are we have great news my regular co-host isn't here and so sitting in for him is a prolific
filmmaker a sentence you don't normally hear on this show um but we're super stoked to have him
so give it up real big for james gunn everybody oh listen those claps oh i'm excited i don't think
i can't feel virtues you should you should hear their normal claps it's usually like really like
yeah it's really sad that was genuine yeah they're big fans wow that's cool everybody here's a big
fan i'm a big fan of yours well thank you well no i've contacted you on twitter yes how great you
are one of the or one of those things i don't know you're very kind um just to reiterate to
everybody peacemaker is on hbo or max or max hbo whatever fucking name they've chosen this week
it is it's airing thursdays uh at nine wait it comes
out at a certain time it comes out at nine o'clock okay watch it at nine o'clock that's like um old
school like when they give you a time it is it is i mean obviously you can still watch it at 9 15
yeah nine you know 20 but at nine is when it it drops okay it drops at nine it's in its second
season i gotta say dude i was um first of all there's so many goddamn shows now like you know
when we were growing up they're like there's four shows yeah like you just could just kind of go
through shows yeah you knew every movie because there was like a
campaign for a movie and like you know to catch up on things it's kind of mind-blowing
it is a really fucking fun watch like peacemaker is really fun i was actually i gotta say i was
kind of blown away at um not just like what a fun ride it is but like watching cena he's he's
so good he's so good yeah no in this season i mean so we did the first you know you know going
way back the reason i wanted to do peacemaker was because of my
relationship with john working with him on the suicide squad yeah and i saw something in him
that was so i knew he was a good actor and we did the first season of peacemaker and we worked on
that a lot and since then he's gone off and he's acted you know in more things between the two
seasons of peacemaker than he had before that and the change in him from season one to season two
and what he's capable of has been an incredible thing to watch so it's notable to you like as as
the yeah
oh yeah it's it's completely notable to me he's you know really gone to a place where i mean there's
a scene in episode one of this season where i'm like you know he's meeting his brother from another
dimension who's dead in our dimension and yeah you know he walks out of the room and i say i think
you break down crying you know john i said don't worry about really crying just like you know put
your head in your hands and like you know heave um and immediately he just the guy walks out david
and john just has these tears spill down his face and i'm like what is going on this is not the same
guy who i worked with four years ago on the first season who was like had the scene where he was
supposed to be crying in bed and he was terrified to do it because he'd never done anything like
that in his life um he's just he's much more comfortable in his own skin yeah that's really
cool to watch yeah to see someone evolve and kind of like get better at their craft basically how
do you i mean you so you're acting now i'm acting now yes and how do you like that how do you like
the well kind of like i i know that you moved to la when you like when you first this was to
pursue music right no i didn't you want to no i moved no i to pursue music i made the really wise
choice of moving to tucson arizona oh that's the music haven yeah the mecca the mecca of uh of uh
you know early alternative rock um no i i lived all over the place but i moved to la in 98 and i
was i was already a screenwriter by the time
well when i moved i moved to la in 2002 yeah with the soul like the sole purpose was just to pursue
acting and comedy acting right like like i wanted to do comedy you weren't doing stand-up i wasn't
doing stand-up okay i had no like it wasn't even on the radar yeah and when i moved there
i i i was like what should i do you know like how do i do this and i knew i discovered that a lot of
these comedy actors were they went through the groundlings yeah so i was like that's what i'll do
i'll just go to the groundlings yeah so i went there i'm in their school i'm doing the the levels
and a couple people in my class were like you should try stand-up you would like stand-up and
i was like i don't know what to do yeah and i kind of followed them doing spots and then stand-up
just became something that i fell in love with meanwhile you try to keep like for me it was
harder to keep like the the the burner on here and do like i was like i kind of have feel like i have
to be all in on stand-up right so you know every time once in a while i'm like i'm gonna do this
i would book something yeah commercial or like five lines on this but i was clearly on the stand-up
path yeah but you kind of like it never fades you're like i really wanted to do this oh that's
amazing so like then i did my series and i just did a feature this summer that we just wrapped
and now we're going into season two so now what's the feature the feature is uh it's a script it's
called el tigre okay which uh that was the name of my grandmother's cat oh really el tigre yes
it's a great that was the first cat i ever met that's a great one nothing
to do with me so i play um a mexican cartel leader named el tigre and i also play an american
named jeff who's his doppelganger and so when jeff goes on vacation with friends the real el tigre
gets assassinated and then they people find jeff and they're like oh you're el tigre and
so he's in this like world but the great thing was we assembled this incredible cast
and the movie is played like very grounded yeah i love that i love that it's very fun i mean that's
peacemaker too really i mean it really is about like it's a superhero show but it's not really a
superhero show it's about human beings and a couple of them happen to sometimes put on costumes
right um and it's it's something that's treated you know as if that's all completely real um
you know of course with comedy and some outlandish characters for sure it's it's all grounded the
way we acted is grounded the performances yeah and it's like it's great characters and you know
like as an actor in this i got to do a full range of things i got to be like a super violent guy
i got to break down crying i got to have like fun like i get to be the reactor in certain moments
and then you get to be like the person bringing the comedy so it was the most fun i've ever had
that's what i mean i love that aesthetic of an outlandish concept like that yes or like
peacemaker going to another dimension where
there's another version of himself but played as if it's you know as if we were experiencing this
that's what makes the funny part funny though yeah and some totally some you know execs and uh
producers don't get that yeah and they're like what if you were juggling in the scene and you're
like what the fuck are you talking about yeah like they're like they're like you know something
funny you're like no it's funny that we're playing it like it's real yeah but i love how
those aesthetics have sort of caught up with culture because if you remember like way back
you know i remember when freaks and geeks yeah sure when it came out on the air and i saw this
show it was like i just happened to watch it like on it's the first time it was on tv i have no clue
what year that was i guess late 90s yeah late 90s and i just happened and i'm like holy crap this is
like so grounded and well done and and truly funny not in a forced way but just funny funny
and about real kids and shot like a real you know show yeah paul feig was shooting it and um
and and of course nobody watched it and it lasted for you know not so many episodes and
everything was so broad back then yes and little by little with you know with that you know and
then the office and you know of course you know sopranos and shield and all those shows coming out
on tv the the aesthetics of what people want have changed and have gotten closer to what i liked
you know when i was younger and was starving for and never really had enough of do you think we'll
have a like because
everything kind of feels in entertainment and movies like pretty cyclical you know like things
kind of go in this path but like comedies like studio comedies have become feels like they're
just there's not really that many of them i mean that's the big question i mean people are kind of
like in the industry as like a studio head people are always talking about you know you can you know
obviously some types of movies are harder cells right yeah dramas they're harder cells because
you can do them on
tv and people can watch them at home with their family and they'll have you know everything has
for me everything should be you know could be a theatrical experience is going to be better
but you lose less from a drama than you do from say a horror movie yeah where the audience is
screaming or from a spectacle film where it's like so big and like knocked up did i screw up
your mic here or like um you know or for me a comedy yeah but the but comedies have sort of not
been as much as they used to be and i think that's the thing that's the thing that's the thing that's
you know the box office there hasn't really been hit comedies and that to me seems like the best
type of that's the movie i mean i remember going to see like the hangover in the theater which is
just surrounded by people i didn't know and you know you walk out of there it's like family it's
like being a comedy show it's the greatest experience and so well you know what is it
i think i mean i i honestly think it's the material i just think it is too i think that
there hasn't been a good comedy that's gotten people to you know and there are maybe there's
there have been some good comedies,
but when people go see a bad comedy
and another bad comedy and another bad comedy,
then they don't want to go to the theater to see a comedy.
