at 10 o'clock. I said, 10 o'clock talk shows don't work. It didn't work for Cabot and 68. It doesn't work. He said, I'll tell you what. I will pay your entire staff for two years, regardless of what happens. So all my people get paid for two years, even if we get canceled? He goes, yeah. I said, all right, OK, I'll do a 10 o'clock show. Now, I remember Kimmel thought that-- see, people forget all those 10 o'clock dramas were hugely expensive to do, hugely expensive. And they weren't getting the ratings they used to. Like ER. Like ER. Well, ER was a hit. But Law and Order and all the others, and they were just taking a hit at 10 o'clock. The senator's wife. The senator's wife? I'm saying that must have been a show. Well, something like that, yeah. But anyway, those all were a huge-- Tia Leone was the senator's wife. Oh, no, she was-- Tia Leone was-- Something. Doesn't matter. Well, she paid the female president. But people in America are very pretentious about their 10 o'clock shows. Right. I feel like they're very-- Well, Jeff's thing was, if you put a talk show in there, it'll get essentially the same ratings at a tenth of the production costs. Right. OK. I remember I did. I remember I did that show many times, a few times. Yeah. OK. So that didn't work. And then I was, oh, Lennon deliberately sabotaged his show to try and get The Tonight Show. No, that doesn't work. It doesn't work that way. You try and do the best you can, and it didn't work. And then they said, how about coming on at 11:30? I said, look, I don't want to go through this again. Conan-- he goes, if Conan moves back to 12:00, would you do a half hour at 11:30? Conan, if you'll go to 12:00, I'll do a half hour. Just do a monologue and one guest. OK. And of course, Conan didn't want to do that. And that's when he wrote the letter. And then they put me back in, and we became number one again. But after you left, why didn't you go to Fox or some other place? I'm pretty loyal. I don't-- What? Loyal to these assholes who fired you? You know, sometimes the czar you have is better than the one you're going to get. You know what? You know? Here's the thing. Then you have your old team shooting at you as well. I just figured, let's just play this out and see what happens. This all happened fairly quickly. You know, I called Jimmy Kimmel, and I said, I'm getting offers from ABC. I don't want to start a whole thing here. If they're talking to put me on 11:30, would you want to go on at 12:30? I think he said, yeah, you'd like to. I said, oh, OK. We became friends. And that didn't happen, and it became public. And I suppose I should have called Jimmy and explained to him again, but I didn't. I don't know why I didn't. I just didn't. I thought he probably figured it out. But I think maybe he was hurt by that, and I apologized to him for that. But Jay, I feel like you're a victim of the terrible last viable prejudice in America, ageism. You have this idea in your head that, you know, you have to go out to pasture at some point. As I talk to you now, you know, you're exactly the same guy who was there then so like i don't think your brain is diminished you know you're doing all these other shows just doing stand-up you know your hair was white then now it's white now you know it's like it's not like this is a job you have to you know i am a huge believer in low self-esteem what i think it is the key to success because when you don't think you're the smartest person in the room you shut up and you listen when i got the tonight show i hired the best producer i could the best director the people i thought were the best writers i gave them contracts on a yearly basis not 13 weeks i said do the best you can we had the same crew for for 22 years and when they would tell me the show sucked i would go why did it suck and they tell me why it sucked who said it sucked well you know somebody you know you people yeah hey tonight show sucked it wasn't good but who said anybody on the show and the gaffer would say that to you yes my my theory was anybody can pull the cord and stop the train you know i remember one time we had a guy in the basement who i didn't know i had done at the time a transgender joke and i heard this guy was really heard about and i said i still go down to see him you know and he explained the situation i said you know something i apologize i say i said you'll never hear another transgender joke from me again and and he was so taken by the fact that he could bring this show to a screeching halt because of his one complaint he turned out to be the greatest lighting guy or you know sound guy whatever he did that we had oh i thought you were going to say he showed his dick back up no no no but i mean to me that's what worked that's that's what worked for me the fact that you know the fact that here's the thing you're only as good as your last joke when i go on the tonight show now with fallon i go on as a stand-up i don't go on as you know on my day here's the way we did the show you know i go on as a guy who's a comedian who some of the audience may or may not amazing may or may not know that i hosted the show jay we are not competitive on who is a better human being because you always win and that's fine because like i it's like i can't even i can't even get into this arena with you it's like boxing with mike tyson uh we if we're competitive but like who's funnier i'll fucking go toe-to-toe with you there no but you are fucking funny i've always said this to people when they ask me but i said like as funny as leno is on television you have no idea i remember you and i had a talk once it's a long time ago and i was proven right and i said bill by