Janelle Monáe: We Should Thank Our Exes (FBF)

(swoosh) (laughing) - What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy. - Janelmo, may welcome to Call Her Daddy. - Thank you so much for having me. - I'm, first of all, I'm just so excited to meet you. I'm a huge fan of all your work. I was listening to your music on my way here and I'm like, okay, you are giving sexual, sensual fun. - Oh, you guys. - It gives all the vibes your album is amazing. I'm so happy to have you here. - Oh, thank you so much for having me. - Of course, of course. - I'm a big fan of your show. - Thank you. - Of your experience, rather. So I was really happy when I found out we were gonna do this. So thank you. - Okay, tell me how your summer's going. You were on vacation. Where were you? Let us pretend we were there with you. - Please. I'm like, can we all just go on vacation for the whole summer? Come on, everybody. Everybody, let's do this. Let's all agree that summers are for vacations. - Paid for about the government. - I love this energy. Paid for by the government. - We're gonna like manifest it here now. Because it's like, when you were younger, I feel like summers were always vacation 'cause off of school, but when you become an adult, nothing is fun anymore. We're like, we need to go on vacation. Okay, so where were you? - Okay, so I was in Abiza. Abiza. - Abyspan. - Okay. - And then I stayed there for probably like five or six days, which was like an experience. Like it is a party place. So we did not go to sleep. I went with like 10 of my other friends and we didn't go to sleep till like seven in the morning. Every morning, okay, and it was a night. - Right. - But it was so fun. It was that, that uj uj music. I kind of like uj uj, but I need like some hip hop, some mixed in with it. But it was so fun. The sunsets were beautiful. And then the second portion of the vacay was Jamaica. - I've never been. - Ocho rios. Beautiful people. The food, the chicken patties. The beef patties, the shrimp curry. The plantains. I had at least 152 plantains. - What? - One by one. - Oh. - The water. - I was just saying that, I'm like, I'm there with you. - It was like, it was heaven. So I will say, I'm sort of mentally still there. - It's okay, we can keep a chill. We're on vacation this is summer. Like, we're just gonna relax today, okay? - It's relaxed. And it's so interesting that you say like, as kids growing up, it just reminded me like, I didn't take vacations as a kid. - Okay. - I think that's why I'm so adamant about it now. I didn't, you know, my parents worked a lot and we didn't get the opportunity to go outside of Kansas. So I didn't take my first vacation until really my first album came out. - And now, I deserve this. - I'm making it for last time. - As you should, that's phenomenal. I feel like when I go on trips with my friends, there's someone in the friend group. That's like the planner, that's like the reservations and the itinerary person. And then there's people that are more like chill and just going with the flow. Who are you in the friend group? - Oh my God. I'm the one actually sending out the group text. Like dinner, I could be at the club, it could be four in the morning. I'm like, lunch is gonna be served at 2 p.m. Breakfast for anybody between nine and noon. Dinner's gonna be eight. Like I love making me itineraries. I'm that friend. - You're the dream though. - I'm, yeah. Like people are like, "Janeel, why are you doing?" And I just, I don't know. I just love curating experiences. I grew up actually, throwing parties with my best friends, middle school, six grades, seventh grade. We would rent out this location in one of our friends, neighborhood sort of white building. And we would charge people a dollar to get in. And I would hide in the bathroom 'cause I didn't know who was gonna come. I had so much anxiety around it. And then once we would get packed, my friends would come underneath the stall because I locked myself in the bathroom. They'd be like, "It's packed, come out, come out bitch. Get out, get out, get out." And so I've just always loved curating experiences for people. - I mean, I think that's a great trait in quality to have. I feel like that makes a lot of sense of what I wanted to talk to you about today is obviously your new album, The Age of Pleasure is Out. And while I was listening to it, I'm like, "You have such a specific great vibe that's very infectious, which I love." And I'm curious, like, are you currently in your Age of Pleasure? Have you always been like, and what is Age of Pleasure to you? - Ooh, that's a great question. - Yeah. I wasn't always in my Age of Pleasure. I've been an Age of Fear, Age of Anxiety, Age of. Just worry, a fight, you know, fighting back again, and systems that seek to oppress folks like myself and the people that I love and centering that. And with this album, which I actually don't even call an album, I say that it is a soundtrack to a lifestyle. It's a lifestyle, you know, we live this. I wrote this project for my friends and for me, and I was just like, "If we fuck with it, that's all I care about." So I would throw parties at my house with my friend to own this party collective called Everyday People. And if I knew we were gonna be having and hosting them on a Saturday, that Monday and Tuesday, we would go into the studio and we would write like two to three songs that would work in the DJ's playlist. I wouldn't tell anybody it was me. I would not like make a big thing about it, and I would be very nervous, like, "Oh my God, oh my God, "or people gonna sit down." Because if people sat down, it was not gonna go on the album. If people were not shazammon, it wasn't going on the album. And so every song that you hear, all of my friends, all of the people who were with us celebrating in this safe space, they are responsible for the songs making the album. - That takes a lot of confidence, but also just like self-awareness, to be like, "I'm gonna play my friends my songs. "They're gonna have no fucking idea, it's me." And watch, let's see if they vibe with it. So like every single, 'cause I was thinking, when I was just sitting to champagne shit, I was like, "Okay, this is a vibe." I would listen to this getting ready with my friends, getting ready to go out. But then I'm wondering, so you're sitting there being like, do they like it? And then you're like, "Check, that's going on the soundtrack." - Yeah, I'm like, "How do people move?" Okay. - Shit. - I saw some people shazamming, and then some people would be like, "Wait, is this, but I never would confirm, I would go hide "and be like, having somebody else tell me what's going on." But yeah, as an artist presenting anything before the world gets it, for that first time, I talked a lot of my artists friends, and we're all like, it is one of the most scary things ever. Scary feelings to have, because it comes from such a pure place when we create, and for it not to be accepted, you don't know, you take it, but for me, I was like, I'm ready, I'm okay, I had to heal