James Talarico’s HERETIC Pastor Exposed in Undercover Video (Pastors RESPOND) | Live Free with Josh Howerton

If you start with what people want, what people will listen to and what people are attracted to, you're going to end up with churches where everybody is welcome to Jesus and anything is accepted except clear Bible teaching. Jesus didn't either save our sins, you can trust her word or you can just read your Bible. I meet so many people who live with a perpetual fear that they haven't done enough for God. That's right. It's not about what you've done for Him. It's about what He did once and for all for you. Well, hey, Live Free Nation. Before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lake Point Church in Dallas, Texas, but the Live Free Nation is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, man, I wish I could be part of something like this. We want to invite you to take a simple next step and that is join us for church online. Every weekend, we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook and our church online platform and it's more than just watching a service. There are live hosts in the chat. Prayer teams ready to stand with you and people all around the world worshiping together in real time. And so whether you're exploring the faith coming back to church or just looking for a place to start, church online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Point. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend and now enjoy the podcast. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the Live Free Podcast. My name is Carlos Arasso and today I'm excited because I'm here with Pastor Josh Howard and Pastor Paul Cunningham. Hey, you know why I'm excited. What's up, man? I shot an armadillo this morning. Oh, I'm a real expecting that. Is it illegal? It's not illegal to do that in your property, is it? Is it illegal? I did. This will be censored. Put a rifle. Uh, no, it's my, my life. Oh, okay, tap, tap. He was like, on your property? Yeah, dude. Okay. No, no, I just went out and farted. Hey, you're from the Louisiana. Sorry for all of our people. Well, we were on breakfast. Did he mess with the flock? He mess with the flock. He got the glock. Oh, man, was this your first time shooting an armadillo? Yeah, I was. Oh, okay. Yeah, dude, he bounced around. Oh, no, I'm not going to. If you ever seen that, they call it the armadillo jump. Have you guys seen that? I guess a thing. Kim seen it. Okay. That's a thing. If you hit up, why are we talking about this? Sorry, I didn't mean to go on. We're going to talk about the Bible. Yes, we are. Well, we're going to have a good episode today because now that we know that you have shot an armadillo, and an armadillo, and they, and it jumped. You threw me off over here. We're going to talk about multiple things. Hey, chapter four of second Timothy, we are in week number eight of Fight the Good Fight Sermon series, which was really, has been really fun. Well, one of my favorites in a long time. You've done a great job. Bring the word. Thank you. We're going to be debunking one of the most, or some of the most common Christian heresies out there. Five. Yeah. We're doing five, right? Five. Five. Five. So we're going to do most five most common Christian heresies. We're going to be very careful to define what heresy means. Some of them among, uh, prosperity gospel. Yep. Yep. Maybe name it, claim it. Yes. Okay. Oh, yeah. I don't know. Okay. Okay. Some of them are things that people have been influenced by. And they don't know. That's right. Exactly. That's right. So yeah. We're going to be also reacting to this viral video of James Taylor Ecos pastor saying past tricks, past tricks, saying that Jesus did not die for us. Actually, dude, I think of heresy sometimes you're like, actually just see a Bible verse like float on your screen. I like, brothers, a lot of, I just saw a lot of Bible verses in the bad ones. Yeah. We'll get to that in a second. It's going to be interesting. Hey, we just came off of a huge celebration. Pastor Josh, would you please tell us what happened? Dude, uh, I never seen anything like it. I still haven't gotten the numbers. I think when it's all said and done, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go out on a limb. I'm gonna go out on a limb. I think this weekend we will have ended up, ended up abtizing well over 800 people just this weekend. I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna see anything like it. And I do want to say, uh, I've, uh, it was, I think it was Jonathan Edwards who talked about how when people are in the middle of a revival, a lot of times they don't know it because they treat holy things like they're common. I just want to remind everybody who's like, if you're part of Lake Point, that ain't normal. That ain't normal. The baptized 800 people in a weekend. And, uh, we ain't just good. That's a big deal, man. Glory to God. And it's not just the number. This is real people. Can I share like a couple super quick two stories? Can you pull out the younger kid? Uh, there you go. So he is engineering. And, uh, his story is that at some point he asked a lake point dad if he could date, um, his daughter. And, uh, Lake Point dad said, no, you need to come to church with me. And so he, when he invited him, he said, good job. Like I said, shout out, shout out. Unsafe kids can't date my daughter. No. That's right. So he said, yeah. He said, no, I don't want to go to church. And then months later, a friend of Andrin, uh, he invited Andrin to come to church and then turns up. It's the same church that he was already invited to. So he went to church. Uh, eventually God saved God and to root it, got baptized recently at Firewheel and is now serving with students. Let's go. Let's go. But is he dating the daughter? We shall find out stories on go. We shall find out. He's probably watching this right here. So please let us know in the comments section. And we'd love to find out. Here's one more. This is from Roy City campus. This right here is Ethan, uh, right there getting baptized. So Ethan and his wife were not attending church. He randomly randomly found the Roy City campus, gets plugged in, started serving in production. And at some point during baptism, we can recently he had a conviction, man, I've never been baptized before. And so he said, hey, uh, I want to get baptized. So somebody on our team said, let me get you a shirt. He says, no time. We got to do it now. So he just, so he just like ripped off his cowboy boots. He'll be in unit. There's some water right now jumped into the water and then got into rooted. And recently, he also had the privilege of baptizing his wife as well. Shout out to Ethan, bro. And so again, these are, we have literally thousands of stories. Praise God for that big celebration. Bro, that's that same, by the way, I just want to clarify that guy's not a unique. I just want to say I just want to, did I know? I don't know. I wasn't profused. But I'm glad to hear that. Um, then I know of good clarification. No, what can we do? A secondary celebration that is not as important or good as baptized in 800 people in a weekend. What do you got? We got to celebrate the Philpanthian visual episodes. Bro, come back. First of all, it was such a great episode. Um, I love being there with you. Where were you? Were you there? Oh, no, he wasn't there. Why were you there, bro? He was such a, it was such a brother presence of God in the room. It just fell. Paul, do you remember, uh, when you were supposed to be there? Sorry, go ahead. Let me just get this in here. The new Paul's never been to Israel joke. His Paul wasn't there for the Philpanthian visual episodes. Like literally right before you're filming, I get a call from my daughter's school saying she is throwing up. And I was like, uh, first of all, first responsibilities to dad, but I'm not going to lose. I was a little disappointed. Uh, Pastor, Pastor Philip, if you're listening or watching this, please come back as soon as you can. Please come back as soon as we can. This joke will not be long. No, let me just go ahead. Let me, let me celebrate real quick. So, so first of all, let's just go to that first one. You know, I mean, we're always celebrating a Protestant cast reformation day. Come on. So anytime we get father Mike, we got to celebrate it. By the way, we love our Catholic friends. We love love you. This is a sibling rivalry. It's fun. But anytime we get father Mike, we for the number one spot we got to celebrate. And then dude, so then, uh, this morning, I think it was to bring it back here, text to this. So on overall podcast globally, uh, pumped up this morning, we were at number six. I just want to say we're one spot away from Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan. Okay. So then this was, this is like the live free team text thread. This is what we're showing you. So then that somebody said, oh, we're one away from Joe Rogan. Then somebody text this picture, which I can't unsee. I will never unsee that. Uh, nervous Joe Rogan, nervous Joe Rogan. It's been pretty silent ever since that episode. It's been pretty silent. Joe, if you're listening your friend, and we love to hang some time. Yeah. And then we're, I'm going to have some fun, banter, uh, even more. Then this is last night. Go to the next one. So this is top trending podcasts in the globe on planet earth. And we, we passed, we passed Joe. So I just, I want to point this out. This is on per on episodes. That one episode. So I just want to point this out, man, like glory to God for at least one day. Two dudes talking about Jesus surpassed Joe Rogan for most trending podcasts in the world. And then, uh, hilariously, I'll give you another Sabrina, meme. Sabrina, you remember the, you know, the meme of, uh, uh, the shining where it's Jack Nicholson getting ready to, you know, obviously none of us have ever seen that movie. I've never seen it. You never shot, obviously, you could never see it. Never ever. Yeah. And, but there's a meme that we're all here. And, uh, where he's, he's coming through the, here's Johnny through the door. Yeah. Sabrina sends this boom. So again, I just, what I want to celebrate is for at least a day, two dudes talking about Jesus Christ, beaten Joe Rogan for the most trending podcasts in the world, the tide is turning. I mean, praise God. The tide is turning. I didn't put in the cashier a story. Please do. Please do. Cause even to connect to it back to the baptism thing, we celebrate the numbers and we celebrate that on the shame of the, because like, we, we want to get the word of God and help people develop a Christian worldview. And on the shame of the, we want to do that for as many people as possible. But what encourages the three of us and all of our team behind the scenes, the most is the stories we get. That's right. And I could tell countless, I get them every week. But I got one. Yeah. I got to meet actually guy in and our lobby this past weekend. Uh, he was coming down from El Paso. He was in town for work. But he told me he's like, one night he went to bed praying that God would kill him. Cause he didn't want to face another day. And his ask that God was take his life the next day. And the next day he turns on YouTube and finds our podcast. And then he says, "Your podcast saved my life." Now we know that he believes that God ultimately might save his life. But God used this to speak truth to him into him and encourage him into his heart. And so he just came up to me this past week and gave me a hug. I could tell others. I mean, there was one person who reached out on social media where she said, "I was deep into new age thought and practice and had all these questions and rejections of the Bible, but actually I was watching you guys that filled my life with biblical truth and now I'm a believer." You get stories like that and that's why it matters. I just always want to encourage people. It's like it's not simply about a number of rankings. It's because we know that the more that we can reach people with the word of God, the more it will change them. And so that's what we want to say about it. - The ranking comes and goes. - Yes, right. - The word of God remains for it. - Boom. - That's right. - But can I actually kind of do this? I've been wanting to do this for a long time. I'm not being weird. You've got to smile on your face. - No, just like an actual-- - By the way, you never know what can happen. - No, no, no. This is like an actual spiritual thing. I want to make a church history observation, Howard and the other Howard and my buddy, Jason Howard and over here. This is not related to me. We've talked about this. So, I got a theory and I'm going to zoom out and do a little church. We're going to do church history and everything for a second. I got a theory on something. Okay, so just go with me on this. Here's my theory. Virtually every great awakening and revival in history is preceded by some new mechanism or technology being leveraged for the spread of the gospel. So, bro, I want you to think about this. I'm going to connect some dots real quick. All right. So, first of all, yeah, I'm going to make two points. Okay, just check. So, first of all, you have the great awakening. That's Jonathan Edwards, George Whitfield. Listen to these dates. Like, just try to keep these in your head if you're listening. First great awakening, 1730 to 1740 is when they date it. Jonathan Edwards, George Whitfield. Okay, second great awakening. Typically dates, 1790 to 1850. That's Haystack Revival in Kentucky. Shout out Kentucky has run from. That's Charles Finney. That's Father Nash. All the stuff. Okay, third great awakening. 