Jason Wilson: Why Men Get Angry, Shut Down & Push Away the People They Love

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So they can truly live fulfilled lives as human beings instead of human doings. Some people might be in a relationship where maybe their girl does kind of make them feel a little bit bad because maybe they're not providing as much as they should. Men are conditioned to not want to share their emotions. What is your advice on how they get these men to open up? So it's OK to tell your relationship problems to a friend. Jason, I am so honored to have you on this podcast today. I was watching a few of your clips and it literally gave me the chills. And I just thought, wow, how incredible of an opportunity I get to sit down with you. What is something that you want anyone listening to this podcast to take away by the end of this episode? Really good question. Well, first and foremost, I'm honored to meet you. As we were sharing off camera, my nonprofit, The Union, which is serving youth now for 23 years in Detroit and your work with helping youth navigate the challenges of life has been inspiring to us. I take it as an honor to be here, man. I commend you for your work and I know the importance of what you do on the ground level. So thank you. That really means so much to me, especially coming from somebody like you who's impacted so many lives. So thank you. You're using media to where it can truly impact people where they are. So I thank you for that because I'm on the ground working and fighting. Yeah. It's it's really needed. So thank you. Yeah. As far as your question about what I would like people who are watching this to take away, I would say specifically for the men, because that's where my heart is and passion, maybe young boys or younger young adult man is for them to embrace their humanity, where more than just being strong protectors and provider, the masculine side of manhood, but I would like them to take away that they can be more than that or what I call a comprehensive man. Comprehensive man is more than just a fighter and provider. He's a lover, a leader, a nurturer, a gentleman, a friend, a son, a father and a husband. And so for a man to finally break free from the facade or being a stoic perpetually just to hide his insecurities, his fears, unresolved trauma, just allowing his past to always ruin his present is something that I've committed my life to. So I would love for that man, a younger man, maybe a boy watching now who needs affirmation and not just tough love from his dad. Maybe this conversation can help create that space for them. That's incredible. You know, when I was growing up, I always needed a role model to look up to. Right. And I grew up, you know, in Oakland, California, and there weren't a lot of people that looked like me, an Indian kid. You know, I was always searching for meaning, searching for role models. And I look around and I would see, you know, the men that you look up to are the ones that are, you know, very successful. They have a lot of money. They're the providers. They're tough. You know, back then, times have changed a little bit. But at that time, they might be like the Hugh Hefners of the world that have like, you know, they're dating different women or they accumulate material possessions. And as I got older and I started realizing that there's more to me as a man, there's a lot more complexity there, like there's an emotional side. There's a spiritual side. I was always embarrassed to actually talk about any of those things because I thought it goes against being a man. And seeing somebody like you, you know, who's so successful, a bestselling author, you know, world renowned speaker, I would say top of which the best beard I've ever seen in my life, you know, talk about these things, right, that I feel like are so important that a man needs to be in touch with all these different aspects of his life. Absolutely. I mean, you hit it right on the head, you know, when our video went viral in 2016, the work that we had been doing for over a decade was finally available to the public, meaning they saw like, wait a minute, a boy can cry without being shamed or condemned because that's what happened in the video. One of my students couldn't break a board with his non-dominant hand to pass initiation test. And what was interesting, Dar, he broke it prior the week before with no issues. But what had happened in that moment, the pressure was there. And in that moment, he him trying to be tough or hide behind this facade that he's not fearful of this moment or recognized the fear of failure prevented him from giving his all to break through that board. And so the pain stopped him every time he hit the board. And instead of condemning him, when he started crying, I got on one knee right where he was, met him in that moment and affirmed him that all men cry. Now, this is the key. Many of us may not shed tears, but we cry in different ways, whether it's abuse, addiction, high risk behaviors, depression. We're crying the way that the most high didn't create us to cry. Dr. William Frey, he was the first to discover that tears not only contain water, but also stress hormones when you cry and release from the body. And that's why you typically feel better after you cry. But what happens to the little boy when he hits his knee against a desk or something? What do we tell him immediately when he starts crying? Big boys don't cry. Then when that boy becomes a man, we say no pain, no gain. What doesn't kill you can only make you stronger. And now this boy has become a man emotionally incarcerated, unable to verbally process what he's feeling. And then society at large questions and condemns him for not being emotional, for not expressing himself. The same parent that would admonish a boy for crying from being injured is the same parent asking that teenager, which is why I love your videos. Can you please express yourself? What's going on? Why does this young boy keep going in his room right after school and not talking to