Same with superhero movies.
That's why superhero movies have, it's a harder marketplace.
And one of the reasons is people feel tricked.
Yes.
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They loved going to see, you know, what, you know, ever that that movie was that got them into superhero movies, whether it was Iron Man or Spider-Man two or guardians or whatever.
And then, you know, they go and then they're like, well, this is really just a pale imitation of that thing that I liked.
And then they go again and they're like, oh, it's this one's even worse.
Yeah.
And they're like, well, shoot, I'll wait for, you know.
HBO Max.
I think you're totally right.
I think that like with comedy, too, there's this thing where when you see a trailer for some of these comedies coming out, yeah, you're watching the trailer and you're like, first of all, I know every beat of this.
Like, there's no you always have to have some element of surprise, right?
So, like, you know, the beats and you're like, this is they're putting the funniest stuff in this trailer and it looks like shit.
And what I always think is I always think about a director because I go, you need I think.
In all filmmaking, you need like a final like this is your POV.
This is you at the helm.
And some of these big studio comedies, you can just sense that there's ten voices being like, it's this, it's this.
It doesn't feel like it's one guy's or girl's vision of like, this is the this is the movie.
And also they lack story.
Like what I like about the idea that you told me about is that there's an there's an idea that people can hook their hats on.
So having that central idea that.
You can put in a trailer and people will understand is good.
Yeah, but I do.
I also think that unlike a horror movie, which is kind of easy to sell in a trailer because all of us get scared in the same way, people laugh at different things.
And a movie like again, I'm going to go back to The Hangover because I think it's one of the best.
It's fantastic.
Yeah.
That has a central premise that I'm talking about.
Yeah.
And then it has, you know, comedy for like real broad comedy that's just for everybody.
Mike Tyson with the tiger.
And then a lot of stuff that's a lot more nuanced, subtle for the people who really like, you know, nuanced comedy.
Yeah.
And so it works for everybody in the audience.
Well, how do you cut that trailer?
It can be a little bit difficult because you've got to be able to sell that to a mass audience and people's like, you know, likes the kinds of comedy they like is is more varied than the type of horror they like.
Sure.
That's, you know, so it's it can be a little bit harder to cut a comedy.
Does it interest you at all?
To like, I mean, you're you have very funny material in your movies, but like to do a comedy that is outside of superhero world, like, like, like a hangover type story.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, it would be a lot of fun to do that.
I mean, I think there's always an emotional angle to whatever I do.
But and I don't I mean, people often think of, you know, the Guardians movies as part comedy.
I never had I never thought of I make myself laugh when I'm writing.
Yeah.
But I never I mean, I can't say that completely, because I did have a lot of, you know, links with comedy when I first came to town and I started my career in a lot of ways.
Every year I'd write a different comedy pilot for whatever network I was, you know, getting work from.
Sure.
But, you know, but originally when I started writing and people were like, oh, my God, it's so funny and they're laughing, I didn't really I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess I knew it was funny when I wrote it.
But that wasn't like the point of what I was writing.
Yeah.
So like your your point was more what the story and the emotional connection to it.
Yeah.
The characters and, you know, the fun of it, whatever.
And I think that just naturally it becomes it's funny because I'm funny, I guess.
Yeah, you are.
Yeah.
I mean, there's there's there's there's really funny stuff.
And yeah, but, you know, laughing in my real life is important.
I mean, it's like, you know, joking around, making jokes like that's my personality in real life.
Yeah.
And that's the other thing.
I mean, I get this thing sometimes from fans online.
Why, you know, why is Peacemaker so funny?
This is superheroes are serious stuff, which, of course, is silly in the first place.
Yeah.
But superheroes are serious stuff.
And I'm like, yeah, but people laugh, man.
People say dumb stuff.
People make jokes.
People laugh like that.
If you have a movie that is deadly serious all the way.
I worked in a hospital when I was young.
I was like surrounded by people dying and people being brought in.
I got in with gunshot wounds and I'd have to move all the bodies in the morgue.
And I we just joked constantly that that gallows humor.
That's that thing.
That's how I don't care what kind of thing you're working on.
People deal with that stuff through joking.
So pretending like if something's serious, there's no humor in it.
I mean, to me, that's just a crock of shit like that.
Yeah.
But that is that that's probably the number one complaint I get.
That's hilarious because I actually think you do.
Like.