1910, 1919, 10. That's DL Moody. I think New York businessmen's revival is somewhere around that time. And then, bro, you fast forward again. Jesus Movement, Billy Graham, Crusades, all that stuff. The dates for that are typically 1960 to 1975. All right, now this is where my starts sweating a little bit. Let me, I'm going to point out two things. One, basically every revival in American history has been spaced almost exactly 50 years apart. Watch, watch. So first great awakening, 1730, 1740, fast forward 50 years, second great awakening, 1790, 1850, fast forward 50 years, third great awakening, 1919, 1910, fast forward exactly 50 more years, 1960 to 1975, Jesus Movement, Billy Graham, Crusades, Carlos and Paul. If you fast forward 50 years from about 1975, you know where you're at, you get about 2025, 2026. Now, this is really fascinating to me. Think about this. New technology being leveraged for the spread of the gospel. All right, check this out. I did this little homework this week. So the Protestant Reformation comes right on the heels, literally 50 years after the invention and mass production of the printing press. So for the first time in history, Catholic Church, sorry, Catholics, they can't contain like a doctrinal rebellion for the first time in history, okay? First great awakening, George Whitfield, he massed popularizes the concept of outdoor preaching and advanced marketing. Nobody had ever done that before. So for the first time in church history, he's getting ready to roll up in a some little town up in Connecticut or wherever he is. And for the first time in history, thousands of people know he's coming. So he can preach to 20,000 people in a field that had never happened before. So new technology, okay? Third great awakening, DL Moody, that's right after the mass production of newspapers that had never had before in human history, okay? Then, bro, you go even one more, Jesus Movement and Billy Graham crusades. So you got 19, you know, 1950, 1975, we're out, we're right there, 19, 6, 1975. Guess what had just happened? So for the first time in American history, every home's got a TV in a radio. So for the first time, people like, bro, there it is. And do you all just say this, when I look at stuff like that, and you got the number five trending podcast in on planet earth is about Jesus. Dude, there's part of me that's like, man, what if for the first time in human history, we figure out how to leverage this thing of like the little stupid podcast world and all this social media stuff that I always used to think was real dumb. But now what you're seeing is you're seeing stories of dudes walking into churches going, I was going to kill myself and then I turned on a dang podcast, hurt about the love of Jesus for me. So all I'm going to say is 50 years, 50 years, 50 years, 50 years, 2026, you got a new technology. And here I'll just finish with this. Habakkuk 3 2, oh Lord, I have heard the report of you and your work, oh Lord, do I fear in the midst of the years of Revive it and in the midst of our years of make it known. And Wrath, remember mercy, do it again Lord. Hey man, that's amazing. Now let me, let me, I'm a pitch to the ball back to y'all. You guys did a great episode last week without me. Thank you. Oh, thank you. You got, you got thought what, what do you think Carlos? Man, it was a, Paul did a great job, by the way. It's all right. It's all right. He did a great job. It was amazing. But there's one thing that I, I wouldn't get to get in there, but you know, I wish somebody would have taught me this when I first started reading the Bible. Right now we're getting thousands of people reaching out saying, hey, I'm a brand new believer, I've never read the Bible and I want to, I want to start. And they're asking questions like, how do you, how do I start reading the Bible? Where do I even start? So let me do something real quick, let me help you for this. So if you're, if you're that guy, if you want to know who Jesus is, read the book of John. If you want to go deeper in your identity in Christ, read the book of Ephesians. If you want to learn how to live in holiness in a culture that is godless, read the book of 1 Corinthians. If you want to have wisdom in life, read the book of Proverbs. If you want to know the origin of the universe and understand why everything is so broken today, read the book of Genesis. If you want to understand the gospel and you want to know what should I believe as a Christian today, read the book of Romans. If you want to understand life without God and why it is meaningless without Him and even if you achieve success, status, popularity and more, and still, if you don't have God, life will be meaningless. Read the book of Ecclesiastes. If you want to learn how to find joy in the midst of your suffering, if you're going through something difficult right now, but you are striving for joy in Christ, read the book of Philippians. If you want to hear how the church started initially and how the Holy Spirit empowered the church to do the supernatural things that were done at the time, and we still see those things, read the book of Acts. If you want to learn how to put your faith into practice, not just say that you believe something, but actually live it out, read the book of James. If you want to learn how to pray with honesty, if you're going through something difficult and you want to learn how to bring those emotions to the Lord in prayer, read the book of Psalms. If you want to see a brief preview of the future of what will happen and you want to hold on to a hold right now, everybody's freaking out about what will happen, what could happen, but you want to hold on to the hold that in the future, Jesus wins. He is still a Lord of Lord and King of kings, read the book of Revelation. Here's the point. St. Jerome, who was one of the most famous theologians at the time, I think it's AD 300, and who, by the way, translated the Bible to Latin, he's someone who wrote the Latin Volgate because he wanted other people to have access to it. He said this. He said, "The scriptures are shallow enough for a babe to come and drink without fear of drowning, and deep enough for a theologian to swim in without ever touching the bottom." Here's the point. You cannot read this book and not have it change your life. It will change you. Hope that helps. Boom. Boom. That was a good episode guys. I think we hang it up right here. That's a very helpful. That's funny. I'm reading Charles Spurgeon's biography right now. Literally last night, he basically has a riff on that Jerome quote. I didn't realize that you just said it. Spurgeon's quote was, "Nobody ever outgrows the scriptures. It widens and deepens with years." Dude, it's so funny, man, because like, you know, we've been studying the Bible, well, I've been studying the Bible now, 30 years, and honestly, it's really weird. In some ways, I feel like I know it less than I did back then, because the more you study, it's like you realize how much you didn't know. Yes. And honestly, it's just right. It's kind of exciting. Yes. Because honestly, like, you get to this spot where you're like, "I could plunge myself into this thing for the next 50 years of my life, and I'm still going to have some deep into the pool things that I get a saver." That's right. I think I'm fine, man. This is true by way of God's word, but then also of God himself. Theologians have sometimes used this phrase that God is infinitely noble. And the idea there is that we can know God for who He truly is. But we will never know God fully for who He is because He's infinite. And that's not bad news. That's actually good news. It means that we can spend the rest of our lives coming to know Him through His words, and never exhausted, but also means that in heaven, we will spend the rest of eternity coming to know God just a little bit more, day by day. And that's a good thing. Because think about it. They're now just sometimes they use this, like, if you've ever fallen in love, I don't know about you guys. Well, I'm assuming you fall in love because you're married. But I was very much fall in love with you. I preemptively said, but I was about to say, I got the cart before the horse because I don't know about you guys. But what we do, when I mean our first, first I need to date and fall in love, so we're just asking each other questions. And it's like the more, that's where I was going with that. The more we came to know each other, my love for her and my appreciation and the joy deepened the more came to know her. And it's amazing. That means, theologians said, your joy in God and your love for God will only ever expand for eternity. Because he's infinitely noble. And if that's true, if that's going to happen in eternity, why not start now by coming know his word more every day. I'm excited again to the word hey before we do it, that's a cool hat, Pastor Josh, if people are watching. It's so cool. That's what if it's so cool. Look at this guy. Man, it's so cool. It's so cool. If you want that hat, you can get it. So you're gonna get free that shot. I actually think it's cool. I look like a idiot doing that. I actually think it's really good. Text the word hat to 20411 or go to lipfree.shop. Be really helpful. Because I personally pocket every dollar to become a millionaire celebrity pastor. So it really helped me. That's right. That's a joke. And you're gonna also look as good as he does. Right? Can I just clarify because the internet will love that so that I don't get a dollar. I've like not one penny when we when you buy a hat that just helps us fund the podcast. Yeah. Just as they were cutting all that. Yeah. When you wear that hat, you not only look more like him, you also like your your arms get a little bigger. Oh, dude. You know. What? Can I see one more thing and then we're actually gonna get into the work. You're welcome. You're welcome. We're getting into the work. You know, at the end, I asked him to pray for me. Yeah, that was it. You saw this. I asked him to pray for me. And he just instinctively reached out his hand. You know, I was like, hey, let me pray for you. Now, what was awesome is one of our team back there. It's very kind of them. That's like a close up shot of this prayer moment. It was a close up shot. Here's a close up shot of a man. Look at that. Wow. Wow. That's exactly the same photo for sure. Yeah. That's awesome. All right. We'll be in there. Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Pastor Josh. What are you going to make it to the sermon? All right. A lot. A lot for you to allow it, man. Yeah. Oh, wait asking again. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. I will allow it. Okay. Let's keep traditions traditions. Let's keep it going. Yeah. This is a very emotional sermon to prepare for because what you're doing right here is you're preaching the final words the Apostle Paul is really functionally what you're doing. Dude, actually, hey, Kim, could I, I will actually get a sprite. Can I get a sprite? Yeah. Thank you. There was, so let me, let me set this up real quick because I'm just going to read them. Yeah. And if you're listening, like, I want you to imagine why I read these final words. I want you to imagine this is your spiritual father. Let's say you're, let's say you're a guy or a girl. You don't even have, you don't even got a dad. And then the Godliest man this ever lived, not named Jesus, just sort of steps forward. And he's like, Hey, I want to be your spiritual dad and what I'm going to read here in a second are his final words. He says over you. But, dude, I want to, uh, do you know the story of Michael Cardin, Bill Lane? I think so. Okay. I'm, so like, it is not often you see an actual representation of what the Apostle Paul did. All right. So, for, uh, I'm an 80s baby, but the 90s made me, so for anybody that Carlos, you're not going to understand any of this. Just roll with it. Okay. Back in, uh, back way back in the, uh, the late 1900s when, you know, we rode down a source to school. And, uh, there, the, this guy right here, we go and show that patient this guy, uh, this guy right here was the most famous, uh, musician, uh, yeah, that guy right there was the most famous Christian musician in the world. Uh, doesn't exactly look like a rock star. No. Uh, do you know who that is? Oh, actually, I already said it. It is Paul. No. That's Michael card. Okay. Same's Michael key. Bro, where were you? Come on, bro. I know. I'm just like six months younger than you. I guess I totally missed it. He's like, whoa, whoa, you're all right. We were receiving Curtis Chapman family. I know. Yeah. All right. So, here's the story. Christian artist. Yeah. Christian artist. Uh, absolutely blue. Four million album sold. Ninth. Nineteen number one hits. Like the guy he grushed. Um, Michael card later in his life wrote a book, show that book real quick. It's about an 80 page book. You can literally read it in one setting. It's called the walk. Oh, yeah. Okay. All right. Now, check this out. So, and I got a point to this. We're actually, I'm taking you into the scriptures. So, Michael card tells the story. He gets to Western Kentucky University in Bologna, Kentucky. Uh, either he's a baby Christian or something like that. And, uh, there's a professor there. Uh, the guy's name was Bill Lane. He's a Christian professor. Michael walks in his office, asked him a question by the Bible. And Bill Lane just says this. He says, take a walk with me. Michael card's freshman year. He starts taking one walk per week with this older senior saint. Godly man named Bill Saint. And for the next six years of Michael card's life, they take a walk every week. And a godly man who's a spiritual father to Michael card just walks with him. Talks about Jesus. Talks about the Bible. All right. Now, that's really cool. Effects Michael card's life. Then Michael card moves away from Bologna and many years pass. Fast forward many years. Michael card is now a guy that sold four million albums. He's had 19, uh, number one hits. And, uh, he and his wife, they're grown. They live in Nashville. And Bill Lane, uh, is across the country at Seattle Pacific University. Okay. Michael card gets his phone call from Bill Lane one day. And, uh, Bill tells Michael. He hadn't talked to him in a long time. And he says, Michael, uh, I just received a terminal cancer diagnosis. And I just want to call you and tell you. And, uh, and Michael thought Bill was calling to say goodbye. And Bill said, no, no, no, that's not what I'm calling. Bill said, no, what I'm doing is me and my wife are moving back to Nashville to be close to you. Because the greatest act of my discipleship