James McAvoy

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard. I'm joined by Monica Padman. Hi, James McAvoy. I'm being official because his name's James, you know? James McAvoy is our guest today. And James feels official instead of Jim. I love the name James. It's beautiful. I used to say that if I had a daughter, I would name her James. Oh, that would be a lovely name for, yeah, James Padman. Do you think it sounds bad? Well, I love James on its own, but then maybe she's a one-name person. I just don't know how well it pairs with Padman. James Padman. I mean. You call her JP? I call her James Lily Padman and then JLP. Oh, JPL is what I'm. Jet Laboratory Propulsion. Okay, anyways, James McAvoy is an award-winning actor and a director. His credits include Split, Speak No Evil, Atonement, 4Xmen, of course, Last King of Scotland for my money. God, did I love him in that. And he has made his directorial debut. It's in theaters now. It's called California Schemen, and it's based on the most impossibly true story of two Scottish kids pretending they're American to break into rap in 2003. This is a lovely interview. Please enjoy James McAvoy. We get support from Quince. I have to say, I am so ready for fall. I want sweaters. I've been craving a true crisp morning where I actually need a jacket, I can't wait. I'm fully there. The second it dips below 70, I'm like, this is my season. Give me the layers. Give me the boots. Give me a reason to wear something other than a t-shirt. And honestly, that's why I love Quince because fall is when your wardrobe actually has to show up. And everything at Quince is 50 to 80% less than similar brands. We're talking 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters starting at $60. $60. $60 for cashmere that you'd expect from a luxury brand without the luxury price tag. It's amazing. It's amazing. It's amazing. It gets me every time. 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And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. This episode is presented by YouTube Premium. YouTube was already great, but Premium supercharges it. If you like YouTube, you'll love Premium. Try YouTube Premium for two months free at youtube.com slash premium. Trial eligibility varies, terms apply, cancel anytime. Now let's get into today's episode. He's an Armchair Expert. Now really quick, I'm bummed I've healed so much. Much different today, right? What? Oh, he had a, okay. Yeah, so yesterday we had a guest and it was insane they never asked what was wrong with my face because have you ever been to the dermatologist and they have the machine they can zap things off you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I bought one. Oh, wow. And I've been going nuts getting rid of every dangerous mind. We're not sure if it's a giggle. This is dangerous, dude. This sounds bad. So yesterday it looked like I had been hit with buckshot in the head. Is it like freckles or moles? Skin tags, hyperplasia, anything raised I don't like. Anything, you know, when you're just feeling your skin, you're like, what the fuck is this? And especially, I'm four years older than you, but at 51, it's like sprouting up everywhere. I'm like, what is happening to me? Yeah, no, I've got weird stuff all over it at 47. Yeah, you just get barnacles all the time. Yeah, well, we are a ship flowing through the ocean of life. We are. You've got to scrape your hull sometimes. I've got something in my eye which I'm like, oh, am I going to need to get that worked out? So maybe I'll use your machine before I go. Oh, no. I walk in blind. I've recated 2000. You would be the first guest that I offered some kind of surgical services to. It's getting out of control. It's like he walks in and then it's just scabs. Oh, man. Scabs. But they heal quickly. So yesterday I was a mess and today already I'm kind of back to normal. I had that thing when I was a kid. Have we started recording yet? Hell yeah. It was a teenager. And you know that way when you don't really think about your appearance too much. I wasn't really up on my appearance. And then I think my aunt said to me like, oh, you've got tons of blackheads on your nose. And I was like, what? And I was like, what's that? And they were like raised. They really needed to have something done about them. So I thought, oh, I guess I better do something about that. So I went to town on them and the next day I looked like I'd been fucking attacked by a Rottweiler or something like that. Then that was the talk of the town and the school was kind of like, James McAvoy, he bust his plukes. He bust his zits. You're like, why is this news? Was it scabbed or you just look like Rudolph the Red? It was pretty scabby. It was scabby. Okay, I don't know whether to tell you this story now or when we get to it. I don't know. I've told a story on here about you about 35 times, which is why I'm so excited to finally meet you. Oh my God, is it going to be bad? I'm going to start with it. Good story. I guess it would have been 2006 or 7. I get a meeting with this guy, Timur. Oh, yeah. This Russian director who's going to direct this movie, Wanted. Yeah. And we have this incredible meeting. I'm at that point thinking, you know, there's no way I'm getting this movie. It's going to be a huge action movie, but I'd like to meet this guy. That meeting goes really, really well. But there's another actor that's already attached to it. So I'm like, that's a bummer, whatever. Then randomly, we get called. That actor fell out for scheduling is what I was told. He wants to meet again. Meet again. Then the studio calls. They want my quote. We're beginning that whole process. I'm like, oh, they called and asked for my quote. This is Lee Wesley? Yes, yes. Oh my God. And I'm like, I can't believe this is happening, right? And then at the 11th hour, they're like, oh no, the actor is now available again. I go, who is this actor? And they go, James McAvoy. And I go, who the fuck is James McAvoy? You're saying that like, whatever. I'm so annoyed. Weeks later, I go to Arclight here and I see The Last King of Scotland. Oh yeah. Was that right about that time? Oh wow. Yes, you were probably getting that role right as that movie was about to come out. And so I'm watching this movie and I'm having the experience that I've only had a couple times. I'm having the experience I had watching Ewan McGregor in Trainspotting. What film? Where I go, who is this fucking actor I'm watching? He's incredible in it. He's so, no, you. No, he was watching Last King of Scotland. I'm watching Last King of Scotland and I'm like, oh my God, this guy's a revelation. Who is this guy? And the whole time I'm watching, I'm like, I gotta wait to the credits. I'm gonna like, write his name down and watch everything that he's ever been in. And then it gets to the credits and I go, oh my God, that's James McAvoy? I wouldn't have hired 10 of me to play this guy. It was the most satisfying experience with finding out you didn't get something because of someone else. Because I was so blown away by that performance in Last King of Scotland. And then I've just been a huge fan ever since. Thanks so much, man. It's really kind of you to say so. I don't know if you see that. That's mental. That is mental. Should I tell you the truth about what was actually going on? Yes, because I read other shit today that I was like, oh, that's not even what happened, I don't think. I think Timur wanted me to play the role and he thought it was me. And then the studio were like, this kid's not big enough. It was like a $75 million movie. Yeah, with Angelina Jolie. With Angelina Jolie. We need somebody more established and probably more experienced as well. And who's American for a start. Yeah, yeah. And so I think I camera tested about three times for the role. I was never not available. Really? They were just going back and forth on whether they would let Timur have this guy that you're liked. And Timur was clearly into you as well because I don't think he'd have met you more than once if he wasn't. He's a lovely dude. Oh, I loved, he told this crazy story. Maybe you'd remember. It was something about being at university and his books getting stolen. Do you remember this crazy tale? No. I've got the worst memory for things that have been told to me or happened in my life. Oh, really? It's really boring on podcasts. Is it frustrating or are you at peace with it? I'm kind of at peace with it. And it also means you kind of live in the moment a little bit. Harder to carry grudges or are you able to hang on to those? I don't think I carry too many grudges. Yeah. My wife has your gift in a sense that she's not burdened by the past because she just simply doesn't remember it. It's a nice thing. I mean, it is weird sometimes where I'm like monumental things in my life and people are talking to me about them from their point of view. And it's not just like, oh, people remember things differently. I'm like, I don't remember half of this. I remember one day my sister said to me, not that this is a monumental thing, but my sister said to me, like, you've worked with so many of the best leading ladies in Hollywood and all that kind of stuff. Who would you love to work with? And I was like, you know, I think Margot Robbie is like an incredible performer. She's proper movie star quality, but also she's a proper actor as well. She's the two things and she's brave and bold and makes strong choices and she's entertaining even when it's sad and she just can do many things at once. So I said to her, she was like, we've met her. And apparently we were at the Empire Awards in London one night years ago and we won some award. I can't remember what it was for, a film called Filth that I did a long time ago maybe. And me and Joy were there together, my sister, and we went downstairs to the party and apparently we were like tearing up the dance floor and stealing each other's shoes and chucking them behind the DJ booth and all that. Because apparently Margot Robbie was like, oh, these two are having fun. And we partied with her. She joined you. Wow. Like all night. Okay. That could be a drinking incident, though. I was drinking back then, yes. Yeah, so the memory might have been a little hazy because of that. I think I've partied with some people I certainly don't remember. Yeah, I'm sure. I think you'd remember if you partied with Margot Robbie, though. Right. She's very iconic. Yeah. Yeah, that's a big deal. Have you thought about getting it looked at? Have you seen a neurologist? I spent so much in my early, up till about 29, 30, worrying about my mental health. Not worrying about it, but keeping a real good eye on it. I'm sort of, this is going quite serious, in the last sort of like 15 years or so, I'm like, I'm fine. I don't need to worry about it. I want to get into that. I had a little bit of a preoccupation in my 20s. I felt like I was vulnerable to lose my mind. I was worried about that loads. What do you suppose that is? Without going into finer points and details, because it's other people's stories as well, lots of substance abuse and mental illness in my early years, and I just worried that it was like in me. Also, mom was a psychiatric nurse. Yeah, yeah. So were you hearing tales? This is in Glasgow. Let's just set the stage. April in 1979, a little baby comes along. He's so cute. His name's James. What's his middle name? Don't have one. Don't need one. Yeah, don't have one. He's a junior. He gets three things. Do I need to be named junior, or am I just like by default? I'm a junior. I think if your dad has the exact same name as you. Everybody in my family was named James. I think it was about 10 Jameses. Yeah, no, I was definitely exposed to a lot of that, but also just in the extended family and my community as well, there was a lot of altered state going on. Would mom come home and share stories? This is what I first thought I had when I saw what your mom did. Was she coming home with some wild stories? A little bit, yeah. Yeah, and what was the vibe in Glasgow in the 80s? Shit was popping off, yeah, mentally speaking. Yeah. Back then, it was drug, kind of. Capital, I mean, I don't want to talk down about my hometown. I love my hometown, but we've got a massive drug problem, and it was massive back then, and it's become massive again. I think we're the drug death capital of Europe at the moment. Oh, really? So there was just a lot of that kicking about, and I think mental illness and drugs and alcohol, just alcohol as a drug, they kind of go hand in hand. They're not always hand in hand. Not everybody who drinks has to get mentally treated, but they can, I think, often go hand in hand, and one kind of empowers the other a little bit. I don't know what the underlying issues are. I don't know what the underlying causes of that are, but it's a real thing. Yeah. So I'm from Detroit, so that's a very similar vibe, especially in the 80s. Is Detroit back in its feet now? It is, shockingly, yes. Mind-blowingly, yeah, because I left there in 93, and it was as post-apocalyptic as you can imagine a city, and now, yeah, there's farmer's markets and stuff. It's wild. It's impressive. You can get kombucha. You can get a nice, probably a freshly brewed kombucha. Fantastic. The crack epidemic was just sweeping through the entire city. My uncle in recovery, my dad in recovery, you know, the whole scene. Similarly, a child of divorce. So yeah, maybe that's the seeds, is I saw adults around me that were hanging by a thread, and so maybe it seemed plausible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there was a self-awareness that came to me very young. Actually, is it self-awareness? I think it was an awareness of the extreme things that people around me were going through from a very young age that sort of took me out of the place I think most children are in. For quite a long time, which is I'm the center of the universe, and the world is really just happening to me. Everybody else, you're just all players in the movie that I'm the lead in, aren't you? And then, you know, the process of growing up is a process of sort of looking less inward and looking outward, responsibility to others. But I think that happened to me quite young, and while I didn't have responsibilities to fill to other people, I think that I was sensitized early to what others are going through, which was quite a massive reason. Why I ended up being an actor or a performer and interpreting what it is that other people are going through in their lives, you know, and making that into stories. As an adult, one of the things that I do is I try and fix issues. I try and fix problems, which you might think is a wonderful thing, but I'm kind of coming to the realization that sometimes you've got to let people go through what they're going through. You can't fix everything, and by fixing it, you're creating more problems. But part of that fixing as well is you become quite malleable, and you can slightly lose yourself within that. Yes. Now, I think we share this. So I spent all my summers and all my free time at my grandparents' because single mother working around the clock. And when I went there, I think I got the thing that my children have, right, which is I was the center of the universe when I was at my grandparents' house. They made me whatever I wanted to eat. I got to have snacks. They were available. They had time for me, and I loved it. It was an Eden. Was your experience living with grandma and grandpa the same? Yeah, no, my granny and granddad were incredible and really just, like, incredible. I was about to say smashing people. I never used the term smashing. They were smashing. Yeah, and what does it mean? Fantastic people. They were smashing. They were amazing. My granny still is amazing. She's still alive, your grandma? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. That's incredible. Along with the drug death capital of Europe, we were also the teenage pregnancy capital, so she was quite young. Oh. They were incredible. But they were also realistic, pragmatic. They. Had five of their own kids, all my aunties and uncles and my mum, obviously. And it's interesting, their point of view on my experience and Joy's experience with my granny and granddad, because they're always like, they were never like that for us, you know what I mean? They're always like, you got a totally different side, which I think happens a lot. Meaning you got a better version of them than their kids did? We got them a bit older, a bit more settled, a bit more established financially, maybe. A bit more chilled. Also, not having to balance five kids and two jobs, you know? Yes. So it was an easier time in their life. Same. I think my father even resented me a bit, that his dad was so gentle and kind to me. Yeah. I think that can happen. We're developing a script at the moment, and that is the key thing about the movie, apart from all the other bits, is the relationship between grandfather, father and son, and the gap in the middle, the father and the gap between the grandfather and the son, but those two are kind of like circumnavigating the father and having this incredible bond, you know? They were amazing, but I was talking about the other day, can't remember who it was to, but it was a dad at the school or something like that, and talking about how kids played differently before, and I was like, no, that's true, but if you're going to look at it through the lens of the past, the difference in the past was as well, like, my granny and grandad loved me, and I felt so loved and protected and safe and cherished. He never played with me. I was never played with. Same. But I think the space that that afforded me allowed me to understand how I could play on my own or with friends. I'm bored wasn't a thing that would have been accepted. That's on you, mate. Do you know what I mean? So you don't get bored. You invent things. You think as well. I remember I used to go to bed excited to think. You know what I mean? We don't do that anymore because we go to bed and we do that before we go to bed. And I guess a lot of teenagers are doing that now, too. The pure excitement of going like, right, what am I going to think about and fantasize about and sort of like build in my brain at a young age. But anyway, the playing with thing, I love that I play with my kids and I love that I'm attentive and that I'm present and all these things. But I do wonder sometimes if this wonderful time that feels so fragile and on the precipice at the moment, but we still have a hold of it at the moment where people with a certain amount of money in the bank have time to play with our kids and we should take advantage of it. Of course we should. But are we also taking something away from the kid by not allowing them space to just wonder? I think if you feel like it is your job to entertain them constantly, yeah, I think you're going to have a problem. If you want to kick off some fake world and you join them, no, then just they're the author of this experience. Totally. It is different, though, because I would never have asked my parents to play with me. That wasn't even an option. No, right, right. Wasn't on the table. To be like, hey, will you play house with like, no, either you're doing it in your own head or you have a friend over. But like now I do think parents are behaving more as friends. Yeah. I mean, there's so many parents. I see. And I'm not criticizing parents because it's too easy a pastime to fall into, I think, is to criticize other parents. But I do see so many parents so concerned with being liked by their children. And I don't know if that necessarily should be your super objective. Yeah. My parents could care less. Your job is to help them to grow into people who are potentially capable of happiness and functionality. That doesn't necessarily mean they need to like you every minute. Often they shouldn't like you if they're relying on the gratification of your pleasure, they're going to be needy people in relationships going forward. I don't know. I'm getting very specific. We like that. It's pseudo-psychology. Who knows? Okay. I just had to learn this term today because it sounded fancy. What would you say a council estate is? If you found out someone grew up on a council estate in Scotland, what do you think that means? Ooh, a council estate. Okay. So I'm going to say like a government property. Someone who worked as an ambassador or something has their own property. Yeah. And are we picturing like some acreage maybe and some fencing? Or is it a lawyer's house? It's what they call the projects. Whoa. So I keep reading you are from the council estates and then you were helping an actor kind of prepare for the first thing you were in. Oh yeah. It was Andy Serkis. And he wanted to know about your accent. And he said, are you from a proper council estate? When I read that, I was like, wait, he grew up kind of fucking fancy. Fancy. It does sound fancy. I was like, okay. Okay. That's a different thing. So the first name that we would have for it is a council scheme, which is why the film that I directed is called California Scheming. Which I never really explained in the movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, so that was a kind of colloquial term for it is a scheme. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you live in a scheme, you're a scheme-y, that kind of thing. And was there shame about being lower income there? Not from us. Some people might have, but there was also a bit of like local pride. And it's strange, isn't it? Like Drum Chapel, that's the scheme that I come from. I had a great time growing up there and my days were full of adventure and potential and peril and chases and drama and tons of kids running wild. And it felt exciting. My opportunities were limited and my horizons were very close, but it still felt like I was in the Wild West sometimes. And yet I look back at like there's something that keeps coming up on Instagram at the moment, which is this documentary made about Drum Chapel at the time in the 80s and is what it was like. And I'm just kind of shocked to look at it and see how bad it was then because it felt so vibrant. And so when I see movies about people who come from. I mean, the lower end of the socioeconomic ladder. And a lot of these films are brilliant, by the way, and it's fine to make films about people like this, but they're often sort of wallowing in the deprivation or the suffering. It becomes almost titillating in the pornography of poverty. And some of that is really valid, totally brilliant. You need it. But you don't really get too many rom-coms set in a project. You don't get too many buddy movies about two kids from the project. Actually, you're used to it a little bit. That's kind of what. That's kind of what I wanted to do with this. Even though it's a true story and there's some real big emotional consequences in the movie, the reason that it appealed to me so much is because it was about people who came from a place like I did, but it was entertaining and it was aspirational and it was like propellant. Like you went to a nice neighborhood and people were protecting their property. In ours, we lived in a row of 20 homes and up the back, there was all these flats and apartments and just hundreds of gardens in the middle with middens, what we call middens, like where you put the trash out and all that kind of stuff. And basically. All but, I'd say 10% of the neighbors were just like, you can go into our gardens, do what you want. So we had like this wild area that when you're like eight or nine, feels so vast that you can adventure through. And the kids that were in that close, like an apartment building, we call it close. The kids that were in that close, like they were our enemies. But the kids in that close, they would help us sometimes. It was proper. You get locked in stone throwing battles for four hours at a time, trapped in a den that you couldn't leave. There was this amazing bit between. There's two schemes in Drum Chapel. Scheme one and scheme two, and I'm from scheme one. In between scheme one and two is this vast sort of valley with a burn, a stream that goes right through the middle of it. We call it a burn. And it was a huge hill that went down like that to the burn. And then it would go back up to the other side in scheme two. And I remember I was in scheme two, which even within my neighborhood, you're like, that's not my territory. I can't be in scheme two. Yeah, yeah. And we get chased out of scheme two. And I just remember, I felt like I was in the Dukes of Hazzard because I had to make it to the county line. It's like, if I could make it to the burn, if I could make it to the burn. And I leapt over the burn, I'd be safe. Yeah, how exciting. Which, of course, the bigger boys who were chasing me just jumped over the burn and beat the shit out of me. Anyway, it's like, oh, you don't respect borders. Okay, cool. That was another one of my curiosities about your childhood. What was your kind of trajectory with masculinity? Was that complicated without dad present? I had my granddad and I had my uncle Johnny. My uncle Johnny and my aunt Patricia were like another set of grandparents I had as well. They were incredible too. So they were two particularly, I would say. Kind, funny, gentle, not self-serious, never presenting masculinely, but. Were masculine figures. And they gave you the attaboys. Yeah, no, totally. There was a kind of tempered thing with my granny and granddad. They sort of tempered the sort of attaboy, you can do anything you want to do vibe with you've got the right to try and do whatever you want to do, but it doesn't mean you can do it. You'll need to make it happen. And sometimes you won't. You'll just need to pivot. Because I think that sometimes the message to our children is so much. Maybe it isn't so much these days. I think it is though, you know, you can do anything and the pressure that comes with that is that it's implied that they should be capable of achieving anything. Yeah. I thought that was a uniquely American thing. I know that's huge here. No, I think it's definitely back home as well. It is. And look, I'm not dissing it. It's better than being down on your kid and telling them they're never going to amount to anything. Absolutely. But there's a pressure that comes with that as well. It's just in how we phrase it really, and maybe there's a way to phrase it that propels, but doesn't add weight. I don't know if it was because of the way my grandparents sort of framed it or it's who I was as well, but I felt like I'd be all right. You did. And I didn't necessarily expect to make it as an actor. I was very aware that the statistic of 95% of actors are out of work at any one time. Really, you don't see that many movies coming out of Scotland. How many Scottish movie stars are there? There was nobody there for me to like see it to be it. I was like, well, look, I'll do this. I did a movie when I was 16 out of the blue out of nowhere. That's worth telling. Yeah. So there's this famous Scottish actor. Famous Scottish actor, director, producer, philanthropist, all around good guy. David Heyman, not to be confused with the producer of the Harry Potter movies. He came to my school. He famously played Lady Macbeth in the seventies and an all male production at the citizens theater. He lived next door to my English teacher. We were studying Macbeth in class just for English, not for performance. And he came in to talk to us. He took a bit of flack from the kids in the class, giving them shit for being a puffy actor or whatever they were calling him. But I was like, I've seen this guy. I've seen this guy in the movies. He's been in a movie with Arnold. He was in Sid Nancy for Christ's sake. He was legit. And I was like, oh wow. So I went up to him at the end and I said, look, when you're making a movie again, can I come and make tea or make coffee for you for like a week? Be a runner. You all had to do like work placement, whatever you could do in the corner shop or the bank or go plaster walls with your uncle. And he said, yeah, sure. So six months later, he was making this movie called the near room. He called the school. He said, is that we guys still there? Send them in. I went in and he gave me the script. He said, right. This part, this part, this part, these scenes here. Read that. Try and learn that. And then come back. And I was like, what am I acting? Wow. So I read it with them and he went, can you do it again? I think you need to get quite upset. Can you make yourself cry? And I was like, I don't know. Luckily I am quite emotionally incontinent. We walked out of the room and his arms were in a nice way, consensual. Yeah. Appropriate way. Yeah. And it was fully appropriate. And he went, right. This is a guy that's going to play Kevin. And then the next thing that happened, Andy Serkis walked in with dreads. He's on Amazon. And I'm asking you about the accent. He was playing a Glaswegian pimp and David, the director goes like, he's the real thing. Sit down with him and he'll sort you out. So my first seconds as an actor were sitting down with the great Andy Serkis, who I loved from a kids TV show that he was doing called Streetwise, which is about crime fighting mountain bike couriers in London. Oh, wonderful. Wait, so did you want to be an actor? Never thought about it. Wow. Isn't that crazy? I never thought about it. The lore goes though, that you then fell in love with your co-star and then you were like, okay, I want to stick with acting. I didn't fall in love with her. There was that actor in the movie who played my sister. She was really nice to me, got on and I fancied her. And so she said, you should come to Paisley youth theater. So I got on the train every Thursday night or something like that and went all the way out to Paisley because I fancied this lovely young woman. Yeah, here we would say you were in love with her, but there we're not saying that. That's like a big distinction. Yeah. When you're a little kid, like when you're 15, I was falling in love with like people lying at the amusement park in love. Oh no, I definitely, I would like imprint. I would've gotten married like a thousand times at 15 if I would have been allowed to the boy scout. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have the thing before it? The Cubs? Yeah. Cubs scouts. So we had Cubs scouts back home and I was in the Cubs. I lasted a week in the scouts and then I gave up, but I was in the Cubs. We went away on camp for the week and the girl guides were also there and they were staying on one side of the Shelly. We were staying in the other side of this big scout hall out in the mountains of Scotland. And there was this young girl, she must've been about 13. She called Linda. Linda, if you remember this, you made a big impression. This is a man who doesn't remember anything. Linda. Yeah. That's true. And she was doing a good deed for the day because I was complaining. I was like, I didn't bring enough socks and my socks are full of mud and they're soaking and like, oh God. Not very resourceful as a boy scout. Yeah, I know. Right. And she said, give them to me. I'll clean them for you tonight. And that'll be my good deed for the day. And I swear to you for about a year after that, I thought about Linda and making her your wife and making her, I thought about subjugating Linda for a year after that. Yeah, these first crushes. Oh, they're incredible. Okay. I've got kind of like a loose theory. The two things that you've done in your early life that boggle me. One is you were considering priesthood for a minute. Yeah. Like that seemed appealing. It would take you places potentially. Essentially, I was like, I always wanted to travel. I had a sense of the world outside and I wanted to meet it. So missionary work, I thought would be a good way to do that. Right. Right. Good travel plan. And then you met Linda and you're like, I don't think I can do that. I don't think I can do that. the celibacy part yeah that's tricky then the second thing that i can't imagine doing is you had enlisted for the royal navy no i was accepted what'd you call it not conditionally what was it uh probationary no the police was like assured if i if i wanted it okay so i'm wondering those two things also are turnkey stability you mean you're locked into a life it's one-stop shopping you join the priesthood everything is mapped out for you it has the appeal of built-in structural stability and i think is where the other thing that they both have which maybe helped pull me in was notwithstanding the countless negatives and atrocities that have happened in both those institutions yeah yeah there's a romance to them as well there's a romance to the idea of the travel but also the endeavor the profound feeling of being part of a team and purpose which i think appealed to me that was something i was looking for and it wasn't until i kind of half-heartedly said to myself i do like acting i have done it few times like on tv or film and i've done this youth theater thing for like a year maybe i should just try it for acting school as well because really that is what i should have been doing but i only tried out for one acting school because i couldn't afford to relocate to london where most of the acting schools are there's one major one in scotland and that was in my hometown of glasgow thankfully so i tried out for it and luckily i got in because if i hadn't i might have been on a boat somewhere stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare we are supported by allstate checking allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance not checking the weather forecast before you walk out the door you looked outside saw blue sky felt great about your outfit choice no jacket no umbrella fast forward two hours you're sprinting through a parking lot in a downpour holding a notebook over your head like that's going to help yeah checking first is a 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work for you so you and your team can focus on what matters most which for me is are they obsessed with male bodies on the same level as i am they never are to learn how to put ai to work for people visit servicenow.com do you remember having any fear at that moment of the future like that these things like i'm saying that are turnkey