Janssen's Elena Diez and Odyssey Therapeutics' Gary Glick share advice on success factors for pharma - biotech partnerships, and more

Today's episode from the studio at Kendall Square is brought to you by Mass Bio. Welcome to the studio at Kendall Square. My name is Elena Diaz and I'm your host for today and this is my guest, Gary Glyrk. Today we're going to talk about the crucial role of biotech and pharma collaborations to advance early stage innovation to market. Let's start with some introductions. So as I said, my name is Elena. I'm Senior Director of External Innovation for DPDS in AdjNJ, which is Discovery, Product Development and Supply. In other words, we are the Research Engine for JNJ, which is Multimorality, and I cover External Innovation for Adjuox Intetic Moralities, which include Small Molecules, RNA, peptides and the plafond companies across the repeaty areas and in East North America. I'm PhD MBA and I'm a Digital Chemist by Training and I base here in the Boston Innovation Center at Kendall Square. Gary, do you want to introduce yourself? Sure. First, thank you very much for having me Elena. It's wonderful to see you again in good afternoon. I'm also an organic chemist by training. I spent most of my career after my post-optural studies on the chemistry faculty at the University of Michigan, where I ran a lab for over 27 years. During that time, I spun a company out of my lab called Lycera, where I was the Chief Scientific Officer. After a big deal with Selgi, I left there to start another company called IFM Therapeutics, which is a little known secret. It actually stands for Italians for Michigan. I also started a company at the same time called First Wave Bio. I moved on from there after IFM in First Wave to start a company called Scorpion Therapeutics, working in the area of Target Oncology that was founded with Keith Flourity at Mass General. And then now I am the founder and CEO of Odyssey Therapeutics. Great. Thank you, Gary. Perhaps to set the stage a little bit for our audience, you announced our collaboration earlier this year in April to work on AI-Dreven Small Molecules Drug Discovery Programs. This collaboration really uses both of our expertise in computational chemistry, AI-ML, and drug discovery and development to go after hydro-drug targets. Could you maybe tell us a little bit more about Audis' mission and scientific focus? Sure. So at Odyssey today, we're singularly focused in the area of autoimmune diseases and inflammation, ultimately trying to develop medicines that will change the standard of care for patients living with chronic inflammatory conditions. Medicines that lead to disease modification and deep remissions. Great. And I think in addition to that, your seamless integration of like Encelico Tools, for example, physics-based modulation, also like AI-ML tools, your mix-MD for crypto-pocket generation, are a great tool in addition to combination with the experiments and capabilities and lab infrastructure, which allows you to optimize chemical matter. Really, really quickly, and reduce your DMTA cycles. Yeah. So maybe to set the stage a little bit, I started graduate school in 1983 working with Clark Still at Columbia University. Actually, the first year in graduate school, I wrote molecular modeling software and simulation software. Back in the early 80s, it was very different than it is today, and I've watched the tools develop both sort of the physics-based tools, and now more recently, the application of more deep learning to help optimize small molecule chemical matter. And it was just very clear to me today that given the development of these tools, any modern biotech company or pharmaceutical company that is seriously interested in small molecule drug discovery needs to integrate the most advanced set of tools for it, hit finding lead optimization into their experimental platform, because it truly, it allows you to solve problems that you couldn't solve otherwise, come to those solutions faster. And give you better solutions. Completely agree. Absolutely. So perhaps before we go, I'll add more into the details on Odyssey and more on the tool side. And in light of the upcoming Massachusetts Innovation Day that we host in here to celebrate groundbreaking healthcare solutions that were developed here in Massachusetts as we sit right now, can you tell us what excited you about being part of the Massachusetts Innovation ecosystem and why Boston is such a special place for healthcare collaborations? So, you know, I started in biotech probably close to the year 2000, and I've watched various regions emerge. But today there is no place better in the world than Massachusetts, Boston and the Cambridge area, and the surrounding areas for biotech. It's the concentration of really among the best institutions of the world, both the universities and the hospitals. Pharma has set up here and the number of investors and biotech companies get launched here, where everything was in walking distance, is really is no place like it. And the people, you know, even folks that work at different companies, there's an amazing, mutually supportive environment where we're all really going after the same mission to develop medicines that improve the lives for patients. Everyone takes that very, very seriously and it's very supportive of each other. There's, again, I travel around a lot and I've just never seen anything like that anywhere else in the world. I think Boston is the epicenter for life science worthwhile. As you said, for the wealth of academic institutions, biotech, pharma, and medical centers, all together in a very small geographic area, which allows that connection. And I've been walking this to this. Exactly. You don't have to get in a car to go someplace. You can be at a meeting in in in in Kapli Center and walking being Kendall Square, you can walk to the seaport, it'd be at vertex or lily, all within, you know, a matter of an hour or so. And that that proximity just enhances and and and fosters a set of interactions and collaborations, you just can't get anywhere else. Yeah, completely agree. And actually also the access to top talent too, right? Let's not forget that. Here, Boston is the head of like here in the top industries, sorry, so in universities and and good in industry research, right? That you can access and it's really hard to replicate even though in other places, right? Yeah, so so the