There's a great balance to it, which I think is kind of key to this kind of world of, you know, you want your
superhero to be you know heroic and and like badass in his moments but the balance of it is
it's just same thing like what i think it was daniel craig that brought that up when he was
he was cast as bond and then as the movies evolved he was he was making the point that like well
he should have his more like flaws and and these real moments yeah because otherwise it's just a
cool dude walking in every room and you're like all right he's cool but that was always a i mean
that was always the difficulty for me with accessing james bond i always loved james bond
sure but i never got into the world of james bond like i did into the world of say star wars or yeah
you know dc comics or whatever i because he was it's just a character that's just constantly
you know yeah everything's pretty good yeah no flaws and it was really craig that made that
character more interesting i mean yeah more interesting i mean it's not just him but yeah
yeah so it was um yeah that was that was the thing for me with james bond he was just a little
too perfect there's a couple of superhero movies like that too that where if the character doesn't
have any flaws or depth um i just don't care you know yeah and i think a lot of times you don't
realize that you don't care until you see that you're like oh there's just not there's no what's
there to access i don't know how to relate to this person yeah quote unquote um but i think it's just
um because there's no there's nothing there behind the the eyes it's just this perfect paragon of
virtue yeah that doesn't i know it doesn't connect with as many people i don't think yeah yeah they
tended to do that a lot with female characters in the early days of superhero stuff you know
because they didn't want to make them bad in any way and they wanted them to be good examples of
everything but i'm like my man you know star lord gets to be a jerk like he's a jerk rocket raccoon
he's a man he's a jerk yeah you know so i think it's just a little bit of that and i think it's
so i you know like you know i always thought that nebula and gamora and the other female character
should have as many flaws as those male characters that's i think that's yeah that's i really hope
that um that we do see though more comedies come back in theaters me too i mean i think we will i
do think that will happen i i really do uh uh you know as long as the theaters don't close from
nobody going out there yeah but i think uh but i don't think they are i mean i think in certain
ways that the theater is booming um we did have quite a few hit movies this year yeah uh and and
the experience of going to the movies with things like minecraft a movie that a lot of people don't
like but the fact that people made this experience out of it yeah was really cool it was for me to
see it reminded me of what you know i saw the older kids doing when they went to see rocky
horror picture show yeah as a kid yeah my kids flipped for minecraft did they they loved it yeah
yeah my my nephew came home and said that's my favorite movie of all time
yeah i'm like your favorite movie of all time it's like yeah he says it about half the movies
he's like tell that guy he was amazing in it i told him who was it i told momoa oh my son said
you were amazing he's like good did you tell me you thought he sucked yeah yeah i was like you i
didn't wasn't impressed at all momoa's in uh next in supergirl next summer oh sweet he plays lobo
oh he's great man yeah oh yeah he's a great guy yeah he's great um
gonna i wanted to ask like do you do you feel because it's like you know you're in it right
now where you i mean you you hit the fucking i mean i don't mean like it's luck but like it's
like the lottery to be yeah filmmaking you're the head of a studio yeah the the first thing i think
of when i think of that i'm like that's so cool yeah then i think i'm like oh that's a lot of
pressure like meaning that like these franchises mean so much to people like you you know
like you want to honor the the character and their story and this audience that loves it
and then the next thing i'm like god damn it's a lot of work i guess it feels like it's a lot of
work it's a lot of work like i just um when this job first came up i was really torn um
when it first came up it came up outside of the context of uh peter saffron and i doing it
together and that was like no way i don't want to do you know kevin feige's job like that's just not
my thing yeah um and then it came up uh peter and i doing it together and i just i knew that
for the next few years i just would do nothing else but this job but i also knew that it it was
an opportunity that no one had ever had yeah in terms of being a creative at the head of a studio
so i i had to say yes yeah
and i'm i'm happy i said yes but it's it's been a rough few years because of that and um
and uh i'm not sure it's my wife's favorite choice that i've made in our lives i could see that
yeah so it's um i think that uh i really uh you know it was tough and it was really tough and i
but i did feel a certain amount of relief uh
after superman came out yeah um because that was a rough road making that movie that was probably
the the toughest time i ever had making anything from even from like development through production
everything no really just in you know it was hard because it was so you know high pressure yeah
but it really wasn't post it was like i was trying to make a comic book movie and as much as it
sounds strange i've i don't feel like i've ever really made a comic book movie
i feel like the guardians movies were space fantasies and the marvel was an asterisk on
that like it was really space fantasy first it was more based on the space stuff that i loved
like farscape or star wars or whatever than anything else um and so with this i was really
taking on a character that people loved that was so beloved attention and could go a lot of
different ways and so i just i felt a lot of pressure and when it came out and it was
embraced by by far the majority of the audience and you know did well at the box office it was a
big relief well because now i'm like i looked at peter and i remember when like the reviews
when the reviews came out and um we were on the plane flying to china so the movie hadn't come out
yet i have no idea what the reviews are going to be like and i'm playing belatro on my on my my uh
my little phone as i'm flying to china
and peter saffron's a couple seats behind me and he goes the reviews are dropping in two minutes
and i go oh my god don't why did you tell me that so i go up and i'm and i'm playing belatro
and i'm playing like a game for like a half an hour and i'm like oh my god this this must be it
this must be a nightmare because peter hasn't come up and said anything and told me anything
like oh this is this is this is terrible this is my brain this is terrible oh my god this is
worst thing ever it was embarrassing oh you know and uh and then finally i i'm like i'm not gonna go
back till i finish this this game it was a good game i finished the game and then i'm like you
know having that great willpower and then i walk back and i'm like what's up and he's like we're
certified fresh what the hell dude dude come on why didn't you tell me that he's like it just
happened we're certified fresh in a half an hour and uh and i was like i was really relieved and
like it wasn't necessary it was joyful but it was mostly
just this relief yeah of like this energy and this drive that i had been holding in my body
forever yeah because this was the proof of concept because now we have all these other projects that
are related to superman superman directly you know leads into peacemaker yeah peacemaker directly
leads into the next movie in the superman saga superman directly leads into you know supergirl
um totally attached to
you know all the other things we're doing and if it wasn't if it didn't work it would have been
a nightmare yeah um and so i was huge really hugely relieved and then i felt like okay now i can play
now i can have fun i i'm i'm so excited to do the next movie because i know so much more
what i'm doing with the character who the character is who lex luther is
all of this stuff in a way that i didn't um when i started that movie you got great
performances in that there it's a fantastic group of people i mean david cornswet's just a movie star
and i knew that from the beginning and nick holt is is incredible and so what um the move the movie
was is really good man it's really good and it's really fun and i have i love when people tell me
this i'm this is the rare time that all my wife was like make sure you tell him and you're like
huh she's like make sure you tell him i don't like any of these movies these types of movies
and i love this movie and i'm like i will definitely tell him oh i love that i'm sure
i love to hear that i mean because that is and i hear that i hear that i mean i don't want to say
i hear that pretty often about my movies like oh my grandma loves guardians of the galaxy i'm like
really okay cool great yeah she loves that little groot she loves rocket or whatever and i'm like
that's that is that's really what it's about for me i want to create and it is it's so weird people
think i'm you know whatever because i i go from making something like
which has a bunch of flopping penises in the first episode sure yeah
Something like, you know, Superman, which is made for everyone.
Yeah.
And I don't think of it as like, I'm not holding anything back when I'm making Superman.
I'm simply speaking to a different audience than I am speaking to everyone.
And to me, a movie or a TV show is a conversation that you're having with the audience, which
is one of the ways why people get all worked up about AI.
And I think there's, you know, there's good and bad things about AI.
I agree.
But one of the things that people forget is that people, the fact that I'm on this show
means that people like, you know, the communication that they have with the artists.
The fact that this show is so popular is because the audience likes the communication that
they have with you.
And a movie is that.
It's a conversation with the audience.
It's not a one-sided thing.
I'm not just putting something out there that has, you know, no connection to anyone else.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
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Life is a lot.
It's everything almost.
Sometimes you just want to chill.
Sometimes you need to focus.
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And people like that.
And that's how I feel about Superman versus Peacemaker or whatever.
In one, I'm talking to everybody.
And in another one, I'm saying, hey, this is for the adults.
It's like boy talk at the back.
Sure.
It's a little different when the ladies walk in the room.
You're like, hey, shoulders back.
Yeah, yeah.
Do you. Do you enjoy the writing process?
Like, do you enjoy writing?
Somebody asked me this the other day.
And, you know, it's a grind.
It's a grind.
But I'd say, yeah, I'd say I do enjoy it.
Because, like, obviously you're writing, like, so many different things.
Too much, yeah.
But so you get an idea cooking.
Are you, like, do you go, you know, outline, note cards?
