James Gunn and Peter Safran Exit DC. Plus, Timothy Simons and Justine Lupe on ‘Nobody Wants This’ Season 3.

[MUSIC] >> I need support staff to clear the room. >> Stand up and walk now. >> Hello and welcome to the watch. My name is Andy Greenwald. I still have no official title at the ringer, but I am happy to be joining you on what does feel like another line. I am still remote from New York. And our good friend, Chris Ryan, is on vacation, which is rare and deserved. So we won't bother him too much. A little bit of housekeeping. Today, you're going to hear from me. And then you're going to hear me talk to two very special guests, our old friend Tim Simons and our new friend, Justine Loup, who are the co-stars. And some might say the secret stars of the Netflix series. Nobody wants this. The third season premiered a couple of weeks ago to great fanfare and fan response. And the show has just been renewed for season four. So it was really fun to talk to Tim and Justine together and get some insight into their obvious and unique chemistry, both on and off screen and how their characters have kind of emerged as the de facto co-leads or second leads in a romantic storyline that is really frankly quite charming. So talk to them for quite a bit. I think it's worth it. If you've seen the show, if you haven't, they're just lovely people, talented people. And great guests. Plus, I got to drag Tim a bunch, which is always fun for me. The only other things to let you know you guys know about is that our Thursday show is in some state of flux due to the fact that neither Chris nor I are in our normal home studio or home city or a home time zone. So we're trying to figure something out. But the details of that are TBD. But hopefully we do get a second show off to you guys this week at some point. Catching up on the lowdown. Maybe doing a little bit more Black Dubs. Maybe something else that he's been watching. And he'll tell me to watch tonight that happens sometimes. The only big news that I wanted to cover briefly, although I'm sure we'll be unpacking it. More in the future was there was an actual industry surprise today. There was an unexpected shakeup. Just weeks after being announced as part of the newly merged Warner Brothers Paramount, Skydance, Creative Leadership Team, it was announced today that James Gunn and Peter Saffron are out as heads of the DC studios. This kind of caught a lot of people off guard, not just that they were out, that they were out so abruptly, that they were out so shortly after being announced as being in. If there was a time for leadership change, I think many people thought it was right as the merger was happening for the fresh start. Also announced today is their replacement. A man named Jeremy Latchem, who was a former senior VP of production and development at Marvel, and apparently overlapped with James Gunn on the first Guardians of the Galaxy movie. And then if you look at his credits, he seems like he had a pretty high ranking and important role alongside Kevin Feige and Louis Despazito and the other leadership structure for those kind of phase one and to phase two Marvel movies. So the new setup is Jeremy Latchem is stepping in. He begins in the position at the top of next month, December 1st, and interestingly, reporting to the Skydance Motion Picture Group co-chairs Dana Goldberg and Josh Greenstein. This is an important detail in this announcement. A few weeks ago, when it was announced that James Gunn and Peter Saffron were maintaining their titles as head of DC Studios, they were part of on the org chart. I know you guys go nuts for Hollywood org charts, who doesn't. They reported directly to the CEO, which was, you know, until a few weeks ago, David Sazlove, and then now is David Ellison and Yunan Kreis, who came over from Mattel. So now, DC, like the other heads of, like Warner has, you know, I think it's called clockwork, or they have these other Warner Brothers animation, they now report directly to the head of film. The significance of this is that what Gunn and Saffron had been empowered to do was basically run their own studio that was distributed by Warner Brothers and under the larger corporate umbrella where there was WBD or Skydance. What seems to be the case now is that DC is a brand. DC is an imprint, not its own studio, which, you know, maybe that's just semantics, but it does feel kind of significant for how they want things to be managed, and maybe it's also for how they want costs to be managed. So it's been interesting to see some of the fallout. Gunn is still writing and directing and probably moving into post on the Superman sequel, Man of Tomorrow. The Skyler's Gizando starring Gorilla Grudge and the Olsen Show, that's happening. Happening soon, and Gunn in his announcement, which was very much about how, like, he kind of didn't like all the responsibilities of being the boss. He kind of likes just being an artist and filmmaker. He announced that he had just gotten the sign off to write another project for them, TBD. And, you know, we'll see if that comes to fruition or not. It's interesting to think about why this happened or why this happened now. I think some people are pointing to the massive, almost catastrophic money loss, money losing of Super Girl Less Summer. But that was less summer, and it's already, you know, that the clock has turned and attention then went to Clayface, which I didn't see, but by all accounts was fine and didn't really lose money, maybe even broken, even or made a little bit of money. And then going into Man of Tomorrow next summer seems like there was a little bit of wind back in their sales. And then there's always this speculation that's been bubbling this whole time about what he's going to green light next and what projects are still to come. Lanterns was quite a big hit, I think, internally for the company and for HBO. But you could point to the fact that that was really Chris Mundy and his creative partners sort of steering a ship over some rocky waters while having to navigate the larger DCU demands of James Gunn. So I'll say this. I don't have any particular insight or any knowledge into it. But I think that this, my sense of this is that it is less about a repudiation or rejection of James Gunn's vision for the DC universe. I think it's less about the financials or the optics of losing so much money on Supergirl. You know, that's Warner Brothers problem. Skydances, I guess, can start their books fresh, although they're crippled with enormous debt involved in the transaction to create the company in the first place. To me, this feels more like the essential challenge of elevating creatives to management. Like this is a story that is one of the major stories throughout the history of Hollywood that like we have this industry that often conflates or expects an easy coexistence between two skill sets that couldn't have less to do with