the nature of what you do and who you are it's going to take you a little bit longer but you're going to be there way longer than everybody else jay i was 56 yeah and you're but what i'm saying is you've been on the air now for 23 years something like that doing basically the same show not many 30 30 okay well politically correct what i'm saying was i remember the early days you would complain about not getting guests because they were afraid to come on or whatever we still have that problem yeah but you know something you don't need you don't need it's nice to have right but you don't need it absolutely you don't need it one reason i started this podcast is because it's like yes i give up and i should have given up a long time ago on the idea that oh everybody should be able to talk about politics well they don't and they can't and that's fine right and here anybody anybody can be doing this right right even you jay thank you thank you thank you thank you lovely yeah but what i'm saying is i'm just so proud of you of what you've accomplished no no and the way you've able to do it how you've how you've because i remember when you would come on you always have like one blowjob joke oh we have to edit it out and i go i wish but i wish bill wouldn't do the blowjob joke in the middle of a tonight show set we have to edit around it you know but you always felt you had to put it in there but i like the fact i don't remember that at all i find the fact that now i watch you and you stand on your own and your points are yours i i know you're never lying because you tell the truth on the show and it's what you honestly it's the only new show that i watch where i honestly believe the host believes what they're saying i don't have to agree right but i admire the fact that i can see that and i see that well you should guess coming on talking freer than they do on any other show right and that's really what makes i've never missed one of your show oh i do i watch them all i watch them all well i'm all over clamped um so how many days are you on the road now the this era of your um how many nights maybe 150 something i used to do 210 but i don't anymore you are such a preposterous human being jay now but see i do the road i don't do comedy specials i don't believe i i i remember that do you remember when you smoked a pipe yes that was a long time ago okay but i remember uh you you were always a little older and definitely more uh high up in the show business three than us youngsters at catch a rising star and the improv and the comedy not the comedy star that was out here we were in new york uh the comic strip and uh so like i remember there was a pilgrimage once to see you because you were opening for someone at the westbury music fair which was a level above where we were right right and there was oh we're gonna go see leno and see see how he handles that crowd and we also went to see you at danger fields which was again a gig above ours because it was a headliner who would come to see you at a nightclub a real old-fashioned nightclub danger fields on 61st in new york for two weeks you i think you were there right right and we all came and sat by the knee of the great master and and you were smoking a pipe that's right and giving and doling out your wisdom on i'll tell you a great rodney story you know i love rodney but i knew rodney 40 years ago and i knew rodney 40 years ago and i knew rodney 40 years i had no idea who he voted for i had no idea what his politics were it's just about right so i in 2004 i had i had uh rodney on the show and to me i used to love it when johnny would was with rodney because rodney it's been tough right has it been tough john oh i'll tell you it's been tough six minutes yeah johnny'd have to say a word but johnny would just say rough is it oh i'll tell you a bad week oh bad week you know he would repeat everything and i thought oh i wouldn't give anything to do that so when rodney would go to the show i would go to the show i would come on and he would do that so i had him on in 2004 and rodney was in his 80s okay and he's doing he's doing stand-up i already admired him for that did stand-up and he's sweating and the hand gestures you know how he does the i'll tell you well the hand was a little off and oh you know everything not enough that i think a layman would notice but as a fellow comic and someone who studied rodney right so i i said to debbie i said i think rodney's had a stroke call the paramedics you know she goes really i said yeah there so rodney then he sat down hey jay how are you things are okay now but last week i tell you you know he's doing and he did fine and he was fine so the show ends he went to the dressing room so by this time the paramedics show up and they knock on the door so rodney um paramedics here can they look at you well what's going on so rodney i you look like you're having a stroke i'm fine well i took him on the stretcher he did have a stroke oh he did have a stroke but he managed to get through it okay so a couple of weeks go by so he did the show with a stroke well he looked like he was having he got laughs with a stroke it's like lou gehrig hitting uh he got 28 hits yeah i think before while he had als yeah okay that's a good hitter well this is what it was rodney so they take him out a couple weeks later joan calls me his wife she goes jay rodney's in a coma that's right you got to come to the hospital so i got to the hospital rodney's lying there eyes are open and john says to me uh the doctor said rodney can hear us but he can't respond so i'm looking at him i'm telling how much i love him what he meant to all us comics and how great he was