Jared & Ivanka Conquer Albanian Island

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(upbeat music) - Welcome back to Pottape, the world on Tommy Ditor. - I'm Ben Rhodes. - Ben, I'm sad to say the next loss yesterday. Donald Trump was at the game last night. Here is what it sounded like when they showed his beautiful soon to be asleep face on the jumbo-tron at MSG. Let's watch. (crowd cheering) Ben, how responsible is Danny T for the next loss? And how glad is Zoran that no one is blaming him 'cause he was also there. No one's saying he's Zoran, you jinks him. - So first of all, the best thing about that is that they clearly intentionally showed Trump during the national anthem, thinking that New Yorkers wouldn't agree with that. - Can you break, of course they will. - Do you not understand New Yorkers? Like the person running that jumbo-tron. He's 50%, or probably 60% responsible. The referees are 40% responsible. Like there's a lot of bitterness in Nick World today about the foul discrepancy that when we take down a Shaylon Brunson. But yeah, I mean, we had the most incredible karma going. We ripped off like 13 wins in a row. And then Trump has to insert himself and ruin nice things. And that's what happened. - Not great. By the way, also with the game last time was our former boss, Rahm Emanuel. I don't know if you saw him sitting on your wood. He was court side with his brother, his Larry David. It was Patriot's owner, Bob Kraft. Talked to Rahm for a bit this morning. He was like, what you don't get watching it on TV is just how violent the game is. These are the biggest people you've ever seen in your life crashing into each other at full speed. And we would just snap in half 'cause we're little babies. - I got to sit down there once up close where you can really see it. And every time Karlin, 30 towns at the ground, I didn't know how he was gonna get up again. - Yeah, these guys are so big and they're just like flying around. It's, yeah, I missed the garden now, man. I went so much when I was a kid and there's no electricity like that. Anywhere else I've been in life. - You got to be a friend like Stiller and Timothy Chalamet and see if you can get one of those seats in between them. Ben, did you notice that during TV timeouts, Larry David was reading a book. I think it was called Always Say. It's about this guy named Ben Rhodes. It's newly minted part of the New York Times when I saw a list that I think you can pick up right now. Larry David must have snagged one on the way and from the best seller list. - Yeah, we made number five, world those. And that's all because of you. So I really appreciate it. And yeah, it's right up Larry David, it's Ali, I'm sure. I have to say to Tommy, like it's wonderful to be doing these events at every event. Like a good chunk of the crowd is just world those. - Awesome. - And you get this like glimpse. I think I told you my favorite one was a guy came up to me and said he's a post, a postal carrier. And he listens to us on his route. That's awesome. - That's awesome. - That's awesome, you know? - I love that. So I love you guys coming out. I do have this ongoing never-ending tour, which is why I'm always remote. I will be tonight Wednesday in San Francisco at the Corta Madero Book Passage, which seems exciting. And a whole bunch of stuff next week too, which I'll update people on. But thanks for picking up the book. Pick up some more copies. We've got David Sederris in the sight lines at the top of that list. I'm catching up to him, but I appreciate it. - Yeah, go buy a book. Mostly Ben, buy him for your friends, buy him for your enemies. For now, we have a great show for you guys. We're going to tell you about the clashes between Iran and Israel over the weekend. There's reports Ben this morning that Iran shot down a US helicopter and Trump is pledged to respond. We can talk about that. We'll talk about that. Trump and Netanyahu are managing all of this. Well, to me, I think just quietly hating each other and getting sick of each other and wishing this couple's trip was over. Then we're going to tell you about-- - They deserve each other. - They really do. - Two men who deserve each other. - They really do and the news supreme leader. They're going to tell you about this-- we'll tell you about this controversial real estate deal that is being pursued by Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump that has led to allegations of corruption and explosive protests across Albania. We're going to tell you what to expect from the FIFA World Cup tournament. It's bigger, more expensive than ever before. We'll talk about all the ways that Trump is using the games to piss off half the world, mostly Africa, and then get PR for himself. Chinese President Xi Jinping is visiting a surprisingly economic resilient North Korea this week. I think this trip is wrapping up as we record this. We'll tell you why. We'll also talk about former Trump national security advisor, John Bolton, plea deal over his mishandling of classified information. There's a story of this unbelievable story, really, of the senior CIA officer who was caught with a bunch of gold bars in his house. We love a gold bar story here. And then there's just an amazing-- fake it till you make it story, Adam Nigeria, that I just couldn't resist playing for you at the very end. And then Ben, at the end, you're going to hear my conversation with the BBC's Will Grant. He was just back from Cuba. We talked about what life is like on the ground for the Cuban people since Trump has cut off fuel supplies to the island. We'll talk about what a soft US regime change operation might look like, what a military operation might look like, who the Cuban people blame for the situation and much, much more. So a really, really interesting conversation with Will. He's a great guy, he's to talk to Will a lot when-- When I was working on Cuba, because he's one of the journalists that I would learn more from him. You would probably learn from me. I love journalists like that. Yes, and he just got back. And I was in Mexico City. So we also talked a little bit about the World Cup and how it's playing down there because the World Cup is in three countries this time. And also Ben, just flagging for everybody that we have some amazing video clips this episode. So subscribe to Pods Aval World on YouTube. So you don't miss any of it. I'll see you help us grow the show and get good information to people. And also, if you love the show, if you love crooked media, if you want ad free episodes, if you want bonus episodes of Pods Aval World Cup, if you want bonus polling deep dives from Dan Fiverr and a lot more, consider becoming a friend of the pod subscriber. Go to crooked.com/friends, you'll learn more. It's about 10 bucks a month. And if you want to help progressive independent media, it's the single most helpful thing you can do to help us grow as an organization and continue to dominate Ben Shapiro and the Daily Wire and help me clap back at Mega McCain when she yells at me over made up vote fraud allegations in L.A. here. I saw that. You've been particularly active online. I was very poor. I was just, I was on a plane. I tweeted like eight times about the referees last night. And then I was like, what am I doing in myself? I mean, I actually think that's a much healthier use of Twitter than whatever the hell I was doing. Then Mega McCain, yeah, that was just dumb. Mega McCain calling you a pod bro and stuff. Yeah, whatever. She's like tweeting disinformation. I'm like, hey, maybe this is fake and you shouldn't spread it. You should like Google the actual facts that she gets all mad and whatever. Anyway, maybe the people of Los Angeles don't like Spencer Pratt, you know, that's not a huge shock. The Magas who, like, look, we live in L.A. Like we have a sense of what the electorate cares about here. 15% of the, of the county, I think, or the city is registered Republican. It was unlikely that he was ever going to do well when he was like closing, going on gut-filed and foxing friends with like a crazy mega message. But such is life. So Ben, it was another head spinning week in the Warneron. We just walk you through some of the timeline. So Wednesday of last week, so week from when this week before this came out, Israel and Lebanon announced a cease-fire and Lebanon. Then a day later, we learned that Hezbollah is not on board with the cease-fire deal, which is a bit of a problem since they are one of the two parties doing most of the firing. Then over the weekend, the Israeli Defense Forces or IDF said they hit about 150 Hezbollah sites in southern Lebanon. So Hezbollah fired rockets into northern Israel. The IDF then responded with strikes into southern Beirut and we are off to the races. And remember last week Trump told us that he had gotten Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu to be restrained and stop hitting targets in Beirut and then Netanyahu goes and does exactly that. So that's when the wheels like fully come off the cease-fire bus and Iran fired around 30 missiles directly to Israel. And then on Monday, the Houthi rebels even got in the game and they fired a missile at Israel and threatened to attack ships in the Red Sea affiliated with Israel. And so for a while there Sunday night, Monday morning, it felt like we were on the cusp of returning to full-scale warfare and then Netanyahu was gonna authorize some massive retaliation on Iran. But Trump seems to have called him to try to show things out and we know this because first Trump called Axios in the financial times and a bunch of other news outlets to let them know that BB was in fact his bitch and that the U.S. called all the shows. that's almost a direct quote. And so ultimately, the Israeli response was relatively restrained. They hit like a petrochemical plant, some other infrastructure, but both sides are sort of standing down for now. But man, I did think this was a remarkable and very important moment and inflection point, because it just shows again, like we can bump along the stock markets can ignore what's happening, the oil markets can fluctuate, but like the war is not close to over. And then big picture, I think this shows that Iran is not at all deterred. In fact, they're emboldened, right? And they've directly linked the fighting with Hezbollah to the conflict between the US and Israel and Iran in a way that is not gonna make Netanyahu very happy. So just, here's what you made of these events. And in particular, the Iranians deciding to just launch a massive ballistic missile barrage into Israel once again. - I think that the thruple of Netanyahu Trump and the new Supreme Leader is not exactly designed to de-escalate circumstances. 