of you is about to begin. And then he said, I now will show you how a Christian man dies. And he spends the last time of his life taking more walks with Michael card, showing him how a Christian man dies. Now, when you get to second Timothy chapter four, many years ago, the Apostle Paul saw this kid, uh, named Timothy. And you know what he did. He looked at little Timothy and he said, Timothy, walk with me. And for the next 15 years, the Apostle Paul walked an estimated 3000 miles with his little kid, fatherless kid named Timothy, changed his life. What you have in second Timothy chapter four, remember this. One of the last things Paul does is he tells Timothy, come to me quickly. And what the Apostle Paul is literally saying to Timothy, is he saying, Timothy, I will now show you how a Christian man dies. Now, before I read the final words, the Apostle Paul, because he deserves some honor, reverence, glory here. It is the responsibility that we do not talk about very often in the church. It is the responsibility of every Christian man and woman to show the people around us. To show the people around them. This is how a Christian man, this is how a Christian woman dies. And here's what I'll say, that responsibility begins today. We are right now, careening towards our deathbeds. And we want to be able to say like the Apostle Paul, my life was poured out and it was worth it. So with that in mind, let me read this. I'm just going to point out a few things to people. I probably wouldn't think about the final words of the Apostle Paul. I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead. And by His appearing and His kingdom, preach the Word. Be ready in season and out of season. Reprove, rebuke and exhort with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming, this is going to sound familiar. When people will not endure sound teaching or sound doctrine. But having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions. And they will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. But as for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering. Do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering and the time of my departure has come. Now listen, listen, bro. If anything on earth you want to be able to make your final words to your son or spiritual son, verse seven is it. I have fought the good fight. I have finished the race. I have kept the faith. And henceforth there has laid up for me the crown of righteousness with the Lord, which the Lord, the righteous judge will award to me on that day. And not only to me, but to all who have loved His appearing. I just want to say this. Well done. Good and faithful servant to the Apostle Paul. Let me just point out a few things real quick here. And this can be a weird couple of minutes because Paul's talking to a preacher. And so I'm going to just like take a second for like people who are listening. There's a few things here that I want you to understand in the heart of your preacher, whether you go to like point or any church that hang off this. So let me just do a couple of things real quick. One, he starts going, "I charge you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus." What he's doing is he's gone. And you remember who you're working for. And I just want to remind people of this because sometimes people can be real hard on pastors. They can be real hard on them. There is a danger for pastors. And if you're a fellow pastor, I want to warn you of this danger. That especially with kind of this like a movement that has some really good things in it. But maybe a couple of things could have been different called the attraction church movement. The danger that pastors have is they'll get into this thing. It's like, the first thing in their head is I'm trying to attract the people, attract people, attract people. Well, hey man, you remember this, like, hey dude, I'm not preaching for people. I'm not standing before people. I charge you in the presence of God in Christ. I'm working for for God. And if you're not careful, Brian, and we're going to talk about here in a second, Chad G. Paul C's going to talk about like five common American heresies. And basically, I'm going to tell you this, almost every single one of them, they begin with a Bible teacher who forgot the fear of God. And he forgot that the person who he's working for more than any people are Jesus Christ himself. Okay. Because if you start with what people want, what people will listen to and what people are attracted to, you're going to end up with churches where everybody's welcome, but Jesus and anything is accepted except clear Bible teaching. So I just want to like men, whether you got a like point or you got any other church, I just want you to know this. I'm not preaching for you. I'm preaching to you. Your pastor's, he's preaching to you. He's not preaching for you. He's preaching for God. Okay. And what you got to do is a preacher is if you preach the word of God, the word of God attracts the presence of God. And the presence of God will try the people. You just preach the word man. So he says that. Then, and I'm not, this is this can be a little bit weird. Then he goes, Hey man, you know, preach the word. I will just say this. People ask us a lot in comments when we get these emails like, Hey man, how do I know if I'm in a good church, you know, how do I know, you know, we actually got a pod coming out soon. How do I know I'm at a good church or whether I should leave? There's a lot you could say. Honestly, man, number one, are they preaching the word? Yeah. So are they preaching the word? Okay. Now listen, are they preaching the word? Not not somebody's opinion, not a TED talk, not four jokes and three stories and one verse in a poem. No, no. Is that man open in that thing? The sword of the living God and choosing violence. Like, obviously, that's like how I think I'm like, I'm opening that thing on the choose violence. The Bible calls itself a sword for a reason and is the preaching a word. And I'll just do it. I'm going to defend. I'm going to defend and encourage pastors a couple of times in this in this in this pod. If you're a pat, here's a deal, man, the world has an unspoken agreement with pastors. If you take it easy on us, we'll take it easy on you. And the second you start opening that book and you are willing to preach the entire word of God, what the Apostle Paul calls the whole council of God. If you start doing that and you start choosing a little violence every now and then, I'm going to warn you right now, all hell will break loose. But so will all of heaven. So the question you're asking is, man, like, okay, am I going to be good church? Are they preaching the word? Okay. No, they're not preaching some of the word. So I'm going to give you actually, this is weird. Just go with me or Carlos. This is not on our little game plan. Like I'm going to give you one, two, three, four, five, uh, I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you five. I'm going to give you five tests. If you're sitting in a church like, man, how do I know if they're preaching a word? I'm not saying this is all you could say. I'm saying, here's five little things to watch out for. Okay. Now, here's why I say this. Uh, there's a quote that's attributed to Martin Luther. Uh, that's it's fire. Uh, Martin Luther supposedly said, you probably heard this for the if I profess a loudest voice. Yeah. Okay. He's supposed to. It's true, Martin Luther. If I profess with a loudest voice and the clearest exposition, every portion of the truth of God except that one little point, which the world and the devil are at that moment attacking, I am not confessing Christ. However, boldly, I might be professing Christ. Well, listen, where the battle rages, they're the loyalty of the soldier is proved. And to be steady on all the battlefield besides is mere flight and disgrace if he flinches at that one point. So bro, that's fire, bro, injected into my veins. Wow. All right. Now, listen, so I'm going to give you five tests because like what can happen is you can be in a church where the somebody opens the book and they read a verse. We're actually going to we're in some video at the end of like an actual heretic who they do. They open the they open a book with leather on the edges of it. And they read verses, but they are actually explaining. I'm going to talk about this more in a second. Bro, here's your I'm not going to give it away yet. There. Yeah. Okay. Here. So here's what you're asking. Here's five tests. And don't get too legalistic on this. You got to give grace. Like give the benefit of it out. Look for the ways where I can see how they were doing that. Like I hate. It's the most annoying thing ever when everybody starts interpreting all the pastors and the worst possible light. And then shooting people who don't does this dumbest like we literally have Bible verses. Watch out the unit not bite and devour one another. Like these are like literal Bible. So quit doing that stupid stuff. But but I will say here's like a couple tests. Okay. So are they flinching at the points that are that are going to get you a little hot water. So there's obvious things. If you want going to church especially in the Northeast or in Austin. And there's a pride flag or a BLM flag like to run. Just get kids out. Get you know everybody's run. Just run. Okay. Here's test number two. Is the gospel clear? And here's why me by that. Listen real close. You're not here and like I'm kind of a mistake or in need of a life coach. You're here and no, no, you're a sinner and need of a savior. And real, real good news. Jesus is better at saving than you aren't sinning. You know, like you need to hear like is the gospel clear? You're a wretched black hearted sinner. Jesus is a really awesome savior. Yes. If you if you don't get him, you're on a hell like. Give me a little fire and brimstone but with a heart that doesn't want you to end up there. That's what you're okay. Number three. And this is like I'm doing things where it's like these are the spots on the battlefield. Okay. Are they clear on gender marriage and sexuality? Yes. Like if if you start here's what you're watching out for. If you start noticing anytime they're they hit a passage and they're talking about gender marriage and sexuality. Listen real close. And they're actually not explaining what the word says. They're explaining away what the word says. Bro, the number of sermons you listen to and they get to that stuff. And the sermon is actually explaining away what you just read. And not explaining what you just read. Bro, having more often you think. Yeah. So are they clear on gender marriage and sexuality? Okay. Number four. Do this. Now just go with me. Just don't rage at me in the comments until you hear what I'm gonna say. Here's why I would just gently say. Are they willing to pastor the women? And dude, here's why I say this. Okay. Now just just go with me. All the caveats men and women are equally sinful. No one is like men and women equally sinful. All the things. But I'll just tell you from experience. When you pre you I did that whole eight week series few years ago. I like man. You can get up and open that book and yell at men and beat them over the head and you know, get your action like you can go hard at dudes. And it will get you a clap homojis and fire homojis and your sermons will get shared a billion times. What can happen? By the way, one thing that is very different about lake point is lake point women are the opposite of this. They are the opposites. It is a huge. In fact, I'm a brag on this. The most viewed sermon I have ever preached at lake point is four sons of a god, four traits of a godly woman. I think that's what's called on YouTube. Because the women of lake point here, listen, here's my thing. I refuse to rob the women of my church of the discipleship they need to become everything god wants them to be. So here's what I'm saying this is what can happen for pastors. You preach a sermon to dudes. You get all the cheering. You give even a gentle admonition to some churches ladies. And you just better buckle up. You're going to catch it in the teeth for the whole week. So I think you just need to go man. Are they willing to pastor everyone and confront the sins of everyone? I think that's a legitimate question. Last thing I say here is here's your last little test. Actually two more. There's a, I call them there's two types of sermons. There's come and live sermons. And those are the, you know, Jesus is the water of life and the encouraged, fulfill your calling the Lord is for you. And then there's going die sermons. Go pick up your cross. Amen. Do not be surprised the surprise of the world hates you. I came to a conviction a few years ago when I was preaching through Jesus warning about the end times where he goes and you will be hated by all, you will be hated by all men for my namesake. And it was like legitimately a point of conviction where I was like, Oh, I have not done a good job preparing my people to be hated by all men for his namesake. So ask yourself the question, is am I only hearing come and live sermons or am I also getting the come and die sermons because those are in the book too. I think that's one. That's great. Last few things here. Do they call sin sin? Yes. Not a struggle. Not, you know, not an illness, you know, here's what you're watching out for in our culture. What people did today, sin is called sickness. So we think it just requires therapy, not repentance. So there you will sometimes see this where it's like, actually, you're just always the victim and it's an illness and you it's like, ah, well, actually, you're the villain. You need to be broken. And they even, like, it's in the past. So someone else broke you. So we got to just sort of, yeah, yeah. And what stuff is bro, sometimes it's true. It's true. It's not, it doesn't have to be either or, but that's where the print, like, significant accident is on now is the emphasis is on that. That's it. The biggest problem in your life. I don't know. This is tough, man. And I say this with like a gentleness in me because how deeply some people have been