Jaxson Dart's Knee Injury Sinks Giants, and Overreactions from Week 2

For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tramphya, proper training is required. Tramphya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit TramphyaRadio.com. This episode is brought to you by Sharpie. For Jeremiah Love, Sharpie's 2026 Rookie of the Year and third overall draft pick, career milestones deserve a signature that stands out. That's why he signed his pro contract using the Sharpie S-Gel pen, making sure his mark looked clean, confident, and unmistakably his. Sharpie S-Gel features no smear, no smudge, no bleed technology, and always vivid writing. High performance for a high performer. For life's biggest signing moments, make it Sharpie. Shop now at Amazon. What's up, everybody? Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. Tom Pellicero here, Shio Kapadia, Billy Gill as well. Monday Night Football, Rams got right. Giants got really, really beat up. We'll get into that game. We'll get into all the various quarterback injuries from week two. We got some under and over reactions. She will bring you those as we break down the entire second week of the season. And also, it's a good night to talk a little bit about replay. How do we feel about the direction things are going after that lengthy review that ultimately didn't actually cost the Chiefs, the game, all that and more right after this. The Ringer NFL show is presented by FanDuel. The NFL is here and it's your most rewarding season ever on FanDuel. With the all new FanDuel Rewards Club, every eligible bet can earn you points, win or lose. The more points, the bigger the rewards you can unlock. Head to FanDuel.com slash Ringer NFL to start earning with FanDuel Rewards Club. 21 plus select states, 18 plus DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. So it turns out the Rams are okay. I think, they're going to be just fine. No Miles Garrett, no Pook and Nakua Shield, no problem against the Giants team. We'll talk about everything that happened with them. But really, even when Jackson Dart was on the field, did not seem to be on their level tonight. They're a US team. You know, you probably have some friends who, you know, they might be in their thirties or forties and they're like, I've never traveled outside the US. Some people are just more comfortable in their home country. And that appeared to be the case with the Rams. Yeah, this was, this was the team we expected to see all season long, even though, like you said, they didn't have Nakua, they didn't have Miles Garrett. They still have 484 yards of offense. You can tell Devante Adams is like, all right, Pooka's not here. This is my time to get some targets and pad these stats a little bit. And he looked incredible. You know, now he's in the conversation with anybody is the best number two in the NFL. So yeah, they got back on track and now they can continue, I think, being a normal football team going forward. Hmm. Think just like that. It's all forgiven, Shiel. After Sean McVay comes out, he says, we're never going to Australia again. You think that the country of Australia has forgiven them after that performance across the transatlantic, I guess it's trans-Pacific travel, right? It is. Yeah. You can go the other way, but you have to go through some places that at the moment are a little bit dicey. Yeah. It'd be very inconvenient to go the other way, probably. Yeah. I don't think that's probably not the best relationship in the world right now, Sean McVay and Australia. But let's see how the season goes. Maybe he changes his tune by the end of the year because they might have to go back there. But yeah, I feel like he just, you know, the minute that game ended and Tom can fill us in whether this was the conversation when he was talking to people, I'm sure the minute that game ended, they're just like, let's forget this. Never talk about this again. Let's get our plan for rest and hydration when we get back to the U.S. and let's make sure we have a great season. So that's what it felt like to me. And if that was the plan, you know what? The plan worked pretty well because they look great tonight. Well, it wasn't totally clean. It wasn't clean either. You know, I know Lisa Salters asked Sean that when he was coming out of the locker room at halftime, like, what allowed the offense to get going? And the look on Sean's face made me think that he wanted his answer to be, well, we had as many turnovers as touchdowns in the first half. So it's not really great just yet. But all those little things, I mean, last week was the second half where things kind of crumbled. Tonight, Stafford was on again without his top wide receiver. The fact that Devontae Adams, I keep just thinking back on the fact that the Rams had serious internal discrepancies. You know, we had a couple of discussions about trading Devontae Adams in the offseason. And I talked with Adams about that before the Australia game. He definitely felt a certain type of way about it. And this feels like this is him showing the Rams and everybody else. He can still do it. I mean, that was a that was a prime Devontae Adams performance, Billy, that we got on national TV tonight. All the attention with Puka out and time and again, he's going up, you know, in traffic and making big catches like he used to. Yeah, two touchdowns. I was 200 yards. Average about 25 yards a game. Honestly, while it was great for the Rams, it was great, you know, for for a team that's dealing with injuries, a team that had a stinker in the first game. I think we as a viewing audience were due for a primetime stinker game, right, which is what we kind of got out of it. Like the Rams loved the result, obviously, considering the injuries they had to overcome and the guys they had out. But, you know, Jackson Dart goes out early. We saw Jameis Winston, which I think was bad for James. I think it's time for Jameis Winston to, you know, to come out. But, you know, if he keeps on there on the sideline collecting checks, it's fine. He's like, you know, the guy, but it goes out there. Fun personality guy. But he, man, he was bouncing passes. He looked totally off. And it used to be a thing when, at least for me, when Jameis Winston was in there, I wanted to watch the games because I knew there'd probably be boneheaded plays, but it'd be fun to be competitive and go down to the wire. And something dumb would probably happen to cost him the game. But, man, he looked off today. I don't I don't think that he's still got it. It's different tonight. Now, you know, Aikman was making the point that you come in in the middle of the game. It's not easy. We'll see what he looks like if he has to play next week and going forward. But, yeah, you're right. Usually he comes in and it's not like you expect him to be great, but he's going for it. The arm looks live. He's got a cannon. He's going to turn the ball over, but he's going to make some incredible tight window throws. This looked like a bad backup, you know, who just doesn't have the talent. Like he was bouncing balls. He was inaccurate. 11 for 27, 111 yards and interception didn't have a lot of energy. So I don't I don't know how he is physically at this stage of his career. But if he has to play that, that's something to keep an eye on. Just does he look like the same guy physically? Forget about some of the decision making that we've obviously seen throughout his career. And he's on the field because Jackson Dart takes one of those hits that each angle that you see of it looks worse. And the one from behind where you see the whole knee cave in like that's that's classic MCL, which is what it sounds like this is. And we all heard the reported on the broadcast of Jackson's trying to get back in the game. They won't give his uniform back until halftime. And listen, we've seen guys play with MCLs before. You can put on that gigantic brace and be out there. Everyone's got to make decisions about what to do from here. But think about this night for the Giants. You're flying high. You just got to win at home against the Cowboys. You're feeling great about yourself. Not only do you lose to the Rams in another national game. You're noncompetitive. Even when you're starting quarterback is in the game. You see Malik neighbors also get beat up and he came back in the game, but he suffers a shoulder injury. And it's been a whole bunch of injuries for him. Andrew Thomas comes out late in that game with I think they call that one a groin injury for Thomas. And then Brian Burns, who's still on the field with four minutes left, gets rolled up shield. Like if you had the list of the Giants most important players, that's probably for the top five. Five guys. And now a whole bunch of different stuff that they've got to sort through here on a short week just to try to figure out, okay, what does this team look? So the aside, even the quarterback position, giant swing of emotions from week one to week two for them. You're right. I mean, those are their most talented players. When neighbors is grabbing his shoulder. You're like, oh my gosh, what is going on with this football team? And then very late Brian Burns, like you mentioned, I didn't even, I don't even remember the Andrew Thomas one. I might've gone to the bathroom or something. I was texting these guys. I don't mean to make light of it at all, but Andrew Thomas came off again. And in a game that's like a three-touchdown game, he limped off the field. He was really gutting it out through that last series he was out there. And then Burns gets rolled up, a really ugly one. And he looked like he was in a ton of pain on the sidelines. So, Billy, a ton for the Giants to just be able to sort through and figure out who's going to be on the field next week. Yeah, the Jackson Dart thing was confusing because if you're following along both in the game broadcast and on social media, you have the amateur lip readers out there saying, like, oh, we saw the head trainer go up and it looked like he told Harbaugh four to six weeks on this injury. So, it's like, wow. I love that corner of the internet, Billy. Sorry to interrupt you, but I will not allow any slander. I don't like the amateur doctors on the internet. But the amateur lip readers, I'm in. You know, they're not hurting anybody. They're just telling you what they see. You can choose to believe whether you think that's what the person said or not. But don't stop doing what you're doing. I personally enjoy it. Sorry. Go ahead. No, I'm 100% with you. And they'll put, like, on the front and they'll say, it looks like he said four to six weeks. And then Harbaugh kind of, like, nods. It's like, well, I guess this is going to be serious. So, then you see him. He's