'Cause if you look at the three parties, we've talked a lot about what the deal would be. Everybody knows that the deal would be, right? Straight for blockade, for revenue, for some nuclear concessions, for more revenue for Iran. Israel does not want that deal. Even if they're kind of forced to accept that they can't keep bombing Iran, they'll escalate in Lebanon. Because Hezbollah is never gonna accept an outcome in which they totally disarm. And that's Israel's pretext to occupy Southern Lebanon and do as much damage as they can. So Israel is not exactly, you know, looking for or interested in a peace deal. Trump is trying to save face and present whatever happens as a victory, but that's just not possible because he's not meeting his objectives and the Iranians aren't capitulating at negotiating table. And so he kind of stays on the precipice of getting drawn back into things. But importantly, he doesn't want to get drawn all the way back into like the kind of full blown war that we were in earlier this spring, which the Iranians know, which brings you the Iranians, which is they don't feel like people that are desperate for a deal either. I think they want to appear, to have really bloody the nose of the United States and Israel to establish deterrence so that the United States has launched another war. They recognize how isolated Israel is internationally. And so, you know, if Israel's doing things to Lebanon, they kind of want to spotlight that by launching their own attacks. And so even though the only way the war ends is for all three parties to just kind of accept that none of them are going to achieve all their aims here, I think the leadership of the three countries, the Supreme Leader and the RGC and Iran, Trump and Netanyahu, just kind of can't seem to bring themselves to say yes. And maybe the only thing that will get them there is if the global economy really does just start imploding and it's unsustainable. - Yeah, it does seem like that would be maybe the only thing that gets everybody just to take some tough steps politically. I mean, it was a remarkable Tuesday morning we learned that Iran shot down a US Apache helicopter patrolling the street of Ramuz. There was, you know, the Pentagon, I think, told some journalists that they believe it was Iranian drone, but they weren't sure that it was on purpose, which is like, first of all, what the fuck you talk about? Of course it was on purpose. And one of those things that, you know, if that had happened during the Obama administration, we would have been accused of like the most pathetic capitulation in history, right? And then I saw just before we started recording that Trump called the Wall Street Journal and said that the helicopter incident, the incident quote, wasn't a big deal and that the pilot was fine. So this is a Apache helicopter that was shot out of the sky. The crew spent hours in the water, like in the dark. They were only rescued by some sort of like unmanned drone system that happened to find them. But all of a sudden that's no big deal. Like, look, I don't want us to resume full-scale warfare, right? Like, this is what it talks about being a Democrat and being responsible because Republicans would just rightly call that statement out for being unbelievably weak and feckless and pathetic. But that's what it is. - Well, I remember you could pick any event. Do you remember when like some US sailors got. - They veered off on water, right? - They veered off on the wrong waters and pretty briefly they were held by Ron, but then they were released. - John Kerry called them. - And we heard about that. - Yeah. - John Kerry literally called the pharmacist and then they let him go. But we heard about that incident for the rest of the Obama presidency. And like Trump and Ted Cruz were like making it part of their like stump speeches in the campaign. So there's absolutely no obviously consistency with these guys. I think like the two things to stand out from that incident are the Iranians are pretty determined. However, this war ends to kind of leave the distinct impression that they have the capacity to control that straight. So even if they reopen it, you know, the subtext is we can close it again. And so that's, you know, where they're focusing, you know, their military efforts. And pretty, you know, pretty brazen and to shoot down a US helicopter like that. - Yes, so much for Pete Hegseth telling us that, you know, that we'd take it out all their military capacity, right? But those briefings feel like a long time ago. - Oh, yeah, we destroyed their Navy and their missile. But we talked about this, but they're just so full of lies and they don't get called out. Because Iran's military capabilities, you know, clearly just fine, unfortunately. And look, the reality is that Trump doesn't want to get all the way back into this thing. Like he sees the writing on the wall with the markets. That's why he's so frantically calling Axios to talk or having Whitcoff call them or Jared to say there's a deal every, you know, Friday before the markets close. And frankly, he can pretend like he doesn't care. But I'm sure that Trump is aware of like Tucker Carlson and Megan Kelley and some of these other people that he's losing his base. He's already lost independence. And so I think he knows that if he goes all back into war, you know, he could really create or even more than he already has. And that gives Iranians a lot of leverage, frankly. - And just as we're recording this, Sencom put out a statement that they had begun some sort of self-defense strikes against Iran. We don't know exactly what it is, but they said it's in response for the downing of the Apache helicopter. So they're saying it's proportional in response to whatever Iran did, who knows. But I mean, look, they can try to be measured and try to keep it proportional, but like the cycle of violence continues, there is no ceasefire. Trump was saying earlier that there could be a deal done in two to three days. Ben, CNN counted up the number of times. Trump has said we're close to a peace deal or that Iran is desperate for a peace deal. You want to guess how many? They found. - I'm going to guess eight. - 38. - 38. - 38. - Oh my God. - 38 times. - Oh my God. - So it's going good. - I have to go back through Barak-Rovid's Twitter feed. I mean, look, we're in this kind of state of like it's semi-frozen conflict with these episodic outbursts of violence and more sustained violence and Lebanon. And that's, you know, one of these times the stock clock will be right, because the only way this thing ends is in a deal. So nobody's gonna surrender here. Or the Iranians, I mean, like they drone shots on Apache helicopter. I mean, thank God that the American pilots weren't killed, but eventually some will be and that will lead to the escalation ladder going up, yeah. - Yeah. Something like that may happen. And then that, what that does to public opinion in this country too, I think we'll be leaving more in the direction of let's get the hell out of there than in the direction of like, let's just dive back in. - Yeah. Another victim of this war, Ben, has been the English language. Here's President Trump kind of explaining the problem to us. Let's watch. - How do you put that into the fire? So how do you put it into the fire? - Pretty much the way it is. It's a different part of the world. You know, I'd say in that part of the world, see as far as when you shooting in a more moderate manner. - They put up a blockade and so we blockaded them and we have the ultimate blockade. I don't consider that a war, but if you want to define it as such, I guess you can. - Well, how do you define it? - I don't define it at all. I don't think about it. I just do what I have to do. - During your 2016 campaign, you called them at least a quagmire. What makes you so sure this won't become a quagmire? - We're not gonna be there. - You're convinced this won't become a quagmire? - It's not a quagmire. The official name is highly enriched uranium. And I call it nuclear dust because it seemed to be nice and everyone understands it better and it's so cute and people picked it up. - So Ben, I honestly laughed at Trump's definition of a ceasefire because he's kind of like, accurately capturing the absurdity of the way the term is being used. But just, you know, my advice to every reporter is like, just stop letting this man redefine words. Like, there is a dictionary definition for a reason. A ceasefire means that everyone has stopped shooting. A blockade is an act of war. The Middle East is a quagmire. It has been for the US. The US is 100% still at war, no matter what Trump says is happening right now. So it was Israel and the highly enriched uranium. It's not dust. It's uranium. It's like, we don't have to repeat. This bullshit's been. It's embarrassing for everybody. - Well, this is an original sin in the media, which is that they kind of repeated, you know, Trump says the end-of-date wars. Like, nobody pointed out that like you didn't and any of them. And some of them are ongoing. Some of them ended a long time ago, right? The ceasefires are not fragile. They don't exist, you know? So there's, there isn't absurdity to this. But it matters to your point because it kind of creates this veneer that things aren't happening, that are happening. I mean, for instance, how much does it cost the United States taxpayer to sustain this massive military blockade of Iran and all these other four deployments and all these missile defense systems you move there? Like, by acting like there's a ceasefire, you're ignoring the fact that, Nautilus R. ongoing violence. Not only is there an ongoing war, but we're spending billions and billions of dollars doing it. And so that's why it's important to be factual about this, because there's a deliberate effort by people like Trump to misinform you. Like don't look over here. There's a ceasefire. You know, they're talks. There's almost a deal. Like when none of those things are happening, the Prime Minister of Lebanon says Israel has carried out 3,500 airstrikes since April 16th, when the so-called ceasefire was agreed to. Yeah, it's not, it's not a ceasefire. It's not moderate. No, it's not even close. It's just straight up. Not a ceasefire. Just nonsense. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one website platform designed to elevate your online presence and drive your success. Squarespace gives you the tools to claim your domain, build a professional website, expand your brand, and facilitate payments all in one place. With Squarespace's collection of cutting-edge design tools, anyone can build a bespoke online presence that fits perfectly with their business. Start with Blueprint AI. 