some shit, 'cause some of that is attached to just rejection issues, abandonment issues, like people don't like my stuff, that could go down to the root of an issue that you just need to fix. And I definitely used a portion of this pandemic to sort of work on that, and to get to my own traumas that I had to heal, and to get to a place where I was like, wait, I've been really centering fighting so much that I don't even know where my life is like, outside of that, who am I? You know, I talk, like, who am I outside of the fight? You know, who am I? And so I had to sit with myself and ask myself, and you know, when I think about the word pleasure, there is no pleasure without feeling safe. I didn't always feel safe. That's so, I appreciate you sharing that because I, one, can relate in terms of like putting something creatively out there and being extremely nervous to see obviously, like, are people gonna like it? On top of that, obviously, you infusing parts of you with your sexuality and race and growing up and your experiences, like, that's like a really vulnerable moment to be infusing something into a work of art, and then, like, fingers crossed, hoping people like it, you kind of have to slowly be really good with yourself to be able to know, like, sure, I can like, perfect my craft a little bit more, but down to the core, like, if people don't like it, I'm still gonna be okay with myself. And that must take time, though. - Exactly. - It does. It takes a lot of unlearning. - Yeah. - It takes a lot of, um, fucking with yourself, you know, and, and, like, I have to say, like, you have to be like, I fuck with me, you know? Yeah, okay, somebody doesn't like a song that I made, but that doesn't make me a bad songwriter. That doesn't make me a bad artist, that doesn't mean that I should just throw away my whole career, you know, and you have to just understand that sometimes we're not always in the same space that we can take in, you know, take in the message or the energy that an artist is trying to put out. And, um, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just like, okay, this didn't resonate with you. Okay, but I don't know. don't give you that power over me. You're not more powerful. Your thoughts about my art are not more powerful than my thoughts about my art. - Yeah, it's so real what you're saying too, because even when I was listening to you say, I was fighting for so much of my life, and when I'm again I get out of this stage, that's also the beauty of art, is it will come to it when you're ready. Your music would have sounded so different in your fighting stages, and then when you're like, I fucking love myself, I'm more clear on who I am, I'm more secure in certain things that were like eating me alive, maybe when I was younger and going through it, and you can tell, like this album, it makes you smile, it makes you feel yourself, it makes you just like want to live. And I don't know if that sounds corny, but like, it's back. - No, thank you. - No, it's really beautiful. - Thank you so much for sharing. - Yeah, every moment of your soundtrack felt very thoughtful and put together, and it is a story. So I just, I'm a creative person, so I really respect you, and it's great. - Thank you, I wanted to focus on feeling too. I think feeling is what music gives us. It makes us feel, it makes us want to dance, it makes us want to party, it makes us want to cry, it makes us want to feel ourselves and feel sexy, have sex, all those things, it's such a powerful energy, and the fact that it's a feeling that I had, that I felt like, man, this makes me feel good, knowing that that makes you feel, and we are just meeting each other. That's such, I think that's such a beautiful exchange, so thank you so much. - Of course. It's interesting, you kind of mentioned this earlier, and I want to talk about it. I know you've talked about going to therapy and working on yourself, and I know you're at a great place in your life, and you know, the age of pleasure, but let's go back a little bit. What is the biggest part of yourself you had to heal in order to be who you are sitting here today? - Oh, wow. You know, one of the things that I had to do was, again, deal with my rejection and abandonment, sort of trauma, where did that start from? You know, my dad and I, who were like this now, were super close, but my dad struggled with addiction, growing up, and so he was in and out of my life, and so there were just times where I didn't know if he was really gonna come and pick me up. You know, I just, the trust wasn't there. I felt let down. There were, you know, moments that that happened all the way up until, you know, high school, and other things that happened. So I had to go back to those times that were painful, that those times that I just had to forgive my dad. I was like, I have to forgive you. You were struggling with drug addiction. You were not the best version of yourself, and now that you are, we get to make up for that. We get to make up for that time. And as I healed that, and I talked to him about it, a lot changed for me. As I forgave him, I forgave my own self. For spending so many years, you know, in that dark space and connecting that to my art, you know, if I thought that I had done something wrong, you know, why wasn't he showing up for me? And so when you go and you, in the back of your head or thinking that you're doing something wrong, that your own dad isn't around, if in your art you feel like people are not liking what it is that you're doing, or they're judging you or whatever, it's so all, it's intertwined, you know, the feeling of like them leaving you, like your dad left you, you never want to feel that. And so I had to get to a place where I was, I understood what that was, and I had to let go, and I had to be okay with knowing that there's nothing wrong with me if folks don't want to come to my party. You know, even me hiding in the bathroom, they don't, they didn't want to come to my party, okay? That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with me. My dad, it wasn't a, nothing wrong with me while my dad wasn't around. He was struggling, he was battling. And people are battling so many things. People are into different things that perhaps what you're doing doesn't necessarily align with it, or they just plain might not like it, and that's okay, but do you like you? - Mm-hmm. I think it's so interesting when you start to connect to your childhood and how your parents raised you, and you know, what trauma did you go through? When you don't deal with it, there's just like this anger in you, or there's this like resentment, and there's just a part of you, even if you don't want to label that, like there's just something in you that you feel, like you haven't resolved, and a lot of times we don't have the perspective of kids of like, oh, like this wasn't intentional that my dad was doing this to neglect me and make me feel abandoned, but it happened. And so two things can be true, right? Like he wasn't trying like inflict pain on you. He was going through something but it affected you. - But it did, yeah. - And until you go through all of that, it's going to influence the way that you move in life. - Yeah, that you see life. - But even you saying it's interesting, like it affected your art, I'm interested to know how did it affect your personal relationships with this theme of abandonment within you? - It affected them for sure. Yeah, it was just like trust issues. You know, breakups were intense. 