Jamie Campbell Bower of Stranger Things/Horizon

This is an "I Heart" podcast. Guaranteed Human. A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there hidden in plain sight, so why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, hunting the Long Island serial killer. The investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam, available now. Listen for free on the "I Heart" radio app, Apple Podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. "Where he delivers a performance that, man, it's gonna forever be talked about because he is so scary and so damn good. But aside from Stranger Things, he has a very long list of credits to his name. From captivating audiences, as Anthony, in Timber, in 2007, gothic musical "Extravaganza, Sweeney Todd, the demon barber of Fleet Street, to co-starring in the mortal instruments city of bones. Oh, and then there's the fan favorite fantastic feasts, and so many more memorable TV and film performances I will be here for two days if I keep going on. But his talent, it also extends into the music world, where most recently he released his single titled "Home." The lyrics, "You need to listen carefully to them. They are so powerful and so vibrant. You can see everything he is singing come to life as you are listening." And he also announced his hard rock project "Blood Magic" to critical acclaim, no surprise there, with his single "Death/Rebirth." Oh, and because he's not busy enough, he has a new movie called "Horizon Dropping June 28th." So let's add that to the mix of everything he has going on. This man, he can do it all, and not only that, he's such an introspective, thought-provoking, grounded person. I really enjoy talking with him today about his artistry and his outlooks on life, and so much more, I guess, like Jamie is thrilling for me, because he brings so much truth to the discussion. And I think through sharing our truths is when we can all really connect and feel less alone in the world. So let's see if today we can get Jamie to say something that he has never said before. Jamie Campbell Bauer, how you doing, my friend? I'm good, thank you so much for having me, how are you? I am fantastic, I'm so happy you're here, I know you have a lot going on here, in the middle of filming the final season of Stranger Things. I believe you were on set six hours ago, 12 hours ago, and here you are, so thank you for being here. Oh, you're so welcome, yeah, I know, I was, I was doing things that I can't talk about, but yeah, I was on set, and it's all very exciting. Is that weird for you to just jump into regular life like you are today? You were just playing a villain six hours ago in this monster, and here you are just kicking it with me. Is that weird for you? Yes, I'll be honest, it can be, it can be quite strange with, I was always interesting when you're in the middle of filming something, you don't want to be saying too much, yes, it's strange, yes. Yeah, I can imagine, I can imagine, you're like, wait a minute, I am me today, okay, good to know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, finding me again, finding me again within that space is always interesting, I think, I think, I suppose as an actor, there's always that part of you that always wants to bring your own personal experience to the work that you're doing, grounding it in truth, but then there's also a part of me that always is looking for the truth within the character as well. So, you know, blending those two worlds is always an interesting thing, and I think subconsciously you're always picking up on things as you, as you go through the experience, you know, and as you know, and as I've said, you know, I do like to involve myself quite heavily in the work that I do, so yesterday thankfully wasn't too much of a heavy day, otherwise, we may not be here today, but we are, well, it's very nice to see you in Jamie form, because I have a feeling you'll be scaring us plenty in the new season, so I'm glad you're here as you. fingers crossed, fingers crossed. Well, man, we have a lot to cover today, and I want to start with home, your brand new single. Admittedly, I didn't know a lot about your musical career, I knew you as Jamie the actor, and I started hearing some things last year, and I'm like, oh my God, this guy can fucking sing. Like, it blew me away, and the power of your writing is what really, you know, struck me the most. So, when you released home, you put out that you were delighted, but you were also terrified to release it. Why? I think, for me, and the process that I go through now with my music is, you know, I'm always trying to be honest, you know, with the presentation of myself, and also I think, as I've ventured further into, I mean, I'm even getting fear talking about this now, but as I've ventured further into writing more country-style music, there is always that part of me that feels imposter syndrome. I think I've always felt that. I've always had a little bit of imposter syndrome, both in music and in acting too. I know it's the thing that I love the most in the world, but there's always that part of me that looks at people who have come before me and they're greatness and gone, oh