Jamie George: Where England Went Wrong

Vähemmän ruutua, enemmän elämää, Suomalaisesta kirjakaupasta löydet aina jotain inspiroivaa kehittävää ja viidyttävää vaihtoehtoja ruutuaajalle. Suomalainen kirjakauppa. Blahhain, truck! 2 minuut semmoilla. Mä hieman, mä hieman, mä hieman, joten se on kursk. - So went to the bathroom, poured all the sick down the sink. I'm still like very pissed at this stage. - I've had a lot of stick for like one in 18 months, send off. - We're definitely playing on that for 18 months, isn't it? - Fair enough I would do too. It felt like England was still trying to play a way that had been maybe more structured, controlled, risk of verse, where I felt like the theme within International Rugby was changing to more multi-phase e-cap penlase. - I think rugby in general is going that way. - Yeah, and we probably realized that a little bit too late. We were desperate to win, but we needed performance. I think for belief, for momentum, for an excitement to come back, like we needed it, and we knew it was a big week. And like France away in the Six Nations, it doesn't get as tough as that. Like that is a tough fixture under a lot of pressure. And we just went out there and got like, fuck this, fuck you, you get it. - Where would I be playing? - Lucid! - For the love of Jamie George, welcome back to the show. - Pleasure to be back. - Yeah, thanks for letting us come back to your house again. Obviously we caught up on our way to Bilbao. - Yeah, yeah. - How was it? - Well great trip, unbelievable. Snake wine, travel, comfort, got a massage, didn't we at one point? - Brilliant, yep. Went surfing with Robbo, that was an experience. - I really would've thought it was in the footage, but it's me. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, no worries. It's nice to be back in your home. It feels only like, it doesn't even feel like yesterday. It feels like minutes ago we were here. Just feel like looking around, just feel like that. - And that's nice to wear in the same clothes and stuff. - It does, yeah. - Makes a special look. - Yeah, I thought I'd do that for you. - Most apparently looks slimming, but that's why I wanted to wear T-Shirt. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - We've really, we've got like nice colours to just wear it in your own. - Settling in. - I love it, great, great. We actually meant to catch up with you originally at the day after you announced your leaving retirement tour or quite far in advance. That's how we asked for an interpreter, but you got ill, well played. There's a big media day at Top of Hot Surs and you got the ill, you even messed this kid. - Sorry bud, I'm not great. It was bad. - It was bad. - I think one of the young front rowers in the front row group, Baker Cake or something, not the Udavit. - Harvey, Harvey Beaton made a cake and we all got sick. - How'd you get sick from it? - What? - I can't wash his hands man. I don't want to think about it, but we got some good to it. - We got a lot of problems. - We got like three of us, we got ill. But it just like Tony Cake, we had a club, we had a club once, didn't we? And there was Dumpling Gate where they'd forgotten to put it like some ingredients, put it in the stew and honestly it was Jackie Kate, you're great right? But that was fucking disgusting. That's what fucked. - The worst was Christmas dinner. - No more. - Anyways, we got a full inquest. - We got a full inquest. - Big Christmas dinner mate. It's like two days before the game. - It's about three days before Christmas dinner, but three days before the game. - Big Christmas like. - That night some of the boys. - Look at that, we're in like two hours. Big break. - Big break, chairs is like pulling up the A6 mate out of the car, like throwing up. - No, that's not the Christmas dinner. - It's four o'clock in the hour. - Yes, it's a virus. - It's a virus. - It's a virus, sorry yeah. - Yeah. - Anyway, no, yes. - I wasn't. - Food hygiene. - You just act for that. - You're being a dead. - We get to chat to you all about retirement. - You, or you. - You, retirement. - Like what's being going on, your career and everything. So how comes you, what made you make the call? First of all most. And why did you decide to do it this season and announce it rather than the next, let's say? - Like I've had a lot of stick for like one in an 18 month send off. - We're definitely playing on that. - Yeah, yeah. - I don't know, fair enough I would do too. Now I just like, I'd sign, the reason why I'm like, feel like I'm ready is that I know what I'm going to do next. Like I've got a business that I run on the side. It's going really well. I'm like, I'll be 37 as the World Cup finishes. Good Stent. I've achieved way more than I ever dreamed of. Like really, really happy, really excited about what's next. Would love to stay involved in