each other. This is something that you see a lot with show running, too, where sometimes the people who are the most brilliant creative minds, the most creative writers aren't necessarily the best managers. They are completely different parts of your brain. I think the very best, best, best, like, you know, top 1% are the people who are effortlessly good at both. But that's kind of like being, it's not even like being like Deon Sanders. It's like being really good at sports, but also really good at lyric poetry. You know, they couldn't be different hemispheres of the brain. So I'm not saying anything that James, I have no reason to believe James Gunn was bad at managing, but it does sound like a challenging thing when half of your job is something that used to be 100% of your job, which is writing and directing movies and TV shows that are very specific to the aesthetic that got you the job in the first place. And the other half of your job is building for the future and hiring people and setting the tone and trying to micromanage other people's projects to build the larger corporate things. And that's how you get in up in trouble with stuff like, you know, the quote that he ended up kind of getting hung around his neck like an Elbetross, right? That you said that the difference between the DCU he was going to create and the MCU that he was coming from was that in the MCU, well, he never specifically criticized the MCU, but he said that the DCU would start with a script. And only when the script was airtight would they go into production. And again, I think, charitable people who went to see Supergirl and Clayface, even those who liked the latter would argue that that was clearly not the case. And then I wonder how many projects, whether it's like the Brave and the Bold or what to do about Batman or what the future was beyond some of these very specific or niche passion projects of his like creature commandos or or or peacemaker, like what where was the energy and where was the time building towards the larger project, which you know, that's what Warner Brothers wanted at a DC after they saw what Disney was able to do with Marvel. It's kind of hard to have the person making the movies also be deciding on the future of the cinematic universe. So it does sound like they're going to go more in towards a feykey like brand management role for Jeremy Lachem. And then he'll be more able to hire and hopefully not to often fire the creatives to play into the larger corporate strategy. I got to say like I I'm looking forward to the Superman sequel as someone who is a fan of what can happen when more unique creative voices are empowered to make larger decisions. It's kind of a bummer. I wish that it had worked even though I you know, I'm not the number one gun guy, but I like the idea of a very specific sensibility being the driving force and seeing how that shook out. And I would again point to lanterns as an example of potential successful way forward because Nathan Philly and his guy Gardner is a kind of silly gun like expression of a character that does one thing in Superman. But when he touched down in Nebraska in lanterns, the silliness and extremity of the character was able to be shaded by the show that Monday and Tom King and Damon Lundeloff are making. So I thought that was cool. I thought it was interesting, but it will be interesting to see what comes going forward because clearly the new leadership at Skydance on some level was like, what's the 10-year plan here, guys? And where's the consistency in it? And if the consistency is really tied to the one guy making one movie every three years, that's not a successful strategy for shareholders, which is not the why people should be making movies, but it is an interesting wrinkle by where we are right now. Okay, that was my take. That's a day show, basically, guys. I'm going to now turn it over to myself and my interview with Tim Simons and Justine Loop, the co-stars of Nobody Wants This. I hope you guys want this. I love doing it, and we will be back in some shape or form at the end of the week. And don't worry, I've already made it clear that Chris gets one vacation every two or three years, and then he's back in the podcasting minds where he belongs. Enjoy the interview. Talk to you guys later in the week. I am so pleased to be joined on the podcast by two of the stars of the hit Netflix comedy Nobody Wants This. Justine Loop and our old friend of me, Tim Simons. Welcome back to the show and welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you, Annie. It's great to see you. I'm very excited to talk to you guys. First of all, congratulations on season three and also congratulations on the recent announcement of the renewal for season four. This is big. That's great. So, okay, so I want to start here. You guys are both savvy, showbiz professionals. You know your way around the industry. And with that in mind, I'm wondering at what point in the process of your involvement in this show? Was it as early as season one? Did you really look at the trend lines and you were like this hot rabbi business really only has so many moves to make before it peters out. And we're going to be the stars of this show. Like at what point did you at what point did you kind of see where it was headed? And like just start making moves along those lines, be honest. Justine and I have been pretty Machiavellian about this from the beginning. We talk a big game about being a very tight ensemble, but we know we've had a target on KBs and Adams backs since the beginning. That's what I'm saying. Like it was so cool the way you guys just laid back in the cut. Nobody saw this coming, right? Oh, sure. High five, too. It all just seems to have grown out of I think, you know, a lot of opportunities just in the amount of time, you know, I've said this before, but like, you know, in most like film romantic comedies, you have 90 minutes and and every supporting character is there truly to just to literally support the two people getting together. And I think just by nature of the fact that we have five hours of screen time every season, like you can't help but give a little bit of extra time to flesh out the supporting characters on the show, whether it be Justine or me or Jackie or, uh, or Stephanie and Michael who played Justine and Kristen's parents, like there's just time to expand. And, uh, and the writers have just have just been really generous in that. I think it's been really cool to see the way that like the writers have written towards some of the show's strengths and some of the chemistry that exists within the cast. But I wondered if you guys could talk or maybe Justine, you could lead it off about like the two of you getting to know each other as people and performers and starting to like find little moments and take pleasure in the scenes that you got even when they were more in the background