and work at his club was such an honor of him so then joan says to me jay put your finger in rodney's hand oh she goes rodney if you know it's jay squeeze his finger so i feel just a slight squeeze and i went rodney that's not my finger yeah so rodney goes like this i mean his shoulder jumped and joan and then we called the doctor and he didn't last much longer after that but just to get a laugh out of rodney like that was great well my favorite thing if there was anything that we needed to complete the jay leno resume it's you making a dead man laugh okay jay you win but you win but now for fuck's sake you win it was great and you made a dead man laugh but it was now here's what i can offer and it's not nearly on the same level okay go ahead it's so interesting it connects you and rodney yeah that is this when i started and for a number of years after i started the hardest part was the opening because they don't know you right so how do you like break the ice like the place we are now is such a luxury our opening line is thank you thank you please sit down stop clapping for me because i want to do my show right and this is thank you so much but okay but it's a you had to like find a way to do that. And I was just bad at it. And I tried a million things and it just was not moving. my metier, Rodney and you both had things I was so jealous of because Rodney's was, hey, how you doing? I'm all right now. I'll tell you, last week I was in rough shape. Right, right, right. Like, what can't you go from there? Right, right, exactly. So in two seconds, he was in, last week I was in rough shape. Today's all right, but last week, I'll tell you. Last week, my wife told me she was only going to have sex once a week. That's all right. Some guys, she cut out all together. Yeah, right. My favorite Rodney joke was about, what's his club? Topless Bottomless. I go in, there's nobody there. I mean, it's such a perfect joke. Economy of words. Topless, bottomless, there was nobody there. When I was my very first year in comedy, he called me in my little shitbox apartment on 8th Avenue because someone tried to sell him a joke. My first joke, really, my take a lawyer into confession joke. Oh, yeah, you know my Dr. Cohen, Mr. Cohen. Yeah, yeah. So, and he had the grace, and what a great guy, because I was nothing. He could have just bought that joke and said, I don't care if you stole it. Whoever was trying to sell it to him heard me say it and was trying to sell it, steal it. Right, right, right. And I'll always remember that, that he called me. He did not have to do that. No, he's a real comic. Okay. Did you ever meet Joe Ansis? Joe Ansis was his manager? No. Joe Ansis was his muse. Muse? Yeah, Joe Ansis was the guy who made Rodney. I don't know if you ever saw Rodney before he got the no respect thing. Rodney used to do bits. Really? Yeah, I remember seeing Rodney do, and it was a funny bit. He used to do those old-fashioned pieces. He'd go, hey, here's an airline pilot, da-da-da. There you go. Hey, we're flying over, so-and-so, and welcome to flight so-and-so. We find 148 passengers on board. On the left side of the plane, if you look out, you can see the wreckage of flight 907 that crashed two years ago. And then he goes, you were with me on that flight, weren't you, Bob? And it was a huge, and it was like, but it was like a bit like a Smothers Brothers kind. Rodney? Yes, yes. Yeah, Rodney. Rodney used to do material. I never knew that. And Joe Ansis was a guy. Oh. He gave him a character. Think of the funniest guy you know who's afraid to get on stage. Right. He was that kind of a guy. And Rodney was a guy who was afraid to get on stage. And Rodney would sit with Joe after shows, and I think they'd kibitz and go back and forth. And if you read the book, it's a Goldman, Albert Goldman, Ladies and Gentlemen, Lenny Bruce. If you read that book, there's a whole lot of stuff in there about Joe Ansis. I'm a big Albert Goldman fan. No, really. Okay. Well, his Elvis book. Yeah. Did you ever read the Lenny book? Not the Lenny one. I read the John Lennon one and the Elvis one. Well, you should read the Lenny Bruce one. I will. But Albert Goldman took a lot of shit, and maybe he is a shit, but I tell you. Oh, what's that? Sorry, let me just turn. I thought I turned my phone off. Jay, you're. Sorry. The last person I ever thought would have a phone. I didn't even think you had a cell phone. Oh, yes, yes. I've entered the modern age. But you don't text, really, do you? Not really, no. I mean. I don't like having a permanent record of everything I say. No. I was like. Oh, for fuck's sake. Why? Why would I want that? What, are your friends at the CIA going to fucking get a Jason Bourne to assassinate you because of some. What are we talking about? Texting is for just business. You're right. You don't want to write a love letter on text, but that's not what it's for. Whenever somebody tries to start a serious, long conversation on text, I'm like, "No, that's for some other method of communication." I did a joke you would like. I said. President Biden. Someone in the club, someone asked me, he said, "Aren't you afraid of getting arrested?" I said, "No, I'm not afraid of getting arrested." I said, "No, I'm not afraid of getting arrested." He asked me, he said, "Aren't you afraid of being attacked on stage like Dave Chappelle and Chris Rock?" Oh, yeah, I get that now, yeah. And I go, "No." Yeah. Because my audience is my age. By the time they're getting out of that champ, I'm halfway to Cleveland. Again, ageist, Jay. You're too into that ageist view. See, I remember the old days when the only performance you could punch on stage were