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Yen, you always get, there you go. That's a currency. You always get the best rate. Download the WISE app today or visit WISE.com Terms and Conditions Apply. All right, Bill, let's check in on America's most corrupt couple, Jared and Ivanka Trump. Here is Ivanka on one of those podcasts that I think just as like softball interviews with various business founders, let's watch. I'm working on an incredible project with my husband in the Mediterranean. It's massive and scale. An unbelievable, beautiful 1,400-hectare private island in the middle of the Mediterranean. We were on a friend's boat and we stopped for a swim. Factively, that's how we found it. We swam to the islands. We went on a hike barefoot all the way up to the top and we were just captivated. For me, this is, it feels more like a challenge than anything else. A lot of reflection on how I want to live, how I think people increasingly are wanting to live and trying to really build something that's a tangible manifestation of that. Okay, so Ivanka is talking about a little island called Sazan. It's like a colonizer dressed like a peptobizmo. It's called Sazan. It's in the Adriatic Sea. It's off the coast of Albania. The history is interesting. The Soviets had a submarine base on the island until the 1950s. It's apparently still filled with cold-war Arab bunkers and tunnels and stuff and fortifications. The island was closed off to people until 2015, until it was opened first of a limited tourism, largely because the area, the broader area, as well as protected ecological reserve at home to hundreds of bird species, in particular, flamingos and pelicans and their seals and turtles and other wildlife. Sounds beautiful. In 2024, the Albanian government suddenly and suspiciously removed those environmental protections and preliminarily approved tourism development. Everyone in Albania is trying to figure out why, which brings Jared and Ivanka into our story. Our Christopher Columbus here and Christine Columbus say they discovered this island that is, again, just in the Adriatic Sea that's been, you know, people have lived there for thousands, thousands of years. They discovered it when they were pussing around on a yacht, owned by a member of the Rothchild family, literally Ben. Jared told this story on the All-In podcast, like you just can't make this shit up. So shortly after they discovered this island and they went on their swim and their barefoot walk, Eddie Rama, the prime minister of Albania, surprisingly joined Jared and Ivanka on the Rothchild yacht, fast-forward a few years, and Jared is somehow leading this effort to develop a $1.6 billion luxury resort on this island that reportedly has up to 10,000 hotel rooms in villas. Albania's anti-corruption organization is called SPAC. They smell a rat. They're investigating. They're looking at just how this region lost the protected status. And then people in Albania are furious. There have been huge protests since last month when developers put up barbed wire offensive to keep people out of the site. And then there's a video of the security guards beating the shit out of a protester that went super viral. So Ben, here's a clip of an Albanian tour guide named Dejana KJ who's been protesting she posted this on her Instagram. This revolt revolution, it's starting in Albania, but it's going to be worldwide. We are taking our power back, power to the people. We don't need any more resorts. We need more wetlands. We need more oxygen. We need more trees. We can't afford doing that right now. Worldwide. I'm not talking as an Albanian. I'm talking as a human being that loves this world. So Ben, I love this protest movement. Obviously get why people like leaders in Albania would want more money and investment and tourism, but I think the Albanian people have every right to believe that Jared Kushner greets this deal in a corrupt way by leveraging his ties to the president of the United States. And I would demand that those details be released and to figure out who is profiting because there's just like none of the story smells right. I'm sorry, Ivanka, that your little narrative didn't go over so well, but here we are. This story exemplifies so much of what is completely fucked up about the world. First well, just think about the fact that the kinds of people that end up on boats or beach Albania are usually migrants, right? It's one of the places that people have gotten stranded. But lo and behold, there's Ivanka on the Rothschild yacht discovering this wonderful private island and then just deciding that she and her husband are going to essentially own it. Big to own it, you know. And then clearly leveraging, as we've seen time and again with Trump family interests, the power of the United States government, implicit or explicit, you know, you don't necessarily have to state the threat or something. Albania is a small country and Iran is like, oh, okay, sure, you can have this island. And here's the thing that is so fucked up about this is, yes, first and foremost, there's obviously massive environmental implications. There's like, you know, species on there that be wiped out. There's wetlands would be wiped out. But it's not as if any of the money from this development is going to reach ordinary Albanians. Give me a break. The people going to this are going to be the same kind of rich, Epstein class people that like to go to private islands at each other owns. Like maybe there'll be some some menial jobs for Albanians like cleaning up the hotel rooms. But at the end of the day, this is literally separated from the Albanian economy. It's just an island. Eddie Ram is saying that directly. He was like talking about the deal, calling it luxury tourist destination. And he was arguing that, well, Albania can make as much money from 400 yachts as we can from 40,000 like non-rich visitors, which is like a tough message when you have this like populist mob uprising opposing this progress. He's like, oh no, no, it's only going to be the worst rich elites. And people are comparing it to Epstein Island, as you said. And that's not true, right? Because if you're prioritizing that kind of tourism, it creates a lot less jobs in the kind of tourism, where people walk around cities and eat in restaurants and go in taxi cabs. And look, that woman is exactly right. Like the Albanian people are showing a lot of resilience and a lot of guts and a lot of humor in the way that they're out there protesting. But I think she's not wrong that there's such pent up frustration with the corruption and inequality and the kind of disgusting privilege of people like Ivanka and Jared. That events like this can be triggers that spread across borders. I think this is already like remaking Albanian politics in ways that Eddie Rahman never anticipated. And I think people are going to continue to mobilize when things like this happen, because there's so unbelievably offensive. And the fact that she lacks the self, she's sitting in some room that I mean, looks like a place to this like alternatively like softlet podcast or like people could be tortured in there or something. Is that the white lights? What is going on there? Weirdly wet. But she's so divorced. How divorced is that from the lived experience of just some Albanian who's like sitting there wondering like why the hell we're selling off like big chunks of land to these people? Yeah, and like Eddie Rahman whined like oh this wasn't Jared Kushner. People wouldn't give a shit about the project. That's a direct quote. But look, yeah man, like yeah, people wouldn't be as mad if they didn't think like the president's son-in-law was trying to you know, corruptly buy off this island. Also, So Ramma won a fourth term by promising to get Albania into the EU, but the European Commission has warned that this project could run a foul of some of their environmental rules. So it could upend his entire project. So he's going to have a tough political choice coming up. It is delicious and something we'll continue to watch here. Ben, are you excited about the World Cup or are you soccer guy? I am. I'm actually going to a game. I think I'm going to go to a game too. I'm going to try my best, but I'll let you guys know how it goes once if it happens. I'm going to a game in Houston next week between Portugal and the Democratic Republic of Congo. Nice. I think I'm going thanks to like a world, though. I heard that there was like a guy that worked at the stadium that he was in town for an event. So thank you, world. Yeah. Look at you. Look at you. Yeah. The DRC, DRC is looking good, by the way, like they're looking like the best team from the African continent. Yeah. Well, it's going to be exciting. So the tournament kicks off this week. It's literally the biggest World Cup ever. There are three host countries, the US, Mexico, and Canada, and then there's going to be games in 16 different cities, 48 teams made the tournament this year instead of the usual 32. It will be watched by literally billions of people. And the games themselves will spend 39 days. There will be periods where there's like literally four and up times up to six games per day. So buckle up bosses across the world. We're worried about productivity this month. It is not without controversy. ICE officers are going to be out in force because that always turns out well, just unleashing them on cities. Check out this clip of Department of Homeland Security Secretary Mark Wayne Mullin talking about the ICE presence at the World Cup. And what a lot of people don't think about when they start talking about World Cup is what about the counterfeit products that come in for the human trafficking? When you have crowds this big, criminal activities follow. Well, ICE and HSI are going to be out there every day, fighting against the counterfeit tickets, human trafficking, drug smuggling, counterfeit products. They're going to be working hand in hand with CBP along the way. No, I know there's a lot of acronyms there. So on the bottom of the screen, we're going to tell you what you want each one of them. Hey boss, hold this ball. We have no idea what you should do with it. We can tell you feel really uncomfortable. So maybe just like spinning around and the globe trotter it or something like that. So we're dork in that picture. And what's the social media strategy behind the little pops when they put ice up there? And I think, by the way, I think people have a pretty good idea