Like, how do you actually approach writing your material?
It always changes.
And that's one of the ways I keep it fresh.
But the main, you know, usually what happens, like, with a movie is I spend time,
I'm usually, like, doing something else is my main thing.
So, like, for instance, working on the new script with Lex and Superman.
I was, you know, promoting Superman.
I'm doing all this other stuff.
You know, I'm editing Superman when I started it, you know.
And so I don't have the time to fully commit myself to it.
Because once I start writing the actual script, nothing else exists.
And so I'm just writing down ideas, short synopses, like, real simple.
First act, second act, third act.
Trying to find the center of what the story is.
You know, who the, you know, antagonist is.
Who's the protagonist.
You know, just dealing with these different things.
And I went through a couple of different things.
Like, I wrote a treatment that was very different from what the treatment ended up being.
That I, you know, gave to Peter Safran.
And he liked.
I read it and I was like, there's something missing, you know.
And so I just go through this process of discovery in which the doors are completely open.
I never lock in to anything at that point.
Because locking in at that point is really the death of the creative process.
Because I've done it before where I lock in on this idea.
And then I find that everything else doesn't work so well around that one idea.
So I play, play, play, play, play.
Then after.
You know, time stewing.
I feel like I have that thing.
And then I sit down and I write the treatment.
And the treatment is really worked out.
It's, you know, like this.
The Man of Tomorrow treatment was, you know, 65 pages.
Damn.
You know.
Eventually I put photos in there as reference from the comics and different things.
And then I give that to my select group of people.
And then they give.
Give me notes.
And then I take them in.
The ones that I want.
And don't take in the ones I don't.
And then I get to writing the.
I rewrite the treatment so it fits.
It fits, yeah.
And then I start writing the screenplay off of that treatment.
And then I finish that usually in less than two weeks.
Wow.
So.
But the big thing that helps is that that treatment is so thorough.
The treatment is really thorough.
And that doesn't mean that that screenplay that I've written in two weeks is.
That.
The screenplay is the screenplay.
Right.
Because then I take another bit of time rewriting that.
And that's.
That's.
Once I'm done with that screenplay, that's the fun part.
Then I'm going and I'm improving and making it better.
You know.
And then I finish that draft of the screenplay.
And, you know, I give that.
Which I, you know, did with all the DC Studios folks.
And then they give me notes on that.
Which is always the, you know, fun and terrible part of the process.
Yeah, of course.
You know, this time.
You know, the movie works.
But there are things that I'm still doing to improve it.
And then I'm going to, you know.
Now I'm finishing up the next draft of that.
Wow.
I wonder if.
Because I was thinking about this.
Because I've just come off of two productions.
Yeah.
And you always.
Before you are actually, like, producing.
Uh-huh.
When you hear budgets.
They just kind of.
You just go like.
Oh.
Like, that's a lot of money.
Yeah.
But when you're doing productions.
The one thing that you think of when you think of big budgets.
You think about time.
Right.
Like.
So, like.
I just.
I just came off of this feature that we shot.
We did.
We had 25 shooting days.
Yeah.
And you realize that everything.
Oh, yeah.
Every day is like.
This is wildly important.
That's.
Oh, it's so hard.
And there's, like, nothing you can do.
Like.
Yeah.
We just got to get this shit.
And so, when I think about, like, big budgets.
I always go.
Like, now when I watch everything.
I'm like.
God.
I wonder how many days they had.
Yeah.
Like, that's how I watch everything now.
Yeah.
I'm like.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, I was watching Superman.
I was like.
God.
I wonder how much time they had to do this.
Time.
I think we shoot in, like.
We usually do 91 days.
And then we.
You know.
Something like 90, 91 days.
And then we set aside a few days for pickups.
Right.
Because I always find.
You have to.
That you have little things that you want to, you know.
Screw a little tighter.
A little looser.
And so, that's how much time we have.
But the thing that's different about me is I don't have second unit.
Oh.
So, I really.
I shoot all of.
You shoot all of.
Everything.
Everything.
And everything.
And every movie I go.
I got to have some second unit this time.
Because I really have a guy.
Wayne Daglish.
Who is my stunt coordinator.
Who I really trust and like.
And then I keep stealing second unit from him.
Yeah.
Wayne.
This time.
It's going to be different.
I swear, man.
So, you know.
But it's.
Yeah.
But I really.
So, it is 91 days.
Whereas.
You know.
You take a movie like.
A recent DC movie.
Before we were involved.
Was like.
I think they shot for 91 days.
But then there was like 60 days.
Of second unit.
God.
Really?
Yes.
I don't even know how you afford.
to do it because do those 90 or 91 take into account like um just whatever going wrong like
in other words you have a big set piece and there's a lot of action or whatever and and that
day just inevitably in production things like does it take into account that we might have to do it
without a doubt so the guy who does all my scheduling is Lars Winter he's been my AD
for many years and um now he is the head of production at DC okay um and now he produces
you know our move our movies with me and Peter and uh Lars you know he's been making you know
he did you know Avengers and all he was an AD on all the biggest movies ever not all of them but
sure and um he he really knows what goes wrong and what doesn't but also over the years he's
learned what I do differently
differently um which is which is a lot so for instance you know i i was way under budget on
every movie i made up until uh guardians three was the only one i wasn't but i was under budget on
on superman too really yeah and uh and it's like i just because i'm um i'm i really care about it
i started making movies for like 250 grand yeah so i know what it what you know what it means i
don't like waste and i don't like keeping the crew there for endless hours so we say you know
we shoot you know whatever 12 hour days and then we're done like i don't ever you know yeah if i
have overtime maybe once a whole shoot we go two hours into overtime like but other than that i
never go i rarely ever go you know more than 10 15 minutes into you know over the schedule yeah
so like those kinds of things are things you learn about a filmmaker and that is not the norm
um and so they have learned over the years that when i have a schedule i usually stick to that
schedule pretty closely sure they love that they can count on it yeah and and i have you know vfx
you know a supervisor who i've worked with on many movies now he tells me the amount of shots i have
i say in this sequence we'll need less or in this sequence we'll need way more steph you got to
figure that out because this is how many shots they are i storyboard you know i draw every single
frame of the movie so i know what the shots are um which i change but not enough that it's going
to make everything crazily different um and so yeah and so sometimes you always go over on some
sequences and under on other sequences and lars has learned that over over the years yeah that's
um that's fascinating i um i also think about too like how good special effects are now you know
like when you watch things like i was watching superman and you're like man it's it's it's