me? Well, he's been conditioned from a child to not express himself. When that video went viral, our nonprofit had to shut down for two days. Oh, we got calls nonstop from men openly expressing themselves, how they wish they coached their father. Their uncle would have given them that moment to really express the pain that they was experiencing behind the tears. And to hear men from across the world crying to our female staff, wrestlers, fighters, firemen, all walks of life desiring to be free. To your point, that we're more than just strong protectors and providers. And when you work with men whom this world deems as successful and you cut the cameras off, take the suits off, put the watches down and hear this man's heart, that there's a broken boy there, then you realize that things don't really fulfill us, but purpose does. And that's my mission because I grew up, my father loved me. But, you know, he wasn't actively, actively parenting me. And as a result of that, I got into some situations where I wanted the affirmation. So I'm going where affirmation is. And that's the gangs, that's the girls who may not be best for me. And then that turned into disrespect to the first love of my life, which was my mother. And thankfully, I was able to redeem all of that. I'm thankful that God reached out to me and showed me a life beyond anger and frustration and unresolved trauma. And when you say God reached out to you, I know that you had almost a a near-death experience has had. Yes, two of those, man. Well, the first friend of mine, he was actually an NBA star. He had just actually got drafted. This is not Chris Webber, is it? Yeah, it is Chris Webber. I try not to say his name sometimes, but it's public knowledge now. But yeah, Chris Webber and I were really close in the early 90s when he was at Michigan. And right before he got drafted, I believe, or after, my memory may be a little off, but he was supposed to come with me to the studio because we were recording an album that actually released in 1998. But this time he says, no, you can go and get the beats and bring them back. So I found that strange, but I didn't question him. So I just got in the truck and drove to the studio. He didn't drive that day because his mother told him don't get into the truck because don't drive the truck because someone has to get in an accident. But that someone was me. On the way back from the studio, a car in front of me stalled and it was, it was dusk and it was like right before, it was dark, but people that he didn't have his hazards on. So I'm looking like, is this car moving or not? And by the time I realized that this car had stalled, it was too late. And Chris had a 4Runner. It was real, it was narrow or top heavy at the time before they brought in the bass. So when I swerved to miss the car in front of me, the truck flipped over two times. He comes into ER screaming like, Jay, Jay, you got to get your life together. I'm like, my man, I'm okay. They just have me on this gurney for precautionary reasons. He says, no, my mother told me you were going to get in an accident. I says, what do you mean? You're called, man. Quit running from God. I asked Mrs. Weber. She says it was true. Do you know I still didn't listen, man? Because I wanted my own life. I wanted to produce music. I said, this is the way I can make an impact in this world. Fast forward, I worked at Coca-Cola and maybe like six years later, unloading a truck, a pallet, like I would do every night. Prior to getting on my high loader, I'm arguing with my wife because I'm working 12 hour days, miserable, unable to produce music, unable to fulfill my dream. And in that moment, I said, God wasn't real. Or more specifically, Yeshua or who the world calls Jesus isn't real. And my wife says, don't say that. You know, everything will be okay. I says, if he's real, why am I wasting away here? And hung the phone up. Get on my high load. Go to unload this truck. The driver didn't chalk the brakes. And the weight of the high load pushed the bed of the truck away from me. I dropped with this high load. Two herniated discs to this day that I felt this morning. The impact threw me off the high load and I look up to the sky, eyes watering, tears eventually coming out. And I said, I'll never go against you again. That day, it was a 180 transformation. I didn't go back. Interesting. I still ponder that today that my reasoning and the impact or the method I would need or the plan was to use music. And all the most I ever needed was for me to surrender my heart to him so that he could use me. And now I'm sitting in front of men like yourself able to share this message with millions of people that life is bigger than we could ever imagine once we surrender ourselves to the most high and not in a religious way but in a way where it's relational. The world is sick of religion. They want something relational and real. And I can testify that he's been truly faithful to me in such a real way that the news could come out and say the Bible is real, isn't real, crisis, a fraud, he never existed. All of that could come across the media. It wouldn't affect me at all because I have a relationship and I've seen him move in such a way that the trauma, the pain now has a purpose. I coach football. Now Coach Hank saves up to 25% off grocery store prices. He knows teamwork and BJ's knows savings. Home of the Save. Open soon. Limited time offer, new members only. BJ's Home of the Save. Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have eczema. So I get how it can steal your time. But why let eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about EBCLIS? EBCLIS, Lubricizumab LBKZ, a 250 milligram per 2 milliliter injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema. Also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. EBCLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you are allergic to EBCLIS. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EBCLIS. Before starting EBCLIS, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Paid partnership with Lilly. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about EBCLIS and visit EBCLIS.com or call 1-800-LILLY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. You know, what's so fascinating about that is during the time your greatest struggle, you found your greatest strength, right? And I think somebody in that situation could easily take the opposite approach. They could say, I was on this high-low and I was questioning the existence of God, which is an amazing story, by the way, that you were having this conversation literally right before that happened. It's unbelievable, God's existence. But when you had fallen, you could have easily had taken that experience and say, see, God made me fall, right? But instead, you saw that experience as God saved me, right? One of the things I love to transition to is, you know, there's obviously lots of women that are also listening to this podcast, whether they're on a walk, on a run, whether they're driving in their car, or whether they're, you know, watching this on YouTube and they might have a son in their life or a husband or a boyfriend. You talked earlier about, you know, men are conditioned to not want to share their emotions, right? To not want to talk about these types of things. Well, I've learned through my wife that they need the same grace that we do to really understand what manhood is. So, if you think you understand manhood and you were born and raised in this country, you don't. The concept is, I compare it to having two crayon boxes. When I was younger, you know, we would get the standard eight box of crayons and then if you were the man, you had the 64 colors, the 64 box of crayons. That communication gap is real and I use that as an analogy between men and women. As men, we only use maybe two or three of the crayons out of our box and women use all 64. Now, God gave us all emotions, all the colors to express ourselves, the palette of life, but we choose these three, being strong, provider, and maybe a leader. Actually, let's change those. Those are characteristics. Let's go to anger. Most men, that's our default emotion. If we're sad, we're angry. We're depressed, we're angry. We're frustrated, we're angry. We're rejected, we're angry. We're embarrassed, we're angry. And we complain, what, man, it's hard to communicate with my woman or my wife. Well, my brother, you only have green, but she's speaking lime. So now you got to fight to put green and yellow together to create that color instead of being more expressive. And again, that goes back to history in this country as men being conducive to only so many emotions, only allowed, I would say, to express those without being condemned or being called pusillanimous or lacking courage. When men learn how to be more expressive, we can connect the dots or connect the communication where we can actually have a great relationship. To your point about what could a woman do to help her man open up more, my wife showed me that it's the main thing that a woman could do. It's not that you can make a man open up, it's that when he starts opening up, you don't impassively dismiss his emotions. A lot of times and my wife felt that this miserably the first time I opened up. Right. It's a shock to them. Like, why are you being so emotional? Yeah, see, and as men, we get mad, you know, on Father's Day, we don't want anything. Birthday, oh, I'm good, you don't have to get me anything. Right. When you constantly wear a Superman cape, why do you get mad when they always treat you like Superman? Always asking you to do superhero things. You don't need to rest, Dad, you're Superman. Babe, can you run and fix this? Can you do this? Why do you think a lot of men wake up from their naps when their wife or children come home? Because they don't want to be perceived as being lazy. When a woman allows a man to be human or expressive without shutting him down, now she gets, finally gets into the world where truthfully, the nurturer in her can help heal the broken boy that he's been hoarding for almost his entire life. And as men, every man know watching this that we don't want anyone to see that part of ourselves because when he did come out, he was either embarrassed or bullied or dismissed. So my wife, her advice to women is don't interrupt the process. When he speaks, listen. Don't try to fix the problem. I often, in my book, The Man the Moment Demands, I share to wives, don't change change the weather. So if it's raining, don't tell your husband been that it's sunshine or sunny outside. Because as men, we don't mind embracing the problem because we like challenges. We love figuring things out. But one thing we don't like is to be pacified. Like, no, it's raining. I failed at work today. Let me acknowledge this so that I can improve. That's why I often say to the boys that I train, mistakes are great teachers. The only bad mistake is the one you didn't learn from. And so when my wife got past the shock of seeing me cry or me being verbally expressive without yelling, our relationship flourished. And now I can open up. I've told her a few times when I'm nervous or scared, I would never do that before. But it's so liberating to know that I no longer have to live a performance-based life. I can exist for who I am and not what I do. And unfortunately, more men are human doings instead of human beings. I had an argument with my wife one time. I felt guilty that I was not spending enough time with my children. She was like, you'd hardly even spend any time with me. And so my fact-based brain immediately goes into, I took you to the movies last Tuesday. I took you to dinner last Saturday. We went on a vacation to Cabo three weeks ago. I started explaining all these things, but I totally lost sight that I was putting facts over feelings. If she truly, felt that way, then obviously she was feeling neglect in that moment. And then she looks at me and she goes, Dar, like, because my daughters would come up to me all the time. They'd be like, daddy, play with me, play with me. And I'd always feel so guilty