of what ICE is. Yeah. I don't think we need like the text explanation. I also love like the bizarre like focus on counterfeit. I mean, clearly ICE is there to intimidate people. Like that. I mean, actually, I look forward to buying some counterfeit merch. Like, what are you saying? Like we have to like have a massive sting operation so that only FIFA can you know, pad its pockets with like merch. Yeah, break. Like part of American sports is like the guy selling the t-shirt down the street. That's right. Yeah. FIFA is selling $375 host city jerseys that are the ugliest things I've ever seen. Ben, there's also been some other controversies. Like the Iranian team barely got visas for the games and the U.S. is forcing them to commute to the games in the U.S. from Mexico and force them to stay in Mexico. A bunch of Iranian and African journalists have struggled to get the right visas to cover what's happening. There's a Somali referee named Omar Arton who is denied entry to the U.S. I think in Miami when he'd already flown here, even though he's supposed to be one of FIFA's 52 referees at the World Cup. This guy is literally like the top referee in Africa. I think he was African referee of the year last year and was rejected I think just because he's a Somali guy. Fans from Iran and Haiti have been denied entry to the U.S. A lot of other fans have been denied visas and even the people who can make it here are struggling to afford tickets because FIFA jacked up all the prices to the World Cup which means the games were unaffordable but it also meant that a bunch of resellers gobbled them up in that moment because they thought they wouldn't, you know, they get sold out and now they're having trouble reselling them. So these games are going to be impossible to afford but also the stadiums are empty which is wonderful. And look, every World Cup has its issues, people tend to ignore those issues once kickoff starts. I mean, the last one was in Qatar of all places but it does suck the Trump is going to use this opportunity. Again, like be a dick to entire continents, be racist to entire groups of people and then also you know that he will somehow find a way to make it all about himself by the variant. Yeah. The Iran thing is just so petty. I mean, give me a break. Like let the coach into the country, like let them, this is so stupid and it makes us look small and it speaks to the bigger point, which is like usually when you host something like the World Cup, it's like this opportunity to like showcase your country. Like we're turning it into an opportunity to make the rest of the world low thus even more than they do, you know. Right. And because it's also like the manifestation of all American excess, right? Like the absurdity of the ticket sale and resale industry, right? The like absurd displays of like Trumpian force with ice, the casual racism towards people from Somalia because what Trump still mad about Minneapolis or something. And like Haiti, like Haiti made the tournament and we're not letting Haitian fans in. That's so shitty. Like Haiti deserves this one little bright spot. And again, just because what? Because JD Vance told Trump that some Haitians reading dogs, like he gets these fixations on certain groups of people and he sticks with them. But like my hope is that when the games actually start, like it will just become about the soccer and not any of this nonsense, but like it's going to be like an overhang. We're not making our best impressioner people. And part of what like stresses me out about it, Tommy is having just lived through the Trump performance at the next game. We have the Olympics in LA in a couple of years. So this has just got dry run for Trump to ruin the natural sporting events. Yeah. It is. And also FIFA is also terrible. I was talking around the manual this morning. When he was mayor of Chicago, FIFA wanted to host games in Chicago and have them be one of those host cities. And Ram said no. And he was telling me about why. And it's because the FIFA model lets them claim like the bulk of the ticketing revenue, the broadcasting revenue, sponsorship revenue, concessions, cars, parking. And then the city is supposed to carry the burden for public transportation, safety, security, like medical services, fire protection. And then even like VIP escorts for people that FIFA deemed worthy. And also FIFA demanded that the contract with Chicago include the right to force them to build a dome on soldier field for the tune of like $50 to $100 million. And Ram was like, you take that out and they're like, no, we won't, but just trust us. And then there were also at the time we're demanding that FIFA fund like transportation for ticket holders and then like a big like free FIFA fan fest, which cities were just on the hook for doing. And a bunch of them have decided they had to cancel because they just couldn't afford it. So it's like, this just, this whole thing, it's like a boondoggle for FIFA, they'll make a ton of money. Yeah. Gianni Infantino, the head of FIFA will fluff Trump at every opportunity possible, including, you know, he started when he gave him the FIFA peace prize. But I like it's just not clear that it's going to end well for the host cities, at least not financially. No, and it's going to call in a question whether it's worth hosting these big things, right? And that like, then I'll end up just being in places like Saudi Arabia and Qatar because it's just made to, you know, to jump through so many hoops and spend so much money and you have to treat this guy Infantino like he's some kind of head of state, you know, like again, like the beautiful game will be what it is and I'm excited to watch it, you know. So don't let it spoil things, but like, yeah, this, it is just so indicative of the times that there's this kind of cloud of politics and corruption and profiteering off of it. I mean, maybe the play Tommy is still like, wait, maybe you can get pretty cheap tickets at the last minute because those guys will need to dump the tickets at some point. I think so. I hope so. I think it'll be fun to be able to just go to random games on a weekday. One last thing Ben, our producers wanted us to know that they have diligently scanned the World Cup field for the hottest players in the tournament this year. So what I'm going to do is read to you the names in no particular order. And then you guys let us know in the comments both on YouTube and on Instagram, TikTok, whatever, who you're voting for. Who's your number one? So here's the list. And I don't even know what most of these people look like, by the way, England's Jude Bellingham, Iran's Esan Hassjafi, Portugal's Ruben DS, New Zealand's Marco Stamenik, Australia's Matthew Leckie, Belgian's Kevin De Bruyne, Captain America, Christian Policic. And then finally, of course, we're just going with Cristiano Ronaldo's apps. Now, we can't do Ronaldo. Those are some sick apps, sir. I mean, it's 41. Yeah, there are, but it's yesterday. That man is 41 years old. I know, but look at those. That's an eight pack. Yeah. You kidding me with that? He can just go back and pursue. Of course, we're going to do buy when we're assuming it's so close. Yeah. All right. So that's a great list. Please. Who we should objectify the most out of this entire group of people. And you know, we look forward to reading along with you in the comments here, especially on YouTube. Again, this is why you should be a YouTube subscriber because you get to check on the people out. Yeah. You get the pictures. We all need a great sleep, it's a critical part of being human being, resting, get a good night's sleep. You'll feel better, be in better mood, you'll learn more, do a better job at work. Helix is a critical way to improve your sleep. 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Go to helixsleep.com/world for 20% off-sitewide, that helixsleep.com/world for 20% off-sitewide, helixsleep.com/world. Part of the world is brought to you by Ridge. Maybe we've all had that got off a wallet that was super thick and uncomfortable and bulky and full of business cards. Never needed, never wanted. Don't know what we had them, but they were just there. Business cards. That we call it the pre-ridge wallet. Most men's wallets are gigantic, crusty leather bricks that can't exist in your back pocket without causing you to sit at a weird angle. You know it probably still is the same crusty oversized wallet? Your dad. At a certain point, it's not even a wallet anymore. It's a filing cabinet. That's where Ridge wallet comes in. This father's day, get your dad something that he'll enjoy using every single day. Ridge wallets feature a unique slim modern design that holds up to 12 cards plus cash. They're made with premium materials like aluminum, titanium, and carbon fiber, which make them reliable, durable, and guaranteed for life. Ridge was built by a father and a son, designed to meet the same standard dad set every day. That's in the cradle, I'm just going to keep going, Tommy. All Ridge products have a lifetime warranty. This is literally the last wall you'll ever have to buy, a value that even the most skeptical dad could appreciate. For a limited time, Ridge is running their huge father's day sale where you can get up to 40% off their best gear. Just head to ridge.com/pstw and don't miss out on one of their biggest discounts all year. That's ridge.com/pstw for up to 40% off after you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. That's what our show and tell them we sent you. All right, Ben, back to nerdy stuff. Chinese president Xi Jinping was on the road this week. He was in North Korea for the first time in seven years to meet with North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un. We don't have a ton of information about what they discussed, obviously, because it's two dictators getting together. In the run-up for the visit, there were a bunch of fascinating stories. The time said one, the Wall Street Journal had one, about North Korea's surprising economic turnaround. The journal, they talked to a bunch of recent visitors to North Korea who had talked about landing and all of a sudden they're seeing Chinese electric vehicles all over the place. There's rideshare apps. There's new restaurants. Pizza places. There's a general sense of economic activity happening at a greater level than ever before. They talked about their satellite imagery that shows that North Korea, especially Pyongyang, is three times brighter than it was five years ago. Everything lots are full, oil facilities are more active. You can see that in satellite imagery as well. The pieces both, they juxtapose this