prior to the season. Yeah, I feel like from the very beginning, I mean, you know Tim, as you mentioned earlier, I'm not going to brag about it, but yeah, uh, like, you know, I was just, I was just doing, you know, he had a right up in the Rolling Stone magazine and not to give him too much, you know, PR. No, he texted it to me. I mean, he's been doing his own PR on that. I said in, and that interview, I was one of the people that they turned you for, you know, quotes. And the thing about him is he's just so warm from the get. And, um, so pretty immediately I felt like a kindred spirit. I just, I was drawing him. I felt really open with him. And I think because of that, when you feel that kind of instant warmth with someone, there's like, you know, you can kind of like relax a little bit. And because of that, stuff comes up and chemistry comes out and you can play a little bit more. And you can feel comfortable, like taking things a little bit further in certain spots. And so I would say like pretty instantly, I felt like we were already having a lot of fun together on the show. And since then, he's like, become one of my best friends and we're spouses are closed. And I feel like our work has gotten more expansive together. We got to do some really fun stuff this year. And I just talked about this in an interview where I just feel like when you do three years with someone, you get to kind of pull on the feeling that you have about them as a person in the work. It's kind of this like weird crossover between like how I feel about Tim and how Morgan feels about Sasha. And so I feel like some of the inherent love that I have for Tim came out in like this season between Morgan and Sasha. I hope that wasn't too long when answering your question. Oh, it was a wonderful way, but also a little overly kind and generous. I know. That's too much. That's the end of that, you know. Okay, good. I thought about why you could Tim, like take it and run. I'm going to take it and run. I'll also throw out just like that. I think pretty early on, I felt like a similar style of work even though Justine and I are different certainly, but there was like a way that we looked at things that I felt like there was a bend diagram overlap to and whether that's just because we're both kind of weirdos or whatever. But I also think like just to what Justine was saying about the person as something I've said before that Justine even in this like sort of very messy and very very chaotic character can bring this sort of intense vulnerability. And that was something that I really responded to personally, especially in those later episodes of this season where there were times, you know, if for people that have seen this show, there's a scene in parking garage where Justine sort of like lays bare or something that's very hard for her. And it was, it was there was such an intense vulnerability to it that just sort of as an actor, I kind of wished the writers had just let me solve it. You know what I mean? It was like justine personally is in pain here and I feel like we got a letter off the hook. Yeah, Justine, you're brilliant in that scene as you are in the whole season. Tim, I guess I wonder, you know, you are a well known for your amazing role on Veeb and Jonah did change over those seasons, but I don't know how much he grew. And I wondered what it's been like having the chance to, you know, all pilots are essentially caricatures and then they become characters and then maybe in success, they become people. I wonder what the experience has been like specifically for you getting the chance to do that and playing scenes in this most recent season that I don't know anyone who had seen season one would think you had not that you as an actor head in you, but that the character had in him. I mean, number one, like really flattering for the opportunity that was not something that I, you know, this sort of like romantic, this romantic lane that we got thrown into is certainly not something that I thought I would ever be given an opportunity to do. So it's really flattering. And there was something that I did notice even though I don't know that I thought about it at the time, as we were shooting, but just something I was realizing as I was watching it, that there actually has been a little bit of maturity and a little bit of growth from Sasha in ways that I didn't expect when it started. So I don't know. I think I, like, grateful for the opportunity is the first way to think about it. And then after that, just like, you know, what a like what a gift that we have been on long enough to explore those things, you know, that we have had the time, you know, as you say, like, I don't think anybody looking at the first couple episodes of season one would have seen that being a part of it. But, you know, what a gift to do something that you're not normal, that you're not used to doing that you can like push against the edges of an expand them, you know. I mean, maybe too much opportunity. I would think I speak for all the girl dads out there when I see that the room that Sasha has just thrown together off of Etsy, like for his daughter. It's like, okay, well, that was like Bluey's dad level of like hyper competence, honestly. It's like, it's like a little much set in the bar a little high. Justine, I'm not sure your your process as an actor, but are you the sort of person that, you know, whether it's in the moment, in episodes or at the end of a season or in the build up to another season where you ask the writers and creators, whether it's Aaron or whether it's Jenny, like, you know, what what am I going to get to do? What might you like to explore? And I wondered if you asked questions about what Morgan's journey might be. And were you surprised by some of the answers? Well, they invite us, they invite us into the writer's room once before we start production basically to give us kind of like the overall arc of what's going to happen this year they invited Tim and I the year before they invited Christian and I and kind of just like gave us the bullet points of what they were thinking it changed a lot from that point but I do think I in retrospect it was helpful that they invited us in and they kind of gave us that overview because I kind of like came back with the proposal initially they were going to have like Morgan kind of like pretend that I didn't New York didn't happen and be you know kind of flipping about the whole thing and write him off and I kind of came back and was like Aaron what if Morgan carries the flame a little bit like what if Morgan's the one that is like shook by this whole experience and like that this is like a bit of character development that she actually is like their stakes for her that it's not just like okay bye you know like the normal kind of girl that we've seen over the seasons and they took it and they ran with it and they really she was