saying no. And she's like, how come you can't see me like our daughters when I expressed to you that I want more time with you? And so in a similar way as to what, how you keep a photo of that younger broken version of your significant other or whoever it is to remind ourselves of the vulnerabilities, right? That the other person has faced. I thought that moment was a kind of a tool for me to remember the next time we're in some sort of a conversation and Laura is expressing some sort of a need to me. I remember where it's stemming from. And similarly, so she can also understand me. And I didn't actually realize this until therapy as well, because my attachment style is abandonment. And so her attachment style is anxious. And so you can imagine when she needs reassurance and I need space, how those two things can conflict, right? Well, you, me, you and your wife and Nicole need to get dinner one day. We call it, the girls would get along real well. Oh, real easy. No, maybe we should keep them away. No, just kidding. I'm just joking. It's so important to understand that inner child and what our needs are, because that really explains how we respond to the way that our relationship interaction works. Absolutely. Especially, you know, now just being professionals, we wanting, you know, everything perfect. And as I was sharing with you, can't attain being perfect or perfection rather. And I created the phrase or term, uh, excellentist and me trying to be perfect became, came from me never being able to please my father. It was just never enough. The little things I would do wrong became big things to him. And so before I knew that, I was like, no, I was just performing at a young age, just trying to find a space where little Jason was acceptable, where he didn't have to hear anything negative. And that followed me into adulthood to where I would think crossing the T 20 times, right. I mean, I had it right. Or dotting the I 40 times was good. And it wasn't, it was rooted in me never having the affirmation I needed that I always had to make sure that was right. Or my father would yell at me or, uh, in friendship, fearing I would lose another friend to, or a brother to homicide. It prevented me from getting closer to, you know, men who wanted to be brothers to me in, in, uh, my community because of the pain of losing someone. As long as we continue to let like trauma time travel, it would always ruin where we are. You know, it will ruin the blessing of the moment, but if we keep it where it belongs in the past and allow ourselves time needed to resolve it, not completely, but in a way where it doesn't negatively impact us, I find myself able to truly be in the heart of every situation. And we talked earlier about the hard times or adversity shaping us. And that adversity helps me understand truly what peace is. What many men want is peace. If you have a room of a hundred men say, what do you desire the most? Right? Almost all of them would say peace. Unfortunately, the illusion that we have of it is not to me, the true definition of peace. Peace to me is not the absence of chaos, adversity and trials. It's being in the midst of those things and being calm at heart or remaining calm at heart. All you knew at the time, your brain wasn't fully developed. You didn't know how to process. You only knew how to interpret things. So mom and dad yelling could mean they don't love me. They're going to get divorced. You know, there's so much uncertainty here. I don't feel safe. And you learned to flee that. Grown man, Dar, I'm not saying this is you, but it could look like, got to make sure everything's together. This bowl is not centered with this table. Why is that not the case? That's me. That's my eye, you know, or I have a project I want to release and all my friends watching this, they'll tell you, I want it excellent. And I strive for it because my faith, you know, everything we do, we do unto God. Right. But how much of that, my effort in doing that is performing or is it little Jason still hearing his father say after you dropped the game winning touchdown, Hey, I heard you dropped the game winning pass instead of saying good effort. I know that hurts son. Right. Let's get some ice cream and talk about it. That followed me into adulthood. And the same thing with you and every man watching this, and to be aware of conscious of that. And every decision we make, even right now, I tell my manager or even my literary agent, like, look, I don't want to be in front of cameras. So, I'm going to need you to push me in that area because I know it comes from the embarrassment of my father who was a barber cursing me out in a barbershop for making a small mistake. So when you get before cameras, you think, wow, if I make a mistake, it's really magnified now. And that's a little Jason fearing that happening again. So I allow him to come forth, calm my nervous system saying, no, that happened. That's over it. And it won't happen now. 85% of the things we worry about never happened. 15% that do we can handle. And I just move forward. Right. And that's the importance of when you know your strengths and your weaknesses. I mean, I know my weaknesses, but play to my strengths. And that's how I'm able to navigate through adversity, even my own internal struggles. I give myself the freedom to feel so that I can truly be the man that every moment needs. I coach football. Now Coach Hank saves up to 25% off grocery store prices, 30 pounds of pasta, three cases of protein bars, 75 sports drinks. This is your home coach, home of the save. Join for just $20 at bjs.com/mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months. Open soon. BJ's, home of the save. Kelly Rowland, you may not know this, but I have eczema, so I get how it can steal your time. But why let eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about EBCLSS? EBCLSS, Lubricizumab LBKZ, a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema. EBCLSS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you are allergic to EBCLSS. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EBCLSS. Before starting EBCLSS, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about EBCLSS and visit EBCLSS.com or call 1-800-LILLY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. Real value shows up in reliability you don't have to second guess. Like a set of Firestone all-season tires. They're designed to deliver confidence-inspiring wet weather traction and a quieter ride, no matter the road, season after season. Firestone all-season tires. For durability you can count on. Just like people count on you. Firestone. Always dependable. Since 1900. That's beautiful. And speaking of the bull, I think it looks centered on camera, by the way. I don't know if it's. It's okay. Leave it. Leave it. So now I'm messing. See, this is perfect. This is a perfect example of dark. No, it's great. But no, I'm like you. I'm just like you, brother. I know. It's great. So now this is perspective. Yeah. From our angle, if you look at that bull from your angle, it's not centered. How many of us look at life with a skewed perspective? My father, I told every boy who I work with, they say, well, and they cry and just angry because their dad wasn't there. And I would say, do you think I would be here with you now on a beautiful Saturday training you in this hot gym if my father was in my home and in my life actively? And they'd look at me and they were like, probably not. It worked out for the good. It's the perspective. That's actually the spirit of the podcast and the reason that those little balls are broken and they have the lining in them is it's inspired by the Japanese art form kintsugi, that when you actually break something and then you put it back together, it's actually stronger and more beautiful than its original form. So if you look around, there's all these little objects that are inspired by that whole art form. And it's, you know, all very consistent with the story that we're telling that, you know, pain is what builds purpose and struggle is what builds strength. Earlier, you were mentioning about, I know where you're starting to go, about how we're all sort of defined. Right. Or we see the role that we play in life in terms of our responsibilities, our accomplishments. You know, there's this saying that if you were to be dropped in a field, right, with nothing, you didn't even have clothes on your back. You didn't have your car. You didn't have your house. You didn't have any of your professional accomplishments. Somebody asks you a question as to why does your life matter? Or, you know, what is special about you? What would you say? That's such an interesting question. It's similar to the Cave of Adullam where I work with boys through martial arts and emotional stability training. I've passed that now to my assistant because of my back. My body is like, it's time to age off the mats. And someone said to me, that's your life's work. I said, really? I'm not dead yet. How do you, how can you say that's my life's work? I could do something in the next year or two that could definitely impact more lives than that. Do I refuse to be defined by anything? Um, no one defines my success nor my existence except, you know, the one God that I serve. What I would tell anyone is that it's with anything, man. As soon as you allow a title, a career, an effort, an initiative, a movement to be your definition, now you're locked into that. So once you're not able to continue that on, like many older men, when they can no longer provide, as strong as they used to be, they feel they have no purpose. One of my desires eventually is to be a grandfather. I'm going to need to evolve again because I've never been a grandfather before. I want to advance from moving and teaching, training, and transforming boys into mending men and helping them become whole for themselves, their families, and communities and world. How do I do that if I stay stuck to one identity of teaching, training, and transforming? I have to always be willing to evolve. This is what happens when we allow the one adjective masculinity to define us. It's an adjective. At first, I thought it was a comprehensive definition of a man. It's not. It's a few attributes such as strength, boldness, and aggression. As men, we're called to be more than that, more comprehensive, like the example of chivalry. That was a code of honor for the medieval knights. But yet now we look at it as pandering to women. Why? We've allowed culture to define us. So I rebel against any definition in this world, this horizontal existence, because it's limiting. I am anything and everything. I have to be at any given moment. Just like an MMA fighter, a traditionalist who's stuck to one style of fighting. You go into the UFC, more than likely you will lose because once you're taken to the ground, you don't know jujitsu. You don't know sambo. You don't know muay thai. When you stand up, how do you deal with the leg kick? How do you check that? All you know are katas and form. You don't know how to do it. You don't know how to perform. So you have to learn everything to be able to meet the moment, whatever comes at you. As soon as you're comfortable and locked in, this is my style. I'm a businessman or whatever. I'm an architect or a trainer of boys, emotional stability coach. No, I'm more than that. I can be that. I'm also an author. I'm a husband. I'm a father. I'm a son. I'm a great friend, a companion. I'm a teacher. I'm a mentor. So just what would your. Practical advice be because I totally hear what you're saying and I can really appreciate that from where I am right now. But I'm just thinking about younger Dar and some people might be in a relationship where maybe their girl does kind of make them feel a little bit bad or look a little bit down upon them because maybe they're not providing as much as they should, especially in today's culture. What is that song that exists right now? If you love me, you better buy me Chanel. Right? We live in this hip hop. We live in this culture. I agree with you. But it still goes back to the