economic recovery with the economic catastrophe that hit North Korea during the pandemic. That was the moment when Kim Jong-un was literally giving a speech apologizing and weeping to his own people because they couldn't eat. The biggest driver of this economic change from North Korea, I think seems to be clearly the increased partnership between North Korea and Russia, it's a war in Ukraine. A South Korean think tank called INSS said that from late 2023 through 2025, North Korean arms sales to Russia generated more than $10 billion, which is just a huge boost for a country with an estimated $27 billion GDP. But North Korea also benefited from deploying 16,000 soldiers to fight on behalf of the Russians, reminder that a third of them were hurt or killed. Kim has made billions from state-backed hacking efforts, especially stealing cryptocurrency or extorting places for it. Then they seemingly have just gotten better at evading US sanctions and that have steadily ratcheted up trade with China. This is clearly a win for Kim Jong-un. I wouldn't say it's just unequivocally a good thing if your average North Korean has more food and has a slightly better life. There's a lot of downsides that I'll just quickly tick through. These reports make it sound like North Korean repression has gotten worse and more pervasive. Not better. Kim Jong-un is not just executing his uncle who's a general that he thinks is disloyal. He is reportedly executing people just distributing South Korean TV shows or music. That is horrible. The economic benefits are obviously primarily going to elites in Pyongyang. Some of those quality of life improvements probably trickle down to the city's residents if there's just more general economic activity. But it's not clear if it's leading Pyongyang at all, there's some development in other cities and some rural areas. But it's just way, way less beneficial to people outside of the capital and the UN so believes that nearly half of the people outside of Pyongyang are malnourished. We don't really know exactly what North Korea is getting from Russia in terms of military support and technology. There's concern that they could get a nuclear-powered submarine and new warships and drones. And then finally, there's just the nuclear arsenal ban. I mean, that's the reason we're at war with Iran. PM has believed to have at least 50 assembled nuclear warheads, the components to build up to 100 more or nearly 100 more. And then the capacity to produce maybe a dozen, maybe 20 more per year, and then they've an ICBM that could hit the US. So they are a genuine threat to US national security. So Ben, Trump had three meetings with Kim Jong-un in the first term. He failed to accomplish anything through those meetings. Then it seems like he's just decided to forget that the problem exists. I'm curious what you think, though, given what's happening in Iran. I don't know if that's the worst thing that he's just ignoring the problem rather than waging a war. But what do you make of these reports and she's visiting? I think it is an incredible monument to the absolute failure of US sanctions policy, because we have so over-sanctioned all these countries that they now just ignore our sanctions. I mean, I'm old enough to remember when China and Russia actually participated in the sanctions on North Korea, that's something that used to happen. And I'm sure they cheated a little bit around the edges, but I think that what's happened in recent years is, as the United States has sanctioned Russia, as the United States has put more sanctions on China, too. They're just like, well, screw this, like there's a whole parallel economy that we're going to create. We're trading in different ways, and we're bartering things, and we're using crypto, and we're just evading the dollar in transactions. And so the fact that North Korea still has all these US sanctions on it, and they're just building shit, and they've got electric vehicles, and they're selling weapons. It's a sign that the over-sanctioning of countries has actually created a dynamic where there's so many countries that are over-sanctioned that they just create a parallel trade system with each other. I think that the danger is twofold. You mentioned the repression, I think some people might think, well, why is the repression getting worse? Well, in part, because if things are really, really shitty in the country, you kind of have to be a little cautious about being so repressive, because you don't want to create the powder-acadabit explodes. But if you're riding high, and you feel like you're on the upswing as Kim does right now, well, then, yeah, you're keeping enough people happier that you can repress the hell out of the people that do things you don't like. The only other thing I didn't do is, Tommy, is that I don't trust Kim Jong-un's temperament. No. Not that we know that much about it. We know that he attacked Sony because of that movie with James Franco, right? I worry that if he's feeling more and more emboldened, and he's got this nuclear arsenal as a deterrent, and he's got Russia giving him advanced technology. He's got some money from these various things that he might just start messing around with South Korea. Maybe not a full-scale invasion, but we're going to see some islands, or we're going to sink a boat. What are you going to do about it? We have nuclear weapons. I'd prefer Trump ignore it, because Trump's two approaches seem to be either launching a war, or like bear hugging someone and announcing its historic, even though nothing has accomplished as he did with Kim. There's a non-zero chance that this thing presents itself as a threat through some kind of provocation to South Korea. Yeah. There could trade. If there was a recent incident where North Koreans and South Koreans traded fire on these small islands and all of a sudden, you could be off to the races and some more, highly recommend both these pieces, just sort of a fascinating look. Yeah. They're a very good country where I haven't talked about them in a while. A little quick then. We talked a while back about how former Trump National Security Advisor in full-time war monger. John Bolton was being prosecuted for illegally retaining classified information, and then using it to help write his book. Last week, CNN reported that Bolton is going to plead guilty to unlawfully holding onto classified information and pay a $2.25 million fine. Apparently, he could still face up to five years in prison, assuming the deal is approved. The next court hearing is June 26th, initially Bolton had pleaded not guilty on 18 counts. But more reports kept coming out, and all of a sudden it was like, "Oh boy, this guy is in deep shit." The one count he's reportedly pleading guilty to is writing down classified stuff in his diary and sharing that information with his wife and daughter via his own personal email and some messaging app, which was just insanely stupid. I literally can't believe you did this. The whole case might have come to light because Iran hacked Bolton's email in 2021, and I think the US figured it out. No word on whether Trump will also have to plead guilty for having classified records next to the shitter at Mar-a-Lago, but it does seem like there might be a resolution soon for Mr. Bolton. We said, when this first kind of emerged, these details, including sending emails to his wife and daughter about cost-fed information, let's not please put this in the category of the Winding political persecutions, you know, the James Comey with the, you know, send on the beach or whatever it was, or, um, Tish James, like, this is like, there's an underlying crime here. Now, it is pretty selectively enforced. Um, but this was a pretty brazen violation. Um, so it feels like I'm not sure the guy needs it. I'm no fan of jumbled. I'm not sure they has to do hard time. I mean, a couple million bucks is not nothing, but, uh, but, but yeah, man, like, you know, I mean, I guess the hypocrisy is, you know, Trump is giving himself a different set of rules. And, and actually, what I wonder, Tommy, is to take it to today, do you really trust that Steve Whitcoff or guys like that aren't like walking around with glasses? I don't know. I don't know anything. I'm not, I'll let, you know, but it feels like they're probably pretty casual about their use of personal email. No doubt. And what they do, you know, these people, Kushner and Whitcoff, like, did they even work for the U.S. doesn't have a job. Whitcoff definitely does because you didn't have a job. Yeah. Kushner clearly has class of information though, like under what basis, you know, like, so I, like, it, it is pretty selective, even if, you know, clearly there was a crime here. Yeah. Uh, long time listeners to this show know that we find stories about corruption and gold bars, irresistible, shout out to our guy at Bob Menendez. Uh, but now there's a new entrance into this kind of canon bin after investigators found 303 gold bars in the home of a CIA official named David Rush. They also found a two million in cash and three dozen luxury watches. So this guy, the gold alone was worth more than 40 million dollars. The Washington Post reported that this guy created a fake, highly classified intelligence program that he used to funnel money to himself. Um, and he might have read it. He was so secretive that he read people into it, and apparently a couple of them, but those people couldn't talk to anyone else about it because it was a special action program. So he might have made them unwitting accomplices. It's not really clear yet. Um, we don't have a ton of details due to the classification issues. We know that Rush worked in the directorate of science and technology at the CIA. Those are the people that make all the cool like spying tools, all the gadgets, all the actual tech, uh, very important component. Um, one source told the Post that the fake program was about continuity of government operations. So like what the government does, if we're mopeded by something, and that that's how he got the gold bars. I don't know. Uh, there's also some like kind of vague part of the post story about how Rush was also involved in some of the CIA's most sensitive collection programs and that sort of shocked people that he could be both doing that and this corruption stuff. I don't know who knows. It's impossible to read between the lines sometimes with these. Um, so Ben, I obviously don't support stealing taxpayer dollars. But I do kind of respect the hustle here, like creating a, respect the game. Yeah. Creating a special access program that's so secretive that it's like known only to you in convincing