hurt by evil people. The biggest problem in your life is not that somebody else hurt you, is that you hurt Jesus. And you are estranged from the living God and you need the gospel and a savior. So do they call sin sin? And then, you know, last thing I already said, it is just listen close. When I read tough parts of the word, are they explaining it? Or are they explaining it away? Any other thoughts there in the comments before I move on here? What do you got Paul? I think really just come around something you said at the beginning. As you're doing that, use these appropriately in this sense of whatever church you're at, or if you're maybe new to an area and you're going around and trying to find your church, look for overall patterns. And look, and so in other words, it's not that every week they have to do all of those five or six. I don't. It's more just look like I like to, even I was, I did a teaching for our worship team a week or two ago, just on the theology of worship. And we're just like, man, like Christian worship, I'm going smart with this should be Christian. In other words, man, it should be Trinitarian shaped, it should be gospel influence, all those things. And the point that I kind of made with them, that I'd say the same thing as people were evaluating preachers is like, hey, over the course of eight weeks and the songs that we sing when people hear the gospel, what they get the idea that God has Father's Son and Holy Spirit. So in the same way, all those things is like, man, think over the course of eight to ten weeks. Are you hearing those kinds of things consistently? So that's just right. I think that's both a good way to say, hey, man, like to make sure you're at the right church is preaching the word faithfully, but also we don't want people to go into the other ditch, which is becoming hyper critical of every central sermon. We, we will excommunicate you from live free nation. If you become that jerk, the jerk for Jesus that ruins every church, because that, you know, it's like, that's not our thing. Don't do that. So that's just the one that just stay on the road, don't go into other those two ditches. Yeah, we, and we get people come and speak very highly of Lake Point and, you know, speak very highly obviously of you, Pastor Josh. But again, just to emphasize that, I think it is interesting for me coming from a different culture in a different country as well. I feel like here in America, man, that the honor and respect for pastors is like zero. Like generally speaking, obviously, like when you just go on eggs and poor, give me the difference between South America. Yeah, I mean, there's at least like if you disagree with somebody, man, at least you got to recognize, man, that man is like trying to labor for the Lord. And there's some aspect of respect. I guess you, you, maybe this is true in some aspects of like the black church or like, you know, some non-white churches, I guess. There's at least a level of like, man, let me at least call you with a proper title or some sort of like, there's a difference to it. Default honor. Yeah, but here, where you go on eggs and like that one pastor that you have, you have no visibility over what they're doing. You're like taking shots like he's your best bud from college. And it's like, and I'm, I'm surprised. I'm going to grade his enemy from church. Or your greatest enemy. That's right. That's right. And, and it's just like no respect, no honor, no reverence. And, and to me, again, a lot of these pastors, yeah, if you see somebody that is heretical, you call them out. But when you see somebody that you just maybe have a slight disagreement in their ministry philosophy, at least you should, you, in fact, I think that we, a Bible verse says, first Thessalonians chapter five verse 12 says, hey, respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and it monitors you and esteem them very highly in love because of their work. I feel like when I was in college and then you you get all, you start reading a bunch of books and you think, you know, everything and you don't, then you go to church and be like, oh, you're not preaching the gospel as you should, right? Yeah, I did that. I got a repent for that. But, so don't be that guy and show them grace, man. The pastor in his heart. Yeah. It's difficult. It's a lot, it's a long bit. And so, so a lot of, and again, a lot of these pastors, you know, they're figuring it out. That's right. We're learning. We're all learning here. Yeah. Yeah. Man. Good word. That's, I'm going to say that here. So the, the big headline is chill out bro, chill out bro. That should be your next poster now. Chill out bro. All caps. Let me just say a couple of things. He talks about pre-sword in season and out of season. And man, I, I will just say it's, you know, it's really interesting. When you go, Janet, I've spent a little time in Europe. And, you know, in season out of season, like, there's some seasons where it's like, that's a little easier to grow tomato than another season. Yeah. There's some seasons. There's some soil where it's a little easier to grow a coconut tree, a punty call this palm tree. Uh, then, then, so what Paul is saying is, man, there's going to be sometimes some places where, uh, hey dude, you can have all the right fertilizer. You can be doing all the things. You can give it all your energy. You can water it on the right schedule. And bro, you, you, you can get very little fruit. There's going to be some seasons like that. You know, if you go to Europe, uh, like we just talked about Martin Luther and Protestant Reformation, you go to Germany. I look this up this week. There was a time where the greatest revival in the world was happening in Germany today. It's 1.7% Bible believe in Christian. Uh, we preached through Revelation two and three letters to seven churches. Uh, that was literally the global staging ground for the move of God in the entire world in the first century. Today, you're going to go there. You're going to see Minerets and mosques. It's less than 1% Bible believe in Christian. Uh, and, you know, you're so different things. What he's saying is, hey man, don't matter. Like you just keep doing your thing. Maybe your workplace looks a little different. It feels a little different. That's all right. You know, in season two season, you just keep being faithful. A couple of other things I'll say. And dude, let me just, yeah, man, let me get, let me get one one last thing here. Um, one of the great questions of this passage is how can a man who spent, uh, more than half of his life hating, uh, God, murdering Christians and blaspheming Christ? How can that guy say, you know what? I thought a good fight. I ran a good race. And dude, I actually, uh, this is like my favorite part of the passage. What some Christians will do. This is a great little watch out. What some Christians will do is they'll mess up the stuff in their life, uh, or people who are not Christians like, oh man, you know what I need? I need a second chance. And you're honestly, and well, meaning Christians, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. They're talking about he's the God of second chances. And in one sense, I kind of get what you're saying. But in another sense, I'm like, bro, you don't need a second chance. If he gave you a second chance, you're going to screw that one up to, yeah, out of the man, you know, out of the frying pan into the fire, you know, out of the food addiction, into the born addiction, you know, whatever it is, you're going to screw that one up to. Um, you don't need a second chance. Here's my, here's the analogy I like to use. Um, we have, I got three very, very smart kids. Not all of them are awesome at math. Okay. Uh, if I gave, and I'm not saying she's the one, but if, uh, if somebody put a calculus to exam in front of my 15 year old alienna, right? I'm just going to tell you, it don't matter how many chances you give her, she's not going to, she's not going to fail, fail, fail, no matter how many chances you get. So listen, listen, listen, I love this. What she doesn't need is the second chance. What she needs is a substitute. She needs somebody, she needs somebody who can walk in the room and say, hey, get up and let me take that test for you and sit down and they can ace the thing. And what Jesus Christ did when he came to this planet is he looked at all of us, screw ups, all of us rough around the edges. There's guys that are listening to your behind some bars in a correctional facility and he looked at us and he was like, hey, man, it really don't matter how many chances I give you, you're going to screw that one up to. Why don't you let me step in and take the test for you and then he came and he lived the perfect life that we could not live, died the death that we deserved and God made him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that in him we might become the righteousness of God. So I got a buddy that says like this, he says, dude, this is so free. He says, in the Christian life, there are no second chances. There's just the blood of Jesus and from now on. Oh, wow. Wow. And what he's saying, dude, is so let's go back to the original question. How can a guy who spends more than half of his life murdering Christians and blaspheming Christ to get the end of his life and say, you know what, man, fought a good fight, ran a good race. Well, here's why because the Apostle Paul could also say, I, the old me, have been crucified with Christ. Yeah. And it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. Come on, man. It's awesome. Anyone who is in Christ is a new creation. Lucas pass in the newest come. Dude is the best. Last couple of things. And then I want you to do the five most common because there are, there's why we're doing this. Bro, can I interrupt? Please. I was just notified right now over here on my fake headphones that, uh, that we just surpassed Joe Rogan. Right there. It's literally like right now. Hang it in the loop. Hang it in the loop. We're gonna put it right here in the wall over here. This is a little bit smaller in this picture now. Go team Jesus. Go. We prayed for this. We've got, we've got, that's all we've got. We got, well, we got, we're going to frame it. And just some things only happen through prayer and fasting. This is probably might be one of those. That's amazing. Listen, you know, who gets the shout out there, live free nation. That's right. That's a live free nation. Exactly. You just toppled Joe Rogan for most listened podcasts in the world. That's insane. That's insane. So let's keep talking about Jesus. So here in a second, you're going to do, I want you to do five most common, uh, heresies, uh, in American culture. There's a bunch of, that people may have actually been influenced by. They don't know it. Exactly. And we're going to give a bunch of caveats so you don't become a jerk for Jesus to start shooting people who don't need to be shot. That's right. That's right. But, but I do want to say this. Hey, live free nation. Let's have fun with this and swing some elections in all seriousness. Midterm elections are obviously coming up in November. In the state of Texas, estimated 16 million Christians and the mid-term elections coming up in November will be decided by predicted actually about 300,000 votes. So what this means is if Christians do their job as salt and light in the world, good things really easily happen. So what we've done at Live Free Nation is we actually built a website to help mobilize Christians to do our job as salt and light inside. So you can simply text the word vote to the number 2041, text the word vote to 2041. And we have built a website all at our own expense to help Christians remember to vote leading up into the midterms because the number one reason that Christians don't vote especially in mid-term elections is they just forgot. So with one text vote to 2041, you will get one text which is a link to the website where you can put in your address, we do not keep any of the information and it will tell you where the polling location is for voting in your area when to come and what in your area you need to bring. Again, we keep absolutely none of the data and we will send you that text and then only one other reminder text right before midterms. So let's have some fun with this. Text vote to 2041 and we'll see what Live Free Nation can do. So here's the lead in to what Paul's about to do. So Paul says, so Chad G. Paul sees who I'm talking about, now I'm talking about the Apostle Paul. So the Apostle Paul, he does this thing and he goes, hey, he goes, hey, here, watch out. Well, listen, listen, listen, watch out. The time's coming when people will not endure sound teaching, most translations say sound doctrine is the same word. But having, watch, itching ears, this is really helpful. He says having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves, teachers to suit their own passions. Okay. So itching ears. He's saying, there's a type of person and if you're listening to this right now, this could be you and you don't even know it's you and you need to make sure it's not you. Because if it's you, you're going to put yourself under Bible teaching that is going to be awful for you, awful for your family. And if it's especially certain kinds of Bible teaching, it's going to lead your family to hell. So what he's saying is, watch out. There's a certain type of person, they don't want the truth. They just want relief. So here's what he's going to do. Itching ears. You ever had like a real, like Carlos, did they have the, do you ever have chicken pox? Or did, yeah, we do actually, and I actually had it. Oh, did you? Okay. Because now they got a vaccine and then you people don't give it to acknowledge you. We didn't have it at the time, I suppose. But did you have it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Literally everyone. No, no, no, no, no, no. Just new generation though. Like my wife didn't have it. Kids these days. Oh. Yeah. These days was wrong. But when you got like a terrible, think about it, you got a terrible itch. It's just like. It won't go away. Like your kids are not going to