did you have anxiety about having to start real life and having to figure that out do you remember being plagued with that or no i don't know if i am sort of remembering things differently or not but i had a sort of security and sense that whatever happened i'd be okay which i have less these days which is nuts and i just knew that whatever happened i'd have a roof over my head and i'd be able to feed myself and i'd be able to eat my food and i'd be able to eat my food and i'd be able to feed myself i'd make it happen and i think that's part of the childhood as well not everybody who goes through some mad stuff in their childhood comes out like this but i think it did help me i don't know if this is all true it's pseudo physiological stuff maybe so if you want to argue with it please do but i've heard the science behind having a freezing cold shower in the morning the reason why it's so good for you is it puts you into a fight or flight first thing in the morning your body also understands and your brain also understands i could deal with that and i'm still breathing and i'm still alive so when you miss the bus or you miss the meeting it doesn't become this fucking thing yeah you're not defeated easily yeah and i think i kind of like in terms of my whole life that happened to me early in my life i'd say the last 10 years or last few years it sort of tested me a little bit more again i'm further away from that i'm almost a different person i guess you know what i mean you've gotten soft i think in the lap of luxury you're starting to wonder if you're still scrappy you know what i think i just trusted that i would be the kind of keeping an eye on myself that i did until i was almost 30 i'm speaking very sort of respectfully about mental illness but i'm literally doing this yeah yeah sure the cartoon version of crazy for the listener yeah where you spin your finger around your temple this sort of self-awareness and this sort of self-care i guess that i would sort of practice up until i was like 30 i then became sort of like you know what i can relax i think i may be relaxed a bit too much and i need to kind of keep an eye on it well okay that's one explanation what about it's actually weirdly less scary to have nothing and be trying to get something is to have something and it occurs to you i might lose it yeah yeah so it's like yeah what was at stake for you when at the beginning virtually nothing you're not going to make a decision whereby you walk away from something fantastic it's all out there together you can only go up yeah i remember having a conversation with an actor who described their early career coming out of acting school feeling like well i guess what happens is you come out of acting school and then you spend a year or two doing smaller things and then you become Brad Pitt yeah and i never had that my idea was if i can pay the bills as an actor that's my ambition and that would be massive success that will almost be like at the top end of what i allow myself to expect and so setting i guess achievable goals but also having a fair understanding of just how hard it is and i get maybe that's because i wasn't looking inward i was looking outward i could see how hard it was for everybody didn't expect it to just happen for myself also just the brass tacks of it is like i say there wasn't 20 scottish movie stars getting produced out of it every single year so you're kind of going like how is this going to happen for me you know yeah so after you get out of school you graduate in 2000 you have this pretty long period post-graduation where you're just doing a lot of television and you're doing plays and joe wright sees you at a play and he virtually over the years offers you kind of a couple different movie roles you want nothing to do with it most of that i didn't want anything to do with it it was joe asked me to be in a bbc costume drama charles ii and it was a fairly small part that i was up for doing and then i got offered like a lead role one of the main characters in the original version of you know that show william h macy does shameless the original version that was set in manchester and i was in the original cast of that oh my god you know dumb i am that's a 405 i didn't realize you were in the original one yeah i did my research i thought you were on the showtime version no no it was nuts like watching the first episode of the 40 minutes of it watching actors and that do stuff that we improvised on the day and you're like this is wild oh yeah is it the jeremy allen white character i think so wow i don't know i couldn't be held to account we'll find out later i said look i've got to go and do this show my agent was like you've got to go and do the show you're gonna get paid more it's a really good writer it's great could be a really good thing and it's a bigger part you'd be daft not to do it and i remember joe was really annoyed with me he was really angry with me and then he got me back when he was going to do a movie version of bird song which later became a really good tv version and he brought me in and we worked on that and then for some reason somebody was going to do atonement they pulled out and working title said to joe get off bird song we want you to do atonement and so he brought me in for that and i camera tested a bunch of times with kira and i knew who i was up against but i think it was me killian jake chillenhall apparently and oh good lord oh fuck all the handsomest guys in the world yeah i think last happened Yeah, 05 is Narnia, 06 is Scotland, and then 07 is Atonement. Yeah, so I shot it in 2006. I loved playing that part. I loved the process of working with Joe in that. He was like one of the best actors, directors I've ever worked with. And I totally stole from him when I directed my first movie. Not actually with how I talked to the actors, but how I talked to the crew. Why? How does he talk to the crew? He did this thing that maybe other directors will be angry at me for saying this because they say, oh, do you do that? I don't know, but he's the only director I feel like I've ever seen do this, which is you do the rehearsal, and usually the DP's there and the first AD's there, and the actors and the director. And then you go talk about shots a little bit, and then the crew come in for the crew show. That's the end of that, and then the AD will start telling people, like, we're going to do this, we're going to do that, we're going to do that. And then we all filter away. The movie starts to kind of come together. We would do the crew show, and at the end of the crew show, Joe would go, right, so that was the scene, and this is what it is to me, and this is what I feel about it. This is what I want maybe the audience to feel about it. This is what James' character's going through here, part of the arc, the pivotal. Right. The pivotal point for his arc is at this point, and then for Kira's character, this is happening. And what we're really going to do, and he's playing music through all this as well. Oh, my God. And he goes, like, okay, let's go. And everybody steps away feeling like a movie maker. Yeah. Right. They're all on the same page. They know the tone. Rather than, like, did I get a script? What are we making? Is this Downton Abbey or what? Oh, that's beautiful. It welcomes everybody in and makes them invest, I think. It gives them ownership over it. Yeah. You might talk to my crew, and they'll be like, oh, yeah, didn't know she did that. But it felt like you are making it. It is a miracle. And he said this, Joe, and I've said it for years since. Filmmaking is a miracle of collaboration. The more you can accept that and rely on that, the more you welcome in the great technical professionals and artists that are at your disposal. Yeah. Who've made way more movies in their department than you have as a director. It's really hard, I think, for a director sometimes to do that because they're sitting there having done maybe two shorts and a music video, and suddenly they've got, like, five million budget, and they're like, okay. I need to have the answers to all these questions. Or they just kick in. They kick the can down the road a lot of times because I feel like they're scared to say I don't have the answer. Whereas for me, I was like, I've been booed on stage. I've watched people leave. My movies have been slaughtered. My ego can take you thinking I'm not a good director, but I need to find the answer here. So if I didn't have the answer, I'd be like, help me. Well, quickly, how did you go from Shameless to getting Narnia? That's kind of a big, was there some fortuitous meaning or something? I was kind of on the up in British TV, and I got Shameless, and Shameless had done really well. With its first season, it kind of became like a big thing quite quickly. And so maybe that helped get me on the radar a wee bit. But I mean, I'd been kicking about for a few years by this point, four or five years. I hear, and I don't know if this is wrong. I heard they had an older actor who was like in his thirties at the time, who's really well known comedian. They did a chemistry test or something with one of the wee girls that was potentially going to play Lucy. And they all went, this is creepy. This is creepy as shit. So they. They needed to find a sort of fairly experienced actor who looked like a child. And I looked like a child until I was about 29 or 30, I'd say. And you have a little sister. Yeah, only two years younger, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but you have experience. Yeah. So they wanted the lack of threat because, you know, Mr. Tumnus essentially kidnaps Lucy. I know. And drugs her. Yeah. Well, not drugs her, puts her to sleep with music. Drugs her with music. Yeah. And then hands her over to the White Witch. It is pretty. It's pretty intense when you think about it. You're really making me rethink. Well, do you know, another story to embarrass you. So I saw it in the movie theater with my best friend, Callie. And we walked out and she goes, Mr. Tumnus is so hot. What? This is so mental. He was and is obsessed. And I'll be honest. I was like, the half animal. Half goat guy? Yeah. I was like that. What? So it was a joke for a long time that she was in love with Mr. Tumnus. There's definitely been some Tumnus. I think over the years. Yeah. It definitely makes me like Callie more. He's kinky, I guess. Yeah, that's great. You know the weird thing? C.S. Lewis, when he wrote that, he writes a scene where the wee girl comes to the wardrobe. She meets a gentleman. They get on famously. They go back home. They have a brilliant conversation. And then he puts her to sleep and he hands her over and kidnaps her. Right. For that role, he chose the faun or the satyr, which in Greek mythology anyway, is the not just follower, but disciples really of Dionysus, the Bacchae, the Bacchus, who engaged in a major raves and orgies. Like they were a promiscuous sexual entity. The pan figure. Yeah. Yeah. I guess she could sense it. Yeah, she was looking for something a little. She really was. God bless Callie. She was into Mr. Tumnus. Good on you, Callie. That movie was an enormous success. I mean, it made $500 million. Were you experiencing after that movie like, oh, I'm in a major hit, people are seeing me on the street. Were you having that moment after that movie? I don't know, actually, if I was. Because I looked so different. I'm not sure that I really did that. Shameless was the biggest thing. Back Home, anyway, was shameless. And it's on TV. You're in everyone's living room. Exactly. And that was such a sort of, we must tune in to Shameless because it was just, what's going to happen this week? It's mental. I think Shameless was a big one. And then it was probably Wanted for a long time. Then X-Men, of course. Well, there's one interesting thing about Last King of Scotland, my favorite movie. I love that movie so much. Thank you. I stole one of the songs for the second one. The second movie I directed. I just put it straight in there. That incredible Afro-Cuban song that's playing. I can't off the top of my head remember the name. It's a great soundtrack, isn't it? It's the most incredible soundtrack. But I learned today that Forrest Whitaker suggested you to Kevin MacDonald. I don't think so. I thought I was on board before Forrest. Oh, okay. I was on board from like I was 22 or something. And again, it got lucky because we had a Scottish director, Kevin MacDonald, and we had a movie that kind of needed a star in it for Fox Searchlight to back it up. And we were pretty low budget. But still, I think they were out to Sam Jackson, who I've later worked with and love, but he wasn't available in the end. So Forrest came in. But before that, I was offered the job. I take the job. I'm going to do the job. But it was like a year of like, are we going to get green light? Are we going to find the right guy for Edie? And in that time, kind of what happened on Wanted happened on this as well, where they were like, this is a low budget independent feature. And they were like, we need a star in that role. Nobody knows who this kid James McAvoy is. The director, who was Scottish. I think it was like, well, we need somebody who's Scottish because the role is Scottish. The film's called Last Game of Scotland. It's important. And I don't want somebody doing an accent that's bad. And they made him see lots of people who were stars already. And he just fought for me. And I was so lucky. And he asked me to camera test a year after I'd got the part. And I was like, I feel like you could only lose it. Yeah, totally. And I think I gave a really bad audition. And somehow he still fought for me to get the part. So thank you, Kevin MacDonald. You're so outrageously good in it. Is it a movie or? Are you proud of? Yeah, definitely. It's such a fucking incredible movie. The texture of the movie, the colors of the movie. Anthony Dodd-Mantle and Kevin, their work together in that was just stunning. And I've worked with Anthony again, the DP, when I did a Danny Boyle film. He's just so, so good. He felt very Danny Boyle. The movie felt pretty Danny Boyle in a good way. Anthony's work is so dynamic. Always on the edge. Always trying to push the forefront of a new technology or something. Which I don't think necessarily he was doing in Last King. But it felt. It felt really dynamic. And it's a beautiful film to look at as well. Yeah. Yeah, I'm really proud of it. Yeah, it's so spectacular. And you were so young when you got to do that. I was a kid, man. Yeah, yeah. 27, 27. I look at myself in that and I'm like, I look 16. This is so weird. Yeah. Okay, then Atonement comes along and we talked about that. And you were nominated for Golden Globe for that. You and Kira nominated for a BAFTA. Now, this is not to be mean, but I know this happened twice. Where Atonement is based on a novel. And the author came. The author came out and said that she did not agree with the casting of you, right? No, that happened on a. Well, it also happened. I think it was Zadie Smith on White Teeth. Well, then there's a. Oh, no. You don't want to be on this. There's a third third because the one that I wrote, though. Was it His Dark Materials? No. No. No, no, no, no, no. Philip never said that. That's not it. But I kind of stayed away from Philip because I was scared to meet him. Okay. And I also, on Atonement, chose to stay out of the way of Ian McKeown because I was just like, I'm nothing like the character you wrote physically. And I don't want you to tell me that. Okay, okay, okay. It's crazy. I remember on that set, I was playing the lover of Cecilia or Celia. Cecilia or Cecilia? Played by Keira Knightley. Incredible actor. One of the most beautiful women in the world. Yeah, outstanding. And I was like. And I'm like. I scraped in through like endless camera tests past people who already had big movie careers. I was like, I'm kind of lucky to be here. And like the character's written is this like. I think the word Adonis is how he's described, you know? He's like six foot five, working college. Going to private school, kind of like Adonis belt and all that. And I'm like five foot nothing and like skinny and pale as shit. And, you know, still been able to do my job and feeling entitled enough to be there. It was a wild success. You know, they say action and I forget all that. But then I also remember Keira's boyfriend at the time was on set a lot. And we were filming this beautiful, beautiful country house outside Ludlow in Shropshire. And it was the middle of like a heat wave in summer. I just remember like one of these moments, I was thinking to myself like, I hope people will believe me. I hope people will believe that she'd actually fall in love with me or whatever. And like, oh God, that would actually be a couple. And I just looked up and I saw her boyfriend at the time who was no top horn, six foot odd, jacked, long flowing hair, just coming over the hill like Heathcliff. And I'm just like, ah, fuck. If I ever needed a shriveler, that was it. Yeah, yeah. Okay, now you start X-Men. That franchise starts in 2011. You play Professor X. I guess I was wondering when you go into that movie, and it's