like really excited by that idea and so it was like a nice I'd say that was the only time that they really let us into what was going to happen and then past that Tim like yeah they give us little updates kind of throughout the season but most of the time we're getting the scripts you know pretty up like on the line we're like right on the line and and luckily I think over these three seasons there's been like this really nice rapport that's been built between us and the writers where we can kind of talk and workshop things after we have the table reads and and propose like thoughts but yeah I enjoy having that little piece and besides that I kind of am not one to just get in there and be like hey what's gonna happen what's gonna happen what's gonna happen um just because I know so much changes anyway especially in this kind of like Netflix comedy uh medium and um and also because I kind of like the surprise of like what's ahead and not knowing what's coming and I'd imagine you also see how that behavior is received when Tim does it and you're like I don't want to be that annoying this is just a firing line the essential story of season three is too many people want to have sex with you like that it's like honestly gross it's just a little like you need a little brushback pitch is all I'm saying and this is the place I'm crowding the plate you're right but but so but the question for you Tim like in in the same spirit is like I wonder what you thought of you know you have a show where you and justine have wonderful chemistry as performers and the characters suddenly have this unexpected chemistry but you know in terms of like creating a world in which characters can be respected like uh Jackie's character it has to be a whole person also and so I your experience watching them creatively navigate that as well as navigating it on screen so that everybody got treated like an adult person basically even though you know the story was bending towards your character with justine no I do think that that was I mean it was a conversation even in the first season and and ultimately I do think that they did the right thing by by not addressing it early because it allowed you know it allowed for them to maybe right toward this even if they hadn't decided you know I don't think they really decided and until like the beginning of the pitch out of the third season so even in the second season I don't think necessarily that they were setting this all up for this season to happen but it seemed to be it it felt like it was earned and it got there naturally and I think both justine and I have talked before about the idea that like yeah it's an interesting story but if you do it and there's like and you and it involves somebody cheating on their wife and they have a kid like this ceases to be funny or charming and is probably going to lead to a revolt amongst audience members and I do like that that time allowed for Esther to expand and that this wasn't just like oh well we're trying to rush toward this storyline we need to actually give it some weight and do it properly. I assume you guys can feel comfortable speaking for her we don't have the great Jackie tone on this call but I imagine that she went to the writer's room and said I need at least one of the leads from wings as a romantic interest if not both. I assume Tim daily will arrive in season four but like that would sort of balance the scales. I actually got to go into the pitch out room twice. I went once with Justine and the other time with Jackie just because she needed me to back her up when she said she actually demanded both this season and the compromise was one. I see I see but yeah they were like we can get used to Steven Weber and Tony Shaloup like of we can't get Hayden Church and we can't get Tim to sorry there's probably too much time on wings but there's way too much time on wings but you know what other pot is going to go there you know there is bravery still in the medium. Justine you know you are an incredibly accomplished actor you are classically trained as they say I believe you're a graduate of the Juilliard school but I imagine somehow and I want to presume too much we're just meeting here that like even when you are treading the boards maybe part of you wanted to do a pretty woman montage that like that that might be something that most actors and I imagine Tim wants that as well and we'll get to that but like when you saw that's the shape of that episode emerging was that appealing to you as a chance to like do something like that. Yes for sure I mean I grew up on Meg Ryan and Julia Roberts and all all all the kind of classic rom coms were the ones that I kind of turned to over and over again for weddings in the funeral like all of them I just love I love um that that forum so I was really excited to see that we you know as someone who's as you said like I have I have I have some stuff some work under my belt but I've never been cast as the romantic lead like ever you know maybe in a couple episodes of something on an obscure tv show that no one saw or whatever but I've never never never in this kind of like um I don't know in this visible of a place and so um I think Tim and I both were really excited that are like gangly muppet bodies were elected to do um this kind of bubble rom com episode that felt kind of like a departure from the show and had its own little microcosm of all the romantic tropes and and also just I don't know some some other stuff too you know I you know the divorce talk like I love and that's something that we don't really see in a lot of rom com so it wasn't just like quite on formula but there was some really classic rom comi um moments that I just I felt really excited by and I loved that we got to do our version of that as Tim and Justina Sasha and Morgan and um I got to go with my really close friend and do it in New York that was also amazing so yes it was like a gluttony riches and I felt so excited and it it lived up to all my expectations um we had a really great time doing it how many days did you guys do that I mean like you said it's it wasn't just that it was sort of out of character out of the norm you basically did a splinter you know and you were in New York City for a show that is so normally parked in LA we did a few days in LA for the interiors like the hotel was shot in LA and uh like some of the boutiques were in LA like the interior boutiques uh but then we did three days in New York right Tim yeah three but really the first day was just watch what happens live so all the exterior New York stuff was really over the course of two days um and our show like you know I was a big deal like uh to be able to find I think the time and the budget to go there and I mean I think the days that we shot in New York were ambitious and uh and just but luckily just everybody seemed very dialed in like uh and not just like Richard who was