companies that I have built, you know, have focused in hiring primarily on individuals that have experienced making molecules and breathing those into the clinic, whether they're small molecules or proteins and developing those. And the talent within the entire Boston area for that is again, it's just it's nearly impossible to find this depth anywhere else in in the world. Yeah, no, absolutely. And maybe since we're talking about the innovation ecosystem here and Gary, you are a serial entrepreneur, you have a lot of experience working with Big Pharma and doing collaborations to accelerate, accelerate your early discoveries to patients faster. From your experience, what was the say what's the benefit of those early collaborations with Pharma and particularly what was unique about the G&J collaboration that supported your company at a valuable time? So, you know, one of the things that I think it's very important for all entrepreneurs and early stage companies to do at the absolute earliest time in the company's life cycle is to introduce themselves to pharma partners. Even though the programs may be not be ready for partnering or the platform might not really for partnering, getting to know, getting to know pharma is incredibly important. This is a relationship driven business. It takes a lot of time to really understand the technology and watch that evolve and understand the, you know, the other side's potential interest in there. So, that's just sort of a predicate and it's something I do with all of my companies. You know, that said, I think there are two main reasons why, you know, two main benefits for partnering with Pharma. One of those is around sort of, again, I would say company building. You know, oftentimes Pharma has certain levels of expertise that the company simply don't have in maybe an area of development, maybe an area of science. And establishing a collaboration with Pharma can help enhance sort of the knowledge base within the biotech company in ways that would just be impossible or take many years in a lot of capital to do with the business. I think the other piece is obviously around the technology. You know, the depth in Pharma is just, one cannot really emphasize, you know, how much knowledge base has been built up in many of the large pharma companies over many, many decades. And there are certain medicines that are simply are better put in the hands of a partner who knows those therapeutic areas better than the small company. For example, at IFM, a company that I founded in 2015, we had two assets in the I/O space in the 2016-17 timeframe. And rather than trying to take those in the clinic ourselves, which were really very challenging clinical development paths, we had a partnership with Bristol Myers, who was one of the world's leaders in I/O with Optivo and Irvoi. And we felt, you know, the medicines would have a better chance of getting patients through the collaboration rather than trying to do that ourselves. Similar with another asset from I/FM, NNLRP3 and MFM. in the lab, a sub-hibitor. That requires a very in-depth, large, sort of clinical development plan. And avardas probably had more experience and understanding of that pathway than anyone else in the world. And we felt that putting the drug in avardas' hands gave it the largest chance to get to patients who need it. - Yeah, no, that's really well said. And I think for our collaboration with GenJ, we are really committed to our collaboration, just from, like, say, financially, or providing capabilities, as you said, and tools to develop faster, you know, dream-enverted medicines. We also committed to your mission, right? We wanted to support, you wanted to succeed in your mission. And that also aligns with ours, right? In the case of use of AI, we are committed to enhance and utilize the integration of AI across the whole drug development process from all the way from target identification to NME, to use for clinical trial design. So, our collaboration enhanced or AI tools. - So, you know, one of the things, and we were very, very fortunate that there are a number of companies we're interested in partnering with, you know, around our computational platform. And one of the things that we saw very early in the, literally, one of the first set of discussions with GenJ was a scientific alignment philosophically of how we think about the use of these tools, the breadth of these tools, the integration of these tools, and really the complementary tools that we had with the tools that are being developed here, and the ability to combine them truly in a synergistic, seamless manner, in a way that it's, we didn't have an invented here and invented there. What mattered is the mission in solving the problem, which are, you know, both organizations are very interested in the problems that we're working on. And when you have that type of collaboration, it's just a dream, you know, it's just, it's so enjoyable for the people on the project, and it oftentimes leads to a better outcome than otherwise. - Yeah, yeah, for sure. And this leads me to my next question about what was special, you know, about, or the relationship with GenJ, because I know you had different partners that drove the attention around your platform around your assets, but can you tell us a little bit about what was, why did you do a partnership with us? - So I'm gonna embarrass you. (laughing) And, you know, one of the big things that was instrumental in getting this deal done was you. - It was a team. - Of course it's a team effort, but there's always a point person for the company, and it starts at that point person. And I can't emphasize enough how important that initial relationship is, but as we got to know your team and your colleagues, really all the way up to the most senior management, it was transparent, it was honest, it was all around the mission for patients, it was about doing the right things, it was science driven, it was, you know, not worrying about the little things, it was worrying about the big things, and knowing that there was a way that we will get through them, and a way that worked for us, it a way that worked for you. And, you know, when you have an opportunity to work through an organization like yours, in that environment, it's very special. - Yeah, absolutely. I think there was a great synergy between the teams, from the discovery organization, from DPDS, from Water Reputed