fascinating. Aspender and Jennifer Lawrence and that gang how does that relationship evolve are you ever intimidated how does it evolve you end up doing four together is it like do you keep returning to summer camp what's the vibe of doing four of those movies yeah the first ones were nuts actually the first one I was like the most senior member of the cast really in terms of movie experience and age and then getting to be on the other side of the decision making process a little bit because like I was part of the camera tests with all these different actors like Moira and Magneto even I remember we saw a few great actors from Magneto who were incredible and have gone on to have amazing careers but when Michael came in it was just like as a movie star but again a real actor as well and we thought like we could definitely build something and have good chemistry together I think the first one's great it's a lot of fun and it's a bit of a reboot in terms of tone from any of the other x-men movies I didn't realize Matthew Vaughn directed that until yeah and he really put his own stand on it I loved it for that the movie kind of like survives on the chemistry of the buddies you know I mean the buddy movie well not to be cruel to previous comic book movies but this one was actor first I don't think I had ever seen a cast assembled that was so actor driven Favreau did that with having Downey play Iron Man I think that was very like actor first but other than that this one is just oh this is so cool these are the superheroes that was Matthew totally totally going for that character arc was like so important to the plot progression but everybody that came in after that was just like one after the other incredible actor incredible actor incredible energy as well I'll never forget the first time I met Jen and she like flew in she's already picking up awards and up for an Oscar for like Winter's Bone or something like that I wish she up for an Oscar for that anyway but winning everything she hadn't done Silver Linings yet or no no that was a good few years later she was 18 she got off the plane came in caution fit and rehearsed all day and then took a plane out that night you know I mean I didn't see her again for two weeks but the energy and the kind of quality of career and the kind of quality of character and the kind of charisma of that person it was like standing in front of a high-powered fan yourself she's amazing one of the fastest wits I've been around in the movie business is Jen Lawrence her and Stephen Fry just yeah yeah special okay Split I want to talk about just because you got jacked you know I didn't get that jacked for Split I didn't have time okay Glass the sequel Split I got the gig like two weeks before we shot it because it was meant to be I'd get in trouble naming the actor who was I've done it too many times and apparently I should stop doing it but anyway there was another actor playing the part and he for whatever reason decided not to do it fairly last minute I got the job two or three weeks beforehand so I really didn't have a chance to get too big I was toned and all that so it was fine and we made the most out of it with lighting and stuff but Glass I'd actually been in hospital for what I had a split personality I had a lung puncture because they saw a shadow on my lung so they wanted to biopsy it to see if it was cancer which it wasn't which was great but that was botched and I nearly died because you got an infection yeah I was at home two days later and my lungs just collapsed in bed one night and I was on my own as well so it was crazy oh my goodness crazy so I spent like two or three weeks in hospital they tried everything to clean out nothing was working so they were like we're going to need to cut you open big style go in with like dish soap basically and just like clean you out scoop it all up yeah so I had to then go from that to one of the X-Men movies and I knew I had the time of that X-Men movie which is like four or five months to get ready for Glass and Glass unlike Split I was the beast like most of the movie and I was just outside in broad daylight as well so you don't have too much cool studio lighting to give you like the contours yeah yeah yeah yeah and so I was like I'm really going to need to do the real thing I'm going to need to go for it I remember saying in night like you're going to get me a trainer it's like oh yeah we'll get you down the local gym in one of the trainers or whatever I was like no I want the Marvel I've worked with those guys before and they're great you know I mean but I'm going to need somebody that can make you look like a Greek freaking figure from mythology do you know what I mean the people who know how to do it and they're expensive but the guy that worked me was amazing and he came to Montreal where I was making the movie for X-Men it wasn't Duffy by chance no no no no it was Magnus Magnus Ligbeck perfect name for that he looks like a Viking he didn't move in with me but he was just with me a lot and kind of regulated what I ate and trained me just right and basically for the first four weeks he rehabilitated me I could walk but I couldn't run couldn't cycle couldn't jog and I was like on set every day as well doing crazy hours as Charles and so he did a lot of rehabilitation and functional movement and then put the pounds on me really fast and do you not get addicted to it like I'm so addicted I was addicted to it for about three years and I was like honestly the biggest I've ever been I was in the film speak no evil there's a shot in it where people are like you're CGI there you're CGI wasn't was it a decision to like all right I'm gonna not yeah I got a movie in Germany back in 2024 and it was like this is not good for this character I stopped doing that I started running I started walking and just eating a hell of a lot less and got skinny again for the first time in years my neck kind of disappeared my traps disappeared my traps get too big too quick poor you oh darling it's just a shame my muscles they just grow so easily they're out of control and then kind of liked the hours that I got back in my day and then I started directing and you give your whole life to that for like two years this is two years since I wrapped the movie I started properly working on the movie about three years ago and I'm still here three years later I'm still here trying to sell my movie it's different as a director you never let them go you know you think about it all the time you're sweating blood about it all the time you're anxious about it all the time you're loving it all this hopefully you were loving all the time I did I was lucky enough to be able to love it but I think that's why it's important to do something if you're capable and you know not everybody's in this position as a director but if you're lucky enough to be able to choose your work and create your work you really need to be trying to create the stuff that you feel genuinely passionate about because you are going to sweat blood for it yeah if you're doing that for something that you're not really invested in oh my God that'd be so destroying so how do you decide to take on California Scheme and do you read it because you're so employed as an actor we could have gone for another two hours on all the things you're doing and then also you're doing plays in the West End why at that moment do you decide yeah okay I'm gonna make the time for it now what's happening in life first of all it's the professional thing of I've not reached the end I've not completed acting but I am at a place where I'm really quite comfortable you know if I've got the right kind of role that I'm suitable for yeah then I'm pretty comfortable and so it was about kind of putting myself in a place where I'm not comfortable again I guess and challenging myself were you getting a little bit bored I heard you say it in other interviews that this probably does correlate to a midlife crisis to some degree directing yeah I was either a Porsche or directing yeah I don't think directing was part of the midlife crisis that's something that I felt I needed to do for years and years and years and since I was in my 20s really but having a nice career as an actor got in the way of it I guess what was it about this one at this time I don't know I put the word out there that I wanted to direct and look how many people wanted to do that I'm just going to tell my agent I fancy directing the film and then I'll start to get scripts I'm really very genuinely aware of what a privileged position that is to be in but everything that was coming to me was the kind of stuff that like for example I've played like five or six Scottish people in my entire career because there's just not that many movies made about Scottish people and when I say I want to be a director it's a privilege I get furnished with scripts every one of them are Scottish a lot of them are like the poverty kind of exploitation a little bit I think the writers would argue that it's not exploitation it's examination and a sort of revelation but I wanted to do something that was entertaining so when this came along it kind of ticked those boxes because it was about that end of the socio-economic ladder it was also about my home country and it was also about something that I've experienced the boys in this film to make it in the business and show business they had to sacrifice their authenticity their integrity and their identity in a very specific set of circumstances where they're almost told they need to do that now that doesn't necessarily get told to everybody but that is a path as an artist you are going to walk the path that they walk in that film is one that I still feel like I've walked a version of for 30 years which is how much of myself am I sacrificing to get what I want and what do you want do you want a bigger part a better part more money Awards like what is it and at what point because everybody has sacrificed something the postman sacrifices his time with his family every time he walks out the house to go and be a postman so we all sacrifice something for our jobs but when is it too much when are you sacrificing your identity your identity your health your whatever but when is it too much because the business is I think based on sacrifice the whole idea of the show must go on you wear it as a badge of honor and you adhere to that principle the show must go on but you're like if the show must go on it's really easy to exploit people yeah it's really easy to hurt people and also your bosses are usually only your bosses for a few months or a season or whatever you're somebody else's problem on the next one so just get what you need to get out of them no matter what it does to them which is why it's a dangerous place for kids I think based on this idea that I've always got in my head which is like the first play was an animal or a person being sacrificed and they were trying to make the rain come or whatever and it was smoke and there was production values and all that kind of stuff and everybody was just there to try and make the rain come for the crop but at the same time everyone's like that was really cool can we do that again next Saturday night yeah I mean yeah yeah so I think our relationship with what's on stage and what's worn screen and any kind of performance or part of the contract is the audience expect you to sacrifice something yeah they expect you to leave something of yourself on the table or on the screen you know because they're going to openly admire and adore you and we know intrinsically that you should have to pay something in return yeah I think so I know but I think that is the intrinsic bargain on the table we are social primates we are status handles for us give up status which is what you do as an audience member you've got to give me something I want to see you bleed a little bit you got to earn it that's the artistic dynamic between you and the audience yeah but that permeates I think through the business side and the kind of institution of the business as well where it's like it's all about sacrifice so everybody just sort of willingly sacrifices and that's why a lot of people get hurt I think yes okay so let's just start with the fact that this is based on a true story which is kind of mind-blowing and I wonder did you have any awareness of Billy and Gavin in 2003 do you know what my sister was in a Scottish hip-hop group at the time called Streetside and she I seem to remember her mentioning something about these mad guys syllable and brains but no I really didn't know anything until the script came across my desk and then I had a look at the documentary there's a really good documentary called the great hip-hop hoax and I was like this is wild and it gives me the opportunity to entertain but also talk about something that is part of the collective kind of Scottish experience as well yeah so okay so there's two boys in Scotland Billy and Gavin and they're of low economic status they're getting bullied when we meet them they're not the studs of their school right they're getting chased everywhere they go and they're super into rapping and then they hear about this record label that's open auditions trying to find the next Eminem basically yeah the flight at the time I think was the next d12 the next Eminem right so these two kids go down to London which it's its own huge journey the thing that I loved about it that you immediately captured is that it's a huge journey and it's a huge journey that you immediately capture is like I just remember being that age and whatever I did I thought I was in a fucking famous novel like just the enthusiasm I had to go to downtown Detroit or to go do this thing I used to listen to music on my way to work I felt like I was in a movie it was amazing and I don't know if I just don't have that anymore because I'm old yeah or if I don't have that anymore because we're never just alone with our thoughts as much as we are because of like social media or whatever is that it I think it's just the fantasy there's so much that's going on and I think it's just the fantasy there's so much that's going on unknown ahead of you and so because it's unknown you're free to just pick the most spectacular version of what the unknown might be but then over your 47 years a lot's known a lot's been experienced if I could implant into 17 year old James your life currently on paper what you would have thought that was going to feel like versus what it has felt like I'd never between those would be so enormous huge yeah huge and I think I'd look at some of the decisions I've made or some of the sort of ways that I live my life and I'd be like no don't do that man yeah I think I would judge myself a little harshly sure I don't know about you as a performer and as an actor but one of the reasons why I think performance or in education for young children is really valuable especially for kids who come from neighborhoods without many opportunities is that it for me standing on stage or standing in front of the camera getting bad reviews failing and then still realizing I'm still alive and I get to go again and I get to try again and I learn or I don't it makes me understand that the next time I need to go into a room and speak to people whether you become an actor or not putting your kids on stage not for work just for fun yeah yeah it can really help them understand that when the spotlight is on them in everyday walk of life they'll be okay they'll survive that doesn't become a fight-or-flight response it becomes like no I just need to tell them what my plan is for the next week of this business you know what I mean yeah death is not on the other side of this no if I can't speak properly it doesn't mean I'll die and it doesn't mean I'm going to get fired and all these things and I think that when you get a certain level of higher education and people say entitlement I think the biggest thing that they come away with is not more intelligence necessarily is but a feeling of entitlement entitlement is not a bad thing everybody should feel entitled to be there to be present to have value to have their place in the room the only thing that's wrong is there's only a certain pocket of people in society who get to feel entitled yes yes so these two kids they make their way to London yeah and they rap for these scouts and they're so fucking Scottish yeah and I guess what would be funny to us over here is like we don't know all the rungs of the status ladder as far as these accents go but what is clear is that it's pretty looked down upon yeah yeah there's definitely a regional bias it's not just to do with Scotland actually it's like to do with even the north of England and certain regional parts we have it obviously with the south right like the north makes fun of the south and the implication is that they talk dumb I'm learning a lot about the south and the north makes fun of the south and the north makes fun of the south I mean that's a similar it's definitely a part of our culture it's not every single person but it's been enough that I can 100 back it up that it happens you know I mean is it the worst kind of bias is it the worst