principle. And I know this is hard in a society that wants seven steps to success and five steps to being a millionaire. I get it. But again, I'm a principled man. And when you understand principle, you get a foundation. You lay the foundation and you build upon that. You don't build upon something that's already cracked and fractured. That mentality, that thought process is fractured. You will never find peace. You will only find performance. So if I'm in a relationship and a woman looks down on me because I can't do that, the issue isn't me. It's the relationship. So then now I have to abort or have a conversation. That's what I want to hear. Yeah. And that's the key. And I'm sorry if I didn't explain that plainly. The other part is important, but this part is important too. So certain relationships, you can't quite abort, like maybe a mother. Or marriage. I wouldn't want you to abort your marriage, yes. So then how do you have that conversation? Engage. No war is won running from it. And I get this as men, especially if you're a high performer, not performing for affirmation of love, but you're an entrepreneur, you're working a lot, you have a lot of things that you do for others and you run a business, et cetera, or in media. And you don't feel like having a deep discussion at the end of the day. The principle is why give the world your best and your family the less? Why do you let the world zap the best out of Dar or me, Jason Wilson? And you need to have a really deep conversation, considerate, transparent conversation with your wife or even your children. But we allow the cameras, everyone needing us to take precedent. I had to put my foot down on that. And that's, you know, I know that's why I'm not more, what the world would say, I won't say successful, let me get rid of that, that my platform isn't as large as it could be because I choose to be the man in my home more than who others see on the camera. Like it's more important how my wife and my children view me than anyone who ever watched this podcast. So once I keep my worth there, like a lot of people want to live a balanced life, which I talk about in that book. I say, if everything is in perfect balance, you have a pan scale. That means everything is equal priority. That's a problem because that means my business, my community service gets the same attention as my family. So I teach live an imbalanced life. That should always tip the scale. My relationship with the most high, my family, my children, my friends. This is what's important. This is important. It's just not as, as important as this. Once you live an imbalanced life, you find yourself less stressful because there is a priority now, not priorities, a priority. And that's my family. Because when I'm an old man sitting on the front porch, my book's not going to mean anything to me. As much as I love our nonprofit, the youth work that we do through the union, that won't be in my thoughts. What I want to see next to me is my wife, Nicole, and I want to make sure my children and grandkids, and children are together. When you keep that in front of you, everything else will fall right into its place. Because if all of this stops right now, your children, your wife is Lauren, she's home. Yeah, Laura. Laura. She's there. So why as men, the principle, build on the principle, the foundation, your home. Everyone wants generational wealth. There is no generational wealth without the generation. No legacy. No family. And so, yes, it's harder. Yes, you're tired. I know you had meetings all day. Put that emotion aside. That's when you gird up the masculine attributes. Be strong, determined, and disciplined. And go in the house. Spend time with your children. I know you're tired. Play. Hey, I need to have this conversation with you, bae. Are you ready for this? Can you have an introspective conversation and something heavy? How was your day? Always be considerate. Considerate to what she may be going through as well. And then approach it like a warrior. But every time we keep sweeping it under the rug, under the rug, this lump gets bigger and bigger. Right. And now it becomes a problem. I have one of my close friends, you know, speaking of everything is affected by your childhood one way or another. He was born in the United States, and then his mother decided to send him to Central America to go live with someone who he thought was his grandmother. He didn't find out later that it wasn't actually even his grandmother. His mother just wasn't ready to have children. He had nobody to talk to, you know? So now whenever he feels anything, he can't communicate that to anybody else. He just internalized it. And so he gets into arguments with his wife. He's a successful man. He's been married for quite a long time. But whenever he gets into these issues with his wife, he can't really communicate what he's feeling. He didn't even identify how that might stem from his childhood. It's something that I just kind of helped point out because of the work that I've been doing. What if somebody just doesn't even know how to communicate or has like a hard time communicating? What is your advice to how to approach resolving issues? I would first advise your friend, and I know it sounds cliche, but it's an exercise that we do with the men in our circle of looking in the mirror and talking to yourself and really expressing the abandonment, the rejection. That mother wound is, it's heavy for him to be sent across the world pretty much in another country. And then to find out where he was being sent wasn't the place where he thought it would be. See, in society, I used to think, darn, the father wound was worse than the mother wound. It's the mother wound because society paints a picture that mom should never leave us. Mom is always there. She's always encouraging. So when that doesn't happen, it affects a boy in a greater way because his mother, just like with a daughter and her father, for a boy, the mother is the first love of his life. This is the first woman he ever falls in love with. And when he is rejected or pushed away, regardless if his mother just said, I can't raise him, that pain will always come out unless he face it. But he has to learn how to, I used to say self-love. Then I realized, and this is unfortunate as men, that we can't connect with that term. So I say self-maintenance because we understand what it means to maintain something. A car, your body, whatever, a computer. He needs to get in the mirror and say, that really hurt me. Mom, why did you leave me? Why did you, was I not good enough? Like he has to get all of that out with himself first. The tears will come as long as he is alone. The tears will come. That's where I would start. That's where I started. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror because of everything I believed from my father. I'm not painting him as a bad man because he wasn't. He had his own cause and effect, but that was the best way he knew how to father me. That was this tough love mentality. And so for someone like your friend who has had insurmountable, I guess, pain, rejection, heartbreak, loneliness, fear, and now he's successful and he has the money to do pretty much whatever he wants and still can't find resolve, that's even worse. Some people can say, man, if I could just go to Hawaii, I would feel better. Your friend says, I've been everywhere, and there is no better. That's where you start in the mirror first. Then after that, I love recording myself and hearing myself back. Like, man, it's not as bad as I thought. I'm not weak for expressing how I feel. I'm getting this out of me. And then from that step, have him open a conversation with you and him. Someone he trusts. And then from there, go to his wife. So it's okay to tell your relationship problems? Do a frightened kind of a thing? A good friend like you. Someone you trust. Not anyone. Thank you for being specific. Our wives are ready to engage on that level. We have to understand as men, if we are presenting a fight, it's naturally for them to throw up their guard. Everyone does that. If I started swinging at you now, instantly you're going to bring your hands up. Yeah. I don't want my wife to raise her hands except maybe to reach out to embrace me. So I practice staying at a level where I can communicate. Calmly, directly, maybe even assertively. Not aggressively. It's a big difference. And never react, but respond. When I'm able to control my emotions in those moments and express that to a woman who loves me, like your wife and my wife, it is a blessing. Trust me. You know this if you talk to our friends or men who aren't in relationships. It is a great blessing to have a woman, your wife, say, I wish you could spend more time with me. I love what you said about the four. Or ours as well. Can you explain that? Absolutely. I created that to help us as men to process all that we've went through or even in our past or even in the present and then release it so that we can get to a constant state of rest. So the four R's is reflect, release, reset, and rest. The first R is reflect. Reflect on what is heavy on your heart right now. As soon as you wake up, maybe it's something that you didn't let go of the night before or something. If you were short with your wife earlier in the day, you don't want to release that, which is the next R. You want to retain it so that you can revisit it, which is another R, with her later and say, hey, babe, I'm sorry for being short with you and explain why. But once you've processed what you're feeling that's heavy that you need to release, you go to the next R. For me, through prayer and meditation, I sit still, deep breathing, release everything that could turn my thoughts into, I guess, toxicity or emotions that could lead me down the wrong path of thinking or even action. That's helped me a lot, too, because, you know, at night, I'll stay up and I used to have racing thoughts, right? Just feeling like, could I have done more with my day? That's really good. Should I have handled this situation a little bit better? Did I spend enough time with my kids? So first, you know, it is the reflection. Like, did I do my very best today? Okay, I can't acknowledge that I could have done something better, but I'm going to go ahead and release that, right? There's no point in me dwelling on this right now. Is that going to help make the situation any better? Is that going to give me more time with my kids? It actually might give me less time with my kids because I'm going to stay up longer. Then I'm not going to be rested. Then tomorrow, I'm going to be less patient. I'm going to have less time in my day, right? So the faster I release it, then I can reset. Right? And say, all right, I am back to zero. And then I can finally give my mind some rest. And so that way in the morning when I wake up, I'm now more energized and I could try again, right? Because we always like, just feel like whatever problem that we're going through right now is like the end of the world. And you have to fix it in that moment. But that's what tomorrow is for. As men, we tend to hold on the disappointments of the day into the evening hours. And I tell men, let it go. That's what tomorrow is for. That way you can get adequate rest. I make sure I'm in the bed by 10 p.m. every night so that I can rise refreshed at 5 a.m. Once I get past 11, I'm shot now. Now it's like, oh, I know I've compromised my next day. And in fighting, we call it let go of the blow as far as releasing. So if you and I were in a boxing match and you kept hitting me and I wouldn't let go of the blows, now I'm going to keep getting hit. Because I'm thinking about what has happened versus what's coming. It's the same principle of reflecting and releasing. Reflect, boom, I get hit. I got to release that. Learn from, I may have been in a bad position, why he was able to hit me, but I can't stay with that blow. I have to release it so that I can start striking you. We want to make the most of the next day. Release what has already happened so you can stay in the moment. And then I would like to