'Cause they just mirrored that, but now like there were moments where, you know, I was dating someone, and you know, we broke up and I just was like, I will never talk to this person again. The way they made me feel, I will never talk to them again. And after I started to go through therapy and I have an emotional support coach that I talked to, after at which by the way, therapy, like we're benefiting from therapy. I just really wish that it was free for every person around the world. I really, really, really do wish that there was a fund that everybody could access the way they could have therapy, they could have somebody to talk to and work through. I do believe that we will be in a much better shape as a community, as a nation, as a world. So I just wanted to say that 'cause I feel like, damn, I wish everybody could experience these things. So I was like, I will never talk to this person again, and after I went through, you know, understanding and getting to the root of like my rejection abandonment, trauma, you know what I did? I thanked the person who I was in a relationship within it and it did not work out for us. I thanked them, I said, you know what? In my emotional support coach said that I was gonna do that. It's like you are going to thank this person because you know what this person did for you? They forced you to deal with something that you were not going to deal with. They pushed you to go back to the root of the problem. You were not gonna do it, you were moving. You were too busy moving, you didn't have time. But that relationship, the ending of that specific relationship forced that and I literally called that person and I thanked them. I said, thank you so much. You have no idea, like I was really walking around here hurt and you forced me to like, you know, and so they started sharing things with me. They were just like, I just wasn't ready. I was confused myself. I did not trust, it was going so well for us. I'm so used to chaos that I didn't, I felt like this was not gonna end how I wanted it to end. I'm also dealing with rejection issues. So we just kind of healed through each other and that, and it helped me in my other relationships. I was like, here are the things that I was doing because of my trauma. When I'm free from that trauma, I'm like a really, really, really beautiful partner to have. And it just helped me to understand how I want to show up for my future partners. (upbeat music) - It's not so interesting when you meet people in life that obviously again, you needed to work on yourself to be able to have that hindsight and to like, wait, that was so helpful. But most of the time in life, in romantic partnerships, I feel like specifically, you can get so hurt by them, but that's not your family. So you're like, I can walk away, but you're always gonna learn something so incredible. And if you can get past that hurt initially, we really should be thanking all of our exes. 'Cause it's like, even if you cheated on me, I have partners in the past that I had so much resentment and anger and I look back and I'm like, there's so much I learned about myself and my resilience and my worth. And it's like, had that not happen. Of course, there's moments in life where I wish no harm on anyone, but certain themes that you can take, find the good part of it rather than feeling so negative and angry, 'cause Becca's guess us nowhere. - Yeah. - That's interesting to hear you talk about how you connected with that person. At first being like, I'll never talk to you again. And then, wait a second, thank you. - Thank you. Like, fucking, thank you. And I will say though, I mean, I know it's like, sometimes with exes 'cause I also had an ex that was just like, man, I wish I really had this new version of you. Like, when we were dating, I wish that I was around. That was the person you showed me and I was just like, yeah, I agree, but listen, what do you want me to say? Like, I wasn't ready, I was growing, I needed to grow and, you know, I'm sorry, you know? True and you know, it's interesting that I've had I remember an X I had kind of similar to that, but you also wonder like But if I was this new version of myself we probably wouldn't have been together Because you were attracted to me then we ended up that's our reason right we were both toxic as hell Mm-hmm as hell right we both were toxic and So like you can wish Yeah, it wouldn't you would we I would definitely would not this new version I'm not dated right you know that that that that person I love you. Yes, I love you But there's just no way that I could put myself back Into that sort of like chaos. Yeah, yeah, and it's like again It's like you're both growing so for him to be even able to see your growth. Yeah phenomenal love it amazing But we probably needed to go on our own ways to actually get whole and good and deal with ourselves and maybe that's just not the right fit But at the time it was yeah, and so we can appreciate each other's growth But yeah, gonna grow together. Yeah, we grew together and and that's a beautiful thing I always want the best for people like even if we're not together as a human that also help contextualize breakups It's like even though we're not together. I don't want anything negative to happen you I don't want you to I don't want anything back to happen to you as a human I want the best for you and if that means that it's not with me at that time or at that season Then so be it. Yeah, yeah, if someone's listening to this and it's like wow. I really relate to you Maybe they had someone in their life that didn't show up for them and was constantly you know neglecting to be there and show up what did actually working through That childhood trauma like look like for you because I can see some people like Do you know how do I begin to like repair this like where do I start? Ooh I mean like I said I just wish everybody could afford therapy so if but if you can Try to get you a good therapist that you can just talk freely to that can help you like and don't lie to them You know don't lie be transparent tell the truth have make sure that they they're pushing you and You need to not be afraid to do the work. It's gonna be painful. There's been a lot of tears a lot of crying a lot of just like confusion, but just know that you're growing Like you know better right? You're no you're you're understanding you a lot more and sometimes that that feels Confusing to your body to your cells because you're literally being like Rewrouted like the way that your mind is is is being re rewired So it's gonna feel uncomfortable, but