kind of prejudice no there are many kinds but this is the one that I've experienced in my life and it's also a movie that I resonated with because of it but it also gives you a fun chip on your shoulder I think a chip a chip a chip I don't know if I've had the chip in my shoulder I used to a little bit when I was in my early 20s I was looking for the fight because it made you feel like you were solid you were on solid ground you knew where you were just find the injustice and fight it whereas I'm a bit more forgiven and kind of take it on with conversation more now but I think that one of the reasons why the story is fairly universal and even though it is very specifically Scottish is because that happens everywhere there's whole swathes of North America who get left out when it comes to the people that are allowed to be seen on screen all over the world all over Britain there's parts of it where no you don't get to be an artist in that way you don't get to be on screen in this way there's whole swathes of our society that aren't served culturally and there's whole swathes culturally or represented culturally as we know it's a reductive thing for me to say we know this but this example of it was something that I noticed and sometimes people go to me oh but there's so many Scottish actors and I'm like name me 10 right go like name me 10 Scottish movies and name me 10 in the last 10 years you kind of go boohoo it's nobody's responsibility to serve the cultural needs of Scotland other than Scotland we need to do better it's not Hollywood's responsibility to make movies about Scottish people but that's why I wanted to make this I wanted to make a film that was about the Scottish experience but which is also sort of celebratory of Scottish culture and also entertaining stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare they're running a cover to defense but you're running to get game day deals on uber eats keep everyone at tonight's watch party fed with deals from your go-to restaurants or stock up with deals on your favorite snacks and drinks and groceries whatever the occasion get game day deals on uber eats all season long it's not football without food uber eats order now terms apply product availability varies by region see app for details yeah so these kids they do this audition and of course they're promptly told like we can't even fucking understand you they literally get called the rapping proclaimers and that's a line that the two guys say that they heard right then and by the way the proclaimers rapping I'm here for that what are the proclaimers the proclaimers and I would walk 500 miles an hour yeah I'm down for the rapping proclaimers honestly but for these two guys who were so in love with American culture and hip-hop and comic books that was the worst thing you could have said not even being rejected but like to be likened to these arguably quite straight square folksy rockers from Scotland and told that nobody wants you doing this so then they decide they're going to present themselves as rappers from California and this is a real story yeah they invent these whole cat they basically engage in method acting for two and a half years of their life and the real story was two and a half years it was two and a half our movie feels like two and a half months there's a milly vanilly parallel a little bit these guys could actually perform they could rap they could write they were yeah they were quite good but there was a lie at the heart of it yeah so they start pretending to be rappers and they're like oh my god I'm not gonna they're from LA but then they don't know anything about LA at one point they see we're in LA and they go like Beverly Hills and they're like oh that was a miss we're from the projects which projects you know the ones in Beverly Hills and they're like what there's a better to go like where you from where them goes sandy and the other one goes Angeles and they're like yeah sandy yes yes they don't know shit so they gotta fucking get their story straight and then lo and behold they go and perform somewhere as these American rappers who are apparently on tour in Europe and there's a record label of which you play the CEO or the president of that and they get now round two audition with the same company now they're as Americans and they get signed the same music the same song just like with a few lytic tweaks and different accents and they get a record contract wow and then they start performing and then now this pressure of like when are they gonna finally announce yeah the jig is up so the idea was that they were gonna you know they're gonna be like oh my god they're gonna be like oh my god they're gonna be like oh go down there hopefully get the deal and then the game was as soon as we release something we're gonna come out and expose the industry for this regional bias that we've suffered because here we are with the exact same tracks and you all love it and here we are on MTV and they did go on MTV a lot and then of course when they get that moment in the movie they get that moment where they release the track and they're on MTV and here's the moment they're gonna come clean they're gonna embarrass the music industry or at least this label that they've been working with and of course they can't enjoy the fame okay back to the thing that we just said about you too is like they were fearless when they had nothing to lose and then the second they had something yeah they were overrun with fear of losing it it's weird i don't think i've ever been afraid of losing my career ah yes i have i don't know what is it that made me mental in the last few years you would concede you'd have to adjust your lifestyle now yeah yeah that's a legitimate fear it's like i live this way i enjoy living this way i don't really feel fear it's weird i don't get motivated by fear so it's an interesting question for me but i think one that i'll bore everybody by sitting here pondering why did i go off the rails just recently yeah it's weird to think about you can rest on a big moral high ground when you don't have anything you know like i mean this is going to be an unpopular opinion i think but i do think it's true and when i listen to people on podcasts and stuff and they're always taking down like people who have money or people who are famous and i'm like it's really easy for you to say because you don't have it and when you have it of course you want to keep it of course you like it of course it changes you i don't know it's a tricky judgmentalism i find it so hard to accept i'm not patting myself on the backs and i never judge people we judge people every day we do it subconsciously you have to do not get mugged you make an assessment of the person you're chatting with are they going for my wallet or not do i trust this person to get in their car exactly there's nothing wrong with a certain level of it you have to to survive but going out of your way to express your opinions on how other people are living your lives that have got no bearing on your day how they parent how they park it does not affect me let them be do you know what i mean yes yes yes it's hard enough being yourself without having opinions about other people's shit yeah anyway it's a weird one there's a lot of different uses for it some of them are just vile some of them are to shore up your own motivation which is like ah that's why i work really hard on the thing so that i'm not like that do you spend time like in the playground with like other parents people you've never met before but your kids are playing together so the other parents kind of telling you their parental choices with conviction like no no it's the only way you must you must you must and you're like i know when you go home you're doing the exact same thing as me which is this isn't working is this right i don't know should we be trying something else but you're in the park proselytizing to me editorializing to me preaching to me like you have completed parenting yes but that's to make you feel better that's the great illusion of parenting is you do figure it out and then one week later they're different yeah they move the goalposts yes and you're like oh no i need a new strategy this week and it just then they become teenagers and you're like oh my god now i need an entirely like i'm re-meeting them almost as totally different people now because there's quite a lot of years between my eldest and my youngest you're 16 and four yeah yeah i'm doing it all again and it's kind of hilarious being back in the park and all the dynamics with other parents yeah is this thing that guys do quite a lot where they're like oh yeah i'm doing it all again and it's kind of you'll be watching your kid play with some other kid and we've never met before but our kids are suddenly like tight and you're like standing beside this guy you've never met before and he'll go like oh your kid's really like he can really run or like oh he can really hold the monkey bars brilliantly that's that's great and like what age is uh what age is your kid because he's trying to like gauge it is my kid failing should my kid be doing better and you're like oh it's a weird thing we do with this kind of comparison i always want to say like oh he's three actually yeah it comes from from the sweetness because i do think you don't know when you have a baby you don't know what they're supposed to be doing so you are yeah you are kind of looking to see like are they on crack yes do i need a specialist you're always waiting to find out if you need a specialist or not yeah but she's been making this weird noise really loudly for a month and a half is it time for a special it just goes away you're like oh thank god we didn't need a special i know i know it's a wild thing you do being a parent well the other fun thing that it exposes once you turn on the light switch to being popular the intoxication of that and the availability of drink and drugs and attractive people and late nights the rapidity at which that took over these right right how one navigates that in a healthy manner is beyond me anyone who can do that i'm impressed especially when you're young as well and you're still forming and all that look i navigated it a little bit with for a lot of my 20s i was kind of keeping an eye on myself and i think i went too far but i was like work ethic work really hard be super professional that was my life it was kind of devout actor do you know what i mean yeah were you not going out and partying at all little bit but nothing nothing regular you were married really young too i was married pretty young and nobody at home was going oh we are working class and always remember you're working class but it's in you you come from it and i left it really young but it's in my head it was like the whole idea of stay true to where you come from don't forget where you came from all that which is a good thing in some ways because it's a good thing to do and it's a good thing to do and i think i went too far away a little bit all my hatred of judgmentalism i was way more judgy when i was in my early 20s and all that of your peers and decisions they were making and all that and so that stopped me from really taking advantage of all the opportunities i could have had that could have also messed me right up yeah do you think some of it too is driven by the fact that you didn't feel like you belong there so you had to really prove with this crazy work ethic and this crazy dedication maybe as this piece of shit from scotland this terrible place with this ugly not just even the regional bias even just physically as well like i say against you're playing a romantic lead against kira knightley and like an amazingly beautiful costume drama that you just know is one of the best things you've ever worked on and will ever work on in your life you're like like five foot seven malnourished pasty transparent skin looking like they wouldn't have cast you if people saw you like that though yeah it's just you saying no but like in terms of your self-perception and by the way all these things that i've just said are true as well they're not really arguable about me at the time and so you go like i'm not the usual person i'm not the usual person i'm not the usual person i'm not the usual thing that would get here so i realize how lucky i am i better not fuck up i gotta work extra hard on atonement i remember joe wanted to live with some of the key crew and all of the actors in shropshire near ludlow where we were filming they all stayed in this big manor house kind of like the manor house that was used as a location and i remember thinking to myself i can't do that because i was scared of it them seeing the real you maybe or drinking too much going off if it's parties every night or whatever i don't know that's what happened there but if it's parties every night it was like that i would i be able to kind of like resist that and would i then be able to do my job and so i i remember it being a bit of a thing and it became quite clear that it was like no he definitely wanted us all to stay together so i kind of framed it as an actor and i was just like look robbie is he's the only one of the whole group who's working class he is separate he speaks like them but he isn't like them and i think i should be separate you convinced them yeah i lived in like the gardener's cottage of the property that the film was shot on it was amazing it was really beautiful i was there for like three months it was gorgeous okay so to finish up california scheme and it obviously comes to a head this lie is going to come out and then their life just kind of collapses yeah and the title sequence we see footage of these real guys and it's so rad to see it because it's a very unbelievable story and it kind of cements it for me at the beginning when it comes up at the beginning it says based on a true story and then we flip the word story to lie uh-huh does that make you think that you're watching a true story or does that make you think it's possibly fictional no i didn't do that not the latter because i think sometimes we did have a version of it without that at all at beginning so people just thought they were watching a rags to riches to rag story and then at the end they drop the information that holy shit this actually happened it's way more rewarding in my opinion to know what actually happened all right but i also love non-fiction over fiction but whatever the notion these two guys are going to pull off being american they're not even that good at it you know what if you ever watch the documentary which is a really good documentary the great hip-hop hoax the guys' accents are not really good they're slipping left right and center you'd have to be in england for you to believe that these guys were american they were on mtv and no one's catching they were on mtv multiple times it was trl was the show back then but we copyright we couldn't we could say it was mtv but we couldn't say it was trl back then i would be able to tell you if somebody was doing a bad american accent like in 2003 i'd be able to go you're doing an accent but here's the thing there was execs from the record label because the record label was a massive international record label they had the american offices arm and all that kind of stuff the execs from the american office coming over to britain going what are you guys doing here you need to get on a plane we're going to take you over we're going to go wild in america that's where you need to be and the guys the whole time are just going like we got british passports they still hadn't signed a contract because how could they sign a contract they've got no id that is anything other than scottish they couldn't get id it would be judged to be fake if they made it so they had to just keep dodging and swerving that was all in the script at one point but we condensed it that way yeah yeah yeah were they involved in the movie gavin and billy were involved in the movie that's why i was asking about the title sequence so did you spend time with these guys yeah gavin at first more so because billy was weirdly affiliated with a different film that was going to be about their journey but from his point of view more and then that film never happened unfortunately and billy came on air as late but gavin was really involved with the music what we realized when we got the rights the music from gavin who held all the rights back then only 20 odd years ago you know you were releasing hip-hop tracks you were sampling and sampling building the backing track and then you were putting it out there and you kind of went like that's a bit of sting that's a bit of so-and-so that's a bit of aretha franklin whatever and nobody cared now people care now people are like that so we got the rights to all the music and then realized we couldn't use any of the music because it had millions of dollars worth of samples in it exactly so we had to rebuild everything from the ground up to sound exactly the same but have no samples in yes which was not so he was really involved in that along with their amazing music supervisor and he was really involved in that and he was really involved