share, too, that that concept, I'm doing it. Right now as we speak. Same. Even if I said, man, I should have said this or, man, I didn't like the way I said that. I release, reflect, release, reset so I can be at peace or at rest in this moment. And that's, to me, is the most authentic form of meditation. We call it shalak, which in Hebrew means to cast away. Yeah. If I have to sit still like this to be able to meditate, I'm in trouble. I have to be able to do it whether I'm laying down. I have to be able to do it whether I'm in a seated position, standing or fighting. And that's what's really crucial about the four R's. You can do it wherever you are. Oh, that's beautiful. And what I love is it's something that you can not only do with yourself, but it works in relationships as well. Amazing, yes. Yeah. I think we all put just so much weight on our shoulders all the time about things that we could have been doing better or where our life could be, you know, if only we had done that or had done this, right? Why aren't we further along? And, like, I promise you. As somebody who's now, you know, done a lot of the things that have kept me up at night hoping I would get to one day, I'm still here up at night wondering what my life would be if only I was at this other distant place, right? Yes, sir. It's funny how that works. So, like, it's, yeah, I love that analogy. So, you've learned so much in life. You've had so many huge milestones, right? Your wisdom is absolutely incredible. This is probably the podcast that I've gotten the most chills throughout and just, you know, in all the learnings and how much it's applied to my own life. But what is next for Jason Wilson? That's a loaded one. Well, I'm transitioning, and men could really understand where I am now. I don't want to call it a midlife crisis, but I'm at the point where I see my mortality, and it's very sobering. My son is graduating high school this year, which is a great thing. My daughter. My daughter is 30 years old. She's doing her thing. You're going to see her this week. Oh, yeah. I can't wait to see her. Love her deeply. But I'm at the place now where I don't know, man. It's like I know I have a calling to help men, mend their wounds, heal that little broken boy so they can truly live fulfilled lives as human beings instead of human doings. And I see it off in the forefront, just like Moses before he got to the Red Sea and it split for him to get across. Take some faith to run there knowing that, wait a minute, there is a barrier here. How am I going to get across? And that's where my faith kicks in. It's like, you don't see everything. I just need you to move. And so I do plan. I'm very strategic, but I always leave room for the most highest will in my life. Because if I would have, like you said earlier, if we would have done life our way, we would not be where we are today. So I'm always careful to not get in his way. So when I'm asked, what's next for you? I always say, what's next for him? Where does he have me aligned? It's the season now for me to transition from teaching, training, and transforming boys. I've discipled someone, trained him. He's ready. He has to learn from mistakes. So to you younger guys, mistakes are great teachers. Everything I've built started with mistakes. I told him recently, I'm like, Chris, I know you're nervous, but it's time to start making mistakes. I've given you all the time. I've given you almost everything I could. As I transitioned from there to working with men, it's a different space because men, we've perfected hiding pain. With a boy, I can just ask a few questions and the tears will come because he's not used to someone acknowledging him in that way. But for men who have been carrying decades of pain, rejection, abandonment, bullying, not feeling good enough, it takes more to get to that broken boy. And so I'm ready for that. And I embrace it, which I don't consider it by chance that we're here. I didn't just come for a podcast interview. I came because I respect you and what you do. And of course, I enjoy the conversation. But just to learn how to make more mistakes in a way that would be advantageous in the realm of media. Because there's men right now. Just think, man, how many men are saved just from one episode? Mm-hmm. And to. Know that we have that type of influence. Even one minute of one episode. Come on, come on, man. I've had men come up to me saying, that YouTube video you made saved my life. I'm ready to take the next step. I don't know what it looks like all the way, podcast, late night show for men. I'm open. Yeah. I see the red splee. I'm just waiting for my God to split it. That was absolutely beautiful. Jason Wilson, thank you so much for being on the podcast. It's an honor, man. And keep doing what you're doing, man. It's in the spirit of excellence. And cross the T one time, dot the I one time. As I shift this bar. Leave that bar where it is. From the camera's perspective, it's perfect. Doesn't it look perfect? It's center. We got to work on that. It's me and you, man. It's a good analogy. Yeah. Thank you, brother. I appreciate it. This was amazing, man. Tammy regularly hauls stuff to her kids at college. That's why she shops at BJ's Wholesale Club, saving up to 25% off grocery store prices. Beef jerky, microwave meals, laundry pods, even they can't screw up. Have you met my kids? And with BJ's gas, she gets there for less. They call me the road warrior. This is your home, road warrior mom. Home of the save. Join for just $20 at bjs.com slash mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months. Open soon. You get free nights every night all year long, plus a 25% bonus toward your daytime use all summer. It's a first-of-its-kind plan created for how Texans actually use energy. TXU Energy, energy for everything. Rep number 1-0-0-0-4. Cozy season is ahead, and you'll be spending way more time inside. Is your home ready? Don't worry. With Wayfair, you can upgrade your space without breaking the bank. 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