my God, like I'll never be as good as you. Which is a very British thing, there's that sort of self-effacing nature into that. But I do find that with that fear, and if I'm feeling that fear, it's generally a good thing, it's generally me. It generally means that what I'm doing is honest and there's a vulnerability to it, which I really value. Well, and you're not letting that said imposter syndrome paralyze you. You're still doing the work you want to do, which I think is really cool, because a lot of people would say, "Ooh, yeah, that one, I'm out. I'm not doing it." Yeah, I think that's part of my nature. That has always been part of my nature. There's that rebel inside of me that whilst I feel the fear, and as I've grown older and become more comfortable in my skin, being able to understand my own fear and recognize that fear is false evidence appearing real. That's the phrase that I've learned, and to push through it and to go no matter what. And we're in such an interesting time with releasing music or releasing art in any form that now I do tend to create and go, "Okay, let's put this out next week. Let's just go for it regardless. I'm an independent artist. I don't have to answer to a record label, and so I do have the freedom within that, because the more I sit on things, the more I think about them, and the more the fear will build, and I'll go, "No, no, no, no, I'm running away. This isn't happening. That courage for me has to be instantaneous, and it has to be, yeah, there's an instinctuality with it, I think, that I now go with. So yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. It's really sweet to say. Yeah. Well, I think it's really cool that you push through when you created the song and you're stepping into the genre. And home is such an interesting concept. I mean, for me, I could really relate to it, because I've always had a very difficult relationship with, you know, home, and where my home is, and where I belong, and where I don't belong, and all of it, from a young boy to now, and I think a lot of people can relate to that idea, and the lyrics, like I said earlier, are so powerful. So you tell me as the artist, what is the meaning behind the song for you? This song, I think, for me, you know, I'm a transplant. I live in America now, and I think, as I've grown older, I've understood my desire for a level of security within my life, you know, I'm an artist, I create, I've been living out of a bag, basically, since I was about 18, you know, traveling around, and to have somewhere that I can go about to that is mine. And yes, okay, there is certainly sort of a materialistic idea behind that, you know, to have something that belongs to me, that feels safe to me, and in the same breath, that sense of security, and that sense of belonging, and that sense of feeling warm, like you did when you were a kid, maybe, when one was much younger before the world came crashing in on them, you know, is something that I can also relate to. And I wrote it with my friend, Ranissi, who is an amazing songwriter, and I've loved his work for years and years and years, and you know, I haven't always loved writing with other people, I'll be honest with you, you know, I was in a group, I was in a band where we signed a major record deal for which, you know, incredibly grateful, and all of a sudden, there were lots of voices in the room, and you go into these writing sessions with all these people and all of a sudden, the intention is, well, let's make a hit, you know, and it's like, well, hold on, that's not what I want to be doing, I want to be exploring the depths of myself. So to venture out into a co-writing session, again, with somebody that I love was just a total blessing, and so Ryan and I were talking about this idea of home, and talking about whether it pertains to a place, a person, or yourself, you know, and within that, I think the song tries to cover as much of that as possible, whilst it's describing Ryan likes to refer to his, his own music in the same way that Nick K, refers to his music, is kind of sad bastard music, which I really appreciate, like I'm obsessed with that. But, you know, it starts with this idea of being tied to an individual when the seas are rough, when the winds blow, you know, can we support each other, and can we find ourselves that place of belonging, and then at the end, you know, the ship sinks, but they're still together, so that sense of belonging was a togetherness. Which is always interesting, and it's a fascinating thing for me, because I never want to, particularly in my, you know, in my sort of adulthood, you know, the love co-dependent. You know what I mean, like, you know, like, you're my everything. But there is a sense of when you work hard at something with somebody, and you create a life, and you create a space, and you create a warmth, and you create a home, there is just that sense of, yeah, we're doing this, you know, and this is beautiful. And I can really relate to that. So yeah, it's sort of, it's tied in with a lot of things, and that's one of the things that I love about Ryan's writing is I am very much quite a linear storyteller in my writing, you know, I like a