the Richard Shepherd who's the director of the episode but like all of the you know our DP uh Wes everybody just seemed very locked in on being able to make a very ambitious schedule happen you know what I mean just because I think everybody was was excited about it and Tim what was that like for you because you know I you are a versatile and talented performer but I would imagine you kind of felt similar that like the opportunity to be the romantic lead in something pitch to that level of delight must have been refreshing and I wonder if in any way it was also daunting because you may have wanted to do it but then here you are you having to do it. No it is like I'm like just eating and I have talked about this before that like it is there is like I've said this and I'm like you know it's a quote from someone that I cannot remember but uh I can't address this is dangerous totally canceled by the way but one good idea people would have rather do a sex would rather do a death scene than a sex scene because nobody knows what it's like to die but a lot of people know what it's like to have sex and so therefore they can be judgmental about it and I would get in my head sometimes in like, just as a performer. sometimes you'll be brushing your teeth and it's like, God, what if I brush my teeth weird? And then it, like most people do on screen. Yeah. Yeah. And but then there's this thing of like, God, what if I kiss weird and that is revealed, you know, like what is supposed to be like this really like, you know, this sort of climactic romantic moment. And then everybody is like, Oh, God. Oh, no, that's how we that's how he does it. Justine, should we tell him or should we let him continue to tell him? He had one boy was like, do we use tongue? And I was like, no, what? No. Well, did you feel he asked that about podcasts too? Like, yeah. I mean, I'm not to play off of this too much, Tim, but there was also like a moment where we have to go, we both have to like be standing and facing each other. And we have to say, uh, hi, hi, hi. Hey, hey, hey, and Tim was like so mortified at that moment. I think because he knew that he had done it when he was younger and it was like the most cringe possible thing that you could. I mean, I think both of us had this opinion, this opinion of the hey, hey, like I had guys say hey to me and I've had the same kind of no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no and I had the same kind of, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no I'd go, I collapsed like a house of fucking cards. I think there was a part of me that was like, well, they're going to cut this because they've seen me do this in rehearsal and in the table read, and it was awful. So clearly they're going to cut this, but then there we were on the high line at like four in the morning, and it was still there. And it was like that was the, and it definitely, it was a moment that I don't know that I'm proud of because I let 22-year-old worried about himself to play into a moment. I felt like as a seam partner, I felt the moment that people describe when they're working with them, they're talking to like an alcoholic, and they're like, and then they go dark. And there's like, Snake, it's like, it was like that. I was like, oh, like, Tim's gone. I was like, I'm getting that snake, I think, that people don't talk about. And then Justine in one of the earlier takes then actually told me after she was like, you were so gone that I felt like I had to do more. So she was like, hey, like trying to put too much juice on it. But this, hey, with this, this does go back to like, yeah, there were things that, like, yeah, definitely made you nervous. But again, it was, I tried my best not to like run from the opportunity to think like, all right, well, building these moments is a part of the job. Like, how do we, how do we find our way to a moment like that? You know, you mostly got there, Tim. You know, you mostly got there. Except for that one. This is the, except for that one point where I absolutely didn't. I think I mostly got there. Every other moment mostly contains that what you just said. It's just a nicer way to say it, you know, it just wasn't 100%. But really it's something to grow on. No, but I do, I found this episode. I mean, first of all, I should have led with that. I mean, it's a delightful episode. It's a high point for this series. But one of the things that I really appreciate about it is that if you're doing an episode like that, if you're doing a full rom com fantasy, there are rules. Like, you have to find ways to, to be original and to surprise within it. But it's like a, like a three minute pop song, you got to play the hits and you have to provide certain things. And I wonder if there is excitement in that, but then also pressure because you have to conform to either your expectations or you know, people are watching it with their own. Like, just to use an example, like, I was delighted at the end with the crossing with the pillow and the blanket because I don't think this is a brag to say I knew that you would be behind the door of the third time. But yet to play it where you're looking, you're leaning in and looking forward to it as opposed to like, of course, he's there. That's the balancing act. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we, I mean, we were both, we were both aware of it. We were both drawn to bite in the way that Tim described. We kind of got to, but the kiss thing, we were both like, please let us look hot. Please tell us if we don't let it get to the moment where we kiss and have people be like, yay, and sort of like, yeah, and it did work. I mean, I do feel like I can, I, as like an objective, I mean, I feel like I could stand away from it and be like, oh, I feel like I didn't, that wasn't totally embarrassing. And, and, and, and when we were shooting it, it felt exciting because we were shooting in on this one's floor of a hotel. And so like all the different camps of all the crew were in different parts of in different groups of the hotel. And when we kissed, uh, you could hear in the background like people being like, yeah, like cheering kind of down the hall. Um, it was, it was really fun. Also, we were worried about it too because we're friends. And I will say I was like, I was, when every time we rehearsed it, I would break into these giggle fits where I'd just be like, I mean, why are you being so weird? Why am I so weird about this? And then finally we get to the kiss and he kind of keeps on going, it keeps on going past the moment where we kiss and we go into the bed. I ended up having to cut us for, for Richard because I was like, I was spending way too much time on this bed after this kiss. And I'm like, with my brother on the bed, I was like, we're good. We got it. And, um, and I was thinking about it afterwards. I was like, why did I feel so weird about this? Why