you can't believe what you're seeing yeah and then i feel like there's like a i was going like
back when's the cutoff of like this is buy up like you buy it still and i feel like the one
where i'm like oh it's still like because everything you know every year it gets like a
little better i feel like minority report you go like this is now it's like 20 years old or
something yeah but it still looks good like the effects look good yeah and if you start going
further back from that you're like this is yeah well that's i mean i think that's the reason why
people are like oh why did superhero movies all become the rage yeah and it's it's simply visual
effects i mean yeah iron man came out and that was like the first b-list superhero that came out
that was a box office hit yeah the reason is because the visual i mean the movie was really
good yeah but the visual effects were also believable and you know you think about the
stuff that we saw in the 80s and 90s with superheroes and it was like you're like i can't
like ridiculous
looking you can't believe it you can't fully put yourself into that character there's one shot
and this is not a superhero movie but if you watch the fugitive yeah which is a great movie yeah yeah
and that that style movie is also not really done anymore that's like a it's almost like a
procedural feature yeah and it's really it's really good harrison ford jumps off a train
yeah it's just one shot and you're like what the fuck is that what was it because it's like
the green screen is so it looks like it looks like a green screen from 20 years prior it's
like an insert and you're like what is that and it's so goofy when he jumps off of it especially
the like the moving shot you know this is like this is a still i think but it is it's really bad
when you're watching it you're like this is really bad oh wow and i i every time i've at that movie's
on it's like one of those movies that you'll just pick up if it's on you're like yeah i'll watch
this for a while yeah that scene comes i'm like oh my god i can't even yeah that's a great meme that
people should use under post about movies where they don't like the visual effect it's really bad
dude it's really bad yeah i still i you know there are things that i'm really impressed by
and then things i think that we can improve a lot i have a really really uh an eye with visual
effects that's well yours has to be like hard like so i hate everything developed yeah i mean like
it never looks real to me so the one thing i will say you know in superman the things i'm really
proud of there's some work by frames
store who did um crypto in in uh in the early scenes and in some later scenes too
and who did uh the superman robots when they weren't practical and
it's very hard to tell that it's not real really i think so yeah i mean it's like you know that
stuff with crypto in the snow in the beginning even like i mean i have no idea how any of this
shit's done but like when um who's the the spanish actress in superman that's one of lex's like
bad guys yeah yeah uh yeah gab like the way like her the effects of like her hands turning into
shit and like morphing yeah i mean you watch that and you're like i don't know how this is
happening but it's so believable yeah it's so like visually impressive yeah i'll get it better
still yeah i'm sure you will i mean there's still there she is there she is she's about she's about
the best person in the world by the way she is is she fulfilled you know her and nick holt both
you know are
are a testament to the fact that i don't know why but the best villains are the nicest people
i believe that you know also the best um i was explaining to people on the set about this actor
playing a he's dumb right the character's dumb i'm like you get that that guy's smart right
and these people friends of mine they're like what do you mean i'm like you can't play dumb
if you're dumb you don't you're too fucking dumb yeah to do it like you have to know
i'm instantly going to i got there's got to be somebody i know that was good at playing
dumb yeah playing dumb is takes intelligence you know like to to actually have it read well yeah um
you know that you're talking about pickups do you do you know that um have you heard that james
cameron matt damon story do you know that no it's really it's kind of fascinating so i heard matt
damon tell this story where he got a call from james cameron and he goes hey i'm uh i'm doing
this new movie avatar and he tells he goes i don't need a movie star okay like he tells him i don't
need it doesn't need a star yeah but i'd like to offer you the lead um because i i just think you
would be great in this role you know and like the movie will work without a star but i'm give i would
offer it to you and i'll give you 10 of the revenue right and um matt damon tells him he's
like well like i really appreciate that technically i'm available but we're gonna be having just wrapped
the last
um
'Born' like one of the 'Born' trilogy or whatever franchise movies and he goes and we always do
pickups and so i don't want to put that production in a bind by signing on to do yours and knowing i
just know we're gonna have like especially because you know this is crazy action he's like we always
have like quite a few pickup stuff so i just don't think i'll be available and so james told him well
i really respect that you are showing your production that and that's fine i'll just go and
matt damon goes it would have been about 350 million that i would have made i was like god
damn that's a crazy amount of money i wonder what james cameron meant by 10 that's my it's just
because there's no way that's that's his story i don't know but i'm like that's i'm gonna have
to ask him about that next time i see him i don't that's a that's a pretty i mean pretty
sweet offer though right if it's yeah i just i i'm not gonna say i doubt the story yeah well
but cameron's not stupid please fill me in if you have the answer i will i will i'll let you know
i'll let you know but i do believe that he was offered the role and was offered a great amount
of money that he would have made off of it you know much more than he made off but listen born
ultimatum is one of the best action movies of all time so there you go the born stuff is so fun dude
and also you know what he can still pay his bills he's fine he's doing just fine yeah i've seen
i know how much he made off of one of his last movies so it was okay
i'll tell you afterwards okay okay cool cool do you how much time do you guys spend like as
the you know the heads of this planning out where dc goes next like is that a big yeah it feels like
it would be a big it is a big thing well i mean one of the things that we did was when we first
took over um i had written up what god what point was what but i had written up like what the first
shows were supposed to be and then but where the story eventually went and so then we met with
david zasloff was the one who hired us we told him what the basic plan was he was into that we got
hired
He was the only one that knew that. And then we told Mike DeLuca and Pam Abdi and they were into it. And Casey Boyce, who's head of HBO Max. So we had a basic plan, but then I hired a group of writers who I really respected who came in and then we kind of worked out the whole story.
Now, some things have changed since then for various reasons, but the basic thrust of the big story is the same. That is what started in Superman, continues in Peacemaker, goes to the next Superman movie, and then will continue from the movie after that. And then after that. So there was always, there was this big, the bigger plan that we came up with.
It feels like it's got to be like a, I mean, with everything you have and just the scale, it's like you have to think in.