beginning, and an end, and it sort of follows one park, whereas with Ryan's writing, each line has so much in it, and that was one of the things that I loved working on the song with him the most, you know, was what can we pepper in the next line, you know, and then how do we tie that to what's come before to be able to tell a story? It's really, really cool. So yeah, that's kind of what we were going for, I think. The storytelling of it is what really struck me. A lot of music today to me is, I mean, not to like knock other genres or artists, but there's no story, and it's like one beat or one word, 25 times, and I like this story, and I really appreciate that with your writing, and as you said, you stepped into this country arena, which was new for you, right? So is that something you want to continue exploring? Has that been fun to dabble in? Yeah, it's, it's something I've always wanted to explore, somebody a few months back reminded me of something that I'd written around 2013, around this time, on social media, where I just said, "All I want to be is a country music star." No way. Yeah, and it's true, you know, when I started the group that I was mentioning earlier, you know, whilst I was writing that first record, I was also writing a lot of country music, and I never felt, I never felt like I was in a space to kind of put that out, and going back to what we were saying about storytelling, I think for me, that's what country music does so great. Folk music to gospel music, sad Boston music, like Nick Cave, you know, they tell these really beautiful stories, one of the things that I think for me as an artist going into that genre is like, I really appreciate so much of like what that means, you know, like I have an old truck from 1972 that I do love to death, but am I going to write about my old truck probably not? I'm going to try and explore things in a little, in a, in a, in a, in a different way. So yeah, it's definitely something that I'm, that I'm going to continue to do and, and something that I hold great reverence for, and I think that America in general has such a beautiful history of music, you know, coming from England and, and predominantly putting out music that is rock and roll, you know, I come to America and I get to go to places like Menverse and meet artists that, you know, have been doing this for so long and so cupped so much of that, you know, I was down there, down in Menverse just pre-Christmas hanging out with this guy called Matt, who started a studio called Southern Groves and he used to be an engineer at Sun Studios and we ended up going to Royal Studios, which is where our green recorded and we walk into the studio and boom Mitchell is in there and all of sudden we hear this organ and we walk into the room and there are these like old guys in the room and of course you always pay respect to your elders anyway, but something about walking into this space was like, all right, I need to show a little bit more respect if this feels kind of amazing. Of course, they're playing music, but I really understand what a session is like. Anyway, Matt turns to me and he's like, you know who those guys are and was like, I know, I honestly, I have no idea. He's like, that's the high rhythm section and they tracked on Algarine's records back in the day and they're still making music now. There's still some other house band for artists to come in. So that was just like a huge blessing and what a gift, you know, so yeah, I try to soak up as much of that as I can and just really immerse myself in that world and you know, going back to gospel, you know, finding old gospel records is very difficult to find, you know, recorded gospel music because so much of it was just it just happened in a church and it's kind of passed down through generations and you know, it can still kind of hear it now and what people are doing, but to find the old stuff is is really really difficult and I managed to stumble across. There was a group called The Staples Singers who later on became more sort of funk music, but they started as a as a gospel group and I found a recording of theirs called the Freedom Highway which was recorded in the 60s and it's all like live in a church and you know, it doesn't sound great, but by God, it's got a lot of soul to it and you can't replicate that, you can't, but you can certainly soak that up and you can certainly be like, all right, how do I, as much of my own vibe into this as these people are putting into whatever it is that's coming out of their mouths or out of their instruments now. So yeah, I'm obsessed with it, I hold if I say great reverence for it and great respect for it too. And I grew up, I grew up, I was born in London and we left there when I was eight and so we moved to the countryside and so, you know, I do understand the idea of kind of simplicity, which I think is what a lot of people are looking for nowadays, you know, we're seeing, we're seeing a great sort of turn towards kind of country music, which is fantastic, you know, kind of post doing his thing in that world, which is just amazing to see and people sort of paying more attention to it, but I think ultimately it comes down to this