mimes. Remember? You'd go, "Hey." Guy trying to get out of the box, "Hey, come here. Smart enough." But, Jay, I'm going to finish my story about Rod D. Go ahead. Finish yours. And why. I was jealous of you and Rodney for the same thing, which was getting into what you're doing quickly. Yeah. Rodney had that. You used to come out and go, "See the paper? See the paper?" Yeah, "See the paper today?" Oh, I can't believe it. And it was like, "Oh, fuck. That's so great." One of yours was, "See the paper? I have Muhammad Ali's coming out." "I think he's fighting Buddy Upson." Yeah. I think he was fighting Buddy Upson at the time. Who was? Exactly. Of course. Barnaby Jones. You're a 90-year-old. Barnaby Jones. You know Barnaby was going to fight when someone called him Pops. "Hey, Pops!" Yeah, stupid. Yes. Muhammad Ali's going to fight Buddy Upson. And you were like into it. Yeah, you just start going. And I was like, "Fuck, I need something like that." That used to drive Seinfeld crazy. Why? What do you mean? Because he'd watch me, and I'd have a complete non-sequitur. It meant nothing. I'd go, "Da-da-da-da." "It's the same with insurance." And he would go, "Wait, wait a minute. What's the same with insurance?" After the third time, you see, you go, "Wait a minute. That has nothing to do with insurance. What are you talking about?" And I would go, "It's the same with insurance." And he'd be like, "Wait a minute." Wait, you still do that? No, no. But I'm sure I do it in some other form. But yeah. But when you do your act now, I talked to you recently on the phone. You were at some Indian casino in upstate New York. Yeah, I was just there a couple of Sundays ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it was the Gabino tribe, but Gabino. It was Chief Compadrinka. Yeah, Chief Compadrinka, yeah. Okay, so you do 90 minutes? Yeah, about 90. Okay. And of course, you do it not like me, with a poor man's teleprompter. I have a music stand on stage. Oh, really? Yeah. I've had that for over 20 years. Oh, okay. Do you think I could remember 90 minutes? I don't know. But it was. 90 minutes? It works. Yes, it works. I mean, of course, when I do a stand-up special, like I just did adulting, it's on a teleprompter. But you know, when I was just in Montreal, I was just in Mount Pleasant, Michigan, there's a music stand, and I can't remember 90 minutes. How can you remember 90 minutes in the right order, Jay? Well, I clear my head of everything else. Oh, well, if you're going to go there. Yeah, I should. Well, fuck that. I'm trying to work on a thing now, I thought. Well, fuck that. Clear your head. I'm watching this. Tell me if this is funny. I'm watching. I see this commercial with Doug Flutie and Frank Thomas, some kind of male enhancement thing, right? And they're playing golf, and they're "male enhancement." And then at the end, he goes, "And women like it too. Wink, wink." I go, "Yeah, yeah, try that tomorrow at the office, okay? By the second week, HR will have you on the floor and all your stuff in the box. Come on, pops. Come on, let's go. And women like it too. Wink, wink." Yeah, that's going to work. Yeah, that's going to go over real big. So, are you saying this is a bit you're going to. Is it funny? Very funny. Yeah, okay. But, you know, Jay, you're a funny guy. But when you do your 90 minutes, it's more like stuff like that, because that's the old Leno that I remember that blew everybody away. That's really the Leno that you brought to when you started doing Letterman as a guest on Letterman. I mean, you would just blow the roof off the place, because you were doing chunks of your act that were really funny, but they weren't political. You got more political when you hosted the Tonight Show. Right, right. But, you know, you had that whole hunk about sucking the sugar sacks dry in 7-Eleven. Remember the people who were in 7-Eleven? Oh, yeah, vaguely. Yeah, I can't remember that. Yeah, yeah. The whole show. Packs of little bags of sugar sucked dry. You know what the fun part was? I remember when I would do Letterman, we'd go to the theater, and it was to come up with words that were not swear words, but were hopefully funnier. So, in the sense that, oh, maybe I had the bit, I can't remember what the bits was about, those carnivals, traveling carnivals, and the, you know, the syphilitic druids running the rides. No, no, no. The shirtless man, "Nice looking boy, lady!" You know, that kind of deal, yeah. No, that's not where you said druid. You had a great bit about Bo Derek. And what was that? Bo Derek. Yeah. And John Derek. Yeah. And the two gorgeous people. Right, right. And they got married. Right, right. And you were like, "Okay, I could see the attraction, but like, after they have sex, what is that conversation like?" So, the druids were a working people. Vaguely, yeah. That always killed me. So, the druids were a working. that's what they. imagine you said. I mean, they said after sex. But, no, you had a great. so, that's what your act is now, more like that. Yeah. Bits. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's what I'm talking about. Oh, you did? Because. Like, you wouldn't comment on that, what's going on with the Trump. No, because here's where you are now. Did you alienate half the crowd? I do a couple of references. And I notice the audience, here's the name. You know, Biden did this. Right. And then they wait, is it going to be pro or con? Right. And they decide. and go, you know, some. can we just rise and fall on the joke? Right. You know, I like to think there's some people who go to a comedy show, they just want to see comedy. That's all. They don't want to get a lecture. They don't want to do anything. Right. They don't want to be in a picture. They don't want to be yelled at or whatever it might be. So you just. that's what I love about Rodney. I have no idea where Rodney stood politically. Right. I couldn't care less. It was just about the joke. And that's what I'm trying to do now. But let's not say, Jay, that there's no place in the world for someone who you do know exactly where they stand politically. No, I think it's great. No, no. Because then I don't have an act at all. My situation is different. I do the other America a lot. No, I know. And, you know, like on this game show, You Bet Your Life, we sold it on the premise that there's no politics. Right. And people bought it on that premise. Because I see people come on, I see a contestant, I go, okay, I can tell right away, this is a guy I would not agree with politically. And that's fine. Jay, one of the major themes I've expressed over the last four or five years on the show, it's also in my standup act, is that the biggest problem is that there is so much hate, people can't even know what the other side is saying. Exactly. So the main way to reduce that hate, or at least the first step, is everyone has to stop talking politics all the time. We didn't used to do this. Right. The neighbor back. The neighbor back when we were kids could have been what we would now call a Trumper. Right. But we didn't go there. Right. And therefore, we got along, and the people who think that somehow half of the country they despise will self-deport are delusional. Right. There's not going to be a civil war, or if there is, there's no way to split the country by states. We're all marbled in together. Right. There's four million Trump voters in California. Right. You know, I mean, we can't do that. We have to stop. We have to stop being political about everything. Right. So anything that, like, and again, not me, I'm the exception here, but everybody else, or lots of other people, be apolitical. You're right. Do it that way, because you have to be able to get along with those people. I always say, you can hate Trump, you can't hate all the people who like him. Right. Exactly. It's half the country. And you know, I remember. And you always had your finger on the pulse of that beat. That's why your show was so successful. You. That's why I do personals, because if you can't stand in front of people and do the joke, then it's not effective. You're a coward. You should be able to do the material to the people's faces. And if they don't like it, they'll let you know. And people understand when you're being fair and unfair, and what's a joke and what's not a joke, you know? I mean, is this a Trump joke? I saw this political science professor on the news, and he analyzed all of Donald Trump's. Speeches. And he said that Donald Trump talked at a fifth grade level or below. And when they told Trump this, he called the professor a duty head. Is that a political joke? Of course. Yeah, but. Of course, because. But if you follow it with a Biden joke, then, oh, then it's okay, you know? Well, I mean, that's a political joke for this exact reason, because every single person who hears it will like it or not like it based on how they feel about Donald Trump. Right. Exactly. His fans will hate it. Right. And his detractors will adore it. And everyone will realize it's not really that great a joke. Right, right, right. It's okay. But when you follow it with a Biden joke, oh, okay, then again. Right. I mean, I find that you actually have. I've had reviewers count which side, how many were. You know, I think he's more of this, because there were like nine jokes on this and four on this. But I mean, you certainly used to do that on The Tonight Show. Yeah, yeah. I mean, but then you have to, because you're doing them on the law. Yeah, and we got to. You got to hate mail from both sides. Of course. And that's when you know you're doing it right. Right. That's what I. I mean, I get, for the first time in the last couple of years, I get a mixed audience. I know. Politically. That's what I like about your show now. In stand-up also. Yeah, yeah. Like where 40% will be sort of conservative, and I'll do a Trump joke, and I can. But then they'll still laugh. Right. They're not crazy, all of them. They know he's a preposterous figure. Right, exactly. And now he's really going to look like he couldn't be going down. Yeah. I mean, I really was pessimistic. I was pessimistic about him coming back and winning in 2024. This January 6th hearing, I got to give it to these people, and some of this stuff that's going to come out. I do think he's. I think it's taking him to a degree where they're just going to go. Plus, the country has other problems. They're not concerned about the last election. Yes, exactly. And they see that this guy is, as I always said, everything comes back to the narcissism. That's right. When you're a narcissist, nothing is seamless. You can't see him through any other lens. The whole thing is, I lost the election. That can't be right, because I'm a stable genius. Yeah, just the fact that he said he wanted the metal detector removed, because anybody with a gun is not coming after him. Right. He's the president, right? I know. Yeah. Well, in that crowd, kind of. In that crowd, he was kind of right about that. Yeah. I mean, and, you know, he always said, we have the tough people. Yeah. Meaning the military, the police. And that's very scary when a civilian leader is talking about, like, I don't want to push you too far, but I want you to know we have the tough people with us. In other words, the people with the guns. I mean, we're so close to banana republic and military. We're close, but we're not there. You know, you got Mark Neely and these guys. Who? The chief of staff, you know, military. General. Oh, Milley, yeah. Yeah, Milley. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yes. Had dinner with him, too, actually. Come on. I did. I had dinner with him in Washington. Oh, fuck you, Jay. I did. He's a very nice guy. I know. And a very reasonable guy. Shut up. He's a Massachusetts guy. So how did the, is there just a, is there an 800 number where, like, important people just call you up? No, but I do a lot of veteran things, so you get invited to have dinner and all that kind of stuff. Of course. Perfect Jay. Always doing the right thing. So the world leaders want to talk to him. Hilarious, isn't it? Yeah, I'm having dinner with William Shatner next week. There you go. Suck on that, Jay. There you go. There you go. There you are. I rest my case. I can't. Yeah. So. I know you have a dinner with Lionel Wagner. Is he still with us? No, I don't think so. Okay. Well, why? I'm just making one. Why drag him? I thought the name would get a laugh from you, which it did. No, when you walked in and you said, welcome to Ab's Place, James Franciscus is right. Yeah, that's right. That killed me. Look what James Franciscus gave me, you know, some 19-year-olds, you know. Yeah. All right. Well, I can't tell you how much fun this is. This was fun. Thanks for having me on. You got so loaded, Jay. Oh, God. You know me. That's my life. You've never had a drink? No. Come on. It doesn't interest me. Right. But you never were curious as to just, well, I'm sure your liver thanks you. Yeah, I just. I have no moral, religious, or any, nothing for or against it. Right. It's just, I was always a, I was the car guy, I was a designated driver, so it's just not something that interests me. You're a car guy? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. See, there's a side you know nothing about. I was supposed to do Jay Leno's Garage. Yeah, but you know nothing about cars. So what? It's a celebrity show. Right. You have another show on YouTube that's really about cars. Right, right. But Jay Leno's Garage, you don't have to be. You want to be on? Well, I'll be on. You booked me. I wasn't, it wasn't a want. And what happened? I got COVID. Oh, that's what it was. Okay. Yeah. So it wasn't our fault. So we'll do it again. I understand you just had a bout of COVID. I had a. Jay, I'll tell you a story if you die. I'm joking. I'm just, I'm always mocking how overreactive everyone is to fucking COVID. Well, yeah. So you were fine, right? Yeah, I'm fine. Everybody was fine. I mean, everybody seems to get it now. But, you know, the thing is. Less virulent. We've had vaccines. Like, people got to let it go, don't you think? Well, I think you got to be. It does affect people differently. So I don't know. Okay, let's not. We won't go there. Yeah. But, but this car, I'm fascinated by this. So you, what do you drive? Right now I'm driving a 71 Porsche 911. Which of the 250 cars. Well, 203 actually. Okay, so like. How do you decide when you have that many cars? I mean, you're kind of like the Hugh Hefner of cars, like you have a harem of cars. Whatever I'm working on at the time is usually what, you know. So that's what you want to, it must, what does it cost you just to maintain like registrations, insurance? It's crazy. You must have a whole staff to, I mean, you must have a registration come up every other day. Yeah, I know. Yeah, it's true. And there's somebody who handles this? Yeah, yeah. Well, we got to cover it. We're fine. I know you're worried about it. No, I'm just. I got a full shop. It's so interesting. I do paint and body work. You do metal work. We do fabrication. Really? Yeah, it's 140,000 square feet garage. I mean, if I hit somebody, I could like get, you'd fix it for me? I don't know if I'd fix it for you, but I'd help you out. Really? You do the work? Yeah. You do the body work? That's what we do. That's what we do. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I didn't know it was such a. Oh, yeah. Like a. Come by sometimes, won't you? I'm on. I'm on. Booked on your show. Well, you're not booked now. But I was. Yeah, but you've got COVID, so we'll do it next season. You know what? You don't have to have me if you don't want me. No, I'd love to have you on. If it's really more about the car. Than the person. But I feel like I've volunteered. I taught Norm Macdonald how to drive on my show. I know how to drive, Jay. I have an excellent driver. I sound like Rain Man now. record I do and I watch watch Wapner every day. Wapner? Well, that was in Rain Man, wasn't it? Oh, yeah. Remember, he was Judge Wapner. I used to have a joke about Wapner. Do you remember that joke? It was, that's when People's Court was the only judge show on TV, and Wapner was huge. And I said, you know, it must be tough, though, when he goes to where the judges hang out. You know that bar, like, and they're sitting there going, well, I think the rights of the individual triumph the rights of the majority in certain cases. Here comes Wapner. Hey, how's the case of the puppy stained carpet? How's that working out? You know. I think I do remember that. Yeah, it was a stupid joke. Oh, Jay, you always say that about your jokes. It's a stupid joke. But you wouldn't do it if it was stupid. When there was a writer's strike, like, you wrote your own monologue. Right, right. And nobody else could have done that. There's nobody else. Well, I'm glad the strike didn't last that long. You're both somehow, you're somehow both the guy who never fought. You never fired a writer, right? Isn't that one of your. No, I