the US government to give you gold bars. Like that's, that's impressive work. I mean, at least we know we have like capable spies. I read this in like two concerns hit me, right? So like the first is that there's long been talk and I've talked to people and intelligence that the growth of these private intelligence firms, you know, like the Wagner group for Russia, Blackwater and all of its offshoots in the US has kind of created this dynamic where like if you're like a really good CIA operative, you also know that, well, shit, if I reach a point in my career, I can just leave and make 10 X, you know, right, working for these guys. And that that might bleed into like, well, I deserve to make a little bit on the side, you know, like a, and that leads me to the second point, which is, you know, not dissimilar to the might as you see my class of information. When your government is run by a grifter who is using the government to enrich himself and his family is like day trading as we just talked about with Jared Ivanka and insider trading, probably people around Trump off of like things like the war and wrong. And that person has removed any values proposition from your government service is probably like being casual about, you know, your relationships that you built in foreign countries, right, because we're insulting those countries or we're picking fights at those leaders, you know, grift begets grift. And, and, you know, there's been a lot to talk about whether the, you know, there's incompetence or mega people embedded in places like the intelligence community, that's a concern. I think another concern is just like, are these guys looking around and being like, well, shit, like this whole government is now just a grift. I might as well have my global bars one. It's amazing. This guy, what a guy. Also bad. My concern was like a vetting of these people. Like, apparently this guy claimed to have a degree from Clemson in RPI. The FBI then found no record of him attending either school. He claimed to have been a Navy pilot. There's no evidence of that either. They also alleged that rush lied to the CIA about all of this and fraudulently got like $77,000 in military leave pay despite being discharged from the Navy as far back as 2015. So like, this guy was just clearly lying about so much stuff and no one caught it until he had sampled 300 plus gold bars in his home. It feels like we got to be catching these people a little earlier at all. So there's a lot of other things happening that it's pretty damaging the national security that we're just missing. Yeah. Well, the, you know, the colonoscopy that they put us through to get security clearances kind of manages to put a giant spotlight on like your college marijuana use as disqualifying from government service. But somehow couldn't figure out this guy didn't go to school. He said tons of time to overhaul that whole system, right? How we clear people to let more people through who deserve it and to win or out the people that are that are lying about it. At least this guy crashes and burns. If he has some time in prison, he could probably write a pretty good Netflix show while he's there. Yeah, I'd love to know about this special access program. Finally, Ben, speaking of unbelievably ballsy cons, I want to tell you briefly about someone named Mokboud Sediz Bouba. So Bouba was a candidate for Nigeria's House of Representatives. There was a video that got released by his political party. They're kind of like asking questions about his candidacy. And it exploded on social media because he did not look or sound like a traditional politician. So as the Nigerian paper, the Whistler put it, quote, "his physical appearance specifically his small stature due to dwarfism and his remarkably youthful face triggered an immediate wave of public reaction." So a lot of this reaction was inspired by the fact that this guy, he wasn't rich, he wasn't famous, he was dealing with dwarfism, but he was able to run for office. A lot of people found that exciting and inspirational. But the story quickly fell apart. When documents surface that listed Bouba's actual age, this guy had been telling people he was 30 years old, it turns out he is only 15 years old. And he somehow managed to fool everybody about his age despite a lot of visual evidence to the contrary that might lead you to believe like actually this person seems like they are a child. Check out this video compilation of Bouba meeting with voters in talking with the media. You all are allowed to answer with one word. So, criticism, what do you think criticism is? fuel or distraction? Extraction. So, do you think social media is it a blessing or treasure? Treasure. Some treasure, some blessing or discipline. So, one word for your supporters. So, it takes balls to run for office no matter what. It takes even bigger balls to run for office and lie about your age because you are only 15 years old. It takes balls of steel to fake your age and run for office while having a genetic condition that makes you look like a literal five-year old and then fill you riding on a miniature red pony. That part of the thing nearly killed me. I want to make this kid president immediately. Just put them in there and install them. Remember we had kid president in the long years. I love this guy. This is we finally arrived at the stage of the podcast where I like the grift. This is not Jared and Ivanka building resorts, this is not the gold bars. This is a guy I haven't pretty good time. I'm old enough to have gotten those emails from the fake Nigerian princes. There's some entrepreneurial spirit there that I respect. Mark Mood. We respect you. We are going to take a quick break. When we come back, you're going to hear my interview with BBC's Will Grant about what life is like on the ground in Cuba, concerns about Trump staging some sort of Venezuela like operation, and much, much more. 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Then it comes in the mail. You set it up in a minute. There's no you don't need to use a drill. You can just stick it up there and then it works and the app is great and the customer support is great and you got peace of mind. You're to hear first folks. We want you to experience the peace of mind of real home security which is why we partnered with SimplySafe to offer an exclusive discount to PodSafe the world listeners. Right now you can get 50% off your new system by visiting simplysafe.com/cricutworld. That's half off. It's simplysafe.com/cricutworld. There's no safe like simply safe. My guest today is the Mexico Central America and Cuba Correspondent for the BBC and recently got back from a trip to Cuba. Well, great. Welcome to the show. Thank you very much for having me to be with you. Thank you for doing this. So you have spent a bunch of time in Cuba both recently and then over many years. How has life changed for Cuban people since President Trump sort of drastically ratcheted up sections? Well, I lived there for seven years starting as sort towards the end of 2014. So I saw this sort of narrative arc in Cuba of the Obama administration's policy of opening the sort of optimism that was going with that among ordinary people who really did feel like the Cold War might truly be behind them. It felt like a period of opportunity for young people. There was quite a lot of dynamism, a sense there might be a future for a lot of young people on the island. And that was a positive experience to see, to see that whole period, to live there during that. To comparing that to today, it feels very far removed. You have had, of course, a series of steps taken both under the first Trump presidency and then continued by the Biden presidency, which were, if you like, the unpicking of that policy, that policy of engagement and putting it back very much on a hostile footing. So that started long before where we are today and was continued under the Biden administration. Where we are today is the, after the removal of Nicholas, the force removal of Nicholas Madoldor from power on the third of January, basically the switching off of the tap of oil, of crude oil to Cuba from Venezuela. And not just from Cuba, the Trump administration has made it abundantly clear to Mexico that it expects some sort of drop of oil to arrive from Mexico either or anywhere else in the world for that matter. We've only seen really one shipment make it through of 830,000 barrels from Russia. But other than that, it is Cuba's only producing what it produces, which is knowing near enough a domestic consumption, and surviving in any which way it can. Huge restrictions on consumption. So you're seeing no cars on the streets. You're seeing these long and very arduous blackouts. You're seeing hospitals running at a fraction of their capacity. You're seeing schools shuttered on many days of the week. Normal businesses are simply operating. State businesses are closed. People are having to walk everywhere or cycle. And that's some of it. The worst bit is that the summer is coming. The summer months are very hot. The mosquitoes, there's no power with which to run air conditioning or fans to keep the mosquitoes at bay. You're seeing no trash picked up from the streets. The garbage trucks aren't doing their rounds. The state unfleet of garbage trucks. So you put all of these things into the single experience and it is incredibly bleak. It really is very, very dire and actively getting worse week after week after week. Yeah, I mean, those dire conditions you talk about. No refrigeration for food, no transportation for trash picked up or anything else. Hospitals just having to shut off, I guess, because they don't have power. If you can't get the lights on, I don't know how you perform a surgery or do anything else. Have those factors resulted in any measurable impact on mortality or health outcomes that you've seen? Can we measure that? You can't get reliable statistics on these things. You're completely beholden to the Cuban state in terms of what it says. It isn't happening. But we know, I mean, I know anecdotedly from going to a hospital during blackouts that they are only accepting in many cases, emergency cases. I don't know to what extent we can give, you know, anyone's got the number yet about, you know, how many more, you know, how this is hitting infant mortality or impacting pregnancies or you know, the death rate among curable disease and things like this. But if it's not there yet, it's certainly in the post. I mean, that's the feeling among ordinary Cubans. The hospitals are doing what they can and I saw inside, for example, a maternity ward that does have a very large generator