idea of simplicity, it comes down to this idea of, I don't want to sound crazy, but like, has the sort of capitalist system failed us here, you know, are we looking for something that's more real, are we looking for our connection to nature, to brass, you know, people say, go outside and touch some grass like any more grass than when you're out in the countryside, right? And I think that's kind of where we're seeing this go to and that's something that I can certainly relate to. And I think that comes with age as well, I think, you know, this idea of, I don't know, life was much simpler like when I was a kid, you know, I had my parents say, I didn't believe them, but, you know, now I'm older I'm like, well, maybe there was this level of kind of protection in this little bubble in the English kind of thing, which, which is a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing and I hope everybody finds that for themselves. I hope everybody finds themselves that that place of safety, I guess. Well, I think we're all craving that nostalgia. And like you said, simpler times. And I like that this song, you know, makes you kind of feel like you want that and you crave that and that it's okay to feel like you need that, right? Whatever that idea of home is to you. So it's really cool. I look forward to seeing more from you in the genre because if this single is any little taste of what's to come, I think some good shit is common man. So that's exciting. That's very exciting. That's very sweet. Thank you so much. I'm just out there doing my thing and hoping that if one person connects to it, you know, that's enough for me. Jamie, when you're acting, you're obviously playing a character and you're reciting someone else's words and it's a very different mode of art. I'll say then writing your own music and bearing your soul and being vulnerable in that sense. Is it hard for you to open up as you? Did you have to get used to that? Or was that always kind of easy? And that's why you began songwriting? Oh, wow. There's been a journey within that. For sure, I think the first record that I made with the band that I often talk about came out of getting soap, you know, and coming to terms with myself and coming to terms with unprocessed anger or fear. And that was a very cathartic and freeing time as that progressed. About myself getting lost, you know, I found myself getting lost in that. And I've been open about that before and other interviews where I just kind of felt like I'd lost the DNA, like the project had lost the DNA, like I wasn't as connected to myself as I needed to be. There were times within that project after the first record for sure where I certainly felt that, you know, we went and we moved into this house in the middle of nowhere in England and I always wanted to do this thing that, you know, where the rolling stones went and lived in front of and made a record and I was like, I want to do that. So we went and we lived in this place and there were certainly times in that experience where I felt like, yeah, I hit it again, but then there were times where I just didn't feel like that and I felt like I'd lost myself. So when that project ended and I was able to write stuff that was coming from my heart or take the stuff that had come from my heart during that time and and present it, there felt like there was this new found sense of freedom, you know, there really, really was this new found sense of freedom. And, you know, look, I am and I can be a very private person, you know, I think it's just part of who I am and I've been in this industry for long enough now, you know, to kind of be sometimes be cautious, but with my music, I'm sat alone and I'm sat in my house and I'm not thinking about the listener, I'm not thinking about it being a radio hit, you know, I'm just trying to write from the heart and I have an endless demos of songs that are not from that space, but then I do get to that point sometimes where I'm like, yeah, that's it, I've heard it, I've got it, then it's coming out and it's and I, you know, I was working on a mix with the friend of mine recently and I think this idea of like a visceral reaction when you're creating art is really important. Does it make you jump around when you're making it? Does it make you cry when you're making it? Well, if it's doing something to you, then you're telling the truth, right? The worst thing is when I step away from something and I was like, I fell in nothing. Oh, just completely disassociated from my own life. So is it hard? Sometimes, I think sometimes like, you know, digging around in grief or digging around in pain can always be difficult. It's meant to be, it's uncomfortable. That's part of my journey is coming to terms with those parts of myself, knowing that there needs to be space for all of it, you know, there just has to be space for all of it. Yeah, well, I think that's the part of the beauty of your artistry. It's you dig around, you write about and sing about the things that truly matter to you so that you do feel something because the hope is you want other people to feel something and that's what I felt listening to this song, you know, and like I said, I gravitate