terms like decade right like 10 years it's like a decade yeah and it may be a little less but yeah
but like it's it's very loose too you i want to be you have to be careful because there were certain
projects that were a part of that plan that like because my other rule is that i'm not going to
green light anything without having a screenplay that i love and there were other things that just
didn't haven't worked yet um and so there's you got to be you know able to have the big picture
in mind but then also be willing and be able to shift anytime you need to yeah so the pinpoints
are the same but some of the specifics have changed i have a heavy hitting question for you
you got it will we ever um get a blue gray black batman is that what you want it's just
what everybody wants i don't it's not everybody no it's not everybody it's not everybody because
i have uh people i have uh i have somebody saying please give us this batman and then they
put a picture of the blue gray batman on threads or whatever and then somebody else says you know
you're a piece of shit yeah yeah and i'm like he's a piece of shit because he likes he likes
a pretty pretty hard that's the thing there is a there's a religious aspect to so much of this
stuff that's yes very uncomfortable because you know should batman have white eyes that's a big
subject of conversation is like that's a big combo oh yeah yeah and it's like guys like really that's
really what matters but that those are the things i care about should his utility belt be yellow
should he have the yellow crest around the bat you know all of that sort of stuff um and none of
those things are what's most important to me no what matters is like the character the story and
i think that we have a really really good story now for what's happening with with bat dude i'm
so stoked yeah that was like for me i think age-wise like i introduction to super so
of course i saw the christopher reeve superman as a kid yeah and you're and you're mesmerized
right by he's flying a super it's the whole thing yeah but the funny thing was batman the batman the
michael keaton batman yeah that movie uh i realized like in retrospect it made me feel like
i had adult taste do you know what i mean like as a kid you're like yeah yeah i get what you're
talking about i'm a fucking grown-up yeah yeah because this shit i like this guy who's this jack
nicholson he's good yeah and you know you're like you're like oh she's hot yeah i like her i like
her yeah i like i like adult women yeah i like adult women yeah yeah michael keaton was awesome
in it like that introduction to that world and i i watched it recently and it definitely it feels
like a little more um like i wouldn't want to say cartoonish but you know it's such a it's it is
a separate like the tone in my memory is not the tone of the film yeah i i totally understand that
what you're saying um but i was like that was like i was like so in where i was like i love you like
batman before that or was that what got you into batman no i i did like batman before that and i
even because you know as a kid they were playing even the old adam west oh yeah like you know so
i was like oh batman's cool batman i was like batman robin i thought it was like cool character
i had some comic books but you know that movie for me so i was like i didn't realize this is i think
i forget what year this is but 89
was the first so that that's perfect because i'm 10 so if you're 10 years old right you go oh this
is a genre of film like i don't even know this is a thing really yeah and that it just catapulted
into always wanting to see batman's because like that was that set the bar for me of like this is
awesome yeah that's what i think that's one of the the fun things about batman though is that
there are so many expressions of batman that are cool yes
and different ways to access that character is one of the ways in which he's so iconic so
i don't think it's a matter of the blue and the gray or the black batman i think
both those things are really cool i like the detective batman but i also really like the
fighter batman that's just the brute that's yeah you know fighting i like the you know i like the
i like the silly you know 50s silver age batman with batmite and that's kind of closer to what i'm
what the original batman tv show was like i like all of these different you know versions of batman
but i will say in the same way that was your experience with batman that was my experience
with batman 2 as a kid um because i'm older than you reading the uh the the sort of early 70s neil
adams batman comics that were much darker and grittier and i was like oh i like this batman
you know i had seen batman 2 and i was like oh i like this batman 2 and i was like oh i like this
i'd seen like the sillier batman i'd seen the sillier batman on tv and i'm like oh this is
gritty cool batman um and that was the thing that made me feel more like if not an adult at least a
teenager yeah yeah eight or nine years old it makes you feel like a little more grown up yeah
and i really liked that about i really still like that that version of i like that that version of
batman that was sort of a batman that we've never seen there it is right there see that one
on the upper left corner that's the one that when
that that's it man that was my favorite story that was in a compilation of batman comics that
i read and i just thought it was the greatest ever and it was batman supernatural batman 2
which is something we've never seen batman in like a sort of supernatural environment
were you like a huge consumer of like were you like voracious it was my life it was your life
it was my life so this is like destiny is what it feels like kind of well i think a lot of people
had that as their life that are not the head of dc that's true
it's cool that that the person who is the head does come from that dna oh yeah yeah yeah i mean
like i i spent so much of my childhood skipping school staying home and drawing comics and the
main thing one of the main things i drew were these characters in comics with batman so i drew
like dc comics and i had you know all my own characters who i like to have fighting with
teaming up with batman that's so cool dude
when you um but i'm a big guardians fan i mean i think obviously a lot of people like that's the
thing where you're like this is like such a fun ride thanks and you're a big star wars fan too
right so when you're not as big as i am a comic book fan right but star wars was revolutionary
for me when the first one came out like it really opened me up i just and i you know for the last
my kids are nine and seven two boys and for the last several years yeah every you know you go like
hey i want you to check this out i would bring up star wars they're like we don't want to see you
see that shit i was like what and i was always like no they're like no like these were always
like i don't want to see it and i was i would try and they would just and then this summer i was
like you guys want to watch star wars and they were like yeah okay and i sat them down and we
we went through new hope empire yeah jedi and then we went to uh uh whatever the
first phantom menace phantom menace and then attack of the clans the funny thing was
i watched those first three locked in yeah locked in they were like who's this guy and i'm like
that's darth vader they're like what kind of fucking name is that i'm like it's this guy
lives in outer space i don't know like they were like questioning everything but then like really
into the dark side and good like you realize like the lessons of the movie like it really impacted
them it's really yeah and then we got to the the newer ones and i couldn't keep them in their seats
like they would just get up and walk around they're slower movies they're slower movies
i mean phantom menace in particular is much slower much slower but those first three they
really got into it yeah but i'm wondering did they see rogue one no we didn't make it up to
rogue one yet no they should see that i'll i'll try to get them back i think one is great it's
great it's like up there with my favorites rogue one is awesome yeah um when you're making or you
know feeling that i know that uh george lucas was influenced like big time i think kurosawa but he
always references joseph campbell yeah
mythology yeah do you like think of mythology and everything as well i mean i think of joseph
campbell because my my background is i have a mfa in writing within prose writing um and and i've
always i've studied all of that you know the hero's journey and and you know those books made
a big difference to me as a writer you know kind of finding things that are innate and storytelling
no matter what um but uh yeah i'm i'm into all that
stuff but i also think also got to be open for whatever is yeah not that and when you i was
because it's like a space fantasy guardians
i'm saying right like it's that whole world do you have to like entertain the idea of like is this
too much like like i mean they're not the same movie at all but does that enter your mind when
you're making something that like no because like when i started working on one of the things that
inspired me to do guardians when he first asked me you know when they first asked me if i was
interested i wasn't certain at first and the first thing that sort of snapped in was rocket story
and the second thing that snapped in was this could be star wars for kids to allow kids to
feel like i felt when i saw star wars but it's many years later and that means that that voice
is much different than what it was when star wars came out so it always felt innately different from
star wars while having the same impact okay you know the same impression you want to want people
to have an emotional connection i want them to have that connection i want them to have that
feeling of magic i just you know for me it was like i remember being a kid when star the first