in that along with their amazing music supervisor and music editor and then billy when he came on board we found ourselves needing some there was like some freestyle rap moments in it they're meant to be like freestyle rap moments and our writers archie and elaine who are brilliant they ain't rappers so they were like doing their version of something to be fair to them like they even held their hands up and were like you're gonna need to get somebody from the culture to do this so we got in touch with billy and he was like what do you want it to feel like what do you want to be talking about where's the character at this point and i just give him a whole list of what i thought it could be and he gave me like 20 things back in like 20 minutes wow and he was like i don't know it was amazing so his off the cuff kind of threw out in about half an hour freestyles open and close the movie that's awesome i'm assuming they both must look back on that and go like what an incredible wonderful chapter i'm so glad that was part of our life i think so i think i mean look i think it was a really complex time for during the fall for gavin yeah and you know as much as i was really keen to exploit the opportunities that this journey presented me as a filmmaker which was to make a really propulsive momentum driven entertaining mainstream movie that's funny and all that there's a guy in it who almost pays the ultimate price because of the effect it has on his mental health you're trying to like weigh that up and also not be exploitative of the guy's experience honor it and explore it but not exploit it in a titillating fashion fun of it exactly yeah and also even for billy although things never got quite as mortal for him he felt more certain than who he was going into it so he was more certain when it was time to leave but we're also showing him and who's now still married to mary and his three kids were showing him making some pretty dodgy decisions at the time as well and his kids had got to watch that and all that so i was very aware of all that i was really grateful to bit gavin and billy for coming with us and trusting me to handle those moments sensitively and not just expose them sort of titillatingly in a cartoonish way yeah yeah yeah okay my last question for you is you were premiering this movie at the toronto film festival yes and you got belted by a canadian he told me he was from mexico oh okay what do you mean belted hit with a bar yeah i was sitting like this i was sitting at the bar bars here and i'm sitting producer on this side producer on this side we've done like six days selling the hell out of our film i'm exhausted it's the end we're just going having a little roundup well done guys we did it and somebody just cold cocks me in the back of the head like oh that that much of a producer danny and john as well i was like and i was looking at them kind of laughing it was really sore but i was like what the fuck yeah and then i looked over there and i saw the guy storming out he'd been getting thrown out because he was really drunk and doing something weird around the corner we'd never laid eyes on each other he just randomly smacked a dude and so i immediately kind of went from zero to 90 and went after him sure and then the two producers they came after me and they put their hands i mean the minute they put their hands on me i was like i need to get on a plane i need to get back to my wife and kids if i end up like be the police or something this is and i immediately went from 90 to like zero but by this point the guy turned around and he just sees me getting held back so that then makes him come and so i'm getting held back even though i'm not looking for a fight anymore i've never gone like that hot to cold in my life that quick and he's like coming at me and he's getting held back and then he starts to do this thing that i don't know if you've ever experienced when you're in a fight it used to happen all the time when i was a kid when you're squaring up to somebody or somebody's like coming at you just before they throw a punch whatever they're telling you where they're from i'm from mexico he goes and i was like what the fuck is this i'm from mexico i'm from mexico i'm from mexico i'm from mexico and i almost went i'm in drum chapel yeah yeah yeah why do we feel the need to get that's so weird to give our zip code and postal because you're trying to establish your bona fide you're trying to intimidate the person into backing down that would be preferred it's like you know game of thrones they're like for fucking west iraq it's like many times for north cumbria yeah you're like we're still doing it for drum chapel yeah it's so it is it's like an honor thing if a guy says i'm from beverly hills versus i'm from baltimore these are relevant details yes nobody goes like i'm from chipping norton yeah yeah all things equal i would prefer to fight the guy from beverly hills than from baltimore look it was a whole lot of something and nothing i've said as well if i saw that guy i'm 100 sure he'd be an all right guy 90 sure the reverse engineering i would have done was like people knew you were there the dude knew there was a hot shot there he didn't like that someone was getting a lot of attention do you think it was fully random or do you think it might have had something to do with the fact that you're in movies you're in movies i think it was fully random from the way that the bar staff were talking to me they didn't even think he could see properly at that point yeah he's just swinging the bar staff said he thought he was in the bathroom and he was urinating in the bar around the corner but he was so far around the other side of the bar that we hadn't even laid eyes on each other some people will say that they have a punchable face but you could say you have a punchable back your head like you probably never even occurred to you that you're like maybe an inviting back of your head i've had some pretty offensive haircuts i'm desperate i'm desperately in need of a haircut right now oh i cut hair oh that's true you can't have fantastic have you ever had this thing as an actor where they're like could you just keep growing your hair just keep growing your hair and then the movie keeps going like that and you're like this is not a haircut this is not this is just growing out of here this is bad yeah yeah so yeah i need a haircut there's no shape to this there is no i've got to premiere a film and i don't have a haircut well james it's been a delight to meet you i thoroughly enjoyed your movie thank you what an incredible first time out directing it's called california scheming and it's out right now thank you yeah yeah yeah yeah I feel like this is so full circle for me yeah it is to have hated you and admired you and worshipped you and now to sit and talk with you is a delight that is wild that story yeah i hated this guy james mcavoy who is james mcavoy i'm so glad that you got to see um last king of scotland without knowing that that was the guy yes because that might have skewed your opinion of my my performance i hope i'm more objective than that but no it probably would have yeah yeah yeah well be well everyone see california scheming it's our october 9th gosh yes he is an armchair expert but he makes mistakes all the time thank god monica's here she's gotta let him have the facts why do you think we need two words excuse yourself or recuse yourself yeah don't they mean the same thing if you're if you have some conflict of legal issues you have to recruit well you would do the same as if you excuse yourself yeah but i think recuse might be the same thing if you're if you have some conflict of legal issues you have to recruit well you would do the same as if you excuse yourself yeah but i think recuse might be the same as if you excuse yourself must have been an old word an old time illegal original word latin yeah it's more official duty you recuse yourself from and then excuse is the more layman's term you know i keep trying to add words to my vocabulary i don't know if you are you act you actively try to still i do i should i should i know that you do because you'll say well you just say words that i know you've never said well the other day i used decam i think successfully and i was so delighted because i've like heard that term and i've read it a few times and i just heard it coming out of my mouth like we need to decamp to this location oh wow yeah you were present when that means it must have come out very organically you don't even or maybe or maybe you don't even think of the word decamp i don't i don't think of that word it's a weird word and and where are we decamping well it was like someone was telling a story and i said so you had to decamp to blank oh you weren't listening maybe at that moment is also likely okay um okay so decamp is new what else is new well we were taught by an arm cherry in an interview edenic i love that word and i've i found that it's applicable pretty often to say edenic yeah i like that one you do use new words i think you use a new word today i heard oh i don't remember what it was okay but i was like that's clunky no it wasn't clunky but i was like that's new and that's gonna be sick i'm gonna start hearing this come out of his mouth a bit this is you know this is the cost of of being around each other so much the cost and the benefit like you really if i start saying a new word oh no you will know because you're used to the way if you see me once a year you might assume i use the word all the time yeah or even sparingly but not like oh that's the first time he's trying it out right um you know because you love now you love love oh here's what let's see if i know about well um we were taught it here prima facie we were taught it by steven dubner and we discussed it in the episode he said it and it was like oh wow oh i like that i'm gonna start using that and when you say i'm gonna start using that you mean it i mean it yeah yeah yeah i do love prima facie yeah it's a good word yeah i was defending myself about prima facie in my head laying in bed what do you mean well i'm like some of these words they're identical to other words that are more colloquial or more well known so then you come across as trying to be snobby or seemingly but i was like no so often these words they're just a little bit different and then i was even thinking so prima facie is on the surface so minimally it's more efficient it's just two words as opposed to three this is twisting yourself into a pretzel when you just like because and I hear criticisms from my hometown. Yeah, that's what you're hearing. That's right. And I defend myself against these criticisms from my hometown a lot of the day. Yeah. It's a big preoccupation of mine. It's funny because maybe in this very specific case, for some reason we're reversed. I don't know why, but I, because I don't care if people think I'm snobby. But I do, when I notice people using 10 cent, what is it? Yeah, 20 cent words. 20 cent words, quarter, 25 cent words or whatever. I'm always like, it doesn't make me think anything bad, but it does pull me out for a second. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I don't really do that. I don't think I use 25 cent words. I think I was heavily rewarded in my teenage years for having a big vocabulary. But me too. Because I liked older girls. Right. phone all the time with older girls just talking for hours and they would say that they like that about me yeah i like people who have strong vocabularies and i think i used i think i'm going in the opposite direction yeah you're dumbing down yeah it's healthy i think i am dumbing down yeah you're getting real that's not good that's not good i also think again i think it's genetic well how would we know because i'm i'm my mother was horny for words still is she's the only one left in my life i'll say something and she'll go oh i love that word what does that mean like she still gets peaked when she hears a new word and i certainly have it and lincoln has it tremendously she is collecting words as fast as she can so i'm inclined to think there's some genetic component like it's just it's very curious that the three of us are but what's the why have i changed because why are you sliding away from that used to maybe it's just i really really i maybe i used to do that because i wanted to sound smart and now i really don't care about that that's likely if i gave it a percentage i would say i was only really 25 motivated out of sounding smart i love i love like i just love words and i love having to say them in my mind a bunch of times before i i feel confident enough to say them out loud i don't know why i just i think there's a genuine love i don't do any flash cards did i get you some for your birthday stack of flash cards i did i was the last time i was home i saw these old sat flash cards they made me laugh it brought me back to a time you had saved them oh i saved everything you saved every damn thing why not you should see my parents basement it is horrifying well i've been on many a zoom call with you in that time you should see my parents basement it is horrifying well i've been on many a zoom call with you in that time basement and i've seen this basement and i've seen this basement and i've seen this the stack the shelves of your belongings the stack the shelves of your belongings the stack the shelves of your belongings those no those are my mom's pots and pans those no those are my mom's pots and pans those no those are my mom's pots and pans her extra pots and pans her extra pots and pans her extra pots and pans her second location that she will never ever her second location that she will never ever her second location that she will never ever pull out no she uses she goes she uses pull out no she uses she goes she uses pull out no she uses she goes she uses them all the time she doesn't have them all the time she doesn't have them all the time she doesn't have space in the kitchen oh okay so she space in the kitchen oh okay so she space in the kitchen oh okay so she a full disaster i think it was my brother a full disaster i think it was my brother a full disaster i think it was my brother or in all the collections looking for or in all the collections looking for or in all the collections looking for something yeah okay but you'll find something yeah okay but you'll find something yeah okay but you'll find really fun treats in there really fun treats in there really fun treats in there yeah old beanie baby well yeah remember i yeah old beanie baby well yeah remember i yeah old beanie baby well yeah remember i found valentino found valentino found valentino yeah it's fun to go look through your yeah it's fun to go look through your yeah it's fun to go look through your youth i am so excited this is the most youth i am so excited this is the most youth i am so excited this is the most excited i've been in a while i'm like excited i've been in a while i'm like excited i've been in a while i'm like counting down the minutes counting down the minutes counting down the minutes so you're because i'm meeting tyrell so you're because i'm meeting tyrell so you're because i'm meeting tyrell and weekly yes and weekly yes and weekly yes in just days in las vegas in just days in las vegas in just days in las vegas i am so excited like it's my first time i am so excited like it's my first time i am so excited like it's my first time going to las vegas that's fun going to las vegas that's fun going to las vegas that's fun what do you think about me wearing what do you think about me wearing what do you think about me wearing shorts to a metallica concert i'm like shorts to a metallica concert i'm like shorts to a metallica concert i'm like struggling with this for some reason struggling with this for some reason struggling with this for some reason what kind it's too hot right and what kind it's too hot right and what kind it's too hot right and there'll be a lot of walking i think there'll be a lot of walking i think there'll be a lot of walking i think it's fine to wear shorts to a concert it's fine to wear shorts to a concert it's fine to wear shorts to a concert it's at the sphere right yeah it's at the sphere right yeah it's at the sphere right yeah i think so yeah i don't know why i am i think so yeah i don't know why i am i think so yeah i don't know why i am questioning yeah questioning yeah questioning yeah that's what they said well they say that's what they said well they say that's what they said well they say everything everything everything stays there i don't know about stays there i don't know about stays there i don't know about everything goes everything goes everything goes but can you um what kind of shorts are but can you um what kind of shorts are but can you um what kind of shorts are jean shorts the ones i wear every day jean shorts the ones i wear every day jean shorts the ones i wear every day you see me and i might have three you see me and i might have three you see me and i might have three different pair of marine layer dressy different pair of marine layer dressy different pair of marine layer dressy pants that i've cut off pants that i've cut off pants that i've cut off shorts are totally shorts are totally shorts are totally shorts are totally fine for metallica okay all right and fine for metallica okay all right and fine for metallica okay all right and what about the steakhouse beforehand what about the steakhouse beforehand what about the steakhouse beforehand that might be more questionable okay that might be more questionable okay that might be more questionable okay maybe i'll buy a pair of disposable maybe i'll buy a pair of disposable maybe i'll buy a pair of disposable pants where why don't you look on the pants where why don't you look on the pants where why don't you look on the website it'll say if there's a dress website it'll say if there's a dress website it'll say if there's a dress code code code you could probably call them too give you could probably call them too give you could probably call them too give them a shout i think it's easier to to just look on the website, but. I don't know. Where are they going to bury that info? I feel like it might be six, seven clicks away. If there's a dress code, it would definitely be on the website. Okay. But they do have to expect people are like, it's a hundred. They're coming off of, I guess, a golf course. People go to steakhouses after a golf course. Like, yeah, I think in Vegas. I'm overthinking it. I think it's fine. Shirtless? No. Okay. That's absolutely not. Draw the line there. Maybe at the concert, though. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder what the age range will be at the concert. Yeah, I do, too. I'm presuming a bunch of old guys like Aaron and Aaron and I, but you never know. Like, now the Smiths, their huge fan base is young Latinas. The Smiths? Yes. Really? In California, there's this huge subculture of Latinas and Latinos that are super into the Smiths. Cool. But what I'm aware of is how different now. Like, when I was a kid, Metallica came to Pine Knob in Detroit with the concert. Aaron went. We had a friend whose older sister took those two. And I was, like, so jealous that I didn't get to go. But also, I was so scared to go to that concert, as was Aaron. And we were just talking about it the other day. He went. And, yeah, there was, like, 20 or 30 fights he saw. And it's a bunch of aggressive dudes with long hair and drunk. And so, it's just funny now. Like, I'm going to see Metallica at the Sphere, and I think, oh, it's going to be a quite lovely evening with a bunch of normal people because we've all aged out of it. Yeah, true. With that craziness. It's wild how differently I feel about this concert and previous ones. Are you going to buy a T-shirt? No. Do they sell them? There's nothing in life I want other than the safety of my children that's worth me standing in an hour-long line. In fact, you know I did when I went to Sabrina Carpenter. I stood in a half-hour line, but for Delta. I know, but it's, like, it is for them because one day that will be a vintage shirt. Sure. And it might, even for their kids, like, that's a good shirt to have. I mean, I'll also be with Aaron and Erin. They're going to have a vote in whether or not we stay in line. But I also might just say, like, hey, see you at the seats. Yeah. You know? See you at the seats. I'm going to go get some vintage shirts. That's my new saying. That's my new motto. Okay. I'm just wondering if you get in line if I want you to get me one, too. Oh, wow. Okay, so this was ultimately maybe about. I'm just thinking about the vintage shirt. I can't imagine I cannot get the shirt that's for sale there on the Internet. That feels impossible. No, sometimes they have ones you can only get there. And you can ask, which ones can I only get here? Yeah. They have some very famous shirts, Metallica. See? Do you know about Metal Up Your Ass? Oh. Okay, well, there's a song, Metal Up Your Ass, very early on. Okay. And the iconography on the shirt was a toilet bowl with a sword. There's a sword coming out of it. Okay. Yeah. That's pretty extreme. That is. Yeah. Metal Up Your Ass. I mean. Better than Snakes Up Your Ass, right? Yeah. And it's a ding, ding, ding to Armchair Anonymous for an objects prompt. Right. People have metal up there. They do. Yeah. And it gets stuck. Yeah. This is remind. Oh. There it is. Wow. That's the T. Did you get that T? That's probably worth $30. $30? I don't know. I'm just throwing it out there. You can get it for $16. $16 on eBay right now. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Aaron had that shirt. As you can imagine, the vice principal of our school did not appreciate anyone wearing that shirt to school. Wait. You said 16? Yeah. Oh, no. I mean, it looks like a remake, though. So. Oh, it's a fake out. Yeah. It doesn't even look. There's one on Etsy for $300 that looks authentic. Okay. That's what I'm talking about. That might be in a ridge? Yeah. That would be in a ridge. Okay. Nice and thin. Cheese floppy. Oh, I hope it's thin. I love T's. You love them thin? I love T's. I love thin T's. I love vintage T's. You love LeBear T's. I do. Yeah. What do you think about I healed up shockingly fast? No, yesterday I was in absolute mass. Oh, this is going to be confusing shit. Okay. Because the episode comes out on Monday? This episode comes out on Monday, but Wednesday's episode we did yesterday. I'll just tell people. Wednesday's fact check we did yesterday. Oh, so this will be a reverse. This will be a reverse. This is a reverse back. Oh. So on Wednesday, you'll see Dax's face is all scarred up. Tremendously so. To be fair, you are right that within 24 hours. I was almost excited for today's episode. I was assuming I would have as many scabs all over my forehead and cheeks and nose. To see if our guest today would say anything because I really wanted to be able to use my whole metal grinder thing. Yeah, which they don't know about yet. Yeah. They don't know. They don't know about yet. All right. Anyways, but then I woke up this morning and to my dismay, not a new word, I saw that I had very little scabbage left. Yeah, you in 24 hours, you really shed a lot of those scabs. I think that's a testament to how good I am at the Hifer Cater 2000. I don't think that's it, but I. I asked, it's rare that I request a Christmas present. Come Christmas. I'm like, I don't know. Just forget about me. Okay. But I did request that Kristen make me. A high fricator 2000 t-shirt. I want high fricator 2000 written and then I want an image of the device. Okay. Kind of like that Metallica shirt. Yes. Metal. Kind of like metal up your ass. So yeah, that's that request has been made. Okay. That sounds nice. Yeah. Because I got new air conditioners that are finally the right size for my house. You're still dealing with that itchy ear. Have you tried putting any hydro, hydro, hydro cortisone in your ear? No. Why not? Do you think that's good? Of course. - Do you think it might be bad for my hearing? that's what i'm putting on you're not gonna put it on your eardrum i need to go deep okay well let's start like midway or maybe i feel crazy with this ear thing yeah you need to definitely put some hydrocortisone okay yeah it's making me like i even have the perfect thing swab no i have an ointment that was given to me specifically for this oh really okay maybe yeah i'll give that a shot because i i feel for bug infestation i'm ready to just spray some raid right in there you can spray it on a q-tip and then yeah yeah well people haven't heard yet people haven't no we've heard that but people haven't heard yet that what i learned is that itchy ear canals also horrible phrase itchy ear canals also sounds like a band um yeah itchy ear canals are a sign of perimenopause and so i hate that reality mixed with this is like i wake up in the night and i have to itch that's rough we got to put some hydrocortisone in there okay and i just can't give a couple zaps just for good measure get the hyphrocator in there zap zap zap once you have scabs in there that'll distract you from the itching yeah probably a lot of people want me to tell you that the guy you're upset with betraying his friend who i think is hot yeah rob r rob r that he bought her a birkin bag i do know this people really wanted me to let you know and that's just a testament to his hotness like people are defending him oh they're saying like it's actually fine yeah like remember when we had on this was a fun thing to observe when we had on scott eastwood and he told a story about working with shia labouf uh-huh that he didn't love beef that he didn't like the amount of people that were outraged someone had anything negative to say about shia um was was noticeable wait wait wait when we had scott eastwood on people were upset because the clip had to do with this dust up he had with shia on the tank movie uh-huh and people were coming out in droves to defend shia and mad at scott as if he was reporting like his opinion he's just reporting these facts of what happened a story he was involved yes right and so when i saw this like really passionate thing i was like Oh, man, the power of having a crush on someone is so strong. Yeah. You know, because I adore Shia as an actor. I think he is unbelievably talented. Yeah, he is. I also deeply admire his level of honesty I've seen him have in public. Also, he's beating up guys and saying he's a homophobe and has hit his girlfriend. So it's like very interesting to see these women come out in such droves to defend him. I think he's an incredible actor. I think if you're hitting women to like that, that is a problem. Or not like that, obviously, but in some ways you are. You're endorsing a person that does that. Yeah. I'm drawing the line there. Yeah, but it was a real unabashed. So this thing with Rob mirrored that. It was so important people knew, no, he is a good guy. And that's just the power of being cute. That was my whole point of that whole story is like, wow, what a handsome white man can get away with is that everyone in this entire house just thinks he's perfect and good and nice. And I'm sure he's nice, by the way. But like that he could never be a traitor because he's hot. He's enjoyable to look at. Yeah, that is upsetting. I did know that he got Maura a Birkin bag and or said that help. Reliviate your anger towards him. I mean, I'm glad he did that. Yeah, that's nice. How much did he win on this show? I think you win like two hundred and fifty thousand. And then how much is a Birkin bag cost range? I hope she I hope he got her a nice. I hope he got her a thirty thousand dollar one. So they can be thirty grand. Sixteen thousand dollars apparently was the bag when he got her. Yeah. But anyone two hundred and twenty thousand eight hundred dollars. OK, so of that, he got one ten. Maybe he bought her a sixteen thousand bag. He gave her basically 15 percent of his wedding. No, that doesn't matter. To me, it's not about that. That's see, that's the thing. They're trying to be like, no, but he got her a Birkin bag. So it's fine. It's not fine to pinky promise her and and humiliate her. I mean, that's really it is. That's where you're. It's you. That's where you're projecting a little bit. No, she said she said. Like, I it was really hard to watch. I really kind of couldn't watch it. Projecting is not the right word. You were easily able to imagine yourself being made a fool. Oh, I could empathize. Of course, I was like, and that doesn't get fixed by a bird. So, like, that doesn't even bother me because I can't even imagine being made a fool by him. You know, well, he could. Yeah, of course he could do that. You might believe him. Well, his superpowers wouldn't be powerful. I mean, they were. They were powerful. Powerful on every person. That's why I don't trust anyone. Good looking. Well, you would have trusted Rob Bar. I don't know how he did that, but every person trusted him. It is funny, though, to have people mad at you for entering a game, which we already know what the goal game is. And then he did well and won and to be mad at a winner is counter. I don't think you should have pinky promised. Oh, now you like him. No. Okay. First of all, I mean, look, I like Rob Bar because he's hot. Yeah. He is. He's seemingly nice, and I like that he got her the Birkin. But look at look, she's wearing a T-shirt that says, I'm dumb question mark, because I guess it's like, I'm dumb, but I'm not because I got this Birkin out of it. I'm dumb. Like, you think I'm dumb? Yeah. I'm holding the Birkin back. Yeah. I don't know what her intention is with that shirt. I think that's what it is. But really, then it's like, this is upsetting. See, she lives with this, like, now she lives with this contention that she's dumb. But you don't think she's dumb, do you? You just think she trusted a handsome man. So maybe everyone thinks that. See, okay, this is a deep, right? Everyone trusted Rob R. because I don't know why I wasn't there. Part of it, I do believe, is his handsomeness mixed with his kindness. I think he was kind to everyone. And I think he, and he said this, and I, this is not his fault. This is everyone else's fault. But he said, people just think I'm a dumb. Guy from Alabama. Right. And then another guy was like, I don't think that. I think you're really not. Whatever. That was a sweet exchange. But I do think some people might think that. They might think like, well, he wouldn't really be able to get one over on us. Yes. So that's on everybody else. They deserve that. They do deserve that if they believe that. But Maura and Rob R. had a special connection. And very flirty. Were they fucking, do you think? So they say no. Okay. They say no. They say no. And I can't. And you gotta take it. I gotta take it at face value, but. But you felt like maybe they were fucking. I feel like they had an intimacy. Ooh. Whether or not it was fucking, they definitely did have an intimacy. She felt like she had this special, I guess I am putting words in her mouth a little bit. Yeah. But not really. She says on the show, like, Rob and I, you know, they're. They're best friends who might fuck. Right. And kiss and cuddle. Hold each other, yeah. And snuggle. And stare into each other's eyes. Yeah. And like, you can tell she felt like. Safe. No, I know him. And she would say like, there's no way. I would know. I was sleeping with him last night. I know him. And that's, no. That's bad. What I'm saying is she's also got to acknowledge she's in a game. She probably thinks the fucking part is not connected. That he's. That he's not. That if he. Well, I don't think he. I think he would love to fuck her whether he's in a game or not. Yeah, but he needs to be. That's not nice. If you are a traitor. Yeah. That's not nice. Well, what's not nice is intentionally fucking her to gain her trust to win a game. Not good. But you're trying to win a game. That's one thing. Another thing is you're attracted to this woman in the house and you guys start hooking up. Yeah, you can't. You have to be. You have to not do that. Kind enough to be. You have to be aware of what that means for the other person. That that in intimacy. Whether it's not compartmentalized, maybe it is for these him hot men. Okay. Maybe they can compartmentalize like, oh, this part is just like, I'm trying to win the game. She's trying to win the game. We're all trying to win the game. And we're sleeping together. No. No, you don't think that's nice. Oh, that's not nice. It's not nice. So would it be nicer if she was like, please sleep with me? He's like, no, she, no. Let's just say, you think that's nice. If a girl says, please sleep with me. I think, no, no, thank you. I'm not interested. Stop. That's not what he would say. What would he say? He would say, I don't think it's ethical for me to do that in this game. Oh, cause. Oh, so you're the wolf. Huh? So the only reason it wouldn't be ethical is if you weren't. You know. You'd be exposing the fact that he's the wolf. No, we're here for two weeks. I don't know. You don't know me. I don't know you. I, this is. But it could only be unethical if you were the traitor. No, it could just be like. Because if you're just both, what are the other people called? Losers? Traitor and what? No, traitors and. Faithfuls. Thank you, faithfuls. Two faithfuls should be free to fuck, right? Yeah. Yeah, so if he says no, he's kind of blowing up his spot. But he doesn't have to. He could just be like, I have a girlfriend. Just lie. He's lying throughout this entire game. Of course it's preferred. If you're the girl and you've just had sex. Okay, again, I don't know if they've had sex. Yeah, they probably haven't. So we really haven't. But really quick, what if you found out that she's glad they had sex? Would that change things for you? That she doesn't feel betrayed by that aspect of it. Then sure. Yeah, then all groovy, right? But that's also part of why the bottom fell out so hard for her. Where she was like, could not. She's sleeping with the enemy. She doesn't know if she can trust herself anymore. Right. This is a very upsetting thing for her, Maura. Yeah. She's now on Dancing with the Stars. Maybe, hold on. I don't, I say this without ever having seen one frame of the show. So I, this is a theoretical question. I don't know her at all. Neither. But if she's learned she can't trust herself, that's a good thing to learn. Like, I need to be a little more savvy. No. No. Because someone manipulated her? She can't trust herself? That's not fair. Like, he manipulated her. He manipulated everyone. He manipulated everyone, which is fine, right? That's the game. That's the game. Okay. But with her specifically, because of this intimacy that was built, that is a step too far, I believe. Okay. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. Armchair Expert. Yeah, this is a common, I'm going to leave it. I'm going to leave it. I want you to imagine it as Delta. Yeah. As a father of two daughters, I would say, just like you have to evaluate whether the person you're about to get in a car with an Uber is crazy or not, you have to evaluate people. That's part of life. You have to be realistic about people. And if not, if you're wanting the world to change and the world to be, everyone's got perfect intentions, I'm here to say that's not going to happen. Yeah. So your only choice in life is to be discerning. You have to be discerning. I had to be discerning about the people I dated and women have to be discerning about who they date. That's also true. I don't think you can say that you're powerless over the ways of manipulation. I think that's like, then what are you also going to give your credit card number to somebody that's trustworthy? Like there's all these areas and realms where we all realize we have to be discerning. And I think in love, you have to be discerning too. Yeah. And you can expect that people who you grow to care about or have intimacy with or tell you they care about you, that you should, you can believe them. You shouldn't, you should not have your guard up for your entire life. That's bad. I think you have to have a re a reasonable size fence, not to the sky, but it has to be realistic. You know, I had a friend. I had a friend who met a guy who was on a TV show, who was gorgeous and rich and young. And within a week of dating, he was saying he wanted to have a baby with her. And I said that, Hey, I'm waving my hand over here. That's crazy. And not normal. That's not how it works. Um, you may have found the one person that's how it's going to work, but like, I'm here to say that's crazy. No guy in that situation is trying to have a baby with somebody he's known for two weeks. And that person did not want to hear that at all. Okay. And then that person was later revealed to be like an addict and all this stuff. There was a lot of other stuff going on, but my point is, no, it was on her to be realistic about that. No, no, it's on him to not lie to her. Well, yes, absolutely. Well, first of all, I don't even think he was lying. He was an addict thinking this, this life raft had just appeared and he was going to pull that. He was going to pull that to save him from this opiate addiction. So I think he might've been dead sincere at that moment that he thought this is the solution. Uh, this is my way out of this and my way forward in life, but. Well, I know who you're talking about. And also this person was very vulnerable to hearing that this, this person who, yes, what I'm saying, here's, here's, here's my overall thought is like, is the lesson to be learned from that, that she shouldn't be more realistic about things going forward and that she should just hope that no other, she doesn't mean another person who's trying to pull themselves out of something like ultimately it's, it's on her to choose her partners. It is, but you also have to take what people are saying in, you can't evaluate it. You can't just be like in a vacuum, in a relationship, a part of it is what's going on between people. to assess if someone is, has love addicty behavior. That's not, you have to, unless you want to be in an endless cycle of falling in love with people who are just love addicts. I know, but, but you're not giving any responsibility to the love addict who's causing wreckage. No, I am. Okay. I just want to hear that part. Any guy who's telling a woman that he loves her and he doesn't love her so that he can have sex is a piece of shit. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Yes. But I'm not raising those boys. I have two daughters and it would be my goal and my desire that they are realistic about assessing behavior. Like, well, this is very unconventional that a dude wants to get married in a week, that a dude's telling me he loves me in two weeks. You might be swept up in the emotions, but you do have to go like, well, this is abnormal. Someone's saying, I love you in two weeks. That's a very short amount of time to determine whether you love. So like, but also some people do that and they get married and they're in love for the rest. I think it's a very low percentage. Yes. Yes. But it happens. So to be like, I don't know. I don't know. It's, it's what I'm saying is one sounds very victim me and that you're just going to endlessly be a victim. If you're not willing to say, no, I got to get realistic about the real behavior of people. And I can see this dude's never been with someone for more than a year. Let's take immediately. Let's take that into account. You're 30 years old. You're meeting a guy who's telling you he loves you in two weeks. He's never been with you in two weeks. He's never been with someone for more than a year. That is relevant information that you are either choosing to ignore or not savvy enough. But once it happens once, I think anyone who wants to protect themselves should go like, oh, I got to be on the lookout for this pattern. I'm meeting a four-year-old dude who's never had a relationship for more than two years. And he's telling me he loves me in 10 days. Pretty big red flags. Sure. You can be aware of abnormalities and like you can have, you can have awareness, but I don't, I don't think when someone lies to you, it's not your fault. It's not your fault when someone lies to you. It's just not. It's not your fault. It's your responsibility. It's just like addiction. It's like, it's not my fault. I'm an addict. It is my responsibility. So it's like, it's not your fault that guys are out there trying to lie to you. It's your responsibility, I guess, moving forward. If you don't want to be heard all the time. To be aware, but it is not. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, Rob R. Okay. Some facts for another hot person, James McAvoy. Oh yes. Yes. James McAvoy. As I said in the episode, he's Callie's first, not maybe not first, but, but biggest, deepest celebrity crush. Mr. Tumnus is the fawn specifically. Mr. Tumnus is the fawn. Yeah. And will you ask her right now if in her fantasies about him at that time, she would be hooking up with an animal? I don't think comfortable with me asking that. And I think the answer is no. Maybe can I ask her? Um, she should probably even less. So this is a question for, from Dax. Like, did you want in your fantasy him to be half animal, half person or all James McAvoy? I think she wanted all James McAvoy. Can we ask her? She's going to be mad. She's pretty private. I'm asking. She's at work. Oh, wow. In the middle of an important meeting. She's running out. She knew it was coming. I'll get back to you on this. Okay. Great. But I have a strong, I'm sure I asked back then. Cause I was very, the story, Hera and I were at the movie theater. We left, she was just kerfuffled, you know, she was kerplumped. What's it? Um, verklempt. Okay. Yeah. Verklempt. She's a lot of those things, you know? And she, she was obsessed with Mr. Tumnus. It makes me quickly go through my memory and, and try to see if there was any moment I wanted to have sex with a half human, a creature. I've never had that. I did desperately. I would have loved to have had sex with the, the Navi. Oh, you did want to? Absolutely. Um, right. I can't connect my tail with theirs. Right. They were, they were on two feet though, right? Yeah. Yeah. They were bipedal. Yeah. So, but they were big blue creatures, but that feels, they feel more human. I would have loved to have. I think a lot of people wanted that because like Zoe Saldana is so beautiful. It's not her. It's just her voice. But the haunches of the creature were just extraordinary. And then the face was pretty. It was definitely not human, but it was beautiful. But it kind of had a human-like face. So athletic. What was it? Avatar. Well, there's her, right? So that's not a human for sure. You're making no mistake. Those ears popping out at the way at the top. The ears, but the lips are human. Yeah, the lips are good to go. The eyes are incredible. The nose is kind of human. It looks like a lion's. Yeah, but someone's nose could look like that. Yeah, they might get it fixed, but yeah. No, I think this is a beautiful human. Well, it's not human. It's a knobby. I know, but I'm just saying, I think this is way more human. Yeah, I would love to make love to her. Yeah, we get it. Do you have a full body shot, Rob? Oh, Jesus. Yeah, I mean, that's also a human body. Well, they're way big, though. Remember when the humans are actually with them? They're so much bigger. This is not the same. My name is Mr. Tumnus. I'm sorry, but can you pull up Mr. Tumnus? Okay. That's a silly name, too, Mr. Tumnus. I know, the whole thing. I was so confused, which I grew to respect. You know, I grew to respect her love for Mr. Tumnus, but at first I was judgmental. Yeah, first stop is sometimes judgment. Yeah. And then intrigue. And then, yeah, at some point I saw him in something else. You get curious. That's what they say. I say that's the antidote to judgment is curiosity. Yeah. Once you start going like, oh, well, tell me why. What is it? Is it his haunches? Well, it's like I do think it's giving furry or, you know, like you're into animal sex, and I don't— Condone that. Oh, he actually is on two feet, too. He's pan. Yeah, he's fine. He's goat-like. In my head, he had four legs. Ugh, God. Okay. Oh, wow. She won. She won it. Good for her. He's got crazy ears, too. He does. And a crazy nose. He's wearing prosthetics. This is what—this is not how I remember Mr. Tumnus. Wow. Wow. Are you sure that's Mr. Tumnus? Oh, my—oh. Oh, yeah. It was more this. It was more this, which still, though, but you can see more of his body. This is making sense. The human skin, yeah. You can see his human skin and human torso. I think now that I've seen an image of Mr. Tumnus, I'm like, oh, my God. Mr. Tumnus, I don't need to ask her the question. I already know the answer. Because he is all lower half. I mean, he's leading with— No. Like, I think she liked this. I do. I think she liked that part. Okay. So it's clear to you and it's clear to me. I know her! You do. I know you do. Okay. I know what she likes. She likes human bodies. You're only basing that on her past lovers. She hasn't had as an option half a goat. No, because you know what I'm actually— She wanted to feel the goat fur on her legs as he was, like, pumping away like only a goat can do. God, this is why she doesn't want me to talk about her on the show. Okay. But I can actually now, if I'm taking just the torso— Mm-hmm. You're in? I like it. What about the legs? I don't like the legs. Okay. Okay? All right. You lose me at the legs. Okay. You got to wonder if that creature has a human penis or— Or a goat penis. You got to wonder, yeah. I think it's a very obvious question. I think it's a goat. Because if the bottom half is goat— Yeah, everything from the waist down is goat. But then why only two legs? They should have made him on four legs. I think Pan was on two. I think he was bipedal. Who's Pan? Pan is the Greek god of, like, well, music. He played the flute. Oh, Pan. But merriment and temptation. He's very sexual. A siren towards the debauchery. Yeah, so he's— That's how he's— Oh, no, I see he's got four in back, too. He's got two prominent ones up front. He's crossed his legs. But in back, I'm seeing two little tiny legs that snuck in there. Leaning against the rock. I don't think those are— Are those legs? Yeah, look at the hooves. They match perfectly. That looks like a scarf on his— It does. They're so tiny and disproportionate that they might dangle behind him when he's bipedal. Wait, I thought— Oh, there he is. He doesn't have four. He's just got the two. I thought Pan was god. God of the woods. He was in the woods. Okay, I think because there's a book I was really into called God of the Woods. But I think he would play his flute and people would get really horny. It was like a hypnotic flute. That was his power. He'd start tooting on that thing and people would be like, let's do stuff with goats. He was the god of shepherds and flocks. Wild nature. Especially of mountain and forest wilds. So I think also, yeah, god of the woods. I think he's like appealing to man's naturalistic animalistic. Well, and the word panic comes from that. It does. I learned that in my book. Okay. Great goats of the 18th century. He's standing upright though. He's bipedal. Okay. Wow. In Harry Potter, the centaurs are on four. So I think that's what's in my head. Yeah, I'm conflating. Okay. Let's give Rob a shout out for doing these facts real time. Yes, Rob did the facts real time. We just finished this interview. We just left seconds ago. Rob took on the facts today. Empire Awards for Filth. When he met Margot Robbie, it says in 2014, James won Best Actor for Filth. Defeating Leonardo DiCaprio for Wolf of Wall Street and Tom Hanks, Captain Philip. He wasn't sure what movie he was there for. It was Filth. Yes. Can you imagine having won so many awards you can't remember? Do you automatically get the suffix junior added to your name if your parent has the same name? No. Oh. Junior suffix is not added automatically to a name. It must be required. It's requested and recorded explicitly on the birth certificate. Oh, okay. That kind of makes sense. Yeah, I don't think my brother doesn't have that. Right. My brother is a junior. Right. And people did call Dave senior and Dave junior. Right. But it wasn't. But I don't think it's anywhere in writing. Do you think that's gone out of fad? Yeah. Like men love to name their firstborns their own name. I would have never allowed if we had a boy for him to be named Dax. Yeah. But I would have been open to a girl name. Dax. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, women never pass on there. There's no girl junior. You're going to lose your last name anyways. Even more reason to have the first name get passed. That's why we gave the girls Bell as a middle name. They can't ever lose it. Right. But it's like, I'm saying no one's like Kristen. You're not having a kid Kristen. Right. Which is weird. Yeah. There's no girl juniors that I know about. I'm going to make one. Monica Lily Padman. Okay. It feels egomaniacal, doesn't it? It does. That's what I'm saying. Like, like cultures changed. It does. But no one thinks that. I don't think people think that about boys. I don't think like, oh, it's egomaniacal to name you after your dad. I think today it would be like in LA. I think it'd be a bad look for a dad if he had a junior a little bit, but in the past, not, you won't even think anything of it. It's almost standard. I don't know. Did James play the Jeremy Allen White character in Shameless? No. James played Steve McBride in the original. The original UK's Shameless. Fiona's boyfriend, his American counterpart is Jimmy Lishman, played by Justin Chatwin. Love Justin. He was in Chips. He's a phenomenal guy. Oh, Justin. Yeah, he's gorgeous. Oh, yeah. He's super into motorcycles. In fact, I think he has a book out right now about motorcycles. Everyone should buy it. I saw it on Instagram. That's cool. Yeah, I adore him. He'd probably do great on Traders. Yeah. Yeah, he's gorgeous. And he's an incredible actor. Yeah. He played a junkie, the junkie son of Vincent. And D'Onofrio in Chips. And he was better than the movie. Was he in a scene with me? Did he pull me out of that car? Yeah, but I don't know that it was him. It was a stunt double, I think. He couldn't make it that day. Well, he's a busy guy. He's doing me a very large favor by doing the small role he did. Song in The Last King of Scotland and Hit and Run, Fever by Jingo. That's right. I did know the name of that, Fever. Had Jennifer Lawrence already won an Oscar before X-Men? She was nominated for Winter's Bone. But did not win that. Oh, that year, Natalie Portman won for Black Swan. Rightly so. Great, great movie. What a performance. And Mila was so incredible in that movie. Yeah, she was. Also nominated, I believe. I hope. Yeah, she got Best Supporting Actress. Nice. Nice. Nomination. You know they call it a nom and a nod? Yeah. Pick your pick. Pick your poison. It's kind of like recuse, excuse. Pick your poison. That's it. That's everything. Yeah. Okay. Well, I just, again, I said it in the interview, but what a fun full circle for me. Yeah, me too, Mr. Tumnus. Yeah, we each have. We all come in with some history with his 30-year career. Yeah. He's a great actor. He sure is. Check out his stuff. Give him a look. All right. Love you. Love you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thank you.