just stay the course because I promise you that if you do the work There is going to be you're gonna be like I never thought I would see the day I literally never thought that I would be this person. It's like I planned I sort of planned it out But to live it out and to be living what I dreamt about doing and and the freedom in which I move because it's not That like you're not gonna deal with issues and problems and things like that But the way that I'm so solid with myself now. I didn't know You know I I I was free, but but their levels to it. Yeah, their levels to it So just stay the course and you'll reach the next level. I love that advice because even hearing you talk. It's like We all reach a point in life when we haven't dealt with our shit We're just starts coming up more and more relationships are failing friendships are having issues There's things at work like it just starts to creep up. Yeah, and those are usually the moments where in a good way Like you cannot deny you need to address it and I love that you said it's so fucking uncomfortable Yeah, but you got to do the work because then you want to be uncomfortable But you're going against something that you literally have been living this way your whole life Yes, so you're going like against the grain you're going against yourself your future self is fighting your Past version old version of yourself. Yeah, it's like looper But different right right anyway You mentioned now that you have a good relationship with your father and I can imagine there are people really relating to you today also of like how did you know it was time for that you were going to be able to forgive and have an actual relationship with your dad I Wanted it you got to want it too. Sometimes you're just like I don't really want a relationship just because you birth or helped bring me into this world like as a person you can be like I don't really want this and that's totally fine I think I wanted it because my dad is cool like my dad also had a music career But drugs got in the way of that and so me and him can talk music he understands like all my favorite artists or his favorite artists When I put out lipstick lover all of the art that that I'm doing my dad supports it like he's like I want you to know as your dad I think what you're doing is brave is sick as fuck. I love you. I want you to know I got your back like as a black man in this Living in this country. I'm supporting you my queer non-binary You know artistic daughter like I'm here for you and I knew he always had that sort of that sort of where I gave both my parents are like Shows like they could each have their own TV show and people they would not care about me They're like your mom and your dad like you know, they're not together because they're very much so alike in many ways You know, they're super like flamboyant and their personalities can take up a room But good sweet people So what my dad always knew that like When it was time to take risks that was gonna be the person that was gonna Affirm me and I and I and I wanted that and I needed that and also for him I wanted to give him another another opportunity post like Being sober to know me, you know to know me. I think I think that that For both of us we needed that like I needed to have the support of of my dad and I felt like for him to have been because he'd also gone to prison So he had been locked away for years and I was like I Want him to come out sober and to know what it's like to receive love for me Was that not guilty? How old were you and your dad went to prison? I'm timeless. So yeah, it doesn't matter I was alive at some point. Yeah, I know no, but I was this was in on and off, you know middle school elementary school High school. Yeah, like always you're so successful in so many different areas like you're an author You're an actor. You're a singer. It's insane how talented you are and I'm thinking again It's always like we never know what someone goes through like yeah you rising to fame having your father You know having these struggles like Were you ever just what was he still struggling when you first came up in started? Yeah, yeah, well no, he was that's when he sort of got got clean So that was great. That was good. I needed that right at that time Because I was gonna say like damn like Everyone probably seeing you in the tablets and everything like having all this success and yet You want to repair relationship with your father because there's nothing everyone can relate when you do something so good at work Or at school or when you want to call your parents Yeah, and you because you know there's no one that's gonna be more proud of you Yeah, and so I appreciate you sharing that a little bit because it's like yes You have all this success and but Family and again when I say family I always make sure to clarify like I don't care if they're blood like you don't have to be with people that Abuse your whatever whatever you consider who your family is to be able to Repair relationships if you want it. Yeah, it is kind of beautiful because you get to share your life with people that love you and support you And there's no jealousy. It's just like we fucking love you like your mom outside the town shows me. Yeah Yeah, oh my god. Oh, it's really cute You are very private about your dating life. Yeah How have you decided to make that decision in this crazy Hollywood world that we live in I just did I was like This watching observing I was like, you know the people that actually are more private seem more happy to me They just seemed more happy, you know because it's like you don't have to worry about you know Anybody seeing your partner Over here and been like oh, they're not they're they they assume That if you're not with them and they're seeing with somebody else that you broke up and now you got to go answer that Question you have to go do that and perhaps maybe later on in life. I'll open up a little more but for now I love having I love pretend and it really is for the protection of of them. Yeah I I don't want them to you know because I can handle sort of like Popper rights you whatever it's annoying sometimes sometimes it's fun I love messing with them whatever But I never want anybody that I'm dating to ever feel pressure Because they didn't ask for it. Yeah, you know they didn't ask for it. So I just like to keep peace Yeah, and in harmony and no expectation from the public to know our every move. I Think that's really healthy and I think in a weird way I do always talk about on my show now like I feel like people now more than ever can kind of relate to a lack of privacy Even if you have 500 followers like we have Accessibility now to post as much as we want and I think there are people that feel Societal pressure to like post my partner with me because it's like there's almost like social currency that comes with like being this It couple and having whether in college or high school like this is everywhere now where people are feeling pressured to Prove something on the internet and when