never fired anybody. Right. Guys left because they got better opportunities. Right. Okay. You never fired a writer, which, that's preposterous. And you also can actually write your own monologue, so you could have fired them all. No, not really, because The Tonight Show is too laborant. It's just too much. No, but when you, I remember when, during the strike, I remember, like, listening to you, I was like, wow, that's an actual real monologue of real, like, new jokes. You must have really worked your ass off. You know, the key to that, I remember one guy said to me on the street one day, hey, I don't like you, but I like your jokes. I said, okay, see, I don't like to manufacture, but you like the product. That's fine. That works with me. You know, I would always see comedians guest host different shows. And they never had material. You know? I mean, the reason Ellen was successful is she was a comedian. Oh, yeah. She opened the show with real jokes. Yeah. You know, it wasn't just, ooh, everybody cool? Ooh, give me some fun. Oh, yeah. You know? It wasn't that. I know. Ellen's a great comedian. Oh, great comic. Great comic. Thinks like a comic. Yes. Has funny jokes. Absolutely. Has an edge to her that's good. And the delivery is perfect. Yeah, she's great. The timing. Excellent. Spot on Benny timing. You know, like, and a minimalist. Yeah. You know, without ever raising the voice. Right, right. And also, like, in her stand-up, very apolitical. Right, right. You know, very, like, everybody can get in on this. And that, I keep saying, we need more of whatever can make us have a communal experience. I agree. And you can't, you're right about your show. You can't, your show, you can't have any politics because right away, everything is tribal. Yeah. And we didn't used to be there in this country. No, no. I mean, a man of, you know, Jay, what are you, 10, 15 years older than me now? Yes, yes, I'm 88 years old. No, no, no. I mean, I know you're in your sevens. Yeah, I'm 72. 72. Yeah. How old are you now, 65? 66. 66. Yeah. I know. But, again. You're not so funny about that. You look the same because you have that Italian thing. No, you look the same because we look the same. I remember once the Rolling Stones were on TV in my office and some interns came in and I went, you know, they got to give him, Mick Jagger looks pretty good. And I look at them and they're like, I mean, they were just laughing because he was this old, old man. And I go, does he really look that old? And they're like, Mr. Willow, the guy's 82. We're 61. Oh, this is recently? Yeah. I mean, this was like maybe 70 years ago. Well, I mean, now. No, I saw them in the. I'll give you another example. We're sitting, we were shooting the car show, you know. And the director said to one of the PAs, hey, David, when did you graduate high school? He said 2012. So it's 2019, 27, 2014. When did you graduate high school, Mr. Willow? 68. 68? 68? Yeah, but. It's a 19, no, 1868, you know. But you know what, Jay? What every other country in the world understands is that that makes you wiser. That makes you know things that other people don't know, which is not a detriment. It's an add. It's a plus. It's good that you know that every other country, every other culture has always gotten this. This is the only stupid fucking one that looks at that and goes, well, it couldn't possibly have any meaning if I wasn't alive. Well, I was talking to one of your producers and it made me laugh. I was talking to a young person, a younger person, maybe 35. And he said, in the course of time, he goes, well, you know, back in the 90s, people were really stupid back then. I go, really? What was stupid about the, what was the stupid part of the 90s? Like, people were illiterate, they couldn't read, what? What was the, and he couldn't tell me what it was, but it's just, people were just stupid back then. Well, people just get more and more stupid, unfortunately. I mean, because the people who, I mean, they were stupid in the 90s, but those people who were stupid in the 90s then became the teachers sometimes of the people. I mean, you know, like, it's so, we're at least two generations past, I think, the last time, I mean, Gen X is the last generation that, like, wasn't a bunch of pussies. And I don't think this country can ever come back from where we are. I mean, people say, well, you know, it'll come back from where you are. Well, I. Yes, you know what it is? I mean, it's like, you talk about the greatest generation, and then you suddenly go to our generation and you see guys like Pat Tingle there. You know, remember the football player who gave up a lucrative. Pat Tillman. I mean, Tillman, I'm not saying, Pat Tillman, sorry. Yeah, died in Afghanistan. Died in Afghanistan, a friendly fire. He was a Arizona Cardinals star, a linebacker. Yeah, I mean, here's a guy who could have had a multi-million dollar career, chose to fight for his. See, you'll always have those, and nine times out of 10, they'll be first generation. Okay. They'll be named Morales or, you know, have some Spanish surname or a Cuban or American or Italian or Latin, because those are the ones that keep the country great. They come in, they fight for the country, they have children, you know. When we used to knock on doors. That's kind of a fuck you to the Smiths and the Jones, huh? Well, I remember once we were doing a J-Walk. They don't fight for their country? And this guy answers the door, and he speaks Spanish, an older guy, he's like 70-something. Okay, he gets his son, the son comes over, he speaks English and Spanish. And then he introduced me to his son, who's got like an F.U. T-shirt on, some kind of pork