the game in some capacity. So like that's why. And then the reason for doing it early, like I just think it's like really, it's really obvious, right? Like I'm signing a one year extension. Why would I wait until like next May to like that's what Goody did. I was just like, I might as well just, it's obvious. I'm going to retire now and then hopefully get to the World Cup and then retire there. What happens though if in the words of Tyson Fury, he retires and then a shattering deal gets put in front of you, right? And Tyson's just come out of retirement. So this time let's say with February 27th, and then it was recently in Japan. Or Japan or a French club comes along and say, you know what, I want a bit of jinx after the World Cup. No good. Does he, does he, does he unretire himself? No, I've done. Like I will be very much done. And like Jamie, for the negotiating, I wouldn't really say that. I think you're, Ben, you understand like you playing in France, sort of different to a front rower playing in France mate. Well, I wouldn't play. Well, look at the talent out there. I'm not going to play in front of Baptiste Soran or Lukou or Depont. In fact, the list goes on. Where would I be playing? Lucid. Lucid. And you wouldn't want to play there mate. No, you wouldn't be like, yeah. Now, I'm like, I am like really excited. Like one of the reasons again why I was like announced early was that like I just want to enjoy the next, like I knew it myself. I've always been like very open and honest. So like I'm done. I'm going to enjoy the next, whatever it is, 14 months. Throw all of myself into it, enjoy it, take it for what it is. And like see where it takes me. In all system it, I think that's awesome because I think one of the biggest things when you do come to retirement, all you know is that contentment of like I'm done. I know I'm done. I can commit to this point, but after that I'm going to be content and done because it's a simple, sometimes you know if you, you know we were all fortunate and hopefully you'll be fortunate as well where you'll finish on your terms. Exactly how you want to do it. Injuri free and walk away from the game like we were able to do. The difference between me and being able to do that and being content and happy when looking back and going, I'm so proud I'm ready for the next thing. To career cut short, injury taking away if he was a very different feeling I think like mate, to have that acceptance and understanding is it's class to be fair because not everyone has that and it can end, you know, simple as that. It ends differently and they find it very hard to go to the next chapter. I've been very passionate for a long time about knowing what I'm going to do next and like rugby not being the be all and end all, do you know what I mean? Like I've loved what I've done. Like it's really important to me, like I'm desperate to win, but equally like if it stopped tomorrow, like I need to know what I'm going to do next and it like it does scare the life out of me when I look at some lads and they're like in the like coming as always the end of their career, no qualifications, just hoping that the game gives them something and I'm like it's not really how it works anymore. So I've been lucky like the club, especially back in the earlier days, really pushed like education, entrepreneurship, like all of that kind of thing. So like happy with it? How are you going to, when you finish what you reckon you're going to look like because I saw crews the other day and he looks like the bloke from Dallas Barles Club. He does, he's about to be key. He's like, I'm sorry about that. He's like, let me also. But that's what he signed for Saris as. Like this is the problem. He was a beekeeper. He was going to get, he put on 30 kilos in like six months. It was like crazy. I'm really as unbelievable by the way and and listeners. We will get to some deep dive about Rudby as his Christmas card, he sent out to everyone and just, Jinx, do you want to just give the listeners the pleasure exactly what was happening in this fabulous Christmas card? This is Mum's Christmas cards. He's really close with his brother. Brothers very, very close. And one year, there's a couple I think, but the one that I love the most was them sat in a tree. And there's the genuine, them sat in a tree with like cardigans on holding hands. But they're like 25 years old. It was in 2019. Which grounds are right back to you? On the Jamie George retirement tour, which grounds are you and clubs you'd come forward to playing one last time and maybe never seeing again? Like genuinely, mate, there's so many. I've always loved playing a World of Road. Frank and Garland has always been quite close to me because my old man and my uncle played for Saints, like my whole family, that side, a big Saints fan. So like there will be