have it, right? No, they won't have it. They've got a vaccine now. Yeah. So you've got a really, really terrible itch. Yeah. Like you'll do, you'll do anything to relieve the feeling. What he's saying is you better watch out. Because if you let a desire that start as a foothold become a stronghold in your life and it becomes chokehold, he's saying that desire will become so big in you. Watch. You'll eventually get to the spot where you don't want to preach, who tells you truth. You just want to preach your, who gives you relief from the feelings of guilt you have for satisfying that sinful desire is when you better watch out. Because the time will come when in another epistle he says, their God is their belly. They glory in their destruction is what he's saying. He's saying that all they care about is their appetites and desires, okay? So then what people do watch, they'll say stuff like this. And dude, if you're doing this, I'm praying the Holy Spirit right now graciously in his love for you shows you that's what you're doing. So you can run man, run and get somewhere where you can get the word of God. What people start doing is they start going, I don't like that. That pastor, because he said I was wrong. And I do like that pastor, because he said I was right. Okay. Well, listen, bro, if that's you, you're not even looking for the truth. You're just looking for somebody who will tell you what you want to hear. So what you're watching out for is watch the order with which you listen to Bible teachers. It's about order. Itching ears is starts with my desires. And you're willing to change what word you will hear to make your desires feel better. People who are like actual disciples, what they do is they start with what the word of God says. And they let it change their desires to make them more godly. So there's this famous and it's actually really, really mean, it's like it's actually savage. There's this famous story about Tim Keller who's hugging Jesus to shout out, Tim Keller can't wait to come hug you in heaven where he tells the story when it's very savage, where college students would come back, you remember, you know, college students come back from college and like, man, pastor, I'm deconstructing my faith, man, pastor, I'm just, I'm rethinking religion and God. And Tim Keller, this is so savage. Tim Keller would go, oh, let me ask you a question, who are you sleeping with? And he was like, his point was like 95% of the time. And here's his point, their, their desire for a sin became so big that they were willing to change what word of God they were willing to hear. That's what Paul's talking about when he goes, the time's gonna come when people won't put up with sound teaching. They'll have itching ears and they'll just go go find whatever Bible teacher will affirm whatever desires they have. And I'm just gonna tell you right now, bro, I'm gonna tell you right now, I don't care what weird, deranged, gross thing you believe desire and do, I don't care what it is, you can find some Bible teacher on the internet somewhere who's got more degrees than Fahrenheit who will spend all their time explaining away what the word of God says, instead of explaining to you what the word of God says, and if that's you, you have itching ears and you're not putting up with sound teaching. Now, Paul, why don't you tell us five itching ear thing? So here's what we just wanna do is we just wanna help disciple people. I'm gonna give a very strong caveat. Yes. The whole thing we were talking about earlier, there's more verses in the New Testament about him and preserve unity. Watch out that you do not bite into power one another, that all the things. There is a difference between, uh, I disagree with that Christian on a doctrinal issue, and they're a false teacher, a wolf and a heretic. Those are different things. That's right. So what we're gonna do right now is five common, do you wanna use the word heresy? Is that the right word? Yeah, I was actually, I think it could be false teachings. And then within these, there could be like levels of heresy, because I even think in this segment, I kinda lay out what heresy is not, and what it is, and kind of just give some to the Cavist. Cause I think, for example, I'll go to say one thing, it's not, not every disagreement amongst Christians is heresy. I know. So like, one thing that drives me crazy, for example, is like, we got into this a few weeks ago in the podcast on Calvinism on Arminism, and often times I'll see them call each other heretic. Yes. So do false teachings. It's so stupid. Because there are certain things that faithful, Bible, believe in Christians have simply disagreed over, because the Bible presents some tensions. And just because we disagree doesn't mean you're heretic. And so we got to be really clear on that, but I'm going to give some caveos. But I think like, what we want to do is, is hey, here are five and more common ones. It's not exhaustive and that we're not listing all of them. We're just giving five, and we could do an episode on each of these. So just know as we're walking through them, we can't give everything. We're just going to kind of give some basics. But before I jump in, even to those, okay, if I give some more of the other caveos, like, here's the thing, I say is false teaching is the broader category. You can have false teaching that is dangerous, that you do want to avoid and run from. But if we say heresy, heresy is really more like, hey, they're attacking a level one issue. And a level one would be like, who is God, the trendy, the divinity of Jesus, the reality of the resurrection or hey, if you disagree or teach false things on that, we have a different faith. It's not that we disagreed to, I mean, agree to disagree. We have a different faith, and it's a different level of error. That being said, do you guys actually know what the word heresy actually means? I actually don't. I have a theory. I have a theory. Heterodox. Okay. I suppose to orthodox ortho means straight, hetero means crooked. It can, but it also literally the original. And this is not about that carless. This is evolved. Well, I think it's going to go into here in a minute. I wrote a book of heresy while I'm back. That's what I say. All right. All right. Did you really? I did. What was it called? Do you not remember? No, it was called heresy. Oh. My professor said. Ah. Who? By G.K. Chester. No, he said he wrote a book. Oh, I read it. He has. He didn't remember the title of the book. Did you say that? No. I read a book. I did not write a book on heresy. I wrote it. Did you G.K. Chester and heresy? Ah, no. It was another feeling. Let me look over here. I'm going to quote him in a second, man. A wonderful Catholic believer. He's a stud. No. It was a Alistair McGrath. Oh. Alistair. Great guy. Alistair. Another one on heresy. We're ahead. I go ahead. I go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. So literally, the original idea of heresy, it can just mean a choice of beliefs or a choice or I'm going to take something for myself. So the idea is instead of receiving what the Bible clearly teaches in what the church across all time and all over the world has consistently taught, I'm going to choose to adopt a different set of beliefs that either contradicts or restores what the word clearly says or Christian history clearly says. So that's the idea. We're also of heresy. We really have any false teaching. I love how GK Cheshire once said, he says, it's a truth that hides all the other truths. So a big idea of false teaching of heresy is even when I go through some of these, I'm going to describe some of their beliefs and some of them is because they actually take some truths from scripture, but then they either deny or distort the other truths that counterbalance it. So I see that another way to think of heresy is every heresy is an orthodox belief or right belief that's lost its counterpoint. And in the early church, for example, on Jesus, it was like some people were like, oh, he's fully gone. but he wasn't really a human, he only appeared that way. So he was fully God, but they lost the counterpoint that held it in tension with each other. - It's good. - Same thing in these. And we're going through these. What kind of what I want to do is basically, will this list the hair scene? Then I think you-- - We have a meme for each. - Yeah, I think we have that a meme for each. - That's a secret talent in mind, go ahead. - So will this, what I wanted you to create these memes? - Some, 'cause I couldn't find a good one. - Really? - Yeah. - Well, we needed a good illustration for the pod. So I'm like, if you don't find it, you gotta create it. - I'm so impressed. - Yeah, man, I guess, thank you for being impressed with my meme creating abilities. - So for each of these, I want to list it. And then what I want to do is a few things. Number one, I'm basically gonna say, hey, this is the core of what it believes after we show the meme, some distinctive marks and beliefs. And then I actually want to highlight, hey, here are some truths that it actually kind of gets right. Here are some things that it's drawing on, but then I want to emphasize, hey, here's what it leaves out and here's why it's dangerous and wrong. And I also want to distinguish, have, hey, here are some things that are simply false teaching, but then here's some things within these that if you believe it's outright Harrison. When we say, "Harris, you basically are saying, "Hey, if you teach these or if you believe these "and don't repent from these, it's damn it." - It's damn-looking. - Yeah, it's damnable. - We have a different faith kind of thing. Is that, is that mixed in? - Yeah, let's go. - So kind of call for, are you ready? - Yeah. - All right, are you ready? All right, let's go. "Harris, I don't know where he's going." - Yeah. - So, all right, Chagy, I'll see. - Yeah. - "Harris, see number one." Let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go. - Okay, so here's the caveat, there are people who teach things, there are actual Bible verses that sound like that. - Yeah. - So you have to really clearly understand what Paul is saying and what he's not saying. - This is really important. - I'm so glad you gave it because I, before we jump in, this is something I should have even said earlier, is that we do have to be careful because sometimes, because they draw on true some scripture. Maybe we've heard it falsely done elsewhere, we're like, "Oh, you must be a prosperity teacher." "Oh, you must be one of those woke progressive prisoners." We have to be very careful and generous and not judge people based on a 10 second clip from a sermon or just anything like that. All right, prosperity theology, here's the idea. God wants his children to have fullness and blessing, materially and financially, in their health and in their relationships. And if you have enough faith, and even if you're willing to give money, you can have that. And if you don't have those things, it actually is a good sign that you don't have enough faith. - There you go. - And so, the idea is even like, if you can go to an extreme, Christ's death is sometimes said to guarantee, not merely our final resurrection and redemption, but it guarantees our present physical healing in my material prosperity. So if you don't have those things, you are not leaning into the blessings that Jesus Christ died to give you. Now, the thing is, is that it kind of leans into some truths that we just see in scripture. This is really important, man. - Because, for example, God really does provide. It says that if we ask him, he can provide for us. And Deuteronomy 8, it says that God can give wealth. Material provision is generally a gift from God. It's legitimate to pray for your needs and to pray for your health and to pray for your relationships. What this gets wrong is basically, we're equates God's blessing to material prosperity. And if you don't have that, yeah. - Almost only material prosperity. - And here's the other thing I'm saying. - Because material prosperity can be one way God. - Exactly. 'Cause here, it may be even cut into the chase. Here, just to show why this is wrong. Any theology that would exclude the Son of God from qualifying it is generally a pretty crappy theology. Here's what I mean. Did Jesus Christ have fullness in his health at all times? - No, he died. - Yeah. Did Jesus Christ have fullness in his riches and in his wealth? - No. - No, he said, "I have no place to lay my head." Did he have fullness in all of his relationships? No. His own family called him crazy at one point and one of his best friends betrayed him. And so, literally, if you're definition good. - He had fullness of faith at all times. - Exactly. And so that's basically, if you're looking at Jesus, you have to say, "Hey, he didn't have that, "so I guess he didn't have enough faith." And so the danger, so while there are some things that we don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water, we do want to say, "God does provide, "and we should ask him for things." He's a good dad who knows how to give good gifts to his kids. We also need to be careful that we turn the freedom to bless, the freedom of God to bless, to the promise of blessing that corresponds with our faith or with us giving to God. 