star wars came out i was i was had never seen a pg rated movie before and i was in the grocery store
and i saw people magazine with like c3po and and uh chewbacca on it and i was like oh my god i want
to inject that into my brain yeah and so that was that excitement and i knew that i could do that
with kids with rocket and group
yeah i mean they're yeah you connect yeah like the like and the humor's there like you get
huge laughs and like it's it's so fucking cool man um how did like when they pitch you this or
this is presented to you is it that you connected to those characters and that's what drew your
interest they could they they had already announced marvel had already announced that
they were doing guardians of the galaxy and they had shown and they had shown that they were doing
an image they had announced it at uh comic-con already and they had shown an image that one of
their concept artists had drawn of um of the guardians and um and so that's what they pitched
to me um and so i went you know i i honestly at first i was like i mean first of all i didn't
really think i was being taken that seriously i didn't know
how seriously they were taking me because my movie before that had cost two million dollars
but i was driving but my first reaction was honestly like i don't know about this like it
seems kind of like bugs bunny in the middle of star wars and i just don't know about it like
i just i don't you know i don't want to write the first marvel bomb which is what
every article said before the movie came yeah and i was like i just don't know but then it when once
i said okay we'll take it let's just like forget all those voices for a second i'm like if rocket
was real this goes back to what we're talking about initially if rocket was real what would he
be and i realized he would just be the saddest creature in the universe and that he was this
innocent little animal that was turned into something he shouldn't be and that that was this
incredibly melancholy center of what otherwise would seem like this kind of peppy happy franchise
which is what i think the
whole trilogy is about that moment and rocket's journey through those three movies who to me was
always the protagonist of those three movies um and he was the one i related to that's it that's
the original piece of art so you see how it's like it looks like a skeleton guy yeah i don't know
what's going on with rocket um gamora doesn't even look like they totally thought her out yeah
but star lord and this is what you this is the first thing they present that's what they showed
to me yeah yeah yeah and i don't know i mean i just thought i mean that's a really cool piece of
like something on a cereal box rocket yeah so i uh yeah and that's that's that's what started out
but once i came upon that then i was off to the races it was like i couldn't stop i was crazy
and uh and then i i just you know went nuts what do you do you have do you do anything for fun
because i don't feel like you have any time um uh well i talked earlier about i played
belatro on my phone i remember that when i'm on flights to china yeah um um i i have a group of
guys who i've been friends with for 20 years yeah and uh and when i'm in la we meet once a week
that's cool yeah uh i uh one of them i've been friends with uh for for longer since 95 he's he's
been my best friend he's in most of my movies stevie black art oh yeah um and uh you know i
smoke cigars nice fuck yeah you smoke cigars yeah sometimes yeah yeah so uh yeah so i've been
i do some things i i really i don't i have a hard time getting joy from anything that doesn't work
yeah yeah oh yeah i mean so i mean i relate yeah that's that's uh that's it's it's a it's a problem
in my life yeah you know i'm trying to figure out ways that i can have fun doing other things i mean
i take my dogs for a walk once a day that's fun yeah sure i guess i mean it's it's calming yeah
i get that um i don't think most people are like you know what i do for fun i walk my dog i walk
my dog yeah but i get it i'm on property in uh in atlanta how do you feel okay one i gotta ask
you these couple things how do you avoid uh because this i think this happens to people who
you know achieve great success especially in comedy where then they go i'm gonna take myself
real seriously now do you know what i mean like yeah i we i mean i'm not gonna name there's
after when we talk about matt damon's money yeah but you know i mean like you're in in because
you're obviously like a very talented filmmaker but there's also comedy is a big part of what
you're doing uh there's comedy in in everything that i've watched and i'm like yeah how do you
do you you know i mean do you need to be reminded or do you think it's just innately in you to not
it doesn't seem like you take yourself when your material too serious like you still honor it your
story still is i mean i i honestly like
i i want to say i want to sit here tom and look good to you and say oh i don't take it seriously
i know you take the work but i take it so seriously i mean i take the characters
so seriously like i really i believe in the characters i cry every time i you know like
yeah there's a you know you know episode six of of uh of uh peacemakers coming out soon there's a
scene in that that i cry every single time i see this i get moved in the first episode of peacemaker
when i see the scene i get moved in the first episode of peacemaker when i see the scene i get
you know so there's stuff in there i take really seriously yeah uh superman i i it's there's a
lighter touch to it um but i take the characters really seriously you know i really i love those
characters you know so i do take it seriously i just i guess i meant like you don't take
you don't take yourself and what you're doing so seriously that you i don't give a shit about
being perceived as a serious filmmaker there we go i mean i mean if i had my
druthers would it be like oh yeah like that you know they can people like me like in the same way
they like some serious guy yeah maybe i don't know but like it's just i i'm here to play and
make money like that's those are the two things that i like yeah you know and so it's like i'm
just you know trying to to to create stories that people can become involved in yeah and uh and and
create big stories and myths modern myths that excites me so much
but i don't care so much about being a filmmaker frankly and and you know what i'm not i'm not the
same kind of like you know i talked to my friend edgar wright i i love edgar he's a total filmmaker
he watches so many movies but i love comics i love tv shows i love movies i love storytelling
i am ultimately married to storytelling not to cinema yeah you know as much as i love cinema
and it's probably my biggest love of all of those things i love
mostly my my mistress is is the craft of storytelling yeah i see did you watch um this
the limited series ripley no you've never seen it dude i'm missing out yes okay i i think honestly
i think it's a master class in storytelling okay cool and it's it's one of the best things i've
ever seen okay cool and i i remember that i like i was a big fan of the feature the
talented mr ripley yeah me too and i was like oh it's a beautiful film i mean it's just great
fun movie um and when i heard there's a limited series i was like that's so dumb
yeah like i went that guy's a really good actor that guy that plays andrew scott yeah yeah yeah
but as like just i only say this because you you were like you know storytelling this is like
it's you know to me when i when i'm watching something if you can tell some story part of
the story is just visual storytelling like you don't even have dialogue yeah and you actually
are following the story this series does that so unbelievably well it's it's just i mean it's
beautifully shot the performances are incredible but it feels like master class storytelling it's
black and white it's all in black and white it's unbelievable yeah unbelievable um they should
colorize it they could do that yeah we can send them a note i know a couple people there you send
them a note you know what i have ted sarandos's number yeah yeah let's just give him a quick text
hey man yeah let's update this
What?
My last, I got to ask you this too.
People will like it more.
About casting.
Because this is like a fascinating process.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I know, like, you know, when something works really well, you kind of just go like,
yeah, it usually stands out when it doesn't work, where you're like, this is fucking weird.
Yeah.
But this cast, but like, for instance, Peacemaker has, you have, I think, perfect casting.
You know, we replaced one of the guys.
He died?
First season, the character that played Vigilante.
Yeah.
Was played by another actor that we, please don't show the other actor.
Okay.
We can cut stuff out.
But Freddie Stroma, who plays Vigilante, we had shot five and a half episodes of the first
season with another actor.
And I decided it wasn't working.
And we hired Freddie to, and I had to reshoot all the stuff with him.
That seems like a tough decision.
It was a tough, it was tough to, it was tough to do.
But luckily, we were, again, very under budget.
We still ended up really under budget.
So we were able, we were able to afford to do it.
I did the same thing in the second season with another character.
But it was, I just, I mean, I, you know, if something's not working, you know.
Do you, when you first sense it's not working, do you, obviously, like, do you try, like,
oh, we'll try to do something to make it work?
Or is it just like, this just doesn't work?
Well, that's a good question.
That's a good question.
As far as performances go.
I mean, I tried to make it work every second.
I mean, the very first day we shot a scene, I was like, oh, no.
Like, how can I get, you know.
And then sometimes you feel like that as a director.