was I such a little baby about this? And I, and I realized it was because Tim was like putting serious like, I don't know, he's putting me on the back foot with some like actual game. And that's something that like the guy who's truly like my brother is making me feel kind of giddy and, I don't know, turn on. In this scene, mustard on it, that's good. And everything he said since then about sex or throwing mustard on anything has completely turned off any part of that feeling that I add. Yeah. Trust me, it was back to normal 15 minutes later. We're with her being so annoyed with me. Like her little brother doing it. She's like, oh, God. There was, I think, there was also like, I think a little bit of a pressure of like knowing, well, holy shit, if that moment doesn't work, then all of the lead-up of this episode, all of the lead-up of the season. And then certainly all of the lead-up of this particular episode doesn't work. But I think one of the great things about Richard who directed it was like, he was very committed to doing that in a oneer. And just like you said, that idea of like, you knew he was going to be there. But it makes me happy that that people are like, we knew he was going to be there on the third one. And it still got an emotional response. He was so committed to that oneer of going room to room that I think he chose that location because of it. And it allowed for the scene to build up. And like, I think that only helps along like that feeling that an audience is going to get from it. But no, I mean, like, it just, I don't know. I think both of us pretty proud of being able to help that along, you know? Yeah, just one last thing. Richard Shepard is an amazing. I feel like he's someone who steps into this show as a director. And he feels like he's a film. He's he's he's coming at it like a filmmaker. He's trying, he wants to he wants things to feel cinematic. He wants things to feel complete. He doesn't it doesn't feel like someone who's just stepping in for a week of a show, which is, um, he has like a very strong point of view. And so I felt very trusting of this process also knowing those going to be with him. I mean, he wanted a rehearse. He wanted to talk about things. He wrote us both before the episode. He was really there's he just has this fire that really wants things to be great. And it's really nice to be in the hands of someone that you can feel wants something to be great. It's so he is a great director. And I, whenever his name comes up, I always tell people to go see the Matador, which I think is a really underappreciated movie that he directed with Pierce Brosnan. But um, you can, when you said something really interesting to him about the pressure of that moment because so much was depending on it people buying it. And it did make me think I was semi joking about you guys sort of gaming out the show to ultimately be about you as the stars. But they did create a situation like Aaron created a show in which they she basically can't break up the central character. And so all of the delicious twists and turns that can happen in a longer gestating romance kind of get kicked to you guys in terms of obstacles and steps forward and steps back. And it does seem like there are there's a lot of road ahead for these two characters potentially in the next season or a unit seasons to come. I hope so. Yeah, I hope so. I mean, it's certainly not solved. I think you could know you literally dropped her on the ground in the finale. Yeah, again, I'm gonna throw compliments adjusting all the time. Like her ability to like, not only have this like intense vulnerability, and like be able to play this sort of like truly like a ethereal romantic person. And then also be such like a gifted, gifted comedian, like a both physical and like dialogue based comedian. They're like the moment where she falls. And she leaves her arm up to be the last thing out of frame is brilliant. Like, anyway, I just wanted to derail everything by giving justine compilance. No, I think by the end of this, yeah, like the show, I don't want to speak for the writers, but it does seem like, yeah, like the idea of whether or not crit Noah and Joanne are gonna be together has been solved. And I like that the show still examines that even if you're together, relationships continue to grow and relationships change. And there is drama and interest in that. And and I like that also at the end of the season, you are, it isn't clear what the path forward is for Sasha for Morgan and Esther individually, much less as any sort of coupling that's happening there. I have two more very surface questions about the New York episode specifically, but I think you're onto something when you're complimenting justine. So let's just do one more round of that. Justine, I'm just curious about process and how you approach stuff because as as we've alluded to, like you have been given in the course of the show, some of the more ridiculous things to say do and believe. And yet at every moment, there is an honesty and a humanity to it that is really breathtaking and allows us to like enjoy season three and when the mask drops a little bit and by mask, I mean the red light mask that you're wearing in one scene. But you know, I I know there's like, there's the basic answer as an actor of like, you know, you play the truth of the character, but I'm wondering about your way into this character in particular so that you are never judging, even if the audience sometimes may may be judging. Thank you guys, both of you guys. I feel like this person or Morgan qualities of her do exist in me. I mean, Tim will tell you, I am like, I think the cast decided that I'm the least like my character, but also that there is this kind of cryotic will whirlwind like nuts part of me that I feel Morgan has that I have fun tapping into. It's like the part of me that I kind of tried to like shove butt deep down under other things as I've tried to evolve as a person. So there's there's a part of me that just loves tapping into the parts of myself that I know are there and that I don't really lean into as a person because they're absurd and because they're embarrassing and because they're a little bit chaotic and out of control. But it allows me not to judge them because they exist in me. Like you said, I mean, I guess that's kind of just more expansive way of saying what everybody says. But it's true. I do feel like there's there are parts of Morgan that exist in me that I have fun a fun time leaning into. I think that the writing is very clear. I feel like I understand from the way that Erin writes Morgan. I see I feel very clearly who she is. I also have done a lot of dipping into the way that those two banter on their podcast as sisters and kind of finding that rapport. But yeah, I don't know. I just from the beginning, I was like, well, this is fun. Why not just lean into the fun and