you can actually step back from it I'm not saying don't post on the internet But like try to find a balance within yourself. But why are you actually doing this? Why are you doing certain things is it just to get the photo to prove something to people right? It's just it's not as healthy Yeah, you know like live some type of privacy is really good for yourself because then you can also be with yourself Like do I like this person or do I like how I'm doing this or why even want to do this? Right kind of have to like yeah, just doing it for the gram. Yeah. No seriously I think because it's the norm to people to be like well you must post your kids and who you're dating and you know It's sort of like that's the norm these days Definitely I don't feel like anybody should feel pressure and I think that if you are in a relationship where they're like if you don't post me We're done. I've had like people we were just talking about this when we're on vacay and there was a question like Are would you be upset if your partner did not post you on social media? Mm-hmm and there were a lot of mixed questions I mean answers, but I was just like we have to talk about that first and foremost and if We agree that we want to keep things private than no But also like if my love is defined by a post You don't post me enough on social media like I really need to understand my own damn like Priorities in life is that really Necessary for me. So I just think it's like for me. It's not um, I do think people should have conversations around it prior so that there are no expectations and You know because it could hurt somebody's feeling too though if they feel like you're trying to hide them I but that's deeper. That's like y'all need to really Yeah, I need to really work through some things. Yeah, no, that's true because I'm thinking about it Like I feel like there are some people that also now because social media has been like very You know prevalent for the past I guess like 10 something years People may have been in relationships where someone was Extremely adamant about posting them and they almost found like when we're good he posts me when we're not he doesn't post me So when you go to your next relationship I bet there are some people that have like a lingering feelings about like well Why aren't you posting me and someone could little bit like because I don't think we need to I love you We're sitting here together. Yeah, it's this better than us taking a selfie Right, so also check in with yourself of like are you comparing yourself to your friends or your past relationships? Get on the same page as your current partner Yes, they may not be being shady at all. They're actually like no, I fucking love you And I don't feel like we need that or I want to protect you from you know all of the scrutiny or the you know Just just things like that online world. It's its own matrix and yeah, you know, it's it's tough It's wild. What are you like in a relationship? Are you romantic? Are you dominant like what's the vibe over there? That was also we played this game called oh god. I'm gonna I gotta get to get the name of it Actually, it's a black guy who made the game card game So it's not a lot of us in that space So I really really have to get the name of it. Oh my god. It's the anyway one of the cards I link it in the description when you if you call your team send it I got it of course, okay, but the one of the questions was like what would your X say about you And we were just like everybody was like oh wow, that's a good one. I feel like now I am Let me think I mean because you know it's like into the question when the question made me be like Well, this is what I think about myself, but what if that isn't what they thought about right? Like okay, of course, I'm gonna say glowing reviews about me You know or maybe like a couple things that I need to work on but you know could have been some other thing So for me if I was being honest in a relationship I mean, I think I used to be a very like hard to know if I really loved them Sort of person like it was hard to get to my heart Because I had just been hurt and I hadn't really again dealt with sort of that trauma or of Someone what it would feel like if somebody leaving me I never wanted anybody to leave Um me and if they did I didn't want them to ever feel like Really loved you, you know because like if you if I really told you that I really loved you and you we still didn't work Then like wow what a stab in the heart, right? Yeah, but now having gone to this new space I'm a bit communicator I You know believe in evolution Evening your partnerships and even if you started out one way I'm always open to us growing And I want to make sure that as we grow individually and as you know together I've also been in polyamorous relationships as well and I you know know what it's like to be with multiple partners So it's very important that you know we're communicating in real time about our feelings and if things are coming up Like if if one person feels like okay I'm having feelings of jealousy or I need some more time with both of you or you know How do we you know if we if we need to like work on some things I like to know that and I always welcome you know feedback I'm that type of person like I like I don't I don't ever want to be in a relationship where I'm Thinking we're good and we're not yeah, like you're wondering like like just let me know yeah because I Could probably adjust we could adjust perhaps it was a misunderstanding or perhaps like oh You know, maybe you thought you knew me or you knew how you you don't know how much I love you Yeah, I need to be more expressive in in those things and So I think I'm a verse I love it. So I can be dominant sub Like you know, I'm not binary as well, so I can go with the I can go with the flow about things I love it meaning like I don't I don't just consider myself Like to be boxed in is like this type of partner like sometimes you need me to be more like water Okay, I need to be more like water You need me to be more like a rock for us. Okay. I'll be more like a rock for us How did you know? Was there like a conversation or did you just know the moment when you first had your first polyamorous relationship? Like how did you know that you were comfortable with that dynamic? Well, I was already in a relationship and and the person who was attracted To me was also attracted to my partner and so they made it very clear and We just made it work. Okay. Would you would you continue to have those type of relationships again? Like are you still interested in that or has anything changed? Sure. I'm open to love you know, I'm like I Think you know, I love going to weddings and you know, there are certain traditions that I love and Congratulations. I know you're engaged So I honor love and I think they'll love comes in different Different variations and that is what I love about polyamory is it just shows us like just in the same way Like I don't have just one best friend I have multiple best friends and I love