towards people that have something real to say. That's why I started the show. I mean, I also cover red carpets and junkets where you get three minutes with somebody five minutes if you're lucky and you can't have a real conversation, you know, and to me, there's nothing better than being able to really have those forms of connection. And for that, I think it makes your music really compelling to listen to. So home is out now for everybody wondering how they can listen. You can download it. It's fantastic. Definitely take a listen to it. Jamie, your instrument, it's one of the most interesting voices that I have heard in both your acting and your singing. And I think to have that combination is not something you see often, you know, even obviously playing a Vecna what you do with your voice and how you get there and just seemingly seem to whip that on up. It's like, wait, how? And then you hear you on your music and it's totally different. Do you ever get like a sore horse throat when you're playing that role of Vecna? Like, are you ever like, "Guys, I need a minute." No, you know, I found out through process of failure, I found out kind of how I could do it and a lot of it is just about relaxing. It's just about trying to be as relaxed as possible. Same thing with singing to the moment I tense up. The moment I start to worry is the moment it all goes wrong and everything just goes like that and no air is getting through nothing's vibrating how it needs to. So no, I don't get worse unless I'm asked to, unless I'm asked to shout and I, yeah, I recently had that experience for like, I had to scream and then I had to come in and not scream and I woke up in the morning being like, "I've got PTSD from like being out like touring a band where I'm like shouting every night." And like, you've got another show to play and you're like, "Oh my god, it's coming out!" And everything just starts to like close up. So I had to really just like read around myself and resend to myself. But no, I don't get worse too often. And I've said this before, there's an interesting thing I think that happens with our voices in general, which is when we are told to be relaxed, we do get this deeper tombre. We get a deeper resonance. And that's why we're attracted to certain singers. All we get a different tombre, a different resonance, I should say, because they're not all singers, you know, they go deeper sometimes it's just air or something coming through. And yeah, you know, I said, I remember, I remember Dave I of season four playing Beckner, Denise, who's our PR, you know, she was like, "Wow, you know, the voice is so different." I was like, "Oh, it's because I'm telling the truth." And I was like, in full Beckner, I just looked at her saying this. And then I was like, "Oh my god, like, I'm so sorry, sorry, I don't give me." He took over. So yeah, yeah, I don't get worse, but I do, it's also an interesting indicator of when it's good for me as well. Just the air falls dead silent on set sometimes when I'm doing it and it just feels, it's otherworldly, it's otherworldly, that's the only way I can describe it. It doesn't come from me, it really, really doesn't. And that's the same thing with music, you know, when something is real, it's coming from a place of total undying. Yeah, yeah, no, it seems like that. And I mean, nobody, nobody taught you how to do that voice, right? Like you just kind of developed it, which is why it seemingly came from nowhere, correct? Yeah, I mean, you know, I've listened to a lot of tomweights in my time, but yeah, it kind of came from nowhere. I mean, I started and I did it, you know, I know Matt and Ross are very, they have a lot of reference and Fred Kruger is an iconic character. But Freddie's very, there's a lot of energy going on behind Freddie all the time. He's always on the chase and he's always moving quite quickly. And then I was sort of trying to emulate this thing and I couldn't quite get it. And then I was like, I need to go back to hell, Ray. So I need to go back to Doug Bradley and and I went back in there and I was like, ah, this is it. This is it for me. There is a, there is a level of just, what's the word? It's, it's considered choice. There's just considered choice within it. And I really was like, that for me, that's hitting a place that feels real to me, for sure. So yeah, just to time and the pandemic, you know, thankfully, by the grace of God, you know, I was, I was given the blessing of a pandemic to work through whatever I needed to work through to figure out how to do it. Do people just stop you all the time and say, can you give me the voice? Like, is that a regular occurrence for you? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's funny. I'm always, I'm so protective of it. I'm so, so protective of it. And that's because for me, there's a, I don't know, there's a sort of sacred nature to it that I don't want to, that I don't want to monopolize or bastard. You know, I've really done. I just, I wanted it to be in its place on the screen and then it's done. And that's it. That's where it lives. And okay, do I sometimes send my partner, oh, you know, if I'm sat on the toilet, you know, she's in the other room. Yeah, of course I do. I mean, I'd be lying if I said that I didn't do that. But, you know, that's in the privacy of my own home. And, you know, bless her, you know, she has to sit and deal with me whilst I'm kind of working on projects like that, you know, so I am walking around the house kind of growling. So, yeah, they do, they do ask me, they do ask me. It's always such a blessing. And I think, you know, that's the other thing about this show is like just to be able to be a small part of creating something that means so much to so many people. Again, it's not something that you focus so much of doing it. But when you come out the other side of it, it's quite intense and it's quite shocking. It's quite shocking. You never, I think there's still a level of separation for me within that. There's, there's still like this. I was listening to your episode on with, with, um, I can't remember his name, a singer from Matchbox Twenton. He was saying, you know, how he finds it difficult to accept. Thank you very much. Can relate to that again, being in English, but, you know, maybe, maybe I'm just using that as a sort of defense mechanism. But there's this level of separation, you know, that happens within that. And I'm so grateful. But it is weird. Sometimes it's odd. It can be really odd. It can be really, really odd. I'm just doing what I do and hoping that actually what I'm doing is serving the story or serving the idea that someone else has had. Okay, yes, I'm bringing my own ideas to it, but I didn't write this show. I'm not behind the camera. I'm just trying to do the best thing that I can do and to see that land with people is, um, yeah, it's amazing, confusing, amazing, a blessing. Yeah, I'm sure because you're just showing up and doing your job and it will forever go down as one of the most epic villain performances in the history of television and film and it's been time and time written about and you're like, well, I'm just showing up for work and that's nice, but you're doing your job. But soak it in. I mean, you know, I know what's hard as you say you're British, but, you know, enjoy the feeling of what it means to to so many people out there because it does. And to have people always asking you to do the voice, like clearly it resonates. And, you know, sorry to disappoint, you're not going on cameo anytime soon and doing the voice for people's birthdays, but they all love it. They all want it. And it means a lot for fear of the secret service coming in here any second and throwing me on the floor and tazing me. I'm going to reluctantly and carefully ask, is there anything you can tease for this final season? I think I can go with what the party line, which is, you know, and actually kind of also how I feel as well. If you thought last season was nuts, this season is just out of control wild. Like it is bonkers. It really, really is. It's bigger. It's just for me. It's just completely insane. It's completely insane. And I feel like, with last year, it was easy for me to kind of track this year. I'm like, what? Hold on. Wait, what? And like going through things in the night and the process for this year has gotten. I'm looking at my, my, my board that I can't show you, but the process for this year is just, it's wild. It really is. And I was saying to somebody the other day, you know, really the only character that I've ever gone back and, and, and redone or kind of rediscovered was in twilight, you know, and it was a very small role. And, you know, I was playing a moody vampire. It's like, you're like, it's, you know, it's, you're able. It's just there. It's on the table and you're like, you got it, can absolutely go and grab that, you know, whenever, in whatever world, in whatever sort of however long it's been since the last film, whatever it may be. And with this one, you know, it's just continually building. And I think that it's been really interesting as well to have the play on in London, which I went to go and see, which, you know, goes back to Henry before we met him in season four. And to have a lot of the questions or a lot of the thoughts that I'd had about that character kind of answered by watching the play and also discover more was really interesting for me, really, really interesting. And so yeah, it's just kind of building and building and building and building and building and continually growing. So yeah, it's not, I'm growing, it's growing, it looks amazing. We've got some incredible people going on. And just the level of detail, the level of detail, it was one thing about this show. I think even from season four, that really got to me in a good way. And this year is, is, is, is, is, is no exception to that. In fact, I'd say this year is ultimately even more, there's even more level of detail going in, which from an artist's standpoint just makes you go, ah, awesome. Like, you look around the room and you're like, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, great. Got it all. Fantastic. Thank you. Are you almost done filming? Or do you have a lot more to go through this summer? We've got a bit more to go through. We've done a lot of filming, but we do have a lot more to go. And so