'Cause what you often hear, and I need to maybe give you some phrases that maybe people have heard in this, if you will give thousand dollars, they'll often call it a seed gift of faith. If you'll give a thousand dollars to God, he'll give you 10,000 dollars in return. - Yeah, yeah, that's just lie. - It's a lie. - That's like, you're not prophesying, you're prophylying. - Exactly, yeah. - It's a lie. - Oh, man, Jesus Christ did not give us so much. We've got to be careful. And this is where I would say it elevates it to really the level of heresy. When you're basically saying that Jesus died to give you wealth and to give you physical wholeness, when actually he died to forgive you of your sins, to take away your judgment. And to reconcile with God, you've twisted the gospel. Anything that you guys would hit on this or anything that I'll lift out? - Yeah, there's a couple little things. What's really interesting is actually in one sense, Jesus did die for you to have prosperity. It did die for you to have your best life later. - Exactly. - Exactly. - Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, man, kind of what I'm driving at, here's a line. - Yeah. - Here's where I go, man, a line. Because you will hear people lean into, by the way, actual Bible promises that do actually say that man thinks like, you know, seek first to give you a vibe. And then all these things will be added to you. Press down, shaking together, overflowing. You know, second Corinthians eight and nine, talking about, man, as you, as you give, you'll be blessed in every way. There are actual Bible promises. Like, man, God does respond in blessing when you get, yes, here's your line, here's your line. If you start hearing things like, man, if you don't have material prosperity, it's because you didn't have enough faith. If you didn't get healed, it's because you didn't have enough faith. That's where we've crossed the line, into something that is kind of heterodox, yes? Yes, we would say, do not confuse the prosperity gospel with the promises of the gospel. - Bingo. - Exactly, that's great for us. - It can go, and again, I'm bringing in here, for somebody that may be, you know, somebody can be like, well, you guys are financially well off or whatever, you guys seem to be healthy. Even if you're not in a spot like that, is God a provider of financial means? Like, yes, he's owner of everything. Is he a healer? Yes, is he, Jesus talked about the abundant life? Yes, he did. But when wealth, health, prosperity, success, becomes the ultimate treasure, that's a problem. Jesus is your ultimate treasure. And so we are grateful for what comes from God's hands, but ultimately we do not neglect to see God's face. - There you go. - That's so good. That's so good. - All right, number two, what do we got? - All right, there's gonna be a fun one, 'cause there's some nuances too, and there's a range, range of beliefs. Word of faith theology. - Word of faith theology. - Where's our name? - Here we go. - We've got our name over here. That's me, and by that I mean the guy in the over there, not my will, but yours be done is the girlfriend, and then the other girl is name it, claim it, declare it. - Let me say, you gotta be on YouTube to see these guys. - That's hilarious. - If you're just listening, you probably should go pause and like, go find the video, 'cause this is great. - By the way, I just wanna say this, be a one woman man with your eyes. - That's exactly right, girl. - There you go. - All right, what you got. - So the basic idea of word of faith is that a believer can bring about their desired reality into being through manifestation, through faith and faith-filled words, specifically. This really caught on with the guy named Kenneth Hagen in the 1960s, and he emphasized the idea of speaking words of faith as a way to manifest health and wealth and other blessings. You can see some of this is overlapping with prosperity theology. They are a little bit different, but they're still correlation. But the idea here is that a huge emphasis is putting on the idea of between the logos, the written word, and remo, which is a spoken word. So you often hear, if you hear people spoken, the idea of the remo word. It's not a definite sign, but it could be a tell-to-sign that you're listening to a word of faith preacher. - Yeah, and I'll give a heavy caveat there. 'Cause I know it comes of very faithful charismatic Bible teachers that'll talk about remo versus Kairaas, and they're not this-- - And they're not, and that's what you gotta be careful. You gotta be careful. And so oftentimes this would be something that people call and this is what leaning into the meme, a name it and claim it theology. So for example, someone will say, "Well, man, don't say I have cancer "because in your acceptance round "you gotta speak healing over your life." And you gotta claim it. And listen, again, part of this is leaning into stuff that is in scripture. Faith matters enormously in scripture. And the idea of faith expressed through expectation. It's hard to say that I'm having faith in God. If I'm not expecting anything from God, expectation is a form of faith. I mean, you see in scripture the idea of in the book of Mark, it says Jesus could not, not decided not, but he could not do many miracles because the people in particular town did not have faith. So man, man, faith matters enormously. And by the way, we should pray boldly. - That's right. - So, man, those are important things, but where this gets out of line is the simple idea that I can manifest a reality into existence by simply speaking it into existence. Faith is not a force by which I impose my will upon reality. - That's right. - Faith is trusting God who rules reality. - Dude, here's how I like to say this. So the anchor verse for some word of faith guys is the, I think it's, is it proverb 17? Life in 21, 15 21. Life and death is in the power of the tongue. Okay, so first of all, let's acknowledge something is true. That verse is true. But listen, this is really, really important, okay? So what we're not listening, here's the difference. We're not saying, man, your words have so much power that you can get God to agree with your words. Here's what we are saying. There is power in getting your words to agree with God. Exactly. That's where the power is. Yes. Exactly. In prayer, we can both say, I know you can, and I pray you will, and say, you will be done. There you go. And so when Jesus prayed in the garden, and they said, if you will, take company, but not my will, but yours. He was praying in biblical prayer. He didn't like faith. The apostle Paul prayed three times that God would remove the throne from his flesh. And he didn't. It's not because he lacked faith. He asked, and God said, no. So the idea, I'd say, the danger, the false teaching part is the idea of it's about me and what I want. When the right posture towards God is saying, man, I'm going to bring to my request. And I'm going to have faith that you respond. But it's not primarily what I want. It's about what you want. Now let me give to you, let me, let me do give a few places where this can go from harmful or false teaching into outright heresy. There are some lines of thinking in the word of faith movement, which again, that's a very broad term. And sometimes I'm glad you point out, sometimes people think that all care is mad. Are extreme word of faith people. That's false. It's simply false to not true. But it can't cross. There are some elements in word of faith teaching that basically believes that we are little gods. Kenneth Copeland's famous. I don't even know what that means. I've heard that before. That's a great. It sounds really great. It's a weird thing to say. It's a weird one. And even like the way Kenneth Copeland said, it's like, you don't have a God in you. You are a little God. When it gets that level, that at that point is probably at that point, I would say is level one heresy. And you've got to run for the hills. Man, we do have the living God inside of us by the Holy Spirit. But we are not little gods. Also, I would say you got to be watch out for us. Almost like basically it can make God sound like he has to do whatever you want him to do if you have enough faith. And basically you're making him your servant in him, your vending machine. And that's where this can really get out of line. Let me give one more. I think this is where I went. I didn't have something to say. So to your point, sorry, Paul. So Jesus in John 1034, sites in Old Testament verse from Psalm 82 verse 6, it says, you are gods. And again, when he does that, you want to explain it? No, you keep going. I think you're going to say what I'm going to say. When he does that, he's not implying that you and I share in some sort of divine nature. He is speaking to an authority sense. So again, I don't know if that's where these preachers get that. But again, it's one. It's confusing, too. Not helpful. Three, if it implies that there is some sort of divine sharing in the divine. It's just wrong and theoretical. And it's just thinking weird. It's just thinking weird. I do want to warn about a subgroup. Again, this is not all. It's not the game because that's part of some of these. It's helpful to say, some of these are respectable beliefs. Is there is a group called NAR or NAR or the New Apostolic Reformation? This is not an official denomination. You've never heard of it. Never heard of it. That's a joke. Go ahead. There's a lot of things going on. That's what I want to make with each other right now, but we're not going to. It's not an official denomination, but it's kind of a group. And basically, their idea is this is that man, their reformation is the idea of God never meant for the official office of a possible to go out. Big A capital A Apostle. Big A capital A. So the idea is that God is raising up apostles who have the same authority as Peter and Paul on the other apostles. Yeah, bro. If you're here, somebody said run for the hills. Run for the hills. Because not all, but many who refer to themselves as apostles basically say that their commands and their authority are on level with the Apostle Paul and Peter. And therefore, begin to kind of encroach upon the level of authority of Scripture. Yeah, bro. We got Bible verses for that. We are delivering to you the message of God, quote, "Once and for all delivered to the saints." That's right. And nobody receiving any revelation on par with the authority of Scripture anymore. Sorry. That's exactly right. Run for the hills. Yeah, these guys start basically saying, hey, what I say to you is on par with Scripture, or they'll say, well, hey, let me explain what Scripture says and their interpretation is authoritative. So, frankly, this wouldn't be a guy who's not, but this is what Joseph Smith did that sort of example. He would take Scripture, and basically he referred himself at one point as a new apostle basically, and said, hey, this is actually, hey, you guys got this wrong. This doesn't mean that this means there are three separate gods and stuff like that. You never go. You never go. You never go full Mormonism. That's right. That's right. All right. That's another meme. We ready to go ahead. We ready for the third one. Number three. All right. This would be a fun one. I don't remember where you're going to be. You're going to be based on progressive Christianity. Oh, okay. Progressive Christianity. This is our guy. I don't always follow the Bible, but when I do, it's the part I already agree with. I don't know where he's right there. This is where he's right there. Okay. For this one, if you have it, this one covers a wide range of beliefs. There isn't necessarily unanimity between all the people who could be lumped in as progressive Christians or well Christians, but let me summarize it with a few core beliefs that they would have in common. Number one. The Bible is no longer the final authority. Scripture is treated as a fallible record of ancient people's experiences and beliefs about God, but not necessarily as God's words themselves to us and what God Himself is saying to us. The Bible can be respected, quoted, or preached from, but here's the key. If Scripture conflicts with modern beliefs about God or about any kind of ethics or whatsoever sexuality, we don't go with what the Bible says. We go with what we say. We had to only once and I won't use the name. Maybe I should. We kicked, it's the only guy we've ever had. We had to remove a guy from Strategic Launch, our Church Planet work, who became an actually biblically defined heretic and this was the heresy and it was that and it was really interesting. I got into a rather heated conversation one time and here's the question I asked. I said, "What is the difference between your ethics and the ethics of any secular humanist?" And he could not give me a single difference. So do the big thing. You're going to talk more about this for a second. The big thing about progressive Christianity is they will hollow out your religion and wear it like a skin suit. Exactly. This was my very next point is that they'll often use the same Christian words and the same Bible words that we use but their meanings drastically changed. I know we're going to respond to a video in the latter half of this and we'll definitely get into this now. So they'll use words like the gospel or salvation or sin or resurrection but they'll radically re-defin those. So the resurrection, that doesn't actually mean that Jesus literally roasts from the grave. It's just the resurrection of our faith. Sin becomes not so much about what I do but what's done to me or it's just the oppression of the poor. It's just what I do to others. And it's not for first and foremost what I do against God. It's what I do against other people. Jesus is primarily example rather than a savior from sin. Radical redefinition of sexual ethics and here's a big one is that in progressive Christianity Jesus is no longer necessarily the only way to God. Never, ever, ever. He's a good example. Hey, if Jesus makes sure I've better but you know what, hey, if someone sincerely believes in a law, if someone's sincerely a Buddhist, that's great. There's many paths and many ways that you can get to God. John Mark Comer one time who was a pastor up in Portland for a long time. He wisely, you know, he wisely one time because here's what happened. Some people, they grow up in a church like ours, by believing church, you know, the whole word for the whole thing. And then they go to, they go to college, they're by the way parents, please stop paying to send your kids to organizations whose entire goal is to reverse and undecyple your kids. Let's not do that. So then they do that. And then so then they become, so what they do is they go from Bible, believe in Christian to progressive, and so he was up in Portland, this is like what he was surrounded by. And here's what he said. He said in my experience, progressive Christianity is just to stop over on the way to post Christianity. Oh, 100%. It's just, it basically, hey man, you're just de-converting. You're just crock pot de-converting instead of light switch de-converting. Yep. So here's what I'll summarize this and I want you to move the fourth one so we can keep moving on. Here's what you're going to notice. It redefines, so it redefines sin, salvation, and redemption, and atonement. Sin, salvation, redemption, and atonement. So in progressive Christianity, the problem is not sin. The problem is social injustice, inequity in the system. The solution is not repentance and atonement. The solution is social justice activism. They practice tolerance of sin, not repentance of sin. Jesus did not die for your sins as a penal substitutionary atonement or using theology word nerd words there. Jesus didn't die as a penal substitution for your sins. He was really just an example of another victim of social injustice in the evil Roman Empire. He died as an example of speaking truth to power, social justice activism, and discipleship isn't actual discipleship. It's more just like vote, vote, left, and protest things. Yeah. And like put bumper stickers on your car and yell at people and say do better. Yep. Not Christianity. Not Christianity. So the first three were primarily things that you could find in specific churches and nominations, probably more espoused from the pulpit or from the stage. The next two can be those for sure, but they're actually found across many churches and are probably more predominant in the seats and the pews than in the pulpit. And so the next were them. I'll get the first and first. Work space Christianity. Yes. Here's a meme. This is a man choosing one or the other having a hard time. He said one of the options says Jesus said it is finished and the other option says but maybe if I read my Bible 30 more minutes, God will love me more. The algae nerd humor. Oh. Nice. Did you create that one? The algae nerd. I didn't create that one. You know what I think? I felt. I felt you. I'm just trying to illustrate what I was going to say. I thought it was great. I felt you on that one. The entire book of Galatians is written, "Country this hair, so you don't have to go ahead." - Exactly, so here's the core thing. And again, this is, this necks not in, just naturally to the public, but just into the people's minds and hearts that are just sitting in almost any church and it's this. My standing before God depends, holy or partly, on what I do for God, rather than what he has done for me. - There you go. - That's the core of this. - That's the New Year over here. We, like people who think this thing, hey man, God's love for me and His acceptance of me depends, holy or partly, on what I do for Him, rather than what He did for me through Jesus Christ and the cross, that is the heart of this. Now this looks, I think like two versions. There's a religious version which is, yeah, I'm saved because I believe in Jesus, but now it's on me. I've got to get my stuff together. It's like instead of it just being grace period, I'm giving a grace period. Like, oh, God gives me grace, but then I gotta give my stuff together and live a good life for Him to keep Him loving me. - It sounds like this. I'm saved by, I get God's love by faith, but I gotta keep God's love by works. - Yes. - But then exactly. Then I would say there's actually a much more common version that's outside of the church that is this. I call it nice person justification. I am saved if I'm a generally good and nice person. If I'm a really good person, I don't kill anyone. I think when I die, the good way, the bad, that's not. Man, and here's what actually some of this gets right. Man, your life does matter. How you live does matter. Like, I mean, Ephesians 2 says that we are not saved by works, but it does say we are saved for works. So that's the key to things. When we don't want to make people think like, oh, I can confess Jesus walked the Iowanem 6 and now live like heaven until I go, I mean, live like hell until I go to heaven. We don't want to make people think that, but rather we gotta get the order right. I am not saved by what I do in by works, but I am saved for good works. You wanna move to the fifth one? - The whole point of the gospel, it is grace. I've heard somebody said that grace means God's riches at Christ's expense. - That's right. - And so it's not your expense. It's Christ's expense. That's why there's hope. - Here's the thing I like to do. I love doing this in sermons. I was about, hey, pick a number in your head. On a scale of 1 to 10, if you're a Christian, how much does God love you right now? And I get really, the answer is it's always a 10. Because the Bible says there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Listen, God does not love you to the degree that you are like Christ Jesus. He loves you to the degree that you are in Christ Jesus. So what I like to do is our Christian save by good works. Yes, just not ours. - And it matters for you guys, I want to make this brief, 'cause a lot of this can seem like theory, but I meet so many people who live with the perpetual fear that they haven't done enough for God. - That's right. - And they go to bed afraid sometimes. Like always I've done like, it's not about what you've done for him. - All right, number five. - All right, last one, I call this one cafeteria Christianity or billow to bear Christianity depending on what you like to call it. - Thank you. - Yeah. - You're welcome. - The guy being smart says, "Can't be convicted by scripture if you ignore the verses that convict you?" - I think that's hilarious. - You made that. - I did. - Bro, you're so good. - God, man, I love. - He's so good. - The best name is for the one in person today. - These are old school memes, by the way. So, Trinity wouldn't approve of these memes. She says. - I would, I would actually argue. - They're not busting it. - They're not, they're not, they're not, they're not stupidly toilet, bro. - What's the Jinzy slang, Trinity? - She says it's stupidly toilet. - I always get like, I don't wanna go home. - I would actually argue that this is probably the most widespread false teaching or false belief or heresy out there in most people. And the idea is this, the thing if you go, if I go to a cafeteria or if you go to, I don't know how this prominent where people live, they have a golden corral. The whole idea is this, man, I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get a trainman in a play and I'm gonna pick and choose what I like and then I'm gonna leave what I don't. And so the way a lot of people build their belief system or their ethics system, the way they live is hey, if the Bible says something that I agree with and that I like, man, I'm gonna take it. Oh, God is love, that's amazing. Oh, God judges and he's also a God of wrath. - No, thanks. - No, no, no, thanks, I'm gonna leave that. Man, like, hey, take care of the poor and the poor. Yeah, hey, man, control your body sexually and like, and live a certain life. No, I'm good, I'm gonna live however I want. And so basically, here's the issue with this. It makes Jesus my savior, but I still get to be Lord. - Oh, bro, that's great. - That's good, Paul. - It makes Jesus my savior, but I still get to be Lord 'cause I get to choose what parts of him he has, both in my mind and what I believe, animal life and what I do, and what parts he has. And I forget, you may remember the actual guy, but there's a famous story of this Christian emperor that when he was baptized, he allowed him to baptize all of them, but he kept his hand in his sword above the water. - I looked up for years ago, it's a true story of, it was some Christians during the crusades that there were soldiers that would be baptized, they would hold their sword out of the water because they felt, by the way, I actually think there's an argument for that they were waging just wars, so they actually probably might not need to do a done that. But they would hold their swords out of the water because they thought, I'm probably sinning by how I use my sword so that we baptize every part of them except the sword. - Exactly. And so the idea is that he can have every part of me but this. And that's the mindset of this. Is that, and we have to remember, Jesus doesn't merely offer salvation, he demands Lord show you, man. It's not another or it's both in Luke 6.46 says, why do you call me Lord Lord and not do what I tell you? - Yep. - And practically speaking as well, I'm connecting dots here, but selective Christianity or Catholic Christianity eventually leads to progressive Christianity and progressive Christianity, eventually leads to post Christianity where like you exit the faith. - Typically true. - So there you go. - Anything you guys think I left out or anything you think I missed? - No, let's talk about James Taylor. - Let's do it. - Because we're gonna give an example. - Yeah, this is very, basically, let's double click on one and now we'll get to see a living live version of it. - Okay, so this video went super viral recently, literally this week and it's, this is what you'll see is Reverend Babs Miller who is a minister at St. Andrews Presbyterian Church in Austin, Texas. Her official title is minister to the parish. This is James Taylor Rico, long time congregation and it's obviously a hidden camera and she's gonna share what she really believes on some topics that she's being asked to in this moment. - Yeah, and I wanna say a couple things about this. Some of you may have listened to some of these Chegy palsy run through some of the heresies and you're like, nobody actually does that. (laughs) - Wrong, do not pass, go, do not collect $200. Honestly, this stuff is like, it's all over the place. - Yes. - It's for us all over the place and you don't know it. Bless God because you're not around it, but it's all over the place. Now I wanna set this up real quick. So dude, here's, I'm gonna zoom out. It just, I'm gonna give you, this is an old conversation me and John Tyson have one time and I'm gonna bring this here. What you're seeing right now in American culture is you're seeing something. I don't think at a meta-narrative, people don't realize what's happening. So for the last, honestly, I'd probably say, since just after World War II secularism has kind of been the official kind of predominant religion governing the social order in the United States. Bro, this is Tyson, this is fire. (laughs) Tyson says secularism does a reverse exorcism. It goes throughout society and wherever it finds God, it cries out, come out in humanity's name. (laughs) Only John Tyson can throw fireballs like that. Okay, now that in some more progressive areas, that secularism might still be, honestly, most people think secularism is generally dying. Now dude, here's the war, bro. Here's the warning. 'Cause we got Bible verses for this. Nature hates a vacuum. Yes, and Jesus gives this example. You remember that time he's telling the little parable, hey man, if you drive out one demon, and if you don't backfill it, if you drive out an unclean spirit, and you don't backfill it with a Holy Spirit, hey, actually watch out, because seven other unclean spirits will backfill the one unclean spirit you just expelled, and the last state of the person will be worse in the first. Dude, I'm gonna give you a theory, and we can watch for the next 20 years and see if I'm right. I think as secularism is dying and being driven out, you're actually gonna start to see an American society competing spirits and spiritualities vying for cultural dominance in America. So instead of it being like, ah, we're committed to atheism and secularism. Honestly dude, I think you're gonna see, and understand what I'm saying and what I'm not saying. I think you're gonna see it's like Islam, Christianity, demonic progressive Christianity, various spirits and spiritualities start to, hey man, bunch of unclean spirits try to backfill the vacuum created by driving out the first unclean spirit of secularism, which leads me to why, and I know these are strong words, but these are by-boards. Why you're starting to see demonic false teachers moving from pulpits to politics. So there's actually two prominent ones. I haven't mentioned the other one on the pod yet. One's James Talleriko, we've done that a million times here. The other one is, I think it's in Kansas, Adam Hamilton, is running for office progressive Christian pastor. The dude's got a church, it's like, I think, it's like the largest Methodist church in the United States. Bro, they're literally financially sponsor pride festivals. They're like having a farming church, all the things. Like, it's evil, man. He's running on a pro-choice platform. It's evil. It's like overt evil. And these guys are like wolf and sheep clothing kind of deal. And I use that in the biblical sense of the term, just because you disagree with something a pastor says, that means a wolf and sheep's clothing. Somebody actually teaching heterodoxy. These are like openly affirming non-orthodox, non-orthodoxy guys running for office. They're moving from pulpits to politics, which leads me to what you're about to see. So this is James Talleriko's office. call her a pastrix. We'll just say that. So this is Reverend Babs Miller. Now, Trinity, I might have you stop start a couple times because I want to help people get a play by play of what progressive Christianity sounds like. So when Paul's talking about itching ears, oh, that's what it's talking about. So we'll do this real fast. Okay. So here we go. Do we really believe that like a virgin gave birth to a baby? Yeah. Okay. I just don't want to offend my own, my own common sense. Yeah. No, don't. Yeah. Absolutely don't. Part of what we encourage here, it's for people to think for themselves. Okay, pause. So so we have like an actual clear doctrine of the Bible version, both of Jesus. Hey, you know, don't check your, don't stop doing your thoughts and doing God's thoughts. Keep doing your thoughts and ignore God's thoughts. I just want to point this out. Huge hallmark of progressive Christianity is in the garden how does Satan tempt mankind? Hey, did God really say, oh, you will not surely die. In other words, Satan's gone, really, what I'm encouraging here is for you to think for yourself. Okay. Well, I'll just tell you, like me as a pastor, I'm not, I'm not encouraging you to think for yourself. I'm trying to get you to be transformed by the renewing of your mind by the word of God. Okay. That's okay. Now, keep, keep going. Yeah. And take what makes sense. It's kind of like what they say, a 12-step program. Take what you want and leave the rest. Okay, boss. So, Babs, still to bear. Babs, take what you want and leave the rest. The Apostle Paul, I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole council of God. Okay, keep going. So you and I know that that watch this would greatly offend your relatives who want to hang on to these archaic rules. Mary and the Virgin birth comes out of the pagan belief that the gods came down and impregnated people. Well, as my grandma would say, bless your heart. Bless your heart. And dude, I actually want to say something way more serious. So think, think about this. She's taking this Holy Spirit-inspired Virgin birth of Jesus and going, hey, you know what that idea came from? Demonic pagan religions. So dude, I just want to point this out. In Mark 3, Jesus says, and we could do a whole episode on what this means and what it doesn't mean. Jesus says, hey, do you know what the unforgivable sin is? He says, truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man and whatever blasphemies they utter. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness but is guilty of an eternal sin. For they were saying he has an unclean spirit. In other words, Jesus is warning and this is a whole podcast episode. He's saying, if you continue in for the rest of your life in a spirit where you look at things the Holy Spirit did and start telling people, unholy spirits are doing that, he says, you better watch out. Because if you die in that spot, you're going to hell. That's what Jesus said. She's literally looking at an act of the Holy Spirit and saying, that came from demonic pagan religions. Now keep going. I'm going to apologize in advance but not apologize. I'm going to use a very strong word in a second, but we have biblical merit for me saying what I'm about to say. Keep going, watch what she says here. We have no way of knowing if Jesus really exists. Pause. Then get the hell out of a pulpit. And here's why I say that. I know that sounds harsh. No. In Galatians 1, 8, the Apostle Paul says, even if we or an angel from heaven preach to you another gospel, let them be damned. So I literally mean you're seeing someone pull hell up onto earth and into a pulpit. Get out. Get out. Okay. Now keep going to watch. Any more than we have a of knowing that the original Buddha ever exists. And whether or not Jesus existed doesn't really matter to me. Pause. Okay. Whether or not Jesus really exists doesn't really matter to me. Okay. The Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15. And if Christ has not been raised, then your faith is futile and you are still in your sense. If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied. So I'm team Paul. Yeah. And also historically speaking, it's just not true. Like if you talk to the vast majority of historians today. Atheists historians. Even like the most ardent atheists today that are historians, they will acknowledge that the vast majority that the consensus is like, he definitely existed. Yes. This is actually a quote from an atheist historian born agnostic actually today. Bart Irman who rejects the resurrection and much of traditional Christian doctrine. He says this. Jesus certainly existed as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian agrees except maps. Except maps. All right. Keep going. Fact remains that that message that was delivered by someone named Jesus supposedly and it could have all been made up for all I know. And the God in the Old Testament is not loving God. Some vengeful killing people kind of God. Pause. Okay. Now every progressive Christian you almost meet ever says that. That's going to get thrown thrown at you at the water cooler at your office. So let me tell you how to respond to that really quick. Okay. The God of the Old Testament is a vengeful killing people kind of God. What they're doing is they're looking at the passages in the Old Testament that people call the quote slaughtering of the innocence passages. Look, God commands the slaughtering of the innocence. Okay. If you ever get that thrown at you, let me tell you how to think about that. I got great news for you. Great, great, great news for you. In all the passages that people call the slaughtering of the innocence passages, great news. All the innocent ones were spared. Bad news. There were no innocent ones. Why? Because I got a Bible verse that says the wages of sin is death and all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Okay. So good news, bad news. Now I got better news. So here's why I want to help babs better news. The only slaughtering of the innocence. There actually is a slaughtering of the innocence of the Bible. The only slaughtering of the innocence that happens in the entire Bible. It's not in the Old Testament. It's in the New Testament and God did not do it to man. Man did it to God when we crucified Jesus by nailing him to the cross, which leads me to the very best news. He did it so he would never have to kill you and that you would have life, life everlasting life. God made him who knew no sin to be sin for us that in him we might become the righteousness of God. So swing in a misbabs. Let's keep going. That's one more thing. You know who else disagrees with babs? Jesus does. He looks at the Old Testament and he affirms the Old Testament. Yes. Jesus said in John chapter 10 verse 35, a scripture cannot be broken. Also, it's a false caricature of God in the Old Testament. You see God's judgment in the Old Testament and what a lot of these people will admit is all the verses that talk about the Lord's compassion and his patience. Exodus 34 verse 6, the Lord, the Lord, I got merciful and gracious slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. Again, it's elective reading. Yeah. Well, I want to keep going on that passage because it says forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. And he goes to the 10th generation. Yeah. Yeah. Well, anyway, you have this thing in the Old Testament. It's like, hey man, for a thousand generations, I want to pour out my love and faithfulness on you. And then he does a little thing of yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished, he punishes the children in their children. He's talking about the natural consequences of sin. Yeah. And kind of this thing, you have his man, my love and faithfulness goes for a thousand generations and I'll only let the consequences and judgment as sin go for two or three. Yes. Brothers to the best. It's very awesome. That's awesome. All right. Keep going. Now, oh, what you're getting ready to see right here is what we said earlier, progressive Christianity, it redefines sin into, you know, social inequity and social systemic injustice kind of thing. And then redefines the solution to, oh, we just need to do social justice activism. You're about to hear like a perfect case in point of that. Watch what she says right here. Yeah. This is, this is a lot of mythology. Jesus was political. Yeah. Jesus was put on that cross, not to save us. Yeah. Jesus was put on that cross because Roma hated him. And they thought he was a threat to their domination of that area. Yeah. And so they killed him. Yeah. So he doesn't save our sins. He didn't die to save our sins. I'll just keep saying the same thing. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, or a demonic false teacher named Babs, preach us to you another gospel, let her be accursed. You just literally, he didn't die to save our sins. Your problem's not that you're a sinner. Your problems that, you know, the government is bad. Please. She said, he didn't die to, or Jesus didn't die to save our sins. You can trust her word or you can just read your Bible. First Corinthians 153 for I delivered to you as a first importance. What I also received that Christ died for our sins. And of course, we're the scripture. John 129, the next day, he saw Jesus coming towards him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world." First Peter 24, he himself bore our sins in his body on the tree that we might die to sin and live to righteousness by his will. once you have been healed. - Oh, and there's the announcement of the angel to the family of saying, "You shall call him Jesus because he will save his people from their sin." - It's literally his name. His name is Jesus, it comes from Yeshua, which comes from the Hebrew verb "Yasha," which means to rescue or save. It's literally his name. All right, I have no words. Let's keep going, okay? - I'd more as a kind of a social justice warrior in some sense. - Yeah, okay. I know it's, I keep pausing. He was really here as a social, so again, I just want to point this out earlier as she was like, "Jesus was political." He came as a social justice warrior. So if you're a Christian who's any politically aware at all, you know that what James Telleriko, Adam Hamilton, what these guys do is they look at guys like us who take actual biblical convictions and we're like, "We should apply those in every sphere, including the societal and political realm." And they're like, "Hey, watch out." These guys are scary Christian nationalists. They're trying to take their Christian beliefs and bring them into the political realm. That's wrong. They're scary Christian nationalists. I just want to point this out to you. They're running a bait and switch on you and you keep following for the same play every time. They're doing the same thing. They're just using, they're just interpreting their Bible in the exact wrong way and then taking their unbiblical, quote unquote, biblical beliefs and applying their progressive Christian heresy into the political realm. That's called progressive Christian nationalism. That's what that's called. So here's what you, it's the whole podcast. But what you'll notice is when people like this, when the Bible is used to advance progressive causes, man, you know what that is? That's speaking truth to power. You know what that is? That's being a faithful presence. But then when people use the Bible to advance what feels to them like a quote unquote conservative cause, well, that's scary Christian nationalism. You're trying to impose your beliefs on other people. So were you! So you're just that. All right, keep going. We'll finish this up. So that makes a whole lot more sense to me than to say that some God with kill his son for us. Does that make sense? How does that make up for all the things I can do? I would love to answer that question. So first of all, I have righteous anger at the things that she said. Yes. Jesus Christ loves that woman. Yes, he does. And he died for that woman. And so, man, if I ever got a chance to have a coffee with babs, I would restrain my righteous anger in the moment. And what I would want to tell her is, man, how does that make up for all the things that I do? Well, I'm so glad you asked. Because what the Bible says is God made him who knew no sin to be sin for us so that in him he might become, we might become the righteousness of God. It makes up for all the things that I do because the blood of Jesus can cleanse us from any sin, and as far as the East is from the West, so has God cast our transgressions from us. So much so that the Bible says he forgives our transgressions, and he quote "remembers our sins no more." And so we began this podcast talking about a guy who began his life for the first 30 years, hating and blaspheming Jesus, just like we watched a woman hate and blaspheme the actual Jesus. And in the exact same way, the God loved, chased down, redeemed, forgave, and used the Apostle Paul to preach the gospel. Jesus Christ could love, chase down, redeem, and use babs someday to preach the actual gospel why, because Jesus Christ is a friend of sinners and he actually can forgive all of your sins and make you a new woman in Christ. Okay. So I want to finish with a love of Jesus Christ for that one. That's good. Josh and I know it. Would you pray for us? No, I'm going to ask you to do it, Carlos. Oh, okay. I'll talk to you next. No, man. Good. That's great. Heavenly Father, we thank you because this is the best news there is ever that you, while we were still sinners, you gave up your life because you loved us enough, not because we were better or because we were impressive or any brought anything to the table, but ultimately because who you are that you are a good father. Lord, I pray for the people listening to this. I pray that their faith may be strengthened, emboldened, encouraged, that we may receive the words of the Apostle Paul to Timothy, that we may do the work, focus on what you've called this to do, and that we may fulfill our ministry. And that we may run the race that you've said before us, Father, I pray. I pray for people listening right now that my disagree, I pray Holy Spirit that you may do a work that only you can do. We can try to change somebody's mind, but only you can change their hearts. So Lord, would you do it again? We are celebrating coming off of this weekend to see all the life-changing people publicly proclaiming their faith in you through baptism. Lord, I pray that you may do it one more time, Father. Thank you because you don't need us, but you still invite us to be a part of the redeeming work that we find hope in the gospel that is power for salvation, not just a matter of words. So thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for the live free podcast. We glorify you for everything you're doing through this podcast, Lord, we want to humble ourselves before you. We want to give you all the glory. And again, we just want to pray that the name of Jesus be made much of, that we may decrease that you may increase Jesus. So thank you, may your kingdom come and may your will be done. And we pray all of this in your mighty name, amen, amen, amen, live free, but free.