y'all you know, we love each other We can all hang out. I don't just love one parent. I Don't just love one on it like I love all of you and and In relationships, you know, I think when intimate relationships I think that if we can talk about What we need and what works for all of us and I'll tell you like It takes a lot of unlearning yeah because we're conditioned especially in this society that this is what a union looks like this is what You know, it's two people in a relationship, you know It's like so you're you're fighting against or not fighting against but you're constantly having having to unlearn The traditional way of what love looks like and so I love to By being my authentic self and us being our authentic selves challenge that notion Yeah, I love that because what is very frustrating and I love having conversations like this on my show because You're right. We were all raised with something that was like this is the norm and it's like I'm so happy finally I mean, there's so much work to be done but like even with sexuality and you know fluidity It's just like what like it's very frustrated I think for people that see it so clearly like let everyone do what they want to do And then people that are still so stuck in the way that they want things to have been done for Thousands of years prior when you speak about polyamory like I can imagine There are people that are so judgmental of even that word like How do you even do that and like yeah so small-minded and it's also like half the people that are saying that are speaking from a place of insecurity Because I've seen people do it and be like isn't he cheating on his wife and like it's like there's so much judgment when when it something really Frustrate someone I always believe like there's something internally that like it's getting you going because why do you care so much? Yeah, but how did you I'm assuming at some point you have dealt with judgment and to anyone listening That's also maybe like going against the norm which fuck the norm. Let's just get everything normal Yeah, how did you deal with that? Yeah always always always people are intrigued people think you know I think all sorts of things but I think education is important I mean we have the internet people can look things up and I mean my close friends are super supportive You know certain family members have been like hmm But for the most part my my circle of people that I have around have been supportive even if they have questions and they wonder like okay All right, because also people are trying to figure out well, hmm Is that what I need or what we need or? Because I've definitely been cheating on my significant other for a very long time, but what if after all we just Needed a third we needed somebody else, you know that that loved us and we love them To to to be a part of our union. Yeah, you know people are trying and people are scared I understand that too some people are scared to go against tradition and you know some people come from conservative Environments I came from you know conservative Baptist Background where I was taught to fear everything you know even getting into the music industry. I was taught To just fear you know Don't be like this artist or don't be like that or you know It's just been a lot of unlearning and and I get that and I think I think though for me I I have to know that this is my life here on earth. I wasn't put here to To follow every rule. I was I was put here to help rewrite them. Yeah, I really appreciate you talking about that because it's Just such a prevalent topic that's still like is we again We have so much movement that we need to keep doing but I think having conversations like this Yeah, I'm curious to know like how did you decide obviously being a public figure to speak openly about your sexuality? Oh, I don't know decide it's sort of like decided for me because my art is a direct reflection of who I am You know I I have Metropolis which is my first EP. I have a lot of independent work I put out before that and then I did the arch Android my first full-length album sweet Then I did the electric lady dirty computer and all the way now to the age of pleasure and and all those projects that have come out I Discovered that I mean I knew when I was a child that I was attracted To not just boys but to women and to energies. I knew that and because of my sort of conservative Baptist upbringing it wasn't welcomed. I suppressed my sexuality. I suppressed my sensuality I suppressed so much of me because I didn't feel safe and so once I got to a place where okay I know for sure for sure that You know I am I am attracted to to to you know these energies I'm gonna honor that and with each project you could you can hear me and feel me getting more brave You know I created The Android Cindy Mayweather who is representative of in my work who's representative of the other you know the queer person the Black person the non binary person trans all of all of us who are pushed to the margins of society and so I use that as a form of like a form of coping a coping mechanism until I was brave enough to actually say it And I think I was always dropping hints and I was getting more brave and you know less afraid um And then finally Because also I was in a relationship in in what some would say You know it was a lot of things like you know understanding you know polyamory is was something that I wanted to explore Well, if you're already in a relationship you have to go have conversations with that person's family Well, what does that mean for you guys and to know so I could not talk publicly about certain things because they impacted my real Everyday life You know what I'm saying like when I got off the stage I would also have to go see These communities that I was a part of and like if they heard about it through You know any other thing outside of like me saying it then what does that mean? And I just wasn't ready to have those sorts of conversations And so I guess to answer your question like you know, I just got brave over time and Once I also felt like I had community because the albums and the art and music What it also does is the signals like hey, I'm out here I'm out here and then you meet people who come to your shows and you meet other artists and people other human too like Or like oh identify with that or I fuck with that and then we become friends and you have a community Now that supports you. Yeah, that sees you that even if your family you were born into Doesn't support your see you you have support. Yeah, so once I felt supported and I felt safe enough that's when I started to become even more brave and I um I started to be courageous in the way that I started to live my life and I think right now what I am doing I've done this privately is that I'm honoring all of me I'm not closing off you know my sensuality anymore. I'm not closing off my sexuality my polyamory If you listen to only have eyes 42, you know, that's honoring that sort of union Um, if you're listening to hot hot from the age of