we're, we're going to be kind of locked down for some time. Good. That means a lot. It's a good stuff is coming. And because you're not busy enough, you have another project coming out at the end of June called Horizon. You are, I guess, kind of sticking to the, the country theme or at least the Western theme. Tell me about this movie and your role and what we can expect. Where do I even begin with this? Thank you so much. By the way, for bringing it up, I got a call. It was the summer, the show came out and I got a call about the movie and I got sent the script and I read it and I was just overjoyed. Like, it immediately, immediately made me terrified. It immediately made me excited. And I was just like, I've got to go for this. Like, regardless, I've just got to go for this. And I did the Zoom thing. I did the Zoom audition, which is always strange because, you know, there's this, we're not, I'm not sat in the same room as somebody. There's this level of, the sort of level of focus and interaction that you have to get with somebody through that is just 10 fold really. And then must have been a few weeks later. I get a call being like, okay, Kevin wants to have a Zoom with you. Kevin zoomed with me and told me I've gotten the gig and. Kevin Costner, by the way, for everybody listening. Sorry, yes, Kevin Costner, Mr. Costner. And I just, it just felt unreal. It just felt so unreal and cut to a few months later, you know, I'm out in Utah in the La Sal Mountain range. And I've got one more thing to say on this before I before I talk about the character and the filming general on a personal level, when season four finished, when we finished filming, we rented a camper van, a decked out van from this great company out in Denver. And we drove into into the mountains to a place called Crested Butte, beautiful camped out there for a few nights. And then we drove out to Utah. And we camped at this campground. And I'm not going to say the name of the campground because I want to keep it secret. But that campground ended up being base camp for Horizon. So going back there, having built and created these incredible memories of this landscape that is just otherworldly. I mean, it looks like Mars, like it just looks like Mars this place is unbelievable, was thrilling. It was thrilling to go back there. And it felt like home, again, talking about this idea of home. It just felt like home. And so I was so excited. So, you know, filmed a bit down there, filmed a bit up in the La Sal Mountain range. And just had the best time. And the film is amazing. I've been fortunate enough to see it now. And you know, all those old Western films, they're incredible. They're so beautiful. The storytelling's amazing. But we're in a totally different technological era now. So able to capture that landscape and these stories with the way that things look on screen, I saw 10 minutes of the film whilst I was when I had finished. I got invited up to Mr. Carson's base camp. He was like, staying up there after time, which was amazing, like in the mountains. I was like, Oh, dude, you're doing it. I love this. I got invited up to the trailer to watch a 10 minutes little reel. I burst into tears. I just fully wept in this trailer. And it just looks incredible. I'm born in 1988. So on a personal level, in a selfish way, which is okay. You know, Kevin Costner, the actor and the director is a huge part of my childhood, a massive part of my childhood. So to be stood there, opposite him, having him both direct and act with me, I felt like a kid in a candy store. Like, this is all my wildest dreams come true at one moment, in one moment. It's amazing. The story's amazing. He's amazing. The character that I play is just the meanest, baddest motherfucker. Again, I said, I spoke to my dad and I said to some other people, they know some text messages after watching it, just being like, this is a bad dude. Like, it's a bad, bad man. And I had so much fun with it. But again, you know, talk about imposter syndrome, my god. You know, I'm born in England. I'm not a cowboy, although, you know, we used to play that when we were kids, but like, you know, there's not me to be up in a mountain playing that. You're like, by God, I hope nobody sees through my bullshit right now. But I'm given this everything I've got, and I'm really grateful because, you know, on a, again, sort of, on a personal level, and you know, without, without, without two in my own horn, so happy that it translates, you know, the last thing I would want with that would be for that to not translate when a project like this means so much to me, means so much to Kevin, means so much to all the other actors involved. And I just wanted to give this everything that I had. Yeah, I loved it. Absolutely loved it. So much fun. First of all, I would be hard pressed to find a role that you can't do. It seems like everything thrown your way. You can kind of tackle and conquer. And, you know, I'd be shocked if there's an accent or voice work you couldn't do. So I'm not surprised that the, the Western, you know, twang is authentic for your character. And the world loves a Western. I mean, Yellowstone is so popular, and the resurgence of