the absurdity? And if you can go far with that people, on succession, I kind of learned. I learned a trust in the directors and the trust in the writers to just go for it. And then if I was like, there was one point where I remember Mark Milo, I was like, go for it. Go for it. Just go big. Go big. And I went big and he was like, and bring it back. And we bring it back. I don't know who you were talking to when you said go big. But that's like a fun game that I have with myself now is like, how far can you kind of take it and just trusting that people pull you back if it's too much and that there's like fun stuff to mine on the edge of the line where it becomes like stupid or unbelievable or not really good anymore or not authentic. And that there's actually more rope there than a lot of people think there is. And Morgan is so absurd that I just have fun going there with her. And this year I felt really lucky that I got to go to a different place, which was what's underneath that and the other parts of her that I feel like even the writers, I think maybe sometimes shy away from because they're like the natural instinct is to go for the fun with this character. And this dynamic between Sasha and Morgan, I think like elicited something different that was kind of undec- like they couldn't be ignored. And I was so excited that there was like this huge kind of like shift of the dial that shows that there's something way more, you know, even on the boardwalk when they're talking about her past and her embarrassment around her ex-relationship and all the way through episode eight. There was just so much different stuff than I've ever gotten with this character. And I felt really excited to be able to show, but to be able to show a different side of her, I guess, yeah. I love that. And I just was working not very particularly directly but with Mark Milod on Harry Potter. And I know that like he's incredibly gifted at getting good performances out of the kids, because he makes them like run, jump up and down and scream and shout and get out all the energy and then immediately say action. And I wonder if you learned that from you on succession. I wonder if there's like a direct. Honestly, not no, probably not, no. That's really funny. It's possible. I've got the same disposition as in 11-year-old. It's tools feel about relevance. I can handle magic wizard like this. Special boy like this. Yeah, he's the best. He's the best. All of them were the best. It was such a great training ground also watching other watching Matthew McFaden and the things that he was doing. There was just a fearlessness of doing things that were just insane and absurd and god, it's so nice to be around actors that are unafraid of throwing shit out there and then and then having people around them that you can trust to kind of manipulate and maneuver and help like guide the shit, you know. Yeah, Tim, I feel like this is something you guys, I'm sure you've talked about this at length, but you both had incredible experiences working on legendary HBO shows, which is I'm not trying to apples and orange the two experiences, but they are fortunate in the sense that you're working with people in a very specific like aesthetic with a very specific aesthetic and a sense of freedom and possibility and exploration that now you can bring and I think that you can sort of see that reflected in the ways that your performances have surprised, you know, and outgrown even the original conceptions of the characters. I do think that even though the processes of the two shows are very different, like obviously like, you know, Armano had this rehearsal process that we don't have and like, you know, that was it was an incredible thing, but I do think that one of the things that I learned from it was the idea of even if you don't have specifically in a production the time to do that, ripping it apart and putting it all back together and thinking about it from eight different angles and bringing ideas and trying something and even if even if it might fail and it might not be funny or you suggest something and they're like, oh, that's the absolute, yeah, great idea for some other show that isn't this one, that that the amount of times that we were able to do that I think has informed everything else moving forward. I think also just in my own confidence of thinking that while I'm not going to like put a hammer down that like my own suggestion or my own voice is a part of this process. It might not be the most important one, but it should be and it is a part of the process to be able to say this one bumps against me a little bit and I think here's the reason why or I had an idea and sometimes I'll like after a table read, I'll even like go over to Janie and pitch a joke for another scene just because I was like, I don't know, this might work and it might be funny. I do think that even though the shows are very different, everything that I learned from that has helped in every other job moving forward. I do have one last question about the New York episode and we were just discussing how the tropes of romcoms are celebrated and expected and sometimes they bigger belief like it can be slightly implausible, but I do need to drill down on the idea that two people, particularly ones such as Tim of a certain age, could have a romantic night after multiple Manhattan's and big bowls of cutchiopepe. I just like that, I did want to just sort of drill down on that and wonder if anyone brought that up or if like, you know, did you walk on the high lines to like kind of work off the carbs? It's just, that was my one real note. I've got to say Tim as someone who has not had a romantic evening with Tim, but has had a long evening with him. I can speak to that. Multiple multiple drinks where I'm watching him and I'm like, when are you going to tank? He is kind of the little engine that could where it just goes on and on to the point where I'm like, you've actually got to go to bed. Like it's time for you to stop talking. I literally have two other friends in my bed and our blankets are up to our noses and we're saying time to go to bed Tim and he'll just be like, let's keep going, let's keep getting away. Like his endurance as old as he is. Let's be honest, can't also the father of twins. Like it's amazing that this guy can go as hard to see, can't as long as he can. God bless. God bless. God bless. The next morning, after the night that we talked about, I had to wake him up to get on our flight and he was in his underwear still. I'm not happy. I think we get on on the street and I was like, dude, you still smell like wine. You need to take a long nap. So he knows how to do it when he's like, I guess, I mean, it's not an option. It's not much like the character I can basically only do it when I'm in New York City. That's the thing. Whenever you land at JFK, you're like, oh, I'm 20 years younger than I actually