on the sideline and he's walking around. He's limping, but he's walking around. You're like, well, he wanted to get back out there. He didn't want to give his uniform back. He's like, okay, so I guess this isn't as serious. And also, like, you know, we'll get to it later. But, like, when you have this situation where you have a guy fighting to get back on the field that may or may not need to miss four to six weeks, according to amateur lip readers, and another guy that you thought, oh, my God, this guy got shot on the field. They had to wheel him out on a cart. And then it finds out, like, oh, he just, like, has a mild sprain. Like, he's perfectly fine. He definitely could have walked off the field. And we'll get to that later. It's like, okay, I think I'll take the guy that's trying to fight to get back on the field, even if he's going to lose his leg. I'll take the other guy, if you're asking me who I want. Well, you want him to be the MVP. The reason I think that the amateur lip reading, we can stomach a little bit more, is because, like, you don't go to school to get multiple degrees. To read lips, right? There's no master's degree in lip reading. Like, technically, all lip readers are amateur lip readers. I suppose someone somewhere is getting paid to do this, maybe at a party, seeing what's happening on the other side of the room. But mostly, we're all on the same level. Doctors, slightly different. And by the way, speaking of doctors, John Harbaugh, not one, but as we're recording this on Monday night, says low ankle sprain for Brian Burns. If that's confirmed, that's a good sign as opposed to the high ankle. Also said that Jackson Dart's injury is in the MCL neighborhood. There's a lot of things in the neighborhood. Usually, though, those initial exams are pretty good. This is the theme of the week, though, Billy. You just said it. The theme of the week, and this is a good thing. I kind of thought to myself, maybe I jinxed it because I opened last week's show by going, boy, we got through week one. No controversies, no quarterback injuries. This week, we had a slew of them. But this is the rare case where, and again, we'll see what the final result is. Everything seemed to come back, Sheil, more positive. And of course, that would mean negative because if things are negative, that's positive for injuries. But things have been, the news has ended up being more positive. Yeah, it felt like it could really be a disastrous week. When you saw Caleb Williams on the cart there, when they had the towel over the face and they're being carted off, I was like, no, yeah, you really felt for Bears fans and for him in that moment. Because, you know, like Billy said, I watched him in week one. I was like, this guy might win the MVP this season. And he is a highly entertaining player to watch. And it's more fun when the Bears are good. So you had that. But Tom, your reporting indicated today that, you know what? They dodged a bullet. And then Ben Johnson answers the questions at his press conference. And it feels like, okay, you know, he might not play this upcoming week, but he's not going to be out for the season. It's not the most serious injury you could have. You had Jaden Daniels, which I think is still up in the air. You can fill us in there. But then Jackson Dart as well. Even if, you know, if the lip readers are right and it's four to six weeks, is that the best news in the world? But that's better than a season ender, Billy. You know who I miss? And I may just be me that hasn't noticed, but I think they've gone away slowly. Do you guys remember the parabolic mics? The microphone that had like the big circular, like plastic. I think they're still there. I still see them holding those. They're just getting trucked like they used to. I haven't seen them as often as before, but those things. So when I was, you know, coming up in the industry, you'd be an intern, you'd be working, you know, entry level. And the way that it would work is that someone would come up to you, like work at a local TV station. And then the camera guy would say, Hey, you know, I got this side gig. We're doing this football game. We need someone to hold that microphone for the broadcast. You want to do it? We'll give you 10 bucks for the game. You're like, yeah, sure. So you have one of those mics. And I had one of those mics one time and those things, man, you point them, they have a laser on them and you could point into the stands and you could hear every conversation, the person you're pointing at was having. So honestly, whoever had that in this game really dropped the ball by, not pointing it at Harbaugh. And we would know definitively, did we get four to six weeks or did we not? Cause now we're having to rely on the amateur lip readers there. Cause we would have that information. If someone was simply pointing that in the right direction at the right time. So Billy, how many times did you run the parabolic mic for a game? I. Okay. I ran it one time for a game and it was for what is now known as the legends football league. I think the legends football league, the lingerie football league, but then they tried, to clean it up. That's what it was at the time. Yes. But I was wondering why you're listening dollars an hour. I was an intern. I was like, I need to get in good with the camera guys. If I have to make it up, I'll take any odds and end jobs. Working your way up the ladder. I was trying to pay my dues. That's what you do in the industry. In defense of that league. Cause it gets a bad rap. I will say this when you're on field level, you realize this is a sport and they're hitting hard and they're not wearing like full face masks. They wear like the hockey mask where it's just like the face shield, like the glass. And they were trucking each. I was very impressed with the legends football league. I'm afraid to comment or say anything more. Back to you. Yeah. Back to you. It appears it still exists. It's now called the X league. There you go. Okay. It's a good owner. Owner. Mike Ditka. What? Oh, this. I'm going to need some time to go through this. Wikipedia a little bit later, but that's what, uh, that's what we can table that one. We'll come back. Yeah. Apparently. So the, the actual, the quarterback injury news. So with Caleb, and I know that that was like meme central today with him on the cart. Like he is a very driven person. He, if you go back and you look at the play, it's the classic, he feels something pop. He's scrambling out to his left and you can actually see him look back. Like, what was that? Like who hit me? And it was whatever it is. It turns out his hamstring. When I saw that, I thought this guy either had either it's his Achilles. Yeah. Or it's he like, you know, one of those hamstring tendon avulsions where like it rips the tendon off the bone. So I, I was thinking it was a significant thing, but then when I was checking in with people on Sunday night, everyone's kind of like, yeah, no, I don't think he's going to be good. Which I was like, that's remarkable. You know, again, the emotion was not, I'm in so much pain. It was the shock. Of it. Obviously pounding the, you know, I'm sure it doesn't feel great to pull your hamstring like that, but it, but it's also just like the disappointment of, you know, this is a game that they're driving it for a go ahead score in like a extremely difficult day, both weather wise. And cause you're going against Brian Flores and the Vikings defense to just score points. So it's great news. And yes, they've not ruled him out. I'd be surprised if he plays Monday night against the Eagles, but this is all she'll going to be about how quickly he's going to Caleb recovers. And you know, for the bears fan base that was probably holding their breath for the absolute worst, that this would be Tyson Bajan, which it could be worse than Tyson Bajan, but you're not going to see Caleb again until next year. It may be a week or two or three, but this guy's going to be back. Yeah. That that's great news for the bears. Obviously yesterday, you know, Sunday didn't go the way bears fans wanted. It was rainy. It was windy. It was Brian Flores doing Brian Flores things. It was a tough situation. I think, you know, Ben Johnson might, zoom out and be like, that might be a good thing for us. He seems like that kind of coach. He's like, all right, that's going to level everybody. Now we kind of got our butts kicked there. Now we can move forward. We have stuff to improve on, but yeah, the fact that he's not going to be out for an extended period of time is huge. You know, people where I always feel like, like I'm a, I do a podcast. Like I'm not going to make fun of a professional athlete for, you know, you know, the way they react to an injury there. It's always interesting though, when the former players are like picking on him a little bit, I'm like, he didn't know at the time, like it probably really hurt a lot. And at that time he might think his entire season is over. So I think some of that was going on Billy, but you, you might be a little harsher than I am. You are a former D one athlete. And so maybe you looked at that and go, come on. Yeah. I played through worse. No, I mean like when you hear what the end result is, and then you see some of the other injuries that happened, you're kind of like, we could have probably toughed that one out a little bit, but you know, to your point, he didn't know at the time, how severe his injury was. I mean, I would think he was probably advised to take the card and it wasn't his decision where he said like, bring out the card. I can't possibly walk back. Right. But I mean, we have the guys that tear their ACLs and then go walking off the field just to prove how tough they are. And you know, Caleb didn't want to do that. Honestly, I've often thought like, I don't know if you guys would go to theme park stuff like that, but you know, kids and strollers at theme parks at Disney world, stuff like that. It's the greatest gig. They don't have to walk all the miles. They don't have to get their steps in. And, and I've often thought like, I wish there was an adult stroller that someone could just push me around on. And if you're Caleb, it's like, you know what? Walking. not always that fun and him, it was bad weather. He's hurt now. And, and for in the defense of the bears, it kind of came down to that Deandre Swift fumble right in right at the goal line, because without that, they would have scored a touchdown there seemingly and could have won what was an ugly, sloppy, rainy game. Tom, I have a question for you because you were saying headed into the weekend that this was one of your biggest headlines or one of the games you're looking most forward to was Ben Johnson was Brian Flores. Again, did this live up to the hype for you? It did from the perspective that the Vikings took a bears team that scored 59 points the year before and gave up. Was it six? Was that how many they ended up with? Nine, six, I think. Yeah. Right. Nine, three, nine, six. I mean, that's a, it was an unbelievable performance. The weather was the story of the game. I mean, you know, the fumbles and some of the sloppy things that were happening, like that was a, that was a big piece of it, but it was still just the way that Brian Flores mixes it up and what we talked about it on the show, which was it's not all just about he blitzes on three quarters of snaps. It's the different places. And sometimes he just sprays everybody back and goes into a zone and you're just trying to figure it out. He did win that matchup. I don't think there's any question about it. You know, score one for the Vikings who now are two and O with mostly Carson Wentz at quarterback. Tyler Murray got cleared. He'll be back in the lineup against the bucks this week against the Buccaneers team. That's really going to need a win at home. But you know, that that's that you play to the style of the, that's the way it's going to be. I think it's going to be a lot of different conditions at times, but if this had been a bright sunny day at soldier field, I think it would have been very similar. Maybe Deandre Swift doesn't, doesn't fumble at the goal line. But I think that Brian Flores probably plays this thing a lot the same. Meanwhile, other quarterback injury, Jaden Daniels, you mentioned that one shield he's still getting more tests. I don't know that we're going to know anything till more toward the end of the week about how long he's going to be out at this point. My understanding is it's not a given that he's going to go on IR. He missed four games last year. Um, dislocated left elbow. He didn't actually go on IR and that's in that time. And I don't know that he's necessarily going to have surgery. There's, there's a lot of questions. I mean, you it's the same injury again. He keeps hurting the left elbow and that play yesterday. Like, I don't know what you thought shield, but like, that's not one where I go, your elbow is going to come out of place. Like that was, he had stepped on and like braces himself, but it's not his whole body waiter is getting crushed. Clearly. There's something that they have to figure out whether that's where a brace, whether it is to get surgery. Um, he, just, he can't have your franchise quarterback unavailable for as long as Jaden has with, you know, an injury that just seems like it could pop up on any play. Although what you're saying is good news because when you, you know, like I, I watched that and Tom Brady's reaction to that, by the way, I was like, I mean, he's got to pay now. He's, he's got to pay the FCC now. All right. So I was thinking this, okay. They have all these alternative broadcasts now, you know, you got the, you got the man and you got, this is the big thing in media. You don't have to watch the main broadcast. You're going to watch the other, the other people watching the game. I feel like maybe that Tom, that's Tom Brady's calling because when he just reacted naturally there and let a little bad word slip by, I was like, Oh, this is authentic Tom Brady. And I was looking at Daniel's legs. I'm looking at his knees and I'm like, why is he so upset? I don't see anything that crazy there. And then my wife comes in the office and she's like, no, look at his elbow. And I'm like, Oh my, okay. All right. That, that doesn't look good there. But yeah, Brady had a couple of moments like that, Billy. I don't know. I know he likes the Fox, big doing the main broadcast, but I thought that was a little, you know, Hey, Tom Brady can say anything here. Maybe he's having a couple of beers while he's watching the game and he's just letting it rip. Maybe that's what his calling is going to be. Eventually. I was going to suggest that maybe, you know, we have another broadcaster out there, a quarterback who, by the way, in that game alone, his record for franchise touchdowns was surpassed by Dak Prescott. And that's Tony Romo. He's still floating out there. Maybe he does an alternative broadcast too. And then he started throwing in the alcohol. And I was like, maybe we stay away from that one with Tony. A little bit there. Yeah. But I mean, Tom was letting it loose. There are some people that were very outraged by his use of the S word and piss missile, which he used. Well, there's people on the internet that people are Tom. They were out there. They were tweeting. They said, you know what? This man is an atrocity. This is so offensive. My family was watching this. I can't believe that he just said shit on a broadcast. This is horrific. We're not all on Spotify now, Tom, Tom, I've heard you on with Bill. Sometimes you let it fly there. I heard an F word an episode or so ago. Just trying to fit in on that show. All right. I go, I go one F for everyone from Bill. Okay. Okay. So I was wondering the ratio. What are you going to finish that? Like I go one for every three or one for every five. Okay. Listen, it is exciting. If you're someone who's watching with kids, it's, it can be a very exciting moment when someone says a bad word and your kid hears it. And they're like, Oh, like that, that's kind of a nice bonding experience between you. And you and your kids. So don't get too upset about it. They're going to hear those words at school on the bus, whatever. It'll be okay. They'll survive. He also was like, like great passer. He could put the ball exactly where he wanted. He dropped those curses in like, and if you weren't paying like very close attention, you'd miss it. If he didn't say like, Oh, excuse me. Right after he said the S word, it's like, Oh, I didn't, I wouldn't have, there was so much going on. And then when he said piss missile, he just kept flying right by that one, which I guess isn't that bad, but I don't know. Cause when we were back on like local radio, that was one of the words you couldn't say for whatever reason is piss. It was very strange. The words that were the yeses and the nos on language. But you're not even using it in like a dirty context. Is it a piss missile? Like you're not actually thinking of a bodily function. I don't know, man. Now I'm thinking just shooting balls. Now that I'm thinking about it more, I'm kind of thinking, yeah, but no, yeah. Not in the moment. I wasn't thinking of a bodily function. The only thing I could think of, cause immediately I was like, you know, laughing about Tom saying, but I also was thinking like, what happens right when he says it? Because he corrected himself. As you said, Billy, like, excuse me. It was like a half a second later. Does he get like the slap on the thigh from Burkhart? Is there a producer as you're going, Tom, or is it just like, he's like, Oh my God, what have I done? I don't think it's that. I don't think Tom ever has an, Oh my God, what have I done? Because, well, you know what? I don't know because I've often thought about Tom Brady. He signs this massive, like 10 year, 300, whatever million dollar broadcasting deal on Fox. And then, and he's like at every fanatics thing ever. And he's there and he's signing all these autographs and he's doing all these things. And it gets to a point with him where it's like, did you not make enough? Like, is, have you not made enough money in your lifetime? Can you not just take a weekend off? You have like six kids, like go enjoy the weekend with them. Why are we flying to these appearances and doing all this stuff? So I would think that he should be relaxed because he doesn't need the money, but he does so many things that he's getting paid for. It's like, maybe he does need this money for whatever reason. I guess it's hard. Like, when you make that much money to keep up with this lifestyle, once you're done, even though he's made more after his career than he made during his career. I feel like I saw him like pitching an air fryer or something on Instagram. Did you guys see that one? That was like yesterday. And I was like, he doesn't say no. But if you were being offered what he's surely being offered, like an air fryer. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I only green foods myself, but Hey, I'll, I'll go ahead and pitch this. We need a subway deal at one point too. Like there's a lot of different things he's done where you're like, I don't know if he's eating that, but yeah, here's a million dollars. What do you mean? I told you before I did, I did parabolic Mike work for $10 at a football game. So who am I to say, turn down jobs that are paying, you know, we judge a lot of other, a lot of other games on Sundays, some interesting trends, some teams that have kind of come out of nowhere, some really disappointing teams. What are we overreacting to? What are we underreacting to? Shields got some ideas. The ringer NFL show is brought to you by FanDuel. Thursday night football just got even better with FanDuel with early win. A fast start could be all you need to win big for Falcons versus Packers. Just bet the money line. Then if your team jumps out to a seven point lead at any point in the game, you'll win instantly. So whether your team scores on the opening drive or built an early touchdown lead, you could be celebrating before the games, even over. Check out FanDuel's early win for Falcons versus Packers in the FanDuel app. Just another reason why this is your most rewarding season ever on FanDuel. 21 plus select states or 18 plus DC or Wyoming, opt-in required. Tokens are non-withdrawable. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash fan duel. Chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by Ethos. Buying a house is one of those moments where you realize, oh yeah, I have responsibilities now. And if you have a family, you want to know they could stay in that house if something happened to you. Ethos makes life insurance painless. Get a quote in seconds. Apply in minutes all online with no medical exam. Take 10 minutes to get covered today with life insurance through Ethos. Get your free quote at ethos.com slash ringer. And I, that is E-T-H-O-S dot com slash ringer NFL. Application times may vary. Rates may vary. So week two now fully in the books. Sheil, I'm going to turn this over to you because we talked about week one, right? Where it can, it can be just a complete aberration. Things are weird and there's schematic things that come up that you're not expecting. It's a big adjustment game. And then sometimes that can be a total outlier. in your season. Now we're in week two. Still a small sample size, but you're maybe starting to get a little bit more of a vibe about the teams here. Tell me, what are we overreacting to? What do you want to talk about around the NFL here? Yeah, and just a little caveat there. I don't like the, oh, it's only two weeks patrol, okay? It's like, we're not just going to take a vacation for the first half of the season and come back in week 10 and be like, are we allowed to talk about what's happening now? We're talking about what's happening at this moment in time. We're not saying it's conclusive. Everybody just settle down, go throw some pizza, throw some fries in your air fryer, have a nice meal, listen to the podcast. It's going to be okay. I can find that ad. Yeah. There you go. All right, so here's the game. Here's the game. These are things that I personally actually think at this moment in time. They could be, look very stupid. Six weeks from now, you guys have to tell me, am I overreacting? Am I underreacting? Or is it just right? I've got three things. Billy, I know sometimes we got to go over the directions a couple of times with you. Do you get it? Here. Just one quick question. So you're giving your reaction and then we're reacting to your reaction? Or are you just making a statement and then we react to it? No, I'm going to give you my statement, my explanation why, and then you're going to say, Sheil, you're overreacting. Sheil, that's not a strong enough reaction or Sheil. I agree with you. You lead these off, Billy. I think you got the rules all down now. Okay, so hold on a second though, Sheil. I know it wasn't part of the game, but I will say proper reaction to you saying, hey, weeks one and two, we don't dismiss. They count the same as week 17 and 18, these games. So you're not saying, oh, this is just weeks one and two. It doesn't matter. I mean, those two weeks at the end of the year are going to be very meaningful. We can't dismiss those. So why would we dismiss these? So proper reaction out of you. Okay, so you're with me on that one. Let's see what you think about this one. All right, first one. The Los Angeles Chargers are cooked. I don't want to hear it's only two weeks. I know there's a case. Everyone take a deep breath, chill. They're going to be okay. It's an offense with a new offensive coordinator, Jim Harbaugh. He's never had a losing record. He's won 11 games in five of six NFL seasons. The quarterback still got a lot of talent. It's never as bad as you think in the NFL. You can make that case. I thought about, you know what? Do I actually feel that way? Should I zag and go that way? And then I thought, no, I actually don't feel that way because I watched that game and the offense looked terrible. And Mike McDaniel came in with so much hype. Everyone say he's never had a quarterback as talented as Justin. Herbert. And you know what it looks like? It looks like they didn't practice all summer. Like if Tom broke a story tomorrow and was like, you know, no one was at these training camp practices. There was some kind of, you know, event at the facility and the Chargers actually didn't practice all summer. I'd be like, good news break, Tom. That's kind of what it looked like the first two weeks of the season. I mean, that's what it looks like. Did you see the play? The play clocks winding down. They're trying to bring a wide receiver in motion. He comes in motion. The center's like, I have to snap the ball or we're getting a delay of game. It hits the widers. I think it's Trey Harris. And then they fumble it. This is a third and inches in like a three point game in the second half. So you have that. You have Justin Herbert looking lost fourth quarter alone. He's got multiple fumbles. He's got an interception. They had five or six fumbles in the football game. But then here are the two big things. Why I feel like I'm not overreacting. One is their upcoming schedule at Buffalo, at Seattle, home against the Broncos, at the Chiefs, at the Rams, at home, at the Ravens. That is a brutal stretch. They came into the season with one of the hardest schedules in the NFL. And you're thinking, all right, win the first two games. And then if you lose some of those games, you're going to be okay. But look at that schedule. That's why I think they're cooked. And then the last thing here, I'll leave you with. You know, Tom told us previously that Jim Harbaugh is not like a hands-off type coach. You know, when things get rough, he's not going to be like, all right, you guys got this. You know, I'll come into the office at 11 a.m. I trust you guys, especially he's never worked with Mike McDaniel before. So now I'm thinking, what's that relationship going to be like now that he's feeling the heat, everyone else is feeling the tension. I think there's a chance this gets really, really ugly. I think this season is curtains for the Los Angeles Chargers. Billy, what do you think? I think that that's an underreaction by you. I think it might be worse, because we, I mean, I was listening to some shows, hearing things going on and, you know, Jim is known to kind of flight in the whole fight or flight situation when things get tough. So you kind of wonder if this thing really starts getting going. I think Bill pointed it out. It's like, is Jim even going to be around himself? Like, forget McDaniel. Is Jim going to decide, let me bounce from here. Getting paid a lot of money though. You know, you don't want to leave that money on the table. That is true. And he can't really go back to college for a little bit because he has a bit of a ban there for some time. So. I mean, I think there's a lot of things that look bad right now for them. McDaniel and Herbert do not seem to be on the same page. When McDaniel was down here and, you know, the Dolphins weren't really, they were about a 500 team. They were more hype than they were reality in a lot of the situation with the Dolphins. And then it was like, well, Tua, you know, isn't really that talented. Imagine, and down here, they would say it all the time. Imagine if the Dolphins had drafted Justin Herbert instead of Tua, what this team would look like. And now we're seeing what Mike McDaniel does with Justin. And I saw, you know, a chart where it compared the first two starts of Tua and Herbert. And Tua had, you know, better passing yards, more touchdowns, fewer turnovers. Like Tua was doing a lot better than McDaniel through two games. And granted, it's only two games, but this week Herbert did not even get 200 passing yards. Week before he had 209 passing yards against the Cardinals. Herbert has not looked good. You mentioned the fumbles. They had six fumbles in this game, three fumbles alone by Herbert. They only lost one of them. Had they lost half of them, right? This game would have looked a lot uglier than it was. This isn't a team that we thought was going to be good right now in the Raiders. The Raiders have been a surprising team so far this season. But, I mean, the first week was against the Dolphins and you knew the Dolphins were going to be bad. And now the Chargers may be a bad team. So we don't really know how good the Raiders actually are. We saw what happened with the Cardinals this week. So the Cardinals weren't actually a great team that beat up on this Chargers team. So you're starting to get a better idea of who the Chargers are. Because it's not just the losses. It's who they lost to. And now everyone, and I feel like we were ahead on this curve. It wasn't an original thing. We were just looking ahead. Because Tom, me, you, Sheil, we have certain foresight. Where we were talking last week about this Chargers schedule. And we were like, man, things are going to get rough for them if they don't win this week. And now that they did lose this week, everyone's kind of looking at the schedule like, this one's going to get away from them really quick. So, you know what, Sheil? You said that it's curtains on the season? Underreaction. This may be a thing where, you know, I heard on the interwebs, I heard on the podcast, I heard people saying, is Herbert the guy? Or do we like try to see if someone wants him? We trade him to a team that's looking for a quarterback and we just start over because this experiment isn't working. This could be a whole reset of the franchise if they don't turn it around here. I think that's an overreaction. I just don't know what you, I don't know what you do at that point. Yeah, you may be able to trade Justin Herbert and get a couple of first round picks back. But now what? Now you've got, you've got a coach who's in his, what, mid-60s and is getting paid among the highest paid coaches in the NFL and you're going to draft one? And are you hiring a new offensive coordinator? Like, where do you go? I think it's an overreaction that the season is over. It's still two games. In year three, slow starts are a red flag. I go back to the Texans last year. They started 0-3. They also had a new offensive coordinator and they had a growth process with their quarter, back who didn't look very good. And the defense wasn't playing great. Now they switched the defensive play caller, but all of a sudden, the offense started to find some rhythm. The defense got a lot better. They ended up in the playoffs. That's entirely possible with the Chargers. The schedule though is just so brutal. Like, where do you find the win for this team? Like, are we really to expect right now? Even if the Chargers were 2-0, would you be sitting there going, that team is going to win. That team is going to go into Buffalo and beat the Bills the way that Josh Allen looks right now. That's hard to believe. Following week is at Seattle. One of the toughest places in the NFL to play against the Seahawks team. It looks very much the part of the defending Super Bowl champs. Like, if the Chargers were 2-0, I don't think we'd be sitting there saying they're going into Seattle and winning. If you're 0-4, now you're getting into the danger zone here. They need to figure it out and they need to figure it out fast. We talked about this before the season when I brought up, you know, pressure on Jim Harbaugh and it was within the context of getting paid this much money not to get in the playoffs and be one and done, like to make a Super Bowl run. And the bullet that he had to fire, he fired the offensive coordinator and the offensive line coach and he brought in Mike McDaniel. I always had doubts just going in about how compatible they are and maybe they find ways here to put this thing together. But if 0-2 becomes 0-3 becomes 0-4, then all this other stuff that we're talking about comes into play because there's just, there's not a way to put a lot of easy off-ramp on any of this stuff. And there's not a lot of changes you can make unless you fire the offensive coordinator again. The problem with their schedule too, sorry, the problem with their schedule too is it's not just at the Bills, at the Seahawks. You have Broncos, Chiefs, and then you have an early bye. So it's not even like, okay, wow, they'll get this early bye, this will break things up, they'll be fine. No, because they come off of that bye and they're at the Rams. And at that point, the Rams are going to be healthy. And then you have to play out the rest of the season right after that, you have Texas Ravens so even in in scheduled wins almost. When you're coming off of a bye, they're going to play arguably the best team in the league. So it's not going to be that much of a reprieve for them. And it's going to be a healthy team by that point. They're underdogs. They'll be underdogs in every game you just mentioned, I think. I mean, that's what we're talking about here. They're not expected. They will not be expected to win, I think, any of the next 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 games on the schedule. Now, guys can get injured. And obviously, we don't know who's going to play in those games. And maybe they'll start to play better. And maybe they'll figure it out. And we'll replay this clip. And we'll all laugh at me. I don't think that's the most likely case. Now, I did get this text. Now, this was just from a friend on a group chat today. So this is not a source or anything like that. But when Tom said, where would the Chargers go from here? Here was the question that was supposed to be in the group chat. Who says no? Vikings received Justin Herbert. Chargers received two firsts, a second, Jordan Addison. And J.J. McCarthy. Who says no? I said the Chargers would say no. Yeah, I agree. But Billy, you were a little intrigued there. I saw your face. Listen, I like a trade. I like a trade. I like a who says no. But I mean, if you're the Vikings, you're getting Kyler back, right, Tom? You reported that Kyler should be back this week. So you're going to. I mean, if the trade is right now, maybe the Vikings say no. Because they're like, well, I don't know. Let's see. I don't know so much about this Herbert. Let's see what we have in Kyler still. They did call. They did try to trade for Justin Herbert two years ago. Oh. That's before he was damaged goods. When Jim Harbaugh first got there. And, hey, you want to have J.J. McCarthy? You can bring him. We'll take Herbert. It was a flat no at that time. And Jim Herbert has spent the past two and a half years telling us Justin Herbert is the greatest player, if not person, to ever walk the face of the earth. So the idea of Jim. bailing on this. I just. I don't foresee it. I think there's a lot of unanswered questions. We're still early in this thing. And maybe they turn it around. But you lost to two teams that had top three picks in last year's draft. They got different coaches. Obviously, the Raiders are riding a wave right now with Clint. And they look like they got a ton of juice. And that's a home game for them when they go to L.A. The Cardinals with Michael Fleur, like, they came out ready to play. The Chargers have not looked like they've been ready to play. Two straight games. And the quarterback has not played well. You know, Lev McConkie went out there. I told you guys last Monday night, I didn't think there was any way he was playing. He found a way to get out there. So there are guys that are still competing and want to go win. It's just not happening. It's not clicking. And it's not that I think something has gone wrong with Mike McDaniel. I do think that over time, they'll get it going. But I wonder about, again, the compatibility and what influence, if any, Jim Harbaugh has with that offense. And also just how soon they get it going. Because guess what? If the offense finds their way after the bye, it's too late. You're 1-5 or 0-6 or whatever you are. And you're in a hole in a division that with the Chiefs playing good football and obviously the Broncos being good. And right now, the Raiders being undefeated. You're really in a tough spot here. And the other thing is, even if the offense does find itself, is the defense going to be good enough at that point? You know, like the defense played, you know, okay this week, better than they did in week one. But I don't think that's going to happen. I don't think that's going to be a juggernaut. So two other little theories I had for you on this topic before I move on to the next one. I know, Billy, this is kind of your corner. We did it, you know, a fun show last week. But what if Mike McDaniel's superpower was like building a Tua Tyreek Hill offense, but he can't do anything else? It's like, you know what? Tua and Tyreek, I can scheme this up. We're throwing in the middle of the field. We're going to have explosive plays. Just make sure it's not too cold. But now when you give me maybe a quarterback who can do more, I'm going to struggle. I'm going to struggle a little bit. What do you think on that one? Wow. So you think that he's really good at maximizing limited abilities. Right. But when he has unlimited abilities, that's like his Achilles. He can't do it. He can't do it. His mind gets all scrambled. Like this guy, he can do too much. He had speed in Miami when they were good. He had Tyreek. He had Waddle. He got A-Chan. Like that was the difference maker. And then you go to the Chargers, they're built differently. Miami. It was a small team, but they were fast. The Chargers are not the fastest team. They're big. It is a different thing. Now, Ladd-McConkie is very quick and not the biggest guy. But like they built for years with like the big man thing where like you're, you want everybody to look like Quentin Johnston. This is a different type of thing. They built for Greg Roman's offense. Think about what everything that Jim and Greg Roman did through the years. It was like, we're going to just be the biggest. We're Frank Gore. We're Michael Crabtree. We're just going to be the biggest. We're going to out-physical you. That's not really what Mike has dealt with in the past. And again, I don't think it can't be overcome, but it is a different skill set with different personnel. And then the last question here was, you know, in the summer, you know, after that John Harbaugh video was released, that we're the Giants, and it was making fun of him. And Billy, we were making, in the spring, we were, to be fair, we were making fun of him a little bit too. When there were those stories about he's meeting the athletic trainer at like 4 a.m. at the Giants practice. So what if, when everyone said, Harbaugh's washed, they had the wrong brother this summer, you know? What if Jim Harbaugh has lost his fastball? And it's like, this guy's had a great career. He's always winning 11 games. He's been to a Super Bowl. But to Tom's point, they haven't looked like a prepared team. They've been outcoached, I would say, both weeks. When you're losing as big favorites at home, you have to look at the coaching for sure. They had a situation in this game. They're kicking a 58-yard field goal rather than going for it on 4th and 3. It's like, I thought you had Mike McDaniel. You can't come up with a play on 4th and 3. Rather than attempting this 58-yard field goal here. So there was some stuff like that that's on my radar with Jim Harbaugh. He's also just generally like a kooky guy. You know what I mean? He's a little bit out there. I always have kind of wondered, how is it that he's relating to the modern athlete with some of these things that he starts talking about and gets into? And it wasn't him. His brother is the one that had the dad go out there and give a speech to the team. And it's like, we know you love your dad, but your dad doesn't have to do the who has it better than us. No. Nobody every single year. Like, we've gotten that story. We know that whole thing. We don't got to do it every. I get it. You love your dad, but come on. What are we doing? And by the way, dad's playing favorites a little bit, huh? Heading over there to the Giants. He's not talking to the Chargers. Maybe. Actually, you know what? Maybe he knew. Maybe that's what they need to do is they need to bring the dad over and start talking to the Chargers. Maybe sit him down. Billy's now dunking on 85-year-old Jack Harbaugh. No, I would never. I would never do that. Out of nowhere. Unbelievable. So just for the record, he's defended billionaires. No, stop it. He looks down upon you if you take the $10, you know, parabolic. He did it once, but he was never doing it again. And by the way, seniors, he's not a fan of you either. God forbid. A strong father-son relationship. No. I will say this, though, about what you were telling us earlier about Jim Harbaugh and the Vikings calling him and trying to trade J.J. McCarthy for Justin Herbert and him saying, like, no. And he talks to him and he says the great things about Herbert, how he's the greatest quarterback ever. He did the same thing with J.J. McCarthy. He convinced everyone because he had him in Michigan. Like, this is a great quarterback. This is one of the greatest quarterbacks I've ever coached. And everyone's kind of like, this guy's not really that good. He's kind of limited. And they didn't really win the national championship because of him. But Jim talked him up to the point that he gets drafted high in the draft. And then they're like, hey, you love him. You want him? He's like, nah, we're good. He's not that good. I don't like that about Jim. I don't like that he put the old bait and switch. And then when they tried to give him his guy, he's like, no, I lied about all that stuff. He's not that good. That kind of. That is a hardball thing. Now that I think about it, not to get too far off topic, but John would be like, Lamar Jackson's going to change football. You know, remember he said, he said that back in the day, like we're doing stuff no one else in the NFL is doing. So maybe they just like talking up their quarterbacks, which, you know, that isn't necessarily a bad strategy, but you would like your quarterback to be playing better football than Justin Herbert's playing. All right. So I got a, I got an underreaction from Billy. And then Tom had an overreaction to Billy's reaction off of me on that one. If you're keeping track at home, if you've got a spreadsheet or something that you want to share, I think that's where we're at after the first one. All right. Second one I've got for you. This is kind of on the other end of it. I think the Houston Texans are going to be fine here. I'm saying I got no panic at all about the Houston Texans. So they're 0-2. We know what the stats say about 0-2 teams. They only make the playoffs 16% of the time. But I watched that game against the Bengals, and I don't think it was nearly as bad as the final score indicated. It was one of those games in, in the course of a 17-game season where all the 50-50 stuff is going against you. You get stopped on fourth and inches. You get stopped on third and one. You get stopped on fourth and one. You have a field goal block. I mean, Jamar Chase just makes a miracle touchdown catch. So all those things happen. I'm not telling you it was perfect. They still couldn't run the ball, but that's just been the case for the Houston Texans for like four years now. I thought CJ Stroud played pretty well. I thought the defense played well. They're just giving up some explosive potentials. They're giving up plays to great quarterbacks. And that hasn't been the case in the past, but I don't think that's going to be the case every week where you face Josh Allen and you face Joe Burrow. I think by the end of this season, I'm still going to look at them as a top five defense. So I'm looking at that division. If you look at the AFC South right now, the division is one in seven. The Jaguars have a week one win against the Browns, and they don't have any other wins this season. So I think the Texans still have time to turn this around. Tom alluded to it earlier. They were in this spot last year. They figured it out. They'll like the talent. I think the Houston Texans are on the other end of the spectrum from the Chargers where they're going to be perfectly fine this season. I think it's a proper reaction. I want to say underreaction. I don't think it's an overreaction. I will tell you this. I was going around today and I was finding some Texans podcasts that are on there and it was overreaction Monday. Yeah, so they are not happy with the team right now. This is what I'll say. You make good points in that there's only one win in their division right now, right? So the Colts are 0-2, the Titans are 0-2. They're doing them favors because they're sticking in it. Tom made the point earlier. Last year, they actually started the season 0-3 and they still made the playoffs. So at that point, they're not really overreacting or reacting. The level or the area of concern is kind of what you pointed out, which is also bad luck, which shouldn't always happen, which is 0-4 of fourth downs. Three of those were in the red zone. So there was a fourth and four at the 16, fourth and one at the 18, a fourth and 17 at the 19, but they had to go for it at the end of the game. So those, eventually you'll get those fourth and one, those fourth and two. So that's not going to be the case always. One thing that is concerning, and it has been the case for two years now, is their offensive coordinator, Nick Cayley. So they bring him over from the Rams. In 2023 and 2024, the Rams are struggling in the red zone. They hire him over, they bring him over. He implements a similar system here. And last year, the Texans struggled greatly in the red zone. This year, they're struggling in the red zone to the point that last year they, or last week they had 374 yards of offense. They are 374 this week, 381 last week. They're getting plenty of yards. They're just not ending drives with points and they're not ending drives with touchdowns. So coming into the season, there was some talk of, well, is Nick Cayley going to make adjustments to what the red zone offense was last year? And so far, I mean, this week in particular, they struggled in the red zone. Last week, they fumbled the ball at the end of the game in the red zone, but people were saying they were kind of tipping what they were doing last year based on the number of wide receivers that were on the field. You knew, is this going to be a run play? Is this going to be a pass play? Because on pass plays, they had more than three wide receivers. On run plays, like 68% of the time or something, they had less than three wide receivers. So within the red zone, it was becoming predictable. It would seem that the adjustment hasn't been made yet, but it is something that can be fixed. And the, the 0-4 and 4th downs will turn around. You won't have that every week. Six points is not good enough, no matter who you're going against or what you're doing in the NFL. My concern right now, at least short term, is what's the status of Nico Collins? Hurt his hamstring last week. I think he was either out of the game, but we didn't know about it, or it happened early in the week in practice. Didn't play this past week. Is he going to be playing anytime soon? He's got a history of hamstring injuries or soft tissue injuries. That guy is a difference maker. He might be the most underrated wide receiver in the entire NFL. When he's not out there, it makes a huge impact on everything else that they're doing. He's one of the most trusted targets for C.J. Stroud-Shields. So to me, that's the biggest, I think it's a, it's a, it's the just right. Wasn't that the option? Just right for your reaction. Yeah, that's an option. I think they'll be fine. But without Nico Collins, you know, even this week going to Indy and facing the 0-2 Colts, if you don't have Nico, you know, the biggest issue the Colts defense has had, is being able just to stop the pass on the, you know, anywhere other than where Sauce Gardner is. They've not been able to do it. If you don't have Nico Collins, it makes it a lot easier for them to not give up those chunk plays. It's been a big problem for Indy. Yeah, that's another reason why I looked at Stroud and I was like, this isn't a bad performance by C.J. Stroud. He doesn't have Nico Collins. And like Billy was given yardage numbers there, they were still moving the football. They can't run the ball at all. And the offensive line is still an issue. It's just like Groundhog's Day sometimes with the Texans where they try different combinations and they change personnel. And it's just like, it's still not good enough. It feels like upfront for the Texans. But again, I think they've been there before. Their upcoming schedule is not nearly as daunting as a team like the Chargers. I think they're going to be able to stay in it. And I think they're going to be okay for the long run there. All right, ready for the third one. Here's my last one. Bring it. I think it's panic time for Aaron Rodgers, Mike McCarthy, 2.0. Panic time. After just two weeks, she'll settle down. They're one and one. I know what you're saying, but there are a couple of things here. That was a very ugly performance in New England. And I know the weather wasn't great and the Patriots might have a good defense, but it just, you kind of had that hopeless feeling where like when something good happened for the Steelers offense, it almost felt like an accident or a surprise. I mean, they had 12 possessions and they had one field goal in that game. And then I was looking at all the offensive performances this season. So there's been 32 games. There's been six games. There's been 64 offensive performances. If you look at the nerd stats, the Steelers two games ranked 60th and 63rd out of 64. Their week one game stunk on offense, but they won because they were facing the Falcons and they didn't have to have a great offensive game. So I have some concerns there. DK Metcalf, I think, is at a horrible start to the season. And I was reading, listening. I don't know if I was as far as Billy. Billy, I am interested in your media diet on Mondays. Like some of the things you're referencing here, maybe we can get, maybe we can get into that in a minute. Just how you're consuming various team podcasts and all your dig it up numbers. I think you're going to hit us with cover six, but I was just reading, you know, reading some of the coverage on the Steelers, listening to Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers and Mike McCarthy gets up there and he's being accountable. Veteran head coach. He says, it starts with me pointing the finger at himself. I got to do better. And then they get to Aaron Rodgers. And I know sometimes I didn't watch the entire Aaron Rodgers press conference, but this is in the athletic, a reputable, publication. You know, they've got the quote from Rodgers and it was like, he's trying to say the right thing. He's saying, we have to keep taking the ownership in a game like today. There wasn't a lot of flow to it. We need to be better. And it starts with me, but then he continues. Yeah. At like making sure Mike knows what's working, what's not working, making sure our coaches know so we can call stuff that we feel like has a better chance. Now, listen, I try to put myself in other people's shoes. If I'm Mike McCarthy, I mean, like, all right, you're taking a shot at me. I'm not calling the right things. And then I'm zooming out and I'm just like, what's the history of a quarterback like Aaron Rodgers, you know, or a quarterback at this age being good in the NFL. And it's just like this century, we have literally one example and it's Tom Brady. There's no other quarterback who was even starting games at the age, at age 42 this century. So I look at all those things and I have a lot of concerns about what that offense specifically is going to look like. The rest of the way. I still don't understand why they hired Mike McCarthy and why they thought that pairing the two of them together was going to work 10 years after the two of them were together. Because at the end, they didn't seem to like each other. So when Aaron came back and he was like, I love Mike, I'm only coming back because of Mike. I was like, that's not how I remember that one ending exactly. And you're talking about the press conference and it's like, that's not surprising. It's not surprising at all that that's how that went. Like, you know, Aaron Rodgers at one time was the greatest quarterback in the NFL. And that was a while ago. And I'm sure like anyone, it's hard to kind of accept that you're not like at your peak anymore. And a lot of players have passed you by. And he also doesn't always take full accountability for things, which is exactly what's happening in that thing, which is not going to go well. And the people that they went on, they got him like Rico Dowdle hasn't, hasn't really done anything so far. Pittman hasn't really been a huge playmaker for him. DK Metcalf hasn't really worked out. Like, I don't exactly remember where you were on the, where we should be with the Steelers, but it's, it's not looking good long-term for the Steelers here. I'm in panic mode. I'm saying it's okay to be in panic mode after two weeks. I think that that is accurate, not just for this season, but for the near future. Like, what does this look like next season? Are you Mike McCarthy? Is still going to be here and you're now going to bring in a new quarterback. You're going to draft a quarterback. They might be good enough to not get you a good quarterback. When you hire Mike McCarthy, it's kind of like, well, we're, we're cool with like the Tomlin nine and eight situation, right? Cause do you think Mike McCarthy is going to come in and he's going to win you 11 games, 12 games? No, you're probably going to hover right around and maybe get in the playoffs and maybe not. So I don't really know what, what their goal is here because they haven't looked good. They won last week against the Falcons this week. They, they got blown up by the Patriots and there's big questions about Drake May. I think after two weeks still as to whether or not he's regressed back to his rookie season. So I agree with you. I think it's panic time right now for the Steelers. Billy, I'm going to give you an assignment here while I start because I can do an hour on this, but I'll keep it to a lot less than that. Look how many, look at Mike McCarthy's history and count up for me in his, I believe 18 years, as an NFL head coach, how many times he's had a top 10 offense. So start with that. I want to get the number right. So let's check it. They didn't hire Mike McCarthy to bring back Aaron Rodgers and this is, you know, we're going for it one more time. That was sort of a unintended benefit was that Aaron would come back in a year where it was not a very good quarterback draft or they did not have a high enough pick even if they wanted to draft a quarterback and they've got an extremely veteran roster. that they felt like can in many many ways, win right now. The defense is pretty good. They had a couple of takeaways in that Patriots game. They obviously dominated the Cooper Rush Falcons in week one. They can do a lot of things on that side of the ball to keep them in games. Let's remember that they are one and one. Offensively, BK Metcalf's not playing like himself right now. That much is obvious. Michael Pittman was out last week, had a foot issue, didn't play in the game. Don't think that's going to be anything that's long-term for them. And Aaron Rodgers got the shit beat out of him. It's a 42-year-old quarterback who was getting hit the whole game. That's obviously not good enough. But if you can keep Aaron clean, if you can let him function, he can do enough to keep you in games. In the big picture, if we're talking about years down the line, because Billy asked why they hired Mike McCarthy, because Mike's got a history of quarterback development. Because at some point, and it's after this year, you're going to be developing a quarterback. It's really happening right now. I don't know if Will Howard's the guy. I don't know if Drew Aller's the guy. I don't know if it's going to be one of those players that takes over as the starter. Maybe you're drafting somebody. Maybe you're, you know, whatever this year's equivalent of Sam Darnold is, who becomes available. Maybe you're signing that guy. But Mike has elevated every quarterback he's been around. Brett Favre, end of his career, he was in a downward turn, got him back, then went to the answer championship game in Mike's second year. Dak Prescott was playing at a pretty high level. Mike took him to the best statistically he's ever been. And Aaron Rodgers, he's going to be the best Aaron was a backup who a lot of people thought was a failed first-round pick in Green Bay until Mike began to completely overhaul his mechanics and got him playing at a really high level. So this was a hiring that was much more about we need to do things differently in Pittsburgh. They've had defensive coaches for half a century. Mike's single record, which is how many top 10 offenses in his time as head coach, Billy? 12. 12 out of 18 years, he's had a top 10 offense. It takes some time. Maybe it's not year one, maybe it's year two. But he's got a consistent track record of that. The Steelers offense, I believe eight years in a row, ranked in the bottom quarter of the league. They didn't rank in the top 20 in offense, Mike Tomlin's like last eight years in a row. That's the definition of mediocrity. They want somebody in here who's going to be able to build this thing a little bit differently. Nine and eight, yeah, maybe that is the target. Maybe that is where they're going this year. But the idea is to re-envision what they need to win, develop the quarterback, and be a lot better beyond that. They're going to be competitive. They're going to be in it. But it's not settling. It's not mediocrity. It's part of the vision that the Steelers have. So I'm going to say overreaction that it's already too soon. That was under an hour, I think. Well, no, that was good. That was good background there. I do still like the defense. I'm with you there. The Steelers offense gave up a touchdown yesterday, and the Patriots scored 20 points. So the defense only gave up 13 points the entire game. So I do still believe in that defense, and I think you are right that if this is a competitive team, and I think I had them around eight, nine this season in the summer, that I do think it's going to be led by the defense. I thought that the offensive infrastructure was maybe a little bit better than it's shown through the first two weeks. Because you're right. Aaron Rodgers is getting killed in that game. I mean, he was just taking an absolute beating where I thought, you know what? This offensive line could be pretty good. DK Metcalf, Michael Pittman Jr., Pat Friermuth, they ran the ball pretty well. Last year, I'm like, maybe there's some stuff here where they can be a mediocre offense. My issue is that McCarthy has had a lot of success with offenses. We could look back and be like, this is the worst quarterback situation. I know he's had backups in some of those six seasons that he didn't make it, but those 12 seasons, I mean, you got Favre, you had Aaron Rodgers, you had Dak Prescott, and now it's just like this version of Rodgers with this infrastructure based on what I've seen in the first two weeks panicking. But maybe it's an overreaction. It's the point of the exercise. So Tom saying, overreaction. But is it fair to wonder if with McCarthy, it's a chicken and an egg situation, right? It's like, well, you had three Hall of Fame quarterbacks along the line, too. Were they going to be Hall of Fame quarterbacks, and you got them, or did you make them Hall of Fame quarterbacks, or is it a little bit of both, right? Favre was a Hall of Famer before Mike got there, but Favre in 05, 06 was Mike's first year. He didn't play great. He was in the year-to-year, I might retire dance. I mean, that went on. People forget it wasn't just the three times that he came back. It was all the years before that where he'd start talking about, hey, this might be it for me. 2007, he was the MVP runner-up behind Peyton Manning. He went to the NFC Championship game, and he just won an interception to Corey Webster away from going to the Super Bowl at age 37 at that point. Aaron was, again, he was this Juco kid from Cal who carried the ball up top like a waiter with a plate, and Mike totally overhauled him. I'm not saying Mike is like, you know, he's got some magic dust here, but he does have a really good knack for offense. He's got a proven track record, and he's a good quarterback developer, you know, for three decades now. So all I'm saying is give him some time. There's nothing about 42-year-old Aaron Rodgers he needs to develop, okay? I'll say that square away, but like maybe Will Howard start next year. Maybe Drew Aller, who's got all the talent and just never put it together at Penn State, maybe he gets something out of him. Or maybe it's somebody else. I don't know who the quarterback is in 2027. Maybe it's Justin Herbert. Maybe it's a trade. Maybe he's what Justin Herbert's been missing this whole time. Omar Khan loves the big trades. Like, who knows what it is? But they're setting this up, and I still believe I believe they're a playoff team, and I believe that they're going to be competitive right down to the end in large part because of that defense that's looked really good so far. All right. I think successful debut for overreaction and underreaction are just right. I thought that was nice. Hit on a few topics, gets a little spicy, we disagree a little bit. I don't know. You guys don't seem as enthused. No, that was fantastic. I got one more. Overreaction. I got one more on the other side of this break, too, that we need to get into, which is the way that instant replay is being used. There was a long review, somewhat controversial, would have been all anybody talked about today if the Chiefs had not won that game. Is it too much? Are we comfortable with this level of replay use? Talk about it next. This episode is brought to you by Chevrolet. Chevy drivers need a truck that shows up the same way they do. That's why Chevy Silverado is number one in manufacturer loyalty so they can go where others won't. Make their own way there and always get it done. And as long as Chevy people keep showing up, we'll keep building trucks that do the same. Chevrolet. Together, let's drive. Visit Chevy.com slash trucks to explore the lineup. This episode is brought to you by Core Power Protein Shakes. In football, staying ready isn't just about what you do on game day. Good recovery is just as important to be prepared for your next matchup. Core Power Protein Shakes help you keep going after your workout with high quality protein to build muscle and electrolytes to help hydrate. This shake has all your recovery needs in one bottle. Available in 26 gram and 42 gram protein options. Visit corepower.com to learn more. So we all sat with bated breath on Sunday night and sat and sat some more. It was several minutes while Laquan Treadwell who, yes, is still in the NFL. First round pick in, I believe, 2016 by the Vikings. He is now on the Colts. The biggest catch he's had probably in his entire career. The arc of that play for Laquan Treadwell from biggest catch of his life to, oh my God, he blew it and he's holding his head in his hands to the three-minute review to he's down by contact, giving the Colts a fresh gasp. That was unbelievable in itself. But I came back to this, Shiel, and I was watching this the entire time and thinking about it, which was they show all the different angles. And you can see various pieces of it. And of course they got the Hawkeye system. They're piecing everything together. It's supposed to be clear and obvious, right? That's what the standard from the 1990s, Mike Holmgren had the term of like 50 drunks in a bar. 50 drunks agree, you overturn it. If it's not, you don't. Are we good with this is how replay is being used, Shiel? Are you good with it? I'm good with it. I didn't think there was anything wrong with that process. You know, me