the genre is so major right now. I know everybody's really excited. So it comes out June 28. Go watch it in theaters. Get the epic taste of the West on the big screen. It's so fun. Jamie, man, I could talk to you for like four more hours, but in the interest of letting you have your day off, I'm going to wrap up this conversation with the title that comes from a question I ask all of my guests at the end of each episode. And that question is, what is one thing that you have never said before? I know you've done tons of interviews. You're a private person. You put out what you want. But is there anything that you would want to share today that's something you really haven't mentioned before? There's so much. I mean, there is so much. And, and as I've been kind of thinking about this, I've written so many things down. So many things down. You know, I started with the silly thing, you know, which I'll brush over quickly, which is that in my personal opinion, Pineapple does not belong on pizza. But I agree more. But, you know, on a more vulnerable and honest level, I think it's taken me and we started off by saying this. And I venture into some beautiful things within this. You know, it's taken me a long time to understand that life is varied, that it is sometimes tragic, that it is sometimes painful, but it can also be very, very beautiful. And holding space for all of that is is something that in my journey, I ran from for a long time. I ran from feeling sad or lost or whatever the things may be. And now with the knowledge and the blessings that I've had from other people, I feel comfortable enough to be able to hold space for all of that. And I think that one of the things that I've always been very passionate about, handing over, and it feels really with fear, is that for anybody going through any level of personal difficulty, particularly surrounding something like sobriety, there is a whole world waiting for you. And I need people, more than people need me. And sometimes, sometimes. And it is a journey and for all the hardships that you face, or for all the hardships that I face, on a daily basis, we will do in our own personal way. There is just so much beauty to be had. There really, really is. So, you know, I didn't grow up. I didn't grow up with a lot of sober role models, I didn't. Okay, was I looking for others that people that confirmation bias for say, was I looking at rock stars? Yeah, of course, of course I was. And we do, we glamorize that as a society, we do, we glamorize the idea of rock and roll. Cool, rock and roll is great. Don't get me wrong. Fantastic, hedonism, wonderful. Go for it. But we should also be glamorizing the other side of the coin as well. And that's something that I really want to do, is I really want to just be out there being like, hey, look, I'm not putting myself in a pedestal. Fuck no, I am not a fucking god. I get shit wrong all the time. I do not have all the answers. And that's why I need other people as well. I need other people to check me. I need to hear other people's stories. And I hope that as we grow as a society, we can encourage that conversation more because it's vital. It's vital. So, yeah, that's what I've got. Thank you for sharing that, man. When people like you open up and put out those messages and, you know, share something based on real past experience, it means so much more to so many. It's not coming from a place of of nowhere. It's coming from your life. And I think that glamorizing this part of your life where you are today is so important. And I think that's really cool. So thank you. Thank you for sharing that today. You're welcome. You're welcome. Thank you for having me. Thank you for receiving it. I appreciate it. Of course. Of course, Jamie. So everybody, you can go stream home. You can watch the new movie coming out, Horizon, June 28th. You can stay up to date on all things, stranger things. I know there's like blogs and accounts online trying to snap pictures and get more information as the season rolls out. But don't be trying to snap spoilers, y'all. Like, let's let the season come out in peace. But follow all of Jamie's stuff. He's up to so many good things. Jamie, like I said, I could have kept his conversation going forever. I'm going to let you go enjoy the rest of your day off or I'm sure you're prepping for tomorrow's scene work. But thank you for hanging out. I truly, truly enjoy talking to you. I appreciate it. Me too. Thank you. I've never said this before is hosted by me, Tommy Jadario. This podcast is executive produced by Andrew Publisi at I Heart Radio and by me, Tommy, with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've never said this before is part of the Elvastoram podcast network on I Heart Podcasts. For more, rate, review, and subscribe to our show. And if you like this episode, tell your friends. Until next time, I'm Tommy Jadario. The answers were there hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman. And this is Monster, hunting the long island serial killer. The investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the son of Sam, available now. Listen for free on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.