Area, from the data science teams, everyone working together as one team, with you. I think we also wanted to ensure we were you prefer partner, right, partner choice for us to work together, to develop, and maybe this partnership, so you can just just jump in on one thing, 'cause you actually said something that's very important, maybe for the sort of the newer entrepreneurs. - Yeah. - You know, oftentimes when you do a deal, it's with one therapeutic area, or one division, or one organization, or one group within a company, you know, here is you described it, there were a lot of constituencies on the dance inside, that had to come together. Oftentimes, that is, well, nearly impossible, that's a very hard thing to do, but your team was completely aligned, it was completely seamless, and it was very easy for us to work with you on that. And I think, you know, crudos to the Janssen team for being able to do that, 'cause not a lot of organizations can. - Yeah, no, that's great. A good thing about our discovery organization on DPDS, that we work across therapeutic areas, right? So we are the engine, and we seed in the middle and connect everybody, right? So that is a seamless integration to work for partners, right? The point person. - And in that regard, you know, Janssen has a very longstanding relationship or reputation for that, not just in the Boston area, but around all the innovation centers that you have around the world. - Exactly, exactly. And I think the advice that you gave to entrepreneurs, you guys did it really well. I think we build trust, right? Early on in our collaboration, and in our discussions and the negotiation, we show flexibility and willingness to partner, and work together in a genuine way, right? We wanted to make sure that we make this happen, and we would like to do like a wing wing collaboration. We didn't, even though we had like up and down on like deal terms and IP terms, you know, it took us a village to get that done, but we have this wing wing partnership in mind for both partners, right? - And we both wanted to work with each other, right? - Exactly. - And it was, we just felt that we would learn the most working with Jensen, and the project was incredibly interesting, and I think very important for patients, and I think your team felt that way about the tools that we bring to the table. So that's what, when you can put that together, and that really takes precedence over, you know, oftentimes unfortunately just financial issues. - Financials, yeah. - Which was just it. That's again, how do you get to a win? - Yeah, let's not underestimate the financial, non-financials aspects of a collaboration. Absolutely. - Great, so I think this goes to my very last question around, you know, what advice we have in giving advice to entrepreneurs all along or conversation, but any specific advice you want to give to entrepreneurs out there that keeps them motivated even in difficult times. - So, you know, one benefit I guess about being around a long time, you know, it provides some context. These are not actually very bad times. I, you know, I raised my first series A, I remember being on Sand Hill Road when the DAW was down 900 points, and back then in 2008, nine, 900 points, but a lot, something a lot different than today, you know, getting around done. - Yeah. - You know, there's a lot more capital today. There are a lot more investors, a lot of different, very exciting ways to get companies financed. There's a lot more in the way of farmer partnerships, and certainly early stage discovery collaborations. I think the key thing to focus in on is the patient of the medicine. And if one really makes that your true North star, you know, it provides all the motivation that one needs to get over the line. But again, I think everyone needs to recognize that yes, you know, we went through a, you know, a bit of a biotech winter because of the markets and COVID, but we're through that. I think the industry is stronger. I think it's very healthy. I think it's exciting. I think people want to really get down to work and do something important. - Yeah, absolutely. I also think that for us, a G&J innovation comes from anywhere. It could be from an internal scientist, but also from external entrepreneurs out there like you. And actually a large percentage of our pipeline is sourced externally. So we need you, right? We need that innovation. We need entrepreneurs. And in my case, the advice I would give to entrepreneurs is also engage early, as you said early. Engage early, get to build those relationships, build that trust with your potential partners down the line. So when you idea is mature, you have that already there, right? You could use that relationship as a catalyst to a larger collaboration. - And I think it's really important for entrepreneurs, particularly people early in their career. You have to really understand how far it works. Just like when one is seeking venture capital financing, understanding what motivates venture capital is to make investments, not to make investments, that's critical to help succeed in financing it. Large farmers are large organizations. There's a lot of people. There's processes put in place for very good reasons. You have to understand why they do things, how they do things, the timeline. So you don't become frustrated. And you actually make the right calls, the right decisions, and they're speaking to the right people. So you have to invest the time to understand. It's not just simply a meeting. Why didn't they call me back? - Mm-hmm. - It's a lot more to it. - It's a lot more to it, exactly. And I think also from the perspective of keep motivated in difficult times, it's always important to keep your end goal in mind. As you said, bringing innovative medicine to patient is your goal. Keep that purpose every day in your day-to-day life to motivate yourself in difficult times. - And obviously the patient is our North Star. And we remember that there's, we've all have people in our close families or friends that have unfortunately had illnesses and know the benefit of important medicines. And that's what drives us. That's what drives Janssen. And that's where it drives the ecosystem here in Boston. - Yeah, I think that's not better. You said it well said. (laughing) - Amen. So with that, I would just want to thank you. Thank you, Gary, so much for being here with us. And thank you all for listening.