cool. Like honestly, I'm looking forward to all of it because, you know, like this whole thing, I can honestly say I've never taken anything for granted and I've tried to take all of them, like I'm not going to take anything for granted going forward. I'm going to continue to enjoy it. FOR all of myself into it, take it all in, take it all in. if what it is, not take myself too seriously, but still be driven to do as best as I possibly can. Does the, how much of it is like the fact that there's a world cup still, that there's a carrot at the end of it, right? That sort of keeps the fire burning. And did you have any dialogue with Steve ahead of, you know, that announcing? Yeah, I did. And Steve was very, like, Steve was brilliant with me in terms of having that conversation, because I just said, look, like, this is realistically what I'm looking at. Do you think that this is a possibility? Like, I want to know because potentially, if it wasn't on the cards, I just basically said to him, like, I need you to tell me when you think I'm done. And when I will, like, because he will dictate that. And then I said, look, like, I'm, I still think I've got a lot to give. I think I, like, I'm desperate to go to another world cup. Like, I want to give it another go. I'm also passionate about the team and where the team can go and confident that we could be successful, like, in however long time. So, and he was great. Like, he said, like, he wants me on board. There's no guarantees, but, you know, like, we want, we like, all being well, you'll be there. And enough of a commitment to, like, I'm going for it. Yeah. And that's the thing. Like, it is a huge driver for me. Like, but there are two things. It's not solely just because of the world cup. Like, I really want what I love about retiring in a world cup here is like, I get to finish with salaries, send off with salaries, and then finish with England as two separate things. You know what I mean? And whilst it's a knockout composition, you know, don't, don't know when your last game is like, I, you know, I quite enjoy being able to have both. You also plan it brilliantly because at that point in your return, the weather's miserable here and Christmas is around the corner, which means you can just pile on. That a boy. So, firstly, um, courts has obviously moved back, what we lost, he's heading back. When you look at someone like him returning and the possibilities he may be getting back involved with the squad, like the impact he could have. I'd be huge. Like, he's like, problem is, I don't love rugby enough to watch pro-D do. We've seen him play in two weeks. We do. We really do. We love both of them. I haven't seen him play in two weeks. So, I don't know what the impact that might have on like where he's at, but like courts and freak. He's an unbelievable player who brings a great level of leadership. So, like, if, you know, if he threw his name in the hat, he comes back and plays well for sale, like, I think he'd be a great addition to any squad. The, um, the other person that returning is Mac O'Villapola. He's going to enter Lester, Coling. Have you spoken to the Mac, mate? I have had a chat with him because I, like, my understanding when he moved over there was like, he'd play a couple of years and be done and, you know, sort of good experience for his family to move over there and I spoke to him about coming back and, like, he's excited, I think, about the Lester project. You know, he knows Jeff from the early England days. So, um, he'd be interested in see how he goes. Like, I'm sure I'll do well. Be weird to play against him though. We've had some, some great memories and we're going to go down memory lane now. First thing it's to bring us to mind. Oh God. Australia tore 2016. Half-flight home. So, set the scene. We. 2016. We obviously went to Australia. Uh, one all three tests and we had a great return flight, didn't we? You were there. I was there, yeah. Self and Jamie decided we went out. We were in Sydney and then we would think fly back till maybe two days later. So we had a good go. We then got to the airport and we got to the lounge. The party wasn't over for us. So we were on gin and. gin and bitter lemons. Gin and bitter lemons, weren't we? Yeah. It was delicious. And we were. I don't think any staff flew back with us. That was the problem. The only staffman was like Richard Hill. Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm just sleeping. Let me know when I got to the plane. So we went on there and then we got on the flight and there was a bar at the back of the plane and the emberings flight wasn't it? At the back of the plane and we literally got there and of course you sit down and would you like an orange-duty champagne? Champagne? Take the champagne and then we got to the back of the plane as soon as we taken off seat belts, I was coming off and we settled in there and the biggest thing I remember about this is I was convinced that we must be like an hour out from landing in Dubai for like our stockpile. We had a great time at the back. We hadn't even got past Perth. That's how we were. It's sort of four hours. We were absolutely blinded. Blinded. Blinded track. And like we kept getting asked to go back to our seats and we were playing music at the back. There's a really cringe video where we did like a song like with Deast remember? No, I don't think that. I'm saying the business anyway. Do you want me to tell the story Ben? I mean you can go on and have a seat. No, no, I just sort of see it out. Yeah, thanks, man. I really appreciate you from the back of my nose. So I then got told to go back to my seat which I was like, yeah, fair enough. Tried to get to sleep and we were obviously we're traveling in England kit and we had like England Polos on. Obviously it was like hot on the plane. I didn't have a fleece on anything else. So I fall asleep. I don't know how much longer later but like I started feeling like unwell. Motion sickness. Motion sickness. And I like relatively delirious just sort of sat up and realised I'm not going to make it anyway. So just extended my t-shirt and just you did the right thing. I think I did the right thing. I didn't make a mess. You caught all of it in my England Polo but there was like in my Polos and then I'm like getting out of there. The only way that I do, like the only thing I knew what to do was like I obviously got it off me and then I had to like try and like wash it. So I went to the bathroom poured all the sick down the sink. Like I'm obviously I'm still like very pissed at this so I'm like throwing my Polo in the water in the sink, trying to clean it. It's obviously like drenched. So then I leave it. I must have been on the bathroom door I'm guessing. It would have been a covid-insick dripping wet. Went back to my seat, fell asleep, woke up and do buy it and then I'm like wake up. I'm like without a shirt on like no one would give you a top. No one would give you a top. No but they took, they'd throw my top in the bin. Yeah they had. So you could have a pile of it. And then you would have, I need a top but obviously you were like they were not giving you a top. You're like lads I need a top. No it totally actually thankfully gave me this fleece. We were in Dubai. So it's so off. So then and this is the best bed. So then you brought an I love Dubai. Like a dark star. It was like a cheap like Dubai airport isn't cheap friend. We're all spending like a grand on a sart sheet T-shirt. The only thing that fit was I can't do by T-shirt. So imagine. We arrived back in the evening and of course we'd like the first seems to white wash Australia. So it wasn't a menu. We're all coming from a luggage. Next minute he pulls around the corner in a dark looking top of my love Dubai. Yeah it was bad. But the worst bit we met the Welsh team as well. I remember that they were flying back from New Zealand. They were in Dubai and then all the Welsh lads were like the fuck you were. Yes, sorry mate I got it really wrong. The the other one is the boat trip in 2023 World Cup. We went through the Thames. You remember that and the guy gave us like a big chat about you know if you lose your life Jack getting all that. We knew set off straight away and I reckon within like I don't know two minutes in. Well I made a made a building everyone's cool. That was brilliant. That was brilliant because we've always been there. We've always been there. We've been taking it so seriously and we were just like fucking it. But the more the more people we popped the more people found it. Okay we get the joke. We went all in. We went all in. They're quite tight those things as well. I don't really have a neck anyway. It's not a turning bloke. There's plenty more stories but that's between mates over a pint. I think so. Not for a podcast. But there was just a little flavour of eating. You never never short the laugh with jinx as around full of great fun. This episode is brought to you by Tide the only one business financial platform designed to help you run your business better trusted by over 1.8 million businesses globally. Jamie you actually mentioned earlier you're a small business owner yourself. We've got a game for you. Brilliant. Yeah it is brilliant. I'm going to name business and then you're going to tell me if it's owned by a Sarasun or not. Okay. So if I said Carter and George for instance you would say fast learner. Lovely. That a boy. Yeah. Right. Wolf Pat Lager. Sarasun. That is owned by Alistair Hargreaves and Chris Walsh. Well done. Mustard clothing. Not Sarasun Jack Null. He's good. Too good. Below the shoulder. Technically a couple of them are Sarasun I think. Is Sarabun Jess Breach, Emma Sword