pie hat, and he's got a video game. And he's just an idiot. I mean, the old man was probably still working, and his son was still working, but not as hard as the old man. And the kid was just a lazy thing. What about the Jews, Jay? Do they make your list of the good people? Yes, they do. No, thank you, the Jews are in. Thank you. Yes, they do. I love the Filipinos. Yes, I love the Filipinos. I think they would fight for their country. They're very, very- Well, that's exactly what I mean. But I think the first, just first-generation people, that was one of the saddest things, when they closed the border, and you had all these people who could have come here, and instead they'll go to someplace else. You know, Steve Jobs was Syrian, I believe, wasn't he? Well, one of his parents, I believe, was Syrian. Well, that's, I mean- Sure. He could have gone to another country. Yes, I mean, well, you're Italian, I'm Irish. Yeah, yeah. I was telling Lisa Kudrow that my grandfather, who I never met, but he was my grandfather, had a full-on Irish brogue. Yeah. I mean, we're a young country. Yeah. And it shows, by the way, because we act like a teenager still. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think in historical terms, we are sort of like a little bit out of our teens, but still acting like douchebaggy. You know, I see the Elvis movie in the theaters now, it always makes me think, like, this country is very Elvis-like. We're, like fat, drug-addled, like delusional gun nuts. Right, right. Just like Elvis. I mean, his story resonates because that's the story of us. It's us. This is us. He was 42 when he died. It seemed so old when I was 25. Do you remember where you were? Yes, I do. I do too. Yeah, yeah. I was 21. I was driving back from my summer, the trip you take to see the country where you drive, and we had no money and an $800 car. And we're selling hash, like easy rider. Right, right. And made it all the way to California. And then of course that took like six weeks and we wanted to get back home so bad. We drove home like in two days. Yeah, that's funny. And I heard it on the radio. Yeah. Driving through Pennsylvania, Elvis Presley. And he wasn't even my era really, 'cause like I was Beatles. Yeah. Elvis was like, oh, he's like this old school. Right, right. And. But when he came back, like after the movie contract in 1970, and Suspicious Minds, that kind of stuff, he was cool again to me. Yeah. And I'm still with you. I remember when he died. I said, you know something, I'm gonna go up to Sauer Records and buy an Elvis record. By the time I got there, there wasn't one record left. Everything Elvis had been sold. It was like, wow, he only died like four hours ago. And yet you told me a story not that long ago. What's that? That you were in Vegas, and they were taking down a big-- No, I saw these two guys carrying Elvis's, one of those six-foot cardboard cutouts. Right. And I said, oh, are you putting up an Elvis thing? The guy goes, putting it up. No, we're taking it down. He goes, nobody knows who Elvis is anymore. All his fans are 80, you know. Yeah, and they just passed me in the hall, you know. That stuck with me. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, obviously, since they made a movie, he must still have some resonance. Of course he sighs, of course he does, sure he does. But you're saying, like, there were. No, I'm just saying it's just a change of, you know, if you don't know, you don't know. But, I mean, it's a little scary to think that someone as big and iconic as Elvis could be, like, who? But I'm sure he is, too. Lots of. Was anybody bigger than Al Jolson? No. No? Say the names. Al Jolson? Al Jolson was huge. Is he the guy who did the blackface? Yeah, yeah. He's mammy and swammy. Yeah, Al Jolson. Jazz singer, the first talker. Okay, yes. Yeah, yeah. You don't remember Al Jolson. Even Bing Crosby. Yes. Frank Sinatra. Yeah. I'm guessing the name rings a bell, but people have no idea that, you know. I mean, a friend of mine has a kid who's 14 who knows me as the car guy. Had no idea I'd. As far as they knew, he did this night show before Jimmy Fallon. You're right. Nuh-uh. You know. You know, he did. Nuh-uh. Well, that's the famous Paul McCartney when he was in Wings. Like, people didn't know he had the. I have him on my phone. I have the funniest call from Paul McCartney. Oh. He calls and he goes. All right, that's all the time we have on the show. No, it sounds like a phony call. He goes, Jay, Paul, Paul McCartney calling. How are you? Because I asked him to be on my call. It was a car show. And I called him and I left a message. And he called me back to say that he's really busy right now. He's on tour, but maybe next season. I said, okay. But it's really funny to hear him just, hello, Jay, Paul McCartney here. Well, Jay, it may interest you to know that Tommy James of Tommy James. And the Shondells. Crystal and Clover over and over. is on my speed dial. Yeah. So, fuck you, Jay. Bobby Vinton, too. Thank you for coming by. I know you have Bobby Vinton, too. I'm sorry that you have him. In fact, Bobby Vinton, I think. Bobby Vinton is out in the hall. He's out in the hall right now. He's on the show. Thank you, my friend. Thanks for having me. I know. You know, anytime you call me, I will call you no matter what it is. And, like, you're the kind of guy, like, this is how. Just to see Hef's play. we get to have a conversation. Fan Duel is now available everywhere in the U.S. So you can get in on the sports action no matter where you are, including these places. Make this your most rewarding season ever with Fan Duel. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER.