Jaxson Dart Is Done, the Giants Are Toast, and the NFC Is Already a Mess

What's up, everybody? It is the ringer and NFL show Wednesday, September 23rd. I'm Tom Pellicero, Shield Kapati, Billy Gill here as usual. We don't have to get into a lot of quarterback injuries to get into Jackson Dart out for the season set to undergo knee surgery. What does that mean for Dart? Where do the giants go from here at a time? They're one and one and have a bunch of winnable games coming up. Is James Winston the guy? Could they make a trade? Who's even available in a trade? Well, discuss all of that. Billy's also got some other stories around the grid iron to dig into, also preview. If there's tonight football game, there's a little bit more compelling than he might think. It all starts right after this. The ringer NFL show is presented by Fandall. The NFL is here and it's your most rewarding season ever on Fandall. With the all new Fandall rewards club, every eligible bet can earn you points win or lose. The more points, the bigger the rewards you can unlock. Head to fandall.com/ringer NFL to start earning with Fandall rewards club. Flex states, 18 plus DC Kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem called 1-800-Gambler, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. So we signed off late Monday night early Tuesday morning talking about hope and optimism and maybe the news won't be as bad as it might have looked for Jackson Dart and the Giants. That was based on what Joe Shane said to an ESPN reporter at the stadium. It was based on Dart standing on the sideline at one point, apparently, trying to get back in the game refusing to give up his uniform until half time. And then John Harbaugh's own statements. It seemed this was going to be an MCL. He was going to be able to get back in the not too distant future. Instead, today now fully confirmed after 48 hours of evolving seal to a place that pretty obviously wasn't good. It's going to be season ending surgery for Jackson Dart and all the follow that entails for everybody involved. What should take away? It sets back the Giants timeline a year, really. It feels harsh to say it. But, you know, after week one and even the start of week two, you thought, okay, there's a chance at least that this is a frisky team, maybe competes for a playoff spot. Maybe they're just competitive and they win 70 games, but you know what, you have a new culture in place. But if you zoom out, I'm sure the conversations that the Giants were having in the spring and the summer were, hey, we got to find out what we have in Jackson Dart this season. We have to know by the end of the year because his rookie season was kind of noisy. There were some ups there. There were some downs there. You really weren't sure, is this going to be the guy to leave your franchise in the future? And now you have to wait another year, really, to find that out. So now all of a sudden the season becomes about, hey, set the culture with John Harbaugh, figure out which of these young pieces are going to be foundational pieces for your organization. But we all know the big question that every franchise has to answer. Do you have the franchise quarterback? Do you have the quarterback you believe in or not? And you just have to wait another year now and see what Jackson Dart looks like when he comes back in 2027. We're going to be having the same conversations going good to next year that we had going into this season. Well, I think you also came into it with hopes of possibly a fringe playoff spot, right? And do you want to waste a year of Malig neighbors? Do you want to waste a healthy year that assuming he's healthy of a calves cat? Do you now just punt on the season because we saw James come in and that didn't look great. And we'd like the idea of James until we kind of saw James. And this was, we talked about it a little bit, a different James. This wasn't the reckless gunslinger. James was throwing it around and he'll get you a bunch of touchdowns and some random intercepts in there because he's making throws. He shouldn't. This is a James who's not hitting targets. He's bouncing the ball. He just looked out of it. And now, you know, I think it's question time for the giants is, is James your guy for the season or what do you do here? Are you comfortable with him? Do you give him another week or two? How do you handle this? Well, first of all, the giant sign, James, to an extension before the season. That was a pretty clear signal. Hey, we want this guy to be the number two. If Jackson start is out, we can win games with James. Any backup quarterback, I've always believed that four games is kind of the target. No backup quarterback. You're looking at and go and this guy can carry us through the entire season. Like that's why they're a backup and not a starter and why they're not getting paid like that. So for James, to me, it starts out with what happens just in the short term. He's going to be the guy they gave him the money. He shouldn't look as bad as he did. Even when James has been bad in the past, it's been entertaining bad. It's been three touchdowns and three interceptions. This was he looked like he had forgotten how to throw a football. I don't think that's going to be a permanent state for James. Look at the giant schedule right now. If you're going to be able to stay afloat with a backup quarterback, this is what I would want to see home against the Titans, home against the Cardinals at commanders. And then you got home against the Saints at Houston before the buy. So those next three games, you got a Tennessee team that's trying to put together right now. Arizona will see played well week one against the Chargers team. It's been a mess so far. And then Washington, that's probably right around the time. Jayden Daniels is back, but I would guess he's not back for that game. Let's see what James does these next three weeks. And let's see if the giants win some games. If you're one in four, one in five, one in six, it's pretty obvious at that point that all right, we need to look at this. What you're saying, she'll and look out to 2027. If we're in it, we find a way to win some of these games. We're sitting there, you know, three and two, three and three, something that like we're alive. That's where it comes down to all right. Is James good enough? Are we winning in spite of James or is he helping us win these games? If not, that's where if I'm Joe Shane, I start to look at the other possibilities that are out there. Can you trade for a Mac Jones? Can you trade for a Jay Jay McCarthy? Is that type of a dart throw worth it? Are there people out on the street? Heck, Philip Rivers played last year guys who are retired, who potentially you could turn to. I think you open your mind to all those possibilities, but this is not a situation where you just plucked your number two quarterback off the street. It's very much, we sign James because we think he can be the guy. Let's see what he does against three opponents that Jackson, Darter, not feel you would think the giants should have an opportunity to win these games. That makes sense to me by some time three or four weeks. See what James wins? Then back up quarterbacks coaches always talk about get them the full week of practice build the game playing around their strengths and weaknesses. You know, the nightmare scenario is Malik neighbors is frustrated or the defense plays well, but James is turning it over and he just doesn't look like the same guy because he did look down. I don't want to over blow it, but he did just look different physically on Monday night than he has in the past to your guys point. So maybe that was just an aberration and maybe he can look better for the next three weeks or so. And you figure out the rest of the roster. Listen, their past rush has been underwhelming so far for the resources they've invested in that group. You have to get that group going, but you feel like you have a decent offensive line. You have a number one wide receiver. You try to buy some time and then figure it out. If it's just like, listen, it's probably not going to happen this year. Then you go in one direction. If it's hey, we're in the mix. We want to set a culture of we try to win every single week, every single season. We don't pun on any seasons. Then maybe you think about not doing anything reckless in terms of the trade market, but you look around the NFL. Who's available? Which teams are not in it right now? Maybe they've got someone who can be an upgrade over James Winston. I did have one. Very outside the box. It's just an Herbert again. You already got a lot of mileage out of that. Yeah, no, it's not just an Herbert again, but I was getting texted. I said, wow, Tom dropped that amazing nut. You just brought up the hypothetical Herbert trade and Tom brought up that great little nugget there from years past that the Vikings called about him. So I think that worked out well. I don't know if this one. This one you guys might just be like, all right, let's move on. That's ridiculous. But I caught up on the 49ers dolphins game this morning. That was not on my radar on Sunday. Do you hate yourself? No, I did the condensed version. So yeah, I spent a lot of time and I turned it off and loved the third quarter. But, you know, Malik Willis, the dolphins make the big move to sign Malik Willis in the off season. It was only a two year deal. And you look at their roster, their roster's gutted. They're not playing for this year. And I watched Willis. I know his numbers weren't great, but I was like, he's, he doesn't look like a, you know, terrible to me. In this game, he's got nothing to work with. And I was wondering, is there part of the dolphins now that looks at this and goes, would we rather kind of just get off that contract? And just we're not going to win games this year. Let's just kind of ensure that we're going to get a high pick. It's not like we have a bunch of bets that we have to appease on the roster, like the Falcons. You're not going to have a Bijan Robinson and Drake London scenario. And if you're the giants, would it move like that makes sense? I don't know what the price would be. I don't know if that's something that would make sense for anybody. Thomas, you were describing it. Maybe the scenario, you were describing where, hey, if they're in the mix, they're three and two, James Winston's not playing. Well, maybe at that time, you make a call on a player like Malik Willis. And you said, let's just at least check on this and see what it would cost. And maybe it's a move that could make sense for both sides. I don't know. Am I crazy for even bringing that up? What do you think, Billy? So I was thinking we could talk, I was thinking we'd talk about this later because you broke some news yesterday, really, about Will Lev is signing with the Gets. So I thought we'd go on the debut of Around the Gridiron. We could talk about that. But now that we're here and we're talking about quarterbacks. Let's just do this right now. So the will love his thing. He signs with the practice squad. And I didn't think about this until just now, when you're having this conversation, the jets are having a surprisingly successful season so far, right? They're one in one. They could have won the last game, but they're not the laughing stock of the league. They're probably not going to be the number one pick. Now, you know, the talk of the town was the giants coming into town. Jim Harbaugh. He's going to bring them back. Everybody, you know, love their situation loves their players. What if the jets signed will levis to prevent the giants from signing will levis? Because the jets quarterback situation is just fine at the moment. They have two quarterbacks, but there's also been this like slew of quarterback injuries around the league. So our quarterbacks now just hoarding quarterbacks like we do with toilet paper, back in cover. It's like, I don't really need it, but if I do need it and they don't exist, now I have an extra quarterback. So should teams start looking at the fact that there are a lot of quarterbacks going down with minor injuries. And if their quarterback goes down, they don't get one where you start looking into, well, Jimmy Garoppolo's out there. Should we look into Jimmy Garoppolo? He's available. Ryan Danahill. He hasn't played in years now, but he was kind of like a fun name we would say whenever there was a quarterback availability. Should we look at him? Now this one may be way off the wall, but he said he's available just last week. Colin Kaepernick's on a book tour. Do you look into Colin Kaepernick? He told us he's back in shape. RG3 has said he deserves another shot. He should get a look at. He said, Can Newton should get a look at, even though Cam Newton was pretty bad last week. But yeah, I mean Drew breeze maybe, maybe not was kind of putting out there that he wanted to come back. Even though Sean Payden had no idea that was the case. So are these actually crazy ideas at this moment? Philip Rivers came out of a five year retirement and played down the stretch last season in meaningful football games. So take nothing off the table. We know John Arbott, you know, said he wanted to sign Kaepernick back in 2017. Then there were a variety of things that came up and it didn't end up taking place. I would say with regard to Will Levis. First of all, remember, if you said to the practice squad, a team can still sign them off your practice squad to the active roster, even with all the rules that changed out of COVID, like that is still a thing. I didn't think Levis was going to end up at the Giants in part because his old head coach in Tennessee, Brian Callahan, Salah quarterback's coach for the Giants. Not that they had a bad relationship, but maybe just you're trying to get a fresh start, go somewhere around entirely new people. And it might be something that, you know, Will Levis was looking for. The Malik Willis thing is interesting. They sign Malik Willis Miami as much for the person as the player just because like he's such a great guy and a positive presence. And they're probably going to suck so bad for a couple of years. They're like, they need somebody who can take that on their shoulders and it rolls off their back. And they're going to continue leading even when they're overmatched. But these are exactly the types of things guys that the teams think of is they're just trying to figure out, okay, what we may as well make the call. Wild stuff happens in the NFL all the time. So why not make a phone call? And depending who else is in a bad spot? I mean, the Herbert thing we joke about it, but if the chargers with their upcoming schedule are like one in five at the buy or something, of course, people are going to call. I don't know the Jim Harbaugh is going to entertain it, Billy. But these are exactly the types of calls that happen because why not? You don't want to not call on the guy and then she'd be traded and be like, I would have done that. All right. How about this one? What about, and you know, go with me on this one. What about Kirk Cousins? The Raiders drafted their future franchise quarterback. We know at some point in time they will make that transition to Fernando Mendoza to see what do we have here? They've started out surprisingly. We thought that they'd be kind of in line for one of the top picks or two and no right now. But at a certain point, they will make the switch from Kirk Cousins to Fernando Mendoza. If you can get something reasonable for Kirk knowing he's not your long-term plan, why not entertain that call? Well, right now because you're two and no. And the Raiders have good vibes around them for the first time since they went to the playoffs with an interim head coach like five years ago after John Gurdon resigned. So they are riding the wave. You saw Max Crosby, the end of that game celebrating, then going nuts after they get the safety called in the end. So that's what Mark Davis and company have been waiting for. I don't think it's an inevitability that they go away from Kirk even this season as long as they're alive in the playoffs chase. And Kirk is playing well. I just don't see him making that move. I don't think it's, you know, what were the giants when they went from Kirk Warner to Eli Manning? They were like five and four, I think. And it was just like it's time. I don't know that that's going to be the case with the Raiders. Again, unless the offense in Kirk's play begin to dip. But I think it's a great point. And I absolutely think the Raiders will get calls on Kirk Cousins. I think it's probably more likely to be one of the many, many teams that runs that type of system to Clint Kubiak runs. I mean, that's Kirk's entire career with Kyle Shanahan, Kevin O'Connell comes from that general tree like he's always played and had success in that system. But Kirk's contract is interesting because it's really a one year, $20 million contract, but then it's got additional years tacked on that are not totally voidable. They're actually creates an exclusive window for the Raiders after the season to cut him, trade him, or potentially exercise the option to keep him. The last one's not likely because it's so much money and they are going to go to Fernando eventually. But yeah, I think that absolutely. If you can turn Kirk Cousins into like a real draft pick, knowing you have Fernando Mendoza sitting there. I don't think that's off the wall at all, Sheila. I think that's exactly the type of thing you would dinner. Well, especially like four or five weeks down the road, sorry to cut it off. Yeah, no, I think that makes sense. If they're if they're not still undefeated, you know, they're six and seven or seven are now with Kirk Cousins. They're not going to trade him. But if it kind of evens out and they're looking at Mendoza going, okay, he's making progress and practice. Next, next five. By the way, for the Raiders at Saints, home against the Chiefs, at Patriots, home against the Bills, home against the Rams. Well, know a lot more by week seven about the Raiders. Let's put it that way. They've really been well coached. Tom was telling us about Clint Kubiak before the season. And they really, I mean, both their games, they look like they got their stuff together. I mean, how many the Raiders, when guys are catching the football, I'm like, who is that? The broadcast doesn't even know. They're playing up the wrong names out there. When you're doing an out. Yeah, and that was it. You know, Bowers looks like he's going to come back. So when you're a coach and you're still, you know, putting up yards and points and you don't know who these players are, that's impressive. The last name I just thought of because I was going through all the Owen two teams. And I bring this guy's name up way too much, but I just don't understand why he can't be had for like a late round pick. Anthony Richardson, I mean, the Colter Owen to Daniel Jones is back playing. I'm looking at that Giants team. And it's like Anthony Richardson, Skatebo, good offensive line, Patrick or Card. I mean, you got Matt nagging. Can you can you figure out some way to be a little competitive? And it's not. It shouldn't cost you a lot like that. You know, the Colter just hanging on to him and his contract's going to expire. He has no future there. I would at least make that call and be like, will give you a six round pick or something. Come on. You get you're going to have to trade him eventually here. Maybe you take a flyer on a couple of guys like that. And then you see how the next couple of months here unfold. I think you have the same problem trading Anthony Richardson that you do trading Joe Flacco that you do trading Mac Jones, which is the starting quarterback. Gets hurt every year. Brock Pertie, Joeboro, Daniel Jones, all of them. If you look at the recent history, they rarely play all 17 games. So there's a give and take with that. Unless I'm getting offered like a mid-round pick, I'm really reluctant to give up my number two quarterback. I mean, we all know the thoughts that were shared by the likes of Mike Thomas last year when the Browns traded Joe Flacco. Like Joe Flacco wasn't going to be the difference between the Browns making the playoffs or not. So they got something for them and they moved them on. It was just on orthodox. They traded them in the division. This also brings me to we already hit on several of these. The storyline of the week was obviously the quarterback injury. It's Jayden Daniels, who has another appointment with a specialist today. I was told you have Caleb Williams looked like it was really bad. Turns out this is something that he may be able to come back from in a week or two. But you have other quarterbacks in the NFC that are also hurt, including Sam Darnold, who we haven't seen since the first series of the season. Mike, question to you guys is this ability. I'll start with you on this one. Is there a team right now in the NFC that you really trust when you look at, you know, the Rams didn't have two of their best players here tonight. The 49ers are like the 49ers always are where there seems to be a key player going down every week. All these quarterback issues, some teams that have under a chief like, who do you trust? Is there a team in the NFC you actually trust? I mean, trust is a funny word, right? Because like, you want to say the 49ers and they have the highest point difference. If you want to say like, who's been the most dominant so far, but they had that weird Australia game to start the season and then they play the dolphins and they blew out the dolphins by 22 points. Like, you can't really read too much into the point differential for them. Then you have the Vikings, but you have the Vikings who have done this without Kyler. So can you can you trust the Vikings? Because they've looked good without their starting quarterback. You have the Seahawks, but the Seahawks have injuries and they've been doing without Darnold. The Bears now lose Caleb. So you can't really trust the Bears even at one and one. The Rams looked great last week, but they're still missing Miles Garrett. So there's not a team that I think you can definitively say I right now as of week two with everyone's health the way that they are. I trust them. There are two teams on there that I like to watch and I think are surprising so far. And as the season goes on, we'll learn why we probably shouldn't trust them and they're actually not that entertaining. in the Panthers with Bryce Young, who's second in the league and passing. Like, he's been fun, but they're going to get a reality check. They face the Browns this week and then it's Lions and Eagles. So we're going to see what they actually are probably two weeks from now and three weeks from now. So enjoy them while you can because that story will probably fall apart. The Saints have been very fun so far. I really like the Saints. They're plus six. They haven't been dominating people, but they won a game that you didn't expect them to win against the Ravens and that's a good quality win. They lose by one to the Lions who we thought this is going to be one of the teams, you know, in the NFC and so far has struggled a bit, but they've been in all their game surprisingly so when they have Tyler Schuck, who's leading the NFL and passing right now, which after week one, we joke like, we'll take a picture right now if you're the Schuck family because you're never going to see this again. And sure enough, here we are two weeks in and he's still doing it. So that's probably also not going to last, but that's fun. And this week they play a game against another fun team that we just talked about in the Raiders. So like, this is, I would say like, I don't know what title we give it. Maybe like the surprise ball, right? It's not a super bowl matchup. It's not like a conference championship matchup, but like these are two of the more surprising fun teams. And this is a game that when the season started, you probably wrote off like that game is just an easy three. I have no interest in watching that game. But now this might be one of the more fun games this weekend. So I don't think there's a team to trust, but there's enough teams and parody, I guess because of injuries right now. But the NFC's definitely interesting. I mean, Billy Sean Payton has brainwashed you. I think you don't trust the Seahawks. How do we not trust the Seahawks? I mean, the Seahawks week one, they lose their starting quarterback. They come back and they beat the Patriots week two. Everyone going into week two cardinals. Maybe a surprise team. Maybe they're not that bad. Look at what they did to the chargers. They start true lock and they just crush them 31 to seven. I mean, the cardinals in that game, that's another one I just got caught up on 10 first downs, 151 yards, lowest yardage total for any offense through two weeks with the Cardinals last week. I guess the Seahawks. The Seahawks can throw out their backup quarterback and beat teams by three touchdowns and no one seems to care. I mean, Mike McDonald is last 30 games. They're 25 and five and they've lost by more than four points once. It's almost like I don't, I don't even need to see their injury report anymore. They're going to be competitive every single week. JSN is a monster. So yeah, I trust the Seahawks quite a bit. And then I actually did do something here because I knew we were doing the segment. Now, I know there's a lot of power rankings out there, Billy. You might like this. There's a lot of power ranks out there, but I was thinking Kappati of power rankings, maybe K, you are maybe. And these are different. Okay, because we're not doing all 32. And I know we're talking NFC. We're not even doing 16. Tom, we're just doing my top eight. Because I kind of got through eight and I got bored. So I was like, why don't I keep going? So here's, so here. So we have the Seahawks number one. No, start with A. Build it up. She'll come on. Oh, is that what you do? I gave it away already. Well, listen, you could have guessed that the Seahawks are going to be number one. All right, now we're starting over. Okay. Cowboys number eight. Okay, scrolled out and pressed with your defense. All right. Now give us two and then seven. And I'll work our way to the middle. No, no, we're just going to go eight. We're just going to count down from eight. Their defense still stunk last week. The commanders left like three touchdowns on the field. I don't trust them. Lions number seven. My super bowl pick before the season. My gosh, that secondary. It is worse than could even be expected. You read the reports out of Detroit is Dan Campbell's just like, I don't know when Kirby Joseph our hour, you know, great safety is going to be back. Or if he's going to be back and Brian Branch isn't going to be back this week. So that makes me a little bit nervous. Number six, I got the bears. And this is assuming that Caleb Williams is back in a couple weeks. I'm still going to trust what I saw in week one with that offense. I need a trade. I need time to come on here one week and go watch out for the bears in the past rush your market. They're making calls because I really think that's what the bears need here is some past rush. So that's six Vikings number five. I mean, Brian Flores is just killing the NFL right now. Like this, this is amazing. He is just a one of one with his defensive creativity. They get Kyler back. They're 2 and L. I like the Vikings. Four, I've got the Eagles. Ooh, it's a weird Eagle season where Jalen Hertz looks better than I expected. And everybody else kind of looks worse than I expected on the Eagles. But they are 2 and L. So I still got them at four. All right, top three. Ready for this? Well, I guess you already know one. So it's kind of like three and two. Three. And I feel like we barely talked about this team. The 49ers. Did anyone watch the 49ers game last week? Brog Perti went 20 for 22 with 287 yards to touch down. He had two in completions. He did not take a sack. It's like every drive that feels like they're going to score. It's a miracle when they don't complete a pass. So I feel like the 49ers are a little undervalued right now. I don't know that they can stay healthy the whole season. Obviously, that's going to be a question with them. And they're a little older. But right now they are maybe as good as anybody in the NFC. And I still have the Rams number two. I'm not overreacting to week one. Sean McVeigh put it on himself. He said, you know, sometimes you got an 88 coach who flies 24 or 28 hours before you have to be there. We're not going to do that again. We're going to be a good team. So there you go. The Kapadia power rankings, ad folks, your inbox is about to be flooded. I like the APRs. Rams over the 49ers, even though the 49ers beat the Rams less than two weeks ago. I didn't think about that time. That's a bold call. Changes week to week though. Tom. Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry. Rams looks great this week though. Rams were dominant Monday night with no miles Garrett, no pukin, the Cua, the Brock Purdy piece, by the way. And at some point, I think we all have to stop being so shocked. About Brock Purdy like, did you see his numbers this week? He does it all the time. The highest pass or rating in NFL history for qualifying passers, okay? And there's like a minimum number of attempts, right? Is Lamar at 102.2 Aaron Rodgers has fallen to second at 101.9 Brock Purdy doesn't have enough attempts yet because he has missed time with injuries to qualify for that list. No Brock Purdy's career pass or rating is 104.9. He is significantly above any other quarterback by multiple points as the most efficient passer in NFL history. That's how good Brock Purdy is. So yes, while the 49ers have all these moving parts, they sign Brandon Cooks for the practice squad, all the receivers are banged up right now. Like yeah, and Chris McCaffrey does help because that changes a lot. Help people play you. Now it says a ton of dump off passes and screens. You can do to McCaffrey that boosts up your completion percentage. But Brock Purdy performs at a really high level all the time. Like we have to get past and it's still the Mr. 20 for 22. Come on thing. 20 for 22 is crazy. 20 for the diet. I'm with you. I'm it shouldn't be a discussion anymore about whether Brock Purdy is very good at football. Brock, I've been the Brock Purdy is very good at football. How much more can we say it in Shanahan's offense? Always get so much credit and rightfully so. But I think you're saying with the nine you're like, Purdy has a mastery of that offense right now. I was like, you know, next gen stats earlier today. He didn't attempt a single tight window throw according to them in that game. It's just like he knows who's open and then he can also create and let guys get open and you're right and say like they're they're banged up at wide receiver. And I'm like, I don't care. They're going to put up 30 points every single week. So yeah, Purdy has been excellent through the first two games here. And so is Shanahan, by the way, I was worried about this team in the summer. I'm like, you got the Shanahan accident. You got the jet York York thing. And where was it? What was the town in Ohio? Ohio, Palestine, Palestine. Okay. Oh, hi, you had that. I'm looking at their roster. All these guys are over 30. And again, in November, maybe in three weeks, we're like, okay, they're banged up and the age stuff caught up with them. But early in the season, they look really, really good. So I'm with you on Purdy. The Purdy criticism, by the way, also is just because of like how deferential we are like in the public to general managers, assuming they all know exactly what they're doing. And they hit every pick because we're only surprised about Brock Purdy because he was Mr. irrelevant and he was the last pick in the drafts are like, well, he has just no business being as good as he is. He shouldn't have been picked there. And it's like, well, sometimes guys miss, right? And they just miss on talents that go undrafted in the end of signing or they take guys in late rounds that should have been drafted earlier or you know, guys develop and they mature mature Kyle Shanahan helps him grow and become the quarterback that he is, right? So it's just because of where he was taken the fact that every single team passed on him. They were like, is he actually that good? It's like, well, they miss all the time on high draft picks too that don't end up working out. So we shouldn't be that surprised and we shouldn't hold it against Brock Purdy. But here's the standard that I would put it to. How many people, if in your head you're thinking, who are the top five quarterbacks in the NFL right now would say Brock Purdy? Is he top five for either of you? Would either of you, if you were making the list of the top five quarterbacks is Brock Purdy in there? No, I would have top 10, but not top five. Top 13. Highest passer rating in NFL history. Like the whole goal is the draft the guy that fits your scheme and that's Kyle is as good as anybody in the NFL at scheming people open. But you still need to program the quarterback in a way that he's playing on time and getting it to that open guy. As you said, that's the the magic part of this and that's why they committed to Brock Purdy. That's why he's been Kyle's guy and he wants him to be this guy as long as he's there. I think we'd all love to see unless you're actively rooting against them like your Rams family, we'd all love to see like, Hey, the 49ers are healthy the whole year. And Brock Freddie's not thrown to the three of us by the end of the season. Like, what could they do? What could they do in a playoff run? It doesn't take some freak injury to his elbow. You're not going to have that answer until you actually see the guy back in the playoffs and succeed in at a high level. But statistically, like, I don't know, I don't know how you argue it. Let's take a quick break. It's a William Wednesday. Nobody responded when I suggested that's the name for this. I assume that's your name, Billy. It's Guillermo, but it's close enough. Guillermo? Yeah. I'm Cuban. Guillermo's Spanish for William. And we do Guillermo Miracoles or Guillermo Wednesday, with that word. Sure. That's right. That's just ruined ruined my whole bit. All right. Billy's got some stuff right after this. 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See terms at sportsbook.fandall.com gambling problem called 1-800 gambler, call 1-888-789-777-777, or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut tons of non quarterback, non injury, non wild trade storylines, you're on the NFL, Billy, what's on your mind on this Billy Wednesday, Guillermo, Miracle Ace, what do you, what are you burning on around the league? First, I want, I want to left you off the hook because you didn't know that and it's a reasonable assumption to think that my game is really, let me talk this out on the part by the way. Yeah, it's good. It's like, I don't want you to feel bad about that at all. Look, I worked at another show for 15 years. They fully knew my name is Guillermo and they started doing something called Wild Willy Wednesdays and no one calls me Willie, so I will let you off the hook on that first. What is your last name? My last name is Gill, but it's not pronounced Gill if you want to get to that either. Could have been Gilly Gill. I could have been Gilly Gill. I could just be Gilly. I could be any of those things. It's actually a good pronounced heel. You would have been a wacky FM DJ. Gilly Gill here. Yeah. I don't know. That suits me. I think of myself as more of like a straight lace kind of guy. Definitely. Yeah, exactly. You can name yourself, right, people give you your nays, blame my parents for this. Anyways, so I thought, you know what, it's a Guillermo Miracles, as everybody calls around these parts. So let's go around. Let's get some stories. Last week, we were giving you some pre-facts this week, you know, this thing we could do. We can go around the gridiron. So these are all stories that involve the NFL happenings amongst players, not totally off the gridiron because some of these happened on the gridiron, but also not during time of play. So this is just stories around the gridiron. What do you guys think about this? I can't wait. Sounds great. All right. So the first one they're going to talk about, this one was kind of going around the web yesterday. So I go around. I try to check to see in the pre-facts areas of the internet, what it is that the people are talking about. And this one caught fire and I'm wondering what you guys as a journalist think, because I'm just a journalism minor. So you guys presumably are journalism major. So you have an elevated level of understanding of these things. So yesterday, clips were coming out, podcasts of Graham Ben Singer. He had Mike McDonald on the Seattle Seahawks head coach. And if you see the clip, Mike McDonald's sitting on the chair, Graham is sitting on the chair. They had the little clapper thing. I don't I always forget what that thing's called. Is that thing called? Where it's like chint and they slam it down. I know what you're talking about. That was a great discussion. I think it's called a slate. There you go. I should know that. But yeah, slate. The clapper thing though, I think is what we'd all call it. They hit the slate and it's like ready to go and the two of them were kind of talking. And they just go right into it. There's no like, you know, long set up. Welcome to the show. I'm Graham Ben Singer, whatever. And throughout that conversation, Mike McDonald tells a story about why him and Sean Peyton do not really like each other as he put it or not fans of each other. And it goes back to a couple of years ago where Mike McDonald and the Seattle Seahawks realized, oh, when there are open practices, fans take videos. And they put those videos on Twitter. And through doing searches on social media, the Seahawks seem to put together a database of a hundred or so plays that they could see from fan videos when fans were taking videos at open practices. Sean Peyton did not like this whatsoever and said, you guys are cheating. Like and did to a situation of spy gay and he even said it wasn't even like Connor Stallions with Michigan, where we were actively sending someone to take videos. We literally just did searches on the internet, if you believe them. We just did searches on the internet of fan videos of plays and we cataloged like a hundred different plays through those videos. So Sean Peyton said, we're going to out you guys. We're going to put this out there. We're going to cause this big controversy. And Sean did what everybody, Mike McDonald did, what everyone does. And he said, all right, well, I'm going to sue you. And we're going to make this a big deal because you're going to, you're lying about us and that is, you know, I don't even know what they would technically be doing. Defamatory. I guess. Yeah. They say you're defaming us. I don't know what grounds this would have gone on. It would have been a great juicy story. And because the two of them are going back and forth as he compared it to, we're going to hit the nuclear button on you. None of them either ever ended up doing so. And then that was at the end of the story. To go to Indy for the combine, Mike goes for a morning jog. He gets on the elevator, goes back to his room when he gets out of the elevator. Who's there? But Sean Peyton, and he's expecting, all right, well, it's about to go down now. We've been threatening to blow each other up. We've been threatening to sue each other like this. This might be a tussle here in this, in this hotel. And he says that the exchange was kind of like, hey, morning coach, morning coach. And they just went on their ways and that was that. So. What do you guys make of this? Because once this story came out, it's like, this is juicy. This is a fun story. But the turn comes when Mike McDonald's like, well, that was off the record. And it's like, dude, you're sitting on a set saying this with the lights on. We already hit the slate. The microphones were on. We did the checks. Like, why would you tell that story in that setting if you thought that maybe it wouldn't make it out? So what do you guys thoughts on this story getting out and just the story in general? Well, quick follow up, Billy did McDonald actually say, hey, that was off the record or is this like the Seahawks messaging? Because I don't know that as of this recording, McDonald, I might have missed it. I don't know if you, I'm sure he'll be asked about it this week, but I don't know that he's actually come out with that as his defense yet. I saw a question when they ask him, why do you do these podcasts? Like, what is there to gain from it essentially? Like, what was the point of that? I think this is just PR spin of, hey, we didn't mean to get that out there. You know, they're trying to cover Mike so that I know he doesn't look like a bad guy because people like him, he's a super bowl champion, it's like, let's not make him out to be like a bully or like this tough guy that's kind of picking on Old Man, Sean Payton there. You know, so it's like, we're just going to say it was off the record and we'll deal with the blowback from Graham Bessinger and maybe we'll never be on his podcast again, you know. Tom, I got to think that people around the league that this is the juicy gossipy type story that people love talking about. I would imagine as you're making your calls this week. Honestly, no one is, no one has said a word about it. Really? Interesting. And I think that's because everybody, and as I've had a mostly good relationship with Sean Payton for a long time, everyone's been on the business end of Sean not being happy with you at some point. Like, if anybody's going to threaten to go nuclear, it's Sean. And then the next time you see him, everything can be absolutely fine. The other aspect of this is, I guarantee you, all 32 teams do this. The way the rules work in the NFL is if you have a practice that is open and you're not charging for tickets, right, which is what most teams do in part because of this, teams can't send somebody in to record something themselves. If you charge tickets, you know, teams have like their Saturday night, Friday night practice, whatever. Preseason games, teams, other teams can buy a ticket and go in and take notes and do whatever. But all those other practices, you're solely relying on what comes out in media reports, what do the fans in the stands do? The media all have a list of rules about what you're allowed to do and you have to sign it to get your credential and, you know, there's certain periods that are on and off shooting. But the fans, it's like, you're just putting stuff out there. I mean, I remember a story years ago that there was a specific trick play that ended up online and it went viral and the coach was told, hey, just see, don't coach, it's on Twitter. And the coach lost his mind and then it's like, wait, what's Twitter? Like they don't know. But that's why you see teams mostly shutting it down because that's something that teams can glean. Now, how much are you getting from an August training camp practice when you're playing a team like the Seahawks and Broncos do this year? I think in week six, I don't know. But there's a lot of teams that have specific rules about, there are some teams that if you have your phone even out of your pocket, they will throw you off the practice field as a reporter. And there are teams that will tell the fans, you cannot shoot anything, but it's mixed. You know, sometimes you have security that's actively going up there. teams are very relaxed. about it. It's a real thing, but this is not like unique to the Seahawks. I'm sure, you know, Sean probably implied because Mike was missing it at one point that he was somehow attached to things. It's, it's commonplace. It really is in the NFL. I love this story. I love coach rivalries. I love that they play each other in week six. I, in my heart, I'm like, man, I wish they would have played in the Super Bowl last year. That would have been such a fair, such an interesting handshake there at the end of the game. But yeah, just to echo what Tom said, just, you know, I went to some Eagles training camp practices this week and ones I've been to in the past. It's like in the beginning of practice, everyone's allowed to use their phone, record what you want. They're doing drills. They're doing warmups. Once it gets to when it's like team periods where they're actually running plays, they will generally tell you and, you know, very like, you know, like you better not be recording anything, like get that phone in your pocket or you're out of here. And they say the same thing to the fans. Now, every team's training camp is set up differently. Like the ones at the Eagles. It's a small number of fans on the sideline. If you go to a stadium practice, obviously, you're not going to be able to regulate that kind of thing. But yeah, I think the Dolphids even said earlier this year in the summer. They were making a point about how, you know, I, I forget it might have been Kevin Petulo or something told Jeff Halfley who told someone else that, hey, we knew some of your blitz schemes because we were just looking online and people were recording them in the summer. So the bottom line is the Seahawks didn't do anything wrong here. Sean Peyton, I am curious how he found out about this. That, that was interesting to me, that aspect of it. And I am a little concerned that teams are going to get even stricter about who they allow, you know, because it is awesome for fans to get to go to these training camp practices. And now I feel like there's going to be even more rules in place, more regulations and maybe they'll shut them off. So I hope that doesn't happen. But Billy, your point at the beginning might be the most interesting one, a little journalism discussion. Was this on the record? Was this off the record? Was this was this fair game? You know, I tell my family all the time, unless you say off the record, anything you do in this house, I can use for content, you know, if I'm having a slow podcast and I need to just have an anecdote there. They know my daughter lit it, but I was telling them this story this morning. He's like, unless you say off the record before, it's assuming that it's on the record. I'm like, thank you. That's how journalism works. Now, at the same time, they're cut the angle of the shot. It's like, was it clear? It should have been clear to Mike McDonald when you start recording the interview. And I don't know that it was. Now, still, if he didn't say off the record, he should be more careful. He's been in the public eye for a long time. Now he was getting a little loose. He was getting a little comfortable there. But yeah, I don't know kind of what to make of that whole whole situation, Tom. What do you think from kind of a journalism perspective, someone who's done these interviews before? I do like the Mike, his kind of, you know, he's got, he's such a terminator as a personality. I kind of like that he's now. And then whether it's, he's a slipping up, it might also be, I just won the Super Bowl in my second season. And I can kind of do what I want at this point myself a little bit. Yeah. He made the comment at the celebrity golf tournament back in July about somebody with a conflict of interest gave him information on the Patriots before the Super Bowl like he's, he's dropped a few little things in there, which is kind of out of character form. So I do enjoy that part. Here's what I would say for anybody who is interested in journalism or anybody who ever sits for an interview talks to a reporter. There is no such thing as off the record. Off the record is a constructive trust between the people in the room. I can say to you, Hey, this is off the record. You can still use it. I may never talk to you again, but it's not like those words disappear. You, you have to assume at all times you're on the record. If you trust someone, the things you're talking about are always going to be off the record. Again, it's based on trust, but there's not like a rule, Graham Benson, or whatever his name is, isn't like going to go to jail. If he used something and Mike didn't know, if you got a microphone up your shirt, it's a good signal at that moment that you're probably not off the record. And whether Mike did or did not actually feel bad that that got out there will probably drive whether they do business with that particular interviewer again. We also saw in hard knocks this year, like Mike McDonald can hold a grudge. Like he showed a note card that he had from when Rex Ryan in 2022, I think when he was a DC of Baltimore called him terrible and he keeps that as motivation. So like Mike is here to hold these grudges and air them out now. I guess now that he's had the success. And the other thing we saw Billy and hard knocks is the man is in the weight room. You know, he said he went for a jog. I don't know if that's confirmed or not. I would think he was probably in the hotel gym getting a pump in and the way he was telling the story. He was like, you know, pardon me. It was like Sean Payne saw me in that Schmedium t-shirt and was like, I'm not saying anything to you in person. I'll call John Schneider if I have an issue over the phone. But yeah, I don't want any smoke right now. So I thought that part of it was also fun for Mike but Donald. That's why you get all those reps in for situations where you might meet Sean Payne and the elevator at the Indie Marriott and something might go down. I was thinking while this segment was going on, I came up with a new segment if you guys are interested in playing this. Just a mini sub segment, a sub segment if you will during this segment. It's called on the record. So you guys both have reported on things. You guys, you know, have had off the record conversations. Obviously, I'm wondering if in this segment called on the record. We share some of those off the record happenings, but we redact who it is that it happened with. So it's still technically off the record. We don't know. But like, what's one of the more juicy off the record things that happened, but don't tell us who it was. Any interest? I don't know, Billy. We might have to revisit that one next week. We need to think about this one. She was going to tell us like who is daughter's crushes are in school or something. Tom's version of this would be much more interesting than my version of this thing. But yeah, let's let's chew on that. We'll hit the group chat this week. Maybe next Wednesday. We come back and work on this. She was going to be like an unnamed member of the Cappadiah family is really crushing on Jimmy and fourth grade. We'll tell you who it was though. All right. Not if they set off the record before though. They do do that sometimes. They'll say I'll give you one real quick one. Oh, okay. No, it's a blatant on the record one. I one time, I won't do it out the person because I think they were just a little bit naive to how this worked. And you are based on all like the guidelines that you're given. It's like if you're dealing with people who are unfamiliar, like if you're doing man on the street type stuff, you're talking to a child, you're talking to somebody who maybe have mental problems, right? You're supposed to. There's kind of a code of like, you need to treat those differently. But this was somebody who was the head of a company that was doing business with the NFL. I talked to them in a press box before a game holding a recorder like this for like a half hour. Walk to my seat, wrote a story, posted it. That person walked up to me and goes, that was all off the record. I'm like, I don't know what you think off the record is. But me asking you questions, telling you, I'm writing a story and holding the recorder in your face should have been clues. I was going to use the things that came out of your mouth. I left the story. I was just like, sorry, like I feel bad that you feel bad. But like, what is he thought was happening here? That's my that's my one. Yeah. Sometimes it's a credit to the reporter like that. That person thought, Oh, Tom's a nice guy. Tom's a friendly guy. We're just having a chat. You know, that type of thing. He's like, Hey, I'm writing a, I'm writing a story on your product being used in the NFL game. Yeah. Give me the quotes about the product. And then I wrote it. And there was like a little side, like a party, like joke about Roger Gidell. It was like not harmful in any way. But that was in there. I think that's what maybe got a phone call or they didn't like it again. Hold the mic in your face. Yeah. No ambiguity whatsoever on this. Shamwaga should have known better. All right. We'll go through these quick because I went longer than I thought. Let's see, quick lightning rounds of around the iron. Elboro was miced up during this thing. This is where it gets a little tricky off the grid iron on the grid iron. Because this was on the grid iron, but it was technically off the grid iron. He was miced up after taking a hit from the Neil Hunter. He was con the sidelines telling Jamar chase. You know, I think that knocked my injured rib back into place. Like it hurt initially. But now I'm feeling really good. And I'm not feeling that pain anymore. So it's like, Okay, like that's just like a funny aside. He knows that he's miced up. He'll just say something because guys do that sometimes to kind of play up to the cameras. But after the game, he goes up to the Neil Hunter and he goes up to Will Anderson shakes their hands after the game. He goes, Hey, when you guys hit me, you knocked my rib back into place. Like I feel good now. How do we feel about this? Like, do we think Joeboro actually believes that he was cured with a hit? Like sometimes I don't have any of your shoulder. It's dislocated. Then they just snap it back into place. You feel good. Do we think Joe believes that his rib was knocked back into place? Do you guys believe that his rib was knocked back into place? And do we think now? Okay, he's good. He's healed. No issues with Joeboro. 100% he believes it. Yes. And I think that it's as much. I mean, he's he's not looking at an X-ray. He's just feeling it in the game. Something feels weird. The natural gets hated. It feels normal again. I'm not a doctor. I don't have an intimate knowledge of ribs. I do know they can get this place. They can get bruised and different things. I've never heard of somebody taking a shot back in. Like we, everybody's seen at some point like the player who dislocates their shoulder. And then they just go and fall on it, right? Just like drive it into the ground and pops it back into place. So theoretically, I guess you can do that with a rib, but that's a new one for me, Shield. Yeah, we need an official medical expert for the Ringer NFL show because like Tom said, for shoulder, yeah, I could buy it. for finger, you know, you see them on the sidelines. Sometimes you're a fan. We're going to pop that back in there. I don't think I've ever heard that for rib. Like, just have, your rib is injured and just have two of the most fierce past rushers in the NFL really give you a shot. Normally, I would think that would make it worse or it would hurt you more, but he was convinced of it. Now, I do wonder, Billy, you know, we're doing a little journalism. We're doing a little meeting talk on this episode. I mean, he knows he's miked up there, right for the entire game. It wasn't like he was a secondary character who got caught. He knows he's miked up. He's talking about it to multiple people. Was that sort of, you know, brand type thing that, you know, the tough guy had an injured rib. No big deal. These guys hit me and now it feels even better. I'm Joe Burrow and we're two and out maybe. I thought it was a joke when he was selling Jamar. And then when he after the game went and was telling the other team, I was like, I guess he really believes this. I've never heard of a situation where your rib goes out of place and you knock it back into place. I guess players are weird. I feel like camps, cataboos, a type of guy that like gets a concussion and he decides, let me headbutt a wall to un-concuss myself. So like, that's unconfirmed. That's not a report. That's not awful. That's just some people are saying that. Not I wouldn't say that. Tom didn't say that either. She'll maybe would say that unless you tell him it's off the record. So we believe any of that or no. I guess we believe it. Why don't go on to the next one? Okay, let's move on. All right. The next around the gridiron, Devante Adams appeared on his sister's show up in Adams this week and something caught the eye of viewers when he was there on the couch. It was a giant, what seemed to be Taco Bell behind him. So people were saying, is this like product placement? Is he doing this interview outside of a Taco Bell? What's going on here? So I did a little digging and I saw a MTV crib style video of Devante where he walks around and proudly shows off one a golf card in the middle of his living room for some reason, which I assume he takes out to a functioning Taco Bell has been installed inside the living room of his house. So not only does he have a functioning Taco Bell inside his living room, which then he put behind him in interviews, he told us that he has a purple card and the purple card if you're wondering what that is is a card in which he can take to any Taco Bell and he can get whatever it is that he wants, whatever the price, whatever he wants to use it. There are two reported such purple cards out in circulation right now. Devante Adams has one and the other one belongs to Kevin Hart. So would you guys be interested in a purple card? If not a purple card, what brand or restaurant would you like that card for and then side question? Would you ever want a restaurant installed inside your living quarters? I have a lot of questions here, Bill. First of all, unless they're sponsoring the Kapati power rankings, I wonder if we should have kept them anonymous. I don't like the free ads here. We're giving them, but that's okay. It was part of the media. We can deal with it. Maybe it'll lead to something down the road with one of these companies. But when you say functioning Taco Bell inside his house, what does that mean? It has all the ingredients. There's someone working there that'll just make him be a Mexican pizza. If he wants to, in the middle of the day, I don't understand how this actually works. Listen, I will fully admit that I have not just shown up at his house at a random time to see if it's operating. When he's showing off the house in the video, there's the menus there, the windows open, and there is Taco Bell on a tray, which I don't know why he'd need a tray. But he has to talk about trays. He has the things all wrapped up. So it seems as though at the very least, it's operable. And he could get some sort of Taco Bell at some time if he has the right person working the Taco Bell window at his house. Okay. I mean, listen, in my 20s, the purple card would have been nice. I think that's a little bit of a young man's game where now, you know, you get over 40 and you're not going to be really taking full advantage of that purple card. So I would have to give some thought about it. There's another one I would actually like. But you know what? Good for him, I guess. I didn't know anything about the purple card. Tom, have you done reporting on this? Is this what people are talking? They're not talking about the McDonald Payton thing, but maybe they're talking about this when you make your calls this way. I'm just unclear on if we really believe there's a Taco Bell in the house. It's there because right. But for instance, I, there was a Taco Bell kind of in my high school. They had the Taco Bell sign and there'd be somebody working there. But the only thing you could get was soft tacos. And they weren't like the full on Taco Bell soft tacos. It was kind of like half-assed, but that was the only thing you could get. If we're talking about like you could order gorditas and chalupas and those cinnamon twist things, like you would need a team back there. So is it just a Taco Bell sign and then like he can heat it up in the microwave and like make a burrito every now and then or is it actually there's somebody working the Taco Bell? That is the important thing here. I mean, I wonder kind of like is he then technically the manager of that Taco Bell? You know what I mean? And then does he have employees that he has to send out like the weekly schedule for? And it's like, hey, you know what, I'm going to be out of town Thursday through Friday Taco Bell will be closed. But the days that I'm there, we're going to have our shifts starting at 8 a.m. whatever time it is that he sets the schedule. And the two people have to rotate and he sends out the weekly schedule just in case he wants something, you know, they're there to help him. I would think the only other celebrity. And I'm sure this is like not that crazy because celebrities are weirder for going to be honest. Tyrese Gibson of the Fast and Furious franchise you're familiar with Tyrese Gibson shield Tom. Sure. Yeah. Tyrese, I believe unless he's moved, had a functioning Benny Hanna in his yard. And you could go to Tyrese's house and Andy Sandberg famously like would talk about it. And then he got invited over to Tyrese's house and he put out videos of him and Aziz Ansari and some other, you know, notable celebrities going to Tyrese's house because they got the invite he found out they were interested. And you could find these videos of them at the Benny Hanna in Tyrese's yard. And then they do like the whole, you know, like onion thing where it shoots up the fire all the way. I'm going to send you guys these videos. And if we can, I don't know how clearance works here. But if we get the videos of this functioning Taco Bell and the Benny Hanna and Tyrese's yard, you guys will be blown away. So you guys have no interest in any of these things. I think I would face such immense pressure if I had a Benny Hanna or a Taco Bell or any other restaurant to like only eat there because every time that I didn't, you know, my wife would say like, well, we got a Benny Hanna downstairs and you don't want to have that. Like that would be the mentality or we'd do it to the kids. Like, hey, listen, we didn't put that Taco Bell in the basement for no reason. We're even Taco Bell again tonight. I just think it's too much pressure. Well, then, you know, having for bed, one of your children comes home with like drive through Taco Bell. You're like, we have one of those. Why did you get that? Why are you going to Taco Bell? I agree. Too much, too much pressure for the bill. What you got? And then you got to host people more, you know, we want to come see the Taco Bell. We want to come see the Benny Hanna. Yeah, I don't think that would be for me. Okay. All right. Last fun fact. This was just a quick one going out. This was more on the grid iron, but it was set off the grid iron. So Chase Daniel, notable, you know, NFL, alum and member of the media pointed out, this is going to be Ben Johnson's first game as either offensive coordinator or head coach that he is calling without the number one draft pick playing quarterback, going back to Detroit. So how do we think Ben's going to look? Is this all, you know, a situation where Ben's just relying on these great quarterbacks and he's not really the genius we think he is or is he going to be just fine this Monday night against Shields Eagles? What do you think today? Is this going to be case key in them? We think Tom, I know Tyson Beijing's in the, I think, concussion protocol. It might just be hard to know at this point in the week, hard to predict what the concussion protocol usually guys miss a week, but also some guys cleared faster than others. They've got the extra day with the Monday night game. I would say this on Ben Johnson. I don't think the people were sitting there talking about Jared Gough as a great quarterback when Ben Johnson and Dan Campbell get him. I mean, the Rams literally gave up a first-round pick to get rid of Gough and his contract and bring in Matthew Stafford. Like that's, that's how Gough was thought of after the initial Super Bowl run. It was just like it wasn't, it wasn't good enough. And all of a sudden, he earns multiple massive contract extensions in Detroit. That all came with Ben Johnson calling the place, Caleb Williams. His first year, it was not great in the NFL. And even the first half last year versus the second half last year, you saw the growth under Ben, whether it's Tyson Beijing, who I know Ben Johnson loves, they eat another rare backup quarterback who got signed to an extension or your type of case, Keenam, who's played a lot of games in the league, just not in a pretty long time. I think they'll be just fine. It's obviously not the same as having Caleb. Case Keenam is not going to do the freaky type of stuff that Caleb can do. But I think the bet will have a plenty good plan against a guy in Vic Fangio, who's a, you know, pretty good coordinator in his own great. The other thing is I feel like the offensive geniuses in the NFL, they relish these opportunities. Like Kyle Shanahan last year, when he's like, I'm going to throw Mac Jones in there. And you're going to see a different guy than you've seen the past few years. And he was right. You know, Andy Reed back in the day, he would get like, Coy Dettmer in there. And they would be winning Monday night games. So I think Ben Johnson will look at this. And they had a great game plan against the Eagles last year. And the Eagles defense last year was better than the Eagles defense has looked through two weeks this year. And Ben Johnson and the Bears came to Philadelphia when that defense was playing well, gashed him on the ground. And so he has some extra time this week. He's probably embarrassed about how last week unfolded where they only put up a field goal. I think it was the worst game that Ben Johnson has co-struck. coordinated offensively since he got that position with the lions and then with the bears. So I would expect their offense to be more competitive than maybe we look at just on the surface regardless of whether it's Beijing or case Kingdom or I guess the outside chance of Caleb Williams. That's it. We did it guys. We went around the gridiron. Yeah. How did that turn out? Billy's gridiron, Guillermo's gridiron. Right. Coming in. We're gonna get this thing right eventually. We three kicking off Thursday night, Packers Falcons. I got a couple of reasons this game is more interesting than you might think right for this. So Thursday night, the Falcons who have not started their, the guy who won the quarterback job in camp also did not have the number two guy started their number three Cooper rush are now going to the guy who because of health didn't beat out the other guy who's still not healthy enough. Michael Pettig Jr. There's a Thursday night. This has been for a guy in Kevin Stefansky who you thought like it can't get weird or quarterback wise to what he had in Cleveland like we actually have the past few weeks have been unbelievably bizarre, including to a poppin is oblique on the first practice of game week. Back in week one, this is a big moment in the Falcons season shield. You have a team that is oh and two, they've looked bad, they got booted home last week. Now it's a very quick turnaround and going into Green Bayward. This is the one week where Pettig would get first team reps and you maybe have one practice to get him ready, but you're going in against the Packers team that is so gutted by injuries right now that even winning the game against the Jets, they didn't look great in that game. Break this one down for me what you see on Thursday night. Well, I think panics, you know, going into the season, I was very close to making the case that this isn't someone everyone should totally give up on. If you just look at kind of the advanced stats from last year and some of the high moments, it was like there's something there where he could potentially be a competent quarterback, but then you add it up all the injuries and I'm like, all right, I'm not going to make that case because I don't know when he's going to be on the field this year and feel to me like there's kind of an early, I don't want to say culture test in Atlanta, but you have guys like Drake London and Bajan Robinson and you see those sideline shots and you have Kyle Fett's and they're just so frustrated because they have not been able to get competent quarterback play and they feel like there's more that they can show. We see this with skill players all the time. They're like we can be part of a winning offense, a winning team and the Falcons have just looked lifeless through the first two weeks of the season. They've had some flashes on defense, but offensively it's just been a complete disaster. So yeah, I am somewhat interested. Now, to your point, I wish it was like Michael Penix had two, three weeks of practice and you felt really good about him and this scheme and it wasn't a short week here on a Thursday night, but that packers defense. I don't think it's great. I know they played better a little bit better last week against the Jets, but I think it's kind of a gettable defense where I'm curious to see can the Falcons show some signs of life? Because if they get blown out here and get embarrassed by that packers team, like, you know, I was already talking about the archmaning thing in like August. So everybody's going to be talking about, all right, what do they do now is just a tank situation. Do they trade some of these vets who are unhappy? Is it time for a full reset? All that. So I think there are some narratives kind of on the line, depending on what happens this Thursday night. I'm glad you guys were very positive about this and somewhat talked me into this because I saw this on the schedule and we're coming off of a high right where we had Bill's lines and we had 49ers rands and it's like, Oh, like, this is like, this is like the classic what Thursday night football games used to be where it's Falcons Packers and then next week it's Steelers Browns and it's like, oh, we're going to start kind of getting some of these rougher games coming up now, but you've talked to me into this. I feel like, yeah, it would be great if Michael Pentax had more time to kind of prep for this one, but we're finally going to see him and that's really like the last bit of hope. I think the Falcons have right now because even last week, you know, the fun joke of like, let's give Jack Strand a chance and there was the fans in the stands with the Jack Strand side. Cooper rushes in our guy to his injured. Let's see what this Jack Strand full hero has in him. And then we saw him's like, Oh, okay, like that's enough of Jack Strand. Thank you for coming. You've been very serviceable to this team. We'll continue to have you around, practice squad, whatever, but you're not going to be our answer here at QB. We didn't find a diamond in the rough. So, yeah, I mean, it could be fun. We could see what Michael Pentax has and we could see to your point, the Packers have been injured. It should be a fun little game when otherwise it has no business being in my future tune up. But we're going to watch it and we're going to enjoy it because you guys talk to me into this one. Listen, if the Jets didn't kind of come apart at the end of that game in the Packers Escape New York with win, this would feel like a really big game. You would still have the Packers on a losing streak. They'd be O and two coming home and it would be like, Oh my God, if they lose it, the packers and two Falcons, it's pandemonium in Green Bay, think about what the Packers are dealing with right now. They just lost their right tackles, Zach Backel-Bowellie to a torn patella tendon, so he's out for the season. Aaron Banks, who barely practiced on the camp, got hurt again. Don't know what his status is going to be for Thursday nights. So, your offensive line, which has had moving parts and never practiced together in camp is a series of moving parts now into the season. Those Josh Jacobs, when you need short yardage right now, and we'll see how that plays out in the coming weeks, but still not back for this game. The wide receivers are banged up. Jane Reed just got back from a two-day hospital stay after the game. And defensively, you don't have your closer in Mike Parsons, like that's a lot to deal with. I think that coming home, it's the short week, Hennings hasn't had a lot of reps. I still think that this sets up well for the Packers, all right, to hold serve, be able to rest up, maybe get some people back at two in one, know that Mike is going to come back week six, if not week five, and get better. But they've really been battling a bunch of different stuff to this point in the season. We'll see, you know, lowest third down percentage in the league. I think they lead the league in highest third and percentage. In other words, like the longest the teams have to go through, not doing anything on first or second down either. Like, it's bad on a lot of fronts, but bad one in one way better than bad O and two at losing to the Jets. We'll see what version of them come out when we get to Thursday night. We will be back to talk about that game set up week three in bulk on this show on Friday. We've got the Ringer 107, we'll make some picks. I think Shields got some type of segment cooking that he's going to deliver to us on Friday is what we're going to keep having some fun. So appreciate you all being here. We'll see you on Friday for Chris, our June everybody behind the scenes, Billy and Shield. I'm Tom, see 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 plus and present in DC or Wyoming gambling problem called 1 800 gambler or 1 800 my reset call 1 8 8 8 7 8 9 7 7 7 7 7 7 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800 327 50 50 for 24 seven support in Massachusetts or call 1 8 7 7 8 hope and why or text hope and why in New York for Louisiana. 1-877-770-7867.