and is running, you know, for the very, very basics. I've been in contact throughout this experience with a pregnant woman who's now just had her baby. It was a pretty bleak and difficult experience, but the baby was born, the attention to her from the medical staff was good, but it is sort of down to the individuals and their hard work really to make sure she was looked after in these very, very trying circumstances. I just can't even imagine having to give birth in those circumstances, unimaginable. I know there have been some big protests of the economic conditions. What is your sense of whether the Cuban people generally speaking blame the government for this crisis or the Trump administration policies? Yeah, it's a very, very good question because it really is a division. Now, you would expect there to be outright anger just at the Trump administration for what it's doing, you know, that this has been imposed upon the island from outside, but there is a lot of anger at the Cuban government for the fact that these things predate, not just Trump's current policy, but even Trump returning to power, you know, coming back to office for his second term, that the island was already going through blackouts, that the island didn't make the most of a sort of its economic opportunities, that there is mismanagement in the economy, that they have been building five star hotels instead of investing in electricity infrastructure, power infrastructure, things like that. So that anger at the sort of Cuban states decision-making is very, very present. Let's make no mistake about that. And what's interesting is that although there is plenty of people on the streets when the government organizes a protest outside the US Embassy and they will echo the slogans and they are, there is genuine anger of course at the Trump administration. I've also seen people lose their fear and now it's a journalist who's worked there a lot, you know, I used to put the microphones in front of people and they just repeat these lines out of grandma, the state-run newspaper or, you know, the revolutionary slogans. So you couldn't get any kind of feeling for what people actually wanted to say or it was very difficult to get that on tape. It was very couched and careful. Not anymore, people are just saying whatever they want or a lot of people are. And I've heard some people say as brazenly as I hope Trump does come in and say this over, I'm done, you know, whatever's coming, let it come, we need change. So that has been one of the surprises to me that it's not sort of coalesced into this cold-hard anger at Marco Rubio and at and at Donald Trump as much as one might imagine. That is there, of course, it's there, particularly among the revolutionaries where it's very, very present, but among a lot of ordinary people, they just want whatever this is to be over so that they can have some semblance of a normal life, some semblance of a normal relationship with Washington, some kind of existence that's dignified for their children, they can send their children to school without empty bellies. I mean, we're talking basic stuff. This is sort of survival mode at the moment if you ask me. Yeah, I mean, I guess that's probably it's complicated, but there's been a bunch of reporting about the strength of Cuban nationalism and the likelihood that Cubans in general would resist sort of a quote unquote Venezuelan option where the U.S. comes in, removes say the Castro's or the Rao Castro and leaves in a more client government that they feel like they can control, but it sounds like what you're saying is you have heard from some Cubans that maybe they look at Venezuela and think, I don't know, that seems preferable to whatever this is. Yeah, I've sort of heard both ends of the scale. Let's not forget that the Cuban Revolution was really a nationalist movement before it was Marxist-Lenist one. You know, it is very much about kind of La Patria, you know, about the island and the island's independence and that's what Fidel Castro gave to the people in 1959 after being basically run by not just the Washington Craven dictatorship at the time, but a series of them really throughout the 20th century to that point. So that's really his first manifestation and then it's sort of, you know, he sort of either fell into the arms or was pushed, you know, it's a debate in Latin American academic circles into the arms of the Soviet Union, into the arms of Moscow. The truth of the matter is it became obviously as we know this communist revolution in a bipolar world and it doesn't really seem to have a handle on what it is for the 21st century and that's again not right now and Donald Trump or even the Obama administration's attempt to sort of pick a route through this. I think it's been a little bit lost really for a while in terms of offering a sort of viable alternative to Cuban's young people who have opted for Exodus, who have opted for migration instead. But you're absolutely right. The look at the Venezuelan model, I think brings these two things. One is the sort of old school revolutionaries, and I've spoke to one who is sort of by the side of Che Guevara on the battlefield who's saying, "We're not Venezuelan, we'll be fighting until our last breath. Just give me, in my 80s, a rifle, that kind of attitude." And those others who are saying, "We need change." And if that change needs to be radical, if it needs to be stripping the bandaid off in one, then we've got to do that. We can't continue along this path because it's leaving far too many hungry people. It's leaving pensioners without any kind of dignified pension that's reflected in any way with the prices on the supermarket shelves. There have also been reports of, I think, talks between the Trump administration and maybe Castro's grandson or nephew and then CIA director John Rackliffe was in Cuba recently. It's not entirely clear what his message was. They put out a press release claiming what it was, but it sounded to me like an opportunity to deliver an ultimatum. In that moment, I felt like the lights were kind of blinking red that something was about to happen in terms of the Trump administration, like taking a next step to pressure the Cuban that obviously has not. But is there any reporting on or sense of what these conversations have been about? I almost want to take a beaten coat. That's the CIA director was in Havana. It's just so extraordinary. And I was standing on the Malay Khan just in the very days after which is the water front promenade in Havana that runs all the way the length of the long part of the city. And I was standing there during a protest, a government organized protest outside the US Embassy when John Rackliffe went to Venezuela. So this was straight in the days after the Venezuela operation and Maduro now in custody. And John Rackliffe was in Venezuela. And I showed this to a Cuban official and his, you know, literally so he sort of turned gray, you know, it just extraordinary stuff to me. Like I've been doing this a long time now. You know, I've basically dedicated my career to Latin American coverage. And it's still, I can't quite believe there's been military action in Venezuela in the 20th century. I can't believe that, you know, that there's been all of these things have happened to lead to the point that you have the CIA director sitting down in front of Raul Castro's grandson, the interior minister and the head of the intelligence services of Cuba. And exactly as you say, exactly what was that conversation? What was said? What was the message delivery? Was it merely in part the message delivery is the presence being there of sort of, you know, showing that moment that we're here and we're very, very serious. Now, let's remember it happened fractionally before the indictment against Raul Castro. So it might be saying, look, this is in the pipeline, it's coming. And we are 100% serious about the fact that we expect root and branch change to the Cuban revolution. We don't expect a tinkering at the top and a little moving around here and a bit more economic openness, which arguably would be the suggestion that that's all the Obama administration was able to achieve. You know, that's the Miami view of what was sort of the failures, if you like, of the reproachment that it didn't go far enough, it didn't really achieve meaningful change. That Michael Rubio isn't going to be convinced by those things, that he wants nothing less than wholesale economic and political change to the Cuban revolution. So I assume some version of that was the message that was brought with by John Radcliffe. And we'll have to see exactly what the response of the Cuban government will be. Again, I would agree with you. I think it looked at that point like it really was on the cusp of something happening. And now there seems to have been this delay. President Trump has made it clear that it will always be after Iran. And Iran can't be said to be over at this stage, you know, in those terms. So could it be as simple as well as the world cup having some kind of influence, where, you know, would you really be carrying out military action of some description on an island that's 90 miles off the coast of Florida, closing the airspace to Miami, where there are matches and so on, you know. So who knows exactly what the calculations are, but I do think at the heart of the calculation is something will happen unless what have been a puts on the table is deemed good enough to Washington. Yeah, this is a really good point about the world cup. I guess, I guess time will tell. Trump certainly seems to have kind of a project underway of trying to prop up as many right-wing governments in Latin America as he can. There's clear it's pressure campaign on the Cubans following on the Maduro operation. And the human cost is enormous. There's a lot of conversation about the Venezuela option for Cuba. What on earth could or would that look like, do you think? I think that is also the question that so many ordinary Cubans are asking themselves exactly what is it, you know, it is coming, but what is it? And I think that is the one thing that none of us know at this day. It could be the Venezuela option of some kind of swooping it. Would they do that to a 95-year-old, you know, a regional founder of the revolution? Because that really would get ordinary Cubans backs up, I think, even those who want to see change. Almost in the sense that you don't do that to another man, like, you know, he's lived his life and that, you know, that wouldn't go along with with Cuban society. I don't think it's all well. At the same time, maybe it is some kind of tactical military action similar to what we're seeing in Venezuela, but not against him if he is simply removed from the equation, and it's against other members of the top leadership. Is it nothing to do with actually striking or seeing boots on the ground on the Malacom, which would be the most extraordinary idea? But this is, I think, the rub. Is that all of these things would have felt so outlandish, and I'm not talking outlandish, you know, five years ago, when they would have seemed incredibly unlikely. But, you know, seven months ago, it seemed completely impossible that you'd be having this conversation about Cuba. But because of what we've seen in Venezuela, there is the point of example. And I think that is what the Trump administration is using as the ace of its sleeve. We are capable of doing this, and let's not forget that when the military action in Venezuela was carried out, more than 30 of those who killed, it's 34, were Cubans. They were the Cuban soldiers and close security officers around Nicolas Maduro, and the Delta Force cut through them in seconds with these extremely sophisticated weapons, extremely well planned operation. And that, again, is back to that messaging that John Radcliffe may have been bringing with him, which basically says, you are simply no match for us. Your revolutionary firm might have been relevant in the 1960s, '70s and '80s. You may have, you know, under Fidel sort of won certain moments against us. This is now in the 21st century where nothing that you have can compare to what we have militarily. So I think the vastly safest option for the ordinary Cubans, and therefore potentially for the Cuban government, if it's capable of taking that path, would be the negotiated solution, which we'll have to mean, as we've mentioned, this complete redrawing of the sort of political and economic map, basically letting go of the reins of tourism infrastructure, tourism real estate, letting go of the reins of the import export businesses, somehow reimagining the island's politics and economy. I should check out the Bay of Pigs. I heard it's a good strategic location to land troops and then conduct them operation. Obviously, I'm just kidding. No comment. But I wanted to talk to you about the World Cup because you're in Mexico City right now. In the US, there's a lot of excitement. Like, I can't wait to watch the games. I can't believe there's going to be like four games a day for weeks. It's madness. But some of that excitement is tempered by crazy ticket prices, anxieties about ice, anxieties about, you know, visas and players getting in general dislike of Trump. What's the vibe like in Mexico right now in advance of the games? You know, I've been saying, I think if this were the Mexico 2026 World Cup, this place would be humming right now. You know, you'd have all of the different teams here. You'd have kind of, you know, events from all of the different teams around their camps. There'd be this sort of buoyance. But unfortunately, it isn't like that yet. Now, that's not long to go until kick off. But, you know, I think that people are looking at some of the hassles and the obstacles to this point more than they are the football so far. So, specifically, there's been difficulties at the airport rebuilding the airport from, you know, a sort of non-functional parts of it, whether or not that, you know, it cues to get your luggage or taxes and things. It's just a very, very hassle-y experience to get in and out in Mexico City's main airport. So they've done this major multi-million dollar refurbishment, but it's going on and on and it's, you know, it's really not very much time left and there are still hassles there. Traffic in Mexico, as we know, they're a major protest plan by the teachers union, by transport workers by the families of the disappeared, there's 130,000 disappeared people in Mexico and their families are really using this World Cup to say, look, you're doing all the security around this event, where's the security when it comes to finding our missing loved ones, to bringing those who have believed to still be alive and forced into working for the cartels home and dealing with this issue that we've been calling for for years and years and years. And of course, it was only February when we saw cartel members on the streets setting fire to vehicles, setting fire to stores, convenience stores, spreading fear and violence in 20 of the 32 states. I don't think that that side of it will impact incoming fans. I mean, it's simply not particularly good for business from a cartel point of view to do something like that to, you know, to fans coming in to watch football games. I don't think that will be in their mindset at all. But nevertheless, it was a serious security concern. It must be a worry for those who do have tickets in their hand going, how will that work out? I went to Monterey, which is one of the host cities and was shown all the security measures they're doing there by the police and by the the security forces. It's a pretty major operation and they're more focused on the natural things that go with big soccer matches, big sporting events like crowd control and petty theft and small episodes of violence rather than cartels. They're convinced that the cartels won't be in issue. All of this batch of original question, how are people feeling? Is there anticipation and excitement? There's some and the more we get closer, I think, the greater the excitement. The hassle is that there is just too many things going on. This is a shared world cup with the Trump administration in charge in the US at a time when relations are far from great. It's this three countries, the sort of NAFTA world cup. And it's just not necessarily got the same ability to coalesce kind of one nation around one idea, which is, hey, we're doing this. We're going to put on the great show where it's Mexico in the eyes of the world, you know, it's, well, we've got less than a third of the games. But still, Mexicans are fantastic hosts. They want this to go well. They want to show their best side. They want this to be, you know, best foot forward. And they want, I think, to show that they can overcome these challenges, particularly President Claudia Shehmam. She has been a consistent voice saying, this is going to be fine. Not only fine, it's going to be great. We're going to do really well. Mexico be the bit that everybody remembers. You know, this is going to be a great world cup. But yeah, push. She's coming to shop on that right now. Yeah. Clock is ticking. I guess, the first game is Thursday. I think it's good to hear that the concerns about cartel violence have lessened. I mean, I was talking to someone a friend yesterday kind of in the soccer media world who was telling me about some of those anxieties. I remember, you know, there was some thinking that maybe the cartels could react to government operations against, you know, their leadership at the games. I agree with you, though. I mean, it seems like, boy, that's a great way to have Donald Trump suddenly, you know, launching drone strikes on your operations, wherever they may be. It's also kind of heartening to know that the U.S. isn't the only country where we inject politics into our sports and try to make it complicated for lack of better term. One way it's complicated, by the way, the U.S. is forcing the Iranian team to stay in Mexico and fly back and forth to the U.S. for games. Is the Iranian team out and about doing stuff at all? Is there any awareness or reaction to that kind of general dickishness from the U.S. among Mexicans? I think they're very, very aware that they are hosting the Iranian team around this World Cup and that they're up there in Tijuana right on the border so that they can at least get reasonably quickly to the games in Los Angeles. But it's obviously a much bigger trip up to their one game in Seattle and then back. And then obviously if they make it out of the group stages, then there are more logistical schools beyond that. Clara Shainbaum, again, was very kind of forthright about this going, look, FIFA's come to me and they've asked me to do this. America has, you know, got its own question going on there. I don't agree with it. We have absolutely no problem in having the Iranians here. And she was pretty proud of that one, I think, to make sure that it was that thing that I mentioned, that hosting, that good host, that welcoming side of the Mexican society. So yes, there was quite a lot of coverage of their arrival. Up and up, since then, essentially like all teams, they pretty much keep a low profile. They're training. You're only allowed to see a few minutes of them train. If you're a journalist accredited for that sort of stuff, anyway, and I know a lot of journalists have gone up to Tijuana to see them. But I think they're trying probably now to focus on the actual sport, rather than the politics, it must be quite, you know, an exhausting experience to get to this point. I mean, their flight alone, I think, was Istanbul Madrid, you know, Tijuana. It's a long way round, considering they're meant to be in Arizona. But yeah, Mexicans are well aware of that side story to the whole. There's a drama, if you like. What a mess. Just let the guys in, let them play. Well, at least they are doing that dumb game, but we always try to force the Italians in and kick the Iranians out at one point. And like, come on. You don't think the even Italians are like, this is stupid. This is amazing for us. Will Grant, thank you for joining the show. I've been a huge fan of your work on the BBC for a very long time. So it's great to finally get to talk with you and hopefully get to go to a game. Yeah, absolutely. I'm accredited and I'm hoping to see inside the Azteca for that kickoff. That'll be fun. It'll be a bit split in my house. If England win their group stage and then their first match and Mexico do the knockout match and Mexico do the same, then it could be England, Mexico and the Azteca, which would be chef's kiss, but my kids are Mexican. So this house will be a tricky one. I was going to say a house divided will not stand, but hopefully we get there. That'd be a health good match. Anyway, thank you. We'll appreciate your time. Genuine pleasure. Thanks again, Will Grant for joining the show. And thanks to you guys for listening and talk to you guys next week. The positive world is a cooking media production. Our show is produced by Alona Minkowski, Michael Goldsmith and Inisha Bonnergy. Our team includes Matt DeGroat, Ben Heffko, Jordan Cantor, Kenny Moffett, David Tolls and Ryan Young. Her staff is probably unionized with the writer's guild of America East.