and Zoe Harrison? Four five. That's Sarasun's Dumb Day and George Cruz. Easy. And finally Paving Field. Not Sarasun's Ellis Kinge Bristol Bears legend. Legend. He actually sends me pictures half the time he's driving around the very end of the world. I just love these on the tools. I just love it. There he is scrumaging carrying getting through like buckets as well and then like works done like kit bag goes in the back and off he goes. What a boy. Well, well done Jamie you got five out of five. Thanks mate. Do I win anything? Well as good mates that we are. No you don't. But the listeners haven't exclusive offer. We've tied. So you could jump on that if you want. Yeah, perfect. I will. You know, you just listen to this episode then you can jump on that. If you want to scale your business effectively head to tied to find out more about the business current account we've built in tools for invoicing, expense tracking, payments and more helping you save time. I'm staying organized and manage your business with less stress. If you want to open a free Tide business account today, you'll get a £100 cash reward when you spend up to £500 in your first 30 days. Enter the code FTLOR 100 at signup. Teasing C supply. Go to Tide.co/FTLOR and use the promo code FTLOR 100. How do you reflect? We're going from that to a very serious chat now. Perfect. How do you reflect on the six nations just gone? We were poor. We were poor. I think there was so much excitement coming into it, so much expectation. I think we didn't deal with that. I think we embraced it rather than taking it, just parking and being focused on, you know, it is a cliche answer, but you do. The best teams I've been a part of just go day by day. Get better. Get better. Get better. So we've probably got a little bit carried away with it. I'm still so optimistic about what the team can do, though. I think we are a brilliant team. I think we all have got all the right things in place to be very, very successful. So I just think, yes, we got it wrong. I think there were certain couple of things like that. So we started well against Wales. I think tactically we got things wrong against Scotland and Ireland in particular. And then we basically didn't have a plan B to come back. No one has a plan B when you go 20 points now. But we hadn't really focused too much on phase attack, for example. And when you're then chasing 20 points, you're going, we need phase. We need phase. And we hadn't really put our eggs in that basket. So I think like, because as you know, going into a six nations, you need to focus on, you can't focus on everything. So we focused on a few other things. And then it became very, very difficult for us to pull it back when chasing things without having the system in place necessarily. So I think we showed a lot more against Italy and France in particular. And I'm encouraged about where we're going. Just about the plan B, it is one of those things where people always go like, oh, you need to plan B, plan B. But I remember there's a comment on some very cool quarterback, Peyton Manning, basically, who took all the reps in training. And it's like, well, why do you never let the backup guy take it? And the coach is like, well, we don't practice fucked. If he goes down with fucked, I'm not going to practice fucked. It's a bit like, you don't practice in this squad. You don't practice being 20 points down because there's only so much time in the week, isn't there? And then you plan that he back to when you're the game. So when it goes against you, it's a bit like, you can't prepare for every scenario and sometimes we're having games in teams, it's like you sort of go, oh, we're going to do training here where you're going to be down to 13 men. And why are we going to 13? You said when you're like, I did. Yeah. Fuck you. But when it's hard to try, especially with a national squad, you got to shoot that time. It's hard to basically rehearse everything. So it's, um, we got, we got, we got things, we got things better. Like the Italy result was poor, like we shouldn't be losing to Italy like that. They're a decent team now. But we still should have won that day. A few things didn't quite go our way. But like the France performance as a whole, I think hopefully gives a lot of people a lot of hope moving forward. Does the France performance come on the back of? It was almost like the shackles are off now. So therefore playing that start in that way is actually easier because all the hype and all the pressures on France and therefore at this point, you know, me and Colly had a big fool out after the Italy games. We'd totally disagreed on how I saw it and how he saw it, which is fine. But I looked at the last game and I'm like, that's the team. That's like the player pool and the team. That's what it's capable of. But I think from a fans