And then you get to the cutting stage and you're like, oh, no.
It works really well.
It cuts together.
Because I'm really intense on set with actors.
And sometimes it's, you know, my concerns are just a way to make the scene better.
And it doesn't match the reality of, oh, the scene's not working.
But in that case, we started cutting it together.
And I'm like, oh, God, this is everybody's favorite character in the script.
And he's my favorite character in the show in a lot of ways.
And I am, it's just not working.
But that feels, like, that sounds brutal to have that.
It's brutal.
It's brutal.
Yeah, it's brutal.
I only learned, I learned last year about the Back to the Future.
Yeah, that's brutal, too.
I didn't know that story.
I know.
I know.
I mean, and Eric Stoltz is a very good actor.
Yeah, he's a very good actor.
He's a very good actor.
And it's like, oh, that sucks that that hangs over that guy's head for the rest of his life.
It does.
But then, like, when you look at it through the lens of what, like, he's a very capable actor.
Yes, it's. It's not that he's not a capable actor.
No, there's a light touch to it that Michael J. Fox brings that he is that character.
Yeah.
You know, and Stoltz is just. He's more of a grounded, heavier actor.
Yeah.
And it just doesn't match.
It doesn't match.
But how about. This is the one where I'm like, there feels like. We're talking about Bond, right?
And so, like, they're always talking about, like, you know, usually actors, they do three
or four.
And then there's just the whole thing of, like, who's going to get the role next?
And it's like, it's a global dialogue.
And everyone's like, you know, it should be this.
And how come it's not a woman or whatever?
Yeah.
People, you know, you're like, all right.
Well, they. And they finally. It's always like, you know, it's like, okay.
I mean, he's known for banging a bunch of shit.
But yeah.
So have it be like that.
I'll watch that movie.
I'll watch that movie, yeah.
But there, you know, I don't know if there's anything that feels, like, heavier than casting
Superman, right?
Like, that feels like that is the big, like, the big choice.
Absolutely.
So when you're starting. It's harder than Batman.
It's harder than anything.
It feels like it would be.
Batman's wearing a mask.
Did you see. People. Batman doesn't have Batman face.
Right.
Like, the thing about our Supermans is they've all had Superman face.
Yeah.
You know?
Whether it's Brandon Ruth or Henry Cavill or Christopher Reeve or David Cornsweth, they
all have Superman face.
Yes.
And that's a specific sort of thing because people kind of have some idea of what Superman
looks like from the comics.
Yes.
So right away, you're incredibly limited.
I mean, think about all the different types of people that have played Batman.
Oh, here we have. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you're right.
With Batman, it's like Keaton, Ben Affleck.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know?
Christian Bale.
George Clooney.
They're all totally different.
Yes.
You know?
Whereas Superman's more physically specific.
So I was terrified going into that casting process.
And I said to Peter, I said, if we can't find the right guy, I am not going to make this
movie.
There's just no way.
I'm not going to, you know, suddenly be like. You know, Paul Giamatti's a great actor, but I'm not going to cast him as Superman.
I would love to see him.
And hope we get away with that.
Yeah, that would be amazing.
It would be pretty cool to remake it with Paul Giamatti.
But how long did it take you to. I'm going to do my George Lucas recut with Paul Giamatti.
That's the fucking. And David's role.
Until you break the internet.
David, he knows Paul's a good actor.
Was it a long time to find David?
Here's the funny part.
Yeah.
Second audition I saw.
The second?
Yeah.
And were you locked in?
I wasn't locked in, but I was like. Like, I think we're going to be okay.
Really?
If that's my worst choice, that we're going to be okay.
There was like a guy who I thought was going to be really good, who I'm like, go. You know, sometimes I see these guys in like little roles and I go, oh, he's going to be
great.
And so I went to, you know, I asked for his audition.
And so that when I got all of the auditions on tape, and I think people can go online
and see, because I think GQ published David's audition.
But when I. When I went and saw that list of all those actors, I watched that guy first.
And I'm like, oh, shit.
He's not. He's not it.
I thought he was so hopeful.
And I'm like, well, I really. I also picked out David Cornswell because I had seen him in Pearl, Ty West's movie.
And so I watched his second and I'm like, oh, my God.
Oh, my God.
Oh, my God.
This is the greatest thing ever.
Because he was. He handled the humor.
He's very serious in Pearl.
And so I knew he looked. He looked like Superman and I knew he was a good actor.
But I didn't know he could handle the sort of wry goofiness of Superman.
Really.
You know, that's what. I like that about Superman.
He's got this sort of farm boy charm goofiness about him that we love and find endearing.
And that needed to be a part of Superman for me.
And so he had that right away.
And I was like, oh, this is. When they auditioned for that, like, are they doing, like, Clark Kent and Superman?
Or is it, like, just one type of scene?
Are they giving you. I didn't think so much.
There it is.
So it's. I had rewritten. You know, you know these scenes are going to get out.
So. Yeah.
Well, this one didn't actually.
But you're afraid they're going to.
And so I wrote another version just for auditions of the interview scene with Lois that's in
the movie.
Ah.
And that is really where he's being both Clark and Superman at the same time.
And he switches back and forth a little bit.
And so that. That's a great scene, by the way.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And I do feel like you kind of surprise yourself as the audience watching that.
Yeah.
Because you don't expect yourself to get kind of. Like, I was like, stop being an asshole to him.
Just fuck. Why are you trying to. You know what I mean?
Like, you're. Yeah.
You catch yourself getting involved.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're being a bad girlfriend.
It was a fun. Fuck, yeah.
Dude, that's awesome.
Did you guys just. Did that already exist?
Yeah, they. They're on point.
How can you not make that now?
Yeah, I know.
Are you not inspired?
I am.
You know, I am.
I am kind of inspired.
God, I love that guy.
I love that actor.
Anyway, yeah, so that was really. So I was very lucky with Superman.
And the weirder thing is that then I went to look at all the Lois tapes, and Rachel was
a part of that group.
And so you're like, oh, this is great.
The Loises were. Unlike Superman, like, there were a couple of. You know, the three actors who ended up screen testing for Superman were the three. There were three I could see in the role, and there wasn't anybody else.
It was a much more slim pickings.
Loises were. There were some good Loises, man.
That was a. That was hard.
Those actors were, you know. But I screen tested them together, and I screen tested Rachel and David together, and part
of it was their chemistry together.
They had good chemistry.
Yeah.
Well, this was so fucking fun, man.
I love it, man.
Thank you for coming in.
I'm happy to finally be here.
Finally, happy to meet you.
Absolutely.
I really appreciate it.
I appreciate you, too, man.
Peacemaker airs on HBO Max Thursdays.
It drops at 9 Eastern, currently in a second season.
If you have not watched, dude, jump into season one.
It's fantastic.
Really entertaining.
Super funny.
Yeah, this is so cool, dude.
James Gunn, everybody.
See you guys next week.
See you next week.
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