watching it just on my couch, looking at it, I felt like he was down. Now, you are right that the whole, hey, it has to be clear and obvious thing. It feels like they sometimes choose when to use that. I don't know that that would pass the 50 drunk guys. Test right there, but earlier in the day, you had a Tyler Shug, you know, QB sneak. Now he got his face mask, like, you know, just grabbed on the play. They didn't call it. So I think that was one of those like, all right, well, we can't reverse this because they're grabbing his face. That's not fair to the Saints. So I think there has to be some level of common sense where it's like, all right, this is the rule, but at the same time, let's judge this in the right way. And I think more often than not, not all the time, but more often than not, they do get and end up getting to the right outcome there. So I do like the expedite expedited review when they can do that. I don't like just sitting around and watching, but I mean, that's a key play in the game. I mean, that's almost the game right there at that point. So I think if you want to look at it a bunch of times and get your experts together and make sure you get it right, I think ultimately they did get it right. So yeah, I'm fine with it. I don't have an issue with it. I'm wondering what you thought, Tom, in terms of the reversal of the call, because I was watching and I thought that they got it wrong, Because originally they said, okay, that's a fumble. That would have been the end of the game. So they said, well, let's review this because we can't have the game end on the wrong call. And I didn't, I think we need to outlaw and ban because this whole thing of like, let's wear the same gloves as the other team's uniform. So you can either wear the jersey color so you can get away with the holding or you can wear the pants color, which is what happened there. We had white on white situation, but you'll see teams that's like, oh, we're playing a red team. We're going to wear red gloves this day. Then we can get away with holds. You can't see it. I feel like we need to go to like neon gloves or something. So we can very clearly see like, this is when this person touched this person here. This is exactly when it stopped happening. There's no confusion. We don't know. Cause I didn't think that he was down. I thought that he was off of him. He hadn't touched him before. He had full possession of the ball, which is a whole nother thing. It's cause like, well, if the ball's here, but it's slightly moving. That was confusing. Everything in football is confusing. It's true. Every rule is confusing. And you're always going to, you know what I don't like is the rule expert that just tells us like, as stated fact, I know exactly what's going on here. And it's exactly what the official said. It's always the guy that's in camp for the officials and their officials are always right. Cause there was a call earlier in that game where there should have been a first down. And they said, no, no, he's short. He was down there, which is like, okay, the chiefs always get these calls, but this is ridiculous. This is going to go against the chiefs, which was a surprise because that's the whole theory out there, Tom. I don't know if you see on, yeah. The internet web's out there and the podcast and the Reddit's out there that there's this theory that they cheat for the chiefs all the time. The chiefs always get the calls. So I didn't love that it took so long. They ended up reversing the call and it wasn't as clear as you would think is necessary for them to reverse a call one way or another. That was a game changing call. Well, had the Colts gone for it and not decided to kick a field goal and give it right back to the chiefs to have them win the game anyway. Where I get queasy is just, I don't know that there's a lot of people. Listen, the fans of the two teams, right? They're going to be all in for whichever way, right? But like the rest of us, it's millions of people watching. And if they just said call stands, I don't think it would have been anarchy in the streets. I don't think the 50 drunks in the bar would have rioted because, oh my God, that was so obvious. I also understand where the NFL is in a spot where the 50 drunks in the bar 20 years ago, like you really get those YouTube clips of games from like 2006. And it's like the standard definition. And like, you can barely even make out, like you'll be watching, you know, like a guy you remember, right? It's like, hey, there's Chad Pennington playing. I think that's him. You can barely even read the number, much less the name on his jersey. But now because we have the slow-mo, because we have the 4K cameras, and because you've got social media where everything's being broken down, you're legislating the game toward those things. And you can, you can argue certainly that that's the right thing to do because if you have access to the technology, why would you not use it? My understanding of what happened with the Treadwell play and the reason it took so long is because there's so many things going on. It's the control. It's when he's down. It's where the defender's hands are. What they saw, they had two different cameras where they could see and they could put it together, control with Treadwell on his right hand, and then a swipe of the defender's left hand on Treadwell's right thigh. And they were able to, put that together. And that was clear and obvious. And there's a bunch of people in the room. Mark Butterworth is the VP of replay. He's ultimately got to put his name on it. He's got to make the call. And it's an unenviable position because again, when it's that tight, you can see it both ways. I just, for me, that looked very close to stands. I would err on the side of stands. And I would say there's a lot of people who like at their core as football fans would prefer, hey, if we need, three minutes and 20 different camera angles to look at this, maybe it should stand. That's where I don't know what the correct direction is, but obviously the NFL is in a spot where they're going, we got all the cameras, we got all the info shield. So we are going to nail it down. I'm not going to, you know, say it's a de novo review. There's been other calls that have stood, but that one was about as close to it's got to stand as you can get while it still gets overturned. It was true. I mean, that was a very tricky play. Because of what Billy was saying about when did he actually have control of the ball? You know, if it was like, if it was a clean catch and he had it right away, it would have been a lot easier. So I feel like, you know, I don't know if it's one in a million, but it's a very rare play that's going to take a little bit more time. So that's interesting. So you guys thought differently than I did, which probably proves your point that if you're taking three people who have no rooting interest in it and we're watching it and we disagree, then the call should just stand. That's the whole thing. Yeah, no, that's true. If you take a poll. So maybe that's just what they should do. Listen, we're available. Poll. For a fee, of course. We're available for a fee. We're watching these games anyway. Billy will charge you, you know, Billy requests $10 per game. And we'll watch. And, you know, you can ask us and you can get us the camera angles. We're going to be sitting here getting ready to do a podcast anyway. And majority rule, no, not majority rules. All three of us have to say overturn. If all three of us don't say overturn, then the call on the field jury stands. There you go. We just solved the NFL's officiating. You know what I would like to see just for entertainment purposes and entertainment value is on plays like that. The replay room, they have a two minute drill and then we'll put the cameras on them and we'll go live to them. We'll see them switching here and there's a clock in the corner that's counting down quickly. And it's like, oh, we got to drag this replay out of the thing. So we stopped. What snacks are they eating? Yeah, they just keep it moving. And we see them. We see like the pressure getting to them. And if they don't get a decision in under the two minutes, play stands automatically. Like it doesn't matter where they were going. If they don't get it in time, play stands. But we see them like, go back, go back. No, no, no. Rewind, rewind. We have only 30 seconds left. Oh, eight seconds here. We got to get this out quickly, quickly, quickly. That's what we need in those. Time limit would be interesting. Yeah, that would be interesting because to Tom's point, if you're taking that long of a time, then it's not obvious. Like if it is obvious, then you should probably be able to get it within. I don't know if it's two minutes. Is it three minutes? But you should be able to get it in a short amount of time. If you're still looking, then it's probably not obvious. Maybe the number, the number one complaint when replay went away for several years, like late 80s, early 90s, was it takes forever. And anybody who was watching the NFL in that time frame before in the first iteration of replay remembers it would be like the game would just stop. It could be like five minutes. It's like, what's going on? They've got a VHS tape. They're rewinding it and fast forwarding. I mean, that's probably essentially what it was. Now they've got all the cameras. It's almost the paralysis by analysis thing. But in the end, the NFL's velocity is get the call right. I think that's what everybody wants when it's that close. If I woke up today and it was like that call stood and that's how the Colts lost, I would be like, I'm okay with that. I can live with it. But that's also not the world that we're in in 2026. All right, we're back on Wednesday. Ringer NFL show coming your way. Big week three coming up in the NFL. We'll have plenty more quarterback updates, injury updates, everything else. Appreciate you joining us. As always, thank you to Chris Arjuna, the whole team behind the scenes. For Billy Shield, I'm Tom. See you next time. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-55. For 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867. Core Power Protein Shakes help you keep going after your workout with high quality protein shakes. High quality protein to build muscle and electrolytes to help hydrate. Available in 26-gram and 42-gram protein options. Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time. We go V! We go V! Ask your prescriber about We Go V, some maglutide injection 2.4 milligrams. We go V! A GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WE-GO-V or visit wegov.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about We Go V. Why wait? We go V! Seven.