point of view, and even, you know, we are fans now from the outside, is you watch that and you think, but why don't we see that earlier on? I knew you were saying about the phase and it wasn't necessarily priority, but it seems to me that there's been a real different trend in rugby and it felt like England was still trying to play a way that had been maybe more structured, controlled, risk of votes, where I felt like the theme within International Rugby was changing to a more multi-phase e-cap penalty. I think rugby in general is going that way. And we probably realised that a little bit too late, you know, off the back of a Scotland performance and then you come up against Ireland who are onto a good thing with great players. Yeah, we probably did. You're right. Like the realisation that, you know, phase and multi-phase, and look, we've got one of the best set coaches in the world, in my opinion, Lee Blackout, I think he's brilliant. And you know, he then was given more time and more licence and focus more on multi-phase and then it's like, actually, we look really good doing this and we've got some amazing players that you give time and space. So, like great learnings for us moving forward, you know, we've got a tough one first up. And I'm excited about us in the summer. I'm excited about, you know, the years leading to the World Cup. I honestly think with our player pool, with like the coaches that we have, with the game plans that we're going to have, like, we'll be right up there. One thing I say, sorry, is think about it. It's like the way the game's going multi-phase and stuff. It's like, Scotland Ireland was always played that way. So the game's almost swung to how they play. So they were ahead of it, if we're not, they were rather than, so it's very easy to say how you adapt and stuff. But like, it's kind of swung to the way they've played like previously, probably the game swung more of a contest area, which is what England traditionally for. So again, you play in a low-income, slow to adapt, but you're still there ahead of you anyway, you know what I mean? So, yeah. It's a very. That's it, not the fear, but the thought is now, if rugby swings back the other way again, which it does, because rugby goes from contest to sort of free-flow and all, you know what it means, it's all the time. So, it'd be interesting. Yeah, yeah. With, I've heard so many good things about Lee Blackett, right, genuinely. Like anyone I speak to, whether it be on the pod or away from the pod, like they say he is elite of what he does. What does make him so good? Er, he's a character, like first and foremost, so he's like, he's hilarious. Like, he just goes up, takes a mic, like, you know, you know, you need that a little bit, especially in those environments, but his level of detail is very, very good, so like, first phases, you know, maps off line outs, things like that, he's clever in what he does. But he also keeps its. Like, it's this balance, isn't it? Like, it seems simple, but there's so much detail in what he's going through and the way that he delivers it, you know, he gets by and he gets people excited about attacking, he gets people excited about wanting the ball. And again, like, we've got some freaks who can do amazing things on the ball, like you look at Mani and, you know, the amazing backline that we've, the players that we've got, like, you just need to get them the ball. Like, ultimately, sometimes rugby is a simple game and, you know, he's got an amazing level of detail and understanding of what makes tax work, but equally, like, the mindset around wanting to attack and take teams on and beating your man and all that thing, like, you know, that's the bit that makes him a brilliant coach. Yeah, the game break is the England possess. There's no doubt, like, and again, I think from the outside, that's the bit you kind of, you're like, look at these firepower and you think, oh, let's see them, let's see them. And it's almost like. Yeah. It used to be the firepower, like, it used to be. Yeah. When you first. Oh, no, but, like, you're kicking game. Yeah. It's going to be. It's going to be on the 20s, 20s, 20s, 20s, 20s, 20s, 20s, 20s, 20s, 20s. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But the, you know, that, obviously, like, those threats that England possess and everything like that, you're like, oh, I want to see him get more touches as possible. So, you know, at the end of the tournament, without, obviously, you can't, obviously, give all the details, um, jinks. But. What was the mood after? You just lost to France, but was that that feeling of, actually, boys, that's a line in the sand now? We needed that. Yeah. We needed it. We were desperate to win, but we needed a performance, I think, for belief, for momentum, for an excitement to come back, like, we needed it, and we knew it was a big week, and, like, France away in the Six Nations, it, like, it doesn't get as tough as that. Like, that is a tough fixture under a lot of pressure. And we just went out there and gone, like, fuck this, fuck you, you getting it. Like, this is the best of us. Like, develop, like, how do you deal with the best of us? And we, like, we threw everything at it. We really did. And we got unlucky. We certainly could have shorted some things up and tried to put a bit of a leash on B.L. Barry, but, you know, we weren't that far away. And that then, you know, you come away from it thinking, like, okay, like, I'm keen to. Like, you're almost desperate for it just to keep going. You know, you want that to be the start of the campaign, you want, you know, you can't get it back. That's professional sport. We got the first bit wrong. But actually, that's why I'm sat here going, like, we've got a camp on Monday, for example, for three days. Like, I'm buzzing to go in. I'm excited about where the team can go and where we can take it. And, you know, our next game's. We've got a France 15 game, but South Korea always have our first test back, like, talk about France being a big game. That's quite a big one, too. It's mad, though, with that game like that, because the narrative can shift so quickly. But we all know that's a big challenge. Of course it is. It's the biggest challenge in my rugby. But there's also the opportunity to. It goes there and you get it right and you never know, like, it's suddenly the whole narrative changes on the back of one huge performance out there. And I think. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but like, I think people. There was a huge sense of pride in the way that we played against France in particular. And like, yeah. And I think this is the thing with the Italy game, it's the sense of, like, you know, as a fan, what you'd turn off, you think, "Oh, there's so much better than that." Yeah. I've got that sort of strain to watch. The French game you turn off and you go, "Shit, I don't care about them losing it. I'm so. That's the team I want to watch." That's like. And then you see the mates and then you go, "Oh, you're my runaround." You go, "That's England, like that. I've got a love for watching that." And like, the big thing for me, whenever I've gone into camp, especially as I've sort of developed a more of a leadership position, is like, you don't have to start a zero. Like, that was a long time ago. But like, a performance like that allows you to bring momentum into the next campaign. And on Monday, I'm sure we'll be looking at that game going, "This is what we're going to be about. This is not." And then it becomes a lot clearer for you and again, you can sort of build that excitement about the type of team you want to be in the way you want to play. How much of your time is taken up in your leadership group? yng Nghymru'r Llywodraeth, ac yn yng Nghymru'r Llywodraeth, ac yn yng Nghymru'r Llywodraeth, very manageable and important. I think you have to, sorry, it's a little jumping, but you have to embrace the fact that Hooker is a conversational spotter's part of the scrim like. I played with Mev Davis who was 90 kilos tiny, but because he was technically right and what is to do it, he made, he was on the best scrimmage you didn't hook as I played with, but say it's that ability to, you know, it's not to be scared of being hooker, that is to yourself in there and be sort of aggressive how big you are. And then, yeah, that's what makes difference in the scrim. Props want to play with scrimmages, want to play with hookers, think how big you are, want to play with guys that want to push. It would actually be a disservice given the fact that you are, and I'm an embarrassed you, one of the best brothers in World Rugby to not also say what would be the one tip of throwing in for a line out that you'd give. Get a routine that works for you. The most important thing is like finishing your hands towards the target, finishing your chest towards, I always talk about a laser, your finished position laser from your chest to where you want the water to go. Excellent. Drinking your, keep throwing when you're finished. Not like Johnny Wilkinson keeps kicking his umbrella, he loves it. He's not doing that. He can come in now, Jamie. Don't think so. Just chuck it into a batter. Oh no. I don't think so. I'm a fan of the wedding crash. I'm not hungry. This is such a. Oh, so good. Playing extra this weekend. Yeah. Sarasons, you're in the mix, you got extra. Mate, like, Mark McCall's final season, does it feel like everything the players are turning up at the right time and everything's going towards a big, big push? Yeah, it does. It feels like we're coming into form at the right time, but I'm hoping that it's not too little too late, because I think if we make the