pleasure or champagne shit or even float. Yeah, you know You know, I I'm feeling much lighter now. I'm float. I had to let some things go um To get to this place and fear of not being except it was one of them and once I got over that hump Everything started to change for me Community when you were saying that like I hope everyone listening if you're sitting listening to this you're watching this in your room And you haven't been able to fully embrace your sexuality whether it's people around you you're afraid how they're gonna accept you like There are so many people out there that will love you and like are so having the same feelings as you And so just don't limit yourself to just the people that you've been assigned as Absolutely absolutely. It gets better. Yeah, as you start walking whenever you're ready don't feel pressure too. Yeah, because I mean there were moments where um, I felt the pressure to talk like interviewers with they would just speculate based on my appearance because I was wearing a suit They were like hmm You're lesbian like that's what I would get you're a lesbian and You know as I was trying to discover who I was and I did not identify it with being a lesbian I You know and and I had lesbian friends. I love my lesbian family But like people would say certain things and try to force me to out what I was What if you're not lesbian then what are you? Yeah, and so I wasn't ready So don't feel also feel pressured to talk about your sexuality. It is a private It can be as private or as public as you want it to be For me it was seeping out into my art so much that like I'm like, yeah, this is this is me. Yeah, this is who I am and I wanted to also free a lot of people who were in their rooms Who could be in their rooms right now listening like You have family you have a church even outside of the the church that you went to if they just own you like There is a big church around the world with people who will affirm you people who are like you Your identity is not new Like it's been happening. We're here. We're showing up for each other and I love you. I love you When I was researching um, I I read somewhere you don't refer to opening up to others about your sexuality as coming out But rather coming in Can you explain that I didn't actually come up with that terminology of coming in. I just thought it resonated with me more Um, a guy by the name of John I forgot his last name, but I heard him say it and he he's a queer black man And I heard him and I was like that's exactly what it is. Yeah, it is bringing people Bringing people into our world I'm letting you in on who I am versus like You guys are the norm and I'm just like hi. I'm out here like no I'm letting you in to my world which is sacred Which should be respected and appreciate it, most certainly not apologetic about it. - I love that. You're so right. 'Cause it's like, I'm letting you in on who I am. I don't, you don't deserve me. I don't have to come out to you. I don't owe you anything. - Exactly. - Like when I feel comfortable, I'll let you in. - Like come clean. - Yeah. - You're, come out of the closet. - Yeah. - I'm sorry. I've been here. You just must not have seen me. - Mm-hmm. - Or, I'm not even you must not have seen me. You must think that you and your, or you know what, let's not even talk about it. - No, I was gonna go down a whole stream. - No, no, no, trust me. I could do, I could do. - Yeah. - How about this? Do you have a mantra you come back to when it comes to people who actively do not agree with the way that you live? - Ooh. Yeah, I do. I have so much. I wish I had my phone with me. But I think it comes down to power, you know? I think like when you give your power up to folks, like people's opinions have more power over you than how you feel about you, that's I think where things take that turn, where the depression sets in, where the constant need for approval comes in. And I think I'm a powerful ass motherfucker, you know? Really. Just as you're powerful, we're all powerful, right? We all hold gifts that we have. And I think that, you know, again, how I think about myself has to be more powerful than someone who is trying to take me down through their negativity, who is trying to oppress me through their fear. My power and my love for myself is greater than that. - My drop. - Yeah. - My drop. What is something when it comes to dating and love that you know now, that you wish you knew when you were younger? - Ooh. - Sheesh. - Man. I would say, I wish I had discovered vibrators a long time ago. Like honestly, it's so fun to experience that with your partner. - It's phenomenal. - It's so great. It's like what going to the sex shop? Like I remember when I first went, see again, when you come from those sort of like conservative background, a sex shop, I was full sunglasses on, like do not have me in here. Oh my God. What am I, oh my God, please, nobody take photos of me. Like I did not know. - Right. - I did not know the world of vibrators. I did not know the clitoral stimulation that you and your fun y'all can have with one. You know, it doesn't necessarily have to be penetration. Life changing. - Right. How about you? - I remember, I didn't have one in my friend bought me one for my birthday in college. And I remember like the first time I tried something was the back of my electric toothbrush. - And I was like, - I ain't going front. - No. - The electric toothbrushes, if you forget, just go buy your brand new one. - It's laps. - It's got me through. It's got me through. - It is a life saver. And so I felt the same way though of my friend got me my first one and then I was like, oh my God, I'd never have to have sex again. Like this is amazing. - Right. - Like it just allowed me to recognize that I hold the power of my own orgasm. And I don't need someone else to make me feel amazing. I can do it myself because being taught, we grow up and it's just like the men will do this for you. And I'm like, why am I going to wait for a motherfucker to give me orgasm? - Exactly. - Don't wait for a man or anyone to give you, you can do it yourself. So I remember I felt the same way in New York. I remember the first sex shot I went to with my friend. I was not famous, but I was horrified just being like, I just can't make eye contact. And I think that just comes from like shame of like we're not normalizing like exploring your sexuality and enjoying especially as women, like enjoying sex, loving sex, being connected with your body. And I think it's so important that we start to have those conversations at younger ages obviously in a safe way. But like especially for young girls, you just start to like feel shame and like you're doing something wrong. And that's why so many women I truly believe like we have such a hard time in the beginning, like figuring out what works for us and knowing how to like get off because we were like, it was basically like don't touch yourself. You're a slut. And it's like, oh, what? - Or you're a deviant while like touching yourself gross. You know, like if it