am. That's right. Yeah, it's like calories don't count in airplanes and alcohol doesn't count in my head. I'm the opposite. Tim knows like the minute I get to JFK, I'm like, I'm in bed by 7 p. I mean, I'm in bed by 7 p.m. I'm like, this is my moment to sleep. I've been, I've been with a two-year-old, like I'm going to bed for the whole time. That sounds like a dream. That's right. I'm in New York right now. And frankly, I'm, I'm, I'm dozing off. Like I love talking to you guys. But like, there was one day where Tim came over with like four other friends to watch a football game. And I was behind them in the bed asleep by like, what would you say, Tim? 630. And they were respected in her, in her hotel room, all just like having old-fashioned and watching a football game. And she had fallen, she had put on weathering heights on her laptop. And within five minutes was dead asleep. Like we closed the door gently behind her. This is Queen Shit. Okay. So let's wrap up on the, I mean, I will also, we can, we can, we can tease season four. We can do any promotional business that our friends and Netflix would like us to do. But there's a really pressing issue that I've saved. And I really wanted to really wanted to bring it up with Justine here. Recently, Tim was a guest on the Jimmy Kimmel show, you know, which congratulations. It's wonderful. The clip that they clipped from this was Tim beginning a story by saying, well, Jimmy, my wife and I love to entertain. And we love to have people over for dinner. And let me just tell you, this was news to me and some other members of Tim's more extended Los Angeles social circle. So I'd like to know, Justine, if you have been the recipient of this largest, or if we can appropriately roast him for telling tales out of school in order to get clicks and laughs. I'm going to invite us to just have a one time for dinner. One time, one time, you don't even go there. There is one time I came over for crudite midday, but that was the only time that I've been invited for dinner. And then he did have a birthday party with a party event that was like quite extensive. I got invited to Tim's house to meet him at the door with his dog so we could walk, you know, so I feel like I didn't get the invite into the house. So this was a risky story to tell Tim was and look, how has the blowback been? The blowback has been a severe and widespread. Good. And deserved and Andy, we are going to rectify that. I would love for you to come over to the house for dinner. And I would have asked that whether or not I appreciate that. I have to check my schedule. Does Andy know about your watch, your watch club? Oh, about the Tuesday movie night. Yeah, he is that he entertains a good group of bros to watch obscure. Yeah, I think Tim knows me well enough to know that that's going to be a thank you so much. Thank you. I just having crudite alone and I'm in bed at 630 on a Tuesday. So that's actually respectful that I'm not a part of that. That's another side of Tim. That's the big picture guest side of Tim that I'm okay. Okay. Well, I'm glad we take I'm glad we figured that out. I am going to get both of you guys over to the house with your significant others. And possibly we all do it together. Like the three couples. Maybe we mix it all together. Wow. Okay, this is all this is my agenda on all podcast interviews. By the way, it's just dinner invites. It's classic. You guys have been renewed for season 4. It's very exciting. Where are you in the process? And how exciting is it to know that not only will you get to continue to tell the story, but you'll get to continue to tell the story within like an easy commute from your homes? Oh, God. It is really. I had my first job away from home this year. Like away from LA this year. And it's it is just invaluable that we get to drive truly. My drive is 12 minutes. It is unbelievable. I'm so lucky. I feel like on top of that, we have Kristen Bell kind of manning the ship of work done quite early. Like this woman wants to be home when we're kids to bed. And so everyone's kind of like at their homes by 7 p.m. Most nights. It's a dream. It's a dream. It's it's kind of you can't don't you don't you think Tim, it doesn't get better than that. I mean, it's incredible. I think, you know, fortunately and unfortunately most of my experiences up until this point, I guess the last three seasons of eep were shot in LA, but a lot of stuff you have. Sorry. So considering the people's like your first job. I've had to leave town a lot. I've had to be town a lot and weighing the two against one another. Yeah, boo fucking who weighing the two against one another. Yes, I will absolutely air on the side of shooting close to home. I also think that there's like the the beautiful thing of that like the crews here are the best in the world. And and this is no shot at other cities, but this is this is the town where everybody moved to to do this because they're great at it. And I love that the crews here are incredible. And so to not only have us be able to work close to home but be able to have crews were close to home. And then there is that other thing of like I don't love it with people. Let's just say crews work because it's not like they move crews to other cities that often. I mean, like they get to work like you talk to them. They're like they don't have jobs in between season. Like it's they're so yeah, it's so nice to be like, Oh, yeah, our crews get to the job. And then there's this other thing of that it frustrates me sometimes when I hear people who might be able to put their thumb on the scale complaining about Los Angeles. It's like, Oh, my favorite restaurant close. And it's like, I don't know. You're the one that sent all the work to a different country. So if you want the restaurants to stay open, the crew has to be able to eat there. Like that's a big part of the ecosystem out here. So I just I think there are so many incredible things about it. And even beyond just like working close to home. Working with Kristen and Adam and Justin and Jackie like like the ensemble is very is incredible. And the idea of being able to jump back into scenes with those guys is it's like I'm really looking forward to it. Have you been invited into the writers room yet to make your case for the season? Not yet. No, they're open and they've been working for a couple of months, I think, but it's getting close. You're not going to have us in this year. Maybe this is the year that they've had enough. Yeah, quite possibly at least one of you. And I think we all know which one I think you might be wrong about which one you think it is. That's good. Good to be surprised. I cannot thank you both enough. Congratulations on this season and on the success of the show. Wonderful to have you, Justin. Totally fine to have you, Tim. Thank you, Andrew. We'll have you again soon, but congratulations. Thanks for joining me.