top four genuinely, we back ourselves to win it. And I don't think, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm speaking on their behalf, but I don't think you'd want to play against us. Like, you know, you don't really want to play against anyone in that top four. But I think with the level of players that we've got, with the motivation that we've got with it, Mark being Mark's year, and last year, you know, I just. I think we're onto a good thing. I think we've got a great team. We've managed to keep selection relatively consistent over the last little while, which is how does it go to Sterdin? You know, we've got a lot of history against Exterse. So it'll be good fun. What has the impact Mark McCall's had? He's been in 15 seasons. If you could, get me. Give me. Give me his flowers, I suppose. In your words, we wouldn't have won anything without him. Genuinely. He's been the heartbeat. He's been the brains. He's been. You know, he's driven absolutely everything. I couldn't speak highly enough of him. I think he should go down as the best club coach ever. I think, hopefully, he will. And he deserves all the chords, because he's like an unbelievable bloke. He doesn't want any of the chords. He wants to say, under the radar, he's going to be very happy in retirement. But. What a great guy. What a. You know, what a career he's had. Hopefully, we can give him something to smile about on the end. As you may have noticed, Jamie, now that we've retired, we're both not exactly following a regimented fitness plan. In our playing days, we used to have all our dire exercise and health fundamentals laid out for us as rugby players, but since retiring, we've realised it can quite difficult to actually know what goes on inside our bodies. Well, private exists to fix this, Coli. They provide simple, painless at-home blood tests that cut through the guesswork and give you personalized, science-led insight people can actually act on. Jamie, what do we eat on a game day? With England, it starts off with white chocolate porridge, personal favourite, am I? A couple of bowls of that. I try not to eat meat on game day for swelling purposes, mostly because we're wear white. Then I have very little, really, a small bowl of pasta with some sauce, maybe some banana bread, mostly into sweet things, and then a few sweets before I go. Pancakes? Banana bread's a new one. Is it? Yes, good. It's one of your five days. It is one of your five days, why not? Yes, healthy. No sugar in it. Well, Frivers rolled out some huge new features to monitor your long-term health. There's a new health span dashboard in their mobile app, wearable integrations for your Apple Health, gammers, etc. Let's you see your biomarkers and metrics all in one place. There's also guided physical tests that are linked to long-term health. One of them being the grip strength. Jinks? Grip strength? For anyone under the age of 45, the optimum is 49.4 and above. So, what are you going? Right hand left hand. I've got a bit of a dodgy finger, but I'm going to go. Yeah, that a boy. Just let it have it. Let it rip. Here we go. Yeah, I'll put that up for the season. Can we just lie it, says? Like a million. Yeah, well, we did this with Elliot Cass, and he, uh, I think he got like 24. And he's like, he's only like 26. It's a big shout out to Elliot. Slightly alarming. Oh, my fingers hurt. Seems great. Oh, my gosh. That was a. 74. Mate, you're optimum health. In fact, you are beyond optimum health. That's out for the season, though. That's a big 74. You just racked up there. Well done, mate. Thanks, mate. What's yours? Prove it. Yeah. Let's go, mate. Remember I had been to Beel Bowel. So, it's like, you know, by the candle, both ends there. It's so reddened. It's so reddened. 72. This is the bed. The sheriff is the one that's. I'm worried now, because I think my max is like 71 or so. Well, my 72, mate, say, I know. 75. Yeah. We are all optimum in our health. More than, apparently. More than, more than. Congratulations, mate. Don't retire. You could play on for ages, but I look to that side. A strong grip is consistently associated with a longer healthier life. And now you can track it alongside your blood and wearable metrics in the Friver app. If you'd like to make more informed choice by your lifestyle, give Friver a go. Use the link in our episode description and use the code "Love a Rugby" to get 20% off your first blood test. That's "Love a Rugby" for 20% off your first blood test. Jinks, thank you so much. There's so much more to talk about, but we've done that on purpose. It means we've got to come and see you again. Yeah, perfect. So it means you've got to come on again for part two. Yeah, brilliant, I'm good. Good luck this weekend. Look after yourself. And thanks for being so open and honest as always. Thank you, mate. I love you. I love you.