was not you go get a boyfriend and y'all wait, but don't have sex actually until you're married. So go marry to half sex. Like I have cousins who actually married women just to have sex because they were just like God won't let me do that. - It's a lot. It's a lot. And I will always just like, you know, say like my heart goes out to those of us who have clitoruses and just not just those of us who are with clitoruses, even you know, for those of us who have penises or whatever it is, the pleasure that we can give ourselves like how that was stripped away from us. I just hope that we can reconnect again with our bodies and reclaim our bodies. That's the space that I'm in. Like I am reclaiming my sensuality, my sexuality, my pleasure, like unapologetically, like I'm not apologizing for talking about it, for taking time to myself to make up for lost times. I mean, I think I could have avoided a lot of just even sexual interactions with people who I didn't really like, but I just was like, well, this is the only way that I can feel less shame about sex is if I do it with this person, but like that leads to so much confusion sometimes if you don't really, really, really like this person and they don't really, really like you and it's a whole thing. And so I think you actually avoid, you have less stress when you take matters into your own hands, literally. - Absolutely. Okay. Everyone listening today, we are entering our era of the art of pleasure. Okay. - We're taking it into our own hands. - Yes, we are. - I know we've been kind of like essentially talking about it this whole episode because we're talking about pleasure and finding our own voices to find that pleasure, but what has been the most rewarding part of making this soundtrack for you? - Yeah. I mean, just like, you know, we're talking about it's a soundtrack to a lifestyle. And I think so many people, you know, that I'm hearing, that's why I can't wait to go on tour, I'm on tour, our first show is in Seattle, the end of August, we're on tour. So get your tickets. We have some more, a little bit more available, but they're selling out right now and I'll be on tour in North America through October 21st, the age of pleasure tour. And so to see how people are like making this their album, owning it and like with their friends, I see them just certain songs and they're like, oh my God, you're speaking to my heart. Like, I need it to hear float. I need it to give myself permission to let things go and to go into my, you know, a stage of like, what hot is talking about? Like, I look good, I look sexy, I look handsome, like non-binary folks are feeling seen, trans folks are being seen. Like the community in which I tend it for it to be and even outside of it, I think that you don't necessarily have to be a part of my community to, to, to vibe with it. I think that what it just represents is like, even in the midst of chaos, you gotta find your pleasure. You have to make time for yourself. And I actually brought you something. What? What? So here's, oh my God. Official age of pleasure. I cut mine. I was gonna say, it's so cute. No, it's so cute. You know I'm gonna do this. Like, it's so cute. I wanted to bring you to know, this is so sweet. That's shirt. And if you need another size. No, this is so good. I'll give you another one. No, I'm, can I cut it? Like you? I'm just talking to you. I'm just, but I've been staring at it and like, it's such a, it's yours. Thank you. Thank you. It's so dope. I wanted to bring you a hand. This is so good. I'm gonna bring you a hand written autographed. That's what I'm gonna say. I autographed you a copy of my book that I released in 2021 called The Memory to Librarian. Thank you so much. I'll do some rights of very computer. And yes. This is bringing the gifts. But, girl, I knew you had just got back from vacation. I did. You're getting us into our fields. We're all ready to go have sex with our song. Come on. We got a book. We got a shirt. Come on. Okay, to anyone that is like, you got to tell us what is, if you have to pick, what is your favorite song on the soundtrack? Ooh, shoot. Wow. Everyone's gonna go listen to this one. It's so okay. It varies because all of a man, I mean, I hate to say it, but it's, it's a, it's a, it's not a long album. I usually put out like, excuse me, like, double albums and with this one, I wanted you to want to replay it over and over and over again. I didn't want to, excuse me, I didn't want it to be too long because this one was just on President Barack Obama's album. song of summer only have eyes 42 for two so listen to that one I mean but I love every last song on this project I'm having a hard time like figuring out what songs we're gonna play on tour I think I might have to just play all of them I don't know but because I love I also thought about them from a live perspective and just yeah how fun it's gonna be to perform champagne she's gonna be in I don't know what songs were you vibing to I said champagne shit um is it called phenomenal I really like that one like featuring doji yeah it's a vibe we're like I don't know I really like that one like but again I it feels like it's a story that's being told and you're just like it's almost like an anthem vibe where you're just like vibing the whole time so I I agree I guess I couldn't like pick one two because it you almost have to like listen to all together like start finishing like feel it because a dry red is good the last song I love I when I was writing this album I wrote it with friends I got to give a shout out to Nate rocket wonder to Bueno to none of Coabina and also the features like some of my favorite things is just to look down and be like okay Grace Jones is literally on this album you know sister Nancy who is like bomb bomb you know we can't go anywhere at a party without hearing her Jamaican influence patra her Jamaican influence when I think about Neil Long who's an incredible actress coming and being a part of an Amarae Doji who else Fala Kuti Sun Cheyoon Kuti Horde lots of horns on this project C.K.s on this project I don't know it's just so like such a beautiful love letter to the diaspora and to to music that again has gotten us through you know a lot of the influences come from a lot of my friend who were in you know who are from Nigeria at our parties Ghana South Africa L.A. New York Atlanta you know all of us coming together and and feeling safe yeah safe enough to explore safe enough to be you know I can't thank you enough for coming call her daddy this was truly such a pleasure I'm so happy I got to sit in the same room with you and feel your energy thank you thank you you are fantastic Alex thank you so much for having me and all the beautiful work you do like I don't really love doing lots of interviews but you have a very great way of connecting human to human with folks and I'm sure people